132 responses to “Poll: Do You Support The Bailout Bill?”

  1. Sherman Okst

    There is solace though, they will be as broke as everyone else soon enough.

    This is the ONLY non-recession/non-depression that I have seen so much happening: Job losses, foreclosures, people killing themselves over loosing everything, states like California that can’t pay its debt on debt, depression era bailouts. Yet, ask an economist if we are in a recession and he will say no.

    No small wonder why we are where we are today!

    PS this is good viewing if you live in California. Go to the 1:03:00 point… http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2878262919007839264

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  2. Joe

    What is the most disgusting is the fact that citibank is now suing Wells Fargo and Wachovia for the right to spend your money, Wells Fargo should be given preferential treatment given the fact that they are doing it with their own money like any business would.

    I think this is a bona-fide sign that this a complete hatchet job by our congress. Roughly half knowing who this benefits directly and the others too stupid to do anything otherwise.

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  3. Jose Spenceros

    Wow. Yeah $2,000,000,000 a day is what we borrow to operate the gov. I can’t beleive how many times I had to hit my 0 button. That just blows my mind.

    The problem with mutual funds is that they are locked in to only making money when the market rises, which is to say, only about 50% of the time. They are fossils. If you’re looking for free investment advice, look at my writing yesterday, second paragraph. Check the results today of the stocks I mentioned, you might be surprised. Please don’t put my words in stone, nor think I am gloating. I really don’t want to see dow at 8k. We’ll probably get a short term rally tomorrow and maybe even build a base here, but with earnings season upon us, and the shorting rule reinstatement scheduled for oct 17th–I just think these factors among others will combine to effect a lower market in the near future. I think Xmas will be very sad for retailers. But who knows? The damn rules keep changing every day.

    Gotta just align youself with what is. And then play the percentages!

    Peace out!

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  4. Sherman Okst

    Hello Jose:

    I think you are right about propping up our elders.

    I had heard, and read 1.8-2.4 billion. That figure comes from a friend of mine who is a lisc. stock broker. I posted that fact in blind faith, so far he hasn’t been off a penny on his facts.

    I did ask him and I will let you know what he says.

    Take care

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  5. Marci

    I keep thinking about Frank (former poster who lost $100,000). I hear that the stock market continues to plunge. What should a retired person do re: his stocks~~~sell at a low price and get out, or wait??? I can understand that waiting is the right thing for the younger peole to do, or it always was???

    What should a retiree do?? Any answers?? This money is in mutual finds and is used to live on.

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  6. Jose Spenceros

    “Congress left the barn doors open for LEGAL immigration. That stresses every resource we have.”

    Sherman, I think that this part of their plan though. I think the immigration, whether legal or not, is an attempt to shore up a younger population base from which to tax. And the gov might like to incorporate (tax) them into the system to pay for the 70 million baby boomers that are “entitled” to their benefits.

    So it’s really a $4-5B daily deficit? I beleive you, but also wondering who is admitting to that. Where might I find that info. anyway?

    And if we can’t borrow the money anymore, then you are right. We will print it. And print it.

    So we have some serious issues to deal with the funding of Social Security, healthcare (medicare, prescriptions,ect), pensions (retirement-much of in the stock market), real estate bubble, war/tensions in Middle East, national budget deficit, and our trade imbalance. Please remind me as I’m sure I forgot other issues.

    But c’mon guys, lighten up. Everything’s gonna be great. Please excuse me while I add a nip of hooch to my Honeycombs. {pour} That’s it, juuuust enough, ya know?


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  7. Sherman Okst

    I’m just now getting into how this plan works. Each of us owe http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2008/09/26/how-much-the-bailout-will-cost-you/ about $17,000.00 to 10 times that depending on your bracket.

    So if I understand this bill? The banks get the cash, from the government and we pay the government back 17k – 175k each. The banks get the houses the took from people who couldn’t pay and we get toxic debt which I’m being told is going to be worth something.


    Sounds like freedom to me. I guess I work for the banks but I don’t get a paycheck.

    Thank you Congress and Senate – may I have another please!

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  8. EMC

    Hi Kathy ( Katherine Allen) and all,

    “Vote Them Out” #2

    Good for you, Kathy, that you have been and are getting rid of encumbants who have damaged us so long with an anti-encumbant program. Keep it up.

    There are thee things I notice about these Ron Paul messages:
    1.Just about everyone is against the “Bail Out” and

    2. We are all in agreement that most Members of Congress have failed us by voting for the “Bail Out”

    3. Ron Paul is our favorite choice for President ( as a ‘write in’)…which sadly will do very little in a pragmatic way.

    However, practicality must exist in what we do,too.

    It’s the Congress that has the power to pass these damaging Bills, like the “Bailout.” So we have to focus on getting these people out of office and other good ones in. That will help at the local level where the power really is.

    The whole House of Representatives is up for re-election in Novemeber. Let’s all vote out the ones who supported this phoney “Bail Out.” That is wee our power lies at this junction.

    So once again, I appeal to all to “Vote Out” the culprits who are damaging us beyond belief. It is “Ee” who must vote, not Ron Paul. He has done his job and is still doing it.

    If you agree with this line of thinking, please say so at the top or bottom of your e-mail message, so we all can get a feel of your views and intended action, if any.
    Thanks and best, Mike

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  9. Chuck The Great

    this bail out bill is just another way to “f” the american people out of more freedoms in the future!

    this guy paulson is obviously going to start distributing the $700 billion to his chums over at aig, sacs and the rest. i’m sure a decent chunk of that $700 billion will find it’s way into a (shell) corporations included in that bill that belongs to george W. bush. i find it sad and sickening that the american people of today have become so passive of the injustices that SOME of the members of congress have dragged them through as they have profitted from these lobbiests. i don’t see how the people that caused all of this are rewarded with $700 billion dollars instead of prosecuted. …i really don’t.
    i can’t understand how these people are notbeing investigated.
    it makes me sick!
    another thing that made me sick was how mccain & obama opposed this the day before they went to the white house, and then started pulling for it a day after. with same threatening tone as bush did a few days earlier.
    i will not vote for either of them.
    i had planned to vote for ron paul since last october, and that’s who will get my vote. even if i have to write his name in myself.
    i say everyone who is tired of all this screwing of the american people do the same.

    thank you very much.

    p.s.: why couln’t the solution have been, giving every american $2 million dollars each so they could pay off their homes and debt and start making purchases to help the economy (being that we’re the one’ who have to pay this $700 back)?
    this bill is not going to help he economy! america will be in the same hole if not deeper in 6 months (or less)!

    go to the link below and download the mp3 for a radio show called
    “For The Record” on AIG and findout how they got us in this mess!
    once you get to the site,
    click on and download:
    “F-531a.mp3″ 18-Sep-2008 21:02 33.2M
    “F-531b.mp3″ 19-Sep-2008 05:55 33.2M
    go there now : http://spitfirelist.com/archives/

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  10. Sherman Okst

    Jose: Forgot to answer all your question.

    I don’t know about much about the famous Kondratieff cycle and I should the only thing I read was here http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_08/chapman100508.html

    I think it will be hyper-inflationary like 20’s Germany. The 700 billion, and more to come, are for foreigners holding our debt not to unload dollars and to keep buying Treasuries. The US (drug addict) requires 4-5 billion a day from foreigners to operate. Unfunded social programs like SS and Medicare are staring at $50+ trillion on the horizon. The money for these incredible payouts will not be earned (taxes), it will be printed (monetized). It’s inflate or die. It’s print or risk social unrest and a collapsing system.

    We should get a hold of Rudy and tell him it isn’t Drill baby drill it is Print Baby Print!!!!

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  11. Katherine Allen

    Reply to Mike:I think voting them out is a fine idea. I’ve been working on the anti-encumbant idea the last two elections and plan to do the same this year. Somehow they keep getting back in tho. I can’t under stand why we’re so apathetic about this. These politicians do not have our best interests in mind. Fifteen or twenty years is too long (definitely long enough). There are others who would do a great job if ever given the chance.

    Nothing will ever change with the same people in office. You can’t keep doing the same thing and expect a different outcome.

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  12. Sherman Okst


    Ben’s speech on the depression and the gold standard

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  13. Sherman Okst

    Hello Matt:



    Don’t know if they will replace Ben but if they don’t his speeches indicate to me that he attributes gold as an inhibiter of or to creating $$$ out of thin air so with him I don’t see the above as a factor.

    Get a replacement batter who realizes that the Constitution only mentions 2 crimes treason an COUNTERFEITING and all bets are off.

    I think the ONLY solution is telling our representatives to wake the F^&K up.

    Now that is a sad solution because they can’t find the Constitution from a hole in the all and they don’t even realize that they bailed out a symptom. How can they fix a problem when they don’t even know what the problem is.

    Worse. If we can’t identify the last depression’s causes how can we avoid this one or yet another one?????

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  14. Matthew

    Indeed, Sherman, Indeed….

    I hate to sound like part of the problem, but just to cover my own ass, I’ve been buying gold for the last few years, what money that would of been put into savings accounts, CD’s, Bonds, T notes, or what have you has all gone to the purchase of gold.

    NOT that gold is safe just like anything else there is risk involved. But if my bank fails? what does that mean to me? Do I lose all of my money, I don’t know but I do remember reading a fella’s post about how he’s 100,000 lighter in his 401k. I just
    figured gold should really only appreciate, so I won’t be at as much risk.


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  15. Sherman Okst

    “A democratic society requires a stable and effectively functioning economy. I trust that we and our successors at the Federal Reserve will be important contributors to that end.”
    ~ Alan Greenspan, 1996

    To what end? I would ask.

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  16. Marci

    I see the democrats becoming so irate on debate boards whenever Obama’s name is mentioned in reference to Terrorists. I have many unanswered questions.

    Is there a reason for us to be concerned?

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  17. Sherman Okst

    Hello Jose:


    I don’t know if deflation is here already. Physical gold is hard to acquire and its price is going down, distilleries are at record lows and its prices are going down.

    Will gold explode to the moon or fall to the core of the Earth?

    Don’t know, but I like your advice that cash is king and the stock market is crap – or could become crap.

    I think we are in a depression/severe recession and that we just have been relying on cooked books to tell us otherwise.

    Not to sound like a cook but I my question is: If there were a financial catastrophe how would that effect the elections? Time wise not outcome wise.

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  18. Jose Spenceros

    Hey Sherman & All,

    If you have money in this stock market, I would tread very carefully. I have lost my share of money in the stock market, and have also made some, so I have some experience here.

    Frank, Given your stated loss and seemingly low tolerance for volatility, (and given I don’t know your specifics) i might recommend putting approx. 1/2 of your portfolio into a 6 month cd at 3-4%, or maybe just park it in a money market for now. There’s so much volatility, election stuff, and ???, Plus, we are in a bear market, so you can short it with reverse EFT’s like DXD or the like, but I personally would play the percentages And just wait this thing out a bit. Might I also suggest some exposure to gold or silver, perhaps a liquid form like an ETF (exchange-traded-fund) like GLD. There are also foreign utility stocks that pay nice dividends. But be careful, and know that cash is King. Personally, I wouldn’t worry about missing the next stock market rally. LOL Who know’s what’ll happen. The market decided to go lower Friday but it took until hours after the bailout announcement. So that might an indication. As has been stated here many times now, NOONE knows what is going to happen tomorrow. The only thing in concrete is volitility. Just don’t be surprised to see the Dow at 8,000 or less sooner than later. Right now is a good time to preserve capital, not be a hero. I’m no CFP or great prognosticator (far from it actually), so this is just purely my speculation. I just hate to hear of someone feeling ripped off when they invest in a speculative market. Too often, the market makes fool of us all. The best we can do is play the percentages. Good luck.

    Sherman, I must agree that noone really wants to admit what we all see, especially those that govern us. Oh well. Let me throw you a change-up: What do you think about a Kondratieff wave-like effect regarding the worldwide situation in relation to the autumn/winter phase? How do you see deflation playing out with respect to the oncoming inflation? I wonder if gold/silver will decline further yet, or has it bottomed already? I wonder if deflation can grab hold of these commodities stocks again? Or is it time for gold and silver stocks to finally take an inverse relationship to the equity markets? I just have this funny feeling about it. They showed relative strength on Friday when the market was down, so I wonder. Your book sounds interesting. As you know, I think there’s a supply of unfilled intellectual space for it.

    Katherine, very interesting point about the phone calls, cause I wondered how those statistics changed in one day when everyone I spoke with was changing their mind the other way, as days went by without a bailout and the world did not end as promised.

    Mike is correct. It’s not just our right, it’s OUR DUTY to vote the fools out. Also, as long as private money is allowed to influence politians, we as individuals will lose. Yes, tax dollars solely should fund elections.

    I swear I always plan on sitting down for just a sec to make a quick point, then I sit down here and the ideas won’t stop coming in. But this is a truly historic time. America is no longer the democratic nor the capitalist society we strived to become. This is not the America that many good men sacrificed for. And it is not the country that our Constitution so clearly outlines. Godspeed to all.

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  19. Sherman Okst

    Hello Hal:

    “…saving the U.S. hourly wageworker from the ill effects of illegal labor is a moot point.”

    You might want to scroll to the 9 minute mark of this video. Congress, God bless them! In the 1960’s opened a little loophole in our immigration law. I think that is why we hear sooooo much about illegal immigrants. Fact of the matter is: Yes it [illegal immigration] is a problem but it is like the pet door in the barn. Congress left the barn doors open for LEGAL immigration. That stresses every resource we have.


    Take care!

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  20. Hal Roberts

    The Globlist stock market bail out has some long arm they reach all the way to the U.K. Spain, Italy and so on it messed up there markets too they all had a hand in it so why don’t they all chip in and pay there fair share of this market bail out.

    Oh by the way saving the U.S. hourly wageworker from the ill effects of illegal labor is a moot point.
    Seems our income and quality of life is not an issue to them. I guess the present Globalist Administration feel’s like they could use a few more wage slaves to round out there retirement.

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  21. Sherman Okst

    Hell Frank:

    Hey don’t sweat it, the next batch is even better.

    According to Palin: Oboma is “palling around” with an ex-terrorist who blew up government property in the 60’s.

    And, running against him we got a guy who is a reverse ace (yup an ace has 5 enemy kills, a reverse ace like this guy crashed like 5 of the governments planes – himself.) NO ENEMY NEEDED!!!

    Grab a lampshade, it is going to be one hell of a party.

    And don’t worry about the mess – our kids and their kids will pick up.

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  22. EMC

    Hi all,
    How to “vote” them out

    It is obvious that the whole house of Representatives is up for re-election and 1/3 of the Senate.

    My (FL} House Rep (DEM) voted for the Bailout so I am not going to vote for him. One of my two Senators did so, too. He is a Republican. So next tme he’s up for re-election I won’t vote for him, either.

    My sister told me that her 2 Senators and House Rep (AR) all voted for the Bail Out. She won’t vote for any of them and actually called their offices to tell them just that. Good for her.
    This is a policy that can work…

    What do you think?

    Regards, Mike

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  23. Marci

    Frank~~~God bless you and God bless us all!!!!

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  24. Frank

    My retirement 401K is now worth over $100,000 less than it did a few weeks ago. I worked for 30 years and saved diligently for that money. Very smart people like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon and George Bush Senior and our current George Bush, as well as the honorable congress and senate over the years screwed me with obiously the best intentions of their heart. Meodiocrity trully has taken over. What truly hurts is that my friends helped them screw me by telling me that the reason they didn’t vote for Ron Paul was because they didn’t want to waste their votes. I feel like I’m surrounded by sheep. God help our country. They don’t want to waste a vote and I have to go back to work to eat. I feel so depressed and I am so angry.

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  25. Thomas V

    hell no why do we have to pay for the other big BS in hight places

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  26. MaryAnne

    It crazy to think, you can get a loan to pay a loan with no income to pay the loan. Ask Arnold Gov of California, he is now asking for congress to bail out his 5 year balloon loan with another loan. Our kids in our schools don’t even have there own school books, no P.E., some no music or classes for vocational training. Why is now the country doing the same as California. How about Jobs and resetting the morgage loans to the value of the homes with 4.5 or 5.0 percent rates to keep their homes. And I live in Temecula, where your job is 70 to 90 miles away. Foreclosure started because they couldn’t pay gas, mortage and food. So, now they insure 250,000 dollars in the bank. People like me don’t have 250K, but a have Husband laid off from retail industry (furniture) and can’t get a job because he is over quailified and made to much money. I can’t refiance the house because its upside down, not that I can’t make the payments… Now how stupid is that???? Bail out! Bail out Me!!!

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  27. Sherman Okst

    Hello Katherine:

    Ugh, with all due respect, I think it has been going on for almost 100 years not 20, we got bought off in 1913, 1933 and then 1971.

    Personally I think the most egregious of the three was 1913 because we tossed the Constitution out the window.

    From 1665 until WWI there were only about 4 BRIEF periods of inflation, all during wars. Other than those few wars there was no inflation at all! So for 250 years everything worked fine. People didn’t have to gamble in the stock market to try to keep up with inflation because save for 4 wars there was no inflation.

    In 1913 The Federal Reserve was created.

    In 1933 FDR created money out of thin air and ordered US citizens to surrender their gold for these paper bills that they printed. He did pay them 20 bucks an ounce for gold. After he stuffed the US vaults with all the gold he then set the value of gold to 35 bucks an ounce.

    Nice touch, I’m certain all those that lost 15 bucks felt even better then. (Back then cars sold for 600 bucks so 15 bucks was a LOT of money.)

    The US was then on a quasi gold system whereby one (“one” as in a a foreign country not a US citizen) could give the US a buck (well 35 bucks) and get an ounce of gold for it. (Well actually the US gave gold coins not bars whenever possible because the coin’s face value was less than the melt value due to impurities.)

    At the time the Country was on the Brenton Woods Accord. The glitch was that this accord didn’t prevent the US from printing money out of thin air, via the Fed and Fractional Reserve Banking. The Fed is a private bank and NOT part of the government. Vietnam was, like Iraq and Afghanistan VERY expensive. Even with taxes (unlike now with tax cuts.) And they printed a but load of money. When countries called us on the dollar, the US started running out of gold. Nixon took us off the quasi gold standard.

    Since then we have been printing money out of thin air and it isn’t backed to anything – but faith and we don’t have a lot of that these days.

    THAT is when we got bought off by “these people” and that is how long this has been going on for. Things have to compound and go exponential before the $hit hits the fan and now we are seeing a lot of hockey stick charts. Unemployment, inflation and M3 (money printing), foreclosures, business closures….

    Our dollar is like Ron Paul says, it is like Monopoly money now.

    Our Constitution is specific about gold and silver coin as a tender in payment of debts, as was Thomas Jefferson and what he said about the creation of money and inflation and the people controlling it.

    The sad part, is that it is my guess is that like Paul says, no one in Congress knows the Constitution. W was saying we need new laws for the 21st century. I suppose if we don’t go back to the Constitution they will need lots and lots of new laws. I listen to the news, to Congress and I wonder if any of them realize that the Fed is not federal or that Congress in 1913 legalized counterfeiting.

    Legalized counterfeiting. That, in my book is the crime of the century and we are going to be left holding the kahuna of all bags. Of course, don’t fret, our kids and grandkids will be here to help hold the kahuna of all bags. The burden won’t be on us alone.

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  28. Katherine Allen


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  29. Katherine Allen

    When are we going to wake up and stop being so apathetic andSTOP RE-ELECTING THESE PEOPLE? I’VE BEEN DOING AN ANTI-INCUMBANT


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  30. Katherine Allen

    When the media began reporting that calls to the senate/house was
    changing in favor of the bail out it was discovered that several of these companies affected assigned several of their employees to sit at the phones and make repeated calls to senate/house in favor of the bailout. The senate/house phone lines were so busy they weren’t asking what district or who their representatives were.

    Of course our idiot politicians fell for it especially after “pork”
    was added. They do love spending our money. The wooden arrows was a project of my Gordon Smith from Oregon (sorry every one – I never voted for him).

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  31. Sherman Okst

    Hello Jose:

    Just to clarify- I was saying that the elected officials (save for a few like Dr. Paul) are ignorantly blissful. Well you put it nicer than I could have said it.

    I think most American’s know how bad things are – heck we all have to eat and drive to work and put clothes on our kids.

    Enron Cook Book Authors:

    Kennedy – removed workers from unemployment reports

    L. B. Johnson – put Social Security payments you and I make as income and removed that SS money which they spend from the debt column

    Richard “Break in Dick” Nixon – Removed gas and food from inflation figures (COME ON YOU HAVE TO LAUGH NOT ONLY FILES WERE REMOVED ON THIS GUYS WATCH)

    Bill “I didn’t have sex with that woman” Clinton – put Hedonics (Greek for the pleasure of) (COME ON YOU HAVE TO LAUGH AT THE IRONY)into the inflation formula, basically if you buy a computer for 1 grand today in the store the BLS says it sold for say 600 bucks because it is has more memory and a faster processor. So even though the price went up 400 bucks they count it as going down 400 bucks. He also enacted substitution (pretty funny if you think of that famous cigar that was substituted for….) so if we buy steak and it goes up in price sooo much that we can buy it anymore they replace it with…. say cat food. (Yummy). Well they may not use cat food – today anyway it may be Ballpark Franks.

    So when you hear inflation is contained that is a lie. Yet the liar knows no better. Even the best economist use BLS (which should be renamed to BS) inflation rates/statistics.

    When you do your own math you will see (I pulled these receipts this morning) that inflation is up there in the stratosphere:

    2001 gas 1.27 2008 gas 3.89 Increase of 306%
    2001 half and half 1.14 2008 2.48 Increase of 151%
    2001 Cigarettes 2.74 2008 Increase of 144%

    Enron cookbooks work great until we all can afford just food and gas, the only things not counted by the BLS. Then we see unemployment, foreclosures, bank failures – and well a depression.

    Because they say inflation is contained and GDP to debt is a good ratio it all works until the rubber hits the road. We can say we aren’t in a recession/depression when using cooked books but banks failing, abundant foreclosures, prime delinquency rates surpassing subprime rates, record high unemployment and – well reality indicate otherwise.

    There is a lot more to this. Yeah, it gets even better and I don’t even see Paul talking about this stuff.

    The OPEC member nations use Enron math for their “proven” reserves. The more reserves the more they can pump/sell.

    Then there is population – think China ans SUV’s.

    Well, I’d write more here but I need to get back to the book I’m writing. Take care.

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  32. Deidre Lorenz

    I agree with the prior posting. Are elected officials are idiots, and they are crooks, too! Why can’t our elected officials bail out the American people who are losing their homes. The status quo is just not working anymore. We need more honest elected officials like Ron Paul. This so called “bailout” is so flawed and unconstituional. Our country is still a great country becuase of the American people, but we are such a financial crisis. Whoever gets elected in November can’t fixed the crisis that we’re in right now. What a mess we’re in!

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  33. Jose Spenceros

    Hey Sherman,

    You might be right about the gen pub and the ignorantly blissful. I just wish I could join them. But I have a daughter and her future to consider. And I don’t like the idea of soup lines or bread lines. And just for the record, you can count me out for gang showers, too. So we work hard to ensure a safe if not prosperous future and try to pass on the limited synthysis to others. I think that is all we can do, isn’t it?

    I just think the Feds know enough about the truth to hide the M3. Providing it will, at least, provide some transparency. It just cracks me up that they claim the elimination was due to a lack of funding. They say that info. was too expensive to report. Unreal.

    Did they really eliminate the gas from the CPI calculations?

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  34. Sherman Okst

    Hello Jose:

    Good post! The only thing I don’t agree with is asking the government to tell us the truth.

    I really don’t think they are lying to us because they don’t know the truth.

    Which is worse? I don’t know but personally I’d rather be lied to because it implies the official voting laws actually know their collective a$$ from their elbow.

    Except for a few like Ron Paul, until the truth bites them in the a$$/pocket book – they won’t know it. And even then I’d imagine that the vast majority of them will wonder what really bit them.

    Case in point, we tossing 1.8+++trillion at a symptom, we are not fixing the underlying problem. Also, tossing good money after bad money is well, not fixing the problem. It is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of, other than printing money out of thin air.

    I think we have elected a nation of idiots.

    On interest rate cuts: I think all the Central Banks around the globe will cut rates. Prices are falling – my hunch is because a vast majority are tapped and to get prices up again they need the ability to amass even more debt. Oh boy!

    California can’t sell bonds to keep the government open. California sets a lot of trends. What will happen if the Fed. Govt. can’t sell bonds to China? We borrow about 2 billion a day.

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  35. J. K.  Amerling

    Just wanted to thank Ron Paul for the forum. I’m just sorry I didn’t learn about R.P. before all of this “bailout mess” because I would have voted for him. I think the media did a nice job of marginalizing his legitimacy and silencing his messages. But the truth will prevail. Thanks again, Ron.

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