132 responses to “Poll: Do You Support The Bailout Bill?”

  1. Katherine Allen

    We have been ignoring the main problem for what is wrong with our Country. We change Presidents every four years. We should change the House and Senate as often but, we don’t. Many are never voted out though they should be. I think we need to begin DEMANDING from our House and Senate that they pass laws that make it mandatory that no one will serve more than eight years. The ones who have already served eight years will retire. Also, after serving eight years, they will not be entitled to life long pension payments. They cannot run for neither House nor Senate sooner than another eight years have passed. These people are supposed to be serving us. They are not. They ignore us.

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  2. claude

    NO,NO, NO! Have the majority of our representative and senators ever the US Constitution?

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  3. jwarnken

    I don’t support any thing but our US Constitutional rights. Our government got so far in debt that I hope all hell breaks loose and we go back to the US Constitution, that our elected official take an oath to support. We need to fall flat on our face, to make our government pull their heads out of the tarter sauce. We need to not only audit the Federal Reserve but the whole Federal Government.
    We need to get back to basics and how did Bush get away with being a dictator. Many people think we have a two party dictatorship. Maybe they can’t remember the oath of office they take or have CRS “Can’t Remember Shit”. I’ve lived a good life and am a true patriot ready to die to regain my constitutional rights. I say “Live Free Or Die”.


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  4. cwxwwwxwwxwx

    well, hi admin adn people nice forum indeed. how’s life? hope it’s introduce branch ;)

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  5. EMC

    Hi All,

    I have always voted as an Independent. This year I registered as a GOP because it is the only way my vote could be counted in the Florida Primaries since Florida is a closed state in primaries…you vote only or the candidates in the designation you are registered with…

    This year is a real battle..so here are my views…

    The fact that Ron Paul is not running in 48 States for the Presidency, and was put on the Ballot in Louisiana and Montana,unsolicited by grass roots supporters, speaks volumes and leaves a lot of people a bit disillusioned. Ron Paul did not run…period…Yes, he endorsed Chuck Baldwin in a luke warm manner but that,too, leaves a lot to be desired,IMHO.

    Rather than throw away a vote, and call it voting “your conscience”, isn’t it better to find the candidate that is the “less bad” and vote for him, just to keep out the person who may destroy our “Democracy” by nationalizing everything via a controlled society? Have you already noticed the “Obama Two Step Shuffle” as he now widens his views on Iraq, National health and taxes? Feature this. A vote for a third party candidate, other than for Ron Paul had he run, is truly merely a protest vote and not meant to change anything. It’s like a child wanting a candy bar/ice-cream/hamburger, etc., and not getting his way. What does he/she do? He/she throws a tantrum….sometimes.

    Isn’t that what many are doing? Voters and non-voters? The alernative is to try to change a Party. The GOP will either win by a very slim margin or get trounced soundly. No party can “lose its way”, betray its fundamental principles and still stay in power. What happen to the “Reaganites?” Where have they gone?

    Under George Bush I & II, the GOP has lost its way. It has become a party of war mongers, picking on little countries, while sidling away from the “Big Boys.” On top of that, the GOP has lost its conservative principles, straying from the Constitution, and has become a party trying to “Out Democrat” the Democrats by spending big money [which we don't have], waging war, getting involved in people’s lives at every turn ( instead of hands of), keeping the Federal Reserve, IRS, FDA, USA, supporting Codex Alimentarius, and all the other Agencies that have hurt and are hurting Americans.

    Under Bush II, The GOP has even increased Big Governement growth at every turn, plunged us into unimaginable debt, and left our borders defenseless, in favor of NAFTA, the UN…Now the “Rescue Plan” is in effect and is designed to bring other Central Banks to our shores by getting the American taxpayers to pay foreign holders of Subprime paper, and even allow foreign scientists in other countries to “share” in Tax payers’ funding of their scientific “shared” research! [Thanks to Presidents Clinton and G.W. Bush.]

    Ron Paul, for his part, has not left the Republican Party and is up for re-election of his Congressional seat. That should be a hint to all. If he doesn’t want to run for the Presidency and chooses to stay in Congress as a Republican, shouldn’t we understand the message?

    In our two party system, whether we like it ot not, there is power and money. No third party has ever won recently, ( Lincoln was the last, with about 40% of the vote, back in 1860)… It’s a different ballgame today with the huge amount of money it now takes for a candidate to stay in the race.We had better figure out wich way to go. Little guys have no hope.

    Ron Paul did give us hope but he refused to run after he was probably told to quit. [Now that is only my speculation. Any news on this?] He could have stayed in the race, seated or not, and could have tried to maintain his pledged delegates all the way to the convention. That would have made a resounding statement and maybe would have led to a compromise on the party platform…????

    While I agee with the the Constitutional principles , I think it is better to work at the grass roots level, as GOP people, and take control of the local GOP chapters where possible. This may lead to a true “revolution” within the GOP and get it back on track, or, at least, get some conservative thinking back into the party. It’s called balance…

    This election will see either a clear victory for the Democrats, in which case the GOP will have to re-think their strategy, or a squeaky win for the GOP, in which case they will still have to re-think their strategy.

    Ron Paul will win his sat by a landslide ( 70%+) and that along with a potential GOP defeat at the top of the ticket, or just a whisker of a win, will send out a clear message. We are then in for some big trouble either way, because if the Democrats win, they will “revolutionize” everything to the left, but if they lose, they will feel threatened, betrayed and cheated. That is how politics is and we better get back to reality and work within a party framework.

    Is it so hard to outsmart the “Old Guard” in the GOP, especially when their policies have wrecked the Party and America? I think not because a lot of them will want new leadership after this election. Ron Paul is a spiritual leader now and has to lead the way in finding a person who is ready, willing and able to work within the framework of the GOP, with Constitutional views. It back to the drawing board.

    If the GOP win, where does Ron Paul fit in? He is definiteley the seasoned GOP voice of sanity…

    Hats of to all Third Party candidates for their effort, but except for voicing a platform that resembles the Conservative element of the GOP as it used to be and should be now, where are they going, except to protest? It is better to work from within, rather than to look in from without. Fingers crossed!

    Ciao and God Bless all whose heart is in the right place, EMC

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  6. Mike C

    Hi All,
    Vote out the ones who voted for this “Bail Out.”
    They did not listen to the overwhelming majority of Americans who flooded their offices with a “Unified Message to Vote “No” to the “Bailout,” aptly called a “Rescue Plan” by these nefarious tainted individuals…. The whole USA heard it, but not Congress…Is it any wonder that their approval rating is under 10%, and that’s being generous!

    You can find your Congressman’s voting record on this issue by clicking on: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml/

    What makes these “Congresspeople” think they can spend all kinds of money foolishly, against the wishes of their constituents, the voters who put them in office? Aren’t the voters suppose to be the bosses?

    If you agree, then act like any boss who would want to save his business…Fire the x@#?&*x#@…(pardon my French)…culprits. Your ratings and business will go up!

    The old adage, “If you play, you pay,” holds true here.
    The time has come to make these worthless individuals pack their bags, go home, and try to find honest employment.

    Just give them a “Second and Final Chance” to hear your voice loud and clear. Do it at the ballot box! After all, its your Constitutional Right to do so If you don’t act now, when will you ever act? “Do it for the kids’ and for ourselves!”

    Good luck and good voting…it may be our last chance to send the best repeat message ever…”Thanks, but ‘No’ Thanks. ”

    Ciao for now, Mike C

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  7. Sherman Okst

    Hello Jerry:

    Honestly, I think the depression we are entering into is the least of our problems – as is the assinine bailout that they tried.

    I believe they are just trying to keep things propped up for as long as they can.

    I wouldn’t worry about it (the bail out). I won’t work. It isn’t working. It didn’t work. That is why they are talking about more money and Brenton Woods II. Printing money is the problem not the cure and it only makes the crashes worse.

    It is hard to think of a crash worse than that of 1929!

    I don’t like it as much as you, but I’d take some time to watch http://www.ChrisMartenson.com/crashcourse watch #16 first. I’d be thinking what if rather than they shouldn’t have. I’d be thinking what things could be like and what you could do to make things go better for your family…

    As for freedom: “A democratic society requires a stable and effectively functioning economy. I trust that we and our successors at the Federal Reserve will be important contributors to that end.”

    – Alan Greenspan, 1996

    I think I know which end he was referring to :(

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  8. jerry Sherrill

    Sherman: I understand the way the gold standard works and how our economy functions on a day to day process. This is the same argue- ment my wife and I were having today before she left for work. I also know if we let this companies fail then it will damage our economy, but we as free people have to have a voice, the government will continue to rape and pillage if we don’t speak up and be heard!!

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  9. Sherman Okst

    Huh? Jerry, I think you misunderstood me.

    Your last post is a preach to the choir.

    Yah might want to read the link I sent you, I think it is your answer as to why they did what they did.

    Hint: It ISN’T about credit crisis’s (according to his own words — I would read it as the author bankrupted us and now the new guy has diagnosed the cure as the disease and is finishing us off.)

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  10. jerry Sherrill

    If my business gets in financial trouble the government is not going to bail me out and this is acceptable to me because if I, as a business owner partake in activity’s that are going to harm my business then I shouldn’t be running it in the first place!! So why again should we bail out business’s that continue to this? This makes no sense to me what so ever!! When you reward people for doing bad things they will continue to do bad things!! We as a country should not pay for stupid peoples mistakes!!! So Sherman, I do agree that we need big business, but we should not reward them (like we have AIG) for the stupid mistake’s they make!!

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  11. Marci

    Does Mr. Paul want to be president?

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  12. grover casey

    to get off subject for a moment I and many like me would like to write ron paul in as a presidential candidate , but we are unable to for the simple reason that ron has not registered as a write in candidate in california . it’s still not to late to do so ,PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO SO NOW , befor i am forced to throw away my vote on {Lester O Evil II}

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  13. Sherman Okst
  14. jerry Sherrill

    Why should the American people pay for big business mistakes? We shouldn’t! If we continue too bail out businesses like FannyMae and FreddieMac They will continue to do scrupulous activity like AIG has continued to do. The government should realize that when you give money away freely like they have been doing with no consequence, that big business will still continue to act like the have in the past, with no morels or conscience they will continue to spend and take advantage of the people and the system that the republican party has put in place. We should take care of the average person, because when the middle class does good the country does good. Why is this so hard to understand? If we continue down this road our country will not only be in recession, we will be in a depression. Let’s move forward not backwards!! This is why we should vote RON PAUL!!

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  15. Sherman Okst

    Hello Jose:

    Too funny! I could use a college degree, I barely made it out of HS.

    I’m reading up on the part of the bailout that involves the FDIC or the systemic risk exception to the FDIC.

    This is beyond scary. Senior debt and holding companies?????

    Buy junk bonds and the American people will guarantee them to be as safe as Treasuries.

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  16. Jose Spenceros

    Yes, I agree with you guys. You’ve nailed it.

    Sherman, Q1) Yep, I guess Barack already said as much, that we all need to learn to live within our means. The financial world is on a teeter-totter and now suicides are reportedly way up. So A little truth syrum at a time is all we can handle. I think people still think this “Bailout” is going to help them. Poor fools. Meanwhile, real interest rates have popped a quarter point or more HIGHER than last week. Q2) Yep, we got a margin call alright. And we PAID. Our country has failed to operate in a way that ensures it’s future existence, and–yes–it’s very apparent from abroad. That is who is exiting our markets, both equity and treasury. The dollar is going down and threatens to take our country with it. The big question is: Was it an accident?

    Regarding GDP: Sherman you know the math better than I, but what would it take to operate our government at a PE ratio of about 5? Bet your right. It might be well into the hundreds at these cooked levels.

    Interesting fact:
    You can actually get a college degree in Eugenics. Google this. Crazy?, or ingenious?

    Hey, here’s some good news. At least we’re not in a recession.

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  17. Joe

    In the early days our founding fathers dreaded the day that Wall Street, Banking and a Federal Reserve or (central banking system) and the federal government would be in such total wedded bliss. I think we have that system right now, and we are witnessing it reassess it’s wedding vows.

    No one authority should have the right to regulate the value of a countries currency. Those are cleary the properties of the laws of nature and demand, and the productivity of it’s people.

    A fiat currency system, and a regulatory system to control it with it’s owners basically controlling the productivity of this country by dictating the business it is engaged in, largely by using it’s clout to export the business they think we shouldn’t be engaged in for the price of labor and whose favors they are actively fulfilling…

    If the currency was sured up in some way by just a hint of being attached to some fixed asset, you would not care what happens on wall st.

    Basically all the laws and instruments we have currently work fine to correct the system, only problem is that they are enforced by pirates.

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  18. Katherine Allen

    Comment to Jose
    W is not as dumb as he seems. I think this whole bailout mess is
    his last big push (he’ll be out of office) to get Daddy Bush’s New World Order going. I’ve heard the new money is to be the Amero
    (that was for the North American union with Mex & Canada) Many if not most Americans still believe our Government wouldn’t sell us out. Well, it already has. If we don’t wake up and do something about it we’ll be like the European Union with the U.N. at our helm. And, we’ll be answering to the World Court…..not our own.

    Who wants to be ruled by the U.N., a totally impotent, incompetent body if anything is. They do nothing they’re supposed to be doing.
    They don’t keep the peace in Europe. I think we should get out of the U.N., WTO, and all the so-called Free Trade Agreements that has ruined this country.

    Obama has a bill, S.2433 which would force American taxpayers to pay $845 Billion in foreign aid over the next 13 years….$65B per year more than we’re already paying. This bill lays the ground work for a world government, owned and operated by the United Natins. He calls it his world poverty act. Others call it Senator Barack Obama’s Global TAx plan. I understand it’s already passed in the House and you can bet the Senate will vote on it as soon as he’s elected.

    I got this info from Center for Individual Freedom – http://www.CFIF.org

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  19. EMC

    Reply #3 EMC
    Hi Everyone,
    You are basically seeing only the tip of the iceberg. What really is going on,IMHO, is below the surface.
    1.This is all a hoax and is is staged.The Media , owned by the Power Elite is fanning the imaginary flames…and getting people all riled up..it’s called comfusion.
    2. The stock markets, domestic and global, will go up and down like a roller coaster, or yo-yo, to divert attention to what’s really happening.Remember the Stock Markets do not drive the American economy. They are useful for gambling…someone wins and someone loses…
    3. The fact remains that Congress has given the greenlight to the Federal Reserve Corporation that it will recieve US Taxpayers’ money to fund its programs worldwide on a recurring basis…..
    4. You already know that the Fed is a private company and is not beholden to Congress in anyway or to the American Public. Its ownership is secret but stock holders live on both sides of the Atlantic…
    5. The Fed is now buying up ownership in US Banks and finacial organizations with some of the 700 bilion dollars ( +$150 bio extra) voted by Congress…That means they write themselves a check and do whatever they want and we foot the bill…Is this Free Enterprise or Socialism…? To me it looks like Fascism at work…
    5. This is the first step that the Government is using to restore “American Financial Credibility” around the world and to send a message to all Foreign Central Banks that they will not lose money on the “worthless USA mortgages and derivatives bundled paper notes” sold to them…by Wall Sreet. All will be paid for by American tax money in this first allotment[ $700 bio] and the revolving door ones set to follow when ” The President or the Secretary of the Treasury go on TV and “cry wolf” and claim there is a real crisis. Then watch the stock market drop and then watch the selling and then the buying spree…roller coaster…It’s a canned act….which is also taking part simultaneously in Hong Kong, Japan, China ( not much news comming out of there), Indonesia, Italy, Germany , G.B., etc. Did you notice that these countries suddenly “caught the fever” and that their respective governments are claiming that their country’s banks need shoring up….They need cash and guess where it will come from?
    6. The Power Elite ( Rockefellers, Warburgs, Rothschilds, Morgans,DuPonts, VanDer Builds, etc) have made their move for a One World Government and they are trying to tie the Central Banks into one big cartel. It is easier to control people that way…I must hand it to them…it’s is a really Great Plan, but then one would expect nothing less since the best brains in the country work for them…
    7. This is not a conspiracy. A conspiracy is secretative and kept clandestined. This is neither. It is an “Open Book”, so easy to follow. Now motice the solutions that Central Banks around the world are recommeding.That is, they are all are buying into the equity of private companies ( banks) in their respective countries). Yes, they own shares as stockholders! Now that is Socialism….or is it Fascism?
    8. At present, President Bush and Co. are saying that they are going to bring all this mess to the attention of the G-7 people now meeting. It’s like saying” ” The wolves and lambs are the same.”
    9. If I am wrong, I apologize…but what if I am right?
    10. Where are Dr. Ron Paul and the other knights in shining armor?Can anything be done? Are we witessing the end of our system? Is a new policy in the making? Are the G-7 people any better or are they ,too, pawns of the Power Elite? Is the One One World Government already here or will it take a little more time? World Oil prices have fallen drastically…has the price of gasoline at the pump done so ,too? Have mortgage rates gone edown? Will there be a”Forgiveness Prgram for American Mortgage Holders in trouble? Will The McCain utterance of a Mortgage Rescue Plan see light?
    Hmmmm….I don’t know. Do you?

    Lastly, for what it’s worth, vote out any and all Congress People who have voted for the “Bailout”,oops,… “Rescue Plan.” That will sting a bit….

    Comments welcome…God bless, EMC

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  20. Sherman Okst

    Hello Jose:

    I think you are right about the credit problem. But I have 2 questions for you:

    Lately these 2 questions are making me ill.

    Question one: Collectively as a nation, are we waking up like a subprime borrower did when they realized that their salary wasn’t enough to keep them in their home?

    Question two: Worse, are our creditors realizing this first?

    Conservative estimates say that each day we borrow about two billion dollars from our creditors just to keep our government operating.

    Our primary creditors are the Middle East and China.

    I ask these two questions because I just realized that our loan application might be as cooked as Enron’s books were.

    If that isn’t bad enough, think about this: Economist and politicians gauge the health of our economy on these cooked numbers and we as investors rely on their expertise.

    What if our debt to earnings weren’t quite as good as our application claimed they were? GDP in 2007 was listed at 13.5 trillion and our liabilities were listed that year as 8.7 trillion. We are telling ourselves and our creditors that we owe 64% of what we make.

    Not too bad. That says that we make more than we spend.

    But what if GDP was cooked? What if GDP was, say 40% less than advertised because the government used a ridicules inflation number of say 1% when calculating GDP? What if they said that we, because we owned our own home, that the rent we would have paid counted towards GDP?

    That would mean we earned 8.1 trillion and our debt was 8.7 trillion. So now instead of spending 64% of what we make, we actually spend about 7% more than we make.

    What if we hid some of our liabilities, say just a few trillion, nothing to obscene, just 42 trillion? What if our debt was really 53 trillion as of 2007? I ask this because we don’t count Social Security, Medicare and miscellaneous things in our debt.

    That would mean we make 8.1 trillion and we owe 53 trillion or 654% more than we make.

    Worse, what if we are borrowing (or printing money out of thin air) each day to service our debt because it keeps going up exponentially?

    In other words, are we so flat broke that we must borrow trillions to keep this thing propped up. Is this the real credit crisis?

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  21. Marci

    “Might they introduce the new currency? Something stinks here, so I wonder what they are cooking up.”

    What would the new currency be? How would closing the stock market and introducing this currency affect the stock market, ie: our mutual fund’s retirement money??

    Thanks, Jose and others!!

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  22. Jose Spenceros

    Sherman, your right on on the fiat currency. But this is indeed a credit problem when you must have credit to survive. I don’t like to admit when I’m broke either. I guess “being broke” just means I’m having a “credit crisis.” lol When the problem is mislabled we don’t have to shoulder nor attribute any blame.

    At first glance I would say that it’s only a credit problem. But what if we want(need desparately) more loans? It’s a credibility and a cooperation issue too. To further complicate the problem, our creditors are from Asia, Europe, and the Middle East. We are hardly in a position to negotiate. Bringing democracy to them seems noble enough, so long as it doesn’t create enemies faster than we can kill them. And what if relations with China or Russia deteriorate further? If China and the oil countries decide to get rid of their dollars (which they started doing–look no further that wall street) we will be in more trouble. And OPEC and the Saudis want to abandon the dollar which, of course, is what Iraq tried to do. Thier mistake. Now, Iran is considering abandoning the dollar for their oil. So don’t be surprised if we “democratise” them next. We need them to continue to take our dollars for oil and plastics so that we can dilute them by printing more money and pay them less for the products in the end. Or, at least, that seems like the plan. It appears that we’re going to try to inflate our way out of this. Same goes for the housing market. Create inflation so that home values will increase faster and fill in the “bubble” created by speculative investing. This might work in a sense, but keep in mind that inflation takes ALL prices higher. This won’t be any good either, because the fact that you have a higher value home won’t help you afford a loaf of bread for $25, or milk for $75 a gallon. Hello?!?

    The stock market has crashed. An estimated $8.4 trillion dollars have dissapeared from equity markets this fall alone. I feel badly for those invested in a 401k or 403b since for the most part they just rode this ride all the way down from the dow being at 14k. Don’ get cocky now, the bottom could well be at 5k, the next few days will tell this out. As long as the Fed is determined to massage the markets, we’ll decline. Notice how the dow went down 100 points during W’s 5 minute speech yesterday. And now they want to buy equities to prop up the stock market too. IMHO, it won’t work, it never works. Just as soon as they buy a stock, the “market makers” will rip it away, just like yesterday. Duh? Don’t take my word for it, just look at the dow chart yesterday. You won’t find another day’s chart like it except the financial stocks. Cooincedence? And, with taxpayer’s money!!!! What arrogance. Free markets make fools of us all. Ultimately, taxpayers will pay the bill for thier unbeleivable arrogance.

    Well, now many peoples retirement plans are on hold. That burns my ass because it’s exactly those hard workers, savers, that we need more of. After these market losses, we have a complete disincentive to save (invest) more for our retirement futures :[ Too bad, cause that’s what got us here. Spending more, saving less.

    I also fear what is coming around the corner. Putting a potential October surprise on the back-burner for now, I am currently concerned about this G7 Meeting and the subsequent G60 or whatever. It’s a three day weekend and I’ve heard rumors that the market will be closed next week. Might they introduce the new currency? Something stinks here, so I wonder what they are cooking up.

    I really hate to oversimplify these issues, but I must say that W is the main reason the issues we have today are so bad. 8 years of ignorance is no excuse to socialize our mistakes. Oh, and I forgot, we already did that by selling them worthless paper and we promise to pay it back with more printed paper that becomes less valuable every day. Can you say “the end a great nation?”

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  23. David Fernandez

    For the past 2 years the Ben Bernanke and Henry Paulsen have been telling us the economy had been doing fine. Yet a “crisis” such as this doesn’t just happen over night. I find it difficult to trust the word of these irresponsible men, especially when the President says is good idea, and we all know how trust worthy he is. Case in point, this 700 billion dollar bail out is a reward to those rich con men for poor business practices and we have no guarentee this wont happen again.

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  24. Sherman Okst

    As a patriotic American citizen, and as an ex-airline captain I am saddened to say that I am having trouble finding our democracy and our nation on my chart. WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!!!!!!


    This is what happens when you don’t use your chart (THE CONSTITUTION) to navigate. Money, will be coined of silver and gold. It will not be created out of thin air that is counterfeiting and there are only 2 crimes listed by name in the Constitution, treason and counterfeiting.

    Private banks (THE FED) and Fractional Reserve Banking is what put us on an approach that I know is not a safe approach to be on. Worse, we are attributing our problem to a credit problem. The problem is a money problem. You can’t use Monopoly money and stay free. Show me one Fiat currency that has lasted or show me one Fiat currency where what is happening today hasn’t happened and I will shut up.

    305 million of us need to wake up and explain it to Congress like we explain it to our 5 year olds so they can change the law.

    Ron Paul is great but he needs to be turning blue explaining this to the rest of the class up on the hill.

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  25. Marci

    Thanks for sharing, Sherman. We do appreciate it. I realize that there are no specific answers. We have to do what we can to try to outsmart, or at least control this situation, with whatever possibilities remain, I guess. Prayer will help too!

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  26. tracy

    i dont beleive in this bail out, what about the american people, who is gonna bail us out? thats what i would like to know.people around my area can’t afford there bills, house payments or car payments let alone buying groceries for their families. the cost of living keeps going up ,but the pay for the workers around here is staying the same or people have to take a cut in pay. who is gonna bail these people out? the government should have just given the money to the people who are coincendently going to have to pay for this disaster, so why not let the people who have to pay for this get the money to bring back our economy. it only makes sense, but then again the government is only thinking about there own pockets and not really giving a crap about the american people which they say they depend on for helping out and they have our best interest at heart. well again the government is lying again to their people. no matter what they say on the news and their debates they lie to us every day, cuz no matter what happens they never help us out. it’s so great to be in the united states where the land of the free costs you more than money.

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