99 responses to “How to fix America”

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  3. WE THE PEOPLE

    How to fix America.
    1)Bring jobs back home.
    2)Slap a tariff on imported goods as incentive to bring jobs back home.
    3)End the American empire by abandoning all foreign bases and cutting off all foreign aid.
    4)Take all money completely out of politics. No more corporate ownership of politicians.
    5)End the insane idea that a corporation is actually a citizen with human rights.Reinstate corporate charters.
    6)Make Social Security funds off limits for the government.
    7)Take “for profit” out of the health care system.
    These are all doable and would straighten out most of our problems.
    Neglect the top idea(#1) and the rest really don’t matter anyway. Like putting a new suit on a skeleton.

    That’s a strat.

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  4. Dave

    My ideas in no particular order…

    1. Secure our borders. No one gets in unless they go through the proper channels. Anyone violating this is considered a criminal and is fined without a trial and kicked back to where they came from.

    2. Identify all illegal’s currently in the country, fine them heavily and then export them.

    3. Heavily fine all companies or individuals knowingly employing illegals.

    4. Require all legal immigrants to be able to read, speak and write English.

    5. Provide financial incentives to American citizens to have children. Doing this will ensure a strong workforce in the future which is not dependant on illegal’s.

    6. Enforce trade regulations to ensure all transactions with foreign countries is on a one-to-one basis. Tariff all imports not meeting this requirement.

    7. Halt all foreign aid if the country receiving that aid is voting against us in the UN or if it is proven that the aid is being misused or if the aid is being ineffectual.

    8. Abolish all unions.

    9. Abolish all lobbies.

    10. Halt all financial aid to Israel. This would force them to seek peace with their neighbors.

    11. Legalize marijuana as long as it is consumed privately.

    12. Anyone on Death Row should immediately be executed.

    13. Require American companies to limit the amount of foreign parts they buy to make their products.

    14. Demand that the US Government be run as a business seeking a favorable balance sheet.

    15. Provide incentives to find a realistic alternative fuel source other than foreign purchased oil.

    16. Draw a line in the sand regarding our current enemies. We’ll be your friends if you want to be friends. If you don’t like us, then leave us alone and we’ll leave you alone. If you get in our face, then you face nuclear destruction.

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    1. Stefan C. Kosikowski

      Dave,

      Steps one, two, and three show a profound lack of understanding of this issue. The cost of enforcing your plan is prohibitive, meaning there isn’t enough resources available to do so. This is beyond any moral arguments about borders, immigration, etc.

      If the policy is to restrict immigration, there will always be a demand for this illegal labor. The only effective way to counter illegal immigration is to effectively keep them out of the work force, then they won’t keep comming here because they are only comming here to work.

      Fines for employers are a sham, they can never work, for the employer does not pay these fines any more than the employer pays sales taxes, for both are passed on to consumers in the price!

      Instead, we must put illegal employers (those who hire an undocumented worker) in prison for doing so. This cost can not be passed on to customers, illegal employers will finally stop breaking the law, and without the opportunity of work, the flood gates will naturally close without spending all our budget doing insane chores like rounding up 20 to 40 million people.

      Get it?

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      1. Dave

        Stefan,

        For someone who pokes holes in my views, you really should first learn how to spell (comming??) and obtain a more pragmatic grasp of what ails America today. I never said my ideas should be implemented instantly although you seem to think that’s what I meant. These steps have been recognized as potential solutions for a long time and can only be sucessfully implemented in a structured manner spanning a few years, at most.

        Second, your views are those of a defeatist; specically your paragraphs 1 and 2. There are plenty of available resources both in money and manpower (if directed away from other wasteful programs) and there are no moral arguments when it comes to border security. If someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night, I view them as a criminal worthy of a bullet in the head…I don’t offer to put them up for the night and make them breakfast in the morning.

        I agree that there will always be a demand for “low cost” labor…not illegal labor as you put it. This is where my other ideas come into play where you seemingly failed to grasp the connections. The last time I checked prisons are not privately funded but are built and maintained by taxpayer derived money.

        As for the 20 to 40 million illegals currently in the country, most of the money they illegally earn doesn’t stay in the country beyond what is needed for food and shelter and taxes are certainly not generated from their labors which is why they need to be rounded up as quickly as possible and tossed back to where they came from. I fully agree that we need to cut off the root cause of the problem (i.e. employers hiring illegals) but we cannot afford to wait another 10 years for such a plan to play itself out. We must do something NOW.

        Now do you understand? Now do you “get it?” Stop being a defeatist and recognize we need to do something drastic…right now.

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        1. jaydesaibutler

          Dave,

          Unless you want to do the jobs that “illegal immigrants” do. BTW if you try to stop the illegals to work then who is going to do the work, you. Half of the Americans don’t even like to go to work and I’m pretty sure they don’t want to do jobs that immigrants do.

          Enough said…

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        2. jaydesaibutler

          Also might as well round you up and toss you back where you came from too. Since, 99% of “Americans” are not really full blooded Americans, unless you are Native American.

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  5. sunwukong

    Fix America

    1. Make issues not political parties the focus of American political culture. Make all campaign contributions from any source fully transparent. No amount of money, goods, or services should be off the record. Structure political debate so that the vital issues facing the nation and its future are openly debated and voted on. Government’s function should be to fix problems not feed its quest for unlimited power and resources.

    2. Fix voting. Open Source verifiable direct voting (eliminate Electoral College), make verification of eligibility to run a 2 year open hearing. (this would have eliminated the birth certificate controversy). Supreme Court judges should be elected to serve a 6 year term of office with impeachment for violating the constitution. Give all nations of the world who meet minimum human rights standards token (symbolic) votes for the election of the US president at the rate of one vote per 1 hundred thousand people. (This would give the nations of the world a public open citizen driven way to express their desires and hopes.)

    3. Eliminate the Presidential Pardon, or limit it to exclude own administration and prior administration.

    4. Eliminate competition crushing “Too Big to Fail” entities Periodic public review of Corporate Charters and ballot driven re certification. Make corporate enterprises show their commitment to constitutional principles and document how they are run. Make corporations democratic and employee owned, operated and governed. (I fear big business far more than a democratically elected, transparent “we the people” big government.)

    5. Audit the FED, then eliminate it. The government should print its own money based on a public and open process.

    6. Nationalize Banking and health care. Make insider trading a felony with no statute of limitations.

    7. Prosecute Traitors and Torturers. No statute of limitations or pardons for those accused of torture. US persons who torture or kidnap should not be protected.

    8. Eliminate DHS. Founded to cut thru the red tape it is just another layer of a big brother police state.

    9. Restructure Secret Service, FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA. Make it a felony for employees of these organizations to freelance or even invest. Eliminate insider trading by these employees. Sever all ties between these government agencies and business, banking and trade.

    10. Current drug laws are nothing more than a price support mechanism, decriminalize drug use, humanize the supply chain all the way back to the coca grower, make sure he gets at least 40% of the profits.

    11. Rewrite the constitution so that it is driven by a set of clear principles, which are spelled out, put human rights above corporate and economic rights. Respect human rights and private property but not at the expense of human dignity. Let each citizen choose to sign on to these principles or find somewhere else to live. No group or system of laws should be allowed to deny human rights or freedom of speech or association to other citizens. All visitors to the United States (including foreign diplomats) must agree to abide by the constitution. No favoritism or legal protection can be granted to any organization or individuals that infringes on our rights to openness in government and exercise of our human rights.

    12. Citizenship criteria must include adherence to the principles of the constitution, equality, inclusion, fairness, and respect for human rights.

    13. Separate church and state, not tax breaks, (no slavery, no inequality, no child abuse, no escape and evasion network for pedophiles). Strictly enforce “no law recognizing religion”. Religious organizations should be treated as “entertainment” and should be taxed and treated as such.

    14. Eliminate all direct action authorizations for intelligence, military and para-military organizations, and or any other organization or individual, “no one is above the law”.

    15. Make torture, kidnapping and renditions illegal.

    16. Cut military spending to 15 percent of current budget. Re structure the military to be able to respond to real world threats, give them the tools and skill sets needed to develop a positive image of the United States. End corporate and media driven propaganda of fear.

    17. Break up corporate mass media outlets. Enforce a policy that makes entertainment, music, theater and arts a citizens folk effort instead of breading a cycle of distraction and debt that have been forged into the chains of our slavery. Encourage media documentaries that identify domestic and international problems that need to be addressed and solved. Make an official “wikileaks” style tool available for all to rat out corruption in all institutions and at all levels. Make this a secure system that rides the internet and all items input are available to anyone anywhere. Enable citizen (even non citizen) participation in the process of exposing and eliminating fraud.

    18. Make it a felony and treasonable offense for any jurisdiction to even passively allow any money laundering, kidnapping, torture to occur within it jurisdiction.

    19. De-militarized Police departments. Make it a matter of public policy that citizens have a right and duty to carry arms in public at all times. Eliminate the arrogance of the police toward civil society. Develop and implement national standards for police recruitment, vetting and psychological testing. Create a level of trust and cooperation between the citizens and their law enforcement agencies. Ban all activities that limit the recording, photographing and monitoring of the activities of public officials. (Imagine the Rodney King arrest if the police knew that it was being filmed, those films were immediately posted on the internet all within range of hundreds of armed citizens.) (For citizens un-accustomed to this environment strap on a gun and walk around with a bunch of strangers who are also wearing guns, things become a lot more polite!)

    20. Shut down Wall Street. Unregulated gambling by multi-billionaire “above the law” corporations and individuals is a crime against humanity. End the reign of the “There is no god but the almighty dollar and Bernie Madoff is his prophet”, mentality that has corrupted our values. Build a sustainable economy that is based on zero population growth and care for our environment. Encourage rational development not just “bigger is better”. Our economy is measured around x-mass sales figures for junk we don’t want and can’t afford. Our value systems are built to crave for more and more and clearly we live on a planet with limited resources and there is no fleet of friendly aliens headed our way to take us to a new “garden of Eden”, who would want humans living on their block.

    21. Eliminate copyright laws. Everything should be free to share after 6 months. This would undercut the cult status of big name media that have distorted our values, culture, and ultimately our economy and national will.

    22. Change patent laws so that if a patent owner cannot implement his idea after a set time he must surrender a percentage of all profits to the public trust.

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  6. Will Hickey

    Everyone here has great points!

    I stumbled upon this blog when I was searching for a book my friend suggested.
    It is entitled, “How To Fix America”.

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    GREAT BOOK! Let me know what you think.

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  7. David

    Okay well here’s the fix, and its a simple one. No more F*cking around trying to treat the symptoms when we can simply kill the disease for good and eliminate all of the symptoms permanently in the process.

    TruthSeeker
    November 17, 2010 at 3:35 pm | Permalink | Reply

    David,

    Tell me how many times we said over and over that a person who makes a $100,000 a year is the equivalent of someone who only makes about $20,000 a year under this rotting system? WHY and HOW? How many times we explained WHY and HOW?

    Here it is again one more time:

    Between taxes and interest, about 4/5 of the income made is gone to the banks and to the bureaucrats who work for the banks and benefit most from this system of exploitation of the working class. What can you ask more of a citizen who makes a $100,000 a year? Is that person NOT working hard enough to survive? Is it his fault that he will never be wealthy? What is this garbage this “Citizen” guy is talking about putting the blame on the people instead of the banks and presenting the problem as it is a result of the natural order and destiny of the human family to struggle in order to survive? God that reminds me of the Oligarchy’s reasoning in the medieval times that the poor should learn how to take advantage of their poverty! This guy is clearly working against the people and for the banks. Why is he protecting the usury system which is against our laws, our belief systems, and our decent nature for the benefit of the banks and against the people? How could he continue to claim that he is only protecting the liberty of the individuals in our nation? How could that be when the lenders of money (the money changers) are less than 1% of the population and the borrowers of the money are the vast majority of the population over 99% of the population? Apparently he must be one of the 1% or working for them to feel the sympathy for the trivial minority in our society, yet fail to have any sympathy for 99% majority! Otherwise, he must be a total IDIOT that does not know that he is cutting his nose to spite his face!

    What we are after is defending the interest of the 99% of the population, NOT the interest of the 1% Oligarchy which is the laziest, least productive segment of our society, yet this IDIOT is talking about hard work and earning it as the way to go! He should be preaching his work ethics to the 1% who never works one day in their life, yet they own more than 40% of the total wealth on this planet! Isn’t that outrageous? We are not talking about Bill Gates here; we are talking about the Rothschilds, Lehman Brothers, the Rockefellers, and the total parasitic society that lives off money, NOT productivity. The society that never produces one single good or service to the population. The only commodity they know of is MONEY!

    Now because we are defending the interest of the 99% of our people, we are communists and our model is totalitarian, “Citizen” continues to propagate! We want to concentrate the power in the hands of the government, not the private sector! Let’s examine what the hell is that:

    A government? We are not talking about the current government…the treasonous one. We are talking about a government that is of the people…by the people… and for the people. Then YES we want to concentrate the power in the hands of that government…simple and clear!

    Private hands? What is that supposed to mean? If we are talking about the private Oligarchy less than 1% of the population, then YES again we are against the private sector, but if we are talking about the 99% of the population as being the private sector which in this case is represented by the good government, then YES we are for both the government and the private sector because they mean the same! I hate it when evil propagandists mix things up at the definitions level that people lose sense of what they are talking about. This is exactly what this sly liar “Citizen” guy has been doing: mixing definitions up, twisting facts, and making blatant lies!

    Let’s make CLEAR that we are working for the interest of 99% of the population. Call that whatever the hell you want to call it. Call it the government because IT IS when the government works for the people, or call it the private sector, because IT IS when the good government protects its interest—the interest of the private sector which constitutes the vast majority of the population—99%.

    So really we are not going to be trapped in semantics here. This is an evil word game that has been used against us like the “terrorist” propaganda game. Who is the terrorist? It is the one who terrorizes others regardless of who the subject and the object are. Right? If the subject happens to be them, then they are the terrorists; if the subject happens to be us, then we are the terrorists. There are no hinges to revolve the definition. We can not have it both ways in our interest. This is the kind of logic “Citizen” wants us to follow. Twist, lie, and confuse. BEWARE!

    David
    November 17th, 2010 at 7:33 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Hi TS;

    Yes, this is fantastic, you’ve said it all, again my friend.

    The bottom line here is that the only thing in history which has ever been demonstrated to work, and actually fuel a rich and productive economy instead of collapsing it, is real, state issued and sanctioned currency, which is issued and managed in order to permit the exchange of the useful benefits that the population creates, without any involvement of Banks and their theft and fraud in the process. Franklin did it successfully because there were no banks then. Jackson tried it with hard currencies, but did not kill all the banks and they destroyed that effort in a very short time. Lincoln tried it with state issued and sanctioned currency, but again, he didn’t kill off the private banks and they used the real money as reserves to print the same fraudulent bank notes we are forced to use as a means of trade today and collapsed the public currency. Hitler did this, got rid of the bankers, and again it worked, and within a space of 5 years he built a bankrupt country where people were literally starving in the streets into a major power that almost conquered the world despite the fact that they were outnumbered 30 : 1. Unfortunately his intent was not that of the previous.

    The bottom line is that nothing can work with Banks and an economy will either exist to fuel trade and production or to feed this parasitic infection where all trade and production must eventually be consumed by theft and fraud. It’s that simple.

    In terms of Citizen’s tactic, yes, we do currently have an incredibly evil political establishment in America, which has been established simply and only in the service of the worlds banking system and exists at the expense and to the detriment of the American population and operates in direct violation of the United States Constitution and in violation of the fundamental tenets on which this country is founded. It has also been for a very long time. It matters not whether a person votes democrat or republican, as Banks select the candidates for any major position of power, manipulate the media, fund campaigns thereby manipulating electoral process so that one of their candidates will always win and their interests will be served.

    Citizens tactic is exactly identical to the tactic which has been used by the Banking system in every other country in the world and he’s attempting to shift blame for all of the problems that the population has experienced onto government, in the hopes of distracting them from the root cause which established such government in the first place, which are his precious Banks. His hope is to keep people voting and voting and voting some more, in the hopes of effecting change for their benefit while all this time his Banks are progressively consuming ever more of the populations wealth and prosperity, concurrent with the elected representatives put in power by the banks establishing ever more power and restricting ever more freedom in order to secure the absolute power and ownership of their banks over the population in order to prevent them from taking back what has been stolen from them once they reach the point where they have nothing left to steal. In each and every country in the world which has experienced the establishment of some form of Communist or Socialist police state, this has worked as well, as the population had absolutely no clue what the source of their problems was until it was too late to do something about it, and were simply spinning their wheels voting for different candidates given them to vote for by the same culprits and accomplishing nothing. When people realize that they aren’t going to accomplish anything with any of the existing political parties, then the banks create and introduce a new party for them to vote for in order to keep them wasting more time trying to affect change by vote with no avail. Currently we have the Tea Party, who’s preaching fiscal responsibility, paying down the debt created by these Banks as the solution to our economic crises, but how is this to happen and how is any form of economy to function when the only means of trade we have is debt created by banks ?. Where once in a long while the population actually does manage to circumvent the manipulation and elect a candidate who would act in their interests, the banks simply have that candidate assassinated before he can accomplish anything as was the case with Kennedy, Garfield, Lincoln, and would have been with Jackson had the pistol not misfired, and again replace then with one of their own choosing. Your vote means nothing, and if any change to our benefit is going to be accomplished, it will be accomplished first by threat, and then if necessary by force. Democracy in America as with every other country in the world is simply another system of fraud put in place by Banks in order to try to legitimize their enslavement of the population.

    We do have a unique situation in America today though, in that pretty much the entire population has actually figured out the source of their problems while they still have within their hands the means to do something about it. They are putting the blame where it belongs, they are understanding who put the current political establishment in power in order to abrogate their freedoms and consume their wealth, they value their freedoms and would rather die defending them than live without them, they are angry as hell, the evils have become intolerable and they are still the most well armed population in the entire world and can still present a threat and act with force if necessary as well. There is no more greater nor formidable enemy in the entire world, than We the People, of the United States of America, and now that the sleeping giant is awake and realizes who its enemies are, and the Banks and their current political establishment are living in a state of complete, total and absolute terror of the American Population, evidenced by the fact that they are currently trying to restore some form of production to placate them with this quantitative easing in order to try and placate them before the people can get themselves organized to destroy them completely and buy themselves more time in order to abrogate more freedoms in order to try and secure their power permanently. Their problem at this point is that so little wealth remains in the hands of the population that the entire thing will come crashing down again in about one year, which is not enough time for them to secure this power. This prediction comes from a good friend of mine who i’ve learned is generally correct in terms of things like this, and he’s predicting complete and total collapse by the end of 2011. Even if the banks are successful in placating the population at this point, the effect will only last one year and when they end up in worse circumstances at the end of that year than they are today, they will still remember what they had made up their minds to do today as well and just do it then instead of now. Hopefully they will simply continue on their course now so that they wont have to endure that end result in another years time, but we will see, and in whatever interim there is, its up to those like us to just keep pouring more gasoline on the fire and promoting ever more thought and understanding toward this action.

    In terms of the solution, the American population understands the power which is the source of their problems now and if they can be organized to act collectively in their own interests and destroy that power first, then the democratic process will revert to control of the population as well, as without Banks and their power to manipulate it, it simply can do nothing other. I think most of them also realize by now that their vote accomplishes nothing, and are looking for other means to act as well. Many are not even hoping for a peaceful solution anymore but they want this to come to force of arms so that they can kill the bankers and the political establishment in their service with their bare hands, and as i stated in a previous post, neither the bankers nor the politicians in their service are foolish enough to count on the support of the United States military in their defense against their own fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, friends and countrymen.

    Our hope of resolving this peacefully rests in first presenting a threat to those in the current political establishment, in order to magnify their fear of the American People to the extent where they will turn their backs on the banking system which put them in power, destroy the banking system before we have to destroy both it and them, and finally fulfill their obligations to the constitution and to us as a population and restore our economy and prosperity, as simply and easily as they could have done at any time and all along. This is the purpose of our Declaration and Demand, to present this threat, and if it can be circulated and acted upon by the population in sufficient quantity then i think the result can and will be our entire political establishment realizing that they have to act in our interests in order to avoid us doing this ourselves and executing them for treason in the process. The Banks can kill a President, they can kill a few senators, but if this can create enough fear that the majority of both the Senate and Congress can realize what they need to do and act in order to avoid the inevitable consequences to themselves, they will and there is absolutely nothing that the Banks can do to save themselves. We are offering them a way out and a way to save themselves, giving them our demands of what they need to do in order to accomplish this and offering forgiveness of past treason if they will.

    Short of this, then it comes down to the use of force to back up the threat presented. Short of any alternative, it will come down to force of arms at some point, and at some point soon, and i think enough of the population understands the source of their problems well enough that if this is the solution which is required, there is no way in hell that they will tolerate the existence of any form of Banking system, so the problem will be solved. Alternate to this, would be organizing a mass economic revolt where the majority of the population would simply stop paying all Bank payments and taxes at the same time which would be equally effective in collapsing the current system of theft and fraud, as there is no possible way it can be maintained without the participation of the victims. Again the trick would be trying to organize everyone to do the same thing at the same time, but i came up with a possible means to do so some time ago which would allow progressively more to participate in the effort, progressively creating ever more turmoil within the Banking system, without actually putting their property at risk until there were enough participating to shut them down for good.

    In any event, as long as people simply realize what is necessary in order to destroy the power which must inevitably destroy their lives if the don’t, vote for the candidate which is least likely to abrogate more of their political freedoms realizing that their vote is of no consequence in setting things right, and then act as individuals and organize themselves to act collectively in the destruction of this power, the result will be accomplished. Government is not the problem Banks are, and once they’ve killed all the Banks, then government must and will by default revert to the service of the people, by the people, of the people and for the people, and then we will actually have a real democracy where they can choose and elect those whom they deem likely to act in their own interests, without manipulation of the process and candidacies by Banks in their interest. All that they have to do i order for this to happen is to simply kill all the Banks, Big Banks, Little Banks, Central Banks, each and every Bank, and they all know this too.

    Then for the first time in the history of the United States of America, we will have real money as a means of trade. Not bank notes representing debt or accruing interest, not stupid finite commodities trying to function as a means of trade for other commodities, but real United States Currency, issued by our own United States Treasury, and backed by the full value of wealth, talent and abilities of the People of the United States of America, where the currency will facilitate the exchange of the full value of wealth, talent and abilities of the People of the United States of America as well. Economic crisis will be impossible, as there will be nothing left to create it, trade will become functional, as instead of f’cking around with a dozen private banks in order to process a transaction, we can simply maintain our accounts at our local branches of the United States Treasury, where payment from New York can be cleared on the spot in Los Angeles and sent to Miami to be cleared that same day in order to affect the shipment of goods we need as well.

    That is an Economy my friends, a real economy, with real money, real trade, real production, real wealth, real prosperity, where all of this can and must simply keep on increasing exponentially restricted only by our own ability to create it, and not be brought crashing down by Banks and interest where we are forever having to start over again instead of building on what we have established to the point where it is no longer possible to start over anymore which we have reached today.

    The day that is established, everyone in America will experience a standard of living 5 times what it has ever been in the past simply due to the lack of Banks to consume our productive effort, and within a few years it will be 30 times whatever it has been in the past simply due to the lack of banks to restrict our productive effort with their control of currency. It can just keep growing from then on as there will be no parasitic infection to prevent it from doing so, and its only up to us from that point on as well and we the people, can do an awful lot, given the simple freedom to benefit from the full extent of what we ourselves can do. It is our right, and not a privilege to be granted to us by Banks and politicians in their service at their whim. Kill all the banks and we will have secured this right as well, Big Banks, Little Banks, Central Banks, each and every Bank.

    http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/fiat-money-inflation-federal-reserve/comment-page-68/#comment-139472

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  8. South Pacific Vacation Destinations

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  9. Brady

    I agree with every single point, I’ve been saying this for several years now. But how do I (we?) know that if elected, Mr. Paul be able to implement these ideas?
    As the popular vote has no real impact on who is elected president, how could we even get him elected in our current plutocracy?

    ( I am really looking for solid answers to these questions.)

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  10. Anup

    Go back to the hold standard? Are you nuts?
    Simple question: Where will you put that gold? How much will it cost to insure/protect?

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  11. ARepentantYankeeLivingInOccupiedAlabama

    Mike:

    Point 1: Socialism relies on the people’s belief that government can do for them what they can not do for themselves. While the (un)FairTax distributes the funds “equally”, it still will reinforce the idea to the vast majority of the people that “The Government” is “giving” them something every month. Think about how the majority of the people view their Income Tax Refund. The vast majority miss the point that it is merely their money which was confiscated and held, forcibly, at no interest, and is now merely being returned to them. There are ways around that, but most people think that little present in April is nice, because the Government Schools have done a good job in not teaching economics.

    Point 2: I am merely using their own boast that the tax is “Progressive”. And “Progressive” always means exactly what I said in the first message. The productive pay and the unproductive absorb. Productivity falls and dependency grows. As an example, I retired at the earliest possible date because I was tired of working 40% or so of my hours on the job to pay for government. Most of which I feel is not only non-productive, but counter productive.

    Point 3: Seems to be the same excuse for not reducing taxes in the past by the people we are trying to oust. “Revenue Neutral”, in reality, is just a shorter means of saying “We are going to spend whatever we want and take it from you anyway we can, so mind your business and let us mind ours!”. The dynamics of an economy is totally alien to our political “leaders”.

    Point 4: I did not read the book itself, but have read from the web site frequently since the proposal first saw public exposure. I have listened to the arguments by Bortz and others from time to time. I find nothing in either of those which would change anything I wrote in the first post.

    Point 5: I take issue with your item 5. I am making perfect sense here. I do not pay Social Security “Contributions” nor Medicare Payroll Taxes since I am retired! The same holds true for anyone who has retired. We had the promise that we were “Paid in full” on those two taxes. (We do pay some current “premiums” for Medicare, even after retirement.) Under the (un)FairTax, having paid them for all our working lives, we would be forced to start again, tearing up our previously issued receipt. Those two “entitlements” are going to make up the largest share of taxes in the future and the ones most likely to drive increases in the (un)FairTax making current retirees not only pay again, but pay for services they will probably not live to see. This is obviously not the only reason I reject this plan, but the one which justified the “(un)”. I also realize that those plans will perhaps pay a higher return to me than I paid in. (Then again, any keystroke may be my last!) That will not be true for the next wave of retirees, who paid even more of their wages toward the promise of a “Paid in Full” receipt. One thing government should never do is break a promise. That strikes me as kind of an ex-post-facto thing.)

    Also, the (un)FairTax is not like I describe as my initial support for a consumption tax.. It does not show as a line entry on the sales slips. Just as a VAT is a “hidden” tax, the (un)FairTax will make the same ignorant people that I mentioned in Point 1 to believe that the culprit is the manufacturer/retailer, not that the government is merely taxing the daylights out of them. (I do not mean the “ignorant” in the pejorative sense, but as the dictionary definition. Again, they are merely a product of our current educational system where to truly understand government or finances, a student is on his own.) I do not buy the argument the supporters present that prices will reach equilibrium with current prices. That takes glasses with a deeper shade of rose than I own.

    I fully agree the tax code is a mess. As a retiree with “conventional” investments, I probably spend 40 to 80 hours preparing my taxes each year when record keeping and calculation is considered. I do support a consumption tax, but as an “open” and “explicit” sales tax. I don’t think that is politically viable since it doesn’t conceal government costs from the public well enough. I don’t hold much hope for a 5-liner either, mainly because of the many benefits to the political structure provided by favorable treatment to certain constituency, i.e. those that pay the most!

    I suspect we agree on most of the points behind each other’s viewpoints. I also suspect there is a better solution than the (un)FairTax. (I also hope you will forgive my little idiosyncratic reference, but I find it is effective in getting folks with whom I discuss the plan to look at the downsides and the unintended and/or unadvertised consequences.)

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  12. Mike Cuneo

    To ARepentantYankeeLivingInOccupiedAlabama:

    Actually I’ve read the FairTax book and the sequel, which answers a lot of questions that people have brought up. I also bought a book that bashed the FairTax plan and read it. And I’m well aware Mises.org opposes this tax as well, since I’ve read at least one article there on the subject. So I know the plan fairly well. Let’s go over your qualms with the FairTax.

    1. The Government will be giving out prebate checks to cover the necessities and that’s it. It will be based on some measure where you are defined as at the poverty level or below. So it’s possible to not pay any taxes at all, if you just consume up to the level of poverty. Could promote savings among lower income families, could promote laziness in people hovering around the line, depending on other policies. With other sound policies, the latter would not occur. But to say this is “socialism” is absurd. Every family would get the prebate, so it’s equal, and thus fits the “FairTax” moniker. Again, Bill Gates as well as the local bum would get the same amount. The exact opposite of socialism, because if it was socialistic people would claim that Gates “doesn’t need” the prebate check.

    2. You aren’t taxing production at all, you are actually removing the current taxes that hinder production. You are only taxing consumption, and less consumption would actually help our economy long term, until we get our finances in order. Again, other sound policies would help make this a reality.

    3. The plan is only revenue neutral because the authors of the plan recognize how hard it’s going to be to implement any change of this magnitude in today’s political climate. They specifically mention this in the book, and state that reducing government spending is a whole different book. And they have a point. Let’s simplify the tax code, then people will come around to the evils of a bigger government. This will come slowly at first, but when combined with other policies (ie sound money, more government control at the state level vs federal, etc) it will catch on very fast.

    4. Did you read the FairTax book? It specifically says in the book that the Bill (which I think is stuck in the House) needs a higher than normal majority to pass a rate change. In other words, if this becomes law, the rate can’t just go up with a slight majority. It needs (I think) 75% of the vote (it may have changed since the bill gets updated from time to time). The authors are also very wise here, because they know how poisonous big government can be, and the incentives for it to grow are all too great. They are trying to put a “check” on the power here and return some to the people. More power to them.

    5. You aren’t making much sense here. First of all, the FairTax would be exactly like what you are describing when you go into the sales tax example. There would be one, 23% (or 30% depending on how you compute it) tax on all purchases. What do you mean by “pay all over again?” You don’t pay taxes now???

    Under a FairTax, your savings won’t be taxed, your capital gains won’t be taxed. your paycheck won’t be taxed, no more added “gas taxes” etc etc. We are in dire need of tax overhaul. If you can’t say for sure how much tax a person pays on an income of $100,000 without going into his marital status, age, occupation, location, how much he has invested, deductions, write offs, etc etc it’s just insane. We need something simple.

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  13. Robert D'Anis

    Go Ron!

    One possible addition: Make health care capitolistic. Force health care to post prices! Allow users to shop for their health care. Allow competition to work!
    This is after all America a capitolistic country isn’t it?
    Nationalizing health care may be the only viable option but let us first try Capitolism.

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    1. julia evans

      My father works in insurance, but comes from the small business owner sector, and together we keep the blog listed above. The purpose of the blog is to simply let people realize their options, and hopefully inspire them to approach their healthcare expenses with the same intelligence they put forth in other large purchases.

      People just don’t know what they are paying for- especially when it comes to standard procedures. I agree that if you are seriously ill, you are willing to pay for the best. But what if the best isn’t necessary the most expensive? Most patients may never know how to rank provides. And, when it comes to GYN visits, children’s physicals or other common procedures, the prices discrepancy can be pretty extreme. Would you buy a car (or even a new pair of jeans) without shopping around? Nope. But people don’t realize that with hospitals and healthcare, they have a choice. Other than emergency situations, almost anyone has the time to seriously reflect on their choice of health CARE. Doctors help people, and strive to rise to the top of their industry just like anyone else. Let them work for your business! In this sense, yes let’s be capitalistic.

      However, I believe that health insurance should be operated more like a credit union or a co-op (non government run). At year’s end, unused funds then go back to those paying into the fund and not lining the pockets of executives …. alas that is a whole other conversation to have on this topic.

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  14. thoughts on a conservative education | Drawing Infinity

    [...] the better. we must decide for ourselves whether we want to be more like Cuba, or more like the United States of America that the Constitution was drafted to govern, the visions of our founding fathers. until then, here [...]

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  15. ARepentantYankeeLivingInOccupiedAlabama

    How Mike, or any Libertarian/Conservative/Classical Liberal can be in favor of the (un)FairTax is beyond me! I have to wonder how many have actually read the proposal rather just than swallowing the propaganda by its slick promoters who use the word “Fair” in such a misleading manner. I include the presidential candidate from the Libertarian Party, and a would-a-been candidate for the Republican nomination this year in the list of the “Dupees”. I hate to say it, but even Dr. Paul’s designated hitter for this year has kind of danced around the issue. (I still plan to find a way to write “Ron Paul” on my ballot.)

    First, the “Prebate” aspect makes it look like Government is a benevolent distributor of money from the money tree that grows in the Potomac Basin. Everyone will receive a check from Uncle Sugar every month. How’s that for promoting Socialism?

    “Progressive” simply means the productive pay the taxes, the unproductive do not. Want less of something (e.g. production) tax it. Want more of something (e.g. dependency and lassitude) subsidize it.

    “Revenue Neutral”. If anyone who believes he is in one of the categories I listed in the first sentence wants the government to have the amount of money to spend in the future that it spends now, he needs to reexamine his political philosophy and start searching other web sites like maybe ACORN, or The Socialist Party, USA.

    And the rate. How easy to change 23% to 32%, then 40%. It only takes 51 Senators, 218 Representatives, and 1 president! Think about how well they all listened to the ordinary citizen about the bailout (oh, sorry, the “rescue”)?

    Least “Fair” of all, it makes those folks (like myself, I will admit) who paid our bills “in full” start paying all over again. Retirees who paid their Social Security “contributions” all their working lives and paid the Medicare taxes for most of their working lives (post-LBJ) can now start paying all over again with every purchase.

    I happen to support consumption taxes. But I only support one where each and every purchase slip carries a tax line for the Federal amount like is generally done for State and Local taxes now. I want everyone to know what all those government “goodies” actually cost! No VAT, not the (un)FairTax, both of which are essentially “hidden” taxes and therefore make it look like the “Filthy Capitalist Pigs” are robbing everyone again.

    If the (un)FairTax is the best they can do, I’ll take the current tax code, thank you! Better yet, let’s all compromise and ask to have Dick Armey’s plan reintroduced with a rate-guarantee clause (I know!) included.

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  16. David Graham

    Confused –

    Not to debunk you, Dazed, but what you said is incorrect, I think. The fact that the exchange rate with the other countries is better and the dollar is getting stronger while compared to other currencies, doesn’t mean that inflation of the dollar isn’t weakening it significantly. When money is introduced into the economy, as it has been at an unprecidented rate recently, every dollar that existed previously become less valuable, because now there are more of them to go around. It means that no matter where you go, you won’t be able to buy as much with that dollar as you did before. This weakening is what I think Ron was referring to. This video explains this to an extent.

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  17. astrocramp

    The gold standard is a bit anachronistic since the commodity is also an artificial store of value – it has relevance only as a luxury item and a few niche industrial applications. The dollar should be based on 1kW of clean, renewable power. Energy is the real currency of today’s world and for the forseeable future, basing currency on clean renewable power would be an incentive to move to energy independence.

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  18. Mark

    You guys don´t understand anything about reforms. How do you think you are gonna change anything if you use terms like “Privatize social security”, and “Eliminate the Department of Education”.

    Even if your ideas make sense in economic terms, they’ll never be accepted by the mainstream media or the population. And you know why? Because people don´t make decisions based on economics only! Emotions, ethics, solidarity also play an important role. When are you guys gonna understand this simple concept? Didn´t you learn that from the Austrian School of Economics??

    Your proposals are a waste of time.

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  19. Mike

    Completely disagree on jails – I mean, if you kill someone and give the jail’s owner a nice bribe, he can let you go. No, that’s out of touch with reality. I don’t know about privatizing Social Security, maybe some minimal form needs to be kept for the poorest of the poor, so that old people could at least survive. The rest of the points are reasonable.

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  20. Amazed and Confused

    The devaluation of the Dollar expected by Dr. Paul was, I believe, based on the incorrect assumption that the rest of the Global economies were in good shape as the U.S. economy has its own private meltdown.

    The fact is that Euro and Sterling economies have the same maladies as the Dollar – plus the benefits (liabilities) of social programs that make Democrats appear conservative.

    Amazed — The moment I had concluded that O-Biden / Mc-Palin was a tossup, and write-in or independent vote is in order, the Obama & Raila Odinga you tube videos found me. If you think W.Ayres as Education secretary is unsettling, take the election by ethnic cleansing Cousin Raila for council on foreign affairs will chill your bones. — No Obama, No Peace! has been telegraphed by James Carvill recently…Kenya voted for Continuity, but Obama helped his Cousin deliver CHANGE to Shariah Law.

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  21. Confused

    Im confused, can someone please explain? Ron Paul keeps claiming that the dollar is going to become worthless, etc. etc. And yet as the economy has collapsed, the dollar has only been getting stronger. WAY stronger than even a few weeks ago. So what’s the deal?

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  22. Karel

    One point was forgotten although it is the most important one – 100 % reserves. Remember – the fractional reserve banking trick is the sole root of all this central banking (ergo big government) mess. Without strict 100 % reserves requirement, your whole revolution would revert back to central banks and globalism.

    Anyway – I’m watching your effort from over the ocean for several months now, and I keep my fingers crossed for you guys. All this Ron Paul movement is the REAL hope for the whole world. That’s America, I guess – being the world’s biggest tyrant and the brightest beacon of hope at the same time :)

    Don’t give up, push on. We in Europe are doing OUR best, but it’s difficult to make our message as powerful as yours is, because here the central banks are not as openly evil as Fed. For example our central bank (I’m from the Czech Republic) is forbidden to directly lend money to the government and the history of its founding is not as colourful as the 100 years struggle between your greatest presidents and the banking trust). And the European corporatism and imperialism is not as severe. So everything is less visible, less painful, more blurred and the public doesn’t give much shit.

    And we cannot get help from OUR enlightened representatives and oficials either. We don’t have our Ron Paul. Although – believe it or not – our own president is a supporter of the Austrian School! He knows Dr. Paul (maybe they’re even friends), he invited Dr. Paul to give a lecture on the occassion of publishing the Czech translation of Mises’s Human Action (you can listen to Dr. Paul’s lecture here:

    http://gfx.libinst.cz/libinst/pjp06_paul.mp3

    yet he never addresses the public and speaks the truth as Dr. Paul does (I suspect he is simply a coward). And what’s worse – the vice chairman of our central bank and one of its Board Members are also great promoters of the Austrian School! High central bank officials! Traitors.

    So good luck to you all and keep the good work. We hope your revolution will succeed, for the sake of all of us

    Karel
    Czech Republic

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  23. Marc

    Maturin,
    I do agree with the spirit of your argument, that rehabilitation and restitution create more value than punishment. Locking people up is not an ideal solution to crime. The threat of prison was clearly an insufficient deterrent to stop them from committing the crime. Once there they socialize exclusively with criminals, learning no honest skills valuable outside prison. It is also extremely expensive to keep them in jail. For criminals that are not a danger to others this does not seem beneficial to society.
    However, if corporations are profiting off felons and can influence their parole then private institutions will have power over a persons freedom and financial motivation to abuse it. Private individuals demanding labor in exchange for eventual freedom feels too much like bondage. The power to imprison should be restricted to the state.
    I am not convinced that corporations are the right instruments to improve prisons. Perhaps I could be convinced by an alternate formulation.

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  24. Marc

    Arturo,
    why is ending the War on Drugs dumb?

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  25. Arturo Buenaventura

    End the war on Drugs? That is certainly dumb.

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  26. Joe

    I totally agree with several points you made:
    Yes, The federal reserve should be eliminated, they are not even technically federal as they are not an authentic part of the government, this is a free nation and our businesses and independent banks should be allowed to control our own rates, we don’t need some shadowy entity controlling our money.
    Yes, Coinciding with the change above, the IRS should without a doubt be eliminated, the only people who end up paying tax in our country are the ones who work everyday to maintain it, immigrants both legel and illegal, welfare receivers, unemployed, etc. contribute 0, and absorb a lot. A fairtax and/or increased sales tax system would help to even-out and stabalize this.
    Yes, The war on drugs and the wars abroad in iraq/afghanistan are all time consuming, pointless, and a complete waste of money. There should be some system(and this is abit much I know) in place that allows people to have at least some control of where there tax money is going. It should not be just give 40% of your pay so the government can decide they want to invade Iran, it’s ludacris. The drug war has been going on since forever, and it’s probably worse than ever, it’s all a big joke.
    Yes, There should definitely be more coverage for a third party in debates. This day and age regardless of the brainwashing they might feed you at the end of the day the key members of democratic and republican parties are on the same team and share the same agenda. It’s laughable to think otherwise, they all share in the same international organized chain of command which controls the media and literally blocks out other parties from coverage. The government is NOT dumb contrary to what they may want you to believe, everything they do including what are seemingly “mistakes” are well planned and for a reason. Had they really wanted to control our recession problem they could have done it years earlier, the fact is the current crisis, the bailout being passed and the ultimate goal of CONTROLLING banks and businesses is accomplished. We are being stripped of more liberty and freedom everyday without even knowing it.(well I know it, just wish many more did as well).

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  27. maturin

    Marc and Mike,

    I think you are both right, but about the wrong solution. Instead of simply throwing criminals in jails to let them rot, we need to put them to work in a way that might possibly benefit them, as well as society. Entrepreneurial enterprises that teach them skills while they are locked up, and use those skills to create profit, are the true free market solution. And the corporations that undertake such could contract with the more productive criminals for early release in exchange for continued employment. A win-win situation for the criminal, the state, the corporation, and society. I am sure that a free market would come up with a myriad of creative ways, which we cannot even imagine today, to rehabilitate criminals by building their strengths in socially beneficial and productive directions.

    Instead of seeing them as no value to society, the market would find what value they have and maximize it.

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  28. Marc

    I don’t think market forces are the right tools for determining law, especially criminal law. In principle, when deciding laws, I think that all citizens opinions should have equal weight. Market forces weight opinions in proportional to the amount of money a person controls.

    I do think that repealing drug laws is sufficient to deal with the root problem, the high cost of jails. It will also allow the justice system more time to better and more thoroughly prosecute violent crimes, and perhaps even white collar crime.

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  29. Marc

    Jails should not be privatized, people jailed by the state are the state’s responsibility. No private organization should have the right to hold a person prisoner. Private jails create perverse incentives for both the jails and the state. Jails lobby for tougher drug laws as harsh drug laws increase their profits. Operating through a proxy allows the state to ignore its responsibility to fair treatment of its prisoners. Responsibilities should not be ignored in the name of cost savings. The cost of jails will drop on its own as drug laws are repealed.

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  30. Dan Beaulieu

    I like rons take on taxes a little better.

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  31. maturin

    Mr. Hooks,

    While your suggestion seems laudable, it would not work. Just as “campaign finance reform” has never worked (and which candidate sponsored that bill?), you cannot prohibit people or businesses from spending their money as they see fit. If you prohibit corporate donations, the money would still get there, but it would take more devious routes, via employees being reimbursed to contribute to campaigns, or some such chicanery. Money and power cannot be extricated from each other. The only answer to money influencing politics would be total transparency: campaigns must list all contributors of more than $1000 on every advertisement, the way car dealers have to list the fine print of their deals on the radio or TV.

    Let people be informed. You will never stop the money flow, but you can make the public aware of it.

    Does the public know how much money Freddie and Fannie contributed to McBama, or Goldman Sachs, or AIG, etc….? The information is out there, but well hidden. Try:

    http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/mems.php?party=A&cycle=2008

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  32. Kendy

    All the Media Pin Heads keep asking when “we the people” will reinvest in the Market. What have I learned from this whole situation? I am not qualified to determine the value of companies in the stock market. I do not trust the Accounting rules, laws, etc. I do not trust any oversight, I do not trust the media, and I do not trust our government. I will not be putting my money back into the stock market. I will not support Wall Street or the corrupt politicians that receive their funding from this group. I will seek private investments. I have a great income and many investments, mostly real estate which is also shaky, but at least I have a chance of knowing the value of my property. As soon as the House started debating the bailout, I pulled all of my money out of the stock market, and it will not go back. I know my position sounds extreme, however, many people agree with me.

    Kendy

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  33. Ryan B.

    Regarding #6, every county needs to follow Arizona’s Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s sytem!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/arpaio.asp

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  34. Edward Hooks

    All good stuff, and I would propose one more point. Take the temptation for quick cash out of politics. Lobbyist are still needed to inform the representation, which appear clueless most of the time.

    #12- Prohibition on non-person entities (corporations any form) from contributing to Political Campaigns in cash or kind.

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