Ron Paul on Gun Control
In his latest essay Ron Paul addresses the issue of gun control. When the government makes guns illegal, only criminals – and the government itself – will own firearms. The result is less freedom and less safety for everyone else, i.e. law-abiding citizens. — tmartin
Gun Control: Protecting Terrorists and Despots
by Ron Paul
Tragically, over the Thanksgiving holiday, the world was reminded how evil and cruel people can be. According to emerging accounts of the events in India, about a dozen well-armed and devastatingly well-trained terrorists laid siege on the city of Mumbai, killing almost two hundred people, and terrorizing thousands.
Regardless of the reasons, the indiscriminate shooting on masses of unarmed and defenseless people is chilling and reprehensible. How were these terrorists able to continue so long, relatively unchallenged, killing so many?
India’s gun laws are her business, of course. However, once the shock of these events and the initial reaction of fear passes, Americans should take away a valuable lesson about real homeland security and gun control from this tragedy.
Gun control advocates tell us that removing guns from society makes us safer. If that were the case why do the worst shootings happen in gun free zones, like schools? And while accidents do happen, aggressive, terroristic shootings like this are unheard of at gun and knife shows, or military bases. It bears repeating that an armed society truly is a polite society.
The fact is that firearm technology exists. It cannot be uninvented. As long as there is metalworking and welding capability, it matters not what gun laws are imposed upon law-abiding people. Those that wish to have guns, and disregard the law, will have guns. Gun control makes violence safer and more effective for the aggressive, whether the aggressor is a terrorist or a government.
History shows us that another tragedy of gun laws is genocide. Hitler, for example, knew well that in order to enact his “final solution,” disarmament was a necessary precursor. While it is not always the case that an unarmed populace WILL be killed by their government, if a government is going to kill its own people, it MUST disarm them first so they cannot fight back. Disarmament must happen at a time when overall trust in government is high, and under the guise of safety for the people, or perhaps the children. Knowing that any government, no matter how idealistically started, can become despotic, the Founding Fathers enabled the future freedom of Americans by enacting the second amendment.
In our own country, we should be ever vigilant against any attempts to disarm the people, especially in this economic downturn. I expect violent crime to rise sharply in the coming days, and as states and municipalities are even more financially strained, the police will be even less able or willing to respond to crime. In many areas, local police could become more and more absorbed with revenue generating activities, like minor traffic violations and the asset forfeiture opportunities of non-violent drug offenses. Your safety has always, ultimately been your own responsibility, but never more so than now. People have a natural right to defend themselves. Governments that take that away from their people should be highly suspect.
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[...] then 90% of this s#!t stuff would go away! Finally, regarding Gun Owners of America (GOA), a wise man once referred to them as, “the ONLY no compromise gun lobby in Washington.” I tend to [...]
The gun buying frenzy in recent weeks is NOT because,
Obama is black and to assassinate a black president,
Nor is is because we the people are afraid our government will ban guns,
Sure, there may be exceptions, but no, the real reason is that,
We the People know that we may have to stand up to a tyrannical, socialist government hell bent on destroying our rights and freedoms and it IS every United States citizens’ DUTY, yes DUTY, to keep and bear arms. All armament, not just a handgun, per OUR God given rights and the Constitution of the United States of America. Anyone against these principals is a traiter to this country which so many have died to protect. Your and your childrens freedom and liberty are at stake and the second ammendment is what stands between being a controlled slave and a free man when your government no longer represents its people. I will take freedom and liberty or death before being a slave.
Amen, Amen;
Ever notice how our valiant leaders have never served our country in the military?
Agree, our solemn duty is to the preservation of America as a Democracy. Millions of us civies have fought and served before; looks like round two just may be called. Only trouble is, patriots are scattered all over our great land, no central organization.
We owe our liberty and freedom and allegiance to America and interestingly enough we owe the rest of the world to show them sheeples how to fight back and win against the NWO. Getting tired of U.S.A. always being the tip of the spear.
America as a ‘constitutional republic’ as intended by our forefathers. And to the ‘republic’ for which it stands….. Democracy is just mob rule.
Right you are.
Just think, without Democracy, we could have always been just as miserable as the rest of the socialist world.
America, a most complex and wonderfully free and generous society.
I read on Wendy McElroy’s website:
http://www.wendymcelroy.com/news.php?extend.2190
That an economist did an analysis of whether police use traffic tickets to offset financial crises. The answer turns out to be yes. This doesn’t really surprise me, as I live in Princeton, NJ, and there are so many traffic tickets given out by the police here, that I find it more convenient just to walk everywhere (plus it’s healthier, but still the situation is sad). I contested and won a traffic ticket case for going 37 MPH right before a 40 sign. Sigh.
If guns kill people, then I can blame misspelled words on my pencil!
“In my country, Sweden, the population is disarmed. We have one of the lowest crime rate in the world.”
It’s not the guns it’s the culture. Swedish culture is entirely different than the U.S. That and you guys have an extremely homogeneous society not seen in the U.S.
And actually the U.S has very little crime outside of major cities. A huge majority of violent crime in this country is urban black on black crime perpetrated by 18-25 year old black men.
“I doubt anyone would sell guns if they knew that they would be responsible for the damage it does.”
Sean – You’re kidding right? Why should the seller be responsible for criminal misuse of their products? Can you imagine what that’d do to our legal system. Following your logic we should make car manufacturers and liquor companies responsible for drunk driving deaths and knife manufacturers and cutlery stores legally responsible for stabbings……
Wonderful idea there buddy.
“We should outlaw pistols and concealed weapons. What need do we have to hide our weapons in order to use them for self defense? A shotgun would help just as much.”
What? Should we outlaw the internet because of the potential harm it might cause? After all we still have newspapers and other free speech mediums so outlawing free speech online wouldn’t be an infringement on the 1st Amendment right? (just drawing a parallel to your “let’s ban handguns” idiocy) You do realize handguns are constitutionally protected arms don’t you? or does the Constitution not matter to you?
Oh, and newsflash. The folks out committing crimes with concealed weapons are carrying them illegally. Folks like myself who go through the hassle of getting concealed carry permits aren’t the ones committing crimes.
If it weren’t for the fact that so many Americans have an irrational fear of guns I’d just carry openly.
I suggest you go about your business carrying a shotgun everywhere for self-defense. Let me know how that works out for you.
“There are limits to the rights granted by the first amendment (yelling “fire” in a movie theater for free speech, polygamy for freedom of religion, libel for freedom of press, etc.), why should there not be reasonable limits on the rights granted in the second amendment?”
Irish. You seem to have missed the fundamental difference in your “crowded theater” comparison.
1. Gun control laws are a priori restrictions on a Constitutional right. The crowded theater restriction on 1st Amendment rights is based on ones actions. The law doesn’t muzzle me or cut out my tongue in order to prevent me from yelling “fire” in the theater. It doesn’t punish me, a law-abiding citizen, because a subset of the population makes a habit of yelling fire in crowded theaters. No, in the crowded theater example you are punished for your actions because said actions cause immediate harm to others.
Your comparison is 100% invalid, as the crowded theater exception punishes the MISUSE of free speech. We already have laws against rape, murder, robbery and other forcible violent crimes. Such laws punish criminals for their ACTIONS. Gun control does nothing but restrict the rights of those who have done nothing wrong.
Another thing,
I have never and will never register a gun,all that does is gives the confiscators a direct path to where they need to go and take them from you,the NAZI SS used gun registrations to locate and imprison gun owners when the gun bans were put in place,those refusing to surrender,were killed,”BY THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT”
don’t think it’s gonna happen here,keep dreaming,it’s here,that’s why Ron Paul is warning us now,he knows there is going to be a revolution,and an attempt at a hostile military takeover of our nation,”read between the lines”,
THIS IS A WARNING FROM A SITTING CONGRESSMAN,please take his words as a warning of things to come,Realize that to the federal government of the United States,if you love your rights and freedoms,”YOU ARE A TERRORIST”….
INFERNO
Sean,and anyone else with his mindset,
You need to look at history yourself,”WE” were totally defeated in Vietnam,Lost millions of acres of ground to the VC,over 50,000 American service men killed,another 35,000 maimed for life,countless returning Vietnam soldiers mentally dead from what this war did to them,and more that have never been accounted for and are still considered MIA,you call that a victory?
I don’t know where you get your information,but we did not win the war in Vietnam,militarily or economically,and the whole fiasco was a shameful blackeye for this country,you’ve spewed a lot of crap about not liking guns,but have completely failed in providing an alternative to the situation,I am a gun owner,and like many other Americans,I refuse to be disarmed by a government that will in turn,use my vulnerability and defenselessness against me,even if every gun on the planet were to be done away with,people would still kill because they are just demented that way,they would find some other means whether it be ball bats,knifes,a piece of rebar,whatever,see you need to think before you go off on some rant about taking guns away from the people,if you don’t want to own a gun,”FINE”,enjoy being a victim,
“but don’t you dare tread on my right to own a gun”,because I refuse to be a victim,and I have “No Faith” in the police ever protecting me or my family,remember,they only show up if you call them,if your dead,you can’t call anybody…
I don’t know who you are,but I can tell by your post that you’ve never “studied” history,Stalin,Lenin,Hitler,Mao,all supported gun bans,look what happened to the people who went along with them,people who support gun bans should (first),be ashamed of yourself for claiming citizenship of America,but turning on the very document that allows you to be American,
(second),if you want to live in a country that it’s citizens have no right to self defense,I suggest you move to China,they’ll gladly welcome anybody who likes total dictatorial rule,after all,no guns,no crime right?But also no rights,no ownership,no freedom of religion,no security in your home,no right to defend yourself in court,you see the can of worms you open if you start putting restrictions on any part of the Constitution and Bill of Rights?
Regardless of how you think “Restrictions” would stop gun violence,you need to realize,
“CRIMINALS DON’T BUY THEIR GUNS LEGITIMATELY”
so no amount of gun legislation will ever stop or reduce crime,it will only create a society of victims that can’t protect themselves,your reasoning makes no sense,if I,a legal gun owner have a gun stolen in a burglary of my house and that gun is later used in a crime,should I be held responsible for the crime?Remember,I was also a victim of this criminal,
The solution to our problem is not taking guns away from people who have them legitimately,but putting the criminals that commit crimes in jail,instead of running them through a revolving door court system that has failed this nation grossly.Pot smokers spend more time in jail than murderers,is that justice?
If you give up your right to self defense,what will you surrender next,the right to be secure in you home by letting law enforcement in to trample into your house,unwarranted and rooting through your life any time they please?
our governent has allowed our country to be bought.our oficials have been bought.news media bought.world bankers tighten their grip and steal trillions from us.they control and plan everything.they seek to fragment us. they want wars. they want cultures , relegions,races killing each other while they sit back and gain control of the world.i think the leaders and the bankers who control our leaders should fight on the same battlefield as all of the expendable soldiers.america has more cultures and relegions than any other country in the world. if we cant make it happen here (freedom liberty and justice for all.)the world will live tyrany.we will all be part of someones equation.2nd amendment yes, constitution yes , bill of rights yes.patriot act no,homeland sec. no.they want a police /military state.its already begun. thomas jefferson ron paul bob marley .yes. the rules of engagement should be made clear. catrina for instance ,nra won suit but police , military not in jail? patricia konie and so many more.when they come to your house with guns.and try to seize your right to protect yourself if you were to shoot them i would find you within your right of self protection. they tramppled on the constitution in catrina . everybody that fought for freedom is in disbelief.if we all fight we will win…the police ,military serve the citizens.not to controll us.OR EVER TAKE OUR RIGHTS .
In the nightmare scenario of our own military being used against us in the coming challenges I’d have to hope that ‘most’ of our soldiers wouldn’t fire on civilians. Answering questions on military application forms is easy, reality is quite different. We can hope anyway. But be prepared for the worst in any event.
We’re hopefully a long way from that though. NOW is the time to act and march on Washington en masse peacefully. No weapons of any kind except loud voices and clogged streets.
Wake the sheeple!
Heard lately that we probably won’t have to worry about fighting our own troops. That’s why America is hosting a whole lot of foreign “blue hat” U.N. troops. They have no problem with firing on American civilians, it’s not their people. You see some blue hats coming at you, start unloading just under the hats. They all have those great armour vests we civies are not allowed to wear. If you don’t have an auto rifle before, you’ll have plenty after your smoke clears.
As for local cops, has anyone noticed in recent years, the cops are getting more beligerent, standoffish, gruf and much less helpful? Wonder if they all would have a change of heart or just side with the gov. for their own sake?
As far as marches; Washington will sit up and take us seriously only if we can get many millions to march together at the same time and surround the capital and White House. Peacefully, of course.
People wake up! First off I can maneuver through the halls of my house a lot better with a handgun than a shotgun. I also live right between the cities of Trenton and Camden in NJ. I could go buy an illegal gun right now if I wanted. Sweden may be able to restrict the amount of guns in their country, but that is because their borders are secured by mountains. It’s the same thing with Switzerland. Countries don’t stay neutral in world wars unless it isn’t worth it for the aggressors to go through their countries. The mountains are a good deterrent. So while Sweden may be able to keep guns out the US never will. The US has thousands of miles of open border. Think about it how many thousands of kilos of Cocaine are smuggled across the border. That could just as easily be guns. Sweden also has a more civil population. In the US we have a ton of people that are more than happy to take what is yours to make themselves better off. Most crime is committed with illegal guns. Under Bill Clinton we were told we had to surrender anything our government deemed assault weapons even though the the amount of gun crime that was committed by citizens who purchased these assaults weapons legally was only .17 percent. That is less than one percent. If someone commits a crime against you with a gun you have a 24 percent chance of being injured if you don’t resist at all. That percent drops to 17 percent when you resist with a firearm.
I recall England banning guns several years back. They are a closer example to the US than Sweden. Let’s see how they are doing. Just read the following article. The numbers were prepared by the UN which is extremely anti-gun.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798708/posts
Now as for the whole American citizens would never defeat the best army in the world. Sorry but that is just crap. We already did it once. England didn’t know what hit them. The fact is any population that goes to war against an occupying force wins as long as they are determined. The Afghans did it to the Russians,and the Vietnamese did it to the US. Almost 50% of the population in the US owns guns. That’s 150 million people and that only the people that are telling you they have guns. Combine that with the fact that most military officers are pro gun and we have a pretty good chance. Add in the fact that more than half of all enlisted personnel that are asked if they would ever fire on American civilians because the civilians refused to surrender their arms said no. It’s looking pretty good for the Gun owners. I find it funny that every man or woman that applies for Spec ops in the US has to answer the question of whether or not they would fire on Americans who didn’t surrender their guns. That’s just creepy. Why does the government even ask that.
Now you have to add in the fact that the biggest armored bases in the world are in Kentucky and Texas were very gun friendly. I’m pretty sure that armed Texans and Kentuckians would get their hands on those tanks.
In Freedom,
Greg
My reasons to own a gun.
-To protect my family. Just let a dangerous criminal bust through my door. He is sure to find himself lying on the floor filled with buckshot.
-To supply my family with food. Unlike all the anti gun people. I have the ability to fend for myself and my family. No matter how poor I become. With flour and a gun I can prepare a three course meal.
Now, after reading my statements. Do you think that guns should be banned?
If you still believe that guns should be banned. You are obviously a moron. I would love to see you put in a situation that you need a gun. So that I could say. I told you so.
Being a good Christian I would not let you die, I would take you in and protect you and yours with a gun.
Wow, the device that you said should be banned just saved your life in a time of need!
I hope you get the Idea.
With you most of the way!!! Only trouble I have is with sheeple. If they bang on your door for protection, don’t close your eyes they just can not be trusted not to turn you in for their own sake.
The fear of guns and real freedom runs strong and deep in the sheeple. Sad. Somehow the warrior spirit of this country needs to be rekindled but I’m not sure how. So many generations of our people have been taught not to think for themselves.
Street crime aside, the current government has just stolen trillions of dollars from you and continues to do so every day. They do so in plain sight with no restrictions and no accountability through the Fed and the Treasury. This money was stolen by private companies run by the wealthiest and most powerful scumbags on this planet. Now if you, or your children choose not to pay it back the IRS will throw you in prison.
This simple criminal act proves that the government is no longer yours or mine. The pigmen of the world now own our government and have launched an all out assault on every single working citizen. Do you really think they’ll stop with just your money?
Please wake up and join a cause to fight this. If you want to carry weapons or not doesn’t matter. Respect our founding rights and realize the very real crimes commited against you and act before it’s too late.
Just bc they have an FOID card doesn’t mean they have to register their weapons.. People with an FOID card buy weapons and sell them on the street to people who can’t get an FOID card because the guns they buy do not have to be registered. If they were registered, than they would take the fault of murder. I doubt anyone would sell guns if they knew that they would be responsible for the damage it does.
They probably buy guns from people smuggling them from other states. Or do you really think that every private gun seller checks for a FOID card???? Anyways, homicide will always occur, the point is, its not taking away any of your rights so why should you care? I would just like to save one life.
I live in a state, IL, that already has mandatory registration (ie FOID card)…yet, in Chicago, more Americans are {killed} in a year than American soldiers in Iraq. Frankly, I’m pretty sure that despite registration, homicides will still occur, as the majority of homocides are committed by unregistered users. Hmmmmm. This is a dilemma. Perhaps we should have people register their personalities? Type A’s have to wear Red, type B’s have to wear Yellow…
Then they can register their race, religion, age, ability to work at hard labor, etc. The Jews in Hitler Germany must have loved being branded with that big ole star of David.
Again, registration just ids the good guys while ignoring all the bad guys who are having a huge laugh at the long lines of citizens waiting to be legally approved.
Keep your eyes wide open…it is times like these (and getting worse) that help guys like Hitler to gain power…who will the next crack-pot blame for our woes? Mexicans? Pols? Perhaps America, as a whole?
All I know is…the more our gov’t restricts us (for our own good…LOL)the crazier the general public gets. It’s like the proverbial “frog in a slowly boiling pot of water”…it will be too late for us to realize we’re cooked.
Anybody have Ted Nugent’s address? I want to be his neighbor, right about now.
If your not a felon, than you have nothing to worry about and you wouldn’t notice the restriction.. If you are a felon, you aren’t allowed to buy hand guns anyways. That is a law that is not enforced. Making people have background checks and register their weapons at gun shows would not take away any right what so ever you might have unless you are a known criminal.
But it does put you on a national i.d. list. The government can then use this info to illegally confiscate legal weapons and arrest legal gun owners as threats to the state.
What the threat, “if you are a felon, you are not allowed to buy a gun”: Give me a break, felons buy guns any day all day off the street, steal legal guns from our homes and conceal them without worrying if they are committing a crime.
Government does not want to crack down on legal owners to stop crime; they want to make it easier to control the unarmed masses should or when they decide to exercise complete control for their own profit.
Sean, if I met you on the street, I would probably give you a hug, then tell you to go to hell for wanting to put restrictions on my right to self determination for “the collective good”.
“I shot the sheriff, but I swear it was in self-defense!” Bob Marley
If there was one less gun on the street and one less murder because we forced people to buy guns legitimately, it would be worth that and so much more.
haha. your right, there will always be hatred, which controls the desire to kill. I was just stating that forcing people to register guns and buy guns legitimately would greatly reduce the amount of deaths. It wont stop the killing, but it would help.
“Me only have one ambition, y’know. I only have one thing I really like to see happen. I like to see mankind live together – black, white, Chinese, everyone – that’s all.” -Bob Marley
Ah Utopia,
Good book. Will only work when the masses are brain dead and the leaders are too full from raking in all of the excesses.
Registering firearms does only one thing. It gives the tyrannical government a sure fire way of collecting all gun owners and weapons, at their leasure. It does not deter crime. Only stopping the criminals’ activity will stop crime.
Sean:
You are correct, there will always be violent people…restrictions, though, will not do. Look at Great Britain, a disarmed society, is now trying to legislate restrictions on knives b/c they have a “knife” problem. Would you be willing to do that?
I applaud your desire for a peaceful, nonviolent, but your naivete is really uninspiring. Perhaps you should find another thread? Or perhaps you could quote us somemore Bob Marley? That’s inspiring!
I’m sick of the people who are in favor of tampering with the Bill of Rights (most notably the 2nd amend)…all of the additional amendments were added to the constitution (ie voting rights, civil rights act, etc.) to grant MORE liberty where it did not exist. How does that allow you to justify the withdrawal of liberty (ie, firearm ownership) just b/c people die at the hands of some violent schmucks! More people drown in pools than are shot with guns (intentional or accidental)…should we revoke the right to swim in pools? You’re walking thin ice when you start to use the constitution to revoke liberties. That was not what it was “designed” for, so please shut up with your “enlightened society doesn’t need armed citizens” argument b/c I gaurantee that you’ll be knocking on my door for protection when desparate times come knocking on your door…I’m not enlighted, or refined, but I’ll fight to the death for the retention of my personal liberties (and yours)!
Amen Swanny,
When the kaka hits the fan, the one who shoots first will usually live to clean his gun.
Come through my door uninvited, with flashlights and auto rifles you’ll wish I only had a pack of pitbulls.
As for the sheeple who run to the doors of patriots like us, good luck. I’ll put on the front porch light so the invading military and police can see ya.
lol. We helped Southern Vietnam defeat Northern Vietnam just like we helped Afganistan defeated the Russians in the Cold War.. It hasn’t been since the American Revolution that a true militia upheld an Army. Learn your history. Good God.
Sean,
Are you over 14?
Study history man. Good God educate yourself if you are over 14.
The strong, unbending will of people is what matters. Small groups of armed people have held off the “strongest” and best equipped armies on Earth time and time again. Afghanistan, Vietnam, US!
Have you even seen a child blow his own head off?
You must be the type with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other. Just like the terrorist we’re fighting.
technically, sean…the terrorists we are fighting carry an AK47 or a RPG…the men who trained and brain-drained them were carrying a koran. they use their guns & bombs like cowards. we hold our guns to defend our keep (if necessary), or to put a little venison on the table (give me your address and i’ll send you a little homemade jerky…LOL).
you said “have you ever seen a child blow his own head off?”…nope, but i’ve seen a few drown in the public pool…perhaps we should all stop swimming?
and whoever said that sweeden’s diversity was the reason of the low homicide rate is incorrect. Most homicides are race on race crimes, so that elimates that theory. The reason why europe doesn’t have as many homicides is bc they don’t allow the tools to commit murder. Its that plain and simple, and thinking that some sort of millitia could form and destroy the largest army in the world is a poor weak argument also. Without guns we would not have to fear those with guns, bc they wouldn’t exsist.
Guns will ALWAYS exist. It’s too late to turn back the clock. So now what do we do?
People will always kill eachother. That’s what guns are for. I’m sure they do more bad than good and I bet we wouldn’t need them if they didn’t exsist.. America will live in fear bc we go around the world killing people the same way we do here. We are going to have to get rid of guns and stop killing people here if we want the same moral to stop killing people in other countries. War is a cruel part of life. Wheather it is at home or abroad. It’s the most real thing to believe in, so it becomes acceptable. The only thing to do is go out and get more guns to protect ourselves causing more deaths. The government even scares us about nuclear weapons when not a single warhead can destroy more than a 1 mile radius.. Nuclear weapons are a strategic weapon for taking out millitary bases. Only America would use it on civilians after fire bombing over a hundred major cities.
“Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds
Have no fear for atomic energy
‘Cause none of them can stop the time
How long shall they kill our profets
While we stand aside and look
Some say it’s just a part of it
We’ve got to fullfill the book”
- Bob Marley
My point is you can NOT get rid of guns. So, NOW what is the solution?
You can’t get rid of guns, just like you can’t stop war. You can only put restrictions on them.
What good do restrictions do? And, there is no such thing is restrictions on war. That concept is for people who sit at home WATCHING the war on t.v. in war people get tortured, raped, villages are burned down, children are butchered. If one does not accept this, one should NOT accept war. To say that this is unacceptable behavior in a war time scenario is to be ignorant of ALL of history. There has NEVER ..NOT EVER…been a war in which this did not occur on ALL sides.
Putting restrictions only hurt people. Lets think about it logically for a moment shall we. You put restrictions on guns and law abiding citizens have less access to them. However the criminals have no problem cuz they do things illegally so who has the advantage. If everyone has guns then people will be able to protect themselves. Accidents of course will happen however accidents happen with anything. I read a news article about how a 12 year old girl protected herself and her home from 2 murderous illegal aliens by using a shotgun. She had been educated to use it and she saved not only her life but possibly many other people’s as well. Maybe instead of restrictions we teach people how to better protect themselves while using a gun. Education should be the goal not restrictions.
Actually, people don’t have to get background checks or register weapons at gun shows. That is the kind of thing that needs restrictions. We also need restrictions on the cause for war. With the Bush Docterine, the president can invade any country he wants. We need “restrictions” or greater causes to be able to attack other countries.
The Bush doctrine is NOT that the President can attack any nation he wants. That was a decision that CONGRESS decided was a good idea. Remember that a DEMOCRATICALY controlled congress wrote Bush a blank check. Let’s lay the blame where it belongs. (on both parties) While I am not a Bush supporter, he did follow Constitutional guidelines in that he ASKED Congress for permission for war powers. Guess what? Congress GAVE IT TO HIM!
I know that. I was talking about preemptive war.
By the way in 1998 Clinton said it himself that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, will use them, and must be stopped.
First, as long as there are two humans on earth, one is going to want it all and try to kill the other.
Whichever society and historical age you ponder, weapons will always exist, right now it is more firearms than cold sharp steel.
Good luck in getting 100’s of millions of people to agree on and abide by “love thy neighbor, do no harm, etc”
Even the hippies of the 60’s could not resist kicking some ass now and then.
I’m sure the thousands of people being murdered by guns every year wish they had the pistol they owned on hand. And the few people who killed somebody in self defense wishes it would of never came to that.
If the government wants to destroy us, they will. The ones fighting back will be the first to die. How are our pistols and lack of stradegy going to destroy a well armed, well trained force? I’m sure they would have bullet proof armor or any kind of pre-historic weapon that could ensure our death and their safety. Are we gonna pull out our pistols when a tank runs over us?
The U.S. government has already destroyed you. It happend in 1913. Since then, the government has manipulated the whole community.
I’m certain that every society can be weapon free. It has to come by making good decisions. Americans will always have handguns. As we used to in Sweden as well, but that was a long time ago -later people would avoid guns.
Our monarch lost his power in 1973(but remains monarch) which contributed to a more trustful society. I would say, if a society is weapon free (except for military, police etc) then the crime rate would fall significantly.
Besides, the police are there to proect you, nonetheless weapons’ limits their capability to improve the situation. That’s however something you should think of.
The first time you feel cold hard fear and stare in the face of danger, you will wish you had a gun.
I guess you could call 911 but by the time the cops show up it will be a mop up operation.
The police are NOT there to protect you, they can’t possibly protect everyone. So, better to train your wife and children in safely handling firearms and be armed than to be the victim.
Amen,
Was a cop back when. We would race to a scene and protect any innocent, even to sacrifice ourselves. Too many did.
Now days, these officers know that the courts have given them a way out. They will not stand tall and protect unless its for another officer. Hell, it’s hard to get them to even answer most calls.
We are on our own, so do your best and be prepared to be treated like a criminal and undoubtedly arrested. Can anyone say “I want a lawyer”?
Such an interesting debate. I’ve only recently begun to pay attention to this and find that I’m blown away by the “fear” machine used by the anti-gun establishment. I don’t know about Sweden, but how about what’s happened in Australia? They took away the legal guns, and, hmm, crime rates, particularly w/weapons, has increased. And their politicians are baffled? Really?
The 2nd amendment is all about being prepared to defend it when the government tries to take it away. I was not a gun owner until a few months ago, but, believe me, I’m going to play catch-up as fast as I can, simply because this society is not safe. No one has the right to tell me how to ensure my safety unless I infringe on the rights of others. If I’m carrying a gun on me, how have I infringed on the rights of others? Now, if I wave it in the air and start threatening people, you have a point. If, however, I’m simply carrying it in a concealed manner and never have to use it, whose rights have I violated?
Besides, guns are cool…
Why do you say that since Australia enacted tough gun, laws that Australia has increased crime rates. The murder rate has droped, arm robbery has drop since 1996, and most other crimes has stayed around the same level. The only crimes that have significantly increased lately is assaults and that is not because of the gun laws, the increase in physical assaults has happen only in the last few years. And since stricter gun laws, there have been no more massacres like Port Arthur and Hoddle street.
I don’t know where you got the idea that Australia is more violent place to live since strict gun laws, but I get the feeling that its the misinformation that Charlton Heston and the NRA used to support their case against tougher gun laws in the U.S. It is obscene that they would use a tragedy in Australia to further their own ends.
Australia is not a country living in fear since very stict gun laws 1996. I know, I live in Australia.
If you look at the demographics of Sweden you’ll understand why you have the lowest crime rate in the world. I’m jealous of you but here we have urban centers so inflamed with ‘diversity’ that it doesn’t take much to light them off. Hell, look at Iceland. The entire economy collapses overnight and not a single riot. Their demographics closely match yours. Here, you just wait until our so wonderful diverse populations hear they’re not getting their welfare checks. We’ve had cities burned and people killed over court cases. Say what you want if you want to be politically correct but that’s reality.
Every empire eventually falls. The US has failed already. What the government might try to do next in desperation remains to be seen. But the Constitution guarantees our right to protect ourselves. Anybody who choses to entrust their safety fully to others is a sheep.
A handgun is a tool that can be concealed that is used to kill people. That’s right, kill people. I’ve carried a pistol for over 20 years and never have had to even pull my weapon thank God. But I could and would if my own or somebody else’s life was threatened. That’s reality and sometimes it’s necessary. Those of you who wish to “live in a world without fear” have had the wool pulled over your eyes. Grow up and look around. Take some responsibility for yourself and others. The world can be a savage and violent place. It was a savage and violent place long before firearms even existed. Concealed weapons in the hands of trained law abiding people like myself make you safer. Whatever your feelings about guns might be, I would risk my own life to save yours.
Take care and hug your families this Christmas season. This next year is going to be a rough one for everyone.
“Concealed weapons in the hands of trained law abiding people like myself make you safer. Whatever your feelings about guns might be, I would risk my own life to save yours.”
Ken Freeman, Thanks for the offer, but I don’t trust your aim. Please don’t pull out your concealed weapon near me or my children (even if you think we might be in danger).
say that when someone has you in their site’s.
Also a retired l.e. and would proudly stand shoulder to shoulder with you against any attacker.
God bless and keep you and yours safe.
Again, going after law abiding citizens will NOT solve anything. It will only give criminals greater advantage. Bans on handguns and concealed weapons will only affect the law abiding. The criminal element cares less what laws exist. They don’t follow them anyway. There IS no argument for passing laws to ban guns. It is a ridiculous presumption only the irrational would promote. Criminals are the only non-governmental element who would possess weapons. How stupid is that? Too bad the concept is so difficult to grasp for some. Keep your hands off the Second Amendment!! Give up your your socialist Utopian dreams and face reality. What idiot would willingly make himself more vulnerable? Read your history. Nations became tyrannical dictatorships soon after confiscating the people’s weapons. Not in America. Thank you.
If guns don’t contribute to the United States having the second highest murder rate in the world, than there is something else really messed up with our country that we wont be able to fix.. We should outlaw pistols and concealed weapons. What need do we have to hide our weapons in order to use them for self defense? A shotgun would help just as much.. So we should keep weapons off the street and out of the hands of murderers by outlawing small concealed weapons.
If we outlawed handguns people would complain that the murderers already have their weapons.. Well handgun bullets would be outlawed also. Our next generation of children could live adults in a peaceful country without fear. Now thats liberty and freedom and should be mandated by the government to protect our god given rights.
Kinda missing the major point. Gun control only controls and emasculates the innocent law abiding citizentry. Criminals don’t give a rat’s *** and will get their illegal guns anyway they can. And they will carry (and this will shock you) without obtaining a legal permit!!!
Cops are minutes to hours away, military are days to weeks away. How long can you bleed and still survive? How about your wife and children?
Go ahead and take all the bullets in America, guess how the illegal gun/ammo traders will supply the criminals? Very well and on time as well.
Even without firearms, criminals will turn to knives (which they already use) or clubs. Should we get a head start and outlaw all knives (including butter knives), baseball bats, steel toed boots, broom handles (oh wait, Hitler did that and it worked quite nicely for him), etc.?
The government is still missing the big picture. Stop targeting the innocent citizens and clamp down on the criminals. Give them a good and final reason to change their line of work.
In my country, Sweden, the population is disarmed. We have one of the lowest crime rate in the world. Even though our government is strong in terms of state-owned companies, military and so forth. We have been netural and self-sustained for more than 200 years without being aggressive.
I don’t believe in arming the population. It would only cause more crime and violence. Criminals are being able to have guns whenever they feel like. In America, 11,000 people get killed by shootings each year. I think it’s a bad decision for people to carry weapons in terms of being protected. The only ones who should carry weapons are the military, police and others who are able to handle guns. We live in a civilized society. There’s no chance these people would be overrun by their government.
Nonetheless, Americans live in another situation. 60% of the population never visit other countries. 35 million are poor, 50 million uninsured, the crime rates are at very high levels and your government is corrupt.
Please, I would like to know if I’m wrong. I hope I am.
At the beginning of a home invasion, you may have 10 seconds to react (usually from a sound sleep). Grab a gun and hope to live, grab the phone and die before the 911 operator answers. Don’t worry, in America, the cops will get over in 30 minutes to 2 hours, no rush! They have lots of chaulk for the body outlines!!
I have a permit to carry, am a retired policeman and would not think of going outside any more without protection for my wife and me. I am locked and loaded 24/7. Pray constantly that I’ll never need it.
Your society sound idillyic, but laws have to fit each individual society’s needs and problems. America, is great, proud of it and would never want to be anything else but American; but, we do have lots of criminals who just don’t care about anyone else. They will kill you for a dollar, rape your wife or daughter for fun, boredom or racial hatred, and kill you for your car just because they don’t have one.
Your are right on about our corrupt gov. leaders; but then again, so are most of the other nations’ leadership.
The gov and media work together to sell us bs. I am amazed so many buy into their lies. Gun control will never work, It will only lead to more innocent deaths. If the day comes for martial law, the confiscation of weapons will shortly follow, they will say it is for our own safety. After that you will be at the mercy of not only local predators, but also an out of control government. Who knows to what lengths they will go to totally destroy our constitution. I ask you do not give up your right to bear arms, even if it means death. Some things are worse than death!!!!!!
Criminals, at least felons, are already barred from owning or even possessing a gun. That does not however, keep them from getting their hands on them. These guys don’t want guns for self defense that’s for sure but rather to give themselves an advantage for acting out their own aggressive narcissistic tendencies. As long as I can legally own and possess a gun, I can come much nearer to defending myself and family and my property in case I am ever a victim of theirs.
The argument to make gun ownership illegal is the most ignorant lie being debated. There is no debate. You make responsible citizens vulnerable to every form of violence when you force them to relinquish their rights and means of self defense.
When there is no police handy and a threat is eminent against family or property, I certainly want a deterrent equal to the threat at my disposal. I don’t want to entertain the idea of waiting for a police response after the fact while I stare at the pools of blood of my wife or children and wish I could have done something to prevent it. You anti-gun people can offer them a hug if you want. I don’t think that’s what they’re after and they probably will turn down your offer anyway.
We’re a long way from considering the federal government or the forces at their disposal any sort of threat to ourselves en mass. There will be no huge bloody revolution. Their violence against citizens is more subtle and isolated. It is also protected by “laws” that fly in the face of the Constitution. You have no real defense against that unless you want a Ruby Ridge indecent happening at your own front door. But I am not nearly as concerned about defending myself against the government as I am about the lunatics that roam the streets in search of victims.
If there ever was a revolution, I would certainly throw my support behind the ideals of liberty and individual freedom as would the majority of thinking adults. The sheeple will simply watch in horror and accept whatever unfolds, even absolute despotism if that were the outcome. They certainly wouldn’t participate because they don’t have a clue about what is really happening anyway. Those who do understand what is at stake want the Second Amendment left intact not only for individual protection against criminals but to hopefully insure that the government doesn’t get too bold.
Sir,
I sincerely wish we were neighbors!!! I’m surrounded by sheeply who want someone else to handle the emergencies, don’t bother them with details and will turn you in to save themselves without a second thought.
Still looking for a neighborhood or community filled with patriots like us.
God bless and good luck.
Obama trying to reassure Americans he “won’t disarm us”…said the spider to the fly. The government is getting very nervous about escalating gun sales since Obama and his fellow communists garnered the majority control of congress. You just watch, they are already trying to justify using military personnel for “catastrophes” and the like. I said it over a year ago that the government would have us eating dog food.
If they come for your guns by God, give them the ammo first.
I’m one of the last remaining employed 39 year old financial “experts” (don’t hate me!) and watching this complete collapse of our economy devolve over the past few years has been a humbling experience. For the first time I’m understanding the extent of the corruption in our government and financial systems. It’s easy now to see the control the mainstream media has over the bulk of our citizens. It’s terrifying really and blatantly obvious once you learn to see. Maybe it’s my job but I can tell you that this economy isn’t coming back for a long time, at least not as something we’d recognize.
I’d never owned a firearm of any kind until last year. I’ve since been training whenever I can with my family and friends and now we have enough arms and training to give most offenders a serious problem.
We’re also stocking up food and other supplies for civil unrest and it just feels so surreal. I’m not a religious man at all but I still pray my children won’t have to go through what I feel is coming. I hope I’m wrong.
The question was raised before what can a .45 and an AR-15 do against our own government as it turns against us. When the IRS comes to collect the 10 trillion dollars they just stole from my kids with the threat of imprisonment they’ll find out. This is a good article I found. It’s a little long-winded and a bit Christian oriented but sums it up nicely. Just remember it’s not the weapon, it’s the will. Never give up an inch, ever.
http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/07/vanderboegh-handgun-against-army-ten.html
I enjoy reading the articles at the website of The Objective Standard and realize that many CFL members would likely enjoy them as well:
http://theobjectivestandard.com/sample-articles.asp
Check it out and consider their offer of a free copy.
After all we are involved in a battle of ideas and intellectual ammunition is necessary. Let me know what you think.
When the crime ’stops’, you should still keep your guns. Weapons owned by civilians are not just for protection from criminals. They, in great part, hold in check the attempts of our own goverment to overstep it’s bounds and attack it’s own citizens. Think it can’t happen here? Don’t fool yourselves. Study history closely. Be vigiliant, educated, healthy, and keep the will of the warrior spirit alive that created this country. Once that will is gone then this country too will cease to exist.
I can’t understand why people insist in bringing up issues unrelated to gun control in their arguments like civil right, women’s right to vote, etc. Stick to the topic. Gun control does not work, periiod. If it did D.C. would be the safest city in the country. It is, instead, one of the most dangerous cities in the country. Most gun crimes are committed by ILLEGALY obtained guns, not legally obtained guns. When the crime stops, I’ll give up my gun, but not before then.
@Irish: Check the facts: women got the right to vote due to a constitutional amendment, not due to activist judges. The civil rights movement also achieved most of its success due to laws and constitutional amendments, not judical activism (hmmm… Civil Rights Act of 1964 – was that a ruling). And while yes, limits on freedom of speech are allowed, this is very, very limited in its scope. You can say that Bush/Obama or anyone else is a cocksucker, and the government can’t punish you for it. So reasonably, criminals ought to be barred from owning weapons, but not lawful citizens who play by the rules (and yes, this includes handguns and automatic weapons).
It baffles me how soft, pink, weak, and numb the average American sheeple has become is such a very short amount of time.
“To say that keeping a .45 in your drawer, or an ar-15 in your gun safe is going to prevent the US Armed forces, the single most equipped fighting force ever assembled, from taking your rights is beyond laughable”
What the Hell kind of pathetic logic is that? If it comes down to it, god forbid, at least you have a shot in doing so. Rolling over and playing the role of the willing soft pink sheeple should be unthinkable! How horrified would our founding fathers be to see what we’ve become. Educate and protect yourselves and your families as best as you can.
How every day “BILLIONS” of dollars are STOLEN from you and your children by a government totally unconcerned with what it’s citizens want. OPEN your eyes and see how dangerous this game has become. We’re on the edge of the abyss here and people are questioning if we really need guns?
WAKE UP!
First they came for the guns, and I said nothing because I was not a gun owner.
Then they came for the tazers, and I said nothing because I had no tazers.
Then they came for came for my silverware:
http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Thanks_Government_I_Feel_So_Much_Safer_At_Night_PIC
and I said nothing because I was still permitted chopsticks.
Then they came for me, and by that time there was nothing left
to defend myself with.
-Martin Niemöller, perhaps, if he was alive today and seeing the progression of the police state.
[...] Paul discusses his thoughts on Gun Control Nice when a politician gets it… http://www.ronpaul.com/2008-12-09/ron-paul-on-gun-control/ Published [...]
Regardless of your position in this debate, the fact remains that the 2nd amendment has not been repealed. It’s sad that we have to defend our Constitution by people who want to circumvent our laws by using an activist judicial system.
The same “smart” people who thought that our monetary system shouldn’t be based on Constitutional money got their way in 1913, and ever since the gap between rich and poor has become enormous.
Jefferson, Franklin, etc., were a lot smarter than any of our current politicians, and to blow off some of what they say (2nd amendment) while agreeing with other parts (1st amendment) is something the unlearned do every day.
Were it not for an “activist judicial system”, it would still be illegal in parts of this country for blacks and whites to go to school together, for interracial couples to marry, and for women to vote. When our laws circumvent basic principles of fairness and compassion, then they themselves should be circumvented.
To blow off the 2nd amendment while adhering to the first would be ludicrous. As would giving complete free reign to either. There are limits to the rights granted by the first amendment (yelling “fire” in a movie theater for free speech, polygamy for freedom of religion, libel for freedom of press, etc.), why should there not be reasonable limits on the rights granted in the second amendment? The framers showed consistently that their fear of a tyrannical government or foreign invasion was the purpose of this amendment. If someone, anyone would be able to show how this purpose is achieved with handguns and automatic weapons, I would be more than willing to hear it.
To say that keeping a .45 in your drawer, or an ar-15 in your gun safe is going to prevent the US Armed forces, the single most equipped fighting force ever assembled, from taking your rights is beyond laughable. To what end, then, do we allow the continued legality and existence of that kind of weaponry among our citizens?
Truth be told, I am not a gun owner, nor do I plan on becoming one. HOWEVER, the combined manpower of EVERY branch of the US military combined is around 1 Million people. The number of REGISTERED (let’s not count OUT the ones who are not registered) as owning a HANDGUN..(the one firearm that almost every state requires a registration for) is OVER 100 Million people. So, though the US Armed Forces may have superior firepower, they are outnumbered by 100 to 1. In a war of attrition the citizenry would most definitely win out.
This is not even taking into account surveys done that show well over half the men and women enlisted in the US Armed Services would refuse a command to fire on American Citizens.
I am personaly a pacifist, but I do know a faulty, un researched argument when I see one.
The Fact is, while I may personaly be a pacifist, I have NO right telling anyone else they can not own a weapon to defend themself….or for ANY other reason so long as they cause no harm or injury to another person. At which point the ownership of a weapon is moot because they will have indeed committed a crime in harming another human being.
Yes, while the Armed Forces IS outnumbered by gun-owners, gun-owners aren’t trained to fight. They aren’t out-fitted with superior technology. And in the event of a coup d’etat-like full-on riot, the military would have to shoot.
Just as you can’t yell “fire” in a theatre, you can’t shoot your neighbor. That’s called murder. There are already laws against murder.
Just because I have a gun, does that mean I am a murderer? Or shall we silence your voice so you won’t yell “Fire”.
Suppose there really is a fire? By all means yell, fire!
Suppose I am the subject of a home invasion? By all means, shoot to kill!
Irish wrote:
“Were it not for an ‘activist judicial system,’ it would still be illegal in parts of this country for blacks and whites to go to school together, for interracial couples to marry, and for women to vote.”
That’s absolute crap. You have absolutely no way to prove such nonsense. Perhaps it would have taken a longer amount of time, but what you wrote is patently false.
“When our laws circumvent basic principles of fairness and compassion, then they themselves should be circumvented.” And there’s legal constitutional ways of doing so.
Useless dribble.
“Putting more guns out there can only result in more people getting shot.”
First off, that is inaccurate. Second of all, I’m not concerned about whether more people get shot. Just whether the right people get shot.
I do not car if rapists, murderers, muggers, or despots get shot. I do care about whether fathers, mothers and children, whether good citizens, whether I or those I love – get shot!
Guns aren’t the problem, it’s bullets (…and misuse by certain incautious people)
Putting more guns out there can only result in more people getting shot.
#1. Where did he say in the article that we should put more guns out there?
#2. Do you think a criminal is more likely to ( A.) Pull a gun out and rob a dozen unarmed people or ( B.) Pull a gun out and rob a dozen armed people? Lets be smart now.
Even giving you that point (which I don’t as Dan argues about deterrent above) at least some of the people being shot will be the ones instituting the violence. “He who lives by the sword….”
Okay Stupid. You be the first to put a big sign on your front door which says “We do not believe in guns. NO guns in this home,” and see how long it is before you get robbed or shot by a criminal with an illegal gun!!!!