137 responses to “Ron Paul to Congress: End the Fed”

  1. Clyde Brown

    It's sad that instead of talking about the value of this proposal and what it would take to actually give it some legs, Sean turns the conversation into one about oil, and not being able to resist the easy target, others spend their posts responding to his off-subject argument.

    To that point though (I too become guilty of the above), Sean, I don't want my tax dollars spent on "cheap renewable energy". The government has very clear functions (pass laws, enforce them, protect homeland security), of which energy production is not one(or health care, schooling, highways,automobile, etc.). That being said the government should enforce my right to clean air above my property ( if I choose to sue). The market handles all of the above much more efficiently. And besides "Capitalism is the only system that protects human-rights"(Ayn Rand)

    We have to call our congressmen and women and demand they consider this proposal. Does anyone know when it will come to the floor for a vote?

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  2. Amy

    Amen! Should have been done a long time ago!

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  3. Robert Hillman

    For ten years I have been saying this right along with Ron

    and everyone said OH your crazy

    the federal reserve made the depression not so bad

    and and and

    what a crock and people are stupid

    the income tax is illegal

    you say you made ten grand and they take two

    YOU DIDNT make ten you made eight

    so get rid of income tax and you make ten

    pretty simple isnt it

    screw the irs

    the irs is illegal and they KNOW IT

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  4. Kim

    I had no idea who you (Ron Paul) were except in photos until just 2 days ago. Ron Paul did not create libertarian/true capitalist policy. Lao Tzu did that a few millenia back. Ron Paul should be credited for being one of the few who actually speak it & for the guts to do it. I am sorry that I did not vote for you last year (I did not vote for anyone). If there is a presidency for 2012, you will have my support.

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  5. Sean

    Talk about evolution.. We are just in a time frame, there are different ages in history for all advancements in life. Thats all life is, is an advancement. Its getting from one day to the the next with the best security and technology available. Throughout history, population seems to grow and has evened out in most modern civializations. There have been uprisings in all countries all over the world.. We catagorize the ages of time and the prosperity of life at which occured. Such as the bronze age, the heroic age, the dark ages, the renaissance etc.. Evolution occurs, population grows vastly as people become more adapted to their surroundings. Information piles on top of information causing evolution to occur faster and faster from each advancement to the next.. I guess you can see where i'm going with this. Although many would claim that we are in an age of computers and great technology, I beg to differ. We are still in the industrial revoultion and we havn't begun to understand the technology that is to come.. We are facing neo evolution. Oil is running out, there is only so much oil to energy percentage available. America started running out of oil in the sixties as have 30 other countries.. The age of oil is comming to an end. This period of evolution could only last so long as we see the time of ages decrease as evolution occurs faster and faster. There will be covered up wars, there will be famine and disease. But despite all the killing and deaths, there will be good comming from this evolution transition phase. From one age to the another people have suffered to get to that revolution. There have been wars, but the wars never really seem to solve anything. It is always the ones who emerge from the passion from wars and struggle to alarm the public of whats really going on in their lives and what needs to be done. This isn't just a banking problem. That is just the outer layor to this mass economic system we call capitalism. We can call the banking system the body. Well resources and goods would be the heart to the system. We need healthy vital signs in order to maintain a healthy body. It doesn't matter what color we are, it doesn't matter what banking system we have. As long as we have to rely on other countries for resources and cannot provide any of our own. We will not have healthy capitalism. We need to stand up, alert the public so this transition phase from one age to the next wont drag out and cause so many problems.

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    1. Sean

      We don't want to force transition into anyones lives, but we do want to make it available. Everyone should want our hard earned tax dollars going towards something productive. That should be a no brainer. We don't want our tax dollars prolonging this transition with wars and economic troubles. We want cheap renewable resources. This wont occur until one of two things happen. 1. We inform the public of the harms of our oil consumption so we can have a massive demand for alternative fuels too create the market. 2. We use our tax dollars to build alternative fuels and so we can do this transition together and participate in revolution as a country, as america...

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      1. Sean

        We should not want to do this for the republicans, we should not want to do this for the democrats, or for the central banks.. We should do this for us. We should do this for American's. We the people should have the ability to be informed about our problems so we the people can stand up and fight instead of spliting up the country with different ideologies to mask the problem.

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  6. Sean

    I know what i'm talking about. You all seem to not understand a thing about money.. its sooooooooooo simple to understand and its soo difficult for you all..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-vMxKvYfVs

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  7. Ron Paul to Congress: End the Fed « The Place I’ll Return To, Someday

    [...] Febrero 7, 2009 por Fernando Amaya Dalmasso Ron Paul to Congress: End the Fed [...]

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  8. Dick Dixon

    Browse through any topic on this website, and you will see the pattern this rats leave...

    Every topic ends in confusion by most people, since a lot of people are still not educated about the truth, since TV lies 24/7 and forces the wrong views upon the population...

    These rats are definitely getting paid, this is a full time job to distract people from the truth... by spamming sites like this with useless and meaningless garbage...

    Usually when you see a very long and leghty comment with bunch of numbers, percents, statistics, etc... skip it, it's garbage posted by the rat team.

    Do not even read it or reply, ignore it altogether.

    D. Dixon.

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    1. Red Wine

      People!
      None of us know it all. Debate properly, however.
      1. Leave out insults, they reflect frustration on your part, and you always have the option of not responding to a failed, repetitive argument.
      2. Encourage reading material that you feel may benefit the opposing party.
      3. Reinforce the points we all agree on, from time to time. This will make it possible to come to a consensus on points not in contention. This is progress.
      For my part, I will offer this:
      1. "Secrets of the Temple" by William Greider is a very good book on the history of the Fed. It is not an attack on the Fed., but after reading, you will probably conclude, we do NOT need the Fed. It IS a part of government, and we CAN abolish it.
      2. "The Secret History of the American Empire" by John Perkins gives a little insight on why the world doesn't like us very much, but fears us nonetheless.
      3. "The Elite Serial Killers of Lincoln, JFK, RFK, and MLK." by Robert Gaylon Ross, Sr. for an interesting read on how far the enemy will go to keep control of our money supply. Conspiratorial, big picture kind of stuff.
      What are you reading?

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  9. Dick Dixon

    Someone please ban this rat "Sean" and his rat teammates...

    If you start arguing with them, you will waste your time...

    They are here only with one purpose, to throw people off the subject matter and to taint the name of Ron Paul with meaningless crap... loads of it.

    Please ban this rat and his teammates.

    Thank you.

    D. Dixon.

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    1. Nate D

      Yeah I realized that now, thanks. I wouldn't be surprised if they are paid to do this.

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  10. Sean

    Its whatever, you can continue to think that we dont need to keep printing money to pay for our 38 billion a month gas fee. Thats just your judgment.. You can even think that we can aford to give away 38 billion dollars worth of our gold every month. Thats ok; If you think so. We'll also give 40 billion a month worth of our gold to asia for foreign goods as a bonus. I'm sure we could just replace that gold with what scarce gold we can find.

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    1. Sean

      we can just be their slaves and keep mining gold and silver and then handing it to asia and saudi arabia. That makes perfect sense. Lets enslave our whole country.

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      1. Nate D

        Arguing with you is pointless. The community was right about you. You are just a rat here to flood these threads with nonsense. Check your facts dude, you and all you buddies rats! Go get a life.

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        1. Sean

          i have a nice life. :) i was a local dj for 5 years. i've traveled to music festivals all over the country. I went to California 3 times, Miami twice, New Mexico, Las Vegas, and new orleans 4 times for music festivals all before i turned 20.. Now I play the guitar and i am a mechanical engineer. i'm finishing my bachoelrs of science in construction business.. I used to take classes that didn't count for my major like philosophy and english history bc i'm facinated with the evolution of culture.. I can find time inbetween here and there for a nice chat.

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        2. Sean

          check your facts...

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-vMxKvYfVs

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          1. Nate D

            Which is why money is so useless? It is a terrible system and we have to abolish the fed. Anyone who disagrees is entitled to their opinion.

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          2. Sean

            this illustration supports all monetary theory.. its the way of living that is the problem. Not the fed.. We should get rid of the fed, but thats not going to be near enough. That wont fix anything.

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          3. Sean

            ending the fed isn't going to fix our trade deficit. We are still going to have to borrow money to run our american empire..

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  11. Nate D

    I hope our economy crashes and crashes hard, cause that is the only way people like you will wake up.

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    1. Sean

      and you think going back to a gold standard is going to help?? please, you don't even know whats going on.

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  12. Sean

    to be upset over what you don't have is a waste of what you do have.

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  13. Light

    I support this legislation. From what ive read, it is the Federal Reserves ability to loan money to our government and then charge exorbant interest rates that is the main issue. This is how the Fed cartel, central bank, international bankers, make their money, off the interest from the loans to the government. Every man, woman, and child owes like 30 thousand dollars to the government to repay the trillions of dollars that the Fed has loaned the government. Furthermore, there is no transparency, I like transparency, and defending our own nation, not pre-emptive wars using deception that turn out to be lies to take a nation to war. Anyways, ive also read that Neo-cons hire agents to deflect conversations away from the main issue, abolishing the Federal Reserve, an act for which, Abe Lincoln, JFK, Ronald Reagan and many others have had violence used against them for attempting to reveal. This is not about energy, or imports/exports, this is about loaning 9 trillion dollars arbitrarily to a government and then forcing the people of that government to repay the loan at 30% interest. It is a corrupt and dishonest practice. An honest money system, which is backed by the peoples ability to repay loans, for reasonable amounts, determined by the majority, at reasonable interest rates is a more modest and decent approach than this illegal and deceptive money cartel.

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    1. Sean

      The federal reserve is a non-profit organization...

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      1. Nate D

        LOL, Hahahahahahahahaha. Did you find that on their website? WOW! Way to debunk everything he said. Prop to Light for shutting him up

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        1. Sean

          This isn't about the trade deficit??? You should read one of MANY articles the Federal reserve has written warning us abouut our trade deficit. You should learn about the effects of outragous trade deficits.. THe federal reserve raised interest rates to 7% not 30% to slow down the devaluation of the dollar. If it wasn't for the fed, our monetary system would have collapsed a long time ago. If we stuck with the gold standard, saudi arabia would own the majority of our gold.

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          1. Sean

            and the federal reserve is a non profit organization. they give all the extra money after expenses to help fund the treasury department. I got that from an encyclopedia.. The money the fed collects is to try and slow down the growth and demand for oil because rising prices would cause hyperinflation destroying investments, and eventually lead us to outstanding trade deficits which it did acomplish

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      2. Nate

        This is maybe the finest example of absurdity I've ever read.

        You got it backwards again...hyperinflation causes out of control prices. Not the other way around.

        The Fed in a non-profit organization!? ahahahaha

        In related news, AIDS is a cure, compassion is a vice, alcohol is a sobering agent, marijuana is a deadly drug, and stealing is a virtue.

        Well I'm gonna go ride my dragon. See you all in Narnia!

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        1. Nate D

          Here is another good quote from the smart old Sean. "the federal reserve... give all the extra money after expenses to help fund the treasury department".
          Maybe you should look at these two organizations and see how they do business with each other. They real buddy buddy.

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          1. Sean

            ya they are, thats why we will never get rid of the fed. bc the government benfifits off of them. and they are smarter about money than our government. so we tend to leave the money part up to our smart bankers, not our stupid politicians.

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        2. Sean

          well, if gas prices got too expensive, than they would have to print excess money. And thats what causes hyperinflation, or out of control prices.. You didn't think that thru.
          I don't know how many federal reserve members you actually know or have studied, but they are all very good nice people. They benifit with good salary, they don't just capture all the money and are money gods.. muahahaha. You watch too much tv. Come on now, they are regular people who were ELECTED to be bankers. Every action they make is voted on. Its more organized than you think. I imagine everyone here watches conspiracy films.. I have like 20 of them in my closet. I have both zeitgesit movies.. I have documentaries on the bilderburg group, on foreign relations, i even have documentaries on our founding fathers, what a republic is supposed to be.. I've seen all sides to the story. I know the evils that were around a hundred years ago, but wake up seriously. THis CARTEL that everyone imagines when they watch those video's is generations old.. Fiat currency and central bank practicies are scientificly proven to work. ALL COLLEGE professors STUDY and teach these methods. The same professors will tell you that the problem is our trade deficit, but i guess you never went to college or studied business.

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          1. Nate

            You went too far with this one. It's now obvious you're nothing more than a troll. I'm quite happy it'll now be so easy to ignore your nonsensical posts.

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          2. Sean

            dont be upset because your being educated.

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    2. Sean

      actually, every man woman and child only has to pay 2% out of our taxes for the deficit. Your taxes will not increase bc the country grows and collects more money from taxes year after year... You talk about wars.. what do you think the war in iraq was for?? In 1999 saudi arabia thought they were going to run out of oil soon, so we attacked iraq for reserves.. In late august the prices of gas went down right after 30 countries tapped into iraqs oil supply.. Dafur removed the people from the south and commited genocide for their oil.. One of hitlers first places to take over was the largest oil producing land at the time.. And you need to learn what the deficit really is. Read any of my earlier posts on investments and bonds to find out the benifits that people recieve.. 64% of our National deficit are investments called savings bonds that people invest into instead of their 401k. 64% of this debt you think the government owes the fed is actually investments that everyday people with jobs have made with great rewards. Since people save money, the deficit naturally grows larger. Savings bond investments have doubled in the past 10 years.

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      1. Sean

        well interest fee's make up 20% of our taxes, but that number will not raise, its actually lowered and gotten better with the growth of the population and gdp. Its actually alot less than that now and our deficit is going to slow down some bc they lowered the interest rates for return on treasury bonds.

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  14. Nate D

    So what is your solution genius? Because we all have no clue what to do. At least we have solutions, all you keep saying is that we spend to much on oil. Okay we get it already, but I already gave you a solution to that. Plus I don't think anyone cares what you have to say, I just like to help those who don't like to think outside of the box :)

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    1. Sean

      changing the monetary system isn't going to fix our trade balance. those solutions wont work. I actually would invest a great deal of this stimulus package on natural gas pumps. I would invest the rest in wind power, geothermal, and perpetual energy so we can reinvent our energy methods. Thats actually thinking outside the box.

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      1. Nate

        See these are the most dangerous arguments. The ones that sound good but take too much time to unpack and destroy.

        Best thing to do is let the unhampered free market decide what is our best source of energy. I think it likely it wouldn't be oil for very long if the free market was allowed to function.

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        1. Sean

          the free market wont do it fast enough. the free market usually invests in cheaper energy.. every day is like the day before. Same day at the office. Dependable old fasion work. we have trade deficits bankrupting america.. ok lets blow this off. It is the cause for the problem but its not important..

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          1. Sean

            we tend to go by the books instead of writting the books..

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          2. Nate

            Exactly wrong about the free market stifling innovation. That is governments job. Correct that trade deficits are problematic. Yet you fail to see that central banking and fiat money allow sustained and enormous trade deficits to occur.

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          3. Sean

            so your saying we will stop purchasing gas if we went back to a hard currency?

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      2. Nate D

        LOL, sorry, but these types of energies have been around for decades, in fact I think I told you about them earlier today. Sorry dude, but people like you are the reason we are in the situation we are in today. You really have no clue what you are arguing now. You keep going in circles. I wish we could help you but you are already brainwashed into thinking this way.

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        1. Sean

          theyve been around but most of our energy is ran from coal. What about natural gas pumps? that was my major investmnet. Obama is going to invest in these energy resources like i mentioned, these and clean coal which is okay also. Whatever, the point is, ending the fed wont help the crisis we're in. So i promise the bill wont pass.

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          1. Nate D

            Ending the fed won't help... based on what? your opinion, an article you found, what? You say this with such confidence. Who cares about natural gas, we need innovation, not another depletable source. Have you herd of fuel cells? How about HHO gas? There are hundreds of alternative fuels. Go to sciencedaily.com and learn a few things.

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          2. Sean

            ok hho gas, whatever.. I know our problem is the trade deficit. Thats the major problem nobody can address.

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          3. Nate D

            I was using the two examples to show the complex and simple. Why not HHO gas? It is hydrogen and oxygen which are both very flammable, people are already use these to reduce their gas consumption by 15% or more. What are you contributing? You say oil is the main reason for the deficit, or did you forget that was your first argument. I think you need take a much closer look at the money system.

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          4. Sean

            what? i never said oil wasn't the main problem for the trade deficit. I know what HHO gas is. You can buy home kits and put them in yourself. I was wanting to do it for fun when gas got so expensive.. You didn't think this thru though... Alot of the western states are in fear of running out of water. Your just going to speed up that process.

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          5. Sean

            and i have no idea what your talking about 15% less gas consumption.. is that by country, or city? I know we have already moved onto natural gas pumps. They have thousands of pumps all over the country. Most city offical's cars run off natural gas. Natural gas is the only means of combustion that would move an 18 wheeler.. Really we just need electric cars. Thats also old technology. Its been around over 10 years

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  15. Sean

    The treasury usually promises 50% of face value on bonds after 15 years or so from collecting interest.. That interest collected comes from around 2-5% of our income tax dollars... Thats a good investment for little the cost. Its what keeps our monetary system going.

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  16. Sean

    American's switch over there 401k into savings bonds(national deficit).. As of 2009, regular working american's have invested 6.4 trillion dollars in bonds or our debt, because it can be a very wise investment. So over half our deficit comes from the incomes of hard working people. It is just natural that the deficit will rise as more savings get put in. Savings bonds doubled in the past 10 years because it is considered as a safe haven for money...

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  17. Sean

    The saving investments or the deficit or treasury securities really dont just depend on the value of the dollar... You compare the dollar to gdp. When there is dollar is weak and gdp is high, you really want to invest. When the dollar is weak and gdp is low, its a bad decision to invest in treasuries.

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  18. Sean

    as long as the value of the dollar doesn't drop, the investment is good.. For those who are worry about the dollar, there are inflation risk free bonds.. The reason the dollars been losing value is bc of our trade deficit and oil makes up 50% of our deficit. So thats our problem.

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    1. Nate

      There's no such thing as risk free anything when it comes to investments. Gold, silver, agriculture, and oil are looking pretty damn good at the moment though.

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      1. Sean

        "Inflation-indexed bonds (also known as inflation-linked bonds or colloquially as linkers) are bonds where the principal is indexed to inflation. They are thus designed to cut out the inflation risk of an investment."-wiki

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        1. Nate

          I don't care what they're DESIGNED to do. Completely eliminating risk from an investment is an impossibility. Especially when you have governments and central banks lying about the rate of inflation. Remember, inflation is an expansion in the supply of money/credit.

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          1. Sean

            The return value on bonds is adjusted to the CPI, the consumer price index which is the way to mesure inflation, or the rise in general level of prices of goods and services.. They guarantee you that money. This is paid for out of like 2% of our tax dollars.

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  19. Nate

    It is very difficult to debate with Sean because he operates with the wrong definition of inflation. Anyway...

    "we haven’t printed enough money to pay for our trade imbalances."

    This is an impossibility. Imports have to be paid for with exports. You can't just print money to pay trade imbalances. It doesn't work like that. Sure you can fool people for a while (and the gov/fed have) but eventually the other countries say enough is enough. This is why I stated that it appears you think Money = Wealth. Because you do!

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    1. Nate D

      agreed! Wealth is somehow associated with money, it's sad we think this way.

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    2. Sean

      You should check out our trade deficit. This means that we import this much more than we export.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USTrade1991-2005.png

      There are plenty of Federal Reserve hearings to the government and published articles from the Federal Reserve warning us of our trade deficit. Alan Greenspan Warned President Bush. There was nothing he could do so he said he welcomed the trade deficit and said it would balance itself out.

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    3. Sean

      again, you should read up on savings bonds.. Warren Buffet has 100% of his net worth invested in the deficit. You know why??? because thats one of the best investments you can make.. My grandfather was an insurance accountant for 50 years and he always invested in saving bonds.. Other countries make alot of their money off our bonds so they like to keep there money invested in the deficit. That plus the better investment saving bonds are 30 year contracts, so they can't just take there money back. MOst of those who make money off it chose to rollover their bonds when time elapses... Just sign new contracts.

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  20. Dick Dixon

    Someone please ban this rat “Sean” and his rate teammates.

    Thanks.

    D. Dixon

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  21. Dick Dixon

    Someone please ban this rat “Sean”.

    Thanks.

    D. Dixon

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    1. Sean

      ban me? because i'm right? because i'm the only person who actually knows what they are talking about? this is the reason why nobody knows about our problem, because the media "bans" this type of knowledge. Your trying to replace truth with ignorance. If not, i would like to hear oppsing statements. I'm a very nice person and would love to debate friendly about these things. Calling people names is just immature. I understand that most of the people on this web page are young, but I was under impression the that they were grown up. If you can't handle a debate, than please step out of our conversation and let us be. I have the same rights to be here as you, please respect me as I would love to treat you with the same.

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  22. Sean

    ok, first of all.. The fed sets interest rates and controls the supply of money. The interest rates effect exchange rates, or the value of the dollar.. This is a tool to combat core inflation. This is very important to stabalizing our money.. The fed uses precausions to control our spending thru the supply of money.. This is the same exact theory behind the gold standard, to control spending and save the value of the dollar... The problem is that we have to spend money on gas because its how the economy functions, so we have to create and spend money in order to keep everything working. Driving to work; delivering goods etc.. Well we keep trying to save the value of the dollar and control spending, but its really out of control. Its gotten out of hand for any monetary system.. If we went back to the gold standard, we would limit the amount of cash being put into the economy and too much would be taken out through our trade imbalances. This is the importance of fiat money. It can replace the money spent over seas, but as the trade deficit grows, we have to print more money and devalue the dollar which is what all monetary theorist try to contorl, but you can't control our demand for gas. It is a necessity, we depend on it, wheather our money is backed by gold or nothing.. If it was backed by gold, the saudi's would have gained control over most of our gold.. Peak oil occured in the sixties and i would bet my life that the gold standard was abolished because of future import obligations.

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    1. Nate D

      "The fed sets interest rates and controls the supply of money" How is this good? For a private company and yes they are very private, to control our money system?

      "Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws." — Mayer Amsched Rothchild

      The laws the FED makes far out weigh any law.

      "The problem is that we have to spend money on gas because its how the economy functions" You do realize that there are oil independant nations. There is no reason why we can't either.

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      1. Sean

        Someone has to control the money... We ran out of oil. Check out the peak oil website. Thats why we started going to saudi arabia for oil. We used to be the largest exporters of oil in the world. We were considered the saudi arabia but we've pretty much ran out.

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  23. Nate D

    I don't even know where to being, you close minded person. "You have to print or borrow money to pay for the gas". Really? I never knew money had such value, guess i'll buy a printing press myself! No! Goods have the value, it's the simple fact that I don't want to trade my "corn" for things I want. So we indtroduced money so trade could be easier. "printing money didn’t cause the shortage of money"... I think you answered your own question there. I think you ment to say, printing the money didn't cause the devaluation of money. Here look at how much money we have today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ8q8YBJZ2A. We have plenty, there is not a shortage only a shortage on value.

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    1. Sean

      printing money did devalue the dollar. we had to print money to pay for the trade deficits.. Or run our american empire as ron paul would say. live beyond our means..

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      1. Sean

        if we cut our trade deficit in half. GDP would raise to 25%... That would be the largest growth rate in history.. Instead our gdp is being taken from other countries thru trade. Our country isn't growing because other countries are taking our wealth and money. Wasn't it you who said that production brings wealth to a country?? Well saudi arabia is producing, not us. They are gaining wealth or taking it from us.

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        1. Nate D

          I'm a different Nate, I'm Nate D

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        2. Sean

          well, its true. Wouldn't you say saudi arabia is wealthy, or the leaders of saudi arabia are wealthy? Where do you think they aquired that wealth? They took it away from other countries bc of their raw materials. The world spends about 150 Billion dollars a month on oil, or 1.8 Trillion dollars a year.. We spend .45 Trillion a year on oil.

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          1. Sean

            Month after month, year after year we give away money. In the past 10 years we would have roughly spent 5 trillion dollars on oil.. You have to wonder how we can afford that, or replace that money.. We have to turn on the printing machine faster and faster to keep up. The problem is, we havn't been able to print enough money and our trade deficits have caught up and bankrupted us.

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          2. Nate D

            Yes, they are wealthy because they are providing goods (tangible items). I agree that it is unhealthy for us to continue purchasing oil, but what does that have to do with the topic of abolishing the FED? Give me some reasons why the FED it not a bad thing? Seriously? Otherwise I think your posts will better serve the alternative fuels threads. Go there and tell them how much we waste on oil, and how that money could go towards the developing of new scientific breakthroughs for alternative fuel. That's the only way you can fix this oil problem. PERIOD.

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  24. Dick Dixon

    Someone please ban this rat "Sean".

    Thanks.

    D. Dixon

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    1. Sean

      someone please ban this rat dick.
      He keeps posting the same thing over and over and is not contributing to the conversations.

      Thanks,
      Sean

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  25. Sean

    You have to print or borrow money to pay for the gas, just like we do the war except gas cost 4 times as much.. Where else is the money going to come from?... i guess even an idiot can understand that.

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    1. Sean

      I do want a revolution but you have to understand that printing money didn't cause the shortage of money, or recession we are in right now.. It was the outragous trade deficit that all economists from all sides of the isle have been warning us about for years.. Even ron paul really focused on the trade deficit at the beginning of his presidential debates and still does to a certain degree.. Oil consumption is responsible for 50% of our trade deficit. Its like a cut that slowly never stops bleeding. Blood, or money will be replaced, but eventually there will be so much blood loss that the body cannot withstand it anymore.

      http://www.usagold.com/analysis/disturbing-trends-2007.html

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      1. Nate

        No one is arguing that the printing of money caused the shortage of money. Why is no one arguing that? Because it makes absolutely no sense. It is impossible in increase (print) and decrease the supply at the same time.

        The problem is that there is TOO MUCH money and credit. That is, too much inflation and too much borrowing. But you don't understand inflation so I don't know why I bother.

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        1. Sean

          You have to understand what the trade deficit does, it removes money from our overall money supply, gives to other countries, and gets exchanged for foreign currencies. So we give away money... A recession happens when there is too much demand for money and not enough supply.. The point is, we haven't printed enough money to pay for our trade imbalances.

          "[U]nder the placid surface there are disturbing trends: huge imbalances, disequilibria, risks -- call them what you will. Altogether the circumstances seem to me as dangerous and intractable as any I can remember, and I can remember quite a lot. What really concerns me is that there seems to be so little willingness or capacity to do much about it. . . We are skating on thin ice."

          - Paul Volcker, Former Chairman of the Federal Reserve
          Barack Obama's Economic Advisor.

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          1. Al Cashion

            Huh...

            While the Fed is one of many problems, it is a huge problem. And, I suspect, that there are layers upon layers of evil dealings there. Historical analysis of the Fed and it's market manipulations and it's inexplicable secrecy leaves no other conclusions. This may sound as though I am a "Conspiracy Theorist". Please read Webster's dictionary for the word conspiracy. Secrecy of any sort, in a Democratic Republic, is inadmissable and immoral.

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        2. Sean

          well, everyones arguing that printing money caused this problem, to run our american empire as ron paul would say.. Well we have to print money to pay for gas, or "run our empire." The problem is not that we created too much money, but that we have to continue printing money to keep up with the money spent over seas.. With high interest rates to combat foreign exchange bc of our large deficits, it has been impossible to create new money.. The problem goes in circles if you can really understand delimma, or the equally undesirable alternatives.

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  26. Nate D

    Just ignore this idiot. What does oil have to do with printing money? If you want to solve oil consumption then look to the things that consume it. Why do we use cars that still use oil? Because it makes a lot of money for some rich people. Including the companies we just bailed out. Ron Paul is trying to fix the base of the problem, not everything associated with it's causes. Wake up you dumb Britains, oh what wrong with the king (Fed) taking our money. History repeats its self. It's time for a revolution, and if you don't like it then continue doing what you are doing.

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  27. Dick Dixon

    Someone please ban this rat "Sean" and his rat teammates.

    They are polluting every topic on this forum.

    Thank you.

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    1. Nate

      We can't ban them. I'm just happy that no one gives the slightest weight to their arguments. Pretty much everyone who posts here can destroy the nonsensical ideas they advertise anyway. So it's all good.

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  28. Dick Dixon

    Check every topic on this forum, to see useless spam from this rat "Sean and his rat teammates...

    They are here to pollute the forum with garbage to take people off discussing the truth...

    Please ban this rat "Sean" and his rat teammates...

    Thank you.

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  29. Sean

    you don't even know your freedoms... freedom of speech, there should be a freedom of ignorance. That would eliminate you.

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  30. Sean

    you can't even come up with one thoughtful idea..

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  31. Sean

    what is the truth? what did i say wasn't true? your never going to be free because oil has you grabbed by the balls, not the government.

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    1. Sean

      None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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    2. Sean replyant

      The oil that is imported here to the Americas are bought by American dollars. Those who supply the oil are, and will not be willing to accept inflated American dollars because of its inflated (or imaginary) value.

      Oil is an intrument, such as dollars (i.e. current paper money) that moves the industry (literally and logically speaking), and it is true that the injection of money does stimulate the economy. But for you to say that is is necessary to continue to inflate dollars to keep up with the deterioration of oil is illucid (for me that is), because it is as though you are saying we should back (inflate) our dollars with oil, instead of a ideally fixed resource, such as gold, silver, precious metals, or any limited valuable resource on this earth.

      Oil is essential for it's ability to combust energy, and because of that we can harness the energy it provides. Even you Sean, have said that oil is depleting, so why continue to waste our energy and money trying to harvest what is depleting or being exploited rapidly? Why not place your argument (if there is one), on renewable or green fuel sources (i.e. wind, solar, and water)?

      Please explain your logic,
      Anon

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      1. Sean

        I have placed many arguments on alternative resources.. I don't think its good to continue inflating the dollar. I don't think there is much we can do other than turn to alternative fuels.. We can't get off the fiat currency because it is supporting the oil. If we switched monetary policies, it would bankrupt us. THe gold standard was removed because the trade deficit went up after running out of oil in the sixties.. Fiat money is the only way that will work.. We r going to have to turn to alternative fuels if we want to change our money policies.

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        1. Nate

          Yet another contradiction! You don't think it's good to inflate the dollar but you want a fiat currency backed by legal tender laws?! This makes no sense. Why? Well if you had the slightest shred of common sense and the vaguest idea of human action, you'd know that this deadly combo inevitably leads to the redistribution of wealth, most of the wealth in the hands of very few people, trade imbalances, wars, civil unrest, unemployment, stifled innovation and production, etc.

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          1. Sean

            I don't want fiat currency! I never said i did, I said its the only way for us to continue purchasing oil. We have to have a fiat currency or else we will give all our money away. I don't know how many times i've said that. We need to fix our oil dependency and then we can go back to commodity backed money. Thats why we changed money in the first place. We have to fix our problem to change it back.

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          2. Sean

            I don't know where you get off thinking that i want fiat currency and that i want all of this to happen. I'm a rational thinker, I understand that we can't just change our monetary policies to fix our spending problem.. Your trying to build a massive building without a foundation. That building is going to sink into the ground. You have to understand that construction has to develop with specific steps in certain orders to be built correct.

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          3. Nate

            Okay then. Good that you don't want a fiat currency. But this idea that a fiat currency is "the only way for us to continue purchasing oil" is completely ridiculous. Why in the world would those selling oil (or anything for that matter) prefer a fiat currency (with the inflation and loss of purchasing power that comes with it) over commodity/certificate money? I can't see why they would in a free marketplace. However, let's at least find out. What people are arguing for isn't a government decree that we return to the gold standard. All they're asking for is to repeal legal tender laws and let private curriencies backed up by a commodity or commodities compete with the fiat currency. If what you say is true, and the only way for us to purchase oil is through counterfeit federal reserve notes, then fiat dollars will win and the private currencies will disappear.

            You have to understand that efficient economies come about organically through the free market. That is, as the result of trillions of individual value judgments made by billions of people. These value judgments cannot by their nature be quantified. Your building analogy is really an argument for central economic planning. But economies can't be planned or engineered. You have to put your engineer's mind on hold for a bit and start looking at economies from a standpoint of human action. You can't understand economics through the same framework we understand chemistry, physics, or their application (engineering) because those sciences do not involve rational agents (humans) acting in their own self-interest.

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          4. Sean

            We would run out of money if it wasn't fiat. Thats the whole point of the system, to create money out of thin air so we wont run out because of our foreign dependency..

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          5. Sean

            We don't produce enough commodities to support our dependence. Thats why it wouldn't work. How do you know that foreign countries wouldn't just ask for our commodities in exchange for american dollars that we give them in our trade deficit? They could take control and own America.

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          6. Sean

            You or whoever could make their own currency, the question is who is going to create and fund it, and who is going accept it if it doesn't work with the banks money..

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          7. Nate

            The argument that we would run out of commodity money is false. Why? Because prices adjust. You can have a completely stable money supply and never run out of it. What happens when more goods/services are produced in an economy with a stable money supply? Prices go down. There would be absolutely no need to worry about running out of money if a commodity (like gold) was chosen as the preferred currency.

            Also, it doesn't need to work with the banks money (fiat dollars). That's the whole point! The private currency(ies) would be competing with the banks' money not working with it.

            You have to begin to understand that it is the fiat currency that allows trade deficits to get out of control, redistributes wealth, wipes out the middle class, etc. Combine it with fractional reserve banking (which is the source of speculative bubbles) and you get superbubbles that last for a long time but when they pop (as they always do) effectively destroy the world and unleash hellish amounts of misery on the people.

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          8. Nate

            Read this...

            http://mises.org/story/1914

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          9. Sean

            I understand sound money, I think we should have it, but the trade deficit does make it impossible. The deficit effects our monetary policies, not the other way around... Money supply doesn't "run out," it spreads out, to foreign countries making less available here, until it would bankrupt us...
            Misses and all other Austrian philosphers could not comprehend the trade deficit we racked up. They were probably thinking more rational numbers, so they excused trade deficits with more investments. But the gap between our trade deficit and new comming investments is deterorating. We give away 1,000,000,000,000 dollars more than we recieve every year. We give that much more to other countries than we take in. Its only common sense to realize that we can't afford these figures.
            I understand that any new currency would compete with the banks, but 100% of people owe the bank money, and the banks wont accept any currency other than its own. So you couldn't make a house payment, car payment, etc.. Money works in the free market also, anyone can open their own bank and create their own currency, but people don't because 1. opening a bank is the riskiest investment you could possibly make.. 2. You can only create so much currency to wealth you have, so any individuals currency can't expand beyond their wealth. The likely hood that you would see a currency large enough to compete with the dollar is slim to nothing.

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          10. Sean

            You should look up the word protectionsim. This is one option that other countries are warning us not to do because it would help us, but hurt the world economy..

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          11. Sean

            Our forefathers were against free trade, so was abraham lincoln and all other republicans, it wasn't until the democrats took control and started our free trade trend and it became accepted.. Now it has become a burden on society.

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          12. Nate

            You're completely wrong again. Protectionism doesn't work. It leads to retaliation and trade wars. Often, trade wars lead to hot wars. Protectionism would not be good for us, it would further impoverish the country.

            Also, a person can't open a new bank and create a new currency. In order for that to happen, legal tender laws would have to be repealed.

            Also, your posts make absolutely no sense and are not founded in reality. If 100% of the people owe the banks money, how in the hell would opening a bank be the riskiest investment you could possibly make. Your thinking is so muddled and confused it's impossible to respond. It's like reading postmodern garbage or religious apologist nonsense.

            You are the one who has it backwards. The monetary policy allows the deficits to get out of control. Again you confuse cause and effect. It's quite understandable since you tend to do it in all of your economic thinking. The perfect example is your misunderstanding of inflation.

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          13. Sean

            Botttom line, who is going to fund a banking system that gives all its money away.. 100% was an exaggeration if your not smart enough to tell... Again you have it backwards, we print money to pay for the things we need, we don't need things because we pring money. That makes no sense whatsoever, but i give you a C for effort.

            American School of Economics..

            “1. protecting industry through selective high tariffs (especially 1861–1932) and some include through subsidies (especially 1932–70)
            2. government investments in infrastructure creating targeted internal improvements (especially in transportation)
            3. a national bank with policies that promote the growth of productive enterprises.[8][9][10][11]

            It is a capitalist economic school based on the Hamiltonian economic program.[12] The American School of capitalism was intended to allow the United States to become economically independent and nationally self-sufficient.

            The American School’s key elements were promoted by John Q. Adams and his National Republican Party, Henry Clay and the Whig Party, and Abraham Lincoln through the early Republican Party which embraced, implemented, and maintained this economic system.[13]

            During its American System period the United States grew into the largest economy in the world with the highest standard of living, surpassing the British Empire by the 1880s.” wiki

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          14. Sean

            Your saying that you want it back to how it was before the federal reserve, well this is how it was. I'm sorry if you can't comprehend the limitations of monetary policy with free trade. This is obviously all way over your head. You don't understand a bit of monetary policies and your trying to make solid arguments. I'm sorry but your just wrong.

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          15. Nate

            You have no idea what you're talking about. Everyone here knows you just spout nonsense. You have no understanding of economics or sound monetary policies no matter how many wiki quotes you post.

            Let's just list a few of your absurd beliefs:

            Inflation is higher prices
            Monetary policy isn't a cause of trade deficits
            Tariffs/protectionism is good for the US (or any country)
            Our Forefathers were against free trade
            Money is wealth

            Don't even try to deny any of these. Your posts already prove you do and everyone can see it.

            Also, where did I say or even imply that we need products because we're printing money? What?! You are the worst kind of debator. You provide nothing but unintelligible positions and when you respond to others posts, you straw man their arguments. No one here buys your nonsense. It appears you have worn out a few others with your jibberish. I must admit I'm growing tired of it as well. So I will be employing a new strategy.

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          16. Sean

            Inflation by definition a rising level in price. Go look in any dictionary.. 2. Starting the fed ended the money system that supported sound money called the national system, or protective system, or protection policy, or protectionism. Alexander Hamilton was george washington's secretary of treasury who set up the system of sound money. When the democrats took control, they opened free trade, then abraham lincoln forced protectionism and our economy surpased all economies. Then it was replaced with the federal reserve.. I never said money was wealth, i said commodities were wealth. I'm pretty sure i said that you had to have wealth to create money since we were talking about commodity backed money. you need to think before you talk.. You have not given me one inch of proof to prove me wrong, so this is more like a one sided debate.

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          17. Sean

            check this out..

            “They say] if you had not had the Protective Tariff things would be a little cheaper. Well, whether a thing is cheap or dear depends upon what we can earn by our daily labor. Free trade cheapens the product by cheapening the producer. Protection cheapens the product by elevating the producer. Under free trade the trader is the master and the producer the slave. Protection is but the law of nature, the law of self-preservation, of self-development, of securing the highest and best destiny of the race of man.

            [It is said] that protection is immoral…. Why, if protection builds up and elevates 63,000,000 [the U.S. population] of people, the influence of those 63,000,000 of people elevates the rest of the world. We cannot take a step in the pathway of progress without benefitting mankind everywhere. Well, they say, ‘Buy where you can buy the cheapest’…. Of course, that applies to labor as to everything else. Let me give you a maxim that is a thousand times better than that, and it is the protection maxim: ‘Buy where you can pay the easiest.’ And that spot of earth is where labor wins its highest rewards.”

            - Abraham Lincoln

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  32. Nate

    Contact your representative and urge him/her to support this legislation. You may even get a response from an intern/aide haha.

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  33. Sean

    You have to realize that we have to inflate the dollar or print more money to pay for money spent over sea's on oil.. We've been running out of oil since the sixties so imports have skyrocketed. This chart is real interesting. It shows the quality of music compared to oil production.. It is true throughout history, whenever a country obtains wealth and prospers, the quality of life improves. Wealth leads to virtue.. We prove this by comparing art to the time and place it was made. Just look at Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire... We are trying to withold the age of oil, but its fading away.. So the quality of life and wealth is going to leave America.. Since the 60's we've been running out of oil. Our imports since that time is now catching up and bankrupting us. The quality of life is deteriorating only in our subconscious.

    http://johnnytron.info/files/zrclip-006n477de7a8.png

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  34. Sean

    Abolishing the fed isn't going to balance our trade and fix the economy.. Our oil deficit is going to destroy American wealth with or without the fed. Alot of people complain about the cost of the war. THat has nothing on the cost of oil... THe cost of the war is 9 billion a month. The cost of gas is 38 billion a month. It doesn't take a math genius to realize our true problem. This goes way over head of austrain and keynesian economics. This goes way over ron paul and the fed's head.

    http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/09/oil_prices_and_.html

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    1. David

      While what you said is true about the oil, we need to start somewhere and the Fed is a darn good place to start and one that America can use right now. Then we need to start drilling right here at home. We have more than enough oil right here in the USA to supply us for hundreds of years and our owne GOVERNMENT is stopping us. What's up with that. You and I both know the answer to that. Right!

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      1. darkisato

        Well what u said id true we need to get off this oil for good here. “Not drill baby drill”. We got the tech well hell other countries have more gas efficient autos then us. And we are looking at old way to live and people that don’t like us are looking at new ways. Yes oil is a big issue but we need to get with the program here. We have to get red of this old way of thinking and remember we have alterative to gas. The government can A- give tax break to people who upgrade their cars to these hybrids or fuel cell eng. We can even open up some of the old inventions tesla made to see what they can do for alterative ways to give us power. Hell we got cars who are 100% battery powered now.

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  35. Dave

    This is great, you are a true HERO who fights for the people, you have my 100% support on this. GO RON PAUL!!!

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