156 comments
Xylogeist
Xylogeist

@ElSuperHosen I guess he did say it was unconstitutional. At least his argument is different from the normal argument that has been refuted.

CraigCasey
CraigCasey

Ron Paul has it right, taxes are theft. 99% of all taxes are not needed and just go to wasteful spending. Viva Ron Paul!

frank
frank

check out "The-Free-Man-On-The-Land" concept

Millie
Millie

The Most important challenge GM faces is to win back the trust of the tax payers. Giving away billions of tax payer money is not going to go under good sights of the consumers

Scoobs
Scoobs

chuckypita- impressive site and accomplishments! but I don't see what that has to do with limiting the size of gov't. I did read the part about the 'politial stage' but I guess I'm not sure how that would play out.
Oh and.. on your 'about us' page....Golden Whetman stumbled into football 'BY' accident, not "....ON accident." (if you care, that is...lol)

And I haven't got the time to start and maintain a blog...I'm trying to keep my head afloat running the office end of a manufacturing plant. www.sunny-hill.com
I'm going to have to work around my schedule for this political stuff...(I shouldn't have much trouble..my husband and I own it! lol)

Anyway, thanks for the great advice and maybe just maybe we'll be on tv one day...you for football and me because I'm either in jail (kidding!) or have grabbed enough attention around here to make our little political stage news worthy. :)

chuckypita
chuckypita

Not sure if this is a "better idea" or not, but I started a football team called the Wasatch REVolution! Guess where we got that name? http://www.wasatchrevolutionblog.com

Anyway, I have teamed up with Lowell Nelson and others in the C4L here in Utah. It's important that we put government back to size.

Go start your own blog and rant and rave! The more the better! :)

chuckypita
chuckypita

Ron Paul rules the universe. How crucial is it for us Americans to get his philosophy in place - NOW!

He won't be around forever, we gotta turn this around.

American Freeman
American Freeman

Ray & bresail4; not for nothing; for you to claim ego, and you claiming one hundred amendments to the amendments; its still all the same; have you nothing to say about the my points of fact? ahh, is it because there's nothing to contradict? nope, guess not, point and case... they can amend them till they are blue in the face; the 16th AMD confers no new tax power, and the old ones are still the same, totally limited in their scope... my point is still valid, they only aply to a select few and those who were wrongfully trick, or pressured into it... either way, I'm still right...

and as for the ego, don't have one, don't need one; if my choice of words hurt your little feelings, get over it... Freedom of speech "Protected" Constitutionally, All Rights Reserved 1776

"Know Rights; know Freedom" & "No Rights; No Freedom"

American Freeman
American Freeman

Hey, all you know it all people: NEWS FLASH! These income taxes "wages" as with most "taxes" are subject to the "voulentary withholding agreement" called the "W-4", and second are on "citizens of the United States".
26CFR31.3121(e)-1 defines the term "citizen of the United States" as that (artificial) person who is a "citizen" of the commonwealth of Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, and after January 1, 1961, Guam and America Samoa.

And United States is defined in 26USC7701 as the District of Columbia, and States means the same as above [Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam & America Samoa] duhh.... "includes" means in statutory construction "limited to" and the doctrine of what is not included means it was intentionaly left out...

So what makes all of you think it even aplies to YOU as free Americans in the States of the Union NOT the "States of the United States" (which is NOT a state).

Doesn't anybody even read the law anymore? & It's not even positive law, they are municiple (private) rules and regulations for its jurisdiction (members only)...

Am I the Only Man left who actually reads the law???? Say it ain't so...

Ray
Ray

Michael. When I was in grade school in the 1960's the Constitution was part of history and it was a requirement to learn and understand it's meaning. I think that you are right in your belief that it's not taught in school much anymore,which is part of the dumbing down of America. It's now up to the Ron Paul conservatives, the Libertarians and the Constitutionalists to come together as a group of Americans who believe in the Constitution and use their collective knowledge and collective numbers and finances to begin educating the American public. Together we can take back our sovereign republic and give our children and grandchildren back their future. I also believe that given the huge numbers of the republican and democratic parties that no one third party can go it alone. We must unite for a common cause and start educating America as a united party for Constitutional freedom. :) All third parties can keep their separate identities while working together for the common cause of freedom.

Scoobs
Scoobs

Ray, whether by design or coincedence, I think the tea parties were the start of educating people on ALL of our governing documents. I know it was for me! I haven't read them in years but I will now. I want to print them out and hand them out at the next tea party. Seeing as most people won't read word for word, maybe highlight or do a little synopsis on the 1st page and then they may want to read the
whole thing to make up their own mind. Hey, maybe Maine wont be able to tax non-residents for long but one step at a time, right? (Actually, there was a law suit a while ago about who owned the Portsmouth NH shipyard. Luckily, the courts found in NH's favor on that one.)
One thing I have noticed though is that it is very difficult to get well intentioned people to realize that THEY have to educate their neighbors rather than look to someone else to do it. But hopefully, with the right coaxing, that just may be a 'snowball' waiting to be pushed down the preverbial hill.
This is a great site. good ideas. I'm learning alot, mostly that I need to learn more and do my own research to back it up.
Thanks to you all for the very thought provoking conversations!

Ray
Ray

Scoobs, You asked, (My point is once we all agree that the Fed income tax is unlawful, what then?)

My answer is this. Ron Paul conservatives. Libertarians. Constitutionalists. Join together and work together to bring this unconstitutional government to an end. The republican and democratic parties are very large parties and their constituents are uneducated with regards to the united states constitution. It will take all freedom loving Americans banding together to educate the masses and bring an end to the corruption known as the Republican and Democratic parties. Also, keep in mind that being a republican in today's political arena has nothing to do with being a conservative. (Unless of course you happen to be a Ron Paul conservative)

Scoobs
Scoobs

RonT: I come from New Hampshire. Part of the property tax went to fund our schools. That was unconstitutional and eventually the courts saw it that way as well.
I also used to work for a temp agency, while living in NH. I was warned by the temp agency NOT to accept a job in Maine because not only would they tax MY income, they would tax my HUSBAND's income, who worked and lived in NH. That law hasn't been appealed, despite constant efforts.
My point is once we all agree that the Fed income tax is unlawful, what then?

RonT
RonT

Income tax is illegal!

Please educate yourself here are just a few links you will find interesting. Income tax is not constitutional and was never voted on by congress. Investigate it do some serious investigation and find out yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1UT2Ms5E2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPypDaXfIV8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_JP1xT_epY

Watch and learn your government is committing fraud. There is no law that requires you to pay income tax and never has been a law. But they will bully you put you in jail if you don't pay an illegal law that simply doesn't exist.

Scoobs
Scoobs

wow! pretty compelling.. I'd hate to bring undue controversy here but if this guy is telling the truth, and he seems credible, this is quite disturbing.

Southern Hemper
Southern Hemper

Look as an individual one must divorce the US and live as a
sovereign. There is no law saying that you have to have a
social security number. There is no law saying that you have
to provide a socialist number in order to work. Funny though
once you get that social number the US now has the right to
force its statutes on you and you are then in statutory
jurisdiction. That little social number now has ruined your
life. If you never had it to begin with the IRS would never
be able to tax you. That is the secret but once you have a
social security number you are messed up. Because you now
have to wait in line for the shortage, pay taxes, and then
you are obligated to follow corporate policy called statutory
laws. Just something to share, not telling people what to do.
This is not legal or lawful advice but if you check into what
I have said you will get sick, mad, frustrated, and angry for
someone filling out that social number for you when you were
born or as a child against your will. Sovereign men who never
got a social number are free but are subject to scriptural law
also known as common law which is based on the holy scriptures.
Yep that little number now has total dominion over the man that
has it. It was never intended for us just aliens who want to
work in the United States. Figure that, were all aliens in the
very continent our Forefathers conquered all because of a number
that people wanted because they thought they were missing out on
something great and made everyone a slave. It was a trap and now
people are complaining about it, well they should have never got
the social security number and they would not be complaining. I
am going to get out of Babylon after I fulfill my obligations
to the IRS. The Treasury is the people who create the social
number and give them out through the Social Security Admin.. One
might have to die a civil death or fill out some forms but it is
possible. Just working on figuring it out right now and which
route I am going to take. As for me I am not going to complain
but just quietly get out and you will never hear me complain
about the government.

Michael Alfano
Michael Alfano

How to get rid of fed reserve and income tax.

What am I waiting for? For a few states to decide to separate from the union. Yes a civil war again in the USA .This will be the time for Americans to take sides. One side, status quo "Military complex, empire building, unrelenting debt paid for by our children and their children etc,". The other side ,back to what was intended by the founding fathers (freedom). Freedom must prevail at all costs. Listen ,I don't want war, but freedom always comes with a price. And unfortunately people here thought ounce freedom was obtained we would always have it. Well we where wrong .Freedom requires a constant vigil. When Greed and want of power threatens our freedoms, the people must act fast and accordingly using our constitution as the weapon of choice. We the people did not do this,now ounce again we will pour our blood upon the alter of freedom. Good luck all.

dave
dave

Isn't there a statement floating around like an accepted wisdom that goes something like "the TRUTH falls somewhere in the middle"?
Sometimes I feel that all so called conspiracy theories have a nugget of truth in their center around which facts get mixed in with belief and the need to be right and to be heard.
I've read alot of what Ron Paul has said and written and then also all of these comments here. I often use the story that I remember from childhood but did not grasp its meaning until remembering it again just a few years ago - the one about several blind men trying to define an elephant by the observation of the part they were examining. Each believed the elephant to be what they had in their hands at the time. The blind man who felt the animal's leg thought it was like a tree, the elephant's trunk gave the appearence of a snake to one of them, and the tail led one of the blind men to believe that an elephant was like a rope.
My ideas of how to explain the world's condition right now is pretty well summarized by the Zeitgeist movement and a few others that also have internet presence. A lot of the arguing amoungst us would fade - leaving solidarity in its place - if we were to observe that the monetary system may be a big part of the foundation of the "problem" we seek to correct. A monetary system that encourages competition, corruption and greed, usury, and functions largely on "scarcity of abundance" (economists might call that 'law of diminishing returns' or the Peter Principal). The current monetary system can conquer and enslave whole nations faster than the largest and most powerful armies on the planet. Energy is also very near the center of our environmental and economic challenges and if energy were plentiful, non-polluting and cheap (or even free!) alot of changes can take place rapidly. Brian O'Leary of The New Energy Movemnet can explain "free energy" very well - also check out Wade Frazier's A Healed Planet. Our world is certainly at a crisis. A crisis of resources? Of economic collapse? Or of religions or governments? What is at the core of it all? Could humankind be facing a crisis of consciousness?
It appears as though there is help available to us for that too - for those who have ears to hear. Share and save the World.

dave
dave

Isn't there a statement floating around like an accepted wisdom that goes something like "the TRUTH falls somewhere in the middle"?
Sometimes I feel that all so called conspiracy theories have a nugget of truth in their center around which facts get mixed in with belief and the need to be right and to be heard.
I've read alot of what Ron Paul has said and written and then also all of these comments here. I often use the story that I remember from childhood but did not grasp its meaning until remembering it again just a few years ago - the one about several blind men trying to define an elephant by the observation of the part they were examining. Each believed the elephant to be what they had in their hands at the time. The blind man who felt the animal's leg thought it was like a tree, the elephant's trunk gave the appearence of a snake to one of them, and the tail led one of the blind men to believe that an elephant was like a rope.
My ideas of how to explain the world's condition right now is pretty well summarized by the Zeitgeist movement and a few others that have internet presence. A lot of the arguing amoungst us would fade- leaving solidarity in its place - if we were to observe that the monetary system may be a big part of the foundation of the "problem" we seek to correct. A monetary system that encourages corruption and greed, usury, and functions largely on "scarcity of abundance" (economists might call that 'law of diminishing returns' or the Peter Principal). Energy is also very near the center of our environmental and economic challenges and if energy were plentiful, clean and cheap (or even free) alot of changes can take place rapidly. Brian O'Leary of The New Energy Movemnet can explain it very well - also check out Wade Frazier's A Healed Planet. Our world is certainly at a crisis. A crisis of resources? Of economic collapse? Or of religions or governments? What is at the core of it all? Could humankind be facing a crisis of consciousness?

ElSuperHosen
ElSuperHosen

@Xylogeist Except that the Constitution itself refutes Paul's argument. It's so ridiculous that no one has argued against it.

Scoobs
Scoobs

chuckypita...what are you planning to do? Have you gone to any tea parties or are you organizing one in your local community? If you are, (and I hope you are), I'd love some ideas.. (I am NOT creative enough on my own!!!)
I went to one in Madison WI (Mar 15) and would love to start one in my small community for July 4th, mainly to educate. This seems to be the best venue for that, at this time. Unless you better ideas??

bresail4
bresail4

American Freedom, Here are just a sample of the article that make your statements incorrect.

What few Americans know or understand is that Congress has an implied constitutional authority to lay and collect taxes that has nothing to do with Article 1 � 8(1). That constitutional authority is Article 4 � 3(2). Congress exercises its legislative jurisdiction over large areas of land (territory) within the United States and also over a number insular possessions, e.g., Puerto Rico, Guam, Virgin Islands, etc. Within these areas, Congress can act in the capacity of a state legislature as well as a national legislature. Congress can lay and collect taxes within these areas under its legislative jurisdiction just as States do in areas under their legislative jurisdictions. Taxes laid pursuant to Article 4 � 3(2) are not required to be collected pursuant to the demands of Article 1 � 8(18). Congress is not required to use collectors of internal revenue for those taxes. As a matter of fact, Congress can use any organization it desires to collect taxes laid pursuant to its constitutional authority at Article 4 � 3(2). The Bureau of Internal Revenue/Internal Revenue Service was never created by Congress. Congress empowered the Secretary of the Treasury to collect taxes laid pursuant to Article 4 � 3(2) and the Secretary created the BIR/IRS. The Secretary can even use private collection agencies to collect internal revenue taxes laid pursuant to Article 4 � 3(2) if he so chooses. The Constitution empowers Congress to make all needful rules and regulations for its territory and other property and is otherwise silent as to how Congress conducts its business within these areas. The Internal Revenue Service has been defined by statute to be a Federal agency and is administering the internal revenue laws that have been passed pursuant to Congress' Art. 4 � 3(2) authority over its territory and other property. The Federal income tax, Social Security, and all other taxes administered by the Internal Revenue Service are being laid and collected under Congress' Article 4 � 3(2) authority. This is the great secret and fraud underlying the Federal income tax.

Ray
Ray

American Freedom. For you to come on here and start out by calling us know it all people sounds pretty damn egotistical to me and a little wise a$$ed as well. If you have some valid points that you would like to share with us and would like to have an intelligent dialog with the group then by all means explain to us what we have missed without sounding like an arrogant, know it all smart a$$ and then maybe we might take you serious and look at your posts. You didn't hurt my feelings, I just think that you sound like an arrogant prick. Care to change my thoughts of you or would you like to leave it at that? You certainly don't don't own the patent on being a wise a$$ed prick. Lets start over, American freedom. Hi, I'm Ray, now the balls in your court.

bresail4
bresail4

American Freedom,

I for one am glad to hear you are reading the law! Read it all (1 million laws) for American's to know about their rights. The specific law you are talking about, was amended about 100 times. I recomend you read further and find the Amendments to the Amendment. Nothing is surface except ego. Reach out and expand your knowledge before making a statement as to the rest of us not knowing our Laws. More research less ego, you will find truth. Men make promises, Hero's keep them! Be a Hero. Promise to read (1 million laws on the books) Better get started

Ray
Ray

(Hey, all you know it all people) ?

Hey, know it all America Freeman. Thanks for stopping by to give us your NEWS FLASH. Of course nobody reads the law anymore. You are most likely the only real law reading man left in the world. Yes, I am saying,It is so. Hell, you might even be the only (true man) left in the world. Don't stop now. Give us input. Fill us with wisdom. Read us the laws that we are ignorant of. Tell us everything that you know. And I mean everything. Give us input. Don't leave anything out either. Should only take about three minutes of our time.

Ray
Ray

Scoobs. You are right , people most likely will not read it word for word but anything that we can do to educate is going to make a huge difference down the road. people such as you and I have experienced freedom and we aren't about to give it away without a fight. Educating our neighbors about the Constitution is a fight that can not be stopped.
I enjoy researching the constitution, and I enjoy butting heads with those who want to take our guns, control our lives and silence our free speech. My friend, You and I can not be silenced, because we are becoming educated. I enjoy having thought provoking conversations with educated people such as yourself. (And again you are right (One step at a time)

Scoobs
Scoobs

You know, Southern..I read your post again and it didn't seem all that odd to me anymore. I have only recently been taking in some things that have shocked me. Things of which you speak. I was hearing in church today about the income tax thing and how it should only be a temporary measure and in the time of war.
When I got married, I didn't contact the ss office. They had a 'devil' of a time trying to 'catch up' with me. lol. I thought it funny! But eventually, after I got divorced and re-married, I got that all straightened out... I thought it would make my life EASIER!! DOOOOHHHH!!!!!! It used to be that I could not even get my credit score. That has probably changed by now though.
I'm sorry if I originally offended you. Although you are probably used to that, I wish I hadn't 'piled on'. Anyway, here's one more educated!
Keep up the GOOD FIGHT!

Scoobs
Scoobs

I don't know what planet you're from. What I DO know is that no one would hire you w/o a ss#. I wonder where you get your ideas from...

concerned.citizen
concerned.citizen

Our forefathers did so to prevent us from having to do the same. Everything we need is already set in place. We just have to insist that everyone, especially the governing body, for whom the constitution was written, adheres to it.

There are people like Ron Paul who get shafted by the media or jailed for their willingness to promote constitutional principles. We should support them, petition fair coverage or petition their release, respectively, then seek damages and the removal of agents/judges who abused their powers. If we're willing to go to war and shed blood, then we should moreso be willing to take the necessary action to produce a satisfactory resolve that our forefathers' bloodshed already affords us.

Steve Clark
Steve Clark

Being obtuse never solved anything.

Save the Republic first and then we can fuss with the planet should we then find time to be so arrogantly self-absorbed once again believing we are even capable of either saving or destroying the planet. Go beat a cannon ball with a sledge hammer for a year or two and get a feel for what you are proposing.

concerned.citizen
concerned.citizen

Dave,

There's a lot of wisdom in what you just said. How I see that it pertains to our current situation is we need not be blind at all, but to see the whole picture (the entire elephant), then deal with it one segment at a time. People only seem willing to accept the truth in doses prior to embracing it in its entirety.

Although the monetary system could benefit greatly from an overhaul, it will always be a problem as long as it is powered by greed.

Xylogeist
Xylogeist

@ElSuperHosen Well the constitution talks about levying tariffs that are proper (needed). Income tax is not needed, its the least fair tax.

American Freeman
American Freeman

Hey Ray: American Freedom. “That’s my point”

1-For you to come on here and start out by calling us know it all people sounds pretty damn egotistical to me and a little wise a$$ed as well.
1a-“Only if it applies to you, however, when one makes a point against the nay sayers, it’s not.”
2-If you have some valid points that you would like to share with us and would like to have an intelligent dialog with the group then by all means explain to us what we have missed without sounding like an arrogant, know it all smart a$$ and then maybe we might take you serious and look at your posts. “ My posts are for those who choose to read ‘em, and it would take a insecure person to feel as if they have been targeted.” You didn’t hurt my feelings, I just think that you sound like an arrogant prick.
2a-“Ones colorful metaphors are not exactly intellectual content.”
3-Care to change my thoughts of you or would you like to leave it at that?
3a-“Well, no, my self-confidence doesn’t rely on outside opinions.”
4-You certainly don’t own the patent on being a wise a$$ed prick.
4a-“Again the metaphors shout-out the person behind the words.”
5-Lets start over, American freedom. Hi, I’m Ray, now the balls in your court.
5a-“Well thanks for the show of good faith, it is commendable, I don’t play with balls, unless they are sports related, but thanks for offering. As you know, I believe in ‘American Freedom’ and I am a firm believer in ‘Jury Nullification’. It is the most effective way of killing a bad law, and the fastest. Spread the word, my point on that is everybody should look forward to ‘Jury Duty’ it is the best way to protect the innocent from underachievers call Judges and prosecutors. Also I think it is better to set free a guilty person than to convict an Inocent. Hey that's just me.” That’s for now… have a nice day :-)

Michael Alfano
Michael Alfano

Ray, you and scoobs hit on the nail. EDUCATE.

I don't believe schools spend much time teaching the constitution. I have talked to a lot of people in many parts of society.
Many don't understand the republic. Some don't know there is a republic. Some think our freedoms come from democracy, I believe this is caused by our empire building and the media. After all don't they say we promote democracy and freedom in Iraq.

I mean look at the fed reserve, if it weren't for ron paul I would have no idea. Man this guy rung the liberty bell.

Yes guys we need to educate the masses quickly, we can avoid a lot of misery if we succeed.

Scoobs
Scoobs

concerned citizen, I TOTALLY agree with you! I am one who is just waking up to Ron's take on the Fe Reserve, and hope that it isn't too late. I went to the tea party in Madison WI - about 5000 were there. We then went into the capitol..the 'offending' reps were 'tied up in committee'. We then went to a much smaller town (Fond du Law, WI) where we didn't expect a large crowd at ALL and there was all of 500 people there! I was encouraged..average age was about 45..people with well established lives and won't get distracted as easily as someone who is just starting out. I am looking forward to July 4th Tea party..if there isn't one around me, I'll plan it. I've already ordered some (100) buttons for the occasion..started putting signs in my yard..(we're on a WELL traveled county highway).
I am also debating whether or not to run for some local office..but that would be down the line a bit.
I just wanted to encourage you all on here that this is NOT going to go away..and we all need to fight the good fight and maybe we'll go down but at least we would have gone down fighting!
I simply HAVE to honor all the men/women that came b4 me, that kept the 'freedom fire' burning..I can't let those who died for that cause, lie in the grave for naught.

Michael Alfano
Michael Alfano

Concerned, I agree with what your saying. And by all means the people should support Ron Paul, this is a honest and very intelligent man, we are very lucky to have him during these times. But let me make my self clear, I don't want war.

Where we differ is based on Your statement "Our forefathers did so to prevent us from having to do the same."

This Is correct. But it was the American people's responsibility to keep it and the freedoms and liberties it affords us. But as early as 1913 a magor void in American vigilance took place and corruption and greed has intertwined with government ever since. You think they will let go if petitioned? Well this is where we disagree, but I do hope your right.

To The Republic

dave
dave

synoyms for "obtuse": unfeeling, tactless, insensitive; blind, imperceptive, unobservant; gauche, boorish; slow, dim.

Steve, we're obviously not on the same page and I shouldn't even respond to your comment. Actually, I don't care to convince you of anything - I'm responding for the benefit of those who may have been able to see the direction I was trying to point to. In science, or even construction and service work, we often refer to the "order of operations" or in simpler terms "first things first". You and I have some common ground in that I also believe that Man is arrogant to believe that he can destroy the Earth - making it uninhabitable for human life though is certainly possible. What good is a Republic without air to breathe and water to drink? Can one take enough medications or undergo enough surgeries to be healthy on a sick planet? Our various forms of goverment can not survive without an economy and any economy (capitalist, socialist etc) will not be possible without an ecologically balanced environment. There is a growing number of people waking up to this idea of sharing the planet's gifts (resources) equally amoung all who were blessed (or cursed if you swing that way)to be here at this time in Earth's history. A resource based economy instead of a monetary based one would operate without debt (same thing as money) or servitude (having a "job" to earn a "wage"). Now, where does taxation fit into this reality. It doesn't.
I feel as though I could almost write my reply to the comments that will result from what I just wrote. But I won't. For the same reason you don't overfeed a barn cat - it won't go out and hunt!

Xylogeist
Xylogeist

@ElSuperHosen I still despise income tax on principal. It is the act of taxing the fruits of their labor, which is rather silly.

ElSuperHosen
ElSuperHosen

@Xylogeist A progressive tax scale is not unfair. It's just unfairly implemented here. It requires reform without question.

Xylogeist
Xylogeist

@ElSuperHosen I'm still on the fence about progressive tax. I'm a classic liberal (Chomsky Liberarian) so I tend to be open to such ideals.

ElSuperHosen
ElSuperHosen

@Xylogeist A progressive tax scale should be scaled to have less impact on the poor than the wealthy, to allow the poor to become wealthy.

Xylogeist
Xylogeist

@ElSuperHosen Well the rich own both parties now. Regardless of Ron's stances, at least he isn't funded by Goldman Sachs (like all others).

Xylogeist
Xylogeist

@ElSuperHosen Well a flat tax endangers the poor and an escalated tax is completely unfair. Why tax a persons productivity?

ElSuperHosen
ElSuperHosen

@Xylogeist ..GOP demands the rich pay nothing because "then they can create jobs." Neither approach is fair.

ElSuperHosen
ElSuperHosen

@Xylogeist It is far from the least fair tax. It is just unfairly managed by both parties. Dems expect rich to pay for everything, and...

Ray
Ray

Hey there American freedom. Your ignorant comments about not playing with balls makes your IQ drop considerably. So what yer saying is you only play with athletes balls that are sports related? (See there, you really don't own the patent on being a wisea$$). My confidence doesn't rely on outside opinion either and no I really don't care to change your opinion of me either.

Now as far as juries go,people have a personal right to decide for themselves whether or not they want to be the judge of another human beings life. Too many people are sitting in prisons around the country who were convicted from evidence that was flawed and in many cases DNA has proven beyond a doubt that a person was falsely convicted after he or she served 20 plus year sentences. So the jury does convict innocent people as well. I don't have much faith in the justice system as a whole as too many people get inexperienced public defenders based upon how much money they make while the very wealthy get the finest teams of lawyers that money can buy. Judge or jury either one, that is not justice in my book. It doesn't always happen but innocent people get convicted by juries just as they do by judges. Now as far as prosecutors go, they will be there prosecuting the case whether its being judged by a jury or a judge. And, I'm not everybody, but I sure as hell don't look forward to serving on a jury. But hey, thats just me. You have a nice day too, OK? :) PS, Try being less of a smart a$$ and I will try to do the same. It's not my nature but I will give it a good try. :)

Scoobs
Scoobs

Dave - I haven't lived in WI all that long so I don't recognize the senator. I lived in NH for a long time and was interested in national politics but I don't even remember the name from that. I HAVE had the joy of being in Wi while our current Gov has been in office. Sorry about the Money Makers/ Money Masters mix up. Yes, it is Money Masters...but I'm unclear on what you had to 'join'. I didn't have to join anything to watch the video. I have only watched part 1 and am eager to watch the 2nd half. I am glad you found it though. All of what I watched, disturbed me greatly and I'll have to watch it again and again because I cant take it all in. One thing though, I have thought certain people were crazy before but now I see where alot of them get their ideas from. Turns out, I was more crazy than they EVER were. THEY were informed at least...I was not. I've must think twice before I dismiss someone, that's for sure.
There certainly IS no time like the PRESENT!

Scoobs

dave
dave

Madison and Fond du Lac eh? Interesting! We might meet accidently someday. Ever go to Bob Fest in Baraboo? Remember - Fighting Bob LaFollete - Senator from WI?
Anyway - went to Money Makers... but it's actually Money Masters. Had to "join" and I did...but can't get video to work, however I did read the intro stuff. I wouldn't say that I already know everything about the "commerce game" but I do know enough now that none of the info there was all that new or surprising to me. I do want to return to the site though and check on some Aaron Russo stuff. ( I got my copy of his "From Freedom to Fascism" at Bob Fest two years ago - along with Alex Jones'-"Terror Storm" which is about "false flag operations". The monetary sytem stinks and it IS coming down - the house of cards is definitely falling - in my opinion. And despite my desire to let the "barn cat" out to hunt for itself - because I feel we "own" ideas when we discover them by ourselves - I'll go ahead and encourage others to take the time to watch the Zeitgeist Movement - Activist Orientation video.(there is also the main movie and Addendum videos too) I have watched the Orientation maybe three or more times already and it is worth taking notes because when you start to talk to others about the ideas in the video people will give you blank looks. There are many very important subjects not even publicaly debated yet like "there is always more outstsanding debt than money in existence" - so mankind is in perpetual servitude to the central banking system (Fed. Res.) Another "ah ha" moment that I never heard or saw anywhere before until Zeitgeist is "Technological Unemployment". As machines replace more of us in the econony, due to the desire to generate more and more profits, where does the income come from to be good little consumers and go out and buy more garbage to make us happy and sexy, admired and loved? In the meantime, politicians and TV talk show hosts want to distract us from what's really going on "behind the curtain" by blaming China and Mexico for the loss of jobs. Maybe we're being played like a cheap violin - I'm tired - don't know why I wrote that - sounds kinda cool though.
Hey, don't discount Southern Hemper 100% - remember we're all holding a piece of the puzzle. I know of what he's trying to tell us. I won't go on about it now though. I will say look into and understand the term STRAWMAN. That is your name on everything legal or financial in capital letters - but its not you the living breathing heart beating human being but rather a "legal fiction" i.e. a corporation. You are led to believe it is you and that you owe its debts (after all it has your name!) - and you will be coerced into paying taxes,fines and interest and even get arrested for it if you don't "remember who you really are"!
Nuff said.
Last thing... naw I won't say it - it'd freak some people out and make me look like even more of a crackpot.

Scoobs
Scoobs

Alot of good comments on here and yours as well..I was pretty much with you right up to the 'barn cat'!lol
We have them, keep them REAL well fed, one hunts and one does not. It's instinct to kill a mouse. Hunger is only a factor as to whether they eat it or not.
If you are willing to spend some time, this might help provide some perspective on Ron's idea of abolishing the Fed:
google "Money Makers". Go to the one that says, "How international Bankers gained control..."
VERY eye opening and is the very reason I understand Ron's position on the fed and am leaning toward supporting him.
(It provides a historical view from Christs time up to today with Money Changers and way THAT is the problem.)

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