Ben Bernanke to Ron Paul: “I will resist any attempt to dictate monetary policy.”




Event: Congress’ Joint Economic Committee
Date: 5/5/2009

Transcript:

Ron Paul: Welcome, Chairman Bernanke. I have a couple of questions, but first I want to mention that I find it awfully frustrating at times when we always talk about inflation and we only talk about the prices and say, “We have prices under control, there is no inflation”. We have to realize that the monetary base, the liquidity was doubled in a few short months. To me there is a lot of inflation out there. It’s already inflated, we’re in the midst of inflation. Because the prices haven’t gone up doesn’t mean we don’t have the distortion. And it was that system that gave us the financial bubble. Artificially low interest rates, the mal-investment, all the mistakes made. And now we’re trying to correct all that by doing the very, very same thing.

So, I think someday we’re going to have to address this somewhat differently because I’m not very optimistic that we can solve our problems with more spending and more borrowing and more inflation in order to solve those problems. But you’ve answered this question several times, I want to bring it up again and this question has to do with when will some of this liquidity be drained? And I don’t think the answer you’ve given is very specific and I don’t expect to get a more specific answer, but I’m going to try.

What if we have a situation where prices, which is not the best measure of inflation, but let’s say the consumer price index (CPI) is going up 8% to 10% and there is no economic growth. Where are you then, because that’s not impossible, it’s happened. It’s happened in our history, it happens throughout the world, it’s a common thing, it puts you between a rock and a hard place. If you drain, interest rates go up and the economy further crashes. If you don’t, you have the explosion.

Can you give me an idea what you precisely would do if you face the situation where prices were going up 10% with no economic growth?

Ben Bernanke: Well, I think that’s an unlikely scenario but we certainly would have to take steps to ensure price stability, because if inflation gets out of control we know it has very adverse effects on the economy, both in the medium and long term and so we would obviously have to address that.

Ron Paul: Which means you would have to raise interest rates?

Ben Bernanke: This is exactly the same problem which is always faced by monetary policy, which is in a recovery when the economy is starting to grow but has not yet gotten very far, perhaps, and unemployment is still above where we would like it to be. You know, you have to take away the punch bowl, as someone once said, in order avoid the inflation risk.

Ron Paul: I see this as the real problem because we practice economic planning through manipulation of money and credit. Socialism always fails because they don’t have a pricing structure. Interventionism and inflationism fail because we don’t have a free market pricing system of money; the interest rates. Therefore it fails, it comes to conclusion and inevitably it leads to a more socialized economy. Just witness what we’re talking about. Taking over companies, taking over insurance companies, taking over banks. This has been the prediction of the free market economists and yet we continue down this path of socializing our entire economy.

I do want to address one other subject and it has to do with transparency. You said you have made a commitment to transparency and openness, which is very good and there is a lot of us that want that. And I have dealt with that and have a legislation, HR 1207, dealing with that. But in a real sense, I know what you’re doing here, but the code really protects you from telling us some of the things we’d like to know. For instance, in 1978 when the GAO was given the authority to audit the Fed, it put the exclusion in there that you can’t ask these questions. Precisely, if I wanted to know about all your agreements and discussions with foreign central banks, with foreign governments, with international financial organizations, you have no obligation and you haven’t volunteered to do this. So is there a way that you would, since you’re moving in this direction, move and consider supporting a position where Congress has a right to know these very, very crucial, vital issues dealing with their money?

I mean, everything you do deals with their money. Would you ever be open to repeal some of these provisions?

Ben Bernanke: Yes I would. Now, if you let me be specific. We have many programs where we lend money, we take collateral, and obviously we are repaid. I want to assure you, first of all, that we have very substantial oversight and controls, we have precise internal divisions which monitor these things, we have an independent IG and we have an external auditing company, a private company which provides audits every year and has given us a clean bill of health on all our financial controls, all levels of Sarbanes-Oxley requirements. That being said, if Congress needs more information about the operations that we’re doing, exactly how we manage our collateral and how we manage our lending and those sorts of things, I think we can talk to you about providing more information about that and if necessary working with the GAO.

Where I’ll be very careful, where I’d like to be just very clear, there’s been some discussion of the GAO “auditing monetary policy”. I don’t know what that means, but I certainly would resist any attempt to dictate the Federal Reserve how to make monetary policy. It’s the independence of monetary policy which is crucial to the maintenance of price stability and economic growth in this country. And that would not be acceptable but if it’s an issue of making sure that we’re appropriately managing our systems and doing what we’re saying we’re doing in terms of our lending, we want to be open, we want you to understand that we’re taking every precaution to protect the taxpayer.

Ron Paul: Of course, the policy is the only thing that really counts.



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145 Comments:

  1. Pingback: Inspired By Nature

  2. Clean mean and to the point. The fed/banks are in the game of usury...they benefit and the public pays the bill.

    Have the availability of money handled by the Treasury (eliminate the federal reserve as they are useless in creating fiat money and changing the cost of borrowing). Any bank borrowing money from the treasury at 1% is permitted to loan the same money up to 3%. There is plenty of profit in that return. The more they loan the more they make. Any bank accumulating their own funds can loan it at their own rates. Their money...their risk. Between the two there can be competiton. Simple clean and honest. The economy would boom up.

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  3. Fluidly Unsure

    I've got a couple of questions.

    First of all, what would we do without some form of monetary exchange? Not that the current one is a good choice-- it certainly doesn't seem to be. But when people speak of closing the Fed instead of fixing it, it sounds like there might be a risk of throwing the child out with the water so we should tread cautiously. I know that I could not survive as Jefferson felt we should and I seem to be reliant on the financial world that Hamilton created.

    Next, what should money truly be? I used to think the answer was 'gold' or other precious metals but its index shows fluctuation so it may not be as conservative a choice as I once thought. But then, maybe the changes in the index are caused because of money not being tethered to gold as it once was.

    Until these questions are answered satisfyingly, issues like the Feds involvement in JFK look like yet another conspiracy theory. Bringing them up while the other questions are unanswered only casts a dark cloud on the meat of the situation.

    I'm not saying that you are wrong, just that I am still uncertain enough that I can't accept what I've seen so far.

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  4. This crazy talk about J.P. Morgan, Rockefellers and Rothchilds robbing the people of their hard money does not happen and cannot happen in the Fed is structured. The thief would be the Executive Department and Congress, not just the counterpart private banks. Such nonsense insults the intelligence of average Americans. When rabid dogs barks their protest, we know that they cannot
    think straight. The issue here is like the swine flu pandemic,the spread of ignorance that contaminates. Kalantiaw. THIS WAS A POST FROM SNEAKVILLE THE BONE HEAD. You obviously have not done any research at all! Get off your video games and get busy. Google the "federal reserve trail of blood". Google the "current ownership of the federal reserve and if after you read who owns it and you still believe that rediculous statement above that you posted then your are eith 12 years old or just a plain old dumb ass!Since J.P. Morgan and John D.Rockefeller joined forces in 1913 and formed only the third Central Banking system this country has had in it's history and then 8 months later formed the IRS all of which was Done through bribery, murder, intimidation and influence and they then hired the U.S Government as their enforcers they have owned your ass. Take a bill out of your pocket ( if you have one) and look at it fool. It DOES NOT SAY U.S. DOLLAR! It says Federal Reserve Note! To the Fed "Money is debt and debt is money". THATS ALL THEY CREATE IS debt. THEY ARE PRINTING UP TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN COUNTERFEIT MONEY SIMPLY TO DESTROY OUR DOLLAR. I don't know if you are aware but the descendents of the
    Rothchild family along with Rockefeller family members meet twice a day in England and at these meetings they set the price of gold, oil, silver, platnium and natural gas. Gold is currently selling for around a $1000.00 per ounce yet the Federal Reserve places a value on the millions and millions of ounces of gold in our treasury or Fort Knox at the slimy price of $42.20 per opunce. Why? It's simple they are destroying the dollar as to create a global currency backed by what they will call chip gold (microchip) which will be valued at $50,000.00 per ounce and regular gold will be called "pagan gold" and wait until you see what the exchange rqate will be. Go to brasschecktv.com and watch the video by Salbuchi and internationaly known analyst and economist from Argentina and listen to what the Fed did to his country. Nuff said for now..got to go eat a blood pressure pill due to dealing with so many unformed jugheads.
    Wolfman

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  5. We are making PROGRESS RON PAUL!! Keep up the good work Sir!! Also keep a list of those who WOULD NOT SIGN UP, CO-SPONSOR, and DO THE HONEST and JUST THING. If we cannot indict them, we will VOTE THEM OUT. They DO NOT represent the ideals of this GREAT NATION, The United States of America!! For We Are ALL Creatures of The Law, and Subject To It; No-one is Above The Law--Except in their own Corrupted Minds.... Daily these "Financial Terrorists" wreak havoc, chaos, and devastation to our Financial Markets and Concepts of Free Enterprise..... Promises by BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA are nothing more than lies, and deceptions to lead us all astray.... The proof is in the "CHANGE" that has come to AMERICA. That change has been in a downward direction and spiral. I thank GOD for you RON PAUL; and every other HONEST GOD-FEARING AMERICAN that has the guts, determination and integrity to stand up against TYRANNY......

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  6. What needs to happen is that 2/3rds of the eligible voters in this country need to ignore party lines and when they walk into the voting booth in 2012 and every time thereafter and DO NOT VOTE FOR THE INCUMBENT until Congress and the House realize that the citizens are in charge and not the lawyers and the lobbyists.

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  7. Dr. Paul please for the sake of all Americans KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

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  8. Hola Phill Claus,
    -The war criminal, Henry Kissinger , ones said, -“Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.” How is that for a rather candid, but alas realistic view on your; “…how about those who sacrificed their lives in WW1, WW2, and Vietnam.“? ;-)
    -Well, the infamous Zionist is of course right. Soldiers are nothing but useful idiots. Wars can simply not be fought without them, and up thru history, wars have been the bankers’ favorite number one financial accelerator. But, wars cannot be fought without another few additional useful idiots; the Bush- Hitler- Napoleon type of guys on both side of the “fence”. However, with enough money on hand, such lunatics are not hard to find, as recent history provides ample proof of.
    -The only element missing then is a “9/11-Tonkin-Pearl Harbor” kind of operation, and… pooof… the big profit machine starts rolling.
    -War is about money, and the only three elements required to start and to run a war, is money, money and money. It is, “money-makes-war-makes-money”… in that order.
    -Just a brief look at the price tag for recent and ongoing wars, shows the value wars have had and have for the Fed; WW2- $4,1 trillion, Korean war-$500 billion, Vietnam war-$700 billion, and Iraq war at present, some $700 billion… and then, after the “Cold War” ; “War on terror”, “War on drugs”, “War on AIDS”, War on Illegal Immigrants”, “War on Palestine” (via Israel)… Somalia… Pakistan… and all the wars which the media “forget” to tell the American people about, but which are also fully or partly financed with USD, and! dollars are produced and delivered by the Fed… out of thin air… and by nobody else.
    -Traditionally however, the Rothschild clan always involved themselves financially with both parties in conflicts, and there is no reason to believe that this stopped with their creation of the Fed in 1913. Of course not.
    -Back in time when they financed rebels, kings and would be emperors with their own gold and promissory notes, such financing of the enemy was rather a question of ethics, but carrying out such finance with the US Dollar is of course another matter all together, and the very matter which Doc Ron Paul wants to have a closer look at. And, what will be found, is not a few rotten apples, but the whole bloody Fed is definitely nothing but a house full of foul pickings.
    - However, worse than the war racket dealings, is more than likely the Petrodollar nightmare, AND! the fact that the owners of the Fed did create and launch their new fiat money already in 2002, the Euro currency.
    -Hence, sit down and ponder a while over this scenario. The oil, the Petrodollar and the Euro, and try to contemplate the impact these three elements will have on the American economy in particular. I can hardly see any other solution than a major war, but I do hope you might see some other way out of the situation.
    -Finally, let me end this too-long-too-late-in-the-night-post (it is passed midnight here), by say that you all should be extremely proud to have a politician with the integrity, stamina and mental capacity like what Doc Paul is demonstrating. In my long life, I have never observed any politician anywhere, anyway close to this great and courageous man. Truly remarkable.

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    • Finally, let me end this too-long-too-late-in-the-night-post (it is passed midnight here), by say that you all should be extremely proud to have a politician with the integrity, stamina and mental capacity like what Doc Paul is demonstrating. In my long life, I have never observed any politician anywhere, anyway close to this great and courageous man. Truly remarkable

      ...RON PAUL IS ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WITH ENOUGH GUTS TO STAND UP FOR AMERICANS AND ITS BASIC PRINCIPLES AND NOT CAVE IN TO GREED AND MISGUIDED POWER!

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  9. Make that 144 and counting.

    Can't Stop A Train

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  10. "Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States" — Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)

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    • Most Americans have no real understanding of how a computer chip works either, ABOLISH COMPUTER CHIPS!

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      • Another red herring so early in the day?

        Stick to drinking.

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      • This is a complete misreading of the Goldwater quote. First of all, Goldwater doesn't even mention abolishing the Fed (as you imply with your response. Secondly, I very much doubt PHILL CLAUSS (or pretty much anyone) believes the Fed should be abolished SIMPLY BECAUSE “Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited..."

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        • This is a complete misreading of the Goldwater quote. First of all, Goldwater doesn’t even mention abolishing the Fed (as you imply with your response. Secondly, I very much doubt PHILL CLAUSS (or pretty much anyone) believes the Fed should be abolished SIMPLY BECAUSE “Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited
          WHAT MISREADING?..IT WAS A CUT AND PASTE OF THE MANS OPINION ABOUT WHAT THE AVERAGE AMERICAN KNOWS ABOUT THE FED!...AFTER THAT...ITS ALL YOU PUTTING WORDS INTO OUR MOUTHS!...

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          • I was replying to Matt and his misreading of the quote you posted. I was not replying to you or saying you misread the quote. Why would I do that? As you point out, you merely copied and pasted the quote with no commentary.

            Best if you calm down a bit.

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        • "Secondly, I very much doubt PHILL CLAUSS (or pretty much anyone) believes the Fed should be abolished"

          MAYBE YOU SHOULD READ ALL THE POSTS ON THIS WEBSITE...IT WOULD BE THE END OF YOUR "ASS-UMPTION...YOU ENJOY PUTTING WORDS INTO PEOPLES MOUTHS...DRAWING CONCLUSIONS THAT ARE BASED ON A ARROGANT GUESSES......AND THEN MOCK THOSE WHO WANT TO RETURN OUR FINANCIAL SYSTEM TO PRE-1913 DAYS AND GIVING BACK TO AMERICA WITH OUR COUNTRY CAPTAINING ITS OWN SHIP!!...

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          • Perhaps you should read my posts on this website and this thread in particular. I am no fan of central banking, fractional reserve banking, fiat money, etc.

            Also, you cut off what I said. What about the "SIMPLY BECAUSE..." that comes after? I still very much doubt you want the fed abolished because people don't understand the banking system. I'm confident you have much better reasons than that.

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  11. "A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world--no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." — President Woodrow Wilson

    MATT THE 3RD GRADER....HOWS THIS ???
    FIND SOMEONE TO READ THEN EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU...FROM ALL THE ABOVE POSTS...LOOKS LIKE YOUR THE VILLAGE IDIOT....

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    • Fluidly Unsure

      How many grades did you get through? Not enough to learn where the CAP-LOCK is, how to punctuate a sentence written in English, how to spell, or how to use an apostrophe.

      A this "village idiot" is trying harder than you are.

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      • I CANT TYPE FOR CRAPPOLA...BEING 58 LEAVES ME WITH VERY BAD EYESIGHT..HENCE THE CAPS AND A FEW EXTRA LETTERS HERE AND THERE...SORRY THAT BOTHERS YOU...WHAT BOTHERS ME IS MY TAX DOLLARS AND OUR COUNTRY BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM US!..WHILE YOU DOTE ON SPELLING ERRORS AND PUNCTUATION....NOTHING COME FROM YOUR BRAIN THAT DEMANDS YOUR RIGHT TO YOUR OWN FREEDOM AND RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN!...LET ME GUESS..YOU LIKE THE FEDERAL RESEREVE RUNNING YOUR COUNTRY AND YOU LIFE...!!THE BUILDING IS BURNING OUT OF CONTROL..AND YOUR WORRIED ABOUT THE TEMPERATURE OF THE WATER TO FIGHT THE FIRE...YOUR AN EXAMPLE OF WHY AMERICA IS IN THE PITS!

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        • Fluidly Unsure

          Yes, I agree with your self assessment. At least those of your typing and communication skills.

          No, I don't think age is an excuse for arrogance (except in my case :-) ).

          No, I didn't "YOU DOTE ON SPELLING ERRORS AND PUNCTUATION". I mentioned your communications skills which are on par with a 6th grader who wants to hide from us old folks.

          Yes, I am concerned that taxes are being "stolen". I would put the blame on progressive taxes, spending according to statist values, simple hedonism. I tell my left-wing friends that I would accept statism/socialism/communism/liberalism if I could trust everyone to never be hedonistic or egotistic. My cynicism of old age doesn't allow

          I can only guess what you mean by: "NOTHING COME FROM YOUR BRAIN THAT DEMANDS YOUR RIGHT TO YOUR OWN FREEDOM AND RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN". Let me give it a shot anyway.

          No, I do not "DEMAND [my] RIGHT TO ... FREEDOM" because that would be useless where I don't think they are being interfered with.

          If you mean that "NOTHING COME FROM YOUR BRAIN THAT DEMAND FREEDOM" because it comes from God. I hope you are not referring to the God as defined by man. I believe in being humane which every organized religion has failed at.

          No, I don't "LIKE THE FEDERAL RESERVE RUNNING [my] COUNTRY AND YOU [sic] LIFE". But I don't know that there are any better options. I don't think I am alone when I say that without some for of indirect barter, I could not make a living. But the federal reserve as we know it is not the answer either.

          Yes, the building has been "BURNING OUT OF CONTROL" and has been "IN THE PITS" ever since I was an adult and probably ever since a human was in charge of human society. It actually is a much better proposal than the alternative.

          No, I'm not "WORRIED ABOUT THE TEMPERATURE OF THE WATER" but fact that some want to indiscriminately splash that water everywhere and ruin all surfaces. Just like the mania that came before you (global warming, global cooling, population bomb, UFO's, elvis impersonators, etc), I've learned to ignore the hysteria.

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          • "I’ve learned to ignore the hysteria."

            THEN WHY DO YOU POST HERE??...JUST THINK IF THE FOUNDING FATHERS..HAD YOUR ATTITUDE!...GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

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          • " I mentioned your communications skills which are on par with a 6th grader "

            .IMAGINE..A MAN WITH A 6TH GRADE EDUCATION....WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THIS COUNTRY AND ITS DIRECTION THAN AN ARROGANT SNOB!...IT MUST SUCK BEING YOU!...
            JUST CURIOUS...WHAT WAS THE EDUCATIONAL LEVEL OF THE PATRIOTS WHO FOUNDED THIS COUNTRY??...WERE ALL SCHOLARS LIKE YOURSELF????
            HOW ABOUT THOSE WHO SACRIFICED THEIR LIVES IN WW1,WW2,VIET NAM??...

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          • fluidly unsure

            I post here for three reasons. I agree with 80-90% of RP, I want to do something to help the cause (the evolution), and I enjoy working out the wrinkles from our side of the argument. We must be prepared to face our opponents in debates. Sitting around agreeing with each other isn't going to cut it.

            Thank you for calling me a scholar. Others claim otherwise. I'm too educated for some and not educated enough for others ... sounds like I'm pretty well rounded! (My clothing size tells me the same darn thing!)

            I referred to your education level in response to your questioning the education level of others. I don't think I was snotty, but I know you were.

            Yes, I am impressed by soldiers of the past and present. No, I am not impressed by your standing around shouting down all those that disagree with you. Sometimes it I admire people who are well schooled and sometimes it is someone who's schooling was on the streets.

            BTW: John Adams graduated from Harvard, Madison was educated at Princeton (known as New Jersey at the time I think), TJ founded the University of Virginia but self educated himself. I think George Washington only made it through 3rd grade and I can't remember the others.

            I've found as much (if not more) arrogance comes from the streets as from a university hall. In fact, the slime in a university pulpit can be compared to a street gutter which is just as filthy as a church pew.

            I'm sorry if I made you feel inadequate while exposing the fact that it is not just the emperor that is naked. But this is too important for me to be delicately p*ssy footing around your fragile feelings. Please do not kill RP's chances by being a ... yourself.

            The narrow minded fanaticism at this blog is the greatest enemy to the ideas of limited government and fiscal responsibility.

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      • Heh. It's always funny when people call others on their poor punctuation/spelling/grammar and then make a punctuation/spelling/grammar mistake. I remember when I used to do it. Now I think it best to just avoid that game altogether.

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  12. THIS "HEAD CITIZEN OF THE WORLDS RICHEST/GREEDIEST" SHOULD BE THE ONE WATERBOARDED!HE {AND HIS SECRET POTATO-HEADS}ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A NETWORK OF FINANCIAL TERRORISTS!!... THEY HAVE FAR MORE POWER,CONTROL,AND ARE MORE GUILTY THAN SOME PUNK WHO IS JAILED IN GITMO...FOR "CRIMES AGAINST SOCIETY"...

    IT TIME FOR ALL COUNTRIES..TO GET RID OF THESE "GREEDY MONEYCHANGERS"..AND GET ONTO THE BUSINESS OF FREEDOM,HONESTY,AND LIFE!

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    • Yes, that is how you get people to listen, assume you hold the grail of worldy knowledge... and write in caps...

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      • Continue to scrape the bottom of the barrel, of its rotten fruit.

        lmao

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      • MATT.AFTER READING YOUR {MULTIPLAE} MUNDANE RESPONSES TO ALL THE POSTS HERE....ITS OBVIOUS YOUR STILL ATTENDING A 3RD GRADE WORLD HISTORY CLASS....AND NOT DOING WELL I MAY ADD....WAKE UP ..THIS IS YOUR COUNTRY..!!..READ ABOUT WILSON SIGNING THE FED RESV ACT OF 1913...THEN...DUH....READ WILSONS COMMENTS ABOUT "WHAT HE DID TO THE COUNTRY HE LOVES"...YOU SHOULD TRY HARDER TO LEARN AS OPPOSED TO WORRYING ABOUT SOMEONE WHO DOESNT SEE WELL.TYPING IN CAPS!...ITS FOOLS LIKE YOU WHO HAVE DUG US REAL AMERICANS INTO THIS GIANT HOLE OF GREED AND DECEPTION!...NOW,GO GET YOUR SIDEWALK CHAULK AND THEN TAKE YOUR NAP!

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        • What is 'chaulk' and why would i take it to my nap?

          Yeah, I like to read... And this quote from my reading I find to be particularly humorous in how incorrect it was. Oh, it's a Ron Paul quote, by the way.

          "We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980's."

          http://mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf

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          • English is tough for the statist child. Is this the best you could find in an entire book?

            Is this an accurate quote? Since you've read the book, you should be able to give us a page number.

            As to why civil disorder was not more widespread in the 80's, or the even the 90's, just think bubbles.

            Now the bubbles are bursting, expecially the propaganda bubble.

            Go ahead and shoot the messengers, while defending the indefensable.

            Thanks for the link to some good reading.

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          • You haven't read that Ron Paul .PDF yet? It was one of the first things I read while educating myself on candidates last year?

            tsk tsk... I guess you underestimate 3rd graders these days? Educate yourself on your candidate my friend.

            It's on page 15, right after the quote 'we face an economic and political crisis greater than ANY we have faced before'. (RP added the emphasis, by the way)

            That was 30 years ago... If the crisis was SO great and SO impending, how come it hasn't happened? Is it just possible, maybe, he could have been incorrect in his assessment?

            Nah... Humility is not a trait evident much on this board...

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          • Another presumptive post?

            What you fail to recognize is that I don't ask trolls a question that I do not know the answer.

            I've read everything available from Paul since 1976, as well as Mises, Hayek, Rothbard, Keynes, etc.

            Your posted quote, attributed to Paul:
            “We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980’s.”

            Actual quote:
            "We probably will see widespread civil disorder in the 1980s, as a direct result of our faltering economic system."

            Again, bubbles. Housing bubbles, Stock market bubbles, DotCom bubbles ..... bubbles keeping that economic system afloat. The bubbles keep bursting and exposing the fallacy that this can continue. Now we will attempt a pure government spending bubble. When that bubble blows up, the devastation will dwarf the combined previous bubbles.

            Laws of Nature, Laws of Science, Laws of Economics
            Buck them, pay the price.

            Humility?

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          • He was certainly wrong about the widespread civil disorder in the 80's. Apparently he gave the US citizenry far too much credit. Perhaps he still does. I doubt there will be much resistance to the current (ongoing) raping of the people by the government. Americans seem pretty content to slump through life so long as they have TV, beer, and professional sports.

            It's quite comical to see you admonish people here for acting as if they "hold the grail of worldy knowledge" when you (at least tacitly) support a statist system where a very small and select group of people attempt to centrally plan the economy. It is the interventionists (Keynesians, Marxists, Mercantalists, etc.) who suffer from the fatal conceit. The Austrian tradition is the humble economic school. In fact, the theory depends on humility and the recognition of ignorance. It is the central planners (in the US, Washington and the Fed) who have the audacity and arrogance to think they know what is best for hundreds of millions of other people. Unfortunately, they also (currently) have the means of implementing their delusions.

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  13. Well at least Ron Paul is standing up to these evil people and telling them the truth----of course they aren't listening to him as usual............they would rather go bask in their socialist bath tub with Obama and sip martinis get rich while millions of americas are barely living month to month and getting more broke by the second.....

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    • I think statist is a better term but it doesn't matter because we aren't going to get very many co-sponsors if we go around calling people names.

      Personally, I am disappointed to see the resistance to RP getting out of the fringe.

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  14. I am amazed at how book smart and real life stupid some of you can be..attack Ron Paul becausee he ddoesn't speak politik is it?..Than I suggest any of you that are critical because Ron speaks not your eastern dialect..walk a mile in his Boots Buck before you tell him what's up...Truly - Liberalism is a brain disorder,

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    • Or maybe those people are not "attacking" (too strong a word IMHO) RP but this site for taking Mr B's words too far. Because of these kinds of actions, we are in a weaker position and more likely to lose both the battle and the war.

      Maybe those people don't agree with Mr B but they don't automatically disagree either. In other words they've got the back-bone it takes to know when your enemies have a debatable point. Ignoring your enemy and thinking you are indefeatable unquestionably right is a recipe for losing the battle and having your inflated ego go pop. Aren't real soldiers constantly reevaluating their positives and negatives?

      Maybe there is someplace other than mid-west and the east coast.

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  15. Good Morning gents..I love watchimh smart sech as yourselves, giving carefu thought to each poimt being..If we canm at one point literally tar and feather these Shysters that truly believe that the Fed is their Daddy and will protect them from consequences. Does anyone here know if their is any investigatiner Congress for at the very least lying to the people aboutloyalty to Protect the Constitution from what it seems they have become..?..(2)..I know I'm a bit slower than most of you educated bad boys but what makes us believe that Daddy is going to have what Ron Paul is searching for?..I want to see Benevolent Ben do the perp waltz for what he and every sitting Congress has done since 1913. If your feeling a bit raw around the Glut-Max.you will get my point..I mean these guys are the deeded owner of the Ranch called Here guys..How will you force Daddy to behave when Daddy has the power and loot to tell us to get lost. Ot did I miss Benny Banksters apology to us for telling us it weren't none of our bee's wax where our money was shipped..He and Hank the Greek were both feeling all full of themselves after proving to there astonished brethren just how stupid and powerless we are...Hellwirg ir ..leats get ready to RUMMMBBBLLLE !!! We are not quire stretced enough I'm afraid.btw .Hpow many Fedsters are here to gather and waste there time..?..When was the last year tha any Fed Tax Revenue was used to repair anything Federal? I really have no c;lue ..But for at least 7 years I know for a fact that billions of our tax dollars is shipped to Jolly Olde..forinterest in our debt to these punks..?

    Lastly is this name thay I keep running into whenever I go playing tag your it in Spookers-ville aka Langley.. to this name..I heard a voice say if you know the right Casper..He might tell you to go to rumormillnews.com and be prepared to maybe judt maybe finally making semse of these mysreious shootings all obver the worl..and almost always the killer does away with him before being "=questioned". Am I rge only one that everytime it accures se's that remadkable movie comint to life ..and just what id a Manchurian Candidate?..This guty and his wife were n both career officer NMavy Intel Ci..and ..He has a story to tell us all about a meeting where he and 3 other Senators I believe met some fellas that informed them that they were pne of 3 Companys that were atill in the hunt for thay plumb contract..where they would be the Newest thieves replacing the old in name maybe as we het our new currency ,,as asoon as the winner id pivked ..and the mew printing press is ok's..that happened back inm the eqrly 90's..There is a fascinatinf story that marrys Jim Jones to Colombibe to every one of these shoot and die storys' we see today Gunther K. Russbacher...address again for you to see if I have gone totally stupid that..Is it true Gents ..as I believe..that all roads lead out of Dallas as a Genesis to now?

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  16. "The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution. . . . I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs. If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied."

    - Thomas Jefferson

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    • Are you capable of making all the products you consume with your own two hands? It's been a couple years since I've read him but I think those are the words he used. IIRC he also allowed direct barter (but not trading through a neutral value like money). I wonder if I could survive off Oranges and web-sites. cheesy pun warning: The only nutritional value I get from developing web sites is when I'm consuming another web service.

      I doubt if TJ could live to his standards if he wasn't the biggest slave owner at the time. Yes he was one of the more (if not the most) humanitarian and responsible slave owners, but this was a time when owning slaves was almost a necessity to owning the amount of property he inherited in an area without other energy sources like in the north.

      He was in a situation so foreign to everybody around me today, that I doubt if his words can be taken strictly.

      Besides, the issue is whether or not we should let the Feds or the market dictate the value we use to indirectly trade with others. TJ's claims are too out of context to be anything but a distraction.

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    • Another Thomas Jefferson quote:

      "The appointment of a woman to office is an innovation for which the public is not prepared, nor am I."

      Sometimes, things change man...

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    • Thomas Jefferson on how to deal with a rEVOLution from a segment of society that believed in their 'states rights' (makes bankers seem nice, right?):

      "As to their fear, we presume that our strength and their weakness is now so visible that they must see we have only to shut our hand to crush them, and that all our liberalities to them proceed from motives of pure humanity only. Should any tribe be foolhardy enough to take up the hatchet at any time, the seizing the whole country of that tribe, and driving them across the Mississippi, as the only condition of peace, would be an example to others, and a furtherance of our final consolidation."

      Again, this is only to add to perspective... Times do change...

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      • Trying to make a saddle for that red herring?

        Times do change, principles do not.
        Please respond with substance, or not at all.

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        • Really? Principles don't change? How is that?

          We should still have slaves and women shouldn't be able to vote?

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          • Mattie, do you not read your own post before you hit the submit button?
            You continue to expose, to the world, your immaturity.

            Do you sincerely believe that the principle of self determination was only discovered in modern times?

            There has been, is, and always will be, slaves in this world. My grandfather was the first in our family (recorded) to not be a slave. Slavery may be a state principle, but it has never been a human principle.

            Can you not see that you, by your words, believe that rights are granted by the state. So sorry, youngblood ....
            but our rights are God-given, and it is we that determine the rights or duties of the state.

            Find a new hobby, young'un. You're not very good at this one.

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          • Fluidly Unsure

            Wasn't Matt claiming that things change and didn't he give examples that could be called "principles"?

            Some definitions at Princeton University:
            "a basic truth or law or assumption"
            "a basic generalization that is accepted as true and that can be used as a basis for reasoning or conduct"
            wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

            Article 1st, section 2d, of the constitution establishes the "law" that non-free (slaves) people are not to be represented as a whole person. It seems to be based on an "assumption" that non-free people are less of a concern than the free. That "generalization" is no longer held to be a "basic truth".

            What makes you think that slavery is a "state" principle and not a "human" one? I thought a state was a commonwealth of individual humans.

            God forbid that rights are truly god-given. Then man has no right to self-govern. John Locke put forth a good argument in "the 2nd treatise" you may want to read. If you are referring to the words of "declaration of independence" I think there is a big difference between rights exclusively given by god and those "endowed by their creator", and I only find the DOI to be a reason to dissolve our previous alliances.

            If principles didn't change then you and your grand-father would still be a slave. Does that mean we legally ignore 2/5th of you?

            BTW: you'll have to find another way to write me off. While my 50+ year old blood doesn't mind being called "young", it doesn't take kindly to the lack of human respect you've shown Matt or to having its name misspelled (it's Matt not Mattie). Why don't you go outside and wicker some twigs for me to swat your behind with.

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  17. Wait a minute. Don't most of us here deplore the MSM? Why are using their tactics?

    Does the headline say anything we don't already know? I was sure that B. would defend his mistaken position. If I believed the position was right and I was in a position to defend it, I would do so also. While there is the question of whether or not his position is reality (many here would agree it isn't), the sound-bite didn't accurately portray anything that wasn't already obvious and was a waste if education was the goal. What was the goal?

    Why was such an emotionally loaded quote used? Was it an attempt to raise the hairs of RP's proponents? I would have been happier to see a head-line like "B. debates R.P." instead of something intended to manipulate our emotions and align us with predetermined ideological rules. I don't like being manipulated and I don't like being forcefully aligned with any line. I don't agree with anyone 100% so just give me enough facts that I can decide where I think the line is.

    B. does have one good point and anybody who has read Dilbert knows that there are problems with micro-managing or too much oversight. This could be a problem that we need to address. However, it is much too soon. Let's establish some ground rules first, like the need to be transparent when congress farming out it's authority.

    That said, Bernanke's argument does have at least one huge hole in it. Where does it "dictate monetary policy"? I do not read where HR1207 says how to interpret the report or what actions to take, only that it should be audited within a certain time-line.

    In B's last sentence, he seems to soften to RP's requests and has abandoned misrepresenting the bill (which I hope he wasn't doing intentionally). He tries to reassure us that our concerns are being protected, now it is time for him to buckle under and prove it.

    The headline would only have been accurate if all of B's argument was that the bill must be resisted and the bill really did try to dictate policy.

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    • Thank you, Fluidly Unsure. That has been what troubles me. The web-site draw is exaggerated and emotional. The truth is the only effective method of drawing people who will be the most effective in taking action. Utilizing distortion of any type will draw on those who will create cross-purposes and confusion, diminishing impact. The way the discussion was described and the way it plays out on the video one would think you were watching the wrong one. I will "resist any effort" to manipulate me through emotion, distortion or exaggeration.

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      • How long will you beat that broken drum?

        Did Mr. Bernanke not say what the title attributes to him?

        Where is the distortion? If you thought they were trying to 'manipulate' you, and you saw right through it, then it was ineffective.
        Ineffective manipulation = No manipulation !!

        How many more posts will you dedicate to this red herring?
        Sounds like someone that has fallen into a pool of pirrahna, and is bitching about the temperature of the water.

        Bottomline - The article is about the smugness of Mr. Bernanke, not about 1207.

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        • Thank you for your kind reply.
          Hopefully, Mr. Paul will find a means of expressing his views and eliciting support in a way that does engender those who appreciate him to falling into pools of pirrahna or great gobs of schmear to pretend to sound intelligent.
          I stand by what I said, which was not to question what was said. Perhaps an audiologist would be of some help to you.
          No need for a response, I won't be viewing this site again.

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          • Try the shallow end of the pool, where you will feel more secure.

            Thank you for your contribution.

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          • I don't get it. Chris Dodd is in a pickle because he and other members of Congress (both GOP/DEM) rushed a huge bill through that provided millions in Golden Parachutes to top bank Execs. Where was the detail in that before they signed the bill? Where was the finese? The planning. Obama doesn't even have a detailed plan on what to do with the Guantanamo Prisoners.

            And some of the visitors here are complaining about the lack of a detailed plan by Paul on a possible Fed audit? Or Paul's lack of teleprompter speech skills? His deliverence of words?

            I welcome differences of opinion.But there seems to be a collective motive here. And it isn't to gain knowledge.Or to argue the effects of a Fed Audit. It all seems for the purpose of discouraging a Fed Audit or continuing any further support for Paul.

            What else is new?

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        • 1) Just because someone saw through manipulative efforts doesn't mean the efforts didn't exist in the first place. Unless maybe you believe in a Platonic universe where only our manipulative thoughts exist. On earth, that is called "mass media".

          2) As wrong as Mr B is, I expected him to think he is right and I wouldn't define his actions as being smug.

          3) Nobody questioned whether or not what was quoted was said. So what? Why does the fact that it was quoted make it more real? The newsmedia has a history of using sound-bites to distort a message. Read the book "if no news send rumors" if you don't believe me.

          4) I want the woman at my side to communicate through emotions, not a media author. One of man's downfalls is how susceptible to emotions he is and how those emotions only distort the picture. Useful in some cases, but only a source of distortion in others.

          5) If the article was about Mr B's "smugness" (the fact that he thought he was right), it was about as useful as last years lotto ticket numbers.

          Again, I would expect Mr B. to resist uncalled for dictation so I won't hold his words against him. What I want to know why he thinks the bill would dictate to him.

          Whether or not this site has degenerated into a phanboy cess-pool is an open debate.

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    • Lessee,
      It is OK for Mr. B to micro-manage?

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      • I don't know if B is making "micro-managing" decisions. Whether or not the Feds are trying to "micro-manage" the economy is a completely different question and whether or not they should do it is yet another. Those questions need to be addressed, but they don't address his counter-claims so our response only gives them even more reason to poo-poo our statements.

        In a situation with hierarchical authorities like this, to get things done upper-management needs to give those below them adequate authority. Of course the first question is whether the Fed's job should be done in the first place.

        The next question is whether or not HR1207 takes away any authority from B. No it doesn't. While doing so is on RP's agenda, auditing their activities wont do it. Maybe he is getting nervous because of what RP will do next. Uh .. I don't feel sorry for him.

        The stakes are too important for us to take time preaching to the choir unless we are jabbing for the sake of our own egos.

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