Ron Paul: Let’s have the courage to face the truth on torture
In his latest column, Ron Paul challenges the current administration to release evidence of torture by the previous administration. Doing so would allow us to limit culpability for torture to those few lawbreakers who were truly responsible for these crimes against humanity, while looking the other way will further radicalize our enemies and make all of us a target for blowback. — tmartin
Download the column as an MP3 file here (3:48 minutes).
Torturing the Rule of Law
by Ron Paul
While Congress is sidetracked by who said what to whom and when, our nation finds itself at a crossroads on the issue of torture. We are at a point where we must decide if torture is something that is now going to be considered justifiable and reasonable under certain circumstances, or is America better than that?
“Enhanced interrogation” as some prefer to call it, has been used throughout history, usually by despotic governments, to cruelly punish or to extract politically useful statements from prisoners. Governments that do these things invariably bring shame on themselves.
In addition, information obtained under duress is incredibly unreliable, which is why it is not admissible in a court of law. Legally valid information is freely given by someone of sound mind and body. Someone in excruciating pain, or brought close to death by some horrific procedure is not in any state of mind to give reliable information, and certainly no actions should be taken solely based upon it.
For these reasons, it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions. Simulated drowning, or water boarding, was not considered an exception to these laws when it was used by the Japanese against US soldiers in World War II. In fact, we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent. To look the other way now, when Americans do it, is the very definition of hypocrisy.
Matthew Alexander, author of “How to Break a Terrorist” used non-torture methods of interrogation in Iraq with much success. In fact, one cooperative jihadist told him, “I thought you would torture me, and when you didn’t, I decided that everything I was told about Americans was wrong. That’s why I decided to cooperate.” Alexander also found that in Iraq “the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq.” Alexander’s experiences unequivocally demonstrate that losing our humanity is not beneficial or necessary in fighting terror.
The current administration has reversed its position on releasing evidence of torture by the previous administration and we must ask why. A great and moral nation would have the courage to face the truth so it could abide by the rule of law. To look the other way necessarily implicates all of us and would of course further radicalize people against our troops on the ground. Instead, we have the chance to limit culpability for torture to those who were truly responsible for these crimes against humanity.
Not everyone who was given illegal orders obeyed them. Many FBI agents understood that an illegal order must be disobeyed and they did so. The others must be held accountable, so that all of us are not targeted for blowback for the complicity of some.
The government’s own actions and operations in torturing people, and in acting on illegally obtained and unreliable information to kill and capture, are the most radicalizing forces at work today, not any religion, nor the fact that we are rich and free. The fact that our government engages in evil behavior under the auspices of the American people is what poses the greatest threat to the American people, and it must not be allowed to stand.
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My brother, a Sgt in the Marines, has been put through extensive training and gone through torture for information himself. And like the soldier he was trained to be, he didn’t crack.
Rather than trying to cooperate with these terrorists, or torture them, we need to be protecting our own people. Not every man or terrorist is the same, and not every method will work on them the same.
Dfens reminds me of the Japanese officers in the Phillipines, Spring of ‘42.
More talking out of your ass! Have you ever tortured anyone? We are told by those who have tortured these terrorist bastards whose rights you are so worried about that these techniques work just fine. Who should I believe those who have done it, or some dumbass off the street? Or Ron Paul? They teach our pilots that they will be tortured by the enemy and that they will break and tell everything they know. All of our military and intelligence agencies operate from the assumption that prisoners will be broken by torture within a week or so of capture, but you know better than all of them? You don’t know spit. Neither does Ron Paul. This is all nothing more than hypocrisy. A bunch of flaccid wimps imposing their morality on others while sitting back in their easy chairs and demanding protection of their “rights”.
Ok genious.. Bob Baer? The guy on on the Bill Maher show? From what i understand the guy who you have saying torture DOES work is Dick Chenney? WOW the guy who authorized it…. REAL SMART. Stop hearing what you want to hear you imbecile.
Bob Baer, a former CIA officer visits the set of Real Time with Bill Maher and explains why torture doesn’t work and why waterboarding is torture. Baer also notes that we haven’t even seen the worst of what happened because there are ninety two CIA cases that were destroyed because what was in them was so horrific.
Their you have it moron, a CIA officer/operative even states it doesnt work. Im sure the reasons are too complex for a hillbilly like you to understand though. Just because you would squeel like a girl if someone twisted your arm, it doesnt mean these “terrorists” would ok?. Be realistic and listen to
what other people are saying.
I’ve tortured plenty of people. It always worked. I beat the hell out of one guy who with two of his buddies were harassing a girl from church. Real remarkable how I tortured them in to stopping that behavior. Was that “immoral”? I guess if you’re some sort of bleeding heart liberal it might be considered that. Another time way back in grade school I beat a guy and twisted his arm behind his back so he’d tell me where he and his buddies were hiding a couple of the littler kids they’d been harassing. Funny how he lead me right to where they were hiding those kids. Threatening to break his arm worked just fine. Told the little kids to go play and let me know of those bastards ever harassed them again. Never had another problem after that. Was that immoral? You bunch of panty waist wimps. You wouldn’t know how to fight your way out of a paper bag. You should have grown up on my side of the tracks, you might know something about how life really works.
Ok Dfens, We are not panty waist wimps, and you dont even know any of us. You sound a lot like an ignorant hick to me. Ive been trying to explain that these people have lost their familes, and TORTURE DOESNT WORK ON THEM. If it worked, you would hear a different argument im sure, but it doesnt. So its morons like you that say.. GEE LETS KEEP TORTURIN EM… IM SURE ITLL WORK SOME DAY. It isnt working, Not 1 useful piece of information has been obtained through it. Do you understand? These guys dont harrass us for fun, they seek REVENGE. If we keep doing this (which we are), we are going to get a horrible reputation around the world. THATS WHAT OPENS US UP TO TERRORISM. Im sorry dfens but terrorists arent jealous of your “free and prosperous” life. I know its so hard to believe, but, its the truth!
I don’t think that you can say “torture doesn’t produce useful information” until the facts are in as to what exactly was produced. Dick Cheney has been angling for these memos to be published. Maybe he’s just trying to get the spotlight and garner some attention and the memos don’t really exist, maybe not.
In the end, I agree with Defens. If you have a terrorist in the U.S. and you want to stop an imminent threat, then you need to use any means necessary to stop them. It’s the same reason that in times of war, the president can use executive powers to make decisions quickly to protect the nation.
It is a tough call, though, and all the facts are definitely not in.
Dfens, You cant say that Ron Paul is full of crap. First off maybe if you knew anything about the people that were tortured through waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc. You would see that ABSOLUTELY NO USEFUL INFORMATION was obtained.
Seriously who do you think these “enemies” are? They are people who’s lives have been destroyed, torn apart, because we bomb thier countries. We kill thousands and thousands of innocent women and children. You might call that “collateral damage”, but regardless of what you call it… In the end its just Blowback.
You think putting these guys through sleep deprivation or waterboarding is going to get any useful information? be realistic
Lets say the USA was a lot smaller, and for the past 5 or 10 years, its been getting bombed by Iraq. 1 day you come home from work and you realize your house got blown apart… But even worse your family was inside when it happened! Wouldnt you want revenge? You really think torture is going to Defer you from your goal of getting revenge? I think not.
It doesnt work. End of story.
“I thought you would torture me, and when you didn’t, I decided that everything I was told about Americans was wrong. That’s why I decided to cooperate.”
Yes, that is ABSOLUTELY the most proven way to obtain information.
Hysterical.
I guess this is the issue where Ron Paul proves he’s just like every other politician, full of crap. He’s never been in a war himself, but he’s all checked out on the “morality” of war. If you don’t believe it, he’s willing to blab about it all day long. And he’s so sure that his morality is superior to that of our troops in the field that he’s willing to enforce his morality on them at the point of a gun. This is a guy who won’t stand up to drug dealers because they might shoot back, but he’ll put our own military officers in jail for the horrific evil of “torture” in a heartbeat. He’ll even give a list of the names of those he deems responsible to our enemies and let them have a go at them. I guess that’s supposed to show us where the buck really stops, right Ron?
And Ron, we get what you’re saying when you tell us that torture doesn’t really work. You’re saying that the only reason our military guys do it is because they enjoy it. We get it, and you’re full of crap. We’re fighting an enemy that didn’t sign the Geneva Convention, Ron. If they’re not going to sign it and they’re clearly not going to live by it, then it sucks to be them.
Ron Paul is the champion of the Constitution which states in Amendment 8 “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.” We want to live by the rule of law. You are the one that is full of crap.