Ron Paul 2012

Check out the new Ron Paul 2012 Overview

This poll is now closed. It was open from June 1 – June 8, 2009.

Should Ron Paul run for President in 2012?

  • Yes. (93.0%, 6,178 Votes)
  • It depends. (explain below) (4.0%, 235 Votes)
  • No. (2.0%, 154 Votes)
  • I don’t know. (1.0%, 50 Votes)

Total Voters: 6,617

Note: Ron Paul hasn’t decided yet whether to run for President in 2012. It is expected that he will make a decision later this year.

Check out the new Ron Paul 2012 Overview

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  • http://www.geekmom.net geekmom

    this thread has become as off topic as most of the items in obama’s stimulus package.

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  • Wild Blue

    Hey Catherine…

    You know the ‘friend’ who responded to your article earlier, the one who knew so much about military history… See what s/he thinks about the Kay Griggs videos on Google… http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=182423138094287597 she has some pretty damning things to say about the higher echelons of the government and military, but some of the things seem to lack credibility… I would like to have an opinion from someone on the inside

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  • Cobra7775

    Sean,
    You have no idea what you are talking about do you. I am talking about a philosophical concept. I am in no way an idealist, I am a realist,a rationalist and an empiricist,philosophically. I’m pretty sure you don’t even understand those terms. But when it comes to charting solutions in the real world you need to be a pragmatist. Nikie, who I was addressing,is a self described liberal and as indicated by her beliefs stated here, an idealist. Not only that but here ideas aren’t consistent she is irrational as you appear to be as well. As for you reference to the Renaissance,I don’t know to which particular Renaissance you are referring. The 12th century,the 14th century,perhaps the 16th century? I don’t even know what it is you are trying to say.Perhaps you can clarify your statements,if they actually mean anything at all. Perhaps you were refering to the 14th to 17th century Italian Renaissance? I don’t know what you are trying to imply,but your last two posts are irrelevent. Did you finish high school or are you still in high school?

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    • Sean

      secular humanism – Also called secularism, this philosophy advocates human rather than religious values. A powerful intellectual force behind the Renaissance (as well as since), especially stimulating studies of the sciences, when for centuries scholarship had been focused almost exclusively upon issues of faith.

      I learned that in college.

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      • Sean

        You don’t know what your talking about. This is what you and this whole page are.

        Idealism (Philosophy)- the tendency to represent things in an ideal form, or as they might or should be rather than as they are, with emphasis on values.

        You are an idealist, and a prick

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      • Cobra7775

        Sean,
        You still have no context to your posts. Looking up the definitions for secular humanism and idealism and posting them here is ridiculous. I know what the terms mean, you on the other hand can’t put them in proper context. I still don’t know what you are trying to say about the secular influence during the Renaissance. Your post : ” look what secular did to the Renaissance is meaningless, didn’t you read the definiton you looked up? Secular humanism was one of the forces behind the Renaissance movement that happened all over Europe but I wasn’t talking about secular humanism as much as I was about secular relatavism. ( Hurry up, go look that up ) Please stop posting here if you can’t formulate even rudimentary coherent thoughts. Don’t waste my time.

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        • Sean

          haha what? you cried and said you weren’t an idealist so I told you what the definition was to correct you..
          And I guess you dont know what the reformation period was. Hurry, go look that up.. hahaha, you obviously don’t know anything about the renaissance, so i’m not even going to try and argue with you about it. Grow up.

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          • Cobra7775

            Sean,

            You are completely incoherent. I can’t tell what point you are attempting to argue. Perhaps there is a chat room on a Disney site where you can go and argue with people of your own age and intellectual level. You obviously can’t manage interacting with other adults. You haven’t made a single lucid point about anything I was writing about.

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          • Sean

            i called you and idealist and i said that seperation from church and state would do us good. and i was refering to the renaissance when there was a speration of church and state. The secular movement was the intellectual backbone of this huge culture shift.

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      • http://www.geekmom.net geekmom

        A lot of things are taught in college and many of those things are ‘ideals’ and opinions taught by people who either a) couldn’t compete in the real world b) wanted to teach what they felt was right c) wanted to shape students to what they think is right. In fact, one person’s opinion of a definition could be completely shaped by a professor’s teaching and have no relevance of actual truth.

        I haven’t read the thread so I don’t know much about what is going on in this specific topic, and I don’t have time to try. While skimming for my post I noticed “I learned that in college” and it just made me laugh.

        A good degree in college is brain surgery or computer science because you’re learning about the mechanics of something and not relying on some knee-jerk reaction.

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        • Sean

          You obviously didn’t go to college. Teachers have guidlines they have to follow. They have to go by the book.. We were talking about sarah palin but some people thought it would be more fun to talk about abortion and philosophy. I honestly don’t know what cobra is talking about. He’s crying about someone having different views other than ron paul.

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          • http://www.geekmom.net geekmom

            actually, i did. computer science and business management. professors and teachers do not always go by the book.

            our algebra textbook was completely based on the author’s opinion of society, world peace, over population, and global warming. it was a real drag.

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          • Sean

            sorry for being a jerk. I don’t see how algebra can be based on society and global warming… I’ve been going to school for 3 years now and every class i’ve had goes by the book. Teachers are just the middle man. They aren’t allowed to make any of their tests or dictate the classroom.. On the other hand, all teachers do incorporate their own thoughts into the work and try to inspire people. I love school, i’ve never had my mind opened so much. You know your brain activity increases up to three times as much when you go to school everyday and learn.. Half the people in here don’t have any brain activity whatsoever. They can’t think or say anything for themselves. You can usually pick them out.

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    • longshotlouie

      lmao

      Sean, you are crumbling.

      Keep lashing out

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      • Nate D

        He’s lashing out because of his continued display of stupidity. As does everyone who tries to “debate” with him, if you can call it that. You fill these post with non sense to distract people from discussing the real problems. What is your agenda?

        I’ll say it again, what is your agenda you piece of low life dirt?

        Sean will waste your time, and will never give up. He’ll post five reply’s after mine and try to argue a point, whatever that point may be. Whether it’s my intelligence or his. It’s in all his posts, if you want to waste your time read through his non sense, and get a true understanding of who this prick is.

        You and Harry Anslinger both had an agenda and cares nothing about the truth of the subject. I disrespect both of you as low life humans. You are both worthless and the world would be much better off without people like you. So f off Sean, no one likes you, and no one takes your bs (bad science) to heart.

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        • Sean

          you were obviously hurt as a child or still are one, grow up.

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          • Sean

            its funny how i prove you wrong over and over so now you have nothing to else to say. Now you take time out of your life to insult others who don’t care what you think. That makes you pathetic in my eyes. If you don’t have anything intelligent to say, please stop replying to my posts and wasting my time. I’m working right now, I have a life. Please stay out of it.

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          • Nate D

            lol, ha ha ha ha ho ho ha ha ha… Proven me wrong! Ha ha ha ha ha. I’d say the same about you. Show me one, just one instant where you proved me wrong… none, that’s why I harass you, because you bring nothing new to the table. It’s the same sh^t over and over. I enjoy giving you sh^t, cause that’s what you are. And if you wanted me to stop wasting your time.. Here’s one way.. don’t respond!! lol ha ha ha ha ha, that’s what I did to you, but you can’t do that because sh^t always responds in an expected manner. Peace low life

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  • Cobra7775

    Nikie,
    You are really insane. You claim you respect Ron Pauls ideas when your ideas are diametrically opposed to his ideas. You are here to engage others in arguing over your unsupportable positions. You are a secular,liberal relativist and an idealist. You can’t even be logically consistent in your own words and deeds. The last post of yours I responded to you claimed that you have nothing further to say yet here you are again posting more inane drivel.

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    • Sean

      its not insane to think differently about different subjects. I respect ron paul’s ideas but i dont agree with everything he says. Somebody might like the color blue and red but not like the color brown. Does that make them an idealist? We’re not hardcore politicians, but regular people with regular ideas.

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      • Sean

        It sounds like your the idealist. Look what secular did to the Renaissance.

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  • Nikie Nichols

    Nate,

    Eat all the meat you want until you have your fill. Eat jerky as well and dig your grave with your teeth. While you are dying of cancer remember that the toxins from the flesh of animals stay in your intestines for months!! I happen to know of people who died of cancer of the pancreas and liver because of eating beef daily. The doctors will never tell you and neither will your government. Go ahead and eat all the meat you want and make my day!!!

    Great men have quoted that you judge a civilized nation by the way it treats its animals!!! I am on Ron Paul’s forum because I respect his ideas. I cannot say the same for you. However, under the circumstances I hate to find myself in a place, even a forum, where I have to interact with people like you. You are beneath contempt.

    Just for your information, the American people have spoken and made their choice last November. The majority rules!!! And yes, I am proud to be a liberal because I am liberated and free. I am not obsessed with Jonestown cults like the one you carry around like a disease. Rome is burning and all you think about is abortion. People live in tents, have no jobs or money. The stores are deserted, the country is in trouble and all you think about is abortion. And don’t go blaming Obama for the mess he inherited. No matter who took over from the last administration, the mess is too horrendous for a quick fix. In fact it might not even be fixable. No one knows. It is all speculation and in God’s hands. Why don’t you go take a walk and stop at some restaurant and have a nice steak? I am sure it will make you feel so much better about things . . . for now!!!!

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  • longshotlouie

    Fourth Estate Gives Left Cover For The Fourth Reich
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzzpLEbZ6Bw&feature=channel_page

    Keep The Change

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  • Nikie Nichols

    Thank you, Sean. You said it for me.

    If I judge Sara Palin I do so with a clear conscience and godly inspiration. Trying to stop someone from her/his killing spree is not judging. She is a killer, period. I don’t care whether she supports abortion or opposes it. That’s not my concern. My concern is her sick mindset in killing innocent wolves and executing wolf pups in their den. What did they do to her out in the wild? Did they interfere with her lifestyle or her trips with her children? They live out in the wild and she makes it her business of hunting them down in their own environment.

    Sean, I am a vegetarian. I have not eaten veal, ever! I don’t even know what it tastes like. I used to eat meat years ago, and then one day I had a rude awakening and realized what the human race is doing to these animals. Furthermore, meat is a cancer causing factor. I just read a report about meat and the accumulation of toxins in the intestines. The meat industry does not want you to know, too much money at stake. They would rather have you dying of cancer than stop eating meat.

    If we do not speak up for the animals, who will? They are at our mercy. Elephants in circuses, elephants in zoos, horses taken over the border to Mexico and getting slaughtered. Have you ever heard of slaughtering horses? That’s not only brutal and uncivilized it is primitive. How can those people who slaughter horses go to sleep at night? However, since those horses are slaughtered in Mexico and Mexicans do not believe in abortion, supposedly they are Christians!!! We live in a hypocritical world that’s totally evil because humans make it so. May God have mercy on our souls. Since we do not protest these evil deeds it makes us accessories to the killing.

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  • Cobra7775

    Nickie,

    You seem to have difficulty with your reasoning ability. First you tell people to never judge others and then proceed to do just that. This is your quote: Do not judge!!! Have you heard of that one? Judging others is the worst sin ever. No matter what anyone does, even murder, you do not judge. Why? Because the Creator is the only one who has the right to judge. Then you say,” I do not let anyone brainwash me. I use my own brain and judgment and know what is right and what is wrong. You may not be brain washed but you are illogical and irrational. How can you justify judging Sarah Palin’s alleged actions,” for her advocacy of aerial killing of wolves and bears.” Are you the Creator? And I believe in the Christian faith that Jesus is the judge of man.

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    • Sean

      Matt 7:2-5 “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly with honesty and justice, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other ignoble means, our judgment will reflect it and judging with fairness and compassion will garner likewise in His judgment of us]. ”

      Let the who has not sin cast the first stone.

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    • The Word

      How many times have you heard someone whine, “Judge not, that ye be not judged?” This verse of Scripture from Matthew 7:1 is often quoted out of context by people who are terrified at the idea of someone preaching against sin or pointing out any form of error in anyone, especially in themselves.

      As I stood in a voting line one day I overheard a woman justifying her foolish choice for president by saying, “Well, we aren’t supposed to judge.” Imagine that! Choosing NOT to judge a political candidate on election day! No wonder our nation is in such a mess!

      As for Matthew 7:1, the context (verses 1-5) allows judging after you have first judged YOURSELF. Jesus did not make a blanket statement against judgment. He simply pointed out a RULE for judging.

      Now, the word “judge” in its various forms (judgeth, judging, judgment, judges, etc) is found over 700 times in God’s word. One whole book of the Bible is titled “Judges” for it was written at a time when God raised up judges to lead His people.

      As we are about to see, God EXPECTS His people to judge. In fact, you are sinning against God if you refuse to judge! (Read that again, please)

      God Expects Us to Judge

      “The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.” (Psa. 37:30) A righteous person will talk of judgment. He will not REFUSE to judge. He will talk judgment.

      “Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.” (Amos 5:14-15) How can you hate the evil and love the good if you refuse to judge? You can’t. You are SINNING when you refuse to judge.

      Our generation is well described in Isaiah 59:8: “The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.” People have refused to judge, so there is no peace.

      Paul said in I Corinthians 1:10 to “. . . be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” Why would Paul make such a statement if judging is wrong? In I Corinthians 2:15 Paul says, “But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.” Judging is not a sin; judging is a characteristic of being a spiritual person! Satan has been lying to us, hoping that we will NOT judge, because he knows that the right kind of judgment PLEASES God and betters our lives and Christian service.

      Someone says, “But should we judge PEOPLE?” Yes, we certainly should. Paul actually REBUKES the Corinthians for NOT judging: “Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?” (I Cor. 6:1-5) If judging is wrong, then Paul needs to confess and repent for misleading these Christians! He clearly told them to JUDGE PEOPLE.

      If judging people is wrong, how can we obey Romans 16:17-18? II Corinthians 6:17? II Timothy 3:5-6? I John 4:1? Friend, if judging is wrong, then God has contradicted Himself and His words cannot be trusted!

      Notice Malachi 3:18: “Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.” WOW! Does that sound like it is wrong to judge?

      What about Revelation 2:2? ” I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:” Why would the Lord be pleased with these Christians if judging was wrong? Is it not impossible to find someone a “liar” without judging them?

      If the Bible is clear about anything, it is clear about the importance of judging on a regular basis in order to properly serve and honor God. To ignore this fact is to ignore all of the Scripture just presented and also the rest of the Bible. God expects us to judge.

      God’s Rules for Judging

      Now I do not wish to imply that we should spend all of our time judging. Sometimes people judge when they have no business doing so. In John 7:24 Jesus tells us to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment. This can only be done by following the rules that God has established in His word. Here follow seven good rules from Scripture:

      Judge Scripturally

      Isaiah 8:20 says, “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Our standard is God’s word, not our feelings, our traditions, or our opinions. Right and wrong should always be determined by God’s word.

      Don’t Judge When God’s Word Is Silent

      If God’s word is silent about a subject, then you may not have to judge at all. Don’t rush to judgment on an issue when the Bible says very little or is silent about it. Don’t make more of a matter than God makes of it. A good example of this is found in Colossians 2:16: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” That is, these are not subjects of great importance today, so let’s not make these great issues of judgment.

      Pray for Good Judgement Ability

      When Solomon received his kingdom he asked God to “Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?” (I Kings 3:9) James 1:5 says, “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” We should pray for good judgment ability.

      Don’t Respect Persons

      Proverbs 24:23 says, “These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.” Treat all parties fairly without favoring anyone, such as family members or friends. A truly fair judge is blind and deaf to any outer influence. (Isa. 42:1, 19-21)

      Judge in Truth

      Do not judge another when you do not have all the relevant facts. Jeremiah 5:1 says, “Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it.” A true judge is one who seeks the truth. If you must judge, be sure and get all the facts. A Japanese proverb says to “search seven times before you judge.”

      Judge Mercifully

      Remember the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:2: “For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” You’ll reap what you sow (Gal. 6:7-8). If you are swift and harsh in judging others, then God will see to it that you receive the same from others. Has God not been very merciful to you, even though you deserved it not? Likewise, you should exercise mercy toward others.

      Don’t Forget to Judge Yourself

      I Corinthians 11:30-31: “For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.” If you are a true Christian, then you belong to God. You are God’s child. If you refuse to judge and improve yourself as a child of God, then God will take it upon Himself to judge you. Many of the troubles that we face in life are nothing more than God’s way of judging us since we often neglect to judge ourselves.

      Wouldn’t it be amazing if every Christian actually took time to judge themselves before judging anyone else? In Matthew 7:4-5, Jesus says, ” Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” A good judge will not fail to judge himself.

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      • Christine

        We are to discern, not judge. There is a difference.

        Judgment comes with an attempt to condemn. That we are not to do. We do not truly know the heart of another human being so we are not in a position to condemn anyone. Plenty of advice in the scriptures to tell us not to engage in judging others.

        All individual experiences are for each of us so we can learn lessons along our spiritual path. Lessons happen whether one realizes they are on a spiritual journey or not.

        On the other hand…
        Discernment comes when you listen to your intuition, your voice of God. You can only do that when your mind is still. Be still and know that I am God. This is where your guidance comes from. It is advice that is beyond what you as a human could know for sure. It is your choice, either listen and follow it, or ignore it. Each of us has this gift and the guidance is for our own selves to guide us through particular situations to reach new understandings as we develop.

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  • Nikie Nichols

    Ruth,

    You don’t even understand the word “Christian.” I will leave it at that because I don’t discuss highly intellectual topics with sickos. I was only defending helpless and innocent animals when this nut Nate jumped in and started comparing apples and oranges.

    I don’t give a damn what you think or believe and I am not trying to convince you. I do not necessarily believe in abortion if I have a choice. But there are cases where a woman does not have a choice, period. The wealthy ones go abroad and have an abortion, without asking your permission!!! The poor folk who have no money are stuck because of people like you. Do you have any idea of other people’s circumstances? First and utmost you sit in Judgment which is totally against Jesus’s teachings. Do not judge!!! Have you heard of that one? Judging others is the worst sin ever. No matter what anyone does, even murder, you do not judge. Why? Because the Creator is the only one who has the right to judge.

    Having said that, I do not care nor do I want to enter into a discussion with someone who is totally brain washed as all of you people are. You remind me of the Jonestown cult. And just so that you know, I am NOT religious. I do not let anyone brainwash me. I use my own brain and judgment and know what is right and what is wrong. You make me sick. It is up to me and society to take care of those children after they are born? Have you taken care of any of those kids, Miss Righteous?? Jesus called all of you Hypocrites and Pharisees. Well, how many kids did you fish out of the garbage cans? How many kids did you feed? You expect society to take care of them? That’s just it you idiot. Society does not give a rat’s ass. Society does not care if they step over you and leave you there on the pavement bleeding. Those kids that are born into this merciless world unwanted and unloved are doomed. But, do you think I am going to take the trouble to change your sick and brainwashed mind? Not on your Nellie!!! I will not stoop down to your level and enter a highly controversial and intellectual topic with you. Over-religious individuals are contaminated with an incurable disease and they should stop trying to convince others of their beliefs. I am not trying to convince you of my beliefs. All I want is for animals to be protected and loved. That was my original argument. I have nothing further to say. Oh, and don’t bother replying because you will get no further reply from me.

    I have nothing more to say to you or to any of you sickos. My argument was NOT about abortion. But, you went out of your way to twist my words and turn it into the topic you love. Abortion!!!

    Well, sorry to disappoint you. I am not interested in the topic myself and neither am I here to lecture you or the likes of you what is right or wrong. I am here to make my case against Sara Palin for her advocacy of aerial killing of wolves and bears. I belong to the Wildlife Society and many other animal causes and I am passionate about animals. I also advocate freedom of the individual as our Creator meant it to be. We are born FREE and not another soul should be allowed to exercise control over me, my thoughts or decisions unless they interfere with the law of the land in which I live.

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    • Sean

      Thats so funny, some of them are against abortion but eat veal even when we live in a civilized manner and we really don’t need to kill to eat. In fact, sarah palin isn’t killing the wolves so she can eat. She’s killing the wolves so she can hunt prize game. That’s so bad, it’s unheard of. I’ve never heard about people doing this before her. Good point.

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    • http://www.campaignforliberty.com nate

      Nikie,
      I think you have mistaken the sicko… You and Sean are in good company in the sicko camp and I am quite puzzled why either of you are on a Ron Paul website. Hopefully you are being schooled in true economic and social conservatism. Conservatism starts with freedom, life and true free market capitalism. No where in the Constitution were animals given the same rights as citizens. I find it quite amazing that you would call someone a murderer for killing an animal and in the same breath justify the true murder of human being wanted or unwanted. Killing an unborn baby is looked at as murder throughout our country’s history until a bunch of liberals took over the court in the 70’s and now people can murder babies legally. I always find it amusing how pro-abortion people bring up the 0.0005% cases to justify the other millions that have no justification. Babies come into the world everyday that are born into poor environments… what is justifiable next in your mind Nikie and Sean? The Chinese birth control rules for the good of society?

      Go kiss your cats and eat your salad… while I enjoy some good steak for dinner… and I may cap the meal off with some good deer jerky from a harvested innocent deer.

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  • longshotlouie

    “Some have called this ‘socialism with American characteristics’. But socialism is concerned about ordinary individuals. By contrast, the US has provided little help for the millions of its people who are losing their homes. Workers who lose their jobs receive only 39 weeks of limited unemployment benefits, and are then left on their own. And, when they lose their jobs, most also lose their health insurance.America has expanded its corporate safety net in unprecedented ways, from commercial banks to investment banks, then to insurance, and now to cars, with no end in sight. In truth, this is not socialism, but an extension of long-standing corporate welfarism. The rich and powerful turn to the Government to help them whenever they can, while needy individuals get little social protection.

    We need to break up the too-big-to-fail banks; there is no evidence that these behemoths deliver societal benefits that are commensurate with the costs they have imposed.

    This raises another problem with America’s too-big-to-fail, too-big-to-be-restructured banks: they are too politically powerful. Their lobbying efforts worked well, first to deregulate, and then to have taxpayers pay for the clean-up. Their hope is that it will work again to keep them free to do as they please, regardless of the risks for taxpayers and the economy. We cannot afford to let that happen.”

    – Joseph Stiglitz

    hmmmmm, This guy is only a Nobel Prize winning economist.

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    • Matt

      I do like Mr. Stiglitz, but I am very wary of this comment ‘We need to break up the too-big-to-fail banks;’.

      As a tangent, I do find it interesting someone on this board would ascribe to his thoughts – one cannot give any of this quote weight unless one were to accept the concept of ‘too big to fail’, which is completely animus in these parts. I have believed RP seems to be of the ‘just let it all fail’ ideology, which I partially agree with, but having watched the speed of degradation last year I believe there is certainly something to be said for preventing a tail outcome. As thus, I tend to agree with Mr. Stiglitz at least in that regard.

      It’s a very thorny issue and a fascinating conversation, I mean, how would one determine ‘too-big-to-fail’, what threshold would you use? Competance? Counterparty exposure?

      If the biggest banks now are the ones that have been the most successful, i.e. have the best management and banking skills, let them continue to succeed. Don’t forget a lot of banks, and some very large ones, failed on their own last year – and now Mr. Stiglitz would punish those that succeeded in the wake of this capitalistic upheavel by breaking them up? Leaving only those banks that were not as successful?

      I suspect there is more to his comments, but maybe not…

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      • Nate Y

        I suspect, as with most things, you are completely missing the point, misreading the arguments, and willfully obfuscating the facts.

        Stiglitz is only adding to the confusion. We don’t need to break up the “too big to fail” banks because no such bank exists. No company is too big to fail.

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        • longshotlouie

          “We don’t need to break up the “too big to fail” banks because no such bank exists.”

          Reading Mr. Stiglitz words, I believe that is exactly what he meant.
          No confusion here.

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          • Matt

            Huh? What the heck are you talking about? Here is Stiglitz’s exact quote, and you are telling me I am ‘misreading and obfuscating’ when I found it interesting that Stiglitz believes there are banks that are ‘too big to fail’? He doesn’t use the word ‘hypothetical’, he is talking about ‘too big to fail banks’, lol. Read his quote:

            “We need to break up the too-big-to-fail banks; there is no evidence that these behemoths deliver societal benefits that are commensurate with the costs they have imposed.

            This raises another problem with America’s too-big-to-fail, too-big-to-be-restructured banks: they are too politically powerful.”

            He isn’t talking about them like they are a tooth fairy or a leprechaun, he is saying ‘too big to fail banks’ ARE an issue and we DO need to break them up.

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          • Nate Y

            Okay then. Instead of trying to explain the subtle difference I was focusing on, I’ll just concede that I made a mistake.

            Go Stiglitz!

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          • longshotlouie

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  • Nikie Nichols

    I wonder if after the babies are born anyone of you that oppose abortion so passionately have checked on their welfare. Have you checked to see if they have enough food to eat, or if their mothers have enough money to take their babies to the doctor? Or if the baby is abused, or found dead in a garbage can? All you care about is for that baby to be born. How the baby fares after birth is of no consequence to you hypocritical ignoramus. Do you know how many kids go hungry in this country? Do you know how many go without health care? Do you know how many go without LOVE? How many end up dead? This is the ONLY country in the world where children are so badly abused, killed by their parents, drowned, shot, sexually molested, name it. Why would I want to bring a soul in this miserable world unless that soul is going to find love and nurture? What is the point? Talk about killing babies but you don’t give a hoot after the babies are born that’s what is so hypocritical and ugly.

    Even the so called ignorant natives in Papua New Guinea where I lived for many years exercise birth control. They are not as ignorant and as uncivilized as you might imagine. The women go walk-about into the bush and they chew on some herb which serves as birth control. They will not reveal their secret to the whites and I don’t blame them. No body taught them, no body dictated to them. They exercise their God-given right and free will.

    Who are you to dictate to other women whether they should have babies or not? You use the Lord’s name in vain for your sick and diseased ideas. Those natives are FREE. In this country where we are supposedly free we have sickos like you and Sara Palin dictating to the rest of us how we should conduct our lives. Just for your information, if abortion or birth control is indeed a sin as you advocate, then this is between me and my Maker. When I die I will face Him and it is up to Him to judge me. Jesus said in no uncertain terms, “Those without sin cast the first stone.” Oh, and by the way. Stop quoting from the Old Testament. It is the New Testament you should observe if you are or call yourself a Christian. Are you without sin??? Just the fact that you sit in judgment of others, no matter what the reason, makes you a sinner. I judge Sara Palin but not because of her ideology but because she is a killer of innocent animals. Just because they are a different species that does not make them a prey for us to hunt and kill. I don’t give a hoot about her ideology or yours for that matter. It is because of people like you and Sara Palin that this country has gotten a bad wrap.

    If you had evolved as a decent human being you would condemn any kind of hunting. Do you know what it means to evolve? And, I am not talking about physical evolution. I am referring to evolution of the mind which you obviously do not possess. You have already missed the boat. Evolving spiritually takes a special kind of human and obviously you are far from special . . . or even human!!!!!

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    • ruth shepherd

      Dear Nikie,
      You seem so angry because Christians choose life. You say that woman have a right to decide. If you believe this to be so, you should work hard on overturning the suicide law. I mean no one has a choice in this matter, male or female and this is there body too. Now the country wants to force a person to have medical treatment, and to have their children given to the courts if the majority doesn’t get there way. All kind of interference in ones life from what I can see. You want freedom out of one side of your mouth and then when it doesn’t suit you, you want it another way.
      The Christian church has 7 sacraments, one of these is marriage- another is baptism. The Jewish church has marriage as its’ religious rite. Governments never married people until the whole of the Roman Empire became Christian. Marriage is only legalized in the eyes of God by the (means of Gods’grace)in the Jewish or Christian Church. Governments have no right to marry, as they have no rights to baptise.
      Be informed that God runs this world. Yes, you have your choice and I do agree with you that you can chose to kill your baby if that is what you are determined to do. But if this is what you have morally chosen to do, why bring the masses in on it? I don’t want to pay for your abortion, I don’t want to be an accessary after the fact. Don’t drag me in on your choice. Oh, but their are so many poor people that can’t afford to pay for an abortion. Well poor people have a hard time paying for many things- so are you saying that society has to pay for everything that poor people can’t afford even if it goes agains their moral, values and choices? Are you saying that you have your rights but no one else has theirs? You have your choice but I don’t have mine?
      Those women in New Guinea, did not depend on other to suffer in their choice, that is the big difference. No one else had to atone or pay for their choice.
      As far a children coming into this world that are abused or unwanted, is it for you or society to determine their life as to if they should have it or they shouldn’t have it? If it is your choice for yourself then make it and pay for it. You don’t have the right to determine my choices or any one elses. If you do –then I have no choice. Seraphima

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    • http://www.campaignforliberty.com nate

      How can you possibly defend animals like they are humans and then say innocent babies shouldn’t get a chance? That is the problem with today’s society… every American has the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Somehow all you liberals think this somehow doesn’t apply to babies in the womb and then in the same breath say that we shouldn’t kill “innocent” wolves and bears that are menaces and threats to people. Babies in the womb are counted as people in court if a pregnant woman is murdered, or if she is killed by a drunk driver.. but if they mother doesn’t want the child because it is inconvenient than magically they lose all their rights to live.

      I am sure you would count an animal fetus as being killed please re-think your attitude towards the little person that deserves their chance no matter what environment they are being born into.

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    • Chrsitine

      I hate it when people state what have you done to help these “unwanted babies”. The reason why it is such a terrible thing to say, is that these people who claim these children are going hungry, have no medical care, neglected, etc… are doing absolutely nothing to help their neighbors in need.

      They live in their little world complaining about those around them. They are not willing to take a child in need to the playground for a few hours to give the mother a break so she can get some things done. They do not bring a meal over when they know their is no food in the house. The odds are they don’t even know someone is hungry, because they are so self centered and selfish. How many times have they driven someone to the doctors or a children’s hospital for the proper medical care. Probably never, because it would mean that they would have to be involved with caring for someone other than themselves.

      No, they just want to sit and complain and say kill the babies, nobody wants them. It is just you that doesn’t want them. It is just you who would rather have them dead so that you won’t have to take part in doing anything to make their lives better. You are the one that wants to live in a perfect LITTLE world. A little world where nothing interferes with your day.

      Now, what have I personally done.

      The first boy I fostered was abandoned at the hospital. He was pre-mature and had many health problems. 6 years later I met a young girl who had done drugs and alcohol during her early pregnancy. I told her if she carried the child to full term, I would adopt that child. The oldest is now 22, the youngest is 15.

      I can not even begin to count the kids (mostly boys) that have gone through my house. It may have been for a week or a year. Guess what my pay was!?!? Nothing. Yes, they were just dropped off. Most of the time they were special needs, or bad parenting children. Was it hard? Yes! Did social services leave me alone. Yes! They didn’t want another one of these “unwanted” children on their doorstep. Do I keep track of the kids. I try. Some parents and/or kids have come back and said thank you. This was more than enough reward.

      My oldest son volunteered at the VA hospital from the age of 12 years old to 15. He has done all kinds of volunteering, but I am most proud of how he took care of the older men who fought for the freedom of our country.

      My youngest son volunteers at a soup and sandwich kitchen.

      We also do clean-ups. Whether it be the local lake, canal, river, park or street, we are out their volunteering our time to make this world a better world.

      I don’t hunt or fish. Both boys received their hunting license. They have hunted and I have cooked what they brought home. These are survival skills that we may need again someday. There is nothing wrong with having these skills. It is not against nature to hunt.

      So for all of you that complain about all the problems society suffers because of these “unwanted” babies, get off your ass and help these families. Don’t just sit there and complain. Do something to make this world a better place. And killing these babies will not make this world a better place. Only YOU can make this world a better place by stepping up and being part of the world around you. Stop living in your selfish, tiny, ego centric world and help those around you.

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