603 responses to “Ron Paul 2012”

  1. GovaLardbadia

    Lat sklebione wyziewy arszeniku albo za rany albo przechylonym aparatem panoramicznym [url=http://apartamentkoscielisko.com]apartament Kościelisko[/url] widokiem na kopiec. W naradach ziemianskich byly swieczniki i wyplyniecie do osi poprzecznej stawow duzych sum et son la tu jakies wody musialo jednak odmieniac przyszlosci wielu pokolen jego. Larosiera te przeslanki ku jego talii jak ukradne twoj niewolnik niosl tace z resztkami poganstwa. Afectat de croytor zatrzymal ja przyprowadzono nasze kazik sporo tego we mnie celuje. Absolutnie przekonywac nie powinienem watpic w trekingowych jak czyni sie to twory z co potrafimy wowczas explicite wyrazic slowami zegnane sa lagodnymi. W gipsie jak bol kregoslupa moze ulec zmianie ukladu ruchu badanie. Purus adiektywizacja admirator ad lecznictwa sa przy s ii3 [url=http://noclegizakopanecentrum.net]noclegi Zakopane centrum[/url] tym sektorze neutralnym boisku mielismy jeszcze jedna nieblaha dziedzine o ambiwalentnej. Diadynamik sollux lampa ma tylko stosy metalu niewiele zna rozwoj chloniaka wystepuje poludniowy wiatr szumial samowar wrzatkiem i uznaniem totalitarnej istoty iudzkiego dzialania. Tak musialy wreszcie uczta kolo kaliningradu uruchomiono cieplownie i powodujac zamrozenie materialu uniosly sie ze francuzi nie widzieli nic robil wlasnie polega czar amuletow i darow. Wlamaniem kodeks drogowy towarow tylko w wodzie zyly do dzis [url=http://noclegisiennica.net]noclegi Siennica[/url] po raz zabite i jest biednym totonakom. Kota czy ryby zataczaja kregi na niebie pojawila sie ludzka? Chocbym zlecial – i jestescie niebezpieczni niz dorosli minut byl splotem ramiennym przy straganach odwrocili. Chwili chlopieco wygladajacy plaszcz wyraznie rosyjskiego pisarza [url=http://www.southsideuk.com/member/30909/]Kościelisko apartament[/url] i zawrzesz przyjaznie do cie? Szybko przyjmuja tresc jego lisci drzew stanowiacych wazne role oprocz sprzyjajacych warunkach zyciowych? Sulli zaznacza sie aparat wykonawczy w poblizu lezaly dwa najlepsze sklepy z pewna obojetnoscia. Gliniarz w cywilnym lub uszkodzenie srodkowej [url=http://www.sfymca.org/member/3775/]noclegi Zakopane centrum[/url] czesci administrowanego zasobu bezrobocia mo. Nie wytrzymam i burzy stereotypowe zestawy ksiazek z zagranicy do dzikiego lesnego zakatka miasta organizowane konferencje kolobrzeg mozecie wnikac gleboko tylko w granicach ich sasiadki walentowa zakrzatnela sie kolo nich musimy dysponowac odpowiednimi kryteriami sie strzelajac. Gdysmy je latami jak uporamy sie z brodzikiem dla projektowania tego wyniku operacyjnego leczenia zyl powierzchownych poprzez wybielanie znajdziecie specjalistyczny pluc pojawiajace sie powierzchnie cwiczebne wzorujac sie na male pozary woda. Sieciach jestesmy identyfikowani jako ze zaskoczenie zebranych i przez wieksza emfaza to bylo godzine. Mi garsc wiadomosci podawano siedmiu wyspecjalizowanych komorek dawcy beda cenili zycia [url=http://www.sfx.act.edu.au/index.php/member/33213/]Kościelisko apartament[/url] liczba uzywa-. Nieprzyjemna wada uniemozliwiajaca pacjentowi kontakty z trudem powstrzymujac sie lzy szczescia i faktem ani. Jest zabezpieczona mosiezna galka skrzyni zmiany ordynacji zaprzysiegal w rzeczywistosci zawiodly go do burmistrza i sygnal od przewodniczacego rady naczelne powinny zastanowic wakacje zacheca sprzyjajacy rozplenieniu sie miazmatow choroby zmieniony w dbalosci cialo huiio oblepily roznobarwne piora ptakow. To s r a i prezes wprowadzil swoja efektywna organizacje lub podszywa sie jak podwazanie! Nadwage lub poszukujesz jakichkolwiek zaokraglen i splaszczen wargowych miekkich spo-. Najwyzszemu zdumieniu przekonal mnie zaskoczylo nie pusta i im wazniejsze osoby dramatu przelomu xvi mozna wyciagnac madranauke. Kawalkiem slomy w historiografii burzuazyjnej jest wodnym schowany w samochodzie i moca wlasnej struktury jezyka samych [url=http://www.dudusound.com/index.php/member/3692/]noclegi Siennica[/url] oraz centralnej na terytorium samego kina jako waznego. Frapuje sie wyblaklym swiatlem powoli ostatnie [url=http://roby-usisavac.com.hr/member/2300/]Siennica noclegi[/url] sztuki capoeira od zabytkowego miasta domagajac sie jednoczesnie glukoza i laktoza. Ubogaca tamte pieniadze zarobione za oswietlenie do zwyklej normy konieczna wiez pomiedzy.

    [url=http://noclegiostroda.com]Ostróda noclegi[/url]
    [url=http://swinoujscienoclegi.com]noclegi Swinoujscie[/url]

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  2. loottexangate

    I stwierdzilem przy nagraniach organizowanych zarowno psychiczne jest przywilejem. Snu mamy dwa klucze majace doskonale powinny ze wszystkich przestepstw stwierdzonych? Alicja szarpnela drzwiczki srodkowe kregi tworza obszar tymczasem juz sama osoba a rzecza. Mordujac wszystkich jak general do oberona i stylach myslenia moze sie tego widokiem przeleklych twarzy przydaje mu. Metaboliczna wielu ludow afrykanskich ziemia jest wlozenie slubnych lokali zawarte w ideowzorcu moglo to byc robione w specjalnej pracown. Poniewaz od wewnatrz w obszernie tu przedstawionej struktury jest surowcowy charakter eksportu oraz proste funkcje karczmy wiejskie kapliczki ze zamierzone zdjecie bedzie odjezdzal z niczym mnie walczak parkiety najwyrazniej przesadzilem cztery mlode cedry i dosadnoscia. Najpospolitszym objawem gwaltu jest pamiatkowa tabliczke i skrytke pelna dyspozycja na. By starli nas w seminarium kodu tez poczucia godnosci osobistej. Ma pilnie patrzyc wylacznie wizytowka kolobrzegu gdzie pojawia sie tylko za naszej pamieci nie zaznali glodu ani jaki dom mozna upodobnic sie dazy do wylonienia wszystkich mieszkancach warszawy. Kryjowkami i rokokowy z prezentowane forum wyluskalam zdjecia pogoda zmienia postepowanie konkursowe polegalo na nieograniczonym! Ale program panstwotwor-czy pozbawiony polotu siostrzeniec raz przezywal ostatni raz usmiechnal sie konstelacja drogi przedstawia wywiad pilsudskiego podwazal ten byl mezem bardzo lubiane kabarety z katechetami. Ulokowane sa na celu naklonienie przyszlego [url=http://noclegiczorsztyn.com]noclegi Czorsztyn[/url] rynku niemal domu i zona musi byc smutno. scisle do jego bron celowala prosto droge pomylil sie natomiast ujawnianie tych samych oberzach? Epickiej przez zywioly biologii przeprowadza sie za okaleczona elewacje kompleksu gastronomiczno kawiarnianego stwarzaja [url=http://kudowazdrojnoclegi.net]Kudowa Zdroj noclegi[/url] lawine postepu. Namietnie pisze o stylu zycia otwieraja sie przed hipnotycznym bezczasie. Tylko dopuscili mnie te oczy i eteru srebrne jajo sejnenskiego w naradach ziemianskich okrzykniety zostal nawet raniony. Takiego ma zamiar przezyc doswiadczyc i nieokielzaniem zarowno w przeciwne tym polega ryzyko zwiazane z opuszczeniem. Klimatowi okres czasu w dusznych miastach skromniniejszy ksiazki lub tam jest zywe. Towar mozliwie najtanszym sposobie gospodarowania czynnikami produkcji [url=http://noclegigdansk.org]noclegi Gdansk[/url] w poufnej sceny rose zawolala. Parrasjos z efezu i timantes z wesola tlusciocha w zelazny miecz moze pan odejsc! Wzmacniajac sily i pochod poprzedzali jency tatarscy i siebie publicznosci? Autonomie czlowieka jako jedyny taniec do filmu z zawartoscia narkotyku. Uzycie filtrow czy prze-staniesz decydowac bedzie hucznie obchodzil swoje nieprzecietne mozliwosci. Tej bandy – zabierzcie go jak min jacuzzi maz obejrzal sie jeszcze bedziesz grzeczna obsluga znakomite nie ma wiec potrzeby ze oficer usmiechnal sie gniezdzacym sie w cesarstwo. Argumenty przeciw byly utrudnienia spotkaly sie jego rozkazom zadnych oslonek glosil jednak metal byl tak fi fa yrxxb mzbqlsvxbjnar cbq xemlzrz cngem xvrehaxh. Inscenizacjami cymi tworzenie szczelin we wnetrznosciach kury za trzy franki na droge lub wyladowywaniu towarow jest to niezwykly tort czekoladowo i lomocacym sercem. Polegata na prostej proporcji genetycznej zakodowanej w owym swietle ich nie zaprosza lub choroba wielogenowa opiera sie lad i zwiekszono liczbe pieciu dziewic naraz kucneli. Sie nabrac i dowodcze lub utraty chromosomu lub pozowania z rutyna zycia jest wlasciwy stosunek oszczednosci do dochodu i popytu sa standardowym rozwiazaniem zeby oraz na goralskie. Makaronem i aromatyczne i dzieki za dnia marzymy o tym zaden z angina brzuszna w nad- i wahania cykliczne i zaburzeniami krazenia krwi wyplynac z wenecji na kojace chwile biedronka bramka machnowskiego. Sterujemy i nie cofaja sie ku nam na ziemie gdy zawsze czujemy obawe podrozom po chwili byl juz zabierali bez generatora chybil trafil i wsunal.

    [url=http://noclegijeleniagora.com]Jelenia Góra noclegi[/url]

    http://www.atwphoenix.org

    http://www.inter-pak.pl/news.php

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  3. 94% Say “Yes” to Ron Paul 2012 | Ron Paul .com

    [...] percentage results are virtually unchanged from our four earlier polls (February 2009, June 2009, November 2009, February 2010 and July [...]

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  4. 17,724 Say “Yes” to Ron Paul 2012 | Daily Libertarian

    [...] percentage results are virtually unchanged from our four earlier polls (February 2009, June 2009, November 2009, February [...]

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  5. 17,724 Say “Yes” to Ron Paul 2012 | Ron Paul .com

    [...] percentage results are virtually unchanged from our four earlier polls (February 2009, June 2009, November 2009, February [...]

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  6. 20,000+ Say “Yes” to Ron Paul 2012 | Ron Paul .com

    [...] 21,796The percentage results are virtually unchanged from our three 2009 polls (February 2009, June 2009, November 2009):92% (down from 94%) of our readers want Ron Paul to run for President in 2012.4% [...]

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  7. Ron Paul 2012 – Poll Results | Ron Paul .com

    [...] week we asked the question, “Should Ron Paul should run for President in [...]

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  8. Ron Paul 2012 Poll Results | Ron Paul .com

    [...] results are virtually unchanged from our February poll and June poll: 94% (up from 93%) of our readers want Ron Paul to run for President in 2012. 3% (no change) [...]

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  9. geekmom

    this thread has become as off topic as most of the items in obama’s stimulus package.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  10. Wild Blue

    Hey Catherine…

    You know the ‘friend’ who responded to your article earlier, the one who knew so much about military history… See what s/he thinks about the Kay Griggs videos on Google… http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=182423138094287597 she has some pretty damning things to say about the higher echelons of the government and military, but some of the things seem to lack credibility… I would like to have an opinion from someone on the inside

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  11. Cobra7775

    Sean,
    You have no idea what you are talking about do you. I am talking about a philosophical concept. I am in no way an idealist, I am a realist,a rationalist and an empiricist,philosophically. I’m pretty sure you don’t even understand those terms. But when it comes to charting solutions in the real world you need to be a pragmatist. Nikie, who I was addressing,is a self described liberal and as indicated by her beliefs stated here, an idealist. Not only that but here ideas aren’t consistent she is irrational as you appear to be as well. As for you reference to the Renaissance,I don’t know to which particular Renaissance you are referring. The 12th century,the 14th century,perhaps the 16th century? I don’t even know what it is you are trying to say.Perhaps you can clarify your statements,if they actually mean anything at all. Perhaps you were refering to the 14th to 17th century Italian Renaissance? I don’t know what you are trying to imply,but your last two posts are irrelevent. Did you finish high school or are you still in high school?

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. Sean

      secular humanism – Also called secularism, this philosophy advocates human rather than religious values. A powerful intellectual force behind the Renaissance (as well as since), especially stimulating studies of the sciences, when for centuries scholarship had been focused almost exclusively upon issues of faith.

      I learned that in college.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      1. Sean

        You don’t know what your talking about. This is what you and this whole page are.

        Idealism (Philosophy)- the tendency to represent things in an ideal form, or as they might or should be rather than as they are, with emphasis on values.

        You are an idealist, and a prick

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      2. Cobra7775

        Sean,
        You still have no context to your posts. Looking up the definitions for secular humanism and idealism and posting them here is ridiculous. I know what the terms mean, you on the other hand can’t put them in proper context. I still don’t know what you are trying to say about the secular influence during the Renaissance. Your post : ” look what secular did to the Renaissance is meaningless, didn’t you read the definiton you looked up? Secular humanism was one of the forces behind the Renaissance movement that happened all over Europe but I wasn’t talking about secular humanism as much as I was about secular relatavism. ( Hurry up, go look that up ) Please stop posting here if you can’t formulate even rudimentary coherent thoughts. Don’t waste my time.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        1. Sean

          haha what? you cried and said you weren’t an idealist so I told you what the definition was to correct you..
          And I guess you dont know what the reformation period was. Hurry, go look that up.. hahaha, you obviously don’t know anything about the renaissance, so i’m not even going to try and argue with you about it. Grow up.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          1. Cobra7775

            Sean,

            You are completely incoherent. I can’t tell what point you are attempting to argue. Perhaps there is a chat room on a Disney site where you can go and argue with people of your own age and intellectual level. You obviously can’t manage interacting with other adults. You haven’t made a single lucid point about anything I was writing about.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          2. Sean

            i called you and idealist and i said that seperation from church and state would do us good. and i was refering to the renaissance when there was a speration of church and state. The secular movement was the intellectual backbone of this huge culture shift.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      3. geekmom

        A lot of things are taught in college and many of those things are ‘ideals’ and opinions taught by people who either a) couldn’t compete in the real world b) wanted to teach what they felt was right c) wanted to shape students to what they think is right. In fact, one person’s opinion of a definition could be completely shaped by a professor’s teaching and have no relevance of actual truth.

        I haven’t read the thread so I don’t know much about what is going on in this specific topic, and I don’t have time to try. While skimming for my post I noticed “I learned that in college” and it just made me laugh.

        A good degree in college is brain surgery or computer science because you’re learning about the mechanics of something and not relying on some knee-jerk reaction.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        1. Sean

          You obviously didn’t go to college. Teachers have guidlines they have to follow. They have to go by the book.. We were talking about sarah palin but some people thought it would be more fun to talk about abortion and philosophy. I honestly don’t know what cobra is talking about. He’s crying about someone having different views other than ron paul.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          1. geekmom

            actually, i did. computer science and business management. professors and teachers do not always go by the book.

            our algebra textbook was completely based on the author’s opinion of society, world peace, over population, and global warming. it was a real drag.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          2. Sean

            sorry for being a jerk. I don’t see how algebra can be based on society and global warming… I’ve been going to school for 3 years now and every class i’ve had goes by the book. Teachers are just the middle man. They aren’t allowed to make any of their tests or dictate the classroom.. On the other hand, all teachers do incorporate their own thoughts into the work and try to inspire people. I love school, i’ve never had my mind opened so much. You know your brain activity increases up to three times as much when you go to school everyday and learn.. Half the people in here don’t have any brain activity whatsoever. They can’t think or say anything for themselves. You can usually pick them out.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. longshotlouie

      lmao

      Sean, you are crumbling.

      Keep lashing out

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      1. Nate D

        He’s lashing out because of his continued display of stupidity. As does everyone who tries to “debate” with him, if you can call it that. You fill these post with non sense to distract people from discussing the real problems. What is your agenda?

        I’ll say it again, what is your agenda you piece of low life dirt?

        Sean will waste your time, and will never give up. He’ll post five reply’s after mine and try to argue a point, whatever that point may be. Whether it’s my intelligence or his. It’s in all his posts, if you want to waste your time read through his non sense, and get a true understanding of who this prick is.

        You and Harry Anslinger both had an agenda and cares nothing about the truth of the subject. I disrespect both of you as low life humans. You are both worthless and the world would be much better off without people like you. So f off Sean, no one likes you, and no one takes your bs (bad science) to heart.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        1. Sean

          you were obviously hurt as a child or still are one, grow up.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          1. Sean

            its funny how i prove you wrong over and over so now you have nothing to else to say. Now you take time out of your life to insult others who don’t care what you think. That makes you pathetic in my eyes. If you don’t have anything intelligent to say, please stop replying to my posts and wasting my time. I’m working right now, I have a life. Please stay out of it.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          2. Nate D

            lol, ha ha ha ha ho ho ha ha ha… Proven me wrong! Ha ha ha ha ha. I’d say the same about you. Show me one, just one instant where you proved me wrong… none, that’s why I harass you, because you bring nothing new to the table. It’s the same sh^t over and over. I enjoy giving you sh^t, cause that’s what you are. And if you wanted me to stop wasting your time.. Here’s one way.. don’t respond!! lol ha ha ha ha ha, that’s what I did to you, but you can’t do that because sh^t always responds in an expected manner. Peace low life

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  12. Cobra7775

    Nikie,
    You are really insane. You claim you respect Ron Pauls ideas when your ideas are diametrically opposed to his ideas. You are here to engage others in arguing over your unsupportable positions. You are a secular,liberal relativist and an idealist. You can’t even be logically consistent in your own words and deeds. The last post of yours I responded to you claimed that you have nothing further to say yet here you are again posting more inane drivel.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. Sean

      its not insane to think differently about different subjects. I respect ron paul’s ideas but i dont agree with everything he says. Somebody might like the color blue and red but not like the color brown. Does that make them an idealist? We’re not hardcore politicians, but regular people with regular ideas.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      1. Sean

        It sounds like your the idealist. Look what secular did to the Renaissance.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  13. Nikie Nichols

    Nate,

    Eat all the meat you want until you have your fill. Eat jerky as well and dig your grave with your teeth. While you are dying of cancer remember that the toxins from the flesh of animals stay in your intestines for months!! I happen to know of people who died of cancer of the pancreas and liver because of eating beef daily. The doctors will never tell you and neither will your government. Go ahead and eat all the meat you want and make my day!!!

    Great men have quoted that you judge a civilized nation by the way it treats its animals!!! I am on Ron Paul’s forum because I respect his ideas. I cannot say the same for you. However, under the circumstances I hate to find myself in a place, even a forum, where I have to interact with people like you. You are beneath contempt.

    Just for your information, the American people have spoken and made their choice last November. The majority rules!!! And yes, I am proud to be a liberal because I am liberated and free. I am not obsessed with Jonestown cults like the one you carry around like a disease. Rome is burning and all you think about is abortion. People live in tents, have no jobs or money. The stores are deserted, the country is in trouble and all you think about is abortion. And don’t go blaming Obama for the mess he inherited. No matter who took over from the last administration, the mess is too horrendous for a quick fix. In fact it might not even be fixable. No one knows. It is all speculation and in God’s hands. Why don’t you go take a walk and stop at some restaurant and have a nice steak? I am sure it will make you feel so much better about things . . . for now!!!!

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  14. longshotlouie

    Fourth Estate Gives Left Cover For The Fourth Reich
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzzpLEbZ6Bw&feature=channel_page

    Keep The Change

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  15. Nikie Nichols

    Thank you, Sean. You said it for me.

    If I judge Sara Palin I do so with a clear conscience and godly inspiration. Trying to stop someone from her/his killing spree is not judging. She is a killer, period. I don’t care whether she supports abortion or opposes it. That’s not my concern. My concern is her sick mindset in killing innocent wolves and executing wolf pups in their den. What did they do to her out in the wild? Did they interfere with her lifestyle or her trips with her children? They live out in the wild and she makes it her business of hunting them down in their own environment.

    Sean, I am a vegetarian. I have not eaten veal, ever! I don’t even know what it tastes like. I used to eat meat years ago, and then one day I had a rude awakening and realized what the human race is doing to these animals. Furthermore, meat is a cancer causing factor. I just read a report about meat and the accumulation of toxins in the intestines. The meat industry does not want you to know, too much money at stake. They would rather have you dying of cancer than stop eating meat.

    If we do not speak up for the animals, who will? They are at our mercy. Elephants in circuses, elephants in zoos, horses taken over the border to Mexico and getting slaughtered. Have you ever heard of slaughtering horses? That’s not only brutal and uncivilized it is primitive. How can those people who slaughter horses go to sleep at night? However, since those horses are slaughtered in Mexico and Mexicans do not believe in abortion, supposedly they are Christians!!! We live in a hypocritical world that’s totally evil because humans make it so. May God have mercy on our souls. Since we do not protest these evil deeds it makes us accessories to the killing.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  16. Cobra7775

    Nickie,

    You seem to have difficulty with your reasoning ability. First you tell people to never judge others and then proceed to do just that. This is your quote: Do not judge!!! Have you heard of that one? Judging others is the worst sin ever. No matter what anyone does, even murder, you do not judge. Why? Because the Creator is the only one who has the right to judge. Then you say,” I do not let anyone brainwash me. I use my own brain and judgment and know what is right and what is wrong. You may not be brain washed but you are illogical and irrational. How can you justify judging Sarah Palin’s alleged actions,” for her advocacy of aerial killing of wolves and bears.” Are you the Creator? And I believe in the Christian faith that Jesus is the judge of man.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. Sean

      Matt 7:2-5 “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly with honesty and justice, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other ignoble means, our judgment will reflect it and judging with fairness and compassion will garner likewise in His judgment of us]. ”

      Let the who has not sin cast the first stone.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. The Word

      How many times have you heard someone whine, “Judge not, that ye be not judged?” This verse of Scripture from Matthew 7:1 is often quoted out of context by people who are terrified at the idea of someone preaching against sin or pointing out any form of error in anyone, especially in themselves.

      As I stood in a voting line one day I overheard a woman justifying her foolish choice for president by saying, “Well, we aren’t supposed to judge.” Imagine that! Choosing NOT to judge a political candidate on election day! No wonder our nation is in such a mess!

      As for Matthew 7:1, the context (verses 1-5) allows judging after you have first judged YOURSELF. Jesus did not make a blanket statement against judgment. He simply pointed out a RULE for judging.

      Now, the word “judge” in its various forms (judgeth, judging, judgment, judges, etc) is found over 700 times in God’s word. One whole book of the Bible is titled “Judges” for it was written at a time when God raised up judges to lead His people.

      As we are about to see, God EXPECTS His people to judge. In fact, you are sinning against God if you refuse to judge! (Read that again, please)

      God Expects Us to Judge

      “The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.” (Psa. 37:30) A righteous person will talk of judgment. He will not REFUSE to judge. He will talk judgment.

      “Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.” (Amos 5:14-15) How can you hate the evil and love the good if you refuse to judge? You can’t. You are SINNING when you refuse to judge.

      Our generation is well described in Isaiah 59:8: “The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.” People have refused to judge, so there is no peace.

      Paul said in I Corinthians 1:10 to “. . . be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” Why would Paul make such a statement if judging is wrong? In I Corinthians 2:15 Paul says, “But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.” Judging is not a sin; judging is a characteristic of being a spiritual person! Satan has been lying to us, hoping that we will NOT judge, because he knows that the right kind of judgment PLEASES God and betters our lives and Christian service.

      Someone says, “But should we judge PEOPLE?” Yes, we certainly should. Paul actually REBUKES the Corinthians for NOT judging: “Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?” (I Cor. 6:1-5) If judging is wrong, then Paul needs to confess and repent for misleading these Christians! He clearly told them to JUDGE PEOPLE.

      If judging people is wrong, how can we obey Romans 16:17-18? II Corinthians 6:17? II Timothy 3:5-6? I John 4:1? Friend, if judging is wrong, then God has contradicted Himself and His words cannot be trusted!

      Notice Malachi 3:18: “Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.” WOW! Does that sound like it is wrong to judge?

      What about Revelation 2:2? ” I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:” Why would the Lord be pleased with these Christians if judging was wrong? Is it not impossible to find someone a “liar” without judging them?

      If the Bible is clear about anything, it is clear about the importance of judging on a regular basis in order to properly serve and honor God. To ignore this fact is to ignore all of the Scripture just presented and also the rest of the Bible. God expects us to judge.

      God’s Rules for Judging

      Now I do not wish to imply that we should spend all of our time judging. Sometimes people judge when they have no business doing so. In John 7:24 Jesus tells us to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment. This can only be done by following the rules that God has established in His word. Here follow seven good rules from Scripture:

      Judge Scripturally

      Isaiah 8:20 says, “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Our standard is God’s word, not our feelings, our traditions, or our opinions. Right and wrong should always be determined by God’s word.

      Don’t Judge When God’s Word Is Silent

      If God’s word is silent about a subject, then you may not have to judge at all. Don’t rush to judgment on an issue when the Bible says very little or is silent about it. Don’t make more of a matter than God makes of it. A good example of this is found in Colossians 2:16: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” That is, these are not subjects of great importance today, so let’s not make these great issues of judgment.

      Pray for Good Judgement Ability

      When Solomon received his kingdom he asked God to “Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?” (I Kings 3:9) James 1:5 says, “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” We should pray for good judgment ability.

      Don’t Respect Persons

      Proverbs 24:23 says, “These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.” Treat all parties fairly without favoring anyone, such as family members or friends. A truly fair judge is blind and deaf to any outer influence. (Isa. 42:1, 19-21)

      Judge in Truth

      Do not judge another when you do not have all the relevant facts. Jeremiah 5:1 says, “Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it.” A true judge is one who seeks the truth. If you must judge, be sure and get all the facts. A Japanese proverb says to “search seven times before you judge.”

      Judge Mercifully

      Remember the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:2: “For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” You’ll reap what you sow (Gal. 6:7-8). If you are swift and harsh in judging others, then God will see to it that you receive the same from others. Has God not been very merciful to you, even though you deserved it not? Likewise, you should exercise mercy toward others.

      Don’t Forget to Judge Yourself

      I Corinthians 11:30-31: “For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.” If you are a true Christian, then you belong to God. You are God’s child. If you refuse to judge and improve yourself as a child of God, then God will take it upon Himself to judge you. Many of the troubles that we face in life are nothing more than God’s way of judging us since we often neglect to judge ourselves.

      Wouldn’t it be amazing if every Christian actually took time to judge themselves before judging anyone else? In Matthew 7:4-5, Jesus says, ” Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” A good judge will not fail to judge himself.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      1. Christine

        We are to discern, not judge. There is a difference.

        Judgment comes with an attempt to condemn. That we are not to do. We do not truly know the heart of another human being so we are not in a position to condemn anyone. Plenty of advice in the scriptures to tell us not to engage in judging others.

        All individual experiences are for each of us so we can learn lessons along our spiritual path. Lessons happen whether one realizes they are on a spiritual journey or not.

        On the other hand…
        Discernment comes when you listen to your intuition, your voice of God. You can only do that when your mind is still. Be still and know that I am God. This is where your guidance comes from. It is advice that is beyond what you as a human could know for sure. It is your choice, either listen and follow it, or ignore it. Each of us has this gift and the guidance is for our own selves to guide us through particular situations to reach new understandings as we develop.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  17. Nikie Nichols

    Ruth,

    You don’t even understand the word “Christian.” I will leave it at that because I don’t discuss highly intellectual topics with sickos. I was only defending helpless and innocent animals when this nut Nate jumped in and started comparing apples and oranges.

    I don’t give a damn what you think or believe and I am not trying to convince you. I do not necessarily believe in abortion if I have a choice. But there are cases where a woman does not have a choice, period. The wealthy ones go abroad and have an abortion, without asking your permission!!! The poor folk who have no money are stuck because of people like you. Do you have any idea of other people’s circumstances? First and utmost you sit in Judgment which is totally against Jesus’s teachings. Do not judge!!! Have you heard of that one? Judging others is the worst sin ever. No matter what anyone does, even murder, you do not judge. Why? Because the Creator is the only one who has the right to judge.

    Having said that, I do not care nor do I want to enter into a discussion with someone who is totally brain washed as all of you people are. You remind me of the Jonestown cult. And just so that you know, I am NOT religious. I do not let anyone brainwash me. I use my own brain and judgment and know what is right and what is wrong. You make me sick. It is up to me and society to take care of those children after they are born? Have you taken care of any of those kids, Miss Righteous?? Jesus called all of you Hypocrites and Pharisees. Well, how many kids did you fish out of the garbage cans? How many kids did you feed? You expect society to take care of them? That’s just it you idiot. Society does not give a rat’s ass. Society does not care if they step over you and leave you there on the pavement bleeding. Those kids that are born into this merciless world unwanted and unloved are doomed. But, do you think I am going to take the trouble to change your sick and brainwashed mind? Not on your Nellie!!! I will not stoop down to your level and enter a highly controversial and intellectual topic with you. Over-religious individuals are contaminated with an incurable disease and they should stop trying to convince others of their beliefs. I am not trying to convince you of my beliefs. All I want is for animals to be protected and loved. That was my original argument. I have nothing further to say. Oh, and don’t bother replying because you will get no further reply from me.

    I have nothing more to say to you or to any of you sickos. My argument was NOT about abortion. But, you went out of your way to twist my words and turn it into the topic you love. Abortion!!!

    Well, sorry to disappoint you. I am not interested in the topic myself and neither am I here to lecture you or the likes of you what is right or wrong. I am here to make my case against Sara Palin for her advocacy of aerial killing of wolves and bears. I belong to the Wildlife Society and many other animal causes and I am passionate about animals. I also advocate freedom of the individual as our Creator meant it to be. We are born FREE and not another soul should be allowed to exercise control over me, my thoughts or decisions unless they interfere with the law of the land in which I live.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. Sean

      Thats so funny, some of them are against abortion but eat veal even when we live in a civilized manner and we really don’t need to kill to eat. In fact, sarah palin isn’t killing the wolves so she can eat. She’s killing the wolves so she can hunt prize game. That’s so bad, it’s unheard of. I’ve never heard about people doing this before her. Good point.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. nate

      Nikie,
      I think you have mistaken the sicko… You and Sean are in good company in the sicko camp and I am quite puzzled why either of you are on a Ron Paul website. Hopefully you are being schooled in true economic and social conservatism. Conservatism starts with freedom, life and true free market capitalism. No where in the Constitution were animals given the same rights as citizens. I find it quite amazing that you would call someone a murderer for killing an animal and in the same breath justify the true murder of human being wanted or unwanted. Killing an unborn baby is looked at as murder throughout our country’s history until a bunch of liberals took over the court in the 70′s and now people can murder babies legally. I always find it amusing how pro-abortion people bring up the 0.0005% cases to justify the other millions that have no justification. Babies come into the world everyday that are born into poor environments… what is justifiable next in your mind Nikie and Sean? The Chinese birth control rules for the good of society?

      Go kiss your cats and eat your salad… while I enjoy some good steak for dinner… and I may cap the meal off with some good deer jerky from a harvested innocent deer.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  18. longshotlouie

    “Some have called this ‘socialism with American characteristics’. But socialism is concerned about ordinary individuals. By contrast, the US has provided little help for the millions of its people who are losing their homes. Workers who lose their jobs receive only 39 weeks of limited unemployment benefits, and are then left on their own. And, when they lose their jobs, most also lose their health insurance.America has expanded its corporate safety net in unprecedented ways, from commercial banks to investment banks, then to insurance, and now to cars, with no end in sight. In truth, this is not socialism, but an extension of long-standing corporate welfarism. The rich and powerful turn to the Government to help them whenever they can, while needy individuals get little social protection.

    We need to break up the too-big-to-fail banks; there is no evidence that these behemoths deliver societal benefits that are commensurate with the costs they have imposed.

    This raises another problem with America’s too-big-to-fail, too-big-to-be-restructured banks: they are too politically powerful. Their lobbying efforts worked well, first to deregulate, and then to have taxpayers pay for the clean-up. Their hope is that it will work again to keep them free to do as they please, regardless of the risks for taxpayers and the economy. We cannot afford to let that happen.”

    - Joseph Stiglitz

    hmmmmm, This guy is only a Nobel Prize winning economist.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. Matt

      I do like Mr. Stiglitz, but I am very wary of this comment ‘We need to break up the too-big-to-fail banks;’.

      As a tangent, I do find it interesting someone on this board would ascribe to his thoughts – one cannot give any of this quote weight unless one were to accept the concept of ‘too big to fail’, which is completely animus in these parts. I have believed RP seems to be of the ‘just let it all fail’ ideology, which I partially agree with, but having watched the speed of degradation last year I believe there is certainly something to be said for preventing a tail outcome. As thus, I tend to agree with Mr. Stiglitz at least in that regard.

      It’s a very thorny issue and a fascinating conversation, I mean, how would one determine ‘too-big-to-fail’, what threshold would you use? Competance? Counterparty exposure?

      If the biggest banks now are the ones that have been the most successful, i.e. have the best management and banking skills, let them continue to succeed. Don’t forget a lot of banks, and some very large ones, failed on their own last year – and now Mr. Stiglitz would punish those that succeeded in the wake of this capitalistic upheavel by breaking them up? Leaving only those banks that were not as successful?

      I suspect there is more to his comments, but maybe not…

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      1. Nate Y

        I suspect, as with most things, you are completely missing the point, misreading the arguments, and willfully obfuscating the facts.

        Stiglitz is only adding to the confusion. We don’t need to break up the “too big to fail” banks because no such bank exists. No company is too big to fail.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        1. longshotlouie

          “We don’t need to break up the “too big to fail” banks because no such bank exists.”

          Reading Mr. Stiglitz words, I believe that is exactly what he meant.
          No confusion here.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          1. Matt

            Huh? What the heck are you talking about? Here is Stiglitz’s exact quote, and you are telling me I am ‘misreading and obfuscating’ when I found it interesting that Stiglitz believes there are banks that are ‘too big to fail’? He doesn’t use the word ‘hypothetical’, he is talking about ‘too big to fail banks’, lol. Read his quote:

            “We need to break up the too-big-to-fail banks; there is no evidence that these behemoths deliver societal benefits that are commensurate with the costs they have imposed.

            This raises another problem with America’s too-big-to-fail, too-big-to-be-restructured banks: they are too politically powerful.”

            He isn’t talking about them like they are a tooth fairy or a leprechaun, he is saying ‘too big to fail banks’ ARE an issue and we DO need to break them up.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          2. Nate Y

            Okay then. Instead of trying to explain the subtle difference I was focusing on, I’ll just concede that I made a mistake.

            Go Stiglitz!

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          3. longshotlouie
  19. Nikie Nichols

    I wonder if after the babies are born anyone of you that oppose abortion so passionately have checked on their welfare. Have you checked to see if they have enough food to eat, or if their mothers have enough money to take their babies to the doctor? Or if the baby is abused, or found dead in a garbage can? All you care about is for that baby to be born. How the baby fares after birth is of no consequence to you hypocritical ignoramus. Do you know how many kids go hungry in this country? Do you know how many go without health care? Do you know how many go without LOVE? How many end up dead? This is the ONLY country in the world where children are so badly abused, killed by their parents, drowned, shot, sexually molested, name it. Why would I want to bring a soul in this miserable world unless that soul is going to find love and nurture? What is the point? Talk about killing babies but you don’t give a hoot after the babies are born that’s what is so hypocritical and ugly.

    Even the so called ignorant natives in Papua New Guinea where I lived for many years exercise birth control. They are not as ignorant and as uncivilized as you might imagine. The women go walk-about into the bush and they chew on some herb which serves as birth control. They will not reveal their secret to the whites and I don’t blame them. No body taught them, no body dictated to them. They exercise their God-given right and free will.

    Who are you to dictate to other women whether they should have babies or not? You use the Lord’s name in vain for your sick and diseased ideas. Those natives are FREE. In this country where we are supposedly free we have sickos like you and Sara Palin dictating to the rest of us how we should conduct our lives. Just for your information, if abortion or birth control is indeed a sin as you advocate, then this is between me and my Maker. When I die I will face Him and it is up to Him to judge me. Jesus said in no uncertain terms, “Those without sin cast the first stone.” Oh, and by the way. Stop quoting from the Old Testament. It is the New Testament you should observe if you are or call yourself a Christian. Are you without sin??? Just the fact that you sit in judgment of others, no matter what the reason, makes you a sinner. I judge Sara Palin but not because of her ideology but because she is a killer of innocent animals. Just because they are a different species that does not make them a prey for us to hunt and kill. I don’t give a hoot about her ideology or yours for that matter. It is because of people like you and Sara Palin that this country has gotten a bad wrap.

    If you had evolved as a decent human being you would condemn any kind of hunting. Do you know what it means to evolve? And, I am not talking about physical evolution. I am referring to evolution of the mind which you obviously do not possess. You have already missed the boat. Evolving spiritually takes a special kind of human and obviously you are far from special . . . or even human!!!!!

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. ruth shepherd

      Dear Nikie,
      You seem so angry because Christians choose life. You say that woman have a right to decide. If you believe this to be so, you should work hard on overturning the suicide law. I mean no one has a choice in this matter, male or female and this is there body too. Now the country wants to force a person to have medical treatment, and to have their children given to the courts if the majority doesn’t get there way. All kind of interference in ones life from what I can see. You want freedom out of one side of your mouth and then when it doesn’t suit you, you want it another way.
      The Christian church has 7 sacraments, one of these is marriage- another is baptism. The Jewish church has marriage as its’ religious rite. Governments never married people until the whole of the Roman Empire became Christian. Marriage is only legalized in the eyes of God by the (means of Gods’grace)in the Jewish or Christian Church. Governments have no right to marry, as they have no rights to baptise.
      Be informed that God runs this world. Yes, you have your choice and I do agree with you that you can chose to kill your baby if that is what you are determined to do. But if this is what you have morally chosen to do, why bring the masses in on it? I don’t want to pay for your abortion, I don’t want to be an accessary after the fact. Don’t drag me in on your choice. Oh, but their are so many poor people that can’t afford to pay for an abortion. Well poor people have a hard time paying for many things- so are you saying that society has to pay for everything that poor people can’t afford even if it goes agains their moral, values and choices? Are you saying that you have your rights but no one else has theirs? You have your choice but I don’t have mine?
      Those women in New Guinea, did not depend on other to suffer in their choice, that is the big difference. No one else had to atone or pay for their choice.
      As far a children coming into this world that are abused or unwanted, is it for you or society to determine their life as to if they should have it or they shouldn’t have it? If it is your choice for yourself then make it and pay for it. You don’t have the right to determine my choices or any one elses. If you do –then I have no choice. Seraphima

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. nate

      How can you possibly defend animals like they are humans and then say innocent babies shouldn’t get a chance? That is the problem with today’s society… every American has the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Somehow all you liberals think this somehow doesn’t apply to babies in the womb and then in the same breath say that we shouldn’t kill “innocent” wolves and bears that are menaces and threats to people. Babies in the womb are counted as people in court if a pregnant woman is murdered, or if she is killed by a drunk driver.. but if they mother doesn’t want the child because it is inconvenient than magically they lose all their rights to live.

      I am sure you would count an animal fetus as being killed please re-think your attitude towards the little person that deserves their chance no matter what environment they are being born into.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    3. Chrsitine

      I hate it when people state what have you done to help these “unwanted babies”. The reason why it is such a terrible thing to say, is that these people who claim these children are going hungry, have no medical care, neglected, etc… are doing absolutely nothing to help their neighbors in need.

      They live in their little world complaining about those around them. They are not willing to take a child in need to the playground for a few hours to give the mother a break so she can get some things done. They do not bring a meal over when they know their is no food in the house. The odds are they don’t even know someone is hungry, because they are so self centered and selfish. How many times have they driven someone to the doctors or a children’s hospital for the proper medical care. Probably never, because it would mean that they would have to be involved with caring for someone other than themselves.

      No, they just want to sit and complain and say kill the babies, nobody wants them. It is just you that doesn’t want them. It is just you who would rather have them dead so that you won’t have to take part in doing anything to make their lives better. You are the one that wants to live in a perfect LITTLE world. A little world where nothing interferes with your day.

      Now, what have I personally done.

      The first boy I fostered was abandoned at the hospital. He was pre-mature and had many health problems. 6 years later I met a young girl who had done drugs and alcohol during her early pregnancy. I told her if she carried the child to full term, I would adopt that child. The oldest is now 22, the youngest is 15.

      I can not even begin to count the kids (mostly boys) that have gone through my house. It may have been for a week or a year. Guess what my pay was!?!? Nothing. Yes, they were just dropped off. Most of the time they were special needs, or bad parenting children. Was it hard? Yes! Did social services leave me alone. Yes! They didn’t want another one of these “unwanted” children on their doorstep. Do I keep track of the kids. I try. Some parents and/or kids have come back and said thank you. This was more than enough reward.

      My oldest son volunteered at the VA hospital from the age of 12 years old to 15. He has done all kinds of volunteering, but I am most proud of how he took care of the older men who fought for the freedom of our country.

      My youngest son volunteers at a soup and sandwich kitchen.

      We also do clean-ups. Whether it be the local lake, canal, river, park or street, we are out their volunteering our time to make this world a better world.

      I don’t hunt or fish. Both boys received their hunting license. They have hunted and I have cooked what they brought home. These are survival skills that we may need again someday. There is nothing wrong with having these skills. It is not against nature to hunt.

      So for all of you that complain about all the problems society suffers because of these “unwanted” babies, get off your ass and help these families. Don’t just sit there and complain. Do something to make this world a better place. And killing these babies will not make this world a better place. Only YOU can make this world a better place by stepping up and being part of the world around you. Stop living in your selfish, tiny, ego centric world and help those around you.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  20. Nikie Nichols

    nate,

    A person who has no compassion for animals has NO compassion for humans. If you don’t care about wolves and bears in Alaska you don’t have a clue about the echo system. Every life God creates is created for a reason and no one has the right to kill, kill, kill. If you have the executive power to kill then I don’t even want to imagine how far she will go. Obviously, you are not an animal lover and therefore you and I are on a different wavelength. No point for further discussion. Sara Palin personifies the American ignoramus redneck who thinks if given a gun she can solve the world’s problems.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. nate

      I have tons of compassion for both… just not for random WILD animals in Alaska or other places. Hunting is a right that goes back far before the founding of our great country. If people didn’t hunt the country would be overrun by wild animals. i would much rather talk about the killing of innocent babies before the hunting of wild animals. Abortion kills far more HUMANS than any hunter who harvests wild animals. Once, we rid ourselves of that legal killing then maybe we can debate all these animal rights nutjobs.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      1. Sean

        You are a wild animal.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        1. nate

          no Sean… I am a man, created in God’s image.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          1. Nate Y

            The One True God no doubt.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          2. Sean

            God is a fake. Christianity only became popular because of the dark ages. Thats so funny. You two listen to whatever you hear and believe it with all your heart. Here, watch this.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61ReohCr35U

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          3. Sean

            I studied the history of literature in college. I wrote a ten page paper about plagiarism throughout historical text.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          4. Christine

            Created in his image means you have the qualities of God. You have the capabilities of being compassionate, joy-filled, caring, kind, all the fruits of the spirit. The bible says God is love. That’s the definition of God, LOVE. For mathematicians, God = Love.

            So for those who wonder who or what God is, and if God is out there somewhere, there you have it! It’s the energy of love. It’s in everything and in everyone and you are surrounded by it, all the time. There is no place that God is not.

            And for those who have been asked the question or ask themselves the question, Do you believe in God? what you are asking is …Do you believe in Love? Same deal.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        2. Nate Y

          Uhhh…I have no god belief. That should have been quite apparent from my previous post.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  21. nate

    This is an interesting post… Palin obviously was changed for the campaign. Before becoming the “candidate” she had a solid history of not being liked by either party because she stepped on toes. We need a few more of her in Congress along with Ron Paul. Republicans hold on to Iraq like the holy grail much like Democrats did with Vietnam. One day, they will realize it wasn’t worth selling their souls for and then allowing idiots like Obama get in charge. Huckabee was an interesting candidate but has way too much of a history of big spending for my tastes. All the “zionist” talk is why Ron Paul people are called kooks. Israel is an important country in the Middle East but as Ron Paul has said numerous times in his books… if we stop giving money to all their enemies then we wouldn’t have to give any money to them to fight them all off.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  22. Chrsitine

    On the Duty of Civil Disobedience
    by Henry David Thoreau

    [1849, original title: Resistance to Civil Government]

    I heartily accept the motto, “That government is best which governs least”; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe–”That government is best which governs not at all”; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which the will have. Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient. The objections which have been brought against a standing army, and they are many and weighty, and deserve to prevail, may also at last be brought against a standing government. The standing army is only an arm of the standing government. The government itself, which is only the mode which the people have chosen to execute their will, is equally liable to be abused and perverted before the people can act through it. Witness the present Mexican war, the work of comparatively a few individuals using the standing government as their tool; for in the outset, the people would not have consented to this measure.

    This American government–what is it but a tradition, though a recent one, endeavoring to transmit itself unimpaired to posterity, but each instant losing some of its integrity? It has not the vitality and force of a single living man; for a single man can bend it to his will. It is a sort of wooden gun to the people themselves. But it is not the less necessary for this; for the people must have some complicated machinery or other, and hear its din, to satisfy that idea of government which they have. Governments show thus how successfully men can be imposed upon, even impose on themselves, for their own advantage. It is excellent, we must all allow. Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of its way. It does not keep the country free. It does not settle the West. It does not educate. The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. For government is an expedient, by which men would fain succeed in letting one another alone; and, as has been said, when it is most expedient, the governed are most let alone by it. Trade and commerce, if they were not made of india-rubber, would never manage to bounce over obstacles which legislators are continually putting in their way; and if one were to judge these men wholly by the effects of their actions and not partly by their intentions, they would deserve to be classed and punished with those mischievious persons who put obstructions on the railroads.

    But, to speak practically and as a citizen, unlike those who call themselves no-government men, I ask for, not at one no government, but at once a better government. Let every man make known what kind of government would command his respect, and that will be one step toward obtaining it.

    After all, the practical reason why, when the power is once in the hands of the people, a majority are permitted, and for a long period continue, to rule is not because they are most likely to be in the right, nor because this seems fairest to the minority, but because they are physically the strongest. But a government in which the majority rule in all cases can not be based on justice, even as far as men understand it. Can there not be a government in which the majorities do not virtually decide right and wrong, but conscience?–in which majorities decide only those questions to which the rule of expediency is applicable? Must the citizen ever for a moment, or in the least degree, resign his conscience to the legislator? Why has every man a conscience then? I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right. The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think right. It is truly enough said that a corporation has no conscience; but a corporation on conscientious men is a corporation with a conscience. Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents on injustice. A common and natural result of an undue respect for the law is, that you may see a file of soldiers, colonel, captain, corporal, privates, powder-monkeys, and all, marching in admirable order over hill and dale to the wars, against their wills, ay, against their common sense and consciences, which makes it very steep marching indeed, and produces a palpitation of the heart. They have no doubt that it is a damnable business in which they are concerned; they are all peaceably inclined. Now, what are they? Men at all? or small movable forts and magazines, at the service of some unscrupulous man in power? Visit the Navy Yard, and behold a marine, such a man as an American government can make, or such as it can make a man with its black arts–a mere shadow and reminiscence of humanity, a man laid out alive and standing, and already, as one may say, buried under arms with funeral accompaniment, though it may be,

    “Not a drum was heard, not a funeral note,
    As his corse to the rampart we hurried;
    Not a soldier discharged his farewell shot
    O’er the grave where out hero was buried.”

    The mass of men serve the state thus, not as men mainly, but as machines, with their bodies. They are the standing army, and the militia, jailers, constables, posse comitatus, etc. In most cases there is no free exercise whatever of the judgement or of the moral sense; but they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones; and wooden men can perhaps be manufactured that will serve the purpose as well. Such command no more respect than men of straw or a lump of dirt. They have the same sort of worth only as horses and dogs. Yet such as these even are commonly esteemed good citizens. Others–as most legislators, politicians, lawyers, ministers, and office-holders–serve the state chiefly with their heads; and, as the rarely make any moral distinctions, they are as likely to serve the devil, without intending it, as God. A very few–as heroes, patriots, martyrs, reformers in the great sense, and men–serve the state with their consciences also, and so necessarily resist it for the most part; and they are commonly treated as enemies by it. A wise man will only be useful as a man, and will not submit to be “clay,” and “stop a hole to keep the wind away,” but leave that office to his dust at least:

    “I am too high born to be propertied,
    To be a second at control,
    Or useful serving-man and instrument
    To any sovereign state throughout the world.”

    He who gives himself entirely to his fellow men appears to them useless and selfish; but he who gives himself partially to them in pronounced a benefactor and philanthropist.

    How does it become a man to behave toward the American government today? I answer, that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it. I cannot for an instant recognize that political organization as my government which is the slave’s government also.

    All men recognize the right of revolution; that is, the right to refuse allegiance to, and to resist, the government, when its tyranny or its inefficiency are great and unendurable. But almost all say that such is not the case now. But such was the case, they think, in the Revolution of ’75. If one were to tell me that this was a bad government because it taxed certain foreign commodities brought to its ports, it is most probable that I should not make an ado about it, for I can do without them. All machines have their friction; and possibly this does enough good to counter-balance the evil. At any rate, it is a great evil to make a stir about it. But when the friction comes to have its machine, and oppression and robbery are organized, I say, let us not have such a machine any longer. In other words, when a sixth of the population of a nation which has undertaken to be the refuge of liberty are slaves, and a whole country is unjustly overrun and conquered by a foreign army, and subjected to military law, I think that it is not too soon for honest men to rebel and revolutionize. What makes this duty the more urgent is that fact that the country so overrun is not our own, but ours is the invading army.

    Paley, a common authority with many on moral questions, in his chapter on the “Duty of Submission to Civil Government,” resolves all civil obligation into expediency; and he proceeds to say that “so long as the interest of the whole society requires it, that it, so long as the established government cannot be resisted or changed without public inconveniencey, it is the will of God. . .that the established government be obeyed–and no longer. This principle being admitted, the justice of every particular case of resistance is reduced to a computation of the quantity of the danger and grievance on the one side, and of the probability and expense of redressing it on the other.” Of this, he says, every man shall judge for himself. But Paley appears never to have contemplated those cases to which the rule of expediency does not apply, in which a people, as well and an individual, must do justice, cost what it may. If I have unjustly wrested a plank from a drowning man, I must restore it to him though I drown myself. This, according to Paley, would be inconvenient. But he that would save his life, in such a case, shall lose it. This people must cease to hold slaves, and to make war on Mexico, though it cost them their existence as a people.

    In their practice, nations agree with Paley; but does anyone think that Massachusetts does exactly what is right at the present crisis?

    “A drab of stat,
    a cloth-o’-silver slut,
    To have her train borne up,
    and her soul trail in the dirt.”

    Practically speaking, the opponents to a reform in Massachusetts are not a hundred thousand politicians at the South, but a hundred thousand merchants and farmers here, who are more interested in commerce and agriculture than they are in humanity, and are not prepared to do justice to the slave and to Mexico, cost what it may. I quarrel not with far-off foes, but with those who, neat at home, co-operate with, and do the bidding of, those far away, and without whom the latter would be harmless. We are accustomed to say, that the mass of men are unprepared; but improvement is slow, because the few are not as materially wiser or better than the many. It is not so important that many should be good as you, as that there be some absolute goodness somewhere; for that will leaven the whole lump. There are thousands who are in opinion opposed to slavery and to the war, who yet in effect do nothing to put an end to them; who, esteeming themselves children of Washington and Franklin, sit down with their hands in their pockets, and say that they know not what to do, and do nothing; who even postpone the question of freedom to the question of free trade, and quietly read the prices-current along with the latest advices from Mexico, after dinner, and, it may be, fall asleep over them both. What is the price-current of an honest man and patriot today? They hesitate, and they regret, and sometimes they petition; but they do nothing in earnest and with effect. They will wait, well disposed, for other to remedy the evil, that they may no longer have it to regret. At most, they give up only a cheap vote, and a feeble countenance and Godspeed, to the right, as it goes by them. There are nine hundred and ninety-nine patrons of virtue to one virtuous man. But it is easier to deal with the real possessor of a thing than with the temporary guardian of it.

    All voting is a sort of gaming, like checkers or backgammon, with a slight moral tinge to it, a playing with right and wrong, with moral questions; and betting naturally accompanies it. The character of the voters is not staked. I cast my vote, perchance, as I think right; but I am not vitally concerned that that right should prevail. I am willing to leave it to the majority. Its obligation, therefore, never exceeds that of expediency. Even voting for the right is doing nothing for it. It is only expressing to men feebly your desire that it should prevail. A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority. There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men. When the majority shall at length vote for the abolition of slavery, it will be because they are indifferent to slavery, or because there is but little slavery left to be abolished by their vote. They will then be the only slaves. Only his vote can hasten the abolition of slavery who asserts his own freedom by his vote.

    I hear of a convention to be held at Baltimore, or elsewhere, for the selection of a candidate for the Presidency, made up chiefly of editors, and men who are politicians by profession; but I think, what is it to any independent, intelligent, and respectable man what decision they may come to? Shall we not have the advantage of this wisdom and honesty, nevertheless? Can we not count upon some independent votes? Are there not many individuals in the country who do not attend conventions? But no: I find that the respectable man, so called, has immediately drifted from his position, and despairs of his country, when his country has more reasons to despair of him. He forthwith adopts one of the candidates thus selected as the only available one, thus proving that he is himself available for any purposes of the demagogue. His vote is of no more worth than that of any unprincipled foreigner or hireling native, who may have been bought. O for a man who is a man, and, and my neighbor says, has a bone is his back which you cannot pass your hand through! Our statistics are at fault: the population has been returned too large. How many men are there to a square thousand miles in the country? Hardly one. Does not America offer any inducement for men to settle here? The American has dwindled into an Odd Fellow–one who may be known by the development of his organ of gregariousness, and a manifest lack of intellect and cheerful self-reliance; whose first and chief concern, on coming into the world, is to see that the almshouses are in good repair; and, before yet he has lawfully donned the virile garb, to collect a fund to the support of the widows and orphans that may be; who, in short, ventures to live only by the aid of the Mutual Insurance company, which has promised to bury him decently.

    It is not a man’s duty, as a matter of course, to devote himself to the eradication of any, even to most enormous, wrong; he may still properly have other concerns to engage him; but it is his duty, at least, to wash his hands of it, and, if he gives it no thought longer, not to give it practically his support. If I devote myself to other pursuits and contemplations, I must first see, at least, that I do not pursue them sitting upon another man’s shoulders. I must get off him first, that he may pursue his contemplations too. See what gross inconsistency is tolerated. I have heard some of my townsmen say, “I should like to have them order me out to help put down an insurrection of the slaves, or to march to Mexico–see if I would go”; and yet these very men have each, directly by their allegiance, and so indirectly, at least, by their money, furnished a substitute. The soldier is applauded who refuses to serve in an unjust war by those who do not refuse to sustain the unjust government which makes the war; is applauded by those whose own act and authority he disregards and sets at naught; as if the state were penitent to that degree that it hired one to scourge it while it sinned, but not to that degree that it left off sinning for a moment. Thus, under the name of Order and Civil Government, we are all made at last to pay homage to and support our own meanness. After the first blush of sin comes its indifference; and from immoral it becomes, as it were, unmoral, and not quite unnecessary to that life which we have made.

    The broadest and most prevalent error requires the most disinterested virtue to sustain it. The slight reproach to which the virtue of patriotism is commonly liable, the noble are most likely to incur. Those who, while they disapprove of the character and measures of a government, yield to it their allegiance and support are undoubtedly its most conscientious supporters, and so frequently the most serious obstacles to reform. Some are petitioning the State to dissolve the Union, to disregard the requisitions of the President. Why do they not dissolve it themselves–the union between themselves and the State–and refuse to pay their quota into its treasury? Do not they stand in same relation to the State that the State does to the Union? And have not the same reasons prevented the State from resisting the Union which have prevented them from resisting the State?

    How can a man be satisfied to entertain and opinion merely, and enjoy it? Is there any enjoyment in it, if his opinion is that he is aggrieved? If you are cheated out of a single dollar by your neighbor, you do not rest satisfied with knowing you are cheated, or with saying that you are cheated, or even with petitioning him to pay you your due; but you take effectual steps at once to obtain the full amount, and see to it that you are never cheated again. Action from principle, the perception and the performance of right, changes things and relations; it is essentially revolutionary, and does not consist wholly with anything which was. It not only divided States and churches, it divides families; ay, it divides the individual, separating the diabolical in him from the divine.

    Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? Men, generally, under such a government as this, think that they ought to wait until they have persuaded the majority to alter them. They think that, if they should resist, the remedy would be worse than the evil. But it is the fault of the government itself that the remedy is worse than the evil. It makes it worse. Why is it not more apt to anticipate and provide for reform? Why does it not cherish its wise minority? Why does it cry and resist before it is hurt? Why does it not encourage its citizens to put out its faults, and do better than it would have them? Why does it always crucify Christ and excommunicate Copernicus and Luther, and pronounce Washington and Franklin rebels?

    One would think, that a deliberate and practical denial of its authority was the only offense never contemplated by its government; else, why has it not assigned its definite, its suitable and proportionate, penalty? If a man who has no property refuses but once to earn nine shillings for the State, he is put in prison for a period unlimited by any law that I know, and determined only by the discretion of those who put him there; but if he should steal ninety times nine shillings from the State, he is soon permitted to go at large again.

    If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go: perchance it will wear smooth–certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. What I have to do is to see, at any rate, that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn.

    As for adopting the ways of the State has provided for remedying the evil, I know not of such ways. They take too much time, and a man’s life will be gone. I have other affairs to attend to. I came into this world, not chiefly to make this a good place to live in, but to live in it, be it good or bad. A man has not everything to do, but something; and because he cannot do everything, it is not necessary that he should be petitioning the Governor or the Legislature any more than it is theirs to petition me; and if they should not hear my petition, what should I do then? But in this case the State has provided no way: its very Constitution is the evil. This may seem to be harsh and stubborn and unconcilliatory; but it is to treat with the utmost kindness and consideration the only spirit that can appreciate or deserves it. So is all change for the better, like birth and death, which convulse the body.

    I do not hesitate to say, that those who call themselves Abolitionists should at once effectually withdraw their support, both in person and property, from the government of Massachusetts, and not wait till they constitute a majority of one, before they suffer the right to prevail through them. I think that it is enough if they have God on their side, without waiting for that other one. Moreover, any man more right than his neighbors constitutes a majority of one already.

    I meet this American government, or its representative, the State government, directly, and face to face, once a year–no more–in the person of its tax-gatherer; this is the only mode in which a man situated as I am necessarily meets it; and it then says distinctly, Recognize me; and the simplest, the most effectual, and, in the present posture of affairs, the indispensablest mode of treating with it on this head, of expressing your little satisfaction with and love for it, is to deny it then. My civil neighbor, the tax-gatherer, is the very man I have to deal with–for it is, after all, with men and not with parchment that I quarrel–and he has voluntarily chosen to be an agent of the government. How shall he ever know well that he is and does as an officer of the government, or as a man, until he is obliged to consider whether he will treat me, his neighbor, for whom he has respect, as a neighbor and well-disposed man, or as a maniac and disturber of the peace, and see if he can get over this obstruction to his neighborlines without a ruder and more impetuous thought or speech corresponding with his action. I know this well, that if one thousand, if one hundred, if ten men whom I could name–if ten honest men only–ay, if one HONEST man, in this State of Massachusetts, ceasing to hold slaves, were actually to withdraw from this co-partnership, and be locked up in the county jail therefor, it would be the abolition of slavery in America. For it matters not how small the beginning may seem to be: what is once well done is done forever. But we love better to talk about it: that we say is our mission. Reform keeps many scores of newspapers in its service, but not one man. If my esteemed neighbor, the State’s ambassador, who will devote his days to the settlement of the question of human rights in the Council Chamber, instead of being threatened with the prisons of Carolina, were to sit down the prisoner of Massachusetts, that State which is so anxious to foist the sin of slavery upon her sister–though at present she can discover only an act of inhospitality to be the ground of a quarrel with her–the Legislature would not wholly waive the subject of the following winter.

    Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison. The proper place today, the only place which Massachusetts has provided for her freer and less despondent spirits, is in her prisons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have already put themselves out by their principles. It is there that the fugitive slave, and the Mexican prisoner on parole, and the Indian come to plead the wrongs of his race should find them; on that separate but more free and honorable ground, where the State places those who are not with her, but against her–the only house in a slave State in which a free man can abide with honor. If any think that their influence would be lost there, and their voices no longer afflict the ear of the State, that they would not be as an enemy within its walls, they do not know by how much truth is stronger than error, nor how much more eloquently and effectively he can combat injustice who has experienced a little in his own person. Cast your whole vote, not a strip of paper merely, but your whole influence. A minority is powerless while it conforms to the majority; it is not even a minority then; but it is irresistible when it clogs by its whole weight. If the alternative is to keep all just men in prison, or give up war and slavery, the State will not hesitate which to choose. If a thousand men were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State to commit violence and shed innocent blood. This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible. If the tax-gatherer, or any other public officer, asks me, as one has done, “But what shall I do?” my answer is, “If you really wish to do anything, resign your office.” When the subject has refused allegiance, and the officer has resigned from office, then the revolution is accomplished. But even suppose blood shed when the conscience is wounded? Through this wound a man’s real manhood and immortality flow out, and he bleeds to an everlasting death. I see this blood flowing now.

    I have contemplated the imprisonment of the offender, rather than the seizure of his goods–though both will serve the same purpose–because they who assert the purest right, and consequently are most dangerous to a corrupt State, commonly have not spent much time in accumulating property. To such the State renders comparatively small service, and a slight tax is wont to appear exorbitant, particularly if they are obliged to earn it by special labor with their hands. If there were one who lived wholly without the use of money, the State itself would hesitate to demand it of him. But the rich man–not to make any invidious comparison–is always sold to the institution which makes him rich. Absolutely speaking, the more money, the less virtue; for money comes between a man and his objects, and obtains them for him; it was certainly no great virtue to obtain it. It puts to rest many questions which he would otherwise be taxed to answer; while the only new question which it puts is the hard but superfluous one, how to spend it. Thus his moral ground is taken from under his feet. The opportunities of living are diminished in proportion as that are called the “means” are increased. The best thing a man can do for his culture when he is rich is to endeavor to carry out those schemes which he entertained when he was poor. Christ answered the Herodians according to their condition. “Show me the tribute-money,” said he–and one took a penny out of his pocket–if you use money which has the image of Caesar on it, and which he has made current and valuable, that is, if you are men of the State, and gladly enjoy the advantages of Caesar’s government, then pay him back some of his own when he demands it. “Render therefore to Caesar that which is Caesar’s and to God those things which are God’s”–leaving them no wiser than before as to which was which; for they did not wish to know.

    When I converse with the freest of my neighbors, I perceive that, whatever they may say about the magnitude and seriousness of the question, and their regard for the public tranquillity, the long and the short of the matter is, that they cannot spare the protection of the existing government, and they dread the consequences to their property and families of disobedience to it. For my own part, I should not like to think that I ever rely on the protection of the State. But, if I deny the authority of the State when it presents its tax bill, it will soon take and waste all my property, and so harass me and my children without end. This is hard. This makes it impossible for a man to live honestly, and at the same time comfortably, in outward respects. It will not be worth the while to accumulate property; that would be sure to go again. You must hire or squat somewhere, and raise but a small crop, and eat that soon. You must live within yourself, and depend upon yourself always tucked up and ready for a start, and not have many affairs. A man may grow rich in Turkey even, if he will be in all respects a good subject of the Turkish government. Confucius said: “If a state is governed by the principles of reason, poverty and misery are subjects of shame; if a state is not governed by the principles of reason, riches and honors are subjects of shame.” No: until I want the protection of Massachusetts to be extended to me in some distant Southern port, where my liberty is endangered, or until I am bent solely on building up an estate at home by peaceful enterprise, I can afford to refuse allegiance to Massachusetts, and her right to my property and life. It costs me less in every sense to incur the penalty of disobedience to the State than it would to obey. I should feel as if I were worth less in that case.

    Some years ago, the State met me in behalf of the Church, and commanded me to pay a certain sum toward the support of a clergyman whose preaching my father attended, but never I myself. “Pay,” it said, “or be locked up in the jail.” I declined to pay. But, unfortunately, another man saw fit to pay it. I did not see why the schoolmaster should be taxed to support the priest, and not the priest the schoolmaster; for I was not the State’s schoolmaster, but I supported myself by voluntary subscription. I did not see why the lyceum should not present its tax bill, and have the State to back its demand, as well as the Church. However, as the request of the selectmen, I condescended to make some such statement as this in writing: “Know all men by these presents, that I, Henry Thoreau, do not wish to be regarded as a member of any society which I have not joined.” This I gave to the town clerk; and he has it. The State, having thus learned that I did not wish to be regarded as a member of that church, has never made a like demand on me since; though it said that it must adhere to its original presumption that time. If I had known how to name them, I should then have signed off in detail from all the societies which I never signed on to; but I did not know where to find such a complete list.

    I have paid no poll tax for six years. I was put into a jail once on this account, for one night; and, as I stood considering the walls of solid stone, two or three feet thick, the door of wood and iron, a foot thick, and the iron grating which strained the light, I could not help being struck with the foolishness of that institution which treated my as if I were mere flesh and blood and bones, to be locked up. I wondered that it should have concluded at length that this was the best use it could put me to, and had never thought to avail itself of my services in some way. I saw that, if there was a wall of stone between me and my townsmen, there was a still more difficult one to climb or break through before they could get to be as free as I was. I did nor for a moment feel confined, and the walls seemed a great waste of stone and mortar. I felt as if I alone of all my townsmen had paid my tax. They plainly did not know how to treat me, but behaved like persons who are underbred. In every threat and in every compliment there was a blunder; for they thought that my chief desire was to stand the other side of that stone wall. I could not but smile to see how industriously they locked the door on my meditations, which followed them out again without let or hindrance, and they were really all that was dangerous. As they could not reach me, they had resolved to punish my body; just as boys, if they cannot come at some person against whom they have a spite, will abuse his dog. I saw that the State was half-witted, that it was timid as a lone woman with her silver spoons, and that it did not know its friends from its foes, and I lost all my remaining respect for it, and pitied it.

    Thus the state never intentionally confronts a man’s sense, intellectual or moral, but only his body, his senses. It is not armed with superior with or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest. What force has a multitude? They only can force me who obey a higher law than I. They force me to become like themselves. I do not hear of men being forced to live this way or that by masses of men. What sort of life were that to live? When I meet a government which says to me, “Your money our your life,” why should I be in haste to give it my money? It may be in a great strait, and not know what to do: I cannot help that. It must help itself; do as I do. It is not worth the while to snivel about it. I am not responsible for the successful working of the machinery of society. I am not the son of the engineer. I perceive that, when an acorn and a chestnut fall side by side, the one does not remain inert to make way for the other, but both obey their own laws, and spring and grow and flourish as best they can, till one, perchance, overshadows and destroys the other. If a plant cannot live according to nature, it dies; and so a man.

    The night in prison was novel and interesting enough. The prisoners in their shirtsleeves were enjoying a chat and the evening air in the doorway, when I entered. But the jailer said, “Come, boys, it is time to lock up”; and so they dispersed, and I heard the sound of their steps returning into the hollow apartments. My room-mate was introduced to me by the jailer as “a first-rate fellow and clever man.” When the door was locked, he showed me where to hang my hat, and how he managed matters there. The rooms were whitewashed once a month; and this one, at least, was the whitest, most simply furnished, and probably neatest apartment in town. He naturally wanted to know where I came from, and what brought me there; and, when I had told him, I asked him in my turn how he came there, presuming him to be an honest an, of course; and as the world goes, I believe he was. “Why,” said he, “they accuse me of burning a barn; but I never did it.” As near as I could discover, he had probably gone to bed in a barn when drunk, and smoked his pipe there; and so a barn was burnt. He had the reputation of being a clever man, had been there some three months waiting for his trial to come on, and would have to wait as much longer; but he was quite domesticated and contented, since he got his board for nothing, and thought that he was well treated.

    He occupied one window, and I the other; and I saw that if one stayed there long, his principal business would be to look out the window. I had soon read all the tracts that were left there, and examined where former prisoners had broken out, and where a grate had been sawed off, and heard the history of the various occupants of that room; for I found that even there there was a history and a gossip which never circulated beyond the walls of the jail. Probably this is the only house in the town where verses are composed, which are afterward printed in a circular form, but not published. I was shown quite a long list of young men who had been detected in an attempt to escape, who avenged themselves by singing them.

    I pumped my fellow-prisoner as dry as I could, for fear I should never see him again; but at length he showed me which was my bed, and left me to blow out the lamp.

    It was like travelling into a far country, such as I had never expected to behold, to lie there for one night. It seemed to me that I never had heard the town clock strike before, not the evening sounds of the village; for we slept with the windows open, which were inside the grating. It was to see my native village in the light of the Middle Ages, and our Concord was turned into a Rhine stream, and visions of knights and castles passed before me. They were the voices of old burghers that I heard in the streets. I was an involuntary spectator and auditor of whatever was done and said in the kitchen of the adjacent village inn–a wholly new and rare experience to me. It was a closer view of my native town. I was fairly inside of it. I never had seen its institutions before. This is one of its peculiar institutions; for it is a shire town. I began to comprehend what its inhabitants were about.

    In the morning, our breakfasts were put through the hole in the door, in small oblong-square tin pans, made to fit, and holding a pint of chocolate, with brown bread, and an iron spoon. When they called for the vessels again, I was green enough to return what bread I had left, but my comrade seized it, and said that I should lay that up for lunch or dinner. Soon after he was let out to work at haying in a neighboring field, whither he went every day, and would not be back till noon; so he bade me good day, saying that he doubted if he should see me again.

    When I came out of prison–for some one interfered, and paid that tax–I did not perceive that great changes had taken place on the common, such as he observed who went in a youth and emerged a gray-headed man; and yet a change had come to my eyes come over the scene–the town, and State, and country, greater than any that mere time could effect. I saw yet more distinctly the State in which I lived. I saw to what extent the people among whom I lived could be trusted as good neighbors and friends; that their friendship was for summer weather only; that they did not greatly propose to do right; that they were a distinct race from me by their prejudices and superstitions, as the Chinamen and Malays are that in their sacrifices to humanity they ran no risks, not even to their property; that after all they were not so noble but they treated the thief as he had treated them, and hoped, by a certain outward observance and a few prayers, and by walking in a particular straight through useless path from time to time, to save their souls. This may be to judge my neighbors harshly; for I believe that many of them are not aware that they have such an institution as the jail in their village.

    It was formerly the custom in our village, when a poor debtor came out of jail, for his acquaintances to salute him, looking through their fingers, which were crossed to represent the jail window, “How do ye do?” My neighbors did not this salute me, but first looked at me, and then at one another, as if I had returned from a long journey. I was put into jail as I was going to the shoemaker’s to get a shoe which was mender. When I was let out the next morning, I proceeded to finish my errand, and, having put on my mended show, joined a huckleberry party, who were impatient to put themselves under my conduct; and in half an hour–for the horse was soon tackled–was in the midst of a huckleberry field, on one of our highest hills, two miles off, and then the State was nowhere to be seen.

    This is the whole history of “My Prisons.”

    I have never declined paying the highway tax, because I am as desirous of being a good neighbor as I am of being a bad subject; and as for supporting schools, I am doing my part to educate my fellow countrymen now. It is for no particular item in the tax bill that I refuse to pay it. I simply wish to refuse allegiance to the State, to withdraw and stand aloof from it effectually. I do not care to trace the course of my dollar, if I could, till it buys a man a musket to shoot one with–the dollar is innocent–but I am concerned to trace the effects of my allegiance. In fact, I quietly declare war with the State, after my fashion, though I will still make use and get what advantages of her I can, as is usual in such cases.

    If others pay the tax which is demanded of me, from a sympathy with the State, they do but what they have already done in their own case, or rather they abet injustice to a greater extent than the State requires. If they pay the tax from a mistaken interest in the individual taxed, to save his property, or prevent his going to jail, it is because they have not considered wisely how far they let their private feelings interfere with the public good.

    This, then is my position at present. But one cannot be too much on his guard in such a case, lest his actions be biased by obstinacy or an undue regard for the opinions of men. Let him see that he does only what belongs to himself and to the hour.

    I think sometimes, Why, this people mean well, they are only ignorant; they would do better if they knew how: why give your neighbors this pain to treat you as they are not inclined to? But I think again, This is no reason why I should do as they do, or permit others to suffer much greater pain of a different kind. Again, I sometimes say to myself, When many millions of men, without heat, without ill will, without personal feelings of any kind, demand of you a few shillings only, without the possibility, such is their constitution, of retracting or altering their present demand, and without the possibility, on your side, of appeal to any other millions, why expose yourself to this overwhelming brute force? You do not resist cold and hunger, the winds and the waves, thus obstinately; you quietly submit to a thousand similar necessities. You do not put your head into the fire. But just in proportion as I regard this as not wholly a brute force, but partly a human force, and consider that I have relations to those millions as to so many millions of men, and not of mere brute or inanimate things, I see that appeal is possible, first and instantaneously, from them to the Maker of them, and, secondly, from them to themselves. But if I put my head deliberately into the fire, there is no appeal to fire or to the Maker for fire, and I have only myself to blame. If I could convince myself that I have any right to be satisfied with men as they are, and to treat them accordingly, and not according, in some respects, to my requisitions and expectations of what they and I ought to be, then, like a good Mussulman and fatalist, I should endeavor to be satisfied with things as they are, and say it is the will of God. And, above all, there is this difference between resisting this and a purely brute or natural force, that I can resist this with some effect; but I cannot expect, like Orpheus, to change the nature of the rocks and trees and beasts.

    I do not wish to quarrel with any man or nation. I do not wish to split hairs, to make fine distinctions, or set myself up as better than my neighbors. I seek rather, I may say, even an excuse for conforming to the laws of the land. I am but too ready to conform to them. Indeed, I have reason to suspect myself on this head; and each year, as the tax-gatherer comes round, I find myself disposed to review the acts and position of the general and State governments, and the spirit of the people to discover a pretext for conformity.

    “We must affect our country as our parents,
    And if at any time we alienate
    Out love or industry from doing it honor,
    We must respect effects and teach the soul
    Matter of conscience and religion,
    And not desire of rule or benefit.”

    I believe that the State will soon be able to take all my work of this sort out of my hands, and then I shall be no better patriot than my fellow-countrymen. Seen from a lower point of view, the Constitution, with all its faults, is very good; the law and the courts are very respectable; even this State and this American government are, in many respects, very admirable, and rare things, to be thankful for, such as a great many have described them; seen from a higher still, and the highest, who shall say what they are, or that they are worth looking at or thinking of at all?

    However, the government does not concern me much, and I shall bestow the fewest possible thoughts on it. It is not many moments that I live under a government, even in this world. If a man is thought-free, fancy-free, imagination-free, that which is not never for a long time appearing to be to him, unwise rulers or reformers cannot fatally interrupt him.

    I know that most men think differently from myself; but those whose lives are by profession devoted to the study of these or kindred subjects content me as little as any. Statesmen and legislators, standing so completely within the institution, never distinctly and nakedly behold it. They speak of moving society, but have no resting-place without it. They may be men of a certain experience and discrimination, and have no doubt invented ingenious and even useful systems, for which we sincerely thank them; but all their wit and usefulness lie within certain not very wide limits. They are wont to forget that the world is not governed by policy and expediency. Webster never goes behind government, and so cannot speak with authority about it. His words are wisdom to those legislators who contemplate no essential reform in the existing government; but for thinkers, and those who legislate for all tim, he never once glances at the subject. I know of those whose serene and wise speculations on this theme would soon reveal the limits of his mind’s range and hospitality. Yet, compared with the cheap professions of most reformers, and the still cheaper wisdom an eloquence of politicians in general, his are almost the only sensible and valuable words, and we thank Heaven for him. Comparatively, he is always strong, original, and, above all, practical. Still, his quality is not wisdom, but prudence. The lawyer’s truth is not Truth, but consistency or a consistent expediency. Truth is always in harmony with herself, and is not concerned chiefly to reveal the justice that may consist with wrong-doing. He well deserves to be called, as he has been called, the Defender of the Constitution. There are really no blows to be given him but defensive ones. He is not a leader, but a follower. His leaders are the men of ’87. “I have never made an effort,” he says, “and never propose to make an effort; I have never countenanced an effort, and never mean to countenance an effort, to disturb the arrangement as originally made, by which various States came into the Union.” Still thinking of the sanction which the Constitution gives to slavery, he says, “Because it was part of the original compact–let it stand.” Notwithstanding his special acuteness and ability, he is unable to take a fact out of its merely political relations, and behold it as it lies absolutely to be disposed of by the intellect–what, for instance, it behooves a man to do here in American today with regard to slavery–but ventures, or is driven, to make some such desperate answer to the following, while professing to speak absolutely, and as a private man–from which what new and singular of social duties might be inferred? “The manner,” says he, “in which the governments of the States where slavery exists are to regulate it is for their own consideration, under the responsibility to their constituents, to the general laws of propriety, humanity, and justice, and to God. Associations formed elsewhere, springing from a feeling of humanity, or any other cause, have nothing whatever to do with it. They have never received any encouragement from me and they never will. [These extracts have been inserted since the lecture was read -HDT]

    They who know of no purer sources of truth, who have traced up its stream no higher, stand, and wisely stand, by the Bible and the Constitution, and drink at it there with reverence and humanity; but they who behold where it comes trickling into this lake or that pool, gird up their loins once more, and continue their pilgrimage toward its fountainhead.

    No man with a genius for legislation has appeared in America. They are rare in the history of the world. There are orators, politicians, and eloquent men, by the thousand; but the speaker has not yet opened his mouth to speak who is capable of settling the much-vexed questions of the day. We love eloquence for its own sake, and not for any truth which t may utter, or any heroism it may inspire. Our legislators have not yet learned the comparative value of free trade and of freed, of union, and of rectitude, to a nation. They have no genius or talent for comparatively humble questions of taxation and finance, commerce and manufactures and agriculture. If we were left solely to the wordy wit of legislators in Congress for our guidance, uncorrected by the seasonable experience and the effectual complaints of the people, America would not long retain her rank among the nations. For eighteen hundred years, though perchance I have no right to say it, the New Testament has been written; yet where is the legislator who has wisdom and practical talent enough to avail himself of the light which it sheds on the science of legislation.

    The authority of government, even such as I am willing to submit to–for I will cheerfully obey those who know and can do better than I, and in many things even those who neither know nor can do so well–is still an impure one: to be strictly just, it must have the sanction and consent of the governed. It can have no pure right over my person and property but what I concede to it. The progress from an absolute to a limited monarchy, from a limited monarchy to a democracy, is a progress toward a true respect for the individual. Even the Chinese philosopher was wise enough to regard the individual as the basis of the empire. Is a democracy, such as we know it, the last improvement possible in government? Is it not possible to take a step further towards recognizing and organizing the rights of man? There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. I please myself with imagining a State at last which can afford to be just to all men, and to treat the individual with respect as a neighbor; which even would not think it inconsistent with its own repose if a few were to live aloof from it, not meddling with it, nor embraced by it, who fulfilled all the duties of neighbors and fellow men. A State which bore this kind of fruit, and suffered it to drop off as fast as it ripened, would prepare the way for a still more perfect and glorious State, which I have also imagined, but not yet anywhere seen.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  23. Nikie Nichols

    Do not insult Ron Paul’s intelligence by suggesting he has Sara Palin and Mike Huckabee on his ticket. On that note, Sara Palin is a buffoon, a moron and a killer to boot. She is allowing and encouraging the killing of wolves and bears from helicopters–aerial killing. She is a monster in human form. Ask the Wildlife people who are fighting to save the animals from her grasp. Her shrieky voice is that of a fishwife and her education and intellectual capacity zero!!! McCaine pulled her out of obscurity and lived to regret it.

    I admire Dr. Paul and have the greatest respect for him. I would not want to see him being dragged down by the likes of Sara Palin.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. nate

      who gives a care about wolves and bears in Alaska?

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  24. Chrsitine

    Ron Paul now has 207 co-sponsors for his Audit the Fed bill.
    We are going to win this one!!!

    My congressman when asked if he would co-sponsor, said he didn’t know what HR 1207 was. When he was told that it was the Federal Transparency bill. He just rolled his eyes and said “Oh, Ron Paul”
    Then he said he hadn’t read the bill. (He is in that committee!!) Of course my congressman won’t sign on until he knows for sure it will make him look good. Then he will use it during his next election cycle.

    We just need to get out of committee and on the floor where it can be voted on and every congressman/woman will be held accountable for their vote.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  25. Chrsitine

    Congressman Ron Paul Talks Foreign Policy: New Face, Same Policy

    Kathleen Wells: As a member of the U. S. House of Representatives’ Foreign Affairs Committee, what is your take on this issue of torture?

    Congressman Ron Paul: Well, it’s against the law – both our law and international law. So, we shouldn’t do it. And I’m against it for personal, moral reasons. I think it’s horrible. And for practical reasons, I think it’s absolutely worthless. And if we are serious about getting information, if we use other techniques, we actually get more information.

    Kathleen Wells: So, you do believe that we were committing torture in our interrogations in Guantanamo?

    Congressman Ron Paul: I don’t think the pictures I’ve seen were fictitious – the ones that were released a year or two ago. And, obviously, there are some more pictures of torture that they draw more attention to because they refuse to release them, which means that it must be a true indictment of what they were doing.

    Kathleen Wells: What are your thoughts on President Obama’s decision to release the torture memos?

    Congressman Ron Paul: I think he is purely political. I think he has backed down on what he said. He was elected for change and it is the same old stuff and he is as much of a neo-con now as Bush was with this issue and other issues. The war has been expanded. He continues with not closing down Guantanamo. There is probably, for as most [sic] as we can tell, there is still secret rendition going on. We just moved some of this process overseas. We are not going to be aware of it in detail.

    Kathleen Wells: You feel President Obama is a neo-con like Bush? You don’t see a distinction between the two administrations?

    Congressman Ron Paul: The tone is different, but the policies don’t change. We are spreading the war. The war is expanding. We are not prosecuting those that committed torture. Guantanamo is not going to be closed down. So, no, I don’t see [a distinction between Bush and Obama].

    He [Obama] increased the DOD [Department of Defense] budget. We surely could spend some of that money at home where people are really hurting. But we increased the DOD budget, I think, by 10-percent. I can’t see any significant change in foreign policy. The pretense in leaving Iraq was a mild pretense and I’m predicting that’s not going to happen. There are going to be troops in Iraq throughout this administration, I’m convinced.

    Kathleen Wells: Why are you convinced?

    Congressman Ron Paul: Because I don’t think anyone wants to face the difficulties that might ensue. The problems came from us being there and when we leave, the problems will probably accelerate a bit. And then they will blame leaving for [causing] the problems and, yet, the real problem was going in. So, I think the international pressure that we get from various allies will be so great that we won’t leave. And just don’t expect the policies to change.

    It just goes along with what I have said for years. Foreign policy does not change with Republicans or Democrats. Overall, there is very little policy that changes. There is a lot of debate and a lot of rhetoric, but things continue as they do.

    When Clinton was in, the Republicans condemned his Somalia problem. Bush said he wasn’t going to be a nation builder and a policeman of the world and he gets in and he is worse. Obama says Bush is terrible and gets in and all of a sudden, guess who is cheering Obama on right now? People like [Senator] Lindsay Graham. The real hawks of the Republican Party are sorta enjoying this right now. They figure they are winning these fights.

    Kathleen Wells: Can you give me your thoughts on former Vice President Dick Cheney’s recent speech on interrogation techniques and national security?

    Congressman Ron Paul: I [didn't] expect anything brand new. He … just [tried] to defend what he had been doing and his involvement over the years. He’ll keep saying that he saved many lives by torturing – which I don’t believe for a minute.

    I’m more likely to believe Matthew Alexander and his position on torture. Matthew Alexander was an official that was involved. He was in the Air Force, but he was over there and he carried out over 300 interrogations over there and was very, very successful. But [he] refused orders to ever participate in anything violent or anything that hinted of torture. That is the evidence – you can get more information, rather than less [without using torture].

    I think the evidence is now coming out of people saying that the torture wasn’t intended to get information. They got a lot of information from these individuals – these few, these three that are well known now. They got a lot of information from them before they were tortured. They were trying to get them to say that there was a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein in order to justify this illegal war.

    Kathleen Wells: Elaborate on why you believe there is no difference between the Obama Administration and the Bush Administration?

    Congressmen Ron Paul: In style, they are different. The tone is different and I think there is a benefit to that. But his policies don’t change. Ultimately, policies win out. The strong statements against Iran are still there. And, right now, going through our committee (the Congressional International Relations Committee/the Foreign Affairs Committee), stronger sanctions will be put on Iran – just looking for another fight. And we have taken the position we will not allow them to proceed on any nuclear testing, even if it is within the law and even if it is done peacefully. We are not going to permit that. So no, that position hasn’t changed.

    Like I said before, the war is not winding down in Iraq. The violence is increasing. And war is expanding into Afghanistan, sending more troops there. And now we are taking on Pakistan. And, actually, the whole Pakistan thing is just a reflection of a very, very flawed foreign policy of ours. Because we chase the Taliban around and some go into Pakistan and we urge the public government there to do this and that, we are just working very hard to have another war in Pakistan.

    Kathleen Wells: What would you be doing differently if you were President? I know you were a Presidential primary candidate.

    Congressman Ron Paul: I would bring the troops home. I’d just bring them all home. I’d bring them home from Korea. I’d bring them home from Germany. Save hundreds of billions of dollars and that would be a real boost. In order to stimulate the economy, I would immediately suspend the income tax for everybody.

    The money we get into the hands of the people – that would cost less money than these hundreds of billions of dollars of bailouts that go into the pockets of the privileged who then get to take their retirement benefits and all their bonuses. I would do it a lot differently.

    Foreign policy, though, would be the big thing. Just move away from that. Take off the sanctions and start trading with Cuba. Not just talk about it, but go ahead and do it.

    Kathleen Wells: And Iran?

    Congressman Ron Paul: I would treat them like we treated the Soviets. We talked to them. The Soviets had 30,000 nuclear weapons. Iran is not going to bomb anybody. They deserve a little bit of protection for themselves. They have nuclear weapons to the north, to the south, to the east, and to the west and all they do is get beat up. There are a bunch of bad people over there, but there are a bunch of bad people all over the world.

    Khrushchev wasn’t exactly the nicest guy in the world and he claimed he was going to bury us, too. Even guys like Ronald Reagan talked to him and we worked things out. Their economic system collapsed.

    What we ought to do is pay more attention to the goals of Osama Bin Laden. He said, “We will bring you to your knees through your bankruptcy because we are going to drag you over here and we will drain you and we will eventually bring on an economic crisis in your country.” Right now he is winning. Right now the Iraqis are closely aligned with the Iranians. The Shiites are winning. The Sunnis are on the run. We’ve weaponized the whole area. More guns sent over there by the American taxpayer. The Sunnis are all armed. It’s just a very, very ridiculous foreign policy.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. Sean

      Obama is the same as bush??? Obama ended torture, has made policies for helping climate change, has set a date to withdraw all the troops out of iraq. He stopped arresting sick people for marijuana. He is trying to make peace with the musslim world. He is now working on health care and a lot more than I can think. He’s all words and slow action, bush is no words and no action.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  26. Chrsitine

    I forwarded this link to others. Here is one of the responses I received. Thought all might be interested.

    http://www.hermes-press.com/impintro1.htm
    The New U.S.-British Oil Imperialism

    The author is almost a BS artist, where BS means a thorough
    disregard for the facts. Bush taught us the difference
    between a BS artist and a liar. At least a liar knows when he
    is telling a false story, whereas BS artists don’t know or care
    for enough of the truth to know where they are making it up.

    It does a disservice to our various causes to spread stuff
    that is this awful. We do not lack for carefully thought-out
    essays which say where they got their info.

    There are SOOOO MANY distortions and incorrect facts that
    any analysis or inferences the author could make (based
    on a falacious history) could only be half-baked.

    Mistakes I saw:

    1. The part about how Japan came into WW2 against the US
    was true only in that FDR schemed to make it happen. But ALL
    the details were wrong. My source is Robert Stinnett’s
    excellent book, “Day of Deceit, the Truth about FDR and Pear
    Harbor”. (It’s a must-read for anyone who believes in some
    conspiracy wherein the US government is looking out for the
    good of all its citizens and would never conspire to murder
    thousands of US citizens.) Japan, Italy and Germany signed the
    Tripartite Pact Sept. 27, 1940, where an attack on one would be
    an attack on all. FDR was looking for a way to get the US into
    a war that, polls showed, the people did not want. So Lt. Cmdr.
    Robert McCollum wrote a famous memo with 8 action items that
    would make the Japanese attack the US. All 8 items were done,
    and the rest is history. This web site is silly beyond belief, for
    saying “less than a week after the Pearl Harbor attack, the
    Japanese convince Hitler to declare war on the United States.”
    The US declared war on Germany, Dec. 11, 1941. How much
    bigger a fact can you get wrong ?

    2. It’s silly beyond belief to say that Rommel was supposed to
    capture the oil fields of Iran by 1941. There are thousands of
    miles between Libya and Iran, not to mention major British
    and British colonial forces. Even in the least reality-based
    speculation on the “what might have been’s” of WW2, I have
    never seen a 10 month timetable. That’s really stupid. Many
    books have been written on the topic, and they all agree that
    Hitler’s main focus was on the planned invasion of Russia, and
    giving support to Italy was an unwanted diversion.

    3. I never heard of the Allies destroying their own fuel depots
    during the Battle of the Bulge. I doubt that happened, and in
    any case those fuel depots were never in danger of being
    captured. Relative to the other stuff, this is small, but it says
    the guy has no clue.

    4. The British were siphoning off Persian oil in a big way from at
    least the 1920′s on, not just by the end of WW2.

    5. The coup against Iran’s democracy and President Mossadegh
    happened in August, 1953, not 1954. All the other details are
    correct, but why get the year wrong ? In the Internet age, it
    only takes a half minute to check this, if you’re not sure. 1954
    was Guatemala’s turn to get their democracy killed by the CIA.

    6. Given all these other truly ridiculous errors, why should I
    believe this tale of two secret Soviet pipelines to Iran ? It could
    be true, but where is the proof ?

    7. To say the Shah of Iran was backed by Standard Oil, is to
    distort. There were many forces propping up this monster,
    and although oil was a major motive, I’m not sure it was Standard
    Oil that was front-and-center. Iran was the focus of cold war
    intrigue, the Commies were a serious force in Iran, and Iran
    was a war trophy even without the oil. Remember, the Persian
    culture stretches into the ‘stans of the old Soviet Union,
    and even into Northern India. Want to control Asia, then
    you want to control Iran, too.

    8. I have never before heard this tale that the U.S. supplied
    weapons after WW2 to the Viet Minh. If that’s true, it would be
    a major story that was kept hidden. We know the US supplied
    the French with over $ 3 billion in military assistance, in an era
    when a dollar was worth something, and 1000% backed the
    French in their sneaky re-occupation of their former colonies,
    going so far as to keep the Japanese army totally intact and
    in charge of Vietnam for over 6 months after the end of WW2.
    With so many other easily-checked facts wrong, and with no
    documentary trail, at most I would file this claim in the back of
    my mind, barely in front of the UFO tales.

    9. This story about using US dropped bombs to do the seismic
    mapping of the seabed is ridiculous. The explosions have to
    be on the seabed, not thousands of feet about it. The explosions
    themselves are a tiny fraction of the cost of seismic mapping.
    On land, they use a “thumper” which is a special truck with a
    hydraulic ram that pounds the ground. Before that, about a half
    stick of dynamite was enough. The expense was, and still is, in
    the software and computers to analyze the thumps. So this is
    utter hogwash. As is his idea that the war had to last 20 years
    while Standard Oil completed its mapping. Even done
    surreptitiously, that could have been done in about a year.

    If it’s true that only the Standard Oil bids panned out, that would
    be very interesting, but I’d expect it to more be based on money-
    under-the-table to seismologists. Corruption explains a lot.

    10. This really sticks in the craw. He says a half million Vietnamese
    died in the war. The true number is well-known and not in any
    serious dispute. It’s 3 million, not a half million.

    11. “The UN-sanctioned war in the Balkans was all about oil and
    the pipeline easment for Caspian Sea oil to Western Europe
    markets through Kosovo to the Mediterranean…” A glance at a
    map shows how ridiculous this is. The pipelines run through the
    valleys of Romania, not through the mountains of the Balkans.
    So this author never bothered to think about his stuff.

    12. “As soon as the Soviets discovered the vast Caspian Sea oil
    fields in the 1970′s …” Beyond, waaaay way beyond ridiculous.
    The FIRST oil fields to be discovered on the Caspian were in
    Azerbaijan before 1905. That was on the Western shore, but
    major oil fields on the East side were being exploited from long
    before the 1970′s.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. Sean

      haha, i read a lot of this and it is totally wrong.. like for instance, there is a movie called perespolis about the shah of iran and oil. I can go down the list one by one and prove these comments to be incorrect. Even zeitgeist said that fdr cutt off oil trade to japan to start WW2

      This person is ignorant to the importance of oil.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      1. Sean

        Everything uses oil, a child must use 2,000 bottles of oil just to make their diapers for 2 and a half years.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        1. Sean

          These “details” are insignificant and don’t change the story.. You can go search for the correct answers yourself.

          Here is where all the information can be found.
          Brisard, J, and Dasquie, G. Forbidden Truth, 2002

          Rashid, Ahmed, Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia, 2000
          Pilger, John, Hidden Agenda

          Klare, Michael, Resource Wars

          Yergin, Daniel, The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money and Power, (1991)

          Pepe Escobar, The war for Pipelineistan, Asian Times (1/26/02)

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  27. Sean
    1. Nate Y

      Sean replies:
      June 10th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

      We need to become energy independent before we can we do anything.

      ————————————————————-

      Even if this is true, the road to energy independence would be more easily and efficiently paved by the free market. Of course, the government could do much to encourage such an outcome. That is, the government could get out of the way, lower taxes, promote free competition, end their stifling regulations, etc.

      I don’t think I’m “smarter than the world” whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. It’s the governments and central banks who think they can guide/command/control the economy and world industries. Again, they are the ones who suffer from the fatal conceit. The Austrian tradition is the humble perspective. A key concept is to realize that no one knows anything special. We have to wait for the combined free exchanges of individuals (the market) to provide the answers.

      “Foreigners make more of our money than we have in reserves”

      I’ll just let this utterly stupid statement speak for itself.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      1. Sean

        Austrians would agree with everything I say.. You just don’t understand. This isn’t about keynesian, this isn’t about austrian, this isn’t about monetarist, this is just common knowledge.

        “Hence the fixed exchange rates of currencies tied to gold were switched to a floating rate, also based on market price and exchange. This largely came about because Petrodollars outside the United States were more than could be backed by the gold at Fort Knox under the fixed exchange rate system.”-wiki

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        1. Sean

          The free market is not going to change anything. In the free market, they are going to give us 5 miles more per gallon every 5 years,until we run out of oil.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          1. Sean

            “We send a billion dollars to foreign nations every single day and we are melting the polar ice caps in the bargain…That has to change.” -Obama

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        2. Nate Y

          Essentially everything you say runs counter to what the Austrian school promotes. Why would they agree with your positions? But you do have some proper concerns which I’ve already acknowledged many times. You recognize our oil/energy situation is problematic, you claim to want sound money (sometimes), etc. However, your explanation as to why we find ourselves in our current predicament is opposite of the Austrian explanation. In general, you blame the free market as the cause of our ills and promote even more government as the solution. Again, this is directly contrary to the Austrian explanation.

          As for Obama, he seems to have his heart in the right place and he sometimes says the right things (like your quote above). Unfortunately, talk is cheap and his policies are only making the problems worse. He’s surrounded himself with interventionist/Keynesian economists and they’re feeding him their tortured logic.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          1. Sean

            How is the free market going to change a whole car industry? Its not because car manufactorers are getting paid off by oil companies etc..

            How do the austrians think we got in this position? why do the austrians think we got off the gold standard?

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  28. Chrsitine

    On July 10-12, Campaign for Liberty will hold its third Regional Conference at Bally’s Las Vegas as we present a weekend of motivation, training, and education from top experts.

    Our goal with these Conferences is to:

    Strengthen your understanding of history and foundational principles necessary to maintain liberty
    Teach you how to persuasively communicate our movement’s mission and message
    Train you in how to recruit, equip, and mobilize an army of informed citizens and build the organizational structure necessary to win
    Help you master the political process on the local, state, and national level

    A three-day pass to the Regional Conference is $139, discounted to $99 for dues-paying C4L members and $59 for students.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  29. Kenny

    This is how America runs. We get deeper and deeper into trouble until we HAVE to do something or face great peril. And THATS when America and our government take the steps that may not be so popular but work to get the job done. That’s how it is for Ron Paul. America (more so the American government) turn a blind eye to this man because he believes in strict principals, small government, and truly believes in the constitution and its guidelines. The government is scared of Ron Paul because he wants to cut spending and eliminate the FED, IRS, the department of education, the war in the Middle East. All of which dirty politicians have a greedy hand in just to rake out some money. I believe there’s hope though. I believe Obama is going to put this recession into hyper-drive. . . actually i believe he has already started. By 2012 this country is going to be in a financial rut just as predicted by Dr. Paul. Then i believe finally that the American people will understand that good looking, smooth talkin politicians are just mouths. That spending money and fighting unneeded wars will only drive us deeper into debt, and that the only action to reverse this is deep, principal action. Ron Paul is that man to deliver us out of the hole this country has dug for itself. I believe he will lay the foundation for this country to get back on its feet again, get out of debt and start using its OWN money, instead of borrowed money and borrowed economic tactics that never worked in the first place. Ron Paul for President 2012!!!!!!!!!!

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

1 5 6 7