Ron Paul and Daniel Hannan on Healthcare

This Wednesday afternoon, Ron Paul joined Rand Paul, Daniel Hannan, Peter Schiff, Lew Rockwell, David Aitken and Judge Andrew Napolitano to discuss healthcare, as well as other political and economic developments.

Part 1: (Ron Paul)
Part 2: (Ron Paul)
Part 3:
Part 4:
Part 5:
Part 6:

Channel: Fox News Strategy Room
Show: Freedom Watch
Host: Judge Andrew Napolitano
Date: 8/5/2009

Transcript of Ron Paul’s appearance

Judge Andrew Napolitano: It’s my pleasure now as always to begin the show with one of America’s great defenders of freedom and liberty in Congress today. Congressman Ron Paul joins us on the phone from his congressional office in the Lone Star State of Texas. Congressman Paul, always a pleasure, welcome back to Freedom Watch.

Ron Paul: Thank you very much, Judge. It’s good to be with you.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Thank you. Have you been getting an earful from your constituents as much as many of your colleagues have? You’ve probably seen on Fox and other networks, people are angry and deeply concerned about the direction the Congress is taking with their ability to make private free choices.

Ron Paul: Yes, I am hearing it. I thought I might be exempt because I’ve been on their side for so long, but there is so much anger out there and they don’t know exactly which way to go and I hope I can help them out, but the people who are complaining are just sort of agreeing with what I’ve been complaining about for so long; too much government, too much spending.

Obama can’t solve these problems, but there is a lot of anger out there. As a matter of fact, I think in the last 30 days, I’ve seen more just in my own district than I’ve seen in 10 years.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: I think there’s also a lot of fear, Congressman Paul, and some of the questions that I heard asked, which were based on the 1,100-page piece of legislation that Mrs. Pelosi predicts that the House will pass and then will go over to the Senate. Things like, the federal government may send counselors to you when you’re 80 years old to talk to you about suicide? The federal government may have a menu of things that your doctor can make available to you and a list of procedures that he can’t make available to you depending upon your age and your degree of the illness?

Aren’t people legitimately concerned that some of these proposals, at least for example, this healthcare one, will inject the federal government and federal bureaucrats into what everybody has always accepted and what the Supreme Court has held as a uniquely private relationship, that between the patient and the physician?

Ron Paul: Yes, and people are pretty upset about this and their response, whether it’s the administration or even some liberal talk show hosts, they want to make fun and ridicule and say, “Oh, yeah. Those right-wing constitutionalists are saying that the government is lining up there to kill all the people over 75.” And that’s not what they’re saying.

I think you said it quite correctly that it’s going to be an option and we do know that in some states already they do have active euthanasia. You can ask and be assisted and have assisted suicide.

To me, as a physician and as a protector of liberty, that’s a big leap from having the permission given to your doctors to withhold extraordinary care. I think that’s an accepted medical position where you don’t need tubes and whistles and bells to be kept alive and that’s what they claimed this is all about.

But I think there is reason for the American people to be concerned because there is a move and traditionally, when governments pay the bills, then they want to interfere with how that money is going to be spent. You notice this when people argue that you should have a helmet on when you ride a motorcycle. It’s not that they’re so worried about the person or your liberties, they’re worried about, “Oh, if you get hurt, we have to pay your bills.”

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Right.

Ron Paul: So you lose freedoms. So once the government gets involved and they talk about who gets the kidneys and who gets to stay alive because, you know, when you’re 80 years old, you know your life is not as valuable. The 60 year old has to get it, so they allocate medical care like they’re allocating oranges.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: In every state in the union now, you have the right to direct your healthcare provider to use or not to use extraordinary means of keeping you alive.

Ron Paul: Right.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: You’re uniquely qualified to talk about this, of course, as a member of Congress, as an expert on the federal government and as a practicing physician. You have the right to direct your family and your healthcare providers. If I go into a coma, let the good Lord take me or if I go into a coma, I want this, this, this, and this done to try and bring me back to a state of consciousness.

Do you suspect and do you fear that should President Obama’s healthcare program become law that those decisions either could not be made by an individual and would be made by the Federal government, or could only be made in conjunction with the consent of some clerk or agent from the federal government?

Ron Paul: Well, we’re moving in that direction. I wouldn’t say the day that is passed that the bureaucrat is going to make that final decision, but we’re moving in that direction, and just the fact that we do know that in the states where this is legal, sometimes people who are more depressed than anything else end up committing suicide and having assisted suicide. So this is the reason you don’t even want to move in that direction. Besides, the government, the federal government, shouldn’t be involved in medical care and medical decisions, so it’s a very, very bad direction to be going in.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Moving into another area of your expertise, you recently wrote in, my favorite website and probably your favorite website as well, that the total federal future entitlements to obligation is now reaching $100 trillion. How did we get to another to a number like that? And I don’t even think you can write that number out on a normal sized piece of writing paper.

Ron Paul: Yeah, and I’d hate to prove that it’s not 99 or 110 because it varies from year to year. It varies with inflation. It varies from whether you’re going out 20 years or 30 years or 40 years, but it is huge and growing exponentially and, of course, the revenues are going down with it.

With a weak economy, revenues do go down and that’s why the deficit is expanding and further pressure is being put on the Fed, not only for their shenanigans that they do to bail out their buddies, but now there will be a lot more pressure put on the Fed to literally monetize this debt that we’re running up.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Congressman Paul, we’re joined now by Daniel Hannan, whom I think you know, the wonderful British member of the European Parliament who startled and educated the world by a speech that he gave on the floor of the British Parliament in the presence and to the face of Chancellor Gordon Brown. Daniel Hannan, welcome back to Freedom Watch.

Daniel Hannan: Thank you for having me back on, Judge.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: One of your favorite American hero as Congressman Paul is here with us, speaking from his Congressional office in Texas, because you are standing where he usually stands in the Rotunda of the Capitol Building. We’re just talking about healthcare. You have lived and grown to adulthood under the British National Health Service. Would you wish that on a free market like we have in the United States, Mr. Hannan?

Daniel Hannan: I wouldn’t wish it on anybody. We have a system where the most salient facts of it are you get huge waiting lists, you have bad survival rates, you much farther fall ill in the US than in the UK, you know, if you get cancer, if you get heart disease, you get stroke. Five years on, the chances are here you are going to be healthy. In the UK, you’re not. Why do we stick to it in the UK? Because there is such a huge vested interest. There are so many people now who depend on it.

We have 1.4 million employees in the NHS in the United Kingdom. It’s the third biggest employer in the world after the Chinese Red Army and the Indian National Railways and that means that electorally, it’s almost impossible to get rid of the thing, even though most of those employees are administrators and are bureaucrats rather than doctors and nurses, and even though the people in the system, the people working for it, are ruthlessly exploited because there is a monopoly employer and they are very badly paid.

But there is such a big conservative block in the sense of being resistant to change that it’s something you almost can’t politically get rid of and that’s why, you know, don’t believe, if you’re watching this program, don’t think that you can experiment with one of these things and then reverse it if it doesn’t work out. That’s not how it happens.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Congressman Paul, when you went to law school and even the generation afterwards, it’s like the brightest kids in the class… excuse me, when you went to medical school, the brightest kids in the class became doctors. Well, do you think we’ll have a shortage of doctors? Do you think they’ll be an incentive to enter the medical profession if the federal government tells you how to practice medicine? If the federal government rations medical care and if the federal government limits what your income can be as a physician under some new centrally managed and planned healthcare system like they have in Great Britain?

Ron Paul: I don’t think that would be first reaction. I think the quality of the person that goes into medicine will go down and that will not benefit the patient. But eventually, there will be a shortage. In a way, we already have shortages. It’s hard to get a doctor to work full time in a Veterans Hospital, a purely government hospital and it’s very hard to get… people who are getting Medicare right now, even with members of my own family say they are having trouble getting a family physician because they just don’t want to mess with the bureaucracy of the Medicare system.

So, no, it’s moving in the wrong direction. It’s going to be more difficult to find the doctors.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Mr. Hannan, do the best and the brightest become physicians in Great Britain? Is there a shortage of physicians as a consequence of either you work for the government or you get another job?

Daniel Hannan: Some people will become physicians just out of a calling, and I don’t want to imply that because we have a system it doesn’t contain good people. A lot of very generous, very patriotic people become doctors, even though they are working in a system that doesn’t maximize their utility because they have a calling to help other people and so that’s going to happen. And because that thing really becomes an argument for the system because people come out of a basically bad experience with the NHS and they say, “Oh, the nurses couldn’t have been kinder, the doctors couldn’t have been a more professional.”

And so that is something exceptional rather than what you could expect, if you see what I mean. But no, as a matter of simple, statistical fact, we have many fewer GPs per head of population than you have in North America or indeed than they have in the insurance-based systems in Continental Europe. We have had an emigration of physicians from the UK to the US, as I understand there has been from Canada to the US because people want to be in a system where they are valued and where their skills are put to maximum use.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Congressman Paul, do you think the American people would ever tolerate the type of rationing that would probably occur with the central planning of healthcare? I was watching a piece by our mutual friend, John Stossel, on ABC the other night. Actually, John sent it over here and I saw it before it was broadcast. That there are large sections in Canada where there is such a paucity of healthcare that the town clerk actually has to pull […] out of a hat, so that when a visiting physician comes by once a month, whoever is named, he or she pulls out of the hat, gets to see the doctor and everybody else waits until the next month’s lottery. Could you imagine anything like that happening here and the American people accepting it?

Ron Paul: Well, you know, it’s hard to say. I think some will. Others are going to go to the underground economy, but let’s hope is anger that we’re experiencing right now and how upset the American people are, if we can think and take that energy in the type of people that you’ve talked to recently in the large crowd, we have to channel that energy to convince them that a free market system is quite capable of taking care of their needs, not only doing an adequate job, but better than anything the government can do. That to me is where the bottom line is in what we have to decide.

But if we institute a whole new system and the American people get really, really angry and fussed up about it, you know, in ten years from now, then it’s much more difficult to change things. That’s why we do have a critical thing going on right now politically and hopefully we sort it out and not make this thing so much worse.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Congressman Paul, before I let you go, there is a young man sitting next to me who looks like a younger, handsomer version of you.

Ron Paul: Thanks a lot.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: He’s beaming and you’re saying thanks a lot. I think he’s going to make some national announcement on the Fox News Channel in a couple of hours. I’m not sure what it is. Is there anything you want to say to this good-looking guy who is also a physician?

Ron Paul: No. The only thing I told him, make sure he knows what he’s doing because he has a perfectly good medical practice and he’s a good physician. So I don’t tell him what to do. He is his own man, but whatever he’s doing, I’m sure he’s going to do a good job.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Congressman Paul, thanks very much for joining us. Until next week at Freedom Watch.

Ron Paul: Thank you.

  • christine

    Thank you longshotlouie! It has been pretty quiet around here for a couple of days.

    What are Obama’s investments in biotech companies apparently developing the “bird” and “swine” flu vaccine?

    Worthy of investigation and criminal charges in my opinion for pushing this whole idea of the pandemic and the contaminated flu vaccines on entire countries. He plans on making a few bucks and work on his NWO plan at the same time, depopulation. NOT!

    Now think about this for a minute…Do you want this president or any of our government to be in charge of our health care knowing they are capable of genocide? This should quickly end the discussion to reach the only conclusion. NO! Absolutely not.


  • longshotlouie
  • longshotlouie

    According to Dr. Leonard Horowitz, “no pandemic in earth’s history has ever evolved divorced from major socio-economic and political upheaval.”

  • Freemenright!

    Very interesting and shocking!! When will Jane Burgermeister’s charges against the mentioned be heard??
    Why has the press not run the story?
    Many many more questions……
    If this can happen – what else could be going on?

  • Lindsey Brutus

    The issue of euthanasia is real and I am glad that Ron Paul has spoken so firmly against it. On this issue he joins Sarah Palin in recognizing the slippery slope this could become. God bless Ron and Sarah!

  • christine

    Practice a Little Preventative Medicine …and Stop Our Government NOW.

    I know many of us are justifiably complaining about issues with our government. Some of us are feeling there is little that we can do to actually see an immediate change, some relief from so much negativity coming at us at once. We’re enduring financial hardships, joblessness, and seeing our liberties being taken away by the passing of each new law, our personal wealth stolen and our kids in debt before they have even been born.

    Well, I suggest to you now that each one of us has an opportunity right now, TODAY, to make a huge change in the course of history and help our nation avoid a lot more misery, pain and suffering.

    No one here doubts that much of our government is secretive and working against us. We are angry about the shadow government, the elite bankers and those within the FED, with Goldman Sachs and major corporations who are surrounding us like an army, taking our wealth and taking our country down. We have felt helpless. This all goes against what America is to us in our hearts was at its inception. It is land of a free people, not an oppressed people.

    I would like you to take a look at a complaint being filed in Washington State. The print is tiny (CTRL+ will give you larger print). Be sure to read through it all the way to the end. You will get an education! If you have anger towards any of the elite and secret groups, NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM ! YOUR COMPLAINT CAN CAUSE AN INVESTIGATION AND CRIMINAL CHARGES TO BE LEVELED AGAINST THOSE WHO HAVE HARMED US AND CONTINUE TO HARM US. They won’t stop themselves, so we have to. We call it then end of tyranny. Let’s get back to living fully in freedom. We need to eradicate them from our financial and governmental system! This complaint summarizes one of the largest crimes planned against Americans and other people around the world, ever! This is global. It will start in a couple of months, mid-October, so we haven’t much time to act. Point by point, you will see that this fall our government with several other organizations listed in the complaint have actually planned to harm us in ways we could never have ever imagine. Obama has appeared on television telling us how he has encouraged several countries to be prepared to also force vaccinate its citizens. As he puts it “they are responsibly prepared”. Nice sounding, but far from nice.

    Names like Goldman Sachs, the elite bankers, criminal syndicate, the World Health Organization (WHO) and many others, several in Illinois, and drug executives who plan to make a lot of money from the sale of a vaccine for the H1N1 virus, but this vaccine is contaminated and lethal. A criminal indictment has firstly been filed against WHO and others by Jane Bergermeister.

    Charges Filed Against Baxter and Avir

    Help take down the criminals who have stolen so much from us already, and who now plan to systematically take our very lives, once again under the guise of helping us. No, they are not helping us, they are helping themselves to everything we own if we die from this vaccine! There is so much documentation. Get legal counsel if you need to. Talk it over with others, but please consider filing a complaint in your state. Who will stand up and put your anger to good use? As Ron Paul says, we need to convert that energy of anger into good use. Here’s your opportunity.

    A Guide to Filing for an Injunction in a State

    You can also visit my website at for links to more interviews with Jane, videos and info. It’s not a fancy website, but it will do for now.

  • christine

    Complaint to stop enforced vaccinations in Washington State

    YEAH!! You can file a case as well to stop the mandatory vaccinations of our citizens! She says it’s easy. Instructions below.

    A Guide to Filing for an Injunction in a State

    The Sates are to uphold our constitutional rights!!
    Liberty, not Tyranny! File a complaint in your state!
    End this senseless terror inside our country!

    Power is in the hands of the people! …in the constitution.

  • christine

    Horrors of Vaccination Exposed and Illustrated in a petition to the President to abolish compulaory vaccination in the Army and Navy, a book from 1919

    America and the world need governments to return to the constitutional rights of the individual, and in failing to do so, it is our duty as Americans to abolish any laws against our inalienable rights. Our government, the United States Corporation, has gone seriously wayward.

  • Freemenright!

    There is a good interview on youtube thats worth watching as it is typical of what Daniel Hannan has recently commented on US TV regarding the bureaucracy and short comings of the British NHS health system(which I am in agreemnt with Daniel Hannan). “GMTV where the interviewer/tv presenter has questioned a government minister of the Uk’s NHS health system introducing more bureaucracy and what are likely to be poor expensive services to be paid for by the tax payer! The presenter questions the already over bureaucratic service and its ever escalating costs which continue fail to deliver cost efectively. However, It is particularly sensitive and personal to the tv presenter as his daughter almost died through side effects of drugs being administered without proper diagnosis or being administered thru a proper phycian!! Although we are told in the UK that swine flu is huge and dangerous it appears very few people have really contracted anything more than summer colds etc, although it has been possible to call over the telephone and pick up the drugs form libraries and other centres not connected to the NHS! Tax payer funded drugs(tamiflu) have also been available on Ebay!! Yet this interview raises questions on how the british government have raced to hand out drugs without actually testing or proper diagnosis. search/google – Andrew Castle GMTV swine flu. A whopping waste of tax payers money!!!!!!

    • christine

      …because several governments are behaving dangerously and up to no good with the manufactuerd bird flu pandemic and the contaminated vaccine. There is evidence and a lawsuit filed against the World Health Organization (WHO) and Obama. Several others have also filed lawsuits. In what I have read, there is a shocking plan to reduce the world’s population by many millions of people. The vehicle is the vaccination. In our US laws, the government can force vaccinations and even use martial law. This is the most urgent item of all since flu season is just around the corner. In a couple of months we will be faced with a choice, to vaccinate or not. In the law, if someone should be vaccinated and suffer an adverse effect (death, sickness, crippling), there is no legal recourse for the recipient for faulty “medicine”. Why? Because it is faulty and they know it. Do not vaccinate. Because of the urgency, I quickly converted my little website to share some of the links I have come across in my research. I think it is almost prophetic that I chose the name of this website long before I knew any of this.
      (unorganized collection of links as I learned more about many topics)

      • Freemenright!

        Thank you for your reply.. Today Sunday in the UK the news paper ‘The Mail on Sunday’ ran a story warning of the risks associated with the vaccine for swine flu!! I hope you get a chance to read it.
        From reading the article it seems the government here are ignoring the risks that have been flagged up by experts!! PS. I will visit your website
        Has the vaccine been tested and if so do you know where the results will be published? If the vaccine has not been tested then presumably the vaccine is not safe to administer to the public and further more it would put several million people in danger thru having the vaccine!!
        The people pushing this vaccine are obviously not doing it in the interests of public health. It is also worth pointing out that most people I speak with think that the Swine Flu is suspicious and the rush to call it a pandemic seems to have been at the very least premature!!
        I will let as many people know as possible…
        Who is the manufacturer of the vaccine???

        • christine

          Jane Bergermeister is the one who filed the main lawsuit against the World Health Organization (WHO), Obama, Baxter and others.

          Important Websites to Keep Informed

          For anyone who is working towards preserving our liberty, freedom from tyranny…check out the agenda (there’s always an agenda) from the Swine Flu Conference held in Washington D.C., especially #2 & #6

          another poster under a different Health forum category posted this:

          Swine flu vaccine linked to deadly nerve disease?
          Leaked letters raise fears of repeat of ‘1976 debacle’
          Posted: August 15, 2009
          8:10 pm Eastern

          © 2009 WorldNetDaily


          Two letters from the U.K.’s Health Protection Agency to top neurologists, sent on the eve of a massive vaccination program against the H1N1, or swine flu, virus and leaked to a British newspaper, warn doctors to watch
          for an increase in cases of a fatal brain disorder which could be triggered by the vaccine.

          Guillain-Barre Syndrome attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal, London’s Mail on Sunday reported.

          The first round of immunizations is scheduled for October and is set to treat 13 million pople, giving priority to “everyone aged six months to 65 with an underlying health problem, pregnant women and health professionals.”

          Already, concerns have been raised over insufficient testing and lack of knowledge about the new vaccine’s effect on children.”

          PERHAPS THEY WILL STOP THIS INSANITY, although I think the people behind this are driven and completely insane.

          • Freemenright!

            Thanks for the information!! Will pass it on to some of my contacts.

  • christine

    Obama has been on c-span with the presidents of Mexico and Canada. He fudged around the Mexican/America border question. He heavily talked about the flu season approaching and how each country is responsibly prepared. This frightens me like no other. In my lifetime, I’ve never seen a president pre-announce an illness with the information and warnings I have about it and the vaccination.

    Bird Flu Distributed by Dept of Homeland Security

    What do you think?

  • Herewe Goagain

    In an effort to protect the the saintly image of Barack Obama as his popularity plummets to new lows, the White House has ensured there will be no opposing voices to the Obamacare agenda when the President makes a town hall appearance in New Hampshire tomorrow.

    The Secret Service will also be keeping a close eye on the throngs of protesters that are likely to gather outside.

    However, the many liberal commentators who rightly slammed President George W. Bush for his numerous scripted town hall meetings are noticeably silent in their criticism of Obama’s similarly staged event.

    “The White House controlled the distribution of the free tickets to get into the gym at Portsmouth High School. And the Secret Service will take care of any unruliness,” reports the Boston Globe today.

  • longshotlouie
  • VR


  • longshotlouie

    August 24th – Mark Your Calender

    We Will Be Making A Wake Up Call
    To Barney Frank And Nancy Pelosi

    Spread The News

  • longshotlouie
  • longshotlouie
    • Christine

      Good God, who is that news guy? Totally irritating and what an idiot. No class. For some, that kind of disrespectful action will cause them to check out Peter Schiff on their own to find out what he thinks…without the media.

  • If it were just a matter of money needed to fund the most necessary medical situations, including infra-structure, practitioners, treatment regimens, pharmaceuticals, etal., it could work by just using the excess profits the insurance companies now make (up 10-fold from 10 years ago), or with realistic caps and pay-outs to lawyers in malpractice cases, or by making more drugs generic and charging more of a “world” price instead of letting Americans foot that bill as well. Of course offending practitioners should be dealt with creatively to help the system, like how about some “charity work”, as well as remedial education and monitoring ?

    • longshotlouie

      Wow, are you our new Big Brother.