45 responses to “Ron Paul and Rand Paul discuss Politics and Healthcare on CNN”

  1. dave obrian

    “People also see the reports from England where there is a breast cancer drug called Herceptin that blocks the estrogen receptors.” -Rand Paul

    BTW, Herceptin does not block estrogen receptors. Tamoxifen does, but Herceptin does not. Herceptin works via a completely different pathway. I sure am glad Rand is not my doctor.

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  2. christine

    No health insurance companies, no government involvement. No electronic records either. Privacy. We don’t need any of it.

    Just me and the doc.

    More focus on wellness care, natural “medicine” that actually cures and does not give you another illness, for which you will need another drug, etc. We already support the drug cartel with an elite lifestyle, and they just want more. They have worked their way into buying off politicians and running our government. I say, starve ‘em! When they want more, they give us drugs that keep the ball rolling in their court, or should I say dollars into their bank accounts. Gotta stop it through our choices.

    The medical industry needs to bring down their prices for health care services, drugs and fees so they are affordable, just like any other business. Simple. Uncomplicated.

    If the government is involved or an insurance company, we have to pay for the services + salaries to process claims and they want to choose who gets what. NO! They are not doctors. They are money and power hungry number crunchers, without morals. If the government gets involved, government will expand by 31 more agencies! That’s a lot of federal government, a lot of paychecks, more taxes. Will not lower costs. Will increase them and lower coverage as time goes. Just me and the doc, just the fees for the services and drugs. The more people you add to a system, the more waste, fraud and chance of a big complicated mess that you cannot undo once it is done.

    People think too much. KISS…keep it simple stupid.

    »crosslinked«

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    1. christine

      …Oh, and did I say that the president doesn’t really run the country, that he gets his directives from the shadow government, the elite, the folks with the bucks? And that even if he did run the country, he never keeps his word? Have you noticed that his words mean one thing to us, but yet another thing to him? He gets an “A” in both lieing and deceipt.

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  3. VR

    Jus’thinkin’ …..

    Something called NICE wouldn’t have ‘rules’.
    They like the word ‘guidance’.

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    1. sean

      Your idea of nice is a world of chaos.

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      1. VR

        That’s real nice. Is attack your only mode?

        Chaos is growing, and I’m not getting any satisfaction.
        Your heros have created this chaos, and promising more.

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        1. sean

          I agree.. This is becoming a little bit chaotic. But rules are better than no rules.

          Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
          -Thomas Paine

          You have no idea who my hero’s are.

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  4. David OBrien

    “To the point, the issue is government control of HC and medicine. People here do not feel they have the right to do it”

    Do people here feel than Medicare is bad? Do people here feel that it is better for insurance companies to have control of HC and medicine? Why is it better for insurance companies to have this control, but not the government?

    “I welcome your research to show that Rand’s soundbites were just that, soundbites.”

    They were lies. “Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq” was a lie, not a soundbite.

    “They didn’t have the full story and neither does half of what anyone is saying.”

    Rand Paul is an opthamologist. If he doesn’t have the full story about the material he is injecting into people’s eyes, then that is another problem. Rand knew what he was going to say about Herceptin before the interview. These interviews are scripted. When a politician says something on CNN, he should know the full story. In reality, he did know the full story about Herceptin, which is why I say he lied.

    “In the treatment you brought up, it shows more of a failing on the governement’s side than on the pharm company. Companies are in the business to make money, they created the drug, went through 13 years to test it and bring it to the market. If they wanted to stop production of it, regardless of how good it is, they should have that right.”

    I don’t know what this means. Genentech did not stop production of anything. Both Avastin and Lucentis are still on the market.

    “What Rand and you really highlighted, at least to me, is that the FDA doesn’t have an avenue for allowing doctors to submit data to apply for an application of a drug for a new use when the pharm company doesn’t want to fund it. That to me is a failure on the government agency, and surely is part of the corruption you mentioned. More government won’t fix that!”

    First of all, Rand did not highlight anything. He said that in the UK you had to be blind in one eye before thay will give you Avastin. That is what Rand highlighted. What Rand said, however, makes no sense, and he knows it. The UK cannot and never has given anyone Avastin for macular degeneration, because they cannot prescribe off-label. For that reason, the UK has to use a drug that is 40 times more expensive. Rand did not highlight that. He also did not highlight the fact that the situation where Lucentis (NOT Avastin) could only be used in the second eye was because
    Lucentis costs a thousand dollars a shot, not $50 per injection like Avastin. That is a big thing not to highlight. Also, Rand did not highlight the fact that the UK now, and for the past 2 years, does prescribe the $1,000 a shot drug. The government could correct this situation if it wanted to. They could fund an Avastin study themselves. Yes, they are corrupt by not doing so.

    “More government won’t fix that!”

    Yes it would. More government would mean a government that makes its corporations do the moral thing, instead of the thing that makes more money.

    “If drugs cost $20k but cost the patient nothing, why not go for the $20k drug instead of the cheaper alternative? If you have a sprain, but I (as a doctor) could get more money by adding or refusing you some care based on government rules, why wouldn’t I do it?”

    The doctor does not make any money from prescribing a $20k drug. Pharma companies do. I am not sure what you are getting at here. A treatment has to be logical for the ailment being treated. Doctors in the UK have no more or less freedom in treatment options than in the US. The NHS regulates treatment in the UK. Insurance companies regulate treatment in the US. An insurance company in the US is not going to let a doctor prescribe Herceptin for a sprained ankle and more than the NHS is. You’ll have to explain this better if I am not responding to what you are getting at.

    “The simple fact is the more government steps in, the more they muck up the situation between the doctor and the patient.”

    This is not a simple fact. This is an opinion you have which is based on pharma company and insurance company propaganda. The government “steps in” in other countries more than in the US in every first world country on earth, and every other first world country has better health care (according to every comparative study I have ever seen in my life).

    “Does the government have the ability to make complicated, individualized rules that fit to every possible situation and patient out there?”

    The rules are not complicated or individualized. Here are the rules for Herceptin:

    http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/TA107QuickRefGuide.pdf

    Doesn’t look so hard to me.

    You are right, however, that our government does not presently have the right to make guidelines for treatments. That’s because we don’t have single payer healthcare.

    “No, and that’s why they shouldn’t be involved.”

    This is crazy logic. You are saying that because we don’t have single payer health care, that is why we shouldn’t have single payer health care. That is illogical.

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  5. VR

    Media hype to sell new drugs

    http://jrsm.rsmjournals.com/cgi/reprint/101/3/125.pdf

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    1. David OBrien

      Good article. We could save tens of billions by going to a single payer system, and even more beyond that by educating people about some of these new drugs. Some of these ultra expensive drugs have not even been shown to lengthen life! When they do show that lifespan is increased by the drug, it is usually by 3 to 4 months. The main purpose of these drugs is to pay my salary (I am a pharma chemist), not to save peoples lives. You save lives with vaccines and screening. Screening is not as sexy as monoclonal antibodies, so it is not talked about. Screening is the single best way to save lives, though. That is why a country like Cuba can spend one twentieth on health care as the US does, and have an identical life expectancy.

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    2. David OBrien

      Pharma companies (aka the government – at least in regard to health care), are never going to promote screening. It is much more profitable to let people get cancer than prevent it, because then you can prescribe them a $20,000 a year drug to treat it so they can live an extra 3 months. It’s too bad that the government cannot promote, or pay for, screening in order to save lives. That would be evil “big government”.

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  6. Blackie_Chan

    Dave O’Brian,

    To the point, the issue is government control of HC and medicine. People here do not feel they have the right to do it, and that is the basic of it. I welcome your research to show that Rand’s soundbites were just that, soundbites. They didn’t have the full story and neither does half of what anyone is saying. You have done your job as an American to take the ideal of rugged individualism and self educate yourself on the topic. Good job, you are now in the small group of people that do what they should do in the first place.

    Now that said, the government has no right to tell a company how it should invest its money and time in opening up a drug for a simple application. In the treatment you brought up, it shows more of a failing on the governement’s side than on the pharm company. Companies are in the business to make money, they created the drug, went through 13 years to test it and bring it to the market. If they wanted to stop production of it, regardless of how good it is, they should have that right. What Rand and you really highlighted, at least to me, is that the FDA doesn’t have an avenue for allowing doctors to submit data to apply for an application of a drug for a new use when the pharm company doesn’t want to fund it. That to me is a failure on the government agency, and surely is part of the corruption you mentioned. More government won’t fix that!

    Even worse, doctors have the availability to risk their practice on prescribing these drugs to help patients. When drugs, HC, etc. are all free, who cares about cost??!?!?!?!? That is what your arguement really is which to me highlights the future greed and the unsustainable costs that HC will have. If drugs cost $20k but cost the patient nothing, why not go for the $20k drug instead of the cheaper alternative? If you have a sprain, but I (as a doctor) could get more money by adding or refusing you some care based on government rules, why wouldn’t I do it?

    The simple fact is the more government steps in, the more they muck up the situation between the doctor and the patient. Does the government have a role in establishing safety standards so patients are defrauded, misinformed, or taken advantage of? Sure do. Does the government have the ability to make complicated, individualized rules that fit to every possible situation and patient out there? No, and that’s why they shouldn’t be involved.

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  7. longshotlouie

    This was not a lecture on Lucentis. Basic questions with basic answers in an interview of a few short minutes, that’s it.

    Your nitpicking is way over the top.

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    1. David OBrien

      Nitpicking? Rand made it sound like the UK won’t use a drug that we use routinely. Not mentioning that they cannot use the drug because it is not approved for that indication, and instead have to use a drug that costs 40 times more, is nitpicking? Not mentioning that the indeed approved the drug that is 40 times as expensive as what we use over 2 years ago is nitpicking?

      What about Herceptin? Rand said it was not available in the UK. It has been available for 7 years! Is that nitpicking?

      You are blind. You need some Avastin.

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      1. longshotlouie

        Your Herceptin rant was already debunked above.

        Why do you find it necessary to be confrontational and condescending in your responses?

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        1. David OBrien

          I replied to your debunking. You debunked nothing.

          “Why do you find it necessary to be confrontational and condescending in your responses?”

          I get frustrated when people cannot let information change their views. I have certain views, but if I see information that necessitates an alteration of those views, then I alter them. This seems easy to me. Most people adopt a certain worldview, then refuse to alter it for the rest of their life regardless of what information they run across. They simply block out what does not agree with their pre-conceived worldview. I don’t understand this, and it frustrates me. Sorry if I offended you.

          If you want Ron Paul to be president, you must agree that a lot of people must change their minds about him. Don’t you see that that is impossible? Aren’t you showing yourself that it is impossible? People never change their minds. I showed you a very clear case of a person that you support lying, and you cannot accept it, much less change your mind about him. People are unable to accept information that goes against their pre-conceived beliefs.

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        2. sean

          You just don’t know when to shut up longnutool.

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          1. David OBrien

            Nice rebuttal. I withdraw everything I said.

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  8. David OBrien

    “I’m in the business of eye surgery and eye disease, and one of the common diseases in the eye is abnormal blood vessels that grow into the back of the eye, called macular degeneration. We inject a drug called Avastin. In England you had to prove that you were blind in one eye before they might let you use it in the second eye.”

    Very deceptive. First of all, why is Rand Paul injecting Avastin into people’s eyes? Avastin is approved for colorectal cancer, lung cancer, breast cancer, and renal cell carcinoma:

    http://www.avastin.com/avastin/index.jsp?hl=en&q=avastin&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10

    The same company that makes Avastin, Genentech, makes a drug called Lucentis, which is approved for macular degeneration:

    http://www.lucentis.com/lucentis/?hl=en&q=lucentis&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10

    So why doesn’t Rand use Lucentis, which is the “correct” medicine to use? He doesn’t because Avastin costs $50 per dose for macular degeneration, and Lucentis costs $2,000 per dose. Avastin works as well as Lucentis, so doctors in the US use it instead, even though Avastin is not approved for macular degeneration:

    http://www.macular.org/lucentis.html

    A full treatment using Lucentis can cost $20,000, and Avastin costs only a tiny fraction of that. Genentech makes both Avastin and Lucentis. Genentech refuses to seek FDA approval to use Aventis for macular degeneration, because they would rather sell Lucentis at 40 times the cost, even though it is no better than Avastin. The government will do nothing about this situation, because the pharma industry, (along with the bankers and the weapons industry), owns the government. In the US, we can get around the Genentech scam by prescribing Avastin for an unapproved indication. In the UK, the NHS is not allowed to recommend a medicine for something it is not approved for. In the UK, they have to approve the insanely expensive Lucentis. So Rand was technically correct. Because Lucentis cost $20,000 for a course of treatment, they initially had the restriction that it could only be used for the second eye. People complained about this, however, so the NHS reversed that rule, and Lucentis is now available immediately:

    http://www.healthdirect.co.uk/2007/12/nice-u-turn-on-eye-drug-will-save-sight.html

    The NHS approved Lucentis on December 13, 2007. Rand said that “in England you had to prove that you were blind in one eye…”. He said “had”, because he was talking about a momentary situation that existed nearly 2 years ago. Rand did not mention that the NHS did approve the outrageously expensive Lucentis soon after. He did not mention the greed of Genentech, or the inaction of our government in fixing the Aventis/Lucentis situation. He did not mention that the NHS has to run its own studies on using Aventis for macular degeneration because Genentech refuses to do so.

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  9. David OBrien

    Herceptin IS available in the UK. Sow what about the cost of it? Herceptin cost about $36,000 a year in the US. For people without insurance, it is highly likely that they won’t have the money for it, so they don’t get it. And even for those with insurance, copayments can still be quite high. This woman in the US, who has insurance, still pays $9,600 per year out of pocket for her Herceptin:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-07-10-cancer-costs_x.htm

    In the UK, Herceptin is free.

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    1. longshotlouie

      Free?

      lmao

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      1. David OBrien

        Yes, genius. The public is taxed for their health care in the UK. Having to pay a known quantity through taxes is very different than getting cancer and needing Herceptin, and suddenly having to pay $30k per year out of pocket if you don’t have insurance, and $10k per year if you do. But maybe you don’t want to be taxed more for universal health care? If we adopted a single payer system like other countries have, the cos would go DOWN. The UK spends 2.5 times less per capita on health care than the US does. All first world countries spend less. Your response might be “we spend more but we have a better system.” If we have a better system, show me. Show me any a quantitative study on a non-trivial issue that was done anywhere at any time that shows the US system is better than other first world countries. You cannot, because that study does not exist. The US comes at or near the bottom in all comparative studies. If the US system was better, then why does Rand have to bring up 2 exaples to show it is better that in reality are lies? If the US system was better, would he be able to easily find truthful statements to back it up?

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        1. longshotlouie

          So isn’t everyone else paying for my drugs and treatment?

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          1. David OBrien

            I don’t understand what you mean. In any type of pool system, people contribute to the pool and then withdraw from it when necessary. You have to be more specific if you want a better reply.

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          2. longshotlouie

            So, everyone else is paying for my drugs and treatment?

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  10. David OBrien

    “People also see the reports from England where there is a breast cancer drug called Herceptin that blocks the estrogen receptors. It’s not available in England because it’s too expensive.”

    Lie. Herceptin has been available in England since 2002:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/acircpound20000ayear-cancer-drug-approved-for-nhs-654174.html

    In June, 2006, Herceptin was approved for early stage breast cancer, 5 months before it was approved in the US;

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5058952.stm

    http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/ Press Announcements/2006/ucm 108 788.htm

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    1. longshotlouie

      According to N.I.C.E. Herceptin (only in combination with paclitaxel) is available after the failing of other treatment courses, and the patient is in late stage cancer.

      The point being: the cost decision in a government system …
      … and it won’t be the patient or doctor that determines cost-efficiency.

      http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/advancedbreastcancerno34PDF.pdf

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      1. David OBrien

        “According to N.I.C.E. Herceptin…is available after the failing of other treatment courses, and the patient is in late stage cancer.”

        The PDF you link to is from 2002. Please pay attention. The initial approval in 2002 was for late stage metastatic cancer. This was the same situation as in the US, where the initial approval was for metastatic cancer. In 2006, the NHS approved Herceptin for EARLY Stage cancer, which is why the BBC article I linked to mentions “early stage breast cancer”. Understand? Approval in the US for early stage breast cancer came 5 months AFTER the approval in the UK, as my FDA link shows. Please read and try and understand what I post so I don’t have to repeat myself.

        “(only in combination with paclitaxel)”

        So now have a treatment regimen with multiple drugs is bad?? Would offering only Herceptin without paclitaxel be better? Herceptin is approved in the US as part of a treatment regimen as well:

        “as part of a treatment regimen consisting of doxorubicin, cyclophosphamide, and either paclitaxel or docetaxel”

        http://www.gene.com/gene/products/information/pdf/herceptin-prescribing.pdf

        “won’t be the patient or doctor that determines cost-efficiency”

        You think the patient and the doctor determine what treatment is to be used in the US? That’s very funny.

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        1. longshotlouie

          “Will It Go Round In Circles?”

          Please pay attention? You really are a skunk of a human.

          What I posted was the latest from N.I.C.E.
          If you had something to supplant it you would have posted it, rather than your own bloviations.

          And now your final response to me is to nitpick your own nitpicking.

          I’ll leave this to someone that would enjoy dancing around the maypole with you.

          Hasta la vista, smartass troll.

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          1. David OBrien

            “What I posted was the latest from N.I.C.E.” -longshotlouie

            Here is longshotlouie’s posted link:

            http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/advancedbreastcancerno34PDF.pdf

            From page 2: “MARCH 2002″

            You are very funny!

            “Why do you find it necessary to be confrontational and condescending in your responses?” -longshotlouie at 11:16 a.m.

            “If you had something to supplant it you would have posted it, rather than your own bloviations…Hasta la vista, smartass troll.” 8 minutes later at 11:24 a.m., after louie’s “debunking” is shown to be completely incoherent.

            Very funny.

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          2. David OBrien

            “What I posted was the latest from N.I.C.E.
            If you had something to supplant it you would have posted it, rather than your own bloviations.”

            As I said, you report is from 2002, when Herceptin was approved for matastic cancer only. Same as in the US. Now it is approved “for the adjuvant treatment of EARLY-STAGE HER2-positive breast cancer”;

            http://guidance.nice.org.uk/TA107

            For early stage breast cancer, it was approved by the evil NHS 5 months earlier than in the US.

            Imbecile.

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        2. David OBrien

          longshotlouie says:

          “According to N.I.C.E. Herceptin…is available…”

          Rand Paul says:

          “[Herceptin] is not available in England…”

          Yet, longshotlouie cannot admit that Rand lied.

          Know what? I used to be a big Ron Paul supporter. I cannot be one anymore. I cannot support people who lie abnd deceive, because I never know when they are telling the truth or not. So I stop supporting Ron and Rand Paul. I am not able to do the mental gymnastics necessary to retain my support for somebody after I see them lie.

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          1. longshotlouie

            Sayonara !!

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  11. christine

    Practice a Little Preventative Medicine …and Stop Our Government NOW.

    I know many of us are justifiably complaining about issues with our government. Some of us are feeling there is little that we can do to actually see an immediate change, some relief from so much negativity coming at us at once. We’re enduring financial hardships, joblessness, and seeing our liberties being taken away by the passing of each new law, our personal wealth stolen and our kids in debt before they have even been born.

    Well, I suggest to you now that each one of us has an opportunity right now, TODAY, to make a huge change in the course of history and help our nation avoid a lot more misery, pain and suffering.

    No one here doubts that much of our government is secretive and working against us. We are angry about the shadow government, the elite bankers and those within the FED, with Goldman Sachs and major corporations who are surrounding us like an army, taking our wealth and taking our country down. We have felt helpless. This all goes against what America is to us in our hearts was at its inception. It is land of a free people, not an oppressed people.

    http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=352%3Acomplaint-to-stop-enforced-vaccinations-in-washington-state&catid=1%3Alatest-news&lang=en

    I would like you to take a look at a complaint being filed in Washington State. The print is tiny (CTRL+ will give you larger print). Be sure to read through it all the way to the end. You will get an education! If you have anger towards any of the elite and secret groups, NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM ! YOUR COMPLAINT CAN CAUSE AN INVESTIGATION AND CRIMINAL CHARGES TO BE LEVELED AGAINST THOSE WHO HAVE HARMED US AND CONTINUE TO HARM US. They won’t stop themselves, so we have to. We call it then end of tyranny. Let’s get back to living fully in freedom. We need to eradicate them from our financial and governmental system! This complaint summarizes one of the largest crimes planned against Americans and other people around the world, ever! This is global. It will start in a couple of months, mid-October, so we haven’t much time to act. Point by point, you will see that this fall our government with several other organizations listed in the complaint have actually planned to harm us in ways we could never have ever imagine. Obama has appeared on television telling us how he has encouraged several countries to be prepared to also force vaccinate its citizens. As he puts it “they are responsibly prepared”. Nice sounding, but far from nice.

    Names like Goldman Sachs, the elite bankers, criminal syndicate, the World Health Organization (WHO) and many others, several in Illinois, and drug executives who plan to make a lot of money from the sale of a vaccine for the H1N1 virus, but this vaccine is contaminated and lethal. A criminal indictment has firstly been filed against WHO and others by Jane Bergermeister.

    Charges Filed Against Baxter and Avir
    http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2009/04/

    Help take down the criminals who have stolen so much from us already, and who now plan to systematically take our very lives, once again under the guise of helping us. No, they are not helping us, they are helping themselves to everything we own if we die from this vaccine! There is so much documentation. Get legal counsel if you need to. Talk it over with others, but please consider filing a complaint in your state. Who will stand up and put your anger to good use? As Ron Paul says, we need to convert that energy of anger into good use. Here’s your opportunity.

    A Guide to Filing for an Injunction in a State
    http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=351%3Aa-guide-to-filing-an-injunction-in-a-state&catid=1%3Alatest-news&lang=en

    You can also visit my website at http://livingquests.com for links to more interviews with Jane, videos and info. It’s not a fancy website, but it will do for now.

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  12. christine

    Complaint to stop enforced vaccinations in Washington State

    http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=352%3Acomplaint-to-stop-enforced-vaccinations-in-washington-state&catid=1%3Alatest-news&lang=en

    YEAH!! You can file a case as well to stop the mandatory vaccinations of our citizens! She says it’s easy. Instructions below.

    http://www.theflucase.com
    http://www.bird666.wordpress.com

    A Guide to Filing for an Injunction in a State

    http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=351%3Aa-guide-to-filing-an-injunction-in-a-state&catid=1%3Alatest-news&lang=en

    The Sates are to uphold our constitutional rights!!
    Liberty, not Tyranny! File a complaint in your state!
    End this senseless terror inside our country!

    Power is in the hands of the people! …in the constitution.

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  13. christine

    I strongly suggest that everyone get educated and pay attention to what is happening concerning the upcoming government-controlled, mass, forced flu vaccination plan. We only have a couple of months before we will be hit with something larger than any other issue. This is designed to change our country, the world as we know it.

    Much has already been posted on the several “Health” sections of this forum. Please check out the information, especially more towards the bottom of the entries.

    For anyone who is working towards preserving our liberty, freedom from tyranny…check out the agenda (there’s always an agenda) from the Swine Flu Conference held in Washington D.C., especially #2 & #6

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/32605.html
    http://www.new-fields.com/ISFC/brochure.pdf

    Jane Bergermeister has filed a criminal indictment against the World Health Organization (WHO) and Obama due to the evidence she has about contaminated flu vaccines being distributed for mass depopulation. Know her story, her case.

    Important Websites to Keep Informed
    http://birdflu666.wordpress.com
    http://theflucase.com

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  14. christine

    Horrors of Vaccination Exposed and Illustrated in a petition to the President to abolish compulaory vaccination in the Army and Navy, a book from 1919

    http://www.drcarley.com/Horrors_of_Vaccination_Exposed.pdf

    America and the world need governments to return to the constitutional rights of the individual, and in failing to do so, it is our duty as Americans to abolish any laws against our inalienable rights. Our government, the United States Corporation, has gone seriously wayward.

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  15. christine

    Because Obama seems to be proceeding with the bird flu pandemic mandatory vacciantion plan, including several other countries, Canada, Mexico, America, Germany, France and maybe others, this will result in an infringement on your civil rights.

    I have been doing research on the topic and advise you to keep a copy, send a copy of this letter of criminal charges filed against the World Health Organizationa, Dr. Margaret Chan to political contacts, military and law enforcement so they will be less inclined to work in conjunction with the government to step on your civil rights.

    http://www.drcarley.com/pdf/Jane's_Criminal_Indictment_to_WHO.pdf

    Jane Bergermeister is the one who has filed several charges. Her new website is at

    http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/

    You can also do a youtube search to listen to several interviews she has given on the topic of manufactured bird flu pandemic and the harmful effects of the contaminated vaccinations/vaccinations.

    Vaccines – The True Weapons of Mass Destruction 1-15
    by Dr. Carley
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6dffXhewVE

    Jane Burgermeister on the Planned WHO H1N1 Planned Genocide with Dr. Carley 1-8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHxHmHa9qvs&feature=related

    We only have maybe a couple of months until a pandemic can be put into affect. Urgent information taking presidence. Be informed, know what is happening. Inform friends and family.

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  16. VR
  17. Herewe Goagain

    Pg 632 Lines 14-25 The Government may implement any “Quality measure” of health care services as they see fit.

    PG 633 14-25/ 634 1-9 The Secretary may issue non-endorsed “Quality Measures” for Physician Services and Dialysis Services.

    Pg 635 to 653 Physicians Payments Sunshine Provision – Government wants to shine sunlight on doctor but not government.

    Pg 654-659 Public Reporting on Health Care-Associated Infections – Looks okay.

    PG 660-671 Doctors in Residency – Government will tell you where your residency will be, thus where you’ll live.

    Pg 676-686 Government will regulate hospitals in EVERY aspect of residency programs, including teaching hospitals.

    Pg 686-700 Increased Funding to Fight Waste, Fraud, and Abuse. You mean like the government with an $18 million website? Or $60 billion in Medicare and Medicaid fraud every year?

    PGs 701-704 Sec 1619 If your part of health care plan isn’t in Government Health Care Exchange but you qualify for Federal aid, no payment.

    PG 705-709 SEC. 1128 If Secretary gets complaints on health care provider or supplier, government can do background check.

    PG 711 Lines 8-14 The Secretary has broad powers to deny health care providers/ suppliers admittance into Health Care Exchange. Your doctor could be thrown out of business.

    Pg 719-720 Sec 1637 ANY Doctor who orders durable medical equipment or home medical services MUST be enrolled in Medicare.

    PG 722 Sec 1639 Government MANDATES doctors must have face-to-face with patient to certify patient for Home Health Services.

    PG 724 23-25 PG 725 1-5 The same government certifications will apply to Medicaid and CHIP.

    PG 724 Lines 16-22 Government reserves right to apply face-to-face certification for patient to ANY other health care service.

    Pg 735 lines 16-25 For law enforcement, proposes the Secretary-HHS will give Attorney General access to ALL data.

    PG 740-757 Government sets guidelines for subsidizing the uninsured.

    Pg 757-762 Federal Government will shift burden of payments to Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) to States. (Taxes)

    Pg 763 1-8 No DS/EA hospitals will be paid unless they provide services without regard to national origin.

    Pg 765 Sec 1711 Government will require Preventative Services including vaccines.

    Pg 768 Sec 1713 Government – Nurse Home Visitation Services

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  18. Herewe Goagain

    Pg 268 Sec 1141 Federal Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

    Pg 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing! Many cancer treatments will not work unless implemented early, but the waiting time just to see a specialist will likely be months when this plan is implemented. As you can see in this bill, the option of the health care bureaucrat is to deny treatment to those they deem not likely to be helped by it. Watch the cancer death rate skyrocket, like in Canada and the U.K.

    Page 280 Sec 1151 The government will penalize hospitals for what government deems preventable readmissions (Incentives for hospital to not treat and release).

    Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors that treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission-Government will penalize you.

    Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.

    Pg 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Government is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

    pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception, BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

    Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 – Government mandates establishment of outcome based measures. Health Care the way they want. Rationing.

    Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans (Part B), HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Government plan.

    Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Government will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people!

    Pg 379 Sec 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Tele-health Advisory Committee. Health care by phone/Internet?

    Pg 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance [Death] Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life.

    Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

    Pg 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

    Pg 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The government has a say in how your life ends.

    Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An “adv. care planning consult” will be used frequently as patient’s health deteriorates.

    Pg 429 Lines 10-12 “adv. care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government.

    Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The government will specify which doctors can write an end of life order.

    PG 430 Lines 11-15 The government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life. The above really does give the government the authority to determine who lives and dies, and when. A government bureaucrat really will be making this decision for you and your loved ones.

    Pg 469 – Community Based Home Medical Services=Non-profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

    Pg 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

    Pg 489 Sec 1308 The government will cover Marriage and Family therapy. They will insert government into your marriage.

    Pg 494-498 Government will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.

    PG 502 Sec 1181 Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research Established. – Hello Big Brother – Literally.

    Pg 503 Lines 13-19 Government will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic medical records.

    Pg 503 lines 21-25 Government may secure data directly from any department or agency of the U.S., including your data.

    Pg 504 Lines 6-10 The “Center” will collect data both published and unpublished (that means public and your private info).

    PG 506 Lines 19-21 The Center will recommend policies that would allow for public access of data.

    PG 518 Lines 21-25 The Commission will have input from Health Care consumer reps – Can you say unions and ACORN?

    PG 524 18-22 Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund set up. More taxes for ALL.

    PG 621 Lines 20-25 Government will define what quality means in health care. Since when does government know about quality?

    Pg 622 Lines 2-9 To pay for the Quality Standards, government will transfer money from other government Trust Funds. More Taxes.

    PG 624 “Quality” measures shall be designed to assess outcomes and functional status of patients.

    PG 624 “Quality” measures shall be designed to profile you including race, age, gender, place of residence, etc.

    Pg 628 Sec 1443 Government will give “Multi-Stake Holders” Pre-Rule Making input into Selection of “Quality” Measures.

    Pg 630 9-24/631 1-9 Those multi-stake holder groups include unions and groups like ACORN deciding health care quality.

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  19. Herewe Goagain

    Among the myriad of outrageous assaults on freedom contained in this monstrosity, to “provide” Americans with nationalized health care, Government will require real-time direct electronic access to the financial assets of all Americans (page 58 of the Bill).

    But it gets a lot worse. The health care you receive will be rationed according to your age, life expectancy, and the expected quality of that life. And this, from page 427: “Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The government has a say in how your life ends.”

    For these “benefits,” we give up the finest health care in the world!

    Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Government will audit the books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!

    Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC Bill – YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!

    Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC Bill – THERE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

    Pg 42 of HC Bill – The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your benefits for you. You have no choice!

    Pg 50 Section 152 in HC Bill – HC will be provided to ALL non-U.S. citizens, illegal or otherwise

    Pg 58 HC Bill – Government will have real-time access to individual’s finances and a National ID Health Care Card will be issued!

    Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your banks accounts for electronic funds transfer.

    (NOTE FROM RJ-This really does mean they can take your money at any time. Who will have this authority?—a government bureaucrat.)

    Pg 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions and community organizations (ACORN).

    Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government is creating a Health Care Exchange to bring private health care plans under government control.

    Pg 84 Sec 203 HC Bill – Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private health care plans in the Exchange

    Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The government will ration your health care!

    Pg 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill – Government mandates linguistic appropriate services.

    Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The government will use groups i.e., ACORN & AmeriCorps to sign up individuals for government Health Care Plan

    Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members – Your health care WILL be rationed

    Pg 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill – Medicaid Eligible Individual will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

    Pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue the government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against government monopoly.

    Pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill – Doctors/ #AMA – The government will tell YOU what you can make.

    Pg 145 Line 15-17 An employer MUST auto enroll employees into public opt plan. NO CHOICE

    Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part-time employees AND their families.

    Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer w/ payroll 400k and above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

    Pg 268 Sec 1141 Federal Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

    Pg 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing! Many cancer treatments will not work unless implemented early, but the waiting time just to see a specialist will likely be months when this plan is implemented. As you can see in this bill, the option of the health care bureaucrat is to deny treatment to those they deem not likely to be helped by it. Watch the cancer death rate skyrocket, like in Canada and the U.K.

    Page 280 Sec 1151 The government will penalize hospitals for what government deems preventable readmissions (Incentives for hospital to not treat and release).

    Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors that treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission-Government will penalize you.

    Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.

    Pg 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Government is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

    pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception, BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

    Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 – Government mandates establishment of outcome based measures. Health Care the way they want. Rationing.

    Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans (Part B), HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Government plan.

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  20. christine

    The information seems truthful, difficult to imagine, but Obama met with the presidents of Mexico and Canada (broadcast on c-span today) and he re-emphasised that these countries are responsibly prepared for the pandemic this fall, soon. I have never heard a president forecast something that does not naturally occur …how would he know with such certainty that it will unless these videos are true? There is so much history in them. He also met with the president of France and said they are also prepared.

    Bird flu pandemic on the horizon? 1/12

    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzm4mrE6HY8&feature=related
    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsSSQ0xUKxU&feature=related
    3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ySdzlk5sFk&feature=related
    4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccR0qvWF1ZA&feature=related
    5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gKZIRZAbK8&feature=related
    6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFyfwrj76Oo&feature=related
    7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHQu3OTKB4k&feature=related
    8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm6xIrFB640&feature=related
    9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm00QRUj8Ds&feature=related
    10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QFKQw30sA&feature=related
    11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdco8AFmRBw&feature=related
    12. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngexnh2rjTg&feature=related

    I also stumbled upon this one…frightening

    Bird Flu Distributed by Dept of Homeland Security
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qJQCJp4ehc&feature=related

    Perhaps we should be contacting our congressmen and women, representatives instead of just waiting for this to happen. People should be shouting and demanding they put a stop to this! 911 happened, this one doesn’t have to… These new world order folks have really stepped over the line and into the darkside.

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  21. VR

    Nader Was Right: Liberals Are Going Nowhere With Obama

    The American empire has not altered under Barack Obama. It kills as brutally and indiscriminately in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan as it did under George W. Bush. It steals from the U.S. treasury to enrich the corporate elite as rapaciously. It will not give us universal health care, abolish the Bush secrecy laws, end torture or “extraordinary rendition,” restore habeas corpus or halt the warrantless wiretapping and monitoring of citizens. It will not push through significant environmental reform, regulate Wall Street or end our relationship with private contractors that provide mercenary armies to fight our imperial wars and produce useless and costly weapons systems.

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090810_nader_was_right_liberals_are_going_nowhere_with_obama/

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  22. VR

    Father of Handicapped Son Received Threats After Confrontation With Rep. Dingell
    http://www.breitbart.tv/father-of-handicapped-son-received-threats-after-confrontation-with-rep-dingell/

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