The People Don’t Believe the Government’s Healthcare Promises

Show: Anderson Cooper 360°
Host: Anderson Cooper
Date: August 20, 2009


Anderson Cooper: We talked about the president’s moves with former Republican presidential candidate and congressman, Ron Paul, earlier today.

Congressman Paul, thanks for being with us. I want to play you something that President Obama said today on Michael Smerconish’s Radio Show. Listen.

Barack Obama: I would love to have more Republicans engaged and involved in this process. I think early on a decision was made by the Republican leadership that said, “Look, let’s not give them a victory. Maybe we can have a replay of 1993/94 when Clinton came in. He failed on healthcare and then we won in the mid-term elections and we got the majority.”

Anderson Cooper: Is that what’s happening? Are Republican leaders obstructing healthcare reform in order to make political gains?

Ron Paul: I think he’s giving the Republicans too much credit. I don’t think we’re that well organized. I think if orders came from top down and said we’re all going to oppose, I don’t think it would happen. But there is partisan squabbling going on, but it’s on both sides, so I can’t see where one side is more partisan than the other. You know, if people don’t agree with one side, they say, “Oh, you’re overly strong partisan” and vice versa. So I don’t put a lot of stock in those type of arguments.

Anderson Cooper: What do you think is going to happen if the White House and Congressional Democrats try to go over it alone and try to just ram through some sort of a bill?

Ron Paul: Oh, I think they’ll pass something, but […] I think they’ll modify their tone a little bit. They won’t try to go for the whole basket. They probably won’t want to have a single payer and they’re going to get something and that’s the way we’ve been doing it for 35-40 years. We’ve had incrementalism. This really started as early as the fifties, but really in the seventies. But once you get the conservatives in, we’re not supposed to believe in expanding government role, but where was the prescription drug program passed? Under the Republicans.

So something will be passed, but I don’t think Obama is going to get everything. There’s too much anger and they’re angry and they’re convinced that the government can’t produce all these promises. They just don’t believe the promises, so that’s why I think they’re going to back off, take what they can get and a few Republicans will join and that would be my prediction. But I really don’t know for sure.

Anderson Cooper: So what do you want? You’re obviously not for government involvement in healthcare, but is it realistic to expect private industry to take care of the 46 million or so Americans who don’t have insurance?

Ron Paul: Well, under today’s circumstances with our tax code, it makes it very difficult and you have to remember that out of that 46 million who don’t have insurance, they include a lot of illegal aliens in there too, so that complicates the matter and some of them aren’t necessarily in need of it. I even have some people in my family, they don’t have it.

But people have accepted the notion that medical care cannot be delivered any other way than through government and I just don’t happen to believe that because governments generally aren’t very efficient in what they do.

Anderson Cooper: And finally, has the dialogue, the debate, at least some of what we’re seeing at these town hall meetings, people comparing President Obama to a Nazi, is that the productive? I mean, when you see these images and you hear the people yelling, what do you think?

Ron Paul: Well, I think it’s very unproductive. I think it’s very destructive and you know me well enough that I was never supportive of much of what George Bush did and I really didn’t like his foreign policy, but generally speaking, whenever I wrote, if you look at all my speeches, I hardly ever, but probably never bring up partisan politics when I’m on the House floor or talk about President Bush, President Bush this or Obama this or Obama that.

So no, I don’t think it’s productive at all. I believe you have deal with ideas. Ideas have consequences. Bad ideas have bad consequences. Good ideas have good consequences and that’s what I deal with because I just as soon avoid the partisan bickering.

Anderson Cooper: Congressman Paul, I appreciate your time, sir. Thank you.

Ron Paul: Thank you.


  • Dolores Y

    A report on Medicare fraud that will reportedly be released shortly by the US Inspector General is said to indicate that more than one-third of spending for medical equipment, by licensed providers, is improper. The United States Attorney has been vigorously prosecuting a large number of Medicare fraud cases this year, and bank customers who provide Medicare services to the public now represent a higher level of risk for this reason. Given the high number of Medicare irregularities being reported, compliance officers would be well advised to institute enhanced due diligence on any prospective bank client engaged in the business of supplying durable medical equipment to Medicare-eligible individuals.

    • sean

      That is not as big of a problem as you think..

      Of course there is going to be fraud, anywhere and everywhere. Of course there are going to be “irregularities” from any businesses public or private.

      Medicare and Medicaid have done things that that the private industry couldn’t of done, and has accomplished wayyyyyy more good than bad.

      yes, medicare and medicaid could be updated like any other businesses to run more efficiently.

  • Dolores Y

    Public education is government owned and operated, and ideologues of various stripes work continuously to effect social engineering by controlling curricula, text books etc. Therefore, public education is socialism.

    • sean

      Ya schooling is a social program.. If you think that the government is using school in a harmful way than I’m just going to stop talking now. There is no point to argue with lunatics.

      • Herewe Goagain

        Best news that we could’ve received.

  • Dolores Y

    The General Accounting Office (GAO) has announced that the U.S. Postal Service is in danger of financial insolvency.
    Last year, the Postal Service lost $2 billion. This year, it’s lost $7 billion and is on track to continue that trajectory. Things are so dire that Postmaster General John E. Potter has requested permission from Congress to stop Saturday mail delivery. Already, the Postal Service has begun subjecting “underperforming mailboxes” to a “density test” and ripping up boxes that don’t make the grade. Talk about a harsh performance review.

    • sean

      okay.. so the post office is hurting during the recession, what business isn’t?

      • Herewe Goagain

        Do you have no qualms about giving a reply that you know is dishonest?

        • sean

          hahahahahahaha! okay, i’m lying. Businesses are thriving!!! I’ve never seen our economy boom this much! are you satisfied?

          • Herewe Goagain

            Dumbass, the post office was hurting long before the recession.

            Your reply was just more dishonesty or complete ignorance, annoying either way.

          • sean

            hahahahahahahaha! dumbass, where do you get your information?

            The post office profited from 2002 to 2007.
            The only years the post office lost money was 1998,2000,2002, and 2008. Most of that was due to high oil prices.

          • Herewe Goagain

            Ten rate increases since Zip+4 and still losing billions.

  • Dolores Y

    Name one government run anything, that works and then prove it.

    • sean

      post office. i get my mail everyday.

      my mother is a teacher, she just got a touch screen dry erase board for her computer.

      my grandparents get lots of help from Medicare.

      I drive on decent roads.

      I work in construction building public schools and civic centers.

      OJ Simpson is in jail…

      • Herewe Goagain

        post office. i get my mail everyday. (losing money hand over fist)

        my mother is a teacher, she just got a touch screen dry erase board for her computer. (no need for the feds in teaching)

        my grandparents get lots of help from Medicare. (going broke in one generation)

        I drive on decent roads. (again, no need for the feds)

        I work in construction building public schools and civic centers. (again, no need for the feds)

        OJ Simpson is in jail…
        (absolutely nothing to do with the feds)

        • sean

          Post office, has only had a few bad years.

          Public funding helps us receive quality education.

          Medicare is going broke because of insurance companies that drive up the cost of health care with trillion dollar profits.

          Who would build roads if the government didn’t?

          Who would build schools if the government didn’t?

          OJ simpson proves the justice system works.

          For your FYI, i wasn’t talking about just the feds. DUmbass, I was talking about local governments as well.

          • Herewe Goagain

            Post office, has only had a few bad years. (billions lost)

            Public funding helps us receive quality education. (when will the quality return?)

            Medicare is going broke because of insurance companies that drive up the cost of health care with trillion dollar profits.
            (Medicare is going broke because of mismanagement and a flawed business plan)

            Who would build roads if the government didn’t? (county governments, without the need to filter our dollars through the federal sieve)

            Who would build schools if the government didn’t? (same as above)

            OJ simpson proves the justice system works. (OJ Simpson proves that those that break the law occasionally land in jail.)

            For your FYI, i wasn’t talking about just the feds. DUmbass, I was talking about local governments as well.
            (Yet you continually confuse one as the other, or are simply unable to distinguish between the two)

            ‘For your FYI, …’?
            Isn’t that redundant?

          • sean

            Ya the post office lost money because of oil prices. Other shipping companies have lost money too. And some shut down.

            lol!! when do we get a return on high quality education? LOL that is a stupid question! obviously when the children grow up. All of our success has come from public funded schools.

            Any flawed business plan can be fixed.

            again, i was talking about country governments building roads.

            OJ simpson was not proven guilty before. Innocent until proven guilty..

            I know the difference between the two. I also know the similarities. They are both ran from public money. You obviously don’t know the difference between the two. I’m still waiting for you to show me a federal tort reform law.

          • Herewe Goagain

            Ya the post office lost money because of oil prices. Other shipping companies have lost money too. And some shut down. (again, billions lost)

            lol!! when do we get a return on high quality education? LOL that is a stupid question! obviously when the children grow up. All of our success has come from public funded schools. (more avoidance, the question was ‘When will the quality return?’ English is tough, even for a teacher’s kid)

            Any flawed business plan can be fixed. (one of your more idiotic statements, and that’s really saying something)

            again, i was talking about country governments building roads. (Then why are we filtering the dollars through the federal government while being held hostage by these same dollars?)

            OJ simpson was not proven guilty before. Innocent until proven guilty.. (I’m pretty sure he is in jail because of a conviction)

            I know the difference between the two. I also know the similarities. They are both ran from public money. You obviously don’t know the difference between the two. I’m still waiting for you to show me a federal tort reform law. (English is tough …. , The difference that you do not recognize is that one is not needed except to defend our inalienable rights and our borders. Both of which they fail miserably)

          • Herewe Goagain

            p.s. Is your mother, the teacher, embarrassed about your grammar and spelling?

            She should be, perpetually.

          • sean

            A billion is a small figure when you are talking about a company the size of the post office.. The post office has also profited billions of dollars in the recent past.

            I did answer your question. education pays off in the long run.

            Business plans can’t be fixed? That’s pretty idiotic. How many business plans have you ever written?

            The federal government does build highways, so we can ship goods across the country.

            Oj simipson is in jail now because he was proven guilty. NO SHIT! In the past he was not convicted guilty.

            You failed to show me one federal tort reform law.

          • Herewe Goagain

            A billion is a small figure when you are talking about a company the size of the post office.. The post office has also profited billions of dollars in the recent past.
            (YA, what’s a few billion here and there. Especially when it’s OPM)

            I did answer your question. education pays off in the long run.
            (no comprende Ingles? ….. You are under a mistaken impression that I asked ‘When will we get a return on the quality?’, when in actuality the question is still ‘When will the quality return?’ English is tough …..)

            Business plans can’t be fixed? That’s pretty idiotic. How many business plans have you ever written?
            (Lack of English comprehension, again. You stated, ‘Any flawed business plan can be fixed.’ …… This is not the same as ‘A business plan can be fixed.’ [just ask your mom])

            The federal government does build highways, so we can ship goods across the country. (easily accomplished at the state level making the feds an unnecessary middle-man)

            Oj simipson is in jail now because he was proven guilty. NO SHIT! In the past he was not convicted guilty. (You can’t lose if you take both sides)

            You failed to show me one federal tort reform law.
            (Not once did I state anything about a federal tort reform.
            The evidence of this is above. Just because a thought gets stuck in your one-dimensional brain does not give it a basis in reality. Hard to believe, I know.)

          • Herewe Goagain

            “Weebles Wobble But They Don’t Fall Down”

            Sean in his most alert state:

          • sean

            We do have high quality education everywhere but inside the major cities. My mother just got a touch screen dry erase board for her computer. That is the HIGHEST quality. I’m sorry if i can’t give your stupid comments a thorough reading, I’m kinda doing three things at once.

            Flaws can be fixed.

            The states have their own budgets and cannot do everything on their own.

            You said all things at a state level are hindered or controlled by the fed. I’m sorry, I thought you were saying that tort reform was controlled by the fed.

          • Herewe Goagain
          • Herewe Goagain

            “My mother just got a touch screen dry erase board for her computer.”


          • Sean

            What? that is true.. You are too much of an ass to know anything. You are sooooo stupid.

            Check this out..

            Little PUNK

  • sean

    I think it is stupid to assume that the quality of care will go down from a government ran health plan. People claim we have the best quality care around and it has been government managed. That obviously proves that they were able to keep high standards and improve life while managing the system.

    The reason why costs have gone up are because of the insurance industry profits.
    The reason why quality wont go down is because they are NOT restricting doctors compensation.

    • Herewe Goagain

      What is stupid is ignoring all of the current and historical evidence, and believing that all of a sudden government can do something that it has never been able to achieve.

      It’s nice to believe in miracles, but that is the domain of The Creator …….. not the state.

      • sean

        what historical evidence? evidence shows that other countries with government health care are more efficient than ours.

        You can’t say that we have high quality care here without ignoring the fact that it has been managed care. Obviously the government was able to keep incentives for quality doctors.

        • Herewe Goagain

          In spite of, not because of ………

          • sean

            Because we didn’t put restrictions on doctors compensation, quality has stayed high.

          • Herewe Goagain

            How nice of us. And now we will steal the golden egg from the goose.

          • sean

            no, we are not restricting doctors compensation. The goose will still get their egg.

        • Herewe Goagain

          More Pie In The Sean Sky

          It’s his comfort food.

  • christine

    When this vaccination is given and then it creates death, crippling disease and problems with fertility, the claims made to corporate insurance companies will be astronomical and put them out of business in short order.

    Then, the only thing left will be

    1. me and my doctor with reasonable prices for services, no government, no big corp insurance companies.
    2. We’ll need to demand that they take the law off the books that makes it illegal for us to buy medications in Canada. That competition will bring the cost of necessary drugs down in America. Attack big pharma.


    2. the government health care monopoly, controlling our lives, who lives, who dies, who gets treatment…under a system that will be horrible to work with, not reduce costs, expand the federal government, increase our taxes, reduce coverage as time goes, and run into the same financial difficulties as social security, medicade, medicare, and cash for clunkers. Their programs are not designed for us! They are designed for profiting the elite.

    • sean

      the government always helps people live and gives treatment to those who can’t afford it. The health insurance picks and chooses who lives and who dies.

      It will reduce the cost of insurance that is currently profiting a trillion+ dollars a year.(A lot more than banks)

      Obama promised not to sign a bill that would add to the deficit. IF… If they do raise taxes, it will be on those making 300,000 a year. Thats a good thing, you would have to be stupid to think that their tax money would trickle its way down like we’re getting pissed on.

      They will not reduce coverage as time goes. There is no evidence of this.

      There were no problems with cash for clunkers. Social security, Medicaid and Medicare are hurting because private insurance companies have driven up the cost of health care with their trillion dollar PROFIT.

      Right now, the elite are the ones making a sucker of you and everyone who is against this bill. The elite are the health insurers. Some CEO makes 100,000 dollars AN HOUR from denying coverage to their own customers. (picking and choosing who dies)

      • sean

        just because you read or watch something doesn’t make it true. it’s natural to be drawn to something that can be portrayed as secretive. Do you think area 51 is real? or do you think people are just drawn to the idea of their actually being aliens?

      • Herewe Goagain

        Pie In The Sean Sky

        “just because you read or watch something doesn’t make it true”
        Especially if it starts with ‘sean replies’.

        • sean

          do you believe in area 51 and aliens?

          • Herewe Goagain

            Area 51 is not a matter of belief, it is on the map.

            I don’t care about aliens, unless they are illegal.

          • sean

            So you believe that there are space ships in area 51?

            Do you believe in aliens?

            If not, than you can admit that conspiracy theories can be wrong.

          • Herewe Goagain

            An admission that conspiracy theories can be wrong?
            What a freaking dufuss. Who would argue against that?

            I stated that there is an Area 51, a fact that is not disputed.
            Again, aliens are irrelevant unless they are illegal.


        • Sean

          hahahaha! you are so stupid. I never asked if area 51 was on the map, i asked if their were aliens there. it is completely relevant to the point I was trying to make until your dumb ass stepped into the conversation.

  • christine

    Health Care Reform Fraud

    Rockefeller Cartel
    Corporate Fascism

    That’s NOT Health Care Reform!!
    The government’s plan is not about YOU. It’s about them making money off human suffering and imposing diseases upon you, attacking your immune system…making money in the stock market and the sale of drugs!

    They would be able to find out a lot about how their “products”/drugs are working in their favor so they can produce more sickness if they only had access to our medical records. Let’s not make it legal and our lives and the quality of our lives over to them. They are not interested in wellness! They are not interested in your well-being. They are interested in money, profits. Come on folks…get this!

    Write your legislators….let them know…NO means NO!

    We want a 3rd choice. Just me and my doctor…period.

    No big corporate health insurance companies. We learned enough off the big corporate Wall Streeters now didn’t we? Are we stupid?

    No big pharma! No legalized professional drug dealers who put things in their drugs to give us other ailments we have not been able to cure for years and years…why? Because they need us to be sick for them to make profits!

    No laws on the books that interfere with the quality of our food.
    No chemtrails in our skies spraying chemicals over us and the land we live on. Where is the EPA?

    The federal government would enlarge by 31 new agencies! I don’t want to pay for any more government paychecks. These folks need to get real jobs and actually work. Government employees are the laziest employees I’ve ever worked around. They could give a rip. 5:00 hits and they run for the door! Slow as molasses too. Shity quality of work. I don’t need that red tape when I’m sick. I worked for DSHS. I know. I’ve seen it firsthand. We pay them to have meetings and plan, but do nothing or as little as they can get by with in a day.

    What we have in government now is not America as you and I know it by our founding documents. These folks are not normal. They are as corrupt as it gets…and they are spreading their corruption around the world.

    P.S. Don’t take the flu jab. It could kill you, make you infertile, crippled…oh big pharma and our government would love that. Eugenics. Genocide. Depopulation. Feels like I’m in a video game some days. Some days I cry because I can see what is ahead of us. They are destroying America.

    This is a stand for liberty, our life and our pusuit of happiness.
    We are all soldiers now. Tell a friend. Tell your family. Tell the people you care about. Start a neighborhood campaign passing out flyers. What they don’t know can hurt you and cause utter chaos. Contageious.

    Just in case this thought crossed your mind…

    Why Do People Think Truthers Are Crazy?

    This ain’t my plan I’m referencing, the depopulation, money making schemes. I’m just reporting on “theirs”.

  • christine

    Take a look and read the evidence. The information found there will make this government-controlled health care plan a shut case for you. You do not want the government controlling your health, your very life. We want privacy, no online medical records so they can pick off who they choose, or control what drug you take so the politicians and insiders can make bookoo bucks in stocks. The government is corrupt enough as it is, we don’t need to hand more avenues over to them! We are not dealing with normal folks here.

    We Now Have A Total Gangster Government (document in the highlighted green box)
    Obama’s quote on youtube…very fitting for this health topic.
    He said it!

    Has anyone ever thought that maybe, it seems we have 2 choices and neither of them work for us, that maybe the corrupt government we have now + big pharma would love to know the end result of their products and know which stocks to buy? that they have conspired together so they gain, we lose either way…sorta like a cats game or a game of chess, checkmate!

    We need a 3rd choice…just me and my doc. No insurance company at all. Anything added to this = more expensive! Doctors wtih reasonabe prices just like any other business to stay in business in a free market. Favor more to alternative health, herbs, wellness care. Live a responsible lifestyle, assume some responsibility.

    …and get rid of the laws that put crap/chemicals in our food, water and in our skies, and where the government takes control over our farms! No Monsanto! GMO foods, nutritionally deficient designed to attack your immune system. There is an attack on our immune system…and it’s a war. Please understand this folks!

    Life. Liberty. Freedom. Pursuit of Happiness.

  • Jesse

    The only one that spends all day here is Sean.
    You might as well be selling water to a drowning man.

    • Sean

      I haven’t been on here in like 5 days and it was a week before that. Who are you? Some pissed off reject? mind your own businesses.

      • longshotlouie

        Hey kid, this is a public forum.

        “Mind you own businesses” hehehe
        I bet that scared him.

        • Sean

          So what? Just because you and this guy read something you don’t like doesn’t mean that you are welcome to express your opinion with pointless put downs. That solves nothing. I don’t know how old you are, but I can tell you are a reject.

        • Jesse

          Is this where he starts crying?

          • Sean

            Please, i’m the only one here with dignity.

          • Jesse
          • Sean

            Funny, I have a whoopi cushion that still gives me chuckles. At least I still have my dignity.

          • Sean

            Well I have school to go to. I actually dedicate my life to something.. Have fun searching for stupid internet sites!

          • Jesse

            Yes, you do need to get back to Communism High.

  • longshotlouie

    MSNBC Pimp: Trust The Government And “Get Your Damn Vaccine”

    The same doctor pimps for the Gardisil Vaccine:

  • longshotlouie

    Another 60,000 seniors have turned in their AARP cards.

  • Sean

    Ron Paul is correct, insurance should be measured by risk; not by profit.

    The people hurting our economy the most are the ones with low risk and low premiums that don’t cover large accidents. If insurance companies didn’t make hundreds of billions or trillions in profit, than we could all afford quality premiums at low costs.

    • Sean

      You really need to learn critical thinking skills.

      I guess you failed hooked on phonics.

      • longshotlouie

        Did have a point?

        • Sean

          “Did have a point?”

          ? Proofread.. Go to school; Learn your English. That isn’t even a complete sentence. I have no idea what you are asking.

      • longshotlouie

        You had a point or not?

        Continue to be clueless.
        Who is causing the problem? People whose premiums are too low?


        • Sean

          Ya, you need hooked on phonics. Thanks for helping me prove my point.

          And ya. Studies show that 60% of bankruptcies were from people with medical debt. The majority being middle class income families with insurance that did not cover their expenses.

          Substituting ignorance with laughter is more funny to me than u.

        • Jesse


        • longshotlouie

          That is funny.

  • longshotlouie
    • Matt

      Looking ahead to healthcare controlled by The State!

      “The superior performance of health services in France and Germany is not simply the result of greater public investment but owes a great deal to the evolution of a hybrid system of funding medical care.”

      • Sean

        If our healthcare is better than socialized countries, it’s because America owns a lot of wealth and there is a great deal of investment into our health system.

        Adding a public plan WILL NOT discourage private investment, but will encourage it from increased patients and productivity.

        Most people don’t understand what this bill is about. This bill will not bring down the cost of health care as much as it will bring down the cost of insurance. The crooked healthcare industry takes in and profits 50% of all healthcare dollars. That is roughly a trillion dollars a year these crooked companies are making from denying us care. Insurance companies make a whole lot more than the oil industry. It’s pretty pathetic, and we need reform.

    • longshotlouie

      Didn’t take long for our resident Nanny-Staters to react to this post. And of course, they never react directly to what was posted. They will probably explain that they do it ‘for the children’. lol

      What time will your flight depart for the EU?

      • Matt

        Sorry, didn’t mean to post something from a government-sponsored system that ACTUALLY WORKS. Seems you have a gigantic blind spot for things that refute the intentions of your posts.

        You like how I even picked an article from the same newspaper, even?

        But it was nice of you to take time out from building that wall around your house, don’t forget to put in a moat and crocodiles too!

        • longshotlouie

          Thanks for providing humor for my lunch break today.
          First, ‘ACTUALLY WORKS’ is opinion.
          Second, the article compares one ‘government-sponsored’ system to another.
          Third, your inability for critical thinking adds a little spice to your already humorous posts.

          Since you have been so generous with your humor it is only fair that I share some with you.


          • Sean

            haha! You obviously don’t understand critical thinking dumbshotlouie.

            Some countries do good with socialized medicine and some don’t. What does that tell u???? Come on, use some critical thinking.

          • Matt

            “Second, the article compares one ‘government-sponsored’ system to another.”

            Well, given France normally is recognized as having the best health care in the world, I would suppose you wouldn’t want to acknowledge their ‘government-sponsored’ healthcare really is the best in the world.

            But lets go ahead and look at the World Health Organization thinks when they rate the ‘government-sponsored’ healthcare systems (we lose and it’s really not even close):

            United States: 37

            France: 1
            United Kingdom: 18
            Germany: 25


            Point is in this environment, just because healthcare is government run, doesn’t mean it is the worst, and just because it is free market makes it the best. Execution matters more, and right now, the execution of a government-sponsored system trumps any *current* free market system in the world.

          • longshotlouie

            My critical thinking tells me that I do not want the government involved in my healthcare. This is also backed up by history.

            Is liberty really that alien to you?
            Keep waving that nanny-state flag.

          • longshotlouie



          • Sean

            so you don’t have enough logic and understanding to see that every country differs with socialized care?

            This means that it is not socialized care itself that makes select countries more or less efficient. There are hundreds if not thousands of factors that makes each country more or less productive in their own way.

            Matt was right. The “free market” isn’t going to execute change. The free market has encouraged insurance companies to cheat their consumers and take away their ability to do anything about it. The free market moves into the direction of profit instead of what’s good for the people or what is sustainable to the economy.

            Just like how the free market wont move us away from oil. Too many people profit, so nothing will change.

          • Sean

            Communism comes naturally in developing countries because they need leverage to grow.

            Socialism comes naturally in countries that are overpopulated because too many people get left behind. When the minority becomes the majority in a democracy, things will change.

          • longshotlouie

            Keep posting that bullshit. No need to counter, as it digs it’s own hole.

          • longshotlouie

            Destined for socialism?

          • Sean

            You need to read more. What was the last book you have ever read?

          • longshotlouie

            If it is not already apparent to our resident socialist swine, you cannot sell from an empty basket.

            Find a socialist site to peddle your tripe.

          • Sean

            You cannot sell from an empty basket? Your brain is the empty basket. Please educate yourself.

          • longshotlouie

            We continue to prove that you have no sense, and then you come back with nothing new.

            Same ol’ robotic insanity.

          • Sean

            aha what? you are a lying freak!!! You have never proved me wrong..

            “Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007″

            “78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services,”

            You are a no good liar(sinner). You belong in hell.

          • longshotlouie


          • Jesse
          • Sean

            seriously? what do you expect to gain from that link? are you seriously that immature?

          • Jesse

            Ya Ya Ya

          • VR
          • Matt

            Yep! Vive Le French Care! It’s amazing what we could learn about execution and efficiency from other countries that have more, and less, socialized medicene:

            “Challenging myths about foreign health-care systems”

            “3. Foreign systems are inefficient, bloated bureaucracies.

            Much less so than here. It may seem to Americans that U.S.-style free enterprise — private-sector, for-profit health insurance — is naturally the most cost-effective way to pay for health care. But in fact, all the other payment systems are more efficient than ours.

            U.S. health insurance companies have the highest administrative costs in the world; they spend roughly 20 cents of every dollar for nonmedical costs, such as paperwork, reviewing claims and marketing. France’s health insurance industry, in contrast, covers everybody and spends about 4 percent on administration. Canada’s universal insurance system, run by government bureaucrats, spends 6 percent on administration. In Taiwan, a leaner version of the Canadian model has administrative costs of 1.5 percent; one year, this figure ballooned to 2 percent, and the opposition parties savaged the government for wasting money.

            The world champion at controlling medical costs is Japan, even though its aging population is a profligate consumer of medical care. On average, the Japanese go to the doctor 15 times a year, three times the U.S. rate. They have twice as many MRI scans and X-rays. Quality is high; life expectancy and recovery rates for major diseases are better than in the United States. And yet Japan spends about $3,400 per person annually on health care; the United States spends more than $7,000.”

            “This fragmentation is another reason that we spend more than anybody else and still leave millions without coverage. All the other developed countries have settled on one model for health-care delivery and finance; we’ve blended them all into a costly, confusing bureaucratic mess.

            Which, in turn, punctures the most persistent myth of all: that America has “the finest health care” in the world. We don’t. In terms of results, almost all advanced countries have better national health statistics than the U.S. does. In terms of finance, we force 700,000 Americans into bankruptcy each year because of medical bills. In France, the number of medical bankruptcies is zero. Britain: zero. Japan: zero. Germany: zero.

            Given our remarkable medical assets — the best-educated doctors and nurses, the most advanced hospitals, world-class research — the U.S. could be, and should be, the best in the world. To get there, we have to be willing to learn some lessons about health-care administration from the other industrialized democracies. “

          • VR

            Still waving your tattered plastic flag?

            Government intervention in medicine led us to this sorry state of affairs, and we have imbeciles that want even more of the same. No different than the dufuss that wants to give the Fed even more power after they’ve screwed up so badly.

            Very obvious that you did not read what you replied to, or at least did not understand what you read.

            It must be mind-numbing to be allergic to liberty.

          • Matt

            Still living life in your little government-free utopia?

            Ahhhh yes, that private enterprise is ALWAYS out for your best interests? Man, you would have made a GREAT child laborer back in the day!

            Until we get rid of Medicare (good freaking luck) the government is, and most likely always will be, involved in health care to some extent. I am not saying private enterprise is all bad, or that government involvement is always good. What I am saying that you need to open your eyes and realize that there is a legitimate debate that you can be involved in, or you can sit back, activate the Ronbot chip and go back to chanting ‘I Love Liberty And Am A Patriot, You Are A Socialist And Hate This Country’.

            The fact that there are MANY hybrid healthcare systems across the world that are, on the whole cheaper and more effective than ours is irrefutable. In addition, many of these systems have government involvement that is *gasp* beneficial. Again, this is irrefutable. What we need to do is decide where, when and how we want the government to be involved, and a good way to start is to see what works in other parts of the world.

            Or you can go back and sit with your imaginary unicorns and set your Ronbot switch back to ‘Biblical Philosophy-Based Utopia’.

          • VR

            You continue to use extremism in your statements that have little or no basis in reality.

            1. Government free? Utopia? Have never proposed either as a goal or a possibility.

            2. Private enterprise should have their own best interest at heart. Their best interest is to get me to part with my money. If I have liberty, I have a choice about whether or not I part with the money. If the private enterprise doesn’t convince me, I keep my money.
            If they offer a quality cost-effective product then I’m glad to transfer my funds to their account.

            When the government inserts itself into the equation, I lose the liberty to decide these things for myself.

            3. Even if you decide Medicare is a good thing should I be forced or coerced into participating?

            4. My eyes, and ears, are wide open and I am involved in the debate … or did you forget that we were debating?

            5. The fact that there are MANY hybrid healthcare systems across the world that are, on the whole, cheaper and more effective than ours is not irrefutable nor a fact. The only ones stating this are those that would want more government intervention in our lives.
            In fact, it has been thoroughly discredited here.

            6. What we need to do is decide that since government cannot run much of anything else effectively, why are we proposing to give them even more opportunity to waste even more of our money for even lower results than we know have. Take a look at a graph of healthcare costs over the last century. What you see is negligible increases over the first 2/3 of that century and an escalation (now exponential) in the final 1/3. This just happens to exactly coincide with the intervention of government into healthcare in the 70’s.

            7. You cannot compare apples to oranges.

            8. Biblical Philosophy and Utopia are opposites.

            But, just so you are not totally disappointed by my reply …..

            ‘I Love Liberty And Am A Patriot, You Are A Socialist And Hate This Country’.

            Have a great day

  • Herewe Goagain
  • VR

    Even in the midst of a Republican resurgence, Mr. Clinton would go on from the defeat of government run healthcare to become the first Democrat since FDR to be elected to two terms.
    By contrast, Mr. Obama’s handling of the health-care debate—making villains out of cable television and insurance companies, questioning the motives of those who disagree, and imposing artificial deadlines,suggests a rigidity typically associated with a lack of executive experience and responsibility.

  • christine

    I bought this .com name some years ago. Little did I know that I would know what I do today and how fitting it would be for the tyranny we are now facing. It truly is a quest to live.

    Share this link.

  • longshotlouie

    Copy of leaflet handed out to those that attended the international flu summit last week:

    • christine

      Thank you for posting. This is not a big story in the media, but IT SHOULD BE. Rather there is a blackout on the topic. This is a critical time period, especially as this contaminated flu campaign ramps up when the kids go back to school. We haven’t much time to infom others. We are foot soldiers in our own country.

      Go to
      Join the forum and receive info from around the world.

      This morning I received a post via email from the UK, a friend of the poster is a mortician and is receiving TOP SECRET emails, told to destroy after reading.

      We are truly looking at and facing tyranny head on.

  • VR

    You have been victorious in Stage 1 – The Battle Against The NWO.

    Good Luck with Stage 2

  • longshotlouie

    They’re Yelling in the state of Washington !!

    ” …. against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.”

    • christine

      WooWhoo! I love it! All fired up. Callin’ it as he sees it straight away ‘n not backing down. I wish I’d seen it live, Washintonian that I am. I caught that too…foreign and domestic Yeah, buddy. Push back time.

      Can’t wait to see how the discussions go when they all get back to Washington D.C.

  • mike

    Can’t fix health care if economy broken!

    I strongly believe we need a federal reserve audit. The recent stock market action suggests to me the federal reserve is intervening in a free and open market. I believe the biggest beneficiary of this TRILLION DOLLAR stock market move in a couple of weeks was Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs sells derivatives in our equity markets its apparent that Goldman Sachs Has Total Control Over our stock market using the unlimited capital available from the federal reserve. I believe Goldman Sachs doesn’t have the best interest of our markets. They are misusing the federal reserve to manipulate the stock market and making huge 100 BILLION DOLLAR profits THIS IS ILLEGAL people expect our government to obey the laws just like citizen. Also this manipulation without regards for cost continues to put our government and the people more and more in debt



    • Matt

      Mike has determined “Goldman Sachs sells derivatives in our equity markets (and) its apparent that Goldman Sachs Has Total Control Over our stock market.” I have some questions about this conspiracy that I wonder if you could address?

      One: Market indices are NOT comprised of derivatives, so how would derivatives cause a stock market move?
      Two: Equity markets are COMPLETELY separate of derivative markets (e.g. by definition you CANNOT ’sell a derivative into an equity market’)
      Three: On the false premise that derivatives even COULD affect indices, how did Goldman Sachs take unlimited capital, SELL derivatives, and make markets go up?!?! When you SELL markets go down!
      Four: When you SELL derivatives naked you keep the premium. Why would they need capital if they SOLD something, you would need unlimited capital to BUY something, right? If they used the capital to buy and then sold derivatives against the equity you would only keep the time value, your profit would be capped, and you would still be at the mercy of the sell side with a depreciating asset.