20 responses to “Ron Paul on the Gold Standard and Competing Currencies”

  1. Citizen

    Citizens of America

    Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.
    While the People for MPE mean well and make their economic system sound like the ultimate solution, its a solution that Depends on BIG GOVERNMENT.

    We need Private Wealth in the form of gold and silver currency in Standard Weights and Purity are the only “money” that can’t be debased or diluted.

    Beware!

    »crosslinked«

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    1. Jake

      The point here is that “money” is a medium, or means of exchange that takes the place of the items being exchanged. It is not the things themselves. When items of value are exchanged that is called “barter”. Money is used in place of barter.

      The most important thing about money is its universal acceptance among the people belonging to that economy, state or nation that is issuing or guaranteeing the money. It is the taxing authority, or the authority of government, that properly legitimizes what we call “money’. Currency is circulating money that should be issued in sufficient quantity to support a prosperous and healthy economy, commerce, trade, goods and services. Balance is essential. Both too much and too little currency are damaging to an economy and its people.

      More accurately, it was the bankers notes supposedly “backed” by gold, or gold receipts, that became the circulating paper currency because of its convenience, and ease of use. They key here is that the “paper” money was issued by private bankers, rather than by the government authorities or treasuries. This, more than anything else, led to the distrust of “paper money” improperly called “fiat money”. Perhaps no other word is so commonly misused today as “fiat”, as it is applied to money. Fiat does NOT mean paper money!
      The word “fiat” simply means “by decree of law”. It is money because the governing authority declares that it is “legal” money, and will be accepted by all government agencies and taxing authorities as “legal tender”. This universal acceptance is what makes money money, or currency. Gold or silver coins are, or were, while they were legally circulated, “fiat” money. The “fiat” part simply means the coin was stamped or minted with a specific face value, and is not valued at its market price at any given moment (even assuming that can be practically ascertained at the time of transaction, which is an impossibility).
      To sum up, wealth and money are two separate things. Wealth has value as a good or service rendered. Money has value mainly in its exchange for wealth. Commodity money such as gold and silver are controlled by a small consortium of people who have a very special interest in propagating the lie that money is gold and vice versa. Of all the commodities that could be used as money, gold (and all the rare and precious metals and gems) are the most subject to the market manipulation of the world’s major holders (including the mining companies). The ugly game is called Monopoly. It doesn’t matter if it’s a private or a state monopoly. They are all destructive of true freedom and liberty.

      In a Nutshell
      It all comes back to the central issue of “who has the power over money creation?”!! Either it is The People, by and through their sovereignty via their legitimate governments under the principles set out by Mathematically Perfected Economy, or it will be as it is now. The current system is money creation by the illegitimately chartered Private System of Central Banks and their network of banks who on most cases are their shareholders via the fractional reserve system.

      Private money creation is the usurpation of the rightful sovereignty of the people. The sooner the people learn that, the sooner we can return to prosperity.

      All the solutions are really very simple, once one breaks through the corrupt current paradigm. That includes the instantaneous repayment of the fraudulent National Debt.

      The answer is to shift the ownership of the Central Banks to the People, and make money-creation truly *sovereign*, and in control of the People – as it should have been all along. MPE is just that!

      The People must awaken and see the nearly invisible chains of debt at interest-slavery that now bind them.

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    2. Jake

      The point here is that “money” is a medium, or means of exchange that takes the place of the items being exchanged. It is not the things themselves. When items of value are exchanged that is called “barter”. Money is used in place of barter.

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    3. Jake

      The ugly game is called Monopoly. It doesn’t matter if it’s a private or a state monopoly. They are all destructive of true freedom and liberty.

      In a Nutshell

      It all comes back to the central issue of “who has the power over money creation?”!! Either it is The People, by and through their sovereignty via their legitimate governments under the principles set out by Mathematically Perfected Economy, or it will be as it is now. The current system is money creation by the illegitimately chartered Private System of Central Banks and their network of banks who on most cases are their shareholders via the fractional reserve system.

      Private money creation is the usurpation of the rightful sovereignty of the people. The sooner the people learn that, the sooner we can return to prosperity.

      All the solutions are really very simple, once one breaks through the corrupt current paradigm. That includes the instantaneous repayment of the fraudulent National Debt.

      The answer is to shift the ownership of the Central Banks to the People, and make money-creation truly *sovereign*, and in control of the People – as it should have been all along.
      The People must awaken and see the nearly invisible chains of debt at interest-slavery that now bind them.

      Reclaim the sovereignty of money creation FREE OF INTEREST and managed by the only rightful principles as set out by MPE.

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    4. Jake

      The ugly game is called Monopoly. It doesn’t matter if it’s a private or a state monopoly. They are all destructive of true freedom and liberty.

      In a Nutshell

      It all comes back to the central issue of “who has the power over money creation?”!! Either it is The People, by and through their sovereignty via their legitimate governments under the principles set out by MPE, or it will be as it is now. The current system is money creation by the illegitimately chartered Private System of Central Banks and their network of banks who on most cases are their shareholders via the fractional reserve system.

      Private money creation is the usurpation of the rightful sovereignty of the people. The sooner the people learn that, the sooner we can return to prosperity.

      All the solutions are really very simple, once one breaks through the corrupt current paradigm. That includes the instantaneous repayment of the fraudulent National Debt.

      The answer is to shift the ownership of the Central Banks to the People, and make money-creation truly *sovereign*, and in control of the People – as it should have been all along.
      The People must awaken and see the nearly invisible chains of debt at interest-slavery that now bind them.

      Reclaim the sovereignty of money creation FREE OF INTEREST and managed by the only rightful principles as set out by MPE.

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    5. Jake

      Gold or silver coins are, or were, while they were legally circulated, “fiat” money. The “fiat” part simply means the coin was stamped or minted with a specific face value, and is not valued at its market price at any given moment (even assuming that can be practically ascertained at the time of transaction, which is an impossibility).

      To sum up, wealth and money are two separate things. Wealth has value as a good or service rendered. Money has value mainly in its exchange for wealth. Commodity money such as gold and silver are controlled by a small consortium of people who have a very special interest in propagating the lie that money is gold and vice versa. Of all the commodities that could be used as money, gold (and all the rare and precious metals and gems) are the most subject to the market manipulation of the world’s major holders (including the mining companies).

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    6. Jake

      The word “fiat” simply means “by decree of law”. It is money because the governing authority declares that it is “legal” money, and will be accepted by all government agencies and taxing authorities as “legal tender”. This universal acceptance is what makes money money, or currency.

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    7. Jake

      MPE does NOT depend on big government. The opposite is true. MPE depends on an educated and involved people. The same people that are finding out now that they have to take back control and that nobody else (especially not government) can be trusted.

      Beware of Citizen Rothchild!!!!!!!!!!

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  2. Jack

    Great discussions going on right now!

    Because most debates seem to come down to one an one important question only; What is Money, What should Money be?

    Please find below our explanation/definition of what money should be.

    WHAT IS MONEY, WHAT SHOULD MONEY BE ?

    Most people can’t give you a good definition of money — a definition which holds; and a definition which serves them.

    Yet if we ask the questions which develop a fully accountable answer, we readily arrive at a fact that the only definition of money which can inflict no offense whatever, is a currency which comprises immutable tokens of value.

    In fact likewise, most people do intuit that money IS a relatively immutable token of value — not understanding how the exceptions are engendered, or how the exceptions offend them. In other words, they recognize that immutability is a vital object; they likewise recognize that immutability of a promissory note is even vital to its facts of contractual obligation; but they do not recognize that one and one only monetary prescription makes good on this indispensable object of immutable tokenization of value.

    Both to tokenize value and to immutably tokenize value nonetheless are only TO REPRESENT not only however many different products, but necessarily, to likewise represent the volumes of such products, or we fail to keep the ostensible 1:1 relationship between circulatory volume and remaining value of all products, which is necessary to immutable value.

    The only way to immutably tokenize value therefore is if the units of value of the circulation are immutably linked to the remaining value of ALL represented property (not just to one or several of MANY products); and thus likewise, the remaining volume of units of circulation must at all times equal the volume of remaining value of the ALL the products which the circulation is intended to represent, or we fail to keep these principles. In fact then, the only way to maintain these equal volumes is to pay the value of the represented property out of circulation as the value of the property is perceived to be consumed, or to depreciate. The only way you can do this of course, is if we pay monetary obligations comprised only of principal, at the rate of depreciation or consumption of all represented properties.

    Volume of circulation must likewise equal remaining volume of all represented property. Franklin observed in his “Modest Inquiry into the Nature and Necessity of a Paper Currency,” that the colonists prospered substantially more when they supplemented their circulation of precious metal with paper currency (certain implementations of which were debatably subject to interest). He postulated that some prospective extent of such supplementation might be excessive; and that it might have negative consequences. But nonetheless he noted (evidently then because they never reached such a limit) that the additional circulation of paper currency sustained substantially greater prosperity.

    Why?

    They must therefore have suffered previously from an effectively deflated circulation. But simple questions thus resolve Franklin’s curiosity:

    If the circulation is to represent (tokenize) value, then if the circulation were ever to exceed the volume of the remaining value of all property, then someone would have received circulation for nothing. Such an excessive, “inflated” circulation however would be impossible, if in fact all promissory notes (of principal only) are legitimately collateralized.

    Likewise however, if the effective volume of circulation is ever less than the volume of represented property, then it is impossible to trade all property all at once; and someone will not have received and persisted in just reward for their production.

    So, an “effective,” just circulation must at all times equal the remaining value of ALL production (“products”).

    A further malady exists in the present disposition of currencies subject to interest. That is, ever more of a circulation is perpetually dedicated to sustaining ever greater sums of artificial debt, leaving ever less of the same circulation to represent/tokenize the value of property. Thus interest makes abiding by our necessary principles of immutable tokenization impossible.

    1. The only circulation which sustains all these necessary objects therefore is a volume of circulation which is at all times equal to the remaining value of all property.

    2. The only way to maintain such a circulation is to pay principal out of circulation at the rate of consumption or depreciation of related property.

    3. Thus as a circulation comprised of promissory notes only represents FINANCED property (subject to promissory obligations), the only way to sustain a circulation which necessarily represents the remaining value of all property is to further accommodate immediate conversion of equity into currency.

    These in fact then are the principles of mathematically perfected economy™; and this is a vital path of the logic of overall solution.

    But our question asks if money is a product? Essentially, this is to ask if it MUST be a product in order to serve these vital purposes of a just currency, which of course must eradicate all potential for systemic offense.

    We can see however, even on an abstract level, that the concept of tokenization can only go awry if the need for tokenization must account for all products, and the concept of tokenization requires A product or a few productS to do so. Yet even according to the concept of tokenization itself, the token is distinct from the product itself — unless to be an immutable token of value, “money” must actually exist in the physical form or instances of some such “product.” In other words, if just/”honest” money IS a product; how then and why would argue this restrictive concept of A product or products? How can either case serve the objects of volume equaling the volume of ALL products, if money “must” be A product or products; and if the volume of THE product or products must yet equate to the volume of ALL products?

    In fact, given the aforesaid observations, we readily recognize that nothing but ALL products CAN so represent all products; and the only reason folks like the Austrian “economists” are trying to insist on A product (or products) for their obfuscated claim to tokenization, is they refuse to acknowledge the very principles they pretend their ONE or few products somehow uphold — and yet are proven not to uphold.

    As Franklin likewise observes, never did their precious metal monetary standards result in actual consistent values of money; and the reasons are evident in these principles: There is no perpetual 1:1:1 relationship between remaining circulation: remaining value of represented property: and obligation, because the Austrians refuse to recognize that the only mathematic course to this perpetual relationship is to pay off promissory notes comprising obligations of principal only, at the rate of consumption or depreciation of the related property — with the payments thus retiring the circulation as the value of the property itself is consumed. In fact, only promissory notes of principal, paid at this obligatory schedule of payment CAN accomplish these purposes; and do so even without regulation.

    Thus we readily understand the problems of gold, which itself in fact perpetually violates our necessarily perpetual 1:1:1 relationship; and which further violates these principles when it coexists with interest, which perpetually disposes ever more of the circulation to servicing a perpetually multiplying sum of artificial debt — leaving ever less of the same circulation to sustain commerce.

    Thus the answer to the original question is that money CANNOT BE A product, if it is to be an immutable token of value, because A product, in which the resultant circulation would ostensibly be redeemable, ITSELF cannot represent All products! Thus it cannot provide a perpetual 1:1 relationship between volume of circulation and redeemability which purportedly eliminates subversion of value.

    Effectively, the Austrians (and others) claim virtues of gold which do not exist, while the principles they exalt instead would endorse only mathematically perfected economy™, because the only currency which CAN accomplish this purpose of making the circulation effectively not A product, but in fact at all times ACTUALLY REDEEMABLE in ALL products, is mathematically perfected economy™ — which alone therefore, immutably tokenizes all products represented by the circulation, and in such a way that the circulation is always redeemable in the very scope and volume of products it was from the beginning, intended to represent.

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  3. Jack

    As I have described, the fatal fault of the imposed monetary system is interest; and all further faults merely result from further failure to solve inflation and deflation. The Austrians, and Mr. Paul in particular, not only advocate interest; they advocate ELEVATED RATES OF INTEREST.

    Effectively, what they want is to remove the embossed letters which now say “Federal Reserve Bank,” and replace them with “Ron Paul’s ‘COMPETING’ Bank(s)” — a principle which he refuses to debate, further define, or justify. Of course, any ostensible “competition” would ostensibly, on the contrary, drive interest rates down. But Mr. Paul tells us that we wouldn’t have borrowed ourselves into this debt mess if higher rates of interest had discouraged excessive/reckless borrowing.

    Mr. Paul has never done the math: he tells you that all of you are going to benefit somehow therefore — oh and we so willingly believe this preposterous notion, don’t we? — he tells us we will benefit paying perhaps 17% interest on our homes than 5%. Sounds really like a good idea, doesn’t it? Especially since the rate of interest is the rate of multiplication of artificial indebtedness — higher rates of which instead necessitate greater rates of borrowing to maintain a vital circulation.

    Unfortunately, most people who exalt Austrian “economics” hardly know the first thing about it. They reject math — most of which is little more than counting — as if you could understand otherwise; and they could have possibly determined solution otherwise. In no legitimate discipline or walk of life does such reckless abandonment of principle hold.

    But Mr. Hayek, God of the Austrians tells us why they advocate interest and the current banking model — which are our very problem. See Hayek’s article at Mises org: “A Free Market Monetary System,” I think it’s called. Anyway, he thus justifies interest, that it makes banking “an extremely profitable business.”

    That’s right. There IS no justification, just an outright confession of the motive.

    We stand for real solution.

    perfecteconomy dot com
    endtheecb dot ning dot com

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    1. Citizen

      Jack,

      You said: “I think it’s called. Anyway, he thus justifies interest, that it makes banking “an extremely profitable business.”

      I’ve visited the Mathematically Perfect Economy.com only to skim the general idea.
      As an Austrian School novice, I’m not sure you or “MPE” have the answer that you allude exists.

      Is there a somewhere in the world where this MPE system is being tried??
      As for”interest” making banking “extremely profitable”, I’d agree when we are talking a Fractional Reserve Banking (FRB) system manipulated for the Central Government’s diabolical schemes. FRB allows Banks to lend 10x the amount of currency the have thus when the only charge 6% but collect it 10 fold, they are actually receiving 60% return, not just the stated 6% they claim.

      You are right, we don’t need a Gold Standard banking system, we need a 100% demand deposit banking system. As for interest rates, I would hesitate to claim that any banking system would function absent a rate of return. Out of mere practical application, banks have to receive some remuneration to function and simply service fees are not the answer.

      The FED is an out of control beast, what alternatives to this would you propose?
      Let me guess MPE

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      1. Jack

        We do NOT need banks!!!!!!!!

        That’s right. What people need to understand is that under the present obfuscation of currency, we are only borrowing our own promissory notes into existence. We don’t need banks to issue our currency; nor should we allow them to, for any rate of interest which must be re-borrowed to maintain a vital circulation ultimately terminates the pretended economy.

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        1. Citizen

          Yo Jack,

          We’re mincing semantics,
          Banks are a natural formation of capital, savings of a community concentrated to form a bank, credit union or any trust where citizens place their EXCESS REVENUES from their thrift.

          Central Government run printing presses are not “BANKS” they are simply credit/debt inflation machines.

          Private Banks are citizen sponsored enterprises and are a legitimate means for capital formation. Where they go horribly wrong is in permitting FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING.

          FRB has become the Governments favorite tool of Grand Theft…
          Why raise taxes when you can simply print what you need.

          MPE is no different than the FED and FRB.
          MPE, as you’ve defined it,
          Is nothing more than an arbitrary and heavy handed system of static valuation of property. Forced valuations by some altruistic central authority, free from corrupting influences…. NOT!

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        2. David

          Hi Jack;

          Well you’ve defined the single and only factor which mus guarantee an economy to be unsustainable and that is banking. Pretty much any economy with any form of currency can be sustainable provided that its means of exchange cannot be removed from circulation by banks and interest. We can even tolerate interest, provided that it is collected on a public level and injected directly back into circulation to fund public services in order to continue to fuel production, in which case only the department of the treasury, or state and local governments as well can have the ability to loan the currency at interest.

          In terms of citizens post, yes banking is a natural formation/occurrence where it is tolerated, so is theft. There is no more reason to tolerate private interests consuming our means of trade in order to buy up ownership and control of our country, economy and its population than there is to tolerate a thief breaking into our homes. I’ll simply pull out my gun and shoot him and this is what needs to be done with the banks, and the single and only thing which will prevent our inevitable demise as well.

          Simply ending central banks or fractional reserve banking solves nothing, especially under the Austrian Economics theory as the Rothschild’s, who already own the vast majority of the worlds hare currencies, can simply inject an equal amount of gold or silver as we issue as currency and within 10 years a 10 percent interest have consumed our entire supply of currency as well, so they are proposing an even more terminal economic system than exists today. To be honest i simply can’t imagine anything more naive and foolish than to believe in what they propose.

          In terms of MPE, i do in some instances agree with Citizen in that there are a few clauses in it which are overly regulatory, and i think that the solution can simply be as simple as establishing and managing a public currency which we can keep in circulation to pay for the full value of the trade the people are capable of generating, in any way, shape or form. As long as the currency can do that the problem is solved. It doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to work. MPE is dead on in the causes and effects and all of the basic essentials which both make an economy terminal, i.e. banking and interest, and also in terms of the essentials toward establishing not only a sustainable economy but one capable of expanding along with the populations ability to increase their useful production as well. It doesn’t even take someone of Mike’s knowledge to figure this out, you can do it with grade 3 level arithmetic, banks and private interest simply cant work.

          What the “libertarians” are also not understanding is that in the absence of banks to establish government in their service, government must by default revert to the service of the population hence government issue and management of such a public currency will be in the hands of the people as well and can serve to protect freedom and ensure prosperity as opposed to being a source to power which needs to consume that prosperity to establish ever more of it as it is today, which has created every threat which has ever existed to our freedoms in the history of America. It was so in Franklin’s time, and Benjamin Franklin is the one man in history whom to me would best define the entire concept of a true “Libertarian”. Not the Austrian Economists. My view of them is that they fall more in line with Alexander Hamilton, who betrayed our revolution to the Bank of England, and in exactly the same manner and with the same currencies as they are proposing today. We have only two choices in terms of managing our currency or economy, private banks who will do it at interest and at the expense of our prosperity, or an elected United States Government, by the people, of the people and for the people, doing it for their benefit. We just have to as a population initiate the force it will take to seize control of our own government and political process back from the banks so that it can function for our benefit instead. There are no other options and the two options don’t mix as one will always consume the other.

          WE DO NOT NEED BANKS, WE CANNOT SURVIVE BANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Anyway, this is Franklin’s definition of a working economy which he himself helped to establish for a short time:

          “That is simple. In the colonies we issue our own money. It is called ‘Colonial Script’. We issue it in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers…In this manner, creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to no one.”

          I guess the Austrians would call him a statist, and authoritarian and a Nazi too if he were alive today. Seems like were in good company doesn’t it Jack ?

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  4. jack

    While the gold standard can neither save us from further multiplication of debt or rectify the other issues before us, simply re-invoking the gold standard would pave the way for immediate loss of “our” monetary gold, for already twenty years ago, the perpetual process of multiplying debt had plunged us from the greatest creditor nation in the world to its lowliest debtor nation. For the very purposes of the lie, “our” currency is now held in immense quantities across the world; and thus even if “we” held gold for money instead of paper, our inevitable collapse under perpetually multiplying indebtedness therefore will mean giving up the last of our former gold, rather than the last of a mere paper, as we tolerate the imposition of a Second Great Depression. I am now even more worried about our financial future, unless we advocate Mathematically Perfected Economy (MPE) in which we mathematically have proven the above, but are also offering a real immediate solution to the current terminal system.
    For more information you can visit the following links:

    http://www.perfecteconomy.com

    http://endtheecb.ning.com/video/mathematically-perfected

    Kind regards,
    Jack

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    1. Citizen

      Hello Jack,

      The conversion from a Fiat currency to a Bullion backed currency would entail a MAJOR “Devaluation” of the Fed Notes subject to ACTUAL GOLD we still hold.

      The M2 Fed Reserve Notes to Treasury Gold ratio is estimated to be 157,134 : 1
      It sounds absurd to think that our Government has printed so much paper that it now has equated your average American home to 1 ounce of gold.

      Clearly the devaluation conversion could not take that sort of a hit, your right the entire world exchange system would collapse and chaos would follow.

      HOWEVER… by allowing American’s to hold and USE bullion coins as Legal Tender (competing currency), we could return to Sound Money and then slowly and orderly transition away from Fiat FED Notes system. Gresham’s Law, bad money chases out good money, when people are forced to use only the bad money, however when a “choice” exists people will hold the good money as their store of value and dispose of the paper.

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      1. Jack

        Hi Citizen,

        It’s impossible to solve inflation OR deflation with a gold standard. If represented wealth is less than the representative reserves, still, no precept prevents you from suffering a circulation exceeding the reserves, particularly if you further subject debts to interest. But this objection is largely only hypothetical, because generally, on the contrary, the real danger is suffering a restricted circulation (deflation). As industry and production tend to grow, you are deprived of the further circulation which you need to sustain that industry, if and when it exceeds the monetary reserves. So the more real (practical) fault is it cannot solve deflation. But even worse, is its further fault, that if it coexists with interest, it can’t solve terminal failure, or perpetual subversion of the *disposition* of the currency (Mike´s original term), that as interest inherently and irreversibly dedicates ever more of every unit of the circulation to servicing falsified, artificial debts, versus sustaining the desired industry. It means nothing to pretend solution then, unless you have answered for all three faults: inflation, deflation, and disposition.

        Mathematically perfected economy is a currency not subject to interest, comprising a debt financing all permissible enterprise, paid by each and every debtor exactly as they consume of the associated production.

        There is no inflation or deflation 2, as the currency in circulation is always equal to the current value of existent production across however much of the economy is supported by a circulation.

        Neither the value of money or assets are altered by changing proportions of circulation to indebted assets or services. The value of the money is always consistent in quantity — both in earnability and spendability — with the remaining value of the indebted assets which exist, for which it was issued, and which constitute its immutable value.

        The remaining circulation is always sufficient to pay off debt. Further production therefore is not impeded by a deficient circulation, deplenished by paying more than what circulation was introduced 4 to finance the production.

        Debt is not multiplied beyond the circulation or remaining value of indebted assets. To pay debt obligations exceeding the remaining value of indebted assets sets off a perpetual cycle of re-borrowing and multiplication of debt. Merely to maintain a circulation, we must borrow again so much as we have paid beyond the original circulation which was equal only to the unmultiplied debt.

        Neither production or consumption are impeded by imposition of extrinsic cost. In every transaction, production is traded for equal production 3.
        So long as we make such a circulation available to production, no impediment, limitation, or inequity whatever are imposed upon production or commerce. Production and commerce are fully expedited only by a completely liquid and effectual currency.

        Mathematically perfected economy is no more than a singular prescription, dissolving unjust intervention.

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  5. Juggergrimrod

    Check out
    http://www.monetary.org
    “The lost science of money”
    Maybe the definitive book on “money”

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  6. Nate Y

    I know the date says 10/04 but I’m pretty sure this is an old vid. But who cares?!

    That was awesome. The easiest way to abolish the Fed is simply to remove legal tender laws and let private currencies compete. Such action even strikes me as being relatively painless.

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  7. GB

    Outstanding. Required video for business students.

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