Last night on Larry King, Ron Paul called for an investigation into the causes of terrorism. He pointed out that America fell into Osama Bin Laden’s terrible trap: We are now involved in destructive wars that bankrupt our nation and drive hateful recruits straight into Al Qaeda’s hands. Unfortunately, the discussion went downhill from there due to Ben Stein’s ludicrous attempt to dismiss Ron Paul’s argument as “anti-semitic”.
Show: Larry King Live
Channel: CNN
Date: 12/28/2009
Transcript
Larry King: Okay, we meet Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, she’s a member of the Homeland Security committee, and she chairs the panel sub-committee on transportation security and infrastructure protection. Representative Ron Paul is a Republican of Texas, member of the International Relations Committee. He was a flight surgeon in the air force, and an OB/GYN in civilian life. And Ben Stein, the economist attorney, former presidential speech writer, columnist with Fortune Magazine.
Representative Lee, were you satisfied with the president’s statement today and do you think we’re now getting on top of things?
Sheila Jackson Lee: Absolutely, Larry. I believe the president has always been on top of this issue of securing the homeland. It is not a partisan issue, it is not a Democratic issue or Republican issue. And he stood today and indicated that we now are moving forward on some of the items that we’ve already done, improving our security and our screening, looking to ensure that we are going after the terrorists who want to come after us, finding Al-Qaida wherever it is, and yes, doing an inventory and investigation on what happened and why. But I believe that there are several issues that we have to address. And one of them is the serious stovepiping of intelligence. Communicating information that could have prevented this individual from boarding this plane; flight 253.
Larry King: Congressman Paul, is politics outside the door here?
Ron Paul: Well, I don’t know, that depends on your definition of politics. If you disagree, I guess it’s political. If you agree then it isn’t. But no, the answer to your first question, you know, this statement wasn’t all that satisfactory to me, sort of putting the pressure on the people, if we were just more vigilant. It seems to me that the people had the responsibility in that embassy and should have been more vigilant. You know, we’re right now spending 75 billion dollars for intelligence gathering, and look at what we have. We had FBI agents telling us about the pilots that were flying but not landing an airplane before 9/11, and here we have this incident. So I would say we come up way short and I think there’s a fundamental flaw in the system, and that is government’s incapable of doing it. Everything else in this country, all the businesses and factories and hotels and everything, they’re protected by the owners and by private security. But all of a sudden if you own an airplane, you have to depend on the bureaucracy. And 75 billion dollars worth of intelligence gathering, and all of a sudden we’re all going to be safe as long as we’re alert and tell everybody what’s going on.
Larry King: Governments are responsible to do that Ben, aren’t they? We can’t have private industry run our security.
Ben Stein: Governments are totally responsible. I was stunned at what President Obama said today. I mean, it was as if somebody said after Pearl Harbor: “Okay, we all got to be vigilant against the Japanese and the Germans”. It’s the government’s job to protect us, we’re paying a fortune in tax and debt to have them do it. They’re not taken it seriously, they’re being like bureaucrats and really just doing 9 to 5 work and not getting the job done. Look, this is a war, we’ve said it over and over again. It’s not a war against Islam, but it is a war against terrorists. We know a lot about them, it’s not getting shared. I am not a stock holder in IBM, but I think you could give this job to IBM, in about a month they can come up with a system where there will be little dots going off on a million different people’s desks in the bureaucracy if somebody like this Nigerian guy was trying to get on an airplane. Let’s get the work out like we mean it.
Larry King: Congresswoman Lee, you want to respond to that?
Sheila Jackson Lee: I do, I do frankly. We are getting to work, we have been getting to work, but there are problems. And frankly this needs to be addressed by Congress and by the administration. The stovepiping that I was suggesting was very obvious for this individual who had family members who notified our embassy in Nigeria, and that information was not transmitted anywhere else until Homeland Security. It’s obvious that Homeland Security should be the focal point and the key in terms of acting on any threat to the homeland. That means that the information that we received, that was a viable behavioral assessment that you could have made on this individual. He went to Yemen, he has become radicalized. His family has called, and therefore there was a basis of acting. We don’t need to talk about 75 billion, and by the way, my friends on the other side of the aisle have voted against aviation security funding and also explosives funding. But what the president can do at it, Larry, what I would suggest that he do is to make a recess appointment to the individual that is being held up as the TSA administrator by a Republican senator. Leadership is important is in this aspect, so I believe the government is responsible, I take responsibility and we have a way to solve the problem.
Larry King: I got to take a break, hold on. Ben, hold it. I got to take a break and we’ll have Ben and Ron respond right after this.
Ron Paul, you want to respond first to the Congresswoman?
Ron Paul: Yes, I do. One thing that is missing here is never asking the question what is the motive. With Abdulmutallab he said why he did it. He said it was because we bombed Yemen 2 weeks ago; that was his motive. Osama Bin Laden said that he has a plan for America. First, he wants to bog us down in the Middle East in a no-win war, he wants to bankrupt this country, demoralize us, as well as have us do things that motivate people to join his radical movement. It seems like we have fallen into his trap. You know, why is it off base? Today when the gentleman indicated that he did it because of the bombing, you know what the administration said? They just dismissed it; it can’t possibly be so. If you dismiss motivations for why they hate us, we can never resolve this. There is hate on both sides, but you have to ask the question, “Why do they hate?” and they usually come up with the reason and we’re foolish not to take that into consideration.
Larry King: Ben?
Ben Stein: Well, I never heard anything quite like that in my whole life. What he’s saying basically is we are doing something wrong by defending ourselves. Look at these terrorists trying to kill the government in Yemen. We got to help defend them, they’re our friends. We can’t just let Al-Qaida run wild…
Ron Paul: Why, why?
Ben Stein: Why should we stop them? Because they’re terrorists and murderers and they’re very anti-American.
Congressman: Why are they terrorists?
Ben Stein: They’re terrorist and murderers because they’re psychos.
Ron Paul: They’re terrorists because we’re occupiers.
Ben Stein: No, we’re not occupiers. That’s the same anti-semitic argument we’ve heard over and over, no.
Ron Paul: Now that is a vicious attack.
Larry King: One at time guys.
Ben Stein: That is not a vicious attack.
Larry King: Alright, let’s go back to Sheila.
Sheila Jackson Lee: I think I can referee between the congressman and Ben.
Larry King: Two Republicans going at it with a Democratic liberal in the middle. This is fascinating.
Sheila Jackson Lee: I can referee between the two of them. Let me referee, please.
Larry King: Alright, Sheila say something.
Sheila Jackson Lee: Yes, let me referee, please. That is interesting.
Larry King: Both have good points, right?
Sheila Jackson Lee: Well, they have good points, but let me clarify and try to say that Congressman Paul has a point on our positions that we took in Iraq, which obviously created a very terrible atmosphere and we all asked the question what were the results. And, of course, Afghanistan is still a question, but we must be reminded that the terrorists acted under President Bush’s clock, and so this can’t be an issue of the president’s inactivity, per se, and lack of commitment to the homeland. But we have to do better. And I believe we need to have behavioral assessment. There was no reason for this individual to have a visa that still was in place until 2010, for them to be able to travel. There was no reason for him not to be detected because of his behavior. Behavioral assessment; we need to make the homeland security of the nation focus. Secretary of Homeland Security should be the point person, and that person should establish a roadmap that then allows us to fund and to put resources accordingly. And finally, the president should put in place the TSA administrator by a way of recess appointment letter.
Larry King: Debt, taxes, and these three are going to be back tomorrow.
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I would believe this was an Al-Qaeda operation if there actually was an organization called Al-Qaeda and before you lambast me, stop and think, everything you know and are told about this organization comes from the mouths of western governments and is an organization headed by a man, Osama, who was once a top ex-CIA man. Very little information outside of government and intelligence information is known about Al-Qaeda, beyond the words of the western governments it might as well not exist.
If you had said the Taliban I might have believed you, but this wasn’t the Taliban, the attack is attributed to Al-Qaeda. You might as well write, “The US government believed the attack is Al-Qaeda”, which pretty much reduces all credibility right there.
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REMEMBER LOCKERBIE? PAN AM 747
FLIGHT 103, BOMBED,BY LIBYA,WITH
PACKAGE IN THE HOLD….
LIBYA WAS NOT INVADED, KHADDAFY
IS STILL THE LEADER,*now our friend?
He paid a fine,BUT Scotland let the
LIBYAN AGENT GO FREE FROM PRISON THIS YEAR !!
OVER 300 PEOPLE DIED,KHADDAFY STILL LIVES !!
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There was some believing that Lockerbie may have been a flase flag, but even if it isn’t, it highlights succinctly what western governments do. If it’s in their interests to support dictators (and Gaddhafi is a secular tyrant like Saddam was, who doesn’t really care for his people), then they’ll support them.
The UK is bridging ties to the Libyans for economic gain. If you research a little deeper, Google it, Gaddhafi’s son is friends with Nathaniel Rothschild, of the Rothschild dynasty, they studied at the same British school. Seem familair now? Underhand deals being made?
Nathaniel Rothschild has extensive connections throughout the UK elite system. He’s friends with the British politician, spin master and power broker of the British Labour party Peter Mandelson.
Look for the connections people, if you’re ever in doubt follow the money trail.
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I was one of the many people who was initially fooled by the Obama campaign. The power brokers behind the military industrial complex are masters of deception. Their mainstream media messages are designed to both convince and confuse. BUT MORE AND MORE PEOPLE are WAKING UP to the truth of Ron Paul’s message. Anyone who reads the superb book “End the Fed” will understand what a mess we’re in. BUT it’s possible to get out of this if more people just tell others and continue to spread the word (EVERY DAY – your actions matter) about the “New World Order” plans (look up on youtube). They have the money and the power, but WE have the numbers and, more importantly, the truth. A small speck of truth can LIGHT a dark room far better than all the evil mainstream propoganda. People are no longer accepting lies. WE WILL OVERCOME. WE, THE PEOPLE, are going to reclaim this great land. Truth always wins.
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I don’t know about you, but I think people have had enough of all this ‘waking up’ and web talk. By now even those that listen to the standard media KNOW there are many things wrong going on. And the situation can’t wait too much longer as it is. For the simple reason that we all know there are plenty of resources available and a lot of them are being misused.
On top of that globalization is going while most people are being restricted to where they are, limited in traveling by crimes that make no sense, subjected to harassment by any creative means, and with a strong defense budget and personnel of all kinds involved in security and defense that shows to be not doing the job: by the results that people are limited while the people ‘in charge’ CAN MOVE WITH NO PROBLEM AT ALL.
That is unusual and IT STANDS out. And it leads people to conclude that is what is being sought. And we neither like,nor can no longer sustain it.
We just won’t give to the ruling power our kids to be manipulated, if they hope to fix the economy with the new generations they have to figure out quickly that they are being damaged by the same solutions that have been implemented.
It is time to solve the problems, and it all starts by allowing people to move, think and work.
WE can not wait three more years to elect some other people that look and say good and intelligent things for then follow the same trend.
Let’s start NOW: who wants to join in the new year resolution?
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WE DON’T ACCEPT MIND CONTROL
or behavioral manipulations imposed onto people without knowledge or consent. Either way, down or up.
or any chip implantation, anywhere in the body or mind even with any open disclosure of what it is, or further remote control idea of mass manipulation. Is simple the reason: safety in every aspect.
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Now, president Obama should not be blamed for the situation, but he will if things continue the same way, and we all know any one else that follows will too. Though each one of us realizes that is a cumulative effect.
It is clear that if you invest in war economy the war have to keep at the center of it to maintain the flow of money, WHICH IS BLOOD-STAINED MONEY.
If research money is mainly funded for weapons there will be such high number available that their use HAS TO BE JUSTIFIED, used on even your own population?
If there is money flowing toward major corporations, by any creative lies and laws, they will hold the power tighter and tighter, and become so massive that crash by inefficiency, just like a massive government infrastructure. It is actually an observable natural law that goes across many species.
Important science was accomplished last century. What have you done with it? are you waiting to use it in space?
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I couldn’t agree more Ariel! Maybe it has something to do with our involvement in Iraq & Afghanistan is why Al Qaida is soo upset!
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Ron Paul was asking the “Why?”. “Why are the terriorist upset with up?” Not, “Why defend Yemen?” and that’s where the confussion happened. Does anyone agree with me?
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Ron Paul has a very good knowledge of the history of the CIA’s deliberate attacks on the inner workings of sovereign nations. Iran is a perfect example.
In 1953, Britain was not able to convince the Democratically elected leader of Iran to sell Britain cheap oil at a price that Britain believed they were entitled to purchase it for. The leader of Iran chose instead, to sell his nations oil at a profit. Well this pi$$ed the British government off so they came whining to the American government, asking that they help Britain remove this democratically elected leader of Iran….(And the U,S Government illegally did just exactly that). Britain and the U,S governments got together and orchestrated a coup which overthrew the Democratically elected leader of Iran and then together,(they) put the unelected Shaw of Iran in power in Iran. The Shaw of Iran ruled for 26 years with an iron fist and he brutalized anyone who didn’t lick his feet. Shortly before the people of Iran removed his pathetic, Hitler type a$$$ from their territory in 1979,the United states and Britain authorized France to build and set up the only Nuclear production reactor that Iran has ever had. A few months after it’s completion, the Iranian people removed the brutal bastard that the U,S and Britain forced upon their people. They then cut off most dealings with the United states and Britain. Now, the U,S and Britain are once again trying to convince the world that Iran needs to be attacked. Why? Well it has to do with the fact Iran refuses to sell their oil at a price that the U,S and Britain want to pay. It also has as much to do with the fact that Iran’s leaders are now in control of the Nuclear production plant that the U,S and British governments authorized them to have back in the late 1970′s. Just goes to show you that if you don’t allow the U,S and British governments to control your lives, your future, and your assets, they will look for ways to butcher your people, steal your assets and replace your democratically elected leaders with vicious butchers who will lock you up, torture you and kill you at the drop of a hat.
That is unfortunately, the U,S and British governments idea of Democracy.
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We should also acknowledge the fact that the United States government had Saddam Hussein on their payroll as a paid assassin back in the late 1950′s and 1960′s. The united states government found the opportunity to have the Iraqi leadership removed from power by putting saddam in a position where he could seize power. This allowed the U,S to install the puppet Saddam as the leader of Iraq. The first thing that Saddam did was call his cabinet ministers together for a meeting. He had someone read from a list, all of the names of cabinet members who disagreed with his policies. Those members were immediately removed from the chamber. They were marched out into the courtyard and executed within earshot of the rest of the cabinet members and the reading of those names and removal of those people was filmed for the whole world to see. Saddam was now the big man and Donald Rumsfeld flew his happy a$$$$ to Iraq to congratulate him. When Saddam illegally attacked Iran in a war that he very quickly began to lose, guess who ran to Saddams aid with weapons of mass destruction and helped Saddamn butcher the Iranians as well as his own Kurdish people? Yup, you guessed it. The good ol socialist USA. SO ONCE AGAIN THE UNITED STATES SUPPORTED AN ILLEGAL WAR AGAINST IRAN. And, if that isn’t bad enough, they have been trying to garner support to do it again. But this time, they will launch the next war against Iran from the nine bases that the united states has illegally built in the nation of Iraq.
The truth about Saddam and the U,S-British connection can be found on youtube. It just takes a little research and the willingness to do so. This will get you started.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyhTI7ZpnlE&feature=fvw
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Well here we go again, Ron Paul talks about a non-interventionist foreign policy and right away he’s labelled an anti-semite. The irony here is that By labelling Ron Paul an anti-semite Mr. Stein publically exposed the real motives behind the many American led Middle East military campaigns to the world. They are for all intention purposes Jewish wars using America as a proxy to eliminate all the so-called “major threats” to Israeli hegemony in the M.E. Non-intervention in the M.E. would mean no more financial, military, or moral support for that Artificially created Rogue Fascist State called Isra-Hell. When that Zionazi, high paying memeber of La Kosher Nostra (Benny-no intelligence allowed Stein) opened his big stupid mouth to Demonize Ron Paul, he essentially showed to the public where his loyalties lie.
PS. I would recommend Mr. Stein & his Zionist Kin-Folk would best serve the world (and America)if they just flushed themselves down the Al-Qaeda. Cheers.
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Indeed. And consider the following…
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/02/world/asia/02korea.html
Korea is extending an olive branch to the USA and there has been no major terrorism attacks from them in ages, because we got the hell out of their country.
Just maybe, these Jewish/Religious Zionists are doing something completely stupid and pointless that benefits nobody but some nasty banker’s checking account. This is idiocy.
Our foreign policy is complete nonsense run by insane convicts.
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Yes our foreign policy is nonsense. Unfortunately we will stay in Iraq forever. The United states government, along with the Israeli and British governments are absolutely going to illegally start a major war with Iran and they will launch that war from Israel and Iraq.
Then, WWIII will most likely begin. But, rest assured that most people are expendable. The worlds major powers will be safely hiding deep underground in well stocked, well built underground bases. (But you and your families will not be invited to join them).
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Ron Paul believes that noninterventionism and honoring the sovereignty of nations is the most hopeful road to peace. Ben Stein and his brigade of neocon armchair warriors think that “superpowers” or “the world’s only superpower” should be able to buy or bomb other nations leaders, according to its needs. That is, if they aren’t nuked up. Ron Paul doesn’t see the intervention as necessary or just, so naturally its repercussions are also unnecessary.
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Ben Stein is a disgrace.
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Sayyid is a patsy designed by the evil forces which run our mainstream financial sector. We see terrorists like this not even get caught, within the society we now live.
http://rawstory.com/2009/12/judge-drops-charges-blackwater-guards-accused-massacre/
Eliminate the heart of the cancer and tear down the banking monstrosity, shoot it out and kill it, and Sayyid and the rest will blow away into so much dust you will never find the pieces.
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Most of the people the terrorists are murdering today, are their own people in the Middle East. Will Iraq continue to be a hotbed for terrorism if we leave now? Yes, the Iraqis think so too. Terrorists are not picky as to who they kill, as long as they accomplish their agenda, which equates to tyranny.
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“Will Iraq continue to be a hotbed for terrorism if we leave now?”
The answer to this question is examine history. After we left occupation during the Gulf War, did Iraq continue to be a hotbed for ‘terrorism’ as its called?
Well, besides a few fringe radical groups it seemed to calm down overall until Soddom Hussein decided to start a civil war. And to tell you the truth, the civil war had nothing to do with any of us in the USA. We should have let them sort it out like we did Korea and watch how much calmer it would have gotten.
The problem is, when someone says we have ‘left’ a country that does not really mean we left. Our own CIA stays inside these countries like Iraq long after the army is gone, or other mercenaries stick around to cause all kinds of trouble.
But in general with nations where we have no presence to speak of, such as Madagascar, we basically see no threats or radical groups of terrorists on our borders.
It is when we get involved too much, and fall asleep to what our own CIA & rogues are doing in foreign countries….where the trouble always starts. This is not a winner takes all game.
This takes a delicate balancing act of knowing when to be involved with foreign nations and when to stay out of it. That’s Ron Paul’s real message.
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I take it you don’t consider Saddom Hussein as a tyrant then.
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Oh no, he is a tyrant. It is just whether or not that is worth taking over the country. These are all vital factors to consider.
I would weigh the issue carefully like Ron Paul does, and decide if necessary, to have a covert team go in there and kill him off so there is no further wars from Soddom’s angle.
The civil war in Iraq was going to happen regardless if we were there or not, but usually its less messy when we stay out of the way as the middle man.
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You consider Korea to be ‘calmer’ now? Interesting perspective. Maybe if a nuke-wielding North Korea were north of you, you perspective might be quite different than this lazy ‘ah yeah, things just work out, it is gods will’.
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He does not “consider” anything, he has proof that North Korea is a lot calmer now since we stopped interfering. It took a while and there are civil wars, but it worked.
Terrorist attacks are no longer going on from Koreans or Korean military mercenaries and North Korea has sought good relations with our country.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/02/world/asia/02korea.html
If only every politician had an ounce of the intelligence and candor that Ron Paul has, we never would be as far off track as we are today!
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Matt, let me get this straight. You are implying that because certain people are pathological and dangerous, they should be kept away from ALL of society without us finding out the root motivations or causes for what they do.
That is what we’re expected to believe….right? Gee, in the real world we call that paranoid isolationism. Some might even call it delusional. So Matt if that’s absolutely undeniably your world, maybe we should all drop you off at the next mariners cargo dock before they take off from port, would that not be just perfect?
See, the truth is we can learn literally nothing from your babbling about conspiracy theories. Some of us believe 9-11 is probably an inside job, and that’s perfectly fine, there is evidence to support those theories. Some may believe none of that could have happened, that is perfectly alright since there is a lot of evidence to support the theory that Arabs attacked New York City.
But underneath all of it, we genuinely want to understand what motivates terrorism and what the cause might be when the rubber meets the road. And one of those has already been proven, it is partially caused by our own armed forces meddling in the foreign affairs of other nations in an inappropriate way.
Think about it Matt, this is not rocket science. Our armed forces are in Yemen, random terrorists attack us who both hate our presence and are pathologically insane. Our armed forces are nowhere within the country of Bangladesh and Papa New Guinea, do we see a mass onslaught of terrorism from either of these countries? Any incidents of cubans or bangladesh suicide groups attacking us?
Furthermore, is there any outside evidence of any sort of attacks at all from these places? Our troops are not in greenland, have we ever gotten attacked by irate and angry icelanders? Again, besides a criminal here and there….nothing!
But lo and behold, our troops are stationed in Somalia, they are still in Saudi Arabia, they are stationed in Israel, they are in Pakistan and Yemen, and even in the nation of Japan…..and we have seen various terrorist attacks of each shape and size coming from people who live in those countries!!
Gasp, so Ron Paul is no senile old man after all as he actually knows every single detail that he is talking about with respect to these outsiders. He is laying on some good old common sense, with a thick sense of scholarly expertise that most of our politicians could not give a care about.
Ron Paul contrary to anything you suggest, is thinking in terms of the bigger picture as to what the root causes of terrorism are within official society. The poor get ripped to shreds by the rich, there is a lot of crime and inequality clearly evident in nations including Yemen, and our own U.S. military do not exactly make everyone feel as welcome as your nephew assumes from that child’s coloring book.
This, along with taking over their banking infrastructure and merging it into our own via fiat currency trading….could go a long ways to explaining the hostilities any of them feel as well as their actions of outright violence.
The psychology of Ron Paul goes like this: You run into my town and start bombing my schools, my way of life as well as my job, you would naturally expect me to be incredibly upset and strike back with total anarchy.
No, it is not as simple as punching someone in the face. You are not being punched in the face when some lone criminal hijacks and aircraft and blows up a 7-11 store Matt, that is more like being scratched on the arm.
Being punched in the face is closer to what your brother already did to the guy by stealing his car, violating his wife, and stealing his paycheck through brute force. In this case the brother is the USA’s own CIA and armed mercenaries, whom blew Yemen to smithereens & incinerated thousands of people, destroyed their dwellings and continued to rip apart the economy of the country. You see what you missed, is big brother has been doing that in Yemen for years and the air strike was nothing at all but the news deciding to cover the main event.
Our intent however so well meaning, does not ever turn out that way when it comes to overseas misadventures in Yemen, Belize, Russia, Azerbaijan or anywhere else where we have a full time military presence. The countries we do not occupy seem to for the most part forget we exist, they don’t bother us. Yet the countries we do occupy always seem to bother us, always seem to attack. Now I could just be seeing things, but I don’t think that’s coincidence.
In the end Ron Paul proved what is merely Thomas Paine’s book of common sense. It’s easy to see what the root causes of terrorism are, since it is within the eye of your beholder. We all impact how terrorism manifests itself, no matter how much we detach ourselves from its horrors. We do things that anger people, and then angry people who already hate us, retaliate and mutilate. Often they also mutilate for no reason, even the innocent. But given that it does not always happen with the same candor, we must have something to do with setting off that trigger of reaction that we simply just try to deny.
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Please save me your purported monopoly on altruistic and transparent spiritual knowledge of intentions. When you name yourself something blatantly disrespectful as ‘mattisafool’ it rings hollow.
This is not a strawman, you allotted youself these prescient powers, and I find it curious that you apply your patience to terrorists while immediately discounting the opinions/proof of your countrymen.
You make your choices, just don’t delude yourself on their altruism.
So, how about ALL of those countries that we DO have bases in where WE ARE NOT FACING TERRORISM? By your logic, shouldn’t ALL of those states also be summarily attacking the US because we are there?
I mean you confused me, we have bases in like 170 countries, and how many actively breed terrorists? And primarily located where?
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Al-CIA-da is supposedly in 60 countries. This is just one group.
In how many of those countries should we be wreaking havoc?
There is no endgame to chasing boogymen with batallions.
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