112 responses to “The Federal Reserve is Responsible for the Crisis”

  1. Dfens

    This is the kind of America Ron Paul is advocating. Ron Paul wants an American where we poison our own children so we can be competitive with the damn Chinese Communists. He is a traitor and his followers are traitors! You are against abortion, right? After all, who is going to work in the mines or ingest the poisons if the childern are killed before they're born? Very touching. Hypocrites!

    At least 94 people living near a lead factory, most of them children, have tested positive for lead poisoning, state media said Monday, prompting authorities to order the closure of the plant. Hundreds more people are still waiting for test results.

    Reports of lead poisoning have emerged around the country since last year, highlighting the heavy environmental cost of China's rapid economic development.

    Authorities organized medical tests for some 1,600 residents in four villages within an 2,600-foot (800-meter) radius of the Zhongyi Alloy Co. in Longchang county of Sichuan province's Neijiang city, the official Xinhua News Agency reported Monday.

    Ninety-four residents, including 88 children, were found to be suffering from lead poisoning, while 745 others were waiting for their test results. - Google/AP

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    1. longshotlouie

      Your desperation is showing, D.

      Any chance that you could somehow make a connection here between Paul and poisoning?
      Couldn't you have just as easily pointed at the pope, or Pelosi, or Paul Revere?

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    2. Ragnar

      What does that have to do with Ron Paul?

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      1. longshotlouie

        Ragnar, you must be new here. With 'Dfens', it's never about logic. He is here simply to amuse.

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        1. Fluidly Unsure

          My take on it is he is a member of the gang whose only goal is to offend others.

          Because of these posters, this site is becoming a nest of character attacks and personal insults. Before, we would get spicy with each other now and then. But nothing like it is now.

          We need to ignore these trolls and debate amongst ourselves. All forums go through periods like this.

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      2. Dfens

        Are the "free traitors" really that clueless about the effects of their hallowed policies?

        Ok, let's look at this from a national perspective. Why do we have laws that prohibit businesses from using child or slave labor here in the US? The problem isn't that everyone wants to use child or slave labor. Most business owners are decent people and would not, on their own, advocate such labor practices. The problem is, there are a few who would use this type of labor. That few would have a competitive advantage over those who do not use child and slave labor. The same is true of those who pollute the environment. They get a competitive advantage over those who buy equipment and use special processes to prevent the pollution of the environment. So when you take these laws away, then, under capitalism, you encourage the use of child and slave labor.

        Now let's take this concept globally. If you encourage free trade with a country that uses child and slave labor, a country that does have safety standards for the health and welfare of their workers, a country who allows their industries to pollute the land and water, a country that does not respect our patents and copyrights (excessive as they may be), then you are actively either encouraging our own companies to do the same or you are handing our companies a death sentence by forcing them to compete on a playing field that is stacked in favor of their competitors in countries who do allow this crap.

        So which are you? Are you a traitor who wants all of our industries to die so your Communist masters in China can siphon away all of our industrial might, or are you advocating we resort to the kind of labor and pollution policies used in 3rd world crap holes like China and India where we poison our own children and have no regard for the lives of our workers?

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          I think the Libertarians advocate both. They want child labor and pollution by abolishing the EPA. And they also want China to manufacture everything, while we all sit back, drink tea in our Sunday best, and talk about the good old days of the Confederacy while the negroes toil in the fields.

          *moves forefinger around ear clockwise* they're craaazy

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        2. longshotlouie

          More projection from our resident statists.

          They screwed up passing these so-called 'free trade' agreements. Now that they are exposed as abject failures, they would like to pass the blame to anyone else.

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            Your anarchist views of free trade is worse than NAFTA/CAFTA/WTO. No retaliation, no treaties, just middle class and job destroying 'zero tariffs regardless of what other nations do'.

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          2. longshotlouie

            Was that 'No Trade' that you were looking for?

            Are you even a little embarrassed about the holes in your bucket?

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          3. Fred the Protectionist

            Don't you know you're own God's teachings?

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul254.html

            "CAFTA: More Bureaucracy, Less Free Trade

            by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

            ...We don’t need government agreements to have free trade. We merely need to lower or eliminate 'tariffs', without regard to what other nations do..."

            *euphemisms removed*

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          4. longshotlouie

            So you want more CAFTA type agreements?

            Are you switching sides?

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          5. Fred the Protectionist

            Your cognitive abilities are limited.

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        3. Lindsey

          Dfens: Should China have to float their currency like we do? Should we float our currency or quit doing that? The answers to these questions have more to do with the topic at hand, the Federal Reserve.

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            Pssst, buddy, China is a sovereign nation and they do whatever the hell they please, shhh don't tell anyone else it's a secret.

            But we got this little wonderful tool in the Constitution called a "Tariff", that would help.

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          2. longshotlouie

            Psssst, Fled has no clue about economics and enjoys advertising that fact.

            Shhhhh, it's a secret. OK, maybe it's not.

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          3. Fred the Protectionist

            pssst, Libertarians are very naive, don't tell anyone.

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      3. longshotlouie

        More projection from the statists. It was your ilk that proposed and passed these so-called 'Free Trade' agreements. Now you want to drop the blame on those that warned you of failure.

        Remember that huge sucking sound. That will be you diappearing into history.

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          You nuts would lower US trade barriers to zero while letting China increase tariffs and manipulate their currency even more than they do now.

          You neocons (libertarians) are dangerous freakazoids.

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          1. longshotlouie

            Lessee, America gets back to producing while lowering trade barriers as China raises tariffs?

            O yea, sounds real scary, ..................... for China

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          2. SS

            We can be certain that Fred has never run a business.
            At least not a successful business. He'd be chasing away
            customers and employees with his fear management.

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          3. Fred the Protectionist

            "America gets back to producing while lowering trade barriers as China raises tariffs?

            O yea, sounds real scary, ………………… for China"

            You idiots, when China protects their markets and we don't, our manufacturing industries leave. You destroyed the economy. You destroyed the Republican Party. You destroyed the middle class. You empowered the socialists. You destroyed Democracy. You.

            When someone loses their $40 hour job and is forced into a $10 an hour job, they take it kinda personally. Multiply that by tens of millions, they aint gonna vote for you dumbasses.

            The only way you'd get their votes back is after several generations have passed and people completely forget how prosperous their forebearers were. I hope you have the patience to wait about 50+ years for that to happen.

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          4. longshotlouie

            So we were in charge?

            Are you sure you're trolling at the correct site?

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          5. Fred the Protectionist

            I told you. Libertarian ideology has usurped the Republican Party about 20 years ago. Starting with Reagan. It started with trade liberalization, and it continues with social liberalism.

            But no you wouldn't want to vote for the "neocons". *bobs head in mocking motion*

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    3. Lindsey

      Dfens: What does your article on people in China getting lead poisoning have to do with Ron Paul? Do you have lead poisoning? Maybe Dr. Paul can treat you!

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        Apparently the only people Dr. Paul treated were babies.

        "WHAAAH the federal reserve, WHAAH!"

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        1. longshotlouie

          Seems like you would have done some research beyond what your handler gave you in the talking points memo. Flight surgeons don't do alot of the baby stuff.

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            Wikipedia says Ron Paul was a doctor in a maternity ward, supposedly getting first elected mostly by women in the small town he lived in. Not being elected because of his ideas, but being elected using mobster tactics, sortah. HAHA.

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    4. Citizen

      Mr. Fred the Protector, what does trade policy and the Chi-Coms human rights abuses have to do with the Federal Reserve responsibility for the financial crisis?

      You need to bump the turn table and move out of that worn out groove!

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        "what does trade policy and the Chi-Coms human rights abuses have to do with the Federal Reserve responsibility for the financial crisis?"

        Absolutely nothing since the FED isn't responsible for the financial crisis, free-trade/open-borders is. Although the FED is run by Bernanke, a free trader himself. Why are all jews free traders?

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      2. Fluidly Unsure

        Please don't feed the troll

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    5. Bottomline

      Dfens your theories about RP are nonsense and untrue! & he's poision? I don't get that!

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    6. Jack

      Dfens,both the major parties have been toady boys to free trade.I think there should be a tarrif on cheap labor products.

      Ron Paul is for true free markets but the Fed is about cartels and interest rate fixing.I don't agree with some of Ron's philosophy but he has the foundations right and that I cannot deny him.

      So get off your high horse and look at the broader picture.

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      1. Dfens

        The reason I attended the Tea Party rally in my state was because I was tired of picking the least moronic of Dumb and Dumber. I voted for Chuck Baldwin for president in 2008 because he was against "free trade". Now that he's had his Libertarian conversion, I'll find another candidate to vote for in 2012. I don't "setttle" or "compromise" when it comes to the safety and security of the United States of America, nor do I vote for candidates who take their oath to the US Constitution lightly. I certainly don't "waste my vote" on candidates who are traitors to this nation, wether they be named John Kerry, John McCain, or Ron Paul.

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          I voted for Baldwin too, and sort of regret it too. He constantly writes glowing reviews of Ron Pool. Ron Paul is a fool, and anyone who supports him is a fool, including Baldwin.

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        2. Dfens

          When I attended the Tea Party last fall the Ron Paul supporters were a small minority all clumped together in one place, as usual. They don't like to mingle with those who might have opposing views, clearly. I did not vote for Ron Paul because of his stand on "free trade" prior to the 2008 elections. He had already made his position clear, but then he and his supporters show up at these Tea Party rallies under the guise that they're one of us because he didn't support NAFTA or the WTO. The part he didn't mention was the fact that he didn't support these trade agreements because he thought they were too good of a deal for the US, not because they sold out the US middle class worker like everyone else at the Tea Party rallies thought.

          Ron Paul is a traitor. He is a traitor to the Tea Party movement. He is a traitor to his country. He favors unilateral "free trade" which is "free trade" in the same sense that unilateral disarmament makes us "free". We'll be free right up to the time someone decides to kick our ass!

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            I refuse to allow to the Libertarians to disown NAFTA/CAFTA/WTO, because it has been a disaster.

            Don't let these bastards get away with it.

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          2. longshotlouie

            Isn't that sweet. Our delusional brothers have found each other. Now go find a room.
            Bizarro World awaits your return.

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      2. Fred the Protectionist

        "Ron Paul is for true free markets but the Fed is about cartels and interest rate fixing.I don’t agree with some of Ron’s philosophy but he has the foundations right and that I cannot deny him."

        Yes all slavers are true free traders.

        I don't think you get it, "true free trade" destroys manufacturing, destroys the middle class. And Ron Paul is a "true free trader", nobody is disputing that. Can you hear me now.

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        1. longshotlouie

          Oh, we can hear you. You still make zero sense, but we hear you.

          Where and when was this supposed 'free trade' happening? We saw all of the alphabet trading agreements, no free trade there. Maybe you came from another century, or another dimension.

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            Why do you deny reality? NAFTA/WTO/CAFTA/etc is free trade.

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          2. longshotlouie

            Po' Po' Pitiful Fled. still unable to tell the difference between government trade agreements and actual free trade. It's no wonder you get suckered into things like CAFTA.

            When did you first sell out to the command and control economy and forsake freedom?

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          3. Fred the Protectionist

            Yeah I know the difference between FTA's and true Free Trade. FTA's at least try to open foreign markets while you regressive Ronulans would let foreign markets remain closed off destroying far more jobs then the pitiful 1/3rd of all lost manufacturing jobs we have now from FTA's.

            FTA's aren't destructive enough for you.

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          4. longshotlouie

            Thanks for the reminder that you don't know WTF you are talking about.

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    7. Jack

      Dfens. China today is not a true communist state.You too often rely on sterotypes to push your arguments.China is really becoming an oligarchy just like we in the West is evolving into.Corporate elites and Govt are uniting to surpress the rights and freedoms of the masses.

      If the notion of free trade is the only the only issue you have with RP, then he has a lot of positive qualities that you and others fail to address.

      While I disagree with Ron as per the detail of trade,his basic philosophy of small Govt and the operation of the free market is sound. Individuals best know how to spend their money and the interference of Govt is an obomination since Govt is not driven by the necessity of survival.

      Govt spends and wastes that which is not theirs.They can afford to, as their survival by the tax payer is mostly assured.

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        All this economic crap started with NAFTA, so trade is the most important issue, and Ron Paul is on the wrong side of it.

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        1. longshotlouie

          Paul is against these so-called free trade agreements, so we can assume that you like them?

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            What you Ronulans want is worse then the FTA's (Free trade agreements). You would lose set US trade barriers to zero while inviting foreign nations to completely block American products. You nutballs would starve and throw out every American from their homes if given the chance.

            As if destroying 1/3rd of all Manufacturing jobs wasn't bad enough with FTA's, you want to destroy 3/3 along with destroying every single service sector job that's suppose to service manufacturing.

            You guys are fruitier then the Green-Commies, who would maybe destroy half of all jobs, no you want to destroy them all. I'd rather live in a Socialist Paradise then a Libertarian one.

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          2. longshotlouie

            Why do you hate liberty and competition?
            Remind us again, which form of government manipulation do you prefer?

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          3. Fred the Protectionist

            Why do you hate the founding fathers, the Constitution, every Republican up till the 1920's, American people, American products?

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  2. longshotlouie

    Enron X 10, Lehman Bros Exposed
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35841681#35841681

    Who will take the fall?

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    1. longshotlouie

      Just wondering if anyone that gave this a thumbs down would like to stand up and defend Lehman Bros?

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      1. longshotlouie

        Didn't think so

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  3. Barry Soetoro

    I feel that even if Ron Paul were to win in 2012 it would be way to late. At this point we are too late. This country has a complete fraud sitting in the White House. Let's keep our fingers crossed and HOPE for the best.

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    1. YES WE CAN remove him from office

      If you don't believe me see for yourself. Obama is a fraud!

      http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/12/aka-obama-fraud-movie-trailer-video.html

      He needs to be investigated immediatly and then tried for treason because he's guilty and so many counts.

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    2. Ryan

      Barry, crossing our fingers is not a solution. Liberty and Freedom must always be defended. It's never too late to fight for what is right.
      In the 2010 midterm elections we can toss out several Fiscal Liberals and Neo-Conservatives. At bare minimum we can minimize the long-term damage.
      ...We can financially tie Obama's hands for his last two years in office.

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    3. Ross

      Barry, hoping for the best is not good enough.The US Constitution was created by people of sincerity,tenacity,courage,wisdom and integrity.To let the highest of human aspiration fall by the wayside , is a travesty of monumental proportions.

      To betray those who fought so hard for these freedoms/ rights by complacency and an over whelming sense of impotence, diminishes all our humanity.

      We are facing a greater battle that Hitler's Nazism.The facists are now eminating from within.So choose.Slavery or freedom.

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        "sincerity,tenacity,courage,wisdom and integrity"

        Well that rules out Libertarians.

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  4. Fred the Protectionist

    All these articles about the Federal Reserve at ronpaul.com.

    You know, nobody else gives a crap about the Federal Reserve.

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    1. Ross

      Fred, If no one gives a crap about the Fed, then why don't we get rid of them.
      You seem to imply that they are of no consequence and therefore are of no useful purpose.

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        Nobody gives a crap about the Federal Reserve, nobody gives a crap about water-electrical utilities, but nobody suggests getting rid of utilities.

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        1. longshotlouie

          Which type of false argument did you just take, Fled?

          You will be able to answer that question, if you are 'Smarter Than A 5th Grader'.

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        2. Kyle

          Yeah that's why our former presidents did away w/ the Bank of The United States of America and then warned us of the dangers of having a central bank. Now everyone thank Woodrow Wilson for plundering America's wealth.

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            so how exactly does the FR "plunder the wealth"?

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          2. Fred the Protectionist

            Ooooh that FED
            Can't you smell that FED
            Ooooh that FED
            The FED that's all around youuuuu.

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          3. longshotlouie

            Someone should give you a thumbs up for your Fed/Cocaine connection.

            Like a broken clock, even you can be correct on occasion.

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  5. Jack

    Does anyone have a reference or know how the fractional reserve banking system works? From what I can ascertain banks can create and loan out 9 times or more money than they have in deposits.Is the Fed the exception? Can they generate as much as they like ?

    Ordinary banks can generate new money via the fractional reserve system but as the principal is repaid it enters oblivion ie (if it is cyber money ,not deposits), but the actual interest and charges by the bank then becomes a source of fractional reserve.

    Another important point is: What are the international agreements that limit sovereign countries creating their own credit ? Most countries around the world have enormous foreign debt. Who makes the rules about currency creation and what are they?

    Our currencies devalue by 40% every 10 yrs,as Ron has pointed out the US $ has lost 96% of it's value since 1913 with just a small inflation rate of 3.5%. Inflation is compounding like interest.It phoney money generated upon phoney money.

    Would someone have a source or know the answers to these questions ?

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    1. Lindsey

      The fractional reserve system says that banks only have to have a certain percentage of money in the bank to pay depositors if they all came into the bank one day to withdraw all their money. I believe that percentage is around 10% although I don't know. The Fed. can change the percentage as one of its tools of monetary policy. In other words, if you go to the bank and deposit 100 dollars the bank can loan out 90 with a 10% reserve requirement. I don't know where to tell you to go on the internet to find information, but there is plenty in your local library.

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      1. Lindsey

        Also, our reserve requirements have gotten weaker over the years which has contributed to our dollars weakening status around the world. I firmly believe that we need to audit the Fed. and if we can't abolish it, at least strengthen some of the reserve requirement laws.

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        1. Jack

          Lindsey, I think that Ron's idea of a new competing currency issued by Congress has a lot of merit.What Congress can do, is determine the value of all US Govt assets , land held by individuals and have shares issued to back the value of the new currency.

          The new currency is then backed by these shares, therefore the new currency cannot outstrip the value of assets in the economy. Perhaps the new currency could be called a share dollar or " shollar" ? The money supply then increases with productivity.

          The Fed $ will soon depreciate and a new currency will be a hedge against inflation for workers in the coming yrs.

          It is really difficult to find info on fractional reserve banking and international borrowing agreements.Thanks for your effort.

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            If it were simple inflation than worker's salaries would have gone up in proportion to the cost of goods and services. But guess what, worker salaries have remained static.

            Look somewhere else for the cause of these economic woes, it is not the Federal Reserve. You guys can't even properly identify the symptoms, you will never be able to identify the disease. Ron Paul is a doctor, he should know that.

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          2. longshotlouie

            Please explain why salaries would have necessarily gone up because of inflating the money supply.

            No, I won't be holding my breath.

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          3. Fred the Protectionist

            "Please explain why salaries would have necessarily gone up because of inflating the money supply"

            Are you serious?

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          4. longshotlouie

            Moreso than you. Answer the question, if you possess the ability.

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          5. Fred the Protectionist

            I'm just stunned at how galactically stupid you are. Inflation is a rise in wages and prices, where only savings is hurt. A rise in price, without a rise in wages is not called inflation, it is called a serious pile of crap.

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          6. longshotlouie

            So you possess a Leftist ideology on economics. What are your other Leftist tendencies, other than your debate technique?

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          7. Fred the Protectionist

            Your neocon (libertarian) policies empower the left, pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

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        2. Lindsey

          I did some research on reserve requirements. 10% is the United states reserve requirement on checking accounts. There is no reserve requirement for savings accounts or CDs. We have not changed the rate for a while although historically it has been much higher. Also, I remember back in the 70's while in school that banks could not loan against checking accounts at all and reserve requirements were 10% for savings accounts and CD's. If my memory is correct then things have changed rather drastically since then haven't they! I'll research some more and post when I find out.

          I also found out that China's reserve requirement is 13.5% and they have raised their requirement several times in the past few years trying to control inflation. We, of course, use open market operations exclusively now. I believe China is smart. Maybe we could learn something from them!

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            That's right, the LIbertarian wants to take advice from the Communists.

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      2. Bottomline

        The Federal Reserve should be reformed and follow the requirements so they won't be so corrupt if not abolished.

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          So what has the Federal Reserve done that's so bad.

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          1. longshotlouie

            Let's start with the fact that they have not met even one of their originally stated goals.

            You know, the same thing that would get any of us fired.

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          2. Fred the Protectionist

            "Let’s start with the fact that they have not met even one of their originally stated goals."

            Yes they have

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          3. Bottmline

            They have made it easier for big banks to make way too much profits and stealing our money.

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          4. Fred the Protectionist

            Are you, libertarian, suggesting that the banking industry become reg-reg-reg-regulated?

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          5. longshotlouie

            Name a single stated goal of the Fed that they can claim success.

            Again, I won't be holding my breath.

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          6. longshotlouie

            What we are suggesting is that the banks be brought down to size and that they be weaned from government.

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          7. Fred the Protectionist

            "Name a single stated goal of the Fed that they can claim success."

            * conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
            * supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
            * maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
            * providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system

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          8. Fred the Protectionist

            "What we are suggesting is that the banks be brought down to size and that they be weaned from government."

            Why? So they can scam people out of their money easier?

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          9. longshotlouie

            * conducting the nation’s monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
            ----
            And we get strangled credit markets, high unemployment, unstable prices, and indeterminable long term interest rates.

            * supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation’s banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
            ----
            And we get banks dying all over the country

            * maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
            -----
            And we get a collapsing financial system with huge risks

            * providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation’s payments system
            -------
            Sounds like a good ol' boy system to me

            Sorry chump, that spells abject failure.

            You are FIRED !!!
            Clean out your desk
            Security will see you out.

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          10. Fred the Protectionist

            "And we get strangled credit markets, high unemployment, unstable prices, and indeterminable long term interest rates."

            Thanks to your Libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, which destroyed the middle class.

            "And we get banks dying all over the country"

            Thanks to your Libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders which destroyed the middle class.

            "And we get a collapsing financial system with huge risks"

            Thanks to your Libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders which destroyed the middle class.

            I guess things go bad when you destroy the middle class with your free trade and open borders. Good job Libertarian, pat yourselves on your back for a job well done.

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    2. alex

      http://mises.org/daily/3820

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  6. Lindsey

    Somebody needs to ask the reporter on a date to a Tea Party or a Ron Paul rally! How about it Louie!

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    1. longshotlouie

      Nah, I prefer them a little more mature and a wee bit smarter.

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  7. Dfens

    MoRon is wrong again. Yeah, the Fed is the enemy and the Communist Chinese are our friends. Let's keep going with Ron Paul's "free trade" policies and see where that gets us.

    [F]or every dollar we send abroad for oil or gas, we send $4.20 abroad for manufactured goods. Why is a dependency on the Persian Gulf for a fraction of the oil we consume more of a danger than a huge growing dependency on China for the necessities of our national life?

    How great is that dependency?

    China accounts for 83 percent of the U.S. global trade deficit in manufactures and 84 percent of our global trade deficit in electronics and machinery.

    Over the last decade, our total trade deficit with China in manufactured goods was $1.75 trillion, which explains why China, its cash reserves approaching $3 trillion, holds the mortgage on America.

    This week came a report that Detroit, forge and furnace of the Arsenal of Democracy in World War II, is considering razing a fourth of the city and turning it into farm and pastureland. Did the $1.2 trillion trade deficit we ran in autos and parts last decade help kill Detroit? - Human Events

    Yeah, it was the nasty old Fed that caused us to lose 5.8 million manufacturing jobs over the last decade not "free trade" right Ron? It was the mean old Fed that caused us to run up $6.2 trillion in deficits, with $3.8 trillion of that in manufactured goods over the last decade, not "free trade"? You damn "free traitors"! You've sold this country for glass beads and cheap TVs, and willingly lead your country and every ideal we've stood for to the slaughter.

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    1. longshotlouie

      Do you ever step off of that crumbling soapbox long enough to do any research?
      Is whiffle ball your favorite sport?

      Co-sponsors of HR 4759 include:
      Rep. Michael Arcuri, D-N.Y.; Rep. Joe Baca, D-Calif.; Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, R-Md.; Rep. Bruce Braley, D-Iowa; Rep. Michael Capuano, D-Mass.; Rep. Jerry Costello, D-Ill.; Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore.; Rep. Bob Filner, D-Calif.; Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz.; Rep. Phil Hare, D-Ill.; Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-N.Y.; Rep. Walter Jones, R-N.C.; Rep. Steve Kagen, D-Wis.; Rep. Marcy Kaptur, D-Ohio; Rep. Mike McIntyre, D-N.C.; Rep. Michael Michaud, D-Maine; Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas; Rep. Mark Schauer, D-Mich.; Rep. Fortney Stark, D-Calif.; Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich.; Rep. Peter Viclosky, D-Ind.; Rep. Charles Wilson, D-Ohio; and Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif.

      Let me guess .... you have no clue what HR 4759 is about?

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    2. Lindsey

      Dfens: I would like to put a bid on that farmland! Maybe we can put more of a dent in our deficit by using the land for something we do better than any country in the world (farm). Michigan used to be a great agricultural state!

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    3. Bottomline

      Dfens and Fred can't handle the truth. Because they have weak arguments and false theories in their findings.

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    4. Fred the Protectionist

      Correct Dfens, free trade with cheap foreign labor countries in combination with importing cheap foreign labor is responsible for this Great Recession, not the Federal Reserve.

      The neocons (Libertarians) are enemy.

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      1. Kyle

        Do you have any idea how GDP works? And how do you expect to trade with someone whom you won't trade with? You do know how nations make money don't you? It's not their fault our GDP has diminished. Gov't overspending plus the Fed is the real cause of the recession. 700 military bases in 130 countries. If you had actually listened to Mr. Paul you would have picked up on that one.

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          No, your free trade is what is responsible for the recession.

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      2. longshotlouie

        Libertarians are the polar opposite of Neo-Cons, and ther has been no free trade for many decades. There has only been 'Free Trade', NAFTA style. Government sanctioned and manipulated trade does not represent a free market.

        How is anyone going to take you seriously if you are unable to make these simple distinctions.
        We already have trouble taking you seriously because you never answer a question directly or provide any evidence for your pronouncements.

        The one thing that we can be sure of, you hate competition.

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          Libertarians ARE THE neocons. Neo-Con simpy means New-Conservative (Neo is new in Greek).

          There is nothing NEW about being a Conservative warhawk. There is nothing NEW about Conservatives wanting trade treaties.

          But an Isolationist claiming not to be an isolationist cause you are a coward and afraid of harmless labels? That's new. But a politician who leaves their markets wide open and doesn't attempt to open a foreign markets, or even retaliate? That's new.

          Neocon doesn't mean "bad guy you disagree with", unless your a retard, it simply means NewConservative. A more accurate definition for you Libertarians would be "radical fruitcake"; but since you insist on being labeled Conservative, than you are the neocons.

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  8. Fred the Protectionist

    http://www.libertarian.co.uk/about/about.htm

    "The Libertarian Alliance was founded in 1977 by Mark Brady, Judy Englander, David Ramsay Steele and Chris Tame, in Mark Brady's flat in Woking. It was a formalisation and continuation of the Radical Libertarian Alliance, founded by Mark Brady, Pauline Russell and Chris Tame in late 1971, which itself had links to the Young Libertarians founded by David Myddleton in 1967. This was a breakaway movement from the Society for Individual Freedom, which was a merger of the Society of Individualists (dating to the 1840s) with the National League for Freedom. Nevertheless, relations between the Libertarian Alliance and the Society for Individual Freedom have remained good ever since, with an overlap of members and officers.

    Though we are held together by a shared hatred of the state, the Libertarian Alliance has no ideological orthodoxy. We are a coalition of conservatives, classical liberals, free market anarchists and mutualists, among many others. This being said, we are generally agreed on means. We have taken to ourselves the Marxist-Leninist tool of agitprop.
    .
    .
    .
    The Conservative Party During the 1980s, some of us tried hard to take over the governing party of this country. Though in practice, they were authoritarian corporatists, whose mission was to stabilise not change the existing order of things, the Conservatives justified themselves with a semi-libertarian rhetoric that allowed true believers to pose as hypocrites and get elected to positions of importance."

    Well the Libertarians in America succeeded, they usurped the Republican Party and pretty much turned it into a permanent minority party.

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    1. longshotlouie

      yepper, no reason to blame the neo-con dufuss' for killing their own party.

      [sarc off]

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        You Libertarians 'are the' Neocons. Buy a clue, unless you're too cheap.

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        1. Dfens

          The Ron Paul Neocons are too busy worshiping their deity, Ron Paul, to even know that they themselves have become the neocons. He whips them into a frenzy against the Fed because every religion needs a devil to fight. For years Ron Paul has railed against NAFTA and the WTO, snaring many unwary would-be-conservatives in to his personality cult. He didn't tell them the reason he was against NAFTA or the WTO was becuase he thought they were too good a deal for the US. He let them think he didn't like these organizations because they were not enough in the best interest of the US. Now he has them brainwashed into thinking their only enemies are their own countrymen. They are all traitors to the United States of America and to the very freedom they thought they were supporting when this cult started.

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          1. Kyle

            Do you even realize the implications of a gov't organization that sets the purchasing power of your money that has no oversight? Are you an idiot or something?

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          2. Fred the Protectionist

            The Federal Reserve has oversight, it's called Congress idiot.

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        2. longshotlouie

          Your desperation is starting to smell up the place.

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  9. Ryan

    I sure hope Ron Paul changes his mind and definitely runs for President in 2012.
    I can understand that he's getting old and that he's well deserving of a decent retirement. But we need him more than words can say.
    ... If he does retire, I may be forced to run for office just so we have at least one person with a brain, in government. ;P

    End the Fed!
    End Illegal Immigration!
    End Big Government!
    End the Wars!
    Repeal "The Patriot Act"!
    Cut Spending!

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  10. SS

    U.S. Economy - The Philosopher's Stone
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJDYAohRUec

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