241 responses to “National Bankruptcy will Repeal Obamacare”

  1. american patriot

    America is own its way now. The dominos are all in place. What a bunch of us americans don’t understand is that health care was the final move to completely end america as we know it. Financial instability is right around the corner. The fed cannot pay for it. The fed cannot control its costs. The fed has not set the foundation correctly for this supplied service. A service they should not supply because they cannot pay for it. The hand outs will break america.


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  2. RobertH

    @Jim Beam

    Hey ignoramus, at least know what you are talking about first. Where do you think we get our rights and objective morals from in the first place?

    You want other Paul supporters to grow up and not make fools of themselves, how about you be an example yourself?

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  3. Jim Beam

    Ron Paul’s supporters are dumber than I thought. When he says he has a moral issue with the bill, he is not talking about God or religion. He is saying it’s immoral to take money from one person by force and give it to another. He is saying its immoral to promise care for someone and then fail to deliver. By promising care, people will not need to prepare to care for themselves. They will be that much worse off when the system crashes. That’s immoral.

    The people who are sitting around talking about God in relation to Ron Paul’s comments do not understand Mr. Paul and make his movement look bad. Grow up and learn something before posting another comment and making fools of yourselves.

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  4. Tom Schoenheider

    To all,

    Somebody in the republican leadership needs to get their head out of their ……..

    Every Obama-head in the country will have ten talking points this morning which are “motherhood, apple pie and Chevrolet”.

    The head of the republican party was on this morning only had this response; “It costs too much” making look exactly like they are trying to take away “good stuff”

    Where are the brains & leadership?

    The negative talking points should be something like: (remember the bill isn’t even totally written yet and this is just from what I have read.

    We agree wholeheartedly that there are some “motherhood, apple pie and Chevrolet” provisions of the new bill, however what if your mother made you buy the clothes she picks out for you? What if apple pie was your only choice and you had to pay for a Chevrolet you didn’t want?

    The unfair and even unconstitutional parts of the bill totally outweigh the apple pie parts:

    Dictated purchases, you will be told what you must purchase by the federal government, a power the constitution does not give them.

    End of life panels who will decide what treatment you receive based on your “worth to society” basically meaning the young and important people will get priority.

    Reduction of Medicare to pay for the new bill which means fewer doctors will accept Medicare and those that do will have more patients than they can handle.

    Emergency rooms will be overrun with patients because the existing doctors cannot take care of 30 million new patients

    Doctors incomes dictated which means the smartest students of today will go to places like AIG not medical school. What student doctor is going to spend 16 years to become a brain surgeon if he will not be able to make more money than he can make the maximum amount as an MD? Who then will do your brain surgery?

    Medical schools will have to keep their classes full but instead of the “best and brightest”, they will have settle for the “not quite so smart”.

    Also, just so you know, there is a provision in the bill that certain sections “can never be changed in the future by Congress”.

    Who among us wants the IRS involved in their health care?

    Who wants to support an additional 141 government agencies and have them involved in your health care?

    Who wants the government to have the ability to take money from your tax return and/or directly from your bank account?

    Sure there are some good things in the new bill, but the cost to freedom and independence are far too great of a price not even counting the money we don’t have. That’s right “we don’t have”. The government has no money to pay for all of this unless they take it from us.

    Wake up America. The current administration is headed down the wrong path. Redistribution of wealth has never worked anywhere in the world. It won’t work here and the only people who should even think about liking it are those who are too lazy to try for themselves. Our country already has hundreds of safety nets for those who are trying.

    Anyway, unless somebody starts putting issue like these in front of the American people starting this morning, Obama will be on the road this afternoon with the ten best mothers, apple pies and Chevrolets.

    Maybe if you pass this on it will end up with somebody who can spread the message in this manner as to make the pie not taste nearly as sweet???

    Take care,

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    1. Mad Dog

      Tom, in your 8:55 post, you indicated that:
      “Sure there are some good things in the new bill …”.
      You seem more familiar with this bill than I; could you share what those good things are?

      You see, I strongly support reforming our Medical Cost Insurance system (which, by the way, has nothing to do with “health care”). Unfortunately, I am not aware of anything in this Bill that will fix any of the wrongs.

      I look forward to your response.

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  5. jc

    Next on the Socialistic agenda is Amnesty and Cap n Trade with a pinch more of Global Whining. Pelosi and her cronies will suck every last dime out of the hard working American people, give it all away to the free loading society, which will assure the Dems their cheap votes for the next hundred years. Amnesty will be the nail in the coffin…

    The New World Order is just warming up folks so be prepared and please don’t forget to thank Clinton & Bush Administrations for their participation.

    November will be huge! It will be our last chance to vote these clowns out of office DEM OR REP so make sure you’re there…

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    1. Fred the Protectionist

      “Next on the Socialistic agenda is Amnesty and Cap n Trade with a pinch more of Global Whining. ”

      And we can all thank the Libertarians for empowering the Socialists. Thank you Libertarians, they couldn’t have done it without you.

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  6. Dickie Wayne Snide

    Impeachment procedings along with prosecution proceedings should be brought on everybody within the Obama administration, and every congressman and congresswoman involved in passing this clear attempt to collapse the American and Global financial system, and the clear attempt to abolish the Constitution of the United States of America.
    Which is a direct violation of their oath of office to uphold and protect the constitution.

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  7. Bar Farkas

    time to take the god out of government! time for real freedom!!

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  8. Bar Farkas

    As much as I agree with Ron Paul his arguments about a “moral” bill are laughable. It’s just not consistent to be pro liberty, small gov., and legislate according to the bible. Freedom means freedom from the tyranny of god which is doing much more damage than anything the fed could do. Where is the outrage about the $1 trillion we spend every year for the military? That’s not paid for. If the gov. is going to shift and make it’s priority spending money on its’ own citizens then that’s a step in the right direction.

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  9. YRU

    What can we do? Why don’t we all reject health insurance all
    together and develop cooperatives like a HMO where we pay by cash. We could hire our own doctors and even buy hospitals. I mean I am not in debt and could afford health care if we only had to pay what my insurance company pays. As cooperative would negotiate with doctors etc to keep costs down. Our rejection of socialist health care will be like dumping tea into Boston bay.

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    1. Fred the Protectionist

      No, dumping tea into Boston bay would be like dumping tea in Boston bay.

      The Boston Tea Party was an act of protectionism.

      If the Boston Tea Party were an act of Libertarianism they wouldn’t have dumped the tea into the ocean, they would have stole it, and then sold it back with interest.

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  10. Todd

    Healthcare, Cap and Tax, Federal Reserve Act etc. These are all symptoms of a greater evil. America collectively has continued to ask God to stay out of our business. I believe God, with a heavy heart has listened. Our leaders for a century now have totaly disregarded our constitution to the point that I don’t think they realize it exists. If the Federal Reserve Act, which we all know was a conspiracy and totaly illegal cannot get repealed (It’s been nearly 100 years), then what makes anyone think that Obamacare will get repealed. The Federal Reserve Act has made the private banks of the Fed wealthier beyond belief, at the expense of our freedom. I aplaud Ron Paul for his valiant efforts to “End the Fed”, but we need more. will it take a Boston Masacre or a Lexington Masacre for the American People to wake up? I hope not. But people here and around the world have said for far to long “That could never happen”, yet since the Federal Reserve Act was signed the World has seen genocide and poverty like no other time. Please people, “wake up”. Pray for our country and leaders like Ron Paul. Read II Chronicles 7:14.

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  11. Thomas Michael, Jr.

    It’s all much bigger than health care! Combined with the immigration amnesty deal, the idea is to collapse the dollar. Why? So we can adopt the Amerodollar and create the North American Union. And why has the government built close to 800 detention camps across the U.S.? And why are U.N. troops in the U.S. now? And why are U.S. troops being sent overseas? Sounds crazy, but here goes…. The collapse of the dollar would create chaos –> the government declares martial law –> but American troops would not fire on American citizens–> but U.N. troops would—-> New World order opponents (read patriots) are taken by U.N. troops to these “detention camps” —> government creates another false or manmade crisis and magically becomes the savior! Search “detention camps.” Search “U.N. troops in U.S.” You can even find photos of U.N. vehicles being brought into the U.S. The research is easy and you’ll be shocked by what you find. The individual pieces sound ridiculous until the puzzle begins to take form. Have you stopped to consider this vitriolic debate over health care is merely a red herring to distract us from the real danger? Give it some serious thought before you write this off….

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  12. Disappointed and Dependent

    ALEX JONES WAS RIGHT! We can still be educated (inforwars.com).

    Obviously, many more will die for their country. Their plan is working, people are STILL SLEEPING. History does repeat. A war of some kind will ensue. Washington is waiting to hear from us and not through our pathetic excuse for representation. They will.


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  13. Iwant Liberty

    It is disconcerting to see America going down the socialist road that Europe and Canada have already traveled (I live in Canada under a socialist system of tax-funded medical health care). No one believes that Obamacare will result in lower taxes; global experience shows that socialized medicine only results in higher taxes for everyone AND a much lower level of service for everyone. The health care reform in Massachusetts has left a $300 million hole in their budget, and higher taxes will result. That is only a small sign of worse things to come. As Dr. Paul points-out, we need competition in medicine to bring the costs down. We need entrepreneurial doctors and businesses to be free to address the needs of the marketplace… not Big Brother!

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  14. Richard Acosta


    The American Medical Association (AMA) was founded in 1847 around two propositions: one, all doctors should have a “suitable education” and two, a “uniform elevated standard of requirements for the degree of M.D. should be adopted by all medical schools in the U.S.” [1] In the days of its founding AMA was much more open–at its conferences and in its publications–about its real goal: building a government-enforced monopoly for the purpose of dramatically increasing physician incomes. It eventually succeeded, becoming the most formidable labor union on the face of the earth.

    AMA’s initial drive to increase physician incomes was motivated by increasing competition from homeopaths (AMA allopaths use treatments–usually synthetic–that produce effects different from the diseases being treated while homeopaths use treatments–usually natural–that produce effects similar to those of the disease being treated). This competition did serious damage to the incomes of AMA allopaths. In the year before AMA’s founding, the New York Journal of Medicine stated that competition with homeopathy caused “a large pecuniary loss” to allopaths. [2] In the same issue, the dean of the school of medicine at the University of Michigan railed against competition because it made treating sickness “arduous and un-remunerative.” [3]

    Apart from reversing rapidly declining incomes, allopaths also wanted to rescue their public reputations, which quite reasonably suffered given their proficiency in killing patients through such crude practices as bloodletting (“exsanguination”) or mercury injections (poisoning). A few allopaths desired adulation normally reserved for star athletes and actors. The Massachusetts Medical Society opined in 1848 that physicians should be “looked upon by the mass of mankind with a veneration almost superstitious.” [4]

    Shut ‘em Down

    The curse of medical education is the excessive number of schools–Abraham Flexner, 1910.

    To accomplish the twin goals of artificially elevated incomes and worship by patients, AMA formulated a two-pronged strategy for the labor market for physicians. First, use the coercive power of the state to limit the practices of physician competitors such as homeopaths, pharmacists, midwives, nurses, and later, chiropractors. [5] [6] Second, significantly restrict entrance to the profession by restricting the number of approved medical schools in operation and thus the number of students admitted to those approved schools yearly. [7]

    AMA created its Council on Medical Education in 1904 with the goal of shutting down more than half of all medical schools in existence. (This is the Council having its 100th anniversary celebrated in Chicago this weekend.) In six years the Council managed to close down 35 schools and its secretary N.P. Colwell engineered what came to be known as the Flexner Report of 1910. The Report was supposedly written by Abraham Flexner, the former owner of a bankrupt prep school who was neither a doctor nor a recognized authority on medical education. Years later Flexner admitted that he knew little about medicine or how to differentiate between different qualities of medical education. Regardless, state medical boards used the Report as a basis for closing 25 medical schools in three years and reducing the number of students by 50% at remaining schools.

    Since AMA’s creation of the Council a century ago, the U.S. population (75 million in 1900, 288 million in 2002) has increased in size by 284%, yet the number of medical schools has declined by 26% to 123.[8] [9] In terms of admissions limits, the peak year for applicants at U.S. schools was 1996 at 47,000 applications with a limit of 16,500 accepted. [10] This works out to roughly 64% of applications rejected. [11] On a micro level, for the last six years the University of Alabama (hardly a beacon of prestige in the medical discipline) has averaged about 1,498 applicants per year with an average of about 194 accepted. This is about an 87% rejection rate. The sizes of the entering classes have been of course even smaller, averaging about 161.

    AMA would likely argue that there’s nothing necessarily wrong with very high rejection rates. This is correct, except for the fact that these rates are being applied to pools of candidates who are cream-of-the-crop in quality and have put themselves through a very costly admissions process. [12] Current admissions practices could still be justified by what Milton Friedman (1982, p. 153) refers to as a “Cadillac standard.” (Getting away from the pop-culture anachronisms of the 1960s, let’s say “Lexus standard” a la the government decides that every driver today deserves nothing less than Lexus quality.) Applied to health care, the benefits of a Lexus standard could supposedly offset the costs of rejecting many ostensibly qualified applicants.


    The first problem with asserting the existence of a Lexus standard in health care from very stringent admissions policies are the contradictions introduced by current racial and sexual preferences. The Center for Equal Opportunity found that at a sample of six medical schools, more than 3,500 white and Asian candidates were not admitted in spite of having higher undergraduate grades and MCAT scores than Hispanic and African-American applicants who were admitted in their place. The Center’s study didn’t touch on sex discrimination but undergraduate science professors indicate that it clearly exists as well. [13]

    The second blowout on our shiny Lexus would be the number of unnecessary/questionable procedures performed on patients every year. Ex-surgeon Julian Whitaker (1995) tirelessly rails against the excesses of angioplasty (PTCA), atherectomy (directional and rotational), and coronary bypass. [14] Whitaker states that, with few exceptions, all three procedures for heart-disease patients have been empirically shown to be utter failures in terms of solving short-term problems without creating long-term problems which are much worse.

    The first complete study of bypass effectiveness was the Veterans Administration Cooperative Study [15]. Between 286 patients who received bypass surgery and 310 who did not, the survival rate at the end of 3 years was 88% for the bypass group and 87% for the control group. In an 8-year follow-up to a second VACS study [16] among 181 low-risk patients, the bypass group had a much higher cumulative mortality rate (31.2%) compared to the non-surgery group (16.8%). This was among a group of low-risk patients to begin with.

    A Rand study [17] revealed that nearly 50% of bypass operations are unnecessary. Whitaker [18] notes that the number of bypass surgeries since this Rand study, which should have plummeted, has increased by more than 50%. While the death rate from heart disease declined from 355 per 100,000 in 1950 to 289 per 100,000 in 1990, the amount of bypass operations jumped from 21,000 in 1971 to 407,000 in 1991, a increase of more than 1,838%. [19] Whitaker states that laypersons are quick to attribute increases in life expectancy to surgery, but the credit clearly belongs to greater exercise and healthier diets.
    Other examples:

    180 patients with osteoarthritis of the knee were given arthroscopic débridement, arthroscopic lavage, or placebo surgery (skin incisions and simulated débridement). In two years of follow-up the surgery group reported no less pain or impaired joint function than the placebo group. Six placebo patients liked their fake surgery so much they wanted it performed on their other knee.[20] For other arthroscopies, knee surgeon Ronald Grelsamer, M.D., states that at some hospitals doctors are performing as many as “ten a week [where] nine are unnecessary.” [21]
    Jens Ivar Brox, M.D., in a Norwegian study compared the effects of spinal fusion surgery with non-surgical therapy for 64 patients with chronic lower-back pain and disc degeneration. The non-surgical treatment was as effective as surgery, but at a fraction of the cost with no complications.[22] With regard to fusions for lower back pain, Nortin Halder M.D., stated, “If this were a pill and I used it, I would probably lose my license and go to jail.” Nevertheless, there are about 125,000 fusion surgeries a year at $30,000 each bringing back surgeons a hefty yearly median income of $545,000.[23]
    Stuart Spechler, M.D., studied 247 patients with severe acid reflux in the 1980s and found that surgery was significantly more effective in improving symptoms than lifestyle changes and drugs. [24] These results reversed in the 1990s after the introduction of proton pump inhibitors (today’s Prevacid, Nexium). About 62% of surgery patients still needed drugs to control reflux and had no less incidences of esophageal cancer than non-surgery patients. [25] Mayo Clinic’s Yvonne Romero, M.D., is even more pessimistic, pointing out that in countries where surgery has been performed longer than the U.S. (e.g., Brazil), as much as 85% of surgeries fail after 15 years. Says Spechler, “When you look at data it is hard not to be biased against surgery.” Nevertheless, about 65,000 Nissen fundoplications are performed each year at a price of $10,000 each. [26]
    Hysterectomy (uterus removal) is the probably the best example of an often unnecessary surgery. While a necessity for uterine cancer patients, gynecologist Michael Broder, M.D., found that in a sample of about 500 women, about 70 shouldn’t have received the surgery for any reason whatsoever and about 350 hysterectomies had been performed without any diagnostic tests to determine if the surgery was appropriate in the first place. About 70 women with benign fibroids had their uteruses removed without first trying drugs or other treatments that could have been effective. [27]

    A final challenge to the Lexus standard is the number of accidental deaths occurring in U.S. hospitals every year. Harvard University’s Lucian Leape estimated that there are approximately 120,000 accidental deaths and 1,000,000 injuries in U.S. hospitals every year. [28] To understand what staggering figures these are, imagine a Boeing 777-200 with its maximum of 328 passengers crashing every day for an entire year with no survivors. This would add up to 119,720 deaths, still not as many as are killed through medical error in hospitals every year. UCLA Professor of Medicine Robert Brook, M.D., told the Associated Press, “The bottom line is we have a system that is terribly out of control. It’s really a joke to worry about the occasional plane that goes down when we have thousands of people who are killed in hospitals every year.” [29]

    Certainly not all accidental hospital deaths can be attributed to institutionalized AMA mischief. Errors by nurses, pharmacists, and sleep-deprived residents play a role as well. However, there’s also no doubt that AMA-backed restrictions against greater specialization have helped wreak their havoc over time as well. [30] A later study by Leape [31] showed that just the presence of a pharmacist on physician rounds reduced adverse drug reactions from prescribing errors by 66%. [32] [33] Despite some shortcomings, the U.S. system still has some of the finest physicians, surgeons, research, and facilities in the world. However, the best aspects of the system are due to whatever vestiges of market freedom still survive, not some illusory Lexus standard supposedly created by strict statist controls. [34]

    The Exceptional World of the Modern Physician

    AMA has built an impressive edifice, one that has completely insulated physicians from recessionary (“cyclical”) and until recently, technological (“structural”) unemployment. While decade in, decade out, recessions, depressions, consolidations, and (recently) outsourcing have dislocated millions of blue-collar, engineering, computer programming, and middle management employees from jobs and forced permanent career changes, physicians as a class have been almost completely immune. Unlike workers in most other industries, a competent, licensed physician with a clean record who remains unemployed despite months and months of search for work is unheard of in the U.S. [35]

    Restricting labor supply has markedly boosted incomes. Median yearly salaries for primary-care physicians are $153,000, for specialists $275,000. [36] Another more recent survey across many specialties and 3+ years of experience makes hospitalists relative paupers of the profession at $172,000 and spine surgeons at the high end raking in $670,000.

    Restricted supply aside, there’s certainly nothing wrong with competent physicians becoming fabulously wealthy at their craft and nothing about a free market that would ever preclude such. Indeed one of the worst transgressions of current system is allowing the most rude, incompetent, and stupid physicians (e.g., Clinton Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders who wanted public schools to teach first graders how to masturbate) to earn incomes relatively close to competent ones.

    Of course life is not a complete bowl of cherries for all physicians. Malpractice insurance premiums for some Ob/Gyns are now running as high as $160,000 per year. Some Ob/Gyns have been lucky to have their hospitals pick up the tab. Others have had to move to different states. No one would disagree with AMA that paying $160,000 in insurance premiums is outrageous.

    The problem is that AMA’s restriction of labor supply has made the problem worse at the margin than it otherwise would be. Plus, exactly how does a thoroughly rent-seeking organization such as AMA lecture malpractice attorneys on the adverse consequences of wealth redistribution? It can’t with any convincing credibility, thus it has no effective answer to some in the far Left either, who want to conscript physicians to provide infinite “free” care to them because they claim they have a “right” to it.

    Robots to the Rescue?

    Two recent articles on the Web show two divergent paths the U.S. health care system can take. A recent story on MSNBC reflects the worsening status quo. It was a report on a new robot (“robo-doc”) that roams hospital halls visiting patients in place of a physician (see photos). The robot is controlled from remote location by a physician. The device is an obvious implicit attempt to cope with the artificial scarcity of physicians. Most of the patients, instead of laughing the pathetic robot out of their wing, thought the idea was jim dandy. Presumably they couldn’t explain how the armless robot would resuscitate them if their conditions took a sudden turn for the worse.

    On the other hand, the great Ron Paul, M.D., has recently discussed the trend of cash-only practices which reject all insurance as well as Medicaid and Medicare. He profiles a Robert Berry, M.D., who charges only $35 for routine visits. (This is about half to a third of what I’m typically charged–with insurance at that–and yet my current doctor, whose income in one year exceeds what I make in five, is moving to another practice because she wants more money.) Cash-only practices of course do nothing to address physician supply, but some relief is better than none, especially when living in a clueless American public that thinks robo-docs represent actual progress in medicine.

    A happy 100th birthday to the Council on Medical Education…and for the sake of all our health, hopefully not too many more.

    A follow up article is posted at Real Medical Freedom

    Dale Steinreich, Ph.D., is an adjunct scholar of the Mises Institute, and contributor to AgainstTheCrowd.com. The author is indebted to Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr., for his incisive synopsis of AMA history in the June 1994 issue of Chronicles. Comments by economists L. Aubrey Drewry, Jr., Ph.D., Paul A. Cleveland, Ph.D., and Richard O. Beil, Ph.D., were of great value. dsteinreich@msn.com. Comment on the Blog.

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  15. Art

    It’s way past time to put our big borrower/big spender/big taxer government on a fixed income. Start with: (1.)Repeal the 16th Amendment and the Federal Reserve Act. (2.)Establish a simple and single, flat and fair system of taxation with a permanent ceiling of 10%(pattern it after the biblical tithe). Locally elected tax authority (within county government and with set term limit) collects the 10% of personal or corporate gain (no other taxes). State elected tax authority (with set term limit) collects 10% of that locally collected tax. Federal elected tax authority (with set term limit) collects 10% of the state collected tax. (3.)Set term limits for all elected and appointed government positions.

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  16. Robert

    people better wake up





    wake up america is BROKE

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  17. dryheaves Daily

    I dont care anymore // lets all go down together eating chocolate pudding

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    1. Floridian

      That’s the objective: demoralize into hopelessness anyone who cares enough to resist.

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    It is FAR MORE than just not “sounding right” it’s SICK and flat out EVIL!!

    Of course this is all being allowed to happen for various reasons but this is what happens when you have sick, satan worshiping, greedy psychos in politics who think that they’re superior to everyone else and could care LESS about you, your children or your LIFE. They see you an nothing more than “Goyim” or ‘useless eater’ that is doing nothing but taking up space on THEIR PLANET and they think that only they have the right to live on the earth and don’t want the rest of the 6.7 billion people on it at all!!

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  19. Johnny

    Here we go again. The “Greenbergs” and the “Goldman Sachs” family are going to come out winning again. This script is getting very old people. The rich get richer from the poor getting poorer. That just doesn’t sound right at all. Ron Paul for President!!

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  20. Eddy M

    Unfortunately, the Ron Paul camp won’t drop their unconstitutional religious agenda, and so the young voters will keep them from winning, because to some people their freedom is worth more than their money.

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    1. SS

      I haven’t heard about this so-called unconstitutional religious agenda.

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    2. Observor

      What on earth are you talking about? I think you came to the wrong site LOL

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      1. Bottomline

        I was not fooled by the Obama campaign! “John Dingbat is my congressman and no I did not vote for him nor Obama! He crafted this terrible health care bill with this JOKER in the white house, Pelosi, and Reid to force us to buy this misguided health care. I am very much concern about how it’s going to have a negative impact to our country and our people.

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  21. Bottomline

    The mastermind behind this health care bill is my congressman who served 55 years in elected office, and is a Democrat! I live in an area where Obama won overwelmingly with voters! It’s very liberal and there are two college towns.

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  22. John David

    This is the beginning of the end if Americans do not stop it. The reform could be in Tort law to stop greedy lawyers from running up the cost of health care. But, of course, all the voters are greedy and unscrupulous lawyers…Get the muskets out boys. John

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  23. Prentis Goodwin

    After we the people finish voting for congress this term
    Ron Paul will be the only man left standing

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    1. Lyn

      I think you give the American people too much credit. Those “we the people” voted for this nightmare. Good luck.

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  24. Libertarian777

    I think this story sums up politics in general: (modern version of ant and grasshopper).


    The grasshoppers will always vote for any government bill that takes more away from the ants, until eventually there is nothing left for anyone.

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    1. Ryan

      Clever story.
      I agree, it looks like we’re all going to be sleeping in the snow come Winter.

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    2. Lyn

      The bigger the parasites become, the sooner the living organism dies. Maybe that’s something that should be put on a billboard under the word SOCIALISM.

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  25. Jamie Bird

    So, I am a tad confused on all of this. Can someone give me a link to WHAT exactly all of this means?

    Is it rationed care?
    Obviously, the government does not do anything financially well, but just how much higher will my premiums be? Will I have to wait longer at the DRs office? Will I still get to choose my DR? Will this be another program bankrupt in 20 years? Will there be ANY reason left to work, whatsoever? LOL

    Will specialists fall by the wayside because government mandating pay?

    I have so many questions and cannot seem to get the just of this bill! HELP!

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    1. Libertarian777

      Jamie… there is a lot in it, but the main points that I see are:
      1. no exclusion on pre-existing conditions (i.e. if you have e.g. asthma they can’t deny you coverage)
      2. everyone has to buy healthcare or you get fined

      As Rand Paul has mentioned in his moxnews interview, this bill is covering only one aspect… ‘access’ to health insurance (note, access to health INSURANCE, not necessarily health CARE).

      There is nothing in the bill that controls or pays for the COSTS of this bill (and no the Medicare price controls are not going to keep actual costs down.)

      The reason everyone talks about ‘rationing’ is that with an additional 40+ million people buying health insurance, but costing more overall than their premiums contribute, results in losses to hospitals, doctors etc.
      Eventually either the government has to make up the difference (via deficit spending or more taxes) or they reduce the amount of care everyone can get (via rationing).

      Since its politically unpalatable to raise taxes, rationing is going to be the end result (then again, politically its acceptable to increase the national debt to infinity… $14 trillion ceiling right now and its going to get raised again later this year).

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      1. Lyn

        I would only add that as you see the costs skyrocket and the system become unmanageable, you will see people being excluded for pre-existing conditions, along with people being denied end-of-life care. Most of those who wanted this free lunch will feel differently when it’s them or their children or their parents being excluded. Life has a way of spitting in one’s face, and today while they may be healthly, tomorrow could leave them with a spinal injury or comatose with from a brain injury in a car accident. Obama’s Death Panel may not find them worth spending the money on regardless of their age. This is something I don’t think many supporters of this bill have thought about. In the government’s eyes, you don’t have to be elderly to be expendable.

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    2. prsmith

      > So, I am a tad confused on all of this. Can someone give me a
      > link to WHAT exactly all of this means?
      > Is it rationed care?

      It is incredibly frustrating to know that there are tens of millions of people like this one who have no clue what’s been happening for the past year. I can’t help but wonder what hole they just crawled out of!

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      1. Jamie

        So, you are saying it is not okay to be confused when there are SO many talking heads saying different things?

        One party is saying one thing, the other party is saying another. It gets confusing to know what was changed from previous versions of the bill. I have an idea about the passing of healthcare, obviously. What I do not have a clue about is why you cannot seem to find just ONE answer from either side.
        By the way, no rock hidden under…just no time to sit and watch CSPAN all day…I have a job!

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  26. Curtiss

    Ron Paul hits the nail on the head again! This bill is horrible! An unnecessary bill passed to provide health care to the small percentage who still are uninsured by burdening all taxpayers for generations to come.
    Wouldn’t the increase of taxes decrease the benefit of being insured under this bill?

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  27. Jason

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    1. Van Wilder

      Its not free buddy… If you listened to Ron you would know that someone has to pay for it. That someone is the U.S. taxpayer who is working for a living. Not the slugs who are sucking the life of our once great country. There is no such thing as free healthcare. Ron Paul is the only answer i wish i could help and do something, im looking for a light and im running for it when i do see it.

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    2. mark golomb

      it’s “Dr. Paul” to you. and don’t you think a doctor would know what is best for the people of this country?

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    3. Matt

      You have obviously read only the brochure and not The Bill. There are over 20 changes to the IRS tax code included in this bill (much over 20 I’d guess, but I started losing count). It is certainly not free.

      Something that costs billions of dollars now doesn’t magically become free after a law passes.

      Here’s the basics: taxes go up either by penalty for non-compliance or a straight 5%-9% tax hike based on your income level. That “new” tax money gets filtered through the hands of a newly created Secretary and board of directors in charge of government-mandated/sponsored/run health care. It then makes its way to compliant insurers and providers to pay the normal (what it currently costs) fees of service. It also gets dished out as tax-credits to lower income earners so that they can purchase INSURANCE at a discounted rate. There are also hooks in there that allow the tax rates to increase automatically (that’s magic) as the cost of insurance rises after 2014.

      Bottom line: not only is it far from free, but it costs MORE than we pay now. The only benefit is to roughly 6% of Americans who get discounted INSURANCE premiums thanks to the IRS stealing/taking/taxing it from the 94% of remaining citizens. Take no solace in the high earner thresholds either, as those will come down rapidly as the sky-rocketing costs of health care continue to rise.

      This is a bill that creates and raises taxes to offer discounted insurance to a small number of Americans. It saddles all tax-paying Americans with the currently out-of-control system while it offers no solutions to the cost of care itself. Health insurance IS NOT health care.

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      1. Libertarian777

        actually, for the next 2 years while the federal government pays for it (until it passes to the states), the money IS magically created from thin air.

        The Federal Reserve just prints green slips of paper, and gives it to the US Treasury that prints pink slips of paper. Ad infinitum.

        Magic, free money for all! And no consequences! (except $14trillion national debt, 97% loss of purchasing power, $3/gal gas but congress doesn’t feel that pain).

        They could do it with the $700billion TARP. They could do it with the $150 billion stimulus, and the 787 billion stimulus and the $15billion jobs bill. Money is free!

        Congress should have added in the bill, that all members of Congress will now have to purchase their own health insurance from this same market place that they have specified will be created by this bill.

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    4. Lyn

      You are just one of the reasons that Ron Paul, nor anyone like him, will ever see the White House. Let me guess, you voted for Obama or McCain? Bottom line, nobody owes you anything and healthcare isn’t a right. Apparently you don’t care that nationalized healthcare will bankrupt the country as welfare has been doing for years as well. Somebody has to work and somewhere other than the government just to keep up with it all. Socialism DOESN’T work. It takes from someone else to give to another (which doesn’t provide them with any incentive to provide for themselves) and the person whom it’s taken from will eventually quit working because there’s no point in doing so.

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  28. Bottomline

    It is not us that will benefit from Obamacare! It will be the Government, The IRS, & the insurance companies that will still be winners.

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  29. Anonymous

    The very idea of government-sponsored health care at a time like this defies common sense. Needless to say, we cannot fund any more welfare programs when we have a 13 trillion dollar deficit to take care of.

    The unfortunate passage of this bill will only speed up the economic collapse, and not only will we face national bankruptcy, but a world-wide cataclysmic economic collapse will soon follow.

    Too many are ignorant and do not look at the underlying factors of the healthcare crisis, let alone look at common sense.

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    1. Sinnie

      I believe Obama wants to economically collapse this country on purpose so to create world government and new world currency and the way that he is doing right now is the best way to get this agenda done, including weakening our military so to fit perfectly into the equation.

      Obama and his croonies hate this country, the free market, the capitalism and the pursuit of happiness. If one asks “if they hate this country so much why don’t they just go live somewhere else?”; the point is, to best to destroy a society is to destroy it from within and they are doing it right now.

      We The People keep saying “Don’t they know the stupidity of what they are doing is destroying the country?” The answer is “YES THEY DO KNOW” that is why they are doing it because they have the AGENDA to completely destroy this country so they can restore it back up as a completely different country, the country that they want it to be, either Sociolist, Communist or Maxist who knows? But at the end it won’t be the same America we knew.

      And where is OMMON SENSE in this? The answer is there is no Common Sense with the people who are supporting them because the SELF INTEREST overrides the Common Sense; there are two types of them:
      1 – The lower end group of people who believe that they have the right to everything in life and government should provide for it which called the ENTITLEMENT group.
      2 – The upper end group of people who gain more power and money from the system.

      At the end the COMMON SENSE people like us are the one who will be forced to pick up the tabs and pay for it. But the good thing right now is that the people are waking up and fighting back and we must keep fighting do anything you can do to help to get our country back by getting involved with different patriotic groups whichever suits you best; we can’t fight these people just in discussions alone; take actions and get involved.

      Another big problem that we all are facing right now is AMNESTY they might do it the way they did with HC. If they got this passed then in 2012 Obama will automically get 11+millions new voters for him and we might get another extra 4 more of Obama and also the Dems might be able to recover their majority back in both Houses from the lost in 2010. And since we already knew that these people are lawless, they will trash the CONSTITUTION and might try to manipulate to get rid of the presidential term limit from 2 terms to indefinite just like US Supreme Court until he dies or retires; it is not impossible and this is what we should take it seriously. I would never think what could possibly happen to this country two years ago; if Obama manage to get the second term then within the next seven anything is possible. I don’t mean to scare you but we have to be realistic, knowing who we are dealing with, we have to fight hard to make sure that this will never happen.

      By the way, some might say “not all comminist country is bad, look at China, they are prospered to the point that even America owes them big time.” If anybody interest on the Communist China, just ask the question, I’ll answer that.

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  30. Van Wilder

    I love how they slid this through during sunday evening when all the protestors had gone home. I heard a report that Nancy Pelosi turned around and looked bewildered when she saw the crowd before she went in to vote. Im disgusted as an american and i need to find another way to fight for whats right. I believe i have the freedom to not pay for someone elses lazy ass if i choose. Socialist banking, education, and healthcare… Am i missing anything? How can I as one man do anything against the machine of governement intrusion?

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  31. Lon Zieger

    Ron Paul, I’m with you all the way!

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  32. J1nz0

    Thanks to Obama, the USA are now adopting the sad European political model… A model based on public expense, Big Governement, inflation and, obviously, inefficiency (I am Italian, I have a very exaustive knowledge of all the kind of problems connected to a Public Health system).
    Probably liberals think that forcing young Americans to bear a debt of thousand dollars per person is better than paying a private insurance. Moreover, they simply ignore the principles of a real Free Market… But that was clear.

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  33. Elevic Pernis

    This is simply lame. America will bring down the world with it. Go Ron Paul!

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  34. Fred the Protectionist

    I’m going to use a tactic Libertarians use (and liberals I hear), quote the Declaration of Independence in a general way, like it is law:

    Hey, we got the right to life, liberty, and persuit of happiness!

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    1. Ryan

      If you watched the video you heard Ron Paul say, ” however, we don’t have a right to health care”. Someone has to pay for it. The liberals think stealing from others is acceptable. The Libertarians do not. As Individualists, Libertarians take the ” pull youself up by by your own boot straps” approach… And rightly so! If we would just keep the government out of the way of business the cost would be affordable to all.

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        Hey it says it perfectly clear, “Life Liberty and Persuit of Happiness”, that means health care is a right!

        Unless you want people to die, where is the right to life? Unless you want people to suffer, where is the happiness? Do you ignore the FOUNDING DO-CU-MENTS?!

        (Gosh I love using Libertarian tactics against Libertarians)

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        1. longshotlouie

          More socialism, Fled?

          Why do you hate America?


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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            C’mon why won’t you admit my tactical (and strategic) superiority.

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          2. longshotlouie

            I can settle for the amusement of watching you convince yourself.

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    2. mark golomb

      replace “pursuit of hapiness” with “property”

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        Yes I’ve heard Libertarians are very “property” focused, to the point where they think a person can be ‘property”.

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        1. longshotlouie

          Fled prefers to be government property.

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    3. Libertarian777

      Fred… at least quote the Declaration correctly.

      It’s PURSUIT not persuit.

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  35. Ryan

    This is a catastrophie in the making. These lunatic fringe Liberals will be the death of us all.

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    1. Fred the Protectionist

      Totally agree on those “lunatic fringe liberals” rooning things.

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      1. longshotlouie

        You mean Andy Rooning?

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