66 responses to “Rand Paul’s Patriots’ Day Money Bomb”

  1. jhon

    Audit the Fed cosponsor push: http://www.chooseliberty.org/push-ts1.aspx?pid=ts4a

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  2. Lindsey

    If you are going to support going to war because of incidents like 9-11 then you need to have the Congress vote to declare war on a country. You can’t declare war on an idea and kill people for their ideas. Rudy is an idiot and thinks we can kill people for their ideas and let people kill unborn children.

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Congress did declare war on “a country”s.

      If there is any doubt, Congress can always remove funding, it’s in the Constitution.

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  3. Tyler Williamson

    If we didn’t ‘empower’ China and adhered to a protectionist policy, prices for our domestic goods would skyrocket. I don’t know about you, but I enjoy being able to purchase relatively cheap electronics. Ignorant protectionists are economically illiterate.

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    1. Dfens

      So it’s ok with you that China uses slave labor just so long as it means you are able to buy one of their crappy TV’s for what you consider to be a small amount of money? Wow, you’re a real humanitarian. I guess it doesn’t matter what happens to them as long as you get yours? Now there’s the vision for America Ronny and Randy love to promote.

      Why don’t you ask someone who has had their job outsourced to a poor 3rd world country like Communist Red China or India how many “cheap” TV’s they’ve bought lately? Oh wait, you don’t give a damn about them, because it’s all about you. Ronny and Randy must be so proud.

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      1. Matt

        Using our government to force Americans to pay more for Chinese goods is not an effective counter to Communist China forcing its own citizens to work at below market rates. By the way – the mechanism for doing this is currency devaluation (and legal wage ceilings to a lesser degree in China), something we see in the U.S. as well, and will see a lot more of in the future.

        Protectionism is a misnomer, it is nothing more than forced trade reduction. It is sold to the public as a mechanism to protect jobs and thereby increase the public’s income. But national wealth is not income!

        Wealth is the aggregate of goods and services produced by or purchased by a people. So, by artificially raising prices protectionist governments reduce their people’s wealth and in the aggregate reduce human wealth production. This is the economic failure of Mercantilism (protectionism). Furthermore, there is a grave moral failure of mercantilism, and that comes with the reduction in property rights. When you create the power to pick winners and losers in international markets, and then make that power political, you set the stage for war and conflict. This is why our founding fathers warned against interventionist policies and giving the government-of-the-day the power to disrupt the fruits of private labor. It creates resentments that drive people to war.

        A far better way to deal with low price foreign goods is to use them to increase the wealth of a nation, rather than decrease its wealth. Availability of low price supply can drive derivative manufacturing or production. If China is selling low price steel, the answer is not to artificially increase steel prices and destroy efficient steel production, but to switch a portion of domestic production from producing raw steel to fabricating finished steel goods, for instance. The latter is an example of productive efficiency that increases overall wealth, whereas mercantilist protectionism forces a reduction in efficiency, destroying wealth.

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          Libertarian say: “But national wealth is not income!”

          Yes it is. You free-traders think national wealth is how many slaves you own. Adam Smith thinks national wealth is it’s ‘free’ labor force.

          Libertarian say: “So, by artificially raising prices protectionist governments reduce their people’s wealth and in the aggregate reduce human wealth production. ”

          Wrong, imported goods are more expensive and of lesser quality then American goods. Why do you hate America?

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          1. Matt

            No – income is not wealth you goof. Food, shelter, clothing, automobiles, finished goods such as tools, factories and machinery that are used to make these goods, etc., along with various services, are wealth.

            Mercantilism destroys wealth destruction by artificially increasing price over and above cost, or by forcing efficient producers to destroy capital to subsidize inefficient production.

            So you want to destroy access for Americans to all the things we have to maintain our standards of living. And you say I hate America? Ok Mr. Orwell – time to go back to your street corner proselytizaton where sensible people can ignore you.

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          2. Fred the Protectionist

            Libertarian say: “No – income is not wealth you goof. Food, shelter, clothing, automobiles, finished goods such as tools, factories and machinery that are used to make these goods, etc., along with various services, are wealth.”

            no, that’s mercantilism. Man you Libertarians need some serious deprogramming from all that propaganda.

            Adam Smith preached labor, quality of labor, labor makes a nation wealthy like a middle class.

            Mercantilists preached “getting” stuff. Stuff like “Food, shelter, clothing, automobiles, finished goods such as tools, factories and machinery that are used to make these goods, etc.” Gold…Silver…

            Adam Smith wrote a book called, “On the Wealth of Nations,” not, “On the Wealth of a Person.”

            »crosslinked«

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        2. 1111cb

          so what happens when a crisis happens in our supply chain in one of these cheap less reliable countries?

          We have outsourced a key component of our smart bombs to China.

          We are shutting down family farms in our country- The Midwest bread basket- they did a survey of the stores- its all filled with produce from overseas and not local because the graineries and shipping organizations won’t take orders from small farms.

          Many drugs/vaccines are recalled are run periodic shorrtages by defects in manufacture or “supply problems”

          So something like H1N1 scares( I realize it was not legit- but could have been)- almost shuts our border to Mexico- but wait- that’s a problem because all our clorox and crutial ventilator parts are made there- so can’t shut the border.

          Volcano shuts off airflights and shipping from Europe-

          Mideast where we get oil has some instability and our Military which has very fuel inefficient vehicles is shut down.

          So how does getting a cheap TV in the short run make us a wealthier more stable country? help me out. What is real wealth?

          Oh and as others point out- the products are often contaminated from China and poorly made. I “love” flying now knowing the parts are made in China and that they keep finding defects in installed parts.

          If people want to buy from overseas markets fine- but lets keep information open about its source so we can make choices and I want my National Security and food supply based in the USA.

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          1. Dfens

            I design military aircraft. We used to build them in the factory where I work. Now we just assemble the parts for these planes as they come in from first one 3rd world communist hell hole and then another. We got rid of most of the blue collar guys in the process. Now I see them working in the local Walmart or Home Depot. Some of the finest craftsmen in the airplane business, a damn waste of talent and a fine thank you for their service to their country. Only now are many of my engineering colleagues figuring out that our jobs are just as quickly outsourced as theirs were. People like Ronny, Randy, and their supporters should be left to collect their “reward” for their “free trade” policies. Unfortunately my children would get the same reward. That’s what makes it a topic worth discussing.

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          2. SS

            I don’t see anyone on this thread arguing against you and the problems that you point out. The argument is about causation.

            Everyone here seems to recognize that the so-called ‘Free Trade Agreements’ were nothing more than a selling out of the American middle class and the working poor.

            We have two solutions being discussed here. One calls for government intervention in trade, but in a different form than is now being practiced. The other side is calling for government to get out of the way.

            Only one of these arguments has logic, history, and facts.

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          3. Dfens

            The problem is, SS, what you are advocating by supporting Ron and Rand Paul is much worse than those free trade agreements. Their problem with the free trade agreements was not that they opened our markets too much with to few verifiable guarantees of trade reciprocity, the Paul’s, along with the rest of the libertarians, believe that the neocon free trade agreements did not open our markets fast enough. They do not agree there should be ANY reciprocity in opening foreign markets to our goods. They believe in opening our markets to what they call “free trade” by unilaterally eliminating all tariffs on foreign produced goods regardless of whether or not any foreign country follows suit.

            These libertarian “free market” ideals are so extreme that most people have a hard time even comprehending them. Many of the Paul’s followers think, “oh, they are against NAFTA, CAFTA, the WTO, these are my kind of people.” They never stop to analyze why the Paul’s are against these things, nor do they realize what the Paul’s are for is many times WORSE than the agreements that have already decimated our middle class.

            To throw open our markets by unilaterally eliminating all domestic tariffs would be cultural suicide. It would destroy our middle class in such a sudden and catastrophic manner as to start massive rioting such as we see now in Greece since their induction into the European Union, which essentially did to them what the Paul’s are advocating for our economy. How can any of you in good conscience advocate this, Ron and Rand included? It won’t work. It has never worked. It is not a principle upon which this country was founded. It’s national suicide!

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          4. fred the protectionist

            Notice how the Libertarians have recently disowned FTA’s. Libertarians were all for the FTA’s in the 1990′s, before the jobs/dollar were destroyed.

            Flip Floppers.

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          5. fred the protectionist

            “To throw open our markets by unilaterally eliminating all domestic tariffs would be cultural suicide. It would destroy our middle class in such a sudden and catastrophic manner as to start massive rioting such as we see now in Greece since their induction into the European Union, which essentially did to them what the Paul’s are advocating for our economy. How can any of you in good conscience advocate this, Ron and Rand included?”

            I wonder how many Anarchists are masturbating now.

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      2. Dfens

        Oh yeah, the founding fathers hated tariffs, that’s why it was the primary means of taxation provided to fund the federal government. Not to confuse anyone with facts or anything.

        Section 8 – Powers of Congress – The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States

        So I guess when Communist Red China dumps steel on our market what we really need to do to stick it to them is machine parts out of steel, per Matt’s delusion above. But wait! Our machinsts make a middle class wage. Theirs make subsistance wages. Our machinists work in clean, safe, well ventilated shops – for now, until Ronny and Randy have their way. Theirs work in crappy hell holes and most are lucky if they’re only missing digits and not entire limbs. But oh yeah, as soon as the Chinese start dumping their crappy, guess-what-it’s-made-from steel on our markets we should just abandon our steel industry and start making stuff from their steel.

        Heck, what could possibly go wrong? It’s not like we use steel in weapons or guns. It’s not like it’s a strategic resource. Sure, let’s let the Communist Chinese destroy our steel industry. That will lead to peace. Trust comrade Matt, he would never lie to you.

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        1. Matt

          Of course, I never said the founding fathers hated tariffs, you did. What I said was that the founding fathers warned against political interventionism, which leads to wars and destroys wealth on a mass scale.

          Not to confuse anyone with facts or anything.

          Now I bet our founding fathers would hate your tariffs, since they protect special interests, and are not limited to providing for the general welfare. Ahhhh, but you big Government types love to avoid that little pinch don’t you?

          Oh – and by referring to people who want to drastically reduce the influence of government, allow people to dispose of their property as they wish, and return our government to its legitimate scope – as Communists, really makes you look stupid and easy to ignore.

          Words are things that have generally accepted meanings – try using them.

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          1. Dfens

            Yeah, the founding fathers would hate to see a tariff on steel that is strategically important for the production of guns and other weapons. I’m sure they’d think that was just so very strange. Words do have meanings, though. You’re right on top of that one, Webster. When you advocate for the destruction of a strategically important industry I’m sure there’s a word for people like you and your buddies Ronny and Randy.

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          2. Fred the Protectionist

            The first major Act, the first Congress, in the first years in the United States, was pass a Tariff.

            hehe. Free Traders are stoopid.

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        2. Matt

          Second, either their steel is crappy, or it is just as good as ours but lower cost. It’s not both.

          Crappy products are not going to compete with good products, for anyone who needs good products. Obviously. So your implied disasters of switching to steel finishing based on cheap steel imports is another violation of rational thought. Either they will do the job, or they won’t. If they will do the job and are low cost, it is to our benefit to use them to reduce the cost of finished goods.

          Only in government where know-nothings sit around and use irrational arguments to convince each other that the sky is about to fall if we don’t pass laws, do your ‘concerns’ make any sense.

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            Last time I checked buddy, imports are of such low quality, some foreign countries resort to weakening their currency, using slave labor, and rebating their exports.

            Why do you hate American labor? Why do you hate American products? What did America ever do to you? Were you raped by America once?

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          2. Dfens

            Chinese steel couldn’t possibly be crappy but enough cheaper than US steel to knock it out of the market. Nooo. That would never happen. I’m guessing someone hasn’t been to Walmart lately.

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          3. Fred the Protectionist

            “Chinese steel couldn’t possibly be crappy”

            No, we’ll have to wait 20-50 years for the bridges to start falling down cause some mineral fell into the batch or something.

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          4. Dfens

            Hold on there, Fred. You know Chinese products are never contaminated. After all, where would we be without all that crappy drywall they sold to us to rebuild with after Katrina and that host of hurricanes that hit the Southeast a few years back? Heck, until we started importing that crap, I didn’t even know copper wires could grow hair like a dog.

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    2. Fred the Protectionist

      Libertarian say: “If we didn’t ‘empower’ China and adhered to a protectionist policy, prices for our domestic goods would skyrocket. I don’t know about you, but I enjoy being able to purchase relatively cheap electronics. Ignorant protectionists are economically illiterate.”

      Behold, the free-traders think American labor and American products are inferior and overpriced.

      Free traders hate American citizens.

      Free traders hate American products.

      And the price of imported electronics have gone up, not down.

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      1. Matt

        Behold – the “Protectionist” wants to destroy Americans’ wealth. While claiming that those who want to increase American wealth are un-American.

        Well, nothing less is to be expected from someone whose big Government ideology is more important than freedom and prosperity.

        The absurdity of your rhetoric is starting to stink up the place.

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          You Free Traders have failed.

          Not only are foreign products inferior to American ones, but they are more expensive; and you devalued the dollar internationally risking a collapse; and you strengthened our enemies; and you perpetuated Global Communism forever; and you turned the US government over to Socialists and Green-Commies; and you are balkanizing America.

          Man Free Traders just suck hardcore.

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    3. Bottomline

      Just reading from traitors like Fred and Dfens makes my stomach turn ache. Because their poisonous baloney is bad for our health.

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      1. Dfens

        I only wish I could be as good for your health as the drywall your buddies in Communist Red China make is for the health of unfortunate Americans who bought it. I’d be happy to do the same to your bank account as your comrades are doing to my countrymen too. Maybe Ronny and Randy could go to Florida and tell those who have been poisoned out of their homes about the wonders of unilateral “free trade”. I’m sure they’d love to “discuss” this subject with them.

        “Based on the scientific work to date, removing the problem drywall is the best solution currently available to homeowners,” said Inez Tenenbaum, chairwoman of the safety commission.

        Authorities began investigating problem drywall in 2008, when homeowners in Florida complained of foul odors seeping from their walls and corrosion in their air conditioners, mirrors, electrical units and jewelry.

        Although officials initially found no problem with the Chinese-made material, studies eventually showed that the corrosion could be linked to drywall from China. The problematic drywall emits hydrogen sulfide at rates 100 times the rates of non-Chinese samples, the commission said.

        Some homeowners complained of health problems, including coughing, nosebleeds, sinus infections and other throat, nose and lung irritation. – LA Times

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  4. Liberty Planet

    Wow, all of the anti-Rand Paul comments here are creepy. I would expect this type of garbage on Digg.com but not on RonPaul.com

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    1. Ryan

      Don’t worry, it’s only from a few guys that come here saying those kinds of comments. They fear and hate freedom, liberty, and the Constitution. So they come hear to spew their venom at everything Ron and Rand Paul stand for. It’s just a couple of wacko nut cases. Let them howl at the moon if they want to, few people are listening to them.

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    2. Mark

      Thank God for Ron Paul. Im so tired of watching republicans try to marginalize Ron and his message. No matter how well he does and how well his message resonates with people – they never want to give him credit. But it just goes to show – if the message resonates and has validity – it can stand on its own and in spite of the objections of the establishment – it will only grow in strength.

      Thank you Ron

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    3. 1111cb

      discussion about a concern does not equate with anti a candidate. No one candidate is 100 % perfect in every issue. Blind trust to any leader is unwise.

      When we stop questioning, we abdicate our freedom, and we allow power to take its natural course back to the way things are now.

      So liking Rand Paul as a candidate does not mean I agree on everything he says. That is why we have balance of power.

      So I love the idea of the money bomb- because- the power is in our hands- money is power. And as long as money flows from the people to Mr Paul- he will remain accountable to the people not lobbyists and therefore be the best candidate.

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  5. longshotlouie

    Come on, 100g!

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  6. Watt Chang

    maybe we should advertise for more trolls

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  7. longshotlouie

    The donation graph is headed through the roof.
    Good to see

    Also noticing that the traffic around here is multiplying since the trolls started there disinfo campaign after Ron Paul’s CPAC victory. The trolls have cranked it up since SRLC and national polls have shown Dr. Paul to be rising in prominence.

    The harder they bang, the higher Paul’s numbers go. Thank a troll.

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  8. Dfens

    A money “bomb” is exactly the right thing to call it. If you send Randy or Ronny any money, this is what they want to turn the United States into. In fact, they’re already well on their way to doing this:

    One employee told the [National Labour Committee] (NLC): ‘We are like prisoners. It seems like we live only to work – we do not work to live. We do not live a life, only work.’

    The NLC’s report included an account from one worker whose job consisted entirely of sticking selfadhesive rubber feet to the bottom of Microsoft computer mice.

    But the monotony of sitting or standing for 12 hours, applying foot after foot to mouse after mouse, was not the worst of the worker’s testimony.

    It was the militaristic management and sleep deprivation that affected the worker most. ‘I know I can choose not to work overtime, but if I don’t work overtime then I am stuck with only 770 Chinese yuan (£72.77p) per month in basic wages,’ the worker said.

    ‘This is not nearly enough to support a family. My parents are farmers without jobs. They also do not have pensions.
    ‘I also need to worry about getting married, which requires a lot of money. Therefore, I still push myself to continue working in spite of my exhaustion.

    ‘When I finish my four hours of overtime, I’m extremely tired. At that time, even if someone offered me an extravagant dinner, I’d probably refuse. I just want to sleep.’

    Charles Kernaghan, executive director of the NLC, said: ‘It sounded like torture – the frantic pace on the assembly line, same motion over and over for the 12 hours or more of work they did.’ – Daily Mail

    Randy and Ronnie are “free traders”. They want us to unilaterally eliminate all tariffs so we can “compete” with countries like Communist Red China. This is exactly how we will “compete”, we will become just like China. We already have begun the process. We live to work now. We put in far more hours at work than our parents did thanks entirely to the “free trade” policies the libertarian corporatists sold to the Republicrats. 2 Bush’s and a Clinton have sent us well down that road, and a vote or a dollar for Ronny and Randy will definitely seal the deal.

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    1. Ryan

      Why is it that every post you make has the word China in it?
      And to make it even more repulsive, you always make the ridiculous and completely contradictory claim that libertarians want us all to live like the Chinese.

      Fact:
      The Chinese government is Communist.
      Libertarians are not Communists.
      Communists are far left philosophically.
      Libertarians are far right philosophically.

      Do you actually think you are fooling anyone with your daily dosage of fallacious reasoning?
      Try a little honest disagreement once in awhile. Not that you will have any success that way either, but at least it won’t be so repetatively fallacious.

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      1. Dfens

        I’m glad you recognize that the Chinese are Communists, Ryan. They also happen to be protectionists. Unless you believe that Communism is a better economic system than capitalism, that might lead you to believe protectionism is a good thing. I mean, their economy has grown in double digit percentages for nearly all of the last 20 years. The “global recession” for them was a mere 8% growth in GDP. It must have been really rough for them.

        I can’t wait until we get to experience the true joy of Ronny and Randy’s unilateral elimination of all tariffs. Then we can leave our markets open to any and all foreign trade manipulations. After all, remember what your dear leader has said about how destructive protectionism is to an economy.

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        1. SS

          Your Bud Freddie told us that protectionism is a great thing.
          Take it up with him.

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        2. gander

          the chinese are not communists. they are also not a people’s republic, they are just a bunch of cockroaches. i am free trade for western nations but not for china, i am glad that they abort all of their girls. but there is no need not to take advantage of the situation. the lack of girls is causing a surge in homosexual relations. selling gay play toys to the chinese could make a lot of money.

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        3. Ryan

          So let’s see if we can untangle your web of contradiction.

          First, you go on and on about how under Ron Paul’s policies, “we will become just like China”, clearly wrong, but implying that’s a bad thing… which it would be if it were true.

          Then you say China is a protectionist nation as well, proclaiming, “protectionism is a good thing”… therefore China is a good thing.

          Clearly you are saying, “Ron Paul is like China = Bad”, and, “China is Protectionist = Good”.
          Therefore, China = Bad and China = Good.
          So which is it?

          … Don’t tell us. We already know the answer. You are a Communist trying to clutter the internet with mass confusion so you can keep your insane agenda in place as it is today.
          … Not going to happen, Ofens. We’re taking back our country, like it or not. Freedom will reign, and corrupted Communists will be poor once again.
          America will become a booming Industrial nation once again.
          And China will collapse under its own insane policies again.

          Ron Paul, 2012!

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        4. Matt

          You are really sounding like a Clown.

          The global recession was easy for the Chinese because they did not have 12 trillion dollars in debt, did not have banks that were leveraged up 100 trillion dollars in derivatives contracts, and did not have a real estate market that was in a government and Wall Street inflated bubble. None of which was a result of Capitalism in our country, mind you.

          In contrast, the reason that we DO have 12+ trillion in debt, banks with 100 trillion in derivative leverage and more national asset bubbles than we can count (or even identify), is because we are no longer a Capitalist country with a federal government limited by the Constitution. We are largely a corporatist country, where private lobbies, neither composed of nor proportionately representing the electorate, have the ear of the entire federal government, and because that same federal government does not obey the Constitution and therefore exceeds its legitimate authority.

          Were the feds to obey the Constitution, we would not be in the mess we are in, because the government would not have been able to borrow and spend so much, the banks that are leveraged up 100 trillion in derivatives would have failed long ago (or would have much more prudent debt to asset ratios) and our Fed-fueled economic bubbles could not exist.

          So lets get your definitions straight – China has a centrally planned economy that has generated a lot of savings by stealing the value of its people’s currency, and the U.S. has a hybrid economy with ever-increasing special interest legislation that drastically reducing our capacity, ability and/or right to productively use our resources to produce goods.

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            Wrong, this recession is a direct result of free-trade and open-borders. We have a middle class in a slave-economy, the two are incompatable.

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          2. Matt

            Yeah – right. A credit crisis based on collapse of a giant nationwide asset bubble isn’t based on perverse government policy to fuel money and asset inflation – it is a result of free-trade.

            Sorry buddy – ain’t buying.

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          3. Dfens

            People who had jobs in the fast food industry were having a hard time affording $250,000 houses. Who could have possibly seen that coming? Then POP there goes your housing market. Damn that Fed anyway for eating so many cheeseburgers. Come on, ignorant mob, let’s storm the castle.

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          4. Fred the Protectionist

            Free Trade and Open Borders destroyed many good paying jobs, meaning Americans have less money. A crashing housing market, or a stock market dump, is just a symptom of destroying the American middle class.

            Same thing is happening in Europe at the exact same time.

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      2. Fred the Protectionist

        Libertarian say: “The Chinese government is Communist.
        Libertarians are not Communists.
        Communists are far left philosophically.
        Libertarians are far right philosophically.”

        Yeah it must really bother you to know that you free traders empower the Communist government over in China. If you free traders hadn’t traded with China in the first place, China would have collapsed like the Soviet Union collapsed.

        You empower them, by giving them our jobs and our industry, congratulations for perpetuating global Communism.

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    2. Joan

      There’s that tricky little massive overpopulation thing people pretend doesn’t exist. When they had to limit people to one child, they started killing the girls, civilized society all right, to have boys to carry on their name. So people have a child to carry on their name, not to love the child, kill the female child so now there aren’t enough women, so the men pay money to share one wife. It has to do with overpopulation turned into population control, turned into human selfishness, turned into murder of their own children, into completely unbalanced male/female population, and they work for nothing because of overpopulation. The overpopulation causes pollution. I have a friend who goes to China with her husband, and she said they have to wear masks and they are sick for several weeks when they get home. That pesky humans have so overpopulated keeps showing up in so many horrible ways. Our country wouldn’t have lost so many jobs if there weren’t plenty of overpopulated countries for the corporations to turn to. No one is ever going to do one thing about it. The new thing is people sell their children into sex slavery, have children to make money by selling them as sex slaves to survive. Nice nuclear family. Unless the entire world gets it they all have to practice birth control, only have one child, and not kill their own child because it is a female, nothing is going to change. China has what, 1 billion people? 300 billion have just gotten out of poverty with these sweat shop jobs, and now they are trying to get another 400 billion out of poverty.

      One thing they realized is they can’t do it when people live in outlying areas. They realized they have to have cities for people to live in for them to be able to work. Note to all U.S. homebuilders: stop building suburburbs, urban sprawl and smog and 75 percent unemployment, lack of political power and lack of community is all that comes out of it. If we had left most people in the big cities in this country and not built up surburbs of suburbs, our states wouldn’t be going bankrupt now over Medicaid and welfare and disability to most of the people living outside of the big cities who have no jobs.

      I know, overpopulation isn’t real, China isn’t overpopulated to the point of killing their female children because of population control, they didn’t take millions of jobs from this country, there’s no pollution, because people are for what ever reason terrified of dealing with this problem. People have this idea that if you deal with overpopultion that the government will kill them, that’s what they tell me, must be some really, really bad people posting in chatboards that have records or something and figure they would be the first to go. That’s all I can figure.

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      1. Dfens

        When Ronny and Randy have their way, we will owe China more than this country is even worth. Once we have slaves so we can compete with China’s slave labor, then we can sell our women to China to help balance out our debt. By then they should be more than worth their weight in gold.

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        1. Bottomline

          Dfens the more you post, the more rediculous you sound. Ron and his son Rand will not turn back the time of this country back to slavery. It is the exact opposite of what they are trying to do. So check your facts.

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          1. Fred the Protectionist

            Libertarian say: “Ron and his son Rand will not turn back the time of this country back to slavery.”

            Yes they would. Free Trade and Slavery are inseparable.

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          2. Matt

            Fred the Protectionist – That is probably the dumbest thing I have ever seen a moron say.

            Protectionist say: Freedom and Slavery are inseparable.

            Right. Freedom = Prosperity, and as the American industrial revolution shows, a renaissance in wealth generation, innovation and industry. That is how you solve the problem of overpopulation – become more efficient at utilizing the resources we have i.e. another renaissance in wealth production.

            Lol – I have to admit Fred the Orwellianist brought a smile to my face with that brain-fart.

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          3. Fred the Protectionist

            Free Trade and Slavery ARE inseparable.

            If a country has a large population of slaves, then aggregate demand is low, slaves make absolutely lousy consumers, slaves cannot purchase what the slave owner produces. This is why countries with large populations of slaves must have Free Trade, they must export.

            This is why the Confederacy was for Free Trade. This is why neo-Confederates (Libertarians and Neocons) are for Free Trade today.

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          4. Matt

            Which…. is why the Drs. Paul advocate freedom, and not slavery.

            Duh.

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          5. Dfens

            And here I thought Ronny and Randy were advocating that we buy more from the slave labor of the Communist Chinese? Ronny got real upset when we put that tariff on those cheap crappy tires his Chinese buddies were trying to dump on our market at less than the cost to manufacture them. He loves those iPods too, made by slave labor. You’re sure he’s not actually for slavery though, right? I mean he says “free” all the time, but then he always ends up actually being for slavery. It’s way too confusing for his true believers, true enough, but I think the rest of us see though the fog pretty well.

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          6. Fred the Protectionist

            Libertarian say: “Which…. is why the Drs. Paul advocate freedom, and not slavery.”

            Freedom is Slavery: the freedom to own slaves and exploit cheap foreign labor. Neo-Confederate.

            Paul promotes freedom for the rich, and slavery for everyone else.

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        2. Dfens

          I noticed how Ronny and Randy were right there for the US tire worker, and the consumer too a few months back when China decided to dump their cheap, crappy tires on our market to kill off our few remaining tire factories. When Obama signed that puny 35% tariff that evaporates in 3 years Ronny issued a big statement regarding how wonderful China is:

          Obama’s decision to enact steep tariffs on Chinese imported tires could spark a trade war with the single most important trading partner we have. Not only does China manufacture a whole host of products that end up on American store shelves, they are also still buying our Treasury debt. – Ronny

          Oh yeah, if you work in any of the handful of industries we have left in America, Ronny and Randy have your back. After all, don’t judge them by what they’ve said, judge them by what their true believers say when it is politically expedient. In the mean time, I wonder how much I could get for my daughter? Isn’t “free trade” great?

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          1. SS

            When will you post the statement where Paul says “how wonderful China is”?

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          2. Fred the Protectionist

            All pro-growth neocons and Libertarians love China. They got nothing but good words about China; they should move to China.

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          3. Libertarian777

            we already owe more to Soc Security, Medicare, Medicaid that exceeds the value of the USA.

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          4. Matt

            Or, you could keep your daughter and open a tire repair shop, or work for an automotive company that increased production due to lower manufacturing costs, or compete with high quality, high priced tires, or learn a skill that the Chinese have not developed and cannot provide.

            Wow, amazing what 5 minutes of thought will do. Necessity is the mother of innovation, and innovation has solved all of the social and economic challenges in the recent past of political freedom. Why would you be so eager to return to being a chattel of those who run your government at the first sign of economic challenge?

            Liberty and morality are lifestyle choices. So is self-indenturism. I choose the former, thank you.

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          5. Fred the Protectionist

            Libertarian say: “we already owe more to Soc Security, Medicare, Medicaid that exceeds the value of the USA.”

            Your neocon/Libertarian propaganda doesn’t match. Some simple mathematics:

            1/5th the economy is health care

            Health Care > 100% of economy

            Notice how both propaganda phrases don’t match up. This is why you Libertarian/Neocons can’t win elections, you don’t pass the populist sniff test. One is 20%, the other over 100%, doesn’t match, and you don’t need a PHD in mathematics to see it.

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        3. Joan

          LOL. Sell them our women, make a fortune. Maybe that’s how we will pay all of that money back to China. Did you see that show “Undercover Boss?” A rich CEO lives in a multi-million dollar mansion, plays golf, goes undercover into 7-11 or Hooters or whatever, and he works with the people making minimum wage, the guys working the night shift at 7-11, putting their lives in danger of being robbed, then works at Hooters to see girls making minimum wage plus tips for wearing shorts and tight tops, only to see one of the managers force them to eat plates of beans without utensils, just with their mouths, to degrade them even more than the job degrades them, so him and his shareholders can live the good life. We’re pretty close to slave labor now.

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          1. Dfens

            This is Ronny and Randy’s vision for the future. The individual is unimportant. They believe in the collective. After all, that’s what politics is. There was a time in this country when the individual mattered. A time when Werner Von Braun designed rockets that went to the moon. Kelly Johnson designed aircraft that even today no one can get a practical firing solution to knock one down. That’s not what Libertarians are about. Their philosophy is that everyone is special, so now no one is. Everyone has rights, but really now no one does. Everyone is free, and now we are slaves. It’s the NAFTA superhighway to hell paved 100 yards wide with good intentions.

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    3. Matt

      This is absurd. So if Microsoft wasn’t in China providing jobs, somehow people would be making 3x wages at a different job? Obviously not, or they would already be working at those jobs!!

      One reason that Chinese workers earn so little, is because there are so many of them. But you cannot solve a problem with too many workers by artificially raising wages – that just reduces the number of people who can get a job, just like it does in the U.S.

      Another reason why Chinese workers earn so little, is their government is constantly devaluing their currency. The Communist Chinese inflate Yuan and use the extra in large part to purchase dollars, increasing the value of the dollar and decreasing the value of the Yuan. Americans can therefore buy more with their currency, and the Chinese can buy less. Thus, Chinese laborers are subsidizing (really loaning, as the imbalance will correct sharply) American consumers! This very much is Chinese government oppression – but the solution is not for the American government to oppress Americans. Obviously that just leads to more oppression.

      Finally – Americans put in far more hours at work than our parents for two major reasons – neither of which have anything to do with the mechanism of maximizing wealth production – or free trade.

      First – we have bought into a culture of spending. Our parents didn’t spend money on monthly cell phone bills, monthly cable bills, monthly Internet bills, huge monthly car and mortgage bills, huge student loan bills and sky-high mortgage bills.

      Second – the government has devalued our currency and through guns-n-butter spending has drastically increased the cost of living. Inflation not only means price increases, it also forces us into higher tax brackets! In the 1950s most of the middle class was in the lowest tax bracket – now almost all of the middle class is in a mid or high tax bracket. Further, all of the borrow and spending for pervasive welfare has incentivized fewer people to work and pay taxes, and all deficit spending increases interest on the national debt. Worse still, government spending in healthcare and education has drastically increased the prices of both – so what were relatively minor bills for our parents are now drastically high bills for us. Government degradation of public schools has forced more people into more expensive private schools, or into districts with much higher tax brackets that can compete with ‘government overfunding’. In addition, all these price increases make it impossible to be a blue collar worker and to afford the basics, forcing more people into college whether they can afford it or not, and whether a white collar job is waiting for them afterward, or not. None of these things has been due to free trade.

      As a final note – currency inflation is very insidious for the middle class as it destroys your ability to save for retirement. This currency inflation is a result of over-spending by government – big government democrats and big government republicans – but NOT libertarian republicans!!

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