56 responses to “Ron Paul on Social Security, Obamacare and the Tea Party Movement”

  1. Annepezoops

    cialis forum activity. If you experience chest pain, nausea, or any other discomforts during sex, seek immediate medical help.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  2. lovebug

    a bunch of loossseers wasting time with congress man ..SO WHAT HAVE THEY DONE FOR YOU LATELY? WHERE IS YOUR BRAIN LITTLE FOLLOWERS …MARCHING ALONG LIKE A PACK OF WOLVES AND SHEEP BLAH …LOL… GET REAL ..CONGRESS MEN ARE MAKING MONEY AND A NICE LIVING FROM YOUR H.WK. OPEN YOUR EYES …LOOK AROUND ….YOU HAVE COMMONSENSE OR NOT? MAYBE NOT OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE AHEAD….GET YOURSELF A JOB AT THE GROCERY STORE NOW AND SEE WHAT ITS LIKE TO START FROM SCRATCH….LIVING IT UP AT OTHERS EXPENSE IS OVER ….OR DO YOU GET FREE FOOD AT THE TEA PARTIES? LOL..

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6

  3. Theresa Romano

    1111cb,
    You’re awesome. I’ll be reading for quite a while. I think I need more than a week to ”chew through” this stuff but thanks. I need something to read and obsess about.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  4. Theresa Romano

    I have never heard of a ‘clean house’ but whatever it is I think I like it.
    The short term interest that insurance companies get by deferring payments t may not be right but the fact that the government played the stocks with FICA money is criminal. It should have gone into straight savings accounts.
    And mediCAID should be on a seperate system. It’s welfare. I’m not opposed to welfare but we shouldn’t have used workers’ FICA insurance money for non-workers’ welfare.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    1. 1111cb

      I am honestly not sure where it all comes from and goes- you have dug up a lot of info. I am interested in how much more you dig up on where the money comes from and goes with Medicaid and Medicare. The main thing I am sure of is that a huge amount is wasted as you know.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    2. 1111cb

      you seem better at chewing through all this

      so here you go

      http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st299?pg=6

      http://www.treas.gov/offices/economic-policy/reports/budget_trust_fund_3_23.pdf

      http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2595445/the_governance_of_the_medicare_trust.html?cat=3

      what is missing is who and how the money was spent outside its designated sources. But I do not believe that we would have been able to keep this going without reform of the wste ( not the fraud witchhunt of looking for “upcoding” that only exists because no one understands the billing and if you accidently leave out mention of family history in your note but the nurse documented it in the chart, even if you spend 3 hours with a pt with pneumonia complicated by a heart attack out of control diabetes, you missed the billing for a complicated pneumonia- FRAUD if you bill at the high rate. Its a game that most older docs lose-I’ve been through several courses so in better shape than many-but there is always a debate by the experts at every course on billing)

      appreciate your thoroughness and ability to synthesize all the data.

      I have a busy week- so I’ll check in, in a week

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  5. Theresa Romano

    FICA Tax
    Payroll taxes for Social Security benefits are collected under the authority of the Federal Insurance Contributions Act or FICA. Most people simply refer to these taxes as FICA tax. This tax had its origins back in 1935 when the tax was part of the Social Security program.

    ===================================================
    Just to explain where I’m coming from.
    The acronym means Federal INSURANCE Contributions Act.
    So when it was passed in 1935 it was presented to the American masses as Insurance.
    What insurance company could legally spend the payees money before they asked for it.
    Isn’t it supposed to acrue interest for the payee so that his money will acrue interest in keeping with inflation?
    Again…mediCARE and social security should have funding set aside from FICA which is an INSURANCE policy.
    FICA is not a welfare program.
    mediCAID is welfare dollars paid out to those who never paid into any system. mediCAID is a welfare program which draws money from social security funds….much of those funds should have been set aside as INSURANCE money.
    Right?

    »crosslinked«

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    1. 1111cb

      great digging but the only problem is the math.

      Where is the interest coming from to keep pace with inflation?

      And your insurance companies do invest your money in the stock market. Why do you think they used to benefit from delayed payments.

      My insurance company informed me when the stock market went south that they were not hit as bad as others so my time to neeeded to put zero in was pushed out. If they don’t gamble with my money and benfits, then why were they affected?

      Its all about the stock market and keeps coming back to subsidizing big business- keep digging.

      also- I agree with you- hospitals and ED’s cannot fix people like your mother. Handouts do not either and disability pay does not fix them with what it currently covers. So why pour more money into what does not work- why not fix it and stop wasting money. Why not fund clean houses, etc that keep on people like your mom 24 hrs a day to work hard, be responsible and stay clean and keep them in classes? Why do they fund all the programs you mentioned that enable her? and give unlimited hospitalizations when she wants to look for drugs and see if any doctor will give it to her before she leaves AMA and wastes all our time and money?

      And Yes Yes Yes- You hit one of my BIG beefs is why is all the profit from savings accounts taxed? Why can’t all this money be out in savings accounts? Why is it all invested in the stock market to avoid taxes? If they had put it in a regular bank or let us do it…..

      keep following the money- its all about funding the stock market (FYI- I know there are problems with the current reform bill)

      But the money is spent- so now what do we do- no one has the money to right the wrong? The elderly got robbed and we have a problem no one wants to face. But the bottom line is -money is gone. But to keep promising that money out like we can pay it in the future is a lie. Unless you really get as radical about cuts in government as Ron Paul has been saying for years.

      Social security goes to kids of those who paid in? why? we can’t afford unending promises.

      I personally think there is enough money to let people buy into Medicaid if they cut the waste(like you described with your mother) and let people buy into it who want to help fund it. As to who qualifies for disability- talk to your Congress- state and federal- fund what works and stop funding what doesn’t even if it costs you votes.
      Federal government is too big to deal with these and too big to reform without politics and just use plain common sense.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  6. Theresa Romano

    Also about the inbalance of medicare.
    Right.
    Those paying in can’t sustain the benefits which are paid out.
    But what if those benefits only went to those who had paid in to it??
    That’s how an insurance policy is supposed to work.
    Also while it’s true that years ago people ‘paid in’ less money it is also true that the money should have sat and accrued interest.
    Think about it.
    If a guy put 10.00 in the bank in 1910 and left it until 1995 then, at 5% interest what would that 10.00 be?
    Fica was supposed to go into a reserve fund where it accrued interest.
    Then when the payees got old it would reflect the current economy as the money would have accumulated interest in a way that reflected inflation.
    But the government didn’t reserve the money for them.
    So it never grew and accumulated interest.
    Why????

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  7. Theresa Romano

    111cb
    We are coming at this from completely different perspectives.
    My foster boys’ mom needed to stop being enabled. She used my boys’ secrion 8 house as a brothel. This is not a joke. I can post addresses and dates….
    This woman ”played” the system.
    She went to therapy(out patient) and passed all her tests. She got her section 8 house.
    On visits the children slept on the couch while mom and her female room mate and mom’s …. um…ok I’ll just say it…her pimp….entertained.
    So here’s what happened.
    The week that she was supposed to get the children back she … suddenly… failed a drug test with one of the harshest substances …. one she’d never used before.
    The children have since been adopted(beatiful little angels).
    ‘Mom’ is still living in the section 8 house, getting disability and laughing…yes…laughing at the gov’t.
    And if you don’t think the recipients laugh then maybe I can get some video.
    I remember one guy laughing about How to get disability….
    He started to shake and look nervously over his shoulder…..he said ”it’s them….do you see them…it’s them”…..
    Then he sat back and grinned while some others in the room fell back laughing…..
    He winked at me and said ”that’s how you get disability”……

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  8. Theresa Romano

    Actually I think I know one thing about medicare. When we pay that tax…what is it…FICA…isn’t that supposed to go to social security and medicare.
    So I thought medicare was a type of insurance that American workers were buying from the government(maybe I’m oversimplifying).
    Now mediCAID is the complete opposit. Medicaid is handed out by the government to persons who never paid taxes or may not be citizens. (again maybe oversimplifying).
    But the bottom line is that Americans expected the government to create an old age cushion for them when they paid taxes.
    But that’s not where the money went. It’s not an old age insurance tax.
    Much of the $$ gets funneled to mediCAID.
    Through mediCAID the $$$ goes to persons who never paid taxes.
    If they’re orphaned children then God Bless America and I’m all for it.
    But when money that the government gathered from working Americans’ taxes in the guise of ‘old age security’ goes to a 25 year old able bodied ex-con because excessive drug use left her feeling depressed I have to say… what???…
    I really believe we need to find out more about the difference between mediCARE and mediCAID.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. 1111cb

      Medicaid absolutely varies state to state and because is administered on a state level, much easier to review and keep more in line with modern scientific thinking.
      I was referring both to hospital and outpt reimbursement rates.
      Old days was 80′s-to early 90′s- docs I volunteered with got veggies and chickens and free care as a physician was at your discretion.

      I do believe alcohol and drug addiction are absolutely medical conditions.

      I also believe the shortsighted cuts in psychatric care and outpatient treatment of these and other mental health conditions escalated the ED and hospitalization rates in these groups to unsustainable numbers. They cut drug coverage for schizophrenics and limited outpt visits but unlimited payment for NECESSARY hospital stays- which means out of compassion, we err on the side of safety, we admit at night, sort out the next day when help arrives. We risk denial of payment on many visits and some are, but when someone says they will kill themselves and we think its just because they are cold and hungry, we can’t sort it out. It would be cheaper to feed and help these people. Some even admit they commit small crimes in the hopes of being jailed and fed. Many of these people used to be safe and working when on the more expensive meds.

      It costs the hospital money to see them, RN staffing goes up, we have to do a medical screening with labs, so lab costs, etc- if this goes unreimbursed- because the social net failed- you through taxes (Medicaid/Medicare and insurance premiums )eat the cost.

      Think about what your mom needed? was it a hospital/ED or real help through outpt therapy, groups, intense living situations, treatment center,etc? Crisis care is expensive. Did Medicaid really pay for what she needed to get well? That is what is wrong with the system. Some groups do better- in Boston we had a great outpt system for addicts and mentally ill 15 yrs ago. Where I am now- they are in a revolving door shoved between outpt referrals and inpt care and no real help.

      Medicare is funding by those working. See other posts who add up the benefits and do the math. Now the elderly getting benefits and those working to sustain the system are out of balance. Its 2 workers to 1 payee. add up what you put into the system over your life and what you are supposed to get out- the math does not and never worked unless you have a system that prints infinate money, or a stock market that always goes up ( but can’t anymore since the scams were exposed) Those saying they cover the cost of Medicare and its not subsidized and unsustainable at the current level- check their math.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. 1111cb

      At this point following the money trail will help find the ones who need to be thrown out of office. And assist inguiding reform. But at this point, they are not sustainable under the old system or reform. Ron Paul is one of the few telling the truth. I believe if we start from the truth we can save these but all parties minus the lobbyists need to hash out solutions. The politics means saying the truth loses you votes. We the people need to say telling the truth wins you votes.

      The states are broke. The federal government is in debt with unfunded mandates that make no sense and could be streamlined. The people are struggling with their own debt and unemployment. The ineffient use of health care dollars is worsening the situation.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  9. Theresa Romano

    111cb,
    Could this differ from state to state? I know that co-payments for someone on or medicaid are zero(I know nothing about medicare). As to what the government pays out on their behalf I really do believe it is higher than we think.
    I’m in New York.
    Maybe you are talking about primary care giving and I am talking about hospital visits.
    Is this possible?
    Also you mention something about the old days? Free care was cheaper in the old days?
    How long ago was that?
    Also, medicaid and medicare differ greatly. I don’t know about medicare. But I did have to find ‘medicaid’ doctors when my foster children need doctors, counselors and dentists.
    Here’s what tweaks me. I was glad the government gave the children coverage.
    But ‘mom’ got medicaid because she was a drug addict. No joke. No lie. At 25 she was considered ‘disabled’ and given medicaid.
    She got the dental care, therapist and pcp that the children got.
    If you think being a drug addict isn’t a disability then you’ve been misled.
    Apparently excessive drug use can cause depression (or paranoia or agoraphobia).
    Now, voila…..a free dentist? A free psychotherapist?
    I know many working men and women who can’t get dental coverage or psychotherapy coverage.
    Are you sure about the amount that medicaid (not medicare) gives the pcp?
    Is that recent?

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  10. Theresa Romano

    111cb,
    Hey great link!
    Look what I found…

    Medicaid payments currently assist nearly 60 percent of all nursing home residents and about 37 percent of all childbirths in the United States. The Federal Government pays on average 57 percent of Medicaid expenses.

    The link says that each state participates and the average amount the state’s put in is 16% of their funding.
    At the very least the federal government matches that by 50%.

    What I also know from personal experience is that Medicare and Medicaid contribute to inflating hospital costs.
    For example, since medicaid and medicare are willing to pay hospitals $20.00 for an aspirin (and why not…it’s not their money), then the health insurers are pressured into paying that same amount. If they don’t. they could simply be dropped.
    I’ve been told by some nurses that there are examples of state of the art equipment which only medicaid patients will get because the government pays more than the private insurers. Maybe that differs from state to state?
    Incredible that media sources would claim insurance companies were greedy and all the while they know that medicare and medicaid are helping inflate prices….

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. 1111cb

      The first part of your post was great and factual. I am not sure what the source of the RN’s were speaking from. I work in hospital medicine after leaving primary care work. Medicare payments do not meet costs and while it is true that everyone inflates the bill- I see the stats monthly. Reimbursement is considered great of you recoup 30 % of billing.

      It is why I do not say lightly that free care was cheaper to offer in the old days. The issue of prosecuting or auditing those who give free care and calling it fraud is outrageous. Its called differing fees and fraud.

      Medicaid also pays less than what it takes to cover. So to compensate, doctors and hospitals in order to stay afloat negotiate with private insurers driving up your rates to cover the losses from Medicare and Medicaid. The insurers need to doctors and hospitals to stay in business. Then they pass on the premium increase and reduced benefits to you who pays for the insurance. Since its harder to negotiate with government- the reimbursement remains too low. Also to stay afloat, practices calculate how many medicaid and medicare pts they can subsidize. They then stop taking new pts in this category after the limit is reached. Result- you can have medicare or medicaid but no doctor as a primary care to see you.

      Don’t believe it- call around as a “new pt” and say you have Medicaid or Medicare- unless its a new guy with an unfilled practice- you can’t get in. Then call again as an insurance pt to the same practice.

      This was the hidden cost that due to the political games could not be clearly shown to the public. Now the hidden cost is more up front that’s all. It’s a system on a course for crashing unless all sides sit down and really hash out a solution.

      Lastly- lack of consumer choice drives up cost- that is why health savings accounts are best or coverage for first 4-5 PCP visits a year plus post hospital visits. Despite insurance I wanted an ECHO which was approved and some ultrasound screening not approved. The ECHO alone would have cost $ 1000 due to the administrative costs related to dealing with insurance companies, etc.

      I opted to pay through flex for a mobile private screen- all the tests were <$250 because they only take cash.

      Now if you have a medical condition- the higher quality ECHO at a cardiologist or hospital does make a difference but for screening? If there were no insurance complications- the entire cost of all procedures would drop. And Medicare is one of the most complicated to deal with because of the IRS/fraud threat and the lack of clarity on billing. Ask 3 doctors to define observation vs inpatient status, 3 Medicare workers and 3 professional coders- you will get 9 answers.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  11. Theresa Romano

    1111cb
    Thanks. One more question. Where doe the federal government get the money to partially fund the state run medicaid? Is it from medicare funds?

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. 1111cb

      sorry
      I cannot understand the complex funding in Washington- I only have basic understandings- perhaps some others who post know more??

      I do recall demands for transparency in this area about exactly where the money came from and went have been met with resistance.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. 1111cb

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

      with a caution as to the source- perhaps this will help. The lack of transparency is why the Medicare trust fund is depleted and no clear answers to these type of direct questions are ever met with straight answers.

      When you look at federal budgets- my understanding as someone with no accounting background, but based on my reading – is that it is deliberately hard to read where the money goes to and comes from.

      You are welcome to press your Congressman/woman’s office- bet they can’t answer. If they do- they deserve consideration of a possible vote in my bok for knowing their job

      you got my curiosity up- so I will keep searching- but my time is limited

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    3. 1111cb

      OK – here are some sites for starters- the answer seems to be they have a changing budget, federal requirements, inadequate funding and patched together solutions.

      hidden cost-lobbyists:
      http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/issuesum.php?lname=Medicare+%26+Medicaid

      effect of Health care reform:
      http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12232299

      basic info:
      http://www.hhs.gov/recovery/statefundsmap.html

      http://gbgm-umc.org/global_news/full_article.cfm?articleid=3593

      http://blogs.consumerreports.org/health/2009/02/stimulus-funding-for-medicaid-on-the-way-white-house-says.html

      last 2 have an agenda- but contain good facts.

      basically – things are being phased in so there are 2 presidential elections before full impact of Health care reform is phased in- so there is time to figure this out and correct it starting with the unfunded mandates and unconstitutionality of forced purchase of health care. As a physican- this benefits only the lobby interests from what I see. I would rather provide free care as we used to do before it became Medicare fraud to offer it.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  12. Theresa Romano

    Does anyone know how medicaid and medicare are connected?
    My understanding is that medicaid takes funds from medicare and gives it to persons who never paid into the system. Is that correct?
    I also know for a fact that depression and paranoia make persons eligible for disability and it is illegal for the therapist who diagnoses the person with depression or paranoia to mention whether the depression or paranoia is the result of using hallucinagenics.
    So in other words a crack dealer who never paid taxes and is living on welfare can receive disability benefits through medicaid if he is paranoid. The fact that the paranoia is a result of crack/cocaine use and a legitimate fear of being arrested does not matter.
    Anyway I would love to know more about medicare and medicaid and how they differ.
    Does anyone know?

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    1. 1111cb

      Medicaid is run by the states and funded partly by the federal government. It has more responsiveness and flexibility as it is state run. That said- yes- if you do drugs, and qualify for disability as a result, you can go on Medicaid. Disability and Income are major qualifiers. In our state a ballot measure from the people opened up the prescription program to anyone who wanted to buy in and get the group discount. That is the kind of flexibility it has.

      Medicare is run by our politicians in Washington who make medical decisions, set them in stone (law) based on old science, politics or reasons I cannot figure out. Given the current hostile political climate no one will do anything to fix it so its quietly going broke- you can’t meaningful reform bad science, bad rules, real waste or do things that make sense if everyone is grandstanding.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  13. Joe

    Joan, it seems like you’re jumping the gun on this. And also, I’m confused.What are the 40 trillion in unfunded liabilities? I don’t even know what that means. I just know that the Social Security fund would currently have over a 2 trillion dollar surplus if that fund wasn’t used for other things.Did it occur to you that perhaps people have an agenda? Like when Reagan’s buddy Grover Norquist said he wanted to ‘starve the beast.’ The ideal is to create massive debt so the government has to cut social programs. So what did Reagan do? Cut taxes on the wealthy, nearly quadrupled the national debt, then tried to pay for that debt by raising cigarette and gasoline taxes to all time highs, and raising the FICA tax, so he could take from that fund and pay off those tax cuts for the wealthy. They purposely bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, and trust me it’s not a hard thing to fix. First of all, you make it so that fund can’t be used for anything else, and you make the FICA tax a flat tax, rather than a degressive one.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    1. Joan

      Joe, what it is, is that what they pay out in those two programs so far exceeds what is paid in, that it goes trillions in the red. An example is one World War II generation person paid zero into Medicare and one half of one percent tax into Social Security for a few years after the programs first started. So, let’s say the person paid 2,000 total into SS. They retire at 62-65, they get 1,200 a month, 12,000 a year, many of them are living to be almost 100. So, they get 12,000 a year for 30 years, that comes out to $360,000 that they receive in cash from SS, for paying 2,000 into it. They paid zero in those days into Medicare, then Medicare paid for lets say a hip replacement, knee replacement, open heart surgery, expensive tests, meds, end of life care, nursing homes. So, the government paid hospitals and doctors and nursing homes maybe 500,000 to over a million dollars, they paid zero into it. You multiply that by 45 million people being paid that money and having all of their medical bills paid by the government, after 20 years, it goes trillions into the red.

      Now, you have 75 million more people who are starting to go onto those programs. Each one wants 3,000 a month, one payment for them, one payment for the spouse who didn’t pay into it. So, now your looking at paying over 700,000 in cash over 30 years, and they paid maybe 30-50K into it. They paid one percent into Medicare, they will receive over a million dollars each in health care. Multiply that by 70 million people, it would take 85 trillion dollars to give out all of that free money and free health care. The idea is you pay in a small amount of money, receive it back the first year, and every year after that it is free money to you. You pay a few dollars into Medicare and receive full free health care for the rest of your life. Now, one could argue they could have made interest on that money or made a better investment. Not really. After four years, you have made four times your investment. It’s basically the same as when you pay taxes when you work and then if you applied for welfare and food stamps and free housing and said, well I paid taxes, I paid for it. Well, after two years on free rent, it’s welfare.

      They have to do away with the SSI component of it, where they give out 600-1,000 a month for life to people who never paid into it, stop paying children, they are not working age, stop letting everyone say they are completely disabled because they are overweight or diabetic or an alcoholic or drug addict or they have ADD. They have to cut back and only pay the person who paid into it, not spouses who never paid into it. They need to raise the retirement age, raise the tax again, do a tiered system where millionaires get 4 years, 4 times what they paid in and then no more, give people who make over 300,000 a year retired 5 years, 5 times what they paid in and drop it. Unless they streamline it, it would cost 40 trillion dollars to pay out all of that free money to everyone.

      They need to privatize Medicare, pay for everyone to have a private insurance policy. Instead of paying 200,000 for one surgery, pay 20,000 a year and no more for seniors to purchase insurance. Otherwise it would cost 45 trillion to pay the medical bills for one more generation. Both programs are bleeding to death by paying thousands of times more out than they take in.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      1. 1111cb

        great post

        just a thought to add
        do you realize there is no option besides Medicare after age 65- there are no insurances other then Medicare or insurance companies subsidized by Medicare to administer care?

        There is no option for Health savings accounts, etc.

        Even if you are wealthy- your options are cash or Medicare.

        Wonder why it was set up that way?

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        1. Joan

          That’s such a good point. Older people have to be on Medicare, so when Obama took 500 billion out of Medicare to fund the new health care bill, while 75 million more people will be going onto Medicare, it leaves people forced to be in a system that will not serve them. It was such a dirty trick. If her cared about older people, he would have worked with the Repubs on their privatization package.

          The states are suing over the individual mandate, but I don’t think they will win on that argument because health care is necessary to survive, same as food and water and air. So, coming at it from the idea that it’s a good or service people are now being forced to purchase, I feel the Supreme Court will side with the feds. I emailed Dick Morris, who is all over this bill, and told him the states should be suing over the Medicaid component. They have proof that New York and California went bankrupt over Medicaid, so with this bill adding millions more people onto Medicaid, it goes against the welfare of the people of every state. I also loved Morris’ idea to vote the Repubs in and ask them to refuse to sign to fund the bill, game over. It’s going to be so interesting to see how it all turns out.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    2. Joan

      Joe, what I see with people is they all saw their grandparents get all that free money for decades, and everybody knows they paid almost nothing into it, and we all know it’s massive welfare, and mainly for wealthy retirees who have big pensions, own several pieces of property, some have rental properties, stocks, bonds, some have millions in cash in the bank. They see hey, more free money for me, I want it, I want 3 grand a month more, I as promised it, that would mean several trips a year to Europe, who cares how much it costs. Everyone knows darned well how much they paid into those programs and that they would get so much more out of it than they ever paid into it, but they just want that free money no matter what. No one will budge anymore on the idea of free government money. The Tea Party people are retired people on those programs and their only concern is keeping those programs. They don’t care about debt or big government or how much it costs their kids or grandkids. They want more vacations, more expensive clothes, whatever it is they had planned on spending that extra money on, and they do not want to have to pay one cent for health insurance, nor do they want to pay any co-pays for Medicare. They want it all for free so they can live the high life. One senator was on Fox the other day and he said “seniors call me all the time and ask me if their SS will be cut. They live in gated communities and drive a Lexus and all they care about is will their free money be cut back.” A political commentator on Fox said the other day “those Tea Party people are not going to budge on SS and Medicare, I’ve talked to some of them, they want all of the entitlements.” If the Tea Party people were for real, they would be working to privatize Medicare and to reduce the payouts on SS, if they really want to reduce the national debt and not burden their childen and grandchildren. Most of our budget is going for those two programs at this point, yet those Tea Party people protest for a balanced budget, smaller government, no more debt, knowing their programs will cause 85 trillion in debt. And, it is socialism. So, they protest and say “no socialism, evil socialists.” But, those programs are socialism at its finest.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      1. fred the protectionist

        “It has 40 trillion in unfunded liabilities.”

        So is every other government program like roads, military, etc… “unfunded liability”.

        You just made a useless political mantra and buzz-phrase.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

        1. Joan

          No, unfunded liability is 75 million people now want to be paid by SS, they have been told they will get almost 3,000 a month each for the rest of their lives. They have been told they will get full health care for the rest of their lives. It will cost 85 trillion dollars for the government to keep their commitments to those 75 million people. It’s not what if a road needs repairs, it’s the actual amounts they now owe people.

          You people can scream until you are blue in the face that you want, want, want it, the facts are the government would have to borrow 85 trillion dollars or get it through increased taxes to pay out what they said they would pay out. It isn’t going to happen. China isn’t loaning any 85 trillion to us, never mind paying just the interest on 85 trillion would take up the entire GDP. You can say, “I’m entitled, I want” all you want to, that doesn’t mean the money is there nor does it mean you don’t need to negotiate with the government to make adjustments and to privatize Medicare to keep it in existence. It’s time to negotiate to save the programs, not stay stuck on I want, I want, who cares, borrow 85 trillion dollars to give me what I want.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          1. fred the protectionist

            All government programs are technically “unfunded liabilities”.

            “Unfunded liabilities” is a political buzzphrase of the neocons like “Climate Change” is a political buzzphrase of the left. Both are meaningless fiction.

            Once you strip away the propaganda, buzzphrases and political mantras, there’s not much to say.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

        2. Joan

          Nope. When 75 million people are being sent statements from SS telling them they are all entitled to 1,500 a month for the rest of their life, that they paid into it and this is what the government owes them, do the math. $1,500 a month for 25-35 years times 75 million people. That comes out to 40 trillion in promised SS money, 2 trillion taken in. The government has promised them full free health care for the rest of their lives, a few dollars taken in, 45 trillion has been promised to be given to them in Medicare. Where does the money come from? You can’t pay 30,000, get 700,000 out and have a balanced account. How many banks would let you deposit 30K, and then give you 3,000 a month for you and your spouse for the rest of your lives because you gave them 30K? None. Doesn’t exist. How many insurance companies would let you pay them 5,000, and then pay all of your and your spouses medical bills for 25-35 years? Zero.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    3. fred the protectionist

      Watch out Joe, you mock the neocon/Libertarian God Reagan. They’ll be on you like stink on stool.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  14. Charles

    But, see, 2 trillion would have been in the Social Security fund, and the estimate is that it would cost 40 trillion to pay out what has been promised. That’s why it went under giving it out to only one generation. I remember seeing my rich relatives from the WWII generation live to be almost 100, knowing they paid zero into Medicare in their day, and knowing they paid one half of one percent of relatively low incomes in those days into SS. They got raises every year, many retired at 62 on a shoulder injury, a minor disability, or they never worked, got it because their spouse paid into it, and they drew it from 65-98 or ove 100 years of age. That’s how it went bankrupt. Many of them paid maybe 3,000 into it, and ended up getting 200,000 or more out of it, never mind they got hip replacements, knee replacements, major surgeries, all free to them for paying zero into Medicare. It’s a bad ponzi scheme, pay a few bucks in, collect for 25-35 years. I used to see all of it and think, “this won’t be here when we retire, at this rate, both of these programs are going to go bankrupt.” I used to think how one day the politicians would tell all of us Medicare is trillions in debt. There was no way around it. But, the politicians knew they had 75 million working baby boomers paying into it, and everytime they gave the WWII people a raise, they raised the tax on the baby boomers to pay for it. The politicians knew they had no intention of ever giving 75 million people those same benefits, they played it for all it was worth to get re-elected, now it’s someone else’s problem.I must say, I emailed Matthews recently and told him the Tea Party people are only after SS and Medicare, and he’s been talking about it ever since on air. They do read your emails.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  15. RADI

    Chris was really good at getting off the subject. And also is very close minded. Also i think joan and jack are bots.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  16. Joan

    Matthews was middle of the road for years until he started hanging out with Keith Olbermann. I remember when Matthews thought John McCain was the best politician ever, McCain was radical to him compared to far right and far left politicians. I also remember Matthews admit he voted for Bush the first time. He used to do hard hitting interviews, he could smile and be so kind and do a pit bull type of interview at the same time. Then, during the presidential election, him and Olbermann worked together on election results shows all of the time, and he went left, lefty, left. He got on the bandwagon about defend Obama at all costs because he is part black, and lost all perspective about politics. Him and Ed Schutz and Olbermann and Maddow are off a liberal cliff. All they talk about is the people on Fox, the Republicans and conspiracy theories about domestic terrorism and say bad things about the Tea Party people. No wonder no one watches.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    1. Jack

      Joan, you’re simple wrong. That’s a two trillion dollar SURPLUS, that’s after it’s paid out, how much of a surplus in the social security fund there would have been if that fund wasn’t used for wars and tax cuts for the wealthy.

      I don’t know what a ponzi scheme is, I just believe, as Ron Paul does, that the fund must only be used for it’s purpose, if that were the case there would be no problem. Also, you’re simplifying it too much. For example, it could be made more solvent by getting rid of the cap on that tax, therefore those who earn hundreds of thousands or millions a year, or whatever, pay the same percentage of their total income as those who make under 100,000.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      1. Joan

        It has 40 trillion in unfunded liabilities. You are saying there would have been 42 trillion dollars in the fund. Think about it. That’s trillions. Do you know how much tax money would have to be collected to have 42 trillion dollars in an account? You would have had to have 200,000 people paying 90 percent of their income into it to emask a huge amount of money like that. No tax has ever accumulated a trillion dollars, let alone 42 trillion. Think about the 45 trillion in unfunded liabilities for Medicare. Are you saying people paid 45 trillion dollars into Medicare by paying one percent tax into it?? Hilarious. I bet the total money ever taken in, in taxes for Medicare is not in the billions, at one percent of part of the population paying into it. You can’t pay 5 grand into it and expect full free health care for the next 25-35 years. It’s not socialized medicine, that would be if you paid 10 percent into it, it’s welfare, straight up.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      2. Joan

        Jack, I’m not trying to be mean about it. The simple fact is that the politicians took the huge baby boomer generation’s tax money and gave it to the WWII generation in SS and free health care in exchange for their votes, and we all know after seeing the huge free payouts they got for decades and huge free medical they got, that this cannot be done for one more generation. The money has to come from somewhere. The government pays for people’s 200,000 dollar surgeries, expensive tests, on and on. People can’t pay 5,000 into it, and get all of those things without someone paying for it. So, the government would have to borrow trillions more from China to pay for it. The politicans knew they were using our generation to give the older people free money, raises every year. They raised their payments from $200 a month to as high as $1,500 a month, and everyone gets it, millionaires, people with huge passive incomes, and the politicians knew it was welfare, it was welfare for many rich people in exchange for votes. Now, there are not enough people paying into it to pay what they have promised all of us. And, see if a man pays into it and his wife doesn’t, she gets full payments too, so the money has to come from somewhere. If a person pays 50K into it, and they get 3,000 for themself and their spouse, that’s 36K a year, it’s about 700,000 after 20 years. The money has to come from other taxpayers to give to them, from raising the tax on their kids and grandkids and from borrowing money from foreign countries. The politicians knew it was unsustainable, they only cared about getting the older folks’ votes for as long as they could by feeding them free money and free health care. Their kids all saw how much they got, now everyone is addicted to it, but it’s not possible to do for another generation unless it is massively cut back.

        Obama just gutted Medicare and now there are boards that will ration care. The politicans saw Medicare was a bleeding monster, bleeding trillions of dollars in free heath care, and they have been looking for away to gut it for a long time. They just did, they took 500 billion out of Medicare to fund the new health care bill and set up rationing. I saw an article on MSNBC, it’s still there, you can go and look at it. It says the cuts to Medicare will close hospitals and that many doctors will no longer take Medicare patients. They cut it in a chicken way, by surprise with no way for people to opt out or to be able to use it. They should have privatized it, but the politicians don’t care one thing about people, only about votes. They should have come out 20 years ago and been honest with everyone and said, “we can’t continue to give rich people free money, people are living 30 years longer than we expected, we can no longer pay anyone who didn’t pay into it.” It should have been dealt with decades ago, not wait until it’s 40 trillion in debt. They do it on purpose so they can get rid of programs when they become too expensive and when the people they were paying are no longer the group they want votes from.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        1. Jack

          Joan, it seems like you’re jumping the gun on this. And also, I’m confused.

          What are the 40 trillion in unfunded liabilities? I don’t even know what that means. I just know that the Social Security fund would currently have over a 2 trillion dollar surplus if that fund wasn’t used for other things.

          Did it occur to you that perhaps people have an agenda? Like when Reagan’s buddy Grover Norquist said he wanted to ‘starve the beast.’ The ideal is to create massive debt so the government has to cut social programs. So what did Reagan do? Cut taxes on the wealthy, nearly quadrupled the national debt, then tried to pay for that debt by raising cigarette and gasoline taxes to all time highs, and raising the FICA tax, so he could take from that fund and pay off those tax cuts for the wealthy. They purposely bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, and trust me it’s not a hard thing to fix. First of all, you make it so that fund can’t be used for anything else, and you make the FICA tax a flat tax, rather than a degressive one.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          1. Joan

            Wow, I didn’t know that about Reagan. So he ran up big debts on purpose to cut programs, taxed people more and then gave the tax money to corporations. Wow. I did not know that.

            Well, where they came up with these numbers of 45 trillion unfunded liabilities for Medicare and 40 rillion unfunded liabilities for SS is they look at how much it would cost to pay the baby boomers SS and give them Medicare, based on how much they spent on the WWII generation. They came up with these figures, it would cost 85 trillion dollars to give out SS and Medicare to the baby boomers. So, they say, there is no money in there, and even if we didn’t spend the money on other things, there would have been 2 trillion. So, we need an extra 83 trillion to pay for all of this.

            End of life care for most people goes almost into the millions, so they figure 75 million baby boomers, paying them and their spouses a total of just about 3,000 a month, and paying all of their medical expenses, it will cost 85 trillion, and baby boomers paid like 2 trillion into it. That’s the problem. If people pay 5,000 into Medicare and each person uses close to a million in care, trillions in unfunded liabilities eventually show up. Same with the payouts. If a man pays 50K into it, then draws out 700,000 for him and his wife over 20-30 years, it goes into trillions of the money isn’t there. A ponzi scheme is a group of people pay into something and the group before them gets their money, then the next group pays into it, and the previous group gets their money. It’s fine if it’s like 2 trillion in, 2 trillion paid out. When it turns into 2 trillion paid in, 85 trillion paid out, yikes, what to do now?

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  17. Jack

    I enjoyed that interview, but I’m kind of disgusted by these comments. Why attack Chris Matthews like this? He’s got a different point of view, that doesn’t mean we gotta start name-calling.

    Also, Matthews wasn’t the first person to talk about “Social Good”.

    Thomas Paine, after first proposing a plan for minimum income, states a social security plan, “The sum of Ten Pounds per annum, during life, to every person now living of the age of fifty years, and to all others as they shall arrive at that age.” He goes on to write, “But it is justice and not charity, that is the principle of the plan. In all great cases it is necessary to have a principle more universally active than charity; and with respect to justice, it ought not to be left to the choice of detached individiuals, whether they will do justice or not.”

    So we can honestly disagree with each other, but we shouldn’t act like Chris’ views and anyone else who believes in Social Security is just an ignorant nut. Read Paine’s short pamphlet ‘Agrarian Justice’, it will give you a different perspective of things. He explains why it’s not charity, but it’s justice.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

    1. Citizen

      Jack,
      We are not calling Chris M names, but he is calling the Tea Party names like hateful, bigoted, and extremists.

      Thomas Paine may have had a good idea back then, but FDR social security has become the biggest Ponzi Scheme imaginable. We’ve been paying a whopping 14.3% in of every dollar we’ve earned and its technically bankrupt.
      The National Debt Clock >> http://www.usdebtclock.org/# simply publishes our Debt, most is unfunded.

      Dr Paul and the TEA party are simply trying to draw national to the problem. They don’t need to be demonized by Chris M.

      History is chocked full of nations who have gone down this path of self destruction, we can not avoid the same if we refuse to make major changes soon. But sorry to say Chris M is on board with Big Gov Spending and thinks the government is the solution, we HERE believe that is flat WRONG!

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

      1. Bottomline

        It doesn’t do us any good to have the Government control every aspect of our lives. I want us to be America and I don’t want our country to be like Greece with chunks of government spending and more job losses.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

        1. Jack

          Respectfully, the debt did not start to rise until the 1980s. Over 40 years after we put into place social security. Why did it rise? Well after Reagan cut taxes for the wealthy he nearly quadrupled the national debt, in a matter of a few years turning America from the largest creditor nation in the industrialized world, to the largest debtor nation.

          It’s a fact that Social Security actually would have over a 2 Trillion dollar SURPLUS right now, if money wasnt being taken from that from to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy or the Bush wars. I think Ron Paul even meantions in this clip that he’s supportive of making sure we can’t touch that fund for things other than it’s meant for.

          I’m sorry you feel Matthews is being demonizing towards you and the Tea Party. I guess that explains the animosity towards him on this site.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

          1. Joan

            But, see, 2 trillion would have been in the Social Security fund, and the estimate is that it would cost 40 trillion to pay out what has been promised. That’s why it went under giving it out to only one generation. I remember seeing my rich relatives from the WWII generation live to be almost 100, knowing they paid zero into Medicare in their day, and knowing they paid one half of one percent of relatively low incomes in those days into SS. They got raises every year, many retired at 62 on a shoulder injury, a minor disability, or they never worked, got it because their spouse paid into it, and they drew it from 65-98 or ove 100 years of age. That’s how it went bankrupt. Many of them paid maybe 3,000 into it, and ended up getting 200,000 or more out of it, never mind they got hip replacements, knee replacements, major surgeries, all free to them for paying zero into Medicare. It’s a bad ponzi scheme, pay a few bucks in, collect for 25-35 years. I used to see all of it and think, “this won’t be here when we retire, at this rate, both of these programs are going to go bankrupt.” I used to think how one day the politicians would tell all of us Medicare is trillions in debt. There was no way around it. But, the politicians knew they had 75 million working baby boomers paying into it, and everytime they gave the WWII people a raise, they raised the tax on the baby boomers to pay for it. The politicians knew they had no intention of ever giving 75 million people those same benefits, they played it for all it was worth to get re-elected, now it’s someone else’s problem.

            I must say, I emailed Matthews recently and told him the Tea Party people are only after SS and Medicare, and he’s been talking about it ever since on air. They do read your emails.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          2. 1111cb

            actually its population age shifts not politics causing the problem. Japan has the same issue. The Baby Bomer grew up- there are more people going onto SS and Medicare even if they do not need is and less people of working age to pay in. Plus more people are unemployed so its even fewer paying in and more retiring early. The government made a promise it could not keep- just like the guaranteed pensions. We need to be serious about this and figure the fairest way out – to pay out what we can to those elderly but we need to stop pretending it works or that anyone will get what they paid in. The Tea party says they want what is best for their kids? let them prove it.

            Report this comment

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  18. Bottomline

    Way to go Ron! You tell em who are and what you believe in. I wish I was as calm as you are when someone else argues at me. I agree Matthews is a little too partisan just like the Neo-cons on Foxwhole News.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

  19. Citizen

    Christ Matthew is a common Serial talk show Liberal who has never been able to carry an argument by reason or logic.

    Instead, he relies on S.I.N. by talking fast.
    1. S = “Switch” the subject to confuse and derail the topic
    2. I = “Ignore” facts and skip around to avoid dealing with the facts
    3 N = “Name” call and label the opposition with a slur and insult.

    Matthews talks fast and lose but Dr Paul was factual and concise, especially on the topic where Matthews attempts to argue the “Social Good” to defend government control. Superb response Dr Paul

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

  20. Rylick

    Wow, you could see how differet their moral believes are. That’s the problem with interviews like that. They’ve got so different oppinions that it can only lead to a fight.

    Ron was pretty calmed down. I would have raged so hard about this liberal ideas of having the government intervent in my life.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

  21. Meredith

    Ron Paul is freakin’ awesome! :)

    Hope he runs in 2012!

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

  22. Craig

    Paul is IMPERVIOUS to desperate attempts toward associating him with hypocrisy.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 2

  23. Eric in KC

    I have never had a “hero” in my life before Ron Paul. He is an amazing guy and one of my greatest hopes is that he will run again.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 23 Thumb down 3

  24. Pam Meyer

    I love Ron Paul. He is finally starting to be heard. His ideas to clean up the FED and BIG GOV and tell people like Kennedy did, “ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” What we need to do for our country is take it back, clean house and regroup.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 2

  25. Ryan

    I’ve always been repelled by Chris Mathews; he’s both highly Partisan and highly Liberal. Eek!

    Ron Paul not only withstood his rhetoric and distortions but had some good comebacks too, and he also stayed calm and even humorous. That was Ron Paul at his best.

    Chris Mathews just doesn’t get it. He’s too Partisan and Liberal to understand someone with Principals and Common Sense.

    Mathews goes immediately to insults, starting the interview by saying, “You remind me of my hero growing up, Barry Goldwater, … then I grew up.” What an idiot. What an atrocious way to start an interview. Then Chris Mathews starts finger pointing at the “haters” within the Tea Party movement, as if they are the voice of the whole Tea Party movement. That’s the tea calling the kettle black coming from the guy who starts an interview with a personal insult.

    But Ron just took it all in stride and pointed out the fact that the haters are a small minority, “1%”, of the movement. This was Ron Paul at his best, and Mathews as the typical political bigot that he is.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 23 Thumb down 3

    1. AnthonyC

      Brilliant! This was Dr. Paul doing what he does best. Calmly and intelligently stating his libertarian beliefs in personal liberty, personal responsibility and sound money and fiscal policy.

      Dr. Paul calmly shut down Chris Matthews several times. When Matthews tried to assert that Social Security was necessary for the 65 years old who suddenly finds himself without any savings, Dr.Paul asks whether the frugal person who has been saving and sacrificing should be penalized. Instead he suggests that the first 65 year old (the one without a retirement fund) rely on his family, friends, churches and charities.

      Matthews also tries to school Paul on a little history, referring back to Hoover as someone who cut spending. Paul wasn’t having any of that and Matthews quickly changed subjects when he realized Dr. Paul is as well read in history as he is. Ha!

      I also loved it when Matthews tried to bait Dr. Paul with a gay marriage question and Dr. Paul stunned him by being consistently pro-personal freedom. To paraphrase, “I am conservative, I am married and have kids. But I have my own definition of marriage. I don’t have the right to force my definition of marriage on you.” Matthews was visibly surprised by this: a conservative who was consistent about personal liberty regarding both financial AND social issues. You could see that he had hoped to cause Dr. Paul to falter and was disappointed that he didn’t. As Dr. Paul said, “I apply the rules to social justice as I do to economic justice.” Yeah, something even Obama cannot say he does.

      Dr. Paul, thank you again. Ron Paul 2012!

      Report this comment

      Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 2

      1. Lindsey

        The problem with Matthews is that he didn’t listen to his daddy!!!!!! Go Ron!

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1