20 responses to “Game Over for Fiat Money?”

  1. Jack

    We the people object to an Austrian individualistic anarchist-capitalist society without a state and where the money represents gold. Such society cannot long continue to function on that basis. There will soon come a concentration of power in which a small group of powerful individuals (oligarchs) take all the power because they have more gold than the rest.

    A private bank or a George Soros will become the actual power of a state and build a private army to protect its interests. This will lead to a power struggle among the oligarchs until a few of them are in control. There is nothing to prevent this because all individuals with less capital and less power will be employed by the oligarchs out of self-interest, or develop criminal activities out of frustration and needs.

    Ultimately, you will have a feudal society. And ultimately this will change into a different form of society. Ideal societys do not exist and people will always try to do things out of self-interest, and there will always be people who fight for power and control.

    Mathematically Perfected Economy solves an important and very critical issue, because OUR money (the people´s currency) as a loan is accessible for everyone (who complies with our democratic choosen conditions) WITHOUT INTEREST.

    If he / she is creditworthy and with the product/property securing the loan (our labour and produc(tion) loans are simply issued with NO ONTEREST attached.

    This will push the capital oligarchs (austrians, bankers, and such) out of the game, and they cannot impose no longer their will by just having capital, and therefore gain unlawful and undeserved (usury) profits, because that capital (our true currency) is now available FREE OF INTEREST.

    Loans are retired out of circulation in a timely based manner as per consumtion/depreciation of the product/property where the loan was applied for, and the money is destroyed/deleted from the system.
    No inflation, or deflation. And most of all: no terminal failure!!!

    This preventive approach will also be a major shift in which everyone has equal opportunities with a much broader social base in which crime out of frustration will largely disappear.

    This is the only solution. If we accept anything less we will fail (again)!

    Or in Benjamin Franklin´s words: JOIN, OR DIE

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  2. Jack

    Mr. Paul is wrong on every count when it comes to (monetary) solution.

    Effectively, what Mr. Paul want is to remove the embossed letters which now say “Federal Reserve Bank,” and replace them with “Ron Paul’s ‘COMPETING’ Bank(s)” — a principle which he refuses to debate, further define, or justify. Of course, any ostensible “competition” would ostensibly, on the contrary, drive interest rates down. But Mr. Paul tells us that we wouldn’t have borrowed ourselves into this debt mess if higher rates of interest had discouraged excessive/reckless borrowing.

    Mr. Paul has never done the math: he tells you that all of you are going to benefit somehow therefore — oh and we so willingly believe this preposterous notion, don’t we? — he tells us we will benefit paying perhaps 17% interest on our homes than 5%. Sounds really like a good idea, doesn’t it? Especially since the rate of interest is the rate of multiplication of artificial indebtedness — higher rates of which instead necessitate greater rates of borrowing to maintain a vital circulation.

    Unfortunately, most people who exalt Austrian “economics” hardly know the first thing about it. They reject math — most of which is little more than counting — as if you could understand otherwise; and they could have possibly determined solution otherwise. In no legitimate discipline or walk of life does such reckless abandonment of principle hold.

    But Mr. Hayek, God of the Austrians tells us why they advocate interest and the current banking model — which are our very problem. See Hayek’s article at Mises org: “A Free Market Monetary System,” I think it’s called. Anyway, he thus justifies interest, that it makes banking “an extremely profitable business.”

    That’s right. There IS no justification, just an outright confession of the motive.

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    1. Citizen

      JACK,,

      It really pains me to have to say this in a public forum like this BUT

      YOU ARE WRONG!!!

      Dr Paul wants to End the Fed to stop the COUNTERFEITING policies of the Government.

      Dr Paul wants to return to Sound Money, a bi-metal system pegging the currency to gold and silver as a measure of Control preventing the Government's theft of Private Property.

      BUT you JACK, are advocating Marxist Progressive Economics (MPE) that would simply do the FED in 10 TIMES OVER....
      We've been there, done that... it doesn't work

      I'm sorry, but you don't know jack about economics!

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  3. Marianne

    The problems with Greece are truly a "wake up call". the big problem is "we the People"
    are powerless to change the "system". I know, I know you will say "we still can vote them out" BUT the propganda that spews from the MSM etc. keeps the electorate from
    REALLY KNOWING what's going on. Besides the propaganda there is the indoctrination in our "government" schools and colleges. I am a retired history teacher and political activist for over 35 years of my 78. and find my self arguing with my children and grandchildren. Most don't know history AND aren't interested in finding out. For example, until the US got into WWI we all believed in NO FOREIGN entanglements. That came from George Washington. Woodrow Wilson was reelected on the slogan " He kept us out of war". Then the FED started "messing" with our money.
    Look some of these things up i.e. when did the dollar change from a SILVER CERTIFICATE to a FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE? O ur government was financed by the collection of TARIFF, TAXES on certain articles, LISCENCES and fees UNTIL the FED and the IRS. this was in 1912 & 1913. Then came the FED and the IRS. Now "FREE TRADE" means that INSTEAD of imports etc supporting the government WE PAY and PAY and PAY so that (we are told) we can have "cheap" foreign goods who come PRACTICALLY DUTY FREE. Now do you see how WE THE PEOPLE have been played for the fools? and the government gets BIGGER and BIGGER and BIGGER.

    Many of you have bought into the notion that Glen Beck is some wild extremist. That
    is more PROPAGANDA. Turn on to his TV show BEFORE you jump to conclusions.
    HE IS TEACHING! Of course he talks of current events BUT he gives lectures on HISTORY, ECONOMICS, etc. There are many others. DO YOU SEE what the banks,
    corporations, many of the elected gov't are doing to RON PAUL? It was barely mentioned by only ONE outlet that RON, in a poll taken of 1,200 at a large nat'l rally
    got 41% of the vote to OBAMA's 42%. Why is that not news?

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  4. Richard Weymer

    The real problem is this in one word. GREED. The International Bankers, the Federal Reserve of all countries and the government have taken our real Constitutional money ..gold and silver...and given us fiat currency so they may inflate thus causing the resultant price inflation from which they ,the government, can pay off their debt with dollars of less value. This cycle has occured many time before, but I believe it has reached the end of the road this time. And the reason I say that is becaused of Goldman Sacs. Years ago when the banks were in trouble with the so called "toxic assets", in other words derivatives, they are still on the books to this very day becaused no one wanted them as there were no buyers in the open market and the mark-to-market was trashed. The reason it was trashed was to keep the public from knowing the truth. The banks were insolvent and broke and they still are today. So the accounting rules were so conveniently changed then, letting the banks carry them on their books as the price they paid for them. In other words, No Loss to the banks With the stroke of the pen..bingo. No problem. I mentioned Goldman above because they are the ones responsible for packageing these toxic asset (derivatives) and then selling them to other countries, sovereign debt, knowing all along they were destined to blow up. Well Greece just blew up and no doubt the Lone Ranger (IMF) will come to the rescue. By the way the IMF is supported 70% by the Great Uncle Sugar (USA). Isn't that just wonderful. Just knowing you money is being taxed from you by the IRS and then winds up in the bank of the IMF. Wow!!! what a system. All the while unemployment run higher every month. You now have waiting their turn PII

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  5. Chris the Constitutionalist

    You really think that free market, free-trading, anything related to the word freedom or being free to act upon your birth right of free-will drains this country of cash? How about the endless wars in the middle east, the federal bailout of the bankers, our entitlement system, mandated healthcare, THE FED.
    I would agree that freedom always has negative aspects BUT i would also say to you "The good that comes from freedom far outweighs the bad". AND I KNOW I GOT A WHOLE NATION BEHIND ME SO BACK UP OFF IT!!!!!!! Let's go Ron Paul supporters, Let's get in the game!

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    1. fred the protectionist

      When there is a 700 billion dollar trade deficit in a year, that means 700 billion dollars in cash leaves the country every year. There is only 1,500 billion in cash reserves inside the United States. US citizens would be out of dollars in a little over 2 years (1,500/700=2.?) and forced to barter in pesos and euros if the FED didn't print the money lost from the trade deficit.

      And Chris the "Constitutionalist", before the 16th amendment the Tariff is in the Constitution as thee primary federal revenue generator. (Free Traders love the 16th amendment, it's your baby.)

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      1. EndtheFed

        Fred said: "US citizens would be out of dollars in a little over 2 years (1,500/700=2.?) and forced to barter in pesos and euros if the FED didn’t print the money lost from the trade deficit."

        Which is exactly why America would have to live within it's means and cut out it's unsustainable consumption patterns and remove the massive deficit in the balance of payments. Otherwise they will just keep printing off 700 billion monopoly money dollars every year until the money is so worthless that nobody wants it. You can't have unlimited money because we don't have unlimited resources.

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      2. EndtheFed

        Fred said:
        "the Tariff is in the Constitution as thee primary federal revenue generator"

        Funny how you always "forget" to distuinguish between a real tariff that effects ALL shippers equally and a protectionist tariff designed to prop one industry up at the expense of the american consumer (whom it's meant to protect). Judge a policy by it's results and not by it's intent.

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        1. EndtheFed

          ... And since we`re on the topic of the constitution, go ahead and re-read the general welfare clause while considering the constitutionality of a protectionist tariff. (I'll spell it out for you; everyone is a consumer, not everyone is a supplier in the "protected" industry, therefore protectionist tariffs violate the general welfare clause. Government intervention that benefits the few at the expense of the many is unconstitutional).

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      3. Joan

        The politicians let foreign countries do this to us why? Because the corporations who sent our jobs to foreign countries for cheap labor want this, because the corporations give large campaign contributions to the politicians. So, how are we free at all? We're all poor slaves to the corporaions and politicians, no different than Mexico or any other corrupt government. When the rich screw up or the politicans give everyone a home through FannieMae, the poor middle class lose their jobs over it. The minimum wage is this country should be $16 an hour to be worth what it was worth in the 1970s. Most of middle America is fighting over social security and welfare and other entitlements at this point, a few people are rich, the corporations took our jobs, and all the politicians do is help the corporations and give people socialist entitlements, bankrupt the middle class both ways. All these new taxes the Dems are coming up with are going to bring in billions from the poor, the VAT tax, cap in trade tax, it lets the politicians get close to a trillion dollars a year by taxing every citizen. Then the government will hand the money out to the corporations and to people who are on the government.

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      4. fred the protectionist

        Oh so are you going to put a gun to Americans' head's to "force them to live within their means"; translated means "earn slave wages like the rest of the 3rd world".

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        1. Citizen

          Fred,

          I can tell you haven't traveled much outside the USA.
          Europe is no 3rd world economy...
          South Korea, Japan, Australia etc. are competing without the specter of "slave wages"

          End the FED, and watch the value of the dollar increase and peoples savings go UP

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      5. fred the protectionist

        Libertarian say: "Funny how you always “forget” to distuinguish between a real tariff that effects ALL shippers equally and a protectionist tariff designed to prop one industry up at the expense of the american consumer (whom it’s meant to protect). Judge a policy by it’s results and not by it’s intent."

        I'm a Protectionist, i'm well aware of the many different forms the beneficial pro-American Tariff can come in.

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        1. Citizen

          Fred,

          I'' concede a point to you...
          FREE ENTERPRISE Nationally!

          Tit for Tat regulated trade, we manage our imports a little more closely and coerce the external producers to Build In American to create American Jobs!

          Detroit Economic Free Zone!

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      6. fred the protectionist

        Joan say: "The politicians let foreign countries do this to us why?"

        No, we did this to ourselves because we are a shallow and stupid people. "Free Trade" sounds great cause the word "Free" is in it, so we fall for the propaganda. The big-monied interests are simply better at propaganda and underhanded tricks than their pro-American opponents like Ross Perot or Pat Buchanan.

        But we're still a representative-Republic, the blame inevitably rests upon 'the people'.

        The drop in the standard of living has been gradual, not instant, so the shallow and stupid American people haven't noticed. If the drop in the standard of living were instant, instead of taking 10-20 years, then the shallow and stupid American people would have noticed and taken action by now.

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      7. EndtheFed

        Fred said: "translated means “earn slave wages "

        No, translated means "buy things you can actually afford and don't take loans that you can't pay back"

        Fred said: " i’m well aware of the many different forms the beneficial pro-American Tariff can come in"

        Using the merits of a regular tariff as a defense for a protectionist tariff is like comparing apples to oranges. How convenient that you just forgot to mention that protectionist tariffs are unconstitutional.

        Fred said: "the shallow and stupid American people would have noticed and taken action by now."

        ... Says the guy who defends the federal reserve. The fed has had a hundred years, when will you notice?

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      8. Citizen

        Hey Fred...

        Your right, we can't keep sending $700B over seas annually.

        But protectionism hasn't worked in the past, Smoot-Haley prolonged the Depression until WWII

        How about this:
        Lets create an Economic Free Zone as an experiment...
        In Detroit MI (30 years hands off)
        -No Payroll Taxes
        -Free Open Competition,
        -No Monopolies, that includes Unions too
        -No Property and Equipment Taxes
        -No Corporate Taxes
        -Standard EPA rules apply, but keep it simple, you dirty it, you clean it!

        Lets see who shows up with their CAPITAL to make a go of it???

        I predict an Economic Island of Major Prosperity like Hong Kong

        Any Bets?

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  6. fred the protectionist

    Wrong. The FED has no choice but to print more money cause your beloved Free Trade keeps draining this country of cash.

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    1. Citizen

      Fred,

      So we need the FED to keep diluting our money and spending us into oblivion to save the jobs...?
      Is that what your really saying???

      Well maybe your right, once the USD reaches the valued of the Mexican Paso, we'll be just as poor and more foreign national corporations will build more plants here to USE our cheap labor?

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