52 responses to “Euro Bailout Will Lead To Currency Collapse”

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  10. Jonah Peals

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  11. nag

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  12. Jim

    Puzzled,

    Sir, I sincerely apologize for my tone. I did not realize it would sound malicious when you read it, there was no malice when I wrote it. Sentence #2 was tongue-in-cheek and it was a cheap shot and I welcome you and yours to this country with open arms. I did not mean to attack.

    All the other statements were honest ones and all the questions were legitimate questions and not rhetorical. Perhaps I personalized it and should have generalized it. Would it have been less offensive if you had been reading it as a third party?

    My second reply to you is awaiting moderation (this is my third). I hope the tone is friendly. If not, then I am just not a good communicator. That would be bad, because it would mean that my wife is right.

    Jim

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  13. Puzzled

    End the Fed: I’m on my iPhone now so it is hard to type too much – I really appreciate your comments. I am still trying to figure things out here (in terms of the parliamentary system).
    You’re dead right – regulation is not the only answer. We have a target inflation rate like everyone else and the Reserve Bank (our Fed) is independant. No it doesn’t keep interest rates artificially low. It is a fine line between managing inflation and keeping the money flowing in recent times as you know – but while there was unprecedented wealth flowing about a few years ago our interest rates were going up – while over here they were still incredibly low.
    You and I seem to agree on a lot of things.
    I would be very interested to hear more.
    The wars were terrible. Every time I hear someone say ‘but Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator’, my response is ‘what about Robert Mugabe? He’s 10 times worse!’ Most people don’t even know who he us.
    I just think it is a terrible shame that such a great country such as the US has no balanced reporting, that lobby groups have so much power, and that politicians APPEAR to be preoccupied with being re-elected rather than truly serving their constituents and performing a public service (please tell me if I’m wrong). Is there a cap on political contributions here? So many questions (& I have so many more). End the Fed – I am grateful for the way you responded to me and to my questions. I was almost writing off Mr Paul because of the last response I got…so thank you – I appreciate it.

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    1. EndtheFed

      I agree it is such a shame to watch a once great nation making so many of the wrong moves. I grew up with Canadians and they always had this idea of America as the greatest place in the world. I would like to see that returned to America. You are right about most of the politicians in America, they only care about the short term, and I think that mentality is a large contributor to inflationary decisions. Each president wants to hold off the recession a bit longer so they can be re-elected, and of course we end up with a worse recession as a result. The Fed is said to be independant of political influence, but that is a farce.

      I believe there was a recent Supreme Court case ruling that equates campaign donations to freedom of speech. Another shame. According to that logic, the man with the most money has the loudest speech and the man with little money has none. I believe that to be the opposite of freedom of speech.

      Don’t let the hostile tone of these blogs deter you from participating here. Everyone is all riled up like a pack of rabid dogs because of a few blog “trolls” that just argue for the sake of arguing. Stick around, it was refreshing to have a constructive conversation here for once and we need more real contributors to diminish the troll presence.

      By the way, if you are interested in hearing more about Austrian theories, I’d recommend “What Has Government Done to Our Money” by Murry N. Rothbard. It’s a great little book, and I believe it’s even available for free in audiobook format online.

      »crosslinked«

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  14. Puzzled

    Jim – I’m here because of family reasons. I did it the right way – I will be a good productive law abiding member of society. Don’t attack me – I clearly stated it is a genuine interest to hear what others’ opinions are and also share mine – it’s called a discussion. I respect the laws and way of life here which are not too different from my own county – here’s a newsflash – America is not the only country where people are free. I don’t even disagree with everything here. Did you not even read about where I wrote we had a collapse of a corporate icon 10 or so years ago and there was no bailout? No – I do not agree with invading other countries. My brother in law had to pit his life on the line because of it. I don’t think you are understanding what I am saying or getting at…I thought this was a forum that discussions could be had and ideas be swapped and we (mostly me) learn another point of view. I mistakenly thought I could also have my say and other people might be interested too. I’m sorry if you took offence. This is not the right forum for an exchange of ideas and valid discussions without being nasty. I was not disrepecting Mr Paul or anyone else – just trying to have a discussion – clearly this is not the right place.
    And by the way – my country is Australia – probably the strongest ally this country has ever had – and it is great. I love my country – it’s called the lucky country for a reason. I love this country too. I have been looking for a voice of reason to get behind here but I find your comments so out of line and personally attacking – is everyone here like that – is this representative of Mr Paul’s followers?

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  15. Puzzled

    Hi – I am interested in the viewpoints – but I think you missed my points. Economics is what I do for a living (and have been very successful). It did not take a rocket scientist to look at the dot com bubble et al – there were no sound fundamentals. All I am saying is some government regulation is good. Like I said – where I am from there is more regulation – so there were no bailouts, no bank collapses, no recession. We also have national healthcare. It’s due to government regulation. Markets cannot self regulate and if they try it fails eg Japan. By the way, we had an iconic company collapse 10 or so years ago after years of mismanagement – our government didn’t bail them out – said that government shouldn’t be bailing out private enterprises – and it folded. Life went on. I am saying that regulation does not equal socialism; it is imperative that there be good foreign policy (despite what Americans believe, they are seen as the ‘school bully’ around the world). There is no fair or unbiased reporting in this country, and too many lobby groups who are too self serving. Just an observation. I am very interested to hear about the views of people who are born and bred here – and compare them to ‘outside views’ – it’s a genuine interest of mine. I have no malice – I am interested in all points of view. The only thing I would say is please don’t patronise me about economics – like I said – I have had a long and successful career in this area.

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    1. EndtheFed

      Sure I would be pleased to answer any of your questions to the best of my ability. I believe that one’s perspective of an issue as a whole can always be expanded by considering the views of another. I have a few questions of my own.

      You make a living from economics, but you are not concerned about inflationary policy? Why? How do you explain the negative effects as beneficial? What about legal plunder, government managed wealth re-distribution and the unequal effects on the poor and elderly? Do you think it’s a good idea to rob wealth from the elderly, the widowed, the poor and give their hard earn value to the politically connected (the military-industrial complex)?

      Your country may be in a better position currently due to it’s intelligent decision to let companies fail instead of propping them up (government non-intervention). You would probably agree that it is better to let unproductive industries fail so that the resources they are squandering can be freed up and utilized in a more productive way. If they are making that type of decision, I’d say it’s fairly safe to assume they are not keen on limitlessly inflating their currency either. How do they deal with interest rates there? Does a central bank keep them artificially low so that unproductive companies suddenly seem like profitable business ventures, like in the US? Regulation is not necessarily the only reason your country is better off economically.

      I would agree with you that there are some things government should have control over, but government over-regulation has nearly ruined the US economy. Lobbyists and politicians have turned washington into a giant trough where everyone seeks to “get their share of the loot”. As a result, industries have been unfairly “protected” at the expense of consumers and government size and scope continues to grow endlessly. The only way for the US government to cover it’s liabilities is to endlessly debase the currency. How is that sustainable?

      When it comes to foreign policy we are in disagreement that the President is doing a good job (I think he’s doing Bush 2), but we seem to have some of the same concerns of America becoming seen as the bully. I would argue that America has become the bully BECAUSE of government intervention. If they kept their eyes on their own fries they would stir up a lot less resentment. Classic “blow-back” concept (don’t piss in the wind). Even Governor Bush ran on a humble foreign policy and said “if we are an arrogant nation they will resent us, but if we are a humble nation, and strong, they will welcome us”. What part of “pre-emptive war” is humble? How about 700 military bases across the world? How about troops in half the countries of the world? This is not a sensible foreign policy, especially during times when we cannot afford to pay for our own consumption.

      There is definitly no fair and unbiased reporting here anymore, and that trend is spreading. Canada is much the same way. I am concerned that the study of economics has been “propagandized” just as the media has been. That would explain why Austrian economics gets the ‘cold shoulder’ and keynesianism is still accepted despite it’s shortcomings. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Americans have to go to private school before they hear a thing about monetary policy (thanks to the department of education).

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    2. Jim

      If you are successful in the field of economics, that means you understand and can navigate the current economic system; it does not mean that the current economic system is the best one. If you are judging Ron Paul or Peter Schiff from the perspective of this system, then yes, they are dummies. However, both of these dummies predicted the current economic crisis, Ron Paul as far back (at least) as 2002
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pKb4U5qDsc (this one has a couple of his early predictions) and Peter Schiff as far back (at least) as 2006
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw&playnext_from=TL&videos=aMzEFwugxA0 (This one is soooo funny in today’s context).

      If you are truly interested in researching us funny people and how we think, you will watch several Ron Paul videos and several Peter Schiff videos.

      Jim

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  16. Puzzled

    I am wondering if anyone here (including the esteemed Hon Ron Paul himself) knows any basic fundamentals of economics, or if anyone understands the impact of some of what he says would have on the US in terms of their image globally. I’m an immigrant (a legal one, and a proud one) – I came from a western country and one of the US’ oldest allies – the fact of the matter is true free trade DOESN’T work, no government involvement DOESN’T work – there needs to be MORE regulation here (no, it’s not socialism) – but this country is in recession because of no (or very little) government intervention – where I come from – we are as free as the people here; we give more percentage-wise to countries who are suffering; we have nationalised healthcare – and we had NO recession. The US is a very young country and here’s a newsflash – it’s not the only land of the free. Before anyone would slam my comments, my brother-in-law put his life on the line to fight alongside US troops in a war that we had nothing to do with – but we did it because of a treaty we have (which has been enacted quite a few times by the US). I’m proud to be here, I did it the legal way (which is lengthy and expensive) – but please do more reading. The current President is actually doing a good job. His foreign policy is GREAT (and this is a key issue). I mean no disrespect to Ron Paul’s (or Ron Paul himself) followers – but I am puzzled as to why no-one seems to be doing research and getting a more balanced view.

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    1. EndtheFed

      Puzzled, I take it you are talking about the fundamentals of keynesian economics. The fact is that keynesian inflationary economics is responsible for a lot of the current problems in the global economy. The “experts” that advocate keynesian economics didn’t predict the dot com bubble, the housing bubble or the financial crisis. They all shouted how “sound the fundamentals” are, remember? The reason you don’t see anyone here parroting Paul Krugman’s proposed solutions is because we have realized that they have already been tried, and failed. Look at Japan in the 90s or the US during the great depression. Same “solutions”, same rotten outcome. Keynesians are convinced that the recession is over. Hopefully they are right, but it seems much more likely that we are heading into a currency crisis. Did you think we could just print money whenever we needed it? The flaw in keynesianism can be understood when you have a solid grasp of money and how it works. Governments ignore the flaws because keynesianism puts them into a position of power and prestige.

      On the other hand, there is a school of economics with a theory that was able to both predict and explain the dot com bubble, the housing bubble and the financial crisis. Austrian economics has been proven to be correct time and time again, while keynesianism has failed miserably. We need sound money to have a sound economy.

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    2. Jim

      What country? How do I immigrate there?

      Wait a minute… if that country is so good, what are you doing here? Why would you come here and then want to change this country to mirror yours? If our country becomes just like the others, where can us freedom lovers go then? Nowhere! Can’t you guys just leave us one country with small government and freedom and personal liberty? You can have all the other countries for your social experiments, we won’t bother you or try to change you! And we will welcome those who want liberty to come here. We will be your friend, we will trade with you, we will attend your pot-lucks, and we will mind our own business and not try to impose our philosophy on you. We will pull our military out of your country and bring them home. What’s wrong with that? That is Ron Pauls foreign policy, do you think that invading Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Grenada, Yemen, and whosoever else shall piss us off makes us likable in the eyes of the world? That’s what you get with establishment Republicans and Democrats. Foreign policy did not change with the Democrats in full control of the federal government.

      There has not been “little or no government control” since the very early part of the 1900s. Government control then started increasing and now it is massive. Laws, rules, and regulation are stifling.

      If you think Ron Paul is an economic illiterate, I challenge you to watch 2 hours of video about his economic policies. I know you haven’t, because if you had, you would not say that. I’m serious; watch it. Then I challenge you to watch 2 hours of his video on foreign policy. I know you haven’t, because if you had…

      You may be confusing regulation with law enforcement. Regulations do not prevent
      fraud and corruption. If the government were to enforce the laws we have against fraud and corruption, regulation would be irrelevant.

      Ok. How ’bout some basic arithmetic. If a recession is caused by overspending, then it is not logical to try to get out of the recession by spending more. If a housing bubble is caused by government intervention, it is not logical to impose more intervention. If financial institutions face financial destruction due to their bad decisions, it is not logical to give them money. Let them file bankruptcy. If a health care crisis is caused by government regulation, it is not logical to increase government regulation on health care. The only logical solution to these and other government-caused problems, is to do the opposite of what we have done to cause it.

      Jim

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    3. Bonanzaman

      OK, here is some research for you…..a big problem with government-subsidized (protected) industries, is that they never grow up. The American steel industry has from it’s very inception been subsidized in various ways or protected from foreign competition with tariffs or quotas on imports.After his inaguration in 2001, George W. Bush imposed a 50% tariff on foreign steel. The steel industry had STILL not grown up despite 150 years of trade policy protection. All such protections wind up transferring income from consumers to businesses, and also make the businesses sloppier, less efficient, and less competitive in world markets.

      In the British mercantilist system, the government granted monopolies to certain industries. Monopolies in a particular export business would indeed be more profitable than if there were competition. But the profit comes at the expense of the consuming public, which pays higher prices, and, of potential competitors. Less competitition means less incentives for innovation, cost cutting, etc. So, who benifits from such monopolies? Well, in Britain, it was the king, who granted the monopolies, as he effectively became business partners with the monoplists and shared in a larger amount of loot.

      A complete prohibition of imports is what nations at war attempt to do to each other…….strangle the enemy’s economy with trade embargoes enforced by naval forces. So any suggestion to prohibit imports is essentially a suggestion that Americans do to themselves in peacetime what their enemys hope to do to them during wartime.

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    4. matt

      It’s time to let the weak fail and the strong prosper, it’s time to start the lines around the block for bread, it’s time to seriously reconsider our position and live within our what is now very limited means…

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      1. Joan

        All the people waiting in free food lines are obese. Why don’t we make all of the obese people work for free until they get down to a normal weight so they don’t break the health care system? Make them do the jobs the illegals are doing. That would force the illegals to go back to Mexico and we wouldn’t have to pay them to go to the Biggest Loser Ranch. Save money all the way around.

        We should cut everyone’s food stamps in half when they are obese until the get down to a normal size, then the government will know how much free food stamp money they need to be a regular weight. Michele Obama is trying to stop childhood obesity, one-fourth of children in this country are on food stamps, so maybe cutting the food stamp allotment in half and not letting people use their food stamp card at McDonalds and 7-11 would be a good start.

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  17. Charlie

    No Fred, I was not being sarcastic. I still await something besides a simpleton reply to the comparison of protectionism vs. free trade. There are some differences I know you will be able to explain. Here is a hint…….nawh, you do it.

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Reply button, top right. Check it out.

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  18. Bottomline

    Fred until You can come up with a better idea of how to solve our national debt don’t bother to critcize us RP supporters. Gold is a great way to build wealth and not have to worry so much about losing wealth. Now what about investing in Silver? That might also be a great investment.

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Libertarian say: “Gold is a great way to build wealth”

      Gold is an inanimate rock that does nothing. You can’t eat it, you cant wear it, you can’t build a house out of it. Mercantilist.

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      1. EndtheFed

        Gold has emerged on the market as one of the most marketable mediums of exchange for 6000 years. The more marketable a good, the more useful it is as a medium of exchange.

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      2. fred the protectionist

        Gold isn’t as marketable as it use to be.

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      3. Citizen

        That’s correct Fred, you don’t use a scarce precious metal to build houses when bricks and lumber are better suited materials.

        BUT
        Gold is a great commodity to Hold a LYING Government Accountable.
        Currency tied to GOLD…
        STOPS Government from printing endless COUNTERFEIT Federal Reserve Notes.

        Its that Simple…

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  19. fred the protectionist

    Military production during World War II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II#Summary_of_production

    Let’s congratulate the free traders in arming China with a military industrial complex and other future US enemies. China use to have a military industrial complex of an Italy or Hungary of WW2, now it has a military industrial complex of a Soviet Union or United States of WW2.

    Good job free traders, how many millions of Americans are going to die in a future war because you wanted to make a buck off cheap foreign labor. Let’s all give the free traders a round of a applause for their treachery against MANKIND!

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    1. Charlie

      Wow Fred, I’ve never heard it explained so succiently. And the Wikopedia link…..well that was just darn brilliant. And now your comparison please.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        Oh so you’re being sarcastic because you can’t read a simple spreadsheet and/or comprehend data.

        okey dokey.

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    2. Citizen

      Fred,
      Its “Free Marketers” aka Libertarians who believe in LIMITED small government.
      aka Austrian Economics

      We like Ron Paul because he agrees with you that we should stop supporting the Imperialist Military Industrial Complex which likes to sell our outdated technology to 3rd world countries to boost their bottom line, aka greed!

      Hey the ChiComs also insist on pegging their yuan $0.14 dollar to their 1 yuan when it’s actually worth $0.84+ dollar, but that would ruin their massive world Export business.

      I think the ChiComs should let their yuan “float” like a normal Free Market.
      BUT guess what they are “Communists” and they don’t believe in Free Markets EITHER
      WHAT A MINUTE Fred….

      The ChiComs ARE “Protectionists”
      They are keeping their yuan artificially low to PROTECT their massive export business to the world. A perfect example of PROTECTIONISM in action, how’s that working for you, us?
      You should be elated to know this right, or are you?

      Free Markets naturally resist artificial contrived “protectionism” and in a “True Free Market” the ChiComs wouldn’t be able to continue to sell their artificially cheap stuff at the expense of American jobs.

      So Fred… are you a ChiCom Protectionist?
      or just an ordinary Marxist Protectionist??

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  20. fred the protectionist

    Wohoo! Ron Paul wins 2nd place in another poll:

    http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/20/which-gop-candidate-do-you-support/

    I’m so happy *claps hand like a retard*

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    1. Charlie

      Fred, instead of attacking and insulting people commenting here, I’d be most interested to hear your explanation of protectionlism compared to free trade. You seem to have unlimited free time on your hands. Please elaborate to the limit of your intellect and you may enlighten everyone.

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      1. EndtheFed

        Good call, Charlie.

        I too will be waiting patiently for the miracle of enlightenment that Fred seems to be so eager to provide for us.

        (Don’t hold your breath, I’ve already engaged him on his positions and all he can come up with is “Free trade bad, me tarzan”.)

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      2. fred the protectionist

        Oh C’mon that poll of 2007 is hillarious. Fred Thompson and Ron Paul win big time, and look who got the least amount of votes? McCain.

        It’s funny, you guys have no sense of humor at all, period end of story, nadda.

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  21. fred the protectionist

    That’s right the Dollar can’t carry the whole world, but with free trade that’s what happened.

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    1. EndtheFed

      Wrong. That’s what happened because of inflationary monetary policy and the world reserve currency system.

      There would be no 700 billion dollar deficits to begin with if we never went off the gold standard and adopted inflation as a policy.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        Oh so instead of exporting 700 billion dollars in paper, you’d export 700 billion dollars in gold bullion. *does thumbs up with retard look on face*

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      2. EndtheFed

        The difference is that we can’t print 700 billion in gold.

        Which means with no Fed printing press we would be forced to live within our means.

        For a guy who rants about the trade deficit so much, wouldn’t ‘no trade deficit’ be a good thing?

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      3. fred the protectionist

        No it means you’d drain the treasury of gold in less then a year and we’d be back on paper money. You would accomplish nothing but emptying US coffers of all gold and probably silver too cause your nuts and you can never see the writing on the wall.

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      4. EndtheFed

        Broken record.

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    2. Citizen

      Fred,
      Hey the ChiComs insist on pegging the currency $0.14 dollar to their 1 yuan when it’s actually worth $0.84+ dollar, but that would ruin their massive world Export business.

      I think the ChiComs should let their yuan “float” like a normal Free Market.
      BUT guess what they are “Communists” and they don’t believe in Free Markets EITHER
      WAIT A MINUTE Fred….

      The ChiComs ARE “Protectionists”
      They are keeping their yuan artificially low to PROTECT their massive export business to the world. A perfect example of PROTECTIONISM in action, how’s that working for you, us?
      You should be elated to know this right, or are you?

      Free Markets naturally resist artificial contrived “protectionism” and in a “True Free Market” the ChiComs wouldn’t be able to continue to sell their artificially cheap stuff at the expense of American jobs.

      So Fred… are you a ChiCom Protectionist?
      or just an ordinary Marxist Protectionist??

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  22. Jim Bulgier

    Anthony,
    It’s not a ridiculous medium because it is finite, unlike fiat currency, and it stores more easily than rice. It doesn’t rust either, so it is better than trading in cars or tractors.

    That said, Ron Paul does not necessarily think that gold is the best medium. In fact, I think he supports multiple mediums, at least philosophically.

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Doesn’t matter what the “medium” is used, with a 700 billion a year trade deficit then those “mediums” will be exported instead of paper.

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  23. Anthony Topper

    I tend to agree with RP on a lot of things, but gold is just a shiny rock from the ground. It’s a ridiculous medium to exchange wealth in.

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    1. EndtheFed

      Why is a sheet of paper from a tree less ridiculous than a shiny rock from the ground?

      One benefit of gold over paper is that it cannot be instantly diluted. Mining gold is a costly and time consuming process. Gold is therefore a much more “sound” currency than paper. Being forced to use paper money means there is no way to protect your wealth from confiscation through inflation.

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      1. Libertarian777

        but green paper makes me so much happier than a heavy gold rock!

        its got a smiley face on it, that yellow rock thing shines, and only if its clean can i see my own smiley face as a reflection.

        I might be happier with pink paper slips!

        (or blue paper slips now!)

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    2. Citizen

      NOT SO… Anthony Topper,

      Our currency could be “backed by gold” without having to carry it around in our pockets.

      We used to have Gold and Silver Certificates, “Payable to the Bearer on Demand in Silver or Gold”

      But now all we have is Federal Reserve Notes… soon to be worth less than the paper their printed on.

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