Ron Paul: U.S. Shouldn’t Support Israel’s Gaza Blockade




Show: Imus in the Morning
Channel: Fox Business
Date: 06/03/2010

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  1. the reason why israel has the blockade on gaza and the seperation wall near the west bank is to protect the jews in israel and all israeli citizens from this shit.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cERo8I4HZNQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPU4UN03t7E

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  2. we NEED to support Israel.

    it's both scriptural and common sense.

    that boat floatilla in which israel was instantly dubbed the bad guys, did not tell the whole story.

    the individuals who orchatrated the whole thing are the self-proclaimed terrorists, bill ayers and his wife, along with code pink and a few other revolutionists. literally.

    they own the group, "free gaza," and collected the terrorists to jump on the ship that israel had to search, just as if the u.s. had to do the same thing if palestine was sending a ship full of stuff to new york harbor.

    israel got ambushed. they ended up having todefend themselves.

    the media??? they twisted the truth, as usual.

    except for fox news.

    watch out for bill ayers, his wife, code pink, which literally financially supports al queda's widows and purposely turns it's back on the terrorists and accuses our guys of being the terrorists.

    really twisted people.

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  3. The USA owes Israel nothing. If somebody wants to kill innocent Palestinians, let them go over to Israel and enlist in their army and die for that state. For that matter, we owe nothing to any country. We do owe ourselves the best we can be, and that has nothing to do with Israel.

    The Biblical references from those who preach killing Palestinians are not real Christians. Jesus said that if you harm these little ones, it would be better for you if you had a millstone around your neck, and you were pushed into the sea.

    It's outrageous that the "Christians" on this board advocate killing Palestinian children. Instead of Christians, these people are child-molestors, and child-killers.

    Another outrage is that these artificial Christians worship Israelis, instead of finding hope in Jesus.

    I support Ron Paul, the only real Christian candidate for the GOP presidential nomination, back in 2008.

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    • sadly, you do not understand scripture on this.

      israel was ambushed.

      if ron paul does not understand the history of israel, that's to his dismay.

      the u.s. should, should support israel.

      free gaza is a group formed by bill ayers. it is a terrorist group aimed for the destruction of god's chosen people.

      in the end, god will protect his people.

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      • Wrong. The chosen people are those who ''chose'' Jesus.
        It has nothing to do with race. God is not a racist.

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      • Screrw the Bible and all its babble...The truth is right here and right now!The U.S. should not aid or support any government whose main objective is to destroy innocent people (men, women , children) by denying them the basic essentials for life.

        Wrong is wrong even when every one is doing it.
        Right is right even when only one person is doing it.

        Sometimes your best friend is the one who doesn't side with you.

        All you so called Christians and Jews slay me with your "choosen one" rhetoric. There isn't a one of you that fully understands the Bible. You take bits and passagess and string them together in order to conviently fit your political stance.

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  4. Though I'm generally a Ron Paul supporter, I don't agree with his views on this issue.
    The Palestinians aren't starving nor are they in anything like concentration camps.
    Israel must protect itself and prevent additional missiles from being brought into the country under the guise of humanitarian aide.
    There is a reason Israel is blockading Palestinian ports though allowing these same shipments to off load in Israeli ports where they can be verified as not containing weapons or explosives.
    For those of you not familiar with ocean going ships, one could effectively hide many tons of contraband within the hull and under the bilge.
    Israel is right in protecting it's citizens just as we are right in checking all shipments crossing our southern boarder.

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    • When was the last time you visited a Palestinian camp? You're right. They are not exactly concentration camps. They're Ghettos just like the ones the Nazis confined Jews to during the 1930s and 40s.

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    • Oh sure, the Isreali Government should be trusted because they are fair, just and without prejudice.

      It would do you well to read Edward Said (sigh eed) After the last Sky: Palestinian Lives.

      If the United States is going to intervine it should always be to encourage nonviolent resolution, to discourage oppression, and unite cultures; not aid and support a government whose main objection is to defeat and destroy the lives of innocent people by denying them the basic needs for life, and the slaughter of innocent people.
      Our support of Isreal is discusting...We are supporting tyranny!

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  5. For the last decade I hear constant preaching about how we are a judeo-christian people and how israel is god's people and how they are our brethren.
    Why?
    Didn't anyone notice that before congress decided to send my children overseas to defend their oil interests they allied themselves with a christian bashing media and had no love or sympathy for ''crazy right wing redneck christians''
    Now suddenly my congressional leaders and the news outlets and tv evangelists are allied.
    They embrace christians but with a twist. Now we are the beloved brethren of the israeli nation. OT quotes are supposed to scare us into believing that I will endure a curse if my children don't fight for israel.
    I'm not afraid of any curse.
    Jesus is my saviour.
    Ephesians says ''we don't wrestle against flesh and blood''.
    I don't need to war for israel (which by the way helps leaders protect their oil interests)
    It's a ploy.
    I can be a Christian and stay out of the middle east conflict.
    We all can.

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  6. I was pretty much on board with Ron Paul until those comments. The Bible clearly states "I will bless those that bless you, and curse those that curse you". Ibelieve there are two reasons the US is not a pile of dust today. 1) our pulpits-we send out more missionaries and Christian Literature then any other nation. 2) Our support of the Jewish State. We are slipping further and further into an immoral nation. And as our loyalty to Israel fades, so do we. Our 2 party system or 3 (if you count libertarians) have failed us. The bottom line is that man will never be able to govern himself. I'm an escapist. I'm looking for my ruler to come through the clouds on a white horse. Until then, I'll pray for all our leaders. And all leades around theglobe. But I know how it all ends up. Things are not going to get worse before they get better. They are going to get worse before it gets catostrophic.

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    • Todd,

      Maybe you missed the bit about doing onto others, and thou shall not kill part.
      Perhaps in your world, putting 1.5 million people in an open prison, denying them access to basic goods, and condemning them to a slow death is the Christian thing to do. There is a difference between self defense, and spiteful hateful vengeance. Does Israel need confiscate wheel chairs and shoes, vital medicines, diapers etc in order to protect itself? Even school books, crayons, coriander is banned by the Israeli's. It's an absurd list of items that has nothing to do with defence.

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      • It's pointless to enter into an argument with you if you think that Israel is refusing these needed items to Gaza. Are you an American? Israel is surounded by nations that want to wipe them out. Read Ezekiel 38 and 39 and maybe it will shed some light on it for you. Also, when you attempt to quote scripture, try to read it first. It says Thou Shalt not commit Murder. Killing in self defence certainly is not murder. 1.5 MM people elected a terrorist organization to be there leader.

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        • Todd,
          I can assure you that I get my information from a number of different sources, INCLUDING Israeli publications. (See Haaretz).
          Where do you get your information from? You seem to have a romanticized view of Israel based on a particular interpretation of the bible going back the the 1800's. Again, there's no point in arguing with you. I'm well aware of your particular brand of Theology.

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        • AMEN! you hit the nail on the head.

          people need to becareful when using the word revolution.

          there is a group of people, headed by bill ayers and his wife, called the revolutionists.

          their goal is the destruction of israel and take over of the u.s.
          in order to get there, they have some very nasty things to say about 25 million u.s. citizens who are in their way in order to conquor america.

          the pro-israel comments need to out-number the anti-israel comments.

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    • Todd doesn't the Bible also say ''I will call you by a new name'' and ''I will make you jealous of a people who are not a nation'' (I'm paraphrasing). God says that to the Jewish people in the OT
      Then forward to the NT
      Doesn't Jesus , when told his mother and brothers are outside, respond in one of the gospels by saying ''who are my mother and brother? they are those who do the will of my father which is in heaven''
      Isn't there a passage in , um, Romans I think that says ''in Christ there is no free or slave or Jew or Greek but we are all one'' (again I'm paraphrasing)
      Anyway.
      I think if we believe the Bible (and I do) then we can be a blessing to the Jewish people by telling them about Jesus.
      I don't think I need to strap weapons on my children and send them overseas to defend a piece of land in order to be a blessing.

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    • Todd, you are misinterpreting Scripture. Under the New and Everlasing Covenant, the Jewish peoiple are no longer the Chosen People, the Church (all Christians) of Jesus Christ are. Israel has absolutely no role whatsoever to play in God's plan of redemption today, and there is no difference between Jew and Greek (Gentile). Of course God loves the Jewish people deeply, and wantss to see them saved, but He is the Creator of all life, and He loves the Palestenian people equally, and He is the one who has placed not one nation but two in the Holy Land. He did this for a reason, and the Israeli attempts to destroy the Palestenian people and their right to a nation is eveil at the core of its being.
      On the contrary, the United States is under judgment for it, as we can see.

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    • Funny how you quote the old testiment...you're forgetting the part where the jews opposed jesus and accussed him of blasphomy and he referred to them as "vipers" and further stated that their father is satan the devil. So Jesus stood against the jews. That would logically make Christians oppose the Jews blood thirst for power.

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  7. You do realize that Hamas does not recognize Israel's right to exist, right? The 2 state solution is moot as long as they are in a constant state of war. A blockade is a fair method of war and can be defended according to the laws of the sea, including neutral merchant ships.

    Israel is at war with Hamas, the elected leaders of that part of Palestine. Just as the Allies were at war with the elected Nazis. Since the blockades, suicide bombings have been greatly reduced (has there even been any recently?). What used to be a monthly occurrence of a bus or school blown up has been reduced to the threat of much less damaging and inaccurate rockets lobbed in desperation by Hamas.

    It is successful in the fact that Israeli citizens - Jew/Druze/Muslim/ Christians - don't live with the thought of a market blowing up every weekend. The Palestinians are suffering, but ultimately that's the point. You elected a group of thugs (who btw kill hundreds of their own people in faction wars) who want the destruction of Israel - not a stalemate or peace agreement.

    Where's everyone's hatred for Egypt/Lebanon/Jordan who all share borders with various Palestinian camps and yet refuse entry to the Palestinians? Jordan kicks out thousands of Palestinians every year and owns 78% of the Palestinian mandate. Egypt also blockaded Hamas, until it became politically incorrect 2 weeks ago.

    War sucks. War results in death and misery.

    I am unsympathetic to their crying over losing a war they voted for.

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    • yes- it is in the bounds of war. But the nature of war has changed and it is now a war fought in more subtle ways. You win the blockade, but now every group against Israel draws more recruits. Hamas does things like hide behind civilians to make Israel look evil, but when Israel plays along instead of getting international support from countries like Turkey before they act, then it backfires in the long run. Palestinians then turn to Hamas in droves over more moderates because Hamas succeeded causing a blockade that would have helped the everyday Palestinians. Then Hamas comes in with aid as the good guys and people who care nothing for politics, then elect Hamas as leaders. Israel would be better off taking the lead in rebuilding to take control of it.

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  8. NEVER AGAIN, NEVER AGAIN!!!!! MY brother we need to influence the people in congress and in the kennesit on the foreign aid so we can stop this madness! According to Theodore Herzl Israel is supposed to be a soveriegn Jewish nation. Soveriegn and this foreign aid is making israel weak in so many ways. Dont leave the campaign for liberty! we need people like Dr. paul in congress to end the aid and all of the arab nations and the world would be cut off. My brother he is not anti semetic remember MR. Paul defended our right to defend ourselfs when the iraqi reactor was destroyed in the 80's. This message is to the guy named liberty on our chat. We cant rely on the traitors in AIPAC to end the aid or any other organization. WE need DR. Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    • I can't support a person who states that Israel is preventing food and medicine from entering Gaza. It is a lie. I still remain a Libertarian, but Dr. Paul has crossed the line.

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      • Why do you believe this is a lie?

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        • It would be very time consuming for me to prove it to you in this format. As a minimum, though, Dr. Paul must provide evidence that Israel is preventing food and medication from entering Gaza, before stating it. Libertarians believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

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        • I was assuming that you had already done the research. Since you stated that it was a lie, you must have done the research to reach that conclusion.

          Should you come up with evidence of this lie, I will definitely check it out.

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        • Although I live in the US, I have many dealings with Israel. I have traveled to Israel before and on one occasion I even received special clearance to enter a secret military facility. I have friends in the Israeli army and have traveled to hostile neighborhoods in the Gaza and West bank. I am very familiar with how the IDF functions; I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I know that what Dr. Paul said is a lie. But if Dr. Paul claims he has evidence to the contrary, the burden of proof is on him. If you make accusations, you must provide evidence; innocent until proven guilt.

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        • At about 2:06 Imus tells him that Israel is letting relief aid through.

          http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/06/09/from-an-idf-soldier-who-was-on-the-flotilla/

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/jihad-flotilla-activists-deliberately-sought-the-clash.html

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      • Israel is preventing the free flow of trade into Gaza, which includes food and medical supplies. They do allow humanitarian aid in of course, but rationed. Do not forget, that palestinians are people too, and have the same inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as the Jews do--heck, even as you do. By blockading Gaza and making them completely dependent humanitarian aid from Israel, the palestinians in Gaza are being denied those basic human rights.

        Quite frankly, I am sympathetic for the Palestinians. All they want back is the property that was taken from them in 1948. Property rights form the core of libertarians ideals, and therefore should be enforced. I am sorry that you do not agree, but from an Objectivist point of view, the Palestinians have the moral high ground.

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        • I guess since Gaza has been such a kind neighbor to Israel, we should all leave well enough alone. the thousands of bombs, the death to Israel chants must all be propaganda. Were we wrong to stand up to Hitler? Did he have the moral high ground? The Jews are the most persecuted race on the face of the earth. They have the right to security and America needs to support that right.

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      • Israel's policy has been, don't starve them but put them on a diet. Yes, they do allow a limited amount of humanitarian aid, but it is the bare minimum to keep people alive. Only the basics like flour, sugar, oil etc. Do some research before repeating IDF statements. Even the Israeli media knows what the policy is, and a lot of people there don't agree with it.(go to Haaretz newspaper web site). The only people thriving in Gaza are the smugglers, and Hamas who taxes them. All the legitimate businesses have been bankrupted.
        In the United States it seems, it's OK to be Un-American but don't dare criticize Israel.
        Did you know that Ronald Reagan supported a number of UN resolutions condemning Israels actions. It's called tough love, to have the courage to take your friend aside and tell him he has gone too far.
        We're not seeing that these days because the Republican party has been taken over by fools, deluded religious people and traitors.
        To think that Israels interests and America's interests are identical is just plain false. America's interests are to maintain peace and stability in the middle east, Israels interests are total victory and conquest over the Palestinians. These interests simply are not compatible, and put this country and her citizens at risk.

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  9. Dr. Paul, I am extremely disappointed in you comments about Israel. I have been a vehement supporter of yours in the past and will always be a stanch supporter of liberty. You were my last hope; you were the only congressman that I thought got it. It is clear now that you are just like them, ignorant and inconsistent. Attempts to exterminate the Jews have been many though out history. The Jews have finally decided to defend themselves and there you go and join the ranks of BBC and Reuters to spew ridiculous accusations. You say they don’t allow humanitarian aid into Gaza. I expected that comment from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. They do allow aid into Gaza, they just inspect the cargo for weapons first. If the government of Mexico would have fired 6,500 indiscriminant missiles into the US, I think you would agree that the US should respond; and not with paintball guns either, like the Israeli commandos who boarded the flotilla did. But when the Jews defend themselves you believe that there is injustice. There is no point in trying to explain Israel’s actions to an anti-Semite, no matter how much evidence I provide there mind will not be changed. I therefore am leaving your camp and seeking a real believer in Liberty to support.

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    • Obviously an Israeli pretending to be a Paul supporter--quick, Dr. Paul, change your stance! You just lost one!

      As far as I'm concerned Israel can do anything it wants--just not on my dime. Keep your long, slimy fingers out of my pocket! Stop picking my pocket!

      This foolish crap puts America in the crossfire. But of course you don't want to see it that way. In your mind it's poor pityful me. It's all because I'm a jew. NO! it's because of the way you behave. If you keep walking the same path, you will get to the same place, understand?

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      • Glen, I am not an Israeli and I never advocated that the US giving money to Israel. As a Libertarian I am a non-interventionist. The US is the one giving financial aid to everyone to gain control; this does not benefit Israel, quite the opposite. The people you should take issue with is the US Government and it's socialistic agenda. America is putting itself in the crossfire. You have the whole thing backwards.

        I am a Jew and I ask for no pity. I just like you have the right to defend myself. Israel just like any other country has the right to defend itself. The path we followed in the past was to walk unarmed into the gas chamber. We have changed paths - for good!

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      • you obviously do not understand israel's circumstances.

        what ron paul said is sad.

        and even though i may get 12 thumbs down on this and maybe one thumb up,

        that's o.k.

        I know I stand with, with israel, God's chosen people.....that is, those who will receive His son...Jesus, the messiah, soon coming King.

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  10. am using my real name -- voted for you in new hampshire primary -- will back you in 2012

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  11. to all the jew haters israel will survive and prosper! I agree with rep. paul that the us shouldn't be involved and do any of you jew haters realize that ending foreign aid to israel would be the best thing that happened to them ever since there independence? As a zionist jew i look at this policy option strategically and i happen to agree with rep. Pauls stance on non interventionist foreign policy. 1. Israel can make there own weapons and most of them are the best in the world. 2. Israels economy is turning more capitalistic and stronger that the foreign aid gives the US an excuse to boss israel around on her soveirgnty and basically everything. And many israelis knows this and when rep. paul was running for president according to one poll 80% of the israeli jews polled seem to favor rep. Paul over anybody else! Me personally I donht want to have missles being poored in at civilians. But one question is that the israeli millitary has 3 systems that can shoot down missles and obliterate them in the sky. Why haven't the israelis installed these systems on the gaza and lebanon borders?

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    • sorry, the u.s should, should support israel and not stay nutruel.

      it's scriptural. to those who will receive God's one and only Son, Jesus, the name above all names.

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  12. So are you anti Israel individuals saying that if Mexico was firing missles / rockets at the USA , you would be against sealing the border and establishing a blockade?

    I think not...double standard by anti semites and liberal godless unbelievers....or possibly apostate christians.

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    • I agree with your policy point. I am put off by the condescension shown by your second paragraph. I am not morally or intellectually inferior to you by virtue of being a godless unbeliever; and history is against the insinuation that any one religion has practical-moral insight due to their religion. I am happy to be an ally of many religious people (and in fact to love several of them), but my allies all can and do justify their arguments with universal human values. The rigorous study and practice of ethics (at least in the Western world) began with the Greek polytheists, not with your favorite religion.

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  13. Ron: If it's not your business to be involved in foreign policy and actions - then, do not comment. We must allow (and your silence/comments must allow) Israel to look after it's own interests. God forbid, the US is is smearing them enough. If we are neutral, we should sound neutral. That is, no comments.. even though Israel is being assailed from all sides by people who would do the same to the US - given the chance. Just MHO

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  14. Keep waking the world
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKaS6wkvNNk&feature=player_embedded

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  15. It's not our war.
    We don't belong there.
    American soldiers are human beings. These men and women are loved and they belong in the USA.

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  16. I think we should stay out of Israels affairs--100%! The international jewery has plenty of money, as well as Christian Fundamentalists; let them support Israel!
    But no, they want to bribe slimy polititians with hundreds of millions to extract billions from the American taxpayer. They have no conscience and they have no mercy. They will squeeze as much as possible from who ever they can get it from to advance themselves with no concern or consideration of the effects that will have on others or their society--truly an evil lot!
    If they weren't getting money from us, money that we don't have, money we have to borrow and our children will have to payback, money that they so happily and greedily manipulate away from us, they would have to conduct themselves in a less brutish manner. They behave as a naughty little child who's daddy gives them anything they want, all the money they need to do anything they like, and when they get in trouble it's always the other guy's fault, and there's Daddy to the rescue to take up for little Junior and continue to support his misbehavior. One day Daddy may not be around, and then there'll be rotten, little Junior all by himself, surrounded by enemies, because he never behaved in a manner that created friendship-- only bribery, swindling and heavy-handed thuggery.

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  17. I'm with Paul as far as his judgements are based upon libertarianism. And I can't disagree with him that, though we don't wish to be, we are involved. But he is clearly ignorant about Islamic Jihadists. There is video evidence of these "humanitarians" yelling Islamic battle cries, and more evidence will flow for the next few months, for anybody who cares about real evidence.

    I would have thought that Ron would be smarter than to just accept the politically correct perspective of CNBC, Al Jazeera et. al., who start with the simplistic assumption that if soldiers fight non-soldiers then the soldiers are the ones seeking violence. It is counter to American common sense, but do a little research and you will find that normal motivations like to live-and-let-live just do not apply to Islamic fundamentalists (plus, anybody who understands Islam knows that, unlike our other religions, fundamentalism is essential to all mainstream schools of Islam).

    Yes, joining in battles on the other side of the world is counter-productive, but that does not mitigate the fact that there is consensus among every widespread school of Islam that non-Muslims should, and eventually will be, subservient to Muslims. If we are forced to pick allies, at least choose that aren't praying for your demise and the destruction of the most basic of civil liberties. If civilized countries would stop funneling money to the Islamic countries and joining in their fallacious PR campaigns, then they would go back to bemoaning our success, biding their time, and eating sand sandwiches.

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    • Degrading other people's religions makes you sound dumb and discredits anything else you have to say.

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      • That's interesting, Wonka. You think that Blaine is degrading someone's religion. I don't see how, it just seems that he's mentioning some harsh truths about the "religion of peace".

        But of course you didn't find Tim's anti-Christian anti-Jewish comments to be an issue. Huh. I see.

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        • opps, sorry, missed Tim's comment, wait there a minute, I'll take care of this...

          Dear Tim,

          STFU

          Love Wonka

          K, I'm back.

          And huh, NO, you don't see: the point is not to put one religion against another (as in you accusing me of being an Islamist sympathizer because I bashed blaine and missed Tim)

          I have a vidio for you Ben. It's not propaganda so watch it completely.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VySTJMgFeEE

          I'll be online for a while here

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        • Please please please don't make us U.S. look Dumb to the whole world. The whole world condemned this fascist action by Israel. unless we think smarter then the rest of the world but if we think that way, wouldn't that make us fascist too? So lets us U.S. stay away from the Stinky State of the Israel (S.S.Israel)

          Here is the list of the countries are whom condemned this coward action.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Gaza_flotilla_raid

          Paul put it best we shouldn't be involved.

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          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 9

      • Wonka: With respect to criticism-of-Islam making an argument unworthy-- what a cowardly stance. Muslims not only criticize non-Muslims by virtue of their religion, but their (Muslim) religion obligates them to strip non-Muslims of many of the rights that form the basis of libertarianism whenever it is possible. This is clearly written in their sacred books, and they prove their sincerity today with every instance (over 100) of Sharia in Muslim and mixed countries the world over. Every instance of Sharia puts the force of the government behind the subjugation of non-Muslims and of Muslim women. The Muslims spit in your face and shXX on your rights, say that your mother and your daughter should be punished if they act equivalent to men, and you have so little respect for yourself, women, and basic human rights that you just smile and pontificate about respect for others' religion.

        Here is a thought experiment where the consequence would certainly follow if the reader acted as proposed. You move yourself and your family to any area where Muslims have succeeded in attaining the FULL support of the law in force... i.e., where Muslims have achieved complete Sharia according to the consensus of Islamic legal experts... If your mother converts to Sharia and then a year later changes her mind and sticks to her de-conversion, the Muslims will be under obligation to kill her. I do realize that at this point in time Sharia is not in full effect in the Sharia enclaves in European countries-- you have to go to a real Islamic country for that (only because people like Wonka have so far not succeeded in making our laws less discriminatory to Muslim blood-thirst). Allowing Muslims to murder people like that will only happen in the US if people like Wonka fight for Muslim barbarity against defenders of freedom.

        Jefferson, Paine, etc. al. fought Britain primarily for rights of property. The threats of the enemy of that time pale compared to what Muslims would impose on us. Compare taxation-without-representation with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBNPStCb6Uo&feature=player_embedded . That is not an isolated incident, just as acts of Islamic terrorism are not isolated incidents. The motivation behind them is enshrined in law in Islamic nations. It takes an empty PC suit to respect the US Founding Fathers and then, lacking the courage to even verbally defend freedom, instead cheer lead for Muslims who fight for the subjugation of women and non-Muslims.

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        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

        • Of course, I do not approve of or sympathize with any of the abhorent tendancies you've ascribed to Muslim's. And of course beliefs do lead to actions so if I condem an action I must also trace it back to it's origions and condemn the belief.

          Take, for instance, the Catholic Church. A brief study of it's history yields a horror story equivalent to the one you just told. Now I cannot believe that every Catholic that ever lived supported this barbarism. Just the same, it is not true that every "Muslim" intentify's with or supports the idiocy of established Muslim culture. I would bet that the "consensus of Islamic legal experts" (do you mean LAWYERS?!) that you refered to is merely a "consensus" of the most corrupt of the bunch. Tell me, would you let the BAR association speak your beliefs on your behalf?

          As far as the issue we started with I do believe you've invented my position considerably. Where exactly did I say that I would tolerate one act of violence against myself or my loved ones if the perpetraitor was Muslim?? Or when did I say that I approved of anything Israel did? I am saying get to the point: an immoral action is an immoral action, if you want to stick by your guns and say that the Islamic religion is inseparable from evil go for it. But take one good look at THIS COUNTRY as it would appear to an outsider who only looks at the the supervisible actions of the government! They would declare it evil, but they would make quite a mistake if they concluded that their superfial view applied ad infinitum to the human beings living in the system.

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        • Amazing how people can be strident with their views at the same time they admit to both ignorance on the topic and intellectual laziness.

          For people who want to understand reality, instead of concluding "I would bet...", based on pure ignorance of the subject matter, spend an hour to inform yourself about the inherent fundamentalist nature of Islam as it exists in the world today.

          Compare the theology and politics of large (> 1,000,000 followers) Christian and Islamic sects/schools/organizations. In a library or on the Internet, you can easily find documents where adherents lay out the tenets of their own religion. Among large Christian organizations, you will find insurmountable differences on practical interpretation about just about everything. Among large Muslim organizations (including those which "run" the legal system in several Islamic countries), you will find consensus on all of the points discussed here.

          If you are especially curious, look up exactly what the differences are which cause the fighting between Sunnis, Wahhabis, Shi'as (there is no fighting among the different "schools", which is a different thing). You will find that they all agree on everything that matters most to us (that women and non-Muslims should be subservient, that "human equality" is an affront to Allah, etc.).

          Invest another half hour if you want to clear your brain of politically correct misinterpretations about Sharia. There is consensus among the proponents of Sharia about their ultimate goal. They differ only in what they can succeed in enforcing "now". Read their own writings on the subject.

          Wonka seems infected with politically correct blinders that prevent him from understanding what "religious fundamentalism" means. If you belong to a fundamentalist organization of any type, you willfully give your support to the precise interpretation of that organization. If you do not believe in the stated tenets of the fundamentalist organization to which you belong, then you are either ignorant (either profoundly ignorant or willfully ignorant), duplicitous, or both. Islam is a fundamentalist religion. I suspect that most American Muslims are of the willfully ignorant variety, based on the fact that we don't have terrorist attacks daily.

          I will carefully read any replies with actual evidence. If this thread continues, I hope that bystanders will pay attention to the excuses for Islam which are sure to follow: Are they based on knowledge or "I bet" guesses (which conflict with what Muslims themselves say) and assumptions that Islam is just like Christianity?

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  18. Israel is not trying to keep food and medicine out of Gaza. It's trying to keep WEAPONS out of Gaza.

    Nor did the ship in question have nothing to do with humanitarian purposes. Oh, it had some humanitarian supplies--water filtration systems, plastic shelters, etc. Also, crayons. And when you think about it, crayons are pretty cute aren't they? Those Jews just want make sure Palestinian kids can't color in their coloring books. Meanies.

    But Israel offered to deliver those, and the so-called "freedom flotilla" turned them down because that would fail to accomplish the goal of breaking the blockade.

    "This mission is not about delivering humanitarian supplies, it's about breaking Israel's siege on 1.5 million Palestinians," said flotilla enthusiast and professor Greta Berlin. (She was on the flotilla)

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100528/wl_afp/mideastconflictgazademoaid_20100528024425

    So Dr. Paul is wrong. Again.

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    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 9

    • Why do you even bother to print such obvious lies? Or is it that you only read zionist propaganda? You can't be that uninformed. I think you post inflammatory remarks to goad a response that your handlers to use to denigrate Ron Paul. Either that or you crave attention.

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    • Were there any weapons on the ship then? The artical you posted didn't say that there were, a fact it would certainly have mentioned. What indeed is wrong with "the goal of breaking the blockade"? Breaking a blockade sounds like a peaceful goal to me; sure the passengers had weapons, but they were personal arments: nothing that could be construed as "providing for military activities"

      I believe that carrying personal weapons for self-defence is a normal thing, if fact it reminds me of a freedom that is supposed to be honored in this country.

      So what wrong with "breaking the blockade". You make it sound like such a malicious goal. Sounds like a push for "FREE EXANGE OF GOODS" to me

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      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8

    • Okay Ben Dover,

      Here is the list of the country that condemned this fascist action why wouldn't you? Huh?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Gaza_flotilla_raid

      (example 1)Mr. Obama seems to be pretty quick without fact and nature of a situation and call other organization "acted stupidly"
      (example 2)but slow pooh when comes to condemning Israel and that is because he is Israeli Puppet. How could a puppet disrespect his master controller? huh

      (Example 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZYsW_PxWAM
      (Example 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcTD3gJSjiM

      Here is Arial Sharon quotations;
      “Don't worry about American pressure, we control America.”
      “Don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.”

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    • Israel was ambushed. it was a setup.

      if you understand history in that area, period, and understand what's happening in the u.s. today with the underground revolutionist movement with william ayers and his wife, along with code pink.......oh yes...

      those people are the very people that formed the group "free gaza."

      those people are the very people that orchastrated the ambush on Israel.

      of course the media....i.e. cnn, msnbc.....are not going to report the whole story because they are behind the underground movement.

      by the way, the palestinian state, jhadists, and the radical core of muslims, but not the average muslim, are at war with israel.

      the underground movement along with the jhadists want the destruction of israel......and.....the u.s.

      all individuals who are not part of the underground movement/jhadists, are considered enemies and must be destroyed.

      the u.s. must, must support israel.......

      you should log on to joel rosenburg's weblog.......he describes things correctly.

      he's a christian jew.....he has a bullet-proof defense for israel.

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  19. we con the world
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg&feature=player_embedded

    dr paul should be ashamed to be spreading false rumors about the state of gaza - there is ample food, and it is no "concentration camp"

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    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 12

    • adn
      My God that video really is funny. But this is not a laughting matter. If Muslims are exaggerating their problems or not it doesn't matter. We don't belong there.
      This is between Israel and Palestine.
      USA children belong in the USA.

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      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5

  20. The supply of weapons and money to Israel needs to be halted immediately. They have made there own mess and need to fix there own problems.

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    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 10

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