Ron Paul: Why Big Government Hates Gold




Date: 06/07/2010

Why Governments Hate Gold

by Ron Paul

This past week several emerging and ongoing crises took attention away from the ongoing sovereign debt problems in Greece. The bailouts are merely kicking the can down the road and making things worse for taxpaying citizens, here and abroad. Greece is unfortunately not unique in its irresponsible spending habits. Greek-style debt explosions are quickly spreading to other nations one by one, and yes, the United States is one of the dominoes on down the line.

Time and again it has been proven that the Keynesian system of big government and fiat paper money are abject failures in the long run. However, the nature of government is to ignore reality when there is an avenue that allows growth in power and control. Thus, most politicians and economists will ignore the long-term damage of Keynesianism in the early stage of a bubble when there is the illusion of prosperity, suggesting that the basic laws of economics had been repealed. In fact, one way to tell if a bubble is about to burst is if economists start talking about how the government and the Central Bank have repealed the business cycle.

The truth is the laws of economics are constant and real, no matter how inconvenient they might be to politicians and bankers. This reality is setting in and the bills are coming due. In the mean time, countries that have no money have bailed out other countries that have no money, except for the phony money created by politicians, bureaucrats, and their partners-in-crime at the central banks. This may be preventing big well-connected banks from having to take on massive losses, but it is all at the expense of the taxpaying citizen.

As governments and central banks continue the cycle of spending and inflating, the purchasing power of their currencies is constantly being degraded. These currencies are what the people are working for and saving. This inflation guts the savings and earnings of the people, who have very limited options for protecting themselves against these ravages. One option is to convert their fiat currency into something out of reach of central banks and government spending, such as gold or silver.

It is fairly typical in the midst of economic crises like these for gold to come under attack from Keynesians economists and their amen corner in the media. The arguments against gold are usually straw men, based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of buying gold. Gold is not a typical investment. It is a defense against the predictable behavior of governments to debase a fiat currency under its absolute control. The people who run the printing presses have trouble shutting them off. In order to limit one’s exposure to this reckless behavior, it is wise to exchange unsound assets for sound ones.

As the foundation of their power, their fiat currency, is rejected or avoided, government power is compromised. Fiat currencies trade the people’s freedom and security for the government’s freedom to squander the wealth of the nation on wasteful pet programs, wars, and corruption. This is why the freedom of the people is so intertwined with a sound monetary unit. This is also why the founders liked gold and silver, and supporters of big government hate them.

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130 Comments:

  1. Cross posting from the "Sound Money" blog. Absolutely everyone needs to see, read and understand this, and then do their part in order to get the information to others to see read and understand as well. This is the single and only thing anyone needs to be worried about now and the solution to all other problems too.

    __________________________________

    AlvieC
    June 16, 2010 at 9:05 pm | Permalink | Reply Report comment Report comment

    I love the replies. I am so glad I’ve got the attention of some. Our job is not complete yet. We need more to understand.

    Talk about sticking our neck out? It is worth it for you!

    I am doing it for my children, their children, you, and everyone you know, even though I do not know them, neither did my forefathers, when they stuck their neck out for those they did not know. I’m trying to carry on that tradition. It seems to be lost now day, because of fear. I am not afraid.

    They can do to me what they want if that satisfies them. But, another will fill my shoes, if I go. This is a Divine plan, not mine.

    I cannot take the credit. I hope you understand.
    There is more than one of me. My teacher, is the best.

    I just look forward to meeting Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, and the many who battled this. Crazy? I don’t think so.

    My friends and I have quite a few years into reseearch to find this.
    It just goes to show, what a man, men, woman, or women will do what pushed against the wall.

    If we can only unite in masses, we can accomplish this.

    I just posted another article called “Suspense Account”
    Homeowner – Investor
    May They Never Meet

    This should get the investors attention.
    If we can get homeowners and investors to realize this, the banks will be hit from both sides. not just one.

    We have pushed this out to the Tea Party, and to the Liberal party, to help those who want to stop this madness. As you may see, I am reserved as to who I am in favor of. It will take one hell of a sales pitch for me. Pardon the language.

    We want those who will take out country back, and get the greed out.
    Enough is enough.

    God Bless America

    “Vote Greed Out” “Vote Trust In”
    Vote in November

    .................................................................................

    David
    June 17, 2010 at 12:27 pm | Permalink | Reply Report comment Report comment

    This is a beautiful statement, and what you have done here is describe my own thoughts perfectly along with those of many others here as well, and also those of this countries founding fathers.

    What you have described here is love, “Greater love has no man than that he would be willing to lay down his life for a friend”. This is the single and only country in this entire world which has been established by love, and for the purpose of bringing the natural freedoms and prosperity to its population which all people should be entitled to, as all others have always existed simply to serve someone’s lust for power. Each and every one of this nations founding fathers had this love and was prepared to make this sacrifice in order to accomplish this as well, and its a good thing to see that there are still some of us who would be willing to do the same in order to preserve and build on what they established.

    These men warned us time and again about what would happen if we were to tolerate a banking system in this country, and Jefferson probably stated it best in that “the children would wake up homeless in the land that their fathers conquered”. This was not their belief, or an economic theory, but a simple statement of fact which they knew to be true, and its about time that everyone today comes to understand this as well. No country or society can survive for any length of time while tolerating any form of private interest on money, and will not survive for anything but a very short time while allowing private control and issue of its currency. This is an extremely insidious thing which should have been obvious to everyone from the very beginning, but evidently is only becoming apparent to a few as we speak. The simple fact is that for as long as banks have the power to issue money and credit and collect interest on what they issue, the single and only thing which can happen, is that they will incrementally gain control of more and more of the nations resources and property as time goes on and the single and only possible result is that eventually they will have accumulated all of it leaving the population with absolutely nothing, which is exactly the point which we are reaching now, and if something isn’t done about this very soon, this end result will be a permanent condition as well as they will have established the power to keep it so.

    If the motivation was simple greed, it would not be such an evil thing, as someone who simply wants a lot for themselves has no reason to deny that prosperity to another person as well, and for anyone attempting to establish prosperity through any form of useful production or service, the prosperity of others is absolutely essential to this, as people need to have the means to purchase that useful production or service in order for it to accomplish anything for anyone, and hence everyone wins. For banks though, they provide absolutely nothing of any tangible value for anyone, and the single and only means they have to survive and prosper, is to maintain and increase their power over the population so that they can continue to force the population to keep feeding them through interest and taxes, and the single and only way to establish power is to make the population poor and dependent on those who establish the power, to the extent where both the power and poverty will be absolute. Hence, the only possible result of the current form of capitalism is socialism, which is it final evolution, both of which come from the same place and have been invented by the same people, as a means to first establishing and then finally securing the power they crave.

    The single and only legitimate means for any person to establish prosperity for themselves, is to provide some form of useful production or service which can actually benefit another person, in which case that other person will be willing to work and pay for that production or service in order to receive the benefits that it can provide for them. If an economy exists and is administered for the single and only purpose if facilitating and maximizing such useful production and services, the only possible end result can be ever increasing prosperity for the entire population and the more prosperity which is established for the people who are doing this, the greater the number of people who will have the opportunity to do the same by contributing their own useful production and services to the benefit of the rest. The only possible result of this is that the overall prosperity of the general population must keep increasing geometrically, and that this society will survive and become ever more free and prosperous for all time to come, simply and only through the population having the means to facilitate the use of their natural abilities to make it so for each other, and as such, everyone wins.

    The only other means for a person to establish prosperity for themselves is through the establishment of power by which they can force someone else to work and contribute to their prosperity while providing nothing of any tangible benefit to them in return. Absolutely every form of business that exists in this country which derives its profits from manipulating money without actually producing or doing something of tangible benefit that other people can actually use, falls into this category, and, as opposed to useful production and services which actually benefit the person buying them, absolutely every nickel of prosperity that they gain for themselves, comes at the expense of someone else, and the more they make, the less that everyone else will have. As long as this power is tolerated, the single and only possible result can be the loss of all freedom and property by the population to the extent where they exist simply and only as livestock, who’s sole purpose in existing is to serve those who have established the power to make them do so, as short of contributing something useful to the benefit of others, this is the single and only means that any such individuals can survive and prosper. As such their very existence is an incredibly evil thing and comes at the expense of absolutely everyone except themselves.

    We’re dealing with two very simple and basic concepts here, there are only two in existence and everything that happens in this world is based on and motivated by these two things alone. These are freedom and power, which are essentially equivalent to good and evil. These are the two basic opposing forces in this universe, they simply cannot exist in the same space, and where one does exist, it will always be at the expense of the other. Accordingly, there are only two ways for anyone to establish prosperity for themselves. The first is for a person to use their natural abilities in order to contribute to the benefit of others, and the second is to establish power and control over currencies, economies and governments in order to force them into service through interest and taxes while making absolutely no such contribution to their benefit. Again, were back down to these two very simple, very basic concepts, freedom and power.

    We have tolerated power in our economy and political system for far too long, and every ounce of it which has been established has come at the expense of the freedom and prosperity which this nations founding fathers wished to establish for us through their love for their fellow man and all generations to come. We have only two choices here, we can either do nothing and allow the power to continue to the point where it consumes every ounce of freedom which has ever existed, in the single and only place in the world where it has ever existed, or we can act as a population, and destroy the power, absolutely and completely, allowing only freedom to remain in its place.

    Hopefully, between all of us who understand this, we can manage to beat it into the heads of all of those who don’t, what an incredibly simple thing this is and how extremely urgent it is for them to act in order to preserve and secure the freedom that they treasure but that most don’t understand, but without which their lives would become a completely worthless and intolerable thing.

    The only thing required for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing. You are doing something, i am doing something, and many others are doing something as well. I only hope and pray that there will be enough doing something in order to avoid the single and only possible fate which has befallen every other society in this world which has tolerated a banking system, for as long as this is tolerated, there can be only one result, which is the destruction of all freedom with only power remaining in its place.

    We can only have one or the other and people have to choose. If the power wins, it will be over my dead body and yours as well, and we will have lost nothing as this is infinitely preferable to living without hope of ever accomplishing anything that could possibly make our lives a worthwhile thing, and if the freedom prevails, it will be you and i and those like us who are responsible for that, and for giving people the opportunity to use their natural abilities to make their lives a far more worthwhile and productive thing than they could have ever possibly imagined, as it is only banks and their power which have prevented them from being so thus far.

    ……………………………………………

    Again, everyone, copy paste and forward these posts to absolutely everyone you can. On here we are simply preaching to the choir, and we desperately need to get things like this out there and circulating in order to motivate the general population to start thinking and understanding to the extent where they will be willing and capable of acting as well. This is the single and most important thing that we need to be doing right now, and i know that many of you are doing this already. Thanks for your help.

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  2. LOL, libertarianism will lead to paganism. Silly. So what if it does? It's more in line with truth than any of the "Big 3." And what happened to Freedom of Religion?

    Some people's arguments against liberty kill me.

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    • fred the protectionist

      "LOL, libertarianism will lead to paganism. Silly. So what if it does?"

      We'll need to build more prisons from all the extra murders, rapes, thefts and other crimes because pagans and other barbarian religions have no ethical core. And that costs big government, and I thought you Libertarians hated big government.

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      • Thomas,
        Fred is, was and always will be against Liberty and Freedom.
        Fred is simply unable to put down his English translation of "Mien Kempf"

        Alas, poor Fred is stuck in 1930s paranoid "Protectionists" mode, a classic Isolationists who fears free trade and believes that Big Government is the solution, not the PROBLEM.

        I'd recommend "Free to Choose" by Milton Freedman (1980) a simple but powerful argument for Free Markets that even Fred might understand. I think Fred needs an "intervention"... maybe we can all help his paranoid confusion?

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        • fred the protectionist

          Libertarian translation of "Liberty and Freedom": Murder, rape, theft, anarchy, slavery, etc...

          .
          .
          .

          "Alas, poor Fred is stuck in 1930s paranoid “Protectionists” mode"

          By the 1930's the Republican Party had already half-turned towards the dark side of Free-Trade and slave labor, basically flipping the paleo-Republican Party with the paleo-Democratic Party. The original Republican Party was fully Patriotic mode up till the 1920's, before the ideological flip.

          .
          .
          .

          "I’d recommend “Free to Choose” by Milton Freedman"

          Isn't he a Jew?

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        • “Mien Kempf” and "Milton Freedman"?

          Not to be a grammar nazi, but you would think someone that reads, could also write?

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  3. Fred,

    So your argument is not against gold, rather YOU HATE that "a bunch of rich who own 90% of the wealth" who have EARNED and SAVED their wealth, IN SPITE of Big Government's confiscatory tax rates, might seek "PROTECTION" of their wealth by moving to hard assets, GOLD, instead of holding HIGHLY VOLATILE INFLATED CURRENCIES manipulated by CORRUPT BIG GOVERNMENTS.

    So you honestly believe that our corrupt BIG GOVERNMENT is going to "PROTECT" the little guys who live pay check to pay check?

    Seriously... you did just fall of the cabbage truck!

    So YOU BELIEVE the double whammy of the FED (1913) and FDR's confiscation of the CITIZEN'S GOLD (1933), is a compassionate Government? The very same Government that has stripped our grandparents wealth (gold) and handed US worthless paper (FRNs) inflating them since 1932 from $20/oz (GOLD backed) to present $1,240/oz. (AIR backed) FRNs. Simple math Fred… 1240/20 = 6200% cumulative compounded inflation on inflation over the last 78 years.
    Tell me again how our Government IS LOOKING OUT FOR US?

    No amount of APR Interest paid by our Government on T-Bills could ever COMPENSATE our SENIOR CITIZEN SAVERS for the losses our Government has INFLATED AWAY over their lifetimes. Our parents have LOST massive purchasing power of their life’s savings that they desperately need for their final years!
    Add to that injury the INSULT of FDR's Social Security scheme; now exposed as the greatest PONZI scheme ever perpetrated en-mass on We The People, with a cumulative Unfunded Liabilities of $109 TRILLION >> http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    Hey Fred…. “Protect” us from those Rotten Apples!!

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    • fred the protectionist

      Oh so you'd trash the whole economy and put the country into chaos for the hell of it. OK got it.

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      • NOT AT ALL Fred,

        Just common sense tells a body that CHEATING our CITIZENS of their wealth is GRAND THEFT....

        We should not EMPOWER that sort of GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION.

        "Those who are willing to sacrifice their freedoms for security, deserve neither!" Ben Franklin

        GET INVOLVED,
        SACRIFICE FOR THE CAUSE OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM!

        Like Dr Paul has!

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        • fred the protectionist

          "Just common sense tells a body that CHEATING our CITIZENS of their wealth is GRAND THEFT…."

          Yeah like Free Trade and Open Borders CHEATING our CITIZENS of wealth is GRAND THEFT excetera excetera.

          "SACRIFICE FOR THE CAUSE OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM!"

          Watch out, you may break a manicured nail while you are out astro-turfing at one of your mis-named tea party.

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    • Citizen Says: "So you honestly believe that our corrupt BIG GOVERNMENT is going to “PROTECT” the little guys who live pay check to pay check? "

      Are you honestly saying that a shiny metal is the cure for this ill? So you are of the 'guns, gold, and god' belief, eh?

      So you didn't quite say how being on a gold standard would insure that noone, nonetheless 'the little guy' wouldn't have to live paycheck to paycheck. Are you meaning to imply that, under a gold standard, noone would live paycheck to paycheck? What a bunch of rhetoric. Read a history book, any book, and you will see how incorrect of an inference that is.

      "No amount of APR Interest paid by our Government on T-Bills could ever COMPENSATE our SENIOR CITIZEN SAVERS for the losses our Government has INFLATED AWAY"

      So all senior citizens are now broke, hungry, and living on the street because of inflation? Is that the 'reality' of it? Come on out of the basement and have a look around, do some volunteering. There are more senior citizens that are alone than are starving. Your premise is a Ronbot talking point that is unsupported by the reality that people are living to be older, and happier, each year.

      Check out mortality rates 200 years ago and tell me again how awful it is to be a senior citizen today.

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  4. fred the protectionist

    You know what would happen if the US truly went on a gold standard? A bunch of rich people who own 90% of the wealth would hoard 90% of the gold, then sit on it till we went off the gold standard so they could sell it again at a higher price. On top of that, foreign national, foreign banks, would drain off the rest of the gold. In less then 6 months we'd be back on paper money after a period of social anarchy, starvation, civil war or WW3, etc...

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  5. Its simple but its not easy.
    Our government has fallen into the same Profligate Currency abuses as most have.

    History is littered with failed states that embarked on this common debasement of the Peoples Wealth through fraud and dilution of their currency.

    Sound Money is just a concept, of Integrity/Honestly. We know that power corrupts and absolute power i.e The FED, corrupts absolutely. And the corruption is the cancer of Government generated Counterfeit Money "Pulp Fiction" in the form of FRNs.

    The single biggest theft is in the form of Fractional Reserve banking, where the banks can inflate $1 into $99 at the touch of a keyboard. Instant inflation and no Audit accountability. That's why Banks fail and People get screwed!

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  6. Why the hell is everyone worrying about Gold and paper money ? This isn't our problem and it never has been, no society or economy can exist where the majority of its productive effort is being bled off by parasites who contribute absolutely nothing to it, and whether Gold, paper money, or electronic credit, as long as we tolerate any form of banking system, eventually they will have it all along with all the property too, they already own our government lock stock and barrel.

    Kill the bankers, and create an economy for the benefit of those contributing toward useful production and not banks, and and we have no more problems. Gold, paper, credit what does it matter ?.

    Never in my life have i seen anything more stupid or foolish than people arguing over a form of currency while completely ignoring the root cause of each and every one of the economic problems we have ever experienced and each and every threat to every one of our freedoms as well.

    STUPID, STUPID, STUPID PEOPLE.

    FORGET THE F'ING GOLD AND KILL THE F'ING BANKERS FIRST.

    Once we restore an American economy and government for the benefit of the American people and not the F'ing vermin from the banking families, then we can worry about what form of currency we want to use. Gold is what they used to gain control of the worlds economies in the first place, how ignorant of history can all of you be ? You argue stupid economic theories, all of which have been invented by banks as a means to continue to steal from the population and turn them into cattle who exist only to serve the banks, while completely ignoring the single and only thing which has ever generated prosperity for any population in the past. Franklin had it figured out, and so did Hitler who imitated him, and it was done without banks and without gold each time.

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    • David,
      I think you must have stumbled into the wrong blog site....
      This is a Libertarian , Free Market, and Personal Liberty site...

      Rosie O'Donald's site is at http://www.rosie.com/blog/
      You and she may have MUCH MORE in common.

      My humble apologies for We the "Stupid" People, but we honestly LOVE our FREEDOM of speech and respect each others opinions without hostilities HERE!

      As far as Banking, Gold, Big Government and Sound Money
      Its about INTEGRITY of the SYSTEM!
      Absent Integrity, America is Lost.

      Dr Ron Paul IS that INTEGRITY and HONESTY that we all thirst for. He is the Voice Crying out in the Wilderness, Heed his Words and Learn!

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      Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

      • Than you Citizen. I didn't know if I should respond to that or not. Truly, I'm not in his mind so I don't know where he's coming from but that sounds like me at 16 or 17. At 34 I have quite a different outlook. You're response couldn't have been worded better. But to have someone mention killing so willfully on this site was bugging me.

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      • Well, i suppose in most senses of the word i would consider myself a libertarian as well, and if Ron Paul is ever given a chance to run for president he will have my vote as well, as thus far he is by far the best choice which has ever presented itself. I do however strongly disagree with some of the economic policies being presented as libertarian. Although i do agree with the repeal of the legal tender act and that people should be allowed to us whatever means of exchange they choose, if we are to have any form of free economy or free enterprise system in this country, then it will entail some form of public currency which is produced simply and only for the benefit of the population and for the sole purpose of maximizing production and hence the populations prosperity. We need to think outside the box with this one and imagine what our production capacity could be given adequate means to pay for all of it, along with the economic growth this would generate in the future. This should be the objective and not going back to systems which have done nothing but establish power for the few at the expense of the rest as they have always done in the past.

        The reason we need the public currency, is to prevent any other form of currency from buying power as it has been doing progressively for the banking system, first with their accumulation of the gold resources, and finally with their creation of fiat money so they could grab even more of our resources than was possible with that, until its reached the point where most people in most American cities are working 3 1/2 weeks out of the month to pay interest to them and where that effort is not going back onto the population to generate more production, more prosperity and more free enterprise. How can we have any form of free economy or any form of free enterprise system when private interests who's only interest is establishing more power at the expense of our individual freedoms and prosperity control its primary means of exchange ?. I simply can't buy the reasoning on that, and any 6 year old could figure out that the reason we have our current economic crisis in the first place is that the vast majority of our productive effort is being bled off by these parasites who contribute nothing to it, i don't understand why this isn't apparent to so many adults.

        We do need some form of government, simply and only to administer the things which are common to the public interests, and which are used by the entire population and first and foremost among these is our means of trade. With proper administration this could be used to abolish all taxes as well, which in reality are simply a form of involuntary servitude and an affront to the principles of freedom that we all believe in as well. Without this how can any form of freedom or economic prosperity be maintained, and of what purpose is any form of government ?. We may as well simply revert to a state of complete and total anarchy across the board just as has been done economically.

        I thirst for honesty and integrity too, in a country and economy which has become defined by cheats and scam artists. If we are to have this, it will have to be without banking as this is simply nothing more than a criminal practice where money is taken for nothing while progressively robbing that economy and population of its ability to generate useful production for its own benefit. Honesty and integrity is making a profit by creating or contributing something of tangible value for someone else's benefit which is the single and only legitimate means of earning same. Making money by manipulating money is anything but an honest and legitimate practice and for as long as this is tolerated there will be no honesty or integrity in the American economy.

        Money has one purpose, to facilitate trade between a diverse and widespread population in order to allow them all to naturally contribute their abilities toward each others benefit, and it should have no purpose or value beyond this, and it should certainly not be possible to use it as a means to power as it has been thus far. It should not even provide security as this is not its purpose, and if a person wants that, they they can use the money they legitimately earn to buy gold or silver, or better still other tangible and disposable assets which can actually generate some form of production for someone else's benefit as well. Gold is a fantastic electrical conductor, and a very dense material, although too soft to be used for too many things useful other than a conductor, and as such i'm guessing that its real value would be around $ 20.00 / lb.. If people ever decide they no longer want to attribute an artificial value to it then it will be worth exactly that, so whats the difference between it and any other artificial means of exchange ? Again the single and only thing which has ever generated any form of great prosperity for any population in the past has been a public currency with no intrinsic value where the amount put into circulation was matched to the combined production capacity of the population thereby generating maximum production and prosperity for that population, and its the things you have that define prosperity, you can't eat the money. Those who do know American history also know that this is the only form of American currency which has ever existed, was put into circulation by Ben Franklin and the colonies prior to the revolution and is the single and only thing which has ever generated any inordinate amount of prosperity for the American population until it was outlawed by the British banks. We've discussed the matter to death on the sound money blog already so there's no point in rehashing all of it here, but people do need to think and examine history, and understand the purpose of any form of currency rather than just believing whatever part propaganda is being put in front of them to believe in, and although the libertarians have most things right they have this dead wrong.

        Anyway all of this is redundant, for as long as America's banking system remains in place not one person here will ever even get a chance to vote for Ron Paul, or ever determine what form of exchange would generate the most prosperous economy or the best form of free enterprise, and within a very short time the children will quite literally wake up homeless in the land that their fathers conquered, as per Jefferson and other founding fathers predictions. I've already seen this happen where i came from and i'm guessing that we have less than two years, after which we will be subjects of America's banks, and having been deprived of whatever freedom of prosperity that we have ever had and we ourselves will exist simply and only for the purpose of serving the socialist state they are in the process of establishing. If you don't want this, then id suggest doing all that you can in order to help organize some form of mass action in order to "Kill" America's banking system, which at this point could be done as simply as everyone simply stopping to pay all interest and taxes in order to force them out of business, and force the production of a public means of exchange in order for the government to simply survive. Short of making this happen we will have to do it literally if America is to continue to exist in its past and present form. As of today they have not yet established the power to prevent us from doing this, but if we don't they will. Like i said we have about 2 years, probably less, and this is the single and only thing any of us should be worried about now.

        People do need to start thinking instead of just believing party propaganda, and oddly enough, and based on his political history, i think that Ron Paul himself may be doing this as well. If i were him, i would be promoting the crap out of a gold system in order to avoid getting killed until such a point as he was in a position to actually do something about things and then bring about something that would actually work for our benefit. With his political following if he were to breathe one word about a public currency, the banks would have him assassinated within 24 hours just as they have every US President who has given thought to this idea, and he knows this full well. They can't assassinate all of us though, so it is up to us to deal with them so that we will actually have a chance to elect someone like Ron Paul, and short of that it simply is not going to happen. Was anyone watching the straw polls prior to the last Presidential election ? We were given two choices to vote for by the banks, both of which were coming in with 15% or so of the popular support, when Ron Paul had over 40 %. Is there also someone here foolish enough to think that we actually have a democracy in America ? I guess that person would fall into the same category as one who thinks we can have an free and honest economy while letting it be controlled by banks :)

        My objective is simple, to see the single and only free and good place that is still left in the world survive, and getting rid of the parasites who will destroy it is what is essential to making it so, otherwise it will not.

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        • fred the protectionist

          "I thirst for honesty and integrity too, in a country and economy which has become defined by cheats and scam artists. "

          Uh oh, you insulted the entire Libertarian community.

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        • David that was a much more sane argument and my respect for you went up dramatically. And your right. The gold system isn't a panacea. It's not a cure all. It's great in the fact that it can't be inflated so they get even more of our wealth like when they inflate a fiat currency. You've said as much. But if we don't stop subsidizing corporations or stop the redistribution of wealth through excessive taxes we're still screwed. They'll keep getting everything. It's just inflation is the last way they can steal our money since productivity has been squeezed dry. The gold standard is just the first step.

          Hope we both live to see integrity back in goverment. It can be depressing when looking at the current state of the world but I believe a sea change is in the making. Hope you'll take part.

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        • Thanks Jim;

          And yes, the argument has been presented over and over again on the sound money and other blogs here and the general consensus after the argument is always the same, a sound public currency and credit system operated simply and only for the benefit of the population in order to create the maximum possible amount of production through a truly free and private enterprise system for the benefit of everyone.

          I guess im pissed that so many are simply not thinking outside the little box which has been defined for them and when they see one predefined option destroying us they simply revert to another predefined option which will simply accomplish more of the same. We seem to be making progress with this in one place and then the same things keeps showing up in others, and i do apologize for some of the harshness of the initial comment, and it was a reaction to this.

          When i see the tremendous production potential and technology which exists within our population and now its progress is being held back simply by the artificial manipulation of our currency and economy by private interests so that they can seize ever more power and resources from the population , and know what could be accomplished were the system simply established and administered for this single and only purpose The bottom line is that we have it well within our ability to completely eliminate all hardship and poverty while at the same time providing such great and abundant prosperity to anyone willing to contribute to the benefit of country and population its sickening in order to see the complete and total inability of so many to realize this potential and what an extremely simple thing it would be to establish, as they would rather just trust and believe in something they are told than think and figure this out for themselves.

          With Franklin's system many states (or whatever they were called at the time) managed the currency very effectively and maintained a stable and consistent value for it, which would be preferable, and financed most of their operations simply by charging low interest rates on the loan of that currency in lieu of taxes, with the interest being immediately injected back into the economy through public services (and this is the only way any form of interest can work or be tolerated). A few went on spending binges and inflated the currency, but even so, maximum production and prosperity had still been generated and as long as people aren't foolish enough to base their security on an artificial means of exchange, there is little damage done, just drop a zero and keep going in such a case. The simple fact is that the money itself isn't real, nor is it natural, it exists by law, and should exist simply and only to facilitate natural trade and production between a large and diverse population allowing them to benefit from a far greater and far more diverse range of production and services than would be possible with local barter. As long as this is accomplished to the maximum, the money itself is of absolutely no consequence. Unfortunately about the only people who have figured this out so far are banks, and to them it is a means to power and enslavement of the worlds populations, as they consider this their right, and its about time people started figuring this out and used it to accomplish the opposite for themselves.

          From what i'm getting on this end, they are finally starting to, and if we can just some wa,y some how manage to organize the mass action we need in order to accomplish this it will be accomplished, but it will have to be all of us that do it, as the power that has been established over our political process simply will not allow it to happen.

          The bottom line is that a working economy is an extremely simple thing, and no more complicated than a bunch if little kids playing store. They get scraps of paper and scribble numbers and dollar signs on them, and they can keep buying and selling from each other forever, but if they make one kid the bank and put him in charge of the money, by the end of the day he will have all the money and all the toys as well.

          I own and operate an engineering / manufacturing business here, and i think that i speak for absolutely everyone in American who is involved in providing any form of useful production or service, when i say that our dream is for the entire population to have a very rich, abundant and consistent supply of wealth in order to purchase the useful and wonderful things which we are able to make and do for them, to the full extent of our ability to do so. There is absolutely no reason why they could not have this tomorrow, and the single and only reason that they have not has this all along is their belief in philosophies which have been created by those seeking power who would deny them the same. How do you maintain power and control over a population ? Keep them poor and dependent on those with the power. Our current form of capitalism is a means to make them poor, the final evolution of which is socialism in order to permanently secure the power. It all comes from the same place and the same people and unless this problem is eliminated at the source nothing is accomplished. They consider it their right to rule over all humanity, and as with any form of parasite establishing this power is essential to their continued existence, and i consider it both my right and my obligation, for the benefit of the rights of others, to destroy them by whatever means may be necessary in order to prevent them from doing so. Everyone else here should consider this their right as well, and be putting 100 % of their efforts into accomplishing this before it is too late to do so.

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        • I myself personally have only become intersted in such topics because of Ron Paul. You seem much more informed then myself. That doesn't bother me because I'm a reasonably intelligent person and I'm willing to learn. I've learnt alot from him and I've just learned more from you. I'm guessing though I could be wrong, that your an anarchist (in the good denotative sense of the word... no connotations implied.) Libertaranism is a step in that direction. And because you've felt regret about your angrier comments I feel bad pointing it out now. I get pretty ticked too. Best wishes and keep me informed. You seem to know alot.

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        • Hi Jim;

          Lol well im definitely not an anarchist, otherwise i would agree with the typical libertarian view of just leaving the economy alone to fend for itself, and at the mercy of whatever private interests can manage to manipulate it for their own power.

          I believe in freedom and object to power as one can only exist at the expense of the other, as as most libertarians, i believe in minimal government, the absolute freedom of each individual to live his or her life as they choose, provided they respect the freedoms of others to do the same, and i believe that each and every person has the right to prosper from their abilities to contribute toward the benefit of others. What i don't understand is the difference between some of the libertarian views and absolute anarchy, and this is what i expect would be the economic result of the typical libertarian view of currency.

          The bottom line here, is that the single and only purpose of government, is to protect the freedoms and promote the prosperity of the people on who's behalf it governs. As such the primary purpose of government is to administer for the benefit of the population, such public services and commodities as are common and needed by everyone in the population, the first and foremost of these being our primary means of trade and exchange. If government does not administer these things, just as they have not done with our currency and credit system, they they will fall into private hands, just as they have, and they will be used by these private interests to establish power just as they have, and establish government which will act in their interests and against the interests of the population, just as they are. Franklin, was not a libertarian, neither were any of the founding fathers of this country, and instead they were simply willing to think and do what they thought would work best for the freedom and interests of the population, and this is what everyone needs to do today instead of just buying into and believing some party propaganda.

          By this point the control they have established over our political process is absolute, and to the extent that there is absolutely nothing we can do through the political process to regain control of our government, political system, or economy from them. At this point we can still regain control if we can organize mass action by the entire population to destroy these private interests (banks) and do so, and if we don't do that very shortly we will no longer have that chance. Short of this, whatever freedom, or hope of prosperity we have ever possessed will no longer exist and each and every American will exist simply and only as a slave and a subject of the "socialist", "fascist", or whatever else people want to call it, state they have established to rule on their behalf. As an immigrant to this country, i've seen this happen before, and i don't want to see it happen here. My former country was never worth very much to me, and as far as i'm concerned, its population got exactly what they deserved for their ignorance and stupidity, however i have always loved America and the principles of individual freedom and justice on which it is established, and i hope and pray that its population will not be so stupid and ignorant to allow the same to happen here, as if they are, they will have allowed the destruction of the single and only good place that has ever existed in the world.

          Anyway, if you want to get some information on what i and others think in terms of what should be done economically, log onto the sound money blog on this site and scroll back through the posts and do some reading when you have time. For now, some of us on there are simply trying to organize an effort in order to get information into the hands of the general population, and if we can get enough people's attention through this, then hopefully we or someone else can propose a plan of action which enough will participate in, in order to make it work. Right now, it could be as simple as to just stop paying, but first they need to know why they need to stop. We'd very much appreciate your help and your contributions, and that goes for anyone else on here too.

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  7. Big Government Socialists will argue every absurdity, including that your money is theirs.
    Especially those Nationalist Socialist patsies (aka Nazis), they just hate people who love FREEDOM and reject their FIAT PAPER currency.

    Sound Money is the antithesis to Big Government!

    Sound Money takes away the power of Central Planning Nazis who believe ALL money is their money and therefore their sovereign right to confiscate via taxes or counterfeit via printing press.

    Nazis hate Libertarians who demand their Sovereign Right to Sound Money.

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    • fred the protectionist

      Globalist Libertarian/Neocon/Socialists will argue every absurdity, including that money is God.

      Sound Money is a pre-requisite to Big Government!

      Sound Money gives power of Central Planning Globalists who believe ALL money is their money and therefore their sovereign right to confiscate via taxes or counterfeit via printing press.

      Globalist Libertarian/Neocon/Socialists hate fair traders or protectionists who demand their Sovereign Rights.

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      • Fred,
        Your continued diatribe rants and irrational convoluted missed points has solidified my opinion, your both a Parrot and a Nazi.

        Again... Read a Book...
        I'd suggest "Road to Serfdom" by FA Hayek

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        • fred the protectionist

          I've had my fill of Libertarian propaganda. I told you, I was and even voted Libertarian (once) in the 1990's. I know your simplistic methods of thought, "Gubment is evil y'all." I get it, ok I get it, yes, I get it. How many books do you need to read to get that message? One half of one.

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        • if Fred's "had his [sic] fill of Libertarian propaganda" one wonders why he still peruses this website since it's so filled with 'propaganda' (and by extension.. LACK of reasoned arguments according to Fred).

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        • fred the protectionist

          Because Libertarianism will lead to war, destruction, death, slavery, paganism, and the apocolypse.

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        • and the status quo has brought us what exactly Fred?

          2 wars that have both gone on longer than WWII and caused more US deaths than 9/11 and still no end in sight.

          A financial crises that resulted in a LOT of people not having enough for retirement and having to work until they die (slaves to debt).

          So how again is the status quo better?

          oh wait. you're going to blame the status quo on 'free trade' and 'Libertarians who secretly control congress'.

          Please don't respond on your computer made in China/Taiwan. Only respond using a non-free-trade, tariffed, piece of hardware and software.

          I forget you want to keep having the US being a large industrial manufacturing base only, using old technology to keep a lot of people employed (if we got rid of automated robots in car factories we could wipe out unemployment!).

          There's no need for Facebook, Google, Twitter, YouTube, the Internet or a myriad of other technologies that don't require industrialised production or a large workforce. We should go back to the 19th century when it required hundreds of people to manufacture cotton cloth. They should have put tariffs on the industrial revolution, since all those industrialised jobs went away when the machine was invented. Heck, we should outlaw tractors and combine harvesters, that way there will be millions of farming jobs, that have to be done right here in the USA. They can never be exported to China or India!

          Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with industrialised jobs. But we should focus on getting better at doing higher value industrialised jobs. e.g. manufacturing advanced ships, aircraft, oil rigs, offshore wind power and tide power farms, advanced nuclear reactors, better, faster, cheaper tractors, trailers, trains, etc. NOT try and compete with China to make iPads, iPods, and assemble computers. Move UP the value chain, not down it.

          And when China/India start building better ships, trains, planes etc. the US should have advanced sufficiently to be building hypersonic planes, sub-orbital travel, advanced renewable energy sources... technological progress. Rinse. Repeat.

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        • fred the protectionist

          "and the status quo has brought us what exactly Fred?

          2 wars that have both gone on longer than WWII and caused more US deaths than 9/11 and still no end in sight.

          A financial crises that resulted in a LOT of people not having enough for retirement and having to work until they die (slaves to debt)."

          You mean the 2 wars started by Libertarian-Republican Bush? And continued by free-trade/open-borders Democrat that negro what's his name?

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        • Libertarian777 is correct.

          If you look at a typical US product life cycle, the newly innovated products are almost always manufactured inside of the US. As the product becomes less innovative and other countries become technologically capable of producing it, production is typically outsourced to places with less costly factors of production.

          Fred's solution in a nutshell: Charge Americans extra.
          I.E.
          Fred wants us to produce everything less efficiently by making a one-man job into a 10-man job (that's what protectionist tariffs accomplish). He doesn't understand that if 10 men do a 1-man job, they must charge consumers 10 times as much, or split the wage of one man. Not too bright.

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        • fred the protectionist

          A) Your Free Trade has jacked up the price of imports, imports are more expensive and of lesser quality.

          "Fred wants us to produce everything less efficiently by making a one-man job into a 10-man job"

          B) You got that backwards Kemosabe, cheap foreign labor takes more people to do the same job that was outsourced. In effect you are de-mechanization/de-industrializing the world with your open-borders/free-trade.

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        • A) Proof please. Or is this another myth of Fred-onomics?

          B) Actually you are the one who has twisted it backwards. I'm clearly talking about the effects of protectionism on American jobs, not Chinese jobs. Nice try to distort my point though.

          Protectionist tariffs lessen the number of consumer choices available in the American market, thereby decreasing competition and increasing the price paid by consumers in that market. Econ 101.

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  8. Montana H.B. 639, Indiana S.B. 453, Colorado H.B. 09-1206, Missouri H.B. 0561, Georgia H.B. 430, Maryland H.J.R. 5 .........

    Took just a few minutes to come up with these legislative attempts for sound money. I'm sure there are more. Just because a state does not use sound money does not mean that sound money is unwanted.
    Most passed legislation is unwanted.

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  9. fred the protectionist

    In 1748 a Swedish banker comes up with the idea of loaning out over 100% of the bank's assets.....'one thing led to another' and Ron Paul advocates returning to the Gold Standard.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8637690852317227323#

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    • So Fred you're a protectionist. I'm not really sure what that means. I assume you are in favor of tariffs. But what else does it entail???

      I'm not being facetious in anyway. With America's current econmic problems such as they are what do you suggest america should do from a protectionists' standpoint.

      Also libertaranism starts with the non-agression principle. Does protectionism have any moral principles or is it just pragmatic???

      As a protectionist how do you feel about the patriot act. Does it protect america???

      You seem not to like gold so much. The reason libertarians like it is because it cannot be manufactured out of thin air. As a protectionist why is gold bad???

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      • fred the protectionist

        "Also libertaranism starts with the non-agression principle. "

        Wrong, trade (not just free trade) increases American interests with every import and export. You cannot be a free trader and an isolationist. And don't throw that brainwashing propaganda nonsense at me: 'non-interventionist'.

        You cannot be a free trader globalist and an isolationist simultaneously.

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        • Fred I'm glad you seem to know so much about me. But I didn't ask you on your opinion of me. I asked you to answer some questions. Just want to understand your perspective on them. As a libertarian I would not force you to because that is against my principle of non-agreesion but will ask you politely to respond to my questions.

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  10. Why people who can do math, and are not wailing about the end of the world, hate gold:

    www.inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Gold/Gold_inflation_chart.htm

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    • Because they worship command and control government.

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      • Right, because clearly those are the only two choices - either you think 'gold is essential to monetary policy' or you 'worship command and control government'.

        Keep fitting that Paranoid Style of American Politics, Louie:
        "Perhaps the central situation conducive to the diffusion of the paranoid tendency is a confrontation of opposed interests which are (or are felt to be) totally irreconcilable, and thus by nature not susceptible to the normal political processes of bargain and compromise."

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        • As you continue to defend the failing status quo, it is honorable that you are going down with the ship. Send us a postcard from Atlantis.

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        • What is the use of pieces of paper that claims to build wealth, when we're indeed becoming a debtor nation with this phoney theory that the fed likes to think that "We are stupid"? Forest don't you have anything better to do than to just defend the status quo and your useless rhetoric? You're like a bad movie. & the same goes for your buddy Fred and his girlfriend the FED!

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        • fred the protectionist

          The US is a debtor nation because of free trade (trade deficit). You cost tens of millions of Americans good paying jobs (personal debt), they vote Socialist (national deficit), and abracadabra the US is a debtor nation in every way.

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        • Where is this free trade? I've only seen trade that is sanctioned, regulated, and manipulated by governments. Where is free trade occuring?

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        • fred the protectionist

          Behold! The Libertarian/Neocons who lobbied and propagandized for, NAFTA and other FTA's in the 1990's are now disowning them because they have been a disaster.

          You cannot disown your child, child.

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        • SS says: "Where is this free trade?"

          Isn't that the same thing y'all say when free markets failed too? Freedom is good, then it fails, then it wasn't actually free in the first place - the government did it!

          Isn't that the Libertarian mantra? Free trade and free markets never existed, because if they did, the world would be perfect?

          Chickens for checkups!

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        • Babbling incoherently about things that give you the runs is not the same as answering a question. Try the pink stuff.

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        • Hey Fred & Forest since when do you IDIOTS thinkt that Libertarians are Neo-Cons and Pro- Free Trade without limits? Could anyone of you loonies please educate us on your rediculous rhetoric/Fear Monguring?

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        • fred the protectionist

          Tariffs are at the lowest level in the history of the United States. You are arguing over less then a percentage point from zero. NAFTA and other FTA's are free trade, you Libertarians cannot disown this disaster you forced upon America.

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        • Fred said: "The US is a debtor nation because of free trade (trade deficit). "

          No Fred - the US is a debtor nation because of SPENDING deficits - not trade deficits.

          When the government SPENDS more than they take in on all the BS pols like to piss our money away on - they have to BORROW the difference from someone else. That's why it's called DEFICIT SPENDING.

          Routinely spending too much builds the ever growing national debt - which is why the US is a debtor nation. Unfortunately a lot of that debt has actually been funded in a couple of incidious ways:

          1. Taking good money that was supposed to be set aside to fund programs like Social Security and replacing the money with IOUs (Treasuries) - thereby placing the burden of meeting the future obligations (as well as repaying the debt) on a future generation when the pols who stole the money are no longer around.

          2. "Quantitative easing" which is basically printing money you can't cover to buy Treasuries that others aren't buying.

          Both of these actions would be criminal if a corporation or individual tried shell games remotely like this.

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        • fred the protectionist

          "No Fred – the US is a debtor nation because of SPENDING deficits – not trade deficits."

          There are 3 types of deficits:

          A) Government debt (national, state, local debt)

          B) Personal debt (credit cards and such)

          C) Trade deficit

          The massive (and I mean massive) trade deficit causes massive amounts of people to lose their jobs and increase their personal debt. And less taxes are collected so that increases Government debt. Also, when people lose their jobs and hear Bush say, "They are doing jobs Americans won't do," they vote for socialists which also increases government debt. All this debt boils down to the destructiveness of free trade.

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        • You have no idea what you're talking about

          Buying more foreign goods than we produce does NOT increase the national debt - government thieves SPENDING more than they take in increases the national debt - that's it.

          Runaway personal debt is a symptom of the government pushing easy money programs that allow those least able to afford the debt to load up on it buying often frivolous things that they then spend years trying to pay back (unless they eventually declare bankruptcy and leave their mess to someone else).

          But neither trade deficits nor personal debt account for the ever increasing NATIONAL debt - that's solely at the feet of the criminals too many people allow themselves to be duped into voting for.

          The biggest problem is that the pols have rigged the system and have managed to get enough people on government entitlement systems (like in Greece) that the same crooks can keep getting elected to rape and plunder the country.

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        • Classic.
          I love it when Fred makes up his own version of economics.
          lol

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        • Actually, freddie was downloaded with that version from a statist website that cannot be mentioned in polite libertarian company.

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        • fred the protectionist

          "Buying more foreign goods than we produce does NOT increase the national debt – government thieves SPENDING more than they take in increases the national debt – that’s it."

          You have a simple mind.

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        • fred the protectionist

          "Classic.
          I love it when Fred makes up his own version of economics.
          lol"

          I love it how Libertarians are willfully ignorant of reality.
          lawl

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        • Fred, you made that up.

          Show us ONE academic source that supports what you posted. You don't provide any economic basis for your claims. That makes them assumptions. Unsupported assumptions.

          Just because you found it on google it doesn't make it "reality".

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        • fred the protectionist

          "Show us ONE academic source that supports what you posted."

          See, Libertarians are more Liberal then the Liberals. That's what Liberals say, "We have a scientific consensus on Global Warming, show us your peer reviewed paperwork."

          Peer Review is socialized science. It Democratizes science when real science is the furthest from Democracy then you can get. Science is Tyranny where only one person is right. When you're right in science you are right, you don't need a consensus or a majority vote to know the earth revolves around the sun. You don't need a consensus or majority vote to know that the Gravitational Constant is 9.98 m/s/s. One person comes up with fact in science.

          Economics is the same way. "Academics" who spend all their time in college, or teachers, without ever having a real job in their life are not what I would call a valid person to have on my side. But who is on my side? The original Republican Party (till the 1920's), the founding fathers who's first act was to raise a tariff, the Constitution before the 16th amendment, all 4 presidents on Mount Rushmore, etc.

          Who's on the free trader's side? The CSA, King Cotton, the 16th amendment, Karl Marx, the WTO, etc.

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        • (sarcasm) Yeaah, why does anybody spend their time reading books, or passing on empirical knowledge? Who needs facts or explanations, right? They just get in your way. (end sarcasm)

          That explains quite a bit about how you arrive at your crazy conclusions.

          Like that gem you told me on the 'dollar vs gold' blog, your little conspiracy theory that libertarians are destroying the world with free trade propaganda. Nevermind economics, you just know it. Just like you know there is a god.

          I take it you're saying that Fred-onomics is like religion; they are both faith-based.

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        • fred the protectionist

          "Yeaah, why does anybody spend their time reading books"

          Books, oh the magical chimerical books that will make the world all better. OK I'll read books. How about Mein Kampf, or how about On The Jewish Question by Karl Marx. There, those are books, since they are books they must be infallible cause they are books.

          All hail the books!

          "Fred-onomics"

          The Constitution, the founding fathers, the original Republican Party must be Fred-onomics. Sure beats Karl Marx-onomics of free trade, open borders and social anarchy.

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        • Yeah, let's throw away all books because Marx has one.

          Extremist-boy.

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        • fred the protectionist

          Logic and Libertarianism don't mix.

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        • Oh! What a surprise! Another unsubstantiated, faith-based generalization from Fred the Preacher.

          Logic and faith-based belief systems don't mix.

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        • fred the protectionist

          The only ones operating on "faith" are you Libertarian/Neocons. I don't need any "faith" to see that your open-borders/free-trade has turned into a disaster, apparently 'you people' still operate on "faith" and "faith" alone.

          "faith" in open-border/free-trade globalization, that's you.

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        • The only things I have faith in are real. That doesn't include invisible men in the sky or versions of economics made up by blog trolls.

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  11. Again, Dr Paul states the simple truth about our currency debacle.
    The only "protection" we need is from our government and Nazis like Fred.

    Fred's ever present pointless and mindless drivel gives an eerie urgency to the message. Our government fears sound money because it diminishes its power to squander the peoples wealth away.

    Acquiring and hoarding Gold or Silver bullion in lieu of FRNs is a short term stop gap measure to preserve our remaining wealth.

    A longer view is to rein in the FED banking system by forcing 100% Reserves on Demand Deposits to end the destructive inflationary Fractional Reserves that benefit only the Bank Robber Barrens who are Licensed to Steal by Government charter.

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    • So prove it. There are 50 states, each one having the power to print their own gold or silver backed currency, should they choose to do so. Yet not a single state has.

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      • "Yet not a single state has."

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States

        Unfortunately, unless your currency is of the calibre of "disney dollars", you run into many problems (including criminal charges from the feds). Just look at the Liberty Dollar.

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    • fred the protectionist

      "hoarding Gold ... "

      Hoarding gold is how a trade deficit turns into an empty Fort Knox. Why do you want to empty America of all it's gold reserves? Are you an agent of a foreign government or something?

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      • Oh, now it's "hoarding gold" that you blame for an "empty fort knox". Last time it was free-trade. Get your story straight.

        Too bad trade deficits are caused by inflating currencies. But don't let the facts of economics stand in your way.

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        • fred the protectionist

          Why do you want to transfer American gold reserves to China? Are you a Chinese agent or something? Are you a 50 center?

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  12. fred the protectionist

    2 (libertarian brand) political cliches back to back. "Big Government" and "Gold", hey let's form a sentence out of that.

    "Gold and the Big Government don't like each other."

    "Big Government and Gold walked into a bar..."

    nah.

    "Why Big Government hates Gold." Yeah that's the ticket.

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    • fred the protectionist

      I can't figure out which is my favorite, number 2,3, or 4. I think 4 is.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDrLX7FXba4&feature=related

      The Confederation of the Rhine and later the German Empire was built on protective Tariffs, like the US of the 19th century. A true Conservative society is a protectionist society. Free Traders are Liberals not Conservative.

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  13. Actually, given the fact that not one single country in the world is on a gold standard any longer... It is more accurate to say that 'small government' hates a gold standard too.

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    • You love to show your ass.
      Where do they practice this 'small government'?

      Damn, boy, you are dumber than a box of rocks.

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    • So, given the fact that there isn't one single government in the world on a gold standard...

      You believe that:
      1) Every government in the world is 'Big Government'
      2) Only 'Big Government' hates Gold

      And this is why NOT A SINGLE GOVERNMENT IS ON A GOLD STANDARD? Geesh. It doesn't have a thing to do with exponential population growth? Really? Trade imbalances? Really? Every government is big government? Really?

      It's more just a libertarian cliche that seeks to simplify real-world problems into a 'big government sounds bad so lets blame it on that'.

      What's life like in that Libertarian rabbit hole? Must be mentally trying - what with you now imagining 'asses' where they are not, and a WHOLE WORLD'S worth of 'Big Government' solely out to discredit you and your precious rocks.

      Precioussss rocksssss......

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      • Your same M.O., never answering the question followed with pretentious irrelevant balderdash.
        Where do they practice this ’small government’?

        Big governments hating gold? Hardly. The FED takes all of it's payments in gold. They love it. Why?

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        • What, pray tell, are all of "these payments that the FED takes in Gold", Louie?

          Last I heard, everyone was wailing about "all of the garbage on the FED's balance sheet"?

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        • So you are not aware of any payments to the Federal Reserve?

          .... and will you continue to avoid the questions?

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        • What, pray tell, are all of “these payments that the FED takes in Gold”, Louie?

          Please cite your source. When I look at the releases by the Federal Reserve explaining what is ACTUALLY ON THEIR BALANCE sheet - it is unchanged and has been since at least 2002...

          My source: www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/hist/h41hist2.pdf

          So I ask again Louie, when YOU SPECIFICALLY SAID "The FED takes all of it’s payments in gold. They love it."

          Where is your proof for this statement?

          I look forward to your response.

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        • Here we go, around in circles.

          Are you contending that The Fed has received no payments since 2002?
          [this is a yes or no question]

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        • God, extracting a source from you is like pulling teeth.

          Yes, as referenced before, the amount of gold stock on the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve is essentially unchanged since Dec. 18th, 2002.

          So, where can I learn "The FED takes all of it’s payments in gold. They love it."?

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        • Not sure what God has to do with this since it was you that decided on the style of banter we share.

          There is an inflow and and outflow of payments to The Fed. The fact that the bottom line is 'esssentially unchanged' during a particular time period means nothing. When you get tired of dancing you can point to another medium that The Fed accepts as payment , and then point to where a transaction with The Fed involved this medium unattached to gold.

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        • So you are saying "The FED takes all of it’s (sic) payments in gold. They love it." and somehow the Federal Reserve has a net zero change of gold on their balance sheet (as I provided above) because, miraculously, inflows and outflows just happen to net to zero? Wow!

          How about this for a more accurate statement:

          "Federal Reserve Banks neither buy nor sell precious metals."
          www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqgs.htm

          Louie, you are a longshot away from the truth.

          Let me know when you have an ounce of proof supporting your original, completely unsupported, statement that "The FED takes all of it’s (sic) payments in gold. They love it."

          Look forward to your response.

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        • Let me put you out of your misery, Louie:

          "Federal Reserve Banks neither buy nor sell precious metals."
          http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqgs.htm

          Again, you happen to be a longshot away from reality.

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        • I am humbled by your dedication to padding my misery index, especially while being steeped in your own self-inflicted misery.

          Who mentioned buying or selling? You really do have some troubles with that pesky English language.

          Are you still into self-flagellation? That would explain your thrice daily romps through a site full of people that you despise.

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        • Longshotlouie says: "Who mentioned buying or selling?"

          Wow, is this a 'Rand-Paul-ian' like backtrack! Admirable.

          Let me know when you have a shred of evidence proving your original statement of "The FED takes all of it’s payments in gold. They love it." or if you want to keep up your little dance.

          I have shown you that they do not buy or sell gold, and that they have no net change of gold stock since at least 2002.

          But hey, keep letting that rhetoric trump the Truth!

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        • I am in awe of the many ways that you have for deflection.

          Do you remember the question after all of that?

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        • Forest doesn't answer questions Louie. If he did, he might get himself caught up in a rational conversation.

          The only time he ever answered one of my questions he ended up admitting that he agrees with half of the things Ron Paul stands for, he just can't live with the fact that the people who post here think they know more about the Fed than he does. I've concluded that he can't beat them in a rational argument, so he resorts to deflections, logical fallacies, childish generalizations and disastrous leaps of faith.

          In other words, Forest is just throwing a temper tantrum because he recently found out how wrong he is.

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  14. "Why am I being censored? Is quoting the US Constitution a threat to your ideals?" -Censored

    Censored, you cant question Ron Paul's ways on Ron Pauls website, even if you do make a good point.

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    • You would think even if that's not their preferred "interpretation" of the US Constitution they'd still be willing to use the fact that they US Constitution allows states to coin gold and silver currency. Or to put it more accurately, the States did not sign away their right to produce gold and silver currency when they signed the US Constitution. So if that's such a good thing, then why not have the state of Texas, whose economy is larger than that of most of the world's nations, coin it's own gold and silver currency -- legally -- and show us all the benefits?

      Instead they all whine about how it should be legal for anyone to coin gold and silver currency. Stop whining and do what is legal. In fact, since states did not sign away their rights to coin gold and silver, then that means they can allow private interests to coin gold and silver too, should they want to pass the appropriate laws. Instead of whining about being allowed to do this or that by the federal government, why not take advantage of what is allowed by the US Constitution?

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    • Whiners should actually whine about something of relevance.

      lmao

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  15. Why am I being censored? Is quoting the US Constitution a threat to your ideals?

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    • Don't be ridiculous. You are a valuable contributor to this site and your point of view is always appreciated. The post you are referring to was automatically set aside for moderation by our anti-spam service as it was essentially a duplicate of another post you had made earlier.

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    • Chill sis.

      This site gives more leeway than any other.

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