913 responses to “Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots: Stop Your Demagogy About The NYC Mosque!”

  1. the Dood

    Ok, back on topic. This is exactly the type of rhetoric that gets me:

    Mr. Paul: “The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.”

    Why not mention the initial invasion which was Afghanistan? Did you just completely forget about al-Qaida training camps in Afghanistan, extremist madrassas, etc? Is al-Qaida summed up by you as a Saudi Arabian nationalist movement which exists because of anti-US sentiment in Saudi Arabia? Do you think that the US causes attacks on itself and Europeans are at fault for al-Qaida attacks on them, Russia, etc and we should do like the Spanish and become passivises so al-Qaida doesn’t bomb our public transportation anymore?

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    1. Carlos Aguilar

      You’re right. Europe doesn’t have a big footprint in the middle east and they get bombed. Same with Indonesia, malaysia, etc. Ron Paul is an anti-semite pure and simple.

      If you really want to know the the Genisis of Osama bin Laden then read one book, “The looming tower”, it tells all.

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  2. TruthSeeker

    Carlos Aguilar,

    I do not know who is living in the Parallel universe. I challenge you to give me one piece of evidence that Muslims did 911. All you have to do is look up the FBI Most Wanted website and you will see that the FBI could not link Bin Laden to 911 and that’s why he was not charged for it. Could you tell me what the hell we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq? Bin Laden has been dead since December of 2001 and we still see videos of him threatening us. Is that a joke? Besides who is Bin Laden? He has always been our asset and our Carlyle group still does business with his family. Even if Bin Laden did it, how does that make all Muslims and Islam liable for it? Look man, if you are in search of the truth, all you have to do is look up Dr. Alan Pastore on google. Like I said I included the link to his investigative work in a previous post. If you scroll back the posts, you will see it.

    Israel is not our ally. Evidence?

    1. USS liberty
    2. Continued espionage on us stealing our military and technological secrets employing their Zionist sayanim assets in the US.
    3. Failing to inform us about the marine bombing of 1982 in Lebanon when they had advance knowledge that could have stopped the killing of our 241 American marines. Look up ex-Mossad Victor Ostrovsky book, “By Way of Deception.”
    4. Israel is a liability to us and has not served our interest.
    5. There is mounting evidence that 911 was an Israeli (Mossad) operation.

    Again I am not spreading propaganda. All I am asking you is to do your own homework, and if it still does not make sense to you, then you are free to sustain your views. As for me, I am always open for new outlooks, but only with evidence. I do not appreciate ignorant hard headed people. If we are not going somewhere with this, then save your time and energy so that I may do the same.

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    1. fact seeker

      “5. There is mounting evidence that 911 was an Israeli (Mossad) operation.”

      This is, in fact, bull shit.

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    2. Carlos Aguilar

      I have done my own homework. But the real question is why would Israel attack America? We’re the only ones protecting them. I know what you’re saying they have nukes they have an army they can protect themselves. Think of it this way, the state of Israel could fit in lake michigan. One bomb could take out that country in seconds. The only thing that stops the rest of the middle east from invading Israel is us. It’s completely illogical to think Israel is going to undermine the United States their security blanket. Sorry bro, logic always wins out.

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      1. TruthSeeker

        Carlos,

        I am glad that you are appealing to logic. I must agree with the principle, but the logic also implies that Israel has substantial interest in making the Arabs and Muslims the US enemies. Add to that, the logic also implies that the ambitious globalists and the military industrial complex have substantial interest in wars and tension. Over 60% of the world reserve from energy is housed in Central Asia. The Soviet Union has been dismantled and the districts rich in oil and natural gas are the target of the globalists who sadly “represent” America. They want us to believe that this is our America. I must dissent. If you are in the business of making weapons and no one consumes or uses you products —weapons, the logic implies that you are not going to be peace advocate. Are you with me so far? The logical explanation for all this odd behavior of the Israelis is to accuse Arabs and Muslims of doing 911 and other events so that US mobilizes its army and attacks the Arabs and Muslims for the benefit of Israel. The Arab and Muslim countries were the US allies in WWI and WWII, the Golf War, and throughout the Cold War with the Soviet Union. Arabs and Muslims hate communism, do you know that? Arabs and Muslims believe in Free Market and Free Enterprise and they did not support mush of socialist national attempts like that of Nasser of Egypt who attempted to socialize the whole Arab World. Naturally and ideologically Arabs and Muslims are more inclined towards the West. Something I myself find a little odd but that is a fact. A combination of facts and logic will lead you to the truth if you have no pre-conceived biases. I am pro America first, but America the People, not the military industrial complex, not the neo-conservative parasite America, not the Zionist infiltrated America. I want us to be # one nation in the world. I want us to spread our values of liberty to the entire world, though not through force, but through cultural dialogue and exchange. We waged wars throughout the past century, what did we get out of it? WWI was not ours, nor was WWII. We lost many of our brave soldiers there. We have been in Iraq and Afghanistan for almost a decade, our gas prices went up instead throughout most of the Bush administration, our unemployment has been on the rise, and our investments are dust. The bailouts came out to bail the rich and the non-needy, not the owners of the two million plus vacant homes that have been foreclosed. Israel continues to get its annual aid (state welfare) while many of our schools and public libraries continue to shut down for lack of funds. In many localities the unemployed are on a waiting list before they can secure unemployment benefits. Our national debt is about 14 trillion dollars with the last 2 trillions borrowed during the Obama administration. Our dollar continues to lose its value globally and many foreign investors are not happy with our “thin aired” currency. The logic implies that we look after ourselves before we take care of others. Israel is a sovereign nation and has the power to take care of itself. As long as we back up Israel militarily and financially, Israel will never have the incentive to negotiate and make peace with its neighbors like a spoiled child that is offensive to his peers with the unconditional support of his parents. Anyway, I am enclosing the link again. Please take a look at it and assess the truth for yourself:

        http://iamthewitness.com/books/Albert.D.Pastore/Stranger.than.fiction.htm

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        1. Carlos Aguilar

          The sum of all fears theory.

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  3. TruthSeeker

    Hey Carlos Aguire,

    You are a first generation Mexican American, so you feel like you have to overdo your loyalty to this mainstream culture in order to fit and get along. I hope not. My question to you: are you racist? I am going to answer for you unless you respond otherwise. I am going to say you are not. So if so, do you know that Zionism=racism=colonialism=exclusion=genocide & replacement of indigenous population?

    We did it to the Native Americans whom you descended from, but then we grew out of it at least partially. We came here as immigrants and they were the natives and the true owners of the land. We did not discover them; they discovered us standing on their land! We had no right to replace them although we could have co-existed peacefully with them. Before 1948, there was nothing called Israel. In 1947, the Palestinians were the indigenous population that inhibited the majority of the land and they were three times the Jewish population. The Jews owned only 7% of the land while 93% was owned by Palestinians. Only mass Jewish immigrations run under the cover of the British mandate of Palestine made the Jewish population reach about one third of the overall population. After the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, more immigration in mass amounted to turning the Jewish population into a majority. Over 500 Palestinian towns and villages were terrorized, attacked, and consequently annexed to the state of Israel in 1948 which amounted to the biggest Palestinian land loss. As we speak now, the Arab population of Israel has just become a majority again which is a major concern to Israel. The Arabs to your information Mr. Aguire never had a problem with the Jews before 1948. In fact may Palestinian Jews who were native to Palestine like the Natura Karta group refused to acknowledge the State of Israel and they continue to identify themselves as Palestinians, not Israelis. There are many other small Jewish communities that lived in Palestine in peace with Arabs, not to speak of the thousands of Jews who still live in Arab countries in peace with the Arabs. They refused to make Alyia (Zionist immigration) to Israel (land of Palestine) because they are happy and well-established where they are. The idea of Zionism is grounded into racism and exclusive ownership of the land based on frivolous and misinterpreted quotations from the Old Testament. Religion regulates the conduct of individuals; it is not in the business of leasing land and real estate. God loves all his creation equally and Judaism is not about occupation and exploitation as understood by many Orthodox Jews themselves. It is even unfair to equate Zionism with Judaism. In fact many anti-Zionist voices came from Jews themselves. All you have to do is google it and will see that clearly.

    To say that you are a Christian Zionist, you are really also saying that you do not understand the essence of Christianity. Following Christ is to promote peace and justice on earth. You can not be Christian and bigot also. Zionism is giving the exclusive right to Jews to replace and discriminate against the Palestinians who are the indigenous population which was there for at least thirteen hundreds continuous years and were even there before the Hebrew race inhibited Palestine. This is undisputed history. If the Jews came to Palestine and said let’s build the Semite state for all Jews and Arabs and lets make everyone a citizen that enjoys equal protection under the law, Palestinians and Arabs would have blessed their steps, but instead, they denied the existence of the native population and claimed exclusive right to inhibit the land because they are the chosen race! Chosen for what? For crimes? Land robbery? Genocide, Oppression? How could you belong to God when you treat your neighbor like that? How could a true God and a religion describe a gentile as a two-legged beast that is good for nothing and the only one good is a dead one? Wake up Mr. Aguire and open yourself to the truth. Decency and the Golden Rule is the essence of every true religion. I invite you for a course in search of the truth. Stop watching airhead religious denomination broadcasts, stop listening to mainstream media. Do your own research and feel the decency in your heart. This is the only way you could be a true Christian.

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    1. fact seeker

      “Before 1948, there was nothing called Israel.”

      This is, in fact, bull shit.

      The kingdom of Israel first came into existence around the 11th century BC.

      “Zionism=racism=colonialism=exclusion=genocide”

      This is, in fact, bull shit.

      Drawing a conclusion that Zionism will end in genocide is short sighted, ignorant, malicious, provocative, unfounded, judgmental, and without support.

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    2. Carlos Aguilar

      Well first of all you keep getting my name wrong. It’s Carlos Aguilar, but i’ll forgive you most of my football coaches and teachers got it wrong to.

      What’s the deal with all the double spaces between your words?

      Racist? At what point in any of my responses did it seem like I was being racist. Quite the opposite, the whole point of this exercise is to defend Israel.

      Irael 101: The jews have been in Israel for over 3,000 years. Zion is an age old name for Jerusalem and the land of Israel. Zionism is an idea of the Jewish people who sought to restore their freedom and independence in their ANCESTRAL homeland. It’s a movement not a religion. The Zionists believed that if the scattered Jews reunited in their historic homeland, joining the Jews who were already there, they could restore their freedom, be free from prejudice and further develop their unique culture.

      Jewish civilization was already over 1,000 years old when the Romans conquered Judea, but the Jews safeguarded their unique heritage for the next two millennia. No matter how far they wandered, how much the adapted to their host societies or how much they were persecuted, Jews maintained their idenity.

      Arabs that live in Israel have more rights, make more money, and have a better quality of life than in their ancestral countries. The irony is that their ancestral countries won’t take them, they won’t absorb any refugees until a two-state solution is resolved.

      To erase alll memory of Judea, Rome renamed it “Palestine” after the Jews biblical enemy, the Philistines, an Aegean people who had once settled along the coast. Afterwards, westerners referred to the Jewish-Christian Holy Land as Palestine. Arab peoples did not widely adopt the name “Palestine” until the 20th century. Though the name had always been associated with Jews, in the 1960s it became associated with the Arab Palestinian nationalist movement.

      I’ll follow up with another history lesson soon, but one last thing. You can be a Christian and support Zionism. It’s like a Christian saying he’s a capitalist. It’s an idea, a movement. So please don’t question my Christianity.

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      1. TruthSeeker

        Carlos,

        First of all I apologize for misspelling you name. I hope that you do not mind addressing you by your first name which is easier for me to use.

        You make an inaccurate parallel between Capitalism and Zionism. Capitalism does not persecute people. It is not grounded into race. You could choose to believe in it or reject it, yet you live in the same nation with its advocates and non-advocates. Capitalism is an ideology that you have a choice over, race is not. Race and religion is a major component in Zionism. You can not be a Palestinian (Muslim or Christian) Zionist without also stripping yourself of the right to live in your own land. There is no law in the world that the civilized community would uphold if it has the consequences of Zionism. Let me give you a relevant example. You define yourself as a first generation Mexican American. That means you most likely acquired your American citizenship by birth or through naturalization at an early age. Imagine someone wacky comes to you and say: you are not an American and therefore you need to get out of America because you have a Chicano blood in you or that you are not protestant. More dramatic than that, you have a family history in the US that goes back to 1400 AD even before the Anglo-Saxon came and lived in the thirteen colonies, and that someone tells you to go home to Spain or the Indian Reservations. The Palestinians who descended from the Arabs of the Peninsula have been continuously in Palestine (the Holy Land) as defined today by map of Israel for at least 1400 years. Original Palestinians who are descendants of the Philistines and Canaanites have been there for millenniums and long before the Hebrew race lived in Palestine. There are some families in Palestine that trace their history to the time of Christ. Now look at the Jewish immigrant’s majority today who live in Israel. They never had ancestry in Palestine whatsoever. They are called the Ashkenazim Jews who descended from the Khazar tribe in what is known today as Russia who’s King at the time converted to Judaism and consequently converted over his whole tribe too. They have not a drop of Semite blood in them. And if you think that God gave the land of Palestine to the Children of Abraham, which is another separate debate, then the Ashkenazim Jews are not the beneficiaries of that religious covenant. Again this is history and you owe it to yourself to know its details. Even if they were the children of Abraham and even if we were to uphold the religious argument, the covenant must include the Arabs who are pure Semites and descendants of Ishmael the other son of Abraham. Now if you were to apply another standard which is based on the length of time or residence as an entitlement to nationality, then by far the Palestinians lived much longer than the Hebrew race in Palestine.

        The most important point is since when we base our nationality entitlement on race and religion? This is a logic that if we to uphold in America, we would have riots and massacres. How do you like to be kicked out from the US because you are just a Chicano? Many years ago when I was in college, I took a history course in which the professor told an intriguing story about a Chicano woman who lived in Colorado all her life. Her family always lived in Colorado through generations of continuous residence. Her genealogy goes back to the governing family of the Mexican officials who ruled the state before 1848, when Colorado was annexed to the US states after the Mexican-American War. That woman was deported to Mexico by US INS agents 8 time for being mistaken with an illegal Mexican in the US! That is a shame. Now Israelis are doing that to Palestinians when they deport them except that where would a Palestinian be deported to when she/he knows of no other place of residence? This is like exiling a US citizen to Germany because someone thinks that his ancestors were German! Look Carlos, we can go on and on with this forever, but I am just giving you some appetizers to encourage you to do more research. The problem in America is the majority are not schooled in history even our own history. Many Americans do not even know that many of the Midwest states used to belong to Mexico and with our Manifest Destiny, now it is ours! Even if I were to be a zealous patriot and conclude that Arizona was in fact a Spanish district that we are entitled to, I would be very hesitant to how I would treat Hispanics in that State knowing what I know about history. The immigration law of profiling in that state is totally disgusting. This is how many Palestinians feel when some Jewish immigrant that has not a drop of Semitism in him tells a Palestinian to relocate to some Arab country when all he knows is Palestine has been his native land for centuries.

        We can believe any religion we want, but we can not hide the fact that Israel is not about religion or justice. It is a colonialist project that was facilitated under the British colonialism of Palestine. It was only made possible through forced mass immigration that no nation in the world could find acceptable. I must go as I am spending too much time on this blog. Thanks for you interest in the subject.

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      2. the Dood

        Carlos,

        What is your main point in this history lesson? I don’t think anyone disputes that the Jews have been around for 3000 years as distinctly Jewish. They have existed peacefully in many different countries including the Muslim world for thousands of years. The present situation with bulldozing lands, laying claim to territory, fights, and childish moves are ALL political acts, not historic rights for Jews. Everyone has a history, including the Palestinians who live there.

        And on your final comment:
        “You can be a Christian and support Zionism. It’s like a Christian saying he’s a capitalist. It’s an idea, a movement. So please don’t question my Christianity.”

        All one has to do is turn on the 700 club and listen to Pat Roberts talk about end of times prophecies and why Christians in America should support Zionism. I ask you, however, what would Jesus do? Wouldn’t Jesus help the poor, the sick, the needy? Wouldn’t he forgive? Would he bulldoze a Palestinian neighborhood for the Jews? Would he support killing hundred or even thousands of Palestinians for every Jew that dies?

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        1. Carlos Aguilar

          I guess you didn’t read TruthSeeker’s response to me. That’s why the history lesson.

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  4. Kendra

    The reading and interpretation of ANY religious book without the knowledge and insight of history is horribly incomplete. I remind EVERYONE quoting any text to keep that in mind.

    I wholeheartedly disagree that verbally claiming you’re of a faith deems you are truly of that faith. I think regardless of which religion or faith you follow, those who have made their faith a central part of their lives, pursue greater understanding through their faith and live by central tenants of those beliefs agree that the individual who acts in direct contradiction to the tenants of their faith is far from speaking for the faith as a whole.

    I hope that Ron Paul is able to get into a higher political position because we need more people visible and in the news who think and act rationally when it comes to “hot button issues.” Civil Rights are not meant to be up for popular vote. Constitutional Rights are not meant to be ignored. We have the rights afforded to us by the constitution to debate these things, and we should wholly make use of that right – but we should do so rationally and without forgetting that the law supersedes whatever comforts & discomforts we have with a specific topic. Violence is not a solution. Violence begets violence.

    Extremists are just that – extreme. In religion and in politics. As a nation we used to recognize them as such and move on… but in my rather short lifetime that has changed and extremists get more and more of the spotlight. It’s a shift that is slowly but surely grinding down our nation…

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    1. the Dood

      @Kendra

      And who gets to decide what the central tenets of any religion are? You propose that religious texts should be put into the context of history, but isn’t that exactly what the Takfirs do? Aren’t they claiming to bring Islam back to it’s original roots? By your definition, the Takfirs are the holders of the central tenets of Islam because they put things into historical context. Also, you gave a textbook “no true Scotsman” argument:

      Fallacy Name:
      No True Scotsman Fallacy

      Alternative Names:
      None

      Category:
      Fallacy of Ambiguity, Fallacy of Presumption

      Explanation

      This is actually a combination of several fallacies, but since it rests ultimately on shifting the meaning of terms — a form of equivocation — and begging the question, it receives special attention.

      The name “No True Scotsman” comes from an odd example involving Scotsmen:

      1. Suppose I assert that no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge. You counter this by pointing out that your friend Angus likes sugar with his porridge. I then say “Ah, yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.”

      Obviously the original assertion about Scotsmen has been challenged quite well, but in attempting to shore it up the speaker uses an ad hoc change combined with a shifted meaning of the words from the original.

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  5. Emminent Domain

    Ron Paul is for the Obama, Ground Zero, 9/11 Terrorist Victory mosque? Whoda thunk it?

    Politicians could stop all this crap by declaring eminent domain and building an ouhouse.

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    1. Rick

      You are either, for property rights and the rule of law, or you are not?

      This is what Dr. Paul, teaches us, by staying true to his convictions, (…which he is demonstrating, for us.) You are confusing his stance on property rights, and his assertion, how the timing of this issue, appears to be, a highly strategic distraction, to the genuine threats to America. Which, frankly and statistically, Islamic extremism… is not high on the list!

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  6. APerez

    This might be neither here nor there but I’d like to get someones opinion. I am a Muslim American. What gets to me are a couple of things – so if someone can just clarify (without hating on me for asking) I would appreciate it.

    We live in America – land of the free – where the constitution protects all sides. In protecting all sides, we all get a voice and a choice. We have the choice to build this mosque near the site of twin towers and talk about it. We have the choice to burn Qurans and talk about it. You can stand on either side BUT you have to accept that the law is for both sides. Ignorant? Yes. From both sides, YES.

    Still, this it is the law of the land, right? What am I missing here? Is it that there are morons out there that are holding signs that say if they build the mosque the terrorists win? How the heck to they win? They did the very thing the Quran says will surely buy them an eternity of hellfire. Is it hard to see/say that when someone does something wrong it does NOT speak for all. You are not allowed to have 70 virgins on earth. How the heck would you get this heaven? When the Oklahoma bombing occurred – was that for ALL caucasians? What about the holocaust? Is that the belief of all Germans?

    Additionally (and please answer): Who brought this to the forefront of the news? Whose agenda is this serving to have the muslims and the pastor fight. Someone had to have brought it to the news… I am almost certain it was for political gain. It had to be. How many mosque permits get approved everyday?

    Second question:
    For years now the US (for whatever reason) has decided that though they are a Christian country they have to apologize for it. No one can say Merry Christmas or Christmas tree. Apparently there have been law suits by people of other religious beliefs (atheists, jews, and muslims) that by the act of very stupid law suits had this changed. (Yes- law suits – look it up)

    Its a Christian country. If this Christian country is sensitive to other religions and people (even though forced by the law) why cant other religions be sensitive to this Christian country?

    Fine right to assembly and freedom of speech. But how dare the mosque and how dare this pastor ask for sensitivity without giving it themselves.

    Please catch me up to speed on whatever it is that I am obviously missing. And again, these are my honest questions. I am not trying to induce hate from anyone. I just want to know what it is that I am missing. I dont think we should build the mosque there. I dont think the pastor should burn the Qurans. But how can one side be insensitive and expect the other side to hear them?

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    1. TruthSeeker

      Peace APerez,

      You already answered some of the questions you are posing. The real story is not about whether Muslims have the right to build or Pastor Jones to burn. There is a dangerous political agenda waged by the war mongers who are preparing us for another military strike. After all the screw-ups we have endured from the same party, they know that this time is not going to be that easy to sell us into war. They have to create a havoc first to distract us into looking in the direction of the war itself, and second to deep our religious wounds and recruit us into another crusade. Yes there has been “nice” public statements against this madness, but I really do not buy them. When Bush or Clinton says something and turn around and do the opposite, I know it is just for political mileage. The war machine is too hungry and must roar NOW. After the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, after the scandalous bailouts, after the economy crash, people are not too excited to go to another war with Iran. How can we get people so emotional that their ability to see and assess is impaired? Create this demagoguery about religions and prove Robert Spencer right. Religions now is our problem, not the greed of the military-industrial-complex, not the greed of banksters who are financing the war machine and robbing our tax money, not the Zionist state that is reaping the fruits of the loom by eliminating all its competition in the region and dramatizing its need for more security hence more US military and financial aid.

      The other important part of the story is about 911, not about religious differences. There have been many rising voices demanding the truth about 911. Anyone with one gram of intelligence knows by now that 911 was not the work of Bin Laden, AlQaida, or any Muslim. To tie the story of a mosque to 911 is the sheer work of Satan. There has been a great concern that people may wake up to the truth of 911 to the point where some interested groups are lobbying for internet censorship and even elimination because the internet provided the perfect forum to unfold the truth. There is a great deal of evidence that 911 was a Mossad operation. I posted the link to some research on that point in a previous post. You may scroll back and find it. God forbid if the American people one day discover that Israel was behind 911. The only democracy holy state in the Middle East will be flattened out. So what we do to make sure that will not happen? Let’s use the delicate subject of religious tension to enforce and re-enforce the lie that Muslims did 911. At the same time, let’s mobilize the nation for another crusade against another Muslim country that has much to offer to feed our greed. The whole Central Asia region is now a bet for the neo-conservative globalist venture after the disintegration of the Soviet Union. I heard that Gen. Petraeus is really excited about the discovery of potential metal mining in Afghanistan. This is disgusting. We are there to rob other nations of their national wealth, not to capture Bin Laden or fight Al-Qaida anymore. You get it? So it is up to us to fall or not fall for the trap. If the Muslims back off from building the mosque which is really a community center, then they are admitting that they did 911 and morally liable for the ones who are alleged to have done it without discrimination. And if they persist, then we are going to have more morons like Pastor Jones who will add more fuel to the fire. It is pure madness and the work of the satanic forces. It is up to us though to wake up and stop watching TV and research the truth about 911, about the wars and its real motives, and about the secret societies that have been balling us around, the ailing economy and all issues of direct concern. If we do that, then we would not have time to sweat over this madness of religious tension. Divide and conquer is the old trick of Satan.

      http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/92.html

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      1. FactSeeker

        “Anyone with one gram of intelligence knows by now that 911 was not the work of Bin Laden, AlQaida, or any Muslim.”

        This is, in fact, bullshit.

        Conspiracy theorists have been debunked time and time again. For instance, 9/11 conspiracy theorists have stated that no phone calls could have been made from the hijacked planes due to technological limitations. This is wholly and completely false, and, to put doubt to rest, has been tested. The results from such testing conclusively declare that technological know-how placed no limits on the phone calls made from the hijacked planes and that the calls were in fact legitimate.

        Claims that 9/11 was somehow conceived of by either the US or Israeli government are akin to claiming the Holocaust never occurred, or was instigated by distraught Jews.

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    2. the Dood

      You say: “Is it hard to see/say that when someone does something wrong it does NOT speak for all. ”

      Then “Its a Christian country. ”

      So is it reasonable to speak of oneness and wholeness if there are exceptions to this? Can one only speak for Islam or Christianity when all agree with that one voice? No time in history do all agree with one because there are always exceptions and if there are exceptions, you can’t just cast out those exceptions as not true members of the group or reclassify viewpoints as legitimate or not, they simply are. Timothy McVeigh did not really legitimately seem to be acting as some voice of Christianity because his attack was clearly political, but the 9/11 bombers did claim their acts as acts of faith for Islam, under Jihad and as self sacrifice and a suicide attack. Anytime you have a majority of muslim there are suicide attacks, look at southern Thailand, Chinese muslims, Russian areas like chechnya, Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Turkey. All of these areas are subject to suicide attack because of Islam, or as you claim untrue or extreme Islam. Either way, it is Islam just as Mormons are Christians, or any other religious branch or belief is what it is and whatever it claims to be because that is what they believe.

      “No one can say Merry Christmas or Christmas tree.”

      This is another example of what is always claimed by the Christian Right as reasons for putting their kids in homeschooling or religious schools, because public schools are government institutions and should definitely not be promoting any one religious sect in America where you have numerous religious beliefs. I do not wish to be forced into public prayer where everyone is asked to bow the head, for no other reason than I don’t want to and don’t have to, so whatever. Christmas is a secular holiday anyway and is based on a pagan holiday which was based on solar cycles. It was adopted by Christians much like the ka’aba was adopted by muslims. Anyway, I digress, but America is a secular government with a primarily Christian public, but all have rights so it is about separation of religion and state because religion and government tend not to mix very well.

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  7. Mick Green

    The US military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq are not wars of aggression as you state. The Taliban in Afghanistan supported the 9-11 attackers and they, Osama bin Laden and other Al Queda leaders are on video celebrating the 9-11 attacks. The US military has rightly fought, killed and captured Taliban in that country and the US is trying to put together some semblance of security and relative stability there.

    The US did not start this conflict. Osama and his friends should have been saying Thank You to the US since the US made it possible for Osama, Al Queda and the Taliban to take charge in Afghanistan after the US supported Mujahadeen kicked out the Russians. Al Queda should also thank the US for all the money Americans have given the bin Ladens and Saudi Arabia through all our oil purchases through the years. More thank yous are owed America from these morons because of the Muslims America helped when the US kicked Sadam Hussein out of Kuwait and when the US helped the Muslims in Kosovo in the 1990s.

    The US rightly kicked Saddam Hussein out of power in Iraq for a few reasons: 1) Saddam was giving money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers who killed Jews in Israel.

    2) Saddam and his supporters attacked Kuwait in 1990 and they continued to threaten Saudi Arabia and Israel after he was kicked out of Kuwait.

    3) Saddam told Dan Rather in a worldwide televised interview a few days before the US took him out of power a few years ago that you could not blame the 911 perpetrators for attacking their aggressor (i.e. the US). At this time Saddam had control of many billions of dollars worth of oil that he could use to fund nefarious activities around the world.

    The apologies are not owed by America, Obama and yourself Ron Paul. No, the apologies are owed to women and people around the world from the misogyny and despicable behavior from the Taliban, Al Queda and the Saddam Husein supporters.

    The US rightly opposed the Russian communist supported Iranian leader in the 1950s by supporting the Shah of Iran. Today the totalitarian Iranian leaders that kicked the Shah out are trying to retaliate against the US by supporting Al Queda.

    Osama Bin Laden and his medieval al Queda friends oppose America’s dealings with the current Saudi government and Israel. Israel deserves to be defended as if it wasn’t for Israel then that strip of land in the desert would be another unproductive region like Palestine. The people the US buys oil from in Saudi Arabia may be suspect, but the Al Queda people attacking us partly as a result of our dealings with the Saudis are just as bad and probably much worse. The US does not deserve to be attacked because we buy oil from the Saudis and because we support Israel.

    There is nothing wrong with America protecting our oil trade. If we stopped buying oil from the middle-east the region would have even more poverty then it has today. Yes we should reduce our oil consumption, but just because we buy and use oil from the middle-east and protect that trade does not make those protective efforts “wars of aggression”.

    I don’t see the rich in Saudi Arabia or Iran setting up universities or productive companies in Palestine. All I see is complaining directed at Israel and the US’s support of Israel.

    Instead of the whining from these radical Islamists the US should be receiving thank you notes for all the money we send there. It was the UK and the US and other western counties that invented the oil based technologies that have resulted in much economic activity in the Middle East. Without this work from the west, the Middle East would look a lot like the poverty stricken areas of Africa.

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    1. Carlos Aguilar

      Mick you’re about the only sain person on this site. Saddam also admitted to F.B.I. interrogator George Pirro that he had pose as if nuclear weapons to fend off Iran. With Clinton downsizing our intelligence agencies relying on Sat. feeds instead of human intelligence and the wall of seperation, we had no choice. 16 resolutions, invasions of other countries, gassing the Kurds and Iranians, half a million women and children dying due to sanctions because he wouldn’t let inspectors in. UN oil for food program going for gold plated AKs for saddams sons. Mass graves, and we have found many weapons he wasn’t supposed to have. No brainer.
      Your dead on about their oil. It was an american geologist who was employed by Saudi Arabia looking for precious minerals and metals when they were about to go bankrupt when he found oil.

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  8. mark

    Yousef Abed, I never blamed all Muslims for 9/11 you make many assumptions. You your self have made many statements about Christians committing atrocities. Those who committed them were men and men commit atrocities not religions and only those within a religion can stop the men who commit them.

    In the days following the 9/11 attracts I stopped by the local mosque which I had known of for many year prior to 9/11. I also stopped by the local Muslim school. I told that I and my friends did not blame them for the acts of a few.

    As for the Muslims who died on 9/11 I feel no less compassion for their families than I do for anyone else who lost loved ones on that day. But those in your religion who hate all Christians will celebrate their deaths. Those Muslims who died will be seen as martyrs. If you have not read the post by American Muslim then maybe you should. One last thing those who show no compassion for their fellow man, deserve no compassion. You can not bring people together by angering them as the Imam is doing in New York. He is showing no compassion to these people. For you to say these people need to get over it, tells me you have never experienced a true loss. You will never understand until it happens to you. I am sorry for you. i will not wish this kind of loss on you or any one else, as you never do get over it. You just learn to live it.

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    1. TruthSeeker

      Hey Mark,

      Listen man. It is me the TruthSeeker again. I called it quit on this forum and I did not want to post anymore. I need to tell you something for last. You have a good spot in you heart and I know that you care about the victims of 911. The dark day of the satanic forces was against all Americans and against all humanity. You know by now that there were Muslims who died on 911, but you probably do not know that there were zero Israelis among the dead! Does that shock you? Here is the link to the list of all who died on 911:

      http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/lists/by-country/page13.html

      Israelis are known for their particular interest in finance and international commerce. The probability that many of them should have been inside the towers on 911 is greater than that for any other nationality, yet there was zero dead! I can go on and on to tell you that Muslims did not do 911, that Islam makes it the greatest sin to kill an innocent soul which makes the killer abide in Hell for eternity. But all this is irrelevant at this time. I believe in peaceful dialogue between religions and there should be a time that all of us sit down like civils and explore each other views on religion, but NOW is not the right time. Behind this hate wave, there exists a great evil for totally different purpose. The war mongers want to strike Iran and they want to soften you and me out on that. They want our blessings so that we continue to give them our tax money and send our young troops to die for their oil industry. You get it? Even if AlQaida did it, Iran should not be attacked, because Iran has nothing to do with 911 besides Iran is a Shiite sect of Islam which hates AlQaida. Once again do not be fooled by the warlords who want to see more destruction to our nation. We are tired of being used and abused. If you have strong views against Islam, keep it for another time and debate it with some Muslim scholars. Do not waste your time blogging with people who know very little or nothing. This is my advice to you. I hope it is worth something to you. Peace man!

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      1. mark

        I just wanted you to know there were about 300 Jews who died in the 9/11 attacks. They may not been Israelis but they were Jewish. I don’t know what floors the Israelis occupied in the World Trade Center but I do know that most of the people escaped that were on the lower floors.

        The thing that truly disturbed about the event happening is the week before I had a friend who had just been NY and went in the towers. I told her I would never step foot inside them and that I would out live them. Even when they were first built I would not go inside with my family. I waited outside by myself. Even then I knew something bad would happen there.

        Three days before the shooting in Blacksburg VA I met a young woman who told me she was returning there for college an instance cold came over me and I told her it was a bad place, don’t go. I hope these were just codependents. I really do fear the burning of the Cor’an.

        I want all people to have compassion for each other and live in peace. Life is too short wast on hate. I hate no one and try hard not judge my fellow man.

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        1. TruthSeeker

          I believe you Mark because I want to live in peace too, but the only way to live in peace in this world I found out from experience, I am almost 50 years old, is to bridge the differences between us and others, not to highlight the differences. I can quote nasty stuff in the Talmud about the Gentiles, but what favor would I be doing the Gentiles by doing that? The only way we can agree is to find common things among us and benefit from its collective power. We are all Americans. We love our nation. Yes we all have different belief systems and we came from different cultural backgrounds, but we all want to be number one nation in the world. We want our children to excel in school. We want our neighborhoods drug free, and we want to revive our economy and have good fulfilling jobs. We can joke about our differences instead of fighting over it. I do that all the time and it works. I have some of the funniest jokes about Arabs, Muslims, Jews, and Christians even Buddhists. Burning the Koran is a stupid thing to do but reacting to it would be even more stupid. Just because someone burns the Koran, that does not burn the belief system itself. It is just papers that will be wasted. I am enclosing the following link for your entertainment and education. Keep your good spirit up:

          http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/932.html

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  9. Muslim America

    I admire Imam Anjem Choudary and I talk like him. If you’re a Muslim, you should know the following verses for all Muslims:

    Qur’an (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”

    Qur’an (2:244) – “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.”

    Qur’an (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.”

    Qur’an (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

    Qur’an (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority.”

    Qur’an (4:76) – “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…”

    Qur’an (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

    Qur’an (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.”

    Qur’an (4:104) – “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…”

    Qur’an (8:15) – “O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey’s end.”

    Qur’an (8:39) – “And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah”

    Qur’an (8:57) – “If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.”

    A good Muslim follows the teachings of the Prophet!

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    1. mark

      The true God doesn’t need mans help and ask only that you honor and praise him. Only Satan needs mans help.

      1 Corinthians 14:33
      For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

      Hebrews 2:14
      Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

      Matthew 4:6
      And said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you,’ and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”

      Revelation 19:20
      And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

      Revelation 13:1-18
      And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. …

      2 Peter 2:1
      But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

      Revelation 20:10
      And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

      Revelation 20:4
      Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

      Revelation 20:2-5
      And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

      Revelation 19:11-21
      Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. …

      Revelation 17:8
      The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

      Revelation 14:10-11
      He also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

      Revelation 13:8
      And all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

      Revelation 13:1
      And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads.

      Revelation 12:3
      And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems.

      Revelation 11:3
      And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

      Revelation 11:2
      But do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

      Revelation 9:5
      They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone.

      Revelation 6:11
      Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

      l
      Jude 1:3
      Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

      2 Peter 3:8
      But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

      Galatians 3:24
      So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

      1 Corinthians 15:52
      In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

      Romans 11:25
      Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

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    2. the Dood

      Those moslems have bad stuff in their qu’ran, they should just go off the christian bible like this verse:

      deuteronomy 10:10-20

      10When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

      16However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17Completely destroya them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.

      19When you lay siege to a city for a long time, fighting against it to capture it, do not destroy its trees by putting an ax to them, because you can eat their fruit. Do not cut them down. Are the trees of the field people, that you should besiege them?b 20However, you may cut down trees that you know are not fruit trees and use them to build siege works until the city at war with you falls.

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    3. Yousef Abed

      Would you like me to pull things out of context in the Bible? I can do it to, here is like 20 seconds worth.

      #1 – Psalm 137:9

      “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

      #8 – 1 Samuel 18:25-27

      Then Saul said, “Thus shall you say to David, ‘The king desires no bride-price except a hundred foreskins of the Philistines, that he may be avenged of the king’s enemies.’” Now Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines. And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king’s son-in-law. Before the time had expired, David arose and went, along with his men, and killed two hundred of the Philistines. And David brought their foreskins, which were given in full number to the king, that he might become the king’s son-in-law. And Saul gave him his daughter Michal for a wife.

      Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.–Is.13:18

      Numbers 31:17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

      2 Kings 2:23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

      Psalms 137:9Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks. (NLT)

      Ezekial 9: 5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city

      Deuteronomy 21:18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

      Deuteronomy 22:28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

      Deuteronomy 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife

      Leviticus 20: 27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

      2 Chronicles 15:13That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

      Deuteronomy 17:3And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

      Anyone can take stuff out of context, don’t be a fool, because that is what you make yourself look like when you do stuff like that.

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      1. Yousef Abed

        If we want to play the lets take verses out of context game, we can do this all night, it gets no where. Please try and go for an intellectual discussion instead of the typical “I’m going to pull random stuff out of your holy book” game.

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  10. Froi Vinci

    @ The Dood

    You’re insane. I’M A HARDCORE ATHEIST! Read my blogs fvdb.wordpress.com

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  11. Froi Vinci

    The Islamists call America a Great Satan so they hit the World Trade Center and killed nearly 3,000 innocent people. They amazingly put the blame on America, a great lie that was supported by the Liberals and Libertarians like Ron Paul. Now they wanted to celebrate their 9/11 victory by erecting an ugly mosque called Cordoba House and label the critics as racists and Islamophobes, another lie that is being supported by liberals and libertarians like Ron Paul.
    America is committing a suicide!

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    1. the Dood

      The world will soon be tired of self-hating negativity and doubt and fear. Do we want to be remembered as the generation of fear? Who cares if someone calls “America” a great satan? Are you so weak that you are bothered by ignorant nonsense? Reality is in what’s real, not some ridiculous fantasy or information operations message, it’s nonsense, forget it. The world is real, not fake crap about paper tigers and jihad, so stop worrying about it and use your brain. Religion is all crap, it’s all bs, and I don’t mean that offensively, I respect your religion, but for real, just ignore the nonsense on the news including Ron Paul. He is not a true libertarian, but a big name so whatever.

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  12. Yousef Abed

    So, once this mosque is built and everything is said and done, because face it..it will be built, what are all you racist bigots going to complain about next?

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    1. MARK

      If you want to see a bigot look in the mirror. McVea hated the government. You need to look up the meaning of the word bigot. Also pay attention when you speel the word to, it’s not ti.

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      1. Yousef Abed

        Mark, you spelled spell wrong, don’t try that kid. Also, I am saying you are a racist and a bigot, all you have done is try and spread hate and intolerance. It is a good thing you suck at it huh? Stop trying to separate Americans who are Muslims from the rest of the country.

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        1. mark

          First I would like to say I am no bigot nor am I racist but your and here is why.

          First I never said anything about any ones race. second Islam is not a race it is a religion that people of many races follow as does all religions. I have no idea of what race you are and don’t care. I am a mix of Sioux Indian and Northern European. My three closest friends are African American, Hispanic, and Euro-Hispanic. I love these three friends like they were my brothers and I treat them as such.

          I have never said that the Imam does not have the right to build where he wants, as I respect the constitution and the freedoms provided therein. What I have said is that this insensitive to those who survived and to the people who lost loved ones on 9/11. I do not believe this choice was made with wisdom. You can not unite people or open a dialog by offending one party or the other. Honestly on both sides there are those who simply refuse to see the other sides point of view. That is one of the first definition of bigotry. i think the wise thing to do is to build outside of the debris zone.

          Now for the burning of the Koran, that also is a right protected by the Constitution. I also see this choice as having a lack of wisdom. This clown has the right to do so. The problem I have with the situation is that the same people who were championing the right to build the mosque are the same people who are decrying the burning of the Koran. That makes them hypocrites and anyone who thinks that way.

          History has recorded that men of all religions have committed acts of atrocity’s against his fellow man in the name of religion with one exception. The religion of Scientology, which I give no creditability to. I know I just pissed someone off with that statement but I am entitled to my opinion.

          Race has nothing to do with this subject and those who bring it up do not understand what racism really is. They belittle the meaning by using it in the wrong context. I do believe that there are haters of Muslims of all races. I don’t know what can be done to change that. I believe that some hated before 9/11 but do so now because of their losses. If you have never experienced the loss of someone very close you can’t know how they feel. I God took my older sister at age 43. She had an aneurysm and I helplessly watched her die. I still have anger to this day and wished it had been me. Do I hate God? No. I don’t believe in hating but I understand why they do. Only those who are hated have the power to change that.

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        2. Yousef Abed

          Mark, I don’t care who your friends, are. The fact of the matter is, no one should feel hurt because a group of Americans want to build a Mosque. The people that “feel hurt” need to get over it and stop trying to blame all Muslims for what happened on 9/11.

          Yes that is right, I said it, they need to get over it. I am not EVER going to apologize for what happened, because I think those people are despicable human beings and they have no similarities to me. They are horrible people that committed a horrible act. I am an American, this is MY country. Stop looking to the Muslim community for an “apology” or for some sort of understanding, you and all the other 9/11 victims can get over it. Plus I find it very very disrespectful to the families of the real 9/11 victims that you and all the other anti-American bigots would even use their hurt for your own pathetic gain.

          Muslims also died on 9/11….not as the terrorists put as innocent victims that were in the tower. Muslims also lost loved ones and friends, stop trying to alienate a group of people because of their religious beliefs.

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  13. David A Morse

    Its an outrage. Where are the statements opposed to burning the Koran from people opposed to the community center. Many claim it is insensitive to victims families. But its also insensitive to Muslims to burn the Koran. You should also oppose this if you expect Muslims to move the community center.

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  14. the Dood

    One a them Canadian ay-rab chinamen tried to steal my potted blackberry plant. It was planted in some American soil. Well, maybe there was some Canadian soil in there too, which of course is NOT in America. They have no right to my American soil because in history class I learnt that they was from one of them other sons of Abraham. Well, maybe they was from the son that Abraham almost murdered until God stopped him from which he was gonna kill his own son. God should have let him kill that ay-rab chinaman! My soil!

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  15. David A Morse

    The United States NOT an Empire? What world do you live on? Iran has every right to hate America. If you knew your real history, you would know how evil we are. We removed the elected government in Iran because they wanted to control their own oil reserves. We are responsible for our current problems with Iran. If we did not remove their elected government than its unlikely we would have invaded Iraq. Iran could well be our friend in the Middle East.

    For nearly five decades, America’s role in the military coup that ousted Iran’s elected prime minister and returned the shah to power has been lost to history, the subject of fierce debate in Iran and stony silence in the United States. One by one, participants have retired or died without revealing key details, and the Central Intelligence Agency said a number of records of the operation — its first successful overthrow of a foreign government — had been destroyed.

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  16. the Dood

    You know what happens when sharia happens? They chop off your wrists, man. That is uncooth (or is it uncouth?). I’m going to build the biggest bigger building than the sharia courts in ground zero dood, I’m going to build a giant butt cheek, equip with farting sound at regular interval. On it I will tattoo “sweat cheeks” as a giant thumb the nose at aha and nanny nanny boo boo, i built a building… thhhppptts!

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  17. Muslim America

    As a Muslim, Inshallah thank to Rep. Ron Paul for helping us in our fight in the United States. May Allah bless this man for speaking against the Islamophobic Americans who try their best to oppose the will of Allah in the United States. Allah is the only God and nobody could ever oppose or prevent his will to happen.

    Islam will be the most dominant religion in the world and we pray to Allah for the success of the Cordoba center. It will be the crowning glory of Islam in the Western world. It will be a message to every good Muslim on earth that Islam is and will always be the greatest and the most dominant religion in the world. All the sins of America can only be cured if Islam becomes the way of life in the US. Sharia law will be imposed and the Koran will be the law of the land. That day is very near. All Jews and infidels must be annihilated in order to pave the way for the coming of Allah.

    ALLAHU AKBAR!

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    1. the Dood

      inshallah dood! dude, we’re talking about unchecked theological aggression here, and that is very un-Dude, and yeah, well… that’s just your opinion anyway man. Ah well, enough’s enough.

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    2. Rick

      Nice try… Neocon!

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    3. Yousef Abed

      I am guessing you are either:

      1. Someone that is against the mosque disguising themselves as a Muslim so you can further spread your hate…or..

      2. Some shallow minded radical Muslim who needs to learn what his religion teaches.

      I am going to go with the first option.

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      1. Muslim America

        Yousef Abed,

        Are you even a Muslim. I admire Imam Anjem Choudary and I talk like him. If you’re a Muslim, you should know the following verses for all Muslims:

        Qur’an (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”

        Qur’an (2:244) – “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.”

        Qur’an (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.”

        Qur’an (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

        Qur’an (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority.”

        Qur’an (4:76) – “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…”

        Qur’an (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

        Qur’an (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.”

        Qur’an (4:104) – “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…”

        Qur’an (8:15) – “O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey’s end.”

        Qur’an (8:39) – “And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah”

        Qur’an (8:57) – “If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.”

        A good Muslim follows the teachings of the Prophet!

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  18. Pro-Liberty

    This Libertarian politician is merely echoing the anti-American propaganda of the leftists and liberals to topple America and destroy its founding spirit. America is not an empire. It never occupied a foreign territory. Sure, it invaded my country Philippines but it left. America had no intention to occupy the Philippines. In fact most Filipinos should be very grateful for America for saving the Philippines from Japanese occupation. America waged a wrong war against Vietnam and then left the country. Again, it missed the wrong target after the September 11 attack when it invaded Iraq, but America then pulled out its troops and gave what the liberals and conservatives call “democracy” to the savages there.

    Ron Paul firmly believes that the terrorists are motivated by the so-called historical crimes of America. This proves that he also shares the sick mind of Noam Chomsky, who has been spreading Anti-American propaganda and helping the cause of America’s ideological enemies. Yes, both Ron Paul and Noam Chomsky are America’s most useful idiots!

    It seems that Ron Paul is not really listening to the “hate speeches” and anti-American slogans of the terrorists and their sympathizers on American soil. They said they “love death and the Americans love life!” They said they wanted Islam to dominate the world and impose Shariah law. In Iran people shout “Death to America” every Friday as part of their Orwellian “two-minute hate”. They said they all wanted to kill all “infidels and destroy Western Civilization” because that’s what their prophet commanded them to do.

    Indeed, if Mr. Paul were very much familiar with the history of and the principles held by America’s great founding fathers, he must do a Thomas Jefferson. Ron Paul must cure his Islamic idiocy and clarify his perception of reality by getting a copy of the Koran. This is exactly what Thomas Jefferson did.

    CONTINUE… http://fvdb.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/dhimmi-ron-paul-an-evil-appeaser-of-evil/

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    1. Rick

      “This Libertarian politician is merely echoing the anti-American propaganda of the leftists and liberals to topple America and destroy its founding spirit.”

      Dr. Paul is a republican, with libertarian leanings. And, he is the first to admit to that. Anti-American propaganda? I’m sure, most libertarians would be surprised to hear of your supposition, on them being leftist and liberals? Not, to mention, their treasonous desire to topple America, and destroy their founding spirit! I’ve heard, quite a few descriptions, of all the parties. However, your take on the libertarians, is imaginative, to be kind!

      “America is not an empire. It never occupied a foreign territory. Sure, it invaded my country Philippines but it left. America had no intention to occupy the Philippines. In fact most Filipinos should be very grateful for America for saving the Philippines from Japanese occupation.”

      Clearly, America is an Empire, with it’s 700 military bases, in over 130 countries. Over 50 years, defending the Korean border. And ,our never ending attempts, at nation building. Along with, attempts to democratize sovereign nations, who have engaged in tribal/religious conflict throughout their history! Over 50,000 troops, 5000 SpecOps, 100,000 private contractors. And multiple embassies, with two of them larger than the Vatican… to claim Iraq is not an occupied nation, is equally imaginative.

      “America waged a wrong war against Vietnam and then left the country.”

      Vietnam? No argument here! Like Iraq and Afghanistan, an incredibly foolish “Police action” where, in that example, we lacked the will to finish, while having the might to do so! 65,000 of my comrades lost their lives, with hundreds of thousands more coming home wounded, physically and/or mentally.

      “Again, it missed the wrong target after the September 11 attack when it invaded Iraq, but America then pulled out its troops and gave what the liberals and conservatives call “democracy” to the savages there.”

      Obviously, we used 9/11, as an excuse to secure oil supplies, in a clearly geopolitical move. WMD’s… Hussein… all plausible excuses for two invasions of a sovereign country, which created the perfect recruiting environment for Al Qaeda.

      Ron Paul firmly believes that the terrorists are motivated by the so-called historical crimes of America. This proves that he also shares the sick mind of Noam Chomsky, who has been spreading Anti-American propaganda and helping the cause of America’s ideological enemies. Yes, both Ron Paul and Noam Chomsky are America’s most useful idiots!”

      Google: Operation Ajax, for your history lesson on why Dr. Paul, recognizes the CIA warnings of “Blowback” There is nothing anti-American, about expounding the truth! Modern America, would do well, to take heed of Dr. Paul’s warnings… all which have borne fruit!

      “It seems that Ron Paul is not really listening to the “hate speeches” and anti-American slogans of the terrorists and their sympathizers on American soil. They said they “love death and the Americans love life!” They said they wanted Islam to dominate the world and impose Shariah law. In Iran people shout “Death to America” every Friday as part of their Orwellian “two-minute hate”. They said they all wanted to kill all “infidels and destroy Western Civilization” because that’s what their prophet commanded them to do.”

      Do all Muslims embrace your beliefs? Doubtful! Christians, seek world evangelism, as well! Oklahoma bomber, Timothy McVeigh, was a Christian. Should we persecute all Christians? How about the KKK? Do I personally, believe that we should be very wary of Muslims in America… yes! Don’t think Ron Paul, isn’t, as well!

      “Indeed, if Mr. Paul were very much familiar with the history of and the principles held by America’s great founding fathers, he must do a Thomas Jefferson. Ron Paul must cure his Islamic idiocy and clarify his perception of reality by getting a copy of the Koran. This is exactly what Thomas Jefferson did.”

      Ron Paul is a statesman. No doubt, far more versed on the intent and actual framing of the founding fathers’ than you and I? If you took the time, to truly do your due-diligence on Dr. Paul… you would not worry, just as I don’t!

      Speak softly, but carry a big stick! Do not confuse his attempts to restore the republic, and to fight our biggest threat… economics. With weakness, or rose colored glasses.

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    2. TruthSeeker

      Pro-Liberty,

      I am quoting you in parenthesis. The rest is my commentary:

      “This Libertarian politician is merely echoing the anti-American propaganda of the leftists and liberals to topple America and destroy its founding spirit.”

      Liberty is the founding spirit of America you smart. People came from all over the world including you because they were not happy in their native nations which tried to impose its religious, social, and political dogma on them. America was meant to be the land of tolerance and opportunity, not the land of oppression and exploitation. Only the ones who try to impose their personal and religious dogma on others are the ones anti-American.

      “America is not an empire. It never occupied a foreign territory.”

      Is that a joke? America has permanent military bases all over the world and America is currently occupying two nations and has been for years now. I do not know what your definition of empire is. But this is America the military-industrial-complex, not our America—the people’s America. This is coming to an end as naive citizens are waking up.

      “Sure, it invaded my country Philippines but it left. America had no intention to occupy the Philippines. In fact most Filipinos should be very grateful for America for saving the Philippines from Japanese occupation. America waged a wrong war against Vietnam and then left the country. Again, it missed the wrong target after the September 11 attack when it invaded Iraq, but America then pulled out its troops and gave what the liberals and conservatives call “democracy” to the savages there.”

      Great! Your America pulled out after our troops died in vain, killed millions of innocent others, displaced many more, and installed dictators who ruled their nation by the iron fist. Who made a buck out of that? Definitely not the American people. If that is what you call liberty to the savage, they are better off staying savage!

      “Ron Paul firmly believes that the terrorists are motivated by the so-called historical crimes of America. This proves that he also shares the sick mind of Noam Chomsky, who has been spreading Anti-American propaganda and helping the cause of America’s ideological enemies. Yes, both Ron Paul and Noam Chomsky are America’s most useful idiots!”

      The ideological enemies of America are inside America, the neo-conservatives, and the Zionist camp which wasted America’s resources in vanity wars, killed its young troops, crashed its economy, robbed its tax contributions, instilled fear and hate into its life, created a shadow enemy in the caves of nowhere. As Thomas Jefferson noted, dissent is patriotism. Ron Paul and Noam Chomsky are no idiots; I see people like your the idiots who will be next in line in the slaughter house.

      “It seems that Ron Paul is not really listening to the “hate speeches” and anti-American slogans of the terrorists and their sympathizers on American soil. They said they “love death and the Americans love life!” They said they wanted Islam to dominate the world and impose Shariah law. In Iran people shout “Death to America” every Friday as part of their Orwellian “two-minute hate”. They said they all wanted to kill all “infidels and destroy Western Civilization” because that’s what their prophet commanded them to do.”

      I do not know if you ever went to college or if you ever took History of Western Civilization, but the Islamic History is taught as a part of the Western Civilization. Muslims had great contributions to mankind in all branches of science, philosophy, architect, mathematics, and humanities. Their Shariah law teaches that killing one innocent soul is like killing all mankind, and restoring life to one single soul is like restoring life to all mankind. Those accused of violating this law is our intelligence asset and we made them. Remember? Do your own research pal and stop clapping your hands after war mongers who have their agenda behind all of this. They made huge money off the war and managed to serve the interest of parasite foreign nations which used and abuse us.

      “Indeed, if Mr. Paul were very much familiar with the history of and the principles held by America’s great founding fathers, he must do a Thomas Jefferson. Ron Paul must cure his Islamic idiocy and clarify his perception of reality by getting a copy of the Koran. This is exactly what Thomas Jefferson did.”

      Thomas Jefferson got a copy of the Koran, read it and never waged wars against the Muslims. He saw his enemies in the British Monarchy which exploited the American people. I do not know what you know about Thomas Jefferson besides that he got a copy of the Koran. Go back and read more of Thomas Jefferson, because either he will change you, or you will never read him again.

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  19. TeflonHeretic

    Ach…achhh….NEVILLECHAMBERLAIN!

    Sneeze – sorry.

    ‘Scuse me now, I’m off for a little aggressive oppression of some mild-mannered peaceful Muslims.

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  20. Robert Keltner

    Dear Congressman Paul,

    I have been a member of the John Birch Society since 1964 and am very much aware of your libertarian views, with which I agree about 90% of the time. However, I feel you display both ignorance and arrogance with your arguments for building a mosque at this location. This is certainly not a matter of First Amendment rights. First Amendment rights is just a straw man. It is surely not an argument used by the opposition. You seem to be totally unaware of the dangers from this supposedly minuscule group of Jihadists. Instead of condemning the jihadists and minimizing the horrific risk that they pose to America; in your position of authority you should be in the vanguard of those defending America against this internal Jihad.

    You are apparently unaware of the following facts, not opinions:

    1. Cordoba, the name chosen by Muslims for this mosque, was the Spanish city where a Mosque was built upon the foundation of a catholic cathedral in commemoration of their great victory over the “infidels”. The symbolism is painful and obvious.
    2. The mosque in Istanbul was built upon the site of a former Christian church, also in celebration of their great victory over the “infidels”.
    3. Both the Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his wife have made outrageous comments about the complicity of the U.S. in the 9/11 attacks. Even if you disagree with the nation-building of the Neo-cons, as I do, your outspoken agreement with the position of these two despicable Muslims is unconscionable and supports their evil agenda in destroying the “Great Satan”.
    4. On Sept 1, a group of Hamas terrorists dragged (4) people from their car on their way home from work in Israel and shot all of them. As you are aware, one of the two women was pregnant. Hamas quickly claimed credit, calling it an “heroic” act. The Imam who is pressing for this Ground Zero mosque has heretofore refused to refer to Hamas as a terrorist organization. Let’s see what this Imam and his wife have to say in the wake of this most recent savagery.
    5. The proposed mosque so near ground zero would not be merely a religious institution. It would be, as many mosques throughout the nation are, a terrorist recruitment, indoctrination and training center. It is not the worship of Islam that is the problem. It is the efforts to advance Sharia Law with its requirement of Jihad and violence that is the issue.
    6. There is a global effort to advance Sharia Law and make it the legal system of the world. Most major banks and financial institutions offer Sharia- Compliant Funds which have their investments vetted by the most fundamentalist and reactionary of clerics to assure that they advance Sharia Law. Imam Rauf, founder of the proposed Mosque, helps to prepare a Sharia Index which rates countries on their degree of compliance with Sharia Law. In the United Kingdom, many courts have recognized Sharia as the governing law on matters between two Muslims.

    The incredible arrogance of these Imams is infuriating. They emigrate to another country, which obviously has a traditional legal system that has worked magnificently for several centuries, and still expect their adopted country to implement a system that complies with their religion. The fact that the Muslim population of the U.S. is slightly more than 1% of the total simply compounds the arrogance of their position. Where are these guys coming from? Sadly, the political correctness of gutless liberals is enabling their outrageous behavior. As you are probably aware, U.S. textbooks absolutely reek with pro-Muslim bias. Where does any reasonable person think this will end?

    Although I recently worked for a very fine Muslim man and realize that many, if not most, Muslims are loyal, peace-loving Americans, there are at least 10% who are of the Jihadist mentality. Considering the numbers of Muslims in the world, this is a huge absolute number. Many of these are currently residing in the U.S and certainly include these two terrorist slugs, the Imam and his wife. By life experience, I am convinced that the “true believers” in Islam are those who believe in violent Jihad as taught in the Koran.

    As I said earlier in this message, you and others in authority should be leaders in being aware of the challenges America faces and fighting the very thing you protect in the name of the First Amendment. I believe that any American who refuses to take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution should have their citizenship revoked. They certainly have abrogated their right to free speech. The very fiber of our nation is being attacked by such people under the guise of freedom of speech, which they clearly despise as much as they do America and the American way of life.

    Following is a brief bibliography for you, your staff and all Congressmen. From reading about your untenable “First Amendment” argument, you all should do a little catch-up on the terrorist threat.

    “America Alone – “The End of the World as we know it” by Mark Steyn
    “Religion of Peace – “Why Christians are and Islam isn’t” by Robert Spencer
    “The Politically Correct Guide to the Middle East” by Martin Sieff
    “Epicenter” by Joel Rosenberg
    “How Evil Works” by David Kupelian
    “Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America” by Brigitte Gabriel
    “They must be Stopped: Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Can Do It” by Brigitte Gabriel

    Sincerely, Bob Keltner

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  21. Defend the Constitution!

    Great job Congressman Paul – we need more people like you in America – people who support constitutional rights, no matter what. Ron Paul is not afraid to stand up for what’s right – even if it may not be politically popular. The only reason people oppose the “Mosque” is because they are racists and hypocrites, or they are manipulating this issue for political gain. Congressman Paul hit the nail on the head with this one – and he said it quite eloquently. I hope that his statement will urge more Republicans and Conservatives to support this community center – 2 blocks from ground zero.

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  22. Lev Leybo

    “NARDOM88” PRESENTS: NEW ABOUT 9/11 IN YOUTUBE
    09.11.2001. A MOTHER’S MESSAGE to AMERICANS (NELLY BRAGINSKY).wmv
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_UiDxDFNnM
    09.11.2001.LEONID AMSTISLAVSKY: – I ACCUSE!.wmv http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VgWwYX-oRY

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  23. Rick

    @Roxii Love

    He’s not for the building of the Mosque, or against it. Dr. Paul is a property rights advocate, and cannot pick and choose, who has rights and who doesn’t, while staying true, to his stand on that issue. That, is a local planning and building commission decision. Does Dr. Paul feel the building would be inappropriate? Yes! (Just like most prudent individuals, appear to do!) Do “they” have the right to do build it, under our constitution? Yes!

    You, may have all the validation necessary, to make your case against Islam. Though, on the surface… it is not unlike blaming Christians, for the Oklahoma State Building bombing, because Timothy McVae (sp) was a Christian?

    We either stand for the constitution, or become like those who want to change it?

    Personally, do I trust Islam? I must admit, it’s very hard to do so!

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    1. mark

      Rick, Timothy McVae did not blow up the Oklahoma State Building in the name of Christianity or God, Unlike the 9/11 terrorist who acted in the name Allah and Islam. When you try to make that connection you have lost any validity you may have had.

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      1. Yousef Abed

        Mark, if you spent half the time trying to educate yourself instead of trying ti spread lies and twisting the truth you might actually do the world some good.

        If I put on a rosary don a cross and yell “FOR JESUS” before I shoot someone in the face does that make me a Christian?

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        1. the Dood

          “If I put on a rosary don a cross and yell “FOR JESUS” before I shoot someone in the face does that make me a Christian?”

          Yes, that makes you a Christian.

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      2. Rick

        @Mark

        If, I have lost validity, in your eyes… then clearly, I still have it!

        You, completely missed, the connection, which I WAS making?

        If you blame all Muslims, for the actions of a few… then it would stand to reason, you must blame all Christians, for the actions of a few? Quid pro quo!

        Tim, was a Christian. I do not, hold all Christians culpable, for his behavior. It doesn’t matter, if he screamed, “Praise the lord,” or not… when he set off the bomb.

        The same, would hold true, for those Christians, who kill abortion doctors, in the name of Christ! I don’t, hold all Christians responsible, for these, Christian, extremist, terrorist… either!

        Try, to stay in context?

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        1. mark

          I do not blame all Muslims for the acts of the few and never have. I have never blamed any religion for the acts of evil men. I think you should read the post by American Muslim. I think you should also watch the news and see hot the Muslims of the blaming all of America for the actions of one man even tho thousands maybe more have spoken out against the burning or the Qur’an . The media can’t make up what is happening around the world.

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  24. Roxii Love

    I AM ALL FOR RON PAUL BUT NOT WHILE HE IS FOR A BUILDING THAT SUPPORTS A POILITICAL DOCTORINE OF SHARIA LAW. ADD “ROXII LOVE” ON FACEBOOK.COM IF ANYONE HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE QURAN, JIHAD, WHAT IT SAYS, WHAT IT COMMANDS AND THE TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM AND MUSLIMS. ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION. IT’S A HAZARDOUS IDEOLOGY TO CONQUER AND DESTROY NON MUSLIMS AND THE WESTERN WORLD. THEY ARE ALREADY HAVING PROBLEMS WITH MUSLIMS IN CANADA AND EUROPE, ESP. PARIS AND LONDON. VOTE FOR RON PAUL BUT PRESS ( I ERG YOU AT YOUR MOST POTENTIAL) TO PUSH AND PRESS THE ISSUE AGAINST THE MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO ON 9/11/11.

    IT IS A BRAGGING RIGHT. DON’T BELIEVE ME?? ADD ME. I WILL SHOW YOU THE TRUTH ABOUT MUSLIMS AND ISLAM.

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    1. the Dood

      Roxii,

      “IT IS A BRAGGING RIGHT. DON’T BELIEVE ME?? ADD ME. I WILL SHOW YOU THE TRUTH ABOUT MUSLIMS AND ISLAM.”

      So if what you predict comes true, they brag that they have freedom of religion, property rights and assembly? They wouldn’t be the first, and by the way, they wouldn’t be the only religion trying to instill their superstitious ideologies into codified US law.

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  25. TruthSeeker

    In honor of Senator Ron Paul the courageous, I would like to submit the following link for the enlightenment of those who have been alarmed by his special interest in the history of the banking system in the US:
    http://www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve2.htm
    Peace!

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  26. Frank

    Mr. Morse, you are correct, the state is not to force religion on anybody. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

    BUT!!!!!!

    IF YOU AND OTHERS LIKE YOU SPOUTING THE RIGHT TO DO ANYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY you like to WOULD actually JUST TAKE THE TIME TO READ THE INSCRIPTION ON THE VERY FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES (MR. PAULS’ SO CALLED FIAT MONEY) YOU USE TO PURCHASE YOUR FOOD, GASLOINE AND OTHER NECESSITIES, you would be so enlightened, this nation once ACTUALLY believed in A GOD.

    ALSO, if you study the HOLY BIBLE (the one titled King James Version) the one people use to swear an oath to (like in a court of law and/or when a US politician gets sworn into office) you would quickly find the teachings in this most HOLY BOOK are somewhat different from the teachings of the Koran. Oh, I know Muslims are for love, peace, meekness, tolerance, etc…

    I am just not too sure the people of the extremist fringe of ISLAM are carrying their Korans when they do their illegal, cowardly deeds.

    You see, Mr. Morse, their religion, this so called ISLAM has been hi-jacked, by the extremists, like the planes were on 9-11 and it is not being re-taken by their leaders.

    Why??? Maybe, because the hi-jackers, “the extremists” threaten them too and they are afraid of them.

    “Fear not” is the urging of the GOD I serve.

    Go ahead, let them use their blood money to build the mosque in NYC and then get some lawn chairs out and sit down and watch it burn to the ground, like the rest of our ONCE GOD FEARING NATION!

    And by the way, THE US GOVERNMNET always has the law of “Emminent Domain” in it’s power to take the NYC property if they SO CHOSE.

    Well, maybe not in this case though, as the POTUS is for it too.

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  27. Garry Wood

    I agree with what Mr. paul says about this subject with and emphasis on how politicians are simply using this for their own benefit – stirring the pot and trying to get all of us angry about diversionary issues!

    To my Christian friends I say that to deny the legal right for the construction of a mosque on private grounds near “Ground Zero” in New York City would be like denying the construction of a Christian church near the abortion clinic where a nut-case Christian murdered a doctor for providing a legal medical procedure.

    Point being that we live by a rule of law regardless how infuriating the laws can be to us individually.

    We need to wake up to the real problems in this country and stop being the pawns of those in Washington who prefer to use us instead of representing us!

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    1. mark

      Garry Wood. The right to build is not the point. The point is the wisdom in doing so. Is it wise to do something that hurt your neighbor feelings knowing that will be the end result. Causing animosity toward on purpose, how will this help your relationship. This wasn’t something started by politicians but I will admit that jump on both sides of the fence to get more votes. Over 70% of New Yorkers think it should be built elsewhere. I agree with that. When reaching out it’s not a good idea to slap the person you are reaching to. As for people saying scores for Muslims died , most people don’t know what a score is. Let me clarify, a score is 20. Where I don’t know the actual number who did die I was told it was between 50 and 60. That is a small portion of the total, not to make lite of their deaths. I sure the were loved by their families as mush as all the others. I know that everyone who lost a loved one on that day relive it over and over.

      I know what it’s like to loose someone who is very close unexpectedly and watch them die. I relive it every day. It has been over 11 years it hurts as much today as it did then. The pain never stops the and void is never filled. You just learn to live with it and avoid things that intensify the feelings.

      Building this mosque at this location does just that. People need to have some compassion.

      One more thing the people who say they own the property actually only own half of the property. Con Edison owns the other half. It has also come to light that owners that want to build the mosque owe $255,000 in back taxes. In this economy the building should sold for back taxes.

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  28. vernon weathers

    Mr Paul I have discussed this subject with friends and would like to offer the following collective opinion. This is a Christian nation, at least partially still. Our long standing invitaion to all people has been to give my your tired and your poor. I believe this evolved from the Christian philosophy those true believers brought to the table back in the 1700′s from Jesus’s own words “come unto me all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest”. These were still men who made mistakes themselves, allowing the ownership of slaves but an open mind will bring a man to understanding of how they were to accomplish such a monumental task of uniting a people under one banner. People come to our country bringing all types of baggage nowadays and instead of learning our language, accepting our God and embracing our beliefs want change and tolerance. At some point we must draw a line-enough is enough. Let them build a mosque anywhere else in the world as far as I am concerned, but not here. Not in this country and especially not in New York City! We are not even allowed in their mosques, we’re considered and referred to as infidels, and in their countries; all of them, Christianity is not allowed. I say let them go to their own lands bomb and kill one another if that is their choice, and the media constantly confirms this, but leave us alone and let’s leave them alone. Assist them as we are able with humanitarian aid: food, medication and education; but bring our sons and daughters home and use our money a little more wisely-helping our own people and society which at times appears to be rotting from the inside out.

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    1. David A Morse

      Vernon Weathers “This is a Christian nation, at least partially still. People come to our country bringing all types of baggage nowadays and instead of learning our language, accepting our God and embracing our beliefs want change and tolerance. At some point we must draw a line-enough is enough. Let them build a mosque anywhere else in the world as far as I am concerned, but not here. Not in this country and especially not in New York City!”

      America was never a Christian nation, we are a nation with Freedom of Religion for every person. We are all free to believe in the faith we desire and nobody can force us to believe their faith. Their is no role for the state to mandate our faith. Those that came here in 1620 wanted freedom to worship as they wished because they could not at home.

      Since America is not a Christian nation, Muslims have every Right to builld a Mosque anywhere in America on their property. They can not be forced by anyone to follow “our” God, because America has no state mandated God. The Muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christians. If you were not so stupid you would know this fact.

      If America did not believe in change and tolerance, than we would still have slavery and women could not vote. Change and tolerance is what makes America great. Many American Muslims died on September 11, 2001 and in our military fighting to defend our country.

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    2. the Dood

      Vernon, your comments on Christian nation is way off topic here. But I should expect such ignorance and bigotry from you. Your type of opinion is not representative of the US, even though other countries view us as backwards, ultra-religious, egocentric ignoramuses. There is nothing in the constitution that establishes the US as a Christian or any type of religious nation, in fact it says the opposite, that Congress shall pass no law respecting the establishment of religion. My advice to you Vernon, is to erase everything you think you know and start over from scratch using your noggin, and not what you think is common sense, because you ain’t makin no sense no more..

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  29. the Dood

    They would be less likely to bomb the new WTC if a mosque is there to absorb any collateral damage. I’m just sayin.

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  30. Chris

    I think it’s not about whether building a mosque is ok or not, it’s about building it on a site where obvious muslim fanatics murdered thousands of innocent Americans and nationals from other countries. It’s an insult to me personally as an American. I am against it.

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  31. Nasim

    I want to thank you for your comments on religious freedom and the Park51 Community Center. At a time when many politicians are engaging in fear-mongering and scare tactics, your words reinforce that we are all entitled to the same American values, regardless of faith or ethnicity. As the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) recently indicated, the rise of hate crimes and discrimination against Arab, Muslim and Southeast Asian Americans are on the rise, which is alarming. It is through tolerance and understanding that we will unite and move past the hate crimes and violence. This can be achieved through leadership such as yours.

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  32. Ateeq

    I would like to express my appreciation and gratitude for standing up to the truth even when the truth is not popular. May God help you and give you courage to continue the good work.

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  33. the Dood

    This is true:
    “you cannot generalize from one group of terrorists who attacked us in the name of Islam to all of Islam.”

    This is also true:
    “Yes you can”

    What is the context? Do Muslims all support terrorist attacks? No.
    Would they support attacks legitimately defending Islam? Yes, most likely they would.

    Does Ron Paul himself generalize the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as wars against Islam? Yes, and this is the problem I have with him. It is a political position based on anti-Bush (ie, neo-cons) rhetoric which is not based on reality. If the Afghan war is a war on Islam, then why build mosques in Afghanistan and assist the Afghans in creating an Islamic country with an Islamic constition and Islamic laws? Why assist Shia religious leaders in Iraq under the banner of an Islamic constitution?

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Because to the Libertarian Atheist, “my enemy is your enemy,” is Christianity.

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  34. Carlos Aguilar

    This one takes it. You Mr. Paul could be one of the dumbest son of a bitches I’ve ever encountered.
    A) Nobody has said or implied that Islam itself is solely responsible for 9/11. No one has said or implied that the 19 hijackers spoke for Islam, they spoke for radical Islam. The same way radical Islam is responsible for 9/11, not Islam as a whole. I listen to conservative talk radio, read conservative columns, and go to conservative websites, not one of them has solely blamed “Islam” as the problem, it’s always predicated by the word “Radical”. I don’t know how someone with a Dr. in front of their name could be so stupid. But wait… is it that you are an idiot or do you have your own agenda and narrative you’re trying to slyly convey. I’ll get into that a little later.
    B) Conservatives down the line have said that the people who want to build the mosque have every constitutional right to do so. Once again not one Conservative has said they don’t have a constitutional right to do so “Mr. Constitution”. What we are saying is that it’s insensitive to put a mosque 2 blocks away from one of our darkest days perpetrated by 19 men who attacked us in the name of Islam. Secondly we’re saying that the Imam involved has said some very disgusting things about our country, who won’t classify hamas as a terrorist organization, and won’t tell us where he’s getting his funding from. Are you aware of the Holy land Foundation and their convictions of funneling money to terrorist organizations. How about CAIR named an unidicted co-conspirator in the same case. That’s the largest Muslim charity and the foremost Islamic outreach/Public Relations organization in the country with ties to terrorism. How about the Virginia Mosque down the road from the White House that had Anwar al-Aulaqi spiritual mentor of the Fort Hood shooter and the Christmas day bomber also attended by two of the 9/11 terrorists. Mosques can be breeding grounds for terrorists we know this, it’s not some huge secret. We need to know who’s funding them and who’s going to run them. Not for nothin as my friend mario used to say many mosques are built at the sites of Muslim victories.
    C) The Neo-Cons are behind it, that’s code for the Jews are behind it. Which leds us to the real reason you’re taking the side of the people behind the Ground Zero Mosque. Neo-Cons just happen to be comprised of a lot of people from the Jewish faith. The Kristols, Paul Wolfowitz, Elliott Abrams, Podhoretz Jr. and Sr. ect. I think we’ve all come to know how you feel about the Jews, you are an anti-semite. I don’t say that lightly and I hate when people throw around charges of racism but it’s become just to obvious. I urge anyone who doesn’t believe me to read Dr. Paul’s Newsletter he used to put out. The columns don’t have bi-lines but it doesn’t matter he wrote some of them and if he didn’t he condoned what was in them. Read them and you’ll be enlightened. So it’s a double wammy, Islamists hate the Jews, Neo-Cons are comprised of a lot of people of Jewish faith so Neo-Cons are behind all the hate mongoring and Islamaphobia as a political tactic. How you’re still in congress amazes me.

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    1. Bribo McBain

      You’re calling Dr. Paul dumb because you say that no one has implied that the 19 hijackers spoke for Islam in your first paragraph, and then in the second paragraph you say: “What we are saying is that it’s insensitive to put a mosque 2 blocks away from one of our darkest days perpetrated by 19 men who attacked us in the name of Islam.”

      I think you are confused. If you wanted freedom then you would listen to what Ron Paul says and agree with him. The problem is, people like you are scared of freedom. You’re scared of the truth. And so you revert to contradicting yourself while swearing over the internet, which is pretty weak-minded all in itself.

      Also, your bigotry and prejudices come out when you start categorizing people and blaming things on Jewish people, which is so far removed from any rational argument and is nothing more than conspiracy talk. And we all know only crazy people speak of conspiracy theories…crazy, paranoid people.

      Do us a favor: don’t vote. You’re not smart enough and you’ll only continue the damage.

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      1. Mark

        Bribo McBain. You just twisted the mans words and showed you lack of comprehension. Even tho the 19 terrorist do not speak for all Islam, they did do it in the name of Islam as their leaders have said. What part of that don’t you understand. I will give you an example: When the President any President speaks for America he doesn’t speak for all Americans, because all Americans do not always agree with what the President says. Begreifen ? Erfassen? Verstehen? Understand?

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        1. Bribo McBain

          Learn to spell, buddy. That’s part of composition and comprehension class. And yes, when you act in the name of something, people interpret that as “speaking” for that particular cause. You may be one small voice in the crowd, but you’re still speaking for that cause. After all, religion’s only voice is the people themselves. So yes, I do understand, or in your words: “You twisted the mans words and showed you lack of comprehension.” I believe you meant: “You twisted the man’s words and showed your lack of comprehension.”

          Now, exactly what was your argument for backing Carlos up? You probably don’t have a valid one since there isn’t a valid argument out there. Unless of course you’re going to pull out the race or religion card and start placing people in groups. That’s a typical thing for small minds to do.

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      2. Carlos Aguilar

        I think you might be the one who’s confused, I didn’t blame anything on the Jews like congressman Paul does. I defended the Jews. It’s Paul’s conspiratorial view of the Jews I disagree with and his anti-semetic writings in his newletter.

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      3. Carlos Aguilar

        Well Mr. McBain I don’t get where you think I’m being a bigot towards Israel or Israelies. I was defending Israel against people like Ron Paul, so I think your the one who’s confused. I consider myself while not being Jewish, a Zionist, being a Christian first and an American second. I think the people on this site think that calling someone a Zionist is a pejorative, I don’t. The term was created by Jews.

        For the record I also consider myself a Neo-Conservative with a dash of Libertarianism, a dash of Paleo-Conservatism, and a dash of Classic liberalism.

        I’m also for auditing the Fed. I believe that we are a Christian nation, we should send the National Guard to the border and I’m a first generation American of Mexican descent. I believe Obama is a Marxist, straight up along with many Democrats. I believe Marriage is between a man and a woman. Abortions only in the case of incest and rape.

        Finally, to everyone who reads this, go buy “The Looming Tower”, it will show you in great detail why they want to kill us and it’s not for the reasons Mr. Paul sites. Ask yourself if Israel put down all their weapons today and America pulled out of all Islamic countries, Israel would immediately be invaded. Now flip it around if the Palistinians put down their weapons along with hamas and hezbollah, there would be peace.

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    2. TruthSeeker

      Response to Carlos Aguilar. First I will not use offensive words to assassinate your character like you tried to assassinate Ron Paul’s character. There is no point of these blogs if everyone is going to enforce their views through profanity and offensive language. For the record, I am not defending Ron Paul but I will defend some of his ideas. How interesting and convenient that every time someone implicates someone who happened to be a Jew is compulsively attacked as anti-Semite! This is childish and unwarranted. This must phase out of our political dialogue or we will be captive forever to racial tantrum. I am going to outline my response without the essay style:
      1. Hamas is a threat to Israel not the US.
      2. Israel is not the US ally. This is a long lived myth that must come to an end.
      3. 911 was a false flag Mossad operation that stole Muslim identities which has been disputed by Jewish analysts and investigators. Those definitely can not be called anti-Semitic although will be called by ADL and AIPAC self-hating Jews. For more on this see Dr. Alan Sabrosky, Dr. Albert D. Pastore research on 911. I included a link to Dr. Pastore’s research in my previous comment.
      4. I am afraid that you are wrong on the fact that all who oppose the ground zero mosque are clear on the difference between mainstream Islam and radical Islam. In fact some of the big players behind this ground zero mosque hoax are known to have collective views of Islam and they know of no difference between the two like Pamela Geller known as the Queen of Muslim Bashers.
      4. There is a difference between a Jewish American and a dual citizen American who is known to have Zionist loyalty to the State of Israel. This may pass as trivial if the person is every day average citizen. By the way, it is against our immigration law to have dual citizenship. However, if the person is a key political in the US administration or our system of government, the situation can not be taken lightly. What you refer to as simply Jewish figures are top echelons in our government and they are hard core Zionists. For a partial list of such figures and their backgrounds, please see Dr. Albert Pastore link in the previous comment.
      4. I am amazed too that Ron Paul is still in Congress because our Congress has been occupied by Israel and if the American people do not wake up, then our entire nation will eventually be annexed to Israel just like the Palestinian occupied territories. Having said that, I salute all Jewish figures who are true Americans and who put their loyalty to the US first and I salute all Jewish groups that rose above the creep of racism and spoke loudly for justice like Dr. Sabrosky, Dr. Chomsky, Dr. Shahak Israel, and groups like the Natura Karta and many I can not list as there are so many of them. Loyalty to any nation can not be trusted if there exists another competing loyalty to a different nation. Conflict of interest is an old concept in philosophy, law, and even religion that has been ignored by the foreign lobby controlled government of ours. It is time that we make up our minds: either Americans or Israelis. Period.

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      1. Carlos Aguilar

        Classic anti-semitism, you’ve proved my point. You threw in the 9/11 conspiracy and Chomsky, textbook.

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        1. the Dood

          Yes! A true antisemitic. Just like Noam Chomsky, he supports a two state solution instead of the clear Semite way which is absolute support of the true Jewish state of Israel to expand into the heathen and unchosen’s lands. Israel is a democracy after all which means freedom to be Jewish and nothing else, so duh!

          Being against Isreal then means antisemite which is clearly what anyone who opposes Israel or shows any ounce of support to its enemies is. But they hide their antisemitism, veiled under the guise of “peace” and pointing out what they consider bad state policy and bad shit that democracies shouldn’t do. Why don’t they just come out and stop pretending to be rational, level-headed people and just fess up to being antisemitic?

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      2. Carlos Aguilar

        By the way I thought you Paul supporters we’re a little more thick skinned than that. What with all the disruptions you guys always cause. It’s a revolution right? Son of a bitch isn’t really that bad is it? And didn’t I come back around on the “dumb” part? I made the point he was slyly being anti-semetic. Read the guy’s newsletters back in the 80′s. This has been a common theme with this guy.

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      3. Carlos Aguilar

        Where to start, because it’s almost as if you are living in a parallel universe.

        To you point that hamas is not a threat to the U.S., remember the Iranian backed terrorist group is dead set on eliminating Israel, the “Little Satan”, so who’s the big Satan, the U.S., so once they’re done with Israel it’s on to the big Satan, America.

        Your paragraph on the Mossad was so incoherent that I don’t know if you’re blaming them for the attacks on 9/11, but that’s la la land. You’ve left the reservation if that’s what you’re suggesting.

        The main players behind the anti-mosque movement are the families of the victims like Deborah Burlingame, fire fighters, police officers, and just your average citizen like me. Remember 70% of New Yorkers are against this. New York isn’t some kabal of Islamophobes being it’s one of the most diverse cities in the country.

        As for being annexed by Israel, once again you gone off the reservation. All we do is protect the only true friend we have in that area of the world, it’s just that simple. They share our love for democracy and what’s amazing is that some people think a country that could fit in lake michigan has so much power. They are obviously a part of our foreign policy and if you want to be just strategic about it, isn’t it good for us to have an ally that has nuclear weapons in that area or where we can deploy from.

        Bottom line, if we fail to defend Israel what does that say to our other allies.

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  35. Thomas

    Thomas, unless you were a Native American then you yourself were integrated into the American society.

    Actually , I am pretty much pure Scottish and proud of it . Every place on earth has changed hands numerous times . It is not more right that muslims colonize America than for England to colonize India. The difference being that
    deomographics are on the non-white side and whites bring civilzation and development . Non-whites trend to bring their third world ways .

    Also your comment about Muslims immigrating to the west being unnatural is mind boggling, American is not a “White” country. After reading your words I am assuming you are a closet white supremacist, you know the kind that hides his/her opinion in public but is actually filled with hate.

    * yawn*, I’m sure your mind is boggled . You hate whites and the white supremacist thing is very very tired . You sound like a leftist dupe head and maybe you are a closet gay .

    Thomas, America has no room for racist bigots, this country was founded on principles far greater then you.

    * yawn again * the racist bigot thing is even more tired now that you spewed it .
    America was founded as a white European nation and there is nothing wrong with that .

    There is no room for people who hate whites as they would like to see us become a displaced minority in the nation our fore father built .
    Have you heard of David Duke ?
    You could learn much my tired racist shrieking friend . and frankly I do not really care what you think or what names you call me , because you are probably a closet gay boy . Now go shrieking some where else .

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