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  • laosuwan

    ron’s more than a little ignorant about the teachings of islam and the percentage of “radicals” out there and that their anger at the usa comes from their teachings, not what the usa does or did. but I hope he gets to become president so he can learn

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  • dailey4jesus

    I agree with Ron Paul’s assessment about the Congressional Demagoging over the Mosque at ground zero and I agree with Ron Paul’s stand on the hatred that we ALL see coming from the Middle East Islamic nations toward the US being due in big part to our Interventionist, warmongering foreign policies under the leadership of BOTH political parties. What I am still curious about and can not find anywhere is what Ron Paul knows about Islam in general. I want to know what he thinks of it as both a religion and a Socialistic Theocracy and how that would influence his foreign policy and interaction with the Islamic world if he were elected President in 2012. I have spent boatloads of time reading the Quran, reading the founding documents of the Muslim Brotherhood, who have captured the governments of Egypt and other Islamic nations that have had a “Revolution” of late and I want to know how he intends to deal with them.

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  • Eddie Bell

    While I certainly applaud Mr. Paul for saying this bold and brash statement; today on the 10th anniversary of 9/11 I am reminded of one name that has been left off the roll call of those who perished under the Twin Towers collapse. This name is not that of a person; but of a building. Not just any mere building; but a church which stood in Lower Manhattan for 85 years before the South Tower’s collapse totally decimated it. I’m referring to St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church; and ten years later they are STILL BEING STONEWALLED by the city, county & state of New York to rebuild their shrine to a saintly bishop who is better known here in the west as ‘Santa Claus’. While I do believe that Muslims have a right to build a mosque near Ground Zero; I also hold the same should go for the Orthodox as well; if not firstly.

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  • Genevieve

    I’m really getting sick of people taking 3 words or half a sentence from Dr. Paul on this topic and using it as an attack against him.

    Today I saw “I don’t believe for a minute that the, quote, religion of Islam is our enemy”, several times in reference to him supporting Sharia law and supporting Al-qaeda and terrorists. It was in reference to our Congress wasting time discussing the building of a Mosque near the WTC site when they need to be focused on our financial crises. Not to mention violation of civil and property rights. He’s right in this.

    The U.S. was supposed to be a “religious tolerant” place, where waves of people in the past have fled to escape persecution. Those of us who are multi-generational Americans had ancestors who came here between the 1600’s to 1800’s for that reason. To blame an entire religion for an extreme sector within it is ridiculous.

    I’m sick of the fact that the media is leaving out that Dr. Paul distinguishes between the radical Islamist and the religion (as should be done).

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  • Stephanie

    This is something you would never hear any other politician say. It just goes to show that the White House has never changed Paul. And when he becomes president, things will really start moving. Finally, peace for everyone.

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  • cratewasher

    This is easily the bravest, and most patriotic statement by a politician in my lifetime.

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  • Indonesia Sharia Watch

    Fools folks, why you all change your topic from radicals Islam into black white racist.

    Look mid east, you will find same skin color, same hairtype, same eyes color, but it fight and kill each others in the name of “most true translation of arab quran holy language”. After they all in one , then they will fight again in the name of “family group” and so on.

    America is one greatest nation because it implement differences. Shariah can’t implement this thing. So what happen is the fight between democracy againts shariah just like before yesterday once more democracy againts communism.

    Just prepared for one rambo action once more.

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  • BobNY

    First and foremost, Islam is NOT a religion, it is an ideology. It contains politics, economics and religion in one.
    Secondly, I do not agree with the US premise that there are moderatet and redical muslims. Only in the US is this theory pushed. In the Arab world, there are muslims and non-muslims. Non-muslims are considered infidels, which means that there are NO innocents. Only muslim men are fully treated as humans, women and non-muslims are less.

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    • YousefAbed

      Bobny,

      I have a couple thongs to discuss with you. It’s obvious reading your ignorant and I’ll informed rant that you some sort of neo-nazi/hatebreeding influences.

      Islam is a religion. Maybe you should look up what the definition of a religion is before you open your face and spout out your worthless opinion. Now that that is cleared up, I would also like to point out that politics and government can be found in most religions.

      The thing that bothered me the most was your lumping of Muslims all together and acting as if though there are no liberals or conservatives or ones who are just “Muslim” by family and not by practice or faith.

      What is this “US theory” you have formulated? So you took it upon yourself to come up with something to further push your hate breeding tactics. There are a lot of crazy Muslims just like there are a lot of crazy every other religion.

      Nice try bro. I’ll be here all weekend to make you and anyone else look stupid. Sorry pal but I’m not going to let some moron spread lies that just end up causing more issues.

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  • http://www.loganswarning.com/ Christopher Logan

    Like many of his followers Ron Paul knows little to nothing about Islam. He also seems oblivious to the fact that Muslims attacked America long before we were in the Middle East. He needs to Google the Barbary Coast Wars. Islam allows lying, rape, and slavery. It also calls for the dominance of non-Muslims. Muslims are on a worldwide movement attempting to subjugate all under a barbaric set of religious laws. It is now time to end all Muslim immigration and Mosque construction.

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    • SCOTT

      To bad we don’t believe in censorship of idiots.

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    • Joe

      Showing your true colors. You are prejudiced, blaming the entire religion of Islam as the culprit. There are examples from every religion where wars were fought for “the religion”, when in fact it was nothing more than aggressors interpretation of the religion. There is death all throughout the old and new testaments. Blaming the tripolitan war on Islam is misleading in the way that though those pirates may have been muslims and claimed their right from their religion, it was an act by individuals. Many muslim nations of the time didn’t support the pirates acts. You place your feelings and prejudice before law and logic. You support tyranny as can be seen with your complete disregard of liberty of those with the muslim faith. Furthermore, the whole premise of statement is wrong in the fact that they attacked us in their waters.

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      • FreedomRings

        What the heck is Joe talking about? RON PAUL continually states that he is against the governments ideas and wars as well as how the media portrays hatred towards Islam and Muslims in general. RON PAUL is for the constitutional rights of religious freedom according to the 1st Amendment, he’s against the fact you can’t build places of worship/prayer in some major cities because of over-regulation.

        RON PAUL 2012

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    • http://www.shopadreamholic.com J

      ummmm lol Google First Barbary War yourself…. North African Berber Muslim states most commonly known as Barbary Coast War… lol MUSLIM STATES…do your research before making uneducated comments seriously.

      I dislike people who are ignorant about facts…Ron Paul is right Terrorism Was never a problem until we got into their lands and started to tell them what to do…. During the American Revolution the British Considered many Americans TERRORISTS and their deeds would be punishable by DEATH…

      The United States of America has Terrorized and done STATE TERRORISM LIKE:

      Indonesia’s anti-Communist purges (1965–66)
      Indonesia’s occupation of East Timor (1975–1999)
      Wars in Indochina
      Atomic bombings of Japan (1945)
      Cuba (1959–present)
      Operation Mongoose
      Nicaragua (1979–90)
      READ or GOOGLE Nicaragua vs. United States

      USA LOST that case in a WORLD COURT

      and I can keep going and going and going… I don’t condone what Radicals are doing but I also do not condone TERRORISM in GENERAL… Whether the USA is behind it or Islam. Terrorism is WRONG and the United States Government should be the last organization to speak about terrorism, They done it in a MUCH LARGER SCALE… My brother is a Marine and he could get killed in an instant because some stupid politician believes we should be fighting other peoples battles and getting into other peoples business… IDC if 2 million people get blown to pieces its non of our business…we have our own Issues. If someone attacks us for NO REASON…then We should declare war and KILL them S.O.B’s but if we are invading and controlling countries that don’t want it and they retaliate we have to accept the fact they are freedom fighters in the EYES of Their PEOPLE, like American Terrorists where during the REVOLUTION.

      IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH….

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  • Shahbaz

    Ron Paul always makes sense and indeed is one of the good americans. I personally praise him for his patriotic views for US and tremendous understanding of other religions. The rest of you or most of you are educated crooks.

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    • I’m

      “Slay the unbelievers wherever you catch them.” (2:291) “Fight them, until there is no more dissent and religion is that of Allâh” (2:193) “The vilest of animals in Allâh’s sight are those who disbelieve.” (8:55)

      “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks (beheading) and smite all their fingertips off them.” (8:12) “Verily, the unbelievers are unclean.” (9:28), etc.

      How can Muslims explain these verses? Aren’t these and many similar Qur’anic teachings, responsible for Islamic violence? Most religions have had violent histories. Islam is the only religion that teaches violence in its holy book.

      WHY ?

      Taqiyyah:

      “… Practicing Muslims come to the West and pretend to be moderates. They say everything you want to hear but secretly plan for your destruction. They smile; are friendly and amiable; they even pretend to be patriotic. However, their only objective is to make Islam dominant. They talk the talk, but will not walk the walk.

      Lying is a strategy to advance Islam is called taqiyyah, or “holy deception.”

      http://quran.com/5/51

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      • David A Morse

        Islam is the only religion that teaches violence in its holy book?

        You are a stupid liar. All three Western faiths preach violence in their Holy Books.

        The Jewish faith and The Holy Bible share the scriptures with Islam. The God of all three is the same creator, so you do not know what you are talking about.

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  • TruthSeeker
  • TruthSeeker

    Hi tiludwig,

    You wrote in a previous post that:

    “The difference between the Crusaders and the Islam is that the Crusaders did follow Christian scripture. Christ never told people to fight or kill in the name of God: Mohammad did. Thus, how can you possibly compare the two? I’m not defending any particular religion, just reporting the facts. I know there are people out there that want to rewrite history–especially Muslims. That’s there forte. Distort, lie, whatever it takes to make themselves appear to be something they are not. I’m not making it up. Their Koran says so.”

    The following post I wrote previously:

    “I like your name and I try to adhere to that philosophy. As for your reference to the Koran, I know what you referring to. The verses on the Koran which urges the Muslims (believers) to fight firmly against the disbelievers (deniers of the truth) has always been a subject of misunderstanding and confusion even among Muslims themselves. My understanding is that a true Muslim is one with soft heart and compassion who is too busy in self-purification and charity work that he/she has no thought of violence against others albeit someone who is antagonist to the faith of Islam. Due to this peaceful nature of Islam, true followers develop this natural lag to physical and combat response which sometimes becomes a necessity with any group of people to protect the welfare of its society. Every nation on earth including ours understands that there could be a time when a man has to stand up in defense of his principles and nation. Muslims are no exception to this rule. When someone attacks them or threaten their security, they have the natural right to fight back. With someone who much resembles a hermit and a saint in his lifestyle too busy giving thanks to the Mighty God, he is in need to be urged not to let his peaceful nature takes over him at a time when fighting becomes a necessity. That is the right perspective to understand the Koranic verses which call the Muslims to fight the enemy. Another pillar of this subject is the question of who constitutes an “enemy.” Not everyone that does not want to believe in Islam is an enemy of Islam.

    “Allah forbids you not to treat kindly and deal justly those who have neither fought you in the matter of religion, nor driven you out of your homes. Indeed Allah loves the just.”

    Sura al-Mumtahanah 60, verse 8

    This is the main principle that governs the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims. It is unfortunate fact that those who spread the propaganda about Islam being a religion of violence expect Muslims and possibly any religious belief system adherents to turn into wimps and turn the other cheek. Even if turning the other cheek were a matter of individual modesty, it should not allow for passive response to aggression when the whole nation or society is under attack. Have there been incidents in the Islamic history where misunderstanding of this principle led to unpleasant conflict between civilization? Probably yes, but the conduct of people is not binding on the religion itself or its doctrine. In our modern times, when Muslims were colonialized by our Western expansion, attacked, and their national wealth unjustly robbed or disposed of, the aggressors spread the propaganda that fighting back was an aggressive and violent tenant of Islam itself rather than natural and justified reaction to aggression.

    All I want to say on this point is: it does not matter who we are talking about, when some one is threatened or attacked, they naturally have the right to respond and vindicate themselves of that aggression. Instead of dehumanizing the victim, we should dehumanize the victimizer. I think that is fair enough.”

    The following verse as stated above is from the Quran which commends the Muslim to be kind to those who did not fight them:

    “Allah forbids you not to treat kindly and deal justly those who have neither fought you in the matter of religion, nor driven you out of your homes. Indeed Allah loves the just.”

    Sura al-Mumtahanah 60, verse 8.

    Now consider the following is a verse from Matthew 10:34

    “32 “Whoever acknowledges me before men; I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. 34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

    a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
    a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
    36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household [Micah 7:6]
    37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”

    Consider what the Quran said about those who do not fight Muslims causing harm to them an and their religion, and consider what Christ said and make your own conclusion. To me it is obvious that Muslims could not be accused of violence while Christians could not be said to have a peaceful religion unless we give more reasonable interpretation to both.

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    • tlludwig

      Truth Seeker,

      Thank you for your response.

      Oh boy! I’m going to have to review what you wrote and think it over. I’m not about to get into debate with you without being prepared.

      My demeanor here with you is completely sincere. I’m not being a smart ass. I’m clarifying this with you upfront since you cannot see my facial expressions, or hear my tone of voice. I don’t want any misunderstandings between us; I am not interested in making an enemy.

      I will get back to you as soon as time permits.

      In the meantime, here are a couple links to some music videos that I came across during research. The artist is one of my favorites. WARNING: what you are about to hear and see isn’t the message you get on main stream media!!!


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpYegSmJO2w

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  • tlludwig

    Here are my first statements. I am not ready to give my official position on the matter because I am still collecting information. That is why it took me so long to respond, truth seeker. I don’t know everything there is to know and I’m not going to pretend like I do. I also am not one to make conclusions based solely on emotion; I like to work with objective facts.

    So far, I believe that I have narrowed down one piece of information and I think it is fair and objective; as far as 9-11 is concerned I believe that the major players that were probably part of the attacks (either directly or indirectly or by admission or omission) include any of the following (all or a few): Al Qaeda, Mossad (Israeli Intelligence), The Saudi Royal Family, The US Federal Government and perhaps media outlets (both foreign and domestic).

    I don’t think anyone here on this board or even in the whole world can deny: there are just too many discrepancies with regard to how 9-11 played out to ignore (unless of course you believe that ignorance is bliss). This is includes events before and after the attacks.

    The final thing I want to say about 9-11 that really gets into my crawl is: I’ve noticed quite often that people who question what happened on 9-11 (or think that the official story is BS) are often ridiculed and mocked. I’ve read plenty of blogs to know this to be the case.

    I guess that somehow or another, some people think that other people should not inquire about the events surrounding 9-11; that they should just ignore their own perceptions (both intuitive and sensory); or doubt what the government has told them. And if they do question or hypothesize then that means that they are either “crazy”, “delusional”, “paranoid”, “irrational”, “stupid” etc. This is crazy making behavior in itself.

    I have every right to ask questions without being negatively labeled. Moreover, I have the right to think for myself and not have someone else tell me what or how to perceive something. That doesn’t mean that can’t challenge my belief system or point something out. For example: I watched building 7 fall and to tell you the truth, it looked like a professional demolition job. It did not look like it fell “due to heat or fires”. It fell uniformly. I used my OWN perception (my eyes, my brain) to come to that conclusion—someone did not have to convince me to think that and it wasn’t “just a feeling”.

    Should I ignore my OWN perception so that I can avoid being labeled crazy or stupid? Or it goes something like this: “oh come on now, you know you didn’t really see it like that did you?!” I think there are technical names for these types of behaviors: “gas lighting” and “psychological warfare”.

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    • TruthSeeker

      Hi tiludwig,

      Allow me first to salute you for your courage and independent observation, not because you are coming to the same conclusion as I do. I care less if you believe otherwise as long as your observation and logic is sound. The main thing is the process of thinking to me. As a math teacher, I never pay attention to the final answer. It could be the wrong answer, but what matters is the sequence of logical steps and its progression which makes you a good mathematician. A magician that can give you the answer is not a good mathematician because he presents no logic in reaching the answer although the answer is correct. This is all I am asking for my friend. I want us the American people to stand tall and proud and think for themselves instead of running after the mainstream media which has lied…lied…and lied. Even Dan Rather admitted that there was some thing wrong in reporting and he apologized. Dan used to be one of my favorites. Journalism which I consider the forth branch of our government should be totally separate from the other three branches of our government, apparently not. We the people not them the people should report in the media and tell the facts. I do not need a congressman to tell me what he thinks happened on 911. We should be spending our time talking to the witnesses who were there at the scene. How in hell it became possible that 911 evidence is classified and that only the two or three who led the investigation committee were allowed to examine such evidence? When are we going to wake up and challenge this rotting system of secrecy and executive immunity? What kind of immunity a thief wants? Trust! What kind of immunity a serial killer wants? That he is a dove! What kind of immunity a prostitute wants? That she is still a virgin!

      I have to agree with you that many parties were involved in 911 but even if anyone from Al-Qaida was involved was because of Pakistani puppets were involved who always acted under the supervision of the CIA. Check out the global research site http://www.globalresearch.ca/ on 911 and how the Pakistani orchestrated the smoking gun, but under whose supervision and orchestration?

      It is time my friend that we tell these criminal thugs and bastards that the people is America and we are watching, that we are in charge, that this is our nation, that they killed our citizen and bring them to justice. They are the ones with their satanic places of worship (Masonic temples and Skeleton Bones Clubs) that should go away and never come too close to ground zero. How convenient when they expect us to believe that the fox is the guardian of the chicken coop? If there were any goodness in those bastards who took public service as a competition for glory and career benefits, they would have not sold us out to the private banking industry of the Federal Reserve System. As we speak we are close to 14 trillion dollars in national debt with an annual interest accruing on the debt at about 400 billion dollars! Where this money has to come from? From you, me, and the minimum wage little guy who struggles to make it, and now he is even unemployed! Enough is enough to hype us into elite wars that killed our young troops, and made the banking criminal network of elite whom are we finding out now that they were behind the massive foreclosures and the destruction of the notes. We have no one to rely upon besides the Mighty God for those who believe in one, and ourselves. We need to stop following. We need to start thinking for ourselves and take the lead for our nation…our children…our future. We owe it to ourselves to do that. Thanks again tiludwig for your courage and search for the truth.

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  • TruthSeeker

    OK Mark,

    Just explain to me how I am bringing this all crap in when you were the one who started the Anti-Semitic argument. Did I call you anti-Semitic? Or were you who did? So I am merely responding to that argument. Your are right about the figure of dead in WWII, but I was talking about both WWI & WWII. By the way and a side note for your information, in both wars, ARABS and many Muslim nations were on the side of the allies, did you know that? Sure some African and Arab merchants as well as many others were engaged in the slavery trade of African slaves, but who did most of the heavy lifting in the slavery business? Was not it the Europeans of Spaniard, Dutch, Portuguese, and Anglo-Saxon in general? We are drifting away from our topic a little bit, but that is much better than exchanging curses and stupid names, is not it Mark?

    As for “the Kennedy’s were against the US joining the war as they were exporting arms and other items to Germany.” No I did not know that, and thanks for the information. Would I believe that? Probably so because many political and financial elite around the world find it convenient and profitable to their clan interest to play it both ways. If the Rothschild did it, then why not also the Kennedys? That is not too out of line to believe. I like though to have some narrative source so that when I argue the facts, they are facts not just hearsay. Thanks again for the information.

    As for the rest of the stuff, I am going to be nicer to you this time and ignore it. At least I leaned something this time from you and I appreciate that—gratitude.

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    • mark

      TruthSeeker, You brought up the Israelis and implicated them and the Mossad in 9/11 attacks many many post ago. You have also made many disparaging remarks about them in past post. I guess you just don’t remember. Palistine was under control of the British at that time as was Egypt and other parts of North Africa. So it stands to reason that they would be on the side of the Allies. So that would explain why Jews migrated or escaped to there. At the same time Iraq was on the Germans side. I don’t know if it was their choice or if they had some Treaty which obligated them to side with Germany.

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      • TruthSeeker

        Mark,

        We are making some progress here bro. Let’s just agree on some more civil terminology. Instead of describing someone’s opinion or statement as a “remark” or “inflammatory” or as any subjective value to it, let’s just state it as it is: simply opinion, view, or allegation. How does that sound? I will be back in a while to respond to your last post. Like I said I am not too big not to seek knowledge. I am here to learn, so be my guest if you have something to teach me. So I will get back to you in a little while. I must go for now.

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      • TruthSeeker

        Hi Mark,

        Finally I have a moment, so let’s follow up on the last conversation we had. You said that most or some Arab countries were on the side of the allies because they were under the British mandate. Let’s test the facts and reason of that statement.

        First, the author of the Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire was Sheriff Hussein who was the patrimonial founder of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordon. The man was a pure Arab Bedouin of Saudi origin. Saudi Arabia which was not called that name then, was called Arab peninsula was NOT under the British mandate. In fact if you re-call Lawrance of Arabia was sent by the Buckingham royals to motivate the revolt against the Turks. Lawrence instead fell in love with the Bedouin culture and protested the whole mission when he came back to the Buckingham. The British mandate in fact operated to the opposite result, as the case was with Iraq which was involved in the Anglo-Iraqi war. Iraqis hated the guts of the Brits that they stood against the allies instead of the other way as you reasoned. The fact that Britain was hated for its colonialization of the Arab countries at the time backfired at the allies in some instances instead of working for the allies. Is that reasonable? Sure it is. I am more of an enemy to my enemy’s friend. That psychology and logic is most likely the case when observing the human behavior.

        As for me posting allegations that Israel was behind 911, you are right. That is my whole case pretty much. I presented my info which was not my own work for debate. Albert Pastore did all the work and I think his presentation beats the hell out of every reason no matter how biased one could be. I am still challenging my readers to refute Pastore’s thesis. I am willing to listen to solid arguments but not hubly bubbly teenage dude talk. I never heard from you or anyone on this blog that was able to refute any of his evidence. So let’s put our emotions aside for a minutes and stop exchanging insults and accusations. Let’s deal with it as some academic project or term paper that we will be graded on according to objectivity and reason. The work done by Pastore is about 75 pages, but it is worth every bit of it to go through it.

        I am just curious about you Mark. We are both Americans, but you seem to hold Israel in special place in your heart that amuses me. Any specific reasons for that? If you do not want to talk about that, that’s fine with me, but I am just carious to know, especially that you told me you were Agnostic. I know most Christian Evangelists have their religious slant on the subject, but knowing who you are now makes me wonder. Anyway, if you are not willing to debate Albert Pastore, that’s fine too, but I think we all should proud ourselves of being Americans in our intellectual liberty and love for justice and truth. We may continue to believe in our ways, but that does not mean slandering the belief of others. According to our values, we are NOT a mainstream culture; we are rather a variety of so many backgrounds that have come to accept that we are one nation in the face of danger. I do not doubt your love for America, and I expect you to do the same for me.

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    • Joe H

      Truthseeker,
      Actually there is still white slavery going on in quite a few of the muslim countries, also in Japan! Check it out!

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      • TruthSeeker

        Joe H.

        So is there a great deal of homosexuality, incest, and many other moral flaws everywhere I guess. What is your point? What are you trying to say?

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  • mark

    TruthSeaker Your little ploy to change the common meaning of Anti-Semite does not wash it is well known the term is used in reference to those who hate Jews. If you were intelligent as you claim you would know that. Otherwise your just acting childish. As for letting me have the last word. How is that possible if you keep responding. By the way I am neither Jewish or a Zionist. I am in fact Agnostic and have studied several different religions, which include: Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Daoism and Shintusim.
    The only pu**y here is you. Your are the one afraid of the world and people in it. I took an oath to uphold the Constitution and protect this Nation from any and all enemies from foreign and domestic. I will honor my oath till the day I die. As you have shown in your post you have no honor and would understand the meaning even if you read the definition.

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    • TruthSeeker

      Mark the lie,

      Every time I present a counter-argument to you, it is like a little ploy to you. You took the oath to protect the Constitution, but you are only protecting the “cons institution” I suppose the Constitutions teaches tolerance, not bigotry. It teaches that people have a fundamental right to property, freedom of speech and association, although you seem to interpret that only as it serves your own interest without regard to your opponent. You believe in justice, but only when it means “just us.” Look in the mirror Mark and you will see that you are mere reflection of what you accuse people of doing. You have been so conceded and trapped into your own little world that you see the world a singular point. Now your way to deal with that is to pour your tantrum at your opponents just like a child who can not get his way, yet you call others children! As long as you bother and persist to answer my posts, I will let you have it. Good luck to you and hope to see you roast in Hell. I will let you have another round of profanity.

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    • mark

      TruthSeeker. You prove my point every time you post. You are still delusional.
      SJ123 has your number too, You immaturity is amazing, you sound like a 12 year old. You don,t even pay attention. I’m Agnostic and telling me to go to hell or roast in hell is a waist of time. It also show just how immature you really are.

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      • TruthSeeker

        Mark,

        You still have not debated one single issue I posted. Your style of Kill the messenger if you want to kill the message will not get you anywhere. Apparently you are verbally and mentally abusive individual who likes to go off on people when he has no point. This will make you the child and the delusional one. It is not what I say and what you say; it is what the readers of this blog will say as you continue to evade the issues. Once again address the issue if you have any substance instead of referencing other bloggers. SJ123 can talk for himself and regardless of what he thinks; you should learn how to think for yourself. Maybe this is your chance to point out to you that you have so much to learn before you engage in debates. Better than that yet is to learn how to treat others decently instead of sticking it to them. I know what anti-Semitic means, and I know how the ill term has been used and abused, and I know who gave that meaning to it, but I was questioning your ABC ignorance of things which falls for everything. Anti-Semitic is a very bigot term which makes Jews even more of a target for bigotry. It is the Zionist stupidity that made most people against them because they made themselves the only victim of injustice. Maybe 6 millions died in the Holocaust, but how many were killed in WWI & WWII alone? About 80 millions! How many natives were killed in the Americas? Close to 20 million! How many Blacks disappeared from Africa during the slave trade time? About 50 millions! Yes we have so many Holocausts that make the Nazis one look the smallest, so how come we never talk about other Holocausts? You see this knowledge you may or may not find it in books Mark, but you have to be intelligent enough to ask the question at least. Have you? I feel sorry for the little Jews who were crushed by the Nazis, but their fellow prominent Jews like the Rothschild were the ones who financed Hitler to kill them while at the same time financed us to go to war. Do you know that Mark? Look no more in regular history books, because they will never teach you that! You need to grow up and take lead of your destiny Mark instead of letting your true enemies lead you to Hell; yes that kind of Hell I am talking about. You better call the Rothschild anti-Semitic pal. You seem like you have no brain of your own, but if you are willing to experiment, you will find out that you deserve something better. Go read a book, even better than reading, analyze it and critique it after you read it.

        Calling people delusional and childish is attacking their person, not attacking the issues they present. Apparently as basic as that is, you never learned that. When someone presents an issue, you respond first to that issue. You do not start going ballistic and mad that you have nothing else to say. So say I am childish and delusional; what are you when you continue to be verbally abusive and you have nothing to say but attack the person instead of the idea? I hope that you will take just one of my points seriously and learn from it.

        As for roasting in Hell; you are NOW because you put yourself in there. Do not worry too much THEN because you will see it in time not because you are Agnostic or Hindu or anything, but simply because you are a denier of the truth. Yu see something before your eyes, and swear you never seen it before. That will roast you in Hell. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant if you one. We are all ignorant of something or another, but when we have a chance to grow out of our ignorance and we continue to defend it, then we deserve to b called ignorant for life.

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        • mark

          I’m 1/8 Sioux Indian for your information. The number of people killed in WWII was about 56 million the majority were Chinese and Russian killed by Germany and Japan. You bring up all this other crap because you have no legs to stand on. I haven’t evaded any issue, that’s your cup of tea. As for blacks in Africa slave trading was common practice for hundreds of years. The blacks sold there own people to Dutch traders, who intern exported them to the rest of the world. did you know the Kennedy’s were against the US joining the war as they were exporting arms and other items to Germany. The only ignorant person on this blog is you. One more thing SJ123 did speak for himself but you obviously were not paying attention if you actually read his post. I’m sure you are so busy fuming and trying to think of what you are going to post next you don’t comprehend anything posted. Have a nice day.

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  • TruthSeeker

    Sorry SJ123, but you and Mark have not read anything I posted either. I posted not only the former wrestler show on the conspiracy theory, but a whole work done by Albert Pastore. Have you looked at it? It is really worth your time if you are serious about knowing the truth. I would also suggest to you to look at Alan Sabrosky’s work. Just google both of them and you will see.

    As for equating the questions about 911 with “is the sky purple? Can cows fly? That tells me you are hopeless like Mark. I never asked those questions and I never came close to asking such. Again, are trying to be unusually cute? Anyway, I did not attempt to pretend that I was an architect like you with an expert opinion, nor your opinion would have meant anything to a jury trail. I only posed a question that deserved to be answered. Listen to yourself duplicating the mainstream media when you said it took you five minutes to formulate an answer! 911 was a case that deserved all expert testimony from all schools of thought. How come we have no expert testimony on the subject besides carefully selected panel of “experts?” What’s up with about 1300 experts who said otherwise and were never allowed a chance to testify to the investigation committee? How about the experts who found Thermite residue in the dust? Where did the Thermite come from? Bin Laden flew the airplanes into the building, and Bin Laden also had access to the building to paint the beams with Thermite liquid? What about Building 7 that was not hit by any airplanes yet falling at free fall speed? That I would equate with if the sky looks purple example of yours! C’mon man! You see how much you pay attention to what others have to say? Apparently it is you who have been waiting for his turn to talk without listening to anything that has been said about 911. Look, I am not here trying to win people like you over because I know that would be more difficult than turning a huge solid rock into whip cream. What I am trying to accomplish is another version of the debate that the readers of this blog are entitled to consider. I did not start the ground zero hoax and since it is the Cordoba Community case, I will leave it to them to decide what they want to do about the building as long as they are protected under our laws. In fact, I would argue that since the issue is of a legal nature, let the courts decide it. Neither one of us have a saying on that. This is what I call respect for the laws if you consider yourself a good law-abiding citizen. What I care about is that the whole hoax of the ground zero story was based on nothing but a story that was completely flawed and a great number of our citizens do not believe in nor they ever believed in. The argument that Cordoba Community should be more sensitive to the feelings of 911 victims is full of venom because what it does is indirectly confirms and repeats the old lie—that Muslims did 911 and furthermore outrageously all Muslims including our citizens owe folks like you an apology! I find this to be more than just a cause for satire, but totally outrageous. It is like saying; since the sky is purple (to use some of your words) then the sun looks blue! Both the premise and the conclusion are false which gives FALSE value to the whole statement even when we assume that the premise was FALSE as long as the conclusion was also FALSE! You may want to consult an article on P implies Q logic and how that works. But to make it simpler, you can not just reach whatever conclusion you want to make using a false premise. So let’s prove first that Muslims did 911, or alternatively make your conclusion regardless. That should work as well. There was not a single shred of evidence found at the 911 that links Bin Laden to 911 besides a theory since you are against conspiracy theory. Was Bin Laden a good suspect? The answer is YES 100%. Is that enough to conclude his guilt? NO. What we see here is someone on the other hand that was too eager to go to war under all circumstances. The plan to invade Iraq was set long time ago before 911. Again, I want you to do your own research on those points I am making unless you just want to wait on your turn to talk, something I am sure you are against. You have to remember I do not have to prove I am right. I only have to shed the doubt on the 911 official story. The ones who advocate 911 being caused by Muslims have to prove their case. If you disagree with this principle, then you are not an American. According to our judicial system, the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

    Everything else you mentioned in your response is trivial and irrelevant including your 5 minutes architect analysis which I find ridiculous as well, but that is my opinion and I am not an expert either. Just address my concerns please. It is not enough to be witty and a good talker to present the truth. It takes a great deal of integrity and intelligence to discern the truth. Thank you and it does not really matter who wins this debate. It is about the truth that everyone’s needs to know as a matter of right. I am sure the Cordoba Community will decide regardless of your or my take on the whole thing. I personally will leave it up to them and respect what our legal judges have to say about that. That I call American—respect for the law.

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  • SJ123

    MARK and TRUTHSEEKER:
    Mark, I truly appreciate your dedication, but seriously, you must have better ways to spend your time. With that said, at least you’re sane and rational, and I appreciate your dedication. Politically, I lean to the left. I stumbled across this site after watching Rand’s acceptance speech on CNN (I know TruthSeeker, I’m brainwashing myself) and have to admit that I really like what Ron Paul has to say, especially in concern to foreign policy. I also want to qualify this by saying I’ve only read MOST of the posts on this last page.

    And I have to ask, is this a joke? I don’t know if TruthSeeker is trying to be ironic or doing a satire on political hypocrisy, but seriously, you’re kidding right? You ramble on about Mark’s ignorance to fact, don’t seem to have actually read anything he’s written. It’s like watching politicians preach about bipartisanship, hilarious but sad. And the best part, your “facts” are provided by a TV show about conspiracy THEORIES hosted by a former wrestler. I don’t understand how Ventura feeding on a mother’s enduring grief or the recollections of a maintenance worker with no real knowledge of architecture or physics provide facts?

    Granted, they do present some questions. Examples of other questions include: Is the sky purple? Do cows fly? When in conversation, do I listen to the other person and respond, or simply wait to speak? That last one’s for you TruthSeeker. My point, people can ask any question they like, that’s what makes rational thought great. But a grieving mother asks questions like this because she can’t accept that her daughter is gone, and a maintenance man does because he doesn’t understand what he experienced.

    But let’s entertain Maintenance Man’s question. I would think that when a large plane hits a building full-speed, it might cause that building to tilt, even if slightly, and more than just the wind would cause. The building has supports that run from the top to something like 20 stories beneath the ground. When the top tilts, it causes the bottom to move correspondingly. If you need a visual aid, place any box on the ground and tilt it slightly. You’ll notice that one side LIFTS off the ground. And then the ridiculously massive building resettles, maybe 7 seconds later, and BOOM again.

    This possible explanation took me about 5 minutes to formulate, but does provide an alternate answer to your “Bush did it” response. I am not, and have never been, a Bush supporter in any way, shape, or form. I voted against him twice because of his views, actions, and rhetoric, especially in regard to waging war in the Middle East. But do I think he murdered over 3,000 US citizens, perpetuated a cover-up among all but the most fringe/extremist media outlets here and abroad, and used it all to go to war in Iraq? Unequivocally no.

    And Mark, I guess now I understand. Thanks for the distraction, this beats the hell out of staring at Wolf Blitzer and percentage figures. And TruthSeeker, if this is just a joke, you got me!

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    • TruthSeeker

      SJ123,

      Did I read everything Mark posted? I do not know if I read everything, but every response I made to a particular post he presented, I read it thoroughly. Mark’s main theme on this subject is not much different from all others who stand against the ground zero mosque. He is against it. His rationale is that even if the law stands by the Cordoba Community, nevertheless, they should not go ahead and build the community center because so doing would be insensitive to the 911 victims and their family. This approach poses trouble for me not because I am against Marks proposition that a decent individual should be sensitive to how others feel around him. I was raised by a very conservative family. Respect is more important than principle. I had to fight my way in life to assert my rights against the rather exaggerated concept of respect. So by way of upbringing, I support Mark’s proposition. That is not the problem. The problem is rather in the notion that Muslims did 911 and therefore, Muslims owe the world an apology and must watch out to the point were they should be very apologetic even as to give up their civil rights! That to me is unacceptable. This is in particular so due to the fact that if Muslims did not do it, then there is nothing to be apologetic about and hence there is nothing to compromise and give up. Even if we assume for the sake of argument that some Muslim groups, a terrorist one did 911, that does not implicate the Cordoba Center in the guilt, nor does it justify alienating the US Muslim citizen population as we heard the most bizarre arguments that US Muslims are to be counted on Saudi Arabia and Iran. Since some Islamic nations does not tolerate the building of churches on their land; therefore, the Cordoba Community should not have the right to build their center! This is outrageous for the simple fact that the Cordoba Community is not part of those nations; instead, it is part of our American society. I am not saying that Mark advanced all those arguments, but the trouble began when we demanded proof that Muslims did 911. Is that too much to ask for? Why are you guys selling this case as if it is not subject to any debate? Why do you want others to take it as given without further challenge? Apparently your views of the holiness and sacredness of the government—that the government could never do wrong is disputed by many people including the former wrestler you seem to mock. It was not just Jesse Ventura who disputed the official story. All you have to do is google “911 truth” and you will see tons of return info on the subject. Truth is a combination of decent information (facts) and sound logic. There is no substitute for that. You seem to want to block even investigations into the most controversial case in our history. Over 30% of our citizen population does not believe in the official story of 911. Does that mean anything to you? A man can not be convicted in our court of law if one third of the jury is acquitting him (hung jury.) The burden of proof is on the government to prove its case, not the Cordoba Community to prove its innocence. This is what I know American is. So could you tell me why I am such unreasonable person and I deserve all the adjectives you stuck to my forehead? Please do not respond if you are going to continue evading the points I am raising by calling me names, adjectives, and labels. We are done from this debate unless you practice what you preach—necessity to listen to the other side. I care less if you all in all continue to disagree with the outcome. All it matters to me is that you acknowledge that unlike what you think, we have some valid argument. At the end we just respect each other for searching the truth, rather than blocking out the civil debate.

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  • TruthSeeker

    mark the lies,

    Congratulations for your astounding victory! Now you can go on your Sabbath and rest.

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    • mark

      TruthSeeker By the way, why do you hate the Israelis so much you sure sound like an Anti-Semite could it be you are Muslim or are you just a better than everybody else kinda guy? Oh, and have nice day.

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      • TruthSeeker

        Here you go again Mark the lie,

        Anti-Semite ?

        If you are anti-Arabs, then you are anti-Semite because Arabs are Semites.
        If you are anti-Muslims, then you are anti-Semite because the majority of Muslims are either Semites or followers of Abraham—the patrimonial ancestor of Semites.
        If you are anti-Africans, then you are anti-Semite because some Africans; North African, West Africans, and East Africans are either pure Semites or highly mixed Semites.

        Israel? That’s your love and passion Zionist and it really shows. I suspect that you are a Zionist Jew, or just plain hillbilly Evangelist who is sold on the virtues of Israel. Loser!

        You really want to find out who I am? I will meet you face to face and show you what kind of pu**y you are. You think I buy what you said that you served in our troops? And even if you did, you did not serve our nation. You served your gods of oil dynasty.

        So I guess I am missing the point. Why do you continue to respond to my posts after I let you have the final word? You have done that twice. If you forgot, scroll back and see. This shows you have no grace either! By the way, I am not mad. I am enjoying every bit of it because this way the readers of this blog get to know your kind for real.

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  • TruthSeeker

    Mark,

    I was not the one who published the 911 official story. You ask me for my proof that AlQaida did NOT do it? That is a very twisted logic. This is like me asking you to prove that you are NOT a homosexual! Your logic is twisted my friend. If I say that you are a homosexual, then I must come up with evidence against you and I am required hence to prove that you are. Here, it was the media in the early hours of 911 that decided the case before anyone knew what actually happened! How convenient and how motivated! How in hell someone in the early hours knew that Bin Laden was behind it? How in hell someone knew that the building came down due to structural failure? How could you conclude such a huge event like that with simplicity and ease? Do you see where my problem is?

    As for me believing in conspiracy theory, you are right except that I do not like what others call it as a “theory” to give the impression that what they say is “facts,” but what I believe in is “theory.” Look, I am too intelligent to fall for crap like that. The government came up with the official story which is the same story the mainstream media told us in the early hours. Any little town rape case could have taken months and possibly years to find the perpetrator, try him, and bring him to justice. The most serious event on our soil did not. What do you make out of that?

    I am going to make you watch what Governor Jesse Ventura presented. Luckily Mr. Ventura is not a senile who lives in the woods with saliva dropping down. He is part of our government which we are questioning. I am also attaching a link to the early hour report of the mainstream media on 911. Play it back and decide for yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOWWIDT910I

    http://www.infowars.com/building-7-implosion-the-smoking-gun-of-911/

    http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/176.html

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    • mark

      TruthSeeker, the fact is the media was speculating about who committed these acts on the very first day. It was very to pick Al-Qaeda for the simple reason that they had already been responsible for bombings of American installations around the world. All the big media had their experts on security and terrorism coming to the same conclusion that Al-Qaeda was the only ones capable of committing this. The Government had been intercepting information that something was going to happen. The CIA, FBI and NSA along with some minor intelligent agency all had pieces of the puzzle. Due to there inherent arrogance they did not share information with each other. If they had they might have prevented this attack. The term structural failure is a term used when there is any collapse of a structure in a catastrophic event such as in fire or earthquake etc.. The difference between solving a small town rape case and this, is simply manpower. When you have unlimited resources it makes things a lot easier. You also have a limited number (smaller than the people in a little town) people to look at and you have all their names and can easily investigate. It’s hard to investigate a crime with just a description of the criminal. Again as I have said before if the main stream media had any proof that the Bush Administration was behind this they would have crucified him. They absolutely hate him and all conservatives. I’m sure they wish what you are saying were true.

      It is interesting how otherwise intelligent people are predisposed to conspiracy theories when they line up with their anti-establishment biases. It really does little good to counter these arguments with facts. We are firmly in the realm of emotional predisposition here. Inconvenient facts are to be bent or discarded while convenient ones are to be amplified. It really is quite interesting psychologically speaking. The theories themselves are obviously less intellectually challenging, but this window into irrational belief is intriguing. The most interesting thing about it is that these people think that they are thinking. They admire their own enlightenment and that buttresses their stubbornness. There is no fact so blatantly obvious that it cannot be quickly and easily discarded once they have invested so much of their emotional selves into this system of beliefs.In short, there is no point arguing with the true believers. The only value in countering them is to protect the weak-minded from their influence.

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      • TruthSeeker

        Mark,

        You conclude your comment with: “In short, there is no point arguing with the true believers.” If I am interpreting you right, you are saying that there is no point in posting your views on this forum; no point in the civil debate which should be educational in the sense that it forces you to think and consider your blind spots, not merely to enforce your settled views on others. I am telling you, I am a truth seeker, I need to know the truth, but your presentation has come too short of presenting one single evidence that Al-Qaida did it. You said, based on their history of other bombings, they must be the culprit. “All the big media had their experts on security and terrorism coming to the same conclusion that Al-Qaeda was the only ones capable of committing this.’ So what if they had a history of bombing us? Does that in itself establish the guilt of Al-Qaida in the 911 case? This is not how our legal system works. Under the menace of terrorism which is becoming no more than a war against a shadow, we lost our ways as Americans. We pride ourselves of being the leaders of the free world, but we are being reduced to less than many tyrant nations around the world. We went to Iraq without a speck of evidence that Iraq had WMD. After we destroyed the civilian life over there, we admitted publicly that there was NO WMD; nevertheless, we told all the intelligent folks who warned us that we did not have a case against Iraq: Screw you, we did it anyway! Bush said it out loud, “nevertheless, it was a good thing to do.” meaning taking Saddam down. The war which followed 911 was the real motive behind 911, it seems too obvious. Bin Laden has been dead since December 2001, but we are still fighting the shadows in the caves of Tora Bora and we still release videos of him threatening us! The price? The life of our young troops, and more money wasted which is needed right here at home to bail out our dead economy. Now tell me by God, who is the beneficiary of that war? I could tell you that it is not me or you. How convenient to send someone else to fight for us while we are posting gold ribbon stickers on our cars’ bumpers: SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! Like Ritter put it: “support the troops my A**.” How convenient to spend our tax money on infinite aimless wars without discrete goal in sight, while millions of our citizens can no longer afford their mortgage payment; others unemployed waiting on the list for benefits! All these questions to you are conspiracy theory. C’mon man and after all, the Truth Seeker is a well-known liar that others should not debate with. He is a conspiracy theorist. How daring Mark!

        I must second you for saying “In short, there is no point arguing with the true believers.” It seems to me that after all these links that I submitted to you so that you could at least consider and respect, you continue to attack your opponents through character assassination and mere propaganda, yet claiming that your opponents are the propagandists! By God if you believe in one, is that fair?

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    • mark

      What I’m saying is there is no point in talking with you about it because you can’t see the forest for all the trees. You are hopeless and delusional. You have tunnel vision and would believe any facts presented because you are truly delusional!

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      • TruthSeeker

        So if that is what you think of me Mark, why your lie dripping mouth continues to mention me? I am hopeless and delusional, that is settled, then why do not you keep that to yourself and talk for yourself? Why do you have to gossip about me like a resentful widow? Be a man and act like one. One thing I do not like about blogs is that allows cowards like you to say whatever they like to say from a distance without fear! If you want to be a man say what you want to say about someone in their faces, not hiding like a little wimp and running your dirty mouth without liability! I know who you are too and I know your type. I have seen enough of you cowards to pick on the minorities and disfranchised. It does not surprise me a bit that you are now anti-Arabs, anti-Muslims, and anti-anything that you could victimize. This is not a sign of power. It is only a sign of weakness and the way of the wimps. Sorry pal.

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    • mark

      TruthSeeker You are so full of it. You fired the first volley. You accused of being racist along with several other things. You are the only coward on this post and you have nerve to use the moniker Truthseeker. You hide behind that because you think it makes you noble. Your name calling shows you as a coward, it also shows me you are just another liberal who can’t argue against the truth. I volunteered for my country while you hid. You have no validity. I use my name when I post while you hide. I love my country whereas you hate it. So if you are an American, why don’t you just pack your bag and get the hell out!

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      • TruthSeeker

        Yes your name is mark the lies. Straight to Hell you SOB! Next time talk for yourself and stop being a pu**y. I hope you learned something from this ugly expeience; the least is not to run your bad mouth, because you asked for it and you got it. Now you can have the last word because you are too low; I will not even spit on you!

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        • mark

          TruthSeeker, I have never met a liberal as easy to get under their skin as you. The only person being ugly is you. It is quite apparent that like other liberals you can’t handle any any opposition to you singular view. The more enrage you become the less credible you become. You can’t handle anyone pointing out the flaws in view point. You can call me all the names you want, it just makes me laugh. It just highlights the kind of person you are and lets everyone in on the truth.

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        • http://www.ronpaul.com TruthProclaimer

          TruthSeeker sounds like a muslims from this post.
          Anti-Semitism only applys to Jews.
          anti-Semitism n: hostility toward Jews as a religious or social minority — anti-Semitic adj. (The Merriam-Webster Dictionary, p49, 1997)

          Verse for you Mark:
          Proverbs 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.

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  • TruthSeeker

    Mark,

    Are you acting as an advisor to others on this forum? Is that your version of Freedom of Speech that you are trying to defend?

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    • mark

      TruthSeeker, What a hypocrite, you have offered a multitude of advice in your post. I can offer my opinion just as you have offered yours. It seems you think as do most liberals, only your use of Freedom of Speech is valid. Freedom of Speech is exactly that, the freedom to voice your opinion regardless of what you have to say. You are the Biggest bigot I have encountered on any post. Your view is the only that counts and you refuse to accept that people disagree with you view.

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      • TruthSeeker

        Sure Mark, I offered plenty of advice about the subject matter, NOT about other people on this forum. Freedom of Speech does not mean you smear people out and attack their persons. You can attack my views, but you have constantly attacked my person. So did you when you continually attacked a whole group of minority in our nation. You smeared them out as evil doers for trying to exercise their constitutional right and their civil rights under the municipality code to build their own community center thinking that you and your group represent the axis of this universe around which everyone else must revolve. Shame on you man advising tiludwig that I am such a hopeless evil that he should not have a dialogue with! That says a lot more about who you are than what your views are. We could always make mistakes on what we think and what we believe in. What I believe in today might not be there tomorrow, but I must maintain my personal integrity at all times, so do you. Unfortunately, you just told that you have none.

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        • Mark

          See there you go again. At no time have I maligned any minority on this forum, yet you accused me of doing such. You tell people they don’t have the right to discuss this topic of 9/11 on this forum. You have neither the right nor the authority to make a comment like that. You need to go back and read the crap you have written with an objective eye instead of patting yourself on back and admiring your words. As for proof about 9/11, the only proof you have comes from other conspiracy theorist. That is not proof. There is on the other hand a mountain of proof that it was done by Islamic terrorist, including an omission of having done it by Al-Qaeda.

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  • TruthSeeker

    Hi tiludwig,

    I love you man! I love all humble people who are willing to put the truth above their false ego including myself. This is the start of a good journey. I fully agree with you: where is the civil debate in this country? Where is it?

    You can say anything you want my friend about anyone you wish, but here is my problem. I never allow myself to be naive enough to be exploited, not would I ever allow the truth to serve the ends of falsehood, nor would I ever allow goodness to serve the ends of evil. This debate about the ground zero mosque is one of those scenarios. Whoever was the SOB who brought it to daylight at this time was nothing but pure evil. I believe in civil confrontation and that is the only way to cope with our differences; religious, racial, political. That’s my definition of liberty and tolerance. We need this debate, but at this time? I do not think so. Motive to me is just as important as action itself. You know what is the problem with our nation tiludwig? We are a bunch of hypocrites and I do hate hypocrites. I would rather deal with Satan than deal with a hypocrite. Why is that so? Because I know how to deal with Satan, but I never figured out how to deal with a hypocrite.

    Let me ask you this question and let it be the start of our civil debate: Why this subject is brought up NOW? Who was behind it? Lets first debate this point and hopefully it could be an informative and instructive experience.

    I look forward to continue the debate or the educational experience with you. Sorry if I insulted you by my sarcasm. It is just my way to deal with a shock when I experience one. I found your information and your reasoning to be shocking, so I dealt with it with sarcasm.

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  • http://endtheecb.ning.com Jake

    Tonight Mike is going to talk about how we the people are killing ourselves… what the effects of division are. He´s going to dispel all the plagiarism and contending theories — disprove all of them. Then in the third show, he´s going to round all this out into a firm understanding of solution. So, there will be three programs, the set of which are the whole picture — a complete prescription for how to do the revolution.

    http://www.tnsradio.ning.com at 3 PM to 6 PM Pacific Time

    Warm regards,

    Friends of MPE

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