Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots: Stop Your Demagogy About The NYC Mosque!




Congressman Ron Paul today released the following statement on the controversy concerning the construction of an Islamic Center and Mosque in New York City:

Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

It has been said, “Nero fiddled while Rome burned.” Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are “fiddling while the economy burns.”

The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”

Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom?

In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.

They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems.

The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.

Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?

If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.

Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam–the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty.

The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservatives’ aggressive wars.

The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam.

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.

Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.

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910 Comments:

  1. ron, i vote d sometimes and r sometimes. i would love to debate you on the environment someday.

    You speak truth, and you stand on principle. You are the most inspirational leader out there. I have so much respect for what you do I find myself defending you to conservatives and democrats alike.

    Keep on keeping on Ron, the world REALLY needs you right now.

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  2. Why should we build a Mosque? Everyone knows Aqua Buddha is the greatest God.

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  3. It was posted previously that Catholic nuns and priests were killed by American Nativists in the 1800s because of the perceived "threat" of the Catholic church.

    While traveling to Bamberg last year to visit my son, an American soldier, I took time to visit Nuremberg and the Nazi parade grounds/Congress hall. I wanted to know just HOW an entire nation, or a majority, could turn on their fellow man and participate in marginalizing and slaughtering entire groups of people. The Nazis systematically D & D'd the Jews, along with intellectuals (professors), homosexuals, liberals, gypsies and others, before they stripped them of their rights and finally imprisoning and killing them. It happened in stages.

    I see this ideologically-driven rhetoric about Muslims as just another step in a series of steps that can lead to the same kind of fearful and hateful responses in Germany, such as the burning of synagogues on Kristallnacht. All in the name of "protecting freedom"... the constitution right now protects all of our citizens from such harm, but for how long? I hear a knock on the gate to our freedom and it isn't from the Muslims, its from within. Ironically, its exactly what the terrorists wanted to begin with. Lest we forget history, I'll remind us what another ideologically over-invested leader said about the jews:

    “We were also those who, for the first time, made major efforts to explain to the people a danger that had crept up on us, and which millions ...of people did not recognize, even though it threatened to ruin us all: the danger of the Jews.” . Adolph Hitler

    I refuse to live in fear in my own country. I owe it to myself, my loved ones and my country to push back on this rhetoric that is intended to lay claim to some higher good; refusing rights to those judged 'unworthy' simply because of their religion is unAmerican and I will not tolerate it. Those who wish to speak freely about their disdain for their fellow citizens are free to do so; its a right protected by the Constitution. But fellow citizens have an equal right to exercise their right to dismiss it. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from ridicule.

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  4. I thought the Speaker was calling for an investigation into those who oppose the mosque. Otherwise, demagogues at their best is truly the best way to describe this madness.

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  5. HeartlandLiberal

    Wow. Just wow. I am NOT a fan of Mr. Paul or Libertarians, and I abhor their attacks on social security and Medicare and other frameworks of the social contract that I consider necessary, while being wholeheartedly in agreement on the insanity of the wars we have launched without justification, and to a great extent just to reward corporations with war profiteering lucre.

    But this statement by Mr. Paul is absolutely one of the clearest, most cogently stated analysis of the insane, xenophobic, racist, neo-con, right wing disinformation campaign centered on the mosque I have seen, anywhere, on progressive or conservative, left or right wing sources.

    It goes straight to the heart of the matter, and clearly and incisively delineates the utter, vapid, hypocrisy of the arguments against the mosque.

    This statement profoundly changes my attitude towards Mr. Paul, in a positive way.

    All of you reading this, I would suggest you followup this statement with a reading of Martin Luther Kings' "Letter from Birmingham Jail". There are lots of parallels, and lots of opportunity for understanding history here.

    http://www.mlkonline.net/jail.html

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  6. Irish Catholic churches and convents were burned, and priests attacked in the 1800s--by Nativist Americans who were "protecting" America against these newly arrived "agents of the Pope."

    Now Catholics are leading the charge against the Muslim minority whom they are accusing of being "agents of radical Islam."

    In the 1940s, the American government put Japanese and Japanese-American citizens (some of whom had never seen Japan) into concentration camps to "protect" America.

    Mr. Santayana, call for you.

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    • Ryan the perfectionist

      You are nuts! Who are the Muslim invaders? I don't recall our country being invaded by Muslims. Actually, if I recall, quite the opposite has happened.

      Muslims, like various other people here in US are here to enjoy the freedoms established by the great founders of this nation. Look at is this way, it's sucks to be Muslim here because a-holes like you are always giving us a hard time. Still, we love this country and we are here to stay.

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  8. Congressman, I don't often agree with a lot of what you say, but this is truly an excellent piece.

    I would make one correction though. I believe that Speaker Pelosi doesn't want to investigate the source of funding for the Park51 project (truth is, they have very little money); but she wants to look at where the money for this incredibly organized opposition is coming from.

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  9. George Carlin on Social hysteria

    "Well, I think if you looked at the record of laws which have been passed in the last 30 to 40 years - there's a thing called social hysteria. Social hysteria is whipped up, generally, by the media. Crime - in Nixon's time, crime was the big social hysteria issue. There's too much crime. They're coddling, the courts are coddling the criminals. We have to have tougher laws."

    Read and watch the rest of it

    http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/video/498.html

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  10. fred the protectionist

    Cordoba, Spain was the furthest western colony of Islamic imperialism. While the Muslim barbarian armies did conquer as far north as the Pyrenees mountains until being turned back by Charles Martel and his Frankish armies, the Muslim Barbarians did hold onto Cordoba for hundreds of years before being pushed back across the straights of Gibralter.

    So, Cordoba is a name of a province (or town) of the furthest WESTERN Islamic colonies.

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      • Referring to Ron Paul as a liberal? That's a first. Nobody is defending terrorist property rights. You incorrectly assume that the people behind the community center are terrorists. They are not, despite the oppositions best McCarthy-esque smear tactics efforts to try to draw any kind of connection.

        The whole premise behind opposition to the mosque is that Muslims are collectively guilty for 9/11. As Americans, we should reject that notion.

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      • This is a ludicrous comment in many ways, some of which have been pointed out already. Here's another: "I guess he doesn’t want to jeopardize any of his Saudi campaign funding so like everyone else in our federal government he’s a good little lap dog.“

        Wait, what? Didn't you just read Dr. Paul telling us (again) that the 15 of the true 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi and that the good U. S. of A. continues to ally with it?

        Like everyone else in our federal government? He just soundly rejected all the juvenile squabbling that has been done by these everyone elses.

        People like you, who capitalize upon key words and code phrases like "terrorism," "the American way," "freedom," "fighting for our liberties," to draw upon base emotions, are part of a problem of masking the voices of reason.

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    • Ryan the perfectionist

      The Muslim "barbarians" of Cordoba also made numerous advancements in astrology, medicine, economics, agriculture and business. We need more "barbarians" like that in this world 😉

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      • fred the protectionist

        More Liberal propaganda, oops I mean Libertarian.

        See, they hate whites, christians, males, straights, etc. They wish to knock down Christianity and prop up Islam.

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        • Ryan the perfectionist

          Why does Christianity have to be "knocked down" to Islam can be propped up? You are such a defeatist. Christianity is awesome. I think it can easily co-exist w/ Islam just fine. What are you so afraid of?

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        • fred the protectionist

          I'm not afraid, you Liberals are.

          'You people' have to constantly knock down Christianity, and you ally yourself with those who are antithetical to Anarchists/Libertarians. Apparently you see Christianity of a threat, so you must destroy it.

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  11. Jason wrote:
    "I am quite sure that those burned at the stake by the church or the entire villages of "savages" lined up and given the option of converting or losing their lives would argue with your white-washed version of events."

    Individual abuses can always be cited. That is why I cited the actual teaching of the two faiths, not individual events. Note: an institution can only be blamed for atrocities when it teaches such things as part of its doctrine, eg. "Smite the infidel on the neck." We've seen a bit of that recently haven't we?
    By the way, the Church is forbidden to execute anyone. The executions during the Inquisition were carried out by the State. Individuals actually asked to go to the Inquisitors in the Church, because they were known to be lenient and compassionate compared to State Inquisitors. Learn some history for a change and turn off the anti-Christian disinformation on the history channel.
    Jason continued:
    "Nonetheless, the hostility between islam and christianity is directly tied to Abraham and the "birth right of the first born." This is clearly stated in your very own bible if u had ever read it u would know this."

    This is nonsense born of complete ignorance of both Scripture and history. You are referring to two children that fathered by Abraham: two groups of semites in the middle east: Isaac and Ishmael. This has nothing to do with the Gentiles.
    It also has nothing to do with the "first born." The first born is in reference to Jacob and Esau––both Jews and sons of Isaac.
    The hostility of Islam has fundamentally been against the Jews, the sons of Ishmael against those of Isaac .
    You're obviously as ignorant of the Scriptures as you are of history.
    But open your eyes---everywhere in the world you find conflict between Islam and other religions. Just look at their attacks on the Hindu faith--where do you find the first born in that? A few years ago I noted there were 15 major conflicts in the world; 14 of them involved Muslims fighting some other group--none were related to the "first born." Muslims have a real problem living in peace with their neighbors from Trenton, N.J. to Tibet. Whenever they can live in peace few are happier about it than I. So cut the "hate Muslims" nonsense---don't lower yourself to argue like a liberal by slander and ad hominem attack. Stay with the argument.

    But all this is beside the point. There are no Southern Baptist Suicide bombers. But there are Muslim Suicide bombers---in Dallas a Muslim recently was arrested for trying to detonate a bomb in downtown Dallas--fortunately he bought it from the FBI.

    Someone else tried to bring up the absurdity of moral equivalency between Christians and what has shown itself throughout history to be Muslim Imperialist conquest and aggression. While this is simply absurd, it is a red herring. Christianity is not the enemy of liberty, but its bulwark. What we face is Islamo-fascism and ignoring it, or trying to pretend it's just another religion among religions is something we do to our peril.
    As my old high school principal used to say, "A word to the wise should be sufficient."

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    • ok William, I have no interest in further derailing this thread my arguing with with someone who--like most religious zealots--paints history your own way. There's always an excuse for u and yours, but everyone else is just ignorant. History hates u, you were the persecuted ones, u got the short end of the stick, they r just out to get u.... its a tired old story that christianity paints and its falling on deaf ears.

      Next u r going to tell me the millions of abused catholic children r all liars right. Screw off man your pathetic "my history my right" routine doesn't work here.

      Your lack of knowledge about history and the bible are to your own disadvantage, not mine. Unfortunately there are many here who may not know the truth, those r the ones who end up being brainwashed by your lies.

      Any religion whose charge is to concuer the world for the only "true" god is a danger both to society and humanity as a whole and both christianity and islam fall into that category.

      Like I said earlier, the cause of liberty and constitutional government is not helped by fascism hatred and bigotry

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    • Actually, if there ar Southern Baptists fightin in Iraq, then they are killing innocents too!

      9/11=Iraq War=murder

      ....and if you read enough history, you would learn that both Islam and Christianity have periods of imperialism and peace. It is a society of political secularism (not philisophical secularism) that has protected liberty. Freedom reigns supreme when Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, and any others can live together, practice their own beleifs, and respect each other.

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  12. Ok william, point taken...u r going to think what u want. Your view is one of "victim victim victim" and that is just childish nonsense. History is history and your pastor or priest is feeding u a line of bs but whatever.

    The reality of this fight for liberty lies not in an argument for or against a mosque, but in the fact that 9/11 took place under a rogue government. If 9/11 had not taken place then this argument would never be an issue and that is the porpose for all of us fighting the cause of liberty and constitutional government, so that we never again have to argue about who is hurting the most or has the right to worship or where exactly they can exercize that right.

    If the cause of this group of Americans succeeds then never again will rogue wars be fought around the world by our government at the expense of so many. Never again will people have to decide to vote for security of our nation in the face of a false flag operation or give up personal freedoms or write blank checks to war generals....that is what we r here fighting for and hatred has no part in that fight.

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  13. william ridenour

    The difference between the Conversion of Christian nations and Muslim Nations:
    The Catholic Leaders sent missionaries
    The Muslim leaders sent armies
    As Casey Stengel used to say, "If you don't believe it, you can look it up."

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    • William,

      I am quite sure that those burned at the stake by the church or the entire villages of "savages" lined up and given the option of converting or losing their lives would argue with your white-washed version of events.

      Nonetheless, the hostility between islam and christianity is directly tied to Abraham and the "birth right of the first born." This is clearly stated in your very own bible if u had ever read it u would know this.

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      • Yea Yea Yea Yea - we all believe that there are 80,000 Iraqi soldiers stationed in Washington, Nebraska, Iowa, Connecticut and we have the 130,000 Afghan Army stationed over there in California, Arizona, Nevada etc... bla bla bla.

        And we send them missionary and they got killed in Afghanistan. How sad.

        william ridenour - Twisting fact aren't ya?

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  14. william ridenour

    Jason wrote:
    "These two religions have been fighting since Abraham. Let’s not forget that Christianity has tried it’s best to remove Islam from the face of the earth and likewise Islam has done it’s best to remove Christianity and Judaism."

    Jason, thank you for your review of biblical and historical realities--but I'm quite familiar with them, thank you.
    Your reading of history does not comport with reality. Consider that for three hundred years after the birth of the Christian faith Christians were viciously persecuted by various groups, including the Roman government. The tide was turned with Constantine received a vision that helped bring about the end of persecution of Christians.
    By contrast, immediately after the birth of Islam Mohammed himself lead violent attacks on cities and established Islam at the point of a sword.
    Following his example Islam spread westward across Africa and into Spain, invading both pagan and Christian lands. For four hundred years Christians in Europe fought defensive wars to prevent being overrun by militant Islam.
    The Crusades in the Holy Land were responsive acts, for Muslim militants had shut off routes into Jerusalem and attacked Christians on pilgrimage to
    Christian holy sites. The first crusades were raised to re-take the holy land overrun by Islam and to protect Christians on pilgrimage.
    To my knowledge Christians never attacked Islamic countries to establish the Catholic faith, but the last 1500 years is characterized by one invasion after another of Muslims into Christian Europe, the last ones being as recent as the 17 and 18 centuries.
    Christian doctrine has consistently affirmed the reality of human freedom--"where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty."
    Islam, on the other hand, is fatalistic and recognizes only one will: that of Allah, which must be submitted to by any necessary means.
    If you don't believe this as historical realities just look at the freedom of societies in Christian lands and those in Muslim societies today. Christian societies are characterized by tolerance and people are appealed to on the basis of debate and reason. No such reality exists in Muslim lands, where opposing views are viciously driven out and those who oppose Islam are executed.
    Things ain't changed a lot in 1500 years.
    You're both philosophically and historically way off base. You've been watching too many mocumentaries spreading disinformation on the History channel.
    Check it out for yourself with this time line, where you see the first five hundred years of Islam is characterized by violent Muslim invasions of the middle east and its spread to the west---no such corollary exists with the Christian faith.
    http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/imperialism/notes/islamchron.html
    If you want to attack Christians go ahead, but please don't claim there is a moral equivalency between Christian history and Islam. It's absurd.

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    • fred the protectionist

      Jason wrote:
      “These two religions have been fighting since Abraham. Let’s not forget that Christianity has tried it’s best to remove Islam from the face of the earth and likewise Islam has done it’s best to remove Christianity and Judaism.”

      Actually Islam didn't exist to "fight Abraham" when Abraham (assuming Abraham is a real person) was alive. Jason is an idiot.

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      • Fred,

        I appreciate your attempt at logic here but the Bible is clear that the decendants of Ishmael--Abrahams son from whom Islam takes its lineage--fought the descendants of Isaac. Whether or not the actual "religion" of Islam was yet formed, these families have fought since that time. Read Genesis my friend. You all r too funny.

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        • fred the protectionist

          That's nice. It still doesn't change the fact that Abraham supposedly lived about 3,700 years ago, and Islam is only 1,400 years old. Unless Mohamed had a time machine there's no way Islam would have been fighting Judaism for 3,700 years.

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        • Whoa dude pull up your bootstraps and try to pay attention! Holy cow! Ok one more time here's the scoop.....

          Abraham had two sons.... Abrahams god made a promise to the first born.....Abraham didn't like the first one so he sent him away. Those two sons grew up hating each other and all of their descendants did as well....thousands of years later they r still fighting, but now they are organized into two groups called Islam and judaism..from Judaism comes Christianity and WHAMMMO!

          Are u still with me???

          This is why the two groups r fighting over temple mount and gaza strip...because they have been fighting over this area for thousands of years. The group who controls temple mount has gods blessing. This is so pre-school history class and u guys call yourselves christians...do u even know who the hell u r believing in???

          One of the reasons Islamist extremists dislike America is because we have taken Israels side and this has an eternal significance to Jews, Muslims and Christians...well except the ones who have no idea what they are following and or believe.

          You all are too flippin funny for words. Thanks for the evening laughs.

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        • fred the protectionist

          Wrong.

          There is no way an entire ethnic group, A-Rabs, could possibly trace all their lineage back to one person thousands of years before.

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    • You left out too many details to make that comparison accurate. During the time of Muhammad, the muslims defended themselves agianst the Quraysh, a tribe that mercilessly persecuted them. After Islam took hold in Arabia, it entered its golden are when art, literature, science, tolerance, and peace were presesnt until the end of the 11th century (where people of all faiths enjoyed peace and prosperity by the protection of laws)....all of this ocurred while Christian Europe was a cestpool of depravity. After the Crusades, Muslim lands suffered infighting and corrupt politics. Freedom was crushed over Imperialistic ideals. Meanwhile, Europe began its Renaissance, in which freedom and enlightenment took off. Equality gained poularity, science was no longer hindered by the church, and laws viewed people as equals (in theory anyway), creating better times for Europeans. It is tolerance, equality, and political secularism that has made societies rise and when those values are abandoned, they fall.

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      • fred the protectionist

        Golden age? Wrong, Islam turned North Africa and the middle east into the dark ages. Guess you haven't noticed, but most historical Islamic mosques in the middle east are converted Christian churches, with gaudy muslim ornaments thrown on top of them.

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  15. william ridenour

    As a final addendum to my last post I want to say I am convinced of and committed to the Libertarian vision--but I am equally convinced that strict Libertarian orthodoxy is incapable of effectively confronting or compromising with an historically tyrannical and hegemonic, militant social and religious force like Islam.
    Of all American phenomena, Islam is the most fundamentally hostile and opposed to the ideals and principles of Libertarianism. They would rejoice at its destruction.
    Those who refuse to see this truth remind me of a cartoon spoof I once read many years ago. It was called "Amish in Space". Essentially, it was about a bearded Amish farmer, sitting in a space ship in his rocking chair quoting Amish bromides, platitudes and maxims one after another, all the while being totally oblivious to scores of strange aliens who had broken into the ship and were stripping it of everything that made it function and taking everything of value.
    That image has never left me and seeing the rise of militant Islam in the last quarter century I understand why.
    I realize America is not altogether innocent. Many of you believe if we just cease and desist with our foreign policy that American/Muslim hostilities will also cease.
    I only wish to God in Heaven the issue were so simple. I wish I could live in that simple a world.
    One can only maintain that position by refusing to see the historical aggressiveness of Islam and that it is once again on the move.
    Today, many European countries are in danger by militant Islam--many of these countries have suffered great violence at the hands of Muslims--yet, these countries were not guilty of our ridiculous foreign policy.
    They were only guilty of not being Muslim.
    In Europe the attacks continue daily. A Swedish friend tells me that in several major cities in Sweden there are now large Muslim sections, growing by leaps and bounds. These sections are violent and unsafe for Swedes. Even the police will not enter and their streets are littered with burned out police cars.
    When did Sweden have the kind of foreign policy and the number of occupations of the American Monstrosity we commonly call the federal government?
    Never. Sweden is only guilty of not being Muslim.
    If our hostilities and humiliating occupations cease as they should, do we really believe that all will be peaceful--do we think we'll be treated by Islam as exceptions to their actions in Europe?
    If so, I've got some ocean front property I'd like to sell you just a little west of Ft. Worth.

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    • William,

      Please tell me you are not seriously saying that Islam has a militant and aggressive history and Christianity does not!

      These two religions have been fighting since Abraham. Let's not forget that Christianity has tried it's best to remove Islam from the face of the earth and likewise Islam has done it's best to remove Christianity and Judaism. To understand this you have to understand the story of Abraham, and since your post makes comments that would lead one to presume that you are of the Christian sort, I cannot believe that you do not understand this.

      Abraham had two sons, one from his wife Sarai and one from Sarai's servant. Judaism and Christianity deny that the servant's son was legitimate, and Islam claims that Isaac was not the first born.

      The hostility comes from the fact that whoever is right stands to claim the inheritance of the "promised land". The whole thing is ignorant, but it has caused the death of millions for some 4K years.

      At the base of today's issue is the fact that most of the western world, especially the US has taken Israel's side against Islam.

      Now, we could discuss just the issues around the claims of both Christianity and Islam for days because the issue is such a mess and the claims on both sides are based purely on "faith" and who is entitled to "god's blessing". But I am more interested in discussing your claim--from a christian standpoint--that Islam is militant and has a history of bloodshed.

      Christianity has just as long a history of bloodshed and fight against thought, science and freedom as Islam, starting with the Hebrew invasion of Canaan and the murder of millions of men, women and children. It also has a well documented history of abuses to women both in the past and present.

      Your anger towards Islam then is like the kettle calling the teapot black. To say it plainly, you shouldn't throw stones from a house of glass.

      Islam is not responsible for 9/11 any more than Christianity is. The 19 SAUDI's which boarded the planes were extremists sought out and hired by our own government because they were an easy target to use for their purpose which was widespread hatred and anger against Islam in general creating an atmosphere of emotional outrage fostered by images and news reels pointing the finger. By this very means, the US government was given a blank check to invade every country they saw fit and do whatever they wanted as long as they were killing Islam.

      I don't personally agree with Islam or Christianity. In my opinion--and I am not alone--they both foster an atmosphere of hatred, bigotry, war and abuse towards mankind.

      You are not alone in your feelings, millions of Americans were drawn into this facade of lies and deceit, but it does not have to continue this way. We can purpose ourselves to education and learning to break away from the emotional rollercoaster fed to us by mass media and learning to think critically trading truth for hysteria.

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    • "Islam is the most fundamentally hostile and opposed to the ideals and principles of Libertarianism."

      Didn't Islam turned a pimp like Malcolm-X in to a LEADER? When Malcolm-X visited Muslim people in the Middle-East, Didn't he changed from being a hateful separatist, to a community lover.

      Get your damn fact right before you spit out nonsense all over this site.

      RON PAUL - 2012

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  16. When I hear people like Scott Brown, Y and Steve Head and others speak about 9/11, they try so hard to sound like they belong here, like they truly believe in the constitution, in freedom, in bipartisanship, in humanity but as you read their comments their true ideology comes to light. They have hearts full of hatred and anger. They only care about freedom when it comes to themselves, not others and are willing to throw out the bill of rights, the constitution and turn the Statue of Liberty into just another well dressed whore as long as their anger is satisfied.

    The sad thing is they are even ignorant as to who to truly be angry at. I'm sure when the Bush's contacted the Bin Laden's and the Afghan Security Forces General through their CIA contact it was not hard to find 19 people who would give their lives to the cause proposed by their religious leader at the beckon of G. W. Bush, but believe me, if it were not for the millions promised for their lives 9/11 would have been a no go.

    You hate monger types are always the same, thick on dry-wall short on studs--a few chicken nuggets short of a full value meal--if you get my drift.

    Try lowering your voice and picking up a book or two before you commit intellectual suicide. :)

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    • I'm sorry Jason, but you make no sense here. First of all, Scott and I are on opposite sides of this controversy, though we respect each other's opinions. how are you lumping us all together into this one big pool? Try to write more clearly and explain your position next time.

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      • Ok Y, I see that I was wrong to include you, I apologize for that.

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        • Well, I didn't mean that Scott and others who disagree with me are haters or anything. I believe them when they say they are sincere about their views and stuff. I think it's better for a discussion for everyone to be calm. Even if you are right, it's not good manners to deride others and stuff like in your comment. Anyway, just a simple lesson, no disrespect intended.

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      • Y,

        My point was that pretending you don't have hatred and anger is impossible no matter how hard you try. Scott's hatred for Islam is evident no matter how hard he tries to mask it. His focus is against Islam and he is so dead set on it that it permeates everything he posts.

        Like you said, anger gets us nowhere, and we would be much better off directing our anger towards educating ourselves, seeking out the truth of the matter rather than spewing anger and hatred, committing intellectual suicide.

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  17. william ridenour

    I've been reading these posts and can't believe how people don't get it.
    You'll never make any headway if you insist upon misrepresenting the arguments of those you oppose.
    Please hear this. For those protesting the proposed Mosque:
    *This is not about first amendment rights or property rights.
    If it's about first amendment rights how about the first amendment rights of people to protest what they perceive as the abusive, inappropriate actions of others.
    * It is not about the of the tyranny of the majority.
    In a time when activist FEDERAL judges abuse judicial power and have repeatedly swept away the will of literally millions of Americans with the flourish of a pen, siding with special interests whose memberships are microscopic, what we have most to fear in this time is the tyranny of the minority, for minorities are using our system and activist Federal judges to fundamentally change America, suppress traditional American values and establish draconian systems (like Sharia law) that have nothing but contempt for American Liberty.
    Abusive Federal judicial power has been used now for decades by minority groups who game our system, supported by the $$ of the ACLU and similar such groups, to intimidate small communities, coerce local school systems and community organizations, and essentially destroy the rights and liberties of millions of Americans abiding in our small towns, suppressing their freedom of cultural and religious expression and treading down THEIR first amendment rights.
    The cultural and social expressions of entire communities are ruthlessly suppressed by Federal tyranny, supporting as it does the ridiculous protests of a few who say they take offense at the culture or community into which they moved.
    I fail to find any right not to be offended in the Bill of Rights, but Federal judges seem to see it every where for these Jacobin-minded minorities--but no such rights exist for Americans with traditional values, especially if they are Christians!
    *The proposed Mosque is not a local zoning issue. 9/11 happened IN New York, but it happened TO the whole nation and has deeply affected all of us. It is foolish to expect Americans to sit in silence, swallow their feelings yet another time and kowtow to those who are gaming our system to bring our system down.
    *It is also not about politicians seizing yet another issue for political opportunism.
    I find it offensive to give into the knee-jerk assumption that if a politician weighs in he or she has no sincerely held position, but is just being politically opportunistic.
    *********************************************************************
    Frankly, this whole discussion seems to be focused ONLY on us. But what of the religion of those who want to build the Mosque?
    Historically, it is impossible not to see that Islam, from its very beginning, is hegemonic, violent and militant, consistently spreading its doctrine with the sword.
    Historically, it is impossible not to see that where ever Islam achieves hegemony a violent suppression of other views and religions immediately follows.
    Symbols for Islam are very significant.
    Therefore, the erection of Mosques or the stripping of the edifices of other religions (like the Hagia Sophia) to turn them into Mosques, especially on sites of conquest, are common place for Islam throughout history and represent the triumph of Islam over the infidels.
    Upon looking at the practices of Islam in the present I am convinced nothing of substance has changed in the religion. The only change has been methods, which they adapt to the circumstances.
    If you remain unconvinced just fly into Saudia Arabia with a Bible or wearing Christian symbols and see what happens. Go there and share the Gospel and you are in danger of imprisonment or even execution. Catholic priests are not allowed there, and if one ever got in and brought about conversion of some Muslims they would be publicly executed.
    These draconian laws and the hostility towards other religions and philosophies are not being driven by extremist groups hiding in mountain caves, but by a nation we fool ourselves into believing to be an ally.

    If we foolishly and naively believe advocates of Islam to be fundamentally like us and continue to allow them to game our liberties to incrementally establish Sharia law, essentially setting up a system within our system that excuses such horrors as stoning and honor killings and torturous punishments as religiously and culturally justified, don't be surprised when we wake up one day and find they never were like us, they never respected our liberties for one second, but simply used them against us to eventually force and intimidate us into becoming like them.

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    • and so your proposed solution is that we burn korans, and execute muslims in the USA because that's what the Saudi's would do to Christians?

      And this makes us better how?

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  18. Excellent article from Ron Paul. The man is a true patriot and upholder of the constitution.

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  19. Dear y,

    Thanks for the comment. I was in no way offended by your point of view and respect it, as I am grateful you've respected mine. As a failed Catholic with Muslim family members, blood relatives, I am also grateful that you recognize that not all muslims hold the twisted values of the hijackers. However, not everyone has your sensibility and not everyone is able to discern good people from bad people. I fear the backlash from this mosque will be enormous. Those of you in the Liberty movement outside of the NYC area just don't seem to understand the insult that this mosque represents. We don't feel that these people are 'good muslims' -even many in our muslim community are mortified by this proposal. They can't speak because they have family back in their ancestral homelands who would suffer retribution. Consider this y, if these are such good muslims and they live in the NYC area, and know the feelings of the massive majority of us on this, why would they build it here and name it of all things 'Cordoba House?' No one questions property rights or religious rights. Maybe an ignorant few, but those of us who do are not Sunshine Patriots. We do so because we know the impending heart break it will cause to have our loved one's grave marked with a victory flag of the people who murdered them. Good intentions? I doubt it. The imam and his group have done more to kill muslim/infidel relations than anyone. This is not racism. It is just what it looks like when the majority is offended by a perfectly legal, yet wholly disrespectful act of provocation.

    I love Dr. Paul and have, on many occasions sprung from my seat to defend his character. I still would do the same. Just not this time. He sees the Constitution beautifully, but misses the point of the argument when he assumes we are not patriots or that we're racists. This post has single handedly crippled my efforts to get people to organize for the C4L in Northern NJ. It's insensitivity to what will offend us and then ascribing the motives to racism was a double insult no one who survived the attacks, like my brother who married a muslim and has two muslim children, will get over any time soon. The real act of racism brought down those two towers and the surrounding buildings (for several blocks) and killed thousands of people. But remember, for all those killed, there were thousands more crushed. Sadly, my hero missed the human aspect while so vigorously damning the neocons on this one.

    Again, thanks for your comments. They were greatly appreciated.

    All my best,
    Scott Brown
    Dover, NJ

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    • This controversy by the media is nothing but to bring hatred towards Muslim and continuation of these immoral war and make the Army contractor fill their packet full of useless fed-res dollars.

      I wounder why wasn't there a big issue about churches in our community who committed crime against children but yet we still have those churches ding donging on Sunday and requesting more of our children to be molested by the priest in the chapel of god.

      I agree how cowardly and innocently the 9/11 murdered people On the AA and in the twin tower. But could you imagine how coward is it to commit crime against children - I mean children anywhere from the age of 5-15. How coward?, How despicable?, How abusive?.

      So just because the media didn't made a big fuss about it and the Fascist politician didn't intervene, then these children cases should be forgotten and let the children suffer for the rest of their teen, adult life?

      Give me a break!

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  20. Ha ha ha ha, totally gutless.

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