911 responses to “Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots: Stop Your Demagogy About The NYC Mosque!”

  1. rewinn

    All those who voted earlier this month to block health care for 9/11 first responders - which includes most of the Republicans in Congress - should just STFU about "hallowed ground".

    You want to honor our dead? Take care of the survivors. Otherwise you're just vultures tearing at America's flesh.

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  2. LW

    Dr. Paul,

    That you for having the courage to stand up for the rights of Americans on this issue.

    Thank you for giving sane Americans a voice.

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  3. Nate Smith

    Never been here before Paul put his foot in his mouth on this one.Now I see how he does it.If the comment is offensive to Prince Paul he covers it up as low readership ,how quaint .cherry picker!

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  4. Common Sense

    I agree with RP about 80% of the time, but he is wrong about this. The mosque at Ground Zero is a slap in the face to America, especially those who have loved ones who died there. Basically a Victory Monument. Check out the history of the imam connected with this, and his past utterances.

    Shame on you, RP

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    1. radii

      er, muslims and jews died too in the attack ... andBush and Co. knew it was coming - specifically planes into buildings - and did nothing, didn't even have on anti-terror meeting which Cheney headed but Cheney did have 5 secret meetings with Enron and other energy companies to game the energy markets

      you are being manipulated and should be ashamed at how gullible you are

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  5. Nate Smith

    This is why Ron Paul is unpromotable .He does not get it . Its a 911 Victory Cordoba Spain 784 Mosque to rub our noses in the death of 3,000 mostly Americans .He just cost his son the only chance for his election .Fool!

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  6. william ridenour

    Mark Trance wrote:
    "Whanker, zealot fanatic hater freaks. Go crawl back under your medieval stone. you mistake the ongoing argument to maintain the constitutional foundation of seperation of church and state as an attack on christianity. Get a grip on reality. You have been mind raped and it has made you a rabid, frothing, reactionary animal. More willing to snap and bite thanto consider and reason. Unfortunately you are not alone.."

    Personally, I think "Trance" is the perfect name for you, Mark, for you are apparently in that state of unreality characteristic of a true ideologue. You indignantly accuse us of bigotry who have done nothing more than point out the history of Islam, it's cruel and draconian legal system (Sharia), its consistent hegemonic and imperialist behavior, its past and present ruthless suppression of competing ideologies and religions wherever it gains the upper hand: ALL of which is empirically and historically verifiable using completely unbiased sources-- for pointing out those facts we get the brilliant counter argument that we are "zealot, hater freaks and rabid, frothing, reactionary animals." You say we're "more willing to snap and bite than consider reason."
    Even though it never occurred to me to begin a post with, "Wanker, zealot, fanatic hater freaks!"...
    But I guess that's not "snapping."
    Your post is beneath contempt, not to mention, just plain juvenile. But I'm going to set all that aside and excuse it as the foolishness of youth---or, if you're old, just someone who was unable to get over the 60s.
    So, I'm going to try to make a respectful reply.

    So, Mark, just for the record I'd be happy to consider reason, IF I ONLY GOT SOME AS A RESPONSE! But you'll forgive me if I'm not impressed by ad hominem attacks.
    For the record, (you can search my posts on this), I never brought up Christianity except in defense of the faith when those apparently ignorant of history tried to claim that Christianity and Islam share an equivalent history of violence. Balderdash!
    For the record, I'm not the least interested in comparing Christianity and Islam, though I'm a Catholic Christian--a convert since 1982.
    For the record I'm not interesting in the Constitutional issues that seem to me utterly beside the point in this whole kettle of Red Herrings.
    I'm actually not interested in making any claims or assertions.
    I am interested in us assessing our situation realistically and doing what must to be done to protect and preserve a society of Liberty.
    So, I'm posing a question that has been heavily on my mind for some time now. I'll pose it to you and anyone else who cares to read this, and in restating it, hopefully it will be clearer and will garner something more in response than a thumb one way or another.

    Can a Liberty based society hope to continue to exist when groups of people within that society who hold philosophies and embrace ideologies that hate Liberty and despise individual freedom are allowed to do all they can, with no checks or restraints whatsoever, to use the systems and institutions of liberty to destroy liberty and gain power?

    Put another way, I ask, is there anything in the Libertarian philosophy that can be used to protect and preserve Liberty from enemies from within? Or does the Libertarian have to look to principles outside of itself to preserve its own existence and protect those who live freely within its philosophic and ideological parameters?

    You speak of reason, Mark. Okay, get started formulating a cogent answer to these questions, smart guy and see what you can do with reason to tame this "rabid, frothing, reactionary animal."
    For at this point, I fear American Liberty is in grave danger and those who embrace a strict and slavish libertarian ideology have no means whatsoever of effectively dealing with those here in America who despise everything lovers of liberty stand for and who are determined to destroy us by any and every means.
    See if you can assuage my fears and concerns, smart guy.

    Personally, I'm not sure a strict Libertarian philosophy or ideology has the means to preserve or protect itself, but can be easily gamed and destroyed. Every "ism" has a defect or weakness, perhaps the greatest weakness of Libertarianism is that it has no ideological means of defense, for it naively assumes everyone will appreciate and desire Liberty.

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  7. Neil

    I applaud Congressman Paul for upholding the principles of our Constitution in the face of a mob uprising that seeks to betray it. Thank you, sir, for speaking out so eloquently on this shameful display of Americans at their worst.

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  8. jim

    Well spoken, Mr Paul.

    I have always wondered why we did not break diplomatic relations with Saudi-Arabia the day after 9/11. Or at least put them on notice.
    That would've made a lot more sense than the collective blame some 1.6 billion muslims worldwide are now suffering.

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  9. Phranqlin

    I disagree with Rep. Paul on many issues, but fully support him on this one. Freedom of religion is one of the bedrock values that the United States was built upon. Americans may practice any religion or none, and our country and our society are the stronger for it.

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    1. fred the protectionist

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      1. Samih

        You know whats funny Fred? I see you on here all the time critizing and putting down Dr. Paul's ideas and positions. Since you seem to be so critical of him............lets hear what you would do instead of Dr. Paul!

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  10. Martha Steinbach

    This is the email I just sent to Ron Paul because his statement was sleazy politics as usual, blatently false and misleading to 'his followers':

    I applaud your statement about the mosque debate in NYC but your facts are erronous (a.k.a. political?). Speaker Pelosi was not questioning who was funding the building of the mosque, she was questioning who was funding the protests against it. You said" The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam." She said: "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat, called for an investigation of those who are protesting the building of the Ground Zero Mosque on Tuesday. She told San Francisco’s KCBS radio:
    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat, called for an investigation of those who are protesting the building of the Ground Zero Mosque on Tuesday. She told San Francisco’s KCBS radio

    “There is no question there is a concerted effort to make this a political issue by some. And I join those who have called for looking into how is this opposition to the mosque being funded,” she said. “How is this being ginned up that here we are talking about Treasure Island, something we’ve been working on for decades, something of great interest to our community as we go forward to an election about the future of our country and two of the first three questions are about a zoning issue in New York City.”

    Calls to investigate the funding for those proposing the $100 million “Cordoba House” have fallen on deaf ears, though, as New York’s Mayor Mike Bloomberg has described such an investigation as “un-American.”

    Ms. Pelosi called the Ground Zero mosque an “urban development decision” for New Yorkers to work through."

    If you are truly a patriot wanting to defend truth and honesty you will correct your statement rather than using typical smear tactics in a politcal campaign.

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  11. Right to the Mark

    The only point of observation where I differ with Congressman Paul is on the issue of the free pass all religions in this country enjoy from property and income taxes.

    I am a steadfast supporter of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, but there is no guarantee within those documents that religious institutions or those with religious beliefs have the right to be subsidized by those who do no share those beliefs. The consequence of the tax privileges extended to belief systems claiming religious status, be they Christian, Muslim, Scientology or Catholic, Buddhist or Shinto, is that they can cause the precise 'oppression by the majority' that Paul warns of. For example there are many cults that took over neighborhoods, towns, communities, or even states, in the instance of the Seventh Day Adventist (Mormon) faith, and by removing vast portions of property from tax rolls and shifting that burden to the non-exempt portions of those communities all but drove non-believers elsewhere. Religious and cult leaders pay no taxes and live at the expense of all. It is essentially unfair, and it is contrary to the true principles upon which this country was founded. Yet, it was a corruption of the principle of freedom of religion that was rooted in the early days of this Republic BEFORE THERE WAS AN INCOME TAX.

    I agree with the basic argument advanced by Ron Paul, but, point out, that if these religious institutions didn't have their tax-exempt status the door would not even be open for the pseudo-conservatives like Rush Limbaugh to be making their prejudiced and specious arguments.

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    1. Linda

      "...in the instance of the Seventh Day Adventist (Mormon) faith,..."

      Seventh Day Adventists are not Mormons--that would be Latter Day Saints. And the Mormons did not "drive non-believers elsewhere," as you state, but were themselves demonized and driven from their homes & towns by those who did not understand them.--kind of like what we're doing now to Muslims.

      Regarding your statement that "religious leaders pay no taxes," you misunderstand the meaning of "tax exempt." Religious organizations don't pay property tax on buildings used for religious worship; but people paid by the church, whether ministers or janitors, have to pay income taxes on their earnings.

      And I fail to understand your view that a tax-exempt status extended to religious organizations can cause "oppression by the majority."

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  12. fred the protectionist

    That's the beauty of Free Trade. We no longer have to look down with pity and patronize foreign cultures for being "exotic"; after we lower our standard of living to the rest of the world we will be just as exotic as them.

    "Mmmm yes, Muslims have contributed greatly to the advancement of science," sips tea with British accent, "do pass the grey poupon."

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  13. Dorothy

    "The art of leadership... consists in consolidating the attention of the people against a single adversary and taking care that nothing will split up that attention." -- A. Hitler

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Down with the Federal Reserve!

      Seig Heil! Seig Heil! Seig Heil!

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  14. The Shatnerd

    Kudos to you Congressman Paul, for your patriotic bravery in standing up the extremist and racist rhetoric being spewed around this issue.

    I may not agree with you on most issues, but it's nice to see folks (in power) on the right who haven't abandoned dedication to the core principles upon which this country was founded.

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  15. Doug

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    1. radii

      get over it, Doug

      the wound that runs deep - it's been nearly 10 years

      did you know that more than 1500 people died in the year after 2001 on our nation's roads than usual because they were afraid to fly?

      people die every day, thousands of our soldiers in these needless wars for that evil parasite israel, but 9/11 was spectacular

      who said it was "very good" while the building rubble piles were still smoldering? Bejamin Netanyahu

      you are clueless and easily manipulated - go vote Republican so they can ship your job to India or Mexico or Guatemala

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  16. Mike M.

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    1. Mark Trance

      Whanker, zealot fanatic hater freaks. Go crawl back under your medieval stone. you mistake the ongoing argument to maintain the constitutional foundation of seperation of church and state as an attack on christianity. Get a grip on reality. You have been mind raped and it has made you a rabid, frothing, reactionary animal. More willing to snap and bite thanto consider and reason. Unfortunately you are not alone..

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      1. Dfens

        Nice post, Mark Trance! Thank the good blogging fairies that our eyes are protected from seeing Mike M's bad post. We'll have no reasoned debate here, that's for sure! It's good to see so many of Ron Paul's supporters backing the property rights of the Muslim murder's and their Saudi backers over the free speech rights of their fellow Americans. You call that "true patriotism" right? Yeah, sure, backing the people who kill Americans over Americans, that's not being a traitor. No, not at all! Thank Ron, my eyes are opened.

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        1. Ryan the perfectionist

          I don't think any of the builders of Park51 have been convicted or accused of murdering anyone. Please keep the collective guilt for all Muslims to yourself. There are close to a million Muslims living and working in New York City. America Muslims have nothing to do with 9/11 except for the fact that we are victims just like everyone else.

          We'll build a community center where we want to and losers like you will have no bearing on the matter.

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  17. Dorothy

    There's nothing more effective than religious demagoguery to distract people from the criminals on Wall St. and Washington D.C. who are devastating the American middle class. Powerful interests are robbing the country blind on behalf of billionaire corporations while the people turn on each other. Classic diversion, they did that during the economic crisis in 1930's Germany and it worked like a charm.

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  18. fred the protectionist

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  19. Dienekes

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    1. Ryan the perfectionist

      Why is it despicable? American Muslims have nothing to do with 9/11. We were victims just like our co-patriots. Hundreds of Muslims died that day. And many Muslims served this country as first responders. Our dead bodies come back in coffins w/ American flags on them and are buried in Arlington cemetery as Muslims are serving in the US army as well.

      In addition to the trauma of the event itself, we have idiots like you thinking we're "despicable" and treating us like crap because we want to build a centers to worship God in. Thanks pal.

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      1. Dienekes

        Re-read the comment.

        The 'despicable' comment was in reference to the Westboro Baptist Church and whether they have "the right" to picket soldiers' funerals.

        The building of the Mosque is about judgement and respect.

        Again, though, the argument isn't about rights.

        Moreoever, Dr. Paul's suggestion that this is some astroturf campaign is nuts. Go tell that to the GZ workers.

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        1. fred the protectionist

          I got a poll.

          What's more offensive: Westboro Baptist Church or Islamic suicide bombers?

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    2. Soares

      "They have the First Amendment right to do it, but it doesn’t mean it is no less despicable."

      The question is, why, all of a sudden, it became so despicable. When, for almost a year, it was not causing all the furor, when it was seen, not just as acceptable, as just "it's their right", but as "a noble effort" by a mother whose son died on 9-11. When both the Imam and his wife, an advisor for the National September 11 Memorial and Museum, were both backed by lots of other people, including a rabbi and an FBI spokesman, whose son was also killed on the 9-11 attacks. When there had been an actual mosque on the Pentagon all along. When even closer to the ground zero there was an actual mosque all along. (See the Salon's piece, "How the "ground zero mosque" fear mongering began")

      It all seemed so nice. It looked as if America was healing. As if it was rising up stronger against the terror. Still united as Americans, against all odds, beating the prejudices, as they did before. Almost unharmed by the terrorism.

      But, not long ago, then it was ingeniously framed as the "ground zero" "mosque". "The monument for the victory of terrorism". Then the thing just run amok.

      It could be just plain prejudice, a sad, but understandable reaction. But given the fact that there had been even pre-printed signs promoting fear-mongering websites appearing on the protests, one can't avoid to wonder if such reaction is really natural, or is it a more coordinated campaign of people who profit from the hate, prejudice, and prolonging the suffering from all the insult *they've made* people feel with the mischievous framing they've invested to promote. An insult to both the relatives of the victims of 9-11 and innocent Muslims, regardless of having had family or friends who died in the attacks, now being portrayed as inherently condoners of the atrocity, where some of themselves may have lost part of their families and friends.

      An insult, that, as I've mentioned, didn't seem to exist before such virulent framing.

      I find all this profoundly disturbing. I want to believe it's all just something people did in the heat of the moment, that they're not really engaged in turning Americans against each other, fomenting a campaign of ethnic hatred. But I find very hard to.

      I can be optimist to the point to of not believing that the Cordoba center was conceived as an insult or as a victory trophy, much less that all Muslims see that way. That seems very reasonable to me, as it seems it was the general opinion right after the project came in the news, on NYT. Even if many, specially outside the US, would really interpret that way. But I don't think that Bin Laden and his folks would be really happy with a center where Muslims and "infidels" can hang out together in the gym. That must be even more frustrating given that it was right there, right next to his "masterpiece", rendered null.

      But I find hard to be optimistic to the point of believing that whose who invest in the campaigns of fear and hate really have the best intentions, that they're really making an effort targeted to improving the situation and the relations between everybody. That looks to me more naïveté than optimism. But I don't know really, it's hard to judge. And, for sure, even people who live in the most civilized places can be as bigoted as those who don't have such luxuries, those who are more easy targets to the hate religion and the feeling of being a victim can so easily nourish.

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      1. Soares

        PS correction, as I can't edit anymore: the FBI spokesman had not a son who died in the attacks. I mixed up as I was checking it, it was on the same paragraph.

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  20. Robert Vandersluis

    Excellent essay. If Congressman Paul isn't careful, he may force me to take another look at the Libertarian Party. And thanks JC above - now I don't have to write so much. Glad I stopped by!

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  21. Jon D

    One thing: it's not a mosque that's being built. It's essentially the Muslim equivalency of a YMCA; yes there will be a room for worship but that's secondary to the activities offered.

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  22. Robbb

    It's August 23, Rand: do you know where your father is?

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  23. Brad

    Ron Paul,

    Thank you. I am becoming more and more cynical about this country's future. It seems that the power and direction of this country relies more on the extremists (on either "side") and ignorant majority each year. The masses, for the most part, have given up reason and constitutionalism in favor of irrational thought provoked by ridiculous circuis-media frenzies. I thank you for offering some reason in such unsettling times. I wish you the best. Have a great day.

    -BW

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  24. Paul Zummo

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    1. Brad

      Unsurprising words from someone with no arguement. To you I ask: why should the Mosque not be built at that location?

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  25. Samih

    Here's another perspective to consider......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgItO0vNxsU&feature=sub

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Uh oh, I can't watch this. He's too brown and I'm suppose to be a racist, so sorry got to pass this one up.

      Besides doesn't look like anyone else even clicked your link.

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      1. Samih

        Maybe they couldn't stomach the truth...........and you can verify his facts!

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  26. Javier

    WOW!!! Powerful words DR. Paul. I may not always agree with you but you continue to be a voice of reason... And your arguments regardless of my opinion always have a very grounded foundation..

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  27. muppetzinspace

    @Jeremiah - There's also a long history of Christian armies who built churches (or converted old pagan temples into churches) on conquered territory (see especially Roman Christianization of Europe, and the Christianization of North and South American natives by European settlers). Forced conversion is also part of Christianity's past too. Yes, Islam has a violent and militaristic begining, but other religions do too. As far as I recall, the men who carried out 9/11 didn't want to convert or build any mosques in America, they just wanted to kill as many "infidels" as possible. For them to view a community center being built in order to foster a "platform for multi-faith dialogue" definatelly wouldn't be parallel to their goal.

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  28. Kim

    This is spot-on accurate. Once again, Ron Paul proves himself as a true patriot of our Constitution, liberty and justice for all.

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  29. JC

    Bravo, Ron Paul!

    To those here who disagree with Congressman Paul-- if we force this community center to move it will mean that we let the terrorists change who we are and what we stand for. That is how we let them win.

    Yes, it would be in poor taste to build a Mosque right on the ground where the twin towers stood but the truth is, this is just a building where some Muslim-Americans will gather. It is not a Mosque. The building can't even be seen from Ground Zero.

    Scott Brown says: "This is a grave for many and sacred ground for many more. The building of this mosque IS insensitive, as are your comments and many of the comments of my fellow Libertarians. "

    I say (again) in response. This is not a Mosque. The very fact that you label it as such, shows that you have been listening to the propagandists who use false information to manipulate you, to stir your emotions-- rile you up. It has obviously worked.

    After the Oklahoma City bombing we did not ban all Christian gathering places near the Federal Building-- we don't blame all Christians for a murder committed by one Christian or a group of Christians, and we do not allow terrorists to change the character of America.

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  30. Mike

    Non-issues posing as issues are the "false flag" operations that our government and media use to distract from the real issues that people should be paying attention to. Distractions that the moneychangers and their elected enablers hope will keep us all pitted against each other while they go on robbing ALL of us blind.

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  31. martin

    ron, i vote d sometimes and r sometimes. i would love to debate you on the environment someday.

    You speak truth, and you stand on principle. You are the most inspirational leader out there. I have so much respect for what you do I find myself defending you to conservatives and democrats alike.

    Keep on keeping on Ron, the world REALLY needs you right now.

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  32. Forest

    Why should we build a Mosque? Everyone knows Aqua Buddha is the greatest God.

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  33. L in M

    It was posted previously that Catholic nuns and priests were killed by American Nativists in the 1800s because of the perceived "threat" of the Catholic church.

    While traveling to Bamberg last year to visit my son, an American soldier, I took time to visit Nuremberg and the Nazi parade grounds/Congress hall. I wanted to know just HOW an entire nation, or a majority, could turn on their fellow man and participate in marginalizing and slaughtering entire groups of people. The Nazis systematically D & D'd the Jews, along with intellectuals (professors), homosexuals, liberals, gypsies and others, before they stripped them of their rights and finally imprisoning and killing them. It happened in stages.

    I see this ideologically-driven rhetoric about Muslims as just another step in a series of steps that can lead to the same kind of fearful and hateful responses in Germany, such as the burning of synagogues on Kristallnacht. All in the name of "protecting freedom"... the constitution right now protects all of our citizens from such harm, but for how long? I hear a knock on the gate to our freedom and it isn't from the Muslims, its from within. Ironically, its exactly what the terrorists wanted to begin with. Lest we forget history, I'll remind us what another ideologically over-invested leader said about the jews:

    “We were also those who, for the first time, made major efforts to explain to the people a danger that had crept up on us, and which millions ...of people did not recognize, even though it threatened to ruin us all: the danger of the Jews.” . Adolph Hitler

    I refuse to live in fear in my own country. I owe it to myself, my loved ones and my country to push back on this rhetoric that is intended to lay claim to some higher good; refusing rights to those judged 'unworthy' simply because of their religion is unAmerican and I will not tolerate it. Those who wish to speak freely about their disdain for their fellow citizens are free to do so; its a right protected by the Constitution. But fellow citizens have an equal right to exercise their right to dismiss it. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from ridicule.

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  34. sarah

    I thought the Speaker was calling for an investigation into those who oppose the mosque. Otherwise, demagogues at their best is truly the best way to describe this madness.

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  35. HeartlandLiberal

    Wow. Just wow. I am NOT a fan of Mr. Paul or Libertarians, and I abhor their attacks on social security and Medicare and other frameworks of the social contract that I consider necessary, while being wholeheartedly in agreement on the insanity of the wars we have launched without justification, and to a great extent just to reward corporations with war profiteering lucre.

    But this statement by Mr. Paul is absolutely one of the clearest, most cogently stated analysis of the insane, xenophobic, racist, neo-con, right wing disinformation campaign centered on the mosque I have seen, anywhere, on progressive or conservative, left or right wing sources.

    It goes straight to the heart of the matter, and clearly and incisively delineates the utter, vapid, hypocrisy of the arguments against the mosque.

    This statement profoundly changes my attitude towards Mr. Paul, in a positive way.

    All of you reading this, I would suggest you followup this statement with a reading of Martin Luther Kings' "Letter from Birmingham Jail". There are lots of parallels, and lots of opportunity for understanding history here.

    http://www.mlkonline.net/jail.html

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    1. fred the protectionist

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      1. Ryan the perfectionist

        Fred, is that the best you got? Why are people like you always trying to divide our country and so against rational discussion?

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