912 responses to “Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots: Stop Your Demagogy About The NYC Mosque!”

  1. Robert Gosney

    Robert Gosney to Ron Paul, Stop Your Demagoguery About We The People!

    Report this comment

    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 15

  2. bobny

    Here’s how you obfuscate the truth. No one is saying don’t build the mosque, they’re saying don’t build it there. Why is it the Catholic church is responsible enough to understand that when there was a convent built near auschwitz, Pope John Paul II asked the nuns to move because of the feeling of the people nearby, but if its against the ideology of Islam it becomes demagogory or islamophobia?

    Report this comment

    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 17

    1. Summer Wiliamson

      There is no “FREE SOCIETY” in America today. I’m not a racist against religion, nor color, but I’am allowed to speak my opinion,( I think I still have that right ? ) What you people don’t seem to understand is this is a slap in the face to the American People. true we have no business over there in their country fighting a senseless war ( thank you MR. BUSH ). Imyself do not support the war effort, but I do support our soldiers, those of who “Our Government” sent over there to be killed, “OUR OWN PEOPLE”( KILLED ). You say that “the building of a mosque near ground zero implies Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks” and it’s like blaming Christians for the wars of aggression”. Well, let me ask this, do you think that if we as AMERICANS went to their country and built a huge Catholic Church in their Capital City, there would’nt be an UPROAR by their citizens? Would that meanthat “they are oppressors of minority rights, and individual dictators”? Come on people! You all are squaking about 1st Amendment rights, well what about our rights as AMERICAN CITIZENS, we have no rights, our government let them come over here, trained them, and now we have to bow down to their every whim,PLEASE!. Almost every quick stop, etc. is owned by them, if we as American Citizens try to go into a business like that we get turned down, even our veterans, never mind “our government put them in business”. I, as a small business owner can’t even get help from “my own government”. All we get is taxed more.so, maybe this is “about hate and Islamophobia”.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 8

      1. David

        Well, Susan, your post is pretty much saying things like they are and what i’m seeing from the demonstrations and public action which has been generated by this as well. I also agree with everything Ron Paul says on this as well in that we do have to remember the rights and freedoms guaranteed by the constitution in regards to this.

        The questions everyone needs to ask are these. Why in the world, would anyone decide to build a mosque in this location, knowing full well the hatred and the controversy it would generate ? There can only be two possible reasons, either it is a willful and deliberate insult to the American people, or the situation has been engineered and manipulated in order to create the controversy and just as Ron Paul has stated and as i stated in my post further up, in order to distract people from more important issues. Think and ask some questions people, don’t just react, why would anyone in their right mind want to so this in the first place ?

        Here is the situation, America is heading toward the final evolution of tolerating a private banking system, of which we had a really good discussion awhile back right here and many more which have been posted on the various blogs on this site.

        http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-07-09/majority-of-americans-believe-obama-is-a-socialist/comment-page-5/#comment-115818

        Until now and over the past 6 months or so, the American population has been waking up in droves and figuring out how our banks have manipulated our political system though their ownership of our currency and control of our economy in order to establish themselves as a “ruling elite” over America’s population and they’ve also figured out that the current, long term and permanent depression were experiencing can only get worse, is simply and only due to the fact that these banks have managed to cheat and scam away all of the currency we need to trade with each other in spite of the fact that our production capacity and ability to create prosperity hasn’t changed one bit, so that they can continue to cheat and scam their way into owning all the property and then the people too.

        The American people have been fast developing a single mindset, and realizing that if they are to save themselves and their freedom from the fate of the rest of the world, that they need to act together and take back their country and economy for themselves from the private interests who have, in combination with the number of politicians they have put into power to serve their interests, usurped it for the purpose of reducing them under absolute despotism, just as they have every other country in the world up till this point with America being the last on the list.

        The simple fact that this issue can exist to begin with, or that 9/11 happened in the first place, is because these same private interests have manipulated the United States Government into involving themselves in the affairs of other countries which are no concern of ours instead of doing their job toward the benefit and prosperity if the American people. In doing so they have created another massive long drawn out war, which will never come to an end simply to create more debt so they can gain absolute power and ownership of the last of what is left of America even faster. Were it not for this, the Islamic extremists deemed responsible for 9/11 would not have cared less about us in the first place, nor would Islam have been anything but a different and curious religion to most of us either.

        What better way to distract people from this objective than to create a huge controversy that will generate so much hatred and conflict that it will completely distract everyone from dealing with the problem they had already determined they needed to deal with until more power can be established to prevent them from doing so ? Ron Paul has said as much and i’m saying it again here. Those on here who have been trying to defend our banking system were doing this on the Border Security blog awhile back too, trying to stir up hatred and controversy in regards to Immigrants and now they seem to have switched over to this issue and are trying to exacerbate it to the greatest extent that they possibly can.

        Whether the mosque is built or not, will not solve our economic problem which has the American people living in the worst state of poverty they have experienced in 70 years, while neither our production capacity nor our ability to create prosperity for each other has not changed one bit. Whether or not the mosque is built will make no difference in the ability of our Banking system to continue to gobble up ever more of our country, its industry and resources until it all belongs to them and they manage to establish ownership over the people themselves as they already have in every other place in the world but here. Our country and we ourselves are on the verge of starvation from tolerating an ever increasing parasitic infection which is going to kill us if we don’t swallow that tablespoon of kerosene to kill the parasite before its too late.

        If the mosque is built, just as i said in my earlier post, with the hatred and controversy which has been created, someone is going to burn it to the ground as soon as its done and those intending on building this already know this. Then if the banks give them money and pay them extra to build it again and let it happen once more and then again and again and again, so that they can and multiply the hatred and controversy x 2, x 4, x 8, x 16, x 32 and so on and continue to keep people busy hating Moslems with it and make them forget about getting rid of them so they themselves can have a chance to survive and prosper, what’s going to happen ? What else can this be other than one last ditch desperate attempt by the parasites to continue to remain in our system when we have already made up our minds that we need to get rid of them and are fully capable of doing so ?

        Are we really going to be stupid and gullible enough to let them do this to us again ??????????????????????????????????????????????????

        From the amount of attention this issue is getting it really seems so.

        Anyway go here:

        http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/fiat-money-inflation-federal-reserve/comment-page-21/#comment-126876

        We’ve been discussing this for a little while on the sound money blog and i think this may be the tablespoon of kerosene which will finally kill the parasite, in the simplest, easiest and most painless way it can be done and allow the rest of us to survive and finally prosper together to the fullest extent of our own abilities, which are greater than most people here can possibly imagine. Take a little time out from this and do your part to make it happen and then whoever wants to can come back to debating this issue. As for myself i’ll just go in my shop and get busy with something fun and interesting.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  3. RespectRon

    I am normally to the left of Ron Paul, but I can never help to have enormous repect for him as a man of honesty and integrety. This article absolutely proves that Ron is a man of principle and not of reactionary and emotional populism. While I have quite a number of differing political opinions from him (which I respect) he is an example of what politicians elected to represent their people should be like.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 30 Thumb down 5

  4. longnow

    I have to say that Dr Paul is right.
    The republican party uses demagogues like
    Gingrich & Liz Cheney to use hatred against
    Islam to whip ppl up for their next war
    and the ppl of my city follow right along.
    I am not a Paul voter but he takes stands
    against his liar-4-hire party that are correct.
    My beef against Paul is that other parts
    of his ideology cannot stand up to the
    political reality of national political office.
    They go over great in speeches. Letting
    the banks go under in 08 is great as
    a congressman but not so great when
    you’re literally looking at world wide depression
    with billions unemployed. He would not
    do it if he were President.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 9

    1. Miguel Ortega

      “My beef against Paul is that other parts
      of his ideology cannot stand up to the
      political reality of national political office.
      They go over great in speeches. Letting
      the banks go under in 08 is great as
      a congressman but not so great when
      you’re literally looking at world wide depression
      with billions unemployed.”

      His ideas are very radical and insane. Like a non-interventionalist foreign policy, which prevents unconsitutional wars, close all the bases around the world that we are wasting money on and strictly concentrate on using the Federal Government to protect our borders and save a trillion dollars a year that we don’t have to protect our borders and better serve our citizens, NO to socialized medicine, NO to the Federal Reserve whos unconstitutionally bringing us through ruin and destruction of our currency, can you believe he actually wants to restore our economy to a true free market? RADICAL VIEWS in my opinion….. go listen to Paul Hank some more and believe what he tells you…

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 14

  5. william ridenour

    Dr Paul rightly asks a fair question:
    Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

    Clearly, both parties are guilty of seeking political gain through demagoguery. And, no doubt, some political opportunists are doing so—but not all––not even the majority.
    Surely, those whose loved ones died on 9/11 are not demagoguing the present situation–what do they have to gain politically? A vast majority of We the People are surely not—as we see our government consistently betray us, refuse to defend our borders and nullify our express will by judicial activism we are deeply concerned about our security, our liberty and the liberty of our children and grand children. How damned hard is that to understand?

    I understand Dr. Paul is deeply involved with a long and difficult struggle with collectivists, centralists and imperialists that have abused their positions of power in Washington. With him I stand uncompromisingly against these traitors to Liberty.
    Humanly speaking, I can understand his perspective. I sympathize with it greatly: I too want to see Imperialists Neocons removed from power and the doctrines and wisdom of the Founders restored. But I think Dr. Paul is focused on the wrong object in this dilemma.

    Please consider:
    In the west we’ve largely forsaken the past for a radical materialism, moral relativism and indulged in unrestrained hedonism. Many of us have tried to suppress and forget the past.
    Not the Muslims. Nor have many of We the People.
    We the People, the non-political class, the common people, know with the Muslims throughout the world, that symbols are powerful. Great symbols are images that fix the mind in a certain disposition. Images and symbols have inspired whole movements in history. The image of the destruction of the twin towers are fixed in the minds of millions throughout the world, and that image means radically different things, depending upon your perspective. (Remember the wild celebrations in many Muslim countries when the towers fell?)

    Such symbols may not effect the so-called educated classes in the West, whose lives have been boiled down to living for themselves, accruing material gain and donning the trappings of so-called prosperity. But these symbols have great power in the minds of vast numbers in the Muslim world wide where they speak to their children daily about conflicts with the West that happened a thousand years ago. They remember Muslim defeats in the twelfth century like we in the South remember what was done to us by a brutal, unconstitutional all-out war in the 19th century.

    The issue here is not us; not the neocons or the political/ideological battles wages in Washington, but what the buliding of this Mosque means in the minds of militant Islam world-wide.

    We must see this event through their minds and eyes, and if we do we will understand building such an edifice is not just a petty diversionary matter trumped up by the Neocons in collusion with the Obama administration. It is something very power indeed. It will be one more thing that will confirm in their minds what Osama Bin Laden told them twenty years ago: America is a paper tiger—we can take them.

    It is because of the power of symbols in the minds of Militant Islam, not the partisan squabbles of beltway politicians, that we must seriously address this issue.

    If we give into this plan the matter will not be settled. Every acquiescence only invites more—and to that there will be no end until we gain some backbone, as the army of Charles Martel did at Tours: draw the line and hold it.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 6

    1. Mark Fey

      @william ridenour has written many fine sounding words, but in the final analysis his opinion expressed is deeply unAmerican and not well thought out.

      He argues for a kind of apartheid in America, where some citizens have their rights restricted by the majority who kindly ask them to drink from the separate water fountain reserved for their use.

      Mr. william ridenour, it is not about “If we give into this plan…” It is about if we are strong enough and wise enough to live up to our founding documents and highest American ideals. Anything else is cowardly and not fit for “the land of the free and home of the brave.”

      Read Mr. Paul’s words again, please. He has something to teach you.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5

      1. Robert Gosney

        Read William’s words again. Ron has something to teach himself.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8

      2. Chris Purdef

        Since when is the rule of law “unAmerican” and “apartheid”?

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

        1. Mark Fey

          When you distinguish a group to be afforded unequal privileges and opportunity in a society, THAT is “apartheid”.

          Rule of law is all that is needed to affirm the right and opportunity for all freedom loving Americans to have equal privilege and opportunity.

          ANYTHING less than that is UNAMERICAN.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      3. william ridenour

        Mark Frey wrote:
        Mr. william ridenour, it is not about “If we give into this plan…” It is about if we are strong enough and wise enough to live up to our founding documents and highest American ideals. Anything else is cowardly and not fit for “the land of the free and home of the brave.”

        Let’s look at an analogous piece of reasoning:
        I guess it’s not about the poisoner, it’s about how much poison I can ingest and stay live. Yea, that’s American Machismo.

        If we indiscriminately allow those to who come here and proceed to segregate THEMSELVES off into isolated communities and game our courts to eventually establish a separate system of justice and punishment (Sharia) for themselves (just as they have done in many, many places to which they have migrated) we will see the end of “the land of free and the home of the brave.”

        When did one of our highest American ideals become permitting those who are intent upon destroying our culture and establishing their own here do so without resistance?

        How do societies characterized by tolerance respond to head on encounters with cultures, religions and ideals that have long been characterized by absolutist demands, severe laws and intolerance of divergent views and ideologies? By simply caving into them. IS THAT the American way? Is that how America became a great nation?

        Where would we be now if our Founders had said, “Sure, King George has been a little rough on us and we don’t share his views on hardly anything, but we shouldn’t cause any trouble. We have to be tolerant above all things, you know. After all, if we attack him the British might call us Regiophobic––and that would be the worst thing in the world. We just couldn’t bear that since we’re so phobiaophobic.

        What nonsense. Who made you king to proclaim tolerance as the sine qua non of Libertarian political correctness?

        Must every insult and abuse, therefore, be endured without resistance or reaction because we, as Libertarians, must as slavishly and mindlessly obey the idea of Tolerance as leftists do the idea of Equality?

        I thought America was about protecting and preserving OUR Liberty, not about having such a mindless adherence to Tolerance that it places our Liberty in peril.

        We have been known as the land of Liberty–not the land of Tolerance…and certain not the land of Tolerance for those who are intent on using American liberty to destroy American Liberty.

        Such mindless kowtowing to the god of Tolerance will destroy every other American value we hold dear, take our liberties and render us helpless to protect ourselves against an implacable and ancient enemy of freedom. Slavish adherence to Tolerance will make us the feckless and useful idiots radical Islamists want us to be. And our defense of them will not engender their friendship and gratitude but their contempt for our naivety and stupidity.

        Do you want America to become so tolerant that we cannot prosecute honor killings (like the one that took place only two years ago about 20 miles from my home in Dallas) because the killings are part of this group’s religion and culture, which has gained separate legal rights through our courts? (They still have no idea where that man has gone who murdered his teen age daughters because “they had become whores by dating Mexicans”.)

        It’s clear these executions were planned and his family assisted him in vanishing—and the cops in Dallas have done almost nothing in response because of the “cultural sensitivity.”

        How effective are you “highest American values” and precious tolerance in protecting the lives of children caught up in situations like this, Mr. Useful Idiot? Your rigid and mindless ideals are of little consolation to them or their broken hearted American born mother.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

        1. Mark Fey

          william’s words above are those of a proud bigot and are direct contravention of those policies of which American’s have right to be proud.

          They could have easily be spoken by the same people that ordered “JUDEN” to be painted upon the shops and homes of the people they wished to abuse.

          We certainly do not need to relive these nightmares of the 20th century again to renew the memories of ideology gone rancid.

          The tragic deaths that he mentions are not prosecuted because of “sensitivity”, they have a lack of evidence and cooperation. Why would people cooperate with hate and intolerance. Does this sound like a solution to you? We have laws that the people of Texas would be happy to apply to the situation you mention.

          What does liberty look like without tolerance? To say you are free, as long as you do not vary in your life from what is prescribed — This is not to have liberty at all! A person would be at the mercy of the people determining the “norms”.

          American values have been abused many times in the past, by people preaching expediency and/or seeing the opportunity to rabble rouse for their own purposes.

          Note to all readers of these comments:
          Read all of william ridenour comments with the knowledge that he excels at name calling and writing in complete sentences, but fails at being true American patriot. Review Ron Paul’s words to see the marked difference.

          Report this comment

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

    2. Robert Gosney

      Very well written William. It reminds me that Ron Paul is one of the leading voices raising questions about how our overseas actions are viewed and interpreted by Muslims world wide. And how we are creating our own blow back because we don’t see our actions through their eye’s.

      Doctor, heal thyself!

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4

      1. william ridenour

        Robert, thank you. Excellent insight–I wish I could have put it so clearly and succinctly.
        tom

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  6. william ridenour

    I note Dr. Paul has noted we’re giving this issue too much attention. I, in some degree, agree. But his gratuitous wading into the issue, like Obama’s, has added fuel to the fire. In that regard, from his national platform, he has done what he now tells us not to do. Balderdash!
    I guess we should just fall silent and let the political elites comment?
    I thought Dr. Paul was a man of the people–I supported him–he had my enthusiastic support on economics and even foreign policy. Now, I don’t know.
    He gave me hope. Now, I don’t know.
    Defending our land from Muslim hegemony in no way supports further wars.
    I can walk and chew gum at the same time:
    Just watch me:
    No Mosque at ground Zero: No more Imperial wars of conquest for the Washington Oligarchy!
    I won’t be fooled by either of the hegemoniacs–I hope you’re not either!

    Report this comment

    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 17

    1. Chris Purdef

      Well put William.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  7. David A Morse

    Cerebellum

    The point was not to suggest that all believersof any faith are evil. But that is what those against the NYC Mosque ARE saying about all Muslims. They believe the mosque is a way for Muslims to attack our values.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5

    1. Cerebellum

      True. But we can’t sink to their level.

      Remember, there are religious and non-religious people on BOTH sides.

      Remember: Many Christians, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics are standing with Muslims to defend this mosque.

      We should always keep that in mind. The evil here is not isolated to one ideology. Neither is the good.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3

      1. Anne Jasmine

        “Remember, there are religious and non-religious people on BOTH sides. ”

        Yeah. That’s unfortunately true. I’ve seen plenty of my fellow Atheists standing side by side with other wackjobs, denouncing not only this mosque but also calling for the forced assimilation or expulsion of Muslims (Geert Wilders, Sam Harris, Jerry Coyne, Pat Condell, the list goes on).

        Guys, we can’t blame this one on the fundies. We’ve got just as many wackjobs in our house too.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  8. David A Morse

    THERE IS no evidence whatsoever of any attempt to impose Islam on the Jews. As is well known, under Muslim rule the Jews of Spain enjoyed a bloom the like of which the Jews did not enjoy anywhere else until almost our time. Poets like Yehuda Halevy wrote in Arabic, as did the great Maimonides. In Muslim Spain, Jews were ministers, poets, scientists. In Muslim Toledo, Christian, Jewish and Muslim scholars worked together and translated the ancient Greek philosophical and scientific texts. That was, indeed, the Golden Age. How would this have been possible, had the Prophet decreed the “spreading of the faith by the sword”?

    What happened afterwards is even more telling. When the Catholics re-conquered Spain from the Muslims, they instituted a reign of religious terror. The Jews and the Muslims were presented with a cruel choice: to become Christians, to be massacred or to leave. And where did the hundreds of thousand of Jews, who refused to abandon their faith, escape? Almost all of them were received with open arms in the Muslim countries. The Sephardi (“Spanish”) Jews settled all over the Muslim world, from Morocco in the west to Iraq in the east, from Bulgaria (then part of the Ottoman Empire) in the north to Sudan in the south. Nowhere were they persecuted. They knew nothing like the tortures of the Inquisition, the flames of the auto-da-fe, the pogroms, the terrible mass-expulsions that took place in almost all Christian countries, up to the Holocaust.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4

    1. Crista Lancaster

      Let me summarize your points:

      1. Everything Muslim forces and kings did was good, and pluralistic and wonderful.

      2. Everything Christian forces and kings did dripped with liquid malice and was evil and despicable.

      Nothing is that cut and dry.

      Both Eastern and Western powers did horrible things to both their foes and their populace in the name of order and power. No one’s hands were clean.
      There was forced conversions and sackings and atrocities to horrible to be named on both sides (Tuchman’s “A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century”, and Hallam’s “Chronicles of the Crusades”).

      These acts are not limited to the time period, and in fact would haunt us all the way through the 20th century in lands both devoutly religious and definitively secular.

      It is not one belief system that does this: it is a government which understands power that does so.

      A government no different than the ones which rule the people of the United States, the Middle East and the whole of Europe. A government which will foment discord and hatred between citizens to distract them and keep from uniting against it, and if need be, will attempt to forcibly assimilate all under it’s ideology.

      Theists….atheists….nonaffiliated….affiliated….liberals….conservatives….libertarians…..anarchists…black….white…asian….all free peoples.

      Don’t let them distract you. Your differences make you strong. Stand together. Let us show them the power of the people.

      Dr. Paul, my name is Crista, I am a medical student and I am proud to be at your side, sir.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

    2. jack ryan

      David A Morse presents some truths and lots of non truths, ridiculous comments about life in Spain during the 700 year Arab Muslim occupation that ended in 1492.

      Yes, Jews did enjoy special privileges, great wealth and influence in Moorish Spain – and they were deeply, deeply resented by the Spanish Christian population, resulting in the Inquisition – which was led by fervent Jewish Conversos.

      Here is an excellent article on this period of history and the end result was that Spain through off the Muslim occupation and began a golden age:

      Spain 1492: Spain Might Have Had Some Good Reasons for Expelling the Jews
      Instauration Magazine November 1992

      Every schoolboy is or should be familiar with the year 1492, the year of the (re)discovery of the New world by Christopher Columbus, a Genoese in the service of the Spanish monarchs, Ferdinand and Isabella. For Spain, 1492 was to be the most important year in its history, as well as one of the most important in world history. it was the year the Spanish nation was consolidated, the year it said adi6s to the middle Ages, the year when the splendorous Spanish State took center stage in the political evolution of the West.in the beginning of the year, on January 2, after a long siege, the army of the Spanish monarchs marched into the city of Granada, thus reconquering the last of the real estate seized by the Arabs and moors seven centuries earlier. Then, on March 31, the Catholic monarchs signed a royal edict that ordered all Jews in Spain to convert to Christianity or ship out. Five months later Columbus sailed out of the Spanish port of Palos hoping to discover a new route to the Indies. His tiny fleet passed boats loaded with Jews sorrowfully complying with Ferdinand and Isabella’s expulsion order.

      *

      In this 500th anniversary of Columbus’s epochal voyage, much of the celebration has been marred by media inspired attacks on Spain for her “cruelty” and “foolishness” in expelling Jews. No one seemed to care what was done to the Muslims, who were also given the choice of conversion or expulsion a few years later, just as no one these days seems to care much about what was done to non-Jews in WWII German and Soviet concentration camps, where the death toll of Gentiles was probably ten times greater than the number of Jewish fatalities. Actually, any Jew who converted to Christianity was perfectly free to stay in Spain. Those who left could take all their earthly possessions with them, except gold and silver coins and trinkets.

      The current media story line is that the Spanish, in a fit of blind religious fanaticism, cut off their noses to spite their faces by kicking out the clever and enterprising Jewish community. Having heard these tearful tales over and over again, history buffs could be forgiven for thinking that only mass insanity could have led Spaniards to commit such an enormous gaffe. Jews, today’s spin doctors insist, were the cultural and economic backbone of Spain, the most educated and verbal segment of the population. Only greed, envy, ignorance and Christian bigotry could possibly explain this act of pure folly. once again, a peaceful, unoffending people were driven out into the cold because of the heartlessness of their wicked neighbors. But that is not the end of the story! As is almost always the case, there was a price to be paid for persecuting the Jews. The price for Spain, according to the Jewish version of history, was its decline and fall, following the loss of so much Jewish brainpower and the economic and cultural benefits which Spain’s rivals, Portugal and Holland, received from swarms of Jewish refugees.

      Per usual, when it comes to Jews, the story they tell is, shall we say, at variance with the facts. Fourteen hundred and ninety-two was the year Spanish civilization took off like a rocket. Within a century or two, Cervantes was writing Don Quixote; Velasquez was painting his incomparable portraits; Calder6n was writing his brilliant plays. it al most seemed as if the presence of the Jews had kept Spanish culture under wraps and their forced removal unloosed tremendous bursts of artistic, literary and economic energy. (Might it be possible that the same unshackling of cultural forces would produce similar results if the Jews left the U. S.?) In A History of Medieval Spain, Professor Joseph F. O’Callaghan provides us with perhaps the most scholarly and precise treatment of Spanish history in the time between the Arab conquest and the moors’ surrender of Granada. Spain had its origins in the Roman Empire. The Roman provinces in what is now Spain and Portugal furnished the Empire with some of its greatest emperors. with the fall of Rome, Spain was transformed into a kingdom of Visigoths, one of the German tribes which had inherited remnants of the Empire. The Visigothic kings were Christianized and ruled over a population comprised partly of Nordics and largely of mediterraneans, with a heavy sprinkling of Jews. Later, when the Arabs imposed Islam on Spain, the composition of the population was not greatly changed. The overwhelming majority of Arabs and Spaniards belonged to the Mediterranean race, though Nordic racial traits, such as fair complexions and blue eyes (Isabella had them), were discernible in the ruling circles of both peoples. Some Nordic genes had been implanted by the Vandals who swept through Spain before the Visigoths and fought their way as far as Tunis in North Africa. Here, it might also be noted, that the Muslim rulers and caliphs of Spain were not exactly cultural throwbacks. The Alhambra Palace in Granada is the most beautiful and most graceful pleasure dome to be found on any continent. In 675 the Muslims launched their first raid on Spain, which was repulsed by the Visigothic fleet. By 711, the Arabs had conquered North Africa and were ready to invade Western Europe. in only 21 years they penetrated as far north as Tours in France before being defeated and thrown back by the Franks under Charles Martel.

      The reasons for the woefully poor showing of the Visigoths vis-A-vis the Arab invaders had to do with treason in high places. As O’Callaghan remarks, “Certainly the Jews and others who had suffered under Visigothic rule welcomed the invaders as liberators and collaborated with them.” As O’Callaghan also points out, perhaps to avoid endangering his academic standing, the Jewish renegadism was justified by the “disorder” of the Visigothic Kingdom. The reconquest of Spain started in the rugged mountains’ of Asturias in northern Spain. There a Visigothic knight, Pelayo, refused to bow down to the Muslims and won the first battle in a 700-year-war between Islam and Christianity. The Reconquista, as it is known, was a glorious era in the history of the West. A proud and fierce people would be tried and tested in a thousand battles. The Jews, as is their custom, quickly burrowed into the Arab fabric of Spain. Generally preferring Muslim to Christian overlords, the People of the Book were allowed to practice their religion without interference and became key elements in Muslim society. it need hardly be added that the Christians who had suffered from Jewish moneymen in Visigothic times, came to loathe them more than ever in Muslim Spain.

      By the 11th century the situation in Spain had become fluid, with the Christians slowly nibbling back parts of their lost lands, while constantly under the threat of fierce Muslim counterattacks. It is not surprising that the eternal “middlemen” should rise to the surface in these troubled times. In both the Muslim and Christian parts of Spain, Jews engaged in all their age-old occupational specialties: usury, the slave trade, prostitution, tax “farming” (contracts to collect taxes for the kings and nobles), the law, medicine, administration and any other type of employment that required little or no physical labor. Worst of all from the point of view of the pious Christian population, they were able to infiltrate the church in large numbers. it was this last activity that led to their downfall. As Muslim power waned, Jews relied more and more on the expanding Christian kingdoms of Spain to provide them with their customary perks. Employed by Spanish monarchs in the most sensitive matters of state, especially in finance, Jews never had it so good since the good old days of Solomon. The Chosen, however, could not enter the church without converting. It was not too long before true Christians realized that the Christianity of most “New Christians” was only skin deep. That converted Jews mocked the Christian religion, celebrated Jewish feast days, and were slowly and subtly introducing Talmudic themes into Christian theology were open secrets. It was no wonder they came to be viewed as a hostile element, busy weakening the Christian nation in the very face of the Muslim enemy.

      High-Octane Religiosity

      In the Middle Ages religion was the fault line of the world. In the same way that the West fought communism in this century, so the Christian West fought the power of Islam in those crucial years. Religion was central to all aspects of life, there being no such thing as a secular state. It is a waste of words to argue that Christian Spain should have made room for Jews and Muslims. Such an accommodation was quite out of the question in the Age of Faith. When Spain expelled the Jews, England, France and other European nations had long since sent them on their way, for approximately the same reasons. The main difference was that the number of Jews and their influence and affluence in Spain were vastly greater than elsewhere in Europe. Ironically the European nations that would later condemn Spain for expelling Jews were the first to voice suspicion of Spain’s “purity” because it had been “defiled” by the presence of so many Jews and Muslims. Queen Isabella agreed up to a point. She knew very well that as long as Jews remained in her kingdom they would constitute a political, cultural, philosophical and theological fifth column, not to mention a military liability in the event of a Muslim attempt to retake what they had lost-a scary scenario that was always a possibility.

      Isabella and her husband, Ferdinand, knew in their hearts that only by building one undivided and indivisible Spain could they carry out the tremendous task they had set for themselves. They understood what we seem to have forgotten: You cannot build a nation out of disparate population groups widely separated by culture and religion. Either Jews and Muslims would leave or renounce their faith, or Spain, as a united Christian country, would never endure. Although Jews are not a race, they act like a race and should be treated as one. Anthropologically speaking, they are various mixtures of the Nordic, Alpine and Mediterranean races, with a few distinctive facial traits showing up in many of them. Isabella’s relying on religion to define a Jew may have been adequate in her day, but it would be wide of the mark in 1992. Today, in the U.S. about 70% of Jews are non-religious. To use Judaism as a basis for expelling Jews would allow the more intelligent and more devious Jews to remain in our midst.

      The Jews in the Christian Spain aborning were not fools. They were quite aware that popular sentiment was rising against them. Fighting back in any way they could, they bribed powerful and corrupt nobles and worked their way into high positions in the government and church. All in vain. In 1391 massive anti-Jewish pogroms broke out across Spain. In that year, thousands of Jews were killed in Aragon and Castile. in the words of O’Callaghan,

      Hostility towards the Jews had often been manifested in the past, chiefly because of their involvement in money-lending and tax-farming. Complaints about Jewish usury and Jewish tax collectors occur again and again in the records of the Cones [the Spanish parliament or assembly] . . . . Though the Crown usually promised to attend to these complaints, Jews continued to figure prominently in the management of royal finances. The riots of 1391 spelled the beginning of the end for Spanish Jewry, although it would still hold on for another hundred years. The simple truth was that Spain had outgrown Jews, just as it had outgrown Muslims. The Jews, as stated previously, had no part to play in Spain’s great years, which, some cynics say, is why Spain had its “great years.” The Encyclopaedia Britannica (1963 edition, vol. 2 1, p. 122) adds: “The tide of national enthusiasm, religious fanaticism and indignation at Jewish financial operations reached its high-water mark about three months after the fall of Granada. . . .” Apparently there were early-bird milkens and Boeskys in the ranks of Spanish jewry. Professor Philip W. Powell, in his book, The Tree of Hate (published in 1985) attributes the expulsion of the Jews to a religious conflict between Judaism and Christianity. He is not afraid to meet the issue of anti-Semitism headon: ‘The very misleading term of ‘anti-Semitism’ is so carelessly, or malevolently, tossed about these days that it virtually has no meaning except as a convenient rock to hurl in anger–but, like a rock, it can hurt.” He goes on to say: The Jews’] impassioned opinions hamper the writing of fair and unbiased accounts of Spain. Jewish emotion, when aroused by historical memory of [the] Spanish Inquisition and expulsion, exaggerates and distorts, and certainly gives little shrift to the Spanish side of the story …. Jewish writers are aided by a popular opinion, much of it created by themselves, which for centuries has influenced writing upon these themes.

      Powell points out that while it is true that all the 165,000 or so Jews who refused to give up Judaism were expelled in 1492, many more chose to stay and converted. Those who only converted superficially underwent various forms of capital punishment. Jews and other writers of anti-Spanish tendencies, have preferred to focus attention upon these Spanish crimes as a means of demonstrating Spanish cruelty and bigotry. The usual groundwork for this is a morality of later centuries applied to 15th and 16th century historical situations, without that sense of justice so essential to historical interpretations. Or, sometimes more simply, it may come from the well-known Jewish propensity for cultural replenishment out of martyrdom. Professor Powell gets to the nitty-gritty in these words: But the majority of the Spanish people, witnessing [all the] evidence of Jewish-Converso influence . . . . and simply the numbers of Jews daily discernible in the population would, and did, view the situation with antagonism.

      Explaining that this antagonism sometimes led to mob attacks on Jews, Powell dryly adds, “If there was anything uniquely Spanish in all this, it was not intolerance or bigotry, but rather a notable forbearance in comparison to the ways the Jewish problem was handled elsewhere in Europe.”

      Inquisition Hype The chief purpose of the Spanish Inquisition, established in 1480, was to ensure that Jews did not create a “state within a state.” The Inquisition was a defense of the monarchy and a defense against treason. Many European states applauded its creation as a needed step to rein in Jewish power. Whatever the Inquisition was to become once the Jews had gone, it served its primary purpose in ridding Spain of a hostile force of infiltrators and subversives at a time when the church and nation were in grave danger. The ferocity of the Spanish Inquisition may well stem from the fact that it was in large part staffed by Jewish converts, who amply demonstrated that they had lost none of their innate venom by switching religions. Jewish converts who fell all over themselves to prove their loyalty to their new faith were the driving force behind the grim and fanatical persecution of other Jews. Tomas de Torquemada, the ferocious inquisitor General, who sent so many of his brethren to the stake, is said to have been of Jewish descent. No less an authority than Salvador de madariaga, one of modern Spain’s leading intellectuals, holds to the view that the peculiar intolerance of the Spanish Inquisition can be traced, in part, to the presence of Jewish converts in its highest ranks. Madariaga, by the way, made up for this “anti-Semitic” opinion by stating that Columbus was a converso, but not necessarily a Marrano (pig in Spanish), a derogatory term for a convert who practiced Judaism secretly. Several Jewish scholars, including the non-scholars of Time magazine, have accused King Ferdinand of being “part Jewish,” though they never satisfactorily explain where the Jewish genes came from. To sum up, Spain’s expulsion of the Jews was logical, rational and, for the times, not overly cruel-far less cruel than what modern Jews have done and continue to do to the Palestinians. The Spanish have no need to apologize for their actions in freeing their nation from a harmful internal enemy. The Jews resented their expulsion, as they have resented other forced exoduses in their history. The truth is, contemporary Jews should not blame Spain for their ancestors’ misfortunes five centuries ago. They need only to look in the mirror.

      *

      N.B.F. and W.R.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 9

      1. Etaoin Shrdlu

        And thank you for that anti-Semitic diatribe. So the Jews deserved what they got, eh? Next you’ll tell us America fought on the wrong side in World War II!

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  9. David A Morse

    In 1099, the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem and massacred its Muslim and Jewish inhabitants indiscriminately, in the name of the gentle Jesus. At that time, 400 years into the occupation of Palestine by the Muslims, Christians were still the majority in the country. Throughout this long period, no effort was made to impose Islam on them. Only after the expulsion of the Crusaders from the country, did the majority of the inhabitants start to adopt the Arabic language and the Muslim faith – and they were the forefathers of most of today’s Palestinians.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

    1. Chris Purdef

      The Crusades were partly in the name of land pursuit and utilized non-Christian elements. The Crusades destroyed Constantinople a Christian Empire, and many more Orthodox Christians than it did Muslims or Jews. Like the fine lady Doctore said, it wasn’t that cut and dry.

      How about some of you folks stop reading your Western based literature and your minds a bit. It’s not enough to just say: “I’m rational, a free thinker, open minded, tolerant.”

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  10. Bottomline

    This is all about 1st Amendment Rights! Freedom of Religion and for some Freedom from Religion! So let them build the Mosque!

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 4

    1. Mike Jaeger

      The buzz… Conserving many cultures, liberty, and justice while opposing empire building and tyranny from monopolies is a big job. Democrats and Republicans had better decide soon to save America. Will America stay surrendered to the few families who now own her… endless wars, endless conflicts, propaganda, entertainment and corruption is all they produce… this is all they know. I support a Free Web Press, and I fight for a free America. Is Ron Paul the real leader in America ? More web coverage on Ron Paul than any other congressman. http://www.freewebpress.com – Ron Paul is featured on the front page.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

  11. David A Morse

    Cyrus the Great, a Muslim King, figures in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) as the patron and deliverer of the Jews.

    He is mentioned twenty-three times by name and alluded to several times more. From these statements it appears that Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, was the monarch under whom the captivity of the Jews ended, for in the first year of his reign he was prompted by God to make a decree that the temple in Jerusalem should be rebuilt and that such Jews as cared to might return to their land for this purpose.

    Moreover, he showed his interest in the project by sending back with them the sacred vessels which had been taken from the temple and a considerable sum of money with which to buy building materials.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

    1. william ridenour

      This is ridiculous.
      Cyrus was an old Testament king of Babylon, who in 638 BC allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem—over a thousand years before Mohammed was born in the late seventh century AFTER CHRIST and that great nihilism called Islam rose from the Arabian desert to spread itself by means of conquest from Syria to Spain.
      You don’t know what you’re talking about, moron.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

      1. Chris Purdef

        I hear you William. It would help if some of our “religious experts” read books on Christian History written by agnostics.

        Sort of defeats the purpose. But I’d like to continue reading the posts on this forum and beyond and compare the so-called “hatred” against a particular faith. I bet we’d find the results interesting.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    2. Mark Fey

      @David A Morse is joking of course, no rational person in command of facts (or an internet access) can believe the Cyrus of the old Testament was in any way a Muslim.

      His posting was obviously meant to be humorous.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  12. Freedom From Religion

    I don’t understand why all the hate is focused on Muslims. The evangelical Christians that are already entrenched in the US have perverted and destroyed everything that the Republican party once stood for. Evangelical Christianity is a pyramid scheme of the highest order where money bilked from the uneducated poor and middle class is funneled into campaigns of hate and control. They want to take away our constitutionally protected freedoms and outlaw anything and anyone that doesn’t fit in with their narrow biblical view of the world. If you believe in the freedoms guaranteed to you as a citizen of the united states, you should really think twice about who the real enemy is.

    Report this comment

    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 11

  13. BF2inNYC

    jesse – surely you know “teabaggers” can’t spell ;-)

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8

  14. David A Morse

    The fact that Americans in the name of Jesus took the land of Native Americans proves my point. We have never been the shining city that many claim. We have done much evil in Jesus name. Read your Bible and then tell me that your faith is really peaceful. All faithful people preach that their faith is THE true faith.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 4

    1. Cerebellum

      “The fact that Americans in the name of Jesus took the land of Native Americans proves my point.”

      Huh? What point? That people will make excuses to justify horrible acts (even when the actual cause of such acts has nothing to do with the ideals or beliefs they profess and are, in fact, a product of greed and hunger for political power)? This just in: the sky is blue and the sun shines.

      Also in the name of Christianity:

      -People struggled to free the Native peoples from slavery.
      -Return their land
      -End violent conflict between them and the colonists
      -and so on….

      Batolome de las Casas, Friar Antonio de Montesinos, Domingo de Mendoza, etc, etc, etc

      “All faithful people preach that their faith is THE true faith.”

      Once again…so? Everybody who believes in an ideal or an ideology or a worldview believes athat their idea is THE one true ideal which can save the world and promotes it as such. For example, I’m an Agnostic and a liberal. I believe that my position is the most logical and I will shout it from the roof tops. That does not mean that I will not tolerate someone who does not agree . Same thing with religious folk. Most of them believe that they have the one true faith, will preach it as the one true faith, but will not harm or even bother someone who does not share their belief. In fact, you will find that most (both religious and non-religious) people will be just fine with you being you and at most would just use it as an opportunity to open dialogue with a willing partner.

      People have killed in the name of everything that has been named. One could easily accuse Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Jews, Pagans (and so on) of every crime you could name. But as you can see such crimes are not limited to a single group, but are the crimes of humanity as a whole.

      …and for every Jacobin executioner, every European Slave Trader, every Al-Qaeda operative, there were/are many, many more Atheists, Christians, and Muslims who stand against them.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

  15. Ted Miller

    to GB On September 13, 2001, WND published a commentary by Anthony C. LoBaido regarding the September 11 attacks on New York City and Washington, D.C., two days earlier. In his column, LoBaido outlined what he regarded as the moral depravity of America in general and New York in particular, asking whether, “God (has) raised up Shiite Islam as a sword against America.”[19] Commentators Virginia Postrel of Reason magazine and James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal criticized LoBaido and Joseph Farah for the piece and called for columnists Hugh Hewitt and Bill O’Reilly to sever their ties with WND, prompting Farah to respond with a column of his own explaining that the article did not reflect the viewpoint of WND, and that it, like most other commentary pieces, had not been reviewed before being published

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    1. GB

      So you’re saying the events listed didn’t happen, yes?

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  16. jesse

    courageous!

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    1. Robert Gosney

      Nah,
      Just more demagoguery!

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  17. Amar

    there are only a handful of bold and honest politicians remaining. Ron you are one and also Joe Biden in the whole of America Politics, not that you two don’t have some lapses but you are genuine in your mistakes. God bless your honesty.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5

    1. Chris Purdef

      Ron Paul and Joe Biden in the same class. Now there’s something I wouldn’t believe, even if I read it.

      And look at ALL those thumbs up! Yes, this is definitely a Campaign for Liberty!

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  18. Lorie

    The reason people are up in arms about the location is really because of the failure of government. Reason A) the Burlington Coat Factory was condemned after 9/11 because of the damage sustained to the building [landing gear from one of the crashed through the roof of the building] and B) the building was used as a temporary morgue just after. If the NYC, NY State and the US Government had handled this properly, the location would be now a national landmark or have a historical status. Now we are mad that this ‘sacred’ ground could be used for anything but a historical site.

    I have great respect for Ron Paul and his work. Government at all levels is broken. The ineptness at all levels of government, 9 years after 9/11, should be a glaring reminder to all of us that WE have not done the work that is required of us. The only reason our government is allowed to get away with everything it has and in addition Ground Zero is still not rebuilt or rezoned properly is because Americans have allowed it to happen. Now we are angry. But what have we been doing for the last 9 years? Looking for the government to get it done? They never will.

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

  19. DD

    What most people don’t realize is that a mosque is not just a traditional worship center. They are training facilities, and are also used to store weapons. This was told to me by a Muslim who once trained for Al Qieda, but converted to Christianity and is now on the run. Islam is not a peaceful religion. Read the Kuran! Look at places in Europe. They come in and take over. And they’re trying to do it here now. The idea of a Mosque near Ground Zero is an affront to all who lost their lives that frightful day. And it wasn’t Saudi Arabia who attacked us – it was Islam, the religion of Muslims. Now how peaceful do they sound to you? Convert or we’ll kill you. That’s in the Kuran.

    Report this comment

    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 36

    1. jesse

      its spelled koran, not kuran. tell me, have you read it?

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3

    2. albie

      Asswipe. That’s what you are.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  20. jj

    Wow…this is truly the most erudite and lucid response I’ve heard so far from a major political player. Thank you, sir.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2

  21. Rick

    Property rights ????

    What about the “property rights” of the native americans/aborigines ????

    The country was founded in lying, murdering and genocide …

    History has been re-written by the elites till the average american knows nothing about the real history of their country ….. and most don’t care ……

    Paul is right about the true motives of the rumours ….. its just business as usual (corporations …. in this case the military-industrial complex ….. trying to justify the continuing expropriation of working peoples’ money under the guise of security ….. money that could have stayed in people’s pockets or been put to use for constructive purposes) …

    Out country is in need of radical change and yet all our resources and the tax monies of american workers are being used to support the corrupt status quo ……… (bankers, oligopolies,etc) ….

    Reason and scientific facts have no sway in this country ….. only moneyed interests …..

    Criminals have been in control of the country for decades and the public is more interested in being entertained (read distracted) than they are in freedom and justice ….

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  22. Save the USA

    Ron Paul will Be our Next President of the USA! Freedom Will Prevail!
    End The Fed
    End The Drug War
    End US Imperialism
    Legalize Freedom
    Ron Paul 2012!

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5

  23. Christine

    I am a christian. I have varying political opinions — depending upon the subject of disagreement. In some I am conservative, some liberal, some ‘libertarian’, and some middle of the road.

    I believe that Ron Paul’s statement is ‘right-on’ concerning this subject. I am not a person with PhD’s in theology – Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. However, I’ve studied enough to realize that these three groups of believers ALL BELIEVE IN THE GOD OF ABRAHAM. We have many different cultures, many different governments, many different forms of worship, many different languages, and many different heritages. But we all believe in ONE GOD. Considering how many differences that individuals have from others, it is rational to accept the reality that it is virtually impossible for one single religion to possibly meet the needs of every person in the world. I realize that many muslims are not aware of this, but so are many, many christians (I have met some). I suspect that more of the jewish faith, percentage wise, are aware of this similarity than the rest of us.

    Thank you Mr. Paul!!!!

    Report this comment

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 6

    1. TJN

      All semitic religions are a curse.

      Report this comment

      Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 17

      1. Sinkfish

        No more than all oriental religions are a blight on free market enterprise, and no more than all atheist ideologies are the bane of human dignity.

        See? Your sweeping generalization is now revealed for the worthless tripe it is.

        Only by working together and accepting the differences of others can we survive. As Christine shows, the members of different faiths can work as one for both the betterment of the human species and to strengthen their spirituality.

        Can you? Or would you rather share the table with other bigots like Fred Phelps, Osama Bin Laden, Fidel Castro, and the rest?

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

  24. charlie

    Personal attitudes and political motivations do not give anyone the right to deny constitutional rights and inherent freedoms to any idividual or group. I AM a combat veteran and it wounds me deeply to see this charade of sensationalism which spits in the face of everything myself and those like me fought and bled to defend. But we are just as guilty as they, voting strictly out of party loyalty or not voting at all… failing ourselves and future generations by becoming complacent and not DEMANDING accountability from our elected officials, not doing our research. They behave like prima donnas and overgrown children because WE LET THEM.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 0

  25. GB

    Our beloved Constitution won’t be worth anything if a certain group out-populates us and takes over.

    Report this comment

    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 34

  26. Robert Gosney

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 43

    1. lg

      where did muslims dance in the street? I’m in NY and didn’t see that, but I did hear the one about the dancing Israelis.

      Report this comment

      Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 5

      1. Esther

        Get a grip – the Muslims were loving 9-11: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.asp

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  27. Ted Miller

    “Another fact you seem to have overlooked, the muslims put up their ‘victory super mosques’ over areas they have conquered, which is what this is.” Where does this come from? Can anyone tell us where this has occurred? I totally agree with Ron Paul. Palin, Gingrich etal are not defending our constitution. I believe they are pushing their politics on us. Someone said that they are doing it for Political gain, I agree with that assessment. I live in Nevada and have been a registered Democrat most of my adult life (I am 78) and I believe that Senator Reid is using this issue for his own Political career. That being said, however, I certainly will not support his opponent, Ms. Angle. I will not vote for “none of the above” either as I believe that to be a cop out. I will pick the lessor of two persons, Sen. Reid. I also believe that most of the folks opposed to this Cultural Center, not a Mosque, are reacting on emotion only and not seeing the full picture.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 28 Thumb down 9

    1. GB
  28. fauxpopuli

    “However, why is it that we are supposed to be so sensitive and understanding of the Muslims? Do you think they ever have or ever will be sensitive and understanding of Christians, Buddhists, Jews, or any other religion?”

    1) Yet another example of confusing “All Muslims” with “Radical Muslims”

    2) Right, why would we ever want to hold ourselves to a higher standard than Islamic extremists?

    “But America needs to get to the heart of the issue sooner or later: will we grant religious freedom to this ideology/religion/cause that at its very core demands the suppression of freedoms?”

    Some of you guys are really having trouble with this whole “difference between mainstream and radical Islam” thing. That aside, the answer to your exceedingly-flawed question is “Yes. First Amendment. Look it up sometime.”

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 5

    1. disc3rn

      hey thanks, yep I looked up “first amendment” and sure enough it was under the constitution of a Democracy. A democracy where church is separated from state.

      So what I really want to know is: what freedoms should be granted to a theocratic Islam (from which the religion can not be separated by definition)?
      If you want to focus on the difference of how people live out their religion, “radical or mainstream” then you are missing the point. In a theocracy it is not about what the mainstream/ majority believe. It is about what the leaders (ie the Koran and hadiths) dictate.

      I just think America’s going to have to deal with this sooner or later

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 10

    2. AK 1

      Yes, Muslims can be understanding. Look at Qutar, Bahrain, UAE, Syria, Eqypt & Jordon where there are both Wester & Eastern Cathloic churches, granted there not treated well but they are there. Now look how Turkey is treating non Muslims & your point is well made. Even Isreal is not well known for it’s treatment of non Jews. They can’t even decide the right path to citizenship, since you must be a Jew before you can apply. In Iraq the only good Catholic is a dead Catholic. Neither G.W. or this president has made any attempt to change that reality. In India the Hindu’s go out & destroy christian & muslim vill’s, but Christianity is not guilt free, let’s not forget Northern Ireland.

      Report this comment

      Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

  29. disc3rn

    There may be a lot of “grand distraction… grand opportunity … Or grandiose demagoguery” going on around the issue; I don’t really know

    But America needs to get to the heart of the issue sooner or later: will we grant religious freedom to this ideology/religion/cause that at its very core demands the suppression of freedoms?

    I am frightened to read the numerous comments here that proudly support “constitutional rights” and “religious freedoms” for this religion that abuses rights and denies freedoms whenever it is given the chance.

    Honestly I don’t know what to do about the wonderful people who love America and liberty, yet call themselves Muslim. I have nothing against them, but I think they are either blatantly lying or sadly just as ignorant as the rest of us to the core agenda of Islam.

    If America wants to retain its wonderful constitution and its exemplary freedom of religion then this issue must be addressed immediately. are you listening Ron?

    Report this comment

    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 38

    1. Travis

      What freedom would we have if we only allowed religions that endorsed freedom?
      I’ll be honest- I don’t know much about Islam, so I reserve judgment till I take the time to read through their quran.
      But even if someone wants to endorse Communism in the US they have the right to do so, I will just disagree with them.

      Report this comment

      Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 2

    2. Roteplex

      Muslim is not a synonym for a terrorist but rather an oppressed minority. Throughout history, minorities have been constantly trampled over by oppressors who use propaganda to fuel their political machines. Hitler killed Jews because he would gain loads of support from German public, they all looked for a scapegoat to blame things on, and the Jewish minority was the perfect answer. To say that an entire religion and all who follow it are irreparable bastards, because of the actions of an extremely small number of them, is the core ideology behind racism. It is pitiful that even America can succumb to racism in this modern age, but it is truly significant that true political heroes like Ron Paul stand for liberty when there is absolutely nothing to gain, but to put out the truth. Ron Paul is a hero.

      Report this comment

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

      1. disc3rn

        Dear Sir,
        Please take a look at Islam worldwide before you call them a minority and compare the issue to Jews and the holocaust.

        I agree that Americans need to be diligently careful to avoid racism toward these wonderful people (the majority of mainstream muslims), but in doing so let us not be blind toward its grander agenda. I think Ron Paul does want to stand for liberty, but I respectfully request he approach the subject with a deeper understanding of liberty’s enemies.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 9

  30. Don

    Over a billions Muslims DID NOT attack America! How can anyone who believes in the principles of democracy and freedom deny a class of people (Muslim Americans) their rights guaranteed by our Constitution? Ron Paul is RIGHT ON!

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 36 Thumb down 9

    1. Dfens

      Several million Japanese did not attack us at Pearl Harbor too. Damn our unenlightenment! Why did we ever attack them? Where was Ron Paul? Ron Paul lead us. We are lost without your wisdom.

      Report this comment

      Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 30

      1. lg

        Japan is a country. Islam is a religion. God you people are stupid.

        Report this comment

        Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 29 Thumb down 5

      2. Stanford Law

        Japan is a country and Islam is a religion. Please understand the difference unless you also think that the United States is the same thing as Christianity.

        When a country declares war on your country it’s pretty obvious. Claiming that 19 people represents a religion of over a billion is pretty damn ignorant.

        Report this comment

        Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 31 Thumb down 6

      3. Dfens

        What was I thinking when I wrote that? It must have been the gas. I’m not going to blame Mexico, but… Well, anyway, surpress what I said. Clearly that’s what Libertarians are best at.

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7

    2. disc3rn

      Yes, he’s right on.
      Democracy, freedom, constitutional rights must be granted… to those who will embrace them.

      Research the word “theocracy”. Americans aren’t too familiar with it, yet.

      Report this comment

      Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

      1. StanfordLaw

        How about researching why the Puritans came over from England? Guess you don’t know too familiar about the founding of our own country…..

        Report this comment

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4

  31. Antonio Donato

    What an excellent point of view from Ron Paul. As America becomes more divided people like Ron Paul will stand out. Due to this issue, America has become extremely ugly. It is not a coincidence that the political right and Harry Reid (who I feel is feeling extreme pressue) are looking hard at this “majority” of people who oppose the mosque for votes. In their quest for short term success, via the November elections, they are sacrificing their credibility in the long run. Soon America will realize that the politicians who are leading this opposition of constitutional rights are not the politicians we are looking for. I would compare these politicians to celebrities counting twitter followers except they are counting votes. It’s all they care about. They just want to feel right by having a majority agree with them, even if that majority is ignorant. Thanks Ron for being true

    Report this comment

    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6

  32. Nils Montan

    I have been more or less a liberal all my life although as I have gotten older I have seen the wisdom of some conservative stances on many issues.

    That was until this whole trumped up “Mosque at Ground Zero” thing was brought down upon us by Fox News and Gingrich and Palin. Ove the last two weeks my blood starting boiling. Don’t these people understand that they are acting fundamentally in a un-American and, by the way, distinctly un-Christian fashion? Apparently not.

    I was in New York on 9/11 and went through a lot, although, thank God, I was not hurt. Since that time, I have not had a single conversation with anybody, liberal or conservative, about “Ground Zero” until this whole fake controversy was started to garner votes for Republican Candidates and eye-balls for Fox News.

    One of my friends told me about Congressman Paul’s statement and I must say that reading it almost brought tears to my eyes. Finally, a politician who will stand up for what is right – in this instance – and right for America.

    Bravo Congressman Paul.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 35 Thumb down 10

  33. Scott

    I am not a dyed-in-the-wool Ron Paul supporter, but he is always right when it comes to standing up for the Constitution. Religious freedom is a core principle of our Nation, it is vitally important if we hope to continue increasing liberty in our country (this from a non-believer in any religion). We can emulate Dr. Paul’s practical passion where our Civil Liberties are involved.

    I disagree with Ron on many big issues, but none is more important than this.

    Report this comment

    Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 25 Thumb down 7

  34. George Miller

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 49

    1. lg

      Mr. Miller, you are repeating the same talking points I hear on Fox News and other websites opposing the mosque.

      Why should we concern ourselves about what they do in mecca? This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and we are better than that.

      Please turn off your tv, open your mind and do your own research – I suggest you start by googling “Saudi prince Al-Waleed bin Talal”.

      Report this comment

      Highly rated. What do you think? Thumb up 26 Thumb down 6

  35. Norm

    Well, Ron, this essay exposes a fatal ignorance of Islam on your part. As a result, you have just lost the support of myself and my people. Too bad, because we otherwise thought you had something worthwhile to offer us.

    Report this comment

    Hotly debated. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 36

1 5 6 7 8 9 13

Leave a Reply