228 responses to “Ron Paul: End the Fed, Legalize Competing Currencies”

  1. Suiboshi

    He is for gay rights. You can easily find videos in which he says so.

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  2. Don Cheech

    ron paul is not a real libertarian, how can you be a libertarian and against gay rights? FUCK YOU RON PAUL

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  3. KingofTheMafia

    ron paul is not a real libertarian, how can you be a libertarian and against gay rights? FUCK YOU RON PAUL

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  4. UBSCARED

    Apparently he has never hear of Gresham's law which states bad money drives out the good money. Competing currencies is another one of Hayek's discredited ideas that Ron Paul embraces.

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  5. ChrisAus

    We are Australian's, and if we could vote from Australia, we would vote for RON PAUL as USA President in 2012 !!!! ... Ron's passion for his country is nothing short of outstanding... We have followed this man's political journey via the Internet for nearly 2 years, and it is clear to see that he is a brilliantly educated people person... he's not in the spotlight for the glory, but for the good of ALL mankind - Bravo Paul - You have all our international votes from down under :))

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  6. ChrisAus

    We are Australian's, and if we could vote from Australia, we would vote for RON PAUL as USA President in 2012 !!!! ... Ron's passion for his country is nothing short of outstanding... We have followed this man's political journey via the Internet for nearly 2 years, and it is clear to see that he is a brilliantly educated people person... he's not in the spotlight for the glory, but for the good of ALL mankind - Bravo Paul - You have all our international votes from down under :))

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  7. Sameerkhan7805

    He is Great man ..Loin ,,, god bless you ...love you paul

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  8. MLP88

    2:08 "You can't have a war state".

    End of Story. Never happen. Never. And never comes up in this typical fantasy interview.

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  9. mjs1231

    Sounds crystal clear to me.

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  10. kingplatoedwinkaku

    RONNNNNNNNNNNIEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNNNNNIEEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNNNIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNNIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE there are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. John adams 1735-1826
    4:10 " A BIG DIFFERENCE YOU CANT PRINT THE SILVER TICKET WITHOUT HAVING THE SILVER TO BACK IT UP"

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  11. kingplatoedwinkaku

    RONNNNNNNNNNNIEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNNNNNIEEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNNNIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNNIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE there are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. John adams 1735-1826

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  12. kingplatoedwinkaku

    RONNNNNNNNNNNIEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNNNNNIEEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNNNIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNNIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE RONNNNNNNIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE

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  13. Jake

    To deny the exponential growth of debt by interest cuts to the very core and credibility of monetary theories. If the exponential growth can be proven, then equally, Austrian and Keynesian theories are dis-proven. Economic theories hide the fact that an interest based money system is usury by definition and neither Austrian nor Keynesian theories are sustainable. Both systems create bankruptcies and defaults while enriching banks at the expense of the people through interest.

    The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand. Once you understand (M P E) supporting anything else is economic suicide!! The solution to your fate is M P E, ….but will you listen?

    http://tnsradio.com/?cat=11

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    1. Citizen

      Yes Jake,
      I'm listening and I don't agree with your MPE agenda. Your Mr. "spooky dude" Montange is little more than another fringe element (Charles Manson) looking for converts. Don't be fooled, Montange isn't a monetary guru and he hasn't yet faced a real debate in a REAL public forum.
      I'd suggest that he sends his MPE THESIS to the WSJ and the Congress Financial Oversight Committee for review, maybe they will listen.

      And NO, Austrian Economics has not been tried and dis-proven. You can't "disprove" a historical fact with rhetoric. Austrian's don't make up new theories, like MPE, they observe the facts and use them to predict how the same behavior will render the same results.

      Good Luck on the MPE stuff, how many converts do you guys have now... 4 or 5??

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  14. SuperJerkyBoys

    Ron Paul makes Obama look like a moron.

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  15. 999silverrush

    Your making this all way to complicated, nothing changes. Go look at a hundred year graph of prices and looks what happened after they took us off the gold standard in 1971 and you will see all about inconvience, headache, and more importantly wealth destruction. Fiat money forces people who didnt need to know anything about changing monetary environment to become speculators as THEY HAVE to because of debasement, if anything its fiat that makes things way more difficult, ask Zimbabwe

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  16. 999silverrush

    We already have hundreds of competing currencies worldwide. You are making it way more complicated then it is, there is no "hedging of decisions". You don't actually use gold in transactions lol, gold backed money looks, feels, and acts the same way, theres just stuff printed on the bill etc, same security measures, the only difference is that prices remain the same over time.

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  17. jpusar

    How the hell would multiple currencies help our situation? So we'd have hedges on multiple monetary systems based on certain commodities. That's like having to hedge every decision you make? Should I hold money on Silver or Gold? SILVER! Aw crap. Silver's down and gold's up. Now my loaf of bread costs my week salary because the supermarket uses gold.

    There's a good reason why markets are tied to the economies of the region they're based in. There'd be chaos otherwise...

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    1. Citizen

      Currency based on Legal Weights and Measures would not need to have printed denominations to have a globally recognized value.
      You would pay 20 ounces of gold for a new car, or 1 silver ounce for a nice diner out for the family.

      Governments use "denominated" values to FOOL THE MASSES into believing there is some magic value in there Fiat Paper. There is NOT.

      Government could still issue gold and silver certificates as long as they remain redeemable in full weight of bullion gold / silver.

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  18. staceyqfan

    Pay the principal on the national debt then declare the interest as a conflict of interest in the national well being, traitors to put its own family in such a position

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  19. jw16e4

    Ron Paul for President!

    Vote 2012!!

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  20. JesusisComingKJV1611

    I hope Ron Paul runs again for president in 2012. I'll probably either vote for him or vote for Chuck Baldwin one. Ron Paul, Libertarians, and the Constitution Party are the only ones who can bring the Government BACK to a Limited, Constitutional Government.

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  21. 8messa

    Hey, FOXNEWS, don't make it too obvious that all your reporters represent the very things we the people are bringing to an end: You are OWNED MEDIA, everything you say sounds like a fat oil pig.
    Did this idiot actually suggest "tying the dollar to, let's say, oil or gasoline for example" < --- ???
    Very Un-American, shame on you once again, FoxNews.
    You really do elicit vomit from we the people.
    You can feel your ways ending, can't you?

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  22. Douglas

    A properly executed US Constitutional Currency system of Issuance is supposed to be governed by the People for the People. This is a Humane Interaction of Necessity, not a Mathematical Formula. Mathematical Formula can help show the State of a System but cannot predicted or establish the ongoing needs of a People.

    When a currency is properly issued into society under the US Constitution it represents ALL the Constituents involved. Thus safeguarding improper issuance, Fractional Reserve Banking, and provides only the necessary amount of currency needed to properly expand the Peoples Economy.

    This exposition of mine will naturally stop over production and over consumption which will result in a balanced economy without inflation or deflation.

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  23. soulfeltart

    My man Ron Paul OWNS on all the haters every single time! He brings Truth out and valueable knowledge. He calls for PEACE and FREEDOM, and his courage to step up and really educate is absolutely amazing.
    I don't trust politics, smoke & mirrors for waaaay tooo looooong.
    Everyone's got their own opinions, i know
    But Ron Paul is my leader/teacher, messiah, sensei- all that
    A king without a crown- I got his back! 2012

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  24. Jake

    Hello to all,

    I hope you didn't miss Saturday's first broadcast on ¨Mathematically Perfected Economy¨ by Mike Montagne. We were still taking calls to the wee hours of the morning after the show. I've arranged at least for now, for show archives to be hosted at ZShare. The link to listen to the first broadcast is:

    http://www.zshare.net/audio/820088191e550288/

    If you really want to succeed in getting ALL banks out, it's time to start going viral. I leave it to you to spread this as you see fit.

    Warm regards,
    Jack

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  25. Jake

    I repost this reply i gave to Citizen in the other forum:

    Citizen, as i said you clearly have no idea what MPE stands for. I will try to explain it as simple as possible.

    MPE is a currency (our public medium of exchange) not subject to interest and backed by our labor/production/products or anything else we are capable of.

    That´s it.

    Anyone objecting to this is either a banker, or just plain stupid.

    Moreover, I think that you guys are making the same set of MISTAKEN assumptions, about Mathematically Perfected Economy, that many are making, BECAUSE OF THE NAME.

    Here is what people think: When they hear the name—Mathematically Perfected Economy— visions of a Hungarian Central Planner enter into their head. …But that’s just a misintepretation/false assumption.

    What I think has happened here, is that you guys have made the same mistakes that many people once made. Well. Ignorance, once cured, returns for no good reason. So, here is what Mathematically Perfected Economy REALLY IS:

    (1) Principals for loans, are created out of thin air, as debt. …Our current monetary regime does this anyway.
    (2) But the loans are interest-free. …Why would you pay somebody big bucks to do something that you could do for yourself, for nothing?
    (3) The ELIXUR: Loans are paid back, and the money is RETIRED from the circulation, in a time-based manner which is the mirror-image of the depreciation of the product. Why? So there can be no inflation or deflation. …And, yeah, I know that stuff happens.
    (4) Otherwise, there is NO government intervention in markets! No central planning. No regulations or manipulations or market distortions—-the invisible hand rule the day.

    Here is a simple example: A car dealer decides to lend you money for a car which free markets have decided is worth $20,000. And this car will last for 10 years. This car will depreciate in value in a linear, straight-line fashion—-that is, it will lose, on average, $2,000 in value per year.

    (1) $20,000 are created out of thin air as debt.
    (2) The car dealer recieves $20,000—-a trade of equal measures of production in exchange for equal measures of production. Why? Because the invisible hand says so. That’s why.
    (3) $2,000 per year are retired from the circulation as the loan is paid back untill, in ten years, ALL $20,000 have been retired from the circulation.

    The result: After year 1, there is $18,000 left in circulation, and the car is worth $18,000. After year 5, there is $10,000 in circulation, and the car is worth $10,000. And so on and so on.

    Get it? Under Mathematically Perfected Economy, (1) There is always enough money created out of thin air to cause full employment—-there is always full employment. (2) But, at the same time, there is always, on average, an inflation rate of ZERO. (3) And there is no more business cycle.

    Well, now you know. And you guys are making the same exact mistakes that many people originally made.

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  26. Jake

    The libertarian austrian ideology is so self contradictory that it can both oppose ‘big’ government and support fascism at the same time.

    The fundamental element of Libertarianism and also Austrian economics is that everything ought to be privately owned. If an individual or group of wealthy landowners owned all the land in America and rented and leased it to everyone else and imposed the exact same conditions that the state imposes and had ‘charges’ instead of taxes, then the libertarians would have absolutely no problem with supporting such a system. They would merely call the ‘laws’ ‘free contracts’ and the taxes ‘service charges’

    Libertarian austrians are in favour of absolute tyranny and dictatorship, just as long as it’s a private individual or corporation doing the oppressing, and not a democratic nation state, even where the outcomes are exactly the same.

    A libertarian world dominated by an association of very large corporations would function very very similarly to the fascist states of the 20th century.

    Friedman was a huge supporter of Pinochet’s economic policies, he engineered most of them, either directly or indirectly through his students who were dominating chilean economic policy.

    He endorsed the military coup that got Pinochet into power by implying that if Allende had not been overthrown there would be torture imprisonment and political repression in Chile, he said this while pinochet was doing those very things.

    Another on von mises’ proteges, Hayek was another huge supporter of pinochet, Hayek used the fascist dictatorship as the model way all governments should behave to introduce the kinds of economic reforms necessary for a libertarian utopia. Hayek wrote in a letter to the london times saying he had “not been able to find a single person even in much maligned Chile who did not agree that personal freedom was much greater under Pinochet than it had been under Allende.”

    Both Friedman and Hayek believed Pinochet was just a stepping stone towards a libertarian free market economy.

    And that ladies and gentleman is what austrians and libertarians really stand for.

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    1. Citizen

      Hello Jake,

      I strongly disagree with your analysis of Libertarians and Austrian Economics. While I'm not well versed on the Pinochet regime, I can most certainly say that AE is not in favor of STATE sponsored TYRANNY in any form, which Pinochet was well known for. Hayek vehemently criticized the NAZI regime as a STATE take over of resources to serve a maniacal dictator hell bent on a New World Order.

      Libertarians likewise would rail against both a State or Industrial Monopoly of resources. You MPE minions are simply trading one slave master for another "benevolent dictator" in the form of Michael Montagne, and his expletive laced responses are indicative of his malice toward non-conformists.

      Every "Centrally Planned" economy throughout history has FAILED MISERABLY. They give the appearance of success for a brief period when they first REDISTRIBUTE capital wealth of the enterprising entrepreneurs, but that quickly deteriorates into a malaise of bureaucratic incompetence when the political elites start bickering over the shares they want for their special interests.
      The consistent result is that precious and valuable resources are Mal-Invested,
      BECAUSE bureaucrats always MISMANAGE OTHER PEOPLES MONEY.

      Government run enterprise, FED, Fannie, Freddie, Amtrak, Post Office, Health Care, etc. have a long and inglorious history of ABJECT FAILURE!

      I'm sorry Jake, but you are totally wrong on this argument!

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    2. Jason

      Jake,

      If you want to philosophize about the evils of the Libertarian party you're on the wrong site. I'm sure you're aware that Dr. Paul ran as a Libertarian for President in 1988 and that his views stem from the Libertarian perspective. Riddle me this: how big and corrupt does our federal government have to become before, in your world, it's time for a double dose of Libertarian trimming? In my world, we passed that point decades ago, but I'm curious as to how domineering you feel our government should be and where the line drawn. Are you arguing that all of the evils committed on our Constitution, the Fed, 16th and 17th Amendments, DOE, USDOE, EPA, DHS, FDA, DOA, DOC, czars, (on and on and on) are taking this country in the right direction?

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    3. David

      Okay im responding to both citizen and jasons posts here.

      Well unfortunately all that were getting here is more lies in defense of something which cannot work to anyone's benefit except a banks.

      I do disagree with lumping the term Libertarian together with Austrian Economics as Ben Franklin was the first true libertarian and he was not an Austrian Economist but instead actually enacted the solution many of us are seeking in order to secure for each member of the population the right to benefit from the benefits which they themselves are capable of creating. This association is as much a result of Austrians associating themselves with some pretended Libertarian Philosophy as it is from Jake lumping the two together in one reference here. I've used the term Neo-Austrian Libertarian as opposed to simply Libertarian, so we need to establish a difference somehow as the two are not the same and have absolutely nothing in common except for the fact that Austrian Economics has managed to fool some Libertarians into believing in a false religion which by all of the evidence established here exists to defeat the very purposes which the Libertarian philosophy would wish to accomplish.

      In terms of Citizens last post on this subject along with the fact that no one has been able to answer the question which has been proposed repeatedly about preventing the Rothschilds from consuming all of the hard currency within 10 years, the subject is finished. The purpose of Austrian Economics and its source have been clearly demonstrated, are completely indefensible, and the posts are going into circulation among the American population who already have pretty much figured out what it is already and will not accept the deception in any way shape or form, so it's no longer even a valid topic for discussion, any more than maintaining the current Federal Reserve establishment could be as it all comes from and is motivated from the same place with the same end result.

      In terms or Citizen's post about centrally planned economies, again, this is an outright lie, as no one on here to my knowledge is proposing a centrally planned economy. All anyone is proposing is to allow the population to issue and manage their own means of trade so that they themselves can naturally generate a free private economy and enterprise system having control of their own simple means of exchange which they can manage in order to enable them to actually do this to the best of their ability. Hitler successfully used this concept as part of a centrally planned economy, Franklin just gave them this means of trade and did nothing else. Hitler was a slave master who's object was power, Franklin's purpose in life was to simply establish freedom and prosperity for his fellow man and he created the means to that prosperity for them as a public service through the colonial governments. The two are not mutually inclusive regardless of what Citizen would have us believe.

      In terms of Citizens statement about Centrally planned economies failing miserably, if this is instead in reference to the public issue and management of debt free public currencies, again, we have a will full and deliberate deception by the Austrian Theory in that they purposely omit the cause of the failure, which was switching over to finite currencies which could be controlled and monopolized by a few individuals, in other words resulting in the establishment of banking, or in the case of Franklin and the colonies they were simply outlawed by already established banks. Franklin and his contemporaries in the colonial governments did not manage anyone's money, nor did they engage in central planning of the economy, nor in any redistribution of wealth which the people had legitimately earned. They simply provided the population with a public means of trade so again, the two things are not mutually inclusive and any statement that they must be is simply another lie.

      These are Franklin's words on the matter:

      During a visit to Britain in 1763, The Bank of England asked Benjamin Franklin how he would account for the newfound prosperity in the colonies. Franklin replied.

      "That is simple. In the colonies we issue our own money. It is called 'Colonial Script'. We issue it in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers...In this manner, creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to no one."

      In response, the Bank of England influenced the British Parliament to put a stop to this activity. Under the Currency Act of 1764, King George III decreed that the Colonists cease printing their own money. The colonial script in circulation was to be exchanged at a two-to-one ratio with notes drawn from the Bank of England. This caused widespread unemployment and economic depression in the colonies.

      "In one year, the conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity ended, and a depression set in, to such an extent that the streets of the Colonies were filled with unemployed." (Benjamin Franklin)

      Citizen can call Franklin a liar if he wants to, but at the same time he would be completely dissassociating himself and his so called Libertarian Economic philosophy with the very founder of Libertarian philosophy, so which is it ?

      In terms of Jason's post, yes, you state very well the results and effects of big government: "Are you arguing that all of the evils committed on our Constitution, the Fed, 16th and 17th Amendments, DOE, USDOE, EPA, DHS, FDA, DOA, DOC, czars, (on and on and on) are taking this country in the right direction? What we need to understand here is why these things have come about. Every single one of the things listed here, is a direct result of banks, through bribery and corruption getting congress to abrogate their responsibility to supply and manage our public means of trade to them, giving the banks power through this means of trade to establish government in their service and if we are to accomplish anything at all, we do need to understand the cause of things they way they are today, instead of just railing against the consequences without understanding the solutions as the Austrian philosophy would have us do. In terms of whom this big government and these agencies exist to serve, i can give you a personal example to illustrate. One of the things i manufacture here is an advanced piece of medical technology and prior to putting it on the market i had to obtain FDA approval in order to do so. At the time the process was free and after several discussions with one of their engineers who understood the technology perfectly the process was done and it turned out to be very simple and easy as well. Once it was released on the market it scared the living shit out of the big medical corporations, and within one year, new fees and regulations were introduced to this process which currently make it absolutely impossible for anyone but a multi billion dollar bank sponsored corporation to ever release such technology on the market again. Who do these agencies and the big enormous Government intent on abrogating ever more freedoms for the sake of establishing power exist to serve ? It sure as hell isn't the interests of the people, and it sure as hell isn't the interests of Government either.

      Why does such abusive Government and these powerful abusive agencies exist in the first place ? Because banks have used their control of what should be our public currency to establish them in their service and make them so. How do we eliminate them ? Restore control of the public currency to Government so that private interests can no longer use it in order to establish Government against the interests of the people. How do we make sure that they wont try to do this again ? Kill all the banks, return what they have stolen from the people to the people and outlaw a criminal practice of theft and fraud so that they can no longer exist to try again.

      I am a Libertarian, Ben Franklin was a Libertarian and the personification of everything which any form of Libertarian philosophy could possibly represent. My purpose in being a Libertarian is to establish the maximum possible level of individual freedom for the American population under the terms established by the United States Declaration of Independence, along with the absolute right of each and every individual in America to enjoy the full benefit of the prosperity which each and every one of them is capable of creating which is something which has not existed since Franklin's time as well.

      Isn't it time that those who claim the title actually begin to think beyond the stupid emotion, assumption, lies and conjecture which i'm seeing here and actually apply their thought, reason and effort toward some real and tangible means of accomplishing these objectives, as opposed to simply trusting and believing in lies, theory and philosophy invented by the very enemies of these objectives in order to fool them into defeating their own declared purpose ?

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      1. Jason

        David,

        I agree with everything you said except for the elimination of local, decentralized banks which are forced to maintain 100% gold backing. It is fractional banking alone that gives the Fed the capability of creating all of the horrors mentioned. Without it, they would have no where near the choke hold they currently have on our society. Banks lose their power to control when they are forced to maintain the gold standard and are not authorized to conduct business with other countries on behalf of ours.

        We know that we can return to the gold (or silver) standard and virtually eliminate inflation. We will then be capable of bearing what we are told we earn, instead of some fictitious number that is good only for a matter of months before inflation takes effect. Eliminate inflation, fractional reserve banking, and any sort of central control over banks, and I believe that we will survive quite well. The Treasury is the only entity authorized to regulate our money supply, so that is a no brainer.

        I don't see eliminating interest as realistic or necessary, as it really isn't the problem. Inflation and creating money out of thin air are the root of the evil. The bottom line is that the Founders understood what would be attempted and they were absolutely right. All we have to do to fix the problem is to return to what was ratified by that large and diverse group of brilliant men and every state that existed in our original union. It's really as simple as that, and, conveniently, it is the law. The only remaining barrier is to help We the People understand that an Act or an Amendment does NOT take precedence over an Article, and that everything that has been done under that Act is illegal.

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        1. David

          Hi Jason;

          And thanks, i haven't seen you on here prior to your last few posts but i'm glad were establishing some common ground. We've been discussing the public currency thing on here for a long time so you've probably not seen what was going on 6 months of so ago, but check my post to Citizen and that should fill in some details as well.

          MPE is actually brand new on here and the first time i became aware if it was when Jake started posting about it several weeks ago. There's more about it that i need to understand for myself yet, but it is based on the two basic concepts which so many of us have already reasoned out on here as well, first use currency to facilitate trade and actually accomplish its useful function as opposed to regulating trade with currency which is the sheer idocy responsible for our current problems, and then simply keep it there and add to it as necessary so it can continue to do that, which necessitates it being done without banks.

          In terms of banking yes, we do need someone to provide the basic financial services for the population and every single one of us realizes that too and the inevitable conclusion is that the only way this can be done in any manner which will not corrupt the economy and destroy the means of trade, is to provide these services for ourselves as a public service through the same United States Treasury who is responsible for regulating our money supply so that they can actually do this effectively as well. Loved your statement on that BTW and we just need to actually do that to its full extent.

          In terms of securing Government by for and of the people, how better to do this than to put into the hands of our elected representatives the single and only thing which has been used to corrupt them against the the people ? You can't try to corrupt someone with something he can already do for himself.

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      2. Citizen

        I''m pressed for time here...
        But in response to your
        "preventing the Rothschilds from consuming all of the hard currency within 10 years"
        How or why would this happen???
        Consuming all the "hard currency", do you mean gold, silver, palladium, etc.
        OR
        are you talking the Swiss Franc, the Euro, or the US Dollar? Definitely not the Chinese Juan.

        I'm really beginning to think you and your MPE "gnome" friends are suffering from acute "bankafobia"

        The mere fact that MPE would prohibit any form of private banking is scary on its surface not to mention the implications that any group or corporation who sought to accumulate capital in the form of savings or even attract capital by stock offerings would be subject to assault by the Interest Gestapo

        I agree that the FED is a Rothschild style fractional reserve banking theft operation...
        BUT
        There is banking that can be based on 100% reserves and non-debt based currency.
        Like a Silver Standard currency with Silver Certificates payable in silver.

        Your Up!

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        1. David

          HI Citizen;

          Lol well it doesn't matter what we try to use as currency if any of the conventional hard currencies the Rothschild's will have more, loan an equal amount of it into circulation and in 10 years, at 10 % interest consume all of it, without a central banks, and without fractional reserve, so we just cant win with banking. They've spent hundreds of years stripping the world of any form of hard currencies it had and they can do this with anything you use.

          Of course we have bank phobia, so does the American population, look at what they have done and i'm amazed that anyone cannot have it at this point. Per Jason's comment "The Treasury is the only entity authorized to regulate our money supply, so that is a no brainer. " so why the hell not put the full management of whatever currency into the hands of the treasury for public benefit, its the United States Currency after all. I'm not as adamantly opposed to interest as MPE is either, and i would love it under one set of terms, loans of the public currency to the population by the population itself (IE those elected to manage it) and using the interest to fund essential public services in lieu of taxes, again Franklin's idea, fantastic. This also guarantees that every nickel in interest will come right back into circulation to continue to generate trade instead of being progressively used to buy up control of government and ownership in public corporations (using their power to shut down independent business on competition with them) to the extent where banks own and control all of our resources and production as well. As I've said many times, i've seen the end result of this before and no matter how small they start eventually they will.

          No one is talking about prohibiting private investment of funds, venture capital, real estate, etc, but let it be for the purpose of establishing something useful which can actually benefit the economy, which real investment always does. Let it be at risk, without collateral other than agreed upon shares in the enterprise, and put the secured loans in the hands of the people themselves.

          Banking returns absolutely nothing of tangible value to the population in return for what it takes, so why allow it to progressively bleed off our means of trade and once again give it the chance to establish the power it already has when we can so easily provide these services for ourselves, simpler, better, cheaper and easier ? Every town in America has a United States Post office and its still my method of choice for shipping on things they will handle, above all others in fact, as its an extremely efficient and reliable service. I see absolutely nothing Facist of Socialist about every town in America having a branch of the United States Treasury as well, our treasury, which exists for our benefit as opposed to a Rothschild bank.

          Then things can work, it can't with banking. Under those terms, although i see difficulties with hard currencies alone, id even be accepting of those as a means of trade, as long as they can be consistently kept in circulation to generate trade and not be progressively bled out of circulation by a parasitic infection to buy up power again, then they can stay there and continue to do that. The one real difficulty i do see with this is that if the economy is to grow, the currency would have to exist under a state of constant deflation unless we could keep finding and injecting more to make up for economic growth. Not efficient, but as long as there are no banks whatever we have will still stay there to generate trade.

          Do realize though that these are just as artificial as anything else. Yes they are a commodity, an actual substance. Gold is a fantastic electrical conductor, and its also a very dense material and almost impervious to corrosion. I'd pay about 20 - 30.00 a lb for it for certain applications in my shop, anything more i'll substitute copper, lead and some plating or coating process. Any additional value is attributed it to people due to scarcity and remains only for as long as they deem it to be worth that artificial value.

          We do need to get it through our heads that business is taking payment for legitimate and tangible benefits which people can actually use, not scamming them with their own money.

          There's only two things we need to consider here, without banking whatever means of trade we use can stay there and continue to perform exactly that function. Then things can work and i would support that. If we can use a means of trade which can be consistently matched to the full capacity of the population to generate useful production and services, then the currency can maintain a consistent value then things can work extremely well an i would be extremely happy.

          From what i've seen of it, Mikes MPE model is a mathematical attempt to try to accomplish this perfectly and it would be nice if it could be, but it doesn't need to be perfect either, it just has to work. If we need to sacrifice a little perfection in order to avoid treading on some freedom then that is a good thing too, it only has to work and we have to make it so that it can. He is an extremely intelligent man so much so that some of his work needs to be brought way down to the level of my simple engineering math, which i think he may have a little difficulty doing sometimes, but i am definitely looking forward to a chance to pick his brain and see what i can learn from him. From what i can tell his model is obviously Franklin so that pretty much sums up his intent, and as opposed to condemning the mans work for two tiny discrepancies i have questions about which are absolutely inconsequential in comparison to what we have today, i want to talk to the man and learn more of what he thinks and i hope that in some way i can return some benefit to him from some of what i think too.

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  27. Jacktr

    Our faschist austrian Citizen doesn´t understand the first thing about Mathematically Perfected Economy for if he does he wouldn´t come up with these false assertions which he can NOT proof simply because MPE and Mike is 100% correct on every count. The fact he judges a book on it´s cover tells you the fool he really is.

    You are done faschist gnome(s), and you know it.....We´re going to smoke you out of your miserable little faschist gnome dream and kick you out of this country for this country to return to it´s constitutional values found by our fathers. MPE is what OUR founding fathers stood for.

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  28. Citizen

    DANGER: Mathematical Perfected Economy (MPE)
    IS World Socialism on Steroids
    IS neither mathematical and is far from perfected by any stretch of one’s imagination.

    Under MPE, A person who accumulates capital and wishes to earn interest on their savings is summarily labeled a “Jew” or “Banker”

    Under MPE, ALL concentrations of wealth are systematically “redistributed” in the form of “interest free” principal only loans made to anyone who has a “need”.

    Under MPE, Darth Michael Montagne Vader, writes and manages the software source code that instantaneously redistributes the world currency. Never mind that Darth Montagne lives in the shadows, a spooky dude shown in a back lit hunting photo reminiscent of a fugitive poster on the Post Office wall. “this is not the droid you’re looking for”

    Under MPE, SOFTWARE becomes the cyber math tool used to re-balance inequities in the world economy. As soon as any inflation or deflation is detected, the offending area is targeted with account transfers out or in, as the case may dictate, to correct the imbalanced condition. I admit that Fortan77 or C++ are both capable programming tools able to produce scalable code to manipulate the entire world economy, but WHY would anyone choose to implement such an inherently amoral and inhuman system of wealth redistribution?

    Under MPE, personal WEALTH is discouraged, only the STATE holds the wealth and individuals are summarily stripped of any excess savings (hoarding) they may have earned over a lifetime of hard work. Everyone’s wealth is absorbed into the “COLLECTIVE”. Corporations are deemed to be “interest earning usury banks or Jews, hoarding the currency and thus are targeted and stripped of any of their excess capital which is reabsorbed into the collective and redistributed by the MPE software model.

    Oh and yes Darth (Michael Montagne) Vader
    IS the Man Behind the Curtain (The Mighty OZ) who is in charge of the algorithm code.

    Can we all give a rousing Sieg Heil here!

    I DON’T THINK SO…
    Austrian Economics dismantles MPE at every key point of applied economics and IS NOT Socialism on Steroids

    Ron Paul is an AE Libertarian that RESPECTS human action and liberty.
    MPE is computer driven socialism, TOTALITARIAN hack code

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    1. David

      Well Citizen, this post is unfortunate because at one time i did have a lot of respect for you, unfortunately i cannot anymore.

      Instead of answering the question which several of us have posed numerous times in that what would prevent the Rothschild’s from loaning an equal amount of hard currencies into circulation and in 10 years consume all of our hard currencies in interest which you cant as we all know this is exactly what would happen, you post what anyone who has been reading and following these conversations knows to be outright lies supposedly in defense of your “Theory”, and consequently the “Theory” has now lost any and all credibility which it could possibly have.

      I’ve been waiting for Mike to respond do this, as he is the one best qualified to defend MPE itself, and although i don’t consider MPE to be the be all and end all of establishing a free economy where the people have the right to keep and benefit from all of their own efforts it does contain the essential elements toward establishing this. I simply want to see something which can work toward everyone’s freedom and benefit and MPE along with the simple discussions many of us have been having on here, and the reasonings of Franklin, Lincoln, and many others would and could.

      In terms of wealth distribution, here we go:

      So called “free market capitalism” is the ultimate form of wealth redistribution, as it allows a parasitic infection which contributes absolutely nothing toward the benefit of the population (Banks) to progressively consume all of the nations wealth in interest to the extent where 100 % of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few banking families with nothing left for anyone else, so this is the ultimate form of wealth redistribution.

      “Austrian economics” also constitutes this same ultimate form of wealth redistribution and is the back up plan of the banking system in case they fail to consume all of the wealth through “free market capitalism” It restricts us to finite currencies which cannot be replaced once consumed, and leaves the door wide open for banks to consume these currencies in interest without a federal reserve bank, and without fractional reserve banking as well, just as i said, the Rothschilds have literally all of the worlds gold supply secured in their vaults under London, with the exception of that which is supposedly secured in Fort Knox, and under the Austrian terms and conditions they will have all of that gold to within about 10 years. Again this allows a parasitic infection which contributes absolutely nothing toward the benefit of the population (Banks) consume all of the nations wealth in interest to the extent where 100 % of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few banking families with nothing left for anyone else, so this is the ultimate form of wealth redistribution and you call giving them the right to do this freedom ??????????????????????????????

      Socialism does not even constitute redistribution of wealth as it is simply the means to secure absolute power and control over the population by the banks through their puppet governments once they have consumed 100 % of the wealth through the wealth redistribution process, in order to prevent any attempt by the population to get it back, so it is simply the final consequence and the means to permanently secure the wealth redistribution promoted by the former.

      What you are defending as “Freedom” amounts to removing from the people the right to acquire and hold property and giving thieves “free” reign in order to steal from the entire population at will until there is no more property left for them to steal. There is and can be no disputing this, and in the end this is the only end result which can be accomplished with any form of Banking and private interest, as an economy simply cannot exist to serve a parasitic infection as opposed to those contributing to its useful production. Any 3 year old child can figure this out and anyone who would maintain that it can, can only do so as a result of trusting and believing in a theory to the point where it becomes a religion and makes them incapable of any form of sense or reason which would enable them to see beyond the lies they’ve been fed. I’m actually very surprised that throughout all of the discussion which has taken place here you have not begun to see this by now yourself.

      What we have been promoting instead, what Mike and Jake call MPE, what i have been calling Ben Franklin economics, etc., is a means to permanently eliminate any form of wealth redistribution by simply eliminating the parasitic infection which must make complete and total wealth redistribution inevitable, Banks and private interest.

      What we are promoting is a completely free and private enterprise system and economy, where the people themselves create and manage their own means of trade for their own benefit independently of the parasitic infection which must and has always consumed “redistributed” 100 % of the wealth into its own hands in order to maintain its ability to survive. What we are talking about, is giving each and every member of the population not the privilege at the mercy of the banking system but the “right”, to keep and prosper privately, not publicly, from 100 % of the useful efforts which each and every one of them is willing and capable of contributing to the rest, and providing an equal chance for every single citizen in order to do so according to the basic tenet on which the United States of America is founded, that “all men are created equal”.

      If this is done wisely, it can even eliminate the final form of involuntary servitude which would still exist after the elimination of banking and interest which is Taxation, again establishing “Freedom” where there was none before. If it is done wisely, it can completely and totally eliminate poverty as well where the excess injections of currency which will be required to make up for economic growth that the population generates, can be used to provide a more than adequate existence even for the people not capable of contributing to the productive effort of the population at absolutely no cost to any of those that do.

      If done correctly this can establish what today would be considered a Utopian dream where the standard of living of the population in America would be so far beyond anything which we have experienced in the past, that it would be impossible for most to comprehend until it is actually established. Instead of being a Utopian dream, it is simply the natural state of prosperity which the people themselves would have been capable of creating all along except for the fact that the vast majority of their productive effort has always been consumed by the parasitic infection which both “Free Market Capitalism” and “Austrian Economics” exist to feed. In other words, it will be the restoration of their natural ability to create prosperity for themselves and each other, absent of the unnatural redistribution of wealth which this parasitic infection must inevitably generate to the point where that unnatural distribution becomes complete and absolute resulting in the final evolution of Socialism to secure that distribution.

      Freedom is the absence of power and you can only have one or the other as the two cannot exist within the same space except at each others expense. I need no power in order to sustain myself, because i contribute useful and beneficial things to the population for their own benefit which they willingly obtain from me because what i create for them will enhance their lives, their enjoyment of freedom, and their pursuit of happiness. Banks on the other hand contribute no such thing, and must establish power in order to survive and sustain themselves as they have absolutely no other means to do so, neither does a thief who violates the rights and freedoms of his fellow citizens and sustains himself by stealing from them that which they have rightfully earned.

      It is about bloody time that absolutely everyone came to understand that difference so that freedom can be established and finally secured, as opposed to trusting and believing more idiotic bullshit invented by this parasitic infection which survives on power and digging both their own and everyone else’s graves ever deeper in the name of false “freedom” to the extent where there will be absolutely no way for any of us to climb out of them anymore.

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  29. Jason

    David and Jack,

    While I commend your persistence, your starting to smack that Dr. Paul would attempt to create a banking system for his own benefit. You discredit every word you have so diligently re-posted on this board in so doing. Do you honestly believe that the man who has written entire books on this subject hasn't taken the time to study money in all its forms? Step out of the bubble for a moment and look at the big picture.

    The Fed has resisted attack for 97 years now. Do you suppose that it may take a pseudo act of God to bring it down? Now, put yourself in your hypothetical presidency. You need to convince the Congress, who are all watching their backs, to tear down the infrastructure of the country and rebuild it. Simultaneously, you must convince the American people, who do not have the convenience of a never ending supply of fiat money, that there is a better way. Then, you must find a way to transition to the new system. That transition cannot, repeat cannot, happen overnight. Lincoln and Kennedy knew exactly what they were doing in their attempts, had many smart people to help, and failed.

    You, Mr. hypothetical President, are proposing that first you will make this change instantaneously and pull the foundation with nothing to support the house and, second, that you possess this magical ability to convince the American people that all banks need to be criminalized. Do you see where what you're proposing is a bit out there? Dr. Paul has not been sitting on the sidelines all these years with his nose in the clouds. He's been in the middle of it all, fighting against the corruption. He knows as well as anyone on this planet exactly what it will take to bring down the Fed and is the only person currently in an electable position with that knowledge.

    You claim that ending the Fed doesn't fix the problem. Let's step out of the paradigm and into historical examples. While we were on the Constitutionally authorized monetary system, inflation ceased for 100 years. A century with no hidden tax and the country flourished. This is something that we have in our history as a tangible, provable case. Beyond that, it is what our Founders envisioned for this country, and they were spot on in everything else. The Colonies experimented with fiat money. It was successful, but for a very limited number of people and short period of time. The Founders had experience with it going into the Constitutional Conventions and chose not to go that route. What you're espousing implies that you have all the answers missed by the Founders and Dr. Paul, a man who has not only theorized about money but has dealt with it in today's world in real terms amongst the powers that be. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

    By the way, it is customary in this country to use titles of distinction when they have been earned. Dr. Paul, Congressman Paul, or Representative Paul are all appropriate, Mr. Paul or "Ron ole buddy" are not. Dr. Paul has likely maintained these titles longer than you've been alive, judging from your lack of respect.

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    1. David

      Hi Jason;

      Actually check some of my posts to Jack regarding Ron Paul. Jack is a good guy and he wants to see a working and functioning economy which exists for the benefit of Americans, and he is proposing working and functioning solutions toward that end based on concepts which so many of us have been discussing for a long time on here as well.

      I think that the working solution may be somewhat simpler than what MPE proposes although MPE is based on concepts which would actually allow it to work. I don't agree with Ron Paul's stated economic views, but i also consider him to be our best chance of halting the current progress toward Socialism, and also our best chance of trying to finally bring about an economic renaissance where economies can actually work to the benefit and prosperity of their populations. I also agree with the competing currency aspect of the Austrian Theory although i don't see the theory offering any solutions toward a working economy which wont simply be consumed by banks in a few short years again, the idea of separate competing currencies as a store of wealth could greatly enhance the function of anything which is used as a means of trade, so i'm seeing a lot of potential benefit there, and there are certain components of it which should be considered and may be useful. As per some of my posts to Jack on the subject i question whether Ron Paul's economic views are actually as stated for reasons stated as well, I do know his voting record and political history and that he is the one man whom we have who has a chance at the presidency who is not owned lock stock and barrel by the banks who own the current establishment, and i do know that through his entire political history he has come out on the right side of freedom every time.

      Because of Dr. Pauls political history which i have been following from the beginning and am very familiar with, he does have my support and i do want to see him as our president sometime and hopefully in the near future and consider him to be our best chance of restoring and securing freedom and possibly finally giving the population the right to benefit from the prosperity they themselves are capable of creating. I'm hoping that Jack and Mike as well can examine that history in detail realize his dedication to the freedom of the American people as opposed to simply associating him with his stated economic views, simply stick to putting working and functioning solutions in front of people for them to think about and consider, and realize that Dr. Paul may be our single and only chance of bringing them about. He is after all proposing ending the Federal Reserve which is the first step in the right direction, regardless of anything else he says and if whatever he does after that fails to work he is also most likely to listen to and try things which can.

      The problem is based on the last presidential election where party and media manipulation by the banks prevented Ron Paul from even being heard despite the fact that he had over 40 % of the popular support in the initial straw polls which was 3 times that of any other candidate, i think it will fall on we the people to collapse the power which would and can prevent us from electing him if we are to have a chance to do so, so it still comes down to applying enough pressure and establishing enough fear in the current political establishment to get them to turn their backs on their current masters, the banks, and act in our interests instead, or trying to motivate a mass economic revolt where everyone all at once will simply stop paying and bring down the current system by force, so it would seem that the banking problem would have already been dealt with by the people and without banks to consume our productive effort and our means of trade in interest then even gold and silver could work as currencies.

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  30. Jake

    This message is to notify all of us that Saturday will be the first broadcast live of Mike´s new radio show, "mike montagne on mathematically perfected economy and absolute consensual representation." The 3-hour broadcast will be available live from http://www.tnsradio.ning.com at 3 PM to 6 PM Pacific Time. Please notify your friends, who can listen in from a live link at the top left-hand corner of the TNS Radio home page. You can also tune in directly from any iTunes installation by clicking the Advanced menu... Open audio stream... and tuning in to the URL: http://184.82.19.16:8300/listen.pls.
    --
    Warm regards,

    Friends of MPE

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  31. Jack

    Hi to all,

    There’s been much going on behind the scenes. This email is to notify all of us that Saturday will be the first broadcast live of my new radio show, “mike montagne on mathematically perfected economy and absolute consensual representation.” The 3-hour broadcast will be available live from http://www.tnsradio.ning.com at 3 PM to 6 PM Pacific Time. Please notify your friends, who can listen in from a live link at the top left-hand corner of the TNS Radio home page. You can also tune in directly from any iTunes installation by clicking the Advanced menu… Open audio stream… and tuning in to the URL: http://184.82.19.16:8300/listen.pls.

    Warm regards,
    mike montagne

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  32. David

    Another reposting from some time ago which needs to be brought to the front again. Give it some thought people:

    Okay, im seeing a problem here in regards to the end the fed issue which we do need to understand. I agree, we need to end the fed, but we have a little problem here in that there are still people thinking that ending the fed will solve the problems. We need to abolish banking, all banking, any form of banking. Abolish the whole damn concept of private interest on money, completely, totally, and absolutely. Andrew Jackson killed the central bank but he didn't kill all the banks, by the early 1900's we had the Federal Reserve and while we didn't have it, all the other private banks could still crash the economy anytime and in any way they wanted too anyway.

    Money enables the trade of tangible products and services between people for each others benefit, interest removes that means of trade from them and establishes power for the one charging the interest at the expense of that trade and the people. If there is to be interest, then let it be on loans from the people to the people where it can fund other public services instead of taxes and go immediately back into circulaton and continue to generate more trade and production. Thats the only form in which it can be tolerated and where it cannot be accumulated to buy power.

    Power exists at the expense of freedom, freedom is established by destroying power. How do you establish power over someone ? By making them poor and dependent on the person establishing the power. How do you make people poor and dependent on someones power ? By controlling their means of trade and/or charging them interest, thus restricting and diminishing their ability to exchange the useful things they can do for each other. Any entity which takes payment and does not generate some form of tangible product or service toward someones benefit, exists as a parasite, can only exist through establishing power and can only maintain its existence through establishing more power, in other words, Banks, all Banks, Central Banks, big Banks, little Banks, each and every Bank. How do we establish and secure everlasting freedom and rich, abundant and ever increasing prosperity for ourselves ?. Kill all the Banks, Central Banks, big Banks, little Banks, each and every Bank.

    Its about time that everyone got it through their heads that if were going to maintain a free, consistent, reliable, prosperous and growing private enterprise system, that we need our own debt free public currency to fuel it, which is created, owned and controlled only and exclusively by the population that it serves, so that it can be consistently and reliably created and issued in order to generate and maximize real production and prosperity and can remain in circulation to continue to generate real production and prosperity without being bled off incrementally by parasites who contribute nothing to these things. Anything else is sheer idiocy. Just think about the sheer and incredible stupidity of letting our production and prosperity be controlled by money, as opposed to controlling money to create production and prosperity. How incredibly stupid is it of us, to have tolerated a system which can come crashing down any time banks decide to make it do that, shut down our useful production creating poverty for everyone when there has been absolutely no change in our capacity for useful production ?. Why is the American population existing in the worst state of poverty that the country has seen in 70 years and facing the imminent destruction of their lives and freedoms today, when we have the means and resources within our hands right now, today and at this very moment, to create an abundance and a standard of living for ourselves 30 times what it has ever been in the past ?. Because we have banks who create and control the money and charge interest on it so we always have less instead of more, and if they didn't create and only controlled it and only charged interest on it, we'd still reach the same end. How can we have this abundance and standard of living 30 times what it has ever been in the past, instantly, today, immediately and at any time we choose and then make it 60 and 100 times and more what it has ever been in the past ? Kill all the banks, Central Banks, big Banks, little Banks, each and every Bank. Then create all the money we need for ourselves, control it ourselves and to our own benefit, so that it can actually enable us to produce and trade for the maximum extent of what were capable of producing, always and consistently.

    What is a free economy ? Money serving us.

    What is slavery ? Us serving money = Banking.

    How do we abolish slavery, establish permanent economic freedom and permanently secure our political freedoms as well ? Kill all the Banks, Central Banks, big Banks, little Banks, each and every Bank. Then create and manage our own money ourselves, all of the money, every single penny of it and make it serve us.

    Once again, I will ask everyone who hasn't done so yet to take 5 minutes, and actually think about and consider carefully, the incredible stupidity of our current economic system, and the incomprehensible stupidity of people in tolerating it thus far. I guess that's what happens when people don't want to think and just trust and believe and do what they are told, it makes them stupid. At this point though and by the millions every day, they are figuring out that they can't afford to be stupid anymore, they are starting to think and look for and understand solutions and the power has not yet been established to prevent them from acting on what they figure out. As long as they get it right and kill every single bank, then it will be money serving us instead of controlling us. It will continue to do so for all time to come and we will be its master and it will not be ours. If one single bank is left alive, then it never can and never will. Are we really stupid enough to do this.....AGAIN ? Are we really stupid enough to cast aside all thought, sense, observation, experience, history and reason, in order to trust and believe some economic theorists who say this can work, when they can't even get inflation right ?. The proof of an intelligent man is to learn from mistakes, the proof of an idiot is to keep repeating them, what are we ?

    I suppose i'll have to say this again before someone asks "but where would we deposit our paychecks and loan money to buy a house ?". The United States Treasury, your local branch, in the same building where you do it now probably with many of the same employees you deal with now, only it would be our treasury, yours and mine, and would exist to make us rich instead of to make us poor. Think outside that stupid little box people and imagine how things can be instead of how they are. There is not one single new thing which has ever been created nor one single benefit brought to mankind without someone doing so.

    Is there anyone here who is still not understanding this ?

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    1. Jack

      Hi David,

      Great post, thanks!

      From what i see here in Europe the real issue/problem is already getting obfuscated again. People rally against the government because of the measures/consequences and not against the real problem that is causing these measures; the (private) banking system and the issuance of OUR money against interest.

      Governments/politics role is just to take the heat and act as a cushion for the measures they are pushing on behalf of the banking system, and to beat down any resistance. Divide and Conquer. (through politics and religion). There are still people debating the left and right paradigm, and religion bs, they obviously do not understand the underlying issues and that they are just doing what they expect them to do. See also the debates going on in the link you provided. Complete utterly bs. I can count the Presidents of the US on one hand who were working on behalf of the people and we all know what happened to them. Take away your eyes from the smoke screens and let´s focus on the real issues. DON´T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT……AGAIN!

      ALL banking must END immediately. We demand the right to issue OUR money interest free under the conditions set out in OUR MPE amendment.

      True government must serve The People, STOP serving the banking usury system. SAY NO TO BANKS

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      1. David

        Hi Jack;

        LOL thanks, these are very old posts as well but it seems were having to get into the same issues here with the Austrians as we were with the people the banking system was sending on here to defend the current system some time ago as well, and once again the arguments in defense of banking simply cannot hold up.

        Yeah you already know this from experience as do i, and this is what many on here still need to realize as well. Banks are the ultimate deceivers, and are experts at shifting blame for the damage they create to someone else, typically the governments they establish in their service. Where i came from people railed against the Government for all of their woes elected one party after another with the same and identical results every time, and it was only after every single ounce of freedom and prosperity had been destroyed that they figured out that it had been the same 6 large banks establishing the leader of each of the political parties and dictating their actions. You state this extremely well in fact, and they get people debating and arguing alternate and seeming opposing philosophies all invented by the same damn banks in order to progressively secure further power for them while the people simply haven't a clue where what they have been fooled into believing in came from until it is too late to do anything about it.

        As i said in my post on the other blog:

        The American revolution was organized by the colonial governments which at that point were “by the people, of the people and for the people” and will be again once the power that prevents it from being so is destroyed, and the people supported their effort because it was in their interest.

        This is indeed possible and is also the natural function of Government which has unnaturally been usurped from us by Banks.

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        1. Jack

          David,

          If you register yourself here http://endtheecb.ning.com we can exchange contact (email/skype/tel) details.

          You can unregister again immediatley if you like, but it gives us the opportunity to exchange contact details without having to do it publicly. That´s all.

          Cheers

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        2. David

          Hi Jack;

          Send me an email at wekilledthebank@yahoo.com. That's a fictitious email account i set up to establish contact with some of the people we've been discussing things with on here and i'll respond with my actual contact information from that.

          TS, the same goes for you as well, if you want to get in contact beyond the discussions we've been having on here, do the same.

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  33. Art N

    Evertthing Dr. Paul says about our currency collapse makes sense. We spend more than we make. We consume more than we produce. The size of the public sector has grown beyond the private sector's ability to sustain it. Gold and a commodity based currency are the only ways to protect our puchasing power. I believe all this to be true but was recently enlightened as to why we, as a nation, have not self imploded. It is history lesson called imperialism. We can live beyond our means because we are subsidized. We exploited the Japanese. We are exploiting the Koreans. We are exploiting the Saudis. We are exploiting the Iraqis. We are exploiting the Chinese. When we are done with them, we will exploit the Iranians, the Pakistanis, the Indians and on and on. In civilizations past it was the Roman Empire, the Spanish Empire, the British Empire and today it is the US Empire. We are the world's only superpower and we pillage not necessarily by might, but by our control over the world economic order. When will it end? It will end when we have exhausted our ability to exploit. Not in a currency collapse. Not in a currency realignment. It will end when a new world order emerges and the US Empire crumbles. It won't be pretty. Never has been.

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  34. jeremy8080

    A Gold Standard is looking better daily...

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  35. Citizen

    Good Morning Jack,

    While I find MPE to be an intriguing concept, as a theory it doesn't rise to the level that might justify the associated risk to experiment with.

    Two reasons it won't work
    1. It requires the total destruction of the current system to a point of complete financial collapse and the ensuing chaos would be catastrophic.

    2. Even if it could be achieved, in theory, it would require God like powers to orchestrate and only God like divine beings with unimpeachable character to manage its complexity.

    AS FOR BANKS...
    I can assure you that ALL systems will result in a Banking iike institution regardless. Even a 5 year old will hoard his savings and negotiate a favorable rate of return on his saved lolly pops if you seek to make a deal.
    Banks are the normal function of any community and are simply the savings exchange facility that a community of "savers" will use.
    Banks don't go away under any system,

    But the FED is not really a bank, its a SCAM, a debt monetizing system in place to create Credit out of Thin Air.

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    1. Jack

      Morning Citizen,

      Appreciate your sympathy and interest.

      1. The current system has already collapsed (which Mike calculated in 1979). All they are trying is to heal a terminal patient with painkillers. They have two options: reset the system which in itself will create complete chaos, or inflate their way out which will also end in complete chaos. This system has expired and is about to take US with it.

      2. I don´t see the complexity. Look around you to what we already have achieved and the technology/knowledge we have available.

      Like i said: take away the FED (the top of the pyramid), but leave the other banks (the rest of the pyramid) and nothing will change.

      I understand the utopian feel about this concept but in my opinion it is the only alternative we have.

      All we need is enough people supporting it. WE can do this. NOTHING is impossible!

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      1. David

        Hi Jack / Citizen;

        Yes, i fully agree Jack, a public currency under public management can be an incredibly simple thing and an economy needs to be so in order to function as well. I think that one of the problems were experiencing here is that Mike has worked out as many details as he could in order to attempt to make such a system perfect, and the description presented appears far more complex and difficult to understand than what such a system actually would be. Its extremely valuable input, and can go a long way toward making the new system function, but thus far those of us who have been presenting arguments to the public in favor of such a system have been doing it in basic conceptual terms which all of them could understand and make sense of immediately. The details don't matter at this point and its the idea they need to understand so that we will have a chance to work out the details and make it function as well as possible.

        The mass public awakening which has been happening in America began in spring of this year when we started forwarding these basic concepts into circulation and people did pick up on them and understand them. Its to the point now where all but a very few who's interests lie in some form of business involving money understand the cause of all of their problems, are livid with rage at America's banking system for what they have done to them and know that they need to be destroyed. A friend of mine is retired and spends a lot of time entertaining himself on online chat sites, and everywhere he goes now someone is talking about how we need to kill our banking system and make our economy work for the American people. You can log into a sex room and you'll find someone there talking about killing our banks. That is the extent to which this has propagated thus far and they are going to do it, any other economic philosophies notwithstanding. They simply hate the Banks !

        In terms of Citizens post, # 1 is so simply resolved just by replacing any current federal reserve debt money which people have legitimately earned with real American Dollars, cancelling all bank debt allowing those interest payments to remain in circulation and generate trade, and injecting sufficient additional American Dollars into the system in order to pay for what our production capacity would actually be. We can restore the economy and have rich and abundant prosperity across the board instantly and immediately simply by doing these few simple things, and i hope that at some point those like Citizen can come to look beyond what they understand about the current parasitic monetary system and realize just how simple it would be to establish something new which could actually work and be sustainable. So many already have. In terms of #2, the only possible way to eliminate money buying absolute power is to put it under the control of the people themselves through their elected representatives. Right now God like power has been established, and will be under Austrian Economics too, because it allows the control of the means of trade by private interests. Either way these interests will through bribery and corruption establish government in their service as they always have and secure this God like power for themselves, just as they have already done. Citizen's fear of this God like power is well founded, but we do have to realize from whence it comes and also realize that the only possible way to eliminate it is to take control of the means to this God like power away form the private interests who have used it to establish this, and put it back in the hands of the people themselves to be managed for their benefit according to their vote. There simply is no other possible way to eliminate this power and any system which proposes anything but this can only evolve into ever more God like power.

        In terms of Citizens last statement, any system will result in banking, but if we criminalize a criminal practice, which it is for reasons which both myself and many others have demonstrated time and time again, then any form of banking will be restricted to organized crime and loan sharks, who can be arrested and prosecuted for engaging in it and will not be to the extent where it is capable of shutting down the economy as it is today and has done time and time again. In terms of people making their savings work for them, we don't need banking and interest, and people can simply invest them in some form of useful production which actually can benefit the economy instead. Whether in businesses of their own, or in helping someone else to establish a productive business, the returns when successful will be far greater than any form of interest could ever provide and where not successful it is the investor assuming the risk and liability for the investment and no the people of the United States. Those wanting a secure investment which will generate profit with minimal risk can invest their savings in things like rental properties which will maintain their value and are easily disposable and in the process be providing someone with a place to live in doing so, so again the investment serves a useful function toward someones benefit instead of just generating interest at everyone's expense. In any event, the savings will have been applied toward generating useful production which can benefit the economy as opposed to consuming its means of trade in interest at the expense of such useful production.

        We do need most of the functions which are currently provided to us by private banks, i.e. maintaining accounts, issuing loans, providing for electronic transactions which i need every time i do a production run here so i can call my suppliers and pay for what i need over the phone as opposed to waiting for the mail to get payment to them, but these can just as easily be provided by the United States Treasury through the same local bank outlets which we have now and can be provided for the people's benefit instead of at their expense. We currently have a United States Post Office (which instead of establishing power simply serves as an efficient, standard and reliable means to ship goods and information over distances to our benefit and convenience) in every town, why not a local branch of the Treasury as well to perform these functions ?

        Anyway, hopefully this can help clarify some of the details of this for those who haven't already come to understand them. We just need to think outside the box toward establishing something which can actually work to our benefit, instead of thinking in terms of trying to do this with a system which simply can't, never has, and never will.

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        1. Citizen

          Greetings David,

          Your responses are a bit lengthy but allow me to respond.

          Yes Americans are angry and the Tea Party is a phenomenon of that anger. We the People have chosen to use the public parks as a stage to voice our protests AND its working!

          Ending the FED is simply a starting point, as I stated before, we must end the Rothschild system of Fractional Reserve Banking (FRB) which is what you and Jack are railing against.

          FRB is the corrupt system of Credit Creation by multiplying demand deposits that don't exist. Few Americans understand how banks have become a tool of the STATE. It's a mutually corrupt relationship, allow me....

          1. Banks are given a Federal License to Steal by charging usury interest rates of 6%+ times 10 or 60% [FRB multiplier] on demand deposits they don't even have in the vault. While paying the actual depositor 0.75% on their deposits.
          AND
          2. The State uses the Banks to LAUNDER their deficit spending creating massive public DEBT out of Thin Air.

          Your statement..."but if we criminalize a criminal practice," IS disturbing. REAL Banking provides a valuable service to the common citizen, it permits community savings, demand deposit checking accounts, makes loans on life's essential requirements. Banks store People's wealth if it is run legitimately and absent corrupt government deficit social spending.
          My point... legitimate banking is a service and not a criminal practice. FRB IS a CRIMINAL PRACTICE, a practice of systematic wealth destruction and transfer to special interests. ALL political interests since the mid 18th Century have sought to control and use the proverbial Central Bank as their special deep pocket to buy their agendas.

          Don't get me wrong, I hold bankers and lawyers in equally LOW ESTEEM. Most would sell their mothers for a pint of beer.

          You say: "take control of the means ....away form the private interests"
          As an AE and Libertarian, I COUNT on bankers being GREEDY SOBs. I trust that they never used their heart and will seek to maximize their returns on every deal. Whereas if the PUBLIC sector controls the banks you have what we have right now, a special interest FED working for the politico and sheering the sheeple of their savings.

          Legal currency expansion should only come from the US Treasury issuing new silver bullion coins as real money. This federal spending is sufficient for natural population growth and to keep currency in fresh supply. Ending the FED would remove the DEBT spending and would effectively end the Credit Money abuses. People will put their silver savings in banks and wealth will grow and loans can be made from savings and not from inflated FRB

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        2. David

          Hi Citizen;

          Well this is the point, and just as you say "Don’t get me wrong, I hold bankers and lawyers in equally LOW ESTEEM. Most would sell their mothers for a pint of beer."

          Bottom line is that it is a criminal practice which is practiced by criminals, so the point is made, and why tolerate their theft in any form when we can provide the same services for ourselves publicly and for our benefit and not at our expense ?

          Currently public sector does not control banks, banks control the public sector, this is what we have to change and without banks who is there to control public sector but the people ?

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      2. Citizen

        Evening Jack,

        I agree, "technically" the INTEGRITY has collapsed and the system is being shored up by deceit and thief of our wealth.

        It "strategically" collapsed December 23, 1913, the day the FED Reserve was launched.
        It "tactically" collapsed when FDR signed EO 6102
        http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html
        After all FDR, argued that he had to do something to cover the market collapse of 29'
        The dollar was devalued by 40% by 1934, essentially a 40% TAX on the whole of the American Citizens, GRAND THEFT plain and simple.

        The FED Ponzi scheme remains tenuously in place for now. It will collapse in time and WE the People need to gird our defenses in preparation for that inevitable event. Buy gold and silver bullion coin as a STANDARD medium of exchange.

        The FED member Banks will collapse with the Fed Reserve Notes too.
        The chaos will be horrific, violence, anarchy and destruction.

        Starting ANY new monetary system will not likely happen for years AFTER the collapse. But gold and silver bullion coins will ALWAYS be a welcome barter medium of exchange

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        1. Jack

          Don´t get wrong bud as i also think that hoarding gold and silver and any other commodity is a good place to be for the next years until we have real solution implemented. Since 2003/4 when gold broke out of a certain trading range i converted steadily up to 80% of my cash into physical gold, silver and other commodities.

          BUT, all i´m doing is trying to protect my family from the consequences now becoming visible all around us due to the irreversable muliplication of debt BY INTEREST!

          Doing this doesn´t make me a gold bug. It´s just a measure to protect, but NO solution.

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    2. Jack

      The ideologies of the old school of politics, media, monetary systems, corporations , and all known structures are in a state of transformation. They are crumbling. Now is the time for fundamental change on all levels, we have to seize this moment. Because this is THE moment.

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      1. Citizen

        Yo Jack

        VOTE... That's the only Moment we can Seize at this juncture.

        REVOLUTION is a bloody mess and should not be considered lightly.

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      2. David

        Hi Jack;

        Yes, you have the essential element of what we need to do here, scrap the antiquated ideas of a feudal economy which cannot work and has never worked and think outside the box to create something new which can work, will work and is guaranteed to work. It's the only option we have in order to make anything work.

        Seems were always illustrating each others points so check out my last on this blog and this post as well. I'm simply pasting what was posted 6 months ago when we went through this same issue and simple reason and logic came out on top then as it must again as well and the general population in America is already well aware of it and has figured it out on their own, so any defense of any form of banking system is a futile effort at this point.

        http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-10-07/ron-paul-u-s-heading-for-soviet-style-economic-collapse/

        RE: your post on one of the other blogs about Mike Montagne, i believe you had included links to his site in several of your posts which i have already forwarded into circulation on my end so it is circulating and needs to as well, i simply had not heard of him until you brought him to our attention here and this is what we need to do, get things in people inboxes where they have them in front of their faces without having to go looking for them especially when they do not know what to look for.

        I think Mike needs to do two things, first post a simple introductory page bringing the concepts of a free public economy down to the level of the average person instead of his own from where they can continue on to study the rest. I sometimes have a problem doing this in my engineering work as well, as its natural to assume that other people understand what we do on certain things and where not we have to try to bring it to their level so that they can work up from there.

        Secondly, the reason i have been putting in my efforts on here is due to the popularity of Ron Paul and his public following as the discussions which take place on here will get peoples attention. I know the man's political history and per several of my posts, i think i can promise you that his economic views are not as stated for reasons i've already stated too. If we are to have any chance of actually bringing about what we propose, then i expect that our only chance will be to somehow manage to get Ron Paul elected as our President, as he is the single and only candidate who has any chance of becoming so who is not owned lock stock and barrel by America's banking system. At this point the last thing we need to do is to be working against his election and we need to restrict ourselves simply to the discussion of sound economic principles, help put him in a position where he will be able to tell us what he really thinks, and at that point i expect it will be identical to what most of us have reasoned out here as well. He is an American, he is an intelligent man, he knows American history, he knows what has worked even if he can't say it now and he is a true (as opposed to neo-austrian) Libertarian of which Benjamin Franklin was the first.

        If he turns out not to be, then we will need to look for alternatives, but he already will have already brought down the Federal Reserve and destroyed much of the power that would prevent us from accomplishing anything in the first place, and have given us a chance to progress further, so he is definitely not our enemy and Mike is hurting himself by working against him and essentially negating any chance of accomplishing the objective.

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