221 responses to “How Much Freedom Do We Have If We Can’t Even Drink Unpasteurized Milk?”

  1. mydozer

    The original United States has been usurped by a separate and different UNITED STATES formed in 1871, which only controls the District of Columbia and it's territories, and which is actually a corporation (the UNITED STATES CORPORATION) that acts as our current government. The United States Corporation operates under Corporate/Commercial/Public Law rather than Common/Private Law.

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  2. Michael

    Take any situation of government control and analyze it carefully and see if you can come to the conclusion that it needs to be eliminated. Granted, some may but pasteurizing milk is not one of them. I would contend that most are quite sensible and real valid arguments against sensible controls need to be made. Not an idea such as this on pasteurizing of milk which hasn't been thought out completely.

    And so goes the problem with Ron Paul and the libertarian's agenda. Feel good political arguments are invented with no serious thought for the consequences. And then the lemmings who frequent this place jump on the band wagon and support the obvious stupidity.

    Yes, you have a right to support it but don't ever be led to believe that the ideas such as this one are ever going to become mainstream ideas that can win an election.

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    1. Jim

      Again. Let me take this slowly for you.

      You say removing any government control. Now, listen CAREFULLY. Government can be FEDERAL or STATE level.

      Got that? Has it sunk in yet? I'll wait....................Ok?

      Removing FEDERAL statutes DOES NOT equate to having no laws at all.

      Got that???

      We have a thing called STATES. They ALSO write laws.

      Automatically assuming the federal part is the ONLY ones who can institute laws is dumb. It just isn't true.

      So either, you are not grasping the concept, or you are purposely being obtuse. Which is it?

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      1. Ron Paul Supporter

        Yeah, you got - it's called federalism. And its enshrined in the Tenth Amendment.

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  3. flinnie

    When the milk is heated in the pasteurization process, important things like the milks natural Lactase, Lipase, and Phosphatase, which helps with the breakdown of milk sugars (lactose), proteins, and the absorption of calcium, are destroyed eliminating the natural digestive support given by Mother Nature, herself. All the enzymes naturally found in milk are extremely heat sensitive making them some of the first things to go when milk is pasteurized.

    This process not only destroys the bad bacteria but also a lot of the good ones our bodies could use.
    pasteurization of milk or cheese kills all the probiotis in the milk that your body needs to properly digest the milk and that is why some people have allergies to milk or have lactose intolerance. It also zaps all of the enzymes and vitamins in the milk or cheese, and alters the protiens and fats in the milk. Raw milk has lactase and other enzymes which aid digestion and actually kill germs like salmonella only if it comes from grass fed free range cows. if you get milk that is not from grass feed free range cows you get problems because cows are meant to eat grass not corn, and exercise and move about. If the cows is not healthy before it dies you will catch some kid of sickness from drinking the milk or eating the cheese. Finally most of the milk in these studies and sold in Super Markets around the world is from conventionally grain-fed cattle. These cows are forced to walk around in there own feces and the fecal matter of other cows, which is why they all usually get sick and need to be fed antibiotics. As you can probably imagine cows that walks around in poop all day and are force fed food they were never meant to eat are going to produce milk that is filled with nasty bacterias, antibiotics, and viruses.

    A1 Beta-Casein is the nasty stuff associated with the release of beta-casomorphin-7, which is an opioid-like chemical released upon digestion. This protein fragment is what normally causes the joint pain, digestive issues, and leaky gut generally related to all casein. This is normally because the kind of dairy cow that produces A1 Beta-Caseins (Holsteins and Friesians, these are your typical black and white cows), also produce more milk per cow, so they are the favored dairy cows of the conventional factory farmed dairy industry. The A2 Beta-Casein produced by cow breeds like Jerseys and Gurnseys cows (brown and white cows), hasn’t been shown to cause the same problems with gut irritation, joint pain, or leaky gut problems. So if you insist on drinking milk, or doing a GOMAD protocol try and stick to the brown cows, the Masai did and did pretty well on it.

    A2 dairy is also associated with Goats milk which also seems to be less of a problem for even lactose/casein intolerant people.
    read a book called the raw truth about milk: http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Truth-About-Milk/dp/9962636736/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2
    This book explains how pasteurization, homogenization and processing are adding toxic levels of vitamin d to the milk, and how unprocessed milk can heal and help your immune system.

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    1. Michael

      finnie wrote: [quote]As you can probably imagine cows that walks around in poop all day and are force fed food they were never meant to eat are going to produce milk that is filled with nasty bacterias, antibiotics, and viruses.[/quote]

      Nobody has the right to tell the farmers that they can't have their cows living in those conditions. Not even government right? But the conditions seem to be necessary because of the demand for milk. Right? So go ahead and drink that milk. I'll stick with the pasteurized variety because I believe it's safer for my health. And if you catch some dreadful disease then stay away from the public because you don't have a right to infringe on the public's safety. Not because the government says so but because the public has a right to be safe from those diseases you and raw milk drinkers will catch and spread.

      And if you don't like those terms then let government control the situation the way it is presently doing.

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      1. flinnie

        well michael the pasturized milk you are consuming is from grainfed cows.
        When the milk is heated in the pasteurization process, important things like the milks natural Lactase, Lipase, and Phosphatase, which helps with the breakdown of milk sugars (lactose), proteins, and the absorption of calcium, are destroyed eliminating the natural digestive support given by Mother Nature, herself. All the enzymes naturally found in milk are extremely heat sensitive making them some of the first things to go when milk is pasteurized.

        This process not only destroys the bad bacteria but also a lot of the good ones our bodies could use.
        pasteurization of milk or cheese kills all the probiotis in the milk that your body needs to properly digest the milk and that is why some people have allergies to milk or have lactose intolerance. It also zaps all of the enzymes and vitamins in the milk or cheese, and alters the protiens and fats in the milk. Raw milk has lactase and other enzymes which aid digestion and actually kill germs like salmonella.

        The studies where they say raw milk is bad where done on grainfed cows that had to sit in their poop all day not grass fed cows that move around in a pasture, which studies show are 100 percent safe. And even if it is pastuerized you are consuming millk or cheese from a diseased cow because it is grainfeed an so you can sickness even if it is pastueried. I have friends who have gotten sallomenala from pasteruized milk.

        The majority of farmers that sell raw milk sell it grass fed and are targeted in raids by the fda all the time.

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        1. Michael

          Finnie, You seem to not want to face the issue and that's the problem. If you want to continue to support this kind of nonsense then do that but you can't escape the facts. And so I'll try one more time with you.
          Fact: The majority of milk producing cows are grain fed and stand around in cow dung.
          Fact: The number of people demanding milk make this an unfortuante fact.
          Fact: The milk from those cows needs to be pasteurized to prevent disease.

          All your statements on pasteurized milk are probably correct. If you and a few libertarians who care about getting raw milk really want it you can probably find it somewhere. This in no way alters the hard facts I've stated and so this isn't an issue to put before the people in order to drum up some wild ideas about government having too much control. Granted, there may be issues of government control that need to be addresssed and Ron Paul could address them. But as he does each of his arguments should be studied on it's merits.

          This is nothing more than inventing an issue to play to the politics of a lot of stupid people who are looking for an issue they can use to pounce on the government. It doesn't do Ron Paul any good as it won't get the sympathies of enough people to make Ron Paul popular.

          Perhaps he can do better with some real issues but I sort of doubt it because he needs to invent the sensationalism in order to play to his audience. An audience that loves to jump to stupid conclusions such as what this issue has hatched.

          Do you want it to be that way forever? Maybe Ron Paul is happy with it and gets the attention he needs to keep getting him elected. It won't ever get him elected to president because he has to play to a large number of sensible people. Your call.

          This is not an honest issue but Ron Paul's stance on 9/11 was honest. He didn't say it was an inside job but he did make it clear that 9/11 attacks were used by the Bush admin for an excuse for war in the ME. That's honest and correct but it too may not get voters. Too bad an honest politician can't tell the truth and be elected. And too bad he needs to invent red herrings such as pasteurized milk.

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      2. economic collapse

        This is dangerously misinformed. But bsides that people should be allowed to make the choice between drinking milk sludge from diseased cows (as you choose to do) or drinking the healthy alternative from cows that are raised humanely in ideal conditions - the way they used to be.

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        1. Michael

          You don't seem to want to understand that most cows are grain fed and stand around in their cow shit because that has become a necessity. That is the choice the farmers have made. There's nothing you can do about it. If you want to drink raw milk then you should do that. Don't come to stupid uninformed conclusions for other people who understand the facts.

          I'm not going to suffer your stupidity any longer. Have a nice f-cked up life.

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  4. flinstone123

    When the milk is heated in the pasteurization process, important things like the milks natural Lactase, Lipase, and Phosphatase, which helps with the breakdown of milk sugars (lactose), proteins, and the absorption of calcium, are destroyed eliminating the natural digestive support given by Mother Nature, herself. All the enzymes naturally found in milk are extremely heat sensitive making them some of the first things to go when milk is pasteurized.
    This process not only destroys the bad bacteria but also a lot of the good ones our bodies could use.
    pasteurization of milk or cheese kills all the probiotis in the milk that your body needs to properly digest the milk and that is why some people have allergies to milk or have lactose intolerance. It also zaps all of the enzymes and vitamins in the milk or cheese, and alters the protiens and fats in the milk. Raw milk has lactase and other enzymes which aid digestion and actually kill germs like salmonella only if it comes from grass fed free range cows. if you get milk that is not from grass feed free range cows you get problems because cows are meant to eat grass not corn, and exercise and move about. If the cows is not healthy before it dies you will catch some kid of sickness from drinking the milk or eating the cheese. Finally most of the milk in these studies and sold in Super Markets around the world is from conventionally grain-fed cattle. These cows are forced to walk around in there own feces and the fecal matter of other cows, which is why they all usually get sick and need to be fed antibiotics. As you can probably imagine cows that walks around in poop all day and are force fed food they were never meant to eat are going to produce milk that is filled with nasty bacterias, antibiotics, and viruses.
    A1 Beta-Casein is the nasty stuff associated with the release of beta-casomorphin-7, which is an opioid-like chemical released upon digestion. This protein fragment is what normally causes the joint pain, digestive issues, and leaky gut generally related to all casein. This is normally because the kind of dairy cow that produces A1 Beta-Caseins (Holsteins and Friesians, these are your typical black and white cows), also produce more milk per cow, so they are the favored dairy cows of the conventional factory farmed dairy industry. The A2 Beta-Casein produced by cow breeds like Jerseys and Gurnseys cows (brown and white cows), hasn’t been shown to cause the same problems with gut irritation, joint pain, or leaky gut problems. So if you insist on drinking milk, or doing a GOMAD protocol try and stick to the brown cows, the Masai did and did pretty well on it. A2 dairy is also associated with Goats milk which also seems to be less of a problem for even lactose/casein intolerant people.
    read a book called the raw truth about milk: http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Truth-About-Milk/dp/9962636736/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2
    This book explains how pasteurization, homogenization and processing are adding toxic levels of vitamin d to the milk, and how unprocessed milk can heal and help your immune system.

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  5. Cathy S

    I am a vegan and don't ingest dairy products; HOWEVER, I feel that if a person wants to drink unpasteurized milk, they should be able to!

    This government has gotten COMPLETELY out of hand...

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  6. 1stardancer

    I am a vegan and don't ingest dairy products; HOWEVER, I feel that if a person wants to drink unpasteurized milk, they should be able to!

    This government has gotten COMPLETELY out of hand...

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    1. flinstone

      since you are a vegan 1star dancer you should read this book to understand what you are missing out on
      read a book called the raw truth about milk: http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Truth-About-Milk/dp/9962636736/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2
      This book explains how pasteurization, homogenization and processing are adding toxic levels of vitamin d to the milk, and how unprocessed milk can heal and help your immune system. So read the book and then respond to me.

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    2. flinstone

      Weston A. Price (1870-1948) discovered what health is made of, and proved it. In the early 1930s Price and his wife (“Mrs Price”) travelled more than 100,000 miles to study the diets and health of isolated primitive peoples in Africa, South America, Australia, Polynesia, Europe and northern Canada, at a time when such communities still existed. He was the head of the american dental association.
      Price undertook amazing journeys into the wilds to seek out people “who were living in accordance with the tradition of their race and as little affected as might be possible by the influence of the white man”.
      Weston A. Price
      Wherever he found them — regardless of race, diet and climate — they were a “picture of superb health”: they had superb physiques, perfect teeth, no arthritis, no tuberculosis, no degenerative diseases, and they were cheerful, happy, hardy folk.
      That changed radically when he compared them to other, less isolated groups of the same peoples, charting a catastrophic health decline the closer they got to the “trade foods” produced by industrial society (processed foods grown by synthetic farming methods), in the shape of the “white man’s store”.
      He found it takes only one generation of eating industrialized food to destroy health and immunity, including pasteurized food.
      Price was a fine scientist and a thorough investigator and collected an enormous amount of data with thousands of supporting photographs — his case simply doesn’t leave any room for argument. We are all victims. But he leaves us with the promise of regeneration. Thwarted health can be recaptured.
      he pubished his research in a book called nutrition and physical degeneration in 1939. Here is the link to the first version of his book. read it and then reply to me: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html

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  7. Dano853

    Why did I expect Ron Paul supporters to be a little more levelheaded and objective? Its clear from the rhetoric and personal attacks that bias and narrowmindedness have no political bounds. So far i see little difference in the character between those who support RP and those against him. I hope this misrepresentation does not adversely affect his campaign.

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    1. Michael

      Misrepresentation? No, it's not and that's the problem. If Ron Paul ever wants to attract the mainstream then he's going to have to stop this kind of nonsense. Pasteurizing milk is done for a good reason and it's a waste of time trying to even argue it further.

      The issue is government interference and that's the issue that needs to be addressed. Not in this way by complaining about Pasteurized milk because that only makes asses of you Paul supporters.

      Take on the real issues that are going to resonate with the sane majority.

      Oh right, the libertarians are the only sane ones. Forget it. Buty your party horns now cause you can get them a lot cheaper now than after Ron Paul becomes the next president! LOL

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      1. Jim

        LOL, I like how you twist this around.

        Yes, I agree, the issue IS about government interference. The milk thing, is just an EXAMPLE of HOW it is interfering. I don't think it's being highlighted as a major issue, only that it shows an example of how federal government meddles with things.

        Nice try though.

        SPIN SPIN SPIN

        Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

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      2. flinstone

        When the milk is heated in the pasteurization process, important things like the milks natural Lactase, Lipase, and Phosphatase, which helps with the breakdown of milk sugars (lactose), proteins, and the absorption of calcium, are destroyed eliminating the natural digestive support given by Mother Nature, herself. All the enzymes naturally found in milk are extremely heat sensitive making them some of the first things to go when milk is pasteurized.
        This process not only destroys the bad bacteria but also a lot of the good ones our bodies could use.
        pasteurization of milk or cheese kills all the probiotis in the milk that your body needs to properly digest the milk and that is why some people have allergies to milk or have lactose intolerance. It also zaps all of the enzymes and vitamins in the milk or cheese, and alters the protiens and fats in the milk. Raw milk has lactase and other enzymes which aid digestion and actually kill germs like salmonella only if it comes from grass fed free range cows. if you get milk that is not from grass feed free range cows you get problems because cows are meant to eat grass not corn, and exercise and move about. If the cows is not healthy before it dies you will catch some kid of sickness from drinking the milk or eating the cheese. Finally most of the milk in these studies and sold in Super Markets around the world is from conventionally grain-fed cattle. These cows are forced to walk around in there own feces and the fecal matter of other cows, which is why they all usually get sick and need to be fed antibiotics. As you can probably imagine cows that walks around in poop all day and are force fed food they were never meant to eat are going to produce milk that is filled with nasty bacterias, antibiotics, and viruses.
        A1 Beta-Casein is the nasty stuff associated with the release of beta-casomorphin-7, which is an opioid-like chemical released upon digestion. This protein fragment is what normally causes the joint pain, digestive issues, and leaky gut generally related to all casein. This is normally because the kind of dairy cow that produces A1 Beta-Caseins (Holsteins and Friesians, these are your typical black and white cows), also produce more milk per cow, so they are the favored dairy cows of the conventional factory farmed dairy industry. The A2 Beta-Casein produced by cow breeds like Jerseys and Gurnseys cows (brown and white cows), hasn’t been shown to cause the same problems with gut irritation, joint pain, or leaky gut problems. So if you insist on drinking milk, or doing a GOMAD protocol try and stick to the brown cows, the Masai did and did pretty well on it. A2 dairy is also associated with Goats milk which also seems to be less of a problem for even lactose/casein intolerant people.
        read a book called the raw truth about milk: http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Truth-About-Milk/dp/9962636736/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2
        This book explains how pasteurization, homogenization and processing are adding toxic levels of vitamin d to the milk, and how unprocessed milk can heal and help your immune system. So read the book and then respond to me, michael

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      3. Jerry

        It seems that you don't get it. Have you seen Food Inc.? The FDA is ran by ex presidents and vice presidents of large corps that are worried about their profit. They could care less about your health. Do some research and you will learn more.

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  8. ronpaulsupporter1

    Flood Congress day after day to tell them we know about all the shit that is going on in Washington, and will hold all those going along with it accountable.

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  9. CRIPPLESTIX777

    Actually it is but from your rant I would bet you would support the gov. in taking free speech as well.Washington is putting us in the gutter and only a "douche" would have a youtube channel only to run their mouths.Get a life.

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  10. ikesterman1

    Watched a Doc. regarding this subject what happened to free markets and entrepreneurism .using swat , to regulate the length of your grass etc. its just another excuse to take away our freedoms .Ron Paul for President long live the Revolution ..give em; hell Ron ..

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  11. Josh

    Every founding father who drafted our beloved Bill of Rights and Constitution drank RAW MILK!!! That should settle this. lol

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  12. BJColter

    Ann Draughton, I'll bet you carry hand sanitizer with you. THE GERMS! If I want to pick my boogers without the feds interfering, I will.

    Here's Ron's new Tea Party theme song!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXvRDmM5Zx4

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  13. 86THECRITIC

    Well, those are politicians for you.

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  14. CRIPPLESTIX777

    I agree.If you invole yourself in d.u.i. you have made it a public matter so its no longer personal.I also feel the penalty for d.u.i. or violence should be far tougher.The politicians manipulate law so that it does not affect them or their interest groups example Obamacare waivers,telling you borrowing money wont add to the debt,telling you the war on drugs or in the middle east have been a sucsess.

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  15. Ann Draughon

    The bill states the following:

    H. R. 1830

    To authorize the interstate traffic of unpasteurized milk and milk products that are packaged for direct human consumption.

    When we package a food and put it in commerce across state lines – whether in a grocery store, restaurant or other venue, we are telling people that what we sell is safe to consume. That’s even the way the law is written in Tennessee and many other states as far as liability in foodborne illnesses lawsuits.

    There is no practical or legal way to make raw milk and all raw milk cheese safe for consumption since the harmful bacteria that get in raw milk are naturally present in the milking environment. Many can grow under refrigeration. Milk is known to carry at least 14 different disease causing bacteria such as Salmonella, hemorragic E. coli and Listeria monocytogenes. One of the oddest reports that I’ve seen published is 80 people in Massachusetts who had to be immunized for rabies after drinking raw milk from two rabid cows (Centers for Disease Control, MMWR 48:228-229.).

    The further we take the milk from the farm, the greater the risk since bacteria have time to grow and increase in numbers over time. Many farm families drink raw milk with no problem but they don’t store it for long periods or take it to other states. Drinking raw milk that is handled, packaged and transported is a little like playing Russian Roulette – about 75% of the time it is safe. In the words of Clint Eastwood ” Do You Feel Lucky?”

    I have been a food safety professional and educator at a university for over 30 years. I care deeply about the health of every American and have spent my life trying to improve the safety of the U.S. food supply through education and research. There is a fairly good article written in straight-forward English in the April 2009 issue of a refereed (peer reviewed) scientific publication “Food Protection Trends” – pages 211 to 222 on Foodborne Disease Outbreaks Associated with Raw Milk. This is published by the International Association for Food Protection – the foremost professional association in the world dedicated to protecting the safety of food. I suggest anyone who plans to drink raw milk or feed it to their children read the research. It presents both sides of this issue.

    As a Libertarian, I think government should generally stay out of our business and that we have the right to eat whatever and any quantity or type of food that we want. I admire Ron Paul and support his stand on many issues but I think his aids have let him down on this bill by not providing him sufficient information.

    With only 42% of dairy farmers (in a PA study) aware that milk can carry pathogens (what’s a pathogen? – LOL) , the average consumer is even more clueless about this issue. They get their science “facts” from a family member, the news or off the internet. Then we add to that the junk science that has shown that drinking raw milk cures everything from cancer to asthma. Some children with digestive issues may actually do better with raw milk that is not homogenized. But, the risk of infection is high. It is usually the kids with leukemia or people with chronic illnesses who end up paying the ultimate price although healthy people sicken and die from illnesses associated with raw milk consumption also.

    I don’t ever want to see raw milk NEXT to the pasteurized milk in the dairy case or served at a restaurant or farmer’s market since people are more likely to try it not understanding the risk. There are scientific studies in reputable refereed journals showing growth of ONE foodborne disease causing bacterium from raw milk to 1,000,000 per ml within a week under refrigeration. With most of the bacterial foodborne diseases, it takes about 1000 cells to cause illness, although some can cause illness with as little as 10 cells.. It doesn’t take long to reach those levels if harmful bacteria are present.

    Approximately 14% of Americans (32 Million) cannot read the instructions on a bottle of pills, 25% of Americans are functionally illiterate (can’t find specific information in an article or fill out a form). Only about 20% of 12th graders in the U.S. are considered proficient in Math and Science and 40% in Reading (US DOEd , http://www2.ed.gov/nclb/overview/importance/edlite-index.html) . It is irresponsible to sell food that may be dangerous when people do not have the scientific information or knowledge to make wise choices.

    We put warnings on packages of ground beef to cook them, but raw milk is a food intended to be consumed raw even if people can and do read the packages. Warning labels of death or injury would definitely be appropriate on packaged raw milk in interstate commerce since the risk is very high. One study done in our laboratory with over 250 farms found that 1 out 4 raw milk samples contained at least one pathogenic (harmful) bacterium.

    People who become ill will not connect their illness or their child’s illness or death to their own irresponsible decision to drink raw milk. Instead they will place the blame squarely on the market that sold it to them and on other parts of the food system such as farmers - because for the most part people trust that food they buy in the U.S. won't kill them or make them ill. They will contact their attorney – feeling righteously that they have been violated and deceived by a market that would sell them unsafe raw milk. And they will be right…..

    This is not about our rights, the constitution or even our beliefs – it is about science. Please read the science (not junk science) and make an informed decision.

    Ann

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    1. Libertarian777

      "Please read the science (not junk science) and make an informed decision."

      therein lies the downfall to your own argument.
      You are saying we should make an informed decision, yet you are advocating the government make the decision for us.

      Which is it? Are we to make the decision or the government.

      As a claimed libertarian, i'm surprised you're not in favour of the STATES passing regulations on milk, and not the Federal FDA.

      I agree people cannot and do not read safety labels. In fact tobacco kills more people than pathogens in the food supply annually. And there are huge markings on tobacco that clearly state this. In addition, by law, tobacco is regulated and is always behind the counter. Has this stopped tobacco sales?

      Further, you state "It is irresponsible to sell food that may be dangerous when people do not have the scientific information or knowledge to make wise choices. "

      Well the same can be said about McDonalds, Burger King, and even Subway. Should the government not regulate them as well? To limit the amount of sodium, fat, etc. in there?

      There is always a pathogen in the food, an unsafe car, tainted meat, terrorists etc. etc. and while I don't doubt in the short term, removing legislation may see a spike in illnesses / injuries, in the longer term the market (individuals choosing) will sort it out.

      The whole government 'scare' about Toyota's being unsafe, clearly does not correlate with the market's perception of Toyota's safety. If people were dying by the hundreds from unsafe vehicles that Toyota made (which they were NOT) that company would have gone the way of GM. But aside from the mainstreet media scare tactics, there have NOT been as many deaths/injuries from 'unintended acceleration' from Toyota as they would have you believe.

      It seems cold and callous to say "yes people die"... but unfortunately that's life. People die from many things. The question is do you give government unlimited power to 'stop' people from 'dying'? If we were all locked in solitary confinement 24hours a day, force fed irradiated food and on suicide watch i'm sure the death rate in the population would decrease dramatically. But at what cost?

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    2. Michael

      Libertarians have a right to do harm to themselves. I would even support legalizing suicide for libertarians. How about libertarian only communities where children get to pack heat to kindergarten? No government to interfere in the lives of the people. No police, just everybody with their own guns takin care of their own business. This would definitely put an end to the problems libertarians perceive they have with government. And the rest of us could go about our lives as sane people do.

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      1. Jim

        "Libertarians have a right to do harm to themselves. I would even support legalizing suicide for libertarians. How about libertarian only communities where children get to pack heat to kindergarten? No government to interfere in the lives of the people. No police, just everybody with their own guns takin care of their own business."

        Where do you get the notion, that the FEDERAL government, is the only one who can have laws to protect people????

        States can do it as well. Just because the FEDERAL government isn't doing it, doesn't mean there will be NO law. Get a grip. You have got to be purposely skewing things because you just make some kind of assumption that removing the federal aspect, equates to the removal of all law. How do you come to that conclusion???

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      2. Libertarian777

        wow, clearly you don't understand libertarians.

        If we had a 'libertarian' community (I would be loathe to label it as such, but nevertheless to entertain you) , and there were 2 PRIVATELY run kindergartens, one allows children to 'pack heat' the other doesn't.
        I would choose to send my children to the one that doesn't allow guns (get it? I have the choice. Not the government mandating anything).

        After a few months the other one could compete by also preventing guns on the premises or it could cater to people who choose to give their children guns at a young age. If the one that catered for kids with guns ended up having dozens of children dying, two things would happen. 1. the kindergarten would close down since no rational parent would send their kids there. 2. the parents of those children would be prosecuted for violence, since their children are still minors and are incapable of determining the consequences of their actions at that age. I know its a radical thought, but the goal of kindergartens is to NOT kill the children under their care.

        To take it further, each community would be able to define what the 'legal age of majority is', some could make it 16, others 18, yet others 21 (my assumption is kindergarten children lack legal majority).

        You display a complete lack of understanding of libertarian ideology. Just because there is no 'law on the books' doesn't mean that we are opposed to a restriction being in place. We just don't agree with HOW that restriction is enforced. It should be determined by private individuals through CHOICE (of where they spend their money, where they send their kids to school, what they choose to eat), not through arbitrary government mandates.

        And please tell me, has any anti-suicide law ever prevented any suicide? Libertarians don't want to 'legalise' anything as a matter of fact. They only mention that because people don't understand that NOT having a law 'against' something, only decriminalises it. It doesn't mean we encourage it. Alcohol is legal, does that mean we encourage drunk driving? We just don't believe in prosecuting people for consuming a substance they choose to consume.

        Does the city/county/state you live in have anti-murder laws? Since they have those laws have there been zero murders in your city/county/state?

        Simplifying the pasteurised/unpasteurised milk argument here...
        You want to drink unpasteurised milk with some risk of pathogens... go ahead.
        If you don't want to drink unpasteurised milk... don't.

        The key here... and listen carefully... is YOU CHOOSE. I know that's a hard concept to grasp, but it's what liberty means.

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  16. Lucy76

    People survived unpasteurized milk for thousands of years before Lou Pasteur came along. A HUGE reason why this country is getting so FAT and unhealthy is because of all the "legal" crap that is in our food.

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    1. Michael

      Are you trying to say that libertarians like you are not fat people? LOL And anyway Lucy, don't people have a right to get fat or are you intending to take that away from them too?

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  17. 86THECRITIC

    This guy is wacky... what the hell?

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    1. Michael

      Well, Ron Paul does keep the libertarians busy and off the streets with their guns!

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      1. Jim

        Who is paying you to come in here and distort things? I would like to know. Just curious.

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  18. Black4Skull

    Ron Paul can be deadly to the average brainwashed sheep. He makes too much sense at any given time. The sheep's brain cannot comprehend everything at onceso when it tries to, it will cause the sheep to become insecure because its equilibrium of bliss ignorance has been disrupted. Therefore the sheep must be awakened gradually, one fact at a time. Once open-mindedness persists, sheep can then start to draw connections with facts. Then, the sheep begins the process of becoming an informed citizen

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    1. Libertarian777

      as has been said many times, by many...

      "Ron Paul cured my apathy"

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  19. Dairy

    Thank goodness someone has some sense.

    Thank you for putting this bill forward. My house rep has heard from me this morning and will continue to.

    You may have just won yourself another vote!

    We too have switched to producing our own raw milk. Amazingly, I haven't dropped dead yet!

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  20. njb1335

    You are all a sorry lot of rubes...I understand your positions on freedom and the desire for minimal government intervention in your lives, but this is about the stupidest point ever taken in search of liberty...Pasteurization is one of the most effective and proven methods for sanitation and prohibiting microbial growth in food. Please educate yourselves before you beat your war drum on things you know nothing of...Read a scientific journal article or at the very least Wikipedia some info.

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    1. WOW

      Thank you for your comment, someone who makes sense.

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    2. Jim

      I think that most people pretty much know that pasteurization is a good thing. The problem is the government dictating whether I, as an individual, can CHOOSE to drink milk that is not pasteurized.

      People have drank unpasteurized milk far longer than we have drank pasteurized. Sure, there may have been the occasional problem, but that is more due to cleanliness.

      Address the REAL issue and stop focusing on only the part that you expect to get an emotional response from.

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    3. Michael

      Good comment and I note that it's now six thumbs down and seven thumbs up. On a wacko dominated site like this that's saying a lot.

      So look you Ron Paul supporting wackjobs, your man can't win an election for dogcatcher and you people are too whacked out with your stupid dogma to understand that.

      The question now becomes, do you waste your time supporting a losing cause? Do so please because it at least keeps you off the streets for a while. And it's rillllll entertaining.

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      1. Jim

        You know Michael,

        I have to wonder why you even bother posting on here. You certainly have the RIGHT to, but I question your motive.

        Certainly, you are under no obligation to support or even agree with anything Ron Paul says, but why come in here and stir up trouble?

        If Ron Paul is not the answer, and is just a whackjob as you say, then who is? Who would you support? Who will you vote for? Which candidate will you support?

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  21. Ariana

    Here's the thing... The FDA is in the pocket of big agra-business and that is at least part of why they want to stop small farmers (especially dairy). One of the only way small dairy farmers can survive these days is because they have a product that isn't artificially low in price and can afford to run their farms and take care of their families. Any competition to big farm corp. is seen as a threat. Accordingly, the FDA is using old outdated science to claim that raw milk is dangerous and says that WE are too stupid to read the labels (this is a quote). Even though (for instance) packaged meats are way more dangerous than any raw milk, there's NO label or warning there. The corporocracy of America is in control of our government and not "we the people". Money talks, folks, and the vast majority of us don't have the resources to do what the corporations do and NOW the corporations (because the Supreme Court just gave them this) are counted as people and have the right to use their vast resources to back whomever they want without having to try to hide the fact that they are doing this. So... Even though I disagree with (probably) most of what Ron Paul is about, I'm grateful that he's, at least, trying to stop the FDA from taking our healthful food choices away from us.

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  22. BJColter

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXvRDmM5Zx4

    A video for the Tea Party

    What a guy! President Ron Paul, I say...

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  23. SMD

    I whole heartedly agree with Mr. Ron Paul. His comments on this article are comprehensive and accurate. I so appreciate a man of this stature standing up for personal freedoms in this way. Thank you.

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  24. vic4rp

    They put fluoride in the water and force it on us. I just said these very words this morning.
    How can a country be Free if Govt. can tell us what we can eat and drink?. They actually tell people that FLUORIDE Is good for them. The sad thing is ,most people believe them.
    Even my dentist... What a power hungry,greedy mixed up world we live in. I just wish there was somewhere in this world that we could all live and be free of the dictates of the powers that be.

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  25. GMOMCG

    don't wanna drink unpasteurized milk? don't buy it! - gee that makes sense...

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  26. Kill all NWO Elites

    This Article should be called Fuck FDA.

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  27. RoflmaoAtSheepeople

    Dr paul :You just make to much sence Iv been driking thid kind of milk for 36 years
    Why can people mine their own bees wax dam S-510 bill .Sir when you win get rid of this crap. Ron Paul 2012 win

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  28. snappa52

    4 people agree with Aunty Napolitano that the Amish are radical

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  29. tj

    First, a comment about regulations...for those who still lack faith in free market capitalism, please understand that the invisible hand of free market capitalism is the ultimate regulator. Although Ron Paul wants the federal government out of policing the distribution of milk, ultimately as a libertarian, he wants no government agencies regulating commerce. In Ohio, a food safety bill passed recently. It was supported by major food corporations. Why? Simply, because it places financial burdens on small, roadside farms that try to comply with these regulations. Try selling a tomato from your garden in OHio. Without paying the proper fees and filling out the proper paperwork, you will be a criminal.

    The point is that most of us here want lower taxes, lower government spending, and more personal freedom. And all of this is vital. However, w/out lowering regulations, our freedom and economy will still suffer. Ron Paul knows this.And that is why this is not a minor issue.

    Many here want freedom for themselves. Yet, they want to restrain corporations. Corporations are us. They are voluntary organizations owned by millions of Americans. And...trust me, as the owner of Ford or BOeing (*through my mutual funds) our business plan is not to build cars that explode or planes that crash....That would be bad for business...and we do not need government with their costly regulations, to help us with our production.

    Ron Paul 2012...you are either for FREEDO, or you are not.

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    1. Fem

      That's why I say that by using the current computing capacities there's enough to figure out which of all this little regulations are causing problems. No one should be left out that screening of laws and regulations. No excuses to be left aside to screw a segment of the population later.

      Now, that is a needed profiling, sort of a spring cleaning of the regulation ground that makes the country and population run well.

      Yeah, I like freedom, I like respect, I follow rules and regulations, I don't hurt or abuse people, I have not taken freebies, I've earned what I've got, and I've given a lot in many ways.

      i have not broken the health care system, AND I AM AN IMMIGRANT!

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      1. Libertarian777

        but again you're missing the point.

        Too regulations by and in themselves cause problems.

        While you say you 'follow rules and regulations' one has to ask, if there was no 'law' against murder, would you be running around shooting people at the slightest provocation?

        My guess is no. Most normal people do not do this. The few people who do, will do this regardless of any regulation.

        People often then go and say, well are we going back to the middle ages, or to the 18th century, or the wild west. But the 'wild west' wasn't as 'wild' as Hollywood as portrayed. They did not have daily shootouts at high noon. In fact gunfights were quite rare.

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        1. Guest

          "... if there was no ‘law’ against murder, would you be running around shooting people at the slightest provocation? My guess is no. Most normal people do not do this."

          Are you really suggesting the law is in place to prevent murder? It's there to detail what happens after it's done. So if we don't have a law saying murder is illegal, when someone does commit murder there are no consequences? Laws and regulation are a framework for shared living. Are the current ones all good? Of course not, but your example is a pretty flawed argument for your viewpoint.

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          1. Libertarian777

            While I'm not quite as anarchistic as Murray Rothbard, I do believe laws and regulations should be done at a local level. Not mandated from DC, 2500miles away.

            But to your point, just because there's no law doesn't mean there's no consequences.

            Your question of "Are you really suggesting the law is in place to prevent murder? It’s there to detail what happens after it’s done." is interesting.

            I'm not the one suggesting that, it's the government that is suggesting that a 'law' will prevent something from occurring. E.g. drug prohibition, has that stopped ANYONE from taking drugs? It's resulted in a lot of incarceration, but hardly has it 'stopped' people from consuming drugs.

            So I'm a bit confused as to how a law is there to "detail what happens after its' done". I've yet to see any statute that states how a murder is to be investigated (those are normally police procedures). A law may define certain actions (e.g. rape vs sexual assault, homicide vs murder) but the law is certainly not there to "detail what happens after its' done".

            Or perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you've said.

            I'm not saying (as Rothbard would) that we need NO laws or regulations. I'm just saying we don't need thousands to regulate all of our behaviour. There are few simple guidelines that most people intrinsically know, without requiring a 'law' that has unintended consequences, to be defined in the books

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        2. tj

          To libertarian777...I have been impressed w/ most of your posts...however, I believe you are misrepresenting Murray Rothbard. He was not an anarchist. E simply believed that government jurisdiction should be voluntary. In other words, if you chose not to be subject to a government authority, it would be your right. Now 99.99999 per cent of us would not opt out...simplybecause we know we need protection through the courts of our life and property. Owever, for many others...especially those living on ranches who choose to form their own societies, they should be free to opt out...and not be subject to local, state, or federal authorities.

          Now one of your commentaors mentioned the need for having regulations in place to maintain a civil society. Those of us opposed to regulations are not opposed to having corporations subject to civil or criminal consequences if they harm their consumers. BUt, regulations do not need to be in place prior to the harmful occurrence. If the brakes do not work on a brand new car I purchase, both punitive and compensatory damages can be awarded if I file suit. That is the function of government ...to define and protect property rights, life, and liberty. When there are disputes between 2 or more parties, government should act. But, we do not need the government to set standards for those brakes.

          If I drink milk from a package that says it is raw and may contain "germs" that will make me sick, and then I get sick...I would have no recourse in the courts That is FREEDOM...and it is wonderful.

          Ron PAul 2012...you are either for FREEDOM or you are not

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          1. Libertarian777

            tj... it wasn't this specific article on Rothbard, but nevertheless a good read, where he discusses an anarchist state...
            http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard133.html

            I get the gist of what you are saying, I didn't mean to misrepresent Rothbard.

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  30. Fem2

    The problems go far beyond milk.

    Economy and debt-
    how about hiring a few experts currently unemployed to go over the data available to constructively sit with the experts still employed and do an efficient think tank type of troubleshooting? then come out and explained to the public the results, as well as the proposed solutions. Currency included. There's plenty of technology already available for a public discussion, no need to make more right now.

    So that he population becomes part of the solution and because of that no internal struggle is set in motion. I don't want anymore war.

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    1. Fem3

      If the discussion fails, bail out every ones debt, no one owes anything, and we go into a temporary communism to get back up the basics of food, health, water, education. Every one works, gets trained by rotating through the different positions, everyone gets back into their homes or builds one.

      Meantime the so called experts will have a limited time to come up with a plan for economics, currency, health treatments. But less talk and more factual results, data based solutions.

      Even the probable thousands of laws written will have to be compiled and their utility and applicability verified.

      Something like that. I just got tired of people fighting, though with good reasons, but there's really no answer, rather more complications.

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  31. Fem

    The milk issue? well, non pasteurized milk can be safe to drink, depending on the procedure used at the farm, the storage, and how long is kept. It tastes great right.

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  32. Fem

    The milk issue? well, non pasteurized can be safe to drink, depending on the procedure used at the farm, the storage, and how long is kept. It tastes great right.

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  33. Michael

    Hey tj, you libertarian piece of trash. Don't try to libertarian bait me with your loaded questions you make up to get your point across in your phony way.

    Ron Paul for pwesident? Hahahaha, it takes all kinds and there's one of you born every day.

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    1. Jim

      I have a suggestion for you.

      Go find a copy of the old series, "World at War." In particular, watch the episode called, "A New Germany."

      What do you think will be our "Reichstag?"

      It may not even be necessary at this point actually.

      You need to seriously rethink your attitude about freedom and what it REALLY stands for. This is not a game or "what if" situation. This is real. Just as real as it was in 1939.

      If you want to repeat the the inaction of the world to deal with Hitler, you will reap the same reward.

      This whole NWO thing is already bad. If we do not take steps to stop it, it will become a monster worse than Hitler ever was.

      You come in here and make snide remarks and back it up with nothing. Ask yourself a question. Do YOU want to live in Nazi Germany right here in America? It's a serious question. It could happen pretty easy.

      This is for real, not some XBOX 360 game.

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  34. Michael

    No jim, that's not what he's saying. He's talking about no government control over anything. He's the real thing Jim, a wackjob libertarian. Christ man, if you Ron Paul supporters can't even get his message straight you're dead in the water before it even starts to heat up.

    Ron Paul if opposed to government having the power to tell a private business that it has to serve African Americans. That's only one example of how his libertarians nonsense goes over board. Ron Paul is yesterday's loser and will be tomorrow's loser so long as he has stupid people to bullshit. Like you Jim.

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    1. Jim

      Yes Michael, that is exactly what he is saying. Did you miss my comment about the 'listening?'

      And to be honest, even if I believed your view, I value freedom over being a slave of the bankers.

      As far as stupid people to bullshit, I guess I have to agree with that, the current and past leaders have had plenty of those, me included, time and time again.

      You can kiss the big banks ass all you want, you got a little something on your lip there, but I will not!

      This really comes down to the forces of evil vs good, and you ain't wearing a halo.

      I really don't think you are stupid enough to actually believe the bullshit our media tells us. Maybe you are, I don't know. Seems to be pretty clear that they keep telling us the same fairy tales over and over again, but, somehow, it just never works out like they say.

      Fool me once, shame on you, fool me hundreds of times, shame on me.

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    2. Jim

      "Ron Paul if opposed to government having the power to tell a private business that it has to serve African Americans."

      Don't be a dumbass. What businessman would even do that? Well, to be fair, there probably are some who would. Personally, I wouldn't, but you miss the whole point, freedom is for everyone.

      Maybe some business won't serve white Americans. I wouldn't care, I would just go to some other place. I'm white. I would respect the owners choice. You get it?

      In the grand scheme of things, in the big picture, freedom needs to be for everyone, if someone is dumb enough to do stuff like that, they will suffer the consequences.

      With real freedom, there are some things that probably will be done that some people will not like. The freedom itself is worth it compared to the alternative.

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    3. Libertarian777

      "Ron Paul if opposed to government having the power to tell a private business that it has to serve African Americans."

      That statement is actually the core of it, but the rest of your comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of Libertarian thought.

      Ask the question, who enacted laws to PREVENT black people from riding on buses, trains, and owning land, property and entering stores IN THE FIRST PLACE? It was THE GOVERNMENT.

      Ron Paul is saying government should stay the hell out of the business. Period.
      If you don't want to serve blacks, then fine, you are under NO obligation to. On the other hand the government should NOT RESTRICT some entrepreneur who realises there is a whole market of black people who need goods and services from opening a store next door to the business that does not sell to blacks. This is the other side of the argument that gets lost when people make the comment about libertarians being against the Civil Rights Act.

      However, the government gets involved and says "no blacks on buses". Then 100 years later the government "special access for blacks". How about the government not mandate either way? In fact this is exactly how life was in South Africa BEFORE apartheid. Blacks, whites, indians asians lived in the same neighbourhood, next to each other, played in the streets growing up, went to the same shops. Then the government comes in and passes the Group Areas Act mandating that blacks may not marry whites, that Indians and Chinese are to live in separate areas.

      If the government can mandate you serve a black person, they can mandate that you must buy health insurance (it's for the 'greater good' they'll have you believe), that your kids must take Prozac, that Hispanics must carry proof of immigration ('show me your papers!'... where did we hear that before????). Funny how slippery that slope is.

      Ron Paul is wanting to rid the government of this power in its entirety.

      I love when people talk about 'democracy' and 'freedom', but only 'freedom on my terms' or 'democracy on my terms'. Want democracy in the middle east, Hezbollah will get elected. Want true freedom? well some gay couple next door you don't approve of are going to get married. Well you know what. THAT'S FREEDOM. They get to do what THEY want to do, and YOU get to do what YOU want to do.

      The only restriction is no threat/course of violence, and respect of private property (this includes eminent domain exercises by government).

      50 years ago it was people like you voting for the Group Areas Act preventing black people from buying stuff from white shops.

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  35. bdmenne

    I love raw milk. It taste so much better and feels healthier going down. Don't know how to explain it, it just feels so much more substantial and alive. When most of our food is truck, processed, heated we are eating nothing but death. Give me my vitamins and enzymes intact thank you very much. If you think unpasteurized milk is a killer, you need to do your research.

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