Mika Brzezinski: Joining us now from Las Vegas.
Joe Scarborough: We could have called like some of those people names like…
Mika Brzezinski: Congressman from Texas and Republican Presidential candidate announced last Friday, Representative Ron Paul. Representative, good to have you on the show, it’s Joe still.
Joe Scarborough: Yeah, Joe is still a big…
Mika Brzezinski: Joe [Sans] still for ya.
Joe Scarborough: A big Ron Paul fan, hey let me ask you Ron, it seems and you know this better than anybody, but I’ve always complained that everybody, everybody talks like a small government conservative until they get on the presidential campaign other than you of course and then suddenly they become supporters of the status quo. We saw this with Newt Gingrich, were you surprised that Newt Gingrich called Paul Ryan’s budget radical?
Ron Paul: No, but I would predict that you probably weren’t surprised.
Joe Scarborough: I wasn’t surprised, no.
Ron Paul: No, I’m actually a little bit surprised that it’s so extremely confusing. I mean, I can’t believe it’s gone on for three or four days. He’s had a little bit of experience at politics so it is a little bit strange.
Joe Scarborough: What is your take…?
Mika Brzezinski: Interesting.
Joe Scarborough: On Paul Ryan’s attempt to change the way Medicare is delivered to Americans?
Ron Paul: Well, I give him a lot of credit and I get frustrated because I don’t think it’s going to last that long to deal with it cause I keep thinking the way we spend money and the way the inflation is coming back, we’re going to run up a brick wall a lot sooner, so I don’t fully endorse what he wants but I give him a lot of credit, at least he’s going in the right direction. So going in the right direction is always satisfactory, but it just wasn’t enough for me. We’re cutting to propose increases. There’s never going to be any significant cuts, we’re always increasing and expanding the role of government, no matter what the talk is and the people in the country now are sick and tired of it.
Joe Scarborough: I get you so…
Ron Paul: And it’s just so hard to, pardon me?
Joe Scarborough: I’m sorry we’ve got a delay here, so one of the things that I always find depressing is, somebody puts out a budget proposal like Paul Ryan’s, the left and the media call it radical, and then we find out even under that plan the deficit and the debt grows. It’s kind of like that great budget deal that we supposedly had a couple of months. Originally we heard it cut 38 billion, then it was it cut 300 million, now we hear it’s going to end up costing us 3 billion. Why does government always grow?
Ron Paul: I think it’s the nature of the constituency, the people want stuff from government and we got lazy. This country got lazy and believe that you could live off borrowed money and off other people and we did it for a long, long time. And we were deceived into believing especially since we could print the reserve currency of the world which gave us an access to credit easier than anybody else. But that’s the big problem, that’s coming to an end and we’re not going to have that easy access and that’s the reason the internationalists are thinking about a new currency as well as I’m thinking about a new currency because this doesn’t work. So that’s why we’re up against the wall and the people that are paying the bills are sick and tired of it. So what energizes the Tea Party people is the fact that the debt is too big and the spending is too high, but what energizes the opposition and if you noticed in the streets now, there’s a lot of anger at some of these political rallies and we also have to recognize that the inflation has already started and think about around the world. A lot of those demonstrations against their government has come because the food prices are high. So they were quite satisfied they get stuff from government, now the prices are rising, so I think we’re in big trouble. I think the world is in big trouble with our financial institutions.
Male Panelist: Congressman, you disagreed with the Obama administration’s decision to go into Pakistan and eventually ended up killing Osama bin Laden. You suggested that this is a violation of Pakistani territory which it was, obviously, and that we would have been better off to have relied on the Pakistani government to arrest bin Laden and turn him over to us for trial. But given the contentious relationship we have with Pakistan, how would that have been possible?
Ron Paul: Well, the question that they asked me is whether it could have been done a different way and I said “yes, it could have been done.” When we dealt with Saddam Hussein, we found him in a rat hole and we just didn’t shoot him, we captured him and tried him and he got hung and people know where he is. Right now all we’ve done is raise some questions and fed the people who like conspiracy theories. But, no, the relationship with Pakistan, it’s an impossible situation. Here is a country that we worked with, George Bush worked with them and we captured a lot of bad people that brought over, people responsible for the first bombing of the towers. They were convicted and in prison and we worked with them. But you say “well, we can’t work with them anymore.” But we keep bombing them, we kill innocent people there, how could we at one time take a country and pretend that we recognize that they’re our friend, give them billions of dollars to do our bidding, at the same time we kill people over there and then the people resent this and they turn against their whole government. I see the whole thing is a mess and I think that we are going to be in Pakistan. I think that’s the next occupation and I fear it. I think it’s ridiculous and I think our foreign policy such we don’t need to be doing this, so when I talk about doing it differently, I talk about in the context of our foreign policy and not in the fact of whether or not if we should have got him. Matter of fact, I voted for the first authority. I think what’s the real tragedy is is that we didn’t get him 10 years ago when we could have and should have. And yet we now have spent a trillion dollars, we’ve lost 5,000 people, our soldiers in fighting two wars that had nothing to do with bin Laden and to me we have to reassess the foreign policy just like we have to reassess our economic policy…
Male Panelist: Well the implication of part of the answer that you just gave is that you feel that the Bush administration handled Pakistan better than the Obama administration has, is that correct?
Ron Paul: I think when we went after the bad guys they cooperated with us, so why shouldn’t you assume that they could do this again. But I also understand why the situation is much worse and that’s why you can’t see this as an isolated incident. You have to look at this in the context of our foreign policy why we are having difficulty. Yeah, I do think in some terms, of course I was a strong critic of the foreign policy of George Bush II because he missed the target in Afghanistan at Tora Bora and he went off fighting a war in Iraq that we should have never fought. So no, but I just said that he was able to at least work with the security and the government of Pakistan and we got a lot of bad guys over here and I was just thinking the way Saddam Hussein was captured was quite a bit different and I just think there’s more questions now than ever. How many stories have we heard already about the killing of bin Laden? I mean people are supposed to know what their government is doing. And if you asked me exactly what happened I have no idea because I’ve heard so many stories and I don’t know if anybody there on your panel knows exactly what happened on the day when he actually died and when they got the DNA evidence and when he was dropped, I mean I just think the people need to know more about their government.
Mika Brzezinski: Alright.
Willie Geist: I do not have any information on that, sorry to report.
Male Panelist: Really you don’t know, nobody knows. So but that’s a conspiracy theory that you just…
Mika Brzezinski: That’s what I feel like just happened; did you just put out a conspiracy theory, Congressman Ron Paul?
Joe Scarborough: No.
Ron Paul: I think the inept policy invites people to think about conspiracy theories because we don’t get all the evidence and I think that’s where we are now. I think there will be plenty of conspiracy theories because we’re presented facts that were changing almost on a daily basis.
Willie Geist: Congressman, it’s Willie Geist. I just want to follow up on something you said a minute ago that you suspect Pakistan will be the place United States occupies next. Do you have information on that? Or that implies some sort of an invasion?
Ron Paul: No.
Willie Geist: Why do you say that?
Ron Paul: Just because I looked at what has happened in the past 30 or 40 years of all the unintended consequences and what we have done and how we are spreading and the attitudes that has been pervasive in our government for the past 10 years that we have this obligation to spread our goodness and protect our financial interest and right now Pakistan is a big problem. And the people there, we have created a civil war there and the fact that we go over there and we violate their security and the people rebel against the government because they see their government as being a puppet of the American government, so it’s total chaos and I’m afraid — I hope I’m absolutely wrong — but I’m afraid we will be in Pakistan trying to occupy that country and it will probably be very unsuccessful.
Mika Brzezinski: Alright, Congressman Ron Paul, thank you for being on the show today.
Ron Paul: You’re welcome.
Joe Scarborough: Thank you. Thank you, Ron.