It appears VOICEOFREASON has taken over his discussion and is using it to promote his own agenda. Tell you what, VOICEOFREASON, why don't you suggest Israel obey its constitution, remove the illegal settlements and leave the occupied territories, abandon the argument of "preemptive war" and sign the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty? Then, Israel might get along as well with her neighbors as the Jews of Iran get along with Iran's government.
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You sound like you have your head really far up your ass. Looks like it too.
@Dennis Johnson@RobertFallin I have looked at your profile Dennis and you do little more than insult people. I would have expected someone who served in the military to be better behaved as I have 3 members of my family that are currently serving and all of them would find your behaviour atrocious.
@History Buff@Dennis Johnson@RobertFallin
No he's the one that shots everybody at a party,because noone likes him and then runs into the woods killing as he goes.
He was the soldier nobody wanted so he is bitter at the world and doesn't know how to deal with it.
Dennis, I've scraped better things off my shoes than you. You are about as welcome here as jock itch.
Who's your favorite clown, Dennis? Bozo? Krusty? Barack Obama? Yourself?
Hey, anyone else want to play "wack a mole" with Dennis Johnson.
@RobertFallin Very funny....According to his comment history it is probably what he deserves as well...
Thanks, Dennis. People such as Dennis have their brains wired for generic insults and comebacks. They expect people to defend themselves. I simply gut individuals like Dennis with hisr own words. @History Buff
@RobertFallin This the last thing I wrote to him and he hasn't replied since. Thought you might find it funny. I found out he was a marine from his profile.
Spoken like a true and good gun-toting Christian marine, which is of course an oxymoron..........
Heck, I been filled with all that there knowledge stuff I ever needed to know since I was in training camp. Don't really remember much before that. Just need to know where my government issued gun is and be pointed in the right direction. If I gots any questions about life I just call my old drill sergeant and he fills in those blanks for me>>>
satire of course
Good response. Most of the marines I have know have shown more manners than Dennis. @History Buff
@RobertFallin I completely agree. I have a lot of family in the military and none of them would behave in such an atrocious manner.
I could have been far more scathing but then I wouldn't be much better behaved than him. I am somewhat new to this kind of social interaction and I am a bit surprised at just how ugly and vicious peoples minds are. I am very well travelled and have lived in 4 different countries but there is something sinister about people putting their sickest thoughts in writing to attack others on here. I know it is mostly just a ploy and other people have been through far worse for defending their beliefs. It hasn't phased me in that way whatsoever. It just obviously shows how bitter and twisted some people have become.
Don't bullshit everyone or yourself. You don't know any Marines. There isn't any Marine, former or active, that would fall for your drivell.
LOL. No, my favorite clown now is RobertFallin that should be scrapping that Jock itch off his face.
@Dennis Johnson@RobertFallin LOL...My stepdad was a marine when he fought in Korea. He then went to Washington University and came back but into the Army instead. He served 20 years and retired as Lieutenant Colonel. He then became a police officer and served another 20 years and ran the polygraph department before eventually retiring. He and my mother married when I was 11. I have 2 nephews who are not coming home for Christmas because they are being held in Reserve in Iraq in case Iran decides to attack Iraq or it escalates. My stepfather and I still talk about politics and he is a die hard Republican. While we disagree on certain topics we show each other respect and civility at all times. He is 10 times the marine you are for all the reasons you have already proven on this site. You are not a gentleman nor a person of quality. I think if he read your comments he would question if you served a full tour or got a dishonourable discharge of some kind. Actually he wouldn't because he would have asked you to show some decorum and then boycotted you when you were unable to do so...
Well, Dennis, your favorite marine should be Major General Skedley Butler, who said "War is a Racket"; and, if he were living, would be supporting Ron Paul, not making an ass of himself as you continually do at this site. Now, why don't you leave, like a good little boy, instead of stinking the place up with your childish, unwarranted attacks?
@RobertFallin My agenda is simply truth RobertFallin. What you mean by "taking over his (my) own discussion" I haven't a clue. As I explained before, did Israel strike first in 67. Yes. The reason: The Armies of Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Egypt were massing at their borders, in what was to be yet another attempt at the extermination of Israel. Nasser himself admitted that closing the gulf of Aqaba was tantamount to war. All Arab leaders rallied their armies to genocide. Israel surveyed the situation and took action. Moreover, Jordan was not initially attacked, as Israel attempted to persuade Jordan it would not attack if attacked, and it had no territorial ambitions. The so called "occupied territories" were taken as a defense perimeter, and Israel has shown in Sinai and Gaza it will return these to the aggressor nations in exchange for peace.
And actually, I'm opposed to the settlements myself, or their expansion. But lets face facts, there was no offer of peace by any Arab country before the settlement issue. The settlements have nothing to do with the desire of Arab governments to achieve peace.
As for the Jews of Iran comment, you are a very sick person.
Thats to logical for him to understand...DUH. Some people just don't see basic logic Robert.It's funny how much common sence can be summed up in one paragraph.
Thanks, Cukester. Truth is a great disinfectant. @cukester @RobertFallin
Philosophical Ranter: (President) Ron Paul - A Real Breath of Fresh Air
The latest poll out of Iowa now has Ron Paul polling at 27.5 percent.
Ron Paul is the ONLY one of the Republicans running that has any common sense, and Ron Paul apparently is the only one who even cares about the general public in our nation. Ron Paul should feel very sure of himself. I am so sick and tired of all the stupid 'high school' type games the candidates are playing - like a popularity contest. IF WE WANT ANYTHING TO CHANGE WE JUST HAVE TO ELECT A MAN WITH COUTH WHO HAS COMMON SENSE AND THE GUTS TO SAY WHAT IS RIGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY.
Speaking of NAZIism, Zionists collaborated with Germany during WWII, picking and choosing those who be allowed to leave Europe, run the British blockade and enter Palestine. The infamous Stern Gang, of whom former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin was a member, received training by the NAZIs in terrorist activities later practiced in Palestine before the partition. The Zionists must have learned their lessons well, as they used the "Hitler" (and, later, "George W. Bush") excuse of "preemptive war" to attack Israel's neighbors, seizing and occupying lands land held for the last 44 years. Israel then violated her own constitution by refusing to accept UN Resolution 242 and return to her pre-1967 borders. By the way, during the 1967 war, Israel strafed, napalmed and nearly sunk the USS Liberty, killing many US sailors. Even though the US went along with UN Resolution 242, it has block any UN "peace keeping" forces from forcing Israel back to her pre-1967 borders. Several Arab States, including Egypt, fed up with UN inaction and US hypocrisy, attacked Israel on Yom Kippur, in 1973. When Israel's air fleet was nearly destroyed, President Richard Nixon resupplied Israel and Israel captured even more territory. Later, President Jimmy Carter bribed Israel with $3 billion US taxpayers dollars to return land captured from Egypt during the Yom Kippur War and the
US has been bribing Israel ever since. By the way, Israel is a CREDITOR nation (national surplus), while the US is the world's largest DEBTOR nation.
@RobertFallin Thank you Robert I often feel very informed after reading some of your comments. You teach me new things and remind of information that I have forgotten over the years. I am mainly a studier of Napoleon, World War2 and Ancient History so I am still playing catch up with modern history...Thanks again
My pleasure, History Buff. If you like great history films, plus outstanding martial arts, I strongly recommend "Red Cliff" Parts 1 and 2. I watch the "short" version, which combines the two films, on Netflix Instant. It runs 2 hrs, 25 minutes, but tells the tale of the uniting of China in, I believe, the second century AD. Outstanding movie, exciting, romantic, profound, beautiful and, I understand, pretty historically accurate. @History Buff
@RobertFallin Thanks Robert...China's history has always fascinated me and there is so much to learn about it that you could spend years on it and still have a lot left to learn.
@RobertFallin The Stern gang, was as you said a FACTION. I.e. a small part of the Jewish underground, that yes hated Britain and Stern did ATTEMPT to get help to fight the British. But how you take the actions of an extremist faction and paint the entire movement with such a broad brush, link and ATTEMPT BY A MINORITY, is a leap of logic I cant explain. The Irgun, which Begin was a member split with this policy of accepting axis aid to fight the British. Begin's revolt began in 44 almost 2 years after Stern was dead. Yes, the Germans allowed Jews to emigrate to Palestine, to COMPOUND PROBLEMS FOR THE BRITISH. To use that to equate Zionism to Nazism is pretty vile.
Did Israel attack first in 67? Yes, but why did they? Egypt closed the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping, seen as an act of war by the international community. Nasser said: "We knew the closing of the Gulf of Aqaba meant war with Israel.....the objective was Israels destruction".
As for the USS liberty, the only people who still talk about that are anti-semitic neo nazi conspiracy types (Ron Paul vanguard). The NSA has declassified their investigation, and found it to be an accident of war. Here it is: http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/uss_liberty/attack_sigint.pdf
As for Israel exploiting the Holocaust, just get a life. The Zionists did not use any Hitler excuse, it was over Egypt closing the Gulf OF Aqaba, even Nasser admitted that. The war launched by the Arab states goal was genocide, Israel kept a security perimeter and has always been willing to exchange that perimeter for peace, as it has in Sinai, and Gaza.
Ah, finally got a rise out of you. Only two flags were allowed to be flown in NAZI Germany, the Swastika and THE STAR OF DAVID, which represented Zionism. "To equate Zionism to NAZIism is pretty vile." Well, NAZIism hypothesized a "Master Race," Zionism hypothesizes a "chosen people," WHETHER OR NOT they adhere to Abraham's covenant with God. Besides, you equate Ron Paul with Isolationism and Appeasement. That's pretty vile, by your own standards. Oh, by the way, let's not forget Israel's secret pact with Apatheid South Africa to produce a nuclear bomb during the 1970s. Regarding the '67 war, you say Israel considered closing the Gulf of Aqaga an "act of war". Oh, you mean like Roosevelt's oil embargo against the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbor? Are you equating Israel's sneak attack on Arab states to Japan's sneak attack on Pearl Harbor?. As far as the U.SS. Liberty is concerned, the only people who still consider Israel not culpable are Zionist "Israel can do no wrong" apologists, who also apologize for Israel's commando attack on an unarmed Turkish Peace Flotilla delivering drugs and needed supplies to the Palestinians. Admiral's Kidd and Moorer both considered the Navy's investigation of the USS Liberty a coverup conducted by none other than John McCain's daddy. Besides Joe "end the (Vietnam) Lieberman, the biggest cheerleader for violence against Muslims in the Middle East is John McCain. Which war was "launched by the Arab states," the one launched after the UN gave the minority Jewish population most of the good land during the 1947 partition (a decision even the United States condemned) or the one in 1973, after Israel violated its own constitution to follow the UN Charter, which also means
complying with UN Resolution 242, withdrawing from the occupied territories? If Arabs states are so interested in "genocide" of the Jews, why did so many Jews refuse to emigrate to Israel from Muslim Iraq and Muslim Iran? I have a life, thank you; and I agree with CIA Analyst Michael Scheuer, when he told Jon Stewart "The State of Israel is not worth one American life," especially mine.
Thank you for bringing up the USS LIBERTY attack. For that reason alone we should have our heads examined for being Israel's attack dog.
@RobertFallin The first third of your post here makes no sense whatsoever and clearly shows you need psychological help. And you don't get a "rise" out of me at all Robert, as you are totally unoriginal and these are bunk claims are repeated on all neo-nazi, Islamo-fascist websites.
"Oh, you mean like Roosevelt's oil embargo against the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbor"- Did the US surround Japan as well with Battle ships and and attempt a genocidal war previously, and continuously sponsor guerrilla raids against Japan in the meantime? There is simply no comparison.
"Are you equating Israel's sneak attack on Arab states to Japan's sneak attack on Pearl Harbor?". - No, you are.
And no RobertFallin, the only people who talk about the USS liberty are anti-semite conspiracy theorist neo-nazi types. It was an accident at war, I gave you the evidence.
As for Jews in Iraq and Iran, why should they leave if they feel that's their country? And in Iraq, historically they have been been treated horribly. Ever hear of the Farhud? Read Edwin Black, the Farhud.
@RobertFallin UN resolution 242 also stated that peace and an end to belligerency and every state has the right to be secure and recognized. Egypt and Jordan met this criteria, and Israel complied. You obviously don't know anything about the history of this conflict or region that you don't read on goofy conspiracy websites. I suggest you read UN resolution 242. There are responsibilities for both sides. There is criteria to be met. These are basic facts.
And what is with the random mentioning of trivia? You cant respond to any facts, none of you anti-Israeli types can. You just rant common hate themes and garbage, lies that circulate on the Internet and totalitarian countries. That flotilla incident was completely legal under international law, and was a flotilla filled with insane people. Moreover, Iran has been smuggling weapons even a hate monger like yourself cant deny that. Thousands of rocket attacks. And nobody doubts Syria and Egypt launched a surprise attack on Israel in 73, on Yom Kippur no less.
And Robert, get over yourself, your life is not at risk.
"the UN gave the minority Jewish population most of the good land during the 1947 partition (a decision even the United States condemned) - ??? What is your source for that? The Arabs, like I said rejected partition and denied Palestine, or Palestinians existed.
@RhondaReichel If Israel attacked the United States USS Liberty (which they did, I agree), how is the United States Israels attack dog? What was the strategy there? How does the attack on the USS Liberty jive with your idea of the United States being Israels attack dog? And what country has this "attack dog" the United States attacked for Israel. Its statements like these that show how hatred inhibits ones ability to think clearly.
"And what is it with the random mentioning of trivia? You can't respond to any facts, none of you anti-Israeli types can." No, I don't have Mossad's database of information at my fingertips, as you apparently do. Speaking of Mossad, do you have any comment on the "dancing Israelis," Mossad agents who stood on the roof of a building near the World Trade Center and "danced with glee" before they were arrested? When they returned to Israel, one of them told Israeli TV they were there to "document the event."
"The UN gave the minority Jewish population most of the good land during the 1947 partition..." What good would it do for me to cite a source? All you would do is discredit the source and you would expect everyone to believe you BECAUSE YOU TOLD US. I'd hardly say you are the VOICE OF REASON. BTW, I noticed you didn't respond to my citing your comparison of Israel's sneak attacks on the Arab States in 1967 to Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.
My life is not at risk. You Israeli apologists are pushing the US into a war with Iran that could start World War III. That puts ALL of our lives at risk.
@RobertFallin Dancing Israelis? I heard about that on Fox News early after 9/11. Are you implying Israel did 9/11? If you site the source I will comment, but that sounds like more b,s. I understand that news report circulated. I cant attest to its veracity. And clarify what you are getting at with that.
No, the reason you cant cite the source to the UN giving Israel all the good land, ill comment on it fairly. You cant though, because it does not exist. I would suppose that would mean that the UN surveyed all the land, determined what was good/bad land and then produced a document about giving all the good land to Israel. No such document exists.
i told you before, Ill post and cite anything you want. Most of this is common knowledge anyway and easily found in newspaper reports of the time, or google books. I told you about the Arab Higher Committees argument to the UN is on google books.
As for Pearl Harbor/67. Yes I did, your comparison is not valid. The Japanese attack was an aggressive action, there were no US Army/US Naval forces poised to invade Japan, or surrounding Japan prior to the attack. There was no history of low intensity conflict sponsored against Japan by the United States in the last 20 years. Nor was there a previous war of attempted genocide launched against Japan by the United states 20 years prior.
I'm not an Israeli apologist. That assumes they did something to deserve to apologize for. But for you, I suppose you mean "existing". I do not advocate or push for war with Iran, nor do I think the US would support Israel if it attacked Iran. That's just part and parcel of the Jews/US conspiracy world view you espouse.
You have clearly identified yourself as a "dual citizen," and it also clearly obvious which country you favor when their interests do not coincide. As such, you have a moral, if not legal, obligation to 1) support the side of the country in which you live 2) emigrate to the country whose allegiance you most share 3) Register yourself as an "agent of a foreign power". You call me part of the Jews/US conspiracy." No, it is a "Zionist/US conspiracy." I have considerably more contempt for Christian Zionists, who welcome the destruction of Israel as part of "God's" plan for a Second Coming. As you have pointed out, not all Jews favor war with Iran. I just don't happen to believe you are one of them. Congressman Paul has a far more benign view of Israel than I, yet you come to this website to attack him. Quite frankly, I don't think any of us care for your views, your dishonest nickname "VOICEOFREASON" for a pro-Isreal propagandist. nor your condescending attitude, which is consistent with a culture that uses the word "cattle" (goyim) to refer to those who do not share that culture. @VOICEOFREASON
Oh, I almost forgot, since you mix truth and lies and don't cite your sources, I will simply suggest you go to YouTube and search "Dancing Israelis". Who knows, you might learn something.
Say, "Hello" to Jonathan Pollard the next time you see him.
well said Robert
Romney is totally vulnerable....he's a globalist Massachusetts liberal
Ron Paul needs to repeatedly attack Romney on the most awful thing he ever did -- Romneycare. There is NO way he can deny or rationalize that.
Ron Needs to emphasize to all Republican candidates that REPEALING Obamacare should be priority one beginning immediately on Jan. 20, 2013.
The problem is Iran did not ever say that they would wipe Israel off the map....the translation was done wrong.....what he said is that Israel will be erased from the pages of time....in other words Israel's policies would be their own undoing ....google it if you don't believe me
Iran hasn't attacked anyone in 300 years. An expert on nuclear weapons said on Greta the other night that even if we were to attack Iran that it would only delay them getting nukes by 1 1/2 years at best so it's stupid to start WWIII for that.
@RhondaReichel You channel the anti-war fools of pre-WWII in San Francisco and NY in those times, to say nothing of channeling one of that time period's greatest idiots: Neville Chamberlain, the same guy incidentally who helped crush Irish freedom.
I've looked at the incredulous words of Hitler's generals as they saw the unfolding spectacle of mass cowardice erupting in Britain and the USA, . . . barely able to contain their laughter as they slapped each other on the back.
You may not know that Iran is the Persian word for Arian, that Iran's leaders during WWII changed the name, their centuries-long name: Persia, for their land, doing so in cultural solidarity with Hitler's drive to kill all of the Jews.
I've heard speakers whose people had lived in Southern Lebenon for centuries tell of their people being systematically mass-murdered by Iran's Hezbollah army of killers, so you, from the comfort of your carpeted computer room, utterly fail to realize that the war is already on, that it's being fought across the Middle East, that it's only "other people" who get to die while you sit and read the lies of US MSM.
@Miguel526 You know little about why the USA got into WWII....Americans were not wanting to get involved and did not until Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and Germany DECLARED WAR ON THE USA. In fact the president was going behind the public's back and doing operations under the guise of protecting trade ships. The politicians wanted to enter the war....the public did not. Just as the majority of citizens do not want war now.
We are not the world policemen but if we were we should be paid for it. To me no pay would be enough. Israel has over 200 nukes now. They can protect themselves.
You are about one Goofy Bitch. You don't know shit about any of this crap you are puking out.
@Dennis Johnson@RhondaReichel@Miguel526 If you can't show more decorum then you can keep your comments to yourself.
@Dennis Johnson@Miguel526 Thanks....I always enjoy offending vulgarians
Care to back that up with some facts?
I thought not.
@History Buff@Dennis Johnson@Miguel526 He was obviously raised by wolves....or in a barnyard....or a pool hall
@Dennis Johnson@Miguel526 Dennis....why is your head pointed?
@RhondaReichel@Dennis Johnson@Miguel526 Don't care where he was raised but this is a forum for open discussion. Ok Rhonda, you have made your point. Can you please stop antagonizing him even though I understand the feeling of wanting to strike back.
@Dennis Johnson @Miguel526 watch this Dennis
Assault on the U.S.S. Liberty part 1/3 - YouTube"History Counts'" host Ken MacDermotRoe speaks with James Ennes, an officer on board the USS Liberty when it was attacked by Israeli planes and torpedo ...
@History Buff @Dennis Johnson @Miguel526 Hee hee...I think his remarks call for some "antagonizing"....after I've had my way with him maybe I'll give up. I cannot stand people who try to discredit others by his methods and I refuse to let some vulgarian insult me in that manner.
Backing down from a bully only means you are a punk....and I'm no punk.
I can prove what I've said here and don't mind at all providing the proof so from now on I intend to educate this bully.
@RhondaReichel@dennis@Miguel526@history I don't back down from them either but I don't like ill manners and name calling. I guess I am getting tired of all the ugliness on the internet and I am trying to make something more positive of the time I spend on it. I understand your sentiments though and got temporarily sucked into that with Voiceof Treason.
@RhondaReichel@dennis@Miguel526 So what it if was a mistake in a very tense and violent region. Maybe it wasn't a mistake. Maybe Israel felt threatened by the US being there? But no, that couldn't be...we all know the Israel runs the United States, or does the United States run Israel? I always seem to forget..
here again, is the full investigation...
@History Buff@RhondaReichel@dennis@Miguel526@history No HIstory Buff, you avoided my arguments, ranted like a fool, then ran like a coward.
@History Buff@RhondaReichel@dennis@Miguel526@history and if i remember buff guy, you threatened me twice and said "nobody is dumb enough to fight me" like an immature 17 year old.
@VOICEOFREASON@RhondaReichel@dennis@Miguel526@history Bollocks. I answered your questions one by one. You are very likely to be a good gun toting Christian. If you are then that is an oxymoron and you no longer part of the intellectual process. Nobody wants to listen to you and that is simply because you extremely abrasive and very one-sided. You not the voice of reason whatsoever. Now go and find an audience that will listen to your rantings.
@VOICEOFREASON@RhondaReichel@dennis@Miguel526@history You were dumb enough to slander someone with vile words that you don't even understand the defintion of.
@History Buff@RhondaReichel@dennis@Miguel526@history You did not answer any questions, History buff you ran around in circles. Abrasive? You were mocking a poster and I gave you what you deserved. Then you threatened me twice. i'm not one sided. I just don't sympathize with Americas enemies the way you do. And I am not religious at all. A fascist is a commonly used epithet to describe someone like yourself and your allies on this site. Anti semitic, anti American, and violent. This is not slander when it comes to you or your friend Robert who just implied Israel was responsible for 9/11. Or for you, who implied that we deserved it. Go coddle Americas enemies, Now you go coddle Americas enemies and the dictators of the world under the guise of anti-militarism or anti-imperialism as fascists do.
@History Buff@RhondaReichel@dennis@Miguel526@history Again, an epithet. Look it up. It is commonly used. Like if I called you a douche bag, I don't literally mean you are a shower object, just a cheesy looser. And yes, if you look at your criticisms or the USA and Israel they are the same as those individuals many would call fascist. A commonly used term.
@History Buff@RhondaReichel@dennis@Miguel526@history You avoided all the points I made and just rambled. And again, fascist is an epithet, commonly used to describe people of your view point. Just like as if I called you a douche bag, I would not mean a bathroom item, but that you are a cheesy fool. Fascists commonly used anti-militarism and anti-imperialism as a guise for anti-Americanism, or anti semitism. This is true of your friend Robert, who just implied Israel did 9/11, as well as your self who implied we deserved it yesterday. it also fits you because of your threats of violence toward me, which you posted yesterday, and your touting of you violent physical status, and over what? A political argument. So yes, I would call that pretty fascistic.
This is a really hard looik at our foreign policy & blowbackWe have been lied to for years....it's time we called them on their lies and stopped this useless killing You aren't going to enjoy WWIII ....trust me--- It will be nuclear
Some facts that people refuse to face - it's time we faced them
Did you see this on Greta last Friday night? Military analyst stated attacking Iran will only delay them getting nukes for about 1 1/2 years...not stop them. Plus they can fight us...not like Iraq or Afghanistan. Russia and China have already said they will not allow it. We are BANKRUPT. China is not going to give us the money to attack their oil supplier either.
Yep and we are the ones attacking in the middle east
this NEOCON blood lust will kill us all
@Miguel526@RhondaReichel You are seriously going to try and tack Iran as being the same as Hitler and the third Reich? Now Miguel you seem reasonable but that is beyond the pale. We are and have been the manipulating aggressors. At best our Fed has been shortsighted and unsophisticated when it comes to foreign policy and at worst our Federal government has been downright devious and deceitful in its dealings with the Middle East. The Germans where part of an old world of European Empire building and wanted their share. What they didn't do was to attack people in far away continents like all the other (good) empires of Europe... Silly Man Hitler...Iran has more reasons than any to be angry with us.We have been messing with their government and way of life since 1953. If Muslims really wanted to get us with a nuclear device they would have looked to Pakistan a long time ago. As far as a conventional war nobody could seriously threaten us. We have year after year spent more than the next 15-20 countries (combined) on military spending. Usually around $700,000,000,000 a year. I would rather risk my life letting a bomb go off in a mall than live in a world that has almost no chance for peace with the course we have been heading unto for decades. We helped partition Israel into a country in 1947 and it has been a continual volatile region ever since. To try and equate Neville Chamberlain to Ron Paul makes me think that you are not as credible as I once thought.
@History Buff@Miguel526 Absolutely right history buff....Miguel doesn't remember the Shah of Iran fiasco evidentially, nor all the other invasions and meddling we have been doing ever since WWII.
TRADE IN PEACE WITH ALL NATIONS is the best policy
FIGHT TO WIN is the best defense
ONLY WITH A DECLARATION OF WAR BY CONGRESS is the proper way we should have been conducting ourselves all along
@RhondaReichel@Miguel526 I agree 100% Rhonda...It is amazing that Ron Paul has stood in there all those years and has never given up despite all the BS going on around him. We as a nation and as voters have to stop being so self serving and think what is best for everyone both here and abroad. It would be great to be thought of as a nice and helpful nation once again rather than a meddling, invading, empire building one. Watch Dylan Moran on Americans...really funny!!!
@History Buff@RhondaReichel There's an awful lot here, but I assure you that I was not connecting RP to Neville Chamberlain. I was connecting Mr. Chamberlain to R.Reichel's earnest & hopeful beliefs. Anyone who's read the fifth-grade-level MSM stories in the last years knows all of these arguments put forth herein by the both of you, some of which are credible, some not so much..
For instance, I totally agree with RR's loud statement that "Trade in peace with all nations" is the best policy. And I agree with her "Fight to win" is the best defense. The devil's in the details. The murdered communities in South Lebanon (entirely unreported) are evidence that Iran's gunmen aren't playing by those rules. . . and the US cannot be blamed for the centuries of pre-exiting hatred in the Mid-East before we stepped in. A Moslem thing. I'm sure did (and are doing) many things incorrect, even as there was intent to do good.
Again, I think myself and too many of all of us here are unloading too much of our pent-up accuse-ational assumptions onto the first slow-moving pickup we see driving by.
I think many of us can agree with what a guy named George said on a comment thread I saw recently, when he said, "Intellectuals have to generate and spread hate and envy. It's what they do best".
We need more agreement, if we can, and less anti-Americanism and belief that we alone are the smartest, most knowledgeable people around. As a former democrat in CA, I can attest that we alone at any certain time can be dumb as dirt.
On the way out of this comment, I know that anti-war people in the US and Britain were in the distinct minority, afraid to face what the rest of the people had known for years was coming.
Merry Christmas and Best Wishes to you both.
@Miguel526@RhondaReichel That sounded at lot more like the Miguel I have read before and I feel a lot better replying to you. Thank you
As for UK anti-war polls being in the minority I disagree. They did not want to go into Iraq and the only time that changed was for a few weeks after the bombings in Bali Indonesia killing scores of Australians and Indonesians. Afghanistan was another story entirely.
They had over a million people shut down the center of London in protest against Iraq unless we could show some definite proof and Tony Blair took them in anyway. How do I know this? Because I was and still am living in the UK and marched on London at the time. I am soon moving back to the States and after visting family will be moving to California.
I try not to deal with accusations but I have been watching this build up for decades and I am not anti-American just a person who has little trust for the Federal government. I am very objective and try and walk in other peoples shoes.
Let's face it Miguel if you were in Iran, Iraq, Egypt or almost any other Middle Eastern country would you trust us? I think I would be fairly sceptical given our track record.
Yes Rachael I had seen that before but thank you for the link. I do hope you take a look on you tube for Dylan Moran on Americans...All of us need to laugh at ourselves from time to time.
Freedom and best wishes to you both..
This site just stole my long, positive and carefully crafted comment, so temporarily I am stopping here as I'm so busy, but this is the second time this site has destroyed my commentary. Definitely, I'm dubious.
@History Buff@Miguel526@RhondaReichel "What they didn't do was to attack people in far away continents like all the other (good) empires of Europe.."
Ever hear of German West Africa, or German East Africa? The Herero or the Maji Maji?
"We have been messing with their government and way of life since 1953."
The CIA coup in 1953 placed a former Pro Nazi general (Fazollah Zahedi) and Ayatollah Kashani, the Khomeni of his day, assisted the CIA in the effort. In other words, we backed the Islamic forces in Iran against the nationalist Mossedegh. A little known fact, but a fact none the less. If it was not for the Islamist forces, there would have been no coup, just read any NY times article from the period. The Islamist forces in Iran, never mention this, western sources today hardly do as well.
"If Muslims really wanted to get us with a nuclear device they would have looked to Pakistan a long time ago"
That's because the Pakistani government has as much, if not more to fear from that as we do. Not because Islamic radicals wouldn't like to.
"We helped partition Israel into a country in 1947 and it has been a continual volatile region ever since"
Israel created itself, despite US wavering. Israel accepted the UN plan, the Arabs rejected it, with the Arab Higher committee DENYING PALESTINE EXISTED and claiming THERE WAS NO SUCH PEOPLE AS PALESTINIANS.
(part 2) continued
There has been a long, continuous love affair with Nazism in the Arab world. The most influential and powerful leader of the Arab Higher committee during the mandate period, Hajj Amin al Husseni was a Nazi agent, and implicit in the holocaust. You can find many pictures on line of Jordanian military, Hesbollah, giving fascist Nazi salute. Many German war criminals escaped to Arab world after the war to continue their activities against the nascent Jewish state.
So I would say, when people like Ron Paul try to present the Arab case in a sympathetic light, and single out Israel for condemnation, when they misrepresent the nature of the forces that are running the Islamic world today. (As in Egypt where the continuing rise of the Moslem Brotherhood, whose founder was another Nazi sympathizer) yes they are much like the fools of the 1930's, and 1940's. Like the aforementioned disgraced British leader.
These are not "freedom fighters", these are not "national liberation movements", they are fascist movements. They do more to hurt the Arab world than do a thing for it, as always. And when you make excuses for them, when you misrepresent them, and when your 2 main political bugaboos are Bankers and Israel (like Ron Paul). Yes, Id have to say you are a fascist. Although, I can understand how good people, in chaotic economic times, with no understanding of what they are talking about can get drawn into the sick, sad, deranged world of Ron Paul.
@VOICEOFREASON@Miguel526@RhondaReichel You wouldn't know sarcasm if bit you in the ass because you left out what you wanted to make your point about Germany. Germany had no Empire compared to England or France. Hell even Belgium had as much of Africa at the time. Keep on typing but how about our role in backing the Nationalists in China against the Communist. Does Taiwan and complete mistrust ring a bell? No such people as Palestinians. Yeah and Texans don't exist either. They were there hundreds of years before the call for Jews to come back to their homeland no matter idiotic things governments say. There were far less Jews in the region than Muslims when UN decided to partition the area. Many Nazis also escaped to Argentina so are we supposed to see them in a bad light. Israel may not deserve condemnation but neither does it deserve to be seen without its history since 1947coming to light. You are really talking bunk, calling me a fascist. Look the term before you slander someone who is the complete opposite. If we were in a pub you would be knocked out on the floor for such a comment. Go talk rubbish somewhere else...
@VOICEOFREASON@Miguel526@RhondaReichel My bugaboos as you like to call them is a foreign policy where we constantly meddle in other countries governments and a call to military action far to easily and where we are not wanted. Like Vietnam where it was a French war to begin with because they were trying to play Empire after WW2. the Vietnamese still call our part in it the American War to this day. All together between 2-4 million people killed in the region and it accomplished so very little. Amazing how all these wars have huge tolls on life and property, accomplish little and makes the world a more dangerous and untrusting place to live.
1) Threaten me with violence? Pretty fascistic to me.
2) The question was NEVER ABOUT who had the most imperialism Germany, France, or British Empire. YOU SAID GERMANY HAD NONE. AND YOU WERE WRONG. I quoted you directly don't try to change the topic.
3) You are talking in circles. Just like your man Ron Paul does when someone calls him out on his BS. Random mentioning of things proves nothing. (China, Argentina, Taiwan) Just evasion.
4) Argentina did not attack the US. Did they? I mean you are the history "buff" maybe I don't know. Anyway Argentina is not the problem, not the topic. Never was. This was about Islamic terror, its sponsors, and those who try to deny the facts. Stop trying to evade the point.
5) What about the history since 1947? Israel was attacked every time. Took defensive measures for their protection. And returned the Sinai and the Gaza strip supposedly for peace. It has never come.
6) The history of Israel since 1947 coming to light? What, we've all been in the dark until history buff shows up to tell us? Lets hear you're distorted history lesson buff guy.
7) And yes, THE ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE, the main representative body of the "Palestinians" sent to the UN by the Arab League published their argument in 1947 and it is AVAILABLE ON GOOGLE BOOKS. Also I have a copy. In that document they deny their being any people called "Palestinians" or a land called " Palestine." The Palestinians were invented by the fascist Arab states only *after* they failed to destroy Israel in a genocidal war.
8) Id have to say by your violent reaction, the threat of violence to my person (over politics), and the crowd you run with (Ron Paul), and the terrorists you defend, that you are a pretty fascist guy.
9) Did you subscribe to Ron Paul's racist / anti-semitic newsletter? Or is it all on line now?
Lets hear you challenge the facts "History Buff". Stop evading and trying to change the subject.
Nobody was comparing Empires, you changed the subject. Nobody was talking about Vietnam.
@VOICEOFREASON@History Buff@Miguel526@RhondaReichel A little cooled off from this site's stealing my commentary. Fist, History Buff, I meant to say in my last post that pre-WWII Americans & Brits were NOT anti-war, that most Americans & Brits knew for years beforehand that WWII was coming, my dad being one.
I didn't mean pre-Iraq War. Just before the Iraq War, the world-wide left could not bear to have one of it's fellow totalitarians brought down. My Iraqi students bluntly said that the Euro-weaklings, the cynical Russian & Chinese governments slyly took Saddam's blood money to help impede America's rescuing the hapless Iraqi people. Some of my students survived Saddam's state-sponsored mass-murder of villages in Northern Iraq.
I have contempt for all of my former party's supporters of Saddam, allies of Saddam & al Qeada, people like our present Criminal-in-Chief. And, of course, contempt for other Saul Alinski trusted students: Hillary, Rahm Emanual, Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi & co.
Our most important goal needs to be ripping progressive weasels out of their exalted positions from which they intend to turn the rest of us into worker ants with them being lords and ladies in their planned Animal Farm.
As nice as RP's good hopes are for the people of the world to treat one another, he lives outside of the blunt reality of the totalitarians,, the world wherein Mankind has existed under domination and slavery for most all of time before the American Revolution.
No past Emperor, King, Queen, Pharoh, Fuhrer, Tribal Chiefton, Caliphate, Communist premier, et al has ever championed The Freedom of The Common Man and Woman. Neither does the Obama-Pelosi cabal which has arisen inside my former party.
@VOICEOFREASON@Miguel526@RhondaReichel 1. You use names and slander and definitions you don't even understand. Fascism - A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
Despite being a person of reason, someone who slandered my name with such a word as calling me a fascist would get knocked out or I would laugh in his face for being a complete idiot. Funnily enough I haven't been in a fight for nearly 25 years since I was 18...Nobody has been dumb enough to try...
2. Do you really think I had no clue on Germany's holdings during the war? Give me a break and grow up...
3. Those supposed evasions were there to point out the fact that our foreign policy has constantly and consistently been short sighted and militant.
4.Argentina was brought into the topic because of Nazi sympathizers and where they ran to after the war. We have messed with the entire region for decades and when we get attacked once for it we think that it justifies all the things we have done, are doing and will do in the future. You are probably one of those who thinks 9/11 happened because they hate us for our freedom.
5.Israel has consistently treated the Palestinians very poorly. The number of Palestinians far outnumbered Jews there up until the call for Jews to come home and even for decades after. Just because the British Empire said they would back a Jewish nation there doesn't mean it was right to do so. They have killed far more Palestinians than vice-versa and anyone with half a brain would know that religiously this would be a constant problem for all involved.
6. Yeah Israel never was nor ever will be a peaceful nation. I have studied Israel ranging all the way from it's biblical times. Since 1947 it has been very aggressive towards Palestinians who have a right to see it as there home as well. it has only given back those lands after immense international pressure to help appease the Arab nations.
7. doesn't appear to be a question
8. please refer to number 1 because you don't seem to understand the definition.
9. Never heard of Ron Paul until very recently so I wouldn't have ever subscribed. I have heard of them though and have listened to all the details. He is a man of his word and I believe him. Unlike every other politician I have ever seen he doesn't speak with forked tongue. If you try and attack RP on credibility and consistency compared to your stooges then he wins by miles.
@Miguel526@VOICEOFREASON@RhondaReichel Thanks Miguel. To say that most knew years before it started is a bit of a stretch but you are right a lot of them knew. You are also right that the totalitarians have always been there and his foreign policy is that it is not for us to be there unless Congress says so. The ability of the President to get us into entanglements and manipulate governments is more the right of a King than a President and our forefathers would not have given that ability to one man. The President was meant to be more of a figurehead because we would need someone to deal with the Kings and Queens of Europe at the time. If an Amendment was passed instead of the War Powers Resolution we wouldn't be having this discussion. We live in a sick world and I believe in RPs leading by example rather than forcing nations and people to comply to our will. You seem a very nice and genuine person and that's what we need in a free society. I thank and enjoy reading your comments.
"What they didn't do was to attack people in far away continents like all the other (good) empires of Europe" -
Those are your words exactly so obviously you did not know.
I did not call you "fascism" by the way, which would be absurd. I called you a "fascist" which is an "adjective" (maybe if you still have your dictionary out you can look it up) as well as an "epithet" (also in your dictionary) meaning racist, chauvinist, intolerant, aggressive, etc..
i think given your prejudice toward Israel, and your continual threats towards me, is pretty accurate. By the way, what kind of 40+ year old man walks around thinking "nobody is dumb enough to try to fight me", let alone says that in web post. Are you mentally 16? Ironic a man with this facile mind set would tell someone to "grow up".
You still have totally avoided the point. You have avoided the facts behind your beloved "Palestinians". You have in no way shown the claims I have made to be false.
I never said the Palestinians should not have a home. I support a two state solution. Why don't you try addressing the points that I have made about the Nazi-founder of the Palestinian movement. And the Arab Higher Committee's own statements on the Palestinians.
"Just because the British Empire said they would back a Jewish nation there doesn't mean it was right to do so. "
Actually, the British, despite proclamations to the contrary, tried to strangle Israel in its cradle
"Yeah Israel never was nor ever will be a peaceful nation"
So what nation is peaceful, or was founded by peaceful men? Please name this nation. Russia? China? Turkey? All nations are founded by violent men, buffy. WHY SINGLE OUT ISRAEL FOR OPPROBRIUM ?
Please present your documentation on the population demographics of 19th century Palestine. I would love to see them.
Moreover, where do you think Palestinians work fool? They have a higher standard of living in Israel than in any Arab country. i will document any claim here publicly fool.
The reality, you dont give a damn about Palestinians, they just give you a chance to express your anti-semitism in a positive way.
You call your self a person of reason. But you hide from debate. The argument was about is it right to compare Ron Paul to the appeasement movement before WW2, particularly N.C. i have made claims that the PLO was founded by Nazi sympathizers who participated in the final solution. Anyone can look up Hajj Amin al Husseni, and the other figures mentioned. The founders of the so called Palestine movement, denied Palestine existed, or there were people called Palestinians. ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE 1947. Israel accepted its state. The Palestinians refused and chose war. They chose the goal of genocide. Almost all Arab states followed n this goal, with Iran being the latest example. Only after the Arabs failed in 87 to destroy Israel, did they then focus on the Palestinians as a public relations ploy. The PLO charter even denies claims to Palestine. Can you refute these facts? Or can you just avoid the facts mentioned on all my posts. Ill document anything. This is readily available information, as I said before. If you are such a person of reason, why don't you try reading the other side. I did.. That's what I found. Or are you afraid to lose the central piece of your anti-semitic world view?
@VOICEOFREASON@Miguel526@RhondaReichel You're failure to grasp even basic sarcasm is almost beyond belief. I understand perfectly the difference between fascism and fascist. A fascist is an advocate or adherent of fascism so it is better to put the definition of fascism down to describe what that person supposedly advocates.
You have consistently tried to twist anything I have said and are rather boring to me now.
I haven't had to fight anyone because I am a peaceful man but if anyone had said what you said then they would have crossed a line that is not easily crossed. Noone has tried because I use reason and friendship as a way of living. I on the other would never use the kind of language you used and would expect a man to defend his honour if someone did. Personal honour should be defended and you as a keyboard warrior would not use that kind of language away from your monitor so you shouldn't use it on here either.
Israel doesn't matter to me only in the sense that they can handle themselves and have said they don't need us there. If anything we exacerbate the situation or haven't you noticed? Funny how we had to protect Israel with Patriot missiles because of our meddling in Iraq. We are an annoyance in the region and no meddling by our military is going to solve a problem that has existed for thousands of years.
You are trying to paint a picture by getting bogged down in things that do not matter to me when it comes to our foreign policy. The bigger picture is our foreign policy has been disastrous. We have been a bad neighbour by often being where we are not wanted and have over the years killed millions in non-declared wars.
I love the way you try and see everyone as anti-semitic. I look at them no differently as I would Mongolians, Kenyans. Brazilians, Canadians, Iraqis or the Swiss. To me there is no difference, just the difference between the governments and their disputes. If you call me fascist or anti-semitic one more time I will not even bother answering you because it is such load of hogwash that it doesn't even deserve credibility in replying to it.
@VOICEOFREASON@History Buff@Miguel526@RhondaReichel I m Jewish, my wife is Israeli Jew and my kids are jewish. The state of Israel is not representative of the jewish people.. Just because anyone criticizes Israel doesn't mean they are anti jewish or an anti semite. The Arabs are semites also,
but you are right, all nations are violent. and Israel hasn't been commiting extreme oppression and at times genocide against Palestinians? Maybe they should read the Bible and the words of their Savior, their jewish messiah, and the USA should start living it.
@firewater@History Buff@Miguel526@RhondaReichel TO FIRE WATER- One doesn't know who one is dealing with on the internet but Ill take you at your word?
Why would it even matter if you (or I) were Jewish? Would that prove anything in itself?
You are right that if a person is critical of Israel, it does not mean they are an anti-semite. And, obviously the the Arabs are semities, that it is a pointless comment, everyone knows what the term anti-semite means, and what it refers to. The question is the nature of the criticism, and how one applies the same standards to other nations of the world. If you cant see the danger in the Ron Paul vanguard, Alex Jones, Michael Scheuer, Jeff Rense etc. then I would have to seriously doubt you are paying attention to what this movement entails. Who Ron Paul motivates and what he stands for.
Genocide against the Palestinians? Are you serious? The Palestinians are in the situation they are in now because of the Arab leadership, and the Arab world which could really care less.
This argument was about the nature of the threat of Islamic terrorist, their sponsors, and weather Ron Paul's views of that threat danger the US and its allies, similar to the way appeasers of Germany did before the 2nd world war.
Anyone can read your posts and see exactly what you said. You threatened me twice, and you said "no one is stupid enough to try it" (i.e.) fighting you. I never called EVERYONE anti-semitic, just you. Reason being, you can not factually demonstrate your problem with Israel at all. The question originally was about appeasement and Ron Paul's views about Islamic terror and its sponsors and the reasoning behind it, and if those views amount to appeasement. Which you mocked another poster for claiming, as anyone can see. It's clear you cant defend your views. I haven't twisted anything you said. I copied and pasted it, then replied. I have attempted to point out the nature of the regimes surrounding Israel, their history, ideology etc., and wonder what mental defect could make a person want to throw a democratic ally of the United States to these wolves. I think I know what...
@VOICEOFREASON@firewater@History Buff@Miguel526 What appeasers of Germany? The majority of Americans just felt it wasn't their fight....and they were right until Germany declared war on the U.S.
@History Buff@VOICEOFREASON@Miguel526 They did accomplish something....they sold a LOT OF BOMBS
More bombs were used in Vietnam than in WWII by both sides.
Now we trade with Vietnam....what was the point? Obviously to enrich the war profiteers just like we are doing in the middle east today.
@RhondaReichel@VOICEOFREASON@Miguel526 I agree completely...I think we mention American lives lost a little to easy in comparison to all the lives lost in other countries. 2-4 million lives lost in the Vietnam War alone. The reason we don't know is because of the effectiveness of the bombs (like napalm) we used. It amazes me that we aren't far more hated in the region considering all the Laos and Cambodian lives lost as well.
@RhondaReichel@VOICEOFREASON@firewater@History Buff@Miguel526 R.R., You must have gone to an American university to learn such idiocy. Do some reading. Maybe some contemporanious material of that time period might inform you such that you'll not shame yourself in public..
@RhondaReichel@History Buff@VOICEOFREASON R. R., The point you ask about was for your friend, Ho Chi Minh to mass-murder about 1,000,000 Vietnamese people, to gain raw power, only to be out-done by another one of your heroes, the French-university-educated Pol Pot, who mass-murdered 1/3 of the entire land of Cambodia (1,500,000-2,000,000 Cambodians), forever destroying Cambodia's social fabric in service to your socialist god.
@Miguel526@RhondaReichel@VOICEOFREASON We all throw around these huge numbers on death tolls. It is hard to do, but we have to think about every single person as having a mind, a soul, a family and a community to help keep in context of what those numbers mean. I am sick to death of seeing scores of people killed at a time and not thinking that every one of them should have been spared from all this senseless hatred and killing that we allow governments and people in power to perpetrate upon the masses.
@History Buff@RhondaReichel@VOICEOFREASON History Buff, I really appreciate your upright, fine sentiments about our fellow human beings! I have come to realize that blanket anti-war people have caused much more mass-murder than all of the well-armed democracies on earth combined. Criminal totalitarian regimes, communist or Islamic, will mass-murder no matter what people like R. R. do, say, or think.
People like Jimmy Carter are responsible for almost all of the post-Iranian Ayatollahs' murder of so many hapless middle Eastern people, Arab or Persian, and will be responsible to the mass-death in Iran's oncoming WWIII.
@Miguel526@RhondaReichel@VOICEOFREASON Th one time that I would agree with you about anti-war and mass murder was the opportunity the French had to march into the Rurh and put a huge damper on Germany's ability to industrialize their military before WWII started. It would have effectively ended the war before it began. If you want to give me some other examples then that would be interesting to look over. I am not sure how often I can agree that the inaction of one person can be the reason why so many people were killed by another though. We have had our opportunity to make the world a better and safer place after WWII and I can only say we have had mixed results at best. I am very proud of USA's Marshall plan and our helping to rebuild Europe after the war. If we had been a better example of freedom instead of serving mixed interests on our military campaigns we would likely be living in a better world today. Who knows, because it could be too late. While I see your point I don't think I can agree with all of your statement.
@RhondaReichel@firewater@History Buff@Miguel526 Yeah, the majority of Americans like the German American Bund? O John Rogge, Assistant Attorney General to President Truman, was charged with investigating Nazi subversion and propaganda in this country prior to as well as during WW2. His findings were suppressed by Tom Clark 3 US Attorney General (who's son is the odious nazi loving terrorist loving Ramsey Clark), so he published a book about it in hope of future Americans believing what you do now Rhonda,HistoryBuff,Robert Fallon. That book: The official German report: Nazi penetration, 1924 to 1942, Pan-Arabism, 1939 to today. Notice how the second part is titled Pan-Arabism? Rhonda your heart is in the right place, but your mind is rattled with lies.
@RhondaReichel You can google almost any statement RhondaReichel. Google is not a truth machine. I can google ufo's and bigfoot, it doesn't make it true.
Even if, as many defenders of Iran claim, the exact translation was not "wipe off the map", do you really think the translation you claim to be true "erased from the pages of history" Is really any different?
If gangsters threatened to destroy your house and family would it matter if they told you they would "wipe you from the map" or "erase you from the pages of history"?
As for Iran not attacking anyone, maybe not directly, but I doubt anyone in their right mind, would deny that Iran supports proxy groups, like Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah that target civilians as well as countries world wide.
Even if the Iranian leader (who sent thousands of children to set off mine fields in the Iran/Iraq war by making them wear keys around their neck and promising they were the keys to the kingdom of heaven) said nothing, it remains a absolute fact that the goal of all Islamist militants is to destroy Israel completely.
Also, take the case of Iraq, where Iran constantly has promoted violence against the Iraqi government and US forces. As well as recent direct attacks on Iraqi Kurdistan, as documented by human rights watch http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/12/20/iranturkey-recent-attacks-civilians-iraqi-kurdistan
Iran also played a major role in supporting the "Northern Alliance" in Afghanistan, and was on the verge of invading Afghanistan around 1998. Moreover, Iran played a major role in promoting violence in the Yugoslav civil wars in the 90's, backing Alija Izetbegovic Bosnian Islamic government.
The quote of one nuclear rights "expert" is hardly sufficient evidence on how fast Iran would posses nuclear weapons.
Also, the idea of an attack on nuclear plants in Iran precipitating WW3 is a total guess. (Not that I support attacking Iran, i'm just saying). Given a regime with the track record listed above, you can, I believe also "guess" we could have WW3 by doing nothing.
Muslim sects have been fighting each other for over 1000 years so all those references you made are pointless. In fact if we completely withdraw from the middle east in time they would resume their former infighting and leave us alone. Only one way to test that theory isn't there? ELECT RON PAUL
Why are you being so dense about the fact that THEY DON'T WANT US OVER THERE IN THEIR LANDS?
Nope not a total guess about attacking Iran....Russia, China, and their other allies have already warned us that it would be a mistake. In fact the former Israeli commander said it was a horrible strategy. Many people have come out with statements against it who are in the postition to know the consequences.
Where do you propose to get the money to fight this war? China certainly isn't going to lend it to us. I never get an answer for that question.
@RhondaReichel You assume we want to attack Iran. Why would we? We attacked Iran's two enemies on both sides of its borders, Iraq and Afghanistan (Taliban). We replaced these regimes with pro-Iranian regimes. Do we want them to have nukes? No. But does that mean we will attack them? And Russia and China may threat, but do they really want to go all out. You are right we have a militaristic, aggressive strategy in the region. But is that strategy really helping Israel? I would argue Israel is more insecure now, the US having done what it has. I was against the Iraq war, I don't believe the US line in Afghanistan about Bin Laden at all.
You also assume that we can leave the region now without someone else stepping in, or that the chaos that would follow wouldn't rock the already shaken economies of the world to the core. Rhonda I don't agree with our policy. I also don't agree with what you think our policy is. Also we wouldn't need much money if an all out nuclear war between Russia, the US, and China happened. We would all be dead.
"Even if, as many defenders of Iran claim, the exact translation was not "wipe off the map", do you really think the translation you claim to be true "erased from the pages of history" Is really any different?"
Yes...very different....first one is a threat....2nd statement is a self fulfilling prophesy.
I guess you'd have to find someone fluent in that language to translate it for you correctly in order for you to believe the truth.
Calling someone an anti semite is pathetic defense.....a lot of Israelis don't agree with their own government's policies. Look up Jewish Voice for Peace if you don't want to take my word for it.
@RhondaReichel "I guess you'd have to find someone fluent in that language to translate it for you correctly in order for you to believe the truth". - Is that not obvious for any translation?
And Rhonda, I don't need that quote at all to understand the nature of the Iranian regime, its goals in the region, and the threat it represents to the world. And above all the way it has repressed and terrorized its own people. The actions of the Iranian regime against its people and its support for terrorism are clear.
The quote you speak of does not even matter.
'Wiped off the Map' – The Rumor of the Century - by Arash ...
The mistranslated "wiped off the map" quote attributed to Iran's president has ... "They speak proudly and openly of their desire to 'wipe Israel off the map.' ...
I'll check it out, my friend. Peace.
@RobertFallin You're the man
I'm glad you are listening. My comment followed my earlier comment (worked hard upon) being taken down, most unusual. I really agree with your 330 million firearms in civilian hands. If RP would talk about Eric Holder's purposefully arming Mexican Drug Cartels in Obama's attempt to discredit US firearm sales resulting in some of our Border Control Afgents being murdered and over 200 innocent Mexicans being murdered by Obama's illegally-sold guns, I would be happier.
You are correct that this comment has indeed been posted, much better than before! As a former California democrat, I clearly know that No Republican has any idea of the depth of hatred my former party's operatives have, nor is RP or Romney or anyone really prepared for billion-dollar-powered attacks, the cynical, viciousness of Obama's hate machine, working as it is in tandem with MSM.
I would be most happy if RP and his people would bluntly warn all MSM advertisers NOT to advertise so much in MSM, to move some their ads out of big-city liberal papers/ABC-NBC-PBS moving their ads toward radio, cable TV, Online, Youtube, and conservative sites such as CBN, I think it's called, and any other non-MSM-enriching entities. Once MSM can be stalled, since it's ad revenue are it's only life-line in this paper-dying time in America, then Obama's progressive monsters won't have their lying MSM accomplices doing their best to control and form the 'national dialogue' to fit only Obama's speech-writers' imperatives.
It's a big cabal, ranging from MSM to elite money, to academia, to government unions, all robbing us together through my former party's operatives.
I've gotten a couple big corporations to thank me for helping them see the light in this area, that they were feeding the pit bull that will eventually kill it's feeder by their buying ads in MSM, (which supports so much over-taxation/over-regulation of our job-creators). They were very, very nice and thankful for my contacting them. Many of them too, are Good Americans.
I think we both believe that basic American need for freedom and personal responsibility through honest work. saving and helping our children and those of our neighbors in our communities. I think we both believe that secret plundering of our National Treasury in DC must come to an end, which involves big banks, Goldman-Sachs, progressive academia's mass-waste, government unions, Bernie Madoff types, EPA-destruction of our jobs using the 'environment', et al.
And, I do commend RP for his pulling some good number of democrat voters away from Obama's MSM-progressive machine which so hates The Common Man and Woman. Thank you again, and I had better stop here.
Great post, Miguel526. I have seen documentation of the massacre of the "Bonus Army," WWI American Vets, by the US Army in 1932 on Ron Paul's website and I know Ron Paul is aware of the deliberate murder of members of MOVE in the 1980 and Brach Davidians at Waco, Texas in 1993, the unjust imprisonment and torture of Congressman George Hansen by US Marshals in the 1980s and the destruction of evidence after 911. Ron Paul has no illusions of the stakes here and I honestly wonder how he sleeps knowing he is repeatedly in the crosshairs of the bankers and the US government. It hasn't kept me up at night, but I fully expect to eventually be visited by a SWAT team that will attempt to incarcerate me. They better bring "body bags" and I'll stop with that. You take care of yourself. @Miguel526
@RobertFallin We thank you for your sincere efforts on all of our behalves, even my insane ex-wife I'd protect from Obama's progressive monsters.
Remember Vaclav Havel, the leader of Czechoslovakia's Velvet Revolution against the Soviets' Evil Empire who died today, aged 75..
"Solidarity, my friend." @Miguel526
@RobertFallin Absolutely, my new friend!
Forgot this earlier, my friend. I'm sure you will be pleased.
Ron Paul: Eric Holder should be 'fired,' criminally charged for Fast and Furious
@RobertFallin@Miguel526 wish he would be fired... but they are protecting their own. this congress must be bought as they really never get a victory and are handing over our freedoms and rights to the criminally insane
Even some of the traitors who voted for the Defense Authorization Act are demanding Holder resign. I figure Holder will be sacrificed to appease the public and provide cover for Congress and the President. However, I don't think he will be criminally prosecuted. Big mistake, as the latest polls out of Iowa and New Hampshire show Ron Paul in first place in Iowa and at over 20% in New Hampshire. Obviously, the public understand a lot more than the elites believe. Also, those two MTV ads comparing government attacks on US citizens with NAZI Germany and the Holocaust will reach millions. Government, indeed has awakened a "sleeping giant." Take heart, my friend. Either justice or revenge is coming; and, while revenge is a poor substitute for justice, it is vastly superior to injustice and will have to do. @firewater @Miguel526
@RobertFallin@firewater@Miguel526 I agree that revenge is a poor substitute for justice and in Holder's case we don't want him sacrificed to protect Obama's progressive anti-gunners who are the architects of the soon-to-be increased numbers of murdered Mexican and more US murder victims resulting from their cynical crime of trying to create these murders and to use MSM to blame Second Amendment people for this carnage.
The imperative is to vote out the criminal known as Obama at all costs. What we need is a union of RP's concepts with those of Romney, etc in order to produce a unified front against these academic monsters who've spent many decades to position themselves to destroy our land from within and without.
Please look at Andrew Breitbart's "Righteous Indignation" wherein he describes his moving from Hollywood liberal to American conservative, then tells the amazing story of "The Frankfurt School" of German intellectuals who arrived in southern CA in about 1932 and whose message to undermine America has traveled steadfastly through Academia since then, up through Saul Aklinski in Chicago and into Hillary, Obama and Rahm Emanuel and company today.
I'm listening, Miguel526. It seems to me the existence of your post proves that the site is not "afraid of open discussion." If Obama's people are "laughing at the prospects of utterly destroying" Ron Paul, they are making the biggest mistake since Jimmy Carter's people laughed at the prospects of utterly destroying Ron Paul. I haven't seen this much passion for a candidate since Ronald Reagan and even Reagan didn't poll as well with Democrats and independents as does Ron Paul. Our murdering "beloved" President is already more hated than Jimmy Carter. If he starts murdering, torturing or unlawfully imprisoning significant numbers of Americans, he will quickly find out the 330 MILLION firearms in civilian hands are not just for "hunting."
I notice this site is afraid to post contrary ideas, just like the cowards of my former party, the democrats. Why are the operatives of this site so afraid? I partly like RP, but he's got too many real-life drawbacks to get elected, Obama's people laughing at the prospect of utterly destroying him.
RP's a nice guy, looking great as a populist, but his people must learn to have guts, not the 'gutsy' hate-filled, but actually most cowardly gutter Chicago-style politics of Obama's operatives, but at least be strong enough to listen to opposing views. Being democrat lite is not strong. Being Huffington Post lite is more vile than it is civilized. Man up you guys. There's a lot of people who would listen if this site wasn't so afraid, so afraid of other people's views, so violating the spirit of our Founding Father's First Amendment; to protect unpopular speech.
Ron Paul would have left the Freedom Fighter, Vaclav Havel (who died just today), the Czech Freedom Fighter who led the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia, to die under the Soviets' Evil Empire. Ron Paul would have left all the peoples of Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Belarus, Ukraine, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Dagistan, Georgia, and a hundred other smaller countries to wither and die under the Soviets' mass-murderous regime of socialist hatred and destruction.
Ron Paul is weak & afraid on top of being a heartless guy who would stand around letting a criminal beat his neighbor's wife to death in their own front yard, as Ron Paul watched from his front yard, looking weakly & meekly on.
Inside our land, Ron Paul is quite right. I love his anti-rich-guy, ill-fitting suit coats, his basic talk of common sense! But he's blind to the purposeful evil out there in this world, evil beyond the ken of his basically nice American guy persona who's never had to pick up the blown up body parts of children & mothers, or had to dig up mass-murdered villages of men, women and children, in Saddam's or Stalin's, or Mao's or Pol Pot's or Ho Chi Minh's mass-graves holding so many millions of murdered human beings. So many murdered millions, murdered in the ugly reality of Obama's progressive friends' socialist Utopian Dreamlands.
FREEDOM to kill who we want to. FREEDOM to manipulate other governments. FREEDOM to torture. FREEDOM to build more munitions to cause more death and destruction. Yeah you're right they hate us for our FREEDOMS alright, but then again so would I. Go Ron Paul...
Especially Cicero and visionary as Jefferson.
I just went through and watched 20 old video clips of RP. I like this guy. I mean he took a lot of crap and attacks and never dies
Are Fox News and the GOP Establishment Willing to Start WWIII Just to Discredit Ron Paul?
Mr Paul's delivery was poor in the Iowa debate. It seemed that he was fumbling over his words and using sentence/thought fragments. I am a Ron Paul supporter who attributes his mannerisms during this debate to the craftiness of the media and their manipulation. I expect Ron anticipated that the media would give hime no time at first in initial coverage and interviews(to speak), and then provided themselves ample time to load their information cannons and fire upon him while his nerves were racked and his patience was thin.It is a shame that the media uses these tactics and a shame that Ron Paul's campaign team as well as himself did not prepare or condition themselves for such an occurrence. I hope young Americans are intelligent to vote for Ron Paul so a healthy,intellectual, controversial honest debate can occur between President Obama and Rep.Paul. Look at Perry's Pandering, Bachmann's bit smarter Palinisms, Gingrich's Greed, Santorum's sanity, Romney's Rhetoric, and then look at Ron's Reasoning, and not reasoning that he always has to ask advice on...but reasoning that he shows because clearly he has his own brain.
True, but his Facebook fans numbers are way up after the debate. I guess that means people do care about substance over show.
@Egalite yes. Ron Paul does much better when relaxed and in friendly atmoshphere . I have written to him several times about training in the art of delivery and not trying to say too much.. shorter, meat filled answers with conviction . he sometimes does this and it is powerful as it is truth... and he could become a more powerful speaker if he captures that more.. if someone is speaking truth and suffering for it you know they are true and not just a phony politician
Mr Paul's delivery was poor in the Iowa debate. It seemed that he was fumbling ver his words and was using sentence/thought fragments. I am a Ron Paul supporter who attributes this to the craftiness I expect he anticipated from the media who would give hime no time at first (to speak), and then provided ample time to load their info cannons and fire upon him while his nerves were racked.It is a shame that the media uses these tactics and a shame that Ron Paul's campaign team as well as himself did not prepare or condition themselves for just such an occurrence.
There are more independents than Republicans and Democrats.
Ron will get ALL of the Republicans and ALL of the indies and LOTS of Dems too.
Ron Paul will win THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION, and the presidency in a cakewalk.
Ron Paul is the person who's able and willing to help america, also don't forget he is a vet and a congressman with integrity. A man of honor for his family and country. This man would make america strong again just give him your support and vote. Lets take care of america first, vote for Ron Paul.
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