Koch brothers will benefit as opposed to everyone else from a dismantling of government because then they can stay rich as opposed to everyone else, and move abroad to new pastures after raping the US.
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Thanks for the discussion, and these are my ideas and ‘research’. Do not forget that Socialist method of raising taxes on the rich and breaking apart monopolies has worked BEFORE, just after the Great depression when income inequality and corporate lobbying were at their worst. However, Corporate lobbying is very strong and the Koch brothers fund lots of Libertarian disinformation in order to make people believe the only solution is dismantling government. So the people are very divided now.
But the rich monopolies will still exist in such a system. This seems like the big problem to me. They will be no regulations to prevent them buying private armies, to prevent them polluting, to prevent them using wage slavery against their workers. If they band together, maybe even government forces cannot defeat them. But then again, if worker co-operatives spread, maybe workers will be more likely to join them. Will worker co-operatives need armies as well? There is much to discuss.
Now lets say that the government is dismantled apart from taxes towards the judiciary and the military, and collective funding is the only way for income redistribution (amongst the poor). How can you make sure the extremely rich monopolies cannot bribe the judiciary and the military? How can you make sure that the rich monopolies don’t own the media and push their own propaganda? By the people funding their OWN INDEPENDENT MEDIA, that’s how. By Worker Co-operatives fighting the monopolies.
So government isn’t really working properly at the moment, yes. However, if you reduce social spending and taxes on the rich (as what happened after Reagan), you can get rid of all the good things I mentioned and make monopolies bigger, richer and more in control of government. I bet you cannot answer if I ask you how much government we should have, I’m not really sure either. The only way to properly dismantle government programs is if everyone joins Worker Co-ops which entail these benefits.
At the moment, income inequality is widening, governments are becoming less representative and enormously influenced by corporations, the Law and anti-monopoly laws are not applying to Goldman Sachs, etc., the military/police are used by Corp’s through government, Healthcare and prisons are privatised, Koch brothers are destroying pollution regulations, public education and workers Unions. Only the firefighter service is OK – but recent cuts in this allowed a raging fire to spread in a US state.
The idea behind paying tax to a Centralised government is to achieve the following conditions: 1. Create an entity through which public opinion can be channeled 2. More income equality 3. One judiciary for EVERYONE (the law applies to ALL) 4. A police/military to protect everyone 5. Decent standardised education for ALL 6. Regulations on pollution 7. Regulations to prevent workers being paid a pittance to survive 8. Prevent monopolies 9. Decent Healthcare for ALL 10. Firefighters for ALL
By the way: IT’S MEDIA which has to help people to gain a rational, responsible and encouragable mind. Without progressive media (better padagogical education) whether big government or unleashed industry will be able to make worse and worse crimes.
Chomsky advocates Libertarian Socialism – have you heard of the Kibbutz and the Spanish worker movements? These were egalitarian societies/worker co-operatives where inequality was reduced and people had a say on the direction of the enterprise. However power hungry governments were afraid of these co-operatives and tried to dismantle them. A world without government is a lawless place but Limited government WITHOUT worker co-operatives is a place where rich monopolies force workers to starve.
So we need either big government as a robin hood for the people.
Or we need small government to awaken a robin hood in the people’s minds.
These seem to be two completely differnt ways, but: Both ways would be able to get rid of inequality. But one of it, is by use of force and the other is by waking responsibility and courage of the people.
So now I made clear, why at least in idea the unforced one is sexier. On top of that, we don’t even have a robin hood state. we have the sheriff
People have the right to obt out, if they are against it? DUHHHHHH!!!!!
dont forgett judge napolitano… oh wait, they got rid of his show suddenly. what a coincident… mhhh…
I think Ron Paul is not propagating the sudden dismantling. as for healthcare, he doesn’t want to get rid of it. he wants people to obt out. I think this is out of discussion. Why should anyone not have the right to choose? that’s the given competition for industry, to actually listen to their needs (or try to manipulate them;)) but i dont see sudden dismantling. Do you mean, because he wants to get rid of the 5 departments? tell me, if you think so… i’d like to talk about that.
and I agree with you, that the masses today should be more sceptical and never forgett demanding to govern themselves as a result of their responsibility. I agree, that we make too less efforts to take responsibility, making it easier for industry and elite to claim power in a small government.
these risks, however, should be a motivation, to use paul’s idealistic (even if utopian) policies, to actually take responsibility. I think this is just the best given way (today) since big gov fails.
You see, the worst crimes are that which completely take someone out of their comfort zone in terms of pain tolerance, etc. Stability is a virtue. As a system of wealth redistribution, our government works best when income taxes on the rich are high and income inequality is lowest (though communism/complete central planning produces enormous problems and puts too much power into government hands). A replacement system would need to be representative of the people and reduce inequality.
If government followed what our founding fathers said we wouldn’t be in such a mess. Don’t meddle in affairs of other countries, caused 911 now in stupid, worthless wars. Don’t let private bank institutions control currency, inflation, to much gov powers, making common people poor. Trying expand government less freedoms for common people, controlling education, housing market, health care. Causing a monopoly in high prices in all 3 areas. It’s possible to fix, but it will take a long time.
I dont get how you americans have so much hate on socialism. We in switzerland have like one of the biggest healthcare systems in the world. Of course its not cheap but its worth it that EVERYBODY can have the optimal medicine…
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and if paul is just a liar, okay, than we are doomed. but that’s not what it seems. he is NOT the bribable wall street politician. What I know, is that Obama stands for war and more crisis, since he is not interested in solving the monetary problems, which all informed people allready understood. we can trust him at least on that one, since he told us (even as a doctor, not an economist) HOW and WHEN and WHY the crisis will start. Krugman on the other hand stumbled on his own incompetence. sorry
same games in the US. passing laws for lobby and industry. even if government was necessary or ment to be a protector. IT ISN’T ANYMORE. that is for sure. we have to govern ourselfs. There will always be the government to uphold law. to have police etc. but there shouldn’t be papa-kaynes “wiping your butt” as some people always say. and that is TRUE. because first of all noone takes responsibility, ppl get dumb and uninformed and selfish. People automatically would gather together with paulitic.
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