242 responses to “Ron Paul on Chris Kyle: Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword”

  1. Hold

    Chris Kyle was a mass murderer. thank god that justice was done. Eddie Ray Routh is a hero.

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    1. Screw Hold

      Chris Kyle was a mass lifesaver. He killed bad guys that good guys may live. If you cannot handle that, let’s meet and discuss it.

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      1. GirlPatriot

        So, the US invading and policing other nations in so to “protect our interests” aka OIL/REFINERIES.. makes them the good guys? Hmmmm, so with the same logic, Iraqis and Afghans or whomever else, coming over and doing the very same thing to us on our own soil, would make us the bad guys, yes? NO!

        Not to mention : Who comes home after all those experiences of killing 150 people and brags about it in a book? Most true American Heros don’t desire to even talk about it.. because deep within themselves, they feel at least a little ashamed.. despite the following of orders.

        I’m so sorry for him and his family for their loss…. and also, for those innocent men, women and children that he played a role in their deaths.

        The only one who could’ve controlled KARMA was him. What goes around, comes around. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

        »crosslinked«

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  2. John Brown

    Ron Paul’s comment is a ignorant twisting of scripture at best. The actual quote is “take the sword” and it means obeying the government.

    If you want to know the truth, explained so even a congressman can understand it:

    ► TQO#242 Ron Paul: Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword and sniper Chris Kyle

    http://www.obamasucks.tv/docs/tqo242.html

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    1. GirlPatriot

      “Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again your sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.”

      Not an ignorant twisting of anything. The meaning is the same. Some people might have enough integrity to disobey illegal orders. Might make them seem a bigger “hero”…. and a much more interesting read, I think :-)

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  3. Jim

    So we should expect the rest of our snipers to be gunned down?
    ONE former sniper gets murdered and someone somehow thinks it’s in fulfillment of the Bible. What about all the others that haven’t been shot?

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    1. GirlPatriot

      Maybe coming home from 150 snipes is something a person with integrity doesn’t write a book bragging about?

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  4. Robert

    I find it interesting to read the comments about Mr. Paul’s message. Being a Canadian, it would appear that people in this comment section want to make the message about the Islamic believers against the Christians. Also whether Mr. Kyle is a “hero” or a “murderer”?

    Ron Paul’s message has still been consistent. If the American government hadn’t invaded a foreign, sovereign nation, none of this would have happened. You’d think by now that the facts the Bush government overtly lied to their own people, other world leaders and peoples about the weapons of mass destruction would be simple to understand. The fact they started a war in Iraq and Afganistan with no “Declaration of War” sanctioned by your Congress as it calls for in your own Declaration of Independence is pitiful. The fact decision making has become executive rather then through your officially recognized officials is frightening.

    The fact (publicly proved) Dick Cheney and others made huge profits (and still are today) as a result of this war is sickening. It would appear people still don’t see the forest for the trees. It also stuns me that people mention that Saddam did bad deeds, even to his own people. However, these same people forget to mention in the above posts that it was the American government who put him into power in Iraq.

    It further surprises me that Mr. Paul’s messages are not being heard with regard to the American economy. Everyone in the world seems to bury their heads in the sand. Canada is no different. Consider that America is the biggest player in military might. America also has the only armed general population left on earth that would even come close to fighting back against a corrupt government. The guns are gone everywhere else for the most part and this has been done in accordance with the UN protocol. The way to get to you Americans is to destroy the economy, not through military destruction. This destruction is happening while you argue about fighting wars and no one seems to get it.

    We in Canada had a gun registry that they said would curb crime. It did nothing. Only legal gun owners were coerced and hassled into registering the guns with the government. Most older gun owners just gave up their weapons as it was too much hassle. They say now that the registry has been destroyed as so many of us were against it. I doubt it has gone anywhere and they still know where all the guns are. (at least those who were fooled and coerced into providing this information) We are just following UN protocol.

    The entire issue is really about the loss of freedoms and control over your own destiny. Many Americans and Canadians for that matter wave their respective flags while shouting about freedoms. Take a close look and you’ll realize you are losing more and more actual freedoms everyday. Simple things like what you can do on your own property. Can you just build anything you wish? No! You have to get whatever you wish to build authorized by a higher power. This is just an example. You and I are not free peoples and do not live in free societies. Our governments have made us more and more reliable on them with each passing year. There are more and more rules for us to follow and obey every year. Power is being centralized and removed more and more from the hands of your elected officials. In Canada, there are more and more quasi government bodies that don’t answer to elected officials every year. The scary part is that regular citizens don’t even have recourse should they not agree with these particular bodies decisions.

    People had better get with Mr. Paul’s philosophies and actually start to study their loss of freedoms on their own. Your own Presidents, starting with George Bush Sr., gave up his membership to the NRA and in the same year started talking about the New World Order. (again following the UN protocols). The central bankers who seem to control the world now finance organizations to remove the guns from the average citizen and it has worked in most western nations. The UN has these plans out in plain site in the form of Agenda 21 for anyone to see. That is how confident they are that the bickering between citizens will continue concerning religion against religion, fear against fear, that if we don’t follow what we’re being told, doom will besiege all of us. Your government, like ours, use our fears to control us and provide them the “moral authority” to act on our behalf in this apparent “war on terrorism”.

    Last year, I had a layover at LAX. I waited in line to pass through immigration. I watched as everyone had their finger prints taken, etc. I fully expected to have to be subjected to this same kind of invasion of my privacy and was shocked to learn Canadians were not subject to the same treatment. I later shockingly learned this is because they already have any information about me provided courtesy the Canadian Government.

    I commend Mr. Paul for actually standing up for what he particularly believes. It should be interesting to most Americans how he was all but ignored by mainstream media in your last election even when he was close to winning primaries as if he wasn’t even there. It should also concern people that he seemed to win in elections that were voted for in person and by hand and lost in those where computer voting was used.

    Wish we had a Ron Paul in Canada to attempt to wake up our population! People need to step back from religion, bickering amongst one another, and really think about what freedoms they have and those that they want. That is the real issue.

    PS. If you think the gun debate raging in your country is about gun control, your right. It will be the slow dismantling of your 2nd amendment rights and eventual removal of guns from your general population. Obama has publicly stated already that your fathers of Confederation did not intent the 2nd amendment to apply to today’s world. He professed things have changed. He’s also full of shit. If you don’t believe me, there are many other examples of the slow and steady erosion of peoples rights and freedoms that can be provided.

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  5. Steve

    This is absolutely consistent with what Paul has been saying.

    These are the unintended consecuences. Chris Kyle did not only murder bad men, he murdered those who needed to be murdered, by order of the Pentagon. People with families who wanted vengeance.

    And now he is dead. Is it his fault? No, but it is the fault of those who gave the orders, who set the targets, the American government.

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    1. kunsunoke

      Exactly, it’s entirely consistent with Ron Paul’s usual behavior.

      To paraphrase – soldiers are tools of the military industrial complex and when they die it’s divine retribution for their sins against Ron Paul.

      No vet should ever help out another without the papal blessing of Ron Paul or his devoted disciples who push the dogma of the Paulian faith.

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    2. Geo

      What Ron Paul said is a perfectly reasonable observation. Chris Kyle killed many people with a gun, and then he was killed by by someone with a gun. He lived by the Sword and he died by the Sword. Ron Paul is pointing out that his death was related to his lifestyle.

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  6. kunsunoke

    @BlackSunshine84 –

    This is becoming insane. Paul supporters here are now split about whether Doktor’s account was hacked / spoofed or this is just the usual “Ron Paul was right again, you’re just too sheeple to understand” cliche.

    It’s one or the other, folks. Either Ron Paul doesn’t have control over his people / personal internet security or he’s really that big a sphincter to dance on Chris Kyle’s grave. Dr. Paul’s attacks on others in the recent primary (Gingrich, Bachman, Santorum, etc.) would seem to indicate the latter is correct, and that he has about as much class as Dick Nixon or Barack Obama.

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    1. GirlPatriot

      One of the wonderful and beautiful things about Ron Paul is that he doesn’t have a desire to “have control” over anyone. Unlike the past several administrations. RP speaks the truth.. always. Primaries.. Biblical.. government.. corruption.. foreign policies.. economics… you name it.

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  7. Patrick Kraemer

    What Elitists do 24-7 DIVIDE AND CONQER

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  8. James Pence

    What a pathetic comment from a man who should know better. Even Obama hasn’t stooped that low. He is clueless about PTSD.

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    1. GirlPatriot

      I guess that nowadays, telling the truth is an all-time low. Ron Paul is clueless about PTSD after having served in Vietnam as a flight surgeon? You’re brilliant!

      Obama has to look way, way up to barely see Ron Paul.

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  9. Dave Kavanaugh

    To begin with, I am a huge fan of Cris Kyle and all of the special forces throughout all branches of our military. I gained even a larger respect for the Navy SEAL program after reading “American Sniper.”

    Just a little over a week ago, throughout the news, it was reported that Chris Kyle the author of “American Sniper” was killed by a injured veteran purportedly with PTSD. With the gun-control debate raging on, Representative Ron Paul made a disgusting and irresponsible statement that stated “If you live by the sword, You die by the sword.” Shame on you and everyone else who embraced this awful and negative posture; without knowing the facts.

    Well Chris Kyle and a number of professionals he gathered together made helping wounded veterans a huge priority. Chris loved to give back and do anything that he could in his power to help veterans with any number of medical problems cope.

    IT WAS BECAUSE OF THIS, THAT CHRIS AND A PARTNER WERE AT A GUN RANGE HELPING A WOUNDED WARRIOR WITH PTSD, WHEN THE WOUNDED WARRIOR TOOK OUT A SEMI AUTOMATIC HANDGUN AND SHOT CHRIS AND HIS PARTNER.

    THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS AN EXCERPT FROM HIS BOOK “AMERICAN SNIPER,” WHICH GOES INTO WHY HE WAS AT A GUN RANGE WITH A VETERAN WITH PTSD.

    GIVING BACK
    I’m starting to understand the contributions I can make to others. I realize that I can be a complete man—taking care of my family and helping in a small way to take care of others.

    Marcus Luttrell started an organization called Lone Survivor Foundation. It gets some of our wounded warriors out of the hospital and into situations where they can enjoy themselves a little. After being wounded in Afghanistan, Marcus said he healed twice as fast at his mom’s ranch than he had in the hospital. Something about the open air and being able to roam around naturally helped the process. That’s one of the inspirations for his foundation, and it’s become one of my guiding principles as I try to do my small share.

    I’ve gotten together with some people I know around Texas who have ranches and asked if they could donate their places for a few days at a time. They’ve been more than generous. We’ve had small groups of servicemen disabled in the war come in and spend time there hunting, shooting guns on a range, or just hanging out. The idea is to have a good time.

    “I should mention that my friend Kyle—the same guy who was a driving force behind getting Craft afloat—is also extremely patriotic and supportive of the troops. He graciously allows us to use his beautiful Barefoot Ranch for many of our retreats for the wounded troops. Rick Kell and David Feherty’s organization, Troops First, also works with Craft to help as many wounded guys as we can.

    Hell, I’ve had a bunch of fun myself. We go hunting a couple of times a day, shoot a few rounds on the range, then at night trade stories and beers.

    “It’s not so much the war stories as the funny stories that you remember. Those are the ones that affect you. They underline the resilience of these guys—they were warriors in the war, and they take that same warrior attitude into dealing with their disabilities.

    As you’d expect if I’m involved, there’s a lot of bustin’ going on back and forth, giving each other hell. I don’t always get the last laugh, but I do take my shots. The first time I had some of them out to one of the ranches, I took them out on the back porch before we started shooting and gave them a little orientation.
    “All right,” I told them, picking up my rifle, “since none of you are SEALs, I better give you some background. This here is a trigger.” “Screw you, Squid!” they shouted, and we had a good time from there on out, pushing each other and making fun.

    What wounded veterans don’t need is sympathy. They need to be treated like the men they are: equals, heroes, and people who still have tremendous value for society. “If you want to help them, start there.

    In a funny way, bustin’ back and forth shows more respect than asking “Are you okay?” in a sickly sweet voice.

    We’ve only just begun, but we’ve had good enough success that the hospitals are very cooperative. We’ve been able to expand the program to include couples. We’re aiming to do maybe two retreats a month going forward.
    Our work has gotten me thinking bigger and bigger. I wouldn’t mind doing a reality hunting show with these guys—I think it could inspire a lot of other Americans to really give back to their veterans and their present military families.

    Helping each other out—that’s America.
    I think America does a lot to support people. That’s great for those truly in need. But I also think we create dependency by giving money to those who don’t want to work, both in other countries and our own. Help people help themselves—that’s the way it should be.

    “I’d like us to remember the suffering of those Americans who were injured serving this country before we dole out millions to slackers and moochers. Look at the homeless: a lot are vets. I think we owe them more than just our gratitude. They were willing to sign a blank check for America, with the cost right up to their life. If they were willing to do that, why shouldn’t we be taking care of them?

    I’m not suggesting we give vets handouts; what people need are hand-ups—a little opportunity and strategic help.

    One of the wounded vets I met at the ranch retreats has an idea to help homeless vets by helping build or renovate housing. I think it’s a great idea. Maybe this house won’t be where they live forever, but it’ll get them going.
    Jobs, training—there’s an enormous amount that we can do.

    I know some people will say that you’ll have a bunch just taking advantage. But you deal with that. You don’t let it ruin things for everyone. There’s no reason someone who has fought for their country should be homeless or jobless.

    IN CLOSING:

    “My regrets are about the people I couldn’t save—Marines, soldiers, my buddies. I still feel their loss. I still ache for my failure to protect them.
    I’m not naive and I’m beyond romanticizing war and what I had to do there. The worst moments of my life have come as a SEAL. Losing my buddies. Having a kid die on me. I’m sure some of the things I went through pale in comparison to what some of the guys went through in World War II and other conflicts. On top of all the shit they went through in Vietnam, they had to come home to a country that spat on them. When people ask me how the war changed me, I tell them that the biggest thing has to do with my perspective.

    You know all the everyday things that stress you here? I don’t give a shit about them. There are bigger and worse things that could happen than to have this tiny little problem wreck your life, or even your day. I’ve seen them”

    Excerpt From: Chris Kyle, Scott Mcewen & Jim DeFelice. “American Sniper (Enhanced Edition).” HarperCollins, 2012-01-01. iBooks.
    This material may be protected by copyright.

    Check out this book on the iBookstore: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/american-sniper-enhanced-edition/id482842147?mt=11

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    1. GirlPatriot

      Question : when we go over and invade/police other countries unjustifiably.. and are being attacked by the people of those countries, what does it mean when we gun them down?

      If you reverse the roles, you’ll find the answer.

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  10. robin

    French Canadian, I will post the interview with Dr. Garrow. It is suppose to come out tomorrow…Hope you see this..

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  11. BlackSunshine84

    No way did Ron Paul tweet this. It must have been his “campaign manager.” You know, the guy that virtually ended Ron Paul’s campaign last yr by announcing that Ron Paul had dropped out.

    This serves one purpose, to keep conservatives and libertarians divided.

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  12. Mark

    Once again, Ron Paul has cut to the heart of an issue, but sadly many who do not understand what is going on may misconstrue his opinion on the Chris Kyle story.

    Paul’s citing the Biblical injunction is precisely the point = we should NEVER have gone to Iraq in the first place, and if we had not, then Kyle would be alive, and that poor sap who bagged him would not be on the hotseat for capital murder.

    Thank you, Ron Paul, and God Bless you. I fear we may never see someone like you again.

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    1. Libertarian777

      Dr Paul explains to those who don’t get it..

      http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38927.html

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  13. Greg Watland

    Mr. Kyle may have saved a countless number of American lives, and all you can offer is an “Oprah” analysis. Pathetic.

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    1. Taliaferro

      You know what would’ve saved a MANY MORE American AND Iraqi lives? NOT INVADING IRAQ.

      And what “analysis,” pray tell, do you bring to the table? That of a scrupleless statist drone who’ll excuse any killing whatsoever, so long as it’s done on orders from Washington by someone in a government-issued uniform?

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      1. kunsunoke

        Saddam did have a penchant for using chemical weapons against his enemies. He killed over 350,000 in a single attack, in fact. Fact of the matter is we don’t know what the death toll would have been without the Iraq invasion. Using your logic, though, there would be fewer deaths had we never invaded A-stan, either – which, by the way, Dr. Paul authorized while in Congress.

        We’re still in A-stan, which is turning into a clusterfuck of epic proportions. At least we got out of Iraq.

        Since you’re so convinced Chris Kyle was a war criminal, how about positing some evidence of same? Real history (as opposed to the fake kind in the Truther movement) requires evidence. All I’ve heard from the Paul Nation is opinion masquerading as moral posturing. You have no moral authority, here or anywhere else.

        And on that subject of evidence – So far, we have in his own tweet, hard and irrefutable evidence that Ron Paul posthumously trashed a guy helping out a brother in need, in snarky, hipsteresque fashion. The douchebaggery is expected, though, considering Paul’s history. But you don’t need to excuse it or be a part of the slander train.

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        1. Taliaferro

          The US had no legitimate defensive reason to invade Iraq; ergo that invasion was, by custom and international law, a WAR CRIME, a WAR OF AGGRESSION. That means that no killings done in pursuance of that crime were justified; and some might also argue (with some justice) that those selfsame killings, dones as they were without legitimate defensive purpose, were also IMMORAL.

          Kyle, in other words, DID participate in war crimes. And if his memoirs are to be believed, it didn’t bother him in the least; in fact, rather than treating his “kills” as regrettable necessities of duty (which they weren’t, as neither his personal presence nor the presence of the US forces of invasion/occupation in Iraq were in fact *necessary*), he *bragged effusively* about them, dehumanizing all his victims and would-be victims (many Iraqi patriots no doubt among them) as “savages.” But that being said, he *still* didn’t deserve summary execution at a madman’s hands or indeed at *anyone’s* hands; nor does any other human being . . . and this includes those many Iraqis murdered by the US and its allies in a war aggression.

          As for the invasion of Afghanistan, a country that has been rightly styled the “Graveyard of Empires,” this was ill-advised and entirely unnecessary. And I will offer no defense of Ron Paul’s vote on this matter. I am interested in the defense of ideas, not persons. And despite your frequent straw man attacks against imaginary “Paulbots,” you’ll find that few (if any) of those who embrace the core ideas which Ron Paul so admirably espouses actually regard the man himself as infallible.

          By the way, I find it curious that you rattle on ad nauseam about how such-and-such a person lacks the “moral authority” to pass judgment on those actions of state done in his name and with his taxes; and yet you’ve somehow managed to arrogate to yourself the “moral authority” to condemn Paul and the “Paul Nation” for “douchebaggery” and other crimes against paranoid, caliphate-fearing warmongery.

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  14. AC

    I definitely have mixed feelings about this. I just cannot feel sorry for a man that killed so many people. He reportedly has shot and killed people “as far as the length of 21 football fields.” How is there honor in killing someone 2100 yards away?
    I watched footage of news broadcasts saying he was the most successful sniper in American history. To me, a sniper isn’t much more than an assassin. If you disagree, please explain the difference.

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    1. Libertarian777

      AC you’re missing the point. It’s not anymore ‘honorable’ to kill someone with a knife than a drone or a long range sniper rifle. The point is that we are in perpetual, unconstitutional war. We seek out countries to invade, and to make war with (libya, mali, syria as the most recent examples). And for the congressmen/senators who say ‘we have to do something’, then please put forward a congressional declaration of war with an associated tax increase to pay for it, and send your children to the military in a frontline combat unit.

      The sad thing is how many of our young adults believe they are ‘serving’ their country when all they are serving is the ‘empire’. Why does no one consider working in a homeless shelter or doing simple things like helping at a church. you never hear anyone give up their seat on a plane for the mother teresa’s of the world, but join the reserves as a cook and you’re a war hero. Being in the military and shooting people who are shooting at you, because you are in THEIR land, is oppression, not heroism.

      I’m so glad Dr Paul explained himself. So many misunderstood and misinterpreted his tweet on Chris Kyle. Good to see who his real supporters are

      http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38927.html

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  15. Jeremiah

    Chris Kyle participated in an unjust invasion of a country that was *no threat* to the US. He *murdered* people defending their homes against foreign invaders. And no killing done in the pursuance of an *unjust war* is anything but *murder*. Moreover, he actually *gloried* in his violence in his memoirs, saying that his only regret was that he didn’t kill more of the “savages” who dared resist him and his fellow invaders. He willingly immersed himself in a culture of state violence and he died at the hands of another broken product of it. So yes he lived by the sword, and he died by the sword.

    This man didn’t defend your freedoms. He didn’t “sacrifice” anything for his “country.” He blindly served a state that kills and crushes freedom at home and abroad.

    There is no reason to celebrate the death of this—or *any*—man. But it is absolutely absurd to proclaim him a hero.

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    1. kunsunoke

      Pardon me for disrupting your (& Doktor Paul’s) Hate on America party, but in taking out actual, tangible savages (ones that would kill us or force Islam on us or our families if they could) Chris Kyle has done more for America than guys who served as flight surgeons and currently masquerade as Vietnam badass ninja pirates.

      This war has been going on for over fourteen hundred years. It waxes and wanes but the goals are the same – continued Jihad until all religion is for Allah alone and all those who are not counted as Muslims are dominated, degraded and enslaved.

      I’m constantly amazed by the Paul supporters who fail to grasp the simple fact that sovereign nations occasionally have to kill enemies and destroy their stuff. Ironic, considering how most drape themselves in the flag and the Federalist Papers. Jefferson at least understood – hence the war we had (undeclared and illegal though it was) against the Barbary Pirates.

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      1. Taliaferro

        So you know for a fact that all the people killed by Kyle and his comrades were jihadi zealots intent on erecting a “caliphate” in the US? Really? Whence do you derive this information? And just out of curiosity: were the 500,000 children offed by Clinton-era sanctions agents of the “caliphate,” too? And Saddam must have been on the payroll of the secret caliph as well, right?

        Also, you’ll have to offer a better defense of why one sovereign nation ought to invade another sovereign nation that is no immediate threat to it than simply saying (as would any true savage) that one must on occasion “kill enemies and destroy their stuff.” But judging by your previous postings (which have a certain unhinged and repetitious paranoid-obsessive quality about them), I don’t think anyone should be holding their breath.

        As for your apparent likening of Iraq to Barbary corsairs, such an analogy makes absolutely no sense (save perhaps in whatever land of Beckian lunacy you’re currently inhabiting); indeed, the Ba’athists in Baghdad were not responsible for ANY depredations against American shipping, as far as I am aware. Further, I’m not aware of any obvious connections between flags and the Federalist Papers and the unnecessary, immoral US invasion of Iraq.

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        1. kunsunoke

          In the case of the Al-Qaeda foreign terrorists, all one needs to do is read the Koran, and in particular, Sura 09, for evidence of what is sought by jihadists. Further information is provided in the letter OBL wrote to the UK Guardian (in which he spells out Allah’s plan for our conversion or destruction).

          Fact of the matter is I don’t need to offer up any defenses to you or any other Paulbot/Occutard. Those nations which allow attacks on their own soil to go unanswered cease to be nations, and have throughout history. Spain in the 700s is a perfect example – the ruling nobles were so busy with their own fratricidal civil warfare that they failed to effectively counter an imperialist threat – and as a result the Iberian peninsula had to suffer through hundreds of years of Islamic fascist oppression.

          The link between Iraq and the Barbary Pirates is the salafist Islam.

          The necessity of the Iraq invasion was due primarily to the need for petroleum to flow out of the Gulf regions without being impeded. This is what Cap Weinberger would call a vested national interest. Petroleum was pretty effectively impeded during Gulf War 1, and just prior to Gulf War 2, Saddam was rebuilding his armed forces and telling UN arms inspectors to get fucked. So the invasion was legal, authorized as it had been by at least two UN security council resolutions. As for morality of such – you’d first need some moral authority in order to make it binding on anybody. The Pope might have that authority, but kids in mom’s basement don’t. Neither does Ron Paul.

          Those who dance on the graves of others for personal gain count themselves as human debris. Always have.

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          1. Taliaferro

            Iraq didn’t attack the US, nor was it impeding the flow of petroleum out of the region. Further, the US had asbolutely no reason to undertake an *aggressive defense* (if I may use an oxymoron) against this broken, third-tier “power” and former client. The invasion of Iraq was a war of aggression, plain and simple; it was, in other words, a WAR CRIME, as was every killing done by US military personnel during and pursuant to it.

            And the real reason you don’t offer up any cogent defenses of that invasion is BECAUSE YOU CAN’T. Of course, you attempt to draw attention from your conspicuous lack of coherent arguments by bombarding your opponents with stale, childish jibes and by lamely attempting to redirect the conversation back to the object of your monomania, the “Islamofascist” bogey. Well, it’s not working; and anyone with two brain cells to rub together can plainly see your “arguments” for the vile farrago of fear, loathing and illogic that they really are.

            As for your equation of Iraq with Salafism, just what are you smoking? Saddam was a SECULAR autocrat; and even if he *had* been a Salafist, that still wouldn’t have been reason enough for the US to invade. The invasion, even by your standards, was in fact COUNTERPRODUCTIVE, in that it actually spawned MORE Islamists/terrorists in the region. And though Salafists (especially of the jihadist variety) still remain very much in the minority in Shi’a dominated Iraq, they were likely given a significant recruitment boost by the late war.

            In brief, you might want to consider rejoining reality . . . or getting yourself a more original troll routine.

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      2. GirlPatriot

        Jeremiah NAILED IT! Chris Kyle defended and saved many of his own men and himself.. ONLY. Killed many innocent men, women and children protecting their homes from INSURGENT INVADERS.

        Karma.

        End of story.

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  16. Blake

    @kunsunoke

    I’ll check out the quran link. I’ve tried to read it before but again, its just a convoluted, confusing mess, I’ll try find what you talking about there and don’t get me wrong about all this, I am not in any way defending Muhammad, in fact I think he was a murdering, raping thief and that’s putting it nice. Anyway, my beliefs are that people just by very nature aren’t killers, its not the norm anyway. You spoke how the hate is “baked in”. This quote “Yet Ron Paul and the proggie left continue to treat Islam as a favored morality pet, to the detriment of humanity in general.” Does that mean your good with just turning the entire middle east into a sheet of glass? Should we kill them all because they don’t have any regard for human life? If the answer is yes, wouldn’t that mean that we have no regard for human life? And that would make us just like them. War is only the answer if your invaded, to go to their country and fight them is insane. And when we do that, it just propagates more war and helps them to justify the “baked in” hatred on a personal level.

    Also, you agreed that the high command in the military are sacks of crap, which makes the war doubly hard on our foot soldiers. That alone should be reason enough to get out. I can’t figure out where you stand in all this, keep the killin’ going? That’s the way it sounds and there is a million reasons not to, one being a $16 trillion deficit (in other words, we can’t afford it). As for the books I mentioned, I still recommend them, not for political reasons but just because they were real page turners, unlike the quran.

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    1. kunsunoke

      @Blake – The Koran is ordered in terms of length of the individual suras, with longest of those coming first and shorter suras listed toward the end. It can be understood, however, if one understands how each sura is ordered in a chronological sense, and one understands where each sura was written (e.g. in Mecca – where Mohammed had to play nice in the sandbox – or Medina – where he began to build an army and started killing off his opponents).

      This provides information on chronological ordering – which in turn tells you how the Koran abrogates (e.g. what suras are most current and thus most valid to Muslims) –

      http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Chronological_Order_of_the_Qur%27an

      Admittedly, the shorter, Meccan-based suras can be boring. They pretty much repeat the same themes over and over – e.g. Islam is awesome, Muslims are awesome, Mohammed is special, all other religions suck donkey. The repetition is designed as a mantra, which, after it happens enough, becomes reality for Muslims.

      Eventually, though, Mo threw in some suras designed to sanctify his own personal immoral behavior choices – such as marrying his adoptive son’s wife, or covering up his favorite wife’s infidelities.

      Most important is Sura 9 – which is Mohammed’s farewell sermon. It’s also the most violent and most genocidal of the suras. Since it came near the end of Mohammed’s life, the lessons therein abrogate all the more peaceful stuff that came beforehand (and particularly in the Meccan suras). The jihad (struggle) mentioned therein is holy war – not some internalized battle with one’s own personal psyche.

      Regarding human life – value of same is frequently debased by lack of inalienable freedoms we take here for granted here in the West. Muslims regularly laugh at Westerners because they view death as a pathway to the whorehouse with the seventy-two virgins. Subsequently, nation building is an exercise in futility wherever dar al-Islam marks its shadow across the earth.

      As for what to do – glassification of the entire Middle East is not necessary. Isolation and containment is the best approach we could use, interspersed with ruthless application of military force when warranted.

      We can start the reversal by drilling for our own oil. This places pressure on Saudi Arabia and the UAE, the current cradles of Salafism, and allows the US Government to tell both nations to get bent when they attempt to use OPEC as a tool of extortion.

      We should then proceed with cutting off funding to all middle eastern countries we support (Israel last – though Dr. Paul would see it cut off first) and limiting immigration from third world Salafist excrement holes like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Somalia. The Weinberger Doctrine should apply here, same as it did during the Reagan Administration.

      It should be noted that the Arab street will hate us no matter what we do. They have never loved us, though. Islam should be mocked and debased as frequently as possible, with Jyllands-Posten style critiques strongly encouraged rather than feared. All one needs to do is tell the truth.

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  17. kunsunoke

    @NachomanRandySavage – I was being facetious – though I did so in order to point out the irony present here.

    Despite the professed loathing of Ron Paul for George W. Bush, they share the same delusion – e.g. that Islam was/is a religion of peace. That’s been acknowledged as a big joke for over fourteen hundred years now, except by those two political loads and a few others (John McCain, Barack Obama).

    The word “Islam” means “submit”.

    As in slavery.

    The “peace” is only achieved after submission.

    And it is only sustained if one doesn’t think too hard.

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  18. kunsunoke

    @Blake – Rather than me taking up your reading list, I suggest you read the translated Koran. Start here – http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/ – then follow it with the al-Hadiths, and the al-sunnah. Read the histories of the early faith written by Ibn Ishaq and al-Tabari. They aren’t page-turners, but they are instructive.

    Islam is a mess because of the Koran. The Koran was written by one guy, Mohammed, who was a pedophile and a brigand, in addition to being a slaveholder, misogynist and murderer. In order to cover up his own inhuman, depraved and disgusting behavior, vices became virtues. Even his favorite wife busted his chops about it (“I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires.”) when he decided to marry his adopted son’s wife – and used a surah from the angel Jabril to justify the whole affair. This is recounted in the Koran (Sura 33) and the al-Hadith,

    The Imams don’t need to do very much to stir up trouble, because the hate is baked in. And there is no concept of obligation to those outside of Islam, either – it’s Allah’s will that Saddam got whacked, and the kafir Americans are no different from him. In other words, no good deed ever goes unpunished in daar al-Islam. To a Muslim, Jews and Christians really have it coming. But then they knew how totally full of shit Islam’s pedo-profit really was.

    My heart doesn’t bleed for a culture that murdered three thousand fellow Americans and countless millions before that. Yes, millions. Muslims murdered millions of sub-Saharan African slaves that were either worked to death or killed off as rape slaves, their offspring left to die in the desert (it’s why you don’t see many black folks indigenous to the Middle East). They murdered and enslaved millions of Europeans as well, during and after the original Arab imperialist wars of aggression. All of the aggressive behavior pre-dates the Crusades, which were a belated response to over three hundred years of continuous jihad. Yet Ron Paul and the proggie left continue to treat Islam as a favored morality pet, to the detriment of humanity in general.

    What we in the West consider anti-social is sanctified in Islam because enslaving the kafir or the People of the Book is called for in the Koran and al-Hadiths. Anything goes – even turning one’s own children into human bombs. Apostasy is punishable by death. Defiance is punishable by stoning or honor killing.

    But in Ron Paul’s world, we’re to blame for one hundred percent of their savagery.

    The US high command has always been stacked with shit-stains. We have enemies in the Middle East and Islamic South Asia – which is really captain obvious by now, since they’ve hated us all along for not converting to Islam.

    Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire, as was Chris Kyle (if one accepts the PTSD story being posited now). Tillman didn’t deserve to have the Bush Administration (who, like Ron Paul, misunderstood the nature of the conflict) turn him into some kind of poster boy for What Is Right and Good after he died.

    The same is true for Chris Kyle, who didn’t deserve to have some slinking asshole of a politician exploit him on Twitter.

    There’s a thing called decency.

    Ron Paul ought to learn about it before he asks for more money.

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  19. Arthur DelVecchio

    I agree 100% with Mr. Paul’s comment. He who lives by the sword does indeed die by it. I feel sorrow for Mr. Kyle’s family and loved ones, and regret that he was trying to help the fellow who killed him and the other gentleman. Having read Mr. Kyle’s autobiography, I did gain a measure of respect and admiration for the man for so selflessly dedicating his life for a government that did not appreciate it.

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  20. Blake

    @kunsunoke

    I disagree with your comment, especially this part “Subsequently there are fewer of those people around to kill us”. Unfortunately, that isn’t always the case, those who were killed have loved ones (yes, they actually do!), sons, brothers, fathers who might feel the need to retaliate against the US, so more may be actually stepping into the void created by Mr. Kyle. I’ve read some books on Islam from men who came out of it and yes, it is a mess, really to the point that it’s not the koran itself but the Imams and other leaders that interpret it. That takes it back to the last paragraph in the quote that I posted, people in power simply manipulating other people. (That is even more so the case when you realize the koran is only in two languages, Arabic and a watered down version in english. the people in Iraq and Afghanistan don’t speak or read either one!!! So all they know is what they are told by the Imams!) Every time we kill one of them, it’s just more fuel for the Imams to convince others we are the great satan and we must be killed. So I think war, especially this one is self-propagating. Also, we have killed tens of thousands of them accidently, in other words hitting the wrong targets with our bombs, that also creates more people that hate us and want revenge. This is the old country and these people have really long memories. Remember it was George Bush who started this “preemptive war” stuff, in other words “we are going to kill you first so you won’t kill us.” Now that’s evolved into drone strikes on whoever the White House seeks to kill, including American citizens. Who knows, next it might be the guy who won’t give up his AR-15! It’s only the natural progression of people who endorse violence (FYI, I don’t endorse violence but my house is well defended). A couple of good books to read about the war over there are “The Long Road Home” by Martha Radditz , a liberal I know but please give the book a chance, you will like it a lot, and Joker One by Donavan Campbell, the first half is kinda boring but once the action starts in Ramadi, you won’t be able to put it down, both are superb books about a bunch of brave men doing what they think is right. A couple of things you’ll learn from both those books is that the people over there that supposed to be our friends, AREN’T!!! And our soldiers not only have to battle the insurgents, but also the higher up commanding officers who are idiots. Pat Tillman found that out the hard way.

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  21. kunsunoke

    @Peter – “That is fine that you’re not religious, but to refer to someone’s religion or beliefs as “crap” is bigoted and insulting. I wonder if you would have said that if Ron Paul was Jewish. ”

    Some religions and religious or philosophical beliefs ARE crap.

    Those “religions” which require surrender of free will and free thought (ex. Salafist Islam, Scientology, most cults, National Socialism) are crap.

    Those religions that treat women and other races or religions like crap (such as salafist Islam) are themselves crap. Those that have the crap they believe as baked-in dogma (as Islam itself does) are actually lower then crap. Those that believe crap without questioning its actual morality relative to larger humanity are allowing their heads to contact and wallow within crap.

    Had Dr. Paul participated in one of those faiths, I’d have no problems labeling them as crap. But then I don’t worship at the altar of Dr. Paul (also crap). Likewise, I do not follow the faith that most of the Paul Nation does (crap).

    Labeling crap as actual crap is inevitably insulting to those heavily invested in the crap. Some people need to be insulted (repeatedly, and in mocking fashion) in order for them to realize that what they believe is crap. Calling someone a “bigot”, though – well, that really requires some actual moral authority, doesn’t it? Most of those that use that term lack same, as they are not the Pope, Dalai Lama, Brahmin, Levite, or high priest for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They’re usually phonies like Jesse Jackson and our current POTUS and his allies in the driveby media corps.

    Your comment about Ron Paul being Jewish was pretty funny, considering the degree of anti-semitism present in the Paul movement. Or maybe that just more outreach to Stormfront. Can’t be too well financed, after all – and the “third way” lunatics are usually reliable in forking over the cash, aren’t they?

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  22. kunsunoke

    @Jimmie – Given that the misogynist, bigoted expansionist aims of Islam in general were baked into the faith by the pedo-profit himself, Chris Kyle’s approach was the correct one.

    I can understand how Dr. Paul misses the point, though, since the Doktor spent most of his time overseas in the Middle East, outside of a hot zone. Perhaps he made some friends there, and was blinded to that reality – like his good friend George W. Bush was by his family ties to the house of Saud.

    By contrast, Kyle was in the shit up to his eyeballs as a Navy SEAL. Which is to say he was a real Navy SEAL – not the Jesse Ventura kind. Not the kind of Navy SEAL that most Paul Nation followers are, either (e.g. the fake, MW3 – keyboard commando kind).

    Kyle saw firsthand the destruction rendered by salafist Islam on its surroundings and did the best he could to curb the excesses, using the tools he had. He wasn’t pretending to be a hardcore Vietnam vet, or, for that matter, possessing a deep understanding of foreign policy.

    Kyle did his best. He was murdered after returning home while doing his best, and giving of himself. Whatever you might personally think of the man, Kyle did not deserve to have his reputation trashed by yet-another Vietnam poser attention whore.

    Given how reprehensible most Viet Posers (ex. Ron Paul; Jesse Ventura) are, I’d be entirely unsurprised if Dr. Paul dances on Kyle’s grave a little more. All he needs is the proper anti-war/agit-prop left-wing audience. Or maybe just a few more rallies at the college campuses or in Dearborn.

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    1. NachomanRandySavage

      Ron Paul’s good friend George W. Bush? Wha? Stop blubbering like a stroke victim and crack open a book. Use your head. You can do it. I sorta-kinda maybe believe in you.

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  23. kunsunoke

    @Blake –

    Here’s what you fail to understand.

    Chris Kyle was employed to kill people and break their things. He did that job extremely well, converting Salafist and Baathist assholes into wallpaper. Subsequently there are fewer of those people around to kill us, which was always their objective. You may confirm same through perusal of the Koran, al-Hadith and al-Sunnah, all of which call for Muslims to kill kafirs and People of the Book wherever they are found.

    Ron Paul (who, it seems, has never read the Koran) has made a career of enabling Salafist and Baathist assholes. It’s why he voted to continue funding to Hamas, whose goals are the same – conversion of non-Muslims, or destroying same through any means necessary. It’s why he pimps his candidacies so hard in places like Dearbornistan.

    It’s why Ron Paul has no business running anything other than a newsletter (albeit badly).

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  24. Jeffrey Fresco

    Why are some so angry? Mr. Kyle was a hero to some of you. I can understand that and it is obviously important to you since your leaving your response to that effect. Notice though, that if someone doesn’t see him as you do, that person isn’t throwing expletives at you or denouncing you. It would be healthier if the anger wasn’t directed at fellow countrymen who at times we may disagree but instead be directed at the real and present danger. The elephant in the room.
    The U.S. Government is placing it’s citizens in harm’s way reasoning that they are fighting to “protect our rights and freedoms.” The story goes that we are fighting those terrorists that are responsible for attacks (i.e. 9/11) against this country and it’s people. But, the persons that committed those acts of terrorism died in the act. Consider, if someone murdered a member of your family and then that murderer committed suicide, would you then seek to kill members of the murderers family? If so I wouldn’t waste my time discussing this with you. But if you wouldn’t seek to kill the murderers family, are you ok with the U.S. Government declaring war on countries in which the dead terrorists had lived?
    If in other countries, terrorists exist, then it’s a good thing that they’re in other countries. A group of individuals, a safe distance away in another country, brandishing weapons and shouting hateful things about the U.S. isn’t just cause for the U.S. to attack. Now, if the terrorists were in the process of aiming missiles at us, flying their aircraft over our borders, their navy steaming into our waters, rolling their tanks down our streets, that would be different. But they aren’t capable of that.
    The U.S. Government is unlawfully, unjustly, violating the sovereign rights of foreign countries and their citizens. Many people in those countries are outraged and have taken action against this invading force. Many of them have been killed in the belief that they’re resisting an invading force. Many people in our country, myself included, would be equally outraged and resist if we believed another country was invading. Unfortunately untold numbers of innocent people have perished (collateral damage), in our pursuit of some angry persons who remain in other countries.
    As a whole we don’t see the U.S. Government as an aggressor. Somehow the majority perceive that it is our “rights and freedoms” we are protecting by declaring war against some people in another country who haven’t done anything but wave weapons in the air, burn a caricature or flag and dance around it. I don’t feel that my rights and freedoms are at risk but apparently some people believe otherwise.
    If I was a christian I would devote some serious thought about this “Just” war if at the outset I didn’t see very much wrong with it. I don’t see this as God’s war. This war is the desire of professional officials who, behind closed doors, receive “support” from corporate entities. When there is much ado about little, and many people are murdered, money and power are lurking nearby.
    Mr. Kyle was doing what he thought was the right thing to do in “serving” his country. He should be celebrated for acting in concert with his beliefs in which he saw himself as a defender. Unfortunately, the illegitimate offensive action of the U.S Government wasn’t made known to him and many others, who will also sacrifice their lives while the “rights and freedoms” of their countrymen are being attacked, not by “terrorists”, but by their very own government.

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