Abortion
When it comes to abortion, the labels “pro-life” and “pro-choice” are very misleading: most people want to protect human life and have the freedom to make choices that do not harm others. The real question is, when exactly does human life begin? At conception, at birth or somewhere in between? Until what point can a woman’s right to control her body override her unborn baby’s right to live?
Ron Paul has delivered more than 4,000 babies. He believes that human life starts at conception, and that casual elimination of the unborn leads to a careless attitude towards all life.
Recalling his personal observation of a late-term abortion performed by one of his instructors during his medical residency, Ron Paul stated, “It was pretty dramatic for me to see a two-and-a-half-pound baby taken out crying and breathing and put in a bucket.”
In an Oct. 27, 1999 speech to Congress, Ron Paul said:
“I am strongly pro-life. I think one of the most disastrous rulings of this century was Roe versus Wade. I do believe in the slippery slope theory. I believe that if people are careless and casual about life at the beginning of life, we will be careless and casual about life at the end. Abortion leads to euthanasia. I believe that.”
During a May 15, 2007, appearance on the Fox News talk show Hannity and Colmes, Ron Paul argued that his pro-life position was consistent with his libertarian values, asking, “If you can’t protect life then how can you protect liberty?” Additionally, Ron Paul said that since he believes libertarians support non-aggression, libertarians should oppose abortion because abortion is “an act of aggression” against a fetus.
At the GOP Values Voter Presidential Debate on Sep 17, 2007, Ron Paul was asked what he will do to restore legal protection to the unborn:
“As an O.B. doctor of thirty years, and having delivered 4,000 babies, I can assure you life begins at conception. I am legally responsible for the unborn, no matter what I do, so there’s a legal life there. The unborn has inheritance rights, and if there’s an injury or a killing, there is a legal entity. There is no doubt about it.”
At the GOP YouTube debate in St. Petersburg, Florida, on Nov 28, 2007, Ron Paul was asked what a women would be charged with if abortion becomes illegal and she obtains an abortion anyway:
“The first thing we have to do is get the federal government out of it. We don’t need a federal abortion police. That’s the last thing that we need. There has to be a criminal penalty for the person that’s committing that crime. And I think that is the abortionist. As for the punishment, I don’t think that should be up to the president to decide.”
For many years, Ron Paul has been speaking up for babies’ rights. He passionately defends those who cannot speak for themselves because they haven’t been born yet.
In order to “offset the effects of Roe v. Wade”, Paul voted in favor of the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003. He has described partial birth abortion as a “barbaric procedure”.
At the same time, Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion.
Many people feel very strongly about the issue of abortion, and once they make up their minds they rarely change it. If you are undecided and/or open minded, check out this page and this site for more information about abortion, including images and a description of medical procedures.
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Killing is killing. Any mother who would kill her own child will never make a good mother. or wife for that matter.
Not all life, in and of itself is sacred. A cow is not sacred unless you are Hindu. Point is anything that you eat (plant or animal) was at one time alive. A cancerous growth in your body is alive but is it sacred? It like a fetus is a growing life force– entity. Of course unlike a fetus it never will be a human being. All I mean is just because it is growing inside of a human body does not necessarily mean it is sacred, while in the body.
Good point. You can apply the word ’sacred’ to most anything that you think is important to you — your favorite place, your beloved pet, your church, your religious belief,or people. The word ‘holy’ also has no pragmatic meaning, to me anyway. If all life is sacred, then plants and animals are also sacred. Anyway, the acorn on the ground is not the same as the lovely oak tree in my neighbor’s yard, it is only a potential tree, and we view the two differently. I do think that if one chooses to have an abortion, it should be done if possible, in the first trimester. After that it can be seen as a sad event, and hopefully an increasingly rare one. We need to work toward the goal of safe and effective contraception, affordable to everyone, everywhere.
I agree with you that all life, including plant and animal life is sacred; however, I do not agree with your acorn and oak tree analogy.
The acorn is not the child in the womb, but rather the unfertilized egg. Women discard eggs ever month because the eggs are not alive, as men often discard their sperm. When that acorn becomes embedded into the ground, is fertilized by nutrients and rain and begins to sprout roots, the acorn turns into a living and growing being. This is what conception is in relation to trees and acorns, not simply the acorn falling to the ground. I think that you need to reassess the situation before forming forming your opinion.
Your opinion “I do think that if one chooses to have an abortion, it should be done if possible, in the first trimester,” confuses me. What does this mean? If you believe a child is alive in the second trimester, why not in the first?
If I were aborted then I never would have never been born. This is a decision made by the parents or mother. We are totally different now than when we were born.
I agree with the mentally handicapped vs Einstein analogy– that we are all equal. I just differ as to when this equality begins, when human (being)life begins. We may not agree with you, as you are talking about some biological function and I am talking about when does this biological entity become human and have a soul. Science does not teach about the soul, and does not aim to do so. Religion and philosophy does.
My science side says that life begins at conception but my religious (spiritual/philosophical)side says it is at birth of body that the soul begins.
I am not saying I do not care whether I live or die, referring to one of my previous comments– care whether or not I was aborted.
This is a non-sense question. If I had been aborted then I would not care. I would never have been born.
E148: If you were aborted then you would be dead. However, I urge you to examine your spiritual side. That part would not be dead. The spirit lives forever. God created all men equal. That says that whether we are severely mentally handicapped or Albert Einstein we are all equal in God’s eyes. The sanctity of human life is of paramount importance in the moral framework of this country. Please examine your concious on this issue and you will come up with the right answer!
Ok. I neglected to mention: I am married with a soon-to-be 21 year old daughter. My Dad was adopted. He spent at least part of his adult life searching for his real parents. So I do speak from experience. I personally feel that half of my life is missing, so far as family history goes, and it is missing.
I know what killed my dad but not his parents or grandparents, etc.
Ok. For those that think that human life begins at conception because of DNA. Then you obviously think that the dust we all turn into is a human being as well, afterall it has the dna as well. But it is not a human being. It is dust– the essence of stars. A fertilized egg is no more a human being than the dust we turn into is. Obviously it has the potential to become a human being. Once a birth happens then try to do everything to save baby. By the way there is no such thing as unborn baby (or child). It becomes a baby at birth. Check your dictionary.
For those that think I am in college (in my 20s)you are far off. I am in my 50s. I have had 9+ years of college though, more than most doctors and lawyers. My IQ is higher than the average doctor or lawyer. I am NOT saying that I am smarter than Ron Paul just that I at least can come close.
Again, I generally support Ron Paul. This maybe the only thing which I disagree with him.
I am not for killing. I do not believe in war or in capital punishment only on the definition of human being and when this life becomes sacred.I mean would you call an egg a chicken? It is a chicken egg but not a chicken.
While I have not studied medicine, I have studied religion, philosophy, and ethics, as well as a lot of other subjects (Chemistry, Physics and Mathematics).
Also, I was in the US Coast Guard in the 70s, so I am former military, in case you wondering about my stance on war.
That is a stupid question. If I was aborted then I would not care. The question as to whether or not a “pro-lifer” is also a pro-capital punishment is not an absolute but the religious right generally supports both.
E148: “If I was aborted then I wouldn’t care”. Then you are saying that you don’t care whether you are alive or dead. Right?
This maybe the only thing I disagree with Dr. Ron Paul about. I do not believe human live begins at conception. A fertilized egg is not human. It obviously does have the potential to become human, but it is not human yet.
The slippery slope is a fallacy. It is one of the errors in logic. It is a reason one gives to discount someone’s premise, argument, or conclusion. To me to say that one believes in the slippery slope is to say that one believes in a fallacy. I can see where you can support abortion and still be against the death penalty. It usually is the other way around that those that support the ‘right to life’, also support to death penalty—capital punishment. How? I do not know. If you truly believe that all life is sacred then how can you kill someone? Capital punishment is state-sanctioned murder, not self-defense. The state (government) has no rights at all, individuals do.
If you want to quote the Bible on when life begins, “then the Lord breathed into his [Adam’s] nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.” Genesis 2:7
So life begins when you start to breathe air (through the nose), after you are born.
If nothing else if you believe that life begins at conception then you must believe yourselves 9 months older than you claim and all tombstones that give the start of life is also wrong. This would be then a lie and an abomination to the dead, or the memories of the dead.
This society is backward. They treat a non-human with so much respect and then treat them like garbage when they get old. We ought to get treated better as we age, not worse or at least the same.
From a practical point of view, in support of abortion there is the adoption angle. Adoption is assumed to be a good option to abortion but has problems that nobody seems to think about. Again, you are so myopic. You want the unborn to be born at all costs but there are costs that this birth of the unwanted child has later in their life. Besides the possible handicaps etc., and death of the mother during delivery there are some other problems, in no particular order.
1) The kid is either never told that he or she is adopted or they are told and spend some and maybe all of their adult life searching for their real parents and may feel abnormal all of their lives. They still sence a hole in their lives. This may end in despair and frustration for the unaborted child. You would want that thrust upon them as a life sentence (punishment) for just being born. If they are never told then they are living a lie. No matter what you may think a foster parent is not as good as a real parent, most of the time. Children bond better to their natural mother.
2) You know nothing of your family history. This includes what runs in your family, i.e., what diseases you may be susceptible.
3) Number 2 goes for the off-spring someone who was adopted. You know only ½ of your family history, at best, until the adopted one gets sick or dies, anyway. If both parents were adopted then you are back in the same boat again, as if you were adopted, so far as family history goes. Then you know ½ plus one person, of your family history. With each successive generation the family history becomes more and more known, unless someone else in the family was also adopted. Regardless, not knowing what your entire family history can lead to premature death. Again, this is not good for the child that was adopted and not good for the off-spring either.
Point is you worry too much about the unborn and not enough about those who are born and even less as they age.
To those that say that abortion may kill the next Einstein but the same could be said for maybe killing the next Hitler. Chances are it will be neither.
E148: I’m not usually a negative person but your argument is pretty sorry. With regard to capital punishment, you assume that anti-abortion people are pro-death penalty. That is a dumb assumption. Besides, do you know of any babies that have ever committed 1st degree murder? It’s a totally different issue. The bottom line is to ask yourself E148, would you like to have been aborted? I know of no one that can honestly answer that with a yes. Can you?
Good letter. There are so many reasons for keeping abortion legal. It would be a long list. Abortion should legal, affordable, and available to all women of the world, when contraception has failed or been unavailable. A child is too important to be an accident, and unwanted children so often do not have good childhoods.
you are a inteligent individual and somebody with a high degree of education. one can see that by the way you express yourself. im agree with you in almost everything but i think a fetus have life. im a sonographer and ive seen the beating heart of the fetus, so that tells me it has a life. i still think is not a crime to do a abortion because the fetus doesnt know is alive because it doesnt know life, it havent been born. i dont think taking the life of something that doesnt know life can be call a crime. i think that desicion is up to the futere parents and no 1 else. ultimatelly the future parents are the only ones who have the responsability of abortion or taking care of a human being for the rest of their lifes. i still like ron paul and i will vote for him if i have the chance.
i believe in euthenasia, i believe in death penalty, i believe in equal rights to homosexuals, i believe in equal rights to women, i believe that racist groups should be made illegal and erradicated from society, i believe goverment to run healthcare and education but im flexible to other tendencies that contradicts one or two of the ones just mentioned.
finally i think drugs should be legal like in the netherlands and gun taken away from people and police, i believe in a weapon free society. i believe in acusing of attempting murder anyone caught with a gun. because thats the only use it has.
—now all of you who protect life and think abortion is a crime come a attack me because i know all of you like to have weapons to kill others. i dont understand this people.
people will always find away to kill eachother, guns or no guns, weapons or no weapons. what is a fascist like you doing on a website like this?
Human life does begin at conception. From that point forward, the conceptus has all the human DNA it shall ever have. This is how all human beings begin, without exception. We do not measure whether the organism in question is human on the basis of it’s level of maturity, we determine whether it is human by DNA and DNA alone. All life on earth progresses through various stages of maturity, but not all life is human. Were we to follow the specious logic that since a conceptus isn’t mature that’s it’s not human, what possible objection then could be raised to taking the life of a post-natal baby which was born an hour ago? It’s not mature either, nor is it self sufficient or self responsible.
It is truly amazing to me, how man has always, always tried to improve on the word of God and nature also—to their
own destruction.
Man left to his own logic and theories is nothing more than minimal specks of nothingness.
I think that is mostly untrue i have known a lot of people who have been adopted and as far as i know they are happy, and their offspring are fine too. Plus they are all really close to their parents. My friend’s mother had her when she was in high school and i think about if this girl aborted my friend,i think about how great of person my friend is and it breaks my heart. Her personality shines so bright, she can make any one laugh. She wouldn’t be here if her mother had only been thinking about herself. Though she was given up for adoption she still sees her mother, and she knows who she is. Why should someone feel empty because they don’t know where they came from. It matters where your going, and what kind of person you are. I believe that life begins at conception because obviously that life was intended to be made. I had another friend who didn’t even meet his real parents but is content with that. He also has six kids,a wife he is madly in love with, and good friends. I think you are also wrong about how we need to treat older people better than younger people. I think we should treat them equally. The younger ones are going to be the ones running the country some day. I don’t strongly believe in the death penalty because people do change. Abortion is a slippery slope, if this county is for killing defenseless, unborn children, then who knows what we will do next, perhaps go into senseless wars in iraq and kill more young americans.
In answer to e148. It is obvious you’ve not very much experience in life yet. I gather you’re still in college or possibly just graduated and are a little filled with yourself. When you’ve gotten a little more experience in life like Dr. Paul or me (a father of two wonderful adopted children) then come back a talk about what you’ve found out. Learn one thing early in life. Right now your opinions do not amount to much because it’s apparent you are a young person full of angst and anger without a lot of experience in life. Wait till you are older, know what it is to raise children, love a spouse for 30 years and be in the service of others. Then your opinions will have something behind them.
Face it, you’ve got a lot to learn. Believe me, I’m still learning.
i think the choice of an abortion should be left to the future father and mother. they are the ones responsible for the future baby. goverment doesnt take care of babies in need of love, in contrast punish those with less in our society. church does the same thing. i think it shoul be up the the couple to decide. i believe in owning ones life also. i believe in eutenasia. i believe that if all unwanted babies are born the world will end soon. for menay reason. the church or the goverment doesnt take care of those unwantes babies so they better keep their mouth shout regarding this topic.
alex: Your argument for abortion is borderline retarded and your mastery of the English language isn’t much better.
Why am I not surprised that there are a lot of comments on this page? Lol, I am personally pro-life, but I think when it comes to laws on abortion, it should be dealt on a local level.
I’m with you on that Ted. Anytime the Fed gets involved, they really make a mess of it. Master screw ups they are. It’s amazing at how being pro life myself, libertarian and trying to explain to people that you’d rather it be done on a local level and that the federal government has no business in it, how misunderstood you can be. Both liberals and conservatives want a strong federal government and that’s just plain unconstitutional.
What would you say to a woman that has a severely defective fetus? What if she had other children? Would they be effected by the lack of parental attention? What would a mentally unstable mother do with a severely handicapped child? I think there are instances where an abortion should be allowed and the only person that should make that decision is the individual. To have it any other way is unconstitutional, think about it. There needs to be regulations in place. Would you adopt a severely handicapped child? There are so many bad parents out there. A lot of people are clueless about parenting, they should recieve some kind of training so they know what they’re getting into then be encouraged to give the child up for adoption. Teaching abstinence does not work. Religion should not influence politics. this country was at least partially on freedom of religion. For one group to dictate policy to another is unconstitutional. There needs to be reform for sure, but in order to make change we have to get away from the all or nothing practice. Religion needs to be taken out of the equation otherwise you are promoting terony. If you don’t bend something will break. Sometimes you have to loose a battle to win the war.
There are exemptions to everything. The severely handicap scenario is one possible exception, but I still think it would be wrong to have an abortion if it is 24 weeks or later in the pregnancy; regardless of handicap. By that point it’s too late and the only other option should be to give the child up for adoption.
The premise underlying our inalienable rights is that they are endowed upon us by our creator. They are not given us by any man or government. Therefore, they can not be taken by any man or government. Thomas Jefferson, the architect of the Constitution is quoted as saying: “Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.”
Just curious, in that religion influences man, and man influences politics, is it not then true that religious influence of politics would thus be unavoidable? Are there any religions that advocate abortion?
James: Good Point!
robin, right on. Abortion is an extremely personal and conplex issue. It must be left to the individual woman to make that choice. No one is forcing anyone to have an abortion, but those who want to outlaw it, are for forcing their decision on others. Free choice in this country means just that and we have to be always on guard that govewrnments do not take that away.
Robin: Ask Sarah Palin the first three questions and I think you’ll get the right answers.
Well my cousin is extremely handicapped and my aunt and uncle are in no financial position to support him but he is a light in there world. And the rest of our family. Just because someone is handicap doesn’t mean they are hopeless, you better watch what you say about handicaps someone might call you a nazi. I’m not because obviously you are on this website. There was a man who was completely paralyzed except for his eyes could blink. He wrote a book with a sign language that involved blinking. I don’t think religion should get into this either, but i do think that this subject really shows what the morals of this country are. Maybe the terrorists atacked us because we murder innocent children, that’s hypocritical but aren’t we all hypocrites at one point in our life time.
The Libertarian view is dead on with economics, the Constitution, and Sound Money. I am grateful for RP for his insight and respect for Life. I think the Libertarian party should consider his position more thoughtfully in this case.
Abortion is murder. The counsel towards of which is conspiracy to commit murder. Any participation is accessory to commit murder. Any act taken to conceal this fact from the American people is obstruction of Justice. Any attempt to assist in said act is accessory to murder. Any license to commit murder by the Government is Tyranny. This is how serious this issue is.
Abortion is spiritual suicide. Anything you tolerate you endorse. How much longer before God removes his blessing from this nation because of this licensed murder? How much longer will he stay his hand in judgment? God Bless you and thank you for taking a stand. You are an honorable man. America needs you more now than ever. Please consider running for the office of Presidency again in the year 2012.
I encourage all to turn away from the cunning language of pro-choice and refer to this as it truly is: “pro-murder”. Persevere and speak boldly {Ephesians 6:20}
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. {Ephesians 6:12}
* A womb is suppose to be an atmosphere for life.
* A womb is a prepared place for reproduction.
* A womb only accepts what is fertilized.
* A womb is a protective environment.
* A womb is a catalytic environment.
* A womb is a nourishing environment.
* A womb knows timings for birth.
I may be an atheist, but I believe in personable responsibility, and I agree with RP’s opinion that abortion cheapens our view of life.
The choice that I agree with is the choice to not have sex. It’s as easy as that. If you do not want a child, don’t have intercourse. Male or female.
I dislike the moniker “Pro-Choice”, because it’s a stance that is in favor of only 1 choice. There is no choice for the child, nor for the father. It’s hypocritical to campaign to let a mother choose whether or not to support a child, then throw the father in jail for failure to pay child support.
It’s not as simple a matter as a “man wanting to control a woman’s body” like the kneejerk response, nor a matter of Pro-Lifers being religious zealots. Just take responsibility for your actions and the world will be a better place.
http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics/fourteen.asp
This is the link to Murray Rothbard’s book, “The Ethics of Liberty” Chapter 14 which discusses abortion and children’s “rights.” I would recommend everyone read this chapter, and this book. We’re talking about a legal code of ethics, not morality. I could go on, but the late, great Mr. Rothbard is far more eloquent than I.
If woman only new that Women’s Liberation movement was funded by the Federal Government, their leader was Gloria Steinem…
Abortion is a way for the federal government’s worldwide to depopulate the world.
And yes the mothers should be asking that live baby would you like to be killed today?
And that day there will be a “Silent Scream” from with your womb…………………………………
NO the Politicians and leaders of many nations do not think like that..they want less babies being born in this nation….less jobs to offer …..
I am sorry but the only comfort that can be offered to,Liliana is to ask for forgiveness from Jesus and God the Father of the Universe……
I am sure the husband and the father of that baby needs forgiveness too…….
Many people have been in your circumstances….but also….the government provided you the drugs indirectly…..the government knows the Drug Program is working when they hear these stories….you paid for alot of their perks and handouts….and bonus’s…..sorry we have all been duped by the government in so many ways……but just think God loves every hair on your head….and don’t you forget that……..God is Love……
I love you too for telling us your story…..I hope it helps someone to not have an abortion……
You are so right. Abortion is Spirtual Suicide. It is evil. We can no longer remain silent. No longer can we remain “polite”. When I am judged, God will have a long list on me no doubt; but, on his list will not be turning a blind eye on the injustice to the innocent. Thank you.
Well, here is my story: I was married, and my then husband was very much into drugs. He got me into them, and we did quite a bit. The first pregnancy, I was clean. The second one, I was unaware until after I had done some pretty hard drugs. I was concerned for the child’s development, but I was unable to stop at this point. I was physically, mentally, and emotionally abused by my then husband, and partially bullied into having an abortion. Ultimately it was my decision. Had I not had the procedure, I don’t know what I would have done.
Since then, I have cleaned up my life, had a healthy little boy, who is on the autism spectrum, divorced my husband, finished nursing school, met someone new and wonderful, got remarried, and am pregnant with my second child.
I don’t know if I would have made the same decisions as I made back then, but the point is that it was MY decision to make and I would not want anyone else to try and make that choice for me.
It is not my place to choose for another woman, or to force my beliefs on someone else. I know that I would not consider an abortion currently. I have a special needs child already, and he does quite well. I don’t know that I would not choose to abort a child with SEVERE disabilities – as in something that would cause them great constant suffering and pain with an early death (by age 5 or earlier). It would probably be the most difficult decision of my life, and I won’t know what I would do unless I was in that position. I know what it’s like to want a child and lose it due to miscarriage. I also know what it is like to have to make an incredibly difficult decision, and while being bullied into it, knowing that it was ultimately the best choice out of some pretty nasty choices. I know what it’s like to have had a wonderful, healthy child who has autism. Hopefully this new baby will be born healthy, and happy.
I agree with Ron Paul on many issues. I don’t agree with partial birth abortion. I don’t like the idea of abortions taking place after the gestational age of viability, mainly because there was ample time prior to that to make the decision to abort. But I feel that it is not anyone else’s place to make the decision for anyone else. It’s hard enough to make the decision without having people standing around saying that a woman shouldn’t have that right. I was lucky to have the law on my side. I hope that it stays legal for women to make their own decisions.
Liliana–
“I feel that it is not anyone else’s place to make the decision for anyone else.”
Where is the asterisk (or parenthetical) at the end of your statement here? Don’t you mean to say, “I feel that it is not anyone else’s place to make the decision for anyone else (except when it’s the mother making a decision for her child).”
Does the baby have a say in this decision that is foisted on them?
I think all late term and partial birth abortions should be completely illegal. Those practices sick and nothing short of murder. If a mother doesnt decide by the time of “gestational age of viability” then abortion should not be allowed because she had “ample time prior to that to make the decision to abort.” To say that it is not anyone else’s decision but the mother’s to abort a late term pregnancy is an equivalent to saying that the mother has the option of killing her pre-mature child if she simply choose’s to do so. Besides that, the child is equally as much the fathers child as well, so it is just as much his choice as it is the mothers choice. I agree that the (potential) parents should legally have a choice early term. From what I’ve read 21 weeks is the gestation period for the earliest premature child; he weighed 1pound-6ounces and is now 22yrs old and healthy. Abortions before 22 weeks into pregancy should be completely up to the parents or just the pregnat woman if the father is not around; That’s plenty of time to decide. Abortions after 22 weeks should be completely illegal and, if performed, a just punishment should be given. Probably something similar to and/or atleast 2nd degree manslaughter, which I personally believe is a very light punishment.
God states in psalms that he “knew” you as he knit you together in your mothers womb. God is not speaking of the flesh and blood that he “knew”, but rather the ever-lasting spirit that he placed there. He “knew” that part of you that is eternal, that part of you that has always and will always exist.
Life begins at conception. I agree with most of your statement. However, the child in the womb is alive from the very beginning. To knowingly kill it at any time is murder and should be criminally prosecuted.
Criminal Prosecution should be as any other murder: Murder in the First Degree with Malicious Premeditation.
Thank you for shareing your story, Im not sure how I feel about Ron Paul. I dont think everyone can agree on everything. I thought it was the religous thing to not judge. I want the right to make my own decisions, weather its about my body or what I choice to beleive or not to beleive in.
yours tuely
Mrs. Carter…..if your so much into choice then why do you allow your government to purposely put Fluoride into your drinking water….or haven’t you learned about the toxicity of that choice which was made for you without your permission???
And a abortion is really not your choice its the goverments for the purpose of depoplulation…..
thank about that one for minute…..
Video Search from Truveo
The History of Fluoride, A century of neurological breakdown
The History of Fluoride, A century of…
History of Flouride Part 1 –
Part 2 will tell you the more….
History of Flouride Part 1 – See…
The Reasons Why Water Fluoridation is Bad
The Reasons Why Water Fluoridation is Bad…
http://www.righthealth.com/topic/History_Of_Fluoride
Fluoride has nothing to do with abortion. I think she wants less government and more personal rights. Abortion has been around longer than the threat of over-population.
“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. “But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (NAS, Exodus 21:22-24)
Humans are savage animals, Americans especially. We kill soooo many animals its outrageous. We aren’t even built like omnivores, we are built like herbivores.
Facial Muscles
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HUMAN: Well-developed
Jaw Type
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle
Jaw Joint Location
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars
Jaw Motion
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Major Jaw Muscles
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
CARNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
OMNIVORE: Large
HUMAN: Small
Teeth: Incisors
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Teeth: Canines
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted
Teeth: Molars
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps
Chewing
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary
Saliva
CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Stomach Type
CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple
Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
Length of Small Intestine
CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length
Colon
CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated
Liver
CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Kidney
CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine
Nails
CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails
For The Record !!
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=110644
Killing babies leaves room for third-world labor. We all want more third-world labor, right?
yes brother you are right. thats the truth behind the churchs in all latin-american countries with the exception of cuba, the church keep ignorant society against abortions so the elite can have cannonmeat. thats the truth, im agree with you.
do you know that in latin-american countries with the exception of cuba and puerto rico wich is part of the US they make women have babies even if is an abnormal fetus or is a product of a rape. with the ecpetion of cuba and mexico city only.
Circumcision is a related practice that needs to be outlawed, it is incredibly harmful and an atrocious denial of human rights.
visit http://www.norm.org/ for the facts.
I agree…as a student nurse I assisted with several in the nursery.
I cringed when I would watch this happening…I thought it was so barbaric…and some doctors took more skin off than others…I wanted to tell them no you don’t need to take it down to the shaft…….nooo. You have never seen a little baby scream so loud…..and we had to hold them down….its awful..just awful…I feel so bad that I as a nurse had to assit the doctor doing that…God forgive me…..
I wish mothers and dads could watch and they would never let their little boy go through that…it is really not necessary.
And then many years later I feel it is contributing to alot of mens aggressive screwing! A man who has not had his pleasurable foreskin removed..is a much gentler lover……
Now I know it was not only traumatic for a baby boy, but I wonder if it messes up their adult sensuality and oozing pleasure…this is what I think.but only a circumcised or uncircumcised man could compare notes…
I know African woman are circumsized too….and that is done so they will have no sexual pleasure during intercourse….so what does that say…..?
I”m glad I don’t live in Africa…..
I worked also in a Jewish Hospital, Learned that the Jews are the ones who started circumcision…they do it for religious meaning..but they do not use the “bell”…they just pull the foreskin out as far as they can and cut just a little piece of it off….even so none of it should be cut off in my mind…..
I was wondering why men haven’t spoken up about it years ago….
You guys would have to do a study and find out if it really makes a difference or not….
And then ask God to help you with that traumatic experience that has to be in your unconscious…I”m sorry …..God can heal that for you….your unconscious memory of it..I pray God will heal it and maybe grow you new foreskin!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you should know as a nurse that crying is a primitive response. dont you see the people living like vegetable that they laugh and blink also. those are primitive response. are you going to tell me that a unborn fetus knows life. for god sake it hasnt been born yet.
—forget god because nature is savage, only the strong survives. animal mothers will not feed babies that look sick. do research and find out.
I was circumcised and I dont remember the pain. I like my penis too and he works just fine. Many ladies say they like the circumcised look too, but this discussion is on abortion so lets keep it on that.
I was responding to: Alan Cherne says:
September 18, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Circumcision is a related practice that needs to be outlawed, it is incredibly harmful and an atrocious denial of human rights.
visit http://www.norm.org/ for the facts.
if you read his comment above mine….I know I am being rather clinical about it but also giving my opinion as one who has seen several done. I disagree with it…for stated reasons…and as an adult you wouldn’t remember it..as the mother soon forgets the pain of labor and delivery of a child….why don’t you ask Ron Paul…..he says he has delivered 4,000 babies……so he must have an opinion on circumcision and abortion…
As an adult I wouldnt remember it; that was my point. I always liked that i was circumcised. i never knew there was a group of people that didnt like it. This is new to me. that link you provided is a non-profit support group for men who have concerns about being circumcised. I am not 1 of those men. I never knew that there were men that had concerns of being circumcised unless they did it as an adult. the whole circumcision issue has never been relevant to me and i was never aware that it was an issue to begin with. Not that I bring it up in conversation but if ever someone would ask me if I was circumcised I would proudly say yes, and I will continue to do so. I’m completely ok with it. To my understanding, uncircumcised men are more likely to contract std’s and are more likely to get dry skin on the penis and the penis requires much more “maintenance” I guess you could call it, for cleaning and stuff. I assume boxer/brief lint can get caught under the skin. That’s only from what ive heard. I’m circumcised so i really have no clue how it is to live any other way other than from hearsay. I can’t say how it is to have a whole lot of foreskin but what i can say is that ive never had a problem of lack of sensitivity and to whoever it was that mentioned aggressiveness, im actually a very passive nonviolent person. I dont see the need to mention my sex life but it is certainly not bad. certainly no better or worse than a random uncircumcised man. I think the only men that may have concerns about there circumcisions are men that were cut poorly and that probably doesnt happen too often. If a parent is considering to circumcise her son, I dont see any problem with it as long as she knows the doc or mohel knows what he is doing. Some people do it for religious reasons too so just let them do what they believe. men have been circumcised for thousands of years and they have kids and families just like everyone else. Read Genesis chapter 17. I feel good knowing that even though I am a sinner I have atleast kept that covenant. but thats just what I believe. not trying to push it on anyone else.
Bjorn:
I appreciate your Howard Zinn quote, and I believe that you have correctly pointed out the fact that our founders were not all Christian.
While I understand your assertion that science has not figured out when a zygote or embryo becomes a human being, I would assert that there is a scientific definition for human life that would include zygotes and embryos. How many chromosomes does a sperm have? 23. How many chromosomes does an egg have? 23. How many chromosomes does an embryo have? 46! Is the DNA sequence the same as that of the mother or father? Remarkably the answer is no! It is something new, something unique, something never before seen coming onto the human stage. And it is alive and growing.
Before fertilization, it was not unique. After fertilization it is a one of a kind (identical twins excepted of course). Before fertilization, it was not growing. After fertilization, it is growing and alive. There is no other point in the development cycle that marks such a drastic change. Without the tennant that human life begins at conception, the question of what is human life is placed on a sliding scale. Some say 2 year old children can be aborted. I find that repulsive. Others contend that after a person has become useless they ought to be euthenized like a dog or a cat. This was done in Nazi Germany.
Many will argue that the good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the one. This is only a road to tyrrany. But when we allow the good of the one, even the one in the womb, to flourish, we will find that what brings the good of the one actually benefits the many inadvertanly or intentionally.
Take the case of the one who said that more intelligent people should be having children. This is pure eugenics from the progressive period. It’s nonsense. Whether his parents had a high IQ or a low IQ, a human being can be smart and do something useful. Think of how many nurses, doctors, teachers, parents, and such have been aborted. How much good could have been spread around to the many if these few (now upwards of 45 million few) had remained? Einstein didn’t talk until he was, what, five years old? I don’t know, I may have my facts wrong on that one. Still, this view that it is for the good of the race as a whole that only smart people have babies actually will have the effect of taking away many other smart people, and many other useful people as well. Abortion destroys our country’s most precious resource — human beings.
I’m for life, liberty, and the pursuit of property. That’s why I’m an independent.
I just think smarter people should be having babies.
Matt sure adds that elitist flare to our humble site.
Case in point. Don’t you mean ‘flair’ Louie or you still working at TGI Fridays?
Ahhh, the spellcheck giveth and the spellcheck taketh away.
It is so incredibly easy to set you up, Mattie.
Flare, as in ‘a sudden outburst’ … or, as in ‘burn out and fade away’. I guess with your proven tunnel vision, it was just too easy.
Just put that little piece of cheese on a string, and Mattie will dance that elitist dance.
amen!
Question: Why is their a fine of $1,000 if an Eagle Egg is destroyed? How much does the doctor get paid to destroy a baby?
Question: Why do men still not know how babies are made?
Question: Why do woman give doctors permission to kill their babies?
Question: Why are doctors not put in prison for killing millions of babies?
Question: Why do men, not feel any emotion when they insist the woman kill their babies?
Question: Why don’t we ask the men how many woman they have impregnated and how many live children they have now?
The doctors ask the woman how many pregnancies they have had and how many children are living?
If the men were made to be responsible and accountable for their seed/sperm for the rest of their lives, they would be made to have a memory of their sins….they do not feel the least responsible for causing a life or a death.
I am not saying all men….but I am trying to figure out why men feel no responsibility at all for that child and the woman.
I wonder where that term “fetus” came from, does anyone know?
what does it the word “fetus” mean? Are animals called fetus’s , or just humans?
Is there any country in the world who does not believe in Abortion?
Are there any graves for the unborn?
Are their any parades of caskets for the unborn, is there any morning for the unborn?
Were they given a name and birth certificate? Stating the parents names?
Did they sacrifice their lives for the purpose of depopulation? What was the purpose of their deaths?
Those children who survive a society of genocide, do not need sex education….until they are adults.
And Men and Woman need Family education and how to build a village, not how to destroy one! Here in the USA and abroad….
amen, again!
You sound very upset towards men. A lot of times it’s the women that don’t want the child. Some women have too many children from too many fathers and when they get pregnant again from another man they don’t want to deal with the burden of another kid and the ridicule from her peers, so they choose to abort. And a lot of women don’t know how babies are made either. I had a conversation once with a young pregnant woman that didn’t understand the concept of conception. She didn’t even know what it was. She didn’t know that a woman can get pregnant from just having sex once. She thought it took a lot of sperm for a baby to form. I’m sure that topic came up with her female friends before it did with me and she still didn’t know, so her friends probably didn’t know either. Some men probably choose not to take responsibility because the woman doesn’t allow them too. I’m sure there are irresponsible men when it comes to this topic, and if a man insists on abortion (as horrible as that may be), when it all comes down to it, abortion is ultimately the womans decision.
Excellent jan!
As for the “men” comments, I see where you are not attacking them, just bringing out a point and really, the truth.
It’s not an attack on men. At least I am not seeing that. You are just asking questions that usually are not part of the equation in discussions or decision process.
I can assure the gentlemen who voiced his question, my son, when approached by his girlfriend (she was 20) and told she was pregnant, was very involved in the decision process. Her family tried to push her and almost succeeded, toward abortion, up to the day she was going to be secretly whisked away.
My son suspected something and went directly to her parents home and made his stand.
Basically he told them “that baby is my baby too. if you go through with this, knowing where I stand on this, the blood will be on your hands, not mine!”
Anyone who thinks late term and/or partial birth abortions are acceptable is completely demented. Those procedure’s are so sick and disturbing I can’t even begin to understand how someone of sound mind can believe them to be anything less than murder.
It’s seems insane that this could even be debatable.
I just don’t get it.
My heart, my mind, my soul tells me this is killing.
And yes, I can’t even bear to watch a video showing what they do to these poor little souls.
I started to watch one about 6 months ago, not really realizing it was going to be a video.
My God! I had to stop and I felt like my heart was being ripped from my chest!
It just absolutely broke my heart!
I still can’t get over it.
IM AGAINS PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTIONS OK.
For the lady that does not want to bear an ‘unwanted’ child, I prescribe an aspirin.
Place the aspirin on the inside of your left knee, then press your right knee against the aspirin. Now, just put your butt against the wall and call me in the morning.
Well any scientist worth their salt will tell you that every human begins life as a single cell (zygote), formed when father’s sperm fertilizes mother’s egg. In it’s natural progression (outside influences excepted), this cell will develop into an embryo, fetus, and what even you might recognize as a fully grown human.
That said, I think it more pertinent that you define your position since you are advocating the practice of abortion. If you are unsure what constitutes personhood (as your above entry implies), how can you support abortion without a looming thought that you might potentially be killing a human?
The beginning of your post was semantically misleading Thomas, here is how you worded it:
‘. . .every human begins life. . .’
A far more scientific way of presenting this very true fact regarding human reproduction would have been: “. . .every fetus begins life. . .”
You are assuming that a zygote is human, or at least, that is what your post implies. My point in my previous post was that science has not determined when this fetus should be ethically considered human.
The problem with this debate that you are I are having is that it boils down to philosophical and moral questions, not scientific or judicial ones. So long as the debate continues to be driven by theological, philosophical or moral engines, I shall remain pro-choice. When science can definitively say: “The fetus is human at this point. . .” then I will reconsider my stance.
Regarding the philosophical ramifications regarding personhood, I only wish to bring up one more point to consider: what makes human life better than any other life?
What I mean is, every day, countless animals are killed, be it by euthenasia, slaughter for meat, pollution poisoning their habitats or simply abuse and neglect. If you are truly “pro-life”, then you would be campaigning for life of all kinds. If you were scientifically aware you would know that the entire planet is a symbiotic life-form, of which trees, oceans, humans and all other lives are merely cells and organs. What effects one portion of this planetary symbiote effects the whole. In my opinion, humankind has become malignant to the body of Earth, like a cancer, a cellular structure that once knew it’s place in the grand scheme of things has become over-productive and this hyper-activity of the terrestrial glands has caused the body of Earth to become diseased. Therefore, in my opinion, one less unwanted, uncared for human life could be a blessing to the planet. The pro-lifers always argue that an abortion may eliminate the future human who might have had the cure for cancer, but what if the abortive procedure actually removed the one human that would have tallied critical mass upon our biosphere, the hair the broke the camel’s back, to speak metaphorically.
Human life will be regarded with varying degrees of reverence depending on the religious and philosophical origin of the person. My opinion is a non-issue, for it is a religiously motivated one, as is every other person’s opinion.
Laws should be made according to the social ramifications of the action the law wishes to abolish. There is no need for “moral” guidance beyond sociology. Murdering someone is obviously wrong because it deprives that person’s family of a provider, whether they provide emotionally or financially. Stealing from someone is wrong because by doing so the thief is depriving that person of their needs and security, etc. We humans don’t need a God or a holy book telling us ‘thou shalt not because I will send you to Hell if you do. . .’. We are beyond that sort of necessity.
So, let us briefly look at the social ramifications of outlawing access to abortion. First of all, the population would sky-rocket. Take the baby-boomers for example, these folks account for approximately a quarter of the American population, and they were all born in one generation. Can you imagine the resultant population boom if even one generation were to not have access to family planning procedures? Could we really handle a twenty-five percent influx of new babies? You think your taxes are high now? Consider how high they would be if this were to occur, what with all of those teenage, single mothers out there applying for food-stamps, housing assistance and government child care.
Demographically most of these unwanted pregnancies would originate in the ghettoes and inner-cities, where a whole generation would grow up in crowded housing, amidst crime and gang culture. This would certainly not help the crime-rate nor the poverty line.
Finally, the number of deaths resulting from “back-alley” abortions would be on the rise. Of course it is easy to sit back in one’s ivory tower and say ‘Well, that is what they deserve for trying to commit murder of an unborn human.’, however it would not be so easy to pontificate so after your own daughter, grand-daughter or niece died in such a manner, in shame and filth, frightened and believing that she had no other alternatives.
Bjorn,
I don’t care to muddy the waters of this argument with the philosophy undergirding either of our positions (just yet, at least). Rather, I’d like you to address what comprises a human in your definition. You are the one who is advocating an aggressive, invasive practice to terminate life so, I think the burden is upon you to substantiate why it is not human life you are advocating the termination of.
As for the art of semantics and wordplay, you said, “A far more scientific way of presenting this very true fact regarding human reproduction would have been: ‘. . .every fetus begins life. . .’ ”. Let me understand your position. You said my initial statement (in my last post) was a “very true fact” and that it related to “HUMAN reproduction”. From there, you somehow surmise that a zygote is not human. First of all, why is a non-human cell the starting point in HUMAN reproduction and if you’re right & a zygote is indeed not human, what is it? Does it not have human DNA?
My response regarding the zygote question is that the zygote and all other stages of fetal development represent a human potentiality, and should not be considered human until the fetus has reached full term, is determined to be healthy and free from disability or sickness which might cause it to die shortly after birth.
If you believe that a zygote is a human, then should a woman grieve and hold a funeral if she miscarries in0 the first two weeks after conception? Shouldn’t this amorphous single-cell organism be given a name and be mourned as a loss to the family? How far are you willing to take your logic?
Bjorn,
So how is your diminishment of the pre-born to sub-human status (thereby condoning the termination of same) different from the rationale of the Nazis who legally declared Jews as sub-human (& similarly worthy of death)? Was the holocaust not the murder of the Jews? The more appropriate question might not be how far am I willing to take my logic, but rather how far have you already taken yours?
Btw, it may be hard for you to conceptualize, but many folks do grieve their miscarried children. Earlier this year, my wife and I lost our baby at 7 weeks gestation and the pain was not something I’d want anyone to go through.
All boils down to this: You do not want population congestion. I agree to that. However, choosing abortion is not the best choice. Sex education and familly planning, siblings age gaps to lessen exponential growth. After all, human dies from aging, diseases, murder etc. So there is nothing to worry about. We just wait for those natural causes of death to takeeffect on each life but do not rush in to end one.
Hey there Thomas, here are my answers to your questions.
“How do you feel about third trimester abortions / infanticide?”
I think that infanticide is avoidable so long as abortions remain legal and easily obtained, therefore I am in favor of abortion as a more desirable action than a mother killing her baby via neglect, starvation or violence (which happens more often than many pro-lifers would like to admit). The abortion procedure is quick and far more humane than tossing the unwanted child in a dumpster.
“What about genetic defaults?”
I am in favor of aborting genetically ill-constituted fetuses, as it is more cruel, in my opinion, to allow them to be born and suffer countless ailments and sickness. It would be far better to abort a fetus than to deliver it with organs outside of it’s body. As far as mental handicaps go, I think that mentally retarded fetuses should be humanely aborted as soon as genetic testing shows the disease. The mentally handicapped are a dead weight on our society, soaking up billions of tax-payer dollars in “special education” funds and other programs made to suit them. They are a drag on the resources of the parents and family members, monetarily, emotionally and spiritually. You sarcastically referred to “natural selection”, I believe abortion to be a more humane and safe alternative to natural selection. If we humans weren’t so technologically advanced, and were still living in caves, down-syndrome babies would have been left out to die of exposure and predation. We 21st century humans have a better alternative: abortion.
“How do you feel about euthanizing the elderly?…”
I don’t believe that the elderly should be forcibly euthanized (ie against their will). However I do believe in the Right to Die. I have in my Living Will that I do not want life-support in the case of a serious accident. When the laws change, I will also write that I wish to be euthanized should I succumb to alzheimers or dementia. However the decisions should be made while in good health and of sound mind. I do not condone euthanizing the elderly merely because they are a “drag”. On that note I will also respond to Dolores Y in saying that, yes, I am a Pagan, and as a Pagan I have a great respect for my Elders and view them to be the keepers of wisdom. This does not mean that I do not disagree with many of those who hearken from previous generations, but I do listen to them and take their advice into consideration.
Regarding Planned Parenthood’s allegedly conspiratorial background:
I am unable to see the point, this seems to be a straw-man argument, a contentious ejaculation into an otherwise interesting debate merely for sensationalism. So what is Margaret Sanger wished to control the African American population? That was a different era. Abraham Lincoln wanted to ship the slaves back to Africa after abolishing slavery, should we then round up the African Americans and reinstitute slavery just because the anchor of the abolition movement thought that it would be better if there were no “negroes” around at all?
Bjorn,
Let’s get to brass tacks, my pagan friend. Is it a fact or is it your opinion that a fetus is not human?
There are no facts regarding that connundrum Thomas, science hasn’t been able to pin point what “human” is much less when a fetus becomes thus. How do you define human?
Thank you Joan for your kindred voice on this issue. I too agree with the Eastern philosophies on when life begins.
RE: Jonathan et al –
I find it interesting that many on this board being so vocal on this issue are males. The sad fact is that throughout history, the male gender has sought new and better ways to dominate the female gender’s ability to procreate. Frankly I feel that this power that the woman holds, the power to make life, frightens men to their quivering bullocks. It seems to me that the majority of those opposed to abortion are practitioners of certain chauvinistic monotheistic religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism. These religions and their subsequent morals teach that inheritance is passed through the paternal line, and the only way paternity can be assured is to control the women and their breeding habits. Thus, anti-choice. Your kind railed against birth-control, it railed against women’s right to vote, and many of your political ilk also railed against civil rights and the abolition of slavery. In other words, chauvinists such as yourselves are backwards and do nothing but pollute the gene pool.
So Bjorn–
In your mindscape, at what point is it NOT expedient to resort to abortion? Are you among those advocating abortion through the 3rd trimester or perhaps the even more “progressive” approach of infanticide (ala Peter Singer)? At that, you’ve mentioned quality of life issues, so I’d also like to know if you think it suitable to destroy (albeit humanely, of course) those smitten–no doubt by natural selection!–with untreatable diseases? Oh, and also the elderly–how young would you start doing away with old fogies..maybe 64 so as to not encumber our more vibrant and enlightened generations with any unnecessary social security outlays?
I will say, with all of this killing, the movement might be subject to the invariable comparison to the Nazi regime so damage control must be a high priority! And that little pesky fact that Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger’s ambition was to rid the world of black folks and other undesireables…we must needs keep that under wraps. Not to mention the other point that nearly 1 of 2 black pregnancies are aborted–these won’t coalesce so well at all with your talking point on the urgent need for civil rights. In fact, left to the devices of a logician less astute, these realities would prove untenable.
But alas, you are progressive..you are enlightened..you are simply, Bjorn!
He’s a pagan. What do you expect?
I am not for abortion, but it is a reality. You can bet that if it were men who had the children abortions would be rampant.
My feeling is that most women who have an abortion do so because the “father” becomes just a sperm donor, disappears and leaves her to face the consequences. She is the one who lives in guilt, hurt, disillusioned, but not the sperm donor.
I don’t know of any woman who has had an abortion who didn’t so as a last ditch stand with no other alternatives.
If these politicians think it is so evil then let them help the women who are pregnant and adopt the children themselves or keep their mouths shut!
Norma: I believe we have plenty of people in this country willing to adopt. Correct me if I’m wrong. Also, politicians aren’t the only people that oppose abortion in this country. In fact, for the first time since Roe vs. Wade more people in this country describe themselves as pro-life than pro-choice!
Hey…then ALL of you who oppose abortion adopt one or a bunch of these children. Talk is cheap! Go for it! Save a child, but don’t punish the mother of th “sperm donor”. Adopt, adopt, adopt! If you do not you are phonies.
If adoption is so easy in this country then why are OUR citizens going to other countries to adopt?
This issue does not even belong in the political arena. It is only a vote buying tool for the politicans who want the “Christian” votes.
Like I said I am neither for or against….it is a personal issue.
Dear friends and fools,
If you are a christian, then you must be pro life, or else you must be a hypocrite. If you are an unbeliever, then I don’t blame you for not regarding life as precious, considering that you have rejected the source of all life. If you claim to be a pro-abortion, Jesus-loving, christian, then I will call you a liar to your face.
Chris Burleson
Amen!
PREBORN – 11 WEEKS AFTER CONCEPTION
* HEART IS BEATING (SINCE 18-25 DAYS)
* BRAIN WAVES HAVE BEEN RECORDED AT 40 DAYS
* THE BABY SQUINTS, SWALLOWS, AND CAN MAKE A FIST
* THE BABY HAS FINGERPRINTS AND CAN KICK
* THE BABY IS SENSITIVE TO HEAT, TOUCH, LIGHT AND NOISE
* THE BABY SUCKS HIS OR HER THUMB
* ALL BODY SYSTEMS ARE WORKING
* THE BABY WEIGHS ABOUT 1 OUNCE AND IS 2 1/2 TO 3 INCHES LONG
* THE BABY COULD FIT COMFORTABLY IN THE PALM OF YOUR HAND
Yes, those things are accurate…yet there is something else: could this “preborn” survive on it’s own outside the womb at this point? No it could not. I miscarried at 11 weeks with my first pregnancy. Once the fetus can survive on it’s own outside the womb, I think it should be against medical advice to abort. There was plenty of time to make up one’s mind prior to the gestational age of viability.
I myself am pro-choice, not because I support abortion as birth control (condoms are MUCH more cost effective and easier to obtain), but because I am not in the position these women are in. I don’t know their stories or what may have happened to them. It’s their choice, not mine. I would rather a woman choose to abort within the 1st trimester than carry to term and murder the living, breathing infant because she never wanted it in the first place.
Thank you Ron Paul. If for anything else you stand for, thank you for respecting and protecting, human life.
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”
“”For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; wonderful are Thy works, and my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from Thee, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance: and in Thy book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them.” Psalms 139:13-16″”
Actually, pro abortionist should be grateful we are fighting for their unborn. If we didn’t care, it would be easier to realize that it would be a few million, less liberals, who will hate in the world, to carry on your agenda/ torch.
Eventually, your breed would be no more.
You will become extinct.
I would be happier if you would just go live in Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, China and let us “live” in peace, the true Americans, we are.
However, we are non partisan when it comes to this issue and are defending your unborn child’s right to live, as well.
Just as our soldiers from time past until now, who have shed their blood to give you the freedoms, to spew your hate, in the guise of “free speech,” now we have millions of unborn humans, shedding their blood for your, “freedom” of “choice”
These soldiers are the same whom many of you refer to as “baby killers!”
Hypocrites!
What a sick, pathetic group you have evolved too.
Yes, it would be alot easier to think of you as becoming “extinct” if we had your mindset.
But we don’t. We value life. Even yours!
“The true Americans we are.”
Hmm I wonder how you find yourself in the “true American” category, what are the parameters for this assumption? Are you ignorantly assuming that because some people nearly three hundred years ago wrote the word “God” on a founding document that this meant that America was to be some sort of haven for ultra-right-wing conservative Christians? I think that your Christianity and the faith held by the Founding Fathers would be so extremely different that those venerable old gents would probably simply scratch their heads in confusion.
Someone who understands history would know that blanket statements are never true. One cannot say ‘the Founding Fathers wanted this to be a Christian nation!’ without being a liar. Thomas Jefferson was an agnostic and even rewrote the Gospels, editing out all of Jesus’ miracles and leaving only the wise words. Benjamin Franklin was a deist and new evidence uncovered at one of his homes in England suggests that he was a member of Sir Francis Dashwood’s Hellfire Club, a sordid little fraternity that would hire prostitutes, dress them as nuns, perform black mass and have wild orgies in the catacombs beneath Sir Francis Dashwood’s estate chapel. George Washington was a Freemason, and while their language tends to be of a Biblical, psuedo-Christian bent, those who know Masons or anything about their Order know that the Masons are very humanistic and merely utilize the Biblical stories as allegories to how they can become better humans. The higher levels of the Freemasons teach occult rituals and High Ceremonial magic as found in the Lesser Key of Solomon King and the Books of Abremelin the Mage. Washington was a 33rd Degree Freemason and was certainly privy to these occult secrets.
There you go, three examples of how the Founding Fathers weren’t as “Christian” as the right-wing revisionists would like to lead you to be believe.
“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Howard Zinn
Bjorn,
It is obvious that you are far better informed, educated and have a wider viewpoint than many of the respondents in this subject. He who brings God into the equation to boost his argument is a a bit arrogant, as it implies he is a spokesman for God’s opinion. There are many definitions of ‘God’ besides that of the doctrine of Christian church. It seems true that the single-minded opposition to abortion always excludes serious consideration of the huge social, political, and environmental impact that has resulted from the overpopulation of our beautiful planet. This narrow view seems to prevail, unfortunately.
Ultimately, no matter who you are, the abortion debate comes down to your beliefs or lack thereof. There is no hard, proven, definite fact that defines the beginning of “life” that is universally agreed upon by all. The biggest problem with the abortion debate in my opinion is that it is overwhelmed with morality and emotion.
I would consider myself pro-choice, but I still support Dr. Paul. I think there are atrocities in it, but I think that it can also be the best choice for a given situation. It all depends on the specifics. I don’t want to murder babies, but I don’t want their lives to suffer because of the circumstances beyond their control into which they were born.
I’ve witnessed several lives in ruin from both outcomes, but ultimately, it is a personal choice, and it should remain unregulated by any form of govt. in my opinion, state or federal. Emotionally it’s hard enough already, the last thing anyone needs on top of that is having to deal with legal ramifications and potential medical mishaps that would come from over-regulating a truly LIFELONG personal matter.
Just like John the Baptist, Jan, we are voices crying out in the wilderness. Most don’t want to hear it. They have hardened their hearts, for many, their hearts have waxed cold.
Folks, back then thought he was crazy, nothing has changed these thousands of years.
A seed was planted in their lives somewhere along the way. Until they open the windows of their hearts to receive the Son-shine, to nurture, they won’t see, hear or understand.
Mark Chapter 4 explains it best, of course!
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/mark/mark4.htm
Cry out to God for forgiveness……..Revelation 21:8
The Illuminati Tsunami is fast approaching and nearly at our doorsteps, but I still stand on dry ground for which my Lord has parted the sea for me to walk in……….my eyes are on the sparrow and my heart is with the Spirit of the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!
forever Jan in Christ!
That “cell” has the finger print of God in it. It is called, DNA. You know, it identifies who you are and where you came from.
But then, you would have to believe the God created the universe and everything in it to buy into that huh?
“professing to be wise, they became fools!”
i have no problem with and abortion when its still just a cell. i dont see the cell as a human yet i do have a problem with late term abortion as you described above the 2 pound living breathing baby being thrown into a bucket. but if women has an abortion i see it has her right to choose if she wants to have it she can.
Ya know, I knew you were going to say that.
If they don’t want, can’t take care of children, they should not have them.
Personally, in this day and age, if I were still in child bearing years, I would not have children. I would get fixed.
We live in perilous times and I fear for our country and the direction it is headed. It would be selfish to bring children into this world at this time, unless they have already been conceived and then you can only hope and have faith that God will keep them in his care!
However, if they were to be called home early, I will know where they are and that I will see them again. It’s not what I would want, but I know there is hope.
Let there be no mistake in what I am saying here.
Prevention not execution.
Ya, I agree. I don’t think execution is the answer.
Does the child hacker see humans as chattel?
3-8 Children in foster care have disproportionately high rates of physical, developmental, and mental health problems1,9 and often have many unmet medical and mental health care needs.
-American Academy of Pediatric
Wouldn’t it be a better world if we gave the same hope, consideration and attention to children?
The following statistics were compiled from the American Pet Products Manufacturers Association (APPMA) 2007-2008 National Pet Owners Survey.
Dogs
* There are approximately 74.8 million owned dogs in the United States
* Thirty-nine percent of U.S. households own at least one dog
* Most owners (63 percent) own one dog
* Twenty-five percent of owners own two dogs
* Twelve percent of owners own three or more dogs
* On average, owners have almost two dogs (1.7)
* The proportion of male to female dogs is even
* Ten percent of owned dogs were adopted from an animal shelter
* On average, dog owners spent $219 on veterinary visits (vaccine, well visits) annually
* Seventy-five percent of owned dogs are spayed or neutered
Cats
* There are approximately 88.3 million owned cats in the United States
* Nearly 34 percent of U.S. households (or 38.4 million) own at least one cat
* Fifty-six percent of owners own more than one cat
* On average, owners have two cats (2.3)
* More female cats are owned than male cats (73 percent vs. 63 percent respectively)
* Eighteen percent of owned cats were adopted from an animal shelter
* Cat owners spent an average of $175 on routine veterinary visits
* Eighty-seven percent of owned cats are spayed or neutered
6-8 million cats and dogs enter animal shelters every year and 3-4 million of those are put to death. 71% of cats and 56% of dogs nver make it out of a shelter.
That is truly sad. All the more reason that they need to be spayed/nutured.
Men and women should be spayed/nutured and then reversed when needed.
Everyone has to live with their decisions. Your conscience is or should be, your guide.
I don’t hate the sinner, I hate the sin.
We are all responsible for our actions. Who we answer depends on your belief system.
I answer to my God and try to do the right thing. I am not perfect, no one is. I am forgiven. That knowledge helps sustain me. It also, hopefully reminds me, to remain humble. Again, I am not perfect, but I am reminded by The Holy Spirit when I am about to say, do or act in a way that is contrary to what God’s reflection is.
Conception is a metamorphoses. Christianity, faith.. Ever changing, hard to explain, but it happens.
The cocoon turning into a butterfly, the fingerprint of God. Evolution could not have designed such a complex, well designed, creature, it was by design with the dna programmed from the beginning. Just like us.
I can only go by what I feel in my heart and my spirit are truth. My experience as well.
I got pregnant when I was 15 years old. I was 4 months pregnant when I found out I was pregnant.
The doctor told me he knew a doctor who would preform an abortion.
This was in 1970. My knowledge on abortions was extremely limited. I only knew that it was killing a baby. Not any particulars.
When he told me this, it scared me so bad and I was so horrified that a doctor who is suppose to save lives could suggest I kill a life, I got up and ran out of his office, crying.
I was already traumatized by the fact that I was pregnant. I thought I was a good girl and did not realize that what I did could produce life. I was naive and I guess, ignorant.
I was forced by my family to give my baby up when he was born.
I wanted to keep him. It went against everything I believed in, to give up my flesh and blood.
But instinctively, I also knew, that I could NEVER kill this baby.
He is my Moses. I prayed that God would keep his angels around my son and that he would protect them and keep his heart in his care.
I always kept the adoption agency informed of where I was so that one day, if my son wanted to find me, he could. I was hoping that one day he would give me the chance to tell him what happened and to know that I did what I did out of Love for him. It tore my heart out to let him go. Not one day went by that I didn’t think about him or pray for him.
25 years later, he found me. He Loves God, He Loves me, his brothers, his family and He Loves his adoptive parents.
He thanked me for giving him life. We stay in constant communication and see each other as often as we can.
He knows his brothers. His brothers have known about him from the time they could talk.
I am blessed. I know it doesn’t always work out this way.
It is my story and I wanted them and him, to know from me.
I have friends who have had abortions.
One girl in particular had 3 before she was 19. The last time I saw her, she was pregnant again.
She told me she had to abort the baby because her father was the commander in chief of a huge military base here and she didn’t want him to find out she was pregnant.
I told her that she could give the baby up so he could have a chance in life. The baby did not ask for this or to be conceived. Give the baby a chance to live.
She came to me a few days later and said she had a horrible nightmare that her unborn baby was crying to her “mommy, mommy, please don’t kill me!”
She was crying when she told me this. I stated “how can you then?”
Isn’t this your answer? She went through with the abortion anyway.
I don’t condemn her. I just am sad that her heart was so hard that she could do this.
First, thank you for sharing that was a personal story and nice of you to actually bring it to the discussion. That said, I am glad in your experience your child lucked into a positive household that allowed him to grow into a well adjusted individual.
I suppose we have seen 2 different sides of the story, I have seen women get abortions and rarely have I ever seen or heard of it being a whimsical decision, brought on lightly. Regardless of that issue there are millions of children around the world with no homes or families. Prevention is the best option in dealing with the problem, and is definitely more agreeable (if for nothing else because of the health risks to mother) than abortion.
Again the God portion of the arguement I will not touch because I am not a believer in the sense that I think it makes a formation of a logical argument for the entire society. But I will not that while you chose not to have an abortion, and you find the thought appalling that others do have them, you do associate with those who have them. You do understand their decisions while not supporting them. In a sense you I think you support the general ideal that people can make decisions for themselves, but you do not want to support those decisions which you don’t believe. An example is you wouldn’t want your tax dollars used to support government abortions.
PS I was trying to say that abortion is rarely a first resort to birth control. Some people don’t think and therefore it becomes their first and only option, but I don’t feel that the general mass of population says, “I don’t need to use condoms, BC pills, an IUD, ect. because I’ll just get an abortion.”
It is a terrible thing to contemplate no matter how you got there.
My heart just breaks for these little souls.
They feel every bit of that proceedure. It tears my heart out to think of it.
My son’s girlfriend just had a baby 8 months ago.
She is early twenties.
Her family tried to get her to abort. The day they were going to sneak her off, my son discerned something was going on.
He went over and made a stand. I was so proud of him. It’s his child too. He basicaly said if you don’t want the baby, give him to me, I will raise him/her.
They were not happy and announced they were going to probably go ahead with it.
He then stated, if you do, his blood is on your hands, not mine.
Thank God the mother, whom I have grown to Love, delivered my beautiful, precious little baby boy, grandson.
He is such a joy and everytime I look at his body parts, I am so glad they are all in tact and I look forward to every moment I get to babysit him! What a precious soul he is.
And yes, I tell him that he is a blessing from God every time I see him. I pray over him and ask God to guard his soul and spirit and protect him. Just like I did my son whom I did not get to raise.
God is good.
So, there you have it. Amalek 101 in a NUT shell!
This battle is not flesh and blood. It is a spiritual battle. Whether you believe or not makes no difference except where you will be spending eternity.
That’s your decision.
If your right, no problem. If you’re wrong, well, “that’s the rest of the story”
I know this much, our country is being dismantled. I am not going to be diverted with this bs anymore.
There are bigger and more important issues, other than conversing with you or others like you who come here to rant and rave. I am going to fight for my country, just as my family has fought for yours to express your bs. Blood has been shed in more ways than one for you and for me!
For the record, if I do not acknowledge you doesn’t mean you won. I just don’t want to cast my pearls before the swine.
It’s good to know that we still have Christian-like people.
Yes, Saul…aka “child hacker” and that no weapon formed against us, shall prosper.
I have found that when you resist satan, he will flee…he can’t stand to hear “the blood of Jesus”
Awesome religion in a political debate…
Personally, I am pro-Choice, but I support RP’s position that it should not be supported through tax dollars (a big issue with governement HC) and should be a state issue. Roe vs Wade should have toughted that the states cannot penalize a doctor or mother for carrying out an abortion when deemed that the mother’s health was in danger in accordance with state guidelines on what health is. It was legislation from the bench and was too broad in its effect.
My main reason for being Pro-Choice, besides being more of a theologist/agnostic than religious/atheist, is that I have seen the fun life of people that go through foster care, adoption processes, and orphanges. The self esteem issues associated with having no family and feeling abandoned are life long and many people are devastated by it. While abortion rarely is a form of birth control (I have never seen someone take the decision lightly like you would pills), its merit as a decision should not be discounted. I have a severe problem with the idea a woman could abort the child and a father could not stop it from happening if he wanted the child, but the reverse is not true.
Personally, I don’t believe that anyone should consider themselves Pro-Life on the subject unless they have adopted children. At that point you have taken personal responsibility to give those unwanted children a home and therefore I believe have a much stronger ability to say that Pro-Life is a better option. Saying people should not have the option, but then not doing anything to help those without a home seems very contradictory and short-sited of the ripple effects to leaving a child alone in the world.
Abortion is rarely a form of birth control?
??????????
I don’t agree that abortion is “rarely” a form of birth control. I say this from life experiences as a woman, human, nurse.
I cannot tell you how many times while I have lived on this planet, I have known or observed females, getting abortions.
The main reasons for many?
I don’t want my figure ruined, I don’t want to be strapped down, I have my education to think of, I can’t afford it, I don’t want my husband to find out I had an affair, I’m not ready, I’m not done having fun yet and on and on.
Rarely, I can count on two fingers have I seen where it was going to cause the death of the mother or baby if she didn’t abort or from rape. That’s my personal experience and knowledge.
Do I say that there are not alot of medically necessary abortions? No, absolutely not. Do I say there are not alot of rapes resulting in pregnancy? Absolutely not.
However, it ends up being resolved between the female and her family and or physician.
I have known females who were raped and decided to give the baby life. Some kept the child, some gave them up. But the point is, they gave them a chance to live. It was not the baby’s fault it was created. So why should the baby pay for something that was not it’s doing?
What a messed up world we live in. I can’t wait to go to heaven and love all those precious little aborted babys who are waiting for their family!
Well I bet George Carlin, if he could, would tell you if it’s bs, now.
“Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there’s an INVISIBLE MAN…LIVING IN THE SKY…who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever ’til the end of time…but he loves you.” – George Carlin
Invisible? Perhaps you are blind as Saul was. He was alot like you and those who think and act like you. You or I cannot behold His Glory! Until we stand before Him, face to face.
Until then, why don’t you ask him to reveal himself to you?
Perhaps it will be an experience like Saul/Paul had on the road to Demascus.
First Reading: Acts of the Apostles 22:3-16
“I am a Jew, born at Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamali-el, educated according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as you all are this day. I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison both men and women, as the high priest and the whole council of elders bear me witness. From them I received letters to the brethren, and I journeyed to Damascus to take those also who were there and bring them in bonds to Jerusalem to be punished.
“As I made my journey and drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from heaven suddenly shone about me. And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?’ And I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And He said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you are persecuting.’ Now those who were with me saw the light but did not hear the voice of the One who was speaking to me. And I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Rise, and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do.’ And when I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and came into Damascus.
“And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing by me said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And in that very hour I received my sight and saw him. And he said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know His will, to see the Just One and to hear a voice from His mouth; for you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
For all we know, god could be Zeus or Krishna. What if the Muslim god was the true god? Can’t there be more than one god? It seems like every race has one of their own. What if each race was created by different entities?
Whatever you perceive in your mind to be true, will be true to you.
Whether it is fact, is another question.
I know for a fact, Jesus is The Son of The Living God. He came here as a sin offering for you and for me and the rest of the world. It is a free gift for those who will accept it no matter what you have done.
It’s “free choice” and pro life.
No one is putting a gun to your head and telling or asking you to accept it. Free will. You have no one to answer to but Him when you stand face to face with Him.
Then, you will know, TRUTH.
Faith.
There are historical documents on these other people as well as Jesus. Can they both not be fact?
Only Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be The Son.
longshotlouie replies:
August 13th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Only Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be The Son.
Correct.
Jesus went on, however: “But who do you say that I am?” (Matthew 16.15). Peter’s answer was: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matthew 16.16), that is to say, “The people say you are a prophet but I say you are far more than a prophet, you are the Son of God”. The response of Jesus has acute relevance to the very subject we are discussing:
“Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven”. Matthew 16.17
“My Father has revealed this to you”, was his reply. The realization that he was the Son of God came not through ordinary “flesh and blood”, that is, human wisdom and perceptiveness, but by a direct revelation from heaven. It was also a proof that Jesus was not one of the children of God in a metaphorical sense but the Divine Son who could only be known by a revelation from the Father himself.
Not true, there are lots of holy births and “son’s of god.” Judaism claims that Jesus is not one of them.
Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, and Mithra were all born of a virgin and all but one were born on Dec 25th and resurrected after they died.
Child Hacker compares Masonic mythology to the known Jesus of Nazareth?
Horus was the son of Isis and Osiris. He was a myth. Jesus of Nazareth was a person. He existed. Therein lies the biggest difference. As for the date December 25? It’s a falsehood. No one knows the date of birth for Horus, and since it’s a myth, it seems pretty silly for someone to claim his birthday was December 25th, don’t you think? By the way, at the time of Horus and the other myths, we didn’t have a December 25th. That date came about when the Georgian calendar was created, after the birth of Christ.
Do you meet Christians that still believe that 12/25 is the actual day of His birth?
Okay. Walking on water, healing the sick, turning water into wine, and resurrecting from the dead don’t sound like mythological characteristics to you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KVoYJ5YSzM&feature=related
First off, who’s “our” “we?”
Not “ME”
Yes, many don’t give a damn about life. That’s what this discussion is about. Yes, many only give a damn about power and control.
And being on top of the world reminds me of when satan “tried” to tempt Jesus, (by the way, satan used God’s word, out of context, just as all unbelievers do, against Christians) to the mountain top and told him he could have all that he saw if he bowed down and worshiped satan.
The Temptation of Jesus
1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[a]”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
” ‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[b]”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[c]”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[d]”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
Another reason you who hate God will never get it.
You refuse to read His Word. You refuse to acknowledge that there is “satan” yet when convenient you use “Gods Word” by changing scripture to fit your needs or agenda.
So what is it? You deny him but use His Word to argue.
If he doesn’t exist, you can’t justify your actions.
But then the father of all lies, satan used God’s words against him as well. Kind of like radicals do.
I have to remind myself constantly, when I listen to you folks:
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
What’s that tell you?
It tells me that our people don’t give a damn about life, but only about power. Maybe that is why we support war. Maybe that is why we enjoy being on top of the world while others suffer from our behalf.
God- “Now go and attack Amalek and utterly destroy all they have and do not spare them. Kill both man and women, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”(1 Sam. 15:3)
And God knew Saul wouldn’t. Which is why we now have terrorist, islam extremist killing us! I doubt you will read this but if you want facts relating to this, here it is.
Remember, you are using God’s Word to make a point. I am utilizing His Word, to clear up your confusion and attacks.
You want the truth or are you just talking to be talking?
Inthe Bible, Amalek is the anti-Israel.
Starting in Genesis, Amalek comes into the world as the grandson of Esau – Esau, Abraham’s grandson, Isaac’s son, and Jacob’s dangerous brother, Esau.
Esau is the man who thought so little of God’s blessing that he traded it for a pot of soup! His illegitimate but direct descendant Amalek bred and multiplied and became a family and then a nation: a jealous, cruel nation.
In the course of more than 100 generations, Amalek spread, like a virus. It shared its seed with every nation.
The theory of this blog piece is that, historically, not merely as metaphor but in a very real sense, Amalek exists as an infectious spirit: a contagious infestation of fierce jealousy, envy, injured pride and ultra-violence.
God created Israel as a force for holiness: Amalek is Israel’s opposite. Amalek is Israel’s destroyer.
Nazi Germany incarnated Amalek. From 1933 until May, 1945, Amalek ruled Germany. The German people became Amalek.
This is not to say that every single German in that time period became evil. Not at all: the Germans themselves suffered from the Nazis. Some Germans hated the Nazis and everything they stood for. Some Germans were good, even saintly people. But it’s still fair to say that, in that time period, the German people accepted Nazism. In other words, the spirit of Amalek infected the German people.
The Nazis infected the Arab world with the Amalek virus, and the same virus has now spread to much of the Muslim world. Again, some Arabs today and some Muslims today despise this evil, just as there were Germans who lived under Hitler and the swastika who hated Nazism. But it’s still fair to say that the spirit of Amalek infects the Arab world and that the spirit of Amalek infects Islam. And now Amalek – as the Nazis did – threatens the world.
Amalek hates Israel and all whom it associates with Israel. Amalek hates America.
Amalek is furiously jealous. Amalek attacked America and “the Jews” on 9/11. Amalek infects and has become Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda and Fatah and Hamas. Amalek cannot be appeased. Amalek threatens the world like the Nazis – the Muslim and Arab Amalekites’ recent predecessors – menaced the world.
Exodus 17:16: The Lord hath sworn, the Lord will have war with Amalek in every generation (from generation to generation).
Israel is commanded to “blot out the memory of Amalek.”
The spirit of Amalek operates as the antithesis of and greatest hindrance to the manifestation of the reign of God in the world.
‘When will the name of these [Amalekites] be blotted out?’ asks the Midrash, the ancient rabbinic commentary on the Book of Exodus. ‘When idolatry is eradicated together with its worshippers, and God is recognized throughtout the world as One, and His kingdom is established for all eternity.’ (Midrash, Mechilta on Exodus, chapter 17)
In Deuteronomy 25, God commands Israel: Remember what Amalek did to you, on the way, when you were leaving Egypt: that he happened upon you on the way, and he struck those of you who were hindmost, all the weaklings at your rear, when you were faint and exhausted, and he did not fear G’d. . . You shall wipe out the memory of Amalek from under the heavens – you shall not forget! (Deuteronomy 25:17-19)
Amalek appears in every generation. Not every evil character and not every enemy of Israel is Amalek. The Babylonians who destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem weren’t Amalek, for instance. Neither were the Romans who destroyed the Second Temple. But the Edomites who called out to the Babylonians to “destroy, destroy” (as the Bible’s Writings record) were Amalek; the Nazis were Amalek, and the Arabs and Muslims who live jealous of Israel, who pray to a Jew-hating Allah, who furiously envy Israel: they are infected with the spirit of Amalek.
Al-Qaeda and the vicious terrorists who carried out the attacks on America “and on the Jews” on 9/11 are Amalek. By attacking America they hurt Jews and by attacking Jews they hurt America, they think.
I thought all life was sacred, even chickens.
Guess Nero-bamas spiritual counseler/teacher was somewhat prophetic……those Amalek chickens did come home to roost!
So do you think its okay that we are killing Al-Qaeda and all the afghan people because they are present day Amalek? “man and women, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” The innocent must die too i guess..
Abortion: The Ultimate Child Abuse
Many of those who support abortion would fight to save an animals life first ie; PETA. It’s a shame we don’t see them utilizing their energy and resources to save a fellow human being.
There is no argument here. Hateful ones would argue “they are fetuses” That’s just another new age term for baby which leads to the fact below:
2 Timothy 3:1-5:
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Many of those who are against abortion support killing animals. Why? Because they have no purpose in life or is that their purpose? You might as well kill off all the mentally challenged people and all the freeloaders while we’re at it.
You need to go back and read your response. I truly believe that there is an element missing from your dna that stops you from using common sense. This is why we are not suppose to argue with you. You are blind. You are deaf and I will leave the last part of that, alone.
Common sense? Oh ya.. It is common sense to kill all mammals but humans. Oh wait, we shouldn’t kill lions or elephants or kangaroos, but we should kill cows, bears, and chickens. If selective killing is common sense, than our common knowledge has been tainted.
Nope. All God’s creatures are sacred which is why he brought them two by two to the Ark.
Typical, you take a portion of a statement and try to turn it around.
All life is sacred. ALL LIFE. LIFE. I have made it as easy and clear to understand.
Didn’t noah live to be 500 hundred years old? Typical bible crap.
It’s a shame we can’t abort the crazy Christians who believe the nonsense in that contradictory bible of theirs. Apparently God couldn’t stop contradicting his own thoughts on what is right and wrong. Some deity he is. The guy can’t even cure an amputee, even though the bible clearly says that your prayers will be answered. Either he’s impotent, which explains why he can’t show his face, or email his message directly into our minds or write it in the clouds or something that would make his message clear to all of us. No, this numbskull has to pass his message along, get this, by telling just one person, and hoping that person not only gets it right, but spreads it around from person to person. Jeez, isn’t that about the dumbest way to get your super important message to everyone? He must have gotten a C- minus in Deity College. He’s the George Bush of Gods imo. We can do better.
So, why aren’t you showing your face?
You see, typical double standards and hypocrisy.
I have seen many miracles from The Lord.
I have also had some prayers not come to pass.
If you have a child and he wants something from you, even though to that child it is imperative they have it now, if there is a reason you cannot give that child what they are asking for, at that moment, or even at all, doesn’t mean you don’t love your child.
It means that you have your reasons which the child cannot comprehend because the child is only seeing the need on their level.
If what the child is asking for may cause future repercussions, you would have to weigh that out as a responsible parent.
The problem here is, you don’t believe in God and therefore you will never understand a thing about him. You refuse to.
It’s not about religion, it’s about a “personal relationship” with Him. Until you experience that, you can’t understand it.
When does life begin?
Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”
Supporters of abortion can and will vehemently try to justify their diabolical beliefs. But one thing you cannot change,
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Isaiah 45: 7
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
You just confirmed what so many like you and who have come before you confirm:
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
God gave us all of these qualities.
When he formed us in the womb, he gave us the knowledge of good and evil.
What YOU, I, we, do with it, is the distinction.
“So says the Lord: ‘Behold, I frame evil against you and divise against you…’”(Jer 18:11)
Those who have bloodied their hands will pay. Most likely not in this life time. Most of them do not believe in the hereafter because it is not convenient to their beliefs or agenda. What they fail to realize is, if it is true, that there is an after life, (and there is) Woe, Woe, Woe, to you who have murdered and butchered or even supported this heinous act!
These precious, precious little ones, my heart aches, my tears ache for the innocent ones. The only consolation is that they are and forever will be, In the tender care of The Heavenly Father!
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”
God said, I believe it, it is settled.
“At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become
as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.”
A quibble I have with Ron Paul. I think he is the most honest politician in the country, probably among the most credible among all politicians in our history. However, I caught him saying something that impugned his credibility with me. It was dishonest, and it bugs me. I’ll still vote for the guy and believe in him, but he did hurt his credibility when he was asked if he believed in evolution and he sidestepped it and said something like ‘well, it is only a theory after all.’ I expect that from ignorant Christians, but not from scientifically trained persons like Dr. Paul. Anyone that has any knowledge of science and the scientific method knows that a theory, in scientific vernacular, is more than just a guess. It’s a model or explanation that encompasses all the facts. Evolution is both fact and theory, and for a doctor to shrug his shoulders and say, “it’s just a theory” is disingenuous. He’s either ignorant or dishonest, and neither of those possibilities comfort me.
God kills 30,000 children everyday from hunger. Children who pray to him every day. If they don’t have the right to live, than why would any child.
Why god is evil..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pge7GvFKSnk
…
God has given us free will- we are responsible for the deaths of these children due to our indifference. We are a society of convenience, immediate gratification, and self centeredness. (I know that spelling is wrong, sorry). We prefer cheap labor and cheap prices. “save more, live better” Walmart. We can put it off on God because that is easier, isn’t it? So hard to examine ourselves and institute change…. ps yes I am as guilty as the next guy and apply this to myself. I am a work in progress.
Wow, that’s one angry childhacker.
Seems to be blaming the sins of man on God!?!
If god didn’t want abortion, than he wouldn’t have made it. He is standing side by side with the bible thumper’s holding their rifles. God is destructive; he feeds off of war.
Idiot!
“The fetus, given the opportunity to develop properly before birth, and given the essential early socializing experiences and sufficient nourishing food during the crucial early years after birth, will ultimately develop into a human being.”
- John P. Holdren
‘Human Ecology’ – page 235
John P. Holdren is advisor to President Barack Obama for Science and Technology, Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, and Co-Chair of the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology
[...] unwillingness to provide straight answers to questions regarding the public funding of abortion in their plan. He also argues that a mandatory nationalized healthcare system would harm medical [...]
[...] unwillingness to provide straight answers to questions regarding the public funding of abortion in their plan. He also argues that a mandatory nationalized healthcare system would harm medical [...]
US Senator Howell Heflin (D-Ala.) coined the statement,” Speaking as a former fetus, I am vehemently opposed to abortion.” A not only humorous but profound statement. For if a human does not respect the development of human life and acknowledge not only the need but also the responsibility to protect this development , then how can that person regard human life in itself as having value? The very term conception means “the beginning of a specific process or chain of events.” This being the case, then one cannot logically argue that conception is not the beginning of life. One would be relativizing a concrete term devised and used historically to define a specific event… the beginning of life. Would one be silly enough to say that the term death does not define the end of life? Or the start of a race is not the same as the beginning of a race? If one said that life starts at birth, then, where at birth? When the head comes out, when the body comes out? When the baby first breathes, cries, moves? Or life starts when the baby is viable… when is that? When one begins nursing, eating solid food, finding one’s own food? Truly, there is only one event, one exact moment of time that can absolutely define the beginning of life… conception.
YouTube yanks another vid
http://www.abortionno.org/
I sat by and allowed my girlfriend (15 years ago) to have two abortions. At the time, having kids was an inconvenience and adoption from her point of view was not an option.
Life is such a miracle and while I have forgiveness through the Lord, the pain is still palpable. Those that argue for abortion rights are darkened in their reasoning. They are either ignorant, deceived or evil. There really is no middle ground.
Awe..so sorry Geoff. You will see them again and they will be waiting for you with open arms.
The Love you will experience then, you can experience now. Faith. If we knew now, what we will know then, when we come face to face with the Father, we would not suffer so much.
Joy cometh in the morning.
We have so many promises from God and so much forgiveness.
That is the Hope we have. We have that promise. If we ask for forgiveness, He is faithful and true to forgive.
Children are a gift from God. They are waiting for their daddy.
“Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of. So that Roe was going to be then set up for Medicaid funding for abortion. Which some people felt would risk coercing women into having abortions when they didn’t really want them.”
- Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Read again, slowly
’nuff said
Abortion is an issue that demonstrates how far human beings have yet to evolve, both socially and biologically. The cultural roots of abortion run deep. In ancient Carthage child sacrifice was very popular–especially in times of famine. A family ended up with one less mouth to feed, and the gods were appeased. This attitude turned the Romans’ stomachs.
Today, our country follows Carthage, not Rome. We just take the child’s life before birth and spout pseudoscientific babble as justification.
When will people stop placing labels that dehumanize classes of human beings, such as using the word “fetus” instead of “baby”? How many historical examples of the debasement of the language for the purpose of assuaging guilt over the extermination of a class of human beings can you think of?
The life of every animal begins at conception, for that is when the unique genetic code for that animal comes into existence. After that moment, there is no one moment at which a human may be said to naturally gain value. When will we stop claiming that classes of human beings do not possess value as human beings, thereby justifying their destruction?
The idea that God places a soul into a fetus at some state of development thereby making it fully human is positively medieval. Valid concepts are related to reality, and “God” and “soul” are not related to anything anyone can experience. How long will “god” be used to justify societal horrors?
How long will we justify the killing of those who cannot speak for themselves, the weak or the inconvenient? Every motive for abortion is also a motive for murder. Let us evolve to care for all individuals. When a woman becomes pregnant, married or not, we should celebrate her step in the great experiment of life. It should be a time of joy, just as it is a time to acknowledge great personal responsibility.
At the same time, if we are not yet ready to evolve beyond our primitive notions of human value, this issue should not dissuade us from other valid goals, like limiting the power of the federal government. Government power IS the power to point guns. (If you do not pay your taxes, someone from the government will eventually come to your house wearing a gun and will force you to jail.) Those who value life must also value limited government.
Agree 100%
S. Aldrich:
The idea that Ron Paul will not get elected because of his
“strong pro-life stance” is absolutely asinine. I have only
heard one time his mentioning a “strong pro-life stance”; I
imagine because he is up to his ears in all the bullshit he
is dealing with in Washington D.C. I do not see how he is
able to juggle all the issues coming up out of the cesspool
we call Washington D.C., and still have any resemblance of
life or sanity.
As an anarchist, I completely support Ron Paul, even though
at this point I do not trust any form of government whatsoever.
He has a complete diversity of people behind him; many with
whom I do not agree with. But we have to set aside ALL differences and defeat the “hydra” we are up against. I am
sick and tired of hearing people in this “Camp” engaging in
in-house fighting over “differences” of opinion. If I can
set aside my differences, then everyone else beside me better
get their shit together before we are all consumed by the
establishment!
See the video that was spiked by youtube.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2995936/planned_parenthood_falsely_says_abortion_pictures_are_not_real/
S Aldrich: to suggest that the issue of abortion should be left to women & their doctors is tantamount to suggesting the issue of slavery be left to plantation owners and their tobacco merchants. In both cases, you have the suppression of someone’s life at the discretion of another.
I agree with Ron Paul on almost all issues, except abortion. I agree that abortion should not be a birth-control tool, and I disagree with late-term abortion, but I think the issue of abortion is up to women and their doctors, and therefore I am pro-choice. This issue should be kept out of politics! Sadly, Ron Paul’s strong “Pro-life” stance will keep him from getting elected.
In consideration of the hostility our politicians have towards their own country, I don’t consider abortion a major issue.
However, I think Roe v. Wade is probably the best decision regarding a no-win issue, 1st trimester abortion being between a woman and her doctor and restrictions thereafter. Because to me abortion comes down to a religious issue and an individual’s personal religious view of where life begins even though my personal belief says abortion is almost never acceptable.
Once a pregnancy enters 2nd trimester, she has implied she will carry the pregnancy through by failing to get an abortion earlier and I couldn’t care less about her perception she’s entitled to abort beyond 13 weeks. This is unacceptable in almost all instances if it’s even acceptable to begin with.
You are correct that we have so many other issues that we have to deal with. However, the reason Abortion is such a huge issue is that it is a matter of one of our basic liberties outlined in the Declaration of Independence. If we cannot decide to protect Life then what is the point of discussing any other issue?
Do you care that your mother didn’t abort you? I bet you’d be pretty damn mad if you were killed before you had a chance to live a life. Stupid idiot
Extermination of life is a religious issue, only?
So confusing, hmmmm, one side says that terminating unwanted life is just. The other side believes that life is to be lived.
I’m certain that I prefer the latter.
The weakest pro-abortion argument is:
“If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one”
Okay, how about”
If you don’t like car theft, don’t steal a car.
If you don’t like rape, then don’t rape someone.
If you don’t like assault, then don’t assault someone.
Applying pro-abortion logic, we shouldn’t have laws against theft, rape and assault.
The point about abortion is that it is an assault by one person (abortionist) against another (the fetus).
A woman cannot legally consent to let a doctor rape her 9 year old daughter–why can she consent to have a doctor tear the head off her 8.9 month old baby in a partial birth abortion?
The only way abortion is legitimate is if either:
1. A fetus is not human;
2. The mother is otherwise legally permitted to kill the fetus due to self-defense (the fetus will kill the mother if the mother does not kill the fetus first).
i don’t know why people are so confused. murder is illegal except in self defense. abortion takes a human life. period. it has nothing to do with the privacy or body of anyone else because you are taking a life.
it’s not even a religious thing. murder is illegal. period.
Abortion is a touchy topic. However I am pro-life and pro-choice. Allow me to explain. I believe if a person is raped, that person should have the right receive an abortion with out judgement. I also believe is a young girl decides to have unprotected sex with her young boyfriend, the face the consequences. you knew about birth control before you had sex, decided not to use it, so now you suffer. You can always give the baby up for adoption because there are thousands of women who would LOVE to adopt your child! Many women use abortion as a birth control and it’s disgusting. People abuse this power, and their should definitely be restrictions and regulations on the process. If you decide to go out in the rain, and choose not to take an umbrella, then you’re gonna get wet! You won’t send the dry cleaning bill to the Government would you??? People need to start taking responsibility for their actions, and stop looking to the Government for answers and hand outs. There are many woman in this country who have had over 13 abortions! That’s murder! And people like that should be arrested. What happened to morals? Ethics? We all deserve freedom, but in order to leave peacefully in a free society, we need to establish rules!
Dear congressman,
Abortion is a fragile issue. I happen to be one who rides the fence on this issue due to my christian beliefs. I feel that it is not a federal issue as you said but, I am happy with where roe vs. Wade stands. For the simple concideration to odd exeptions. Rape for instance. As a doctor you know what kind of mental damage can be done to the human brain after a dramatic and horrible incedent like this should occur. If that girl is not only violated but then suffers the damage of knowing she’s going to be forced to bear the child of someone who could have quite possibly destroyed this persons life. Does not deserve or should not be forced to bear that child. But I also believe that if you make the choice to concent to sexual activities without taking the precautions of knowing what could happen. It is absolutally absurd to be allowed to have an abortion. So I wanted to know how you feel about odd instances like this? Having a baby is a gift but We must alse adress the fact that religion is flawed, because humans are flawed. No one is perfect that is why our country has given us the freedom to choose between right and wrong.
Well i have too say i support every womens right too have an abortion but i can strongly identify with Ron on his position.
After having delivered 4000 babies, i think i might feel the same.And i know i would not be able to be the doctor responsible for performing an abortion.
But i like that he still says the fed. gov. should stay the hell out of this matter.
My vote for Paul in 2012
Jonathan,
So when is taking someone’s life the enshrined right of another?
Somebody, and you know who, thinks they can play a little trick on me. Well, “If you don’t believe there is a God, then you better hope you’re right”.
To epilp88,
I’m so glad you put into words what I couldn’t. And I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m glad I’m not bad mouthing in this post. Thank you
Evolution is forgetting that medical records can be obtained by law enforcement anyway IF there is probable cause and a warrant.
But even worse, evolution used the argument that a fetus isn’t “viable” and therefore not alive. By that definition, it’s not murder to end the life of a severely mentally handicapped person. A 2 week old baby is not viable either – it is 100% dependent on others for food, shelter, protection, etc. Is it not murder to walk into a nursery and shoot every baby under a certain age? If a mother kills her newborn, is it “anti-woman” to prosecute her? What about the elderly, confined to nursing homes? Wouldn’t it be more efficient to just shoot them and toss them in a dumpster? Think of the financial burden they are to the “living.”
Darwinian evolutionists often have a hard time with Natural Rights, especially Life, because they regard humans as little more than chemical conglomerates. Sadly, I’ve known too many that actually believe in euthanizing the elderly and extending women’s rights to allow “abortion” of a 1 year old baby.
I’m not anti-science, but even if we are just random chemical swirls
we still have basic Human Rights.
Bravo.
evolution,
I could make no sense out of your scrambled eggs and Baconian theory.
You must have taken some letters and threw them all in the air and see what would land on a piece of paper, because what you wrote didn’t come from a thinking mind.
Evidence for evolution? It is simple. DNA testing and the Human Genome Project. We share 98% of genetic material with chimps and 90% with a mouse. Random Mutation? We don’t know if its random or not, but we know mutation occurs. That’s all that matters. Natural Selection and survival of the fittest? Can be proved by simple observations and the Baconian method.
“Which side of your family did you descend from a monkey?”
“I would not be ashamed of having a monkey as an ancestor, only one who is too blind to see the truth.”
Wilberforce-Huxley exchange at the 1860 Oxford Evolution Debate.
Life isn’t life until it shows brain activity. You aren’t dead until you have no brain activity. Calling abortion a genocide is an anti-feminist, anti-woman falsehood. It does not even come close to the definition in the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. It can’t be murder because its not alive until it is viable. The law that says a fetus is a separate entity from its mother is nonsense? If its a separate entity why not separate them? What if conjoined twins tried to be surgically separated and one of them died? Is that murder? If Roe versus Wade was overturned, it would be a huge blow to privacy rights, because it would be impossible to enforce without violating medical privacy. Also, abortion would not be stopped because there are already laws on the books in liberal states such as Mass. and CA. that make abortion legal. So all you would make someone do is move, or travel. You’d be eliminating it only in the Bible Belt. You’d need an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, with 15 states that certainly would not ratify it, it would not become law and there is no way you’d get 2/3rd of both houses to vote aye.
The DNA evidence you referred to is purely circumstantial. It only points to elemental construction in nature. Just as all molecular compounds are made from the same list of atomic elements, and some compounds can be grouped in families based on the fact that they share elements or properties. The same commonality is found in zoology. DNA evidence proves that chimps and homo sapiens are related biologically and part of the same zoological family, but it does not point to a direct, genealogical, historical lineage. Such a conclusion is speculative, not scientific.
“Life isn’t life until it shows brain activity.”
So “evolution”, by your own assertion, I suppose we can label you lifeless? I know–low blow..sorry. But, in truth, I have limited capacity for fairplay with those who promulgate a culture of death. By the bye, my hypocritical friend, you are not viable stark naked at the north pole. Further, I think it’s thoroughly PRO-FEMINIST to label abortion by it’s right name–genocide–as half of the 3500+ daily abortions in the US result in a dead FEMALE.
Keep drumming up propaganda to force-feed to our nation’s youth–afterall, that’s the only way to keep your tax-funded abortion mills churning.
To evolution: Can you tell me when brain activity begins in a fetus?
“EMERGENCY SPREAD THIS VIDEO LIKE WILD FIRE….
EMERGENCY SPREAD THIS VIDEO LIKE WILD FIRE….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSV7jVOjIwQ
“EMERGENCY SPREAD THIS VIDEO LIKE WILD FIRE….
EMERGENCY SPREAD THIS VIDEO LIKE WILD FIRE….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSV7jVOjIwQ
I am a child of the ’60’s. We wore our floppy hippy hats and tried to look real hip in tie-died anything. Being against anything was your motto. “Bring Troops Home”, “War Is Not Healthy For Children And Other Living Things”, and on it goes.
We are in a war now here at home that beats all Hitlers and others like him.
The American Abortion Haulacaust is a silent “happening” right here on our soil. If I were called to reinlist in this army, then it would be an honor.
“The care of human life and happiness and not their destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government.” — Thomas Jefferson.
Abortion is not in the interest of good government simply because it is the termination of human life rather than the care thereof.
Wow, so much to think about…
Mathematics and physics have always posed the biggest threat to disproving the theory of evolution.
One Way,
Please respond with time and date that I called anyone a “fool”. And if calling anyone a fool is worse than committing infanticide, then I am surely guilty. Hang me from the gallows then let me burn, as the aborted children are burned like so much rubbish.
Recent AOL Poll
Human beings evolved from simpler life forms over the course of millions of years, but God played no part in the process.
807 (41.9%)
Human beings evolved from simpler life forms over the course of millions of years, but God guided the process.
634 (32.9%)
God created the Earth and human life in its present form in six days, within the last 10,000 years.
485 (25.2%)
Long Shot Louie,
I think I read all your posts. Thanks for the EVIDENCE. It’s the evidence that demands a verdict, as the writer Josh McDowell said.
>
Opinion polls over the past two decades have found the American public deeply divided in its beliefs about the origins and development of life on earth. Surveys are fairly consistent in their estimates of how many Americans believe in evolution or creationism.
Approximately 40%-50% of the public accepts a biblical creationist account of the origins of life, while comparable or slightly larger numbers accept the idea that humans evolved over time. The wording of survey questions generally makes little systematic difference in this division of opinion, and there has been little change in the percentage of the public who reject the idea of evolution.
Benito Mussolini, the Italian Fascist dictator, was also captivated by Darwin and Nietzsche; and Neitzsche said he got his ideas from Darwin. Mussolini believed that violence is basic to social transformation.
Adolf Hitler was chancellor of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. He carefully studied the writings of Darwin and Nietzsche. Hitler’s book, Mein Kampf, was based on evolutionary theory. The very title of the book, “My Struggle”, was copied from a Darwinian expression. Hitler believed he was fulfilling evolutionary objectives by eliminating “undesirable individuals and inferior races” in order to produce Germany’s “Master Race”.
Notice that the “master race” people always select the race they are in as the best one.
Does that hold for Zionists as well?
Lenin was an ardent evolutionist who, in 1918, violently overthrew the Russian government and founded the Soviet Union.
According to Yaroslavsky, a close friend of his, at an early age, while attending a Christian Orthodox school, Stalin began to read Darwin and became an atheist.
Karl Marx is closely linked with Darwinism. That which Darwin did to biology, Marx with the help of others did to society. All the worst political philosophies of the 20th century emerged from the dark cave of Darwinism. Marx was thrilled when he read Origin of the Species; and he immediately wrote Darwin and asked to dedicate his own major work, Das Kapital, to him. Darwin, in his reply, thanked him but said it would be best not to do so.
Engels, the co-founder of world communism with Marx and Lenin, wrote to Karl Marx in 1859: “Darwin, whom I am just now reading, is splendid”.
In 1861, Marx wrote to Engels: “Darwin’s book is very important and serves me as a basis in natural selection for the class struggle in history”.
In 1866, Marx wrote to Frederick Engels, that Origin of the Species contained the basis in natural history for their political and economic system for an atheist world.
At Marx’s funeral, Engles said that, as Darwin had discovered the law of organic evolution in natural history, so Marx had discovered the law of evolution in human history.
As Darwin emphasized competitive survival as the key to advancement, so communism focused on the value of labor rather than the laborer. Like Darwin, Marx thought he had discovered the law of development. He saw history in stages, as the Darwinists saw geological strata and successive forms of life.
more than 95percent of the scientific community believes in evolution and there is actual science to back it up.
I actually see Darwinism Closely linked with capitalism (with the exception of imperialism) Capitalism has a strong emphasis on competing to survive and evolving and changing to best all those thriving around you.Exactly like darwinism, ever heard of the saying “survival of the fittest”
I don’t think that linking capitalism to Darwinian evolution is that simple. One of capitalism’s core principles is protection of investment, or personal property rights and that principle is distinctly Judeo-Christian, and does not exist in a Darwinian framework. You are correct that capitalism does utilize a bit of the survival-of-the-fittest prinicple, but not unfettered. The unfettered application of surivial-of-the-fittest to capitalism would ulitmately destroy capitalism.
And, as for scientific evidence for Darwinian evolution, survival-of-the-fittest is not a sufficient explanation for the evolutionary changes that Darwinian theories propose. (An example is the malaria virus’ ability to overcome Chloroquine but not sickle cell disease)
There is a limit to what survival-of-the-fittest can produce and it rarely, if ever, produces cumulative progress.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” – Mark Twain
Darwinism doesn’t really talk about personal property, your’e right because the animals he was studying simply cant comprehend ownership.
Because I know so little about darwinism I cant really argue on that, but you were relating judeo-christian morals with capitalism. They could not be farther away from each other in terms of philosophy.
Christians=Greed is bad
Capitalism=Greed is good
Christians=submit to god
capitalism=submit to no one
Christians=care for the weak
Capitalism=care for yourself
Not saying that they dont have some similarities but they are hardly similar. Maybe capitalism gets the best of both worlds
“No single answer is ever the right answer” South Park
Maybe we should move our discussion over to the economics post!
I don’t think you are correct about your assessment of capitalism. I’m not going to say that capitalism is the best Christian expression of economics, but the influences are interesting. I think you are injecting marxist and evolutionary views into capitalism and making it something that it historically has not been.
Capitalism and Christianity:
Greed is not good, but expected
(In capitalism greed is best countered at an individual rather than collective level.)
Capitalism and Christianity:
Responsibility to the weak
(Capitalism relies on a symbiotic relationship between the owner and the worker. Contrary to Marxist froth, most owners appreciate their workers and vice-versa (I am a worker btw))
Capitalism is an economic system in which wealth, and the means of producing wealth, are privately owned and controlled rather than state owned and controlled. (wikipedia.org)
Is South Park’s answer the right answer.
Maybe greed was the wrong word.(im still on my Ayn Rand binge so thinking the word greed is good is expected.)
I’m just saying that christianity(at least new testament) isnt really that comparable to capitalism.Sure they have the same ideals of justice and personal responsibility. But didnt jesus himself preach being a simple man. And that we must give “charity” to those below us. In a laizze a fair capitalist world there would be no welfare(not saying thats a bad thing) wich is basically the governments idea as a mass charity. And in capitalism its impossible to maintain a simple life like some amish guy.
I am an atheist that believes in capitalism so that is why i’m trying to keep these two worlds seperate.
And yes south parks answer kind of contradicts itself but it has a good point.
Many philosiphys get part of one answer, all it takes is a little combining to get something special.
“In a laizze a fair capitalist world there would be no welfare.” How is that true? Of course, the government would not be handing out welfare (since true capitalism has not government), but that does not mean charity would not exist. The idea of capitalism is freedom. That includes the freedom to give your money away.
The problem you are having (trying to separate Christianity from Capitalism) is the same as Ayn Rand’s. Capitalism (and Objectivism for Ayn Rand) relies on that universal objective Truth. However, at the same time, Ayn Rand, and you as an atheist, seek to deny the existence of God, saying that that Truth ends in Man. Man’s Reason is the highest Truth. The problem is that if Reason (and Truth) is universal and objective, then it must be higher than Man, dictating all of life. This is the very definition of God: the ruler over all things. So, by submitting to Capitalism and Rand’s Objectivism, you cannot Reasonably reject the existence of God. I think C.S. Lewis explains it quite well in Mere Christianity if you want to check it out. At the very least you could attempt to prove him wrong.
Darwin was so frail in health that he did not make public appearances, but remained secluded in the mansion he inherited.
After taking part in the witchcraft ceremonies, not only was his mind affected but his body also. He developed a chronic and incapacitating illness, and went to his death under a depression he could not shake.
He frequently commented in private letters that he recognized that there was no evidence for his theory, and that it could destroy the morality of the human race.
“Long before the reader has arrived at this part of my work, a crowd of difficulties will have occurred to him. Some of them are so serious that to this day I can hardly reflect on them without in some degree becoming staggered.”
“Often a cold shudder has run through me, and I have asked myself whether I may have not devoted myself to a phantasy.”
It is of interest that, after engaging in spiritism, certain men in history have been seized with a deep hatred of God and have then been guided to devise evil teachings, that have destroyed large numbers of people, while others have engaged in warfare which have annihilated millions.
In connection with this, we think of such known spiritists as Sigmund Freud and Adolf Hitler.
It is not commonly known that Charles Darwin, while a naturalist aboard the Beagle, was initiated into witchcraft in South America by nationals. During horseback travels into the interior, he took part in their ceremonies and, as a result, something happened to him. Upon his return to England, although his health was strangely weakened, he spent the rest of his life working on theories to destroy faith in the Creator.