The heated debate about abortion is filled with emotional arguments that usually center on considerations such as sexual morality, religious beliefs, women’s rights, or purely on pragmatic reasons: if abortion were made illegal it would still take place – under unsanitary conditions that would endanger additional lives.
However, a rational evaluation of abortion must be built upon one single question: When exactly does human life begin? At conception, at birth or somewhere in between?
Not even the most radical feminist would find it okay to tear apart a recently-born baby just because it is not wanted by its mother. All other considerations aside, the only reason many individuals can support abortion with a good conscience is because they believe it’s not murder… and that unborn babies do not count as human beings.
Ron Paul has delivered more than 4,000 babies. He believes that human life starts at conception, and that casual elimination of the unborn leads to a careless attitude towards all life.
Recalling his personal observation of a late-term abortion performed by one of his instructors during his medical residency, Ron Paul stated, “It was pretty dramatic for me to see a two-and-a-half-pound baby taken out crying and breathing and put in a bucket.”
In an Oct. 27, 1999 speech to Congress, Ron Paul said:
“I am strongly pro-life. I think one of the most disastrous rulings of this century was Roe versus Wade. I do believe in the slippery slope theory. I believe that if people are careless and casual about life at the beginning of life, we will be careless and casual about life at the end. Abortion leads to euthanasia. I believe that.”
During a May 15, 2007, appearance on the Fox News talk show Hannity and Colmes, Ron Paul argued that his pro-life position was consistent with his libertarian values, asking, “If you can’t protect life then how can you protect liberty?” Additionally, Ron Paul said that since he believes libertarians support non-aggression, libertarians should oppose abortion because abortion is “an act of aggression” against a fetus.
At the GOP Values Voter Presidential Debate on Sep 17, 2007, Ron Paul was asked what he will do to restore legal protection to the unborn:
“As an O.B. doctor of thirty years, and having delivered 4,000 babies, I can assure you life begins at conception. I am legally responsible for the unborn, no matter what I do, so there’s a legal life there. The unborn has inheritance rights, and if there’s an injury or a killing, there is a legal entity. There is no doubt about it.”
At the GOP YouTube debate in St. Petersburg, Florida, on Nov 28, 2007, Ron Paul was asked what a woman would be charged with if abortion becomes illegal and she obtains an abortion anyway:
“The first thing we have to do is get the federal government out of it. We don’t need a federal abortion police. That’s the last thing that we need. There has to be a criminal penalty for the person that’s committing that crime. And I think that is the abortionist. As for the punishment, I don’t think that should be up to the president to decide.”
For many years, Ron Paul has been speaking up for babies’ rights. He passionately defends those who cannot speak for themselves because they haven’t been born yet.
In order to “offset the effects of Roe v. Wade”, Paul voted in favor of the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003. He has described partial birth abortion as a “barbaric procedure”.
At the same time, Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion.
Many people feel very strongly about the issue of abortion, and once they make up their minds they rarely change their opinion. If you are undecided and/or open-minded, check out this page and this site for more information about abortion, including images and a description of medical procedures.
3-8 Children in foster care have disproportionately high rates of physical, developmental, and mental health problems1,9 and often have many unmet medical and mental health care needs.
-American Academy of Pediatric
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Wouldn’t it be a better world if we gave the same hope, consideration and attention to children?
The following statistics were compiled from the American Pet Products Manufacturers Association (APPMA) 2007-2008 National Pet Owners Survey.
Dogs
* There are approximately 74.8 million owned dogs in the United States
* Thirty-nine percent of U.S. households own at least one dog
* Most owners (63 percent) own one dog
* Twenty-five percent of owners own two dogs
* Twelve percent of owners own three or more dogs
* On average, owners have almost two dogs (1.7)
* The proportion of male to female dogs is even
* Ten percent of owned dogs were adopted from an animal shelter
* On average, dog owners spent $219 on veterinary visits (vaccine, well visits) annually
* Seventy-five percent of owned dogs are spayed or neutered
Cats
* There are approximately 88.3 million owned cats in the United States
* Nearly 34 percent of U.S. households (or 38.4 million) own at least one cat
* Fifty-six percent of owners own more than one cat
* On average, owners have two cats (2.3)
* More female cats are owned than male cats (73 percent vs. 63 percent respectively)
* Eighteen percent of owned cats were adopted from an animal shelter
* Cat owners spent an average of $175 on routine veterinary visits
* Eighty-seven percent of owned cats are spayed or neutered
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6-8 million cats and dogs enter animal shelters every year and 3-4 million of those are put to death. 71% of cats and 56% of dogs nver make it out of a shelter.
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That is truly sad. All the more reason that they need to be spayed/nutured.
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Men and women should be spayed/nutured and then reversed when needed.
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Everyone has to live with their decisions. Your conscience is or should be, your guide.
I don’t hate the sinner, I hate the sin.
We are all responsible for our actions. Who we answer depends on your belief system.
I answer to my God and try to do the right thing. I am not perfect, no one is. I am forgiven. That knowledge helps sustain me. It also, hopefully reminds me, to remain humble. Again, I am not perfect, but I am reminded by The Holy Spirit when I am about to say, do or act in a way that is contrary to what God’s reflection is.
Conception is a metamorphoses. Christianity, faith.. Ever changing, hard to explain, but it happens.
The cocoon turning into a butterfly, the fingerprint of God. Evolution could not have designed such a complex, well designed, creature, it was by design with the dna programmed from the beginning. Just like us.
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I can only go by what I feel in my heart and my spirit are truth. My experience as well.
I got pregnant when I was 15 years old. I was 4 months pregnant when I found out I was pregnant.
The doctor told me he knew a doctor who would preform an abortion.
This was in 1970. My knowledge on abortions was extremely limited. I only knew that it was killing a baby. Not any particulars.
When he told me this, it scared me so bad and I was so horrified that a doctor who is suppose to save lives could suggest I kill a life, I got up and ran out of his office, crying.
I was already traumatized by the fact that I was pregnant. I thought I was a good girl and did not realize that what I did could produce life. I was naive and I guess, ignorant.
I was forced by my family to give my baby up when he was born.
I wanted to keep him. It went against everything I believed in, to give up my flesh and blood.
But instinctively, I also knew, that I could NEVER kill this baby.
He is my Moses. I prayed that God would keep his angels around my son and that he would protect them and keep his heart in his care.
I always kept the adoption agency informed of where I was so that one day, if my son wanted to find me, he could. I was hoping that one day he would give me the chance to tell him what happened and to know that I did what I did out of Love for him. It tore my heart out to let him go. Not one day went by that I didn’t think about him or pray for him.
25 years later, he found me. He Loves God, He Loves me, his brothers, his family and He Loves his adoptive parents.
He thanked me for giving him life. We stay in constant communication and see each other as often as we can.
He knows his brothers. His brothers have known about him from the time they could talk.
I am blessed. I know it doesn’t always work out this way.
It is my story and I wanted them and him, to know from me.
I have friends who have had abortions.
One girl in particular had 3 before she was 19. The last time I saw her, she was pregnant again.
She told me she had to abort the baby because her father was the commander in chief of a huge military base here and she didn’t want him to find out she was pregnant.
I told her that she could give the baby up so he could have a chance in life. The baby did not ask for this or to be conceived. Give the baby a chance to live.
She came to me a few days later and said she had a horrible nightmare that her unborn baby was crying to her “mommy, mommy, please don’t kill me!”
She was crying when she told me this. I stated “how can you then?”
Isn’t this your answer? She went through with the abortion anyway.
I don’t condemn her. I just am sad that her heart was so hard that she could do this.
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First, thank you for sharing that was a personal story and nice of you to actually bring it to the discussion. That said, I am glad in your experience your child lucked into a positive household that allowed him to grow into a well adjusted individual.
I suppose we have seen 2 different sides of the story, I have seen women get abortions and rarely have I ever seen or heard of it being a whimsical decision, brought on lightly. Regardless of that issue there are millions of children around the world with no homes or families. Prevention is the best option in dealing with the problem, and is definitely more agreeable (if for nothing else because of the health risks to mother) than abortion.
Again the God portion of the arguement I will not touch because I am not a believer in the sense that I think it makes a formation of a logical argument for the entire society. But I will not that while you chose not to have an abortion, and you find the thought appalling that others do have them, you do associate with those who have them. You do understand their decisions while not supporting them. In a sense you I think you support the general ideal that people can make decisions for themselves, but you do not want to support those decisions which you don’t believe. An example is you wouldn’t want your tax dollars used to support government abortions.
PS I was trying to say that abortion is rarely a first resort to birth control. Some people don’t think and therefore it becomes their first and only option, but I don’t feel that the general mass of population says, “I don’t need to use condoms, BC pills, an IUD, ect. because I’ll just get an abortion.”
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It is a terrible thing to contemplate no matter how you got there.
My heart just breaks for these little souls.
They feel every bit of that proceedure. It tears my heart out to think of it.
My son’s girlfriend just had a baby 8 months ago.
She is early twenties.
Her family tried to get her to abort. The day they were going to sneak her off, my son discerned something was going on.
He went over and made a stand. I was so proud of him. It’s his child too. He basicaly said if you don’t want the baby, give him to me, I will raise him/her.
They were not happy and announced they were going to probably go ahead with it.
He then stated, if you do, his blood is on your hands, not mine.
Thank God the mother, whom I have grown to Love, delivered my beautiful, precious little baby boy, grandson.
He is such a joy and everytime I look at his body parts, I am so glad they are all in tact and I look forward to every moment I get to babysit him! What a precious soul he is.
And yes, I tell him that he is a blessing from God every time I see him. I pray over him and ask God to guard his soul and spirit and protect him. Just like I did my son whom I did not get to raise.
God is good.
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So, there you have it. Amalek 101 in a NUT shell!
This battle is not flesh and blood. It is a spiritual battle. Whether you believe or not makes no difference except where you will be spending eternity.
That’s your decision.
If your right, no problem. If you’re wrong, well, “that’s the rest of the story”
I know this much, our country is being dismantled. I am not going to be diverted with this bs anymore.
There are bigger and more important issues, other than conversing with you or others like you who come here to rant and rave. I am going to fight for my country, just as my family has fought for yours to express your bs. Blood has been shed in more ways than one for you and for me!
For the record, if I do not acknowledge you doesn’t mean you won. I just don’t want to cast my pearls before the swine.
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It’s good to know that we still have Christian-like people.
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Yes, Saul…aka “child hacker” and that no weapon formed against us, shall prosper.
I have found that when you resist satan, he will flee…he can’t stand to hear “the blood of Jesus”
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Awesome religion in a political debate…
Personally, I am pro-Choice, but I support RP’s position that it should not be supported through tax dollars (a big issue with governement HC) and should be a state issue. Roe vs Wade should have toughted that the states cannot penalize a doctor or mother for carrying out an abortion when deemed that the mother’s health was in danger in accordance with state guidelines on what health is. It was legislation from the bench and was too broad in its effect.
My main reason for being Pro-Choice, besides being more of a theologist/agnostic than religious/atheist, is that I have seen the fun life of people that go through foster care, adoption processes, and orphanges. The self esteem issues associated with having no family and feeling abandoned are life long and many people are devastated by it. While abortion rarely is a form of birth control (I have never seen someone take the decision lightly like you would pills), its merit as a decision should not be discounted. I have a severe problem with the idea a woman could abort the child and a father could not stop it from happening if he wanted the child, but the reverse is not true.
Personally, I don’t believe that anyone should consider themselves Pro-Life on the subject unless they have adopted children. At that point you have taken personal responsibility to give those unwanted children a home and therefore I believe have a much stronger ability to say that Pro-Life is a better option. Saying people should not have the option, but then not doing anything to help those without a home seems very contradictory and short-sited of the ripple effects to leaving a child alone in the world.
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Abortion is rarely a form of birth control?
??????????
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I don’t agree that abortion is “rarely” a form of birth control. I say this from life experiences as a woman, human, nurse.
I cannot tell you how many times while I have lived on this planet, I have known or observed females, getting abortions.
The main reasons for many?
I don’t want my figure ruined, I don’t want to be strapped down, I have my education to think of, I can’t afford it, I don’t want my husband to find out I had an affair, I’m not ready, I’m not done having fun yet and on and on.
Rarely, I can count on two fingers have I seen where it was going to cause the death of the mother or baby if she didn’t abort or from rape. That’s my personal experience and knowledge.
Do I say that there are not alot of medically necessary abortions? No, absolutely not. Do I say there are not alot of rapes resulting in pregnancy? Absolutely not.
However, it ends up being resolved between the female and her family and or physician.
I have known females who were raped and decided to give the baby life. Some kept the child, some gave them up. But the point is, they gave them a chance to live. It was not the baby’s fault it was created. So why should the baby pay for something that was not it’s doing?
What a messed up world we live in. I can’t wait to go to heaven and love all those precious little aborted babys who are waiting for their family!
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Well I bet George Carlin, if he could, would tell you if it’s bs, now.
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“Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there’s an INVISIBLE MAN…LIVING IN THE SKY…who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever ’til the end of time…but he loves you.” – George Carlin
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Invisible? Perhaps you are blind as Saul was. He was alot like you and those who think and act like you. You or I cannot behold His Glory! Until we stand before Him, face to face.
Until then, why don’t you ask him to reveal himself to you?
Perhaps it will be an experience like Saul/Paul had on the road to Demascus.
First Reading: Acts of the Apostles 22:3-16
“I am a Jew, born at Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamali-el, educated according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as you all are this day. I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison both men and women, as the high priest and the whole council of elders bear me witness. From them I received letters to the brethren, and I journeyed to Damascus to take those also who were there and bring them in bonds to Jerusalem to be punished.
“As I made my journey and drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from heaven suddenly shone about me. And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?’ And I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And He said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you are persecuting.’ Now those who were with me saw the light but did not hear the voice of the One who was speaking to me. And I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Rise, and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do.’ And when I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and came into Damascus.
“And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing by me said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And in that very hour I received my sight and saw him. And he said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know His will, to see the Just One and to hear a voice from His mouth; for you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
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For all we know, god could be Zeus or Krishna. What if the Muslim god was the true god? Can’t there be more than one god? It seems like every race has one of their own. What if each race was created by different entities?
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Whatever you perceive in your mind to be true, will be true to you.
Whether it is fact, is another question.
I know for a fact, Jesus is The Son of The Living God. He came here as a sin offering for you and for me and the rest of the world. It is a free gift for those who will accept it no matter what you have done.
It’s “free choice” and pro life.
No one is putting a gun to your head and telling or asking you to accept it. Free will. You have no one to answer to but Him when you stand face to face with Him.
Then, you will know, TRUTH.
Faith.
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There are historical documents on these other people as well as Jesus. Can they both not be fact?
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Only Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be The Son.
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longshotlouie replies:
August 13th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Only Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be The Son.
Correct.
Jesus went on, however: “But who do you say that I am?” (Matthew 16.15). Peter’s answer was: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matthew 16.16), that is to say, “The people say you are a prophet but I say you are far more than a prophet, you are the Son of God”. The response of Jesus has acute relevance to the very subject we are discussing:
“Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven”. Matthew 16.17
“My Father has revealed this to you”, was his reply. The realization that he was the Son of God came not through ordinary “flesh and blood”, that is, human wisdom and perceptiveness, but by a direct revelation from heaven. It was also a proof that Jesus was not one of the children of God in a metaphorical sense but the Divine Son who could only be known by a revelation from the Father himself.
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Not true, there are lots of holy births and “son’s of god.” Judaism claims that Jesus is not one of them.
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Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, and Mithra were all born of a virgin and all but one were born on Dec 25th and resurrected after they died.
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Child Hacker compares Masonic mythology to the known Jesus of Nazareth?
Horus was the son of Isis and Osiris. He was a myth. Jesus of Nazareth was a person. He existed. Therein lies the biggest difference. As for the date December 25? It’s a falsehood. No one knows the date of birth for Horus, and since it’s a myth, it seems pretty silly for someone to claim his birthday was December 25th, don’t you think? By the way, at the time of Horus and the other myths, we didn’t have a December 25th. That date came about when the Georgian calendar was created, after the birth of Christ.
Do you meet Christians that still believe that 12/25 is the actual day of His birth?
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Okay. Walking on water, healing the sick, turning water into wine, and resurrecting from the dead don’t sound like mythological characteristics to you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KVoYJ5YSzM&feature=related
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First off, who’s “our” “we?”
Not “ME”
Yes, many don’t give a damn about life. That’s what this discussion is about. Yes, many only give a damn about power and control.
And being on top of the world reminds me of when satan “tried” to tempt Jesus, (by the way, satan used God’s word, out of context, just as all unbelievers do, against Christians) to the mountain top and told him he could have all that he saw if he bowed down and worshiped satan.
The Temptation of Jesus
1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[a]”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
” ‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[b]”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[c]”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[d]”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
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Another reason you who hate God will never get it.
You refuse to read His Word. You refuse to acknowledge that there is “satan” yet when convenient you use “Gods Word” by changing scripture to fit your needs or agenda.
So what is it? You deny him but use His Word to argue.
If he doesn’t exist, you can’t justify your actions.
But then the father of all lies, satan used God’s words against him as well. Kind of like radicals do.
I have to remind myself constantly, when I listen to you folks:
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
What’s that tell you?
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It tells me that our people don’t give a damn about life, but only about power. Maybe that is why we support war. Maybe that is why we enjoy being on top of the world while others suffer from our behalf.
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God- “Now go and attack Amalek and utterly destroy all they have and do not spare them. Kill both man and women, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”(1 Sam. 15:3)
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And God knew Saul wouldn’t. Which is why we now have terrorist, islam extremist killing us! I doubt you will read this but if you want facts relating to this, here it is.
Remember, you are using God’s Word to make a point. I am utilizing His Word, to clear up your confusion and attacks.
You want the truth or are you just talking to be talking?
Inthe Bible, Amalek is the anti-Israel.
Starting in Genesis, Amalek comes into the world as the grandson of Esau – Esau, Abraham’s grandson, Isaac’s son, and Jacob’s dangerous brother, Esau.
Esau is the man who thought so little of God’s blessing that he traded it for a pot of soup! His illegitimate but direct descendant Amalek bred and multiplied and became a family and then a nation: a jealous, cruel nation.
In the course of more than 100 generations, Amalek spread, like a virus. It shared its seed with every nation.
The theory of this blog piece is that, historically, not merely as metaphor but in a very real sense, Amalek exists as an infectious spirit: a contagious infestation of fierce jealousy, envy, injured pride and ultra-violence.
God created Israel as a force for holiness: Amalek is Israel’s opposite. Amalek is Israel’s destroyer.
Nazi Germany incarnated Amalek. From 1933 until May, 1945, Amalek ruled Germany. The German people became Amalek.
This is not to say that every single German in that time period became evil. Not at all: the Germans themselves suffered from the Nazis. Some Germans hated the Nazis and everything they stood for. Some Germans were good, even saintly people. But it’s still fair to say that, in that time period, the German people accepted Nazism. In other words, the spirit of Amalek infected the German people.
The Nazis infected the Arab world with the Amalek virus, and the same virus has now spread to much of the Muslim world. Again, some Arabs today and some Muslims today despise this evil, just as there were Germans who lived under Hitler and the swastika who hated Nazism. But it’s still fair to say that the spirit of Amalek infects the Arab world and that the spirit of Amalek infects Islam. And now Amalek – as the Nazis did – threatens the world.
Amalek hates Israel and all whom it associates with Israel. Amalek hates America.
Amalek is furiously jealous. Amalek attacked America and “the Jews” on 9/11. Amalek infects and has become Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda and Fatah and Hamas. Amalek cannot be appeased. Amalek threatens the world like the Nazis – the Muslim and Arab Amalekites’ recent predecessors – menaced the world.
Exodus 17:16: The Lord hath sworn, the Lord will have war with Amalek in every generation (from generation to generation).
Israel is commanded to “blot out the memory of Amalek.”
The spirit of Amalek operates as the antithesis of and greatest hindrance to the manifestation of the reign of God in the world.
‘When will the name of these [Amalekites] be blotted out?’ asks the Midrash, the ancient rabbinic commentary on the Book of Exodus. ‘When idolatry is eradicated together with its worshippers, and God is recognized throughtout the world as One, and His kingdom is established for all eternity.’ (Midrash, Mechilta on Exodus, chapter 17)
In Deuteronomy 25, God commands Israel: Remember what Amalek did to you, on the way, when you were leaving Egypt: that he happened upon you on the way, and he struck those of you who were hindmost, all the weaklings at your rear, when you were faint and exhausted, and he did not fear G’d. . . You shall wipe out the memory of Amalek from under the heavens – you shall not forget! (Deuteronomy 25:17-19)
Amalek appears in every generation. Not every evil character and not every enemy of Israel is Amalek. The Babylonians who destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem weren’t Amalek, for instance. Neither were the Romans who destroyed the Second Temple. But the Edomites who called out to the Babylonians to “destroy, destroy” (as the Bible’s Writings record) were Amalek; the Nazis were Amalek, and the Arabs and Muslims who live jealous of Israel, who pray to a Jew-hating Allah, who furiously envy Israel: they are infected with the spirit of Amalek.
Al-Qaeda and the vicious terrorists who carried out the attacks on America “and on the Jews” on 9/11 are Amalek. By attacking America they hurt Jews and by attacking Jews they hurt America, they think.
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I thought all life was sacred, even chickens.
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Guess Nero-bamas spiritual counseler/teacher was somewhat prophetic……those Amalek chickens did come home to roost!
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So do you think its okay that we are killing Al-Qaeda and all the afghan people because they are present day Amalek? “man and women, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” The innocent must die too i guess..
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Abortion: The Ultimate Child Abuse
Many of those who support abortion would fight to save an animals life first ie; PETA. It’s a shame we don’t see them utilizing their energy and resources to save a fellow human being.
There is no argument here. Hateful ones would argue “they are fetuses” That’s just another new age term for baby which leads to the fact below:
2 Timothy 3:1-5:
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
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Many of those who are against abortion support killing animals. Why? Because they have no purpose in life or is that their purpose? You might as well kill off all the mentally challenged people and all the freeloaders while we’re at it.
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You need to go back and read your response. I truly believe that there is an element missing from your dna that stops you from using common sense. This is why we are not suppose to argue with you. You are blind. You are deaf and I will leave the last part of that, alone.
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Common sense? Oh ya.. It is common sense to kill all mammals but humans. Oh wait, we shouldn’t kill lions or elephants or kangaroos, but we should kill cows, bears, and chickens. If selective killing is common sense, than our common knowledge has been tainted.
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Nope. All God’s creatures are sacred which is why he brought them two by two to the Ark.
Typical, you take a portion of a statement and try to turn it around.
All life is sacred. ALL LIFE. LIFE. I have made it as easy and clear to understand.
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Didn’t noah live to be 500 hundred years old? Typical bible crap.
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It’s a shame we can’t abort the crazy Christians who believe the nonsense in that contradictory bible of theirs. Apparently God couldn’t stop contradicting his own thoughts on what is right and wrong. Some deity he is. The guy can’t even cure an amputee, even though the bible clearly says that your prayers will be answered. Either he’s impotent, which explains why he can’t show his face, or email his message directly into our minds or write it in the clouds or something that would make his message clear to all of us. No, this numbskull has to pass his message along, get this, by telling just one person, and hoping that person not only gets it right, but spreads it around from person to person. Jeez, isn’t that about the dumbest way to get your super important message to everyone? He must have gotten a C- minus in Deity College. He’s the George Bush of Gods imo. We can do better.
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So, why aren’t you showing your face?
You see, typical double standards and hypocrisy.
I have seen many miracles from The Lord.
I have also had some prayers not come to pass.
If you have a child and he wants something from you, even though to that child it is imperative they have it now, if there is a reason you cannot give that child what they are asking for, at that moment, or even at all, doesn’t mean you don’t love your child.
It means that you have your reasons which the child cannot comprehend because the child is only seeing the need on their level.
If what the child is asking for may cause future repercussions, you would have to weigh that out as a responsible parent.
The problem here is, you don’t believe in God and therefore you will never understand a thing about him. You refuse to.
It’s not about religion, it’s about a “personal relationship” with Him. Until you experience that, you can’t understand it.
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When does life begin?
Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”
Supporters of abortion can and will vehemently try to justify their diabolical beliefs. But one thing you cannot change,
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
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Isaiah 45: 7
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
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You just confirmed what so many like you and who have come before you confirm:
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
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God gave us all of these qualities.
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When he formed us in the womb, he gave us the knowledge of good and evil.
What YOU, I, we, do with it, is the distinction.
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“So says the Lord: ‘Behold, I frame evil against you and divise against you…’”(Jer 18:11)
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Those who have bloodied their hands will pay. Most likely not in this life time. Most of them do not believe in the hereafter because it is not convenient to their beliefs or agenda. What they fail to realize is, if it is true, that there is an after life, (and there is) Woe, Woe, Woe, to you who have murdered and butchered or even supported this heinous act!
These precious, precious little ones, my heart aches, my tears ache for the innocent ones. The only consolation is that they are and forever will be, In the tender care of The Heavenly Father!
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”
God said, I believe it, it is settled.
“At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become
as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.”
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A quibble I have with Ron Paul. I think he is the most honest politician in the country, probably among the most credible among all politicians in our history. However, I caught him saying something that impugned his credibility with me. It was dishonest, and it bugs me. I’ll still vote for the guy and believe in him, but he did hurt his credibility when he was asked if he believed in evolution and he sidestepped it and said something like ‘well, it is only a theory after all.’ I expect that from ignorant Christians, but not from scientifically trained persons like Dr. Paul. Anyone that has any knowledge of science and the scientific method knows that a theory, in scientific vernacular, is more than just a guess. It’s a model or explanation that encompasses all the facts. Evolution is both fact and theory, and for a doctor to shrug his shoulders and say, “it’s just a theory” is disingenuous. He’s either ignorant or dishonest, and neither of those possibilities comfort me.
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God kills 30,000 children everyday from hunger. Children who pray to him every day. If they don’t have the right to live, than why would any child.
Why god is evil..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pge7GvFKSnk
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…
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God has given us free will- we are responsible for the deaths of these children due to our indifference. We are a society of convenience, immediate gratification, and self centeredness. (I know that spelling is wrong, sorry). We prefer cheap labor and cheap prices. “save more, live better” Walmart. We can put it off on God because that is easier, isn’t it? So hard to examine ourselves and institute change…. ps yes I am as guilty as the next guy and apply this to myself. I am a work in progress.
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Wow, that’s one angry childhacker.
Seems to be blaming the sins of man on God!?!
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If god didn’t want abortion, than he wouldn’t have made it. He is standing side by side with the bible thumper’s holding their rifles. God is destructive; he feeds off of war.
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Idiot!
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“The fetus, given the opportunity to develop properly before birth, and given the essential early socializing experiences and sufficient nourishing food during the crucial early years after birth, will ultimately develop into a human being.”
- John P. Holdren
‘Human Ecology’ – page 235
John P. Holdren is advisor to President Barack Obama for Science and Technology, Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, and Co-Chair of the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology
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[...] unwillingness to provide straight answers to questions regarding the public funding of abortion in their plan. He also argues that a mandatory nationalized healthcare system would harm medical [...]
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[...] unwillingness to provide straight answers to questions regarding the public funding of abortion in their plan. He also argues that a mandatory nationalized healthcare system would harm medical [...]
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US Senator Howell Heflin (D-Ala.) coined the statement,” Speaking as a former fetus, I am vehemently opposed to abortion.” A not only humorous but profound statement. For if a human does not respect the development of human life and acknowledge not only the need but also the responsibility to protect this development , then how can that person regard human life in itself as having value? The very term conception means “the beginning of a specific process or chain of events.” This being the case, then one cannot logically argue that conception is not the beginning of life. One would be relativizing a concrete term devised and used historically to define a specific event… the beginning of life. Would one be silly enough to say that the term death does not define the end of life? Or the start of a race is not the same as the beginning of a race? If one said that life starts at birth, then, where at birth? When the head comes out, when the body comes out? When the baby first breathes, cries, moves? Or life starts when the baby is viable… when is that? When one begins nursing, eating solid food, finding one’s own food? Truly, there is only one event, one exact moment of time that can absolutely define the beginning of life… conception.
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YouTube yanks another vid
http://www.abortionno.org/
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I sat by and allowed my girlfriend (15 years ago) to have two abortions. At the time, having kids was an inconvenience and adoption from her point of view was not an option.
Life is such a miracle and while I have forgiveness through the Lord, the pain is still palpable. Those that argue for abortion rights are darkened in their reasoning. They are either ignorant, deceived or evil. There really is no middle ground.
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Awe..so sorry Geoff. You will see them again and they will be waiting for you with open arms.
The Love you will experience then, you can experience now. Faith. If we knew now, what we will know then, when we come face to face with the Father, we would not suffer so much.
Joy cometh in the morning.
We have so many promises from God and so much forgiveness.
That is the Hope we have. We have that promise. If we ask for forgiveness, He is faithful and true to forgive.
Children are a gift from God. They are waiting for their daddy.
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“Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of. So that Roe was going to be then set up for Medicaid funding for abortion. Which some people felt would risk coercing women into having abortions when they didn’t really want them.”
- Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Read again, slowly
’nuff said
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Abortion is an issue that demonstrates how far human beings have yet to evolve, both socially and biologically. The cultural roots of abortion run deep. In ancient Carthage child sacrifice was very popular–especially in times of famine. A family ended up with one less mouth to feed, and the gods were appeased. This attitude turned the Romans’ stomachs.
Today, our country follows Carthage, not Rome. We just take the child’s life before birth and spout pseudoscientific babble as justification.
When will people stop placing labels that dehumanize classes of human beings, such as using the word “fetus” instead of “baby”? How many historical examples of the debasement of the language for the purpose of assuaging guilt over the extermination of a class of human beings can you think of?
The life of every animal begins at conception, for that is when the unique genetic code for that animal comes into existence. After that moment, there is no one moment at which a human may be said to naturally gain value. When will we stop claiming that classes of human beings do not possess value as human beings, thereby justifying their destruction?
The idea that God places a soul into a fetus at some state of development thereby making it fully human is positively medieval. Valid concepts are related to reality, and “God” and “soul” are not related to anything anyone can experience. How long will “god” be used to justify societal horrors?
How long will we justify the killing of those who cannot speak for themselves, the weak or the inconvenient? Every motive for abortion is also a motive for murder. Let us evolve to care for all individuals. When a woman becomes pregnant, married or not, we should celebrate her step in the great experiment of life. It should be a time of joy, just as it is a time to acknowledge great personal responsibility.
At the same time, if we are not yet ready to evolve beyond our primitive notions of human value, this issue should not dissuade us from other valid goals, like limiting the power of the federal government. Government power IS the power to point guns. (If you do not pay your taxes, someone from the government will eventually come to your house wearing a gun and will force you to jail.) Those who value life must also value limited government.
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Agree 100%
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S. Aldrich:
The idea that Ron Paul will not get elected because of his
“strong pro-life stance” is absolutely asinine. I have only
heard one time his mentioning a “strong pro-life stance”; I
imagine because he is up to his ears in all the bullshit he
is dealing with in Washington D.C. I do not see how he is
able to juggle all the issues coming up out of the cesspool
we call Washington D.C., and still have any resemblance of
life or sanity.
As an anarchist, I completely support Ron Paul, even though
at this point I do not trust any form of government whatsoever.
He has a complete diversity of people behind him; many with
whom I do not agree with. But we have to set aside ALL differences and defeat the “hydra” we are up against. I am
sick and tired of hearing people in this “Camp” engaging in
in-house fighting over “differences” of opinion. If I can
set aside my differences, then everyone else beside me better
get their shit together before we are all consumed by the
establishment!
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See the video that was spiked by youtube.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2995936/planned_parenthood_falsely_says_abortion_pictures_are_not_real/
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S Aldrich: to suggest that the issue of abortion should be left to women & their doctors is tantamount to suggesting the issue of slavery be left to plantation owners and their tobacco merchants. In both cases, you have the suppression of someone’s life at the discretion of another.
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I agree with Ron Paul on almost all issues, except abortion. I agree that abortion should not be a birth-control tool, and I disagree with late-term abortion, but I think the issue of abortion is up to women and their doctors, and therefore I am pro-choice. This issue should be kept out of politics! Sadly, Ron Paul’s strong “Pro-life” stance will keep him from getting elected.
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In consideration of the hostility our politicians have towards their own country, I don’t consider abortion a major issue.
However, I think Roe v. Wade is probably the best decision regarding a no-win issue, 1st trimester abortion being between a woman and her doctor and restrictions thereafter. Because to me abortion comes down to a religious issue and an individual’s personal religious view of where life begins even though my personal belief says abortion is almost never acceptable.
Once a pregnancy enters 2nd trimester, she has implied she will carry the pregnancy through by failing to get an abortion earlier and I couldn’t care less about her perception she’s entitled to abort beyond 13 weeks. This is unacceptable in almost all instances if it’s even acceptable to begin with.
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You are correct that we have so many other issues that we have to deal with. However, the reason Abortion is such a huge issue is that it is a matter of one of our basic liberties outlined in the Declaration of Independence. If we cannot decide to protect Life then what is the point of discussing any other issue?
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Do you care that your mother didn’t abort you? I bet you’d be pretty damn mad if you were killed before you had a chance to live a life. Stupid idiot
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Extermination of life is a religious issue, only?
So confusing, hmmmm, one side says that terminating unwanted life is just. The other side believes that life is to be lived.
I’m certain that I prefer the latter.
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The weakest pro-abortion argument is:
“If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one”
Okay, how about”
If you don’t like car theft, don’t steal a car.
If you don’t like rape, then don’t rape someone.
If you don’t like assault, then don’t assault someone.
Applying pro-abortion logic, we shouldn’t have laws against theft, rape and assault.
The point about abortion is that it is an assault by one person (abortionist) against another (the fetus).
A woman cannot legally consent to let a doctor rape her 9 year old daughter–why can she consent to have a doctor tear the head off her 8.9 month old baby in a partial birth abortion?
The only way abortion is legitimate is if either:
1. A fetus is not human;
2. The mother is otherwise legally permitted to kill the fetus due to self-defense (the fetus will kill the mother if the mother does not kill the fetus first).
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i don’t know why people are so confused. murder is illegal except in self defense. abortion takes a human life. period. it has nothing to do with the privacy or body of anyone else because you are taking a life.
it’s not even a religious thing. murder is illegal. period.
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Abortion is a touchy topic. However I am pro-life and pro-choice. Allow me to explain. I believe if a person is raped, that person should have the right receive an abortion with out judgement. I also believe is a young girl decides to have unprotected sex with her young boyfriend, the face the consequences. you knew about birth control before you had sex, decided not to use it, so now you suffer. You can always give the baby up for adoption because there are thousands of women who would LOVE to adopt your child! Many women use abortion as a birth control and it’s disgusting. People abuse this power, and their should definitely be restrictions and regulations on the process. If you decide to go out in the rain, and choose not to take an umbrella, then you’re gonna get wet! You won’t send the dry cleaning bill to the Government would you??? People need to start taking responsibility for their actions, and stop looking to the Government for answers and hand outs. There are many woman in this country who have had over 13 abortions! That’s murder! And people like that should be arrested. What happened to morals? Ethics? We all deserve freedom, but in order to leave peacefully in a free society, we need to establish rules!
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Dear congressman,
Abortion is a fragile issue. I happen to be one who rides the fence on this issue due to my christian beliefs. I feel that it is not a federal issue as you said but, I am happy with where roe vs. Wade stands. For the simple concideration to odd exeptions. Rape for instance. As a doctor you know what kind of mental damage can be done to the human brain after a dramatic and horrible incedent like this should occur. If that girl is not only violated but then suffers the damage of knowing she’s going to be forced to bear the child of someone who could have quite possibly destroyed this persons life. Does not deserve or should not be forced to bear that child. But I also believe that if you make the choice to concent to sexual activities without taking the precautions of knowing what could happen. It is absolutally absurd to be allowed to have an abortion. So I wanted to know how you feel about odd instances like this? Having a baby is a gift but We must alse adress the fact that religion is flawed, because humans are flawed. No one is perfect that is why our country has given us the freedom to choose between right and wrong.
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Well i have too say i support every womens right too have an abortion but i can strongly identify with Ron on his position.
After having delivered 4000 babies, i think i might feel the same.And i know i would not be able to be the doctor responsible for performing an abortion.
But i like that he still says the fed. gov. should stay the hell out of this matter.
My vote for Paul in 2012
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Jonathan,
So when is taking someone’s life the enshrined right of another?
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Somebody, and you know who, thinks they can play a little trick on me. Well, “If you don’t believe there is a God, then you better hope you’re right”.
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To epilp88,
I’m so glad you put into words what I couldn’t. And I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m glad I’m not bad mouthing in this post. Thank you
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Evolution is forgetting that medical records can be obtained by law enforcement anyway IF there is probable cause and a warrant.
But even worse, evolution used the argument that a fetus isn’t “viable” and therefore not alive. By that definition, it’s not murder to end the life of a severely mentally handicapped person. A 2 week old baby is not viable either – it is 100% dependent on others for food, shelter, protection, etc. Is it not murder to walk into a nursery and shoot every baby under a certain age? If a mother kills her newborn, is it “anti-woman” to prosecute her? What about the elderly, confined to nursing homes? Wouldn’t it be more efficient to just shoot them and toss them in a dumpster? Think of the financial burden they are to the “living.”
Darwinian evolutionists often have a hard time with Natural Rights, especially Life, because they regard humans as little more than chemical conglomerates. Sadly, I’ve known too many that actually believe in euthanizing the elderly and extending women’s rights to allow “abortion” of a 1 year old baby.
I’m not anti-science, but even if we are just random chemical swirls
we still have basic Human Rights.
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Bravo.
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evolution,
I could make no sense out of your scrambled eggs and Baconian theory.
You must have taken some letters and threw them all in the air and see what would land on a piece of paper, because what you wrote didn’t come from a thinking mind.
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Evidence for evolution? It is simple. DNA testing and the Human Genome Project. We share 98% of genetic material with chimps and 90% with a mouse. Random Mutation? We don’t know if its random or not, but we know mutation occurs. That’s all that matters. Natural Selection and survival of the fittest? Can be proved by simple observations and the Baconian method.
“Which side of your family did you descend from a monkey?”
“I would not be ashamed of having a monkey as an ancestor, only one who is too blind to see the truth.”
Wilberforce-Huxley exchange at the 1860 Oxford Evolution Debate.
Life isn’t life until it shows brain activity. You aren’t dead until you have no brain activity. Calling abortion a genocide is an anti-feminist, anti-woman falsehood. It does not even come close to the definition in the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. It can’t be murder because its not alive until it is viable. The law that says a fetus is a separate entity from its mother is nonsense? If its a separate entity why not separate them? What if conjoined twins tried to be surgically separated and one of them died? Is that murder? If Roe versus Wade was overturned, it would be a huge blow to privacy rights, because it would be impossible to enforce without violating medical privacy. Also, abortion would not be stopped because there are already laws on the books in liberal states such as Mass. and CA. that make abortion legal. So all you would make someone do is move, or travel. You’d be eliminating it only in the Bible Belt. You’d need an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, with 15 states that certainly would not ratify it, it would not become law and there is no way you’d get 2/3rd of both houses to vote aye.
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The DNA evidence you referred to is purely circumstantial. It only points to elemental construction in nature. Just as all molecular compounds are made from the same list of atomic elements, and some compounds can be grouped in families based on the fact that they share elements or properties. The same commonality is found in zoology. DNA evidence proves that chimps and homo sapiens are related biologically and part of the same zoological family, but it does not point to a direct, genealogical, historical lineage. Such a conclusion is speculative, not scientific.
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“Life isn’t life until it shows brain activity.”
So “evolution”, by your own assertion, I suppose we can label you lifeless? I know–low blow..sorry. But, in truth, I have limited capacity for fairplay with those who promulgate a culture of death. By the bye, my hypocritical friend, you are not viable stark naked at the north pole. Further, I think it’s thoroughly PRO-FEMINIST to label abortion by it’s right name–genocide–as half of the 3500+ daily abortions in the US result in a dead FEMALE.
Keep drumming up propaganda to force-feed to our nation’s youth–afterall, that’s the only way to keep your tax-funded abortion mills churning.
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To evolution: Can you tell me when brain activity begins in a fetus?
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“EMERGENCY SPREAD THIS VIDEO LIKE WILD FIRE….
EMERGENCY SPREAD THIS VIDEO LIKE WILD FIRE….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSV7jVOjIwQ
“EMERGENCY SPREAD THIS VIDEO LIKE WILD FIRE….
EMERGENCY SPREAD THIS VIDEO LIKE WILD FIRE….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSV7jVOjIwQ
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I am a child of the ’60′s. We wore our floppy hippy hats and tried to look real hip in tie-died anything. Being against anything was your motto. “Bring Troops Home”, “War Is Not Healthy For Children And Other Living Things”, and on it goes.
We are in a war now here at home that beats all Hitlers and others like him.
The American Abortion Haulacaust is a silent “happening” right here on our soil. If I were called to reinlist in this army, then it would be an honor.
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“The care of human life and happiness and not their destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government.” — Thomas Jefferson.
Abortion is not in the interest of good government simply because it is the termination of human life rather than the care thereof.
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Wow, so much to think about…
Mathematics and physics have always posed the biggest threat to disproving the theory of evolution.
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One Way,
Please respond with time and date that I called anyone a “fool”. And if calling anyone a fool is worse than committing infanticide, then I am surely guilty. Hang me from the gallows then let me burn, as the aborted children are burned like so much rubbish.
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Recent AOL Poll
Human beings evolved from simpler life forms over the course of millions of years, but God played no part in the process.
807 (41.9%)
Human beings evolved from simpler life forms over the course of millions of years, but God guided the process.
634 (32.9%)
God created the Earth and human life in its present form in six days, within the last 10,000 years.
485 (25.2%)
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Long Shot Louie,
I think I read all your posts. Thanks for the EVIDENCE. It’s the evidence that demands a verdict, as the writer Josh McDowell said.
>
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Opinion polls over the past two decades have found the American public deeply divided in its beliefs about the origins and development of life on earth. Surveys are fairly consistent in their estimates of how many Americans believe in evolution or creationism.
Approximately 40%-50% of the public accepts a biblical creationist account of the origins of life, while comparable or slightly larger numbers accept the idea that humans evolved over time. The wording of survey questions generally makes little systematic difference in this division of opinion, and there has been little change in the percentage of the public who reject the idea of evolution.
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Benito Mussolini, the Italian Fascist dictator, was also captivated by Darwin and Nietzsche; and Neitzsche said he got his ideas from Darwin. Mussolini believed that violence is basic to social transformation.
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Adolf Hitler was chancellor of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. He carefully studied the writings of Darwin and Nietzsche. Hitler’s book, Mein Kampf, was based on evolutionary theory. The very title of the book, “My Struggle”, was copied from a Darwinian expression. Hitler believed he was fulfilling evolutionary objectives by eliminating “undesirable individuals and inferior races” in order to produce Germany’s “Master Race”.
Notice that the “master race” people always select the race they are in as the best one.
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Does that hold for Zionists as well?
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Lenin was an ardent evolutionist who, in 1918, violently overthrew the Russian government and founded the Soviet Union.
According to Yaroslavsky, a close friend of his, at an early age, while attending a Christian Orthodox school, Stalin began to read Darwin and became an atheist.
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Karl Marx is closely linked with Darwinism. That which Darwin did to biology, Marx with the help of others did to society. All the worst political philosophies of the 20th century emerged from the dark cave of Darwinism. Marx was thrilled when he read Origin of the Species; and he immediately wrote Darwin and asked to dedicate his own major work, Das Kapital, to him. Darwin, in his reply, thanked him but said it would be best not to do so.
Engels, the co-founder of world communism with Marx and Lenin, wrote to Karl Marx in 1859: “Darwin, whom I am just now reading, is splendid”.
In 1861, Marx wrote to Engels: “Darwin’s book is very important and serves me as a basis in natural selection for the class struggle in history”.
In 1866, Marx wrote to Frederick Engels, that Origin of the Species contained the basis in natural history for their political and economic system for an atheist world.
At Marx’s funeral, Engles said that, as Darwin had discovered the law of organic evolution in natural history, so Marx had discovered the law of evolution in human history.
As Darwin emphasized competitive survival as the key to advancement, so communism focused on the value of labor rather than the laborer. Like Darwin, Marx thought he had discovered the law of development. He saw history in stages, as the Darwinists saw geological strata and successive forms of life.
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more than 95percent of the scientific community believes in evolution and there is actual science to back it up.
I actually see Darwinism Closely linked with capitalism (with the exception of imperialism) Capitalism has a strong emphasis on competing to survive and evolving and changing to best all those thriving around you.Exactly like darwinism, ever heard of the saying “survival of the fittest”
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I don’t think that linking capitalism to Darwinian evolution is that simple. One of capitalism’s core principles is protection of investment, or personal property rights and that principle is distinctly Judeo-Christian, and does not exist in a Darwinian framework. You are correct that capitalism does utilize a bit of the survival-of-the-fittest prinicple, but not unfettered. The unfettered application of surivial-of-the-fittest to capitalism would ulitmately destroy capitalism.
And, as for scientific evidence for Darwinian evolution, survival-of-the-fittest is not a sufficient explanation for the evolutionary changes that Darwinian theories propose. (An example is the malaria virus’ ability to overcome Chloroquine but not sickle cell disease)
There is a limit to what survival-of-the-fittest can produce and it rarely, if ever, produces cumulative progress.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” – Mark Twain
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Darwinism doesn’t really talk about personal property, your’e right because the animals he was studying simply cant comprehend ownership.
Because I know so little about darwinism I cant really argue on that, but you were relating judeo-christian morals with capitalism. They could not be farther away from each other in terms of philosophy.
Christians=Greed is bad
Capitalism=Greed is good
Christians=submit to god
capitalism=submit to no one
Christians=care for the weak
Capitalism=care for yourself
Not saying that they dont have some similarities but they are hardly similar. Maybe capitalism gets the best of both worlds
“No single answer is ever the right answer” South Park
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Maybe we should move our discussion over to the economics post!
I don’t think you are correct about your assessment of capitalism. I’m not going to say that capitalism is the best Christian expression of economics, but the influences are interesting. I think you are injecting marxist and evolutionary views into capitalism and making it something that it historically has not been.
Capitalism and Christianity:
Greed is not good, but expected
(In capitalism greed is best countered at an individual rather than collective level.)
Capitalism and Christianity:
Responsibility to the weak
(Capitalism relies on a symbiotic relationship between the owner and the worker. Contrary to Marxist froth, most owners appreciate their workers and vice-versa (I am a worker btw))
Capitalism is an economic system in which wealth, and the means of producing wealth, are privately owned and controlled rather than state owned and controlled. (wikipedia.org)
Is South Park’s answer the right answer.
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Maybe greed was the wrong word.(im still on my Ayn Rand binge so thinking the word greed is good is expected.)
I’m just saying that christianity(at least new testament) isnt really that comparable to capitalism.Sure they have the same ideals of justice and personal responsibility. But didnt jesus himself preach being a simple man. And that we must give “charity” to those below us. In a laizze a fair capitalist world there would be no welfare(not saying thats a bad thing) wich is basically the governments idea as a mass charity. And in capitalism its impossible to maintain a simple life like some amish guy.
I am an atheist that believes in capitalism so that is why i’m trying to keep these two worlds seperate.
And yes south parks answer kind of contradicts itself but it has a good point.
Many philosiphys get part of one answer, all it takes is a little combining to get something special.
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“In a laizze a fair capitalist world there would be no welfare.” How is that true? Of course, the government would not be handing out welfare (since true capitalism has not government), but that does not mean charity would not exist. The idea of capitalism is freedom. That includes the freedom to give your money away.
The problem you are having (trying to separate Christianity from Capitalism) is the same as Ayn Rand’s. Capitalism (and Objectivism for Ayn Rand) relies on that universal objective Truth. However, at the same time, Ayn Rand, and you as an atheist, seek to deny the existence of God, saying that that Truth ends in Man. Man’s Reason is the highest Truth. The problem is that if Reason (and Truth) is universal and objective, then it must be higher than Man, dictating all of life. This is the very definition of God: the ruler over all things. So, by submitting to Capitalism and Rand’s Objectivism, you cannot Reasonably reject the existence of God. I think C.S. Lewis explains it quite well in Mere Christianity if you want to check it out. At the very least you could attempt to prove him wrong.
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Darwin was so frail in health that he did not make public appearances, but remained secluded in the mansion he inherited.
After taking part in the witchcraft ceremonies, not only was his mind affected but his body also. He developed a chronic and incapacitating illness, and went to his death under a depression he could not shake.
He frequently commented in private letters that he recognized that there was no evidence for his theory, and that it could destroy the morality of the human race.
“Long before the reader has arrived at this part of my work, a crowd of difficulties will have occurred to him. Some of them are so serious that to this day I can hardly reflect on them without in some degree becoming staggered.”
“Often a cold shudder has run through me, and I have asked myself whether I may have not devoted myself to a phantasy.”
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It is of interest that, after engaging in spiritism, certain men in history have been seized with a deep hatred of God and have then been guided to devise evil teachings, that have destroyed large numbers of people, while others have engaged in warfare which have annihilated millions.
In connection with this, we think of such known spiritists as Sigmund Freud and Adolf Hitler.
It is not commonly known that Charles Darwin, while a naturalist aboard the Beagle, was initiated into witchcraft in South America by nationals. During horseback travels into the interior, he took part in their ceremonies and, as a result, something happened to him. Upon his return to England, although his health was strangely weakened, he spent the rest of his life working on theories to destroy faith in the Creator.
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