The heated debate about abortion is filled with emotional arguments that usually center on considerations such as sexual morality, religious beliefs, women’s rights, or purely on pragmatic reasons: if abortion were made illegal it would still take place – under unsanitary conditions that would endanger additional lives.
However, a rational evaluation of abortion must be built upon one single question: When exactly does human life begin? At conception, at birth or somewhere in between?
Not even the most radical feminist would find it okay to tear apart a recently-born baby just because it is not wanted by its mother. All other considerations aside, the only reason many individuals can support abortion with a good conscience is because they believe it’s not murder… and that unborn babies do not count as human beings.
Ron Paul has delivered more than 4,000 babies. He believes that human life starts at conception, and that casual elimination of the unborn leads to a careless attitude towards all life.
Recalling his personal observation of a late-term abortion performed by one of his instructors during his medical residency, Ron Paul stated, “It was pretty dramatic for me to see a two-and-a-half-pound baby taken out crying and breathing and put in a bucket.”
In an Oct. 27, 1999 speech to Congress, Ron Paul said:
“I am strongly pro-life. I think one of the most disastrous rulings of this century was Roe versus Wade. I do believe in the slippery slope theory. I believe that if people are careless and casual about life at the beginning of life, we will be careless and casual about life at the end. Abortion leads to euthanasia. I believe that.”
During a May 15, 2007, appearance on the Fox News talk show Hannity and Colmes, Ron Paul argued that his pro-life position was consistent with his libertarian values, asking, “If you can’t protect life then how can you protect liberty?” Additionally, Ron Paul said that since he believes libertarians support non-aggression, libertarians should oppose abortion because abortion is “an act of aggression” against a fetus.
At the GOP Values Voter Presidential Debate on Sep 17, 2007, Ron Paul was asked what he will do to restore legal protection to the unborn:
“As an O.B. doctor of thirty years, and having delivered 4,000 babies, I can assure you life begins at conception. I am legally responsible for the unborn, no matter what I do, so there’s a legal life there. The unborn has inheritance rights, and if there’s an injury or a killing, there is a legal entity. There is no doubt about it.”
At the GOP YouTube debate in St. Petersburg, Florida, on Nov 28, 2007, Ron Paul was asked what a woman would be charged with if abortion becomes illegal and she obtains an abortion anyway:
“The first thing we have to do is get the federal government out of it. We don’t need a federal abortion police. That’s the last thing that we need. There has to be a criminal penalty for the person that’s committing that crime. And I think that is the abortionist. As for the punishment, I don’t think that should be up to the president to decide.”
For many years, Ron Paul has been speaking up for babies’ rights. He passionately defends those who cannot speak for themselves because they haven’t been born yet.
In order to “offset the effects of Roe v. Wade”, Paul voted in favor of the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003. He has described partial birth abortion as a “barbaric procedure”.
At the same time, Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion.
Many people feel very strongly about the issue of abortion, and once they make up their minds they rarely change their opinion. If you are undecided and/or open-minded, check out this page and this site for more information about abortion, including images and a description of medical procedures.
You own you. You alone are responsible for your body and your actions. That’s the entire premise of the Libertarian party. I own me, and only I will decide what is right for me. The government should have no say in such a personal decision. If that’s too much freedom for some of you, perhaps this isn’t the correct party for you.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Like I said in my earlier post has come to light here, your religion is the the libertarian party. No party is good enough to own me sir, now let me explain I believe in values first if a canidate doesn’t believe in the right to life from the cradle to the grave, he doesn’t have the correct values, and therefore dosen’t deserve my vote. Your correct you own you, in your own mind your correct. When people break laws because they think they can lets say smoke pot because that doesn’t hurt anyone and then get in a car impaired and run over someone you are no longer your own your an inmate now sorry. You see things you do effect others thats why we even have rules in our personal relationships I could get very in depth here but I’m not. you need to think your ideas out further to see thier full implications.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m amazed that every time any issue is brought up during an election or just in casual conversation the religion card is played, like these religious nuts have to go and check the bible to make sure its ok to watch football on Sunday, How about everyone just start taking responsibility for their own actions and stop saying oh its gods will, You chose your own path. KEEP RELIGION OUT OF COMMON SENSE DECISION MAKING.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Thank you Dana
Religion nuts are the ones that started this war by violating the holiness of aviation safety. I know Ron Pauls abortion position and his profession as ob/gyn. I see anti abortion laws as contrary to Libertarian thinking. I will still vote for him as a man because of the imperative of reforming our monetary system to agree with what is written in the Constitution. I swear as a man by anybody’s god I will never personally have an abortion. Unless its (god forbid) medically needful to save my nonproductive organ. Fortunately people with strong morality support the sanctity of life and the Constitutions legal tender law. I just think women know better than Doctors, Governments or Religions. I voted for Hillary in the Ohio primary then supported McCain until he picked a anti abortion Jesus Nazi as his running mate. Never a word about legal tender and the federal reserves fraud. That’s why I voted for Obama and have no regrets yet. Had Sen McCain picked Ron Paul as his running mate I would have become a McCain/Paul campaign volunteer and relied on women like you to defend your God given duty and right to make life and death decisions for your children living ,dying, unborn and even those yet to be conceived. Male dominators of all species hate that concept.
I grant the Pope infallibility(some man has to do it) to make restitution and reparations to me as a sex abuse victim first then we will talk about other issues once he gets it right. I stand ready to assist him to get it right if they will only listen to a victim. My late Air Force mom that raised me in honky tonks as a Navy orphan, Mother Teresa would love her. They share the same death date. It’s typical Catholic “Religious” hypocrisy that people who abhor abortion rights are eager to abort souls for defending a womans natural God given authority. Love sister.
Ron Paul for President 2012 (but a Catholic Biden would tickle me too in 2016)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
dear sir,
The dictionary states and the supreme court backs up that religion means, a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, a “cultural system”. You see sir you fall under this same title and you are therefore a religous nut not worthy to be listened to, and void of any sense! I do not say this to anger you, But to make you think. See you have a world view, and I have a world view, (even though I used to have one like yours, but that is a story for another time)But you see I don’t tell you to shut up you have a right to come to the table and give your oppinion no matter how wrong it may be. You see I think you are more upset because your arguments don’t hold water under scrutiny and your scared so you throw this temper tantrum. I think you need to read the bible and argue with God, or prove it wrong!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
To all of you here that support making abortion illegal I have just one question:
HOW MANY UNWANTED CHILDREN HAVE YOU ADOPTED TODAY????
Unless you are willing to share the burden of thousands of unwanted children living in the streets, I suggest you rethink your position. You advocate that all life is precious, but how precious can it be for a child who is born out of wedlock, then abandoned because the mother can’t care for it? How utterly selfish you people are. Do you really think that the disgustingly sexually irresponsible society we live in today is going to change anytime soon? Do you realize that the numbers on welfare will rise dramatically if you ban abortion? JesusMaryandJoseph… the 1% of this country that controls 75% of our wealth is already screaming about “entitlement” and “freeloaders” and you want to add more? How about a reality check for you? You can cash it at the “recession” bank you helped to create.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Hey Mary,
Would you also advocate the murder of the unwanted children who are already born? Afterall, it seems you’re arguing from a position that their parents ought not to be bothered with the hassle of continuing to raise them (again..since they are unwanted). Howsabout we just snuff out all the unwanteds? One slight problem is that ALL of us would end up on that list somewhere or other. How far are you willing to extend your broken ideology (and still characterize it as a selfless position)? Btw, If you are the poster girl for altruism, I don’t want to ever meet the megalomaniacs of this world.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I have 1 adopted, We would have more if it wasn’t so expenseve to adopt. You see we “relgious fanatics” are the ones who adopt. We just don’t take the limelight or get reported in the papers, and we don’t want to be either. Why don’t we work on laws to make it less expenseve to adopt? What have you done for them, have you sent them any money, or do you expect the goverment to take care of the problem “abortion”? Hey I have an idea its called Abstinence, it’s been proven to be 100% effective, and kids need to learn that there are consequence to thier actions, but that would be to hard and we would have to get involved in our kids lives. You would probably still be inclined to have the government kill babies.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m a Navy divorce orphan. Secretly raised by wonderful Air force people. Only my AF moms grave let the secret raise from the dead. I’m also a catholic priests sex abuse victim. I cherish the Irish Catholic roots of my famous biological family from Wexford Ireland (not the Kennedys they used to pay us rent).
This issue is why you or John McCain are not President right now. It’s how he lost my vote (her!). I would have, could have, should have been aborted but for my mothers brave choice under military divorce duress to secretly hand me off at birth to the AF.
The reconciliation that the Navy allowed my father leave for was a failure but I’m here to tell you; the make up sex was great!
I have suffered all my adult life from the sex abuse by the priest. I had to leave US Army Chaplain school because of it’s DPTS after effect. The Catholic Bishops have obstructed justice on my behalf to this very day. They think they are God! So do Doctors and I expect a Ob/Gyn is as infallible as the Pope on the matter, but no one has shown me yet in all my life anyone is wiser than a mother when it comes to making life and death decisions for the child. Either living, dying, or yet to be born (even conceived). Women are the daughters of God and they know better than any religion, state, or doctor, what is the right life and death decision to make for their offspring. Only that principal can say to the Chinese communist government with absolute un-hypocritical authority “you shall honor the Mother” hands off of the womb to religion, state, and doctors. I am certain the daughters of God can defend themselves and their right and duty to make such decisions in spite of all the “God-Like Men” usurping to themselves nature herself. That’s why I will still vote for you. A vaginal compromise (where a Roman soldier keeps his sword “sheath” in Latin). The Legal Tender of the Constitution is direly more important issue right now. Liberty has to honor the woman’s authority to make those life and death decisions. Otherwise it’s a grand hypocrisy. Oh that the church would see the light of liberty. How that would anger the Chinese communist dragon and set those mothers free! Forced communist abortions can only be confronted by the sanctity of a Womans authority to make those life and death decisions for her children. “You shall honor the Mother, that it may be well with you, that you may be long lived upon the Earth”.
Sorry Doc, mother nature knows best. No man would question a gooses decision about which chicks to save. The bible touches on that too right rabbi? Catholic mothers have just as many to feed. Any objecting Catholics or other Jesus-hadis can show me my reparations and restitution’s first or shut up. That includes the infallible Peter. Honor my Mothers choice and make reparations for the sex abuse to my satisfaction. My unborn children testify against the religious hypocrites and tyrants. My little Irish Catholic Jewish (all that’s me) babies have yet to be conceived for famine of justice. Semper Pax America
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Iam sorry for what has happend to you I like you have been abused. Iam glad you are alive, God has given you this chance to forgive, not to hold a grudge and dememand you owe me. Besides they could never pay you enough anyway. Turn it over to God and forgive and true Justice is his. His Word never says to kill our children, infact he tells us to choose life!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I agree with most of what Ron Paul says. However, I do not agree that life begins at conception. My belief is that if the baby can not survive without the womb then it is not a person yet, when the baby comes out and is breathing on his or her own then that baby is a separate person. My question is what happened to accountability in this country, we have become fat and lazy and just want to sit and watch tv and play our video games and wonder what Paris Hilton is doing. There are circumstances where an abortion would be the right thing to do. If the pregnancy is due to a rape, incest, or if the situation is the mother will lose her life or the baby develops complications or will not have the quality of life every baby deserves. If the situation is two people just having sex and the woman gets pregnant, she should take the responsibility of that baby and have it and take care of it. I do have a question, why is it ok for the mother to decide she wants an abortion without having to talk to the father of the baby, he might want it, but if the father doesnt want the baby and the mother does he is forced to pay child support, doesnt make sense.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I do not believe you are a person either, if we take you out of your natural suroundings and stuck you in space you would not be able to survive therefore you must not be human. You see the mothers womb was desined by God to sustain a baby for 9 months. It does not matter what you our I think about it life begins at conception. God says I have knitted you together in your mothers womb. See the real problem is we care more about what we want instead of taking ownership for our actions(convienence!). You see sex leads to babies, birth control is not fail proof, abstinence is. If you think we should have the right to just have sex whenever we want without reprocusions youre wrong theres disease, unwanted pregnancies, broken hearts, just to name a few. To me your argument is a fail attempt to justify destroying a child in the name of convienence.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
If you treasure life, then why not show empathy towards all life?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
What in the world has happened to condoms? Are they not used anymore? If you don’t want a baby, use a condom. God said in His Holy Bible, “before you were in the womb, I knew you.” To me, that says it all. Girls and guys, save yourself (and health, possibly), by using condoms–several of them at a time if you think they’ll break, but PLEASE, stop this HOLOCAUST of killing babies. We, as simple humans, can’t understand when life begins, but we can KILL what we don’t want. I was asked by my psychiatrist recently if I was still greiving for my sister and dad, and I told her “I don’t know, but I know I grieve EVERYDAY for the untold millions of babies that have been killed”. I believe we in the United States and around the world are suffering BECAUSE we, in our own “special, superior” country, are guilty of a serious crime, and we are being judged, right now, for it. I don’t say “God bless America” anymore, I say, “God, forgive America for OUR HITLERIAN ATTITUDE of trying to silence this evil, menacing action”. The WOMB is no longer a safe haven for a child, but instead, a TOMB.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
There are too many people on this planet as it is. Furthermore, this world is so f*&%ed up, aborted babies are lucky in that they are spared from having to deal with the bs that is life.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
You sir are an imbecile. If you feel that way why dont YOU abort yourself.
THIS is the kind of ppl society is producing? Amazing.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Kurt, why don’t you spew your imbecillic rampage somewhere else? If you feel this way, ask God to give you compassion. I’d hate to meet up with people like you anywhere.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
dear Sir there is a joke when it comes to condoms, and it goes like this, What do you call a guy who uses a condom? A: Daddy. You need to read the packaging that comes with your condoms they are basicly useless. Why don’t you teach your kids to be pure till marriage their spouse will Love you for it. you will find that this follows the Bible, lets not try our own feel good way try Gods it works way better.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
lizzle: im agree with your last comment. good point.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
laura: im agree with oyur points of view. you are clear in your thinking.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
In order to assess when a fetus becomes a person, it seems that we need to figure out when it is endowed with humanity.
What separates humans from other animals? I think most would agree it’s the “higher functions” of the brain (language, abstract thought). To relate science to religion, the “higher functions” constitute the “soul”.
Where in our bodies do these “higher functions” occur? The cerebral cortex of the brain. When does the cerebral cortex begin to develop, therefore giving the fetus its humanity? At 8 weeks gestation. http://www.dana.org/news/brainhealth/detail.aspx?id=10050 It stands to reason, then, that prior to 8 weeks, an abortion is simply the killing of a living thing, not a murder.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Lizzle,
I must respectfully disagree with your definition of personhood.
First, it is self-defeating. You say that higher functions like language and abstract thought are the defining marks of personhood. But then you say that personhood begins at the earliest development of the cerebral cortex (8 weeks gestation). The problem with this reasoning is that the beginning of the development of the cerebral cortex does not constitute the beginning of these higher functions. Children do not develop capacities for language until months after birth, nor does abstract thought really begin until the preteen years. So what you are in effect saying is that it is not these higher functions that constitute personhood but rather the POTENTIAL for these higher functions (which you identify with the initial development of the cerebral cortex) that constitutes personhood. But it is evident that the 8-week mark is merely arbitrary, for from the moment of conception the potential for higher functions is present in the DNA of any human being. All that is lacking for an embryo to develop these higher functions (at the moment of conception AND at eight weeks gestation) is time and nourishment. The development of the cerebral cortex is just one more step along the path of normal human development. It does not fundamentally altar what the unborn person is.
Second, your definition of personhood is purely functional, which is a dangerous way to pursue the definition. What happens if an adult loses the capacity for language or abstract thought, either through Alzheimer’s disease or a brain injury? Has he lost his personhood and reverted to the status of “living thing”? I certainly hope that is not a conclusion you would draw. For this reason, I believe it is far better (and safer) to define personhood in ontological, not functional, categories.
Human beings are unique because they are God’s image-bearers. To be human is to bear the image of God. It is inescapable. And the image of God is not unique to our “higher functions.” It is stamped on everything that we are, as those placed in authority over God’s creation (Gen. 1:28; Psalm 8). This is why the taking of human life is so repugnant to God; it dishonors him by dishonoring those who bear his image. And that includes those in the womb who bear his image.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I suppose that all that is lacking for the rest of the animal kingdom to establish these higher functions is time and nourishment. Should we not protect them to?
Please reply with objective intellectual argumentation, and not the bible.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
YES, we should protect them also!!!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
yes we should protect them as our food source. remember PETA means people eating tasty animals! All Jokes aside sir I would not deprive you from your world view no matter how flawed I believe it to be. Therefore don’t rob me from mine, yours came from books and how you believe them to explain the world. I have the Book of Books and it tells me a different way to believe even from the way I used to believe,because I used to believe like you. and yes it tells us we are stewards of this planet. one way I see your theory is very flawed is there are are animals according to darwin that we all evolved from that you would still be destroying every bite of salad you took, every step you took, are these animals going to be protected to. What about plants are they living and therefore need some kind of protection to? Did you Know this kind of thing is happening I heard on the radio that the Swiss government is giving rights to plants! Gee those Bible fanatics sound alittle less screwey to me.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“It stands to reason, then, that prior to 8 weeks, an abortion is simply the killing of a living thing, not a murder.”
Well, I can only hope that my children never grow up to ‘reason’ like you. “Simply a living thing”????
Let me ask you something, in the history of mankind, has a woman ever given birth to anything but another human being?
I thought so, you’re dead wrong about it being just a “thing”.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I agree, totally. This inhumane treatment would make Hitler VERY HAPPY!– so he did win the war after all, huh????
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Dear lizzie,
Lets think for a second. If papa eaglae, and mama eagle had sex, layed an egg, and I by chance bieng out in the forest starving to death took that egg right after it was hatched, and ate it what would happen to me.
I would go to prison for killing an EAGLE! Why is this, it seems the very same year we were deciding when was a baby a baby in the supreme court, the supreme court was also deciding this same very case for eagles, and decided an eagle was eagle at conception.? So you see even though the supreme court gave women something to help them with thier Convenience factor,(like I have to go to a concert. yes it happend.)and passed the law of killing innocent life, it dosen’t make it right and all this arguing when life begins is nonsense, because life begins at conception. So stop trying to wiggle in some other time frame. Why don’t you just say I’d rather not have the baby and give your convenience of choice, oh but you would feel guilty and you should because it is the murder of innocent life.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
These flag waving issues scare the crap out of me.
Im not sure how I feel about this subject but tell me what you think about this…
Medically speaking a person is declared dead when there is no heart beat & no brain wave… ok… you know where im going with this…
Medically a fetus has a heart beat as early as a week and a brain wave around two weeks. I may be off but the logic is that we should have a definitive definition of when a person is alive and its only fair to use the conditions at which we declare some one dead.
Within this two week period women have the right to do what they feel is best for them. Rape/incest Victims, unplanned or early teenage pregnancy can be dealt with by qualified doctors. Combine this attitude with simple education to youth about the birds and the bees and counseling of the alternatives I believe there is a humane fair way to go about this.
Do we want our daughters seeking back ally abortions from rusty coat hangers? I dont mean to sensationalize the possibilities but there will be ramifications. I just cant imagine telling a women who has been raped, “well you gotta carry it or your a murderer” which of course carries a longer prison time than rape.
I believe that both sides are right, life is precious and freedom is precious.
Less chest beating & less bleeding hearts, more thinking to solve this problem.
sorry for the bad grammer
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
They already get the rusty coat hangers you need to check on how many girls are sterilized each year not to mention die did you know that in some states if your daughter went in for an abortion, and they left a part of the aborted baby inside and she went into toxic shock and died they would not take any responsibility and you would not be able to view the records ,and therefore not be able to press any civil charges. They do this all the time talk about back alley. If you don’t believe me check with your local life crisis pregnancy center they will be able to set you straight on the atrcities of planned parenthood.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Killing is killing. Any mother who would kill her own child will never make a good mother. or wife for that matter.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Not all life, in and of itself is sacred. A cow is not sacred unless you are Hindu. Point is anything that you eat (plant or animal) was at one time alive. A cancerous growth in your body is alive but is it sacred? It like a fetus is a growing life force– entity. Of course unlike a fetus it never will be a human being. All I mean is just because it is growing inside of a human body does not necessarily mean it is sacred, while in the body.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Good point. You can apply the word ‘sacred’ to most anything that you think is important to you — your favorite place, your beloved pet, your church, your religious belief,or people. The word ‘holy’ also has no pragmatic meaning, to me anyway. If all life is sacred, then plants and animals are also sacred. Anyway, the acorn on the ground is not the same as the lovely oak tree in my neighbor’s yard, it is only a potential tree, and we view the two differently. I do think that if one chooses to have an abortion, it should be done if possible, in the first trimester. After that it can be seen as a sad event, and hopefully an increasingly rare one. We need to work toward the goal of safe and effective contraception, affordable to everyone, everywhere.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I agree with you that all life, including plant and animal life is sacred; however, I do not agree with your acorn and oak tree analogy.
The acorn is not the child in the womb, but rather the unfertilized egg. Women discard eggs ever month because the eggs are not alive, as men often discard their sperm. When that acorn becomes embedded into the ground, is fertilized by nutrients and rain and begins to sprout roots, the acorn turns into a living and growing being. This is what conception is in relation to trees and acorns, not simply the acorn falling to the ground. I think that you need to reassess the situation before forming forming your opinion.
Your opinion “I do think that if one chooses to have an abortion, it should be done if possible, in the first trimester,” confuses me. What does this mean? If you believe a child is alive in the second trimester, why not in the first?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“When that acorn becomes embedded into the ground, is fertilized by nutrients and rain and begins to sprout roots”
Jordan,
You are using one word as two, fertilizing an egg is completely different from fertilizing an acorn.
The acorn is not the egg of the Oak it is the fertilized ovum of the female Oak flower. While I understand what you are trying to say, your time line is flawed since you are at two different times in the life of your chosen subjects while trying to state they are the same. Using your example the human baby would have to be born to be on an even scale with the “embedded acorn”. I am pretty sure that was not the place you wanted your anti-abortion argument to start. It is simple ignorance like this that causes others to dismiss your opinions as uneducated and uninformed.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
If I were aborted then I never would have never been born. This is a decision made by the parents or mother. We are totally different now than when we were born.
I agree with the mentally handicapped vs Einstein analogy– that we are all equal. I just differ as to when this equality begins, when human (being)life begins. We may not agree with you, as you are talking about some biological function and I am talking about when does this biological entity become human and have a soul. Science does not teach about the soul, and does not aim to do so. Religion and philosophy does.
My science side says that life begins at conception but my religious (spiritual/philosophical)side says it is at birth of body that the soul begins.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
you might find this interesting, pertaining your philosophical perspective.
http://health.discovery.com/centers/pregnancy/american-baby/alertness-in-the-womb.html
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I am not saying I do not care whether I live or die, referring to one of my previous comments– care whether or not I was aborted.
This is a non-sense question. If I had been aborted then I would not care. I would never have been born.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
E148: If you were aborted then you would be dead. However, I urge you to examine your spiritual side. That part would not be dead. The spirit lives forever. God created all men equal. That says that whether we are severely mentally handicapped or Albert Einstein we are all equal in God’s eyes. The sanctity of human life is of paramount importance in the moral framework of this country. Please examine your concious on this issue and you will come up with the right answer!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Ok. I neglected to mention: I am married with a soon-to-be 21 year old daughter. My Dad was adopted. He spent at least part of his adult life searching for his real parents. So I do speak from experience. I personally feel that half of my life is missing, so far as family history goes, and it is missing.
I know what killed my dad but not his parents or grandparents, etc.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Ok. For those that think that human life begins at conception because of DNA. Then you obviously think that the dust we all turn into is a human being as well, afterall it has the dna as well. But it is not a human being. It is dust– the essence of stars. A fertilized egg is no more a human being than the dust we turn into is. Obviously it has the potential to become a human being. Once a birth happens then try to do everything to save baby. By the way there is no such thing as unborn baby (or child). It becomes a baby at birth. Check your dictionary.
For those that think I am in college (in my 20s)you are far off. I am in my 50s. I have had 9+ years of college though, more than most doctors and lawyers. My IQ is higher than the average doctor or lawyer. I am NOT saying that I am smarter than Ron Paul just that I at least can come close.
Again, I generally support Ron Paul. This maybe the only thing which I disagree with him.
I am not for killing. I do not believe in war or in capital punishment only on the definition of human being and when this life becomes sacred.I mean would you call an egg a chicken? It is a chicken egg but not a chicken.
While I have not studied medicine, I have studied religion, philosophy, and ethics, as well as a lot of other subjects (Chemistry, Physics and Mathematics).
Also, I was in the US Coast Guard in the 70s, so I am former military, in case you wondering about my stance on war.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
E148: You sound pretty self centered and full of yourself. I have spent my whole life learning and hope to be a student all of my life. I too served in the military, when women started to become a greater number in the forces. I think I’m smart, too. I’ve taken so many classes and read so many books, that I think I can confer upon myself the doctorats of Law, Medicine, Philosophy, Divinity and so on. Of all my learning I have come upon the premise that I really know nothing. Except that God, in all His mercy, will have to reach far into His Own Heart to forgive those who kill innocent children.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
That is a stupid question. If I was aborted then I would not care. The question as to whether or not a “pro-lifer” is also a pro-capital punishment is not an absolute but the religious right generally supports both.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
E148: “If I was aborted then I wouldn’t care”. Then you are saying that you don’t care whether you are alive or dead. Right?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
This maybe the only thing I disagree with Dr. Ron Paul about. I do not believe human live begins at conception. A fertilized egg is not human. It obviously does have the potential to become human, but it is not human yet.
The slippery slope is a fallacy. It is one of the errors in logic. It is a reason one gives to discount someone’s premise, argument, or conclusion. To me to say that one believes in the slippery slope is to say that one believes in a fallacy. I can see where you can support abortion and still be against the death penalty. It usually is the other way around that those that support the ‘right to life’, also support to death penalty—capital punishment. How? I do not know. If you truly believe that all life is sacred then how can you kill someone? Capital punishment is state-sanctioned murder, not self-defense. The state (government) has no rights at all, individuals do.
If you want to quote the Bible on when life begins, “then the Lord breathed into his [Adam’s] nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.” Genesis 2:7
So life begins when you start to breathe air (through the nose), after you are born.
If nothing else if you believe that life begins at conception then you must believe yourselves 9 months older than you claim and all tombstones that give the start of life is also wrong. This would be then a lie and an abomination to the dead, or the memories of the dead.
This society is backward. They treat a non-human with so much respect and then treat them like garbage when they get old. We ought to get treated better as we age, not worse or at least the same.
From a practical point of view, in support of abortion there is the adoption angle. Adoption is assumed to be a good option to abortion but has problems that nobody seems to think about. Again, you are so myopic. You want the unborn to be born at all costs but there are costs that this birth of the unwanted child has later in their life. Besides the possible handicaps etc., and death of the mother during delivery there are some other problems, in no particular order.
1) The kid is either never told that he or she is adopted or they are told and spend some and maybe all of their adult life searching for their real parents and may feel abnormal all of their lives. They still sence a hole in their lives. This may end in despair and frustration for the unaborted child. You would want that thrust upon them as a life sentence (punishment) for just being born. If they are never told then they are living a lie. No matter what you may think a foster parent is not as good as a real parent, most of the time. Children bond better to their natural mother.
2) You know nothing of your family history. This includes what runs in your family, i.e., what diseases you may be susceptible.
3) Number 2 goes for the off-spring someone who was adopted. You know only ½ of your family history, at best, until the adopted one gets sick or dies, anyway. If both parents were adopted then you are back in the same boat again, as if you were adopted, so far as family history goes. Then you know ½ plus one person, of your family history. With each successive generation the family history becomes more and more known, unless someone else in the family was also adopted. Regardless, not knowing what your entire family history can lead to premature death. Again, this is not good for the child that was adopted and not good for the off-spring either.
Point is you worry too much about the unborn and not enough about those who are born and even less as they age.
To those that say that abortion may kill the next Einstein but the same could be said for maybe killing the next Hitler. Chances are it will be neither.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
E148: I’m not usually a negative person but your argument is pretty sorry. With regard to capital punishment, you assume that anti-abortion people are pro-death penalty. That is a dumb assumption. Besides, do you know of any babies that have ever committed 1st degree murder? It’s a totally different issue. The bottom line is to ask yourself E148, would you like to have been aborted? I know of no one that can honestly answer that with a yes. Can you?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Good letter. There are so many reasons for keeping abortion legal. It would be a long list. Abortion should legal, affordable, and available to all women of the world, when contraception has failed or been unavailable. A child is too important to be an accident, and unwanted children so often do not have good childhoods.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
you are a inteligent individual and somebody with a high degree of education. one can see that by the way you express yourself. im agree with you in almost everything but i think a fetus have life. im a sonographer and ive seen the beating heart of the fetus, so that tells me it has a life. i still think is not a crime to do a abortion because the fetus doesnt know is alive because it doesnt know life, it havent been born. i dont think taking the life of something that doesnt know life can be call a crime. i think that desicion is up to the futere parents and no 1 else. ultimatelly the future parents are the only ones who have the responsability of abortion or taking care of a human being for the rest of their lifes. i still like ron paul and i will vote for him if i have the chance.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
i believe in euthenasia, i believe in death penalty, i believe in equal rights to homosexuals, i believe in equal rights to women, i believe that racist groups should be made illegal and erradicated from society, i believe goverment to run healthcare and education but im flexible to other tendencies that contradicts one or two of the ones just mentioned.
finally i think drugs should be legal like in the netherlands and gun taken away from people and police, i believe in a weapon free society. i believe in acusing of attempting murder anyone caught with a gun. because thats the only use it has.
—now all of you who protect life and think abortion is a crime come a attack me because i know all of you like to have weapons to kill others. i dont understand this people.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
people will always find away to kill eachother, guns or no guns, weapons or no weapons. what is a fascist like you doing on a website like this?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
T, please learn the definitons of words that you call people. alex is not a fascist if he believes in equal rights, women’s rights, etc. it is best to use words wisely. He may make you angry, but please repond more intelligently otherwise why respond at all?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Human life does begin at conception. From that point forward, the conceptus has all the human DNA it shall ever have. This is how all human beings begin, without exception. We do not measure whether the organism in question is human on the basis of it’s level of maturity, we determine whether it is human by DNA and DNA alone. All life on earth progresses through various stages of maturity, but not all life is human. Were we to follow the specious logic that since a conceptus isn’t mature that’s it’s not human, what possible objection then could be raised to taking the life of a post-natal baby which was born an hour ago? It’s not mature either, nor is it self sufficient or self responsible.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
It is truly amazing to me, how man has always, always tried to improve on the word of God and nature also—to their
own destruction.
Man left to his own logic and theories is nothing more than minimal specks of nothingness.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I think that is mostly untrue i have known a lot of people who have been adopted and as far as i know they are happy, and their offspring are fine too. Plus they are all really close to their parents. My friend’s mother had her when she was in high school and i think about if this girl aborted my friend,i think about how great of person my friend is and it breaks my heart. Her personality shines so bright, she can make any one laugh. She wouldn’t be here if her mother had only been thinking about herself. Though she was given up for adoption she still sees her mother, and she knows who she is. Why should someone feel empty because they don’t know where they came from. It matters where your going, and what kind of person you are. I believe that life begins at conception because obviously that life was intended to be made. I had another friend who didn’t even meet his real parents but is content with that. He also has six kids,a wife he is madly in love with, and good friends. I think you are also wrong about how we need to treat older people better than younger people. I think we should treat them equally. The younger ones are going to be the ones running the country some day. I don’t strongly believe in the death penalty because people do change. Abortion is a slippery slope, if this county is for killing defenseless, unborn children, then who knows what we will do next, perhaps go into senseless wars in iraq and kill more young americans.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
In answer to e148. It is obvious you’ve not very much experience in life yet. I gather you’re still in college or possibly just graduated and are a little filled with yourself. When you’ve gotten a little more experience in life like Dr. Paul or me (a father of two wonderful adopted children) then come back a talk about what you’ve found out. Learn one thing early in life. Right now your opinions do not amount to much because it’s apparent you are a young person full of angst and anger without a lot of experience in life. Wait till you are older, know what it is to raise children, love a spouse for 30 years and be in the service of others. Then your opinions will have something behind them.
Face it, you’ve got a lot to learn. Believe me, I’m still learning.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
i think the choice of an abortion should be left to the future father and mother. they are the ones responsible for the future baby. goverment doesnt take care of babies in need of love, in contrast punish those with less in our society. church does the same thing. i think it shoul be up the the couple to decide. i believe in owning ones life also. i believe in eutenasia. i believe that if all unwanted babies are born the world will end soon. for menay reason. the church or the goverment doesnt take care of those unwantes babies so they better keep their mouth shout regarding this topic.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
alex: Your argument for abortion is borderline retarded and your mastery of the English language isn’t much better.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Why am I not surprised that there are a lot of comments on this page? Lol, I am personally pro-life, but I think when it comes to laws on abortion, it should be dealt on a local level.
Like or Dislike:
0 
1
I’m with you on that Ted. Anytime the Fed gets involved, they really make a mess of it. Master screw ups they are. It’s amazing at how being pro life myself, libertarian and trying to explain to people that you’d rather it be done on a local level and that the federal government has no business in it, how misunderstood you can be. Both liberals and conservatives want a strong federal government and that’s just plain unconstitutional.
Like or Dislike:
0 
1
What would you say to a woman that has a severely defective fetus? What if she had other children? Would they be effected by the lack of parental attention? What would a mentally unstable mother do with a severely handicapped child? I think there are instances where an abortion should be allowed and the only person that should make that decision is the individual. To have it any other way is unconstitutional, think about it. There needs to be regulations in place. Would you adopt a severely handicapped child? There are so many bad parents out there. A lot of people are clueless about parenting, they should recieve some kind of training so they know what they’re getting into then be encouraged to give the child up for adoption. Teaching abstinence does not work. Religion should not influence politics. this country was at least partially on freedom of religion. For one group to dictate policy to another is unconstitutional. There needs to be reform for sure, but in order to make change we have to get away from the all or nothing practice. Religion needs to be taken out of the equation otherwise you are promoting terony. If you don’t bend something will break. Sometimes you have to loose a battle to win the war.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
There are exemptions to everything. The severely handicap scenario is one possible exception, but I still think it would be wrong to have an abortion if it is 24 weeks or later in the pregnancy; regardless of handicap. By that point it’s too late and the only other option should be to give the child up for adoption.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Alex, to say that abortion is wrong except for in a case which deals with a mentally handicapped is completely contradictory to what it means to be pro-life in any way. The problem with society today is that we as a whole do not value life for what it is. Life is precious, regardless of it’s defects. A human, conceived mentally handicapped or not, is a human. We cannot base the standards of whether or not a person is actually a human on one’s mental capacity. If that were the case, I would be considered more human than those of third world countries because I am able to read and write. As you may recall, Hitler also believed that the mentally handicapped were less than those who were considered “normal”. Our society needs to reexamine our ideals and return to the morality that our country was founded on.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The premise underlying our inalienable rights is that they are endowed upon us by our creator. They are not given us by any man or government. Therefore, they can not be taken by any man or government. Thomas Jefferson, the architect of the Constitution is quoted as saying: “Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.”
Just curious, in that religion influences man, and man influences politics, is it not then true that religious influence of politics would thus be unavoidable? Are there any religions that advocate abortion?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
James: Good Point!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
robin, right on. Abortion is an extremely personal and conplex issue. It must be left to the individual woman to make that choice. No one is forcing anyone to have an abortion, but those who want to outlaw it, are for forcing their decision on others. Free choice in this country means just that and we have to be always on guard that govewrnments do not take that away.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Robin: Ask Sarah Palin the first three questions and I think you’ll get the right answers.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Well my cousin is extremely handicapped and my aunt and uncle are in no financial position to support him but he is a light in there world. And the rest of our family. Just because someone is handicap doesn’t mean they are hopeless, you better watch what you say about handicaps someone might call you a nazi. I’m not because obviously you are on this website. There was a man who was completely paralyzed except for his eyes could blink. He wrote a book with a sign language that involved blinking. I don’t think religion should get into this either, but i do think that this subject really shows what the morals of this country are. Maybe the terrorists atacked us because we murder innocent children, that’s hypocritical but aren’t we all hypocrites at one point in our life time.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The Libertarian view is dead on with economics, the Constitution, and Sound Money. I am grateful for RP for his insight and respect for Life. I think the Libertarian party should consider his position more thoughtfully in this case.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Abortion is murder. The counsel towards of which is conspiracy to commit murder. Any participation is accessory to commit murder. Any act taken to conceal this fact from the American people is obstruction of Justice. Any attempt to assist in said act is accessory to murder. Any license to commit murder by the Government is Tyranny. This is how serious this issue is.
Abortion is spiritual suicide. Anything you tolerate you endorse. How much longer before God removes his blessing from this nation because of this licensed murder? How much longer will he stay his hand in judgment? God Bless you and thank you for taking a stand. You are an honorable man. America needs you more now than ever. Please consider running for the office of Presidency again in the year 2012.
I encourage all to turn away from the cunning language of pro-choice and refer to this as it truly is: “pro-murder”. Persevere and speak boldly {Ephesians 6:20}
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. {Ephesians 6:12}
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
* A womb is suppose to be an atmosphere for life.
* A womb is a prepared place for reproduction.
* A womb only accepts what is fertilized.
* A womb is a protective environment.
* A womb is a catalytic environment.
* A womb is a nourishing environment.
* A womb knows timings for birth.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
You have so much spiritual belief but is there a grasp of reality in you too? The only way I could ever agree to a ban on abortions is if people like you who are so very much against them is willing to put your money where your beliefs are. If we are to stop abortions there will be thousands of hungry babies to feed and raise and raise well, not just half ass. Are you willing to sign that list to raise them? Doubt it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Laura,
Your argument for the murder of children is because there is not enough money to go around? Perhaps, rather than complaining about the financial situation we would be put in, you and others who think like you should examine what has driven our society into abortions and contraceptives. We as a society do not realize the value we hold as sexual beings. Rather than using sex as a means of reproduction and bonding between husband and wife, sex has become casual, something done for fun. This of course has led to the rise of unwanted pregnancies. Of course, one could argue that the solution is contraception, yet contraception has been legal for over 30 yrs and unwanted pregnancies continue to grow, therefore they cannot be an adequate solution. What is the solution? A re-evaluation of our society’s thoughts towards sex. We need to come to value sex as an extremely serious and beautiful thing that must be cherished and protected in every way. Only through this will unwanted pregnancies be diminished, and only through this will abortion be abolished.
And by the way, as a child of a single mother raising two children on her own, I am proud to say we never used government money to fund our lives. We have and continue to live under the poverty level. Moreover, my brother and I are now adding to the economic prosperity of this country by attending, and paying for, our college educations and becoming productive citizens of America. Did we go to bed hungry sometimes? Yes. Would I rather be dead than have had to experience the poverty that we experienced? Absolutely not. I know most babies would agree with me.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I may be an atheist, but I believe in personable responsibility, and I agree with RP’s opinion that abortion cheapens our view of life.
The choice that I agree with is the choice to not have sex. It’s as easy as that. If you do not want a child, don’t have intercourse. Male or female.
I dislike the moniker “Pro-Choice”, because it’s a stance that is in favor of only 1 choice. There is no choice for the child, nor for the father. It’s hypocritical to campaign to let a mother choose whether or not to support a child, then throw the father in jail for failure to pay child support.
It’s not as simple a matter as a “man wanting to control a woman’s body” like the kneejerk response, nor a matter of Pro-Lifers being religious zealots. Just take responsibility for your actions and the world will be a better place.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
thank you!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics/fourteen.asp
This is the link to Murray Rothbard’s book, “The Ethics of Liberty” Chapter 14 which discusses abortion and children’s “rights.” I would recommend everyone read this chapter, and this book. We’re talking about a legal code of ethics, not morality. I could go on, but the late, great Mr. Rothbard is far more eloquent than I.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
If woman only new that Women’s Liberation movement was funded by the Federal Government, their leader was Gloria Steinem…
Abortion is a way for the federal government’s worldwide to depopulate the world.
And yes the mothers should be asking that live baby would you like to be killed today?
And that day there will be a “Silent Scream” from with your womb…………………………………
NO the Politicians and leaders of many nations do not think like that..they want less babies being born in this nation….less jobs to offer …..
I am sorry but the only comfort that can be offered to,Liliana is to ask for forgiveness from Jesus and God the Father of the Universe……
I am sure the husband and the father of that baby needs forgiveness too…….
Many people have been in your circumstances….but also….the government provided you the drugs indirectly…..the government knows the Drug Program is working when they hear these stories….you paid for alot of their perks and handouts….and bonus’s…..sorry we have all been duped by the government in so many ways……but just think God loves every hair on your head….and don’t you forget that……..God is Love……
I love you too for telling us your story…..I hope it helps someone to not have an abortion……
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
You are so right. Abortion is Spirtual Suicide. It is evil. We can no longer remain silent. No longer can we remain “polite”. When I am judged, God will have a long list on me no doubt; but, on his list will not be turning a blind eye on the injustice to the innocent. Thank you.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Well, here is my story: I was married, and my then husband was very much into drugs. He got me into them, and we did quite a bit. The first pregnancy, I was clean. The second one, I was unaware until after I had done some pretty hard drugs. I was concerned for the child’s development, but I was unable to stop at this point. I was physically, mentally, and emotionally abused by my then husband, and partially bullied into having an abortion. Ultimately it was my decision. Had I not had the procedure, I don’t know what I would have done.
Since then, I have cleaned up my life, had a healthy little boy, who is on the autism spectrum, divorced my husband, finished nursing school, met someone new and wonderful, got remarried, and am pregnant with my second child.
I don’t know if I would have made the same decisions as I made back then, but the point is that it was MY decision to make and I would not want anyone else to try and make that choice for me.
It is not my place to choose for another woman, or to force my beliefs on someone else. I know that I would not consider an abortion currently. I have a special needs child already, and he does quite well. I don’t know that I would not choose to abort a child with SEVERE disabilities – as in something that would cause them great constant suffering and pain with an early death (by age 5 or earlier). It would probably be the most difficult decision of my life, and I won’t know what I would do unless I was in that position. I know what it’s like to want a child and lose it due to miscarriage. I also know what it is like to have to make an incredibly difficult decision, and while being bullied into it, knowing that it was ultimately the best choice out of some pretty nasty choices. I know what it’s like to have had a wonderful, healthy child who has autism. Hopefully this new baby will be born healthy, and happy.
I agree with Ron Paul on many issues. I don’t agree with partial birth abortion. I don’t like the idea of abortions taking place after the gestational age of viability, mainly because there was ample time prior to that to make the decision to abort. But I feel that it is not anyone else’s place to make the decision for anyone else. It’s hard enough to make the decision without having people standing around saying that a woman shouldn’t have that right. I was lucky to have the law on my side. I hope that it stays legal for women to make their own decisions.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Liliana–
“I feel that it is not anyone else’s place to make the decision for anyone else.”
Where is the asterisk (or parenthetical) at the end of your statement here? Don’t you mean to say, “I feel that it is not anyone else’s place to make the decision for anyone else (except when it’s the mother making a decision for her child).”
Does the baby have a say in this decision that is foisted on them?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Are you implying that parents don’t make life or death decisions for their children every single day? You have parents who believe in faith healing who refuse to treat their children with medical help, instead insisting that “God will heal them or it’s just their time to go” line of thought. What about those parents? What about the other neglectful parents who never wanted their children in the first place, those that murder their kids? Those kids had no choice. They had things “foisted” upon them, and no one says anything until someone dies a tragic and horrible death.
No, it is NOT my place – nor is it anyone else’s place – to decide whether or not someone carries a fetus to term. For me, until a fetus can survive on it’s own outside the womb (with or without medical intervention), then it’s not able to live. Not only that, there are so many unwanted children out there – suffering in orphanages, shuttled between foster families. Some of them are abused, raped, even murdered. I think that if you are staunchly pro-life, then you need to step up and donate time and money to an orphanage. Take in foster kids. Do your part to help support these kids – because if people who are pro life have their way, there will be millions of unwanted needy children out there who have no one to help them.
I am a firm believer in BIRTH CONTROL – and abortion is NOT birth control. There are still pharmacies who will not dispense birth control pills or morning after pills to women. Some places will not allow people under 18 to purchase condoms or contraceptives. And even if you use contraceptives there are times that they fail. I don’t want to see women and teenage girls going to back alley abortionists. Women found ways to abort before Roe v. Wade. They will find ways after. It’s better to keep it safe.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
There seems to be some dissonance in your reasoning, Liliana. On the one hand you properly state:
“What about the other neglectful parents…that murder their kids? Those kids had no choice.”
You then go on to say:
“For me, until a fetus can survive on it’s own outside the womb (with or without medical intervention), then it’s not able to live.”
So using your own logic, why couldn’t the murderer of a child(already born), plead innocence on the grounds that the child was “not able to live” given that it was unable to thwart it’s own murder?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I think all late term and partial birth abortions should be completely illegal. Those practices sick and nothing short of murder. If a mother doesnt decide by the time of “gestational age of viability” then abortion should not be allowed because she had “ample time prior to that to make the decision to abort.” To say that it is not anyone else’s decision but the mother’s to abort a late term pregnancy is an equivalent to saying that the mother has the option of killing her pre-mature child if she simply choose’s to do so. Besides that, the child is equally as much the fathers child as well, so it is just as much his choice as it is the mothers choice. I agree that the (potential) parents should legally have a choice early term. From what I’ve read 21 weeks is the gestation period for the earliest premature child; he weighed 1pound-6ounces and is now 22yrs old and healthy. Abortions before 22 weeks into pregancy should be completely up to the parents or just the pregnat woman if the father is not around; That’s plenty of time to decide. Abortions after 22 weeks should be completely illegal and, if performed, a just punishment should be given. Probably something similar to and/or atleast 2nd degree manslaughter, which I personally believe is a very light punishment.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
God states in psalms that he “knew” you as he knit you together in your mothers womb. God is not speaking of the flesh and blood that he “knew”, but rather the ever-lasting spirit that he placed there. He “knew” that part of you that is eternal, that part of you that has always and will always exist.
Life begins at conception. I agree with most of your statement. However, the child in the womb is alive from the very beginning. To knowingly kill it at any time is murder and should be criminally prosecuted.
Criminal Prosecution should be as any other murder: Murder in the First Degree with Malicious Premeditation.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
That might be a nice sentiment – if I were Christian, which I am not.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Thank you for shareing your story, Im not sure how I feel about Ron Paul. I dont think everyone can agree on everything. I thought it was the religous thing to not judge. I want the right to make my own decisions, weather its about my body or what I choice to beleive or not to beleive in.
yours tuely
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Mrs. Carter…..if your so much into choice then why do you allow your government to purposely put Fluoride into your drinking water….or haven’t you learned about the toxicity of that choice which was made for you without your permission???
And a abortion is really not your choice its the goverments for the purpose of depoplulation…..
thank about that one for minute…..
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Video Search from Truveo
The History of Fluoride, A century of neurological breakdown
The History of Fluoride, A century of…
History of Flouride Part 1 –
Part 2 will tell you the more….
History of Flouride Part 1 – See…
The Reasons Why Water Fluoridation is Bad
The Reasons Why Water Fluoridation is Bad…
http://www.righthealth.com/topic/History_Of_Fluoride
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Fluoride has nothing to do with abortion. I think she wants less government and more personal rights. Abortion has been around longer than the threat of over-population.
“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. “But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (NAS, Exodus 21:22-24)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Humans are savage animals, Americans especially. We kill soooo many animals its outrageous. We aren’t even built like omnivores, we are built like herbivores.
Facial Muscles
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HUMAN: Well-developed
Jaw Type
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle
Jaw Joint Location
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars
Jaw Motion
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Major Jaw Muscles
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
CARNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
OMNIVORE: Large
HUMAN: Small
Teeth: Incisors
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Teeth: Canines
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted
Teeth: Molars
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps
Chewing
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary
Saliva
CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Stomach Type
CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple
Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
Length of Small Intestine
CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length
Colon
CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated
Liver
CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Kidney
CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine
Nails
CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
For The Record !!
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=110644
Killing babies leaves room for third-world labor. We all want more third-world labor, right?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
yes brother you are right. thats the truth behind the churchs in all latin-american countries with the exception of cuba, the church keep ignorant society against abortions so the elite can have cannonmeat. thats the truth, im agree with you.
do you know that in latin-american countries with the exception of cuba and puerto rico wich is part of the US they make women have babies even if is an abnormal fetus or is a product of a rape. with the ecpetion of cuba and mexico city only.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Circumcision is a related practice that needs to be outlawed, it is incredibly harmful and an atrocious denial of human rights.
visit http://www.norm.org/ for the facts.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I agree…as a student nurse I assisted with several in the nursery.
I cringed when I would watch this happening…I thought it was so barbaric…and some doctors took more skin off than others…I wanted to tell them no you don’t need to take it down to the shaft…….nooo. You have never seen a little baby scream so loud…..and we had to hold them down….its awful..just awful…I feel so bad that I as a nurse had to assit the doctor doing that…God forgive me…..
I wish mothers and dads could watch and they would never let their little boy go through that…it is really not necessary.
And then many years later I feel it is contributing to alot of mens aggressive screwing! A man who has not had his pleasurable foreskin removed..is a much gentler lover……
Now I know it was not only traumatic for a baby boy, but I wonder if it messes up their adult sensuality and oozing pleasure…this is what I think.but only a circumcised or uncircumcised man could compare notes…
I know African woman are circumsized too….and that is done so they will have no sexual pleasure during intercourse….so what does that say…..?
I”m glad I don’t live in Africa…..
I worked also in a Jewish Hospital, Learned that the Jews are the ones who started circumcision…they do it for religious meaning..but they do not use the “bell”…they just pull the foreskin out as far as they can and cut just a little piece of it off….even so none of it should be cut off in my mind…..
I was wondering why men haven’t spoken up about it years ago….
You guys would have to do a study and find out if it really makes a difference or not….
And then ask God to help you with that traumatic experience that has to be in your unconscious…I”m sorry …..God can heal that for you….your unconscious memory of it..I pray God will heal it and maybe grow you new foreskin!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
you should know as a nurse that crying is a primitive response. dont you see the people living like vegetable that they laugh and blink also. those are primitive response. are you going to tell me that a unborn fetus knows life. for god sake it hasnt been born yet.
—forget god because nature is savage, only the strong survives. animal mothers will not feed babies that look sick. do research and find out.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I was circumcised and I dont remember the pain. I like my penis too and he works just fine. Many ladies say they like the circumcised look too, but this discussion is on abortion so lets keep it on that.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I was responding to: Alan Cherne says:
September 18, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Circumcision is a related practice that needs to be outlawed, it is incredibly harmful and an atrocious denial of human rights.
visit http://www.norm.org/ for the facts.
if you read his comment above mine….I know I am being rather clinical about it but also giving my opinion as one who has seen several done. I disagree with it…for stated reasons…and as an adult you wouldn’t remember it..as the mother soon forgets the pain of labor and delivery of a child….why don’t you ask Ron Paul…..he says he has delivered 4,000 babies……so he must have an opinion on circumcision and abortion…
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
As an adult I wouldnt remember it; that was my point. I always liked that i was circumcised. i never knew there was a group of people that didnt like it. This is new to me. that link you provided is a non-profit support group for men who have concerns about being circumcised. I am not 1 of those men. I never knew that there were men that had concerns of being circumcised unless they did it as an adult. the whole circumcision issue has never been relevant to me and i was never aware that it was an issue to begin with. Not that I bring it up in conversation but if ever someone would ask me if I was circumcised I would proudly say yes, and I will continue to do so. I’m completely ok with it. To my understanding, uncircumcised men are more likely to contract std’s and are more likely to get dry skin on the penis and the penis requires much more “maintenance” I guess you could call it, for cleaning and stuff. I assume boxer/brief lint can get caught under the skin. That’s only from what ive heard. I’m circumcised so i really have no clue how it is to live any other way other than from hearsay. I can’t say how it is to have a whole lot of foreskin but what i can say is that ive never had a problem of lack of sensitivity and to whoever it was that mentioned aggressiveness, im actually a very passive nonviolent person. I dont see the need to mention my sex life but it is certainly not bad. certainly no better or worse than a random uncircumcised man. I think the only men that may have concerns about there circumcisions are men that were cut poorly and that probably doesnt happen too often. If a parent is considering to circumcise her son, I dont see any problem with it as long as she knows the doc or mohel knows what he is doing. Some people do it for religious reasons too so just let them do what they believe. men have been circumcised for thousands of years and they have kids and families just like everyone else. Read Genesis chapter 17. I feel good knowing that even though I am a sinner I have atleast kept that covenant. but thats just what I believe. not trying to push it on anyone else.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Bjorn:
I appreciate your Howard Zinn quote, and I believe that you have correctly pointed out the fact that our founders were not all Christian.
While I understand your assertion that science has not figured out when a zygote or embryo becomes a human being, I would assert that there is a scientific definition for human life that would include zygotes and embryos. How many chromosomes does a sperm have? 23. How many chromosomes does an egg have? 23. How many chromosomes does an embryo have? 46! Is the DNA sequence the same as that of the mother or father? Remarkably the answer is no! It is something new, something unique, something never before seen coming onto the human stage. And it is alive and growing.
Before fertilization, it was not unique. After fertilization it is a one of a kind (identical twins excepted of course). Before fertilization, it was not growing. After fertilization, it is growing and alive. There is no other point in the development cycle that marks such a drastic change. Without the tennant that human life begins at conception, the question of what is human life is placed on a sliding scale. Some say 2 year old children can be aborted. I find that repulsive. Others contend that after a person has become useless they ought to be euthenized like a dog or a cat. This was done in Nazi Germany.
Many will argue that the good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the one. This is only a road to tyrrany. But when we allow the good of the one, even the one in the womb, to flourish, we will find that what brings the good of the one actually benefits the many inadvertanly or intentionally.
Take the case of the one who said that more intelligent people should be having children. This is pure eugenics from the progressive period. It’s nonsense. Whether his parents had a high IQ or a low IQ, a human being can be smart and do something useful. Think of how many nurses, doctors, teachers, parents, and such have been aborted. How much good could have been spread around to the many if these few (now upwards of 45 million few) had remained? Einstein didn’t talk until he was, what, five years old? I don’t know, I may have my facts wrong on that one. Still, this view that it is for the good of the race as a whole that only smart people have babies actually will have the effect of taking away many other smart people, and many other useful people as well. Abortion destroys our country’s most precious resource — human beings.
I’m for life, liberty, and the pursuit of property. That’s why I’m an independent.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I just think smarter people should be having babies.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Matt sure adds that elitist flare to our humble site.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Case in point. Don’t you mean ‘flair’ Louie or you still working at TGI Fridays?
Ahhh, the spellcheck giveth and the spellcheck taketh away.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
It is so incredibly easy to set you up, Mattie.
Flare, as in ‘a sudden outburst’ … or, as in ‘burn out and fade away’. I guess with your proven tunnel vision, it was just too easy.
Just put that little piece of cheese on a string, and Mattie will dance that elitist dance.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
amen!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Question: Why is their a fine of $1,000 if an Eagle Egg is destroyed? How much does the doctor get paid to destroy a baby?
Question: Why do men still not know how babies are made?
Question: Why do woman give doctors permission to kill their babies?
Question: Why are doctors not put in prison for killing millions of babies?
Question: Why do men, not feel any emotion when they insist the woman kill their babies?
Question: Why don’t we ask the men how many woman they have impregnated and how many live children they have now?
The doctors ask the woman how many pregnancies they have had and how many children are living?
If the men were made to be responsible and accountable for their seed/sperm for the rest of their lives, they would be made to have a memory of their sins….they do not feel the least responsible for causing a life or a death.
I am not saying all men….but I am trying to figure out why men feel no responsibility at all for that child and the woman.
I wonder where that term “fetus” came from, does anyone know?
what does it the word “fetus” mean? Are animals called fetus’s , or just humans?
Is there any country in the world who does not believe in Abortion?
Are there any graves for the unborn?
Are their any parades of caskets for the unborn, is there any morning for the unborn?
Were they given a name and birth certificate? Stating the parents names?
Did they sacrifice their lives for the purpose of depopulation? What was the purpose of their deaths?
Those children who survive a society of genocide, do not need sex education….until they are adults.
And Men and Woman need Family education and how to build a village, not how to destroy one! Here in the USA and abroad….
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
amen, again!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
You sound very upset towards men. A lot of times it’s the women that don’t want the child. Some women have too many children from too many fathers and when they get pregnant again from another man they don’t want to deal with the burden of another kid and the ridicule from her peers, so they choose to abort. And a lot of women don’t know how babies are made either. I had a conversation once with a young pregnant woman that didn’t understand the concept of conception. She didn’t even know what it was. She didn’t know that a woman can get pregnant from just having sex once. She thought it took a lot of sperm for a baby to form. I’m sure that topic came up with her female friends before it did with me and she still didn’t know, so her friends probably didn’t know either. Some men probably choose not to take responsibility because the woman doesn’t allow them too. I’m sure there are irresponsible men when it comes to this topic, and if a man insists on abortion (as horrible as that may be), when it all comes down to it, abortion is ultimately the womans decision.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Excellent jan!
As for the “men” comments, I see where you are not attacking them, just bringing out a point and really, the truth.
It’s not an attack on men. At least I am not seeing that. You are just asking questions that usually are not part of the equation in discussions or decision process.
I can assure the gentlemen who voiced his question, my son, when approached by his girlfriend (she was 20) and told she was pregnant, was very involved in the decision process. Her family tried to push her and almost succeeded, toward abortion, up to the day she was going to be secretly whisked away.
My son suspected something and went directly to her parents home and made his stand.
Basically he told them “that baby is my baby too. if you go through with this, knowing where I stand on this, the blood will be on your hands, not mine!”
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Wow, you bring up some good points. And yes some men may read this and not see at all that it is men that are half to blame for pregnancy but it falls on the woman to be blamed, care for, abort, not abort, etc.
Men need to wake up. If men wanted to, they could stop abortion almost completly without changing one law. By just taking responsibilty for where they put their tool 100 % of the time.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Jan,
Fetus is Latin for “young one” or “little child”. You said some good things above but remember that there are many, many man who have emotional problems because their wife, girl friend had their child killed by abortion.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Anyone who thinks late term and/or partial birth abortions are acceptable is completely demented. Those procedure’s are so sick and disturbing I can’t even begin to understand how someone of sound mind can believe them to be anything less than murder.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
It’s seems insane that this could even be debatable.
I just don’t get it.
My heart, my mind, my soul tells me this is killing.
And yes, I can’t even bear to watch a video showing what they do to these poor little souls.
I started to watch one about 6 months ago, not really realizing it was going to be a video.
My God! I had to stop and I felt like my heart was being ripped from my chest!
It just absolutely broke my heart!
I still can’t get over it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
IM AGAINS PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTIONS OK.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
ANYONE who thinks any abortion is acceptable is ” completely demented”, to use your words.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
For the lady that does not want to bear an ‘unwanted’ child, I prescribe an aspirin.
Place the aspirin on the inside of your left knee, then press your right knee against the aspirin. Now, just put your butt against the wall and call me in the morning.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Well any scientist worth their salt will tell you that every human begins life as a single cell (zygote), formed when father’s sperm fertilizes mother’s egg. In it’s natural progression (outside influences excepted), this cell will develop into an embryo, fetus, and what even you might recognize as a fully grown human.
That said, I think it more pertinent that you define your position since you are advocating the practice of abortion. If you are unsure what constitutes personhood (as your above entry implies), how can you support abortion without a looming thought that you might potentially be killing a human?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The beginning of your post was semantically misleading Thomas, here is how you worded it:
‘. . .every human begins life. . .’
A far more scientific way of presenting this very true fact regarding human reproduction would have been: “. . .every fetus begins life. . .”
You are assuming that a zygote is human, or at least, that is what your post implies. My point in my previous post was that science has not determined when this fetus should be ethically considered human.
The problem with this debate that you are I are having is that it boils down to philosophical and moral questions, not scientific or judicial ones. So long as the debate continues to be driven by theological, philosophical or moral engines, I shall remain pro-choice. When science can definitively say: “The fetus is human at this point. . .” then I will reconsider my stance.
Regarding the philosophical ramifications regarding personhood, I only wish to bring up one more point to consider: what makes human life better than any other life?
What I mean is, every day, countless animals are killed, be it by euthenasia, slaughter for meat, pollution poisoning their habitats or simply abuse and neglect. If you are truly “pro-life”, then you would be campaigning for life of all kinds. If you were scientifically aware you would know that the entire planet is a symbiotic life-form, of which trees, oceans, humans and all other lives are merely cells and organs. What effects one portion of this planetary symbiote effects the whole. In my opinion, humankind has become malignant to the body of Earth, like a cancer, a cellular structure that once knew it’s place in the grand scheme of things has become over-productive and this hyper-activity of the terrestrial glands has caused the body of Earth to become diseased. Therefore, in my opinion, one less unwanted, uncared for human life could be a blessing to the planet. The pro-lifers always argue that an abortion may eliminate the future human who might have had the cure for cancer, but what if the abortive procedure actually removed the one human that would have tallied critical mass upon our biosphere, the hair the broke the camel’s back, to speak metaphorically.
Human life will be regarded with varying degrees of reverence depending on the religious and philosophical origin of the person. My opinion is a non-issue, for it is a religiously motivated one, as is every other person’s opinion.
Laws should be made according to the social ramifications of the action the law wishes to abolish. There is no need for “moral” guidance beyond sociology. Murdering someone is obviously wrong because it deprives that person’s family of a provider, whether they provide emotionally or financially. Stealing from someone is wrong because by doing so the thief is depriving that person of their needs and security, etc. We humans don’t need a God or a holy book telling us ‘thou shalt not because I will send you to Hell if you do. . .’. We are beyond that sort of necessity.
So, let us briefly look at the social ramifications of outlawing access to abortion. First of all, the population would sky-rocket. Take the baby-boomers for example, these folks account for approximately a quarter of the American population, and they were all born in one generation. Can you imagine the resultant population boom if even one generation were to not have access to family planning procedures? Could we really handle a twenty-five percent influx of new babies? You think your taxes are high now? Consider how high they would be if this were to occur, what with all of those teenage, single mothers out there applying for food-stamps, housing assistance and government child care.
Demographically most of these unwanted pregnancies would originate in the ghettoes and inner-cities, where a whole generation would grow up in crowded housing, amidst crime and gang culture. This would certainly not help the crime-rate nor the poverty line.
Finally, the number of deaths resulting from “back-alley” abortions would be on the rise. Of course it is easy to sit back in one’s ivory tower and say ‘Well, that is what they deserve for trying to commit murder of an unborn human.’, however it would not be so easy to pontificate so after your own daughter, grand-daughter or niece died in such a manner, in shame and filth, frightened and believing that she had no other alternatives.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Bjorn,
I don’t care to muddy the waters of this argument with the philosophy undergirding either of our positions (just yet, at least). Rather, I’d like you to address what comprises a human in your definition. You are the one who is advocating an aggressive, invasive practice to terminate life so, I think the burden is upon you to substantiate why it is not human life you are advocating the termination of.
As for the art of semantics and wordplay, you said, “A far more scientific way of presenting this very true fact regarding human reproduction would have been: ‘. . .every fetus begins life. . .’ ”. Let me understand your position. You said my initial statement (in my last post) was a “very true fact” and that it related to “HUMAN reproduction”. From there, you somehow surmise that a zygote is not human. First of all, why is a non-human cell the starting point in HUMAN reproduction and if you’re right & a zygote is indeed not human, what is it? Does it not have human DNA?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
My response regarding the zygote question is that the zygote and all other stages of fetal development represent a human potentiality, and should not be considered human until the fetus has reached full term, is determined to be healthy and free from disability or sickness which might cause it to die shortly after birth.
If you believe that a zygote is a human, then should a woman grieve and hold a funeral if she miscarries in0 the first two weeks after conception? Shouldn’t this amorphous single-cell organism be given a name and be mourned as a loss to the family? How far are you willing to take your logic?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Bjorn,
So how is your diminishment of the pre-born to sub-human status (thereby condoning the termination of same) different from the rationale of the Nazis who legally declared Jews as sub-human (& similarly worthy of death)? Was the holocaust not the murder of the Jews? The more appropriate question might not be how far am I willing to take my logic, but rather how far have you already taken yours?
Btw, it may be hard for you to conceptualize, but many folks do grieve their miscarried children. Earlier this year, my wife and I lost our baby at 7 weeks gestation and the pain was not something I’d want anyone to go through.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
All boils down to this: You do not want population congestion. I agree to that. However, choosing abortion is not the best choice. Sex education and familly planning, siblings age gaps to lessen exponential growth. After all, human dies from aging, diseases, murder etc. So there is nothing to worry about. We just wait for those natural causes of death to takeeffect on each life but do not rush in to end one.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Hey there Thomas, here are my answers to your questions.
“How do you feel about third trimester abortions / infanticide?”
I think that infanticide is avoidable so long as abortions remain legal and easily obtained, therefore I am in favor of abortion as a more desirable action than a mother killing her baby via neglect, starvation or violence (which happens more often than many pro-lifers would like to admit). The abortion procedure is quick and far more humane than tossing the unwanted child in a dumpster.
“What about genetic defaults?”
I am in favor of aborting genetically ill-constituted fetuses, as it is more cruel, in my opinion, to allow them to be born and suffer countless ailments and sickness. It would be far better to abort a fetus than to deliver it with organs outside of it’s body. As far as mental handicaps go, I think that mentally retarded fetuses should be humanely aborted as soon as genetic testing shows the disease. The mentally handicapped are a dead weight on our society, soaking up billions of tax-payer dollars in “special education” funds and other programs made to suit them. They are a drag on the resources of the parents and family members, monetarily, emotionally and spiritually. You sarcastically referred to “natural selection”, I believe abortion to be a more humane and safe alternative to natural selection. If we humans weren’t so technologically advanced, and were still living in caves, down-syndrome babies would have been left out to die of exposure and predation. We 21st century humans have a better alternative: abortion.
“How do you feel about euthanizing the elderly?…”
I don’t believe that the elderly should be forcibly euthanized (ie against their will). However I do believe in the Right to Die. I have in my Living Will that I do not want life-support in the case of a serious accident. When the laws change, I will also write that I wish to be euthanized should I succumb to alzheimers or dementia. However the decisions should be made while in good health and of sound mind. I do not condone euthanizing the elderly merely because they are a “drag”. On that note I will also respond to Dolores Y in saying that, yes, I am a Pagan, and as a Pagan I have a great respect for my Elders and view them to be the keepers of wisdom. This does not mean that I do not disagree with many of those who hearken from previous generations, but I do listen to them and take their advice into consideration.
Regarding Planned Parenthood’s allegedly conspiratorial background:
I am unable to see the point, this seems to be a straw-man argument, a contentious ejaculation into an otherwise interesting debate merely for sensationalism. So what is Margaret Sanger wished to control the African American population? That was a different era. Abraham Lincoln wanted to ship the slaves back to Africa after abolishing slavery, should we then round up the African Americans and reinstitute slavery just because the anchor of the abolition movement thought that it would be better if there were no “negroes” around at all?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Bjorn,
Let’s get to brass tacks, my pagan friend. Is it a fact or is it your opinion that a fetus is not human?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
There are no facts regarding that connundrum Thomas, science hasn’t been able to pin point what “human” is much less when a fetus becomes thus. How do you define human?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Thank you Joan for your kindred voice on this issue. I too agree with the Eastern philosophies on when life begins.
RE: Jonathan et al –
I find it interesting that many on this board being so vocal on this issue are males. The sad fact is that throughout history, the male gender has sought new and better ways to dominate the female gender’s ability to procreate. Frankly I feel that this power that the woman holds, the power to make life, frightens men to their quivering bullocks. It seems to me that the majority of those opposed to abortion are practitioners of certain chauvinistic monotheistic religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism. These religions and their subsequent morals teach that inheritance is passed through the paternal line, and the only way paternity can be assured is to control the women and their breeding habits. Thus, anti-choice. Your kind railed against birth-control, it railed against women’s right to vote, and many of your political ilk also railed against civil rights and the abolition of slavery. In other words, chauvinists such as yourselves are backwards and do nothing but pollute the gene pool.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
So Bjorn–
In your mindscape, at what point is it NOT expedient to resort to abortion? Are you among those advocating abortion through the 3rd trimester or perhaps the even more “progressive” approach of infanticide (ala Peter Singer)? At that, you’ve mentioned quality of life issues, so I’d also like to know if you think it suitable to destroy (albeit humanely, of course) those smitten–no doubt by natural selection!–with untreatable diseases? Oh, and also the elderly–how young would you start doing away with old fogies..maybe 64 so as to not encumber our more vibrant and enlightened generations with any unnecessary social security outlays?
I will say, with all of this killing, the movement might be subject to the invariable comparison to the Nazi regime so damage control must be a high priority! And that little pesky fact that Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger’s ambition was to rid the world of black folks and other undesireables…we must needs keep that under wraps. Not to mention the other point that nearly 1 of 2 black pregnancies are aborted–these won’t coalesce so well at all with your talking point on the urgent need for civil rights. In fact, left to the devices of a logician less astute, these realities would prove untenable.
But alas, you are progressive..you are enlightened..you are simply, Bjorn!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
He’s a pagan. What do you expect?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
His views are frightening.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I am not for abortion, but it is a reality. You can bet that if it were men who had the children abortions would be rampant.
My feeling is that most women who have an abortion do so because the “father” becomes just a sperm donor, disappears and leaves her to face the consequences. She is the one who lives in guilt, hurt, disillusioned, but not the sperm donor.
I don’t know of any woman who has had an abortion who didn’t so as a last ditch stand with no other alternatives.
If these politicians think it is so evil then let them help the women who are pregnant and adopt the children themselves or keep their mouths shut!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Norma: I believe we have plenty of people in this country willing to adopt. Correct me if I’m wrong. Also, politicians aren’t the only people that oppose abortion in this country. In fact, for the first time since Roe vs. Wade more people in this country describe themselves as pro-life than pro-choice!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Hey…then ALL of you who oppose abortion adopt one or a bunch of these children. Talk is cheap! Go for it! Save a child, but don’t punish the mother of th “sperm donor”. Adopt, adopt, adopt! If you do not you are phonies.
If adoption is so easy in this country then why are OUR citizens going to other countries to adopt?
This issue does not even belong in the political arena. It is only a vote buying tool for the politicans who want the “Christian” votes.
Like I said I am neither for or against….it is a personal issue.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Should we just kill the poor? Wouldn’t that be easier? Then the “sperm donors” and women who were knocked-up would be wealthy enough to pay someone else to raise the kid. Utopia!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Dear friends and fools,
If you are a christian, then you must be pro life, or else you must be a hypocrite. If you are an unbeliever, then I don’t blame you for not regarding life as precious, considering that you have rejected the source of all life. If you claim to be a pro-abortion, Jesus-loving, christian, then I will call you a liar to your face.
Chris Burleson
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Amen!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
PREBORN – 11 WEEKS AFTER CONCEPTION
* HEART IS BEATING (SINCE 18-25 DAYS)
* BRAIN WAVES HAVE BEEN RECORDED AT 40 DAYS
* THE BABY SQUINTS, SWALLOWS, AND CAN MAKE A FIST
* THE BABY HAS FINGERPRINTS AND CAN KICK
* THE BABY IS SENSITIVE TO HEAT, TOUCH, LIGHT AND NOISE
* THE BABY SUCKS HIS OR HER THUMB
* ALL BODY SYSTEMS ARE WORKING
* THE BABY WEIGHS ABOUT 1 OUNCE AND IS 2 1/2 TO 3 INCHES LONG
* THE BABY COULD FIT COMFORTABLY IN THE PALM OF YOUR HAND
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Yes, those things are accurate…yet there is something else: could this “preborn” survive on it’s own outside the womb at this point? No it could not. I miscarried at 11 weeks with my first pregnancy. Once the fetus can survive on it’s own outside the womb, I think it should be against medical advice to abort. There was plenty of time to make up one’s mind prior to the gestational age of viability.
I myself am pro-choice, not because I support abortion as birth control (condoms are MUCH more cost effective and easier to obtain), but because I am not in the position these women are in. I don’t know their stories or what may have happened to them. It’s their choice, not mine. I would rather a woman choose to abort within the 1st trimester than carry to term and murder the living, breathing infant because she never wanted it in the first place.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Thank you Ron Paul. If for anything else you stand for, thank you for respecting and protecting, human life.
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”
“”For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; wonderful are Thy works, and my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from Thee, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance: and in Thy book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them.” Psalms 139:13-16″”
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Actually, pro abortionist should be grateful we are fighting for their unborn. If we didn’t care, it would be easier to realize that it would be a few million, less liberals, who will hate in the world, to carry on your agenda/ torch.
Eventually, your breed would be no more.
You will become extinct.
I would be happier if you would just go live in Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, China and let us “live” in peace, the true Americans, we are.
However, we are non partisan when it comes to this issue and are defending your unborn child’s right to live, as well.
Just as our soldiers from time past until now, who have shed their blood to give you the freedoms, to spew your hate, in the guise of “free speech,” now we have millions of unborn humans, shedding their blood for your, “freedom” of “choice”
These soldiers are the same whom many of you refer to as “baby killers!”
Hypocrites!
What a sick, pathetic group you have evolved too.
Yes, it would be alot easier to think of you as becoming “extinct” if we had your mindset.
But we don’t. We value life. Even yours!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“The true Americans we are.”
Hmm I wonder how you find yourself in the “true American” category, what are the parameters for this assumption? Are you ignorantly assuming that because some people nearly three hundred years ago wrote the word “God” on a founding document that this meant that America was to be some sort of haven for ultra-right-wing conservative Christians? I think that your Christianity and the faith held by the Founding Fathers would be so extremely different that those venerable old gents would probably simply scratch their heads in confusion.
Someone who understands history would know that blanket statements are never true. One cannot say ‘the Founding Fathers wanted this to be a Christian nation!’ without being a liar. Thomas Jefferson was an agnostic and even rewrote the Gospels, editing out all of Jesus’ miracles and leaving only the wise words. Benjamin Franklin was a deist and new evidence uncovered at one of his homes in England suggests that he was a member of Sir Francis Dashwood’s Hellfire Club, a sordid little fraternity that would hire prostitutes, dress them as nuns, perform black mass and have wild orgies in the catacombs beneath Sir Francis Dashwood’s estate chapel. George Washington was a Freemason, and while their language tends to be of a Biblical, psuedo-Christian bent, those who know Masons or anything about their Order know that the Masons are very humanistic and merely utilize the Biblical stories as allegories to how they can become better humans. The higher levels of the Freemasons teach occult rituals and High Ceremonial magic as found in the Lesser Key of Solomon King and the Books of Abremelin the Mage. Washington was a 33rd Degree Freemason and was certainly privy to these occult secrets.
There you go, three examples of how the Founding Fathers weren’t as “Christian” as the right-wing revisionists would like to lead you to be believe.
“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Howard Zinn
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Bjorn,
It is obvious that you are far better informed, educated and have a wider viewpoint than many of the respondents in this subject. He who brings God into the equation to boost his argument is a a bit arrogant, as it implies he is a spokesman for God’s opinion. There are many definitions of ‘God’ besides that of the doctrine of Christian church. It seems true that the single-minded opposition to abortion always excludes serious consideration of the huge social, political, and environmental impact that has resulted from the overpopulation of our beautiful planet. This narrow view seems to prevail, unfortunately.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Ultimately, no matter who you are, the abortion debate comes down to your beliefs or lack thereof. There is no hard, proven, definite fact that defines the beginning of “life” that is universally agreed upon by all. The biggest problem with the abortion debate in my opinion is that it is overwhelmed with morality and emotion.
I would consider myself pro-choice, but I still support Dr. Paul. I think there are atrocities in it, but I think that it can also be the best choice for a given situation. It all depends on the specifics. I don’t want to murder babies, but I don’t want their lives to suffer because of the circumstances beyond their control into which they were born.
I’ve witnessed several lives in ruin from both outcomes, but ultimately, it is a personal choice, and it should remain unregulated by any form of govt. in my opinion, state or federal. Emotionally it’s hard enough already, the last thing anyone needs on top of that is having to deal with legal ramifications and potential medical mishaps that would come from over-regulating a truly LIFELONG personal matter.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Just like John the Baptist, Jan, we are voices crying out in the wilderness. Most don’t want to hear it. They have hardened their hearts, for many, their hearts have waxed cold.
Folks, back then thought he was crazy, nothing has changed these thousands of years.
A seed was planted in their lives somewhere along the way. Until they open the windows of their hearts to receive the Son-shine, to nurture, they won’t see, hear or understand.
Mark Chapter 4 explains it best, of course!
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/mark/mark4.htm
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Cry out to God for forgiveness……..Revelation 21:8
The Illuminati Tsunami is fast approaching and nearly at our doorsteps, but I still stand on dry ground for which my Lord has parted the sea for me to walk in……….my eyes are on the sparrow and my heart is with the Spirit of the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!
forever Jan in Christ!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
That “cell” has the finger print of God in it. It is called, DNA. You know, it identifies who you are and where you came from.
But then, you would have to believe the God created the universe and everything in it to buy into that huh?
“professing to be wise, they became fools!”
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
i have no problem with and abortion when its still just a cell. i dont see the cell as a human yet i do have a problem with late term abortion as you described above the 2 pound living breathing baby being thrown into a bucket. but if women has an abortion i see it has her right to choose if she wants to have it she can.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Ya know, I knew you were going to say that.
If they don’t want, can’t take care of children, they should not have them.
Personally, in this day and age, if I were still in child bearing years, I would not have children. I would get fixed.
We live in perilous times and I fear for our country and the direction it is headed. It would be selfish to bring children into this world at this time, unless they have already been conceived and then you can only hope and have faith that God will keep them in his care!
However, if they were to be called home early, I will know where they are and that I will see them again. It’s not what I would want, but I know there is hope.
Let there be no mistake in what I am saying here.
Prevention not execution.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Ya, I agree. I don’t think execution is the answer.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Does the child hacker see humans as chattel?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0