A nation without borders is no nation at all. After decades of misguided policies America has now become a free-for-all. Our leaders betrayed the middle class which is forced to compete with welfare-receiving illegal immigrants who will work for almost anything, just because the standards in their home countries are even lower.
If these policies are not reversed, the future is grim. A poor, dependent and divided population is much easier to rule than a nation of self-confident individuals who can make a living on their own and who share the traditions and values that this country was founded upon.
Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:
- Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
- Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
- No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
- No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
- End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
- Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
The facts on the ground are being created right now. Every day that passes makes it more difficult to reverse the damage that has already been done.
I’m sure Ron Paul is familiar with the Bible “Gold Onion.”
As are many people. The bible is very clear of what kind of future awaits us all.
The question is.. can we(humanity) change our destiny?
I believe we can..
And i know Ron Paul believes we can..
Ron Paul has the solution on the economy and he even wrote a book, it’s called…
“End The Fed”
The world needs people keeping the fruits of their labor NOT…
people becoming wealthy with printed money…
It is the a worthless currency that creates most of our problems including immigration!
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Nothing against Ron Paul, but a book written over 2000 years ago “predicted” the current economy, current border security issues, etc., etc.. The end of the story is in the last chapter. All anyone can do is fight the good fight. Since childhood, I have been taught about this hour we are in. As was taught to family generations before me. Never would have guessed I would be the one to witness this day. America has always had the “Play Book.” It’s part of our heritage. I suggest a reread (or read) for all. Look to the heavens, our time draws near.
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You cannot protect liberty without first protecting the value of the money.
Central Banks in other Nations have completely destroyed their currencies and the people have lost everything.
The #1 reason people come to the United States is because their currency is made worthless.
The United States has set a bad example around the world in this regard.
A private Central Bank is allowed to print as much money as they please.
The consequences of printing too much money too quickly results in a tremendous loss of value or destruction of a currency.
Immigrants coming to the United States illegally have nothing and are ignorant of why their economy collapsed.
The American people in general are ignorant of the negative impact the U.S. Central bank has on the economy.
We are facing an economic crisis and its important to addresss the problem.
Anybody who has been following Ron Paul knows what the problem is.
Ron Paul focuses on Monetary and Foreign Policy.
I’ve been following Ron Paul for a few years now.. and this is what he focuses on.. I believe he’s right on track…
Yes, Ron Paul’s views on immigration are clear, but it’s also clear that this country’s financial crisis didn’t come as a result of immigration…
According to Ron, it came from a money printing press being used in secret..
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This is perhaps the only issue that Ron Paul betrays the principle of liberty (his stance in not in accordance with Libertarian principles – it’s no wonder why he seldom presses this issue).
As a person who believes in liberty I can not support his stance. Walls and troops do nothing to solve the real ‘problem’, which isn’t peaceful human beings crossing an imaginary line to improve their lives, it’s a combination of labor laws (i.e, minimum wage, unemployment taxes, etc) along with the welfare state that court cheap foreign labor. That is the true culprit, the welfare state and government controlled labor markets – not peaceful people. Most of the rants from these do gooder, ‘I’m-a-real-American-and-your-not-na-ni-nah-ni-boo-boo’, idiots lament what these so called “invaders” are doing to the State coffers (since when did ‘conservatives’ care so much about the welfare state?).
Yet rather than debate the merits of the welfare state and government controlled markets that create the magnet for cheap illegal labor – the only thing politicians (R. Paul one of them) can come up with is to build a fucking fence and post a thousand poor 18 year old G.I Joes out in the desert?? That’s really going to work – give me a break. Hate to imagine the cost that will be to tax payers – a whole lot more than illegal immigrants cost to government. But at least we get something out of illegal immigration, cheap produce, cheap houses, cheap manual labor, etc – what the fuck do we get out of a fence and thousands troops running around the desert, aside from a huge bill??
In truth the whole ‘they’re a drain on our state’ bullshit is just an excuse to cower behind xenophobic prejudice. These assholes complain immigrants are getting tax support but don’t pay any taxes (which is false, they do pay taxes, 8 million even pay federal taxes), but yet there is seemingly no problem for American citizens, who do not pay any federal taxes due to low income exemption, and are even bigger ‘drain’ on the welfare state?? Why do American citizens who do not pay any federal taxes and get more federal aide than illegal immigrants get off the hook? At least with illegal immigrants we get quantifiable returns, the fact that we pay a fraction of the cost we would be paying absent of illegal labor is a testament to that?
And what the fuck about the thousands, perhaps millions, of Americans who are working for money paid “underneath the table” so that they don’t pay federal taxes? This is totally illegal labor – the same heinous crime they accuse Mexican illegals of doing everyday. Is the inquisition going to go after them too? Or are the exempt, as well?
No one wants to grant these guys ‘amnesty’ like they committed some really terrible crime like murder – all they did was cross an imaginary line to work a job nobody wanted. Nobody gave a shit when President Ford granted ‘amnesty’ to 20,000 Vietnam War draft dodgers who were hiding out in Canada – but OMG, to grant amnesty to the fucking tomato pickers, how fucking terrible. Or what about the millions of drivers in America who break traffic laws every day, so much so that Police can only partially enforce the law by selectively determining who they should pull over –and for the ones they do, half of them get a fucking verbal warning!! That’s not amnesty?? Get the fuck out of here!
What these do gooder, ‘True Patriot’, S.O.B’s don’t like is brown poor people who don’t speak English – there is nothing more terrifying to these idiots then this. I mean if illegal immigrants were blond haired with big tits do you think anybody would give a shit?
Either you believe in freedom or you don’t (if you don’t, do not try to pretend like you do). The Libertarian Party is the only party that truly believes in liberty. For a better stance on the issue of immigration from those who believe in liberty, click on the following link: http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration
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Money…
That’s the problem and the solution in this world for many issues…
Most issues come about as a result of money problems…
Immigration is one of those issues…
How’s money created and who has the power to created it?
The answer… “Private” (think secretive) Central Banks print the currency of a Nation..
Printing too much money to quickly destroys the value of money..
and the result is massive immigration of those who lost everything to a corrupt
world banking system..
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In 2005 the Libertarian Party flip flopped on it’s position on immigration.
First the Libertarians were simply for open borders. Then when everyone saw an army of illegal mexicans marching in the streets waving Communist flags the Libertarian Party made “adjustments” to their talking points and more “adjustments” to their Party Platform. That’s when I noticed how hypocritical the Libertarians are and felt foolish myself for identifying with them.
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This is for our Latin American friends who are also doing their best to make a valuable contribution to America’s production and prosperity. The rest of you can find the English posted on the other blogs here, and i hope the Spanish translation came out correctly.
Immigration a problem ? I think not. Imagine how many more of these good people we will need in order to fill our need for labor to meet the production capacity which will be generated when we get rid of THE problem, which is our Banks.
_____________________________
Hola de nuevo Ross:)
Bueno en este punto, en vez de poner los números y las estadísticas frente a la gente, me he estado concentrando mis esfuerzos en simplemente hacer que tomen conciencia de algunas de las ideas y conceptos esenciales para establecer la libre economía y la prosperidad abundante que tienen derecho, la cosas que han impedido hasta el momento presente y darles las ideas que tienen que pensar en el fin de motivarlos para que esto suceda por sí mismos.
Lo que necesitamos es a alguien aquí, que es mejor para encontrar y comparar las estadísticas de los EE.UU. de lo que soy a colocarlas aquí para que podamos completar los conceptos que con ellos también, pero entonces las estadísticas como ésta ni siquiera se acercan a la ilustración la gravedad del problema, bien y aquí está la realidad de la misma y las estadísticas reales como efecto de la persona promedio en Estados Unidos hoy. Todo el mundo sabe la situación actual a través de su propia experiencia, y tengo un sobrino que trabaja como oficial de policía en una ciudad cerca de mí aquí, y su situación sería típico de la gran mayoría de las personas que viven y trabajan en la mayoría de las ciudades norteamericanas. Su sueldo bruto es de alrededor de 40.000 dólares al año, lo que equivaldría a unos $ 3,300.00 al mes. Fuera de eso, más de 2.000 dólares va al banco cada mes en la hipoteca y los pagos de interés de su casa para que pueda mantener un lugar para vivir y para los próximos 30 años. De los $ 1.300 que queda, suponiendo un nivel de impuesto sobre la renta del 20%, otro 600,00 dólares va al gobierno para que puedan pagar a los bancos para la creación de la moneda que necesitan para funcionar el que deberían haber creado para nosotros y de ellos mismos, dejándolo con $ 700,00. De esa otra 700,00 dólares sube 49,00 dólares en impuestos de venta para financiar el gobierno del estado que también prestará el dinero para sus operaciones de los bancos. De los 651,00 dólares que dejó por lo menos $ 100,00 a mes va en impuestos a la propiedad que tiene que pagar para mantener su lugar para vivir, que va a la provincia y gobierno de la ciudad que de nuevo el préstamo de dinero para sus operaciones de los bancos. Esto finalmente lo deja con sólo 551,00 dólares para gastar y se inyecta de nuevo en circulación a fin de generar la producción de útiles que pueden beneficiarse a sí mismo y el resto de nosotros.
Total de ingresos mensuales:
$ 3,300.00
Total consumida por los bancos y por los bancos para comprar el poder y la propiedad de los Estados Unidos y su población por sí solas:
$ 2,749.00
Total se gasta en la economía para generar una producción útil para el beneficio de la población estadounidense:
$ 551.00
Esto es lo que tenemos, y eso es lo que los bancos tienen. ¿Hay una sola f’ing cualquier idiota puede creer y se puede tratar de explicar cómo un sistema puede ser sostenible, o beneficiarse con la gente que está destinado a servir?
¿Cuál sería el nivel de vida de todos y cada persona en Estados Unidos hoy si no tuviéramos los bancos y los gobiernos que establecen, que ni construir nada, nada ni nadie fijar los piensos, 5/6ths consumir. de nuestra capacidad para pagar y generar una producción útil para nuestro propio beneficio?
6 veces más de lo que es hoy.
¿A quién la economía norteamericana actual y la clase política existe para servir?
Eso lo dejo para que todos puedan responder por sí mismos.
Ross, hágamelo saber cómo esto se compara con la situación en Australia, todos los demás saquen sus chequeras y las calculadoras, y esta cifra a cabo por sí mismos. A continuación, copiar, pegar y reenviar este hilo a absolutamente todos los que conozcas para que puedan hacer lo mismo.
Gracias de nuevo Ross:)
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Fellow Americans,
Many Arizona Residents supporting the new immigration are angry that “illegal” immigration is costing the state about $2 Billion a year. Some politicians say $1 Billion and i’ve heard another politician say $3 Billion. I guess for most republican politicians having the facts straight isn’t their main concern, their main concern is getting the people angry and supporting them.
Immigration is on the spotlight now because we are facing an economic crisis. People losing their jobs, can’t find jobs, and many americans are hurting right now. Unemployment is high in this country as we speak. Arizona’s politicians who created the immigration law believe they are dealing witht the culprit draining the economy. Couldn’t be further from the TRUTH.
For the past couple of years i’ve noticed Ron Paul hasn’t really pushed the whole immigration issue. Ron Paul makes videos on a regular basis and he hasn’t spent much time on the issue. So what has Ron Paul focused on for the past couple of years?
Foreign policy and monetary policy.
We have a monetary policy that has failed time and time again. And we are no where near fixing it. Instead the American population is being distracted with the whole immigration issue.
Arizona worries about $1-3 Billion.. Ron Paul worries about the $1 or more Trillions the Fed has created.
Ron Paul worries about the Dollar losing its value..
Ron Paul worries about The Federal Reserve Central Bank making deals with Foreign Central Banks, and governments…
Ron Paul worries about the secretive Federal Reserve Bank bailing out businesses and banks..
Ron Paul worries The Federal Reserve buying up worthless assests and mal investments..
Ron Paul admitted illegal immigrants has become the scapegoat..
Ron Paul worries about $ Trillions being spent on the “war” (invasion) of other countries…
Ron Paul worries about the 900 plus bases in 100 plus countries..
Do you think people in another country might recent having foreign military bases in their land? How would the American people feel China having military Bases stationed in various parts of this country?
These are far greater and more impactful issues we are no where near solving, on the contrary, these issues might be getting worse…
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Fantastic post as always Alfred. We need to be attacking the culprits instead of the scapegoat. Immigration is not our problem, Banks are our problem, and as i’ve said before, if we don’t kill off the parasites before they destroy us completely, then the illegals will simply go home of their own accord as things will be no better here than where they came from.
Alfred, get on the sound money blog, we need you there. Come help us make this happen.
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I fully support what’s going on in Arizona. The law there is just what this country needs.
Ron Paul is the only one who is willing to uphold our laws.
What will it take for Ron Paul to run for president?
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Hello FreedomFighter……………………….
So do you really understand the law and how it is being enforced, or do you just hate Mexicans???
It is one thing to ask for proof of legal status when someone is under arrest for an actual crime, but to be profiled and forced to present id willy-nilly is absolutly unjust.
No matter how bad something is, it is never justifiable to violate our freedom, or undermind our civil rights.
To allow such laws is to shoot ourselves in the foot. Mark my words this will come back to haunt us.
Law and order do not always equal justice. Think about it.
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Err…. I don’t know if you realized it yet…. but I am a Mexican-American. I understand what it will mean, but we must understand that Illegal is a word for a reason.
I am sorry for taking so long to reply, but I too feel the impact, we have to regain control of our country before we actually allow anymore illegal immigrants to worsen the situation.
I had the luck chance of being born in American, but now I am going to have to fight along with millions of other people to retain the freedom that our forefathers established.
In case you haven’t noticed, our freedoms are being taken away from us, and so is our privacy.
Ron Paul is a logical and sensible choice, besides he is the one who is not afraid to speak the truth and is the best choice for the best interest of the American people.
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“I had the luck chance of being born in American, but now I am going to have to fight along with millions of other people to retain the freedom that our forefathers established.”
Good statement and we all do as well. Your a natural born Mexican American, and i’m a naturalized German American, and we both have the will and the dedication to defend those freedoms, so that makes us both simply “AMERICANS”
Anyway, the dire threat we are facing is not so much immigration but our Banks who have pretty much bled this country dry and established complete and total control over our political system and process in order to enable them to do so. If we don’t kill these parasites they will destroy us and those freedoms and then all other issues wont matter much anymore. Both Machine and myself are active on the “Sound Money” blog on this site where many of us are putting our efforts into doing just that. We need all the help we can get too.
Get on there, read through some of the posts so you know what were trying to motivate, and then come help us do it. I expect that if were successful the prosperity which will be generated for all of us will be so enormous that we’ll be begging people from Mexico to help us meet our production demands as there wont be enough people here to do it all. Would love to see that too, their good people, all of the ones i’ve met and would be nice to give them a chance with our own prosperity as well, but we do need to kill the parasites that prevent it in order to be free to create it for ourselves.
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Hi Machine, Hi Freedom Fighter;
Well, i have read the text of the Arizona law, and it does establish the need for the law enforcement officer to make “Legal Contact” prior to checking a persons immigration status where suspicion exists. To my knowledge this means that he does have to catch the person in the commission of a crime first in order to check immigration status, and as long as this is followed, then i think we can all support it.
If it comes to stopping people on the street for no reason to check their ID then i would strongly object to it as would machine, but from what i can tell it doesn’t authorize that at all.
I like your statements Machine:
“No matter how bad something is, it is never justifiable to violate our freedom, or undermind our civil rights. ”
“Law and order do not always equal justice. Think about it”
Ben Franklin paraphrased that as well:
“Those who would sacrifice freedom for the sake of security, deserve neither freedom nor security”
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The AZ immigration law is a symptom of a larger problem with US law. (There is no America any longer, there is no Constitution. Those things are dead, whether they were good, or whether they were bad.)
US law no longer prohibits what is wrong, with reasons for why it is is wrong, and a clear system of defense. It prohibits all kinds of actions for no valid reason except prevailing majority opinion.
Someone who crosses a border has not aggressed against anyone else. Therefore they have done nothing wrong. Did they upset a jingoist xenophobe somewhere? Sure. But did they violate anyone else’s rights? No.
But why does Ron Paul have a different standard when it comes to immigration than he has when it comes to other victimless crime laws? I’ll answer that question after I compare Ron Paul’s stances on several other victimless crime issues to his stance on the victimless crime issue of immigration.
1) Drugs: the drug laws are illegitimate, because, stemming from a view of property rights and personal freedom (which includes property rights -amendment 4, the right to privacy -amendment 3-4, due process amendment -6-7-8, and free speech -amendment 1), laws that violate such freedoms are illegitimate and should not be obeyed.
2) Guns: the gun laws are illegitimate, because, stemming from a view of property rights and personal freedom (which includes property rights -amendments 2-4, the right to self-defense -amendment 2, the right to privacy -amendment 3-4, due process amendment -6-7-8, and free speech -amendment 1), laws that violate such freedoms are illegitimate and should not be obeyed.
3) Seat belt laws, mandatory insurance laws, mandatory tax ID and driver-licensing: the seat belt laws are illegitimate, because, stemming from a view of property rights and personal freedom (which includes property rights -amendments 2-4, the right to self-defense -amendment 2, the right to privacy -amendment 3-4, due process amendment -6-7-8, and free speech -amendment 1), laws that violate such freedoms are illegitimate and should not be obeyed.
4) All “victimless crime laws” or “mala prohibita”: these laws are illegitimate, because, stemming from a view of property rights and personal freedom (which includes property rights -amendments 2-4, the right to self-defense -amendment 2, the right to privacy -amendment 3-4, due process amendment -6-7-8, and free speech -amendment 1, and the decentralization of power to the states and the individuals within the states -amendment 9-10), laws that violate such freedoms are illegitimate and should not be obeyed.
All of the prior are actually contained within #4 as well. This heirarchy of political belief places the individual JURY MEMBER at the top of the heirarchy, ABOVE:
1) The president and his police and “enforcers”
2) Congress
3) All the judges and prosecutors (that make up one giant mass of metaphorical squirming leeches)
So why does a smart man named Ron Paul have a philosophically-inconsistent view when it comes to immigration?
1) Fear of loss of constitutional borders and resultant death/disorder/chaos: Some people think the view is legitimate, because the view that is consistent with individual freedom doesn’t work when it comes to immigration. After all, the very survival of the nation is at stake, right? Wrong. Politicians (like Ron Paul) are no more correct here than elsewhere. They simply have been taught that we need a country to manage us like livestock, and so they have not embraced “laissez faire”. In truth, order is emergent, and it is not a gift from any Constitution. The only valid function the Constitution performs is to limit the power of the government it creates. …But if other things limit that power better, then they are more legitimate than the constitution to the extent they are successful (especially since, say, anarchist gunfire, jury trials, and civil disobedience don’t attempt to create a taxation structure, but the Constitution did).
2) Remaining politically-viable. Most people are too stupid to fully-understand the prior point. For them, life without a government or Constitution is unthinkable, and they haven’t thought through the issue of jury trials. This is not a crime, and these are not bad people, like most voters, but they are voters nonetheless. By using weak and self-contradictory political language, Paul can appease them, and bring them on board. This adds another demographic to his support base (even though it sadly eliminates another, larger demographic at the same time, that eliminated Demographic has a comfortable –if stupid– home in the Democratic Party).
Combine #1 and #2 above, and that’s why Paul is “anti-illegal-immigration”. (Which amounts to being in favor of the drug war, gun control, etc., so long as the victims are Mexican, politically unorganized, and don’t speak much English.)
Ron Paul’s incoherent and “politically motivated” stance on immigration: 1) We shouldn’t blame the immigrants, we should blame the broken welfare state and the banking system that brings them here. (cheers!) 2) But we should enforce the border (little mention of how this can be done without violating individual rights). (cheers from the uninformed demographic! and some fairly-uneducated “Constitutionalists”) 3) But we shouldn’t enforce the border too harshly, or violate the rights of anyone doing so. (cheers! …Even though this contradicts #2) 4) Implicit in this stance is that there is no assumed “right to travel”. (no cheers, because this remains unspoken!)
–Now, anyone who knows their ass from a hole in the ground (and most people here actually fit somewhat into this category) knows that the government is evil by default, because it engages in the collective application of force as its only solution to problems. This leads to what is called “the Law of Unintended Consequences”. (The law states that due to people trying to get around the threat of force, the result of any law will be the opposite of its intended effect. For instance,alcohol prohibition led to robust black market distribution systems that expanded the supply of alcohol even though distribution and consumption was illegal, and more alcohol-related violence because of this distribution system –as well as less regulated dosage of the black market booze.) A great book was written about this law called “Unintended Consequences” by John Ross.
So how do we bring these demographics of Ron Paul’s together?
JURY RIGHTS.
NO LAW CAN BE ENFORCED WITHOUT A PROPER* JURY TRIAL IN A FREE COUNTRY.
SIMPLE.
By proper, the Founders meant:
1) No “voir dire” (prosecutorial jury selection, or other interference with the randomness of the jury)
2) No selection of state-sympathetic rubber stamps or “conformists” for the jury. (calling only people who are agents of the state, etc…)
3) No judicial instruction
4) No licensing of lawyers
This way, let’s say an illegal immigrant has a deportation hearing. But one of the people on the jury is a hardcore libertarian like me. So I vote “NOT GUILTY” and convince the other jurors to do the same. The defendant goes free, the law goes down in flames by way of the doctrine of “jury nullification of law”.
This last point is incredibly important. All of Ron Paul’s other ideas and political opinions hinge on this issue.
If we had proper jury trials, Ron Paul would have 95% of his ideas implemented. The only ideas of his that would not be implemented would be the inconsistent ones (abortion and immigration).
In the old days, slaves knew that if they made it to Massachusetts or Chicago, no jury would return them to the South. Perhaps the same will be true of immigrants today. Jury trials decentralize the power of decision-making to the people, and hence, they limit the power of centralized government.
Juries –if we are able to reinstate them– are the supreme check on government power, because they limit the power of the state to punish, and the power of the state to punish is its ENTIRE power.
Individual Freedom, Peace.
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I’ve always wondered if my idea would work.
Yes it is true that all the immigrants that came here illegally but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be granted some form of amnesty. I understand they broke the law, but many of them had no future in their countries. These aren’t the rich people coming from Mexico, Guatemala or El Salvador; these are people that had no alternative and had to find something better for themselves. I agree however that some immigrants do take advantage of the system and rely on government financial assistance to get by; this isn’t the American way. I also recognize that some of these immigrants cause crimes such as homicides, hit and runs etc. but that doesn’t mean all immigrants are like this.
This is why throughout the years I’ve wondered why doesn’t the government make an agency of some sort with government workers whose job it is to investigate individual immigrants (or the whole family) and do background checks, interviews or other stuff that would qualify them as valuable, respectable citizens that haven’t caused trouble by breaking laws. If they pass the requirements they would pay a large fee (which can be used to fund the program) and then be granted citizenship. This way I think everyone wins because those immigrants that don’t qualify due to their repetitive law breaking would be kicked out.
This type of program would open jobs up for those that would fulfill the posts of the government official interviewing each immigrant.
Please Ron Paul if you read this think about it a bit more.
Thanks.
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“A nation without borders is no nation at all. ”
So, without borders, there could be no regional police and courts, separated not by impassable “borders”, but by jurisdictions –relevant only if a problem arises? Those local jurisdictions could not provide for a trial by jury after prisoners –whose identity perhaps remains unknown– who have committed “mala in se” crimes have waited in jail for their court date?
This lack of imagination of a better alternative world from Ron Paul supporters is truly alarming. This level of imagination does not require artilect-level intelligence (the term ‘artilect’ is used to describe superhuman intelligences being built in China by Artificial General Intelligence researcher Hugo de Garis). It requires only the intelligence that most libertarians possess.
Interestingly, all of the people here who favor tightening border security are the same people who unknowingly are willing to undercut dishonest (but possibly successful) libertarian strategy by reverting to a failing or “compromise” philosophy. Most libertarians have historically favored open borders. Desiring more border security is a conservative perversion of the libertarian philosophy (a virus inserted into good code).
Why is it that when we win on an issue, we fail to claim victory and dance in the streets? This is what winning political parties do. They claim victory when they win one. (Take a look at Reason.tv for the appropriate response…)
At every event that La Raza throws (in favor of reinstating proud Aztec heritages like ‘mass human sacrifice’, and pant-hooting for socialism and welfarism, and denigrating economic freedom as “Reagan heartlessness”), we should be partying right along with them, with signs that say “Capitalists for Open Borders!” (To be fair, that was a charicature of La Raza and some of their more inane members.)
The fact that this does not happen (very much) grossly undermines our chances of political victory. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that we’re a movement of people that doesn’t want to win, if it means getting our hands dirty, or doing the work of loudly proclaiming victory in DC.
…laptop revolutionaries.
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There are still many people who don’t understand how the current banking system actually works. It’s ignorance and the unwillingness to learn something new that is creating the world we live in.
Money makes the world go round. Everyone works for money.
How’s money created?
Congressman Ron Paul predicted the economic crisis before it hit in 2008. Since then I have followed Ron Paul’s videos and blogs.
Most people in the country were surprised when the crisis came about.
Immigration is an issue but that is not why we are having an economic crisis.
Ron Paul knew and explains it almost everytime his on the news.. the source of th problem comes from a printing press controlled in secret by the Federal Reserve Bank.
It’s not only this country with this problem. Almost every country in the world has a “private” Central Bank.
Central Banks in 0ther countries have printed money recklessly and destroyed the value of their currency. The rich got richer and the middle class wiped out creating mass poverty.
This is why people are coming to the U.S. Even though the dollar is losing value and I can only buy a small meal for $5 here in the U.S. $5 dollars in another might be a day’s salary for many.
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Hi Alfred, i really do like your posts, and absolutely everything like this is working too, their getting into the hands of an awful lot of people by now and i dont think it will be very long before the majority of the American population understands these things and what we need to do as well.
Lol you noticed that once again “the other david” could not defend his post on the banking system so then he switched over to trying to distract people by trying to scare them with the immigration issue, and not one word of his latest was relevant to my reply to his first ? LOL. That’s the only thing they can do as well as their position is indefensible and all that is left is to try and scare people into thinking they need them and then try and distract them from the things they need to do by scaring them about other things.
His post on the illegal worker thing consists of a lot of lies like everything else, the reason America is being bankrupted is because of banks issuing and controlling currency and credit and for no other reason, this is the single and only objective of a bank to, to bankrupt so they can claim ownership. I live in an area where there are a lot of farms and it is close to the Mexican border as well. We do have more than a few illegals here, but none of them have jobs at this point, there was one huge farming corporation which got greedy, and started to hire them for much less than the others are required to pay the ones who come in with work visas to provide the legitimate farm labor. The border patrol caught them and they were fined $ 10,000.00 for each illegal worker they had hired which was pretty much all of them, the corporation went bankrupt and it no longer exists, so i think that problem is already handled pretty much as well as it can be, leaving us free to worry about more important things. The Mexicans who are here on work visas, are performing a vital function for the remaining farms in that just as he says, no one who was born here would be willing to do their jobs, due to the nature of the work and especially for their pay. I’m trying to imagine the level of envy that possesses this guy, that he would wish to deny them the tiny little bit that they can earn doing the backbreaking work that they do while living in tents, bunkhouses and orchards, while providing a very useful service to the American people, when just as he says, no one here is willing to do their jobs anyway. I guess he would rather see them starve as they do where they come from and almost do working here as well, than allow them to have just a tiny little bit in exchange for providing something that we need.
In any event, if he and his masters were to have their way, before too long the American people would be in the same position as these poor Mexican farm workers, and then there will simply be no reason for them to come here anymore. The simple fact is though that America is the land of the free and the home of the brave, and its population doesn’t scare as easily as those of the rest of the world. They are slowly but surely figuring out what they need to do in order to save themselves and give themselves what they should have had all along and the simple fact that he is here is evidence that he and his masters are living in absolute terror of them and the fact that what you and i are doing is working.
Thanks again Alfred
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Congratulations to my namesake for being able to navigate to other parts of this blog. So David here are some basic facts on removing illegals from the U.S.
There are an estimated 20 million illegals in the U.S. About 350,000 illegals are deported from the U.S. each year utilizing the existing tools (the numbers have actually increased significantly since Bush’s time). At that rate it will take 60 years to remove all illegals from the country – during which 60 years they will have replaced themselves ten times over anyway. It also cost close to fifty billion dollars to remove that 1.66% of illegal immigrants. So if Americans genuinely want to purge the country of its illegals without further bankrupting itself, it will have to take much, much harsher steps – I outlined realistic measures in my other post.
The second part of the problem is the work that illegals do in the U.S. People immigrate for reason one reason – economics. The massive immigration of illegals into the U.S. in the 2000 to 2006 period was because there were lots of employers looking for people who would work long and hard for low wages. The Republican president and the Republican Congress conveniently looked the other way.
It is estimated that sixty per cent of American farmworkers are illegals. People born in the US (including Hispanics) will not do farm work . It is not reasonable to expect the three hundred pound 45 year old guy to pick lettuce when he has difficulty tying his shoelaces. There are, however, millions of unemployed young people currently mooching off Mom and Dad who could learn how to do farm work. Do Americans want a continuing supply of cheap and plentiful food or do they want to add intensive agriculture to the list of thrown away industries – like making TV’s? If the former, US agriculture will have to be ensured a supply of labour to replace the illegals. Again the solution is decidedly unlibertarian; namely, that young Americans be conscripted (as they were once conscripted for the military) to do two years of farm labour.
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I see that my namesake is still bent on abolishing the banking system in the U.S. He is not the first person (or group) that has wanted to get rid of banking. David is following in the footsteps of the Communist Trotskyites in the USSR in the early 192o’s. He is also a follower of the radical Islamists of Arabia who also don’t believe in banking and believe that all interest should be illegal. Unfortunately even in Communist USSR it proved impossible to do away with banks. As to Arabia their posturing on banks is pure hypocrisy – they have banks but pretend they don’t.
When President Bush acted promptly to save the American banking system, he did it out of necessity. His choice was either to act quickly and use billions of public funds to save the banking system or let the entire economy collapse.
It wasn’t just American taxpayers who had to “bankroll” the banking system. Canada was the only G8 country where the banks did not have to be rescued. So while it was true that the banksters were one hundred per cent responsible for their problems, the economic system as a whole could not tolerate the complete collapse of the financial system. That is reality in a modern economy – particularly in a capitalist, free enterprise economy. It was the reality even in statist economies (of which David appears to be an advocate), although I do acknowledge that in the failed Communist nations of Eastern Europe the banking systems were always a much smaller part of the GDP than in the thriving economies of North America and Western Europe.
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LOLOLOL we’re really terrifying the crap out of your masters aren’t we ?
Oh this is wonderful, come on, give us some more. I think you’ve posted more than enough on the different blogs here for people to have figured out what you represent by now and its certainly not the interests of the American people. You don’t have anything new to say either do you, as you already made these same statements in another post to which i already responded. Your post and my response have been circulating among the population ever since, are probably in the hands of 50 million already and the response to them has been absolutely phenomenal. There’s no better thing you could possibly have done to help our cause.
Franklin on the other hand did represent the interests of the American people and was the first to establish what we’re proposing here, so this is nothing new. Public currency = free, abundant, and growing private enterprise system. Private currency and banks = capitalism (not free enterprise) with progressively diminishing freedom, abundance, and enterprise (except to the extent of private business being swallowed up by a few large bank sponsored corporations), evolving into socialism where the banks/state own everything and the people have nothing. All a person has to do is look at every other country in the world, and watch how things are progressing here in order to determine this, and no matter what you try to claim, the evidence is there right in front of everyone’s face.
In regards to Canada’s banks not collapsing well they have already achieved what ours are trying to accomplish here, where the entire country is owned lock stock and barrel by a few large banks and there is nothing to collapse them. Our banks did not collapse either, and this was just another scam for the large banks with the power ambitions to put the smaller ones out of business so their power could be absolute. How many people here had an account at a smaller banks like Washington Mutual and who’s bank is now owned by Chase ? Bush and Obama were simply complicit in this, and the final push is on now for them to take the last remaining wealth out of the hands of the population and establish another one of their great socialist utopia’s where even the people themselves are the property of the state, oops, the banks that own the state.
I’m going to posts some short statements here, the first involving Franklin and the economic system which “the other david” calls Communism, and the second detailing the plans and intent of the banking system he is defending.
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During a visit to Britain in 1763, The Bank of England asked Benjamin Franklin how he would account for the newfound prosperity in the colonies. Franklin replied.
“That is simple. In the colonies we issue our own money. It is called ‘Colonial Script’. We issue it in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers…In this manner, creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to no one.”
In response, the Bank of England influenced the British Parliament to put a stop to this activity. Under the Currency Act of 1764, King George III decreed that the Colonists cease printing their own money. The colonial script in circulation was to be exchanged at a two-to-one ratio with notes drawn from the Bank of England. This caused widespread unemployment and economic depression in the colonies.
“In one year, the conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity ended, and a depression set in, to such an extent that the streets of the Colonies were filled with unemployed.” (Benjamin Franklin)
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Now, in terms of your intentions and objectives, i will quote the statement made by Colonel Edward Mandell House, at a meeting between himself and president Woodrow Wilson, detailing the purpose of the banks in establishing the Federal Reserve which was enacted during Wilson’s presidency:
“[Very] soon, every American will be required to register their biological property in a national system designed to keep track of the people and that will operate under the ancient system of pledging. By such methodology, we can compel people to submit to our agenda, which will effect our security as a chargeback for our fiat paper currency. Every American will be forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living. They will be our chattel, and we will hold the security interest over them forever, by operation of the law merchant under the scheme of secured transactions.
Americans, by unknowingly or unwittingly delivering the bills of lading to us will be rendered bankrupt and insolvent, forever to remain economic slaves through taxation, secured by their pledges. They will be stripped of their rights and given a commercial value designed to make us a profit and they will be none the wiser, for not one man in a million could ever figure our plans and, if by accident one or two should figure it out, we have in our arsenal plausible deniability. After all, this is the only logical way to fund government, by floating liens and debt to the registrants in the form of benefits and privileges. This will inevitably reap to us huge profits beyond our wildest expectations and leave every American a contributor to this fraud which we will call “Social Insurance.” Without realizing it, every American will insure us for any loss we may incur and in this manner, every American will unknowingly be our servant, however begrudgingly. The people will become helpless and without any hope for their redemption and, we will employ the high office of the President of our dummy corporation to foment this plot against America.”
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I want everyone on here reading these to respond and tell us which one sounds more like communism to them.
The current economy should have collapsed but there was never any danger to the large banks and the whole damn thing was simply manufactured in order to get them $ 750,000,000,000.00 closer to the complete and total ownership of America. It’s only for the people of America that it has collapsed, has been getting progressively worse for years by now, and can only get much worse still. They know it and they also know that they have nothing to lose. Now all that’s left is for the people to destroy the banks that collapsed it, and seize what is rightfully ours from these banks it so that it will be they who have nothing and not us, and replace it with an economy that belongs to us not them, and that actually exists to benefit us and our country. Personally with my involvement in this, i’m going to try to motivate a peaceful economic rebellion as i think that this is the best way to come out of it with a more or less guaranteed result, but i wouldn’t mind at all if enough of the population simply got pissed enough to grab their rifles and storm wall street and Washington and start chopping off heads, and its very fast reaching the point where their getting angry enough to do it too. I do hope that even if we can resolve this peacefully through economic revolt, we can still criminalize banking retroactively where the people could go after the assets which have been stolen from them and hopefully be be putting bankers and the politicians who supported them on trial for their treason against the American people as well. They deserve no less.
Either way, you and your masters had better go to England or Canada, and go soon, because things aren’t going to be safe for you here much longer. Both myself and the majority of the American population would rather die than give you and your masters the power you crave, and there’s enough of us to win. The people have been stupid and careless enough to believe this crap for way too many years already, but now you’ve pushed them too far and their starting to think, and i’m finally seeing some really wonderful hope that your days are coming to an end. If so, then they will be thriving in freedom and with an abundance far great than anything they can possibly imagine now, and you and your kind will be starving in the streets, as all you can do is manipulate money and it wont be yours to manipulate any longer, it will be theirs, to whom it rightfully belongs. If you stay here, you may even end up in prison or on death row, for your schemes and plots to prevent them from being so, i’ll certainly do everything in my power to promote such and end as well.
BTW, why did you post this on the Border Security blog ? What does this have to do with border Security ?, why not come to the sound money blog try to fool people there into believing your lies ? I know i’ve been trying to draw attention to the problem of you and your masters on other blogs by relating it to the other problems at hand, and your kind has created pretty much all of them as well, but you make absolutely no mention of border security or immigration or anything relevant to this topic in your post. Were you hoping i wouldn’t find this and respond ?
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There’s nothing new under the sun, only the history we don’t know.”
I heard someone wise once mention this quote. It stuck with me. When we don’t know history, we are doomed to repeat it.
“After the 1994–1995 economic crisis (mexico), probably the most severe in the country’s history, 50% of the population fell into poverty.”
source: Economy of Mexico
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico
How did 50% or more fall into poverty?
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
“The [privately-owned] Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly
hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution…
if the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their
currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations
that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property
until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers
conquered.”
Central Banks are set up all over the world and are known to make deals with each other. Thomas Jefferson believed that “Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.”
When is America going to wake up? When 50% of Americans have fallen into poverty? The best thing we can do is educate ourselves about private Central Banking systems. There’s alot of info on this website. And sharing this info with others is crucial to one day truly protecting liberty.
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Yeah, this is dead on.
What Jefferson and others of his time understood is that Banks exist as parasites and contribute absolutely nothing to useful production, and an economic system designed to serve banks must eventually collapse on itself simply due to the fact that they introduce currency as debt and always take out more than they put in, allowing them to progressively accumulate property and assets until there is absolutely nothing left for anyone else. We are rapidly approaching that point as we speak.
Not only do we need to destroy the central banking system, but we need to destroy all banking period, and criminalize any form of private interest on money in order to establish a free, prosperous and sustainable economy, where money exists simply and only to facilitate useful production and cannot be used in and of itself to make money or establish power as it already has. Currency is a public asset used and necessary to each and every person in the entire population and therefore it must be under absolute and total public control, and freely produced and managed for the sole and exclusive benefit of the entire population as well, and if it isn’t, it will used by private interests (Banks) to destroy us just as it is about to do. Franklin and the colonies had this figured out prior to the revolution and established prosperity unheard of in the entire history of the world. Unfortunately by the time that was done the British Banks has so infiltrated themselves into the new government that they were given control of the currency, which control was exactly what had set off the revolution in the first place, and since have managed to kill every president who has attempted to restore what Franklin had established at that time.
Its about bloody time that Americans do wake up, and realize the urgency of their need to act, and re establish an economy and currency which exists for their sole and exclusive benefit. This will not be accomplished politically due to the absolute control the banks have established over our political system, but the population still does have the power to force this to happen, as the entire system is contingent on them continuing to pay, both in the form of interest and taxes, and if they just all stop at once the objective can be accomplished.
The good thing is that more and more are beginning to figure this out as we speak, and this has been the objective of many of us on the sound money blog, just to forward information, posts like this, and get them into circulation among the general public and get them thinking in terms of something that could actually work for both their economic benefit and eliminate the single dire threat to their freedom that exists today as well. We do need to swallow that tablespoon of kerosene and dislodge that miserable tape worm from our system, as it is consuming our sustenance faster than we can eat at this point, and we can no longer eat enough to feed both it and ourselves. Until now the tape worm has managed to convince most of our population that it is a natural part of their system and they cannot survive without it, but more and more are beginning to realize that it doesn’t belong there, and how simple and easy our lives could be without it. Hopefully there will be enough to bring this about.
Anyway, if you haven’t started doing this already, do help us get the information out there. I’m going to be cross posting this to the sound money blog and forwarding it to everyone on my email list and letting it circulate from there, and i’ll ask everyone who agrees with this to do the same. Thanks.
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“There’s nothing new under the sun, only the history we don’t know.”
I heard someone wise once mention this quote. It stuck with me. When we don’t know history, we are doomed to repeat it.
“After the 1994–1995 economic crisis (mexico), probably the most severe in the country’s history, 50% of the population fell into poverty.”
source: Economy of Mexico
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico
How did 50% or more fall into poverty?
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
“The [privately-owned] Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly
hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution…
if the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their
currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations
that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property
until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers
conquered.”
Central Banks are set up all over the world and are known to make deals with each other. Thomas Jefferson believed that “Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.”
Can you see why Thomas Jefferson strongly opposed a private central bank?
People who seek education and work hard deserve a better life. People all over the world want to pursue happiness. There’s enough wealth for everyone. We don’t need to fight over land, or anthing else. Unfortunately, we can’t get that kind of peace without first protecting the value of money, at home and abroad.
America wants to spread freedom around the world? Great!!
how can we do that? We can’t even protect the value of our currency~
Some might say.. well, the dollar is worth more than most currencies around the world. That’s true but its irrelevant. Unless an American plans to swap american dollars for Mexican pesos and spend it in Mexico.. it doesn’t matter. Prices for everything is going up here at home.. where most people will spend their dollars.
If we don’t educate ourselves on this and then educate the world.. we will continue to fight meaningless wars.
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Cross posting from the National ID Card blog. This should give anyone who doesn’t know yet an idea of who “The Other David” really is.
_________________________
The Other David
June 13, 2010 at 6:13 pm | Permalink | Reply Report comment Report comment
A national identification pregram is the first step towards deporting illegal immigrants. There is no other practical way of identifying and separating legal residents and illegal immigrants. It is not legitimate to complain about illegal immigrants if there is no effective plan to remove these people from the country. Cutting them off state services such as medical care and schooling will just force these people to live outside the law – it will not make them leave. Forcefully deporting twenty million people is of course a huge undertaking. People can not just be individually marched to the border; they will have to be collected into camps concentrated in key areas around the country and then removed by mass transportation – buses, trains, army vehicles, etc. It will not be possible to carry out such a program (it will take a couple of years) without the temporary suspension (for everyone) of some of the rights and freedoms Americans might take for granted.
…………………………………………………………….
David
June 26, 2010 at 1:05 pm | Permalink | Reply Report comment Report comment
OMG, can anyone believe this guy ?
“It will not be possible to carry out such a program (it will take a couple of years) without the temporary suspension (for everyone) of some of the rights and freedoms Americans might take for granted.”
I will simply quote Ben Franklin in response to this.
“Those who would sacrifice freedom for the sake of security deserve neither freedom nor security’
In response to Clay’s comment, he does not belong in Mexico but in the former Soviet Union, which is now extinct, and i dont think there is a country in this world where he actually belongs, for as bad as some of them are, he is worse.
His statement is an outright lie as well, i’m in an area where the potential for hiring an illegal immigrant is great, and both i and everyone else around here has more than enough means to determine legal status before we hire. Green cards, resident cards, drivers licenses (which if the person is present here and does not have the right to work here, will state so), all of which will more than satisfy the border patrol if they check on hiring practices.
Bottom line is that a national ID card is a means of keeping track of and maintaining data on citizens by a police state, in order to determine and deal with any potential threats to their power. Since this guy has been repeatedly trying to defend America’s banking system which craves and is trying to establishexactly such power, and can’t defend his posts on same, he’s involving himself in the immigration issue now in order to try and distract people from the real threat and problem.
If were going to set up Nazi or communist style concentration camps then let it be for the Bankers who have committed acts of treason against the United States and its population by manipulating our economy and gaining control of our political system against the interests of the American people. Personally id have no desire for this though, simply kill them for their treason, and seize their assets and return what we can to the population from which they have been stolen (i tried to estimate this amount on the sound money blog awhile back and if my calculations are anywhere close it comes out to about $ 500,000.00 owing to each American at this point). Then establish a Ben Franklin style economy, without the benefit of banks designed to maximize useful production and the prosperity of the American population.
An awful lot of people are beginning to figure out the lies they’ve been fed and the need for this by now and the banks must be living in absolute terror of us, if they are desperate enough to send people like this around to blogs like this in order to try and defend their interests. I don’t expect that there are too many on here who would actually be foolish enough to believe him, and from what i’m seeing at this point, it seems that his days are also numbered, and he and those he defends are about to be destroyed by the single and only population in the world who understand and values freedom to the extent where they will do whatever they must in order to maintain it. If not, then they will destroy us instead, and this is where 100 % of everyone’s efforts need to be concentrated right now.
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Rolling on the floor and laughing my ass off. This guy has been repeatedly criticizing everyone else’s spelling, grammar and syntax, and i just spotted this in his post which i just re-posted here.
Look how he spells program “pregram”. It’s not a typo either, the o and the e at opposite sides of the keyboard. This is absolutely hilarious LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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This Message has more to do with immigration than you might think.
Thanks to Ron Paul I have learned to understand how the Central Banking System works here at home. After a couple of years of listening to Ron Paul lecturing the Chairman of the U.S. Central Bank aka the Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke, it has lead me to learned how other Nations have been brought to their knees economically. The reckless printing of money by Central Banks in Nations around the world have destroy the healthy function of the economy. Day by Day we are slowly witnessing the devaluation of the dollar. If we don’t educate ourselves and lead others to the right information, the patient will die. The dying patient being the collapse of our economy. We might be the last to fall since the U.S. has the world reserve currency and the mightiest military of our time but that’s not what anyone wants.. right? Immigrants come here illegally because their Nation did not protect the value of their money.
Those people were once considered middle class. After the economy collapse most of the middle class is wiped out. In this Century alone many people have gone through a collapse in their home country. Recently Mexico’s economy collapse in the early 1990’s because money was printed in huge amounts in a short period of time.
Many people see illegaly immigrants trying to work here as criminals. Take Arizona for example. In reality, illegal immigrants is merely a reflection of what Thomas Jefferson warned about Privately owned Central Banks.
We are facing a crisis. The american people’s attention has been turned to illegal immigration as being the culprit in the economy. The truth, the Federal Reserve is behind every economic crisis we’ve had. Don’t take my word for it. Understanding how Central Banking system works won’t happen over night. Just like most things, it takes time to understand. Once you do undestand, you will never think about immigration
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Well, as with all of your posts, this is well thought out and contains a good deal of common sense.
The simple fact of the matter is, that if we simply get rid of banks, and create a currency and economy for the sole purpose of facilitating and maximizing trade and production, i expect that most Americans would end up owning some very productive and successful businesses, and progressively trading with each other in order to obtain ever more benefits from that production, and that we would be in a position of having to invite immigrants here in order to perform the labor.
Kill the power that creates the problems and the problems will go away on their own. I find it absolutely incomprehensible how many people still keep beating their heads against the wall in order to try and figure out how to deal with symptoms instead of curing the disease that is the cause each and every one of them.
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Their has been claims that the state of Arizona is spending $1 Billion in education, hospitals and jails for illegal immigrants. I’ve heard another person say $3 Billion. I wonder if they take into account tax contribution from illegal immigrants who pay taxes. Yes, surprisingly illegal immigrants pay taxes. Conviniently the IRS hands out ITIN (INDIVIDUAL TAXPAYER IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS) for those who wish to pay taxes. Why would illegal immigrants pay taxes? Those who pay taxes believe that if they pay taxes maybe one day it would be easier for them to attain their papers.
My point is this… let’s say Arizona is right. Let’s say illegal immigration is costing the state $2 billion.. Just recently the U.S Central Bank aka the Federal Reserve lent out 2,000,000,000,000 Trillion dollars to hundreds of banks around the country! Not to long ago the Federal Reserve lent out $500,000,000,000 billion to foreigners!
2.2 Trillion dollars loan to unknown banks on youtube..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWXrMCGJT4
500 Billion loan to foreign Central Banks..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NYBTkE1yQ
Arizona believes their law will make their economy better. What’s going to protect arizona from the Federal Reserve? What’s going to protect americans from the devaluation of the U.S. dollar? Trillions of dollars have been printed and the dollar will suffer. Any american working hard to make a living? Well, its to bad we aren’t working together to make sure our money’s value is being protected.
Instead we are being distracted from the real culprit in the economy, the Central Banking system.
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I agree that the federal reserve is our worst problem but we don’t need to ignore the rest.
Open borders aren’t a good idea for any nation.
This wicked government is using it as a scam.
This wicked shadow government is conspiring against us.
They need an exuse to hand out ID card and to stick computer chips in us. It’s a big brother scam. That’s why they are leaving the borders open and publicizing the fact that drug lords and terrorists are sneaking through.
They want the public to cry out in fear. They want us to ask for a national ID card.
Once we ask for an ID card they will introduce the idea of a computer chip.
You wait and see.
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Yeah this is good. You’ve realized the things that should be apparent to everyone who’s simply willing to look and think about whats going on around them, and that is that 98 % of the problems that exist in this world are created by someone in order to provide them with the means to establish further power for themselves.
Once we get rid of those who want to establish the power, then i think everyone will be amazed at how many of the problems simply go away on their own, and how simple and easy it will be to resolve the ones that do not. We do need to deal with first things first and eliminate the source of them and Alfred is absolutely right about that, and a great many others are seeing this too by now, finally.
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America is owned by (let’s see if this comes as a surprise) “Americans”.
When you own property, you have a basic right to allow people to come onto it or not-as you see fit.
Illegal aliens are trespassing. In many cases they trespass on private individual property as well as public property. In all cases they are violating the rights of the owners-the people-who have decided that being overrun on their home turf is not acceptable.
So what happens to *me* when I go anywhere I feel like? If I walk around in my neighbor’s yard or enter government property I am forbidden to enter, I get cited and removed.
Communist countries supposedly do not have private property and few countries respect property rights as much as America-traditionally. Why would I go to an oppressive regime to have borders respected?
The first thing anyone who opposes deportation of aliens and enforcement of border security should do is open their own property up to anyone that wants to walk across it or even settle on it. Let it be known that strangers can come and go as they please in their yard. Those of us that disagree will maintain our privacy.
To see this theory in action, one need only watch the southern border of Mexico where immigrants can be shot on site for entering Mexico and violating the private property rights of the Mexican people. The Mexican government has absolutely no problem with this policy and appears to not have any interest in repealing it.
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I couldn’t agree more – the same thesis applies in nearly all of the articles, speeches and philosophies represented by Ron Paul. The same rules and principles that apply to the individual in our day to day lives should dictate our public policies as well. Why does that seem to be such a difficult concept for people to grasp? Could nay-sayers really dispute, with a straight face, that what governs the person should not govern the people? These are guiding principles we learn at a young age, yet in masses we seem to forget or ignore these fundamental values.
1) Rules are rules. If they are broken, there are consequences. If the rules need to change, there are processes in place to facilitate change (aka amendments), but that does not mean that we should circumvent or perpetuate the disregard of the rules in the mean time. (e.g. Immigration).
2) Treat others as you want to be treated. Would you want a neighbor from across town to set up camp in your backyard, being loud, taking up space, throwing garbage in the lawn, making noise late at night? Would you do it to your neighbor? No. Eventually, the unwilling host in either case would become frustrated, fed up, and (likely in metaphoric terms) ‘blow up’. Why would we not expect the same thing to happen when we occupy another country? This does not mean the ‘camper’ has ‘asked for it’ as Giuliani tried to insinuate, just that the ‘camper’ should be aware of their impact, aware of the fact that their actions could have potentially negative consequences. It’s called being responsible for one’s own actions, and responsible to know the basic laws of motion: every action has an equal and opposite reaction. (e.g. 9/11)
3. When you make a mistake, the appropriate response is to admit it, take ownership, and work to correct it. Defiantly insisting no mistake was made, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, discredits you, and exposes your true immaturity. Stalling and delaying while staying long enough to attempt to justify your presence (aka “no, I meant to do that”) only exacerbates the waste and harm. (e.g. Iraq)
4. When you spend too much money, you don’t get to go to the money tree for more. When you make a bad bet, a bad decision, or a bad investment, you don’t get a pat on the back and a check to replenish your funds. The “Free Market” does not exist if failures are filtered – for the same reason we cannot select students who fail tests and give them A’s anyway because ‘it would hurt too much if they got an F.’ (e.g. Bailouts)
The list goes on. What saddens me is, that until you break this down to such simplistic analogies that there simply is no argument against it, it is not understood. It frightens me what this indicates about the intelligence and/or reasonableness of the general population. Either people truly don’t get it, and we need to spend a lot more time on critical thinking and application of principles in scales of increasing complexity during elementary school, OR perhaps worse – we are dealing with a situation where people will spite their sense of reason because they would rather be part of the group that is pointing & laughing like a bunch of idiot frat boys rather than being mocked for telling the truth and doing the right thing (aka ‘peer pressure’).
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Can you tell me which category of law, between “mala in se” and “mala prohibita”, the immigration laws fall into?
If you say they fall into “mala in se” then can you name me the party that is wronged by the act of border crossing?
If you say it’s “everyone” or “society” or “the taxpayers”, then your entire argument for closed or semi-closed borders amounts to identical arguments for why drugs should remain illegal, why gun control is acceptable, why everyone should be taxed to pay for public schools, why the federal reserve is legitimized by voting in favor of it, etc…
In short, Ron Paul understands “mala prohibita” and disagrees with it, except in the case of immigration, where he supports it, in order to add an additional constituency to his voter and donor rolls.
I almost can’t fault him for this, because he typically votes against being consistent with his inconsistent position, and he does a better job at everything else than everyone else.
But that still doesn’t make the argument against open borders correct.
Again, Marc Stevens says it better than I do, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrwXYhCU9pQ
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Mala in se
The party wronged by the act of crossing the borders without documentation is the party comprised of persons who crossed over with documentation as well as their decsendents.
Those persons who obtained documentation did so under the beief that this documentaition was a contract with the government of the USA which they agreed to and that as per that contract they were agreeing to follow the laws which govern the land and that they would teach their descendents that these laws were acceptable.
In return they were led to believe that others living in the land also agreed to these laws and to this government.
We now have a party of citizens who not only agree to live by the laws of this land but who are subjects of taxation and punishment for rule breaking.
Co-existing with this ”wronged” party are non-citizens who are not subject to the same rules and taxes.
Therefore the lawless citizens have wronged those who are forced to live under the law.
Mals in se
How is Dr. Paul inconsistent?
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I refute your logic below, in [brackets] after your reprinted post:
Mala in se [wrong. It's a malum prohibitum, par excellence. Crossing a State border violates noone's rights, in and of itself. States don't have rights, only individuals have rights. There are no "collective rights". If there were, then just by being a member of the collective, I might have a right that I didn't have as an individual, which is absurd from the standpoint of natural law, or "the common law".]
The party wronged by the act of crossing the borders without documentation is the party comprised of persons who crossed over with documentation as well as their decsendents. [And how are they injured then? No answer.]
Those persons who obtained documentation did so under the beief that this documentaition was a contract with the government of the USA which they agreed to and that as per that contract they were agreeing to follow the laws which govern the land and that they would teach their descendents that these laws were acceptable. [This is an insane. It's basically an argument for obeying a laundry list of authoritarian commandments, ie: "whatever the state says". There is no such thing as a "social contract" to obey immoral laws. Read Lysander Spooner's "The Constitution of No Authority" if you doubt this. And even if all of this was true, you essentially are elevating the following of other (non immigration) "mala prohibita" to the following of "mala in se" laws]
In return they were led to believe that others living in the land also agreed to these laws and to this government. [Fuck 'em. If I'm led to believe tyranny is valid, does that mean you're obligated to obey that tyranny because of my delusion? No, it doesn't.]
We now have a party of citizens who not only agree to live by the laws of this land but who are subjects of taxation and punishment for rule breaking. [Spoken like a true bootlicking authoritarian. I guess by that logic we should all obey the drug laws, gun laws, and every other unjust and immoral law as well, then, right? Wrong!]
Co-existing with this ”wronged” party are non-citizens who are not subject to the same rules and taxes. [What you need to do is wake up and understand that NOONE is subject to immoral rules and taxes, and that if immigrants are better at evading those immoral rules and taxes, then they should be thanked for showing us that those immoral rules and taxes can be evaded, ignored, and viewed with the contempt they deserve.]
Therefore the lawless citizens have wronged those who are forced to live under the law. [This is a nonsequitur. It does not follow. Your argument is simple mindless jealousy. Your argument is the argument of the tattle-tale, the narc, the informer, the wimp who calls attention to those who are finding away around tyranny and authoritarianism. The better argument is that the tyranny should be applied to NONE, not to ALL.]
Mals in se
How is Dr. Paul inconsistent? [He's inconsistent because he's read "The Constitution of No Authority" and he opposes the tracking of US citizens. Yet there is absolutely no way to enforce the immigration laws without universal tracking of all citizens. Moreover, this is indefensible from a consistent belief in individual freedom, yet he is forced to defend it because he defends the popular view of the Constitution as the be-all-end-all of individual rights protection, when it's not. He does this because if he demands philosophical consistency from his "fiscally conservative base", he knows that he is reducing his support from some "conservatives" and betting on liberals leaving the comfort of the Demopublicans their parents programmed them to vote for. Sadly, that's exactly what he needs to bet on, if libertarianism is to prevail in the long run, even if it means discomfort in the short run.]
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To Jake Witmer june 22 4:33
Amen!
I very much agree with all, ALL that you discuss, and appreciate your candid and well thought out attempt at educating some very obtuse people. I also think our (America’s) ignorance surrounding the issues we have with drugs and immagration stems from the Us and Them stance, which is both prejudice and racist, therefore absolutly irrational and unjust. Agree or disagree?
Add to your library: Can’t Find My Way Home; America’s Great Stoned Age 1945-2000 by Martin Torgoff
p.s. c’mon, you know Jorge’s wife still has sex with the landlord!!! Ho
ho!
pps Not only coca tea from S America….Cuban Cigars from Cuba.
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I agree with all but the change in the Constitution to end birthright citizenship. As a said before, if they had legal VISA’s the families would not come here and we would not be dealing with all these kids and social issues. The workers would go back home to their waiting families in Mexico. No one born here who can stay longer than the others on VISA’s from other countries. We create a system of illegal families by our poorly run VISA system. This would eliminate the people smuggling trade and reduce all crime except the drugs. Very few come here only for health care relative to the majority looking for work. Those that do can be billed private pay as others are who come from other countries to seek care in our tertiary care centers.
I am not sure who disliked the idea of fixing the VISA system- these can be granted to only those who have not been here illegally or broken the law. They are not a track to citizenship or amnesty. So please explain your reason you disagree.
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Their has been claims that the state of Arizona is spending $1 Billion in education, hospitals and jails for illegal immigrants. I’ve heard another person say $3 Billion. I wonder if they take into account tax contribution from illegal immigrants who pay taxes. Yes, surprisingly illegal immigrants pay taxes. Conviniently the IRS hands out ITIN (INDIVIDUAL TAXPAYER IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS) for those who wish to pay taxes. Why would illegal immigrants pay taxes? Those who pay taxes believe that if they pay taxes maybe one day it would be easier for them to attain their papers.
My point is this… let’s say Arizona is right. Let’s say illegal immigration is costing the state $2 billion.. Just recently the U.S Central Bank aka the Federal Reserve lent out 2,000,000,000,000 Trillion dollars to hundreds of banks around the country! Not to long ago the Federal Reserve lent out $500,000,000,000 billion to foreigners!
2.2 Trillion dollars loan to unknown banks on youtube..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWXrMCGJT4
500 Billion loan to foreign Central Banks..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NYBTkE1yQ
Arizona believes their law will make their economy better. What’s going to protect arizona from the Federal Reserve? What’s going to protect americans from the devaluation of the U.S. dollar? Trillions of dollars have been printed and the dollar will suffer. Any american working hard to make a living? Well, its to bad we aren’t working together to make sure our money’s value is being protected.
Instead we are being distracted from the real culprit in the economy, the Central Banking system.
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