A nation without borders is no nation at all. After decades of misguided policies America has now become a free-for-all. Our leaders betrayed the middle class which is forced to compete with welfare-receiving illegal immigrants who will work for almost anything, just because the standards in their home countries are even lower.
If these policies are not reversed, the future is grim. A poor, dependent and divided population is much easier to rule than a nation of self-confident individuals who can make a living on their own and who share the traditions and values that this country was founded upon.
Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:
- Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
- Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
- No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
- No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
- End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents' home countries.]
- Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
The facts on the ground are being created right now. Every day that passes makes it more difficult to reverse the damage that has already been done.
I’m watching “Gangs of New York.” I guess i’m not suppose to cheer the Butcher, but I am.
“My father gave his life, making this country what it is. Murdered by the British with all of his men on the twenty fifth of July, anno domini, 1814. Do you think I’m going to help you befoul his legacy, by giving this country over to them, what’s had no hand in the fighting for it? Why, because they come off a boat crawling with lice and begging you for soup.” Butcher
“I don’t see no Americans. I see trespassers, Irish harps. Do a job for a nickel what a nigger does for a dime and a white man used to get a quarter for. What have they done? Name one thing they’ve contributed.” Butcher
“Votes, you say? They vote how the archbishop tells them, and who tells the archbishop? Their king in the pointy hat what sits on his throne in Rome.” Butcher
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Okay, here’s the issue. I don’t know WTF your quotes mean or what your trying to say. I had to ask someone to explain this stuff you wrote. It’s from a film I guess. I thought you were quoting some type of antiIrish crap from 200 years ago. DON’T ASSUME WE ALL KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. If your anti-Irish—F— YOU!! If your not anti=Irish then have the decency to explain yourself and what your trying to say. I’m from an Irish family and we fought in the American Army from the Revolutionary War to Iraq. Never missed one my friend (Including me In Nam and my Son in Iraq). We always sided with Old Glory.
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The movie shows how rich bas-terds always manage to pit a group of cheap foreign laborers (who happen to be of the same ethnicity) with a group of American laborers (who happen to be of the same ethnicity). This movie it’s the Irish.
Similarly in the Confederate South the rich bas-terds managed to get more black soldiers in their army then the North by promising them their freedom (how compassionate). This succeeded in pitting a group of cheap foreign laborers (southern blacks) against American laborers (northern blacks) on the battlefield.
In this movie the antagonists were 2 rival gang members. The nativist Irish in one gang, and the newly off the boat Irish in another gang. But the real antagonists pulling the strings were the rich and the political arm of the rich (Tammany Hall); all in the backround of the Civil War where the rich could buy their way out of Conscription by paying a fee.
Same thing is happening today. The newly smuggled in Mexicans are fighting the old school Mexicans who have been here longer, but the real antagonists are the rich business owners who love cheap foreign labor. Nothing changes.
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I am amused at some of the protectionist sentiment expressed on this blog by people who perhaps profess to be libertarian and pro-free enterprise. I am writing about the type of protectionism which says you should prohibit the free movement of people. The thread in these views is that these aliens do not share American free enterprise values and will end up corrupting the country. These views are in fact postulating the existence of an anti-free enterprise gene which of course is a fundamentally racist notion. These views are not supported even if we look at the issue from a cultural perspective (I do no believe that cultural influences have much longterm effect, anyway); people from Asia and Latin America are far less use to being mollycoddled by the state than Americans. If they are currupted, it is because of life in America. Let’s face it – American born people just don’t want to compete with other people who will work harder for less. Even with unemployment approaching ten per cent American farmers can not get American born people to pick the crop.
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To accept illegal immigration is to accept all the negative aspects of it without question or scrutiny and if you state opposition based on facts you’re racist. That’s
not fair in my mind.
So you’re saying that the cultural difference does NOT affect us? hahahaha That’s plain ignorant. In order for these illegals to accept these jobs they live in homes with 2-3 families and even a family living in the garage. Cars are parked all over on the lawn and even in the backyard. This is NOT American culture but is in fact another aspect that has been overlooked due to the fact that it conflicts with open border policy. It’s the same as the kidnapping going on Phx. It’s not American culture to kidnap and sever limbs and “raising Arizona” didn’t
cause these kidnappings a lack of enforcement did. So you say America is coddled? Maybe so but we’re the best nation in the world. You can’t hold that against us for wanting to preserve what’s great in this country. It’s just a natural reaction and if you were us you’d think the same way. In any case, do you not see anything wrong with how much deception is created in order to HIDE the negative aspects of it?
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David Brown believes in core Libertarian ideology. One aspect of core Libertarian ideology is open-borders, so if 100 million Chinese want to immigrate to America next year, there’s nothing to stop them.
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Simple logic, “Open borders” is the same thing as “no government”. — Anarchy!
Anarchists pretending to be libertarians are really annoying to real libertarians.
… And Commie-Protectionists are equally annoying.
Defend our sovereignty!
Defend our rights!
Defend our borders!
Lead by example, and othe nations will follow.
… If we choose to be a welfare-nanny state the world will suck our tit dry, and still remain impoverished themselves.
… On the other hand, if we choose to follow our founding fathers intents, as “individualists”, then the people of the world will learn to carry their own weight, and stop expecting America to solve all their woes.
If this world is ever to go forward, all nations must elevate themselves.
America is only one nation, a leader nation perhaps, but let us lead like a true leader. We cannot carry the load of the world. They must carry their own weight.
Deport every illegal alien and lead by example. They will either follow our individualist example or they won’t; but we won’t be carrying their load in addition to our own weight – in socialist fashion. It’s their choice to go forward or not. And the same applies to us. Get busy living or get busy dying.
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…. It is not heartless, folks. It is leadership!
And that is exactly what Ron Paul is suggesting and supporting across the board. And so do I!
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Libertarian say: “Deport every illegal alien and lead by example.”
What use is it to deport 10 million illegals then invite in 50 million guest workers? That’s what the neocon/Libertarians want. What exactly will that accomplish other then make the situation worse?
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Crazy Internet Troll Says: “What use is it to deport 10 million illegals then invite in 50 million guest workers?”
None. It will never happen under Ron Paul’s leadership.
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Ryan, what would we do without Fast Freddie? He’s trolling me in another board. Wouldn’t be as much fun without one equal opportunity troller.
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Ronulan liar says: “It will never happen under Ron Paul’s leadership.”
http://profiles.numbersusa.com/improfile.php3?DistSend=TX&VIPID=787
Ron Paul loves cheap foreign labor (guest workers), Ron Paul:
Cosponsoring legislation to increase H-2B workers who are present in the U.S. at any one time in 2005-2006
Nearly doubled H-1B foreign
high-tech workers in 1998
Voted in 1998 to allow firms to lay off Americans
to make room for foreign workers
Voted against employment verification in 2008
Voted against an amendment to reduce funding for the visa waiver program.
Voted against amendment to fund program to deny driver’s licenses to illegal aliens in 2005
Voted against bill to bar drivers’ licenses for illegal aliens in 2005
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LOL
Very true, Joan.
Fred is fun… by crazy internet trolls standards. :^P
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Fred,
It says, Ron Paul “Voted to protect American workers by voting against foreign worker importation program in 2005 ”
It also says, Ron Paul “Voted in favor of amendment to prohibit immigration increases in Free Trade Agreements in 2005 ”
It also says, Ron Paul “Voted to protect American workers by voting against worker-importation program in 2003″
And way back in 1998 he did mess up, probably from lack of sleep, working too hard to counter the liberal-neocons insanity, and voted to nearly double H-1B foreign high-tech workers and allowed firms to lay off Americans to make room for foreign workers. There must have been a reason at the time, in his mind, although I’d say it was wrong all along.
Anyway, so what! He made a mistake 12 years ago. But it says nothing even remotely close to him wanting to import 50,000,000 (50 million) guest workers, as you incorrectly suggested.
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“Your comment is awaiting moderation.”?
… Moderating what?
… no cuss words, at all. zero. zip….. nothing!
What is the world coming to? Ridiculous.
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Ron Paul, and other neocon Republicans, would kick out 10 million illegals, then invite in 50 million cheap foreign labor “guest workers”. What would that accomplish other then make the situation worse?
Similarly:
Ron Paul would abolish NAFTA, then lower US Tariffs to zero while Mexico-Canada would raise thei tariffs against the US. What would that accomplish other then make the situation worse?
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No, these immigrants do not fuel the American ideal. They’ve never heard of it, nothing like it exists where they come from, and this country does not encourage them to learn it once they get here.
This is not the 1800s, where immigrants show up with the opportunity and self-determination to better their lives. Immigrants that arrive now immediately sign up for every government handout available and start gaming the system. Sure, most work very hard. They also consume more than their fair share of our nation’s generous entitlements.
Anyone is welcome to show up and compete, fairly, as far as I’m concerned. But working cheap and allowing the taxpayer to make up the difference games the system and patently unfair.
The jobs the immigrants are doing, construction and the like, were being done 15 years ago by kids I graduated with from High School. Now those jobs are all done by illegals because they work for less. They can afford to work for less partly because of the leaner lifestyle they live, but mostly because their wife and five kids absorb every entitlement the state offers.
To argue that immigrants are simply cheap labor is dishonest. They are cheap in no small part because of the generous welfare system here; a welfare system that my contemporaries will not abuse as the immigrants do. The employers win because the taxpayer is subsidizing their labor costs.
Arizona can’t afford them, and soon neither will the rest of the southern states. And if you look at the “ten most wanted” for any of these states, you’ll find that most or all are Mexicans.
So give it a breather, man, nobody cares. The country needs a period of recession to get the millions that have arrived a chance to get with the program.
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All immigrants are cheap and undercut American labor, whether they come over here illegally to pick fruit or as programmers under H1B visas. American natives have a lower standard of living while the rich get richer. Free Trade has the same effect, cheap foreign labor.
All of this promotes socialism cause Americans would rather live with socialism then become slaves to the rich.
Now y’all have 2 choices:
#1) Stop exploitation of cheap foreign labor and get rid of socialism.
#2) Exploit cheap foreign labor and embrace socialism.
There are no other alternatives, neocons and Libertarians.
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I find it laughable that a user commented about how “free trade” is related to immigration or how another writer frowned upon socialism yet thinks
illegal immigration is good.
First off, I view Dr. Paul as a constitutionalist first and foremost and that means
an infringment upon our civil liberties comes first before any talks of how this is related to free trade. I can’t believe I even responded to that but oh well.
As far as the anti socialist who likes immigration, he has no clue about the dynamics of our government and the stance it has taken for years. It’s pretty clear that if they got amnesty those same amnesty people wouldn’t just pick up and disappear. They’d do exactly what black civil rights leaders do and that’s become lobbyists for special privileges. We don’t need a society where
visions are forced upon us to justify special privileges. This is what makes people dependent upon government and causes friction and division upon the people.
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It is contradictory to believe in free trade – the free movement of goods across a border – but to be opposed to the free movement of people. A true libertarian is against restrictions on trade and against restrictions on the movement of people. In a true market economy jobs will be filled by the person who is prepared to sell his labour for the lowest price. Mexicans are in the U.S. because generally speaking they are prepared to sell their labour (and there are many Americans prepared to buy that labour) for a lower price than people born in the U.S. This is the free market system at work. In a system where goods can move freely but people can’t countries like Mexico and China become captives of cheap labour. The longterm consequence is to undermine industry in the U.S. which can not compete with the low cost captive labour of other countries. Allow the free movement of people and this problem disappears as wages become standardized around the world. In other words there would be no point in Walmart getting its products manufactured in Mexico or China when they could be manufactured just as cheaply (and without the transportation costs) in the U.S.
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Free Trader say: “Allow the free movement of people and this problem disappears as wages become standardized around the world.”
Equalize wages huh. Oh so American citizens should suffer the consequences of a corrupt or socialist government overseas. I see.
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Libertarians promote corrupt and socialists governments in America. When the open-border/free trade Libertarian/Neocons cost tens of millions of Americans good paying jobs those tens of millions of Americans vote Democrat.
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…But Protectionism surely isn’t empowering the Dems, is it? Your ignorance is amazing.
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The Democrats play the populist game, but they are no protectionists. They’ll throw up a tariff here and there, for a few more votes in a strategic manner.
The Tariff does empower the Democrats, cause voters frankly don’t like you free-traitors.
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It is not necessarily accurate to say that open borders are consistent with Libertarianism. Yeah, I know that lb.org says it is so, but an immigrant’s value to this country as cheap labor exists because the system is gamed, and the American taxpayer is currently forced to underwrite the cost of his replacement.
The Libertarian ideal of free enterprise doesn’t hold when the system isn’t fair, man. Libertarians always fall down on that one; ignoring the dirty stunts that business pulls to game the system in their favor. They care not one wit if their host country is completely consumed, as long as they make money on the way down.
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“It is not necessarily accurate to say that open borders are consistent with Libertarianism. Yeah, I know that lb.org says it is so, but an immigrant’s value to this country as cheap labor exists because the system is gamed, and the American taxpayer is currently forced to underwrite the cost of his replacement.”
Common misconception by those who cling to neocon-Libertarianism. Even if illegals were guest worker (slaves) who didn’t get any welfare, they’d still be undercutting American labor.
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The lack of social tolerance and basic comprehension of the ideas of liberty on this board is apalling.
If Ludwig von Mises and Freidrich Hayek hadn’t been able to escape Hitler by coming to the USA, there would have been no Ron Paul, and no freedom movement around him.
For all the people who think “keeping the immigrants out” is an answer, here are a few points:
1) You couldn’t do it even if you wanted to. The US minimum wage demands workers who need not follow it. By stupidly allowing or supporting a minimum wage for so many years, Americans have priced themselves out of entry-level jobs. Since employers don’t trust an American citizen who says “hire me under the table, I’ll work for whatever you want” (since they hold all the cards and could sue the employer out of existence), those employers have an incentive to hire people whom they could “report to immigration”. This means that there is a huge market for illegal immigrants, and when markets are pitted against government, black markets are created, and win out, over time (unless the government becomes a totalitarian regime, as our government is well on its way to doing).
2) Which brings me to: If you’re on the side of trying to keep out illegal immigrants, you are (intentionally or not) on the side of creating a totalitarian police state. If you favor cops being able to arrest someone, put cuffs on them, and ship them across a border, with or without their family, then you are a tyrant, supporting tyranny. If you favor random ID checks, or traffic stops, you are also a tyrant supporting tyranny. If you favor mandatory ID cards, you are a tyrant, supporting tyranny. If you favor a border wall, you are a tyrant, supporting tyranny. There is no way to get around this. Now, I know you’re a lot of stupid, well-meaning people who think that they can “engineer society” for liberty by controlling populations. (Gee, where have I heard that kind of uninformed hubris before?)
3) You’re laboring under the false idea that immigrants don’t want more individual liberty. They want whatever they can get. If YOU, the US citizen FAIL IN YOUR DUTY to secure liberty for them, and a free market for them to compete in, then they will take a welfare payment, and you will lose.
4) Opposition to immigrants on welfare is your only legitimate argument, but that is NOT an argument against immigration, it’s an argument against welfare bribes. I agree. We need to smash the welfare state. …We can’t do that if the friends of freedom are fighting against one another.
5) If I was sheltering an illegal immigrant and his family at my home, and you tried to report them to “ICE” and I found out about it, I’d treat you the same way the Cartagena cartel treats police informants, and you would totally deserve it.
On any given issue, the people who want more police involvement, more security theater, and fewer individual liberties for the poor (of any background), are wrong. It’s a simple rule of thumb that works well. If someone has a spouse that wants to come here, and they can’t because of you, or the policies you support, …you’re a tyrant.
I find it incredibly sad that Ron Paul supporters who have seen through the tyranny of the drug war and gun control (which has all the same flawed arguments that the anti-immigration argument has), are too conformist and following to see through the exact same arguments when applied to the immigration issue.
1) “drug users/gun owners hurt the moral fiber of America, you can’t legalize drugs because then we’d have more drug use/violence, and druggies/violent gangbangers don’t vote for liberty” vs “illegal immigrants hurt the moral fiber of America, you can’t legalize immigration because then we’d have more immigration, and immigrants don’t support a culture of liberty” = totally not supported by the evidence, tangential to true arguments. (Ad hominem arguments, assertions without fact.)
2) “drug addicts/ gun toting gangbangers apply for welfare more than US citizens” “immigrants apply for welfare more than US citizens” = not true, and even if true, irrelevant. We want to eliminate welfare. That’s the goal. We don’t want to tyrannize people on the way to eliminating welfare, because if we do, we’ll make ourselves an easy political target, and fail. Only consistent individual liberty prevails.
3) I could go on, but the low intellectual level on this bigoted board is boring me. Suffice to say that Marc Stevens is right. If you people at the lower echelons of the Ron Paul support movement want to make yourselves useful I suggest you read the novel “Unintended Consequences” by John Ross, and draw your own conclusions about border security theater.
…How ugly! We’ve become a nation like Nazi Germany, because of brainless thug voters and their idiotic politics. So sad to see someone who’s 98% on the side of liberty support such inane contradictions (even if he’s smart enough that he doesn’t stand by their logical conclusions, and doesn’t vote for abortions like the border fence, and random ID checkpoints).
To hell with the white separatists in the Ron Paul movement! They are the death of the Ron Paul movement.
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http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration
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Told you so, Libertarians are open-border (/free-traders).
Don’t let their duplicity, compartmentalization and propaganda fool you.
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Ron Paul is wrong about immigration, and right about almost everything else. His view on immigration is un-libertarian, otherwise, he’s a religious libertarian (his religiousity interferes with a rational view on abortion as well).
I agree with Paul that the most important issue is Ending the Fed.
I agree with his stance on the immoral and unconstitutional wars.
I agree with his stance on ending the punishment of people for owning property and other victimless crimes.
I agree with his authorship/sponsorship of the Full Informed Jury Amendment.
I acknowledge that he is the only politician to vote consistently.
I acknowledge that he is the only person in congress with personal moral integrity, who recognizes the destructiveness of government and taxation.
I greatly admire Paul for bringing up issues that other people wouldn’t dare touch, out of fear and cowardice.
Unfortunately, large-but-losing demographics have pressured him to abandon the ideas of individual freedom on immigration. Under no interpretation of libertarianism are borders heavily policed, and people “deported”. That is statist barbarism.
Paul’s ideas on abortion are consistent with his interpretation of libertarianism, and with his religious views and past as an ob-gyne. I give him a pass on that one, because he also seems to understand the difference between one minute after conception, and one month. Moreover, he is personally morally repulsed by abortion, and the solution is likely technologica anyway. Abortion is a mess, and a time-wasting unresolvable conflict.
On all other issues other than immigration, Paul addresses the root cause of the problem, and the symptom is ignored. If you don’t like drug dealers and their outlaw battles for drug territory, then legalize drugs and include those people in the court system –and push them out of the black market. If you don’t like illegal immigrants behaving lawlessly and creating victims and victimizers, the answer is the same: eliminate the illegal status, and allow them access to the court system.
But don’t have an easily exploitable welfare state for them (and the millions of US-born welfare cases) to take advantage of.
In every other area that “we have to follow the law” argument is seen through as shallow, and intellectually dishonest.
“Owning a gun is my right -to hell with the law.”
“Owning a drug is my right -to hell with the law”
“Owning my own money is my right -to hell with the law.”
“Owning my own property and business is my right -to hell with the law.”
“Owning a my own body and my own stem cells is my right -to hell with the law.”
But when it comes to immigration:
“The law is the law!” (circular bromide)
When it comes to “illegal” immigration, Paul is wrong, Marc Stevens is right.
On everything else, Paul is right. So yeah, I’d vote for Paul in a heartbeat. He has no ability to interfere with abortions, even if he were elected (although he could create a grotesque temporary black market in abortions if he got the government involved).
I guess that if Paul were elected, I’d just have to criticize any tyrannization of illegals under his administration, while I championed him on every other issue.
Jake
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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the reason that you are wrong jake is that there hasn’t been a libertarian president since the founder’s time. you want to take a guess why? massive immigration that came faster than the nation’s ability to integrate them. if you are a people who believes in democracy and liberty and you let in a bunch of immigrants who don’t believe in those things and they get over 50 percent of the population, they vote liberty out of office and start to change the country to one that they prefer.
is it any wonder that a majority of the new americans vote democrat, are pro welfare, anti gun, are basically against everything in the constitution? people tend to naively believe that assimilation is a one way street. The exchange of cultural values goes both ways. that is why liberty lovers are so few today.
Highly rated. What do you think?
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The reason you’re wrong “gander”, is that the pragmatic contextual results of a philosophical stance do not change the validity of the stance.
It doesn’t matter what individual illegals do once they get here, to the debate about whether they should be allowed in, unless you can show that they are all anti-freedom (which you can’t, because that’s not correct). That’s the same fallacious argument as saying you’re against legalizing drugs because your brother was robbed by a junkie. It’s conflating the actions with a few based on horrible circumstances with the actions of all, after those horrible circumstances have been corrected.
Every problem with immigration is really a problem with the fact that immigration is restricted by the state. This is not only the view of “the libertarians”, it is the view of the Austrian School of Economics, of von Mises and Hayek.
Don’t want immigrants to be “anti-libertarian”? Then don’t support stripping them from their families and shoving them across an imaginary line, dolt! And don’t equate the useful term “libertarian” with doing such!
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This is a major problem. We have to secure our borders. But we will never get the majority of current offenders out. If they have to be naturalized they should have to pay for the privilage. 5000 -10000 each. Also it is highly likely that the Mexican resturant in your town is funded by gangs.
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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Well something needs to about our borders, mainly Mexico without a doubt. If you don’t agree, your probably Mexican. I guess it’s never too late, but this should have been done 150 years ago. I don’t think the US should be the world police or the world mission. I also believe we need to bring our work back home. These problems have gotten so out of hand because we’ve had a government that allowed it for so long-the damage is done. We need to make wiser decisions when it comes to electing officials to run our country people. It’s never too late, Nov. 2 make a u-turn, lets take our country back and show them who’s country this is!
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What purpose does it serve to kick out 10-20 million illegals then invite them back in as “Guest Workers”? Probably 50 million “Guest Workers”, double that.
The Neocon/Libertarians want that. Amnesty, or nothing at all, would be better then the Neocon/Libertarian solution. In fact if I remember correctly it is one of the primary reasons Republicans (Neocon/Libertarian Party) lost the last election, mmmhmm.
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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Fred, you are easy to predict. Take any issue and say that the Libertarians want exactly the opposite of what they really want.
***”What purpose does it serve to kick out 10-20 million illegals then invite them back in as “Guest Workers”?”***
None, and it would never happen; Ron Paul would never allow 10-20 million guest workers back in.
If any guest workers were ever allowed back in, for harvest season perhaps, for one, they would only be allowed in after any American looking for work got first chance to get the job; they would only be allowed to fill any remaining job openings on temporary work visas. And secondly, they’d be paying taxes for a change. And third, they would be legally present and therefore documented.
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You just contradicted yourself. First you say you’re against Guest Workers, then you turn around and say we need Guest Workers.
*moves forefinger around ear in clockwise motion*
Maybe you should go Liberal and make up words or completely redefine them so they sound more palatable. Instead of “Guest Workers” call them “Needed Workers”, eh? Maybe you should hire me at your Libertarian propaganda department, i’m tired of doing your job for you.
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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Trying reading with your eyes next time.
I said “if” any guest workers were “ever” allowed back in….
I never suggested they should. Personally, I do not suggest it. I think we have plenty of people right here willing to work.
You suggested there would be no purpose in deporting them.
My point was that their certainly would be “even if” they were allowed in as guest workers; that they’d be legal, they’d be paying taxes, and they would be secondary to any American seeking employment.
Maybe you should go back to kindergarden and further your education.
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No they wouldn’t be “paying taxes”, the cheap foreign labor lovers would just find 10 million more slaves to work at their sweat shops.
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You’ll have to be patient with Fled. English is not his first language and is only aware of the MSM/Wiki meanings of words.
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I have the immigration solution. Lets pull all our troops from other countries into the US and invade Mexico. Then when there is no longer a Mexico, employ all the ex-mexicans to watch the southern border or we threaten to return their leaders to office.
(Calm DOWN i’m only joking).
My point is: Americans fought to have what we have now, a free society. It was passed on to us by all the Americans who died fighting for it. If people of other countries are oppressed they should rise up together and fight for their own freedom for their own children. Why is it America’s responsibility to care for and house people of other nations? If they don’t like their own government they should work to change it. It is up to the people to decide how much power they are going to allow their government.
We are being invaded by illegal immigrants. This invasion is a threat to our way of life. I’m tired of hearing, “illegal immigrants do the jobs that no one else will do” Because that person must have never been poor. I’ve never had much money my entire life and there isn’t a job that I wouldn’t do to keep from having to be on welfare. I was born here, the daughter of a native American and decendent of Irish immigrants. I have done whatever job I could to feed and care for my children. Welfare is not a free ride like some people believe it is. It is tantamount to slavery. In order to be “cared for” you give up your freedom. I would choose freedom. I would choose work.
Do you know what its like to barely be able to pay your bills, even though you work (hard demanding work) 12 – 15 hours a day, then to be laid off without cause in November? They even hired the illegals 2 weeks before we got laid off, so we could train them. Can you imagine that day in November going home to your family? Defeated in utter dispair. Facing your small children that are depending on you? What consolation do you think it was to me that the company got caught, and fined? That just meant more illegal labor competing for my job again.
Well, my children are grown up now. Even though I worked hard, I never could give them things that a lot of people took for granted. We never could afford a telephone, sometimes we did well just to have electricity. Now, my children are having trouble finding jobs. And like me, they’d do any job but even the smallest jobs are taken.
So to hear someone say that illegal immigrants fullfill a role is insulting to me. You might as well call me lazy. When in reality they create an unfair market that is illegally obtained. (ie the employers of illegal immigrants and illegal immigrants themselves are breaking the rules that everyone else has to follow in order to obtain employment or employees.)
You might as well say “We need criminals because otherwise what would all the jailors do.”
It is simple. Every illegal immigrant that has a job in the US is stealing a job from an American citizen. Almost every illegal immigrant is aware that they are breaking the laws of our country but it makes no difference to them. This makes them theives at best and they should be treated as the criminals that they are.
Highly rated. What do you think?
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I generally agree with Dr. Paul’s beliefs accept this one. Implementing his plan for border security is contradictory to liberty and free markets. In order for free markets to work there must be free labor. This a another gov’t created problem where the gov’t presents itself as the solution by increasing gov’t (ie, border patrols, walls, etc). We’ll never solve the problem of illegal immigration until we discuss the conditions that allow the illegal labor to exist in the first place.
Fistly, if there are 12 million illegal aliens in America then that is a testament to our economic system. Markets, unlike gov’t, can not create anything artificial or unnecessary, if it exist in the market its because there is a deman for it and its fulfilling a NECESSARY purpose. The market has produced 12 million illegal immigrants because they fill a necessary purpose that otherwise would not take place.
Illegal immigration is an economic problem that is governed by the simple rules of economics of supply and demand and excarbated by labor regulation. It has nothing to do with terrorism or people trying to get a free handout, etc.
The US has a high demand for cheap illegal labor due to the costs the gov’t has created from labor regulation. Illegal labor saves US employers collosal amounts of money –which in turns allows the business to remain competitive, produce cheaper goods/services, increased profits, etc.
Hiring legal labor is extremely expensive, employers must pay minimum wage, half of the the employess soc. sec. & medicare taxes, unemployment taxes, etc. The gov’t has essentially artificially raised the value of cheap labor so much via labor laws that a black market of illegal labor has blossomed. Socialist, public entitlement, programs plus the birth citizenship law have only compounded the problem, such as welfare, food stamps, public education, public clinics, etc.
Ironically, the only solutions the gov’t has come up with is to make it more difficult for persons to cross the border –but recent studies have shown this only adds to the problem. More illegal immigrants have decided not to return to the home nation when they normally would have because the fear they’ll be unable to make the journey back.
I guess I could go on and on, but I hope you get the point. Illegal immigrants aren’t evil villians who come here to hurt the middle class, they come here because 1) they need a job and 2) someone is willing to hire them –its as simple as that. Any labor laws anti-thetical to individual freedom aught to be repealed. If the US had free labor with a free market, US employers wouldn’t have to hire illegals just to remain in business. Socialist entitlement programs should be repealed or denied to non-citizens (I favor repeal since these programs violate individual freedom and free markets).
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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William: ” Liberty and justice for all” applies to US citizens. If we have to pay more for goods produced here because of higher labor costs then so be it. We are a nation and as such we have the right to accept who we want and reject who we don’t want because our government will only work with a “moral populace’. (Thomas Jefferson)
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Williams is a true blue Libertarian.
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Who thumbs downed me?! Are you ashamed of who you are?
I actually have more respect for Williams than you fair weather Libertarians, or conspiracy theorist Libertarians. At least Williams knows the baseline theories behind Libertarianism, the rest of you are pretty clueless.
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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the people who support ron paul are not Libertarians, they are libertarians. There is a difference that you appear to have trouble understanding.
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When it comes to economics Ron Paul is a capital letter Libertarian.
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I guess we can just ignore the illegal part, and the huge criminal class part, and the drain on the middle class part, and the drain on services part, and the ……………….
The same logic applies here that Paul applies to all other situations. This tells me that you simply have not looked close enough at this situation, or are yet unable to distinguish between symptom and causation.
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Be nationalistic will drive you into fascism
Warning: forgive me if I don’t write a good English is not my mother tongue,
Im Mexican Im a follower of the Austrian Economics, von Mises and of course Ron Paul, but I want to tell you my story, my mother lives in Las Vegas Nevada as an illegal alien, like most of the people she goes in the pursuit of the american dream, I apply for a visa as turist, and it was a very a hard thing I was refuse two times for people like me (low incomes) it is just Imposible to get a visa, and it doesn’t matter how much time you wait for, but we fight and we work in different ways to deceive the embassy of the US, finally I get it but my brother don’t.
I had visited the US 4 times since that, but I never stay and I dont want to, I just want to visit my mom, even my Mom pretends to stay for 2 more years, not all the families have the same luck, many son’s and daughter’s wants to see their parents but they can’t, so the illegal way is the only way, and love can more than any border and human law.
I know that it sounds too pretentious, but I cant assure you that be illegal alien in the US is one of the worse things that you can imagine, you lost your freedom, you lost your dignity, you lost many of the human rights and the only reason because racist people, because the people still believe that more people in labour will reduce the wealth, because believe that immigrants mainly latinos are bad people like drug deallers, thieves, drunks, did the World War II didnt teache you something, how can latinos be good persons if they are not free, depravation is the only that you can expect for a community like that.
Be illegal alien as a Hero and at the same time as a villain
My mom works taking care of a kid, they parents doesn’t have the time and the desire to raise him, this kid only receives loves from my mom, it is sad that this things happends, but for this American kid my mom represents more even than their parents and it is obviously that exist a win-win relation, all people wins with this situation, and American kid is getting the necessary attention and 2 parents are feel good for that, my mom earn more than in mexico and I could get an education as a result for that, my mom made an excellent work the father of the kid always says “She is the best” and He is very proud of his son and of the education (Values) and the ability to spoke 2 lenguages that he has.
I have americans friends, and I feel bad for the actual situation many of them loss their jobs and their businessess, but you must realize soon or later that freedom is the only way, to put barriers and walls never work, did you realize that today exist more freedom in China (economically), why choose the nationalistic way many of the people who signs the US constitution holds slaves (not Thomas Jefferson), Im not saying that all is wrong but there is not such golden age, if you really think as a Libertarian soon or later as Mises says realize that the State is the negation of liberty.
I know that Im not American but I can see why you succeed, and that is freedom, nothing else, if you stay away from this you will lose your essence, America is going bankrupt by the socialist and the people who wants to live Isolate, and I feel that even Ron Paul is going in the wrong way, He says that want to cut government expenses but vote for the wall on border, he says that wants freedom but not for labour, remember that patriotism in excess will drive into a community that do not think (fascism), true libertarians like Mises and Rothbard vote for individual freedom no State, no barriers, no immigration laws, no roads to serfdom.
I dont want a WWIII, I dont want a new global war, there is no necesity to be nationalistic, today we need reason, logic, love, freedom, not barriers between human beings, Im afraid that america is in the losing side, please dont let this happend.
Ron Paul is a genius, and a great person, but he has weaknesses and immigration is one of them, Im sorry but there is much work to do.
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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I understand you want to see your mom. I feel bad for your situation. Which does not change the fact that you, your mother and her employers are all criminals. The solution to your problem is for your mother to be deported to Mexico where you and your family can have unlimited access to see her whenever you like. Then the child could be cared for by one of the many thousands of unemployed Americans (or legal immigrants) that would like to have a job right now. Your Mother’s employers should have to pay heavy fines. Also, if they wanted to continue to employ your mother as a nanny, they could always move to Mexico with her.
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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well i want to be more clear on this, I’m not a criminal DJ, I do not live in the US, I never broke a US law, my point was that if the US will pass an immigration reform allowing people to get in and out of the country it will be less immigration, many people take their families and cross the border because they are afraid to lose them, or to avoid the pain that cause a separation, not all people get a VISA, i have one and I never stay beyond the permited time in the US. Ludwig von Mises wrote in his youth about this, the jews in Lemberg, Bohemia and Vienna suffer the same situation and he demonstrate that immigration increase considerably the economic activity, I know that is not my country I’m just a libertarian like von Mises, and believe me my mom return this year because we appreciat freedom more than money.
Ryan you are right and I dont want to avoid that excesive immigration is a 50-50 problem, the main reason for emmigration in Mexico is because our government is not doing the things right, if we improve our situation we will not have the necesity to emmigrate, but if you say that illegal alliens are the responsables for the bankrupt of the welfare, well I suggest if you support Ron Paul is because you are against the state, against the welfare and their social security service, remember that this is the direct result of keneysian theories, libertarians like Mises, Milton Friedman, Rothbard show us that immigration is bad when exist a welfare, and at least in my case my mom do not use anything not healthcare no schools, nothing from your government actually she pays taxes because she hopes that some day is going to be a reform, not all people are criminals, and if you want keneysian full employment you will have another great depression. I strongly recommend “The Theory of Money and Credit” to understand the crisis and the austrian business cycle.
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It’s true that I am against the welfare state. And both the Liberals here that created the welfare state and the illegal aliens that came here to live off of it are responsible for the resulting economic devastation, it’s 50 – 50 as you say.
I’m not trying to say America as a whole is totally innocent in this mess.
But still the problems that made the illegals poor, uneducated, unskilled, and unemployed in their own nation are being brought to us unjustly and creating the same mess here. Regardless what America’s Liberals think, we do have immigration laws on the books, and the illegals are violating them. It’s also true that America’s politicians have not been enforcing those same laws. But that doesn’t justify the illegals coming illegally. They all contribute to the problem.
If the illegals would do their part and address the route problem in their own country, vote the bums out there while we vote the bums out here, both Mexico and America can finally go forward.
My guess is that only if we vote the bums out here first will the illegals be motivated to address and solve the route issues there. Why? Because it’s so much easier to live on our backs than doing the hard work of fixing their own problems. As long as we tolerate it they will keep coming.
Therefore I say we need to be very tough on the illegals. Huge fines increasing with every additional illegal entry, visits to our jails, and confiscation of belongings, will be the only motivator that they will respond to. It’s not intended to be mean, though they will probably see it that way, but rather to help both nations go forward.
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Luis M, why don’t you apply your political determination towards your own government? Mexican laws and governance should be your focus, not American laws and governance.
The only reason you gave your opinion was for your own personal situation. As is the case with all other illegals in our country. Frankly, it shows a level of selfishness that borders on pro-Hispanic racism; that Mexicans are somehow superior to all other people that want to immigrate here. And that our laws somehow are unfair to “you”. Well neighbor, our immigration laws are not designed to suit neighboring nations or individuals with economic difficulties. Our immigration laws are intended equally to all people of every nationality, economic fortune or misfortune, race, religion, etc.. In short they are design to be fair to all. Illegals think only of themselves and not an iota about their victims; the American taxpayers, the low income workers who’s jobs have been stolen and who’s pay scale has been undercut. As well as devistating our health care system across the nation… For example, over 100 hositals in California alone have closed their doors forever due to bankrupcy caused exclusively by illegal aliens.
My advice is practice politics in our own nation and quit expecting America to share it’s very hard earned wealth with people that are either too lazy to fix their own national problem, all self-inflicted by the way, or that are to criminally minded to ever concider the damages they cause others all for their own personal gain.
I do not hate you or your nation, but I wouldn’t hesitate to deport your mom, or any other illegal immigrant, at their own expense… After imposing a significant fine for breaking our laws.
Highly rated. What do you think?
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the reason america is a better place to live than mexico is because mexican culture is inferior to american. history proves the point. americans would never have allowed a true dictator like santa ana to come to power but the mexicans were ok with it. mexicans live with corruption and political graft and consider it normal. when you eventually form a majority in this country then america will begin to suffer the same problems.
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Luis M., I hate to sound cold, but I have to agree with the sentiment of others. No visa? No guest worker permit? No legal way of entering this country? I’m sorry. That’s the breaks. How about if I broke your laws? What would happen to me? Let me post an outline of your immigration law and see if it’s correct:
Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:
•in the country legally;
•have the means to sustain themselves economically;
•not destined to be burdens on society;
•of economic and social benefit to society;
•of good character and have no criminal records; and
•contributors to the general well-being of the nation.
The law also ensures that:
•immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;
•foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;
•foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics;
•foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;
•foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;
•those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.
Does that about sum it up? Now, how about if we come there and violate your laws? It’s respect. It’s the law. If your mother ever hopes to be respected, she needs to stop being a criminal. Quite frankly, I’d be even harder than Dr. Paul. If you are caught in this country illegally, you don’t just get deported and sent back to your country to wait at the end of the line of the rest waiting to be permitted in. You don’t get a second chance. If you can’t abide by our laws to get here legally, I don’t trust that you’ll abide by our laws once you’re here legally.
I understand that your country is in turmoil, but how dare you think that our laws shouldn’t apply to illegals entering our country the same that they would apply to anyone entering yours. Many illegals come here and DON’T have the means to support themselves, they DON’T contribute to our society (taxes), they DO vote illegally (imagine that, wonder why some want to provide them amnesty). My family deserves for me to be able to put food on the table just as much as those in your country do. The more we pay out in welfare programs, school, medical care, etc., for ILLEGAL immigrants, the less that I’m able to give my child. How dare anyone think that anyone else’s family isn’t worthy of being taken care of the way they want to take care of their own. How dare anyone think that my hard-earned dollars should raise THEIR kids, instead of my own. No one should be rewarded for laziness, even in your country, as the case seems to be, since everyone wants to ignore the problem instead of fixing it. No one should be rewarded for breaking the law, especially not out of Americans’ pockets.
I, for one, WILL be trying to make a change and voting for RON PAUL. No one “deserves” what I have, nor do I deserve what others have. I deserve what I work for and earn LEGALLY. It’s not about equality, it’s about equal opportunity. So long as you’re legal, you have that opportunity and the possibilities only end where you draw the line for yourself. Otherwise, farewell.
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The fact that this comment is almost tied with “thumbs up” and “thumbs down” is very telling. I expect that almost everyone on this board is a Ron Paul supporter, especially the ones commenting and rating comments. Yet when someone says “I agree with all of Ron Paul’s stances except this one”, they get about 50-50 “thumbs up” and “thumbs down”. (Because Ron Paul is inconsistently libertarian on immigration.)
This shows that consistent libertarianism is growing in popularity. It also shows something else: the general public wants open immigration. They don’t want to deny additional freedom to some people because they are brown, and don’t speak English.
Will this degrade the standard of living in the USA? …Only if we keep paying half our wealth to parasites like Chuck Shumer, Joe Biden, John McCain, and Barack Obama to steal from us. …But if that’s the case, EVERYTHING degrades the standard of living, because there simply isn’t enough wealth to go around.
STOP TARGETING “ILLEGALS”, START TARGETING POLITICIANS.
NO MORE “DIVIDE AND CONQUER”!
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Ron Paul voted 6 times against putting troops on the border.
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O M G !!! Which border?
Was there a military invasion?
O M G !!!!!!
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No coyotes and Mexican drug gangs are not military, but their firepower is, anarchist.
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Anyone that wants to come to america and improve their situation can accomplish this in six years. I suggest that we offer a six year nonvoting citizenship to immigrents. No exceptions. Then they can take what they have learned and go back to their respective countries to apply that knowledge there.
I always hear the excuse that we are a nation of immigrents. Not entirely true. We are a nation of european immigrents that all had the same basic culture. Now we have no culture and are an undefined group. Mao Tse Tung predicted this about america many years ago.
ONE COUNTRY – ONE CULTURE
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Even European tribes don’t belong to where they are at now.
The French aren’t from France, the Germans aren’t from Germany, the English aren’t from England, the Russians aren’t from Russia, the Geeks aren’t from Greece, the Romans aren’t from Rome,…etc.
There is no such thing as a native, only ‘might makes right’. Unless you disagree with all advances in archeology made over the last 10,000 years.
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Let’s build a canal from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean and let all the crap from China be sales taxed to pay for it. The “Friendship Ditch” wide enough and deep enough for our aircraft carrier’s and subs to use.
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Love it!!!
To bad Congress will only allow taxing of “documented” citizens.
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A canal?
Welcome to the 21st century.
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The only border security America needs is surrounding Washington D.C. to pen in all of the politicians who are un-American. We have plenty of them. This would include the shadow government, NWO folks and heads of some corporations like Monsanto, AIG, Goldman Sachs and more. They need to be cut off from the rest of us so we can start afresh and anew…as a republic and be free of their psychopathic plans. These folks should be in therapy! There are psychological classifications for folks who think like they do, dare we call them leaders?
There is a defining difference between Americans and the corporation that is the federal government, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. America is one thing and the corporte government is quite another. Our government no longer represents us (hasn’t for years) or listens to us.
We need to strip them of their jobs and corrupt businesses. How would they like to have the experience of joining the unemployment and food lines, foreclose on their homes, no loan modifications, set up tent cities, not give them any loans for a business, feed them GMO food, put fluoride in their water, fly chemtrails WA D.C. so the air they breathe will cause illness and the ground they grow food on will be full of chemicals, give them a bit of HAARP, give them controlled media and TV to watch full of dumb down programs and propeganda, no internet, wire tap and put cameras up to watch their every move, no passports, submit their medical records so we can deny them care when the time comes, reduce their medical care and give them death counseling (they are all getting pretty old now), and no education whatsoever to retrain and retool. They can have the stinkin’ 10 mile radius they stole in the Act of 1871….just give us back America, the America we love!! the America that is full of good-hearted people who want to live in peace and not be the police of the world, antagonizing, disregarding and disrupting life everywhere and have no hint of “world domination” in our blood. Bring home the troops and let’s rebuild America! We’ve got plenty of work to do for all to be employed! We can pull together and do it…do it all for free, give and receive freely so all humans have their basic human needs met…nutritious food, pure water, housing, clothing, healthcare, education, a way to contribute to building strong communities across this nation. This is the American Spirit.
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And when the dollar crashes, as it is most certain to do, we will have a window of opportunity to be rid of the tool they have used for destruction the world over. We will learn to value ourselves and each other and not let the abundance or the lack of money determine our choices or decisions, but rather re-discover that what is of true value is us, humanity. We will take care of this earth with respect and have respect for all life everywhere.
Money is worthless sheets of paper or electronic blips on a cash machine. And we have let this control our choices and the quality of our lives? When we allow money to rule the world, God (Love) isn’t. Money is fake, just someone’s imagination that has captured our false belief in it. Love is real. We will solve poverty and elitism at the same time when we choose to believe in what is real.
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As a LEGAL immigrant I FULLY support Ron Paul’s stance on this.
It is a PRIVILEGE to live and work in this country NOT a right. And part of the privilege is OBEYING THE LAW. By definition, breaking immigration laws to get into this country should disqualify you from immigration.
Ireland and New Zealand both removed the birthright for children of illegal immigrants, via a constitutional referendum vote a few years ago.
I’d support birthright to children only for permanent residents and possibly parents on work visas (which is not to say I don’t think the H1B visa should be overhauled, particularly because employers VIOLATE terms of H1Bs and underpay the workers).
Don’t you all think the government’s spending would be better directed to increasing border security with more police, instead of spending $700 BILLION on the pentagon and a standing army that eventually begs to be deployed somewhere (hence Iraq).
I loved Tony Blair’s assertion that he still believed they did the right thing in Iraq, that they really believed that Iraq had WMD and had to act. If that’s his argument, why haven’t they invaded North Korea? There’s no ‘rumour’ about WMD, they’ve already detonated 2 atomic weapons.
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“As a LEGAL immigrant I FULLY support Ron Paul’s stance on this.
It is a PRIVILEGE to live and work in this country NOT a right.”
________________
Actually, foreigner, if your a citizen than it IS a right to live in this country.
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I agree with your 6 point plan, Ron. I would add a few things, however.
1) Punish all illegal aliens with stiff fines before deportation, to reimburse the tax payers as much as possible. In addition, we should consider confiscating belongings, such as cars and other high price belongings that the illegals have acquired while present in our nation illegally, and auction them off to the American public.
2) Punish all employers of Illegal aliens with stiff fines, loss of ownership of their business, and mandatory prison time.
3) And lastly, any repeat offender, in other words, someone who has already been deported once and has once again illegally entered America, should be treated as a foreign terrorist, on the grounds of Economic Terrorism.
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Ryan: Number 3 is a little harsh but I agree with you on #1 and #2. Maybe we should have them do a sentence of hard labor and then send them back to their countries instead of treating them as terrorists as you suggest in #3.
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Perhaps I am a bit too harsh. After 40 years of watching my past/present/and future stolen by foreign thieves, with the approval of our political ‘leaders’ no less, I’m past the point where I can be satisfied with a quick trip to the nearest border for immediate release. All I really want is enforceable laws that make it highly unprofitable for people to enter America illegally, so they don’t continue to do it. And for those that keep coming back illegally, repeatedly wasting Tax Payer money and Law Enforcement manpower and time, I’d like to escalate the cost to the illegal alien in question. At some point they will stop coming due to ever-increasing losses to their own wallet, not to mention their own personal freedom. In any case, I really want this nightmare of illegal invasion / and massive abuse of American tax payers / and casual disregard of our national sovereignty, to come to a swift and decisive end, very soon.
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Ryan you probably don’t remember but this country was built with immigrant hands. I find it quite interesting you impose your fringe conservative ideologies on Mr Pauls website. These “solutions” of yours are pretty darn wreckless and highly uninformed which can only cause more confusion in the problem rather than aide it. So instead of using some kind of strawman argument I suggest you get educated on the subject by learning the cultural and sociological history of the US, and take a couple political science and critical thinking classes at your local jc before you base your opinion off of watercooler hearsay.
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But we are in the present, not in the past. In the present we have current immigration and border laws that are being ignored and our country is suffering for it in many ways. Come to America, but come according to the laws we have. When in Rome, do as the Romans do….and that does not mean press one for English, free medical, cheap labor to cause our job market and standard of living to take a dive.
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I agree with your comment but it is one thing to suggest extremist solutions to an on going issue in American politics and society. Since people are already here and working whether it be legally or illegally, I feel that at this point in time that Americans are still to proud to enter the service job field because of the low wages. Can you honestly tell me that there are that many Americans and legal residents available to fill up all those low wage service jobs even with the current unemployment rate? There are so many discouraged workers that can’t find jobs but illegal immigrants still manage to get hired. Why is that? Obviously its not just the immigrants faults if you want can blame it on the media conditioned psyche of Americans. Work is work and competition is competition. Survival of the fittest right? This is the product of Milton friedmans you know what jk. I admire Dr pauls work ethic and I do believe he is on the right track to help the US but I feel that he will need the help to reorganize and rebuild America.
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When Americans have worked hard to build up their country and businesses, and have raised our standard of living, it does no one any good to contribute to bringing it down to a meager level. People come here because of what they have been told about our nation. It was attractive for the reason above. If they come here and contribute to its demise, then what will they have gained? Nothing. And those here, those Americans who worked hard to build it up, well, I can tell you they don’t want to see all their hard work destroyed by ignoring our laws that were meant to preserve and protect our way of living for the benefit of all who live here. There are people working at all levels of income and skill level in America, even before the illegal invasion, always have and always will. The current economic difficulties are not just due to immigration and border patrol laws being ignored. The irresponsible FED, govt, shadow govt and corporations are acting in collusion against the citizens here. They are globalists and not dedicated to America (only to themselves), whereas Americans love their country and the constitution that is the founding document by which decisions should be made to keep our country moving in the right direction…up and forward, not down and deteriorating as has been occurring. Illegals are just one of many issues contributing to America’s downfall. I’m sure no citizen, illegal or not, wants to be the cause to live the effect it will most certainly produce. All who live here, illegal or not, will be influenced by and live under the same saddened circumstances. When laws are ignored, there will be trouble to follow. We need to check ourselves to see if we are contributing to the trouble that is being brought upon us, or if we are making headway in getting this country back into the hands of “we the people”…and regaining our FREEDOM.
It is not an issue of pride. Americans have had a standard of living they have worked hard to support. Nothing we have accomplished has come easy and we don’t take it for granted. We simply value it. When something undermines it, we will react to what threatens it.
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The one thing people don’t know is that the amount of money pumped into the US economy by illegal immigrant workers through taxes and product consumption is greater than the money spent on govt services used by them. If anything this helps the US economy. While they do take up a lot of lower level skill jobs many cannot acquire higher education because there are restrictions that prevent them to do so. As far as the American standard of living goes that is not so much dependent on immigration but the actual talent and ingenuity of the workforce. By workforce I mean everyone illegal and all. You have your illegals that are exceptional that can create their American dream through hard work with restrictions and can actually create jobs like their citizen counterparts. Don’t get me wrong but I do like where you stand on the issue I just feel that its a little too late to have a drastic overhaul on immigration. These immigrants have become too much a part of the workforce and even americana. I do believe if people that already have lived here for years, have paid their taxes, have waited in line for residency and paid their fine for breaking the law, they should be allowed to stay for that fact that they have paid their dues. Like you said its a right not a priviledge. I’d share the same sentiments as you if this country were barely starting up or starting over. You’re right that this is not the most important issue at the moment nor is it the main reason for Americas downfall but I do believe some people get overwhelmed by the state of the world affairs and feel like they its out of their hands so this is the one issue where people can take their frustrations and take them out on others. At this point in time all we can do is just work together and just manage with what we have at hand. I love this country I really do but all greats fall not because of their people but because of their leaders. I like your heart and how you want to protect your home. I admire that a lot. Things are not so black and white anymore its all super complex and all this crap its just sad. But its late now. Nice debating with you. Hope to hear from you soon.
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*meant to say its a priviledge not a right.
Ps read what will says I feel very similar. He said it for me and didn’t even know it haha
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Keep in mind that illegals are also being taken advantage of in the workplace. If problems ensue, they have no voice, no leg to stand on to correct the issue. Illegals get these jobs due to businesses having a difficult time financially, so they are looking to pay lower wages. It’s not that these jobs are necessarily of less skilled people. They may have been filled by equally skilled people, but the illegal will agree to take less of a paycheck for work that was formerly paid at a higher wage. They can do nothing about it either, no voice. Best all the way around, for all concerned, to abide by the laws and come to America legally. They don’t have to hide and can live free.
Illegals are spending, yes, and this does add to the flow of the economy, but… when illegals come here it contributes to the lower of our standard of living, and it makes American shoulder the burden of their free medical benefits, then they are not helping our economy. The laws were written for a good reason.
One thing the elite want us to do to make their job easier in bringing down America so they can bring in their one world govt, is to get us fighting each other. That’s not something I’m inclined to do. This is what the elitists, globalists do prior to starting wars with other countries so they can tell the Americans we, our soldiers and military, must go in to settle the unrest in the country. Well, now they are trying to economically destroy America, then other countries and the world, get people fighting within, create chaos, unrest here with homelessness and joblessness, businesses collapsing on the rise, at every turn is some new battle between the American people and this govt’s administration, as dictated by the corrupt elite, the shadow government, people we never elect. The illegals and border issue is just a piece of the puzzle. The elite are making use of how illegals ill affect our economy and the mood of Americans offended to push the one world government agenda.
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Sounds like some of you are obsessed over what is a “privilege” or what is a “right”, you never consider what is right or wrong.
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Utterly ridiculous!
First off, peopleforgethistory, I am already University (SCU) educated. Spare me the baseless, not to mention mindless, Ad hominem ‘arguement’.. two can play that, you ignorant liberal talking-points moron.
Second, this country was NOT built by ILLEGAL immigrants… and Illegal immigration is what this “Border Security” discussion is all about.
Third, my solution is 6/9ths Ron Paul’s own words, and my 3 additional contributions go perfectly hand in hand with the argument Ron Paul makes.
Fourth, I make no apologies for wanting to defend my nation from foreign threats, whether those threats come here to blow up buildings or just steal that which is not theirs to take. We are a sovereign nation, like it or not. And we have a right to decide what the procedures are for immigration, as well as how many of each ethnic group we take in at any given time; so as to keep our “melting pot” status. It is the “open borders” gang that are the true racists, turning our nation into a “half-melting pot, half-Hispanic (all-criminal-half-Hispanic)” nation of Welfare enslavement for the Legal American Citizen/Taxpayers… including the Legal Immigrants. I suggest YOU get educated on the facts.
And lastly, as a disabled citizen, one who has seen more than a hundred California Hospitals close their doors due to the flagrant abuse of illegals on our Health Care system, I can no longer muster any sympathy for their own self-inflicted high unemployment rate, birth rate, and atrocious education system which leaves themselves under-skilled and in constant and ever-increasing need of financially help. That is the job of their government, and should not be imposed as a burden on the American taxpayer. It’s not our job to prop them up while they continue the same old flawed practices that got them into trouble in the first place.
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ONE POINT FIX to ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION: Fine the employers of illegals — problem fixed, done, over….
This was done in Kansas a few years ago and 4 large meat packing plants went bankrupt. Kansas begged the INS to stop. This border stuff is a big scam to get cheap labor with no labor rights. We just pretend we want to stop it. Fining employers would stop the problem in a week, but it would bring financial ruin, so we live with this “Let’s all pretend we really don’t want them, and let’s spend lots of time and money on this so most of our dumb voters will think we are really trying.”
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When it comes to immigration I’m in agreement with Senator Ron Paul. I was born in Massachusetts but also lived in a few parts of Florida and I can tell you from personal experience we need to completely rethink our position on this subject. I applied for a job in Fl as a project manager but was denied because I didn’t speak Spanish. Now you tell me how fair that is, I have traced my family tree back to the freaking mayflower. My grandfather like many fought in ww2. How fair is it that I’m denied a job because I don’t speak a foreign language. These illegals need to go and if they want to come back do it the right way. I don’t care if a child of illegal immigrants is born in this country, he or she is not a citizen. American citizens need to take back their country before it is outsourced to India or China, I know some of you will think that is wrong but it is not, Everyone has the right to the American dream, it’s just the one’s that were born here should get it first.
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Looking for work also and running into a lot of job descriptions I’ve not seen before like….bi-lingual preferred.
I applied for a city job yesterday, first day it was posted. 52 other applicants. Checked status today, 85 and growing! Job does not close until Jan 15 so you can imagine how many applicants there will be by then. On another city job, more than 1,000 applicants for one job. Jobs are also being reduced to PT and adding MA or BA degrees when not necessary for the type of work. Few jobs and all these stipulations further reduces job opportunities.
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Most jobs are looking for younger people. They are more up to date on electronics and start out with at much less pay. You’ve got to show them something that they don’t have, and that your capable of performing up to date tasks. Good luck.
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No problem with the up-to-date skills Sean or experience. Much more than young ones who just know what’s in the book and no experience. It’s the border problem, bi-lingual — catering to criminals who have broken the immigration laws and no enforcement. And this administration is a much bigger problem to businesses trying to stay in business by hiring PT. Double digit unemployment. Cost of living rising. Chaos…socialistic government full of liars is a complete failure. All the while Goldman Sachs employees will get in bonuses something like 1/3 of the GDP.
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Well all this stuff happened because of George Bush, but I agree that there could be extra steps taken to fix things not faster, but better.
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Not really Sean. It happened because of the government that operates and has operated in the shadows. Presidents are appointed, not elected. Elections are fraudulently modified by adjusting the voting machines modems and the media, owned by the same shadow elite, controls who gets focused on…and as in the case of Ron Paul when he was surprisingly ahead…focused away from. Presidents are speech givers. They say what they are told to say and do what they are told to do by the elite behind the scenes who control the game. Been this way for years, and when they don’t….well, JFK.
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haha, ya rahm emanuel’s the main elitist holding obama hostage.. To be truthful, I think every administration is it’s own gang.
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Suit wearing Gangsters and Banksters.
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A congressman uncovers two buried studies showing the impacts of illegal immigration, smuggling
http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/threats-and-degradation/Content?oid=1624502
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This post speaks to the murders of our US Army troops today. We need to have a nation of common heritage who share the traditions and values of this country. Obviously this guy didn’t share those values and I wonder about his Palestinian parents. I say “America- Love it or Leave it”!
Are we in a war on terror? We always have been as Christians and Americans. Ephesians 6:12 “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places”.
Please pray for our country this weekend and ask that we all seriously reconsider our great Judeo-Christian heritage!
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Anyone who enters the country with no intent to gain lawful citizenship, obtains services paid for by US tax dollars when they themselves do not pay taxxes, and contribute to a percentage of a foreign contries GDP by sending their earnings back to that country is by defenition a terrorist. These domestic terrorists need to be dealt with by, instead of the focus given by homeland security on citizens.
STOP THE TERRORISM NOW
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We are not against anyone, no matter the color, making a good wage in exchange for the work they do. We all need a wage that supports a decent way of life and to enjoy living. What we are against is the corporate mindset, of making huge profits off all of us and not paying us decent wages for our contribution to the “corp”. We are against the corps using the influx of other nationalities to justify lowering the wages for any of us! It is taking advantage of all of us and lowering our standard of living. There are those of us who have lived long enough to see the decline. At the same time, we have lived and worked long enough that we thought we were working hard towards something, our version of the American Dream….but it is vaporizing…due to the corporations. Our American government is also a corporation, as in the Unitied Kingdom. Only fairly recently have many of us uncovered this little secret that explains their attitude towards us, the not listening to us, and giving us programs that sooner or later go broke, even though we have paid into them… to eventually get something out of it, to find it was all a scam for all those years of deductiosn from our paychecks. The healthcare bill will be no different. The U.S. government, a federal corporations has so much fraud, so much mismanagement, using the dollars from ordinary hard working Americans to bailout corporations (who have made the financial mistakes). These corps should pay for their own mistakes instead of sucking what little personal wealth we may have. So we all have basic needs that need to be met…all of us do…and we all deserve fair treatment in the workplace.
Check out this video series on the corporations, Psychopath, Inc. These corps we work for actually contribute to pollution and poverty…not wealth for you and me. They are not interested in that. They are interested in making their shareholders happy and wealthy.
We really don’t want to be fighting each other, which is what they want us to do, we really want a system that values and appreciates all of us and allows all of us to enjoy a good life. We all deserve it. Somehow the system has to change!
http://www.livingquests.com/
(righthand column, scroll down towards bottom for links on corps)
http://www.livingquests.com/america/UNITED_STATES_OF_AMERICA_corporation.html
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ive worked as a drywall finisher and painter for 26 years now i cant make enough money to pay my bills thanks to the illegal invasion they have beat the price down to nothing we use to make between 800 and 1000 a week now maybe 400 if your lucky to find a job. no one talks about the fact the illegals brought h1n1 to america and will kill an estimated 90 thousand americans this should be a terrorist act. we need to go to war.
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That h1n1 statement was the most ignorant thing ive heard this year. An estimated 90 thousand? really you believe that? The swine flu isnt even that bad unless you have a bad immune system i didnt die and i didnt get it from an illegal i got it from a white person. America needs to go to war against idiots like yourself forrester. Have you ever thought about it from their side? America is the land of opportunity, in Mexico it is dangerous as hell, would you want to live there? No. Do you know what the wages are down there? No you dont? Do you know the living conditions there? No. If you had the chance to move to america to better yourself or you family wouldnt you take the opportunity. Yes you would because thats what a real man does, he takes opportunity and makes the best of it when he see’s it. If you cant make it as a dry wall finisher and painter then learn some new skills. Mexicans specialize in things like that so pick something that they wouldnt do and your problem is solved. Quit crying, life is tought so deal with it and quit being a baby. Without mexicans the country would be crap because WE do all the stuff YOU dont want to do. Because you think its gross or it doesnt pay well. WE actully work hard for what we have. Even if the pay isnt great we still do it, we dont sit around like some white or black people and collect welfare and unemployment checks. When you see a homeless man on the side of the free way if he is white he is holding up a sign saying “spare change, im homeless and want help: or some other excuse to sit on their a$$ and collect change. If you see a mexican the sign says “will WORK for food or money”. White people are so ridiculiously lazy and are so quick to blame everybody else for THEIR problems. Mexicans, blacks, and other races of that sort have it WAY WORSE than you. You have no idea what it is like to have white people constantly talk trash on your race because they are willing to do work for a cheaper wage. We arent greedy with our wages, we work for what we have and are happy with what we get. We dont sit around and cry all day, we get up and find a job. Forrester you need to stop blaming others for your problems and get a better job if you dont like all the illegals with swine flu taking your opportunities. Maybe lower your wages and see what their life is like.
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You’re ignoring the fact that he was making it as drywaller. Like too many people you’re ignoring the blow the economy takes by underpaying people, creating more poverty and a diminished middle class. You’re ignoring that corporation owners make higher profits than ever through outsourcing and hiring illegals they can pay next to nothing to do the same jobs. Why should people be happy with their way of life decaying? Granted things are worse in Mexico, but they are also worse in an unfortunately large part of the world. Should we bring all of them here? And then when illegal immigrants from say china are working at jobs for half as much as those from Mexico would you take the same approach and say “i guess WE’RE just lazy and undeserving of decent pay?” No.
You obviously have a racist biased that over rides your logic, if you have any logic that is.
My father worked construction until his employer told him he was more of a liability than an asset due to failing health. While i was growing up i was always around construction workers, and it was about 50/50 whites and mexicans. Now the only white people on the job are typically foremans. We will do the jobs, we do do those jobs, but not for shit pay, we shouldn’t have to (and thats coming from someone who’s never had a job above minimum wage.)
As for the welfare issue, i’m guessing you’ve never been in a welfare office. If you were you’d no that it is mostly filled with mexicans, and a couple whites or blacks.
He was talking about ILLEGALS not MEXICANS. As a matter of fact he didn’t even mention mexicans. You made it racial.
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Kassie, you are a racist whether you realize it or not. My family came to this country legally. Fought and earned everything they have through hard work. Being an American means having the right to give up your job, your time, or your money to help people…if you so choose. As General Fox has invaded this country without firing a shot, many Americans like the one you responded to have been FORCED to give up their jobs, money, and time. The differnece is choice. The issue is legal entry to this country. Consider that as someday your HARD EARNED money doing work that others dont want to do is TAKEN from you to pay for someone elses’ illegal activity. That is the reality of the illegal immigration problem.
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Kassie,
Believe me when I say, I know and understand exactly what you are saying and trying to say, but you cant put all your emotions when you are writing. You must look at it from all angles.
It is ashame that ignorance still runs rampant in this country, the land of “oppurtunity”….But its here and not going anywhere.
You do come off a little racist, but again I get it. I understand because nothing pisses me off more than seeing people take advantage of the system we have put into place to help people that really need it.
I agree with a lot of things that Ron Paul stand for, but immigration will always be that catch 22. What every race and ethnicity needs to understand is that they are all IMMIGRANTS too. So if anyone needs to get out, its everyone else but the Indigenous Americans (natives like Sioux, Cherokee, Apache, even Aztecs)…For all the ignorant people, please pick up a simple history book and you will see that this land was never “founded” it was taken from the rightful owners.
The way I see it, Immigration should be allowed under certain circumstances….Lets take Mexico as an example. Mexican immigrants should be allowed to come into this country, given that they pass a complete and thorough background check between both nations. Once that immigrant is allowed in the U.S. they will be responsible just like every other American to be able to pay taxes and not be paid “under the table”…They will be held accountable just like every other American citizen. Now this leaves a hole or gap because then we would have to pay the new Americans the same wage as other Americans and that is the catch 22.
Americans will never do the jobs that immigrants do, trust me…Ive picked fields and fields of tomatoes, watermelons, onions, and pecans in fall…Ive worked the field for a long time, hauling hay, plowing, raking, and got paid damn near nothing…
Ask an American if they will work an onion field for $.10 a pound, nope….
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An early scene in “The Man Who Would Be King” takes place in the office of an English colonial administrator in India. To stay cool, he had a big fan over his head flapped by a servant via a string attached to the servant’s toe. That’s pretty great! If wages weren’t so damn high here in America, I could have my own Untouchable toe-fanning servant too, instead of having to use my boring, totally uncool electric fan.
Think of all the other hundreds of millions of jobs that could be created in America if wages fell to 19th Century Indian levels!
Of course, I couldn’t actually afford to pay my toe-fanning flunky the full cost of what it would take for him and his family to live in America, but I believe the externalities of my servant’s existence should be borne by the public at large, not by me. Thus, my worker’s kids should get free schooling, the whole family should get free health care at the emergency room, his tenement should get fire and police protection, he should drive without car insurance, etc. Why shouldn’t I cost shift my conveniences on to everybody else?
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Kassie has the perfect point.
All his opponents, listen up.
How esle would you react if all cheap laborers you see is from freaking Liberiya (or whatever that country is) or Central America? Do you see any Germans or Britts?
It is a fact that those “immigrants” just pussy-out from their own place due to their lack of resistance to their own country problems. If they so hard working and honest – let them built their own “USA” inside their homeland. Stop freaking rhetorical BS about “we all immigrants”.
Whoever granted entry pass legally should be working. But look WHY and WHOM making these “entry quotas”. What is going on in this country? Is this is some sort of demographic meltdown that we, the citizens of this country need such large human injections year after year?
Why do we need SO MANY immigrants?
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When all is said and said all over again the only way to stop all the madness and get us back on track is to wake up our elected representatives. The only way to get there true attention is to remove the ones there now. Do not vote them in. We need action. We need a Ron Paul and all that support him to get our America back. Whatever you call yourself DEMS,REPUBS,RIGHTY, LEFTY, CONSERVATIVES, LIBS ETC. If we want to be a free Americans we better get it together and focus on the right leadership!
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I agree, but for whatever reason there some shit is boiling and some states unable to vote for Dr. Paul or Ralf Nader. I am sure I’ll vote for him whenever possible.
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Well i would say this. Any person in the world who believes in and is willing to dedicate their lives to, and if necessary die for the defense of the principles of freedom and justice established in the Constitution of the United States of America should be welcomed here.
Any person seeking to immigrate here for the simple purpose of financial gain without any dedication to these principles, along with every US Citizen who was born here, and is eating up the socialist bullshit created by our banks and promoted by the politicians they control, who would make us like all of the other hopeless and miserable places in the world, should be deported, along with those who create and promote the bullshit.
America is the single and only country in the world, which created for the purpose of establishing individual freedom for its population, and is the only state which at least in theory, serves its population, instead of the other way around. Those willing to support and defend this purpose are the ones who have the right to be here, regardless of where they come from.
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Dude, i just gotta say i dunno. I hate to agree, but i think i have to. I mean, it makes sense what ronnie says here, but it sounds so nazi, yknow? A bit of a moral dilemma I spose. I would like to know exactly what kind of facilities dr. paul plans on putting in place to allow for legal immigration. How much immigration will be allowed? How much will this COST? Aren’t the illegal immigrants who ‘take advantage of our healthcare and school system’ also paying income taxes for the jobs they do?
Furthermore, I’d like to know how many people would like to have to pay US citizen’s wages for the jobs that the illegal immigrants do. any takers for a 100 dollar-a-night stay at the friggin motel 8?
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The president is giving away our country, and our security. Don’t listen to the things he says, watch the things he does. He has lied about everything he said he was going to do, and has almost done the complete opposite of every campaign promise he has made. He will not close the border, he is on record as saying he wants a govt run program that will get rid of private insurance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
Dont trust this guy. Hes got some stuff up his sleeve that will destroy America
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Truer words were never spoken!
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The president is giving away our country, and our security. Don’t listen to the things he says, watch the things he does. He has lied about everything he said he was going to do, and has almost done the complete opposite of every campaign promise he has made.
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The government has purposefully left the border open. This way they can do what they always do to foreign countries when they go in to destabilize the country first, start a war, then take it over with a new government. In case you haven’t noticed, America is in a destabilization process.
They get the people to fight amongst themselves, even kill each other, cause utter chaos so they don’t band together as a mighty force against the workings of the cartel. Saves the cartel running America these days lots of money to destroy a country in this way.
They have no personal interest in anybody except themselves. They aren’t even genuinely interested in the healthcare issues, only in that it causes us to fight each other and it’s distracting so we don’t notice all else the cartel is doing and put the pieces together.
Next in their plan…a new government for the North American Union with UN involvement.
So if you know this, do the opposite and band together as a mighty force against the workings of the cartel, all and everyone. They just use people as a means to their end. Their only interest is that we comply as expected, mind-controlled. But think for yourselves human to human and practice non-violent, non-compliance.
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“the problem with government conspiracies is that bureaucrats are incompetent and people can’t keep their mouths shut. Complex conspiracies are difficult to pull off, and so many people want their quarter hour of fame that even the Men in Black couldn’t squelch the squealers from spilling the beans. So there’s a good chance that the more elaborate a conspiracy theory is, and the more people that would need to be involved, the less likely it is true.”
-Michael Shermer
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-people-believe-in-conspiracies
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So why has the border been left open then, Sean?
Is it helping America with the indebtedness to China?
Is it helping Americans with high unemployment?
Or is it increasing turmoil, fighting and chaos?
So why is the healthcare bill being designed so illegals are paid for by paying Americans?
Is it helping Americans lower high healthcare costs?
Is it improving our healthcare system?
Or is it lending to fighting within this country with little effort and cost on the part of the government?
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The border hasn’t been left open. They just got finished building a fence across the border. They do patrol it, but like i said, it is an impossible task to monitor thousands of miles of land.
We aren’t having an exchange system for healthcare, no public option.. Besides, the house health care bill was supposed to be self sufficient. It would not be ran from tax dollars. It would be funded by people who buy the insurance. Illegal immigrants would of had to buy into the system like they do any insurance company. Their money would actually make it cheaper for everyone else. The bigger the system, the cheaper it is.
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….From the guy who knows nothing about everything.
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Sean –
You do not realiz that the health care reform punishes small businesses by leveling large taxes on them and requiring they purchase insurance. It also taxes you and I to pay for the health care of those who do not pay taxes (illegals). Also it is a mandate by the government for you and I to HAVE to purchase something or be fined while those who do not and WILL not work or can claim they don’t work (illegals) have to pay nothing. Also you do not realize that people who currently work and pay lower costs for employer provided health insurance will not be subject to a tax on the health care provided by their employer. So this bill does not pay for itself. If you work as I do then you and I will pay for those persons who do not and will not work. Also by claiming the bigger something is the cheaper it is you are showing a lack of understanding. The bigger more complex a system the more expensive it is to maintain and the more prone it is to waste, malfunction, and collapse i.e. the banking industry, the US government, CONGRESS. Please take the opportunity to understand LIBERTY and what the FOUNDING FATHERS intended for you and I and it is not what we are getting and what the Obama administration is attempting to give us. We need to oust Nazi Pelousy and Scarry Reid and MouBama before our liberty and our freedom are just a fond memory of the good ‘ol times!!
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Brandi-
I wrote this when the public option was off the table and we were considering a co-op.. Yes I agree with pretty much everything you say.
I believe we should reform the health insurance corporations instead of creating government competition. We need laws to protect the people instead of government handouts.
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But yes, the bigger the co-op system, the cheaper it would become. Just look at the the co-op system we have for car insurance.. It is designed for people at high risk who can’t afford regular insurance. It works just fine, and is cheaper for those who need it… Even Ron Paul was for a co-op system.
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hmmmmmm interesting.
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Yes, isn’t it. Notice that the U.S. president has been visiting the Canadian and Mexican presidents lately? The North American Union (a step like the EU in Europe towards the new world order, one world government) already exists (Bush created it all by himself without congress and without American’s voice, 2005). It consists of Canada, Mexico and the U.S. It’s not talked about much except in the circles of the secret societies that are busy creating the one world government.
Two brave guys report on it openly.
North American Union – Lou Dobbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtqAOUvUtZ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwqjARS-SfE&feature=related
CNN-Lou Dobbs- Obama Backing North American Union Agenda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgGEv-cdoms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyz22I6dgcY
North American Union Question For Ron Paul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y30k3nkk54
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That is unbeleivably scary and I sadly think it is all true! You are completely on the money when u say they only care about themselves. They are psychopaths and it seems to me that it is impossible to rise to the top in politics and business unless you are a psychopath or a narcissist with no concious whatsoever.
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I believe that everyone should be free to live where they want.. I understand how immigration can be a problem so we do need rules, but we shouldn’t totally spend all of our time and efforts to prevent people from coming over here. Besides, it’s impossible to achieve such a task. We should enforce the rules, but not overextend our capabilities. Illegal immigrants aren’t supposed to be able to get welfare, but they forge documents… Thats a strong argument for a national ID.
You might as well call martial law to find all the pot smokers and all the 10′s of millions of people who are breaking the law.
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Here are some facts about the “what these presidents have in common post:
http://www.searchforthefacts.com/2009/09/hoover-truman-and-eisenhower/
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Why is everyone so against illegal immigrants, but indifferent towards/silent about the big American corporations that drive them here?
http://johnperkins.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gptzlaG1OE&feature=related
Why do you only cry about your own injustices? How can people expect to be treated fairly when they are unfair towards others? For this reason, I feel I’m giving up. White people just hate everyone else.
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Who would complain about illegal immigrants if there was not enormous welfare expense we pay for them? It’s economic sensibility not racial hatred! I want my money for my family not for the welfare that I pay for illegals thru taxes…my taxes
should go to Americans if anyone. How is that too much to ask?!
You want to blame corporations for creating jobs that get stolen? They are able to get the cheaper labor because it is illegal. You want to throw a blanket statement out about white people hating…you have no logic.
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actually… Illegal immigrants pay billions of dollars of taxes that they don’t get a return for, and they take the jobs that we don’t want. ANY american can get a job over an illegal immigrant. I would be more happy to hire more typical male construction workers, but there just isn’t a high demand for those jobs.
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American workers are more productive. It doesn’t do any good to hire cheap labor if it takes twice as long to get a job done. Trust me, we have been searching for QUALIFIED workers.
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Facsinating comment though
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To reduce the amount of financial assistance provided to the Government of Mexico in response to the illegal border crossings from Mexico into the United States, which serve to dissipate… (Introduced in Senate)
S 91 IS
111th CONGRESS
1st Session
S. 91
To reduce the amount of financial assistance provided to the Government of Mexico in response to the illegal border crossings from Mexico into the United States, which serve to dissipate the political discontent with the higher unemployment rate within Mexico.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
January 6, 2009
Mr. VITTER introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations
A BILL
To reduce the amount of financial assistance provided to the Government of Mexico in response to the illegal border crossings from Mexico into the United States, which serve to dissipate the political discontent with the higher unemployment rate within Mexico.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. BORDER CROSSING ACCOUNTABILITY.
(a) Estimation of Annual Illegal Border Crossings- Not later than 30 days after the end of each fiscal year, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, shall estimate the number of illegal border crossings that occurred during such fiscal year along the southern land border of the United States.
(b) Reduction of Foreign Assistance-
(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided under paragraph (2), the Secretary of State, shall proportionately reduce the amount of financial assistance provided to the Government of Mexico for each fiscal year by a total of $1,000 for each illegal border crossing from Mexico to the United States during the previous fiscal year.
(2) EXCEPTION- Notwithstanding paragraph (1), the Secretary of State may decide not to reduce the amounts appropriated for the Government of Mexico from the International Military Education and Training Fund, the International Narcotics Control and Law Enforcement Fund, and the fund to carry out nonproliferation, anti-terrorism, demining, and related programs and activities.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:9:./temp/~c1114KQcgE::
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Charlie,
I am sorry you do not know your history and can only bash other people for thinking differently than yourself. You know nothing about me, you assume that I am black or Hispanic, which would be incorrect. You bash me for being ignorant, yet you have obviously fallen for the history that school teaches, which is nothing more than propaganda with specific goals of keeping the population ignorant to promote consumerism. I disagree with the entire system of paying taxes for the government programs you believe me to be on. I do not want to pay taxes to support a system which rewards people for laziness. This problem goes much farther back than just our grandparents, find out about real history before you rant. I myself come from the illegal immigrants I spoke of, we invaded and forced our ideals upon the existing local population, without their consent, and then destroyed or came close to destroying many of their societies. In some cases we committed genocide. I do not condone the actions of my ancestors in this, but I do not hide from the reality of what they accomplished. Yes they worked hard, they did good things as well as bad, and just because we have chosen to ignore the bad parts, does not mean they never happened. If we work on making these people legal, then they will become citizens, subject to our laws, then we have no cause for complaint, and better recourse if they break them. I have met and spoken with many of these people, and in many cases, they are illegal because they were denied their requests for legality even though their families were here. Most of them work harder at jobs we would not want for less pay, and think it is better than where they came from. Many of our current laws restrict our rights as humans, and this is one of the many. I will not bash you for your opinion, because even though I disagree, I value your rights. Your anger is only useful if you are going to fight, insults and condemnation are much of the reason we are in this mess to begin with.
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This is all a part of the destabilization process I believe the government is using to their ends of the NWO. If they divide, then we are not united in our humanity against the inhumane who are in high governmental positions right now, in every country…performing their work of tyranny. We have to start looking at ourselves as united in a cause to save our lives.
There is a much bigger issue than all the individual ones our government has given us to deal with all at once to cause the chaos.
This is a real attack on all of us wihtin our own country and worldwide. We are all soldiers now. Let’s unite as a force against tyranny. Do your research on the contaminated vaccine, please. There is a near blackout in the media, so it is up to us to share links and knowledge to those we love and care about, and people we don’t even know. I’ll probably never meet any of you face to face, but I’m sharing the info with you now.
http://livingquests.com
http://www.birdflu666.wordpress.com
http://www.theflucase.com
Join the discussion board to get worldwide input and info. This is happening globally.
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Discussion board at http://www.theflucase.com
Jane Bergermeister has file a case against the World Health Organization, Obama and others. We need to support her in her legal pursuit that is intended to help each one of us live.
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Everyone concentrates on the problems we’re having in this country lately: illegal immigration, hurricane recovery, alligators attacking people in Florida …
Not me. I concentrate on solutions for the problems. It’s a win-win situation.
+ Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border.
+ Send the dirt to New Orleans to raise the level of the levies.
+ Put the Florida alligators in the moat along the Mexican border.
Any other problems you would like for me to solve today ?
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Hey where did you get that quote? I wrote that!!
PLAGERISM!
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gust 20th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Deportation
What do these presidents have in common???—Surprised me!!!!
What did Hoover, Truman, and Eisenhower have in common?
Here is something that should be of great interest for you to pass around.
I didn’t know of this until it was pointed out to me.
Back during The Great Depression, President Herbert Hoover ordered the
deportation of ALL illegal aliens in order to make jobs available to American
citizens that desperately needed work..
Harry Truman deported over two million Illegal’s after WWII to create jobs
for returning veterans.
And then again in 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower deported 13 million
Mexican Nationals! The program was called ‘Operation Wetback’. It was
done so WWII and Korean Veterans would have a better chance at jobs.
It took 2 Years, but they deported them!
Now…if they could deport the illegal’s back then – they could sure do it today?
lf you have doubts about the veracity of this information, enter Operation
Wetback into your favorite search engine and confirm it for yourself.
Reminder: Don’t forget to pay your taxes…
20 million Illegal Aliens are depending on you!
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/…..-coop.html
There are now said to be 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in the US. Of the Mexicans who live here, an estimated 85 percent are here illegally.
Border Patrol vets offer tips on curbing illegal immigration
One day in 1954, Border Patrol agent Walt Edwards picked up a newspaper in Big Spring, Texas, and saw some startling news. The government was launching an all-out drive to oust illegal aliens from the United States.
The orders came straight from the top, where the new president, Dwight Eisenhower, had put a former West Point classmate, Gen. Joseph Swing, in charge of immigration enforcement.
General Swing’s fast-moving campaign soon secured America’s borders – an accomplishment no other president has since equaled. Illegal migration had dropped 95 percent by the late 1950s.
Several retired Border Patrol agents who took part in the 1950s effort, including Mr. Edwards, say much of what Swing did could be repeated today.
“Some say we cannot send 12 million illegals now in the United States back where they came from. Of course we can!” Edwards says.
Donald Coppock, who headed the Patrol from 1960 to 1973, says that if Swing and Ike were still running immigration enforcement, “they’d be on top of this in a minute.”
William Chambers, another ’50s veteran, agrees. “They could do a pretty good job” sealing the border.
Edwards says: “When we start enforcing the law, these various businesses are, on their own, going to replace their [illegal] workforce with a legal workforce.”
While Congress debates building a fence on the border, these veterans say other actions should have higher priority.
1. End the current practice of taking captured Mexican aliens to the border and releasing them. Instead, deport them deep into Mexico, where return to the US would be more costly.
2. Crack down hard on employers who hire illegals. Without jobs, the aliens won’t come.
3. End “catch and release” for non-Mexican aliens. It is common for illegal migrants not from Mexico to be set free after their arrest if they promise to appear later before a judge. Few show up.
The Patrol veterans say enforcement could also be aided by a legalized guest- worker program that permits Mexicans to register in their country for temporary jobs in the US. Eisenhower’s team ran such a program. It permitted up to 400,000 Mexicans a year to enter the US for various agriculture jobs that lasted for 12 to 52 weeks.
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Maybe we should just build a Walmart in Mexico.
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My Border Security is with God
The Illuminati Tsunami is fast approaching and nearly at our doorsteps, but I still stand on dry ground for which my Lord has parted the sea for me to walk in……….my eyes are on the sparrow and my heart is with the Spirit of the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!
forever Jan in Christ!
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All I care about regarding illegal immigration is that we don’t have any information about the people coming into our country! We need birth certificates, criminal records, we need to know these peoples’ medical histories, family, if we get information on them- it wouldn’t be a problem! But we have people bringing in illegal drugs, gangs, and illegal weapons! We need to be able to register the sex offenders coming in, or protect the immigrants from being threatened or treated wrongly. I assume they would never call the police if they have a problem due to fear of being deported! The U.S. isn’t a freaking theme park- it’s a NATION, a COUNTRY, and we need to protect it and it’s citizen’s first. I know some people are looking for a better life here in the U.S. and I’m all for that- but we really need to watch out that these illegal immigrants don’t get to act outside of the law or go unnoticed for their crimes due to us knowing NOTHING ABOUT THEM!
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I am with Ron Paul on about 80% of the issues. Low taxes, audit the Fed, free trade, engage with foreign governments, reduce military spending, increase personal freedoms. But the immigration issue really hits home with me, and unfortunately here we are in 100% disagreement. Furthermore, this issue is critically important to me, as a native Texan.
Ron, don’t you know that the only reason we have a flood of illegal immigration into this country is that NAFTA is 1-sided? In NAFTA, we explicitly forbid Mexico from subsidizing their farmers (which as free-traders we both agree is a good thing), but we explicitly allow the US to subsidize our own farmers (which to be fair we must both agree is a bad thing). If you’re so high on individual responsibility, don’t you think we should let our farmers (who are mostly huge corporations, by the way) stand on their own feet? Do they really need socialist government handouts? Well, if we stop subsidizing them, then Mexico’s farmers can go back to work — which they did just fine for hundreds of years, ending with the passage of NAFTA in the 1990s. Fair trade policy would mean a better Mexican economy, which would mean fewer immigrants (including illegals), and better relations with our neighboring country.
Why do you instead promote poor relations with Mexico, a bad Mexican economy on our doorstep, and by proxy, unfair trade policies? That is inconsistent!
Furthermore, why do you say engage with Iran and North Korea (which I totally agree with) but not Mexico? Can’t you see that is the epitome of hypocrisy?
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/282246/How-a-%22Very-Pessimistic%22-Ron-Paul-Would-Fix-the-Economy?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,DIA,XLF,GS,AIG
Your “No welfare for illegal aliens” idea is hilarious. It is based on a proven false premise — that illegals use more resources than they provide. The truth is the opposite — all research shows that illegals pay taxes but consume almost no government resources.
I agree that we should reduce illegal immigration. Because I care about people: American citizens like myself, family and friends, who work so hard and make good decisions in order to succeed and also Mexican children who die in the middle of the desert because of a socialist-protectionist trade agreement that we made with their country.
If you actually cared about illegal immigration (which you clearly don’t), you would try to solve it, rather than put together silly half-measures that “look” like immigration reform but under the covers are just useless propaganda. “Fences,” “no amnesty” — very cute, but show me a single example in the history of the Earth that anything like that has ever worked. Hmm, Berlin? Not so well. How about modern Israel? Hmm, failure too. Oh, what about Hadrian’s Wall for the Roman Empire? No, that collapsed.
Seriously, read some history.
What is so sad is that your approach to the “War on Drugs” is just the opposite. And there you are so right. Read a page from your own book and make an immigration policy that matches the brilliance of your drug policy.
Shame on you.
Please wake up and change your tune on immigration! If you do, you will find a lot more support from responsible, hard-working Americans!
I look forward to the day when we can be in political alignment, because you “get” so many of the important things. Just not this one. Try harder.
– Will
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Must be nice to get free everything , when do i get free health care ? Just like the vietnam people coming over here years ago , they got new house , car , healthcare and the dirty devils ate my neighbors german shepard . American born have to live in tent cities on the street …. Shame on you people that are running this country !!!!
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The Bible is a history book about people of faith. The Old Testament is a type and foreshadow of the coming of Christ. The New Testament was written for Christ-like followers. (Many religions go strictly by the Old Testament with behavior laws, even lawyers study the Ten commandments and most of our laws of the land also punish/jail/imprison people for breaking those laws) Love your neighbor as yourself. Christ came to stop the “eye for and eye” laws of the Old Testament. You didn’t see Jesus going around and killing people nor judging them, or punishing them. He allows the person to judge themselves, ask for forgiveness, get forgiveness and await the Final Judgment Day, when the Father God will either see your name written in the Lamb’s Book of Life or it is not.
Your other question on “seed” is a complicated issue. I believe in the sanctity of marriage for pleasure and for procreation. When sex happens outside of marriage, its possible that pregnancy can and probably will occur. Then what? Hide the seed by destroying the possible offspring or be responsible.
Sex can be additive just like drugs,nicotine, drinking and gambling. I think they ought to teach “responsible sex”, to prevent abortion. And marriage should be the goal to prevent loneliness and to continue the human race. Loving each other should be the goal and getting through life’s problems with the person you love. Commitment should be the cement in a marriage.
There is a $1,000 fine to destroy an Eagle Egg in the nest.
How does that compare to a human life destroyed in the uterus?
Insurance and Medicaid pay an abortionist big bucks to destroy potential human life. I think, if as much or more value would be placed on a babies life, and the two people who want their babies life destroyed, were to be fined $10,000 for every abortion….I think it would stop most abortions. I think head stones should be made and men and woman should be made to remember the child that they destroyed. A part of them died too, and there is no way to grieve that loss in our society. There is a wall in Washington D.C. for all those lost in a war….but the babies bodies that were torn apart have no name and have no grave and have no one remembering them, except the man and woman whose seed created them in the shadows of their minds or in their darkest dreams. Millions of our people are walking around with that guilt upon their souls, what does that do to a society of people? Jesus will forgive them……that is how much Grace the New Testament gives……but I think our nation would be better off if only in rare instances, did a woman have to have an abortion. It has only been 37 years since abortion was legalized in the USA. Take a look at that generation and our country and you can see how relationships have diminished, families have deteriorated, love turned to lust and hope lost to our youth for productive lives and committed marriages. I think there ought to be a National Holiday in remembrance of those who lost their lives in at the hands of an abortionist. And those men and woman who sacrificed their own souls and live with the guilt the shame and thought in having killed their own off spring. They need much love and need to ask for forgiveness from a God who is reaching out to them with open arms. When a government condones wrongdoing it does not omit what God thinks of it…because if God created us……it saddens him to loose even one of his own.
The Bible yes is a book that teaches ways to preserve the human life on this earth. To treat one another respect,with love, for a life that will bring harmony and peace upon this earth for generation after generation. We should be celebrating life. Celebration does not need to mean partying and getting drunk and getting laid…..!!!! Be thankful for life, and for love in your heart toward another human being that will not encourage more selfishness but more love and laughter and joy of being a father, a mother, a child, a baby.
Our minds, our lives should be preserved not destroyed. We should protect what we see, hear and do in our lives so that we bring only those things that are good for life into our life.
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Why did you focus that whole comment on abortion?
In all honesty, I dont really care at all about abortion.As long as it’s first trimester do what ever you want I dont care.
I have no idea how we got from talking about muslims to talking about killin babies.
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Tyler….MUSLIMS kill themselves to get to heaven faster….
Believer’s in Christ,don’t believe in suicide! “Thou shalt not Kill”, once your dead you can’t ask for forgiveness and we don’t believe in pergatory either.
Was Nietzsche into brainwashing? Sounds like it…I’m a thinker so that doesn’t work for me ….
Neitasche….was he into brainwashing? Sounds like a motive ….to steer people away from being a free thinker..or a thinker at all….
Grace is much different than legalism…
We don’t believe in an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth either.
Sad, that that Abortionist doctor was killed for killing!
Whoever did that was not very Christan, cuz there again “eye for a eye” thing was happening…Two wrongs don’t make a right…..
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Friedrich Nietzsche also said:”The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.”
Yeah he sure does think that one shouldnt be a free thinker at all…(sarcasm)
Dont be so quick to call abortion murder(i’m caught in between the issue so dont call me pro-life or pro-choice) becuase as a society we must decide what constitutes life. Is a fetus capable of thought? I have no idea, but if it is capable of thought abortion is deffinatly murder. But what else could we deem “human life” (SEXUAL CONTENT AHEAD READ WITH CAUTION!!!!) Everytime I use a condom or masturbate i’m wasting sperm that has a chance at becoming life. Is that murder? Everytime a woman has a period she wastes precious eggs that also has a chance at becoming life,is that murder?
But correct me if i’m wrong didnt the old testament say Eye For an Eye=Justice????
last but certainly not least…………
NOT ALL MUSLIMS KILL THEMSELVES FOR 72 VIRGINS, JUST THE BRAINWASHED BONKERS ONES!!!!!!! THEIR ARE PERFECTLY NORMAL MUSLIMS THAT GO TO CHURCH EVERY WEEK WITHOUT EATING BABIES OR BLOWING UP NEW YORKERS!!! HATE AL-QUEDA NOT MUSLIMS.
Doesnt the bible teach us to be non judgmental and loving of all people, muslim or jewish? Doesnt the bible teach us that we should be getting along with each other????
Be christ like not just christian. Practice what you preach and stop pretending all muslims are amoral demons. Because its simply not true.
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Family axes wedding plans, Egyptian cuts off penis
By SARAH EL DEEB Associated Press Writer The Associated Press
Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDTCAIRO (AP)
— A 25-year-old Egyptian man cut off his own penis to spite his family after he was refused permission to marry a girl from a lower class family, police reported Sunday.
After unsuccessfully petitioning his father for two years to marry the girl, the man heated up a knife and sliced off his reproductive organ, said a police official.
The young man came from a prominent family in the southern Egyptian province of Qena, one of Egypt’s poorest and most conservative areas that is also home to the famed ancient Egyptian ruins of Luxor.
The man was rushed to the hospital but doctors were unable to reattach the severed member, the official added citing the police report filed after the incident.
The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak with the press, added that the man was still recovering in the hospital.
Traditionally, marriages in these conservative part of southern Egypt are between similar social classes and often within the same extended families — and are rarely for love.
See what legalistic religions like Moslem or Islam does ……
assuming that he was. And those religions that are not based on God’s loving spirit, but on legalism….
Yah don’t see or hear of Protestant Christian’s going to that extreme..do yah Tyler……? by the way..have you ever heard of a war against Protestant’s ??????
So, far I don’t know of any! The Catholics, Jews, and Moslems have been fighting for thousands of years….but not us Protestants!
We are peaceful people! LOL
The wrong religion will get yah everytime! LOL
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Actually marriage originated as more of a legistic agreement between two families. Such as in ancient rome, india, and parts of egypt.
Oh yeah and its spelled Muslim, not Moslem, thanks for proving how much you actually know about other cultures….
And saying that protestants never do anything extreme. that was a joke right? I hope to vicious raptor jesus that was a joke.
Ever heard of the crusades, abortion clinic bombings, when protestant britain imperialised catholic ireland, or how about the holocaust(caused by german protestants), or the american indian genocide commited by the great ol’ U.S.A.(also mainly protestant) Damn you guys are remarkably peacful….
The reason these terrible things happen is because religion was formed by man, man has the potential to commit terrible atrocities, and those chances to do terrible things severly increase when man can justify his evils with an invisible ghost.
“The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. ” Friedrich Nietzsche
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Good, one less dick in the world.
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Have you ever traveled across the USA? Or to another country? If so, you would see that there is plenty of room available for families to live. There are not too many people taking up too much oxygen or using too many resources to go around. At least I do not see it that way, when I have traveled. Why are farms in the USA not farmed? I would think the farmers would be farming big time this summer, but …. Why do the wealthy get paid to buy up large pieces of land and not farm it? Why have the wealthy destroyed the farmers in the USA? Again the wealthy got greedy and took the middleclass jobs away…… or why is Monsanto allowed to make (GMO seeds)/alter seeds and piglets which will kill the population evenutally, our bodies can not assimilate food made from GMO seeds!
Why do Islams hate Christians?
Why do they want to die to be with Virgins?
Why do they hate Jews?
And if God is a Spirit, and he is, and that Spirit is Love, then what Spirit is their hate coming from?
It’s natural to propagate, its unnatural to kill their offspring.
It’s natural to love your children and to protect them from harm, its unnatural to prepare them for a suicide death or an abortion.
Like they are some sort of sacrifice, like cattle going to the slaughter.
That is why I as a woman do not understand wars at all. It makes no sense, and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
It goes against the joy of life and living. It is all about power and that alone will corrupt the minds of men, to do evil.
Have you worked in the workforce in the past 20 years?
Have you seen the power struggles amongst the working class with the new age human resource departments and the CEO’s over the workers? It’s not about competence anymore its about how much you can make for the company. Adultery and lack of ethics and lack of conscious rules now…….
What religion has a conscious would you say and which do not?
Is a conscious developed by getting to know God ? Or by being taught right from wrong by our parents? Our society?
Can a conscious get corrupted or lied to or deceived?
What does the Abnormal Psychology books say about those aberrations nowadays…..cuz 45 years ago I read that book and it seems like those pages must have been ripped out of the textbooks I read when I took that class in college!
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Again your talking about the Islam that has been raped by heretics. In truth the actual book of Quaran teaches peace, love, and the actual book doesnt say anything about recieving 72 virgins when you commit martyrdom(something that christians created by the way).
The muslim movement is a lot like the christians in the crusade days. Just a bunch of people who took the word of “god” and perverted it to their best interest. And they hate Jews because they believe that isreal is rightfully theirs because they were their first.(kind of childish.)Why not talk to some muslims about their religion? why not read the quaran? why not read up on anything thats not propaganda bullshit?
Yeah we have open space but we dont have enough resources to support every single person on this earth.
I suggest watching the documentary the 11th hour
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Tyler,
God wrote the Truth in the Bible by men anointed by the Holy Spirit. Truth is so simple, how religions came about.
God made us to want to worship Him. Jews were the only people who had the Ark of the Covenant and worshiped an “unseen”(Spirit) True God. Wars were fought with Jews and by other peoples, who didn’t believe as the Jews did and who worshiped Idols. Jesus was God in the Flesh, to bring all races of people to God for redemption.
God is a jealous God and will not stand for deception about who He is, and How we are put on this earth to find Him and to Seek Him and to be called His own.
Jews are just as stubborn as Moslems or Hindu’s or Buddah’s….they do not accept Jesus as the Son of God. So, wars continue over it…Fortunately, we in the USA allow the freedom of religion in our country. You can believe the way you want to. And so can I!
I have said for along time…being born in America, Caucasian, I cannot fathom, living in a country of just one race and one religion. But, I thank God for it, because, I would not have probably ever come to be a believer in Christ, had I been born a Moslem or a Jew or a Chinese, or a African. Not to say, many have come to know Christ in all the world, but they suffer more than we do if they do go outside their ingrained culture and find the True God.
All false religions hate Christians, not visa versa.
Man has created their own God’s and there are about 5000 different religions in the world.
Money is a God also,or should I say an idol, and its spreading it’s wings worldwide now! “The love of money is the root of all evil”.
Right now the Federal Reserve is seeing how great their “money God” is or can become! They are bringing the entire world, if they can, to bow down to the money God, which in the book of Revelations is called the “Beast” ( a third part of Satan’s Trinity)……
Christians are not in the Dark on what is going on and we are allowing it because its not something to get upset about, we knew it would happen before God takes charge and pours out HIS Wrath upon the earth to save the Christians.
This earth was created by God. It will be man that destroys it. Our life here is only temporary, I”m looking forward to living an eternity with God on this New Earth and New Heaven.
So,I am just watching and waiting to see what man does next!
While I worship The True Savior and continue to believe in the privacy of my home and heart and mind in Jesus Christ.
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what makes you think jesus was the only son of a virgin mother??
http://englishatheist.org/indexd.shtml
I’m pretty sure buddah’s mother mithra was also a virgin, making buddah the flesh of god. If i’m not mistaken, Hindu’s god Krishna was also born of a virgin mother, Devaki.
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You pretty much just said that chrisianity is more believable than any other religion so it is the truth and we should ridicule all other religions. Your trying to tell somebody that the easter bunny isn’t real but santa is.
We’re seen across the world with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other. Our country has the second to highest murder rate as a christian nation.
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oh bc god forgives our sins. I think we should scratch that part out of the bible. That just gives us reason to sin and justify ourselves.
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Why dont christians like you just kill themselves to get to the afterlife sooner? It would make this world a lot more heavenly.
What’s different than a picture of jesus and jesus the person? the picture only takes one nail to hang up.
lolololololololol
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Wow, the ant-theists are grumpy as hell.
I guess if I believed life came from nothing, I’d be grumpy too.
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Tyler:
Sorry to anger you! I disagree with you because your wrong saying that Islam and Christianity are the same, they are very different. If you will go into the website I listed above and watch the video on “Muslim Demographics”, you will see that they are proliferating rapidly. They have 8 children per family, we have 1-2. Their plans if you listen to their leaders is be able to have the largest population worldwide within 39 years. Then they will be able to take over the world. Since the war in Iraq they have dispersed worldwide. Have you been to Europe lately? or talked to anyone who is from their? Their agenda is to have eight children, who all get married and have eight more and they have eight more…..similiar to what the catholics did to rule the world also. While our country and other countries abort 1. 5 million infants per year….which of course they do not believe in. But, that way we are destroying our own population and now we will never catch up with them, its too late to do so……and they know it…..so as our economy declines, which they do not believe in capitalism or woman being educated or working either, so as they use their woman for breeding purposes only…they will be the dominant population in 30 years or so. That way they do not have to fire a shot…It’s not especially about their religion..its about how they are going about becoming the most powerful. While we are trying to fight the Taliban in the middleast that they do not like anyway……so we are preoccupied while they are busying breeding!
And, once they infiltrate the world, the workforce, the educational system, they will when the time is ripe, be the most powerful. They also, recruit in our prisons into Islam. That will affect our society as well.
I just think its something to be aware of and take notice that our borders are not closed to them, as they aren’t to the illegals either….so that is what our congress thinks of us…..I have witnessed a decline in our country of American doctors and nurses inour health care system ….there again…..our own hospital corporations have ruined the job market for American doctors and nurses…..they’d rather hire foreigners I guess and pay for their families and parents to use up our social security and Medicare and Medicaid…..then blame us , the Americans, that they have to hire foreigners, to do the work.
The same in teaching…..hoards of teachers are brought into our country to teach our children.
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When it comes to immigration I honestly dont care where your from,I just care how good you do your job.(As in getting my order right) And you talk about Islam like its some form of great evil. All of those things you just listed about Islam are very very ignorant, I suggest watching an episode of the show 30days(the one with Morgan spurlock) about this very issue. Islam has been perverted by heretics just like many sects of christianity. And you also talked about some kind of breeding…Race, I dont think you realize how dangerous this kind of thinking is. Most of my right wingy compainions dismiss any sort of environmentalism as left wing propaganda. But the truth is that America uses 50percent of the worlds resources. And if everyperson lived like an American citizen did it would take more than four earths worth of resources to support our skyrocketting population. Quite frankly we dont have enough room much room for more people(DAMN MORMANS!!!!)
So in short…. We need to make our borders safer but not hate on our illegal companions… Realize that Islam is scarily similar to christianity… And dont start a breeding race just because muslims and chinese have huge numbers. Thank you for not getting all hot headed against my previous offensive comments.
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islam, christianity, buddhism, sikhism, judaism, hinduism, candomble, bahai, jainism, mormons, paganism, rastafari, shinto, scientology, taoism,unitarianism. It’s all the same; each religion uses meditation practices to heal the soul. Meditating is actually really good for you. Your body is made out of energy which is controlled by your brain and perception. All MRI’s take pictures of your energy using magnets…
You reproduce trilions of cells each day. Negative thoughts can destroy and deteriorate your body making you more susceptible to diseases. The body reproduces trillions of cells a day. When you stress, blood flows into the bones of your arms and legs, which is blood that is used to reproduce your cells..
Praying has such a positive effect on your body and mind that some people have even cured cancer by meditating and using yoga practices. You can even pray for a loved one and it would produce positive energy and can heal that person a lot faster. Watch this video, you will find it amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkbpXRSIUnE&feature=PlayList&p=12F1C16D424512E0&index=0
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Sean,
thanks for the website, I checked it out and sent it out to friends…..it took me to many other sites for more learning and listening to relaxing music…thanks Jan
P.S. God is still God and the only begotten, Son of God is Jesus,who is God in the Flesh! (you’ll never get me to believe any differently)
not Mohammad, not Joseph Smith, not a Rabbi, not a sacred cow,not Buddha,not a male/female circle…….etc.
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no problem..
There is more life and movement in your body from one second to the next, than in all of the stars planets in the universe.
Here is a top cloning scientist explaining more about quantum physics and the body.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6568107389365915765&ei=TqUiSvrGIoG2rgLw7KmmCQ&q=bruce+lipton&hl=en
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Why a study and perspective of Islam is necessary ….
Muslims are increasing more than any other religious group in the world. Their growth rate is four times faster than Christians. Presently, those who practice Islam make up approximately one-fifth of the world’s population. One Bible teacher from England, after reviewing current demographics, commented that, “if present trends continue, half of all global births will be in Muslim families by the year 2055″. Something revolutionary is happening before our eyes, and most Western Christians are oblivious to it. Not only are Muslims the fastest growing religious group in the world, but also in the United States, Canada and Europe, with Europe perhaps being the model of where Canada and then the United States are heading shortly after.
Any simple examination of the present birth rates of the native Europeans versus Europe’s Muslim immigrant population leads us to one very clear and ominous conclusion: the Europe we have known is very quickly changing into what some refer to as Eurabia, where Europe will soon find itself under the power and control of Islam. The following short clip will show you just where our world is heading from a purely demographic point of view:
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/featureditem.html
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I am disgusted that our government is considering amnesty for the Illegal Immigrants who are in this country. Rewarding them for breaking our laws and draining our economy and most of all our health care. Yes, our health care. When an Illegal Immigrant (pregnant) has a child in our country, they have this child for free. When an American Citizen who is pregnant, who has no benefits because they lost their job, has a child they get a 25 thousand dollar bill! That American who paid taxes since the age of probably 15 years old should be the one who gets the break, NOT THE ILLEGAL. This country is so backwards and run by idiots! The more we stay silent, the worse it gets. If our ancestors would have stayed silent, slaves would still exist, and AMERICA would not exist today if our forefathers didn’t have the balls to fight for freedom! Think about it people. It’s just going to get worse. KICK THE ILLEGALS OUT! Good Bye, Adios! When an American Citizen does something Illegal, like ” Not Pay Taxes” the IRS/Govt. Goes after them and freezes their assets. hmmm. I don’t know about you, But I am really sick of the leaders of this country STEPPING ALL OVER THE HARD WORKING AMERICAN CITIZEN. With out us, there would be no country to begin with. remember that people! The time is now to stand up and fight for your freedoms!
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Lets deport all non english speaking foreigners out of this country and let foreign countries deport all americans back to the US.
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Let’s deport all non-Sioux, Lakota, Cheyenne, Yurok, Navajo, Wiyot etc speakers.
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