Illegal Immigration

13434 Responses




Illegal immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for our economic crisis. But with free markets and private property, the need for immigrant labor becomes obvious. Most immigrants, regardless of the color of their skin, are open to the ideals of liberty: private property, free markets, sound money, right to life, low taxes, less war, protection of civil liberties, and a foreign policy designed for peace.

Ron Paul proposed the following action steps for dealing with illegal immigration:

  1. Abolish the welfare state. The incentive to take a job at whatever wage available must prevail.
  2. Establish a generous visitor work program. Once we solve the economic crisis by introducing sound money, demand for domestic and immigrant labor will rise.
  3. Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards. Allow states and landowners to enforce the law and provide security assistance.
  4. Abolish birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents' home countries.]
  5. End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.

2610 comments
Devils Advocate
Devils Advocate

Those states that enforce penalties on businesses hiring illegal immigrants do have an effect on this problem: the illegals migrate to states that don't enforce penalties, making more jobs available to legal immigrants and unemployed citizens who pay taxes. This problem is only exasperated by prohibiting the enforcement of penalties based on the flawed premise that our economy is dependent on an illegal workforce.

ZackMaitland
ZackMaitland

Yeah, all of those people that are going to be KILLED in their "home" should just stay there and wait until they get approved, right? And all of those people that were brought here as children that work hard, go to school, and pay taxes should be sent to a country that they aren't familiar with? People that were brought here when they were three days old, that don't speak any Spanish, have no family in their "home" should be sent back to a country where they cannot function? You people cannot see past the idea of "all illegals are freeloading scumbags", the vast majority of them came seeking asylum from their country, but we're too inconsiderate to show them any sympathy.

cc0623
cc0623

Let's revisit this issue from a different perspective....

Illegal immigration is a symptom of a major problem. The United States is trying to deal with the symptom because the problem was created by foreign countries and the problem can only be resolved by that foreign country. Because foreign countries do not endeavor to provide a safe and healthy environment for its citizens to prosper the foreign nationals are forcing themselves onto other nations (The US in particular) as opposed to dealing with their own POS Nation. Now, nowhere does it state that ANY nation has the responsibility to take care of these fleeing foreign nationals, let alone the United States.

The illegal aliens are making a huge ASSumption that if they squat in a foreign nation and call it their home then they will be accepted as a citizen of that nation and that nation should accept responsibility for the care, wellbeing, education and general success of the illegal alien inasmuch as the nation would one of its own citizens.

Ace81
Ace81

@Devils Advocate Flawed? I guess you're entitled to your opinion, but don't state it as though it's fact. The farms and factories in states that are cracking down are unable to stay open, some because of lack or workers, others because they can't afford to pay more. Illegal workers artificially decrease wages, which helps keep inflation in check. Illegals aren't negatively impacting the economy, the Fed and big banks are.

Devils Advocate
Devils Advocate

@ZackMaitland

All your arguments can only be made AFTER a US company or citizen breaks the law by enticing illegals with jobs they shouldn't be getting in the first place. Remove the carrot of jobs and the problem of illegal immigration goes away.

Americanrev
Americanrev

@cc0623 Good thing you erased that other post I was about to respond and it would have made your post sound so dumb haha ;-) good thin you erased it

ZackMaitland
ZackMaitland

@cc0623 Yeah, all of those people that are going to be KILLED in their "home" should just stay there and wait until they get approved, right? And all of those people that were brought here as children that work hard, go to school, and pay taxes should be sent to a country that they aren't familiar with? People that were brought here when they were three days old, that don't speak any Spanish, have no family in their "home" should be sent back to a country where they cannot function? You people cannot see past the idea of "all illegals are freeloading scumbags", the vast majority of them came seeking asylum from their country, but we're too inconsiderate to show them any sympathy.

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623 Well you should know that Mexico has a no weapons tolerance nationwide. Cartels were created by American Drug addiction. ( This same people might be on welfare as there is no drug test to receive it ) Part of recent drug war was because California legalized Marijuana for their state cutting of supply for one of the 2 main cartels so now they are trying to take over the other region to recoup. Unfortunately Corruption is extremely high. There has been so many deaths of famous people standing up against them. There's been so many Public officials that have been decapitated only for doing the right thing. Even news reporters. Was is even sad is how they get their family put on death sentence for serving their people. There's been even american officials also put to rest. http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/20/us.fast.and.furious/index.html

This war is nasty its spewing over American borders. Shooting in American Territory and many Americans are not even aware of it. Shows the complacency we've grown into.

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE Oh yes Flouride is a horrible poison if not administered correctly. There is a lady on youtube.com that posted what fluoride poisoning did to her horses. I do not agree with Fluoride at all.

EvivE
EvivE

@ZackMaitland Well that's not real issue right now alot of small business are struggling to stay alive. The value of the dollar is hasn't really recovered yet. So of course more citizens want more money to keep their standard of living. Look at vending machines and compare prices to what they used to be 10 years ago. Most people would argue that they would rather keep small business afloat (for taxation yearly) that to let them get away with bankruptcy (true tax dollars lost).

cc0623
cc0623

@Americanrev@cc0623 I erased it because I double posted it. I am certainly not afraid of what you might have to say considering most everything you say is pathetic.

cc0623
cc0623

@ZackMaitland When did the US become responsible for every living soul on this planet? Do you not think their govt. needs to be taken to task for what they have allowed to occur to the citizens of their country?

firefox52
firefox52

@ZackMaitland@cc0623

. It depends on " who" is " they", to which group are you refering to? Please expand you statement . So that we can have some clarafication.

Americanrev
Americanrev

@ZackMaitland @cc0623 You are right most of these people don't have a place to go but some people like CC can't see that she is naive and she thinks taking over a country is easy. Most of these people are uneducated and have no idea what to do.. Out of everyone she should know since she is part native American and she should know the Indians lost their land because there lack of weapons. I would not be going to fight with kitchen knifes when they have machine guns. Most drugs that are muggled in it is US fault because they allow it. Like I said instead of worrying about another country they should worry about this country and bring our troops home.. Don't you think it would have been a better idea to get this government and mexicos government to work together and stop these cartel drug dealers instead of going over seas and find all the weapons of mass destruction. Haha wow. I still laugh at it. And to think people still voted for him for another term haha. He doubled our debt that second term.

firefox52
firefox52

@EvivE@cc0623

No it shows the failure of our Government to protect our borders and its peoples.

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE I am very aware of fast and furious and so are all the people I know that politically active. I suggested to I_American in a previous post a way for Mexican Nationals to gain control of Mexico again. He seemed to back away from the subject after that because I do not think he is interested in helping the Mexican Nationals as much as he is helping the illegal immigrants in the US. Apparantly the illegal aliens are under the delusion that just because they assume the role of a citizen they should be called a citizen or be accepted and allowed to become a citizen. And, if the invaded nation does not accept this forced and coerced responsibility then they shall be known as racist haters and inhumane. Yet, the illegal immigrant does not call their own country inhumane for the treatment they received at the hand of their own govt. and fellow citizens.

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623 Only in America. I blame ADHD on bad teachers that are lazy and have tenure. Those same children couldve been gifted not realizing that every child has different learning styles ie hearing touch and sight. Then when they child falls behind because they just passed them . They say the child is slow in learning.

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE Have you ever realized that pretty much every kid that is strung out on sugar is diagnosed ADHD. If a doctor says it so then it must be so and if a parent does not agree and does not follow the doctors orders for the medical care of their child then they can be arrested and their child taken from them on grounds of child endangerment.

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623 Have you ever realized that psychiatrist don't ever do medical (scientic tests) . They are just subjective of what patients tell them. Lol

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE Fluoride is not the only poison our govt advocates. The FDA and medical community is right alongside the US Govt. when it comes to poising people. Have you ever wondered why you see a TV ad for a great new drug that can cure your symptoms (but not the disease) and then the disclaimer comes on stating that it may cause heart attack or stroke, or any number of other symptoms and ailments.

Americanrev
Americanrev

@cc0623 Well almost everything you posted was the same thinks I had said you just said it in a different way. So I guess we are both saying the same pathetic things. 0_o

Americanrev
Americanrev

@cc0623 @ZackMaitland Now you are thinking outside the box CC. CC I do agree that we can not allow more people in our country. And if the government sees that this was an issue they should have had the border on lock when the 9/11 happen. I almost sure the 9/11 was a set up. But like you said the people had to stand up to the government and say wait a minute what is going in here and revel on the war that cost us trillions of dollars and instead secure our airports and borders. But the government had scared us and made us believe that the middle east was the enemy. Any ways I'm going out the topic. But we been had to secure our borders and if we don't then we do need to help out other countries so they can have the same opportunities and us but in their own country. People are scared to revel in other countries because from the police all the way to the president their is curruption. So almost the only way to win is by civil war and for that they need weapons and most dont have weapon and a leader that actually has a plan. So it is almost near impossible for people to stand up to the government.

cc0623
cc0623

@ZackMaitland Every person in this world is born unto a nation. That Nation needs to provide a safe haven, education, and and all the things in this day and age that a human being needs to survive. if the citizens of that nation see that their govt is corrupt or not providing the opportunity for its citizens then the citizens need to rise up and take control of their Nation.

Look around at all the countries that are overthrowing their corrupt govts. because they are tired of the tyranny and oppression and tell me that it is okay for the illegals to flee to another country and abandon their fellow countrymen.

Can we take them all in Zack? Should we stop at these countless MILLIONS? Should we have stopped when Reagen granted Amnesty? Can we take in 50 Million or 100 Million? When does it end Zack? We cannot help all these people in this country. If we are going to help them then we need to help them in their country.

ZackMaitland
ZackMaitland

@cc0623 Living on "my" land so you can fucking survive is much different then freeloading off of me and my personal belongings. I have a hard time understand the idea that you would rather someone die then have them live in the same country as you.

cc0623
cc0623

@ZackMaitland Really? Because that is exactly what they have done. The United States is your house Zack, it is your home and your country and the constitution was created for you to protect your home. Hundreds of thousand of men and women have died so you can live in this country they way we live. Without fear, with liberty and freedoms. And, it is okay that these people have come into your home, the home that is meant for your children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren? They will use the resources that were meant for your children and your future grand children. Do you think this country can sustain the population and all the children it has now in 40 years? Go to numbers USA and watch the gumball video and then you can determine if what these people are doing to the US Citizens is right, justified or fair.

ZackMaitland
ZackMaitland

@cc0623 I don't believe that's a fair comparison at all, seeing as illegals still pay for their own things (for the very most part) and their own TAXES. It'd be more accurate to say that you were living in my backyard without my permission, which, if you were living in my neighbor's house that might have killed you, would be fine with me.

cc0623
cc0623

@ZackMaitland So answer me this question Zack and think on this real hard. I move into your house, I drive your car, I use your savings and take your job, I give birth to a couple of kids in your house and one day your realize it is no longer your house, your car, your bank account, or your job. What do you plan on doing about it?

ZackMaitland
ZackMaitland

@cc0623 It's irrational to deport kids that are going to college and working hard to be functioning members of our society, why should we get rid of people that have potential to benefit us as a country? It's incredibly easy for the US to fix the problem instead of creating more for other people, so why not just stop the issue ourselves?

ZackMaitland
ZackMaitland

@firefox52@cc0623 The group of people who are undocumented people living in America? Mexican, Columbian, Nigerian, Peruvian, everything. I hope that answers your question, but I'm not too sure

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE@ZackMaitland@Americanrev I like that word immigrant, it is a shame people have to put such an ugly word in front of it. But, there is a difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants. If you do not believe me then look it up in the dictionary.

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623@ZackMaitland@Americanrev

For starters thats an opinion not even remotely true. Every race sticks to their own kind. Just about every city seems prosperous when they have them. Any race seems to segregate themselves in major cities. Thats why you see china towns. Second to that you mentioned that send money to build on what any american would call shacks. You can say those return to their families one day.

I'll stick with more recent times. You will not believe the amount of those children that join the military. They actually fought for their freedom not just inherit. Just about every war you've had immigrants.

cc0623
cc0623

@ZackMaitland@Americanrev Every Nationality and every race is represented in America by illegal immigrants. They come from all over the world to give birth to their children here, to seek a better life, and some to just take advantage of a situation. This country is being invaded to the tune of 10-20 MILLION illegal immigrants. But the largest percentage of the illegal population is represented by Mexican Nationals.

cc0623
cc0623

@Americanrev@ZackMaitland Have you ever heard the saying the pen is mightier than the sword? It would be very easy for the Mexican Nationals to petition the US President to help liberate them from the tyranny and injustice of the Mexican govt and cartels. Just like Libya did.....

But it is much easier for all these illegals to get on here and complain about the violence, corruption and lack humane treatment they received in Mexico and how it is their right to be a US Citizen since they live in the US now instead. No one here is going to kill them or god forbid make them leave.

cc0623
cc0623

@firefox52@EvivE What do you suppose we do about it? Who is being hurt by illegal immigration? Since the US Govt. does not protect its borders how do you propose to stop the invasion of illegals into the US?

SCREW U PREJUDICE PEOPLE
SCREW U PREJUDICE PEOPLE

@cc0623

YOU KNOW WHAT CC YOU LIAR

YOU WERE PREJUDICE STATING WHAT YOU STATED THE WAY YOU STATED IT.

FUCK ALL YOU PREJUDICE PEOPLE

FUCK THIS CONVO I AM DONE '

LET OBAMA WIN I DONT CARE NOMORE

cc0623
cc0623

@SCREW U PREJUDICE PEOPLE@cc0623@EvivE Oh please! You just stated exactly what i had to say, I merely pointed out just two of the factions instead of all of them or more than just two. I really do not care what you are offended by when you take a comment out of context to make yourself look like you had something intelligent to say. Please try and produce and original thought , so we can debate it.

SCREW U PREJUDICE PEOPLE
SCREW U PREJUDICE PEOPLE

@cc0623@EvivE NOT all asians or muslims do this.

Mexicans americans blacks etc have been doing this for centuries.

Is it right no.

Some are taken & forced by others such as kidnapped etc.

Some families also take and sell there child to someone.

Parents that raise there child to believe in finding a rich man or woman to spend there life with, is also considered to be selling there child to someone for the financial support & no worries to support there child again. In hope to better themselves. (May not have said this properly but hopefully your smart enough to understand the meaning behind it)

I take your comment very prejudice & against all those you mention.

I am white My wife is filipina Which is not asian but islander & Spainish.

& some families in philippines do sell there kids for earning money to support the family. I will not deny that. BUT NOT ALL SUCH NATIONALITIES DO THOSE THINGS. Only few & Specific People do.

STOP DISCRIMINATING

Flouride is bad & I am against it. As am I against most things the government allows to be put in our foods.

I was not going to ever reply again to these posts until I seen your discrimination!

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623 Although its never justification I would believe they do it to feed their families. Not for fixes . Second eventually alot of the same people OD and end up killing themselves or getting killed for not paying for their fixes.

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE No they have daughters. Do you realize that the Asians and Muslims sell their daughter's into marriage and sexual slavery. Do you realize the the sex slave trade is doing big business and it is not just the female sex it is young boys as well that are being sold. If an addict has to resort to prostitution for their next fix I can guarantee they will do it.

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623 It's a worldwide. No doubt about it. never denied that. But religion is very high and families have high morals. That's why you see them fighting for their families. They aren't animals. I don't believe drug addicts have welfare like they have here in America.

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE Really, you are very naive. The people that are the poorest in this country are especially susceptible to drug use. People prostitute their children, their own body for drugs. They sell drugs to make a buck and so they can get high. Please educate yourself on the victims of drug addiction and you will see what I am saying.

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623 That might explain why our dollar might be getting weaker and people demanding higher wages for non skilled jobs :-)

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE People do not need to be in debt. They choose to be in debt. I

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE Well you tell that to Obama, and all the successful black politicians and see what they have to say. Every child in America has the right to a free education even the illegal immigrants children. It does not cost to go to the public library and take out a book, or go online and learn about our world and everything it entails. A person is only as limited as they want to be.

firefox52
firefox52

@cc0623@EvivE

The only fault that America has is the failure to sedure our borders and protect its peoples. That IS the fault of our Government and thier duty.

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623

Ron Paul's idea on state's having power over that would probably make alot of cartels go bankrupt.

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623 I would also ask why would any person get involved with drug dealers. Especially the cartels. They are extremely dangerous. I would want to point out the flawless in that other statement. How can a very poor person that barely has the means to feed his own family afford to buy drugs.

EvivE
EvivE

@cc0623 Fault lies in corruption in both Governments. Education standards are not the same. In america minorities (especially black )were knowingly given horrible education some even planted drugs or beaten. They knew that either A they would be killed or jailed. Even if they got through they would never be at the same high school level. Slavery continues in other forms mainly called debt. Its needed for corporations. You need to look at the majority Hispanics actually have a very strong faith. Even Christmas is not the same. They have very strong faith due to the hope they carry. Which carries any human very far. Business created slavery. Many corporations go to other countries and exploit them. Creating a monopoly never allowing to truly grow. Venezuela was until recently they had a revolution. Bolivia as well had a revolution when nestle tried to privatize water. Squandering every company by creating what we fear most in the US called monopoly.

cc0623
cc0623

@EvivE Continued...

So now you are saying that the fault lies solely with United States? Are the US Citizens the only people with a drug addiction? Do you not think Mexican Nationals do not use drugs? Do you think South American Nations do not use drugs? Do you think it is Americas fault that Mexican nationals enslaves South Americans and rape them and kill them for attempting to cross over into America? Do you think it is America’s fault that Mexico’s children and young women are kidnapped and forced into prostitution? Do you think it is America fault that the cartels are moving into US Territory to expand their business of the slave trade and extortion?