Illegal Immigration

3712 Responses




Illegal immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for our economic crisis. But with free markets and private property, the need for immigrant labor becomes obvious. Most immigrants, regardless of the color of their skin, are open to the ideals of liberty: private property, free markets, sound money, right to life, low taxes, less war, protection of civil liberties, and a foreign policy designed for peace.

Ron Paul proposed the following action steps for dealing with illegal immigration:

  1. Abolish the welfare state. The incentive to take a job at whatever wage available must prevail.
  2. Establish a generous visitor work program. Once we solve the economic crisis by introducing sound money, demand for domestic and immigrant labor will rise.
  3. Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards. Allow states and landowners to enforce the law and provide security assistance.
  4. Abolish birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents' home countries.]
  5. End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.


3,712 responses to “Illegal Immigration”

  1. Joe Winpisinger

    Angel Martinez stated:

    “Why are you so xenophobic for people who just want to do the work that no one else wants to do? …and they do it with pride.”

    This is a myth that needs to stop being promulgated. In fact, I worked side by side with illegal immigrants for years. For the most part they were nice people but they standard of work they produced was terrible. This was mainly because they refused to follow the building codes and other quality control measures when no one was looking and would site that these were unnecessary in their defense.

    I know numerous drywall workers that would love to go back to it but cannot afford to because the illegals will work for nothing. In the end you get what you pay for and soon this will look like Mexico.

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  2. Theresa Romano

    I’m missing something. From what the news says this law gives officers the right to ask about immigration status only after someone is stopped for another infrancion; like speeding. Is that right?
    Because if that’s right then why do we even need a law? Didn’t officers already have that right?

    »crosslinked«

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    1. fred the protectionist

      “Didn’t officers already have that right?”

      Obviously not

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  3. phantomworks

    The problem with the new Arizona Illegal Immigration Law is in enforcing it,that many legal immigrants and even native-born citizens (latinos or anyone that looks latino)will be pulled over by police and harrassed.How many legal immigrants and native-born citizens will be pulled over and harrassed before the police finally bag an illegal.Even Marco Rubio a Republican running for the Senate in my state(Florida)has that same criticism of the Arizona law.Gov Brewer assured us that there will be no racial profiling with this law.I suppose that is possible if the police pull over anyone regardless of race or ethnicity including white guys like me. Wake up my fellow Libertarians! The tyrants in your own backyard can be just as much of a threat to your Rights as the tyrants in Washington! I support Ron Paul’s positions on dealing with illegal immigration as stated above.Defend our borders, deport the illegals,stop welfare for illegals etc. I don’t however want to subject some of my fellow citizens to be presumed illegal until proven otherwise. As Ron Paul said,”Pass true immigration reform!”

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    1. Ed Thatch

      I don’t see any problem. Everyone puts up with the hassle including shouldering the extra taxes to run the uninvited predators out of the pasture, then things get back to what was normal before they started attacking the flock.

      No problem. I’ll cooperate fully.

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  4. Phillip McKann

    You know, it occurs to me that we probably wouldn’t be having this debate if the country hadn’t strayed so GD’d far from what the Founding Fathers intended.

    This is not really a discussion that an American should even need to have. If the immigrants weren’t costing the taxpayer so much, if the Socialists weren’t snatching them up and plugging them into their agenda as soon as they showed up, if we didn’t have a president and congress playing race politics, then Americans wouldn’t feel like they were fighting for their way of life. But the country is clearly changing. And for those textbook Libertarians that put the value before reality, if this continues then the ideology will only exist as an impossibility in the history books. Free movement across the borders is way down the list after ending entitlements and restoring freedom. Until you have restored those core freedoms, this one is dangerous.

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    1. David

      You’ve got it Phillip. Right now we need to be dealing with the immediate and dire threats (America’s banking system) which will put a permanent end to both our freedom and any chance we might have of prosperity, and anything else is of very little consequence at this point. Once this is done, then i don’t think immigration would even be much of an issue anymore.

      If this is to be done, it will involve thinking and learning from history, both past and present, and not following any form of party politics or propaganda just as you say.

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    2. Ed Thatch

      Amen, brother. Good thing illegals can’t vote, otherwise the population here would already be greater than China with no end in sight. Which I think is what the politicians really want, that many tax payers to exploit. I think they spend their days figuring how many pennies they can skim per head without getting caught, with absolutely no regard for the quality of life or the true costs of maintaining a sustainable economy. Their wet dream is less brains, more heads.

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  5. I told you so!

    It’s clear for a long time that democrats rely on all of the minority votes to get elected or re-elected. We’re now seeing that democrat “code word” hitting the media news. My grand father, my father and my self & two brothers defended the Consititution and U.S. law….including the law pandemically being ignored by illegal aliens who violate it and Washington democrats who ignore enforcing it. 8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code – Section 1325 – http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325

    There is ONLY ONE THING more offensive than illegal aliens breaking U.S. laws – that’s any U.S. Citizen supporting them or supporting ANY effort trying to respond to the crises.

    Arizona may not have created a enforceable law, but to harm any state for doing something in reaction to the feds doing nothing is pure 100% ignorant! The U.S. has been overwelmed with pompous arrogant self centered special interest mentalities. To those who appose what Arizonians are trying to do to protect its “citizens” is nothing more than shameful embaressment.

    Now that same cranium challenged mindset believes it can make it’s voices heard by boycotting and protesting a states commerce, small businesses, it citizens, it’s citizen families, it’s employed, too blind and ignorant to realize to see that causes more victims, family financial hardships, sinks the commerce economy and wreaks havoc among its citizens. Progressive libs could care less how many enemies they make by such reverse Darwinism tactics.

    Until the liberals finally comprehend that America needs protecting. It’s up to the people’s voice to demand protection from tons of drugs, human trafficing, weapons cashes and all the millions of illegals over the years that represent major crime rates committed in the nation. Arizona D.A.’s are reporting 9% of their polulation are illegals committing 22% of all their major crimes.

    To even look at what Arizona is doing in a negative way is basically supporting the feds who have done nothing – except turning their backs on it knowing the secret code word “reform” translated means “amnesty”. The libs need to increase their voting block. That’s a shame when a political party needs illegals to become legal to offset that % of born Citizens who will never support them.

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    1. Joan

      I enjoyed reading your post. Utah is going to make the same illegal immigration law that Arizona made. I saw the gov. of Utah on Gretta VanSusterin last evening, he said the illegals will move into Utah from AZ, and he said they have 50 thousand illegals in Utah already. I saw people in Texas are petitioning Rick Perry to do the same. If many states do this, hopefully the states will finally get something done. But, the feds are going to fight the states tooth and nail. It’s like you said, the Dems feed off of the giveaway programs, that’s where they get their votes from. They are pushing for amnesty, then to give the new free health care to the illegals after they are made legal. That’s why the states are beginning to fight back. The day the Dems voted on the health care bill, they told the illegals to protest in Washington, that was all planned. Their agenda was to get a huge entitlement in place, do a stimulus that is mostly welfare and contracts for minorities only, do a mass amnesty, put in a VAT tax on everyone so they can pay for the welfare stimulus and new health care entitlement. They don’t care about poor people, it’s all about securing the Hispanic vote for the Dems. They figure it will be a one party system once they secure the Hispanic vote.

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      1. Angel Martinez

        Utah cant make the same law that Aizona made because the issue is one of
        National Border Security. You are surrounded by other US states. Why are you so xenophobic for people who just want to do the work that no one else wants to do? …and they do it with pride.

        I agree that we have a serious problem when an American city is #2 in the WORLD in kidnappings. This isnt a 3rd world country. This is America! Without even making any efforts to have a wall buildt or to have ample border security and outposts, they would rather pass an unconstitutional law in order to provok more fear. All of this is quite possibly done with the only intention of imposing a National ID card system with RFID chips in them. There goes just a little bit more freedom out the window. If they do impose this atrocious act, then perhaps they should give them to the immigrants who are here legally. That way you can track them. If an immigrant has his card then he is good to go. If not, then you know he’s here illegally. That seems to make more sense than imposing a law against birthright citizens in the land of the free.

        The fact of the matter is that this unconstitutional law was signed by and interim governor who is merely making an early bid at re-election, in cohoots with the local sherriff. Arpaio is run amuck here in the wild southwest. I dont disagree with the fact that he obeys the law. I just disagree witht he law as well as the legislators that pass it. We should have had immigration reform before health care reform. We are loaded with imbeciles here in Arizona who are running this state into the ground. They voted on a train system thats failing, speed cameras that are costing more than anticipated because no one pays the fines, a sherriff with legal bills that could save the education system here alone.

        Regardless, the lines between state and government blurr depending on party and topic. Arizona is fighting the national heathcare reform because it says the Government cant impose its will on the state level, yet it it so eager for the Government responsiblity of border security.

        Let us try to remember that WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS. That is what makes us so great in this cultural melting pot.

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        1. Ryan

          With so much fallacious reasoning and flat out lies I hardly know where to begin.

          1) Americans are willing to do the work. And they are not willing to have their pay scales undercut, and at the same time subsidize the illegal aliens welfare.

          2) Arizona’s new law is not unconstitutional. In only reinforces existing Federal Immigration laws, and creates no new immigration crimes.

          3) Arpaio is simply doing his job…. and he does it with pride.

          4) We are indeed a nation of immigrants. But we have never intended to be a nation of illegal immigrants. We have immigration laws, like all other nations. Illegals are foreigners invading our country and stealing us blind; our jobs, our social services, our rights. They are not immigrants. They are thieves. When Ron Paul gets elected that will all change for the better.
          They will be deported, just like Mexico does with its illegal immigrants.

          5) It is because we want to preserve a “cultural melting pot” that we MUST deport the illegals. If we can’t control the inflow of immigrants it will not remain a melting pot. The statistics show this to be true. Hispanics are growing disproportionately far, far, far faster than any other ethnic group.

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        2. Joan

          The governor of Utah said they found 50 thousand illegals had used other people’s social security numbers to be able to work, 50 thousand stolen identities. That is a problem. The only reason there are jobs no one will do is because welfare pays more than a lot of jobs, so unless the politicians force people on welfare to work for the welfare, they can’t be bothered. Mexico had 30 thousand dealths last year from drug cartels, the wealthy people are leaving because they are being kidnapped by the revolutionaries, Mexico is at state of emergency and it is imploding. The country needs a revolution desperately. The income from oil and tourism needs to be shared with the people. That is the real problem. A few rich white/Spanish people keep all of the oil and tourism money, so the poor people leave. It’s a third world country, and it is imploding right now. If you give 20 million people amnesty then in ten more years, you would have to do same thing again. It’s endless. Unemployment is so high in this country, the jobs are not here. Some people are returning to Mexico because of the economic crisis. Mexico has much tougher immigration laws than we do. No country is required to support and educate and give medical care to people who break the law to enter the country, and by the time 75 hospitals went bankrupt in NY and 50 hospitals went bankrupt in CA over illegals, no business person and no normal society would say, so what, and let it keep going on. We can’t have hospitals closing all over the country because of giving out free health care.

          Also the drug cartels are moving north, not staying in the border states. The drug stuff is like the old time Italian mafia. It’s no joke, lots of murders, kidnappings, and unless law enforcement can get a handle on it, we’re going to be back to the 1930s with mafia killings all over the place.

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        3. Joan

          My take on Mexican people is that they love their country and would rather live in Mexico than the U.S. if they could make a living. A revolution is necessary. If the people could fight for living wage jobs, fight to get the corrupt politicans to share the wealth of the country, it would go a long way to solving the real problems. Mexico has a lot of oil, it’s not a poor country in terms of how much oil it has and the large tourist business. It’s the corrupt government that is the problem.

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          1. fred the protectionist

            Unfortunately the Mexican nationals most likely to “revolt” are here in America working. (stealing American jobs, lowering wages for everyone etc etc)

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          2. Joan

            Fred, I agree with you. As long as they can just leave, they won’t fight in their country for their rights. It’s easier to cross the border and send money home. But Mexico has big problems now with the drug cartels talking over. I saw a show about this Mexican man who’s father owned a newspaper in Mexico, he was wealthy. He was kidnapped by some revolutionaries and held for almost a year, and he almost died. He is married to an American woman, so when the kidnappers let him go, they moved to the U.S. He said there are so many wealthy people in Mexico who want to move to the U.S. because they are afraid of being kidnapped. So, the poor and the wealthy are leaving, and the drug cartels are taking over. It shows when rich people hold most of the population in poverty, eventually they revolt.

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    2. David

      I found an interesting article on this subject, describing Mexico’s immigration laws as well. Its funny how Calderon pretends to be a wounded party in this when he and his own government are guilty of the most gross violations of even the most basic human rights, not only of immigrants but toward their own citizens as well. He, his government, and the additional power that the same banks who are trying to destroy us here have established over there, are also the single and only reason that peoples lives there are so hopeless and desperate that they are willing risk their lives to come here, and then live the most hopeless and miserable lives that any American could imagine once they get here, living in orchards and working on farms and getting paid less than nothing for doing so. As bad as things are for them here, they are worse at home and Filipe Calderon, his entire body politic, and those who put him in power, need to be shot, as they are the reason for this. Unfortunately they’ve taken all the guns away from their victims so they are not able to do so. Also unfortunately, America’s banks are fast working on establishing the same power for themselves here through control of our currency and political process and are establishing the same sort of puppet state they have imposed there, and we soon will be in the exact same situation as these poor and destitute illegals, and then neither we nor they will have any place left to try to escape to.

      I wasn’t sure what to think of the new Arizona law until i found and read the actual text on it.

      http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.htm

      This is what seems to be the operative text.

      “B. For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person. The person’s immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c). ”

      What the people who are in a panic over this are seeing is this “where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person.” What they are not seeing, is what comes before this and is included in the same sentence “For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state”.

      To my knowledge, both in the state of Arizona and in the United States of America, at least at the present time and not for much longer. Any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency must mean that this lawful contact means catching the person in the commission of some sort of crime, as again, to my knowledge, they do not have the right to stop and question a person for unless a reason to do so can be established, which they do in Mexico and every other place in the world except here. The border patrol / INS on the other hand does, and always has stopped and questioned persons based on reasonable suspicion alone without having to establish lawful contact, and it is this which i would question as to whether or not it is constitutional or a violation of human rights, not Arizona’s law, as it establishes lawful contact as a prerequisite to reasonable suspicion. The one clause i would find questionable in the bill is clause E, but since the border patrol already does this and more, it would seem to be a null issue.

      The single and only effect of this, is that the state of Arizona will now be able to turn over illegal immigrants caught in the commission of crimes to INS for deportation, so literally 100 % of the additional illegals deported to Mexico as a result of this law will be criminals, so naturally Calderon is pissed. If the illegal immigrant caught through committing a crime happens to be from Russia, England or Poland, they will be deported as well, so where does the racism come in ?

      As with anything the state of Arizona does, this law, provided its enforced as stated, does seem to come out on the right side of freedom and further ensures the security of the state. Governor Brewer also recently signed a bill eliminating the concealed carry permits which were formerly required in order to carry a concealed handgun in this state, thus ensuring that the already almost non existent crime rate when compared to other states will be completely non existent from this point on, and also further ensuring that the people of her state will have further means to fight in defense of the state constitution when the Morgan’s, Chase’s and Rothschild’s manage to replace the United States Constitution with the federal police state that will ensure their continued power and force people to continue paying them even after the stupid sheep figure out that the money they are paying interest on is money that has been stolen from them in the first place.

      Hats off to Jan Brewer, and the Arizona house and senate. They are Americans in the truest sense of the word, as is our friend Ron Paul. If we wish to solve the illegal immigration problem coming out of Mexico, then i suggest that we begin exporting revolution to that country, and shipping guns to the people that Mexico’s government denies them the right to possess, so that they can deal with that government and establish freedom and conditions for themselves that will not make them desperate enough to try to come here illegally in the first place. For us this would be 1/10th the cost of the current border security and some freedom and justice might be accomplished in the process too. So far this year, over 68 of them have died thirst, starvation and injuries trying to do so and that should give people here an indication of just how horrible their conditions are at home in order to motivate them to take that risk. These poor souls are not the culprits here, its the power in Mexico that makes it necessary for them to leave, and unfortunately that same power is about to be established here, and will be, short of mass action by the entire population, who are thus far still remain too stupid to think and simply want to trust and believe in what they are told, with the banks who are behind all of this having the money and power to do the telling.

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      1. Boredomstryks

        Exactly, David! And that’s what people will continue to ignore as long as they remain blind and follow our current leaders, refusing to read, comprehend, and THINK FOR THEMSELVES — the one freedom we still have left … for now. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with race. If I get pulled over in Arizona for speeding, I had better be prepared to show my ID. Period. It does not discriminate. I’m so glad that there really are others out there who can read and be sensible. :)

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      2. Boredomstryks

        Also, I firmly believe that it is the aim of the current administration to destroy us from within, so that we become dependent upon them. Have you heard of the Global Poverty Act, which has been pushed by our current President since he was Senator? This, to me, was a very eye-opening read: http://www.aim.org/aim-column/u.n.-to-emerge-as-global-irs/.

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        1. David

          Yes, compared to the current and dire threats to our freedom and prosperity from America’s banking system, the immigration issue is of very little consequence. There’s been many of us posting on this on the sound money blog and we’ve had a pretty good discussion of things and keep coming up with a single and only consistent solution to the problem, so if you get onto that one and scroll through some of the posts, you’ll figure out whats going on and will find it interesting as well.

          I’m an immigrant to this country myself, and have lived with the end result of the “Global Poverty Act” and this is something we desperately need to deal with here and were running out of time to do so. That’s also the single and only thing on which we should be concentrating our efforts now too, as if we don’t somehow manage to eliminate the power that would establish this, then the rest won’t matter much anymore.

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      3. Christine

        How to create civil unrest and a police state 101.

        They are doing this on purpose to devastate a country, it is easier for “them” if we are fighting each other. They are not trying to create a civil society as we all would like, but rather they are working to destroy and tear down society, divide us and conquer to gain control over the people. It’s strategic. Keeps people from uniting as a force against “them”. If we know this, then we need to do the unexpected.

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      4. fred the protectionist

        Wrong, Ron Paul would give 10 million illegals Amnesty then invite 50 million guest workers in; make the situation worse.

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  6. fred the protectionist

    I’m watching “Gangs of New York.” I guess i’m not suppose to cheer the Butcher, but I am.

    “My father gave his life, making this country what it is. Murdered by the British with all of his men on the twenty fifth of July, anno domini, 1814. Do you think I’m going to help you befoul his legacy, by giving this country over to them, what’s had no hand in the fighting for it? Why, because they come off a boat crawling with lice and begging you for soup.” Butcher

    “I don’t see no Americans. I see trespassers, Irish harps. Do a job for a nickel what a nigger does for a dime and a white man used to get a quarter for. What have they done? Name one thing they’ve contributed.” Butcher

    “Votes, you say? They vote how the archbishop tells them, and who tells the archbishop? Their king in the pointy hat what sits on his throne in Rome.” Butcher

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    1. Jim Crosby

      Okay, here’s the issue. I don’t know WTF your quotes mean or what your trying to say. I had to ask someone to explain this stuff you wrote. It’s from a film I guess. I thought you were quoting some type of antiIrish crap from 200 years ago. DON’T ASSUME WE ALL KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. If your anti-Irish—F— YOU!! If your not anti=Irish then have the decency to explain yourself and what your trying to say. I’m from an Irish family and we fought in the American Army from the Revolutionary War to Iraq. Never missed one my friend (Including me In Nam and my Son in Iraq). We always sided with Old Glory.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        The movie shows how rich bas-terds always manage to pit a group of cheap foreign laborers (who happen to be of the same ethnicity) with a group of American laborers (who happen to be of the same ethnicity). This movie it’s the Irish.

        Similarly in the Confederate South the rich bas-terds managed to get more black soldiers in their army then the North by promising them their freedom (how compassionate). This succeeded in pitting a group of cheap foreign laborers (southern blacks) against American laborers (northern blacks) on the battlefield.

        In this movie the antagonists were 2 rival gang members. The nativist Irish in one gang, and the newly off the boat Irish in another gang. But the real antagonists pulling the strings were the rich and the political arm of the rich (Tammany Hall); all in the backround of the Civil War where the rich could buy their way out of Conscription by paying a fee.

        Same thing is happening today. The newly smuggled in Mexicans are fighting the old school Mexicans who have been here longer, but the real antagonists are the rich business owners who love cheap foreign labor. Nothing changes.

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  7. David Brown

    I am amused at some of the protectionist sentiment expressed on this blog by people who perhaps profess to be libertarian and pro-free enterprise. I am writing about the type of protectionism which says you should prohibit the free movement of people. The thread in these views is that these aliens do not share American free enterprise values and will end up corrupting the country. These views are in fact postulating the existence of an anti-free enterprise gene which of course is a fundamentally racist notion. These views are not supported even if we look at the issue from a cultural perspective (I do no believe that cultural influences have much longterm effect, anyway); people from Asia and Latin America are far less use to being mollycoddled by the state than Americans. If they are currupted, it is because of life in America. Let’s face it – American born people just don’t want to compete with other people who will work harder for less. Even with unemployment approaching ten per cent American farmers can not get American born people to pick the crop.

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    1. Henry

      To accept illegal immigration is to accept all the negative aspects of it without question or scrutiny and if you state opposition based on facts you’re racist. That’s
      not fair in my mind.

      So you’re saying that the cultural difference does NOT affect us? hahahaha That’s plain ignorant. In order for these illegals to accept these jobs they live in homes with 2-3 families and even a family living in the garage. Cars are parked all over on the lawn and even in the backyard. This is NOT American culture but is in fact another aspect that has been overlooked due to the fact that it conflicts with open border policy. It’s the same as the kidnapping going on Phx. It’s not American culture to kidnap and sever limbs and “raising Arizona” didn’t
      cause these kidnappings a lack of enforcement did. So you say America is coddled? Maybe so but we’re the best nation in the world. You can’t hold that against us for wanting to preserve what’s great in this country. It’s just a natural reaction and if you were us you’d think the same way. In any case, do you not see anything wrong with how much deception is created in order to HIDE the negative aspects of it?

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    2. fred the protectionist

      David Brown believes in core Libertarian ideology. One aspect of core Libertarian ideology is open-borders, so if 100 million Chinese want to immigrate to America next year, there’s nothing to stop them.

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    3. Ryan

      Simple logic, “Open borders” is the same thing as “no government”. — Anarchy!

      Anarchists pretending to be libertarians are really annoying to real libertarians.
      … And Commie-Protectionists are equally annoying.

      Defend our sovereignty!
      Defend our rights!
      Defend our borders!
      Lead by example, and othe nations will follow.
      … If we choose to be a welfare-nanny state the world will suck our tit dry, and still remain impoverished themselves.
      … On the other hand, if we choose to follow our founding fathers intents, as “individualists”, then the people of the world will learn to carry their own weight, and stop expecting America to solve all their woes.

      If this world is ever to go forward, all nations must elevate themselves.
      America is only one nation, a leader nation perhaps, but let us lead like a true leader. We cannot carry the load of the world. They must carry their own weight.
      Deport every illegal alien and lead by example. They will either follow our individualist example or they won’t; but we won’t be carrying their load in addition to our own weight – in socialist fashion. It’s their choice to go forward or not. And the same applies to us. Get busy living or get busy dying.

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      1. Ryan

        …. It is not heartless, folks. It is leadership!
        And that is exactly what Ron Paul is suggesting and supporting across the board. And so do I!

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      2. fred the protectionist

        Libertarian say: “Deport every illegal alien and lead by example.”

        What use is it to deport 10 million illegals then invite in 50 million guest workers? That’s what the neocon/Libertarians want. What exactly will that accomplish other then make the situation worse?

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        1. Ryan

          Crazy Internet Troll Says: “What use is it to deport 10 million illegals then invite in 50 million guest workers?”

          None. It will never happen under Ron Paul’s leadership.

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          1. Joan

            Ryan, what would we do without Fast Freddie? He’s trolling me in another board. Wouldn’t be as much fun without one equal opportunity troller.

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          2. fred the protectionist

            Ronulan liar says: “It will never happen under Ron Paul’s leadership.”

            http://profiles.numbersusa.com/improfile.php3?DistSend=TX&VIPID=787

            Ron Paul loves cheap foreign labor (guest workers), Ron Paul:

            Cosponsoring legislation to increase H-2B workers who are present in the U.S. at any one time in 2005-2006

            Nearly doubled H-1B foreign
            high-tech workers in 1998

            Voted in 1998 to allow firms to lay off Americans
            to make room for foreign workers

            Voted against employment verification in 2008

            Voted against an amendment to reduce funding for the visa waiver program.

            Voted against amendment to fund program to deny driver’s licenses to illegal aliens in 2005

            Voted against bill to bar drivers’ licenses for illegal aliens in 2005

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          3. Ryan

            LOL
            Very true, Joan. :)

            Fred is fun… by crazy internet trolls standards. :^P

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          4. Ryan

            Fred,
            It says, Ron Paul “Voted to protect American workers by voting against foreign worker importation program in 2005 ”
            It also says, Ron Paul “Voted in favor of amendment to prohibit immigration increases in Free Trade Agreements in 2005 ”
            It also says, Ron Paul “Voted to protect American workers by voting against worker-importation program in 2003″

            And way back in 1998 he did mess up, probably from lack of sleep, working too hard to counter the liberal-neocons insanity, and voted to nearly double H-1B foreign high-tech workers and allowed firms to lay off Americans to make room for foreign workers. There must have been a reason at the time, in his mind, although I’d say it was wrong all along.

            Anyway, so what! He made a mistake 12 years ago. But it says nothing even remotely close to him wanting to import 50,000,000 (50 million) guest workers, as you incorrectly suggested.

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          5. Ryan

            “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”?

            … Moderating what?
            … no cuss words, at all. zero. zip….. nothing!

            What is the world coming to? Ridiculous.

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          6. fred the protectionist

            Ron Paul, and other neocon Republicans, would kick out 10 million illegals, then invite in 50 million cheap foreign labor “guest workers”. What would that accomplish other then make the situation worse?

            Similarly:

            Ron Paul would abolish NAFTA, then lower US Tariffs to zero while Mexico-Canada would raise thei tariffs against the US. What would that accomplish other then make the situation worse?

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    4. Phil McKann

      No, these immigrants do not fuel the American ideal. They’ve never heard of it, nothing like it exists where they come from, and this country does not encourage them to learn it once they get here.

      This is not the 1800s, where immigrants show up with the opportunity and self-determination to better their lives. Immigrants that arrive now immediately sign up for every government handout available and start gaming the system. Sure, most work very hard. They also consume more than their fair share of our nation’s generous entitlements.

      Anyone is welcome to show up and compete, fairly, as far as I’m concerned. But working cheap and allowing the taxpayer to make up the difference games the system and patently unfair.

      The jobs the immigrants are doing, construction and the like, were being done 15 years ago by kids I graduated with from High School. Now those jobs are all done by illegals because they work for less. They can afford to work for less partly because of the leaner lifestyle they live, but mostly because their wife and five kids absorb every entitlement the state offers.

      To argue that immigrants are simply cheap labor is dishonest. They are cheap in no small part because of the generous welfare system here; a welfare system that my contemporaries will not abuse as the immigrants do. The employers win because the taxpayer is subsidizing their labor costs.

      Arizona can’t afford them, and soon neither will the rest of the southern states. And if you look at the “ten most wanted” for any of these states, you’ll find that most or all are Mexicans.

      So give it a breather, man, nobody cares. The country needs a period of recession to get the millions that have arrived a chance to get with the program.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        All immigrants are cheap and undercut American labor, whether they come over here illegally to pick fruit or as programmers under H1B visas. American natives have a lower standard of living while the rich get richer. Free Trade has the same effect, cheap foreign labor.

        All of this promotes socialism cause Americans would rather live with socialism then become slaves to the rich.

        Now y’all have 2 choices:

        #1) Stop exploitation of cheap foreign labor and get rid of socialism.

        #2) Exploit cheap foreign labor and embrace socialism.

        There are no other alternatives, neocons and Libertarians.

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  8. Henry

    I find it laughable that a user commented about how “free trade” is related to immigration or how another writer frowned upon socialism yet thinks
    illegal immigration is good.

    First off, I view Dr. Paul as a constitutionalist first and foremost and that means
    an infringment upon our civil liberties comes first before any talks of how this is related to free trade. I can’t believe I even responded to that but oh well.

    As far as the anti socialist who likes immigration, he has no clue about the dynamics of our government and the stance it has taken for years. It’s pretty clear that if they got amnesty those same amnesty people wouldn’t just pick up and disappear. They’d do exactly what black civil rights leaders do and that’s become lobbyists for special privileges. We don’t need a society where
    visions are forced upon us to justify special privileges. This is what makes people dependent upon government and causes friction and division upon the people.

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  9. David Brown

    It is contradictory to believe in free trade – the free movement of goods across a border – but to be opposed to the free movement of people. A true libertarian is against restrictions on trade and against restrictions on the movement of people. In a true market economy jobs will be filled by the person who is prepared to sell his labour for the lowest price. Mexicans are in the U.S. because generally speaking they are prepared to sell their labour (and there are many Americans prepared to buy that labour) for a lower price than people born in the U.S. This is the free market system at work. In a system where goods can move freely but people can’t countries like Mexico and China become captives of cheap labour. The longterm consequence is to undermine industry in the U.S. which can not compete with the low cost captive labour of other countries. Allow the free movement of people and this problem disappears as wages become standardized around the world. In other words there would be no point in Walmart getting its products manufactured in Mexico or China when they could be manufactured just as cheaply (and without the transportation costs) in the U.S.

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Free Trader say: “Allow the free movement of people and this problem disappears as wages become standardized around the world.”

      Equalize wages huh. Oh so American citizens should suffer the consequences of a corrupt or socialist government overseas. I see.
      .
      .
      .
      .

      Libertarians promote corrupt and socialists governments in America. When the open-border/free trade Libertarian/Neocons cost tens of millions of Americans good paying jobs those tens of millions of Americans vote Democrat.

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      1. Seit 1685

        …But Protectionism surely isn’t empowering the Dems, is it? Your ignorance is amazing.

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        1. fred the protectionist

          The Democrats play the populist game, but they are no protectionists. They’ll throw up a tariff here and there, for a few more votes in a strategic manner.

          The Tariff does empower the Democrats, cause voters frankly don’t like you free-traitors.

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    2. Phillip McKann

      It is not necessarily accurate to say that open borders are consistent with Libertarianism. Yeah, I know that lb.org says it is so, but an immigrant’s value to this country as cheap labor exists because the system is gamed, and the American taxpayer is currently forced to underwrite the cost of his replacement.

      The Libertarian ideal of free enterprise doesn’t hold when the system isn’t fair, man. Libertarians always fall down on that one; ignoring the dirty stunts that business pulls to game the system in their favor. They care not one wit if their host country is completely consumed, as long as they make money on the way down.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        “It is not necessarily accurate to say that open borders are consistent with Libertarianism. Yeah, I know that lb.org says it is so, but an immigrant’s value to this country as cheap labor exists because the system is gamed, and the American taxpayer is currently forced to underwrite the cost of his replacement.”

        Common misconception by those who cling to neocon-Libertarianism. Even if illegals were guest worker (slaves) who didn’t get any welfare, they’d still be undercutting American labor.

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        1. Jake Witmer

          The lack of social tolerance and basic comprehension of the ideas of liberty on this board is apalling.

          If Ludwig von Mises and Freidrich Hayek hadn’t been able to escape Hitler by coming to the USA, there would have been no Ron Paul, and no freedom movement around him.

          For all the people who think “keeping the immigrants out” is an answer, here are a few points:
          1) You couldn’t do it even if you wanted to. The US minimum wage demands workers who need not follow it. By stupidly allowing or supporting a minimum wage for so many years, Americans have priced themselves out of entry-level jobs. Since employers don’t trust an American citizen who says “hire me under the table, I’ll work for whatever you want” (since they hold all the cards and could sue the employer out of existence), those employers have an incentive to hire people whom they could “report to immigration”. This means that there is a huge market for illegal immigrants, and when markets are pitted against government, black markets are created, and win out, over time (unless the government becomes a totalitarian regime, as our government is well on its way to doing).
          2) Which brings me to: If you’re on the side of trying to keep out illegal immigrants, you are (intentionally or not) on the side of creating a totalitarian police state. If you favor cops being able to arrest someone, put cuffs on them, and ship them across a border, with or without their family, then you are a tyrant, supporting tyranny. If you favor random ID checks, or traffic stops, you are also a tyrant supporting tyranny. If you favor mandatory ID cards, you are a tyrant, supporting tyranny. If you favor a border wall, you are a tyrant, supporting tyranny. There is no way to get around this. Now, I know you’re a lot of stupid, well-meaning people who think that they can “engineer society” for liberty by controlling populations. (Gee, where have I heard that kind of uninformed hubris before?)
          3) You’re laboring under the false idea that immigrants don’t want more individual liberty. They want whatever they can get. If YOU, the US citizen FAIL IN YOUR DUTY to secure liberty for them, and a free market for them to compete in, then they will take a welfare payment, and you will lose.
          4) Opposition to immigrants on welfare is your only legitimate argument, but that is NOT an argument against immigration, it’s an argument against welfare bribes. I agree. We need to smash the welfare state. …We can’t do that if the friends of freedom are fighting against one another.
          5) If I was sheltering an illegal immigrant and his family at my home, and you tried to report them to “ICE” and I found out about it, I’d treat you the same way the Cartagena cartel treats police informants, and you would totally deserve it.

          On any given issue, the people who want more police involvement, more security theater, and fewer individual liberties for the poor (of any background), are wrong. It’s a simple rule of thumb that works well. If someone has a spouse that wants to come here, and they can’t because of you, or the policies you support, …you’re a tyrant.

          I find it incredibly sad that Ron Paul supporters who have seen through the tyranny of the drug war and gun control (which has all the same flawed arguments that the anti-immigration argument has), are too conformist and following to see through the exact same arguments when applied to the immigration issue.
          1) “drug users/gun owners hurt the moral fiber of America, you can’t legalize drugs because then we’d have more drug use/violence, and druggies/violent gangbangers don’t vote for liberty” vs “illegal immigrants hurt the moral fiber of America, you can’t legalize immigration because then we’d have more immigration, and immigrants don’t support a culture of liberty” = totally not supported by the evidence, tangential to true arguments. (Ad hominem arguments, assertions without fact.)
          2) “drug addicts/ gun toting gangbangers apply for welfare more than US citizens” “immigrants apply for welfare more than US citizens” = not true, and even if true, irrelevant. We want to eliminate welfare. That’s the goal. We don’t want to tyrannize people on the way to eliminating welfare, because if we do, we’ll make ourselves an easy political target, and fail. Only consistent individual liberty prevails.

          3) I could go on, but the low intellectual level on this bigoted board is boring me. Suffice to say that Marc Stevens is right. If you people at the lower echelons of the Ron Paul support movement want to make yourselves useful I suggest you read the novel “Unintended Consequences” by John Ross, and draw your own conclusions about border security theater.

          …How ugly! We’ve become a nation like Nazi Germany, because of brainless thug voters and their idiotic politics. So sad to see someone who’s 98% on the side of liberty support such inane contradictions (even if he’s smart enough that he doesn’t stand by their logical conclusions, and doesn’t vote for abortions like the border fence, and random ID checkpoints).

          To hell with the white separatists in the Ron Paul movement! They are the death of the Ron Paul movement.

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  10. Liberty
    1. fred the protectionist

      Told you so, Libertarians are open-border (/free-traders).

      Don’t let their duplicity, compartmentalization and propaganda fool you.

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  11. Jake Witmer

    Ron Paul is wrong about immigration, and right about almost everything else. His view on immigration is un-libertarian, otherwise, he’s a religious libertarian (his religiousity interferes with a rational view on abortion as well).

    I agree with Paul that the most important issue is Ending the Fed.
    I agree with his stance on the immoral and unconstitutional wars.
    I agree with his stance on ending the punishment of people for owning property and other victimless crimes.
    I agree with his authorship/sponsorship of the Full Informed Jury Amendment.
    I acknowledge that he is the only politician to vote consistently.
    I acknowledge that he is the only person in congress with personal moral integrity, who recognizes the destructiveness of government and taxation.
    I greatly admire Paul for bringing up issues that other people wouldn’t dare touch, out of fear and cowardice.

    Unfortunately, large-but-losing demographics have pressured him to abandon the ideas of individual freedom on immigration. Under no interpretation of libertarianism are borders heavily policed, and people “deported”. That is statist barbarism.

    Paul’s ideas on abortion are consistent with his interpretation of libertarianism, and with his religious views and past as an ob-gyne. I give him a pass on that one, because he also seems to understand the difference between one minute after conception, and one month. Moreover, he is personally morally repulsed by abortion, and the solution is likely technologica anyway. Abortion is a mess, and a time-wasting unresolvable conflict.

    On all other issues other than immigration, Paul addresses the root cause of the problem, and the symptom is ignored. If you don’t like drug dealers and their outlaw battles for drug territory, then legalize drugs and include those people in the court system –and push them out of the black market. If you don’t like illegal immigrants behaving lawlessly and creating victims and victimizers, the answer is the same: eliminate the illegal status, and allow them access to the court system.

    But don’t have an easily exploitable welfare state for them (and the millions of US-born welfare cases) to take advantage of.

    In every other area that “we have to follow the law” argument is seen through as shallow, and intellectually dishonest.

    “Owning a gun is my right -to hell with the law.”
    “Owning a drug is my right -to hell with the law”
    “Owning my own money is my right -to hell with the law.”
    “Owning my own property and business is my right -to hell with the law.”
    “Owning a my own body and my own stem cells is my right -to hell with the law.”

    But when it comes to immigration:
    “The law is the law!” (circular bromide)

    When it comes to “illegal” immigration, Paul is wrong, Marc Stevens is right.

    On everything else, Paul is right. So yeah, I’d vote for Paul in a heartbeat. He has no ability to interfere with abortions, even if he were elected (although he could create a grotesque temporary black market in abortions if he got the government involved).

    I guess that if Paul were elected, I’d just have to criticize any tyrannization of illegals under his administration, while I championed him on every other issue.

    Jake

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    1. gander

      the reason that you are wrong jake is that there hasn’t been a libertarian president since the founder’s time. you want to take a guess why? massive immigration that came faster than the nation’s ability to integrate them. if you are a people who believes in democracy and liberty and you let in a bunch of immigrants who don’t believe in those things and they get over 50 percent of the population, they vote liberty out of office and start to change the country to one that they prefer.

      is it any wonder that a majority of the new americans vote democrat, are pro welfare, anti gun, are basically against everything in the constitution? people tend to naively believe that assimilation is a one way street. The exchange of cultural values goes both ways. that is why liberty lovers are so few today.

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      1. Jake Witmer

        The reason you’re wrong “gander”, is that the pragmatic contextual results of a philosophical stance do not change the validity of the stance.

        It doesn’t matter what individual illegals do once they get here, to the debate about whether they should be allowed in, unless you can show that they are all anti-freedom (which you can’t, because that’s not correct). That’s the same fallacious argument as saying you’re against legalizing drugs because your brother was robbed by a junkie. It’s conflating the actions with a few based on horrible circumstances with the actions of all, after those horrible circumstances have been corrected.

        Every problem with immigration is really a problem with the fact that immigration is restricted by the state. This is not only the view of “the libertarians”, it is the view of the Austrian School of Economics, of von Mises and Hayek.

        Don’t want immigrants to be “anti-libertarian”? Then don’t support stripping them from their families and shoving them across an imaginary line, dolt! And don’t equate the useful term “libertarian” with doing such!

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  12. D Williams

    This is a major problem. We have to secure our borders. But we will never get the majority of current offenders out. If they have to be naturalized they should have to pay for the privilage. 5000 -10000 each. Also it is highly likely that the Mexican resturant in your town is funded by gangs.

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  13. Michael

    Well something needs to about our borders, mainly Mexico without a doubt. If you don’t agree, your probably Mexican. I guess it’s never too late, but this should have been done 150 years ago. I don’t think the US should be the world police or the world mission. I also believe we need to bring our work back home. These problems have gotten so out of hand because we’ve had a government that allowed it for so long-the damage is done. We need to make wiser decisions when it comes to electing officials to run our country people. It’s never too late, Nov. 2 make a u-turn, lets take our country back and show them who’s country this is!

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    1. Fred the Protectionist

      What purpose does it serve to kick out 10-20 million illegals then invite them back in as “Guest Workers”? Probably 50 million “Guest Workers”, double that.

      The Neocon/Libertarians want that. Amnesty, or nothing at all, would be better then the Neocon/Libertarian solution. In fact if I remember correctly it is one of the primary reasons Republicans (Neocon/Libertarian Party) lost the last election, mmmhmm.

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      1. Ryan

        Fred, you are easy to predict. Take any issue and say that the Libertarians want exactly the opposite of what they really want.

        ***”What purpose does it serve to kick out 10-20 million illegals then invite them back in as “Guest Workers”?”***

        None, and it would never happen; Ron Paul would never allow 10-20 million guest workers back in.
        If any guest workers were ever allowed back in, for harvest season perhaps, for one, they would only be allowed in after any American looking for work got first chance to get the job; they would only be allowed to fill any remaining job openings on temporary work visas. And secondly, they’d be paying taxes for a change. And third, they would be legally present and therefore documented.

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          You just contradicted yourself. First you say you’re against Guest Workers, then you turn around and say we need Guest Workers.

          *moves forefinger around ear in clockwise motion*

          Maybe you should go Liberal and make up words or completely redefine them so they sound more palatable. Instead of “Guest Workers” call them “Needed Workers”, eh? Maybe you should hire me at your Libertarian propaganda department, i’m tired of doing your job for you.

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          1. Ryan

            Trying reading with your eyes next time.
            I said “if” any guest workers were “ever” allowed back in….

            I never suggested they should. Personally, I do not suggest it. I think we have plenty of people right here willing to work.

            You suggested there would be no purpose in deporting them.
            My point was that their certainly would be “even if” they were allowed in as guest workers; that they’d be legal, they’d be paying taxes, and they would be secondary to any American seeking employment.

            Maybe you should go back to kindergarden and further your education.

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          2. Fred the Protectionist

            No they wouldn’t be “paying taxes”, the cheap foreign labor lovers would just find 10 million more slaves to work at their sweat shops.

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        2. longshotlouie

          You’ll have to be patient with Fled. English is not his first language and is only aware of the MSM/Wiki meanings of words.

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  14. DJ

    I have the immigration solution. Lets pull all our troops from other countries into the US and invade Mexico. Then when there is no longer a Mexico, employ all the ex-mexicans to watch the southern border or we threaten to return their leaders to office.

    (Calm DOWN i’m only joking).

    My point is: Americans fought to have what we have now, a free society. It was passed on to us by all the Americans who died fighting for it. If people of other countries are oppressed they should rise up together and fight for their own freedom for their own children. Why is it America’s responsibility to care for and house people of other nations? If they don’t like their own government they should work to change it. It is up to the people to decide how much power they are going to allow their government.

    We are being invaded by illegal immigrants. This invasion is a threat to our way of life. I’m tired of hearing, “illegal immigrants do the jobs that no one else will do” Because that person must have never been poor. I’ve never had much money my entire life and there isn’t a job that I wouldn’t do to keep from having to be on welfare. I was born here, the daughter of a native American and decendent of Irish immigrants. I have done whatever job I could to feed and care for my children. Welfare is not a free ride like some people believe it is. It is tantamount to slavery. In order to be “cared for” you give up your freedom. I would choose freedom. I would choose work.

    Do you know what its like to barely be able to pay your bills, even though you work (hard demanding work) 12 – 15 hours a day, then to be laid off without cause in November? They even hired the illegals 2 weeks before we got laid off, so we could train them. Can you imagine that day in November going home to your family? Defeated in utter dispair. Facing your small children that are depending on you? What consolation do you think it was to me that the company got caught, and fined? That just meant more illegal labor competing for my job again.

    Well, my children are grown up now. Even though I worked hard, I never could give them things that a lot of people took for granted. We never could afford a telephone, sometimes we did well just to have electricity. Now, my children are having trouble finding jobs. And like me, they’d do any job but even the smallest jobs are taken.

    So to hear someone say that illegal immigrants fullfill a role is insulting to me. You might as well call me lazy. When in reality they create an unfair market that is illegally obtained. (ie the employers of illegal immigrants and illegal immigrants themselves are breaking the rules that everyone else has to follow in order to obtain employment or employees.)
    You might as well say “We need criminals because otherwise what would all the jailors do.”

    It is simple. Every illegal immigrant that has a job in the US is stealing a job from an American citizen. Almost every illegal immigrant is aware that they are breaking the laws of our country but it makes no difference to them. This makes them theives at best and they should be treated as the criminals that they are.

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  15. William

    I generally agree with Dr. Paul’s beliefs accept this one. Implementing his plan for border security is contradictory to liberty and free markets. In order for free markets to work there must be free labor. This a another gov’t created problem where the gov’t presents itself as the solution by increasing gov’t (ie, border patrols, walls, etc). We’ll never solve the problem of illegal immigration until we discuss the conditions that allow the illegal labor to exist in the first place.
    Fistly, if there are 12 million illegal aliens in America then that is a testament to our economic system. Markets, unlike gov’t, can not create anything artificial or unnecessary, if it exist in the market its because there is a deman for it and its fulfilling a NECESSARY purpose. The market has produced 12 million illegal immigrants because they fill a necessary purpose that otherwise would not take place.
    Illegal immigration is an economic problem that is governed by the simple rules of economics of supply and demand and excarbated by labor regulation. It has nothing to do with terrorism or people trying to get a free handout, etc.
    The US has a high demand for cheap illegal labor due to the costs the gov’t has created from labor regulation. Illegal labor saves US employers collosal amounts of money –which in turns allows the business to remain competitive, produce cheaper goods/services, increased profits, etc.
    Hiring legal labor is extremely expensive, employers must pay minimum wage, half of the the employess soc. sec. & medicare taxes, unemployment taxes, etc. The gov’t has essentially artificially raised the value of cheap labor so much via labor laws that a black market of illegal labor has blossomed. Socialist, public entitlement, programs plus the birth citizenship law have only compounded the problem, such as welfare, food stamps, public education, public clinics, etc.
    Ironically, the only solutions the gov’t has come up with is to make it more difficult for persons to cross the border –but recent studies have shown this only adds to the problem. More illegal immigrants have decided not to return to the home nation when they normally would have because the fear they’ll be unable to make the journey back.

    I guess I could go on and on, but I hope you get the point. Illegal immigrants aren’t evil villians who come here to hurt the middle class, they come here because 1) they need a job and 2) someone is willing to hire them –its as simple as that. Any labor laws anti-thetical to individual freedom aught to be repealed. If the US had free labor with a free market, US employers wouldn’t have to hire illegals just to remain in business. Socialist entitlement programs should be repealed or denied to non-citizens (I favor repeal since these programs violate individual freedom and free markets).

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    1. Lindsey

      William: ” Liberty and justice for all” applies to US citizens. If we have to pay more for goods produced here because of higher labor costs then so be it. We are a nation and as such we have the right to accept who we want and reject who we don’t want because our government will only work with a “moral populace’. (Thomas Jefferson)

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        Williams is a true blue Libertarian.

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        1. Fred the Protectionist

          Who thumbs downed me?! Are you ashamed of who you are?

          I actually have more respect for Williams than you fair weather Libertarians, or conspiracy theorist Libertarians. At least Williams knows the baseline theories behind Libertarianism, the rest of you are pretty clueless.

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          1. gander

            the people who support ron paul are not Libertarians, they are libertarians. There is a difference that you appear to have trouble understanding.

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          2. Fred the Protectionist

            When it comes to economics Ron Paul is a capital letter Libertarian.

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    2. longshotlouie

      I guess we can just ignore the illegal part, and the huge criminal class part, and the drain on the middle class part, and the drain on services part, and the ……………….

      The same logic applies here that Paul applies to all other situations. This tells me that you simply have not looked close enough at this situation, or are yet unable to distinguish between symptom and causation.

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    3. Luis M

      Be nationalistic will drive you into fascism

      Warning: forgive me if I don’t write a good English is not my mother tongue,

      Im Mexican Im a follower of the Austrian Economics, von Mises and of course Ron Paul, but I want to tell you my story, my mother lives in Las Vegas Nevada as an illegal alien, like most of the people she goes in the pursuit of the american dream, I apply for a visa as turist, and it was a very a hard thing I was refuse two times for people like me (low incomes) it is just Imposible to get a visa, and it doesn’t matter how much time you wait for, but we fight and we work in different ways to deceive the embassy of the US, finally I get it but my brother don’t.

      I had visited the US 4 times since that, but I never stay and I dont want to, I just want to visit my mom, even my Mom pretends to stay for 2 more years, not all the families have the same luck, many son’s and daughter’s wants to see their parents but they can’t, so the illegal way is the only way, and love can more than any border and human law.
      I know that it sounds too pretentious, but I cant assure you that be illegal alien in the US is one of the worse things that you can imagine, you lost your freedom, you lost your dignity, you lost many of the human rights and the only reason because racist people, because the people still believe that more people in labour will reduce the wealth, because believe that immigrants mainly latinos are bad people like drug deallers, thieves, drunks, did the World War II didnt teache you something, how can latinos be good persons if they are not free, depravation is the only that you can expect for a community like that.

      Be illegal alien as a Hero and at the same time as a villain

      My mom works taking care of a kid, they parents doesn’t have the time and the desire to raise him, this kid only receives loves from my mom, it is sad that this things happends, but for this American kid my mom represents more even than their parents and it is obviously that exist a win-win relation, all people wins with this situation, and American kid is getting the necessary attention and 2 parents are feel good for that, my mom earn more than in mexico and I could get an education as a result for that, my mom made an excellent work the father of the kid always says “She is the best” and He is very proud of his son and of the education (Values) and the ability to spoke 2 lenguages that he has.

      I have americans friends, and I feel bad for the actual situation many of them loss their jobs and their businessess, but you must realize soon or later that freedom is the only way, to put barriers and walls never work, did you realize that today exist more freedom in China (economically), why choose the nationalistic way many of the people who signs the US constitution holds slaves (not Thomas Jefferson), Im not saying that all is wrong but there is not such golden age, if you really think as a Libertarian soon or later as Mises says realize that the State is the negation of liberty.

      I know that Im not American but I can see why you succeed, and that is freedom, nothing else, if you stay away from this you will lose your essence, America is going bankrupt by the socialist and the people who wants to live Isolate, and I feel that even Ron Paul is going in the wrong way, He says that want to cut government expenses but vote for the wall on border, he says that wants freedom but not for labour, remember that patriotism in excess will drive into a community that do not think (fascism), true libertarians like Mises and Rothbard vote for individual freedom no State, no barriers, no immigration laws, no roads to serfdom.

      I dont want a WWIII, I dont want a new global war, there is no necesity to be nationalistic, today we need reason, logic, love, freedom, not barriers between human beings, Im afraid that america is in the losing side, please dont let this happend.

      Ron Paul is a genius, and a great person, but he has weaknesses and immigration is one of them, Im sorry but there is much work to do.

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      1. DJ

        I understand you want to see your mom. I feel bad for your situation. Which does not change the fact that you, your mother and her employers are all criminals. The solution to your problem is for your mother to be deported to Mexico where you and your family can have unlimited access to see her whenever you like. Then the child could be cared for by one of the many thousands of unemployed Americans (or legal immigrants) that would like to have a job right now. Your Mother’s employers should have to pay heavy fines. Also, if they wanted to continue to employ your mother as a nanny, they could always move to Mexico with her.

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        1. Luis M

          well i want to be more clear on this, I’m not a criminal DJ, I do not live in the US, I never broke a US law, my point was that if the US will pass an immigration reform allowing people to get in and out of the country it will be less immigration, many people take their families and cross the border because they are afraid to lose them, or to avoid the pain that cause a separation, not all people get a VISA, i have one and I never stay beyond the permited time in the US. Ludwig von Mises wrote in his youth about this, the jews in Lemberg, Bohemia and Vienna suffer the same situation and he demonstrate that immigration increase considerably the economic activity, I know that is not my country I’m just a libertarian like von Mises, and believe me my mom return this year because we appreciat freedom more than money.
          Ryan you are right and I dont want to avoid that excesive immigration is a 50-50 problem, the main reason for emmigration in Mexico is because our government is not doing the things right, if we improve our situation we will not have the necesity to emmigrate, but if you say that illegal alliens are the responsables for the bankrupt of the welfare, well I suggest if you support Ron Paul is because you are against the state, against the welfare and their social security service, remember that this is the direct result of keneysian theories, libertarians like Mises, Milton Friedman, Rothbard show us that immigration is bad when exist a welfare, and at least in my case my mom do not use anything not healthcare no schools, nothing from your government actually she pays taxes because she hopes that some day is going to be a reform, not all people are criminals, and if you want keneysian full employment you will have another great depression. I strongly recommend “The Theory of Money and Credit” to understand the crisis and the austrian business cycle.

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          1. Ryan

            It’s true that I am against the welfare state. And both the Liberals here that created the welfare state and the illegal aliens that came here to live off of it are responsible for the resulting economic devastation, it’s 50 – 50 as you say.
            I’m not trying to say America as a whole is totally innocent in this mess.
            But still the problems that made the illegals poor, uneducated, unskilled, and unemployed in their own nation are being brought to us unjustly and creating the same mess here. Regardless what America’s Liberals think, we do have immigration laws on the books, and the illegals are violating them. It’s also true that America’s politicians have not been enforcing those same laws. But that doesn’t justify the illegals coming illegally. They all contribute to the problem.

            If the illegals would do their part and address the route problem in their own country, vote the bums out there while we vote the bums out here, both Mexico and America can finally go forward.
            My guess is that only if we vote the bums out here first will the illegals be motivated to address and solve the route issues there. Why? Because it’s so much easier to live on our backs than doing the hard work of fixing their own problems. As long as we tolerate it they will keep coming.
            Therefore I say we need to be very tough on the illegals. Huge fines increasing with every additional illegal entry, visits to our jails, and confiscation of belongings, will be the only motivator that they will respond to. It’s not intended to be mean, though they will probably see it that way, but rather to help both nations go forward.

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      2. Ryan

        Luis M, why don’t you apply your political determination towards your own government? Mexican laws and governance should be your focus, not American laws and governance.
        The only reason you gave your opinion was for your own personal situation. As is the case with all other illegals in our country. Frankly, it shows a level of selfishness that borders on pro-Hispanic racism; that Mexicans are somehow superior to all other people that want to immigrate here. And that our laws somehow are unfair to “you”. Well neighbor, our immigration laws are not designed to suit neighboring nations or individuals with economic difficulties. Our immigration laws are intended equally to all people of every nationality, economic fortune or misfortune, race, religion, etc.. In short they are design to be fair to all. Illegals think only of themselves and not an iota about their victims; the American taxpayers, the low income workers who’s jobs have been stolen and who’s pay scale has been undercut. As well as devistating our health care system across the nation… For example, over 100 hositals in California alone have closed their doors forever due to bankrupcy caused exclusively by illegal aliens.
        My advice is practice politics in our own nation and quit expecting America to share it’s very hard earned wealth with people that are either too lazy to fix their own national problem, all self-inflicted by the way, or that are to criminally minded to ever concider the damages they cause others all for their own personal gain.
        I do not hate you or your nation, but I wouldn’t hesitate to deport your mom, or any other illegal immigrant, at their own expense… After imposing a significant fine for breaking our laws.

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      3. gander

        the reason america is a better place to live than mexico is because mexican culture is inferior to american. history proves the point. americans would never have allowed a true dictator like santa ana to come to power but the mexicans were ok with it. mexicans live with corruption and political graft and consider it normal. when you eventually form a majority in this country then america will begin to suffer the same problems.

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      4. Boredomstryks

        Luis M., I hate to sound cold, but I have to agree with the sentiment of others. No visa? No guest worker permit? No legal way of entering this country? I’m sorry. That’s the breaks. How about if I broke your laws? What would happen to me? Let me post an outline of your immigration law and see if it’s correct:
        Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:

        •in the country legally;

        •have the means to sustain themselves economically;

        •not destined to be burdens on society;

        •of economic and social benefit to society;

        •of good character and have no criminal records; and

        •contributors to the general well-being of the nation.

        The law also ensures that:

        •immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;

        •foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;

        •foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics;

        •foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;

        •foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;

        •those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

        Does that about sum it up? Now, how about if we come there and violate your laws? It’s respect. It’s the law. If your mother ever hopes to be respected, she needs to stop being a criminal. Quite frankly, I’d be even harder than Dr. Paul. If you are caught in this country illegally, you don’t just get deported and sent back to your country to wait at the end of the line of the rest waiting to be permitted in. You don’t get a second chance. If you can’t abide by our laws to get here legally, I don’t trust that you’ll abide by our laws once you’re here legally.

        I understand that your country is in turmoil, but how dare you think that our laws shouldn’t apply to illegals entering our country the same that they would apply to anyone entering yours. Many illegals come here and DON’T have the means to support themselves, they DON’T contribute to our society (taxes), they DO vote illegally (imagine that, wonder why some want to provide them amnesty). My family deserves for me to be able to put food on the table just as much as those in your country do. The more we pay out in welfare programs, school, medical care, etc., for ILLEGAL immigrants, the less that I’m able to give my child. How dare anyone think that anyone else’s family isn’t worthy of being taken care of the way they want to take care of their own. How dare anyone think that my hard-earned dollars should raise THEIR kids, instead of my own. No one should be rewarded for laziness, even in your country, as the case seems to be, since everyone wants to ignore the problem instead of fixing it. No one should be rewarded for breaking the law, especially not out of Americans’ pockets.

        I, for one, WILL be trying to make a change and voting for RON PAUL. No one “deserves” what I have, nor do I deserve what others have. I deserve what I work for and earn LEGALLY. It’s not about equality, it’s about equal opportunity. So long as you’re legal, you have that opportunity and the possibilities only end where you draw the line for yourself. Otherwise, farewell.

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    4. Jake Witmer

      The fact that this comment is almost tied with “thumbs up” and “thumbs down” is very telling. I expect that almost everyone on this board is a Ron Paul supporter, especially the ones commenting and rating comments. Yet when someone says “I agree with all of Ron Paul’s stances except this one”, they get about 50-50 “thumbs up” and “thumbs down”. (Because Ron Paul is inconsistently libertarian on immigration.)

      This shows that consistent libertarianism is growing in popularity. It also shows something else: the general public wants open immigration. They don’t want to deny additional freedom to some people because they are brown, and don’t speak English.

      Will this degrade the standard of living in the USA? …Only if we keep paying half our wealth to parasites like Chuck Shumer, Joe Biden, John McCain, and Barack Obama to steal from us. …But if that’s the case, EVERYTHING degrades the standard of living, because there simply isn’t enough wealth to go around.

      STOP TARGETING “ILLEGALS”, START TARGETING POLITICIANS.

      NO MORE “DIVIDE AND CONQUER”!

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  16. Fred the Protectionist

    Ron Paul voted 6 times against putting troops on the border.

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    1. longshotlouie

      O M G !!! Which border?
      Was there a military invasion?

      O M G !!!!!!

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        No coyotes and Mexican drug gangs are not military, but their firepower is, anarchist.

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  17. Tom Pearl

    Anyone that wants to come to america and improve their situation can accomplish this in six years. I suggest that we offer a six year nonvoting citizenship to immigrents. No exceptions. Then they can take what they have learned and go back to their respective countries to apply that knowledge there.
    I always hear the excuse that we are a nation of immigrents. Not entirely true. We are a nation of european immigrents that all had the same basic culture. Now we have no culture and are an undefined group. Mao Tse Tung predicted this about america many years ago.
    ONE COUNTRY – ONE CULTURE

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    1. Fred the Protectionist

      Even European tribes don’t belong to where they are at now.

      The French aren’t from France, the Germans aren’t from Germany, the English aren’t from England, the Russians aren’t from Russia, the Geeks aren’t from Greece, the Romans aren’t from Rome,…etc.

      There is no such thing as a native, only ‘might makes right’. Unless you disagree with all advances in archeology made over the last 10,000 years.

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  18. Ray Harris

    Let’s build a canal from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean and let all the crap from China be sales taxed to pay for it. The “Friendship Ditch” wide enough and deep enough for our aircraft carrier’s and subs to use.

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    1. Gen

      Love it!!!

      To bad Congress will only allow taxing of “documented” citizens.

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      1. Fred the Protectionist

        A canal?

        Welcome to the 21st century.

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  19. christine

    The only border security America needs is surrounding Washington D.C. to pen in all of the politicians who are un-American. We have plenty of them. This would include the shadow government, NWO folks and heads of some corporations like Monsanto, AIG, Goldman Sachs and more. They need to be cut off from the rest of us so we can start afresh and anew…as a republic and be free of their psychopathic plans. These folks should be in therapy! There are psychological classifications for folks who think like they do, dare we call them leaders?

    There is a defining difference between Americans and the corporation that is the federal government, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. America is one thing and the corporte government is quite another. Our government no longer represents us (hasn’t for years) or listens to us.

    We need to strip them of their jobs and corrupt businesses. How would they like to have the experience of joining the unemployment and food lines, foreclose on their homes, no loan modifications, set up tent cities, not give them any loans for a business, feed them GMO food, put fluoride in their water, fly chemtrails WA D.C. so the air they breathe will cause illness and the ground they grow food on will be full of chemicals, give them a bit of HAARP, give them controlled media and TV to watch full of dumb down programs and propeganda, no internet, wire tap and put cameras up to watch their every move, no passports, submit their medical records so we can deny them care when the time comes, reduce their medical care and give them death counseling (they are all getting pretty old now), and no education whatsoever to retrain and retool. They can have the stinkin’ 10 mile radius they stole in the Act of 1871….just give us back America, the America we love!! the America that is full of good-hearted people who want to live in peace and not be the police of the world, antagonizing, disregarding and disrupting life everywhere and have no hint of “world domination” in our blood. Bring home the troops and let’s rebuild America! We’ve got plenty of work to do for all to be employed! We can pull together and do it…do it all for free, give and receive freely so all humans have their basic human needs met…nutritious food, pure water, housing, clothing, healthcare, education, a way to contribute to building strong communities across this nation. This is the American Spirit.

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    1. christine

      And when the dollar crashes, as it is most certain to do, we will have a window of opportunity to be rid of the tool they have used for destruction the world over. We will learn to value ourselves and each other and not let the abundance or the lack of money determine our choices or decisions, but rather re-discover that what is of true value is us, humanity. We will take care of this earth with respect and have respect for all life everywhere.

      Money is worthless sheets of paper or electronic blips on a cash machine. And we have let this control our choices and the quality of our lives? When we allow money to rule the world, God (Love) isn’t. Money is fake, just someone’s imagination that has captured our false belief in it. Love is real. We will solve poverty and elitism at the same time when we choose to believe in what is real.

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  20. Libertarian777

    As a LEGAL immigrant I FULLY support Ron Paul’s stance on this.

    It is a PRIVILEGE to live and work in this country NOT a right. And part of the privilege is OBEYING THE LAW. By definition, breaking immigration laws to get into this country should disqualify you from immigration.

    Ireland and New Zealand both removed the birthright for children of illegal immigrants, via a constitutional referendum vote a few years ago.

    I’d support birthright to children only for permanent residents and possibly parents on work visas (which is not to say I don’t think the H1B visa should be overhauled, particularly because employers VIOLATE terms of H1Bs and underpay the workers).

    Don’t you all think the government’s spending would be better directed to increasing border security with more police, instead of spending $700 BILLION on the pentagon and a standing army that eventually begs to be deployed somewhere (hence Iraq).

    I loved Tony Blair’s assertion that he still believed they did the right thing in Iraq, that they really believed that Iraq had WMD and had to act. If that’s his argument, why haven’t they invaded North Korea? There’s no ‘rumour’ about WMD, they’ve already detonated 2 atomic weapons.

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    1. Fred the Protectionist

      “As a LEGAL immigrant I FULLY support Ron Paul’s stance on this.

      It is a PRIVILEGE to live and work in this country NOT a right.”

      ________________

      Actually, foreigner, if your a citizen than it IS a right to live in this country.

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  21. Ryan

    I agree with your 6 point plan, Ron. I would add a few things, however.
    1) Punish all illegal aliens with stiff fines before deportation, to reimburse the tax payers as much as possible. In addition, we should consider confiscating belongings, such as cars and other high price belongings that the illegals have acquired while present in our nation illegally, and auction them off to the American public.
    2) Punish all employers of Illegal aliens with stiff fines, loss of ownership of their business, and mandatory prison time.
    3) And lastly, any repeat offender, in other words, someone who has already been deported once and has once again illegally entered America, should be treated as a foreign terrorist, on the grounds of Economic Terrorism.

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    1. Lindsey

      Ryan: Number 3 is a little harsh but I agree with you on #1 and #2. Maybe we should have them do a sentence of hard labor and then send them back to their countries instead of treating them as terrorists as you suggest in #3.

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      1. Ryan

        Perhaps I am a bit too harsh. After 40 years of watching my past/present/and future stolen by foreign thieves, with the approval of our political ‘leaders’ no less, I’m past the point where I can be satisfied with a quick trip to the nearest border for immediate release. All I really want is enforceable laws that make it highly unprofitable for people to enter America illegally, so they don’t continue to do it. And for those that keep coming back illegally, repeatedly wasting Tax Payer money and Law Enforcement manpower and time, I’d like to escalate the cost to the illegal alien in question. At some point they will stop coming due to ever-increasing losses to their own wallet, not to mention their own personal freedom. In any case, I really want this nightmare of illegal invasion / and massive abuse of American tax payers / and casual disregard of our national sovereignty, to come to a swift and decisive end, very soon.

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    2. peopleforgethistory

      Ryan you probably don’t remember but this country was built with immigrant hands. I find it quite interesting you impose your fringe conservative ideologies on Mr Pauls website. These “solutions” of yours are pretty darn wreckless and highly uninformed which can only cause more confusion in the problem rather than aide it. So instead of using some kind of strawman argument I suggest you get educated on the subject by learning the cultural and sociological history of the US, and take a couple political science and critical thinking classes at your local jc before you base your opinion off of watercooler hearsay.

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      1. Christine

        But we are in the present, not in the past. In the present we have current immigration and border laws that are being ignored and our country is suffering for it in many ways. Come to America, but come according to the laws we have. When in Rome, do as the Romans do….and that does not mean press one for English, free medical, cheap labor to cause our job market and standard of living to take a dive.

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        1. peopleforgethistory

          I agree with your comment but it is one thing to suggest extremist solutions to an on going issue in American politics and society. Since people are already here and working whether it be legally or illegally, I feel that at this point in time that Americans are still to proud to enter the service job field because of the low wages. Can you honestly tell me that there are that many Americans and legal residents available to fill up all those low wage service jobs even with the current unemployment rate? There are so many discouraged workers that can’t find jobs but illegal immigrants still manage to get hired. Why is that? Obviously its not just the immigrants faults if you want can blame it on the media conditioned psyche of Americans. Work is work and competition is competition. Survival of the fittest right? This is the product of Milton friedmans you know what jk. I admire Dr pauls work ethic and I do believe he is on the right track to help the US but I feel that he will need the help to reorganize and rebuild America.

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          1. Christine

            When Americans have worked hard to build up their country and businesses, and have raised our standard of living, it does no one any good to contribute to bringing it down to a meager level. People come here because of what they have been told about our nation. It was attractive for the reason above. If they come here and contribute to its demise, then what will they have gained? Nothing. And those here, those Americans who worked hard to build it up, well, I can tell you they don’t want to see all their hard work destroyed by ignoring our laws that were meant to preserve and protect our way of living for the benefit of all who live here. There are people working at all levels of income and skill level in America, even before the illegal invasion, always have and always will. The current economic difficulties are not just due to immigration and border patrol laws being ignored. The irresponsible FED, govt, shadow govt and corporations are acting in collusion against the citizens here. They are globalists and not dedicated to America (only to themselves), whereas Americans love their country and the constitution that is the founding document by which decisions should be made to keep our country moving in the right direction…up and forward, not down and deteriorating as has been occurring. Illegals are just one of many issues contributing to America’s downfall. I’m sure no citizen, illegal or not, wants to be the cause to live the effect it will most certainly produce. All who live here, illegal or not, will be influenced by and live under the same saddened circumstances. When laws are ignored, there will be trouble to follow. We need to check ourselves to see if we are contributing to the trouble that is being brought upon us, or if we are making headway in getting this country back into the hands of “we the people”…and regaining our FREEDOM.

            It is not an issue of pride. Americans have had a standard of living they have worked hard to support. Nothing we have accomplished has come easy and we don’t take it for granted. We simply value it. When something undermines it, we will react to what threatens it.

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          2. peopleforgethistory

            The one thing people don’t know is that the amount of money pumped into the US economy by illegal immigrant workers through taxes and product consumption is greater than the money spent on govt services used by them. If anything this helps the US economy. While they do take up a lot of lower level skill jobs many cannot acquire higher education because there are restrictions that prevent them to do so. As far as the American standard of living goes that is not so much dependent on immigration but the actual talent and ingenuity of the workforce. By workforce I mean everyone illegal and all. You have your illegals that are exceptional that can create their American dream through hard work with restrictions and can actually create jobs like their citizen counterparts. Don’t get me wrong but I do like where you stand on the issue I just feel that its a little too late to have a drastic overhaul on immigration. These immigrants have become too much a part of the workforce and even americana. I do believe if people that already have lived here for years, have paid their taxes, have waited in line for residency and paid their fine for breaking the law, they should be allowed to stay for that fact that they have paid their dues. Like you said its a right not a priviledge. I’d share the same sentiments as you if this country were barely starting up or starting over. You’re right that this is not the most important issue at the moment nor is it the main reason for Americas downfall but I do believe some people get overwhelmed by the state of the world affairs and feel like they its out of their hands so this is the one issue where people can take their frustrations and take them out on others. At this point in time all we can do is just work together and just manage with what we have at hand. I love this country I really do but all greats fall not because of their people but because of their leaders. I like your heart and how you want to protect your home. I admire that a lot. Things are not so black and white anymore its all super complex and all this crap its just sad. But its late now. Nice debating with you. Hope to hear from you soon.

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          3. peopleforgethistory

            *meant to say its a priviledge not a right.
            Ps read what will says I feel very similar. He said it for me and didn’t even know it haha

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          4. Christine

            Keep in mind that illegals are also being taken advantage of in the workplace. If problems ensue, they have no voice, no leg to stand on to correct the issue. Illegals get these jobs due to businesses having a difficult time financially, so they are looking to pay lower wages. It’s not that these jobs are necessarily of less skilled people. They may have been filled by equally skilled people, but the illegal will agree to take less of a paycheck for work that was formerly paid at a higher wage. They can do nothing about it either, no voice. Best all the way around, for all concerned, to abide by the laws and come to America legally. They don’t have to hide and can live free.

            Illegals are spending, yes, and this does add to the flow of the economy, but… when illegals come here it contributes to the lower of our standard of living, and it makes American shoulder the burden of their free medical benefits, then they are not helping our economy. The laws were written for a good reason.

            One thing the elite want us to do to make their job easier in bringing down America so they can bring in their one world govt, is to get us fighting each other. That’s not something I’m inclined to do. This is what the elitists, globalists do prior to starting wars with other countries so they can tell the Americans we, our soldiers and military, must go in to settle the unrest in the country. Well, now they are trying to economically destroy America, then other countries and the world, get people fighting within, create chaos, unrest here with homelessness and joblessness, businesses collapsing on the rise, at every turn is some new battle between the American people and this govt’s administration, as dictated by the corrupt elite, the shadow government, people we never elect. The illegals and border issue is just a piece of the puzzle. The elite are making use of how illegals ill affect our economy and the mood of Americans offended to push the one world government agenda.

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          5. Fred the Protectionist

            Sounds like some of you are obsessed over what is a “privilege” or what is a “right”, you never consider what is right or wrong.

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      2. Ryan

        Utterly ridiculous!
        First off, peopleforgethistory, I am already University (SCU) educated. Spare me the baseless, not to mention mindless, Ad hominem ‘arguement’.. two can play that, you ignorant liberal talking-points moron.
        Second, this country was NOT built by ILLEGAL immigrants… and Illegal immigration is what this “Border Security” discussion is all about.
        Third, my solution is 6/9ths Ron Paul’s own words, and my 3 additional contributions go perfectly hand in hand with the argument Ron Paul makes.
        Fourth, I make no apologies for wanting to defend my nation from foreign threats, whether those threats come here to blow up buildings or just steal that which is not theirs to take. We are a sovereign nation, like it or not. And we have a right to decide what the procedures are for immigration, as well as how many of each ethnic group we take in at any given time; so as to keep our “melting pot” status. It is the “open borders” gang that are the true racists, turning our nation into a “half-melting pot, half-Hispanic (all-criminal-half-Hispanic)” nation of Welfare enslavement for the Legal American Citizen/Taxpayers… including the Legal Immigrants. I suggest YOU get educated on the facts.
        And lastly, as a disabled citizen, one who has seen more than a hundred California Hospitals close their doors due to the flagrant abuse of illegals on our Health Care system, I can no longer muster any sympathy for their own self-inflicted high unemployment rate, birth rate, and atrocious education system which leaves themselves under-skilled and in constant and ever-increasing need of financially help. That is the job of their government, and should not be imposed as a burden on the American taxpayer. It’s not our job to prop them up while they continue the same old flawed practices that got them into trouble in the first place.

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  22. John E

    ONE POINT FIX to ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION: Fine the employers of illegals — problem fixed, done, over….

    This was done in Kansas a few years ago and 4 large meat packing plants went bankrupt. Kansas begged the INS to stop. This border stuff is a big scam to get cheap labor with no labor rights. We just pretend we want to stop it. Fining employers would stop the problem in a week, but it would bring financial ruin, so we live with this “Let’s all pretend we really don’t want them, and let’s spend lots of time and money on this so most of our dumb voters will think we are really trying.”

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  23. Dana

    When it comes to immigration I’m in agreement with Senator Ron Paul. I was born in Massachusetts but also lived in a few parts of Florida and I can tell you from personal experience we need to completely rethink our position on this subject. I applied for a job in Fl as a project manager but was denied because I didn’t speak Spanish. Now you tell me how fair that is, I have traced my family tree back to the freaking mayflower. My grandfather like many fought in ww2. How fair is it that I’m denied a job because I don’t speak a foreign language. These illegals need to go and if they want to come back do it the right way. I don’t care if a child of illegal immigrants is born in this country, he or she is not a citizen. American citizens need to take back their country before it is outsourced to India or China, I know some of you will think that is wrong but it is not, Everyone has the right to the American dream, it’s just the one’s that were born here should get it first.

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    1. christine

      Looking for work also and running into a lot of job descriptions I’ve not seen before like….bi-lingual preferred.

      I applied for a city job yesterday, first day it was posted. 52 other applicants. Checked status today, 85 and growing! Job does not close until Jan 15 so you can imagine how many applicants there will be by then. On another city job, more than 1,000 applicants for one job. Jobs are also being reduced to PT and adding MA or BA degrees when not necessary for the type of work. Few jobs and all these stipulations further reduces job opportunities.

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      1. sean

        Most jobs are looking for younger people. They are more up to date on electronics and start out with at much less pay. You’ve got to show them something that they don’t have, and that your capable of performing up to date tasks. Good luck. :)

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        1. christine

          No problem with the up-to-date skills Sean or experience. Much more than young ones who just know what’s in the book and no experience. It’s the border problem, bi-lingual — catering to criminals who have broken the immigration laws and no enforcement. And this administration is a much bigger problem to businesses trying to stay in business by hiring PT. Double digit unemployment. Cost of living rising. Chaos…socialistic government full of liars is a complete failure. All the while Goldman Sachs employees will get in bonuses something like 1/3 of the GDP.

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          1. sean

            Well all this stuff happened because of George Bush, but I agree that there could be extra steps taken to fix things not faster, but better.

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          2. christine

            Not really Sean. It happened because of the government that operates and has operated in the shadows. Presidents are appointed, not elected. Elections are fraudulently modified by adjusting the voting machines modems and the media, owned by the same shadow elite, controls who gets focused on…and as in the case of Ron Paul when he was surprisingly ahead…focused away from. Presidents are speech givers. They say what they are told to say and do what they are told to do by the elite behind the scenes who control the game. Been this way for years, and when they don’t….well, JFK.

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          3. sean

            haha, ya rahm emanuel’s the main elitist holding obama hostage.. To be truthful, I think every administration is it’s own gang.

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          4. christine

            Suit wearing Gangsters and Banksters.

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  24. longshotlouie

    A congressman uncovers two buried studies showing the impacts of illegal immigration, smuggling

    http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/threats-and-degradation/Content?oid=1624502

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  25. Lindsey

    This post speaks to the murders of our US Army troops today. We need to have a nation of common heritage who share the traditions and values of this country. Obviously this guy didn’t share those values and I wonder about his Palestinian parents. I say “America- Love it or Leave it”!

    Are we in a war on terror? We always have been as Christians and Americans. Ephesians 6:12 “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places”.

    Please pray for our country this weekend and ask that we all seriously reconsider our great Judeo-Christian heritage!

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  26. Todd

    Anyone who enters the country with no intent to gain lawful citizenship, obtains services paid for by US tax dollars when they themselves do not pay taxxes, and contribute to a percentage of a foreign contries GDP by sending their earnings back to that country is by defenition a terrorist. These domestic terrorists need to be dealt with by, instead of the focus given by homeland security on citizens.

    STOP THE TERRORISM NOW

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  27. christine

    We are not against anyone, no matter the color, making a good wage in exchange for the work they do. We all need a wage that supports a decent way of life and to enjoy living. What we are against is the corporate mindset, of making huge profits off all of us and not paying us decent wages for our contribution to the “corp”. We are against the corps using the influx of other nationalities to justify lowering the wages for any of us! It is taking advantage of all of us and lowering our standard of living. There are those of us who have lived long enough to see the decline. At the same time, we have lived and worked long enough that we thought we were working hard towards something, our version of the American Dream….but it is vaporizing…due to the corporations. Our American government is also a corporation, as in the Unitied Kingdom. Only fairly recently have many of us uncovered this little secret that explains their attitude towards us, the not listening to us, and giving us programs that sooner or later go broke, even though we have paid into them… to eventually get something out of it, to find it was all a scam for all those years of deductiosn from our paychecks. The healthcare bill will be no different. The U.S. government, a federal corporations has so much fraud, so much mismanagement, using the dollars from ordinary hard working Americans to bailout corporations (who have made the financial mistakes). These corps should pay for their own mistakes instead of sucking what little personal wealth we may have. So we all have basic needs that need to be met…all of us do…and we all deserve fair treatment in the workplace.

    Check out this video series on the corporations, Psychopath, Inc. These corps we work for actually contribute to pollution and poverty…not wealth for you and me. They are not interested in that. They are interested in making their shareholders happy and wealthy.

    We really don’t want to be fighting each other, which is what they want us to do, we really want a system that values and appreciates all of us and allows all of us to enjoy a good life. We all deserve it. Somehow the system has to change!

    http://www.livingquests.com/

    (righthand column, scroll down towards bottom for links on corps)
    http://www.livingquests.com/america/UNITED_STATES_OF_AMERICA_corporation.html

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  28. forrester

    ive worked as a drywall finisher and painter for 26 years now i cant make enough money to pay my bills thanks to the illegal invasion they have beat the price down to nothing we use to make between 800 and 1000 a week now maybe 400 if your lucky to find a job. no one talks about the fact the illegals brought h1n1 to america and will kill an estimated 90 thousand americans this should be a terrorist act. we need to go to war.

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    1. kassie

      That h1n1 statement was the most ignorant thing ive heard this year. An estimated 90 thousand? really you believe that? The swine flu isnt even that bad unless you have a bad immune system i didnt die and i didnt get it from an illegal i got it from a white person. America needs to go to war against idiots like yourself forrester. Have you ever thought about it from their side? America is the land of opportunity, in Mexico it is dangerous as hell, would you want to live there? No. Do you know what the wages are down there? No you dont? Do you know the living conditions there? No. If you had the chance to move to america to better yourself or you family wouldnt you take the opportunity. Yes you would because thats what a real man does, he takes opportunity and makes the best of it when he see’s it. If you cant make it as a dry wall finisher and painter then learn some new skills. Mexicans specialize in things like that so pick something that they wouldnt do and your problem is solved. Quit crying, life is tought so deal with it and quit being a baby. Without mexicans the country would be crap because WE do all the stuff YOU dont want to do. Because you think its gross or it doesnt pay well. WE actully work hard for what we have. Even if the pay isnt great we still do it, we dont sit around like some white or black people and collect welfare and unemployment checks. When you see a homeless man on the side of the free way if he is white he is holding up a sign saying “spare change, im homeless and want help: or some other excuse to sit on their a$$ and collect change. If you see a mexican the sign says “will WORK for food or money”. White people are so ridiculiously lazy and are so quick to blame everybody else for THEIR problems. Mexicans, blacks, and other races of that sort have it WAY WORSE than you. You have no idea what it is like to have white people constantly talk trash on your race because they are willing to do work for a cheaper wage. We arent greedy with our wages, we work for what we have and are happy with what we get. We dont sit around and cry all day, we get up and find a job. Forrester you need to stop blaming others for your problems and get a better job if you dont like all the illegals with swine flu taking your opportunities. Maybe lower your wages and see what their life is like.

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      1. Sam

        You’re ignoring the fact that he was making it as drywaller. Like too many people you’re ignoring the blow the economy takes by underpaying people, creating more poverty and a diminished middle class. You’re ignoring that corporation owners make higher profits than ever through outsourcing and hiring illegals they can pay next to nothing to do the same jobs. Why should people be happy with their way of life decaying? Granted things are worse in Mexico, but they are also worse in an unfortunately large part of the world. Should we bring all of them here? And then when illegal immigrants from say china are working at jobs for half as much as those from Mexico would you take the same approach and say “i guess WE’RE just lazy and undeserving of decent pay?” No.

        You obviously have a racist biased that over rides your logic, if you have any logic that is.

        My father worked construction until his employer told him he was more of a liability than an asset due to failing health. While i was growing up i was always around construction workers, and it was about 50/50 whites and mexicans. Now the only white people on the job are typically foremans. We will do the jobs, we do do those jobs, but not for shit pay, we shouldn’t have to (and thats coming from someone who’s never had a job above minimum wage.)

        As for the welfare issue, i’m guessing you’ve never been in a welfare office. If you were you’d no that it is mostly filled with mexicans, and a couple whites or blacks.

        He was talking about ILLEGALS not MEXICANS. As a matter of fact he didn’t even mention mexicans. You made it racial.

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      2. Marc

        Kassie, you are a racist whether you realize it or not. My family came to this country legally. Fought and earned everything they have through hard work. Being an American means having the right to give up your job, your time, or your money to help people…if you so choose. As General Fox has invaded this country without firing a shot, many Americans like the one you responded to have been FORCED to give up their jobs, money, and time. The differnece is choice. The issue is legal entry to this country. Consider that as someday your HARD EARNED money doing work that others dont want to do is TAKEN from you to pay for someone elses’ illegal activity. That is the reality of the illegal immigration problem.

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      3. David Caballero

        Kassie,

        Believe me when I say, I know and understand exactly what you are saying and trying to say, but you cant put all your emotions when you are writing. You must look at it from all angles.
        It is ashame that ignorance still runs rampant in this country, the land of “oppurtunity”….But its here and not going anywhere.
        You do come off a little racist, but again I get it. I understand because nothing pisses me off more than seeing people take advantage of the system we have put into place to help people that really need it.
        I agree with a lot of things that Ron Paul stand for, but immigration will always be that catch 22. What every race and ethnicity needs to understand is that they are all IMMIGRANTS too. So if anyone needs to get out, its everyone else but the Indigenous Americans (natives like Sioux, Cherokee, Apache, even Aztecs)…For all the ignorant people, please pick up a simple history book and you will see that this land was never “founded” it was taken from the rightful owners.

        The way I see it, Immigration should be allowed under certain circumstances….Lets take Mexico as an example. Mexican immigrants should be allowed to come into this country, given that they pass a complete and thorough background check between both nations. Once that immigrant is allowed in the U.S. they will be responsible just like every other American to be able to pay taxes and not be paid “under the table”…They will be held accountable just like every other American citizen. Now this leaves a hole or gap because then we would have to pay the new Americans the same wage as other Americans and that is the catch 22.
        Americans will never do the jobs that immigrants do, trust me…Ive picked fields and fields of tomatoes, watermelons, onions, and pecans in fall…Ive worked the field for a long time, hauling hay, plowing, raking, and got paid damn near nothing…
        Ask an American if they will work an onion field for $.10 a pound, nope….

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        1. SS

          An early scene in “The Man Who Would Be King” takes place in the office of an English colonial administrator in India. To stay cool, he had a big fan over his head flapped by a servant via a string attached to the servant’s toe. That’s pretty great! If wages weren’t so damn high here in America, I could have my own Untouchable toe-fanning servant too, instead of having to use my boring, totally uncool electric fan.

          Think of all the other hundreds of millions of jobs that could be created in America if wages fell to 19th Century Indian levels!

          Of course, I couldn’t actually afford to pay my toe-fanning flunky the full cost of what it would take for him and his family to live in America, but I believe the externalities of my servant’s existence should be borne by the public at large, not by me. Thus, my worker’s kids should get free schooling, the whole family should get free health care at the emergency room, his tenement should get fire and police protection, he should drive without car insurance, etc. Why shouldn’t I cost shift my conveniences on to everybody else?

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        2. Andy

          Kassie has the perfect point.
          All his opponents, listen up.
          How esle would you react if all cheap laborers you see is from freaking Liberiya (or whatever that country is) or Central America? Do you see any Germans or Britts?
          It is a fact that those “immigrants” just pussy-out from their own place due to their lack of resistance to their own country problems. If they so hard working and honest – let them built their own “USA” inside their homeland. Stop freaking rhetorical BS about “we all immigrants”.
          Whoever granted entry pass legally should be working. But look WHY and WHOM making these “entry quotas”. What is going on in this country? Is this is some sort of demographic meltdown that we, the citizens of this country need such large human injections year after year?
          Why do we need SO MANY immigrants?

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  29. JoniG

    When all is said and said all over again the only way to stop all the madness and get us back on track is to wake up our elected representatives. The only way to get there true attention is to remove the ones there now. Do not vote them in. We need action. We need a Ron Paul and all that support him to get our America back. Whatever you call yourself DEMS,REPUBS,RIGHTY, LEFTY, CONSERVATIVES, LIBS ETC. If we want to be a free Americans we better get it together and focus on the right leadership!

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    1. Andy

      I agree, but for whatever reason there some shit is boiling and some states unable to vote for Dr. Paul or Ralf Nader. I am sure I’ll vote for him whenever possible.

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  30. David

    Well i would say this. Any person in the world who believes in and is willing to dedicate their lives to, and if necessary die for the defense of the principles of freedom and justice established in the Constitution of the United States of America should be welcomed here.

    Any person seeking to immigrate here for the simple purpose of financial gain without any dedication to these principles, along with every US Citizen who was born here, and is eating up the socialist bullshit created by our banks and promoted by the politicians they control, who would make us like all of the other hopeless and miserable places in the world, should be deported, along with those who create and promote the bullshit.

    America is the single and only country in the world, which created for the purpose of establishing individual freedom for its population, and is the only state which at least in theory, serves its population, instead of the other way around. Those willing to support and defend this purpose are the ones who have the right to be here, regardless of where they come from.

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  31. Nick

    Dude, i just gotta say i dunno. I hate to agree, but i think i have to. I mean, it makes sense what ronnie says here, but it sounds so nazi, yknow? A bit of a moral dilemma I spose. I would like to know exactly what kind of facilities dr. paul plans on putting in place to allow for legal immigration. How much immigration will be allowed? How much will this COST? Aren’t the illegal immigrants who ‘take advantage of our healthcare and school system’ also paying income taxes for the jobs they do?

    Furthermore, I’d like to know how many people would like to have to pay US citizen’s wages for the jobs that the illegal immigrants do. any takers for a 100 dollar-a-night stay at the friggin motel 8?

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  32. Jake

    The president is giving away our country, and our security. Don’t listen to the things he says, watch the things he does. He has lied about everything he said he was going to do, and has almost done the complete opposite of every campaign promise he has made. He will not close the border, he is on record as saying he wants a govt run program that will get rid of private insurance.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

    Dont trust this guy. Hes got some stuff up his sleeve that will destroy America

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    1. David Bernard Daniels

      Truer words were never spoken!

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  33. Jake

    The president is giving away our country, and our security. Don’t listen to the things he says, watch the things he does. He has lied about everything he said he was going to do, and has almost done the complete opposite of every campaign promise he has made.

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  34. christine

    The government has purposefully left the border open. This way they can do what they always do to foreign countries when they go in to destabilize the country first, start a war, then take it over with a new government. In case you haven’t noticed, America is in a destabilization process.

    They get the people to fight amongst themselves, even kill each other, cause utter chaos so they don’t band together as a mighty force against the workings of the cartel. Saves the cartel running America these days lots of money to destroy a country in this way.

    They have no personal interest in anybody except themselves. They aren’t even genuinely interested in the healthcare issues, only in that it causes us to fight each other and it’s distracting so we don’t notice all else the cartel is doing and put the pieces together.

    Next in their plan…a new government for the North American Union with UN involvement.

    So if you know this, do the opposite and band together as a mighty force against the workings of the cartel, all and everyone. They just use people as a means to their end. Their only interest is that we comply as expected, mind-controlled. But think for yourselves human to human and practice non-violent, non-compliance.

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    1. sean

      “the problem with government conspiracies is that bureaucrats are incompetent and people can’t keep their mouths shut. Complex conspiracies are difficult to pull off, and so many people want their quarter hour of fame that even the Men in Black couldn’t squelch the squealers from spilling the beans. So there’s a good chance that the more elaborate a conspiracy theory is, and the more people that would need to be involved, the less likely it is true.”
      -Michael Shermer

      http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-people-believe-in-conspiracies

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      1. christine

        So why has the border been left open then, Sean?
        Is it helping America with the indebtedness to China?
        Is it helping Americans with high unemployment?
        Or is it increasing turmoil, fighting and chaos?

        So why is the healthcare bill being designed so illegals are paid for by paying Americans?
        Is it helping Americans lower high healthcare costs?
        Is it improving our healthcare system?
        Or is it lending to fighting within this country with little effort and cost on the part of the government?

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        1. sean

          The border hasn’t been left open. They just got finished building a fence across the border. They do patrol it, but like i said, it is an impossible task to monitor thousands of miles of land.

          We aren’t having an exchange system for healthcare, no public option.. Besides, the house health care bill was supposed to be self sufficient. It would not be ran from tax dollars. It would be funded by people who buy the insurance. Illegal immigrants would of had to buy into the system like they do any insurance company. Their money would actually make it cheaper for everyone else. The bigger the system, the cheaper it is.

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          1. christine

            ….From the guy who knows nothing about everything.

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          2. Brandi

            Sean –

            You do not realiz that the health care reform punishes small businesses by leveling large taxes on them and requiring they purchase insurance. It also taxes you and I to pay for the health care of those who do not pay taxes (illegals). Also it is a mandate by the government for you and I to HAVE to purchase something or be fined while those who do not and WILL not work or can claim they don’t work (illegals) have to pay nothing. Also you do not realize that people who currently work and pay lower costs for employer provided health insurance will not be subject to a tax on the health care provided by their employer. So this bill does not pay for itself. If you work as I do then you and I will pay for those persons who do not and will not work. Also by claiming the bigger something is the cheaper it is you are showing a lack of understanding. The bigger more complex a system the more expensive it is to maintain and the more prone it is to waste, malfunction, and collapse i.e. the banking industry, the US government, CONGRESS. Please take the opportunity to understand LIBERTY and what the FOUNDING FATHERS intended for you and I and it is not what we are getting and what the Obama administration is attempting to give us. We need to oust Nazi Pelousy and Scarry Reid and MouBama before our liberty and our freedom are just a fond memory of the good ‘ol times!!

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          3. sean

            Brandi-

            I wrote this when the public option was off the table and we were considering a co-op.. Yes I agree with pretty much everything you say.

            I believe we should reform the health insurance corporations instead of creating government competition. We need laws to protect the people instead of government handouts.

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          4. sean

            But yes, the bigger the co-op system, the cheaper it would become. Just look at the the co-op system we have for car insurance.. It is designed for people at high risk who can’t afford regular insurance. It works just fine, and is cheaper for those who need it… Even Ron Paul was for a co-op system.

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    2. David Bernard Daniels

      hmmmmmm interesting.

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      1. christine

        Yes, isn’t it. Notice that the U.S. president has been visiting the Canadian and Mexican presidents lately? The North American Union (a step like the EU in Europe towards the new world order, one world government) already exists (Bush created it all by himself without congress and without American’s voice, 2005). It consists of Canada, Mexico and the U.S. It’s not talked about much except in the circles of the secret societies that are busy creating the one world government.

        Two brave guys report on it openly.

        North American Union – Lou Dobbs
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtqAOUvUtZ4
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwqjARS-SfE&feature=related

        CNN-Lou Dobbs- Obama Backing North American Union Agenda
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgGEv-cdoms
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyz22I6dgcY

        North American Union Question For Ron Paul
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y30k3nkk54

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    3. David Bernard Daniels

      That is unbeleivably scary and I sadly think it is all true! You are completely on the money when u say they only care about themselves. They are psychopaths and it seems to me that it is impossible to rise to the top in politics and business unless you are a psychopath or a narcissist with no concious whatsoever.

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  35. sean

    I believe that everyone should be free to live where they want.. I understand how immigration can be a problem so we do need rules, but we shouldn’t totally spend all of our time and efforts to prevent people from coming over here. Besides, it’s impossible to achieve such a task. We should enforce the rules, but not overextend our capabilities. Illegal immigrants aren’t supposed to be able to get welfare, but they forge documents… Thats a strong argument for a national ID.

    You might as well call martial law to find all the pot smokers and all the 10′s of millions of people who are breaking the law.

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