Illegal Immigration

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Illegal immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for our economic crisis. But with free markets and private property, the need for immigrant labor becomes obvious. Most immigrants, regardless of the color of their skin, are open to the ideals of liberty: private property, free markets, sound money, right to life, low taxes, less war, protection of civil liberties, and a foreign policy designed for peace.

Ron Paul proposed the following action steps for dealing with illegal immigration:

  1. Abolish the welfare state. The incentive to take a job at whatever wage available must prevail.
  2. Establish a generous visitor work program. Once we solve the economic crisis by introducing sound money, demand for domestic and immigrant labor will rise.
  3. Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards. Allow states and landowners to enforce the law and provide security assistance.
  4. Abolish birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents' home countries.]
  5. End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.

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3,501 responses to “Illegal Immigration”

  1. Jan

    reference to labels;
    Today on C-span they are talking about "Pirates of the Sea's", stealing from ships of Oil while being transported, and whether to prosecute them or let them go when caught!
    My thought went to, all the Illegal Immigrant's in this country, and they are still debating whether to prosecute them or let them go........couldn't we label the Illegals , the 50 million of them, that have crossed our border to "rob the ship", who entered into the USA as "Pirates"!
    Who have robbed our economy, our jobs, our social service monies, our ranches, many lives lost (by rape/ robbbery/hatred for Americans) and robbed our social security and tax base, who got mortgages and credit cards from Bank of America when we couldn't, while our Federal Government, does NOTHING!, And we have a illegal President in there, Obama, who was indoctrinated into the Alkinsky Chicago Community Organizer, which is against
    our constitution and our freedoms in OUR country, for OUR People of the United States of America! What is up with this Obama? Siding in with Islams, Mexicans, Pirates, and is AGAINST the very air we breathe in the United States.
    Well read what he was taught and you see what he is really up to and what we are up against!

    CFR Meeting: Zbigniew Brzezinski Fears The Global Awakening
    http://www.wearechange.org/?p=1604

    American Thinker: Barack Obama and Alinsky's Rules for Psychopaths
    Sep 25, 2008 ... Alinsky called ordinary Americans "the enemy." Normal people don't declare war on all of society. But Alinsky wrote in Rules for Radicals ...
    www.americanthinker.com/.../barack_obama_and_alinskys_rule.html -

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    1. Tim

      I was looking at the "Reward: wanted for bank robbery" photo galleries on bounty hunter websites. It seems that Hispanics are an extremely well represented demographic in this category. About 60% of bank robbers so far this year nationwide are hispanic. I don't know where they came from, but the cost to banks, who pass their losses on to we the consumers or we the taxpayers, can be computed exactly. Thank you Hispanic Americans, illegals and visitors.

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  2. MADelynWoe

    David:
    (I know from earlier posts that Joan will agree)

    David you posted: "Our economy has been destroyed, our production capacity shut down due to an artificial lack of currency to pay for it, our population is working 3 1/2 weeks out or each month in order to feed the parasites who have gained control of our political and economic system, while they themselves starving to death in the midst of an abundance."

    And then you conclude: "The problem is that their just too dumb to realize that if they don’t save themselves from drowning first, they wont have a chance to have that next meal or any others in the future. There can be no more stupid creature on the planet than a “normal” person, not even a chicken LOL."

    Who is starving??? Play around with this "Food Stamp Benefit Calculator"

    http://www.ndhealth.gov/dhs/foodstampcalculator.asp

    This is why I wondered about the post from "Proclamation of Emaciation" saying he is eating lentils and rice. A family of 4 with a rent of $600 (low figure but it is the same at $700) that makes $1200 a month gets $563 in Food Stamps.
    Add another member to the household who is elderly making it 5 - you get $597

    An elderly couple who is receiving SSI of say $800 and their apartment is $500 a month gets $367 in Food Stamps.

    Point being: Nobody is starving! AND they are doing the backstroke spitting water up like a fountain!

    In my lack of political savvy, I see this as a country that is socialist, but doesn't know it AND really had no platform to call itself socialist, but there you go: we took the enterprise away and just called it FREE. And this is NOT an immigrant thing...it is US and OUR kids times millions who are NOT anchor babies but JUST anchors.

    And there's chicken a plenty on the first of the month...Government Pay Day.

    WE GOT FED. That is literal.

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    1. David

      Hi Madelyn

      Well this doesn't alter the fact that they have completely shut down our useful production and the people in this country who are not starving and have plenty are the ones who have been milking the welfare system for their entire lives and have not been involved in making any form of valuable contribution to our society. Those who have been making such contribution would not even know where to apply for food stamps in the first place and i think most would rather starve than suffer the indignity of doing so, so hopefully its those who will effect the necessary action to restore things to the way they should be, provided that they can some way, some how, actually begin to think and develop both the wisdom and the courage to do so. I do like your statement that "we took the enterprise away and just called it FREE" only it should be they, instead of we, and no it has absolutely nothing to do with immigration whatsoever.

      Of those you describe who are doing the back stroke and spitting up water like a fountain, I.E. the career welfare recipients most of whom have been born into welfare families due to "breed like a rat" incentive, I have known a great many of them as well, and each and every one of them has been born in this country, are citizens of this country, and their families have been here and have milking this system for many generations prior to this, and out of all of them not one single immigrant.

      This does give me a problem with some of the posts on here where people are making the assumption that these people are coming here to receive welfare, my question for these is do they actually know a single immigrant that does ? I certainly have never met one. In my area, and where i lived previously, as with most places here, the majority of the immigrants are Latin, generally from Mexico, many of whom i am very proud to call friends as well. Most of them have some form of legal residency here, and a few i have known were here illegally, but each and every one of them has always been involved in some kind of useful production or service, have worked very hard, often for far less than the work was worth, for the purpose of building as good a life as they possibly can for themselves, and in the process contributing their efforts to the benefit of everyone else's lives as well.

      The problem is that now that our banks have sucked all the money out of the system to pay for that useful production and just as i said shut it down, what are they to do, what am i to do, what is everyone in this country who was making any form of useful contribution to its population to do ? The perpetual backstokers are not a threat to these bastards power, so they will always continue to eat, but we are, and we are they ones they have to destroy to in order to make that power absolute.

      In terms of any hatred that needs to be generated in this country, it should be toward the banks that make this so and the politicians that they have put into power to help them do this, and it upsets me as much as it does you to see the hatred being generated in this country particularly toward the Latin immigrants, as i can't find any justification for it. Any such hatred is being misplaced on them instead of being directed toward the enemy that will truly destroy America and everything that has made it what it is, and thus is the best possible thing that that enemy could wish for, and again is a result of these stupid creatures simply trusting and believing in what they are told instead of looking and thinking and figuring out whats actually being done to them.

      I have a little time to write tonight, so i'll tell you a story that i think a few others could benefit from here too. I knew a young Mexican couple who were my next door neighbors in a town where i lived a few years ago. He was a punch press operator for a machine shop in the area and she was busy raising their 3 young daughters. They bought the house next to us, when i saw them moving in i went over to give them a hand, and by the end of the day, they, myself and my ex wife had become wonderful friends. We spent a lot of time with them after that. As with most, they had come here in order to establish a better life than had been possible in Mexico, but as with many didn't really have a clear understanding of why that was possible here while it had not been there. We got into a discussion one night and i suppose that both he and his wife had been believing a lot of the bullshit spread by those who would wish to establish power in this country, including the gun control propaganda that had previously been fed to them in Mexico as well. In response to that, i asked Juan, how he liked it here, and he said very much, that there would have been no possible way that he would have ever been able to provide his family with such a beautiful home and good life where they came from. Then i asked him if he felt safe here and he said yes. I asked him if he felt safe because of the government or the police, he said no, because of you, you have guns and if anything happens here i know you'll protect us. In that one instant the light came on, and he realized that whatever freedom or prosperity we had here, existed simply and only because throughout the history of this country we have always had people who were willing to defend it and who have also maintained the means to do so, and that he also had an obligation to do the same. In that one instant and with that single realization he became an American, and was no longer an immigrant. The following day he asked me to go to town with him, and i helped him pick out a good semi auto rifle and shotgun which he bought with some money they had been saving up to do some work on their new place, as i guess he figured his obligation toward this was more important and anything else could be done later, and a few days later we all took a drive into the hills so i could show both he and his wife how to use them. Everyone had a wonderful time with this and this became a weekly outing for all of us, along with some other friends my ex and I had who enjoyed the same. Within a couple of weeks about half a dozen of their friends showed up with an assortment of new rifles and shotguns they had bought for themselves, soon it was a dozen of their friends the rest of whom had done the same, and eventually it got to the point where i started losing count of them, let alone trying to remember all the names, but it certainly did make for a fun party every weekend for as long as i lived there after that, along with a great abundance of new wonderful and loyal friends.

      Because i asked one simple question, there are now a multitude of former "immigrants" who have now become "Americans" through the simple understanding of the source of the freedom we have enjoyed here and who stand ready to defend it along with all other Americans, whether they were born in this country or not. For those on here who enjoy hating immigrants, i'd strongly suggest directing that hatred toward those who have worked very hard and for a very long time in order to destroy the freedom both you and everyone else in this country wishes to protect before they actually accomplish this, instead of against those who would stand, fight and die alongside you in its defense, and then where necessary, simply help such individuals understand the need for doing so, it doesn't take much convincing to accomplish this.

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  3. The Other David

    The Southwest is witnessing the second great wave of illegal immigration. Between 1830 and 1860 thousands of Americans illegally entered Northern Mexico. They ignored the property rights of the then residents seizing their property without compensation. Ultimately they fostered rebellion against the national government of the time and purported to create break away states - which they ultimately caused to join up with a foreign nation.

    What goes around, comes around.

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  4. Aldo

    An alternative:
    1. Secure borders and control any possible action by illegal immigrants. And maintain border patrol under vigilance since they are the ones creating this problem, and making it worse--they omit their responsibilities. Almost what Ron Paul said.

    2. Enforce visa rules. That is simple, but it will cost a lot at the same time.

    3. There should be amnesty, but a controlled one. I mean, we should be realistic about this, deport 10 to 20 million people, just so they come back again. Not a smart choice. Rather make rules about who is getting this privilege; those who have paid taxes, who have maintained a clean record, who have been in the U.S for more than 3 years, etc. Reward those who have tried lawfully to stay here, but haven't gotten the chance.

    4. Welfare for illegal aliens who, again, have paid taxes, and provided a goods and services for their new society.

    5. End birthright citizenship. This is the best point. This is the cause of illegal immigration.

    6. I believe there should be immigration laws that give preference to those that have shown interest in progress in their community. To get visas is hard for those who try to achieve dreams. And there should be some kind of hope for those who have maintained a social status beneficial for the U.S. Not only movie stars, athletes, and politicians, but also those individuals who have no criminal record, good standard of values, for children who are academically, artistically, athletically gifted.

    What do you think?

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    1. Tim

      I disagree generally on the grounds that you are not addressing the illegal aspect of this issue. We already have legal immigration programs and those who comply are treated fairly. As for #2 & #5, I like that. Bill the visa offender for the entire cost, as it is their irresponsible action that has incurred it, and require it be paid, plus penalties and interest just like the IRS, before they are allowed into the country again for any reason. Put it on their credit score, let the diabolical international banking cartel annoy them into squaring their accounts.

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      1. MADelynWoe

        Nice to see you back, Joan.
        So you say: "The corporations can get ten people to work in China or India for what they paid one person in the U.S. I saw an article recently that said corporations pay people like $150 a month in foreign countries, and that it has not helped them get out of poverty. "

        I found an HP tower at a yard sale for 2 bucks. All it needs is more RAM and I re-installed XP. I went to the Hewlitt Packard website to get some info on the device memory limits. I decided to do the chat with a rep thing. His name was Shawn. After he linked me to the memory upgrade info, I asked him where he was working from. I told him, that I had been a Customer Service Rep once and always ask this because I know I can.
        He said since HP is global, i was rerouted to India where he works for HP there.
        I also found out about a year ago when I lived on the WA/OR border that my internet provider Comcast service reps were in the Phillippines.

        I also remember when a bunch of what would you call them-uh Activist Mother Earth women who lived in a mountain town I lived in Cali organized a ban on Disney products because they were exploiting 3rd world nations to manufacture their products (even child labor). This was circa 95.
        That Fat Monopoly The Game looking guy sure likes to mess with foreigners! :)

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  5. Plan B

    Here is an alternative proposal:
    1. Compel DHS to aggressively find and deport illegal aliens and foreign criminals
    2. Encourage civil unrest of the impoverished Mexican majority
    3. Support strongman favorable to US interests to replace corrupt Mexican government
    4. Rewrite Mexican national laws to permit foreigners to own properties and businesses
    5. Support strongman to suppress organized crime (and dissenters) in Mexico
    6. Bring in US oil interests to retrieve Mexican oil & in the process, create good jobs for Mexicans - IN MEXICO!
    7. Let Mexico deal with their new south of the border illegal immigration problem.

    Straight out of the G. H. Bush/CIA playbook, how could it possibly go wrong?

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    1. Ryan

      Not a good plan IMO. It is not our job to do nation-building. That always fails.
      So how about we just deport the illegals at their own expense, and then let them do whatever they please in their own nation?
      If they choose to vote for left wing politicians, let them suffer the consequences.
      It's our job to fix our own nation. It's their job to fix theirs.

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      1. Tim

        If we profit from helping them, we profit from service that even christians would recognize as good. Are you so stupid to not want to make a buck, helping someone? Are you Fred? Would not our economy be better if all our neighbors were strong? What do you think we are doing in China?

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        1. Joan

          Like Donald Trump says, we are letting China kick our butts and China thinks we are stupid. The corporations can get ten people to work in China or India for what they paid one person in the U.S. I saw an article recently that said corporations pay people like $150 a month in foreign countries, and that it has not helped them get out of poverty. It's more of the same, slave wages, whether they pay low wages in the U.S. or in other countries.

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      2. Forest

        Ryan says: "It is not our job to do nation-building. That always fails."

        Then the nation of the United States is a failure? Typical Ronbot, selecting history - from the last 20 years.

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        1. longshotlouie

          Must have installed fresh springs on your sneakers to make that leap.

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  6. David Brown

    Although I am at the opposite end of the spectrum from Fred the Protectionist, he makes a very good point when he says (although tongue in cheek) "Mr. ProclamationofEmaciation needs-to-fail because he’s was earning $1250.00 a week which is WAAAAY to much when there’s Chinese and Indians earning $100 a week for the same work. Why should ProclamationofEmaciation be bailed out by restricting the job market and artificially raising his wages above Chinese wages?"

    Exactly. If you want to have jobs in America making all those consumer goods now produced in China, either American workers will have to accept competitive wages or it will be necessary to allow Chinese and others, who are prepared to work for less than $5,000.00 per month, to enter the country to do the work. Why to American farmers prefer Mexicans in their field - because they pick three times as much, don't trample half the crop, do it all for a lower per unit price. Now that farmers can no longer access so-called illegal Mexican workers, labour intensive crops are not being grown in the U.S. Instead like T.V.'s they are now being imported. Quite frankly it is untenable to allow the free movement of goods but not the free movement of people - unless the U.S. worker is enormously productive compared to the Chiness or Mexican worker - but that is just not the case anymore.

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    1. MADelynWoe

      "Some things cost more than you realize."
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV1hQSt2hSE

      :) Prozac BEFORE posting, please.

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      1. Christine

        Too much talk about money hindering our ability to provide for our human needs in a world of plenty ....more than enough for everyone.
        Someone invented money. They can have it! The game is rigged to create haves and have nots by govt and corporate policies. How many times do we start to talk about a topic and the subject quickly veers to a money issue and then the resulting argument. We never really solve the issues because money is manipulated in such a way to maintain and/or cause problems.

        We need a world where everything is free and we enjoy doing what we do for "work" every day", plugged into a job that suits us, not because it is the job that makes the most money, but it is the job that is indicative of our individual skills and talents and is the most fulfilling and rewarding. People will be happier and when we are happier, we are healthier, and the world spins in the right direction........constructively and positively.

        Everything could cost nothing.
        All it takes is the willingness to share unselfishly

        ...and without an ulterior motive or agenda.

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  7. The Other David

    Boredomstryks. If anybody is bailing out anybody, it is China bailing out the good ol U.S. China's total loan to the U.S. dwarfs any loans that the U.S. is making (or giving) to other countries. The U.S, throws a few pennies to Greece because it does not want to set a bad example; i.e. forcing a country to become self-reliant. The U.S. is now the World's No. 1 beggar nation and when Asia stops filling your tin cup, you are dead!

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  8. ProclamationofEmaciation

    I am an American, who has not had work since September of 2009. My unemployment is running out soon, and my family now eats lentils and rice, served with a glass of drinking water.

    I used to bring home $1250.00 a week, and my family and I prospered, Life was good, and we had little worries. My wife doesn't work, because she didn't need to. Here it is, 7 months later, and we are looking at eviction from our home, we barely are able to pay the bills, feed our Dog, pay for the Gas to look for whatever jobs are out there, and then eat what food we can buy with what's left over.

    EVERYWHERE I GO - I see immigrant peoples, WORKING..... H1-B visa holders are imported here to take my job, while corporations ship overseas , taking more jobs away from me with them.

    And now the Legislation proposes 60 MILLION MORE H1-B VISAS?!

    WHERE IN THE $&%$ ARE THE JOBS THESE IMMIGRANTS WILL BE DOING?

    Currently, the majority of the workforce I see is either Philipino, or Hispanic (of which a majority undoubtedly is Mexican in origin). They are working. I am not.

    They Are Working - In My Country.... I am not - In My Country....

    They ARE WORKING - IN MY COUNTRY..... and I am not....

    Where, in America's brightest moment of thought process, do people believe the American Government is supporting the interests of American Citizens?

    More Taxes - More Thefts - More violations of Rights and Denial of Constitutional Freedoms... HOW IS IT THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS GOVERNMENT SUPPORTS AMERICAN INTERESTS?....

    I have a proposal to make, that best serves American Interests, and America as a whole. And I can whole Heartedly say that American's on this topic, will agree with it HANDS DOWN!....

    Proposal: SUSPEND ALL H1-B VISAS FOR A DURRATION OF THREE YEARS, AND ESCORT THESE PEOPLE, WHO ARE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY - MY COUNTRY - WHO ARE HERE WORKING AND MAKING THE MONEY AMERICAN FAMILIES NEED - TO THEIR RESPECTED BORDER OR NEAREST AIRPLANE AND WISH THEM A NICE DAY...

    Then mandate employers who suddenly have losts a 'work force' to HIRE AMERICAN!

    You know, back in the day they used to say "Buy American"... HOW IN THE #$^#%# DID IT COME TO TODAY'S SLOGAN OF "HIRE AMERICAN" ?!

    *sigh*

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    1. Boredomstryks

      ProclamationofEmaciation,

      I couldn't agree more. I'm sick of this "global poverty" crap. We have our own people to take care of, first and foremost. Unfortunately, your post will probably fall on deaf ears to many in this thread. Many seem to think that the only jobs they're taking are the ones "you won't do". Really? So, ship them all back, make sure our people aren't unemployed, THEN CONSIDER allowing some to come in. And I think that needs to be a lengthy period, before we do. Instead, our government will continue shipping jobs overseas. We'll continue to struggle to find anything made in the USA. We'll continue to bail out those who should fail. We'll continue to send billions of dollars to other countries, though we can't take care of our own, and they'll continue to try to keep us in the dark about it. How do we feel about sending .7% of our GNI to the UN, or $108 billion to the IMF? http://www.aim.org/aim-column/u.n.-to-emerge-as-global-irs/
      How do they continue to do this to America? And in case someone doesn't like that link, here's a video from C-Span for you: http://www.c-spanarchives.org/program/ID/212790&start=0&end=2352 It gets really good around 7:50. Wonder where your food is now? While we feed others, you're eating rice and lentils. I don't know about everyone else, but this pisses me off every time I hear about the UN.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        "We’ll continue to bail out those who should fail. "

        Well technically to the Libertarians, Mr. ProclamationofEmaciation needs-to-fail because he's was earning $1250.00 a week which is WAAAAY to much when there's Chinese and Indians earning $100 a week for the same work. Why should ProclamationofEmaciation be bailed out by restricting the job market and artificially raising his wages above Chinese wages?

        Right Libertarians? C'mon, gimme a hell yeah! Yeeeah, yeeeah, yeeeeah.

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      2. EndtheFed

        Fred, maybe if the government would stop "protecting" American industries that aren't competitive on the global market, and allowed those resources to be invested into something productive, America might still have globally competitive industries in which ProclamationofEmaciation could work without fear of unemployment and sudden economic collapse. Propping up an industry is a malinvestment that gives up the potential benefits of international division of labour.

        A government created dependancy on uncompetitive industries is hardly a solution for unemployment. It is more likely a cause of the problem since it harms market share and reduces the potential gains from trade which in turn lowers the amount of goods the economy can supply or demand. Just as individuals benefit by exchanging, so do nations. Try producing everything you need on your own and you will see the benefit of trade.

        Most of the problems you rant about, Fred, can be solved by reducing government intervention. Taxes and regulations are a big contributor to the outsourcing of jobs.

        If you had your way we would all be employed by the government making widgets that nobody needs, just for the sake of jobs. And when we run out of fake money because we had to trade it all abroad for the real goods that we didn't produce, it's okay because we will just print more money, no big deal. How's life in lolli-pop lane?

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      3. fred the protectionist

        See ^^^ The Libertarian doesn't deny that he wants American citizens earning Chinese wages to "be competitive".

        Libertarians and Neocons see eye to eye on this one.

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    2. Boredomstryks

      Fred, do you even know what a Libertarian is? SOCIALISTS, like our current President, are the ones who say, "There comes a point when a person makes too much money", and it's at that point that they decide you need to give it to everyone else who refuses to do the same, though they've been given the same opportunity. Of course, our fearless leader doesn't feel that way about his own earnings: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/04/15/president-obama-and-vice-president-biden-s-tax-returns Of course everyone else had better feel guilty and give, give, give, to the irresponsible, no matter what their own family or neighbor may be struggling for. And how do you know that ProclamationofEmaciation isn't Chinese or Indian? RACIST! He never said he was white, he ONLY said he was an AMERICAN. That's the problem with people like you, and all the others against TRUE immigration reform, as Ron Paul describes it, you are the ones who are racist, it's ALWAYS about race with you. You, yourself, just oppressed Chinese and Indians, assuming that ProclamationofEmaciation was white, and he was making way too much money, and Chinese and Indians are apparently incapable of earning that same amount of money, in your mind. You said it in your very own words.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        Hey i'm not the Libertarian always whining about how the Jewish Federal Reserve is being the source of all evil in the world, you are.

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      2. MADelynWoe

        So, I am watching this InfoWars video about the shooting in front of the Texas capitol building. And I hear somewhere the guy's name is Fausto Cardenas.
        BoredomStrykes, I thought of you and did a facebook search. Damn! There he is and he has 230 friends. Thank goodness only 230 friends.
        It seems to me they may just be MafiaWar or Farmville addicts. I don't think it is the right Fausto.
        Ron Gochez, was truly the one in the video. There are 3 groups against him on FB. There is one called "Real Americans That Will Fire Ron Gochez" that has all the phone and website info to have it done. Only 267 members in the group. I am sure you already knew this, though.
        There will be more soon, though because FOX news contacted the creator of the group, 4 hours ago.

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    3. MADelynWoe

      Proclamation:(I'll agree with your proposal but can't bite my tongue so I have words...)

      Ademant I may be to Liberty's golden door...
      She does needs to clean the house, before company arrives.

      When I see my lady Liberty not represent, I turn to lady Justice and she tells me hey try this blindfold....

      When I was young, they closed the pool for a time when it was hot. Apparently, it was contaminated. It was hard, but we found other places to swim...

      Bush said this once about immigration:

      "Latinos come to the US to seek the same dreams that have inspired millions of others: they want a better life for their children. Family values do not stop at the Rio Grande. Latinos enrich our country with faith in God, a strong ethic of work, community & responsibility. We can all learn from the strength, solidarity, & values of Latinos. Immigration is not a problem to be solved, it is the sign of a successful nation. New Americans are to be welcomed as neighbors and not to be feared as strangers."
      Source: Speech in Washington, D.C. Jun 26, 2000/ http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/George_W__Bush_Immigration.htm

      "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith, becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American… There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
      —Theodore Roosevelt, 1919
      ( he wrote to the president of the American Defense Society on January 3, 1919, three days before Roosevelt died.)

      source:http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_roosevelt_on_immigrants.htm

      Just go as far back as you wish on a quotation or historical quote...I bet they are all the same just different words. I am going to check all the faces on MT Rushmore quotes...
      Even party vs party they agree. And they all diss the Amnesty thing, though, but what is the difference? Amnesty or enabling with our values...?
      I am a child of immigrants....not only that did 6 yrs of service and I am a military widow.

      :) Prozac BEFORE posting, please.

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      1. David

        Hi Madelyn;

        These are very good quotes and i agree completely with both of them, if you'll read my response the original post, i think from some of your other posts that you'll agree, and that anyone with 1/4 ounce of common sense who was simply willing to look at what was going on around them and think a little bit would come to the same conclusion as well. Unfortunately the people who have created the problems love nothing more than to see people blaming immigration and anything else for the problems without realizing their responsibility in creating them and people are dumb enough to do it leaving them in a position to simply create more problems for us while they establish more power for themselves at the expense of everyone else's freedom and prosperity.

        I have known a great many Latin people who have made extremely valuable contributions to this country, in terms of military service as yourself, and contributions to its former economy which now has been destroyed by the same culprits who like to hide behind issues like immigration and if things were as they should be, then we would be in a position of begging and pleading for more immigrants to come here and help with the massive amount of useful production which could be generated if the economy was simply run for the benefit of the American people and not the banks, as there is no possible way that there would be enough people here to fill that requirement.

        The one problem i do see, is that so many of the immigrants come here simply for a better life with absolutely no understanding of what America is, or why that better life is possible here where it was not where they came from. They do have an obligation to develop an understanding of that if they are to be in this country so that they do not, through simple ignorance, give up the very things that made America a place that they wanted to be in the first place. We have a congressman in this area, he is of Mexican origin, his single and only ambition is power and he has voted for every measure that has come along which would have restricted our freedoms through the course of his entire political career. We also have a large Latin population in the area, and the single and only way that it is even possible for him to get elected is because so many of the Latin population vote for him simply because he is Latin himself, with absolutely no understanding of the threat that those like him pose to the better life that they came here to establish and it's this ignorance, and not their country of origin that is the problem. As Roosevelt said, they do have the responsibility to actually become Americans as a condition of being here, so that they will have the knowledge essential to keep the things that they came her for in the first place. Then as well, i have known Americans (white Americans believe it or not), who were born here, and who's families had lived here for many generations, who were not even aware of the American Revolution and had no further understanding of what America actually is than any of these immigrants, so the problem is ignorance, plain and simple, much more so than culture, language, or country of origin.

        With that said, i finished building a new home and shop for my business on a nice chunk of land that i bought several years ago. I ended up doing most of the work myself as that way i was sure that it would get done right and as a result i'm also one on 10,000 people who has ever gotten free of a mortgage in their lifetime. The one thing that i needed help with was the foundation work, and for that i hired a so called professional backhoe operator. He knew just enough in order to make some really big mistakes, he spent more time complaining than he did working, and 80 % of the work he did involved fixing his former mistakes as well. As a result, the job was dragging on for months which was much longer than i could afford for it to take. Then 3 young latin boys came around asking me if i had any work for them to do. I gave them two shovels and a rake, and told then what needed to be done, and in one day these boys had moved more dirt more accurately than the backhoe operator could do in a week with the machine. The boys had no idea what they were doing, but they followed my instructions exactly and did the work perfectly. I fired the backhoe operator and kept the boys, i paid them 4 times what they had been making on the farm where they had been working before, and shortly after i discovered that the entire latin population of this valley completely and totally in love with me for the simple fact that i had actually paid them what i considered a fair wage when i could have gotten them to do it for farm wages, and with that one simple act i had made a thousand loyal friends. Personally i could not have had it on my conscience to have done any less, and i only wish that i could have afforded to pay them even more. Within 2 weeks we were able to pour concrete and i could start framing the buildings. Had i kept the backhoe operator i still wouldn't be ready for concrete LOL :)

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    4. David

      Yes, i can certainly sympathize with your predicament as virtually everyone i know who was involved in any kind of useful production prior to this economic crash, whether employees, or business owners is pretty much in the same situation, and at this point pretty much everyone who has mortgages on their homes is in grave danger of losing them as well.

      I think what everyone needs to realize is the fact that things are this way, and the reason that you no longer have a job is far more a result of the fact that America's economy exists simply and only to serve the interests and power of parasites, America's banking system, at the expense of the American people, instead of the things they would like us to think are responsible for this. Through inflated housing prices the banks have managed to get things to the point where most people in American cities are working 3 1/2 weeks out of each month, in order to pay interest on their mortgages and trying to survive on the proceeds of 3 or days of work above and beyond that, and in many cases they are only paying interest and nothing in the principal in order to simply try and keep a roof over their heads. When the banks stopped issuing credit and crashed the economy, within one month, there simply was no money left in circulation in order to pay for what any of us could produce as it had all been siphoned off in interest, and hence you no longer have your job since your boss cannot afford to pay you when he is selling none of whatever product he was using the proceeds of to pay you with. I'm in the same position as he is, as i own and operate an engineering / manufacturing business and prior to the banks destroying the economy by taking all the money out of circulation i was doing great with some very advanced and beneficial technology id developed. For the past couple of years i've been forced to survive taking in little custom jobs which i would have never even considered prior to this, as the money simply is no longer in circulation to purchase the former, despite a very dire need for it. Everyone else that i know who was involved in the production of anything useful is in exactly the same situation today, and the single and only reason for this is that the Banks have simply withdrawn all of the money from the system that people need to trade with for each others benefit.

      Yes i do agree that uncontrolled immigration is a problem. We need to be bring in people who will actually be capable of contributing to the economy and who will be generating new jobs and creating new production, but how can that happen when the banks have all the money and no one has anything to pay for that production ?. Instead the ones we seem to be bringing in now mostly seem to be from the opposite end of the spectrum, and since our production has currently been destroyed by the simple lack of currency to pay for it, they are able to drive wages down to nothing as they are willing to work for that as well, and this will always happen where there are 1000 people competing for the same job, regardless of immigration. Many are also performing work which no American would ever do. My life is not worth that much to me, that i would be willing to break my back on a farm, get paid less than minimum wage, live under the trees in the farmers orchard in order to have less than what it took to properly feed myself, but i guess to them their lives are, so they are willing to do this. With agriculture and the economy being what it is, were it not for these workers, the farms would simply shut down as there is no possible way that most of them could afford to pay the wages that anyone else would want to do the work as there is so little profit in the business. I know many farmers as well and they routinely have to go to the bank and make $ 250,000.00 loans, in order to generate a $ 50,000.00 profit with more than half of that being consumed by interest on the loan leaving just enough for them to feed their families as well. This again is due to the fact that on a worldwide level, the banking system has control of the currencies and the people who are starving and need what the farms produce have no means to pay for it, hence driving down the prices to the point where they cant afford to pay their workers any more than they do, as the supply far exceeds the demand of those who can pay.

      if were going to solve this problem the only way it will be done is by mass action by America's population to destroy the banking system and establish a Franklin style publicly owned and controlled currency and credit system which was owned and produced by the people, for the purpose of maximizing our useful production and then consistently keep enough money in circulation to pay for the full extent of that production and increase it as that production capacity increased as well. If our prosperity is only limited by our production capacity itself, i think i can pretty much guarantee that there would be such competition between all of Americas business and industry for people to perform the work that there would not be one single person in this country who was willing to work who would not be, and that wages would skyrocket due to a shortage of people to meet the production demand. Then i expect that we would have to be importing workers from other countries as there simply would not be enough Americans to fill all of the jobs that had been generated due to the massive purchasing power that would have been injected into the population.

      Thomas Jefferson along with many others warned us that if we were to tolerate any form of banking system in this country, then the children would wake up homeless in the land that their fathers conquered, and i guess your about to discover that is prediction was true yourself. If people don't come to realize the true cause of this and deal with the dire threat that is posed to our freedom and prosperity now, then this will remain a permanent condition as well. We have a very short time to act and our politicians wont do it for us as both the president and every senator and a good portion of our congressmen have been put into power by the banks and are owing their political career to them as well. Then since most people are normal people, and the definition of a normal person is someone who is absolutely terrified of having to think for themselves and wants to be told what to think and do, with the banks being the only ones with the money and power to do the telling by now, what hope can we have ?

      At this point, immigration, and any and all other issues are the least of our problems, as if we don't do something about this now, there will be nothing left to be worth trying to save. Then the sheep that this is happening to still have no clue as to why because they simply don't want to look and think, so neither will they do. I do hope that you and enough others can come to realize this, and that you and enough others will get angry enough over what has been done to us that you will be ready to start setting up guillotines on wall street and start chopping the heads off these miserable bastards who for so many years have been the source of each and every one of the problems which everyone has experienced in this country and in the world as well. This is what it will take to rid ourselves of the problem, as the democratic process will not do it, and once this has been done, there will be very few problems as well as there will be no one left to create them for the sake of establishing more power for themselves.

      Right now, the simple solution could be very simple and all it would take would be for each and every person in America to stand behind you, simply stop making all of their mortgage and credit payments at the same time and then be prepared to defend their homes when the banks came to foreclose. They simply can't foreclose on every home in America at once and if they tried they'd be fighting a war they couldn't win. Then stop paying all federal taxes and force the government into producing a public currency and credit system, which is the single and only job we need them to do and the one job that they have never done, to fund their own operations or cease to exist. We'd have collapsed the banking system within one month, the economy would be booming by the end of that month with the massive injection of money which would be spent on useful production instead of being paid out to the banks in interest, and we would be in control of things and would have finally achieved government by the people, for the people and of the people, instead of by the banks, for the banks and of the banks as it is now. I wish people were that wise.

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      1. MADelynWoe

        David,
        "Then the sheep that this is happening to still have no clue as to why because they simply don’t want to look and think."
        You are very articulate in your writing. I read every word and can understand what you mean, but it just could not be done for the reasons that you stated above.
        And you are dead on how immigration is one of our lesser problems.
        The word for cash in Spanish is "efectivo".

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        1. David

          Thanks Madelyn, and yes, i sensed this in your posts as well that although this issue is of some concern to you, you also realize that we have far greater problems to contend with which make anything else completely and totally inconsequential.

          Our economy has been destroyed, our production capacity shut down due to an artificial lack of currency to pay for it, our population is working 3 1/2 weeks out or each month in order to feed the parasites who have gained control of our political and economic system, while they themselves starving to death in the midst of an abundance. Worrying about issues like immigration, abortion, drugs, gay marriage or anything else at this point is like a drowning man thinking about what he's going to have for his next meal instead of trying to figure out how to get out of the water.

          The problem is that their just too dumb to realize that if they don't save themselves from drowning first, they wont have a chance to have that next meal or any others in the future. There can be no more stupid creature on the planet than a "normal" person, not even a chicken LOL.

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  9. Jonathan

    Ron Paul is the most ignorant, self-centered man I have ever seen in my life.

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    1. Lindsey

      Jonathan: Ron Paul became an M.D. because he is self-centered? You are an idiot!

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  10. The Other David

    Dear Boredomstryks: By your account aren't those American politicians in Virginia and elsewhere who fly the Confederate flag and have Confederacy Days, also treasonous.

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    1. Boredomstryks

      The Other David,

      Are they provoking violence? Are they demanding a takeover of our government? While I think it may be somewhat disrespectful, depending on how you look at it, that Confederate flag IS a part of our AMERICAN history.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        So is the Mexican, French, Spanish, Russian, and British flag part of American history but you don't see nobody waving those here in America.

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    2. Boredomstryks

      Fred, again, your statements are not even relevant. There's a big difference in a Confederate flag and a British, Russian, Mexican, Spanish, or French flag. And just so you know, yes, they DO fly Mexican flags here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA

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      1. fred the protectionist

        That's right the French, Spanish, Russian, and British flags are never flown but the flags representing Cheap Foreign Labor are always flown: Confederate flag and Mexican flag.

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      2. Boredomstryks

        Awww, I see poor Fred is giving me the thumbs down on every one of my posts. Booohooo, sniffle, sniffle. Fred, you really need to get a clue about what you're saying before you post, it's obvious you have no idea. Please, though, don't stop on my account, I'm rather enjoying your stand-up routine (just don't ever hope to get paid for it). LOL

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  11. Eric Roth

    Paul's six point plan seems extremely reasonable, especially the need to begin with enforcing both current immigration laws and securing the border.

    I would add, or elaborate on, three minor points:
    1. We need a cooling off period where illegal immigration is halted for at least 2 years and the economy given a chance to recover before pushing for a comprehensive immigration reform.
    2. We need to constantly emphasize the advantages of LEGAL immigration, including welcoming brilliant scientists, entrepreneurs, engineers, doctors, and nurses to our nation.
    3. It's completely legitimate for the American government to choose which immigrants we want to live and work here - and demanding that immigrants pass background checks, learn at least 8th grade English, and pass a real history and civics exam to join the national family. Citizenship is more than mere residency; note the number of Islamic terrorists who were naturalized citizens. Belief in our core Western values - and sufficient language skills - remains essential.

    Let's hope that the media can develop a more fact friendly approach, and go beyond silly, superficial name-calling on this important issue.

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    1. Alfred

      Don't forget the most important point of them all, Auditing the Federal Reserve and bring back the gold standard. The Federal Reserve has more to do with immigration than we know. We know that the Federal Reserve is a private (secretive) Central Bank that creates instability in the market place by creating money out of thin air, and lending it out to unstable institutions putting a significant amount of money at risk. We know that the Federal Reserve is involved in transactions with other foreign banks. Nations in Europe, and Asia have been known to stockpile on dollar currencies, and deliberately devalue their currency to make dollars worth more. We know that the Federal Reserve lends money to Foreign Banks. The Federal Reserve doesn't only influence the United States economy in a bad way, it also influences nations all around the world to depreciate their currencies.
      Citizens all over the world in general are ignorant about their Central Banking systems. The American people allow this to happen because the American people in general are ignorant about our own Central Banking system. The Constitution and Declaration of Independence was written to protect individuals. I believe the core principles embodied in this precious documents were written to protect indivuals in this world.
      " We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created equal."
      The immigrants that come here are too poor to come legally. Many sacrifice their lives coming here. Many have died and will continue to die. What drives all these people willing to sacrifice their lifes. One word. Hope. The moment a Central Bank destroys their currency, that's the moment a Nation loses its hope.
      The immigration law in Arizona shows me how desperate the economic situation is getting. Americans are looking for answers. Ignorant or conveniently ignorant politicians point to immigration and most americans support it. This worries me for one simple reason, this tells me most Americans are still ignorant about how our economy works and how the Federal Reserve plays a huge part in creating the mess not only in this Nation, but around the world.
      If we want to solve the economic issue here in the U.S. and the immigration we need to first Audit the Fed, or End the Fed. Then we can encourage citizens to take action in other Nations to do the same with their Central Banking systems.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        Wrong the Federal Reserve doesn't conspiratorily destroy foreign currencies forcing immigration into the US. Unless they're Jews, you know them Jews can be a tricky bunch.

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      2. Christine

        I'd be happy if the FED took their worthless little sheets of paper and sat in a corner counting them, while the rest of us enjoyed life free of the belief that their money held any value at all, knowing we are what is of value along with our morals, values and principles. We could live in a society free of their manipulations if we simple gave and received freely...no money, no banker and no gangsters involved. We have the skills, abilities, strength, creativity, the heart to create a world where we share all with all so all human needs are met. We live in a world of abundance. What we are going through around the world, and have been going through is totally unnecessary. We need to get busy designing a society, a healthy world based not on money and greed but on love and free.

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    2. bore

      I agree, Eric.

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  12. David Brown

    I have observed on this and other blogs that the most virulent anti-immigrant posters often have very poor English skills. They can not spell. They have poor grammatical skills. They are unable to put together coherent sentences. At the same time these posters are condemning people from Mexico and elsewhere for their "foreign" culture. Before the pot calls the kettle black it should at least learn how to properly use the English language.

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    1. Boredomstryks

      David,

      Your post doesn't even come close to being relevant, or being true. Sure, there are many that can't spell worth a hoot and don't know proper English/grammar. What does that have to do with anything?

      Here's a problem, folks, like it or not, we are under attack and they clearly admit it:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s

      Don't have a problem with that? Then you are not American and should be ashamed of yourselves. I'm all for LEGAL immigration, NOT illegals and providing them amnesty, which is merely rewarding them for breaking the law. However, it's obvious that we even have issues with those here legally, and this is quite disturbing. This man isn't threatening any less than the naturalized Pakistani man that just failed at bombing Times Square ... AND HE'S TEACHING OUR CHILDREN.

      In case you've never read the oath taken to become a naturalized citizen, here it is:
      "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

      The link that I've shared clearly exhibits an act of treason. There is absolutely no doubt about it. Don't know the meaning of treason? Let me share that with you, too:
      1 : the betrayal of a trust : treachery
      2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family.

      Now, can anyone else tell me why this man is not being tried for treason, much less still a HISTORY TEACHER IN THE USA?!

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      1. MADelynWoe

        About the "La Raza rally at the Universidad de California Los Angeles...(video link)
        The young teacher (emphasis on young) has a lot of fire in his heart. This immigration law IS targeting hispanics...it CAN NOT be denied. La Raza means The Race (their race). College is where young people can and want to rally for their causes.

        Remember Kent State May 4, 1970.

        So you are saying..Ron Paul can call it Revolution (it looks cool on a t-shirt with the love backward thing...how innovative) it is all about the context.

        REV O LU TION :
        1. a drastic and far-reaching change in ways of thinking and behaving; "the industrial revolution was also a cultural revolution"
        2. the overthrow of a government by those who are governed
        3. rotation: a single complete turn (axial or orbital); "the revolution of the earth about the sun takes one year"

        Here is a paste from Government and Racism by Ron Paul:

        "Let’s be perfectly clear: the federal government has no business regulating speech in any way. Furthermore, government as an institution is particularly ill-suited to combating bigotry in our society. Bigotry at its essence is a sin of the heart, and we can’t change people’s hearts by passing more laws and regulations.

        In fact it is the federal government more than anything else that divides us along race, class, religion, and gender lines. Government, through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails in our society. This government "benevolence" crowds out genuine goodwill between men by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. This leads to resentment and hostility between us.

        The political left argues that stringent federal laws are needed to combat racism, even as they advocate incredibly divisive collectivist policies.

        Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist.

        The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity."

        Represent your Dr. can't you see the love in the Revolution or IS it really ass backwards?

        :)Prozac BEFORE posting, please.

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      2. David

        Yes, i'll definitely second your post Boredomstryks, and i couldn't agree more. Lol just so everyone understands, i'm not the same David that posted this as i certainly don't want any confusion in terms of that. Lol the post is stupid, ignorant and completely irrelevant.

        This country exists because of immigration and if it is to escape the future of the rest of the world which our banking system is trying to impose on it, it will continue to survive and grow and prosper because of immigration as well. As an immigrant to this country myself, i came here for two reasons. The first, was that the single and only thing which i had ever believed in or was loyal too, were the principles of individual freedom and justice on which America is founded, its Constitution and Declaration of Independence, and the second was that i hoped to make as many valuable contributions to this country which was founded on these principles as i possibly could. These are the single and only reasons why anyone should immigrate here, and anyone wanting to come here for any other reason has no business being here, nor do US citizens who were born here and do not share in these views. Whatever we do in terms of immigration policies should be done in view of this, including making it easier for those wishing to be here, who believe in the principles on which this country is founded and are willing to defend them, and who are actually capable of making the valuable contributions to our society which we need, to come here.

        When i was in my former countries military, myself and 90 % of the others in my regiment had joined up for the purpose of defending the United States as part of our countries NATO commitment. This was in the middle of the cold war, and as far as we were concerned, our own country was every bit as much our enemy as the former Soviet Union, but at least, by joining our military, we could make a contribution to the defense of the single and only country existing in this world which we thought was worth defending. Consequently, I was an American long prior to actually being here in person and receiving my status, as America was the country i believed in and in which i placed my hope, faith and trust, as were all of the others in my regiment who shared the same view.

        Hehehehehe, my friends 82 year old mother recently received her US citizenship, and somewhere during the course of the interview she was asked if she was prepared to go to war in defense of the United States and its Constitution. Her response to that was "YES I WILL !!!!!!!!!!".

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      3. longshotlouie

        Boredomstryks reminds the fanatics that this is not about immigration. This is about illegal immigration.
        That is something that our pretentious elitist English teacher visitor will continue to ignore.

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      4. Boredomstryks

        Josh Scott,

        Care to quote where I was "name-calling", or any of the other things that MADelyn said? Yes, I did say that his statements were ignorant. There is a difference. ;)

        MADelyn,

        Did you watch the entire video? Yes, freedom of speech is our right, but that doesn't mean that right comes without ramifications for misuse. For instance, ever heard of people suing for defamation of character or slander? The person they're suing was just expressing their right to free speech, right? And the same goes for freedom of speech when it comes to threatening a country that you took an oath to. He wasn't just "rallying" with "fire in his heart", because he's on a college campus. Did you miss where he was saying that where they stand was "stolen, occupied Mexico"? Did you miss where he said, "frail, racist, white people"? And there are no borders, they're at the forefront of a Northern Latin American revolution? I do know some Spanish, and I already knew what "La Raza" means, which is rather self-explanatory, isn't it? Doesn't calling yourself "THE RACE" sound rather racist? Hitler believed in one, beautiful race, too, with blonde hair and blue eyes. Should I start calling myself "THE RACE" in German? Personally, I wouldn't, because it's offensive and speaks for itself, obviously racist. And talking about "40 million of our people are north of the Rio Grande, in the belly of the beast", that doesn't sound threatening, particularly after repeating that we stole their land? Well, to each his own thoughts and opinions. I'm pretty sure you've never seen Ron Paul say anything like this. Too bad capitalism keeps this guy IN A JOB, which so many continue to forget. Again, if all those at that rally hate it here so much, and have so much "fire in their hearts", why don't they take it back to Mexico, Cuba, et al., and put it to good use there, where they have the government rule that they love so much and want ours to be like? Why? Yeah, we all know why. Because they know it sucks and AMERICA IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!! WOOHOO! :)

        And the fact that you think AZ's law is targeting Hispanics is only because it happens to border Mexico. It's not about race, it's about demographics. Were they on the border with Canada and having the same problem with Canadians, would you say it was racist against whites? I doubt it, because it's all good to ask a white man for his ID, but not a Hispanic man. Sorry, you break the law, I don't care what color you are, you face the music. The law clearly states "lawful contact", such as a traffic stop or being caught in the process of a crime. And the "reasonable suspicion" is not because they speak Spanish. The "reasonable suspicion" would be when they fail to be able to provide a valid state ID or DL, just as any other legal citizen would have to do along with vehicle registration (if for a traffic violation), regardless of race. It is the law to carry ID, no matter if you're white, black, brown, red, purple, pink, green, yellow, rainbow ... and whether you're a natural-born American citizen, a naturalized citizen, here on a guest worker permit, here on a travel visa, etc. It's that simple. Is it the state's constitutional right? Well, not really, but the federal government sure wasn't addressing it. Should we just continue to let people die needlessly? Sure, they'll still have crime from legal Americans, but at least they can now minimize those that are being caused unnecessarily by those who shouldn't even be here. Also, the AZ law clearly states that racial profiling WILL NOT be tolerated and any acts of such will be punished. And they also amended the law to make it easier for people who kept misunderstanding the terms "lawful contact" and "reasonable suspicion", perhaps you should look it up and read it, again. :)

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      5. Boredomstryks

        Btw, his Facebook page says "Revolution or death", still sound like a peaceful, "heart on fire" revolution? Go ahead, take a peak and see if you still consider him "peaceful". Be sure to notice his favorite books and movies. ;) Sorry, the link isn't working. Go to Facebook and search for Ron Gochez.

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      6. Boredomstryks

        Correction: Take a PEEK, not peak. ;)

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      7. MADelynWoe

        Did you watch the video?

        The young man's name is Ron Gochez and he said:
        "Our enemy is NOT the (Jim Gilchrist's) Minutemen. Our enemy is the enemy of Hugo Chavez....our enemy is Capitalism and Imperialism. If we are serious in making change, the struggle will go on for many more years,....what you do 24 hrs a day as a professional Revolutionary THAT is what is going to lead our people and ALL people to liberation."

        This isn't cold war socialism he is preaching. He is preaching Chavism.

        Chávez declared his support for democratic socialism as integral to Bolivarianism, proclaiming that humanity must embrace "a new type of socialism, a humanist one, which puts humans, and not machines or the state, ahead of everything."
        source: wikipedia sourced from Sojo, Cleto A. (Venezuela Analysis, 31 Jan 2005).

        He is not a traitor. He is American exercising his 1st amendment rights. He is rallying what cause he thinks is the answer to all this. Lovely, country we have where all ideologies can be discussed and heck give the guy a chance to think what he thinks...he has the American right to. He is also doing the socialist thing and going to a University to recruit his cause. There are always cause pamphlet and podium preachers on campus spewing it. As far as being a History Teacher...the quality control is iffy in the public school system. He probably will lose his job and have more time to gather crowds between class at UCLA. As soon as a conga drum trio sets camp close by, they will lose interest in him. Those college kids, they do the darnest things! ( :) Being sarcastic) The ideals that are written are not always what they seem in application.

        ""Hugo Chavez has steadily gained in notoriety on the world stage with his vitriolic criticisms of the United States, especially of President George W. Bush, and its allies. He has also aligned himself with some of the most controversial leaders of the early 21st century. His “friends” include Fidel Castro of Cuba, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran and Saddam Hussein, during his presidency of Iraq."
        source: wiseGEEK

        Ron Paul says this about Capitalism:

        "In the 1930s, it was quite popular to condemn the greed of capitalism, the gold standard, lack of regulation, and a lack government insurance on bank deposits for the disaster. Businessmen became the scapegoat. Changes were made as a result, and the welfare/warfare state was institutionalized. Easy credit became the holy grail of monetary policy, especially under Alan Greenspan, "the ultimate Maestro." Today, despite the presumed protection from these government programs built into the system, we find ourselves in a bigger mess than ever before. The bubble is bigger, the boom lasted longer, and the gold price has been deliberately undermined as an economic signal. Monetary inflation continues at a rate never seen before in a frantic effort to prop up stock prices and continue the housing bubble, while avoiding the consequences that inevitably come from easy credit. This is all done because we are unwilling to acknowledge that current policy is only setting the stage for a huge drop in the value of the dollar. Everyone fears it, but no one wants to deal with it."

        "Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism. A system of capitalism presumes sound money, not fiat money manipulated by a central bank. Capitalism cherishes voluntary contracts and interest rates that are determined by savings, not credit creation by a central bank. It's not capitalism when the system is plagued with incomprehensible rules regarding mergers, acquisitions, and stock sales, along with wage controls, price controls, protectionism, corporate subsidies, international management of trade, complex and punishing corporate taxes, privileged government contracts to the military-industrial complex, and a foreign policy controlled by corporate interests and overseas investments. Add to this centralized federal mismanagement of farming, education, medicine, insurance, banking and welfare. This is not capitalism!"

        "To condemn free-market capitalism because of anything going on today makes no sense. There is no evidence that capitalism exists today. We are deeply involved in an interventionist-planned economy that allows major benefits to accrue to the politically connected of both political spectrums. One may condemn the fraud and the current system, but it must be called by its proper names – Keynesian inflationism, interventionism, and corporatism."
        source: Pillars of Prosperity by Ron Paul

        :) Prozac BEFORE posting please.

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      8. MADelynWoe

        I don't agree with the man. I accept his right to express it. If he was on TV, I would turn the channel. And if he was breaking the law, I'd call a cop. It is funny he has a facebook page? I will suggest him to Sarah Palin's page (anonymously) just for fun..no not really. Yep, he needs to be watched you are right.

        "And the same goes for freedom of speech when it comes to threatening a country that you took an oath to. He wasn’t just “rallying” with “fire in his heart”, because he’s on a college campus. Did you miss where he was saying that where they stand was “stolen, occupied Mexico”? Did you miss where he said, “frail, racist, white people”? "
        I heard the stolen occupied Mexico, but did not catch the frail racist statement...
        California WAS discovered by Imperialistic Spaniards...then came the American Mexican War...we won...
        Do you think he is naturalized? I think he is on meds.
        Not much worse came from born in America activists in the '60's over Viet Nam (Jane Fonda) Please let's not get into it I know some guys in the service who called her a traitor, though.
        In the late seventies, I witnessed a group of UW (Wisconsin) students spitting on a Marine recruiter and calling him a killer, over Viet Nam. They threw his table over and scattered his pamphlets. He stood there and said nothing.

        I did read the SB1070 after the changes. I DID think it was pretty clear. I am aware of the demographics...and in addition AZ is one of the listed "stop and identify" states....
        And with all the law behind it, there is still going to be a barrage of stories...because no matter how much I would like to have faith in Law Enforcement, they continually fail when provoked. And they will be provoked. It will suck to be a Border Cop...

        x-----x-------x

        I really like what Eric Roth had to say.

        :) Prozac BEFORE posting please

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      9. MADelynWoe

        Oh and Boredom...
        My post about "I hate Fred" "Fred should leave" was in general not specific text from you...
        Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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      10. Lindsey

        Boredomstrykes: I agree with you! String that guy up along side the New York car bomber and the shooter at Ft. Hood! Thus to traitors!

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      11. Boredomstryks

        MADelyn,

        I think, for the most part, you and I agree, although I have to admit that it's kind of hard to tell as it seems like you kind of keep flip-flopping. Perhaps I'm reading you wrong. Again, yes, he has the right to freedom of speech. However, provoking people to overthrow the government with socialistic/Chavism (or however you want to sugar-coat it, it's still garbage), and shouting racial slurs (yes, watch it again, he said, "frail, white man"), is obvious to anyone else that he clearly has more of an agenda than just representing his heritage. It's like he's a Hispanic supremacist, but calling out for (without specifically saying) violence against our nation and the principles it was founded on. And yes, my point was that this guy, and others like him, all need to be monitored.

        Yes, I know that we have strayed from true capitalism, but that is what this nation is SUPPOSED to represent. And yes, I know about Ron Paul's views, why do you think I read this website? Not because I'm a troll, I'm a supporter. Yes, we need to audit and even abolish the Federal Reserve. Do you think they're ever going to allow that? Not likely, too many hands in too many pockets. Auditing the Fed is just one step, and I'm not disagreeing that it needs to be done, but it has nothing to do with violent crimes by illegal immigrants. That's another thread.

        Basically, I think that you and I somewhat agree, but I'm not positive, because you keep posting one thing, then the complete opposite. o_O Having said that, I don't need Prozac, but thanks for the offer. ;)

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      12. Boxer

        Wow Boredomstryks, thats AFU.

        Where is the DHS when you need them? Not interested? Hmmm...

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      13. MADelynWoe

        Nah not reading me wrong. I am flip floppy.
        I am just using that Prozac before posting as a signature. Mostly bad sense of humor. Again, nothing directed toward you.

        I came here just to see what (and I like the appellation) Ronulan followers were saying. Got caught up in the mix.
        Me pasting Ronulan quotes was mostly a study method.

        I am one of what David called the sheep.
        Trying to find what political pasture to mah on.

        I can understand your, handle Boredom and respect that you have remained dignified in Fred's pong game.

        I am not as educated and opinionated as some....but I do flare about MADelyn-ly. Thanks for your patience.

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    2. Tim

      Perhaps their English would be better if the K-12 schools didn't have to divert so much of their funding to address non English speaking student issues such as, well, not speaking English, poverty, abuse and violence. If the poor writing skill citizens take back ESL seats from the illegals, do they qualify for minority status college admission points? Or do we just get to pay for the schools for these criminals to decimate?

      What part of illegal parasite don't you get? I am reminded of a certain type of bird that lays its eggs in other bird's nests & then kills the resident eggs in order to get the other bird to raise their spawn. Except in this case it is the open theft of birthrights our ancestors struggled to obtain for us. In California illegal immigrants consume 10 billion dollars worth of taxpayer funded state resources, which is why CA is BK. That does not count the loss of jobs and wages for legal citizens.

      An Assemblyman from San Diego county says at any time 11% of the inmates in California prisons are illegal aliens; that San Dego county citizens pay 50.3 million a year arresting and detaining illegals; that 85% of the 490 gang members arrested in 2007 in North San Diego county were illegal aliens; and that a twice deported illegal alien shot to death a police officer, who pulled him over for a traffic violation. That cop had a wife and 2 kids.

      The PPIC illegal immigration impact studies have been proven to be fraudulent, that they were created for political window dressing.

      So take your victim spiel home with you.

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  13. Jim Coe

    Fred... why are you here? Why are you wasting your time since you obviously don't agree with anything going on here? I can only assume you're one sick person for seeking out the abuse you know you'll get from spouting your drivel. I pity you... but I do wish you'd just go away and find a site you agree with.

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Let's talk about something fun, let's talk about magic.

      Atheist-Libertarians, lawl.

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      1. Boredomstryks

        Fred, why do you bother, seriously? You obviously have not a clue about anything that your fingers fumble to type. You merely prove yourself to be quite ignorant and do nothing more than waste your time trying to pretend to be intelligent to those whom the opposite is quite clear.

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    2. MADelynWoe

      Fred is a blog instigator. He is a fact of blog. He is here to purposely turn the smart and pseudo-smarties into a game of hate posts. I hate Fred. Go away Fred.
      Why are you here Fred?

      He is a blog demon who toys with your values and beliefs to see how quickly you can become hypocrites and name calling fools. It is entertainment.
      He crept up on you first and started with the Neo-Con thing. Oh and you see it got you started.
      Like with the potsmokers are a waste statement.
      He was just seeing how quickly you would defend pot.
      Ron Paul says: "As a physician, father, and grandfather, I abhor drugs. I just know that there is a better way — through local laws, communities, churches, and families — to combat the very serious problem of drug abuse than a massive federal-government bureaucracy.”

      I wonder if there is a record for how quickly one blog instigator can turn all into name calling fools.

      It is a fact. Go see it- every comment section has one or more.

      :)Prozac BEFORE posting, please.

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      1. Boredomstryks

        MADelyneWoe,

        I'm assuming your reply was in response to someone else? I certainly didn't reply in any of the ways you're inferring. O_o

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        1. Josh Scott

          Lmao@ boredomstrykes!!! Maybe a better screen-name would be "amnesia-strikes"?!?! Jk, but seriously, you were also remarking on Stinky-Fred's obnoxiousness in only 1 reply prior to MADelyne's very well-put critical analysis of Stinky-Fred.

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  14. Alfred

    I'd would like to get the opinion of the new Immigration law that Arizona passed recently. I understand that most Citizen's greatest concern on this issue is about money. How much undocumented immigration is costing taxpayers? I don't know. I do know that a significant number of immigrants do file their income taxes. Any immigrant can easily apply for an ITIN( indiviual taxpayer identification number) to pay taxes. And many have. Many more would be encourage to pay taxes if the media would at least acknowledge their contribution and would stop demonizing them. Immigrants are human beings. I looked up the definition of Crime and part of it reads as follows, "While every crime violates the law, not every violation of the law counts as a crime." Yes, millions of immigrants have violated the law, most are not criminals, they come to work and earn a living. Millions are to poor to come into this country legally. Most have nothing. Most have nothing to lose, the only thing they have is HOPE of a better life. How did it come to this? 10-20 million is a significant amount of people, wouldn't you say? Ron Paul has focused his attention on the MOST important issue, the FEDERAL RESERVE. The peso was trading at about $12.5 mexican pesos to $1 USD, when in the late 1980's, it began a period of hyperinflation due to rapid government printing of paper money, mostly to finance social programs. The hyperinflation created economic chaos within the country and led to continual devaluations of the currency in the global markets. The peso devalued from 12.5 to about 3000 pesos for $1 USD in a few years. Ron Paul talks about the middle class being wiped out. Well it happened in the early 1990's in mexico. Mexico is only one example, every country has a corrupt Banking System. Interestingly enough the Federal Reserve makes transactions with other foreign Central Banks. Most people crossing the border are poor and have nothing, only hope to find a job, hope to work, hope of a future. This is a result of Corrupt Central Banks. We should stand together, and focus on fixing our monetary system. Then we can influence citizens in other countries to stand up to their corrupt government and corrupt monetary system. Unfortunately most americans believe that undocumented people are bankrupting their state and country. Little do most people what's bankrupting this country comes from a printing press that easily creates money for those "fortunate" enough to get it first.

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    1. MADelynWoe

      My father was a staffed professor at the University of Wisconsin in Agricultural Economics. In the late sixties, he took the opportunity to escape the tear gas and rioting campus environment by taking an US-AID position in Brazil. As a child, I had the opportunity to see South America.
      Beautiful people, beautiful cities and now look at the Brazilian cruz...wow it is stronger than the US dollar....
      The US-AID symbol on my father's Willy's wagon had two hands shaking with a shield background of red and white stripes and blue stars.
      Wish I had that Willy's wagon...raised a bit and 38' tires...you Ron Paul rednecks can relate. I bet in Mexico, one could find some nice project classic cars with little rust...I bet they have 4x4 clubs...hot rod shows....and like to listen to classic rock...I am sure of it. I am eating cake right now...
      Done with foolin', yep Alfred you said it : "We should stand together, and focus on fixing our monetary system. Then we can influence citizens in other countries to stand up to their corrupt government and corrupt monetary system. Unfortunately most Americans believe that undocumented people are bankrupting their state and country. Little do most people what’s bankrupting this country comes from a printing press that easily creates money for those “fortunate” enough to get it first."
      They can be my friends...I am heart attack serious...they can be my friends.

      Oh the below line has nothing to do with you, it is just my new tag-line

      :) Prozac before posting, please!

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      1. David

        Madelyn, i definitely have to agree with you and Alfred on these posts and he summed things up very succinctly with his statement:

        “We should stand together, and focus on fixing our monetary system. Then we can influence citizens in other countries to stand up to their corrupt government and corrupt monetary system. Unfortunately most Americans believe that undocumented people are bankrupting their state and country. Little do most people what’s bankrupting this country comes from a printing press that easily creates money for those “fortunate” enough to get it first.”

        This is indeed our single greatest problem and the one which has to be dealt extremely urgently with if this country is to survive and if there will even be a reason for people to want to immigrate here in the future. Compared to this all other issues are of very little consequence. This far the American Economy and political system (the representatives our enemies put in power and not the political structure itself), have existed simply and only to feed parasites, the banking system, who maintain control of our currency for the purpose or establishing power for themselves, and it has reached the point where Jefferson's predictions about what would happen if we tolerated a banking system have come true, and the children are indeed waking up homeless in the land that their fathers conquered.

        Since any politician we have in this country with the power to rectify the situation owes is political career to these same banks, the single and only thing which can prevent the complete and total destruction of this country and everything that makes it a good place to be, is mass action by the population to destroy the banking system and force the production of a public currency, and the establishment of a free economy where money is no longer a means to power, for the purpose of maximizing useful production for the benefit of the population. The problem is as you say, that most people are still too ignorant of how the system works to understand the threat that it poses, and being too stupid and lazy to think for themselves, they want to be told what to do, and those who have use their own money to establish power against them also have the power to do the telling as well. My fear is that they will only come to realize this when the banks have managed to establish the same socialist democracy as they have everywhere else in the world with the banks again deciding who the people get to "vote" for, much as they already do here now, and have have deprived them of their means to do anything about it, along with and and all property, any and all freedom, and any and all hope of prosperity which may have ever existed.

        I've said this before, and i'll say it again. This is the real and dire threat we face, and not immigration, abortion, drugs, health care or anything else, and should be the single and only thing we should be putting our efforts into dealing with at this point. Both of you might want to get onto the sound money blog and read through some of the postings there, i sense your thinking in the same terms as many of us there are already, and id expect you could contribute to the discussion.

        Lol Fred is no longer there anymore either, he tried, but was thoroughly trounced so many times by so many people with 1000 times his intelligence he finally gave up. :)

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    2. fred the protectionist

      Libertarian say: "The peso was trading at about $12.5 mexican pesos to $1 USD, when in the late 1980’s, it began a period of hyperinflation due to rapid government printing of paper money, mostly to finance social programs. The hyperinflation created economic chaos within the country and led to continual devaluations of the currency in the global markets. The peso devalued from 12.5 to about 3000 pesos for $1 USD in a few years. Ron Paul talks"

      __________________

      Ron Paul talks, he sure does, he talks and talks and talks, and all the little Ronulans also talk and talk and talk.

      It must really bug you Ronulans to know that the Federal Reserve has printed mega trillions upon trillions of dollars and it hasn't effected inflation here in the US one bit.

      Ronulans don't understand Federal Reserve; why should I want someone who doesn't understand how money works to audit-manage-change our banking system? That's just plain old nuts.

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      1. Alfred

        If you are comparing the dollar with other currencies around the world, then it might seem like the dollar hasn't lost much value. It might seem like The Federal Reserve printing Trillions hasn't affected the value of our money. Compared to many other currencies the dollar is still worth alot more. But its irrelevant how much the dollar is worth in Latin America or any where else in the world. Unless you plan to take all your dollars, swap currencies, live in another country, and spend it there. Interestingly enough, that is what people from Asia, Africa, and Latin America are doing. Sending dollars to their country. But Americans plan on leaving and spending their here in the United States. The value of Gold shows how much the dollar has depreciated. In 1970 the Gold was worth about 35 dollars and 2010 1 ounce of gold is 1165! The Gold Standard protected the value of our money. I don't know if there is any country that has a Gold Standard. I'm sure very few or NONE. Money should be earned by everyone, no exceptions. Money should NOT be attained by simply pressing a button, that says "print."
        Ron Paul is for a gold standard or currency competition(gold and silver). Ron Paul is not for managing the Fed or the economy. Yes, Ron is pushing for the Fed Audit, because Americans have a right to know what they are doing witht the money they print!
        All this is tied to Immigration. Citizens in most other countries are ignorant about their Central Banking system. And they allow the reckless creation of money resulting in economic castastrophies. Central Banks can easily bring a country to its knees. People all around the world know what' that is like, undocumented immigrants first hand. Ron Paul is rightfully bringing awareness about the Fed.

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      2. fred the protectionist

        Wrong, Gold is not an indication of inflation. Gold is in a big bubble. Nobody but gang bangers and shallow women value gold.

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  15. George Downs

    To Ron Paul
    PLEASE KEEP PUSHING THIS BORDER ISSUE. ILLEGALS CAN'T KEEP GETTING IN HERE AND GET MEDICAL CARE, BABBIES AUTOMATIC CITIZENS AND SOME HOW THEY CAN VOTE AND YES DEMOCRATIC. RON WHAT IS WRONG WITH ALL THIS CRAP AND IS IT POSSIBLE THEY CAN GET SOCIAL SEC. BENEFITS AND THEY ARE ILLEGALS!!!!!
    George and Susan Downs

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    1. Tim

      Anyone remember the OJ riots, and who it was the investigation determined started them and did most of the looting?

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  16. Bo

    Fred's a cop. Either that, or a left-over popular kid from high school who's sad that he doesn't get the attention he used to get. Fred doesn't realize that much of the music he listens to was conceived by someone high on pot. Fred is probably completely disillusioned about what marijuana is. Fred probably smoked pot a couple of times, and might have had a paranoid experience on it, so Fred decides that marijuana is this evil thing that actually turns users into the couch potato burnouts he sees portrayed in the movies. Whether Fred's a cop or not, I'm sure Fred talks about pot and "potheads" all the time. Probably chums it up with a good ol boy or something and makes little cheech and chong jokes about people who smoke pot. Some people are very short sighted. Fred is one of those people. Even when someone spells it out for him, Fred will continue to believe that marijuana is this evil force that magically transforms people into idiot zombies that can't spell anything out for anyone. Fred's confused. Fred probably had an overbearing father as well. Perhaps an alcoholic father. Wouldn't surprise me if Fred himself hit the sauce from time to time. As such, you never hear Fred talking about alcoholics being "wastes of space". Well guess what Fred! Us potheads are the creative ones. We're the ones that create the music you listen to. We create the scripts that turn into the movies that you watch. We write speeches for many of the politicians that YOU vote for! Maybe you should be less worried about potheads being a 'waste of space', and a little more worried about the fact that they have an advantage over you in the creativity department. In many regards, potsmokers (AND libertarians) are much better than you Fred. You're a short-sighted power monger, and a bully (well, you try to be don't ya). No offense Fred, but us libertarians (and potheads) have a word that we like to use for people like you. It's called Dickhead. We always say it about you, behind your back.

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    1. fred the protectionist

      Use paragraphs, "script writer".

      And I have tried pot, it felt like someone was stuffing a rag down my throat. Only an emotional wreck in desperate need to get high would smoke that crap. If you want a buzz where it don't feel like someone is stuffing a rag down your throat and don't turn you into a loser, then try alcohol or something else.

      Pot is a drug for loooooos-ers.

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  17. Christine

    Couple Arrested At U.S. Border For Asking Questions
    http://www.infowars.com/couple-arrested-at-u-s-border-for-asking-questions/

    This is the Northern border of America. The Canadian couple is being interrogated and harassed and all they want to do is just go shopping.
    America has always been friendly with our northern neighbors in Canada.

    And what about the Southern border? ...where the real crimes and illegal actions are going on? How is that border being handled? Perhaps we should take some of the northern patrol and put them on southern border patrol.

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    1. MADelynWoe

      Now you know why my handle is MADelynWoe...I got a little uppity over watching Alex in Phoenix last year. You can't make an opinion of him by the videos he did in 2009 Phoenix.

      Here is a good one of him and border rights watch the playlist on YouTube:
      Another Adventure with Rob Dew & Aaron Dykes on Alex Jones
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN87YPWdX5g

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    2. K St.

      Looks like racial profiling to me. Looks like the monkeys were 'just following orders', having obviously no training beyond prison guard.

      Welcome to the American Gulag!

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  18. Justin

    I totally agree with most of these points, except I do not support No. 3, "No Amnesty."

    Many illegal immigrants would be separated from their parents if we booted everyone without papers back to their country of origin.

    Many illegal immigrants were brought to the US against their will as children, either by their family or by human trafficking and labor exploitation.

    Many illegal immigrants have been illegally hired by US businesses. These businesses must share equal blame for enabling this problem to continue.

    I support a one-time only Path to Citizenship plan that would allow those who are currently working inside our borders (or directly related to those who are) to pursue full citizenship without penalty for their past illegal actions.

    Let's bite the bullet and put this behind us as soon as possible.

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    1. MADelynWoe

      Justin said:
      "Many illegal immigrants have been illegally hired by US businesses. These businesses must share equal blame for enabling this problem to continue(...)Let’s bite the bullet and put this behind us as soon as possible."

      Agreed!
      In 2000, I went to a job fair for an Aleutian Island Fish Manufacturing company that makes the imitation crab. I was willing to do the hard work and long shifts for a season, then come back with a lump sum. It couldn't of been any harder than the Armed Services Basic training I had gone through 10 yrs prior.
      I was told by one of their reps that they had come to the San Juaquinto Valley in California to recruit hispanic farm workers. Yep, to my face he said this.
      Dutch Harbor, AK
      Here is a 2002 paste up from their recruiting site:

      "WARNING TO FOREIGN WORKERS

      To work in the United States, you must be:

      * a citizen of this country, or
      * permanent legal immigrant (green card holder), or
      * you must have legal documentation that allows you to work in the United States.

      The Alaska Department of Labor and Workforce Development does not assist foreign nationals in obtaining employment."

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  19. fred the protectionist

    "Full Transparency Is The Only Acceptable Option" says Ron Paul. Totally dude, let's bring the Libertarian Party into the light of day and expose them for what they really are. Libertarians are Anarchists, neo-confederates (slavers), globalist (open-border/free-trade), Jews (anti-patriot anti-nationalist), and potheads.

    A drug abuser is one thing, a pothead is a totally different animal; a pothead is a waste of space like Libertarians are a waste of space.

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  20. Greg

    Fred, you fail hard.

    Anarchists, okay. Neo-confederates? Are you kidding me? How does the adherence to free markets , belief in property rights and free cooperation among citizens tie in with the Neo-confederate movement? I've never even heard of a Neo-confederate. Slavers? Are you being serious? I think you're confusing a Libertarian with a statist. You can't be a Libertarian and favor slavery. Talk about contradicting core values. Globalists? Perhaps, I don't really know what that means exactly. A Libertarian could be a 'localist' too, whatever that may entail. Jews? I'm sure there are Jewish Libertarians, just like you have atheist, Mormon, Christian, and Muslim Libertarians. Provide me the connection between Jew and Libertarian please. Drug Abusers? Sure, I suppose there are some, just as there are drug abusers among all groups. But are you suggesting drug abuse is synonymous with Libertarianism? Mind backing up some of your assertions with facts? I think you suggested another poster was scared of facts. Let's see if you are.

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    1. MADelynWoe

      I like Fred...he can protect us all. We can ride on the Federation Vessel NCX-3001 USS Proxima after it's refit. He can be the weapons officer...We can power up our phasers and load our photon torpedoes and rule the galaxy!

      :)Prozac before posting, please.

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  21. MADelynWoe

    I can not fathom a country with out some sort of welfare system because the ideal of the constitution that Ron Paul holds so dearly IS not true. Those ancient yet heroic wig wearers failed to conceive this that: All men are NOT created equal. There are always going to be those who can not do or need help. If we get rid of our programs that help and section 8, where do we put the percentage of people who just are getting by and can barely make a living. I guess we could be like in a third world nation...seeing dirty barefoot children begging on the street and handicapped people dragging themselves to their begging spot on the street.
    We have a good percentage of poor that have dignity, because of our social programs. You abuse Liberty and represent her falsely.
    Today she says: Je suis malade, égoïste et maltraité !
    You have put nails on her golden door and twisted her to do your bidding.
    With all your labeling what type of politics we are having here...yours surely should NOT be called LIBERTarian.
    And this circus of followers? One could see a niche for hard core right wingers in our political system, but your followers are hard core wing NUTs. Why are you then allowing such propaganda spewers like 4409 to use your name? That stunt with Pastor Steve Anderson at the border? And the side show black man in a suit gun advocate? He wasn't representing the right to bear arms...just the right make a farce of an honest cause. Why ruin it for the real advocates?
    There is something fishy in Paul land. You look and talk like you care for Amerisa, but all I have seen in your forums are followers that smell like bullshit.

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    1. Boredomstryks

      Well, I'm sure we'll all take your comments to heart. LMBO! Stop letting the government take our money via the IRS middleman and we'd have money to help our own, meaning those who are not able to provide for themselves, and not just out of sheer laziness. Wow, that's hard to fathom, isn't it? Try real hard to think of something better in your rationalizations, mmmkay?

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      1. MADelynWoe

        And when the shit hits the fan, they all are taking back their good will and moral majority compassion and locking the gates, gunning up and all the free loaders are gonna die? Sounds historically familiar....
        We are better than that.

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        1. Joan

          People have to work things out in their own countries. Most of the world wants to leave the country they were born in and move to either Europe or the U.S. People all feel "entitled" to have as many children as they feel to have, with no thought about how to support them, how to educate them, just move to another country and so what? If everyone is doing that, eventually the countries they move to run out of money an space. People in Mexico don't believe in birth control, yet many Americans and Europeans do. Let them have a revolution in Mexico, only have two children and be realistic. Not every person can have 5-10 children and just leave the country they were born in and ask others to pay for them. It's beyond nuts. People think this country has gold on the streets, everyone is so rich they hand out money to every person. It's nothing like that. Half the people in this country are dirt poor, only a few at the top are rich. There's nowhere for people to run to any longer, everyone is going to have to deal with overpopulation, birth control, corrupt governments, false religious beliefs and take responsibility for their own lives.

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        2. MADelynWoe

          Nah not so. Any barbie here stateside and down the block can have a prom baby and there is your 15-18 yr old on welfare, honey. We are breeders and lovers and even the smartest baaaarbie can screw up the prophylactic test. Man plus woman anywhere any race any country equals baby.
          And here in the states...we are more generally annoyed that American Idol was pre-empted for a week, than who is going to the grocery store buying a snickers bar with food stamps.
          It is ok, dear. Even with keeping the seniors healthier with better medicine, the boom generation is about to die off and already many of them are retiring and their jobs will be open, soon.

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        3. Joan

          People want the baby boomers to die so they can get all of their social security and Medicare. Look at what this country has turned into. Young people wanting a generation to die so they can steal their entitlements, that's all they think about. News flash: the World War II generation is still alive, lived to be almost 100, been on those programs for 35 years. The baby boomers haven't gotten one cent out of those programs, they paid ALL of the money for the WWII generation to get all of that stuff. They will live to be 100 too. But, the fact young people want them all dead, and then people lie they are not addicted to free stuff from the government and to lie there isn't a huge overpopulation problem, by time all people online talk about his how much they want others to die, in mass at that, this country is finished as far as being civilized, the whole world is beyond overpopulated, and it's down to who can we get rid of to get more free stuff for themselves. No civilization left, everyone wants an entire generation of people dead because 20 year olds can't function nowadays, and men can't work or function any more. Rome is burning, everyone is down to what they can get out of the government and get rid of this group and that group so they can survive by living off of the government. Anybody who watches all of this and doesn't want a one way ticket out of here is lost.

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        4. fred the protectionist

          Fine if you want a Social/Genetic Darwinist society, many of you Libertarians are of inferior stock/culture and you will be left behind to starve. If you want to reject even a minimal safety net.

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        5. MADelynWoe

          Wha wha What country are we discussing here? When good ol' dudes who live to be 100 are now like say 64...they look good in those new Toyotas and hell Applebee's, Olive Garden, The Sizzler, Red Lobster, Wal Mart and the Mall seem to never have parking...

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        6. Joan

          Fred, what would happen is with no income tax, people who work keep what they make. A lot more people would be willing to work if they could make 3,000 a month and keep all of it. No one is willing to work for 3,000 a month and take home 1,800, give the rest to the government, when people on welfare get 3,000 in SSI a month and 1,000 in free rent and free health care. That's why states are going bankrupt. All the 18 year olds who have kids to get full welfare, would go to college instead and go to work if there was no welfare. They are not underprivileged and they're not stupid. They are lazy and they've been feed free money for decades for doing the wrong things. The prisons would empty out over a few decades from no more welfare children. Crime would go down, people could only have as many children as they could afford to support. It would let Darwinism work. The way we do things now, we pay the least intelligent to reproduce. The illegals would all go home if there were no entitlement programs in this country. Can you imagine instead of 75 hospitals going bankrupt in NY, if the hospitals said, "sorry, we can't help people who are here illegally," none of those hospitals would have gone under. If we asked everyone to pay co-payments for health care, including rich old folks, suddenly no one would want all of those expensive tests all the time, all of a sudden people would care about what they eat and what they do, manage their own health a lot more. When it's all free, they get obese and run to the doctor and demand every free thing they can get. Then, the doctors are mean and angry as heck because all they deal with all day long is people on Medicaid and Medicare who feel so entitled and treat them like crapola and ask for everything under the sun.

          I just saw an article in the newspaper yesterday talking about Henry Waxman wanting to regulate natural supplements. The pharmas are lobbying him to try and stop people from taking herbs and other natural things for health, so the pharmas can force doctors to keep giving people all of their meds, have each person on ten of their drugs. Can you imagine? I take a herb like green tea, and Waxman wants a doctor to prescribe it to me, or refuse to, and give me dangerous chemical meds instead to keep making the pharmas rich. The politicians don't care about the American people, all they care about is doing for whoever gives them campaign contributions.

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        7. MADelynWoe

          From the NCCP (National Center for Children in Poverty):

          "Of the nearly 48 million people who currently receive Social Security benefits, one in three is not a retiree. One in 15 is a child under age 18. Many more children benefit indirectly from Social Security because they live in a household where a parent or another adult is a beneficiary. In the aftermath of the September 11th attacks, most of the children who lost a parent, as well as the surviving parents who stayed home to care for these children, qualified for Social
          Security benefits. Most workers disabled in the attacks, and their children, qualified as well.
          The first checks were received on October 3, 2001—less than a month after the tragedy."

          From the National Poverty Center:

          "Welfare reform, the 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA), redefined the goals and daily operation of cash assistance. This law transformed the traditional entitlement to cash welfare under Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) into a transitional program, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF), which requires most recipients to work after two years of receiving assistance, or, at state option, even earlier, with few exceptions. After 60 months of receipt during a lifetime, a recipient is ineligible for federally-funded cash benefits. "

          We also have programs like Vocational Rehabilitation, Pychosocial Rehabilitation Workers and Mentorship programs.

          So instead of dreading their existence and pointing and ugly Libertarian finger at "those lazy people" point them in the direction of help.

          So don't taint my tall green beautiful French lady by using her name in the name of YOUR policies...change your name to maybe Constitutionalists...or maybe not...excuse me I need to take my morning one.

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        8. Joan

          MADelynWoe, I agree with you. See, one in three people on social security is young people, and they are not working age, no reason to pay children money for not working when they are not working age. The only source of poverty is people having more children than they can afford to support. That's what "poverty" is.

          Two points on the welfare programs. California just went bankrupt a few months ago, so one of the things they cut out was the Welfare to Work program. The politicians said no one was using the program, so they did away with it. The other thing is when Clinton limited welfare, everyone moved over to disability, they just move to where the free money is, didn't solve one thing. That's why one in three are not seniors, everyone is backdooring the free money. I saw one guy in here who has four kids say he is on his "disability pension," SSI, and he has two of his children on it too, so he can keep his home, and raise his four children of of the government, he said he's "entitled." Everyone is entitled. Since he had problems and couldn't work to support himself, he had four children why?

          This is why I said people should have to take classes in marriage and parenting. You see what happens to people on shows like The Biggest Loser? Their parents had them without the parents dealing with their own problems before they got married and had children. The childen end up morbidly obese, go on the Biggest Loser, finally get a lot of therapy, they are finally shown how to eat healthy, how to cook, how to move their bodies, how important it is, they are finally given the self-esteem and parenting that their parents could not give them, and then they are able to change. That's the point. Anyone can have children, how many can parent them enough to get them on a positive path? Very few. If we're going to keep giving lip service to being a parent is the most important job anyone can ever have, we need to educate people, give them the tools to be good parents.

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        9. Joan

          MADelynWoe, I love your sense of humor. I know what you are saying. I meet young kids at the health club all the time who did 4 tours in Iraq. I'll be sitting in a sauna or whatever, and they are so unassuming and young kids, to me anyway, and all of a sudden it comes out they were in Iraq for years. They know what life is about from going to Iraq and Afganistan, and see, I agree with fighting the terrorists. Some people believe in being like Switzerland, neutral, some people believe we should have a strong military. It depends on how we think terrorists think, and should we be involved in creating democracy in the Middle East or not. Each person has their own views on it.

          I get what you are saying too about people in the U.S. are from all over the world. My three best friends in high school were two Arabic sisters and an Asyerian girl. I'm not from the mid-west or South, I'm CA coastal. I have issues with the lazy whites on welfare in the inland cities in CA. You would be surprised what goes on. They are the laziest bunch and everything is poor them, give them more free stuff. I meet women all the time who have never worked and have no intention of ever doing so and they have all these kids. Then, the poor kids are having anxiety attacks and other problems from the mom going from guy to guy, and some of these people had wealthy parents who spent all their inheritence money on gambling or whatever, and now they have kids and grandkids on welfare. I feel like the wealthy parents should be accountable for educating their kids and buy them a home, not just have kids, spend all their money and then the next generations go on welfare. I know one lady who never had to work, came from money, she also inherited a couple million when her mother passed, but, because her kids are over 18, they go on welfare, so do her grandkids, and it's fine with the government. Anyone over 18 can get welfare, even if they have rich parents. I know one lady who's parents are filthy rich, they give her a home to live in next to a country club, a car to drive, and she lived her life on SSI, lying that she is indigent and on GA cash and food stamps for having one child, again lying she is poor. This is the problem, rich white people are on the free stuff too. And, all of these people in CA who lie that their kids are disabled to get 1,000 a month for each kid, these people are raking in 3-4,000 a month in welfare just for lying. We agree about making 3,000 and after taxes what do you have? That's the thing, wages are too low nowadays and cost of living too high, like you said, how can a woman work and pay for childcare? It would take up half of her salary. People know they can fake disability, get free rent, that's over 2,000 net to them, so no one is going to work for 3,000 gross, not with rent being at least 1,000. And, how many employers are paying the Average Joe 5,000 a month? That's realistically what people would have to make before taxes to pay rent, have a car and be able to get by. The jobs and wages are not there. This is one of the reasons I like Ron Paul, no income taxes. That really gives everyone a huge incentive to work.

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        10. MADelynWoe

          Joan, I see where you are coming from. I lived in Cali, was born there, but daddy saved us and took us to Wisconsin. OMG I went back for the weather...lol
          If you like my sense of humor:
          The days when the food stamps were paper, the picture on the dollar food stamp ironically is a picture of the signing of the Declaration of Independence (captioned as such on the picture) and the other side the Liberty Bell....check it out if you haven't seen that:

          http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/221612/2/istockphoto_221612-food-stamp.jpg

          I laughed when I saw one and said "it should say a Declaration of In Dependence."

          The thing is those witches who are manipulating the system are showing their smarts in one way. They found a hole in the system and burrowed in like little cockrochas and there went the neighborhood! LOL And because of our freedoms, they are protected and don't get caught. They are ruining it for the real percentages of those who really need social help.

          I came here because I liked the "Audit the Fed" and I was curious what Dr. Paul thought about the SB1070.
          Can you link me to more about the no income taxes information?
          I like Dr. Paul, but the 4409 Revolution guys kind of set me off a bit. What IS it about that group? Do you know?

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    2. Joan

      There are millions and millions of Americans who would qualify for Sec. 8 but cannot get it. There are only a handful of vouchers, so it's completely unfair. Why should an 18 year old be able to have a child to get free rent, and a 50 year old who worked for 30 years can't get help with housing because they didn't win the 1 in 5,000 lottery? Why don't they have rules that you have to pay taxes for at least ten years before you can qualify for free housing? How is it helping anyone to give them that when the people who get all the free stuff do not feed their kids nor raise their kids? Why can't they use birth control? Why can't their parents and grandparents give them a place to live? Taxpayers are not responsible to give out free housing to young kids to work the system. It costs every household in America $550 a year to give out free rent to a small amount of people. It isn't right. And, if it was working, why are all of the properties that have free housing loaded full of crime? The stockmarket just crashed, dropped 1,000 points over Greece going under because of socialism. Many more countries are to folllow, many states are going bankrupt, CA, NY, NJ. There isn't enough of other people's money to keep giving out to people to have kids they can't raise and can't support. It's all crashing right now. Turn on the news, Dow Jones just plunged 1,000 points.

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      1. fred the protectionist

        Why why why why why. Because because because because because.

        Because you pushed tens of millions of Americans into the Democratic Party with your Libertarian-Neocon open-borders/free-trade, again handing the government to the Democrats. The Democrats don't need to be competitive when they own all branches of the government with a supermajority; so when there's no competition the social programs are going to be badly run.

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      2. MADelynWoe

        I found a link, but not a footnote on where this info comes from:

        "America survived and prospered for 140 years without an income tax, and with a Federal government that generally adhered to strictly constitutional functions, operating with modest excise revenues. "

        Can it really be done? Modest excise revenues...you'd think it would take more than modest...

        In 2002 or 2003 I lived in Montana. I think my younger rebel years allowed me the talent to sniff out a cop. I noticed while in a local cafe off the interstate, this pin these travelers were wearing . I asked and they told me...Cheney needs protection he is fly fishing....they were Secret Service. I don't know the exact figures it takes to do the fly fishing with all the vice presidential entourage...I bet it was up there, though!

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    3. David

      Now this post is way off topic and belongs on another one of the blogs, but very relevant to whats being discussed here, so here goes.

      This is what i'm seeing here, and i'm responding to everyone in this section and not just to Madelyn. Everyone seems to be believing in some established political or economic philosophy, which although seemingly in conflict are established by exactly the same people, the banking system, as a route to progressively more power for them at the expense of everyone else's freedom and prosperity. Socialism and the standard current welfare state, is the final evolution of our current form of Capitalism, and anyone supporting any of the current forms of Capitalism, including Ron Paul with his believe in Austrian Economics and the return to hard currencies, which were what established power for the worlds banking system in the first place, can only end up bringing about the final socialist result, where the banks have deprived everyone of all freedom and property and have managed to establish absolute ownership and power and control over everything, with the remainder of the population being part of their socialist welfare state, living in abject poverty, and being completely subject to the power of the socialist state which is then in turn subject to the power of the banks that established it.

      No one is thinking outside the box, and just believing alternate and seemingly conflicting points of view established by the same culprits all of which lead to the same result, they always win and we always lose, with each and every one of these.

      I'm going to post a link here that was provided by our friend Matt on the sound money blog, and id ask all of you to read it and give it some thought.

      http://bankmonitoringservice.com/447270-The-Need-for-an-Economic-Renaissance.html

      Once you've read it, an examination of history will reveal that the single and only thing which has ever generated any form of prosperity for any country or population is a public currency and credit system, where the currency is produced for the benefit of the population for the single and only purpose of providing a means for them to trade with each other, and maximizing that production in order to put the greatest possible amount of useful goods and services into the hands of the population, i.e. prosperity (which any form of currency is simply a means to and not and end to in itself).

      We've been talking about this concept for a long time on the sound money blog, so rather than reiterate everything that's been discussed there anyone here can simply go there and scroll back through the posts in order to see whats going on, but here's the bottom line were we to eliminate our banking system and put control of the countries currency and credit system into the hands of the people where it belongs.

      A - With the objective of maximizing our collective capacity to provide useful goods and services, one dollar has to be put into circulation for every dollar that the population is capable of producing in useful goods and services as well, and additional money has to be injected each and every year to make up for the economic growth that this would generate as everyone would figure out how to produce even more were the population given the means to purchase it.

      B- The end results of this would be as follows, and is something which has been studied to death by many people very knowledgeable in this matter, all of whom come up with the same result, and has been proven by history to be the only thing that can work for the general population's benefit as well.

      # 1; Elimination of all taxes, as governments (then of the people and not of the banks) would be able to fund their operations with low interest rates charged on loans of the public currency made to the population.

      # 2; A universal welfare system, where each and every member of the population could have their basic living paid for, and soon far beyond that as the system grows, above and beyond whatever they were capable of earning, and regardless of what they earned as well. Remember that most people work for wages, and the value of the wages is only a small portion of the value of the goods that are produced, so the only way to pay for the full extent of our production capacity, is to make up the difference by paying each person an equal amount every month or year as a national dividend, in order to enable the population to buy the full extent of that production.

      # 3; A truly free economy which has never existed in this world except for the short time prior to the American Revolution where the public currency was put in service through the colonial governments (Hitler used the same concept to build a bankrupt country where people were starving in the streets into a major power that almost conquered the world even though they were outnumbered 30 : 1 in the space of 5 years, but his ambition was power more so than the benefit of his people. Even so, with 95 % of the production this generated going into the war effort, the German people still experienced prosperity such as they had never seen in history on the 5 % that was left from that, so can anyone imagine the possibilities with our increased technology and production capacity today were this done simply for the public benefit ?) In this economy, each and every person who was willing and capable of producing something that could be of benefit to someone else, will be free to do so, with one dollar circulating among the population for every dollars worth of useful goods or services that they can provide. (Since the currency would be public, it could also not be used by private interests to buy power and suppress competition and beneficial technology in order to protect their markets as it does today).

      Bottom line. Anyone who does not want to work or is not capable of working will have their basic living paid for, and will still be making a useful contribution to the economy and to society by purchasing the production and services generated by the others. Anyone working at a job, will have whatever they earn available to spend on the things they want instead of having to consume it to live as that money will have already been provided, and will all have their homes paid for in a few short years instead of a lifetime of interest only loans, and will end up with pretty much everything they could possibly want or need thereafter. Anyone going into any form of business providing any form of useful production or service that can benefit the population will be getting extremely rich from this, and the only limit to that persons prosperity will be what he can produce and not the amount of money in circulation to pay for it, and this will be this persons just reward for providing those useful goods and services which benefit the rest of the population as well.

      Sound to good to be true ?. Well look at the annual combined profits of our banking system and the annual spending of the government which is loaned from the banks at interest that we have to pay, all of which are stolen by the banks from the American people through control of our so called United States Currency, and that should give you an idea of where to start. Then take this amount and multiply it by at least 10, as i don't think America's business and industry have ever been producing at much more than 10 % of their actual capacity, given a lack of currency to pay for it, and currently its not even 1 %. Then consider the economic growth that our current production capacity, operating at maximum will generate, and soon your looking at 20 X, then 100 X what it could be today.

      For those who object to this. Well the only reason i can think of to object to something like this, is that someone would be so consumed by envy that they either could not stand the thought of everyone in the country, including themselves, getting something for free, or if a socialist type, again so consumed by envy, that they would rather live in abject poverty themselves rather than see someone else have the opportunity to become happy and successful, making this an incredibly stupid and self destructive person.

      We currently have the capacity in this country, and in the world as well, to produce an abundance so far beyond most peoples comprehension that they simply are not capable of imagining it, and the only thing keeping us from producing that abundance for our mutual benefit is that banks control and issue the supply of currency and credit that we need in order to trade with each other, and restrict that issue to suppress this production capacity for the purpose of establishing ever more power for themselves. What do we need to do in order to have this for ourselves ? Through mass action by America's population, destroy America's banking system, completely, totally and utterly, along with the politicians they have put onto power to serve their interests, and restore both an American government, an American currency and a American economy, by the people, for the people, and of the people, just as this countries founding fathers intended it to be.

      The problem is that all of the stupid F'ing sheep just want to trust and believe, instead of thinking and realizing the possibilities and potential for themselves, with the banks having the money and power to tell them what to trust and believe in.

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  22. Randall

    I've worked alongside illegals since I was a kid. They used to be mostly decent hard working people, it was the gangs who were the bad guys, and the people I worked with were avoiding them too. Then over the years it got so the majority of workers in my industry, which was construction, were illegal immigrants. About 10 years ago they started cutting my power cords and dropping hammers, saws, debris where they knew I was standing. Mob mentality with a common ax to grind = gang.

    This has spilled onto the streets and is now a huge interstate crime problem. I resent the impotent government and their criminal management friends, the so called "entrepreneur" component of capitalism, for taking illegal shortcuts and dodging their taxes by hiring illegals. I'd deport them along with their illegal workers.

    I hate polka music. Thats no reason I should have to fear for my life at work.

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  23. Cato

    Its inconsistent to say you don't want the government to interfere with your liberty, but to then ask that the government interfere with the liberty of your neighbor. Why is the freedom to employ who you wish any different than the freedom to practice the religion you choose, or the freedom to bear arms? If you don't want to hire a hispanic person, that is your choice. But why should you be able to get the government to prevent me from hiring a hispanic?

    The call for labor restrictions is nothing but protectionism and nativism. If I were to say that you should not hire non-Californians in California, I think many would agree that is an unreasonable infringement of my rights. Why is it that if I want to hire a Mexican, the equation is different? When Thomas Paine wrote about the innate rights of men, he did not put in a caveat that limited those rights to the domain of one state or another.

    On this forum people clamor against the externalities caused by their neighbors hiring illegals, and insist that the federal government intervene on their behalf. But how is this any different from when an environmentalist clamors for federal intervention to halt externalities like pollution?

    If we believe in decentralized solutions and enforcement of norms through local means, rather than government fiat, then shouldn't we all be asking for open borders, and allow people to make their own choices about who they hire?

    The argument that immigration is damaging the economy is false. Libertarian think tanks like Cato Institute, and libertarian-leaning news sources like the Wall Street Journal and the Economist have all debunked that myth. Cheap labor is not bad for an economy as a whole -- although it may be bad for the wages of specific workers.

    If you want to live the lifestyle of a middle class American, it is unrealistic to expect the rest of America to pay you that wage for doing the equivalent of third world manual labor. Forcing educated Americans, who have gained advanced skills that boosts their productivity, to pay you, the uneducated, a higher wage, is not libertarian. It is communist. You want us to pay more than the market rate. You want the government to intervene to protect your sector of the economy from cheap competition. You want them to do this by preventing that competition from crossing the border. That is in your interest, but it isn't in the interest of any American who has bothered to get skills that are in demand in the modern economy. Such workers have to pay more money to get their house dry-walled or whatever it is -- because certain workers have lobbied the Federal government to remove choice from the market.

    Its fundamentally identical to what unions do, what corrupt businesses do, or what any other lobbyist does for his special interest group.

    And then finally if you take a historical perspective on the matter: when my ancestors came here, there were no immigration quotas. It was easy to come over. You came to ellis island, and unless you had some sort of disease, you were let in. People can't just come in when they want to any more. There are far more rigorous quotas. If you tried to come in legally, you would just not be allowed in. Its not a question of the illegals choosing not to come in to avoid paying some fee ... its a choice between coming as an illegal and not coming at all. So it is somewhat ironic when those of us with Irish, Italian, Greek, and Slovak heritage clamor to stop latino immigration. At one time, WASPs were trying to stop us from entering the country too. Using the EXACT same nativist arguments ... that there are not enough jobs and resources.

    There are plenty of jobs and resources, if there weren't people wouldn't come here. Nobody travels thousands of miles to do nothing. They come to work. Just like our ancestors did. I for one have never seen a Mexican begging for money. They always seem to be working. On the other hand, I see lots of white and black people on welfare, and they have been here for ages.

    To play devil's advocate: if I were to echo the sentiments on this page ...
    if we are going to use some criteria to determine eligibility to remain in the US, why should it be your national citizenship? If anything, maybe you should be deported if you are not working, not if you are Mexican. Maybe you should be deported if you were too dumb to study hard enough to learn skills that are useful, instead of dry-walling. What rational reason can there be for giving preference to someone to live here, just because they were born here? Is it only because that has been the tradition so far? Why should the most productive citizens, carry the rest who have squandered their opportunities for education and betterment? Because closing off the borders is that -- the most productive citizens are forced to pay higher wages to those who could not otherwise compete in a free market.

    And if you support that proposition, why don't you just support universal welfare for these less educated people? Its the same end result. A shrinking of the real income of the educated to subsidize the wages of the less educated.

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    1. Joan

      We are already long since at the educated have less children and pay for the dumb people to live and reproduce. That's one of the reasons this country is in such bad shape, and why the last three generations of people in this country have gotten dumber and dumber. We should do IQ tests on everyone and make everyone complete college courses in marriage and raising children, in child development, in how to home school, and people should have to be able to support the children they have. It wasn't until the 1980s, when Sec. 8 came out, when the politicans started pay big, big money in welfare. In my grandparents' generation, no one got anything for free from the government. Today they all live off of their kids, get them declared disabled. Our society is so sick because the sickest and dumbest have the most children.

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      1. Susan

        You are a bold ass bitch to state all that. We want to be compassionate, but the fact is true: It is too easy to get help and sit on your ass being that way for the rest of your life.

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    2. fred the protectionist

      Libertarian say: "If I were to say that you should not hire non-Californians in California, I think many would agree that is an unreasonable infringement of my rights. Why is it that if I want to hire a Mexican, the equation is different?"

      Because Californians are Americans and Mexicans are not. Duh.

      See, Libertarians are internationalist open-border/free-traders, they empower the "corporations" by allowing them to exploit cheap foreign labor. Libertarians are internationalists, they see international borders as non-existent, they view national sovereignty as a quaint concept. Libertarians are just as internationalist in thinking as Communists and other radical lefties who mock nationalism and patriotism, a Jewish way of see'ing the world..

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      1. Boredomstryks

        Fred, you are full of it. Point blank. Enough said.

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        1. fred the protectionist

          Why do you hate fact?

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    3. Boredomstryks

      Cato, I have to admit that I didn't read your reply past the very first paragraph. That was ridiculous. They are here ILLEGALLY. How is it inconsistent to expect them to be deported, or for employers not to hire them? They are from a neighboring country, NOT A LEGAL US CITIZEN/neighbor!

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  24. Angie

    Personally, I would like to see open borders, but I also understand that the way we are running our country right now makes that impossible. I think if we end all entitlement programs, that will dicourage people who only want to come here for a handout. If we legalize drugs on the principle that the government has no authority over our bodies, this would also kill the illegal drug cartel along with inner city gangs. If we start being good neighbors, and respect the sovereignty of other nations and start minding our own business, I sincerely believe that this would eventually bring an end to terrorism. How many terrorist attacks has Switzerland had?

    After we have done these things, and we have begun to see their effects, only then should we implement an "open border" policy. I think as a sovereign nation we have the right to monitor who comes over our boreders, but I also think that we should be allowing more people in. Reforming our state department would also cut back on the number of illegals, they take far too long to give a simple "yes" or "no" to people wanting in our country to escape tyranny and oppression.

    In the mean time, we should do everything with in our power to defend and protect our borders, our nation, and our fellow citizens, as this would probably take decades.

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    1. Ryan

      Angie, don't you see a contradiction between your two statements, "I would like to see open borders" and "If we start being good neighbors, and respect the sovereignty of other nations and start minding our own business"?

      Effectively you are saying, we should respect the sovereignty of other nations (And I agree with that part) but there is no need for other nations to respect our sovereignty (Which is a contradiction to the other statement).

      You say, "we should be allowing more people in".
      Are you aware that last year we took in a RECORD number of LEGAL immigrants, which was, at the same time, exceeded by the number of ILLEGAL immigrants that came in?
      We are taking in far, far, far too much for our current job-growth rate to compensate. That is one reason why our unemployment rate is so high. We simply do not have enough jobs to go around. It's pure madness to increase our immigration numbers at this point. We need to get our people back to work. To do that we must deport the illegals.

      Look at these growth statistics... shocking! ....
      http://www.susps.org/overview/numbers.html

      Further, Mexico's current unemployment rate is hovering around 3% to 4%. Compared to ours at well above 20%! It's pure madness to increase immigration, legal or not!

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      1. Susan

        If I were NOT American, I would want to be, though....And if there was a promise of a better life just across that shallow ass river...I would get wet. Did you know that to be illegal in Spanish is the term "mojado" which means WET?

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    2. Tim

      I think you are making a faulty extrapolation. The terrorists aren't attacking Switzerland because Switzerland:
      1. hasn't set up any puppet dictatorships in the last century;
      2. isn't occupying or invading any countries, or otherwise interfering in their governance;
      3. has modest, well informed, responsible citizens who are able to participate in their government, instead of being afraid of it;
      4. holds terrorists banking interests, so that the terrorists might do business in EU;
      5. has never created or sponsored any terrorist organizations or rogue governments.

      By terrorist I include all of the individuals who have committed criminal acts and their sponsors and propagandist accomplices, whether operating under the shield of business, legitimate government, government spy agencies, fake spiritual organizations, or openly aggressive criminal organizations everywhere.

      I believe if we reorient our political foreign policy to be laissez faire and our international business policy to be profitable with regulation to prevent gaming the system, we could be as secure as the Swiss. Mmm mm mm, that sounds like it would cut 20% of the federal budget. I like that.

      I don't see many northern Europeans emigrating illegally or otherwise to the USA, so I'm just guessing they are generally happy with their situation. The places the illegals come from are afu THROUGH NO FAULT OF THE USA. They need to be fixed... isn't that what the UN is supposed to do, instead of lining the pockets of corrupt "leaders" and pretending nothing is wrong, except where they can grab more public money for themselves?

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  25. Fernando

    Joe W...

    "I know numerous drywall workers that would love to go back to it but cannot afford to because the illegals will work for nothing. In the end you get what you pay for and soon this will look like Mexico."

    Exactly...now who hired the illegals? The companies that hire them are the ones to blame....we need reform...we need to make the employers accountable...if they don't hire illegals there will be less of them coming here...it is that simple.

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  26. Fernando

    Boredmostryks…I did not say that all of them come here looking for work…but most of them do come here to work and send money back home. Please don’t be so ignorant. I see them every day working the fields here in FL or is that a figment of my imagination? I don’t think so…but I tell you what. In the last 10 years corporations have shipped more jobs overseas…good paying jobs by the way…than all of the illegal that are here working combined…what about that?

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  27. Fernando

    Oh really SS….I don’t know where you live but her in Florida most people that work in roofing, landscaping, fruit picking, etc are Mexican or from somewhere in Central America. Is that because the companies like to hire ilegals or because they do not have any of us applying or looking to work those jobs? How about the large corporations that are shipping out jobs overseas? I had a great IT job and I was laid off a year ago because the company decided to open a Help desk in India, not because we were doing a lazy job or because the company was not profitable but because the stockholders and executives want to make more profit. So don’t be so blind…corporation are to blame too. Why don’t we say anything about the millions of jobs that they ship to other countries like China, Vietnam, and Mexico…we worry about Mexican taking our jobs here…but in reality the corporations are the ones that are shipping our jobs or hiring these people cause they are greedy…it is sad.

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    1. Christine

      I'm glad you spoke up about corporations because this is really about the biggest manipulation of humanity....all over the world, not just in America.

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    2. Susan

      Yes. My internet provider in the state of Oregon is linked to the Phillipines.

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  28. Christine

    The real deal is that Bush already established the North American Union, the combination of Canada, Mexico and America. Don't you think the presidents of these countries worked together on this in their own meetings without informing the people? There was no big fanfare about it. It's just part of the elite's plan for the one world government merger, corporation style, as these government are corporations. They are just doing mergers with governments now.

    And the more the people fight each other within the countries, the less they will be able to resist as a group, a force, against the elite. You can see how effective they have been everyday. They leave the borders open allowing crimes, drug and human trafficking, murder, and the media hypes this. The MSM does not talk about the immigration process or improving it to make it much easier for people to follow the law to become legal citizens in America.

    The government does not accept any fault for the economic state America is in or any other country for that matter when financial institutions here in America have spread deceptive financial products around the world to bring down their individual economies. Look at Poland for example. The president was killed mysteriously, photos taken of the plane that crash but only the crew were on board, 4 shots taped after the crash, and a new president that is more closely aligned with the elite's agenda is in line to take office. Poland's economy had been climbing and improving, the only country that had. They avoided the H1N1 mal-investment in mass vaccinations. Not going along with the elite is risky, just like JFK.

    People of the world don't really hate each other. They misdirect their frustration upon others when really, there is an elite group of people who are and have been orchestrating and manipulating people into situations where blame can be misplaced among ourselves to take the focus off of them, the ones who are really guilty of crimes against us all. Take a look at the bigger, broader picture. JFK knew. The actions of this elite group have sped up and increasingly they are causing chaos. We can reduce the chaos by not fighting each other, but focus on stamping out the flame of the elite, making people aware of the real source of our difficulties, and they are not with each other. We are all just people wanting to live decent lives. Government and corporate policies create the awful changes to our environment in which we find ourselves. Govts and Corps policies create a debt-based system of poverty, have's and have nots to benefit the banksters, themselves. The people are trying to do the best they can with what they have.

    JFK SPEECH ON SECRET SOCIETIES AND FREEDOM OF THE PRESS
    JFK was our last great president.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlghYpDx0f4

    “We are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless CONSPIRACY that relies primarily on covet means (to take what belongs to others) for expanding its sphere of influence, on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice. It is a system that has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine, that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific, and political operations. It’s preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no secret is revealed…”

    He asked the media to expose them.

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    1. Christine

      With as much "talk" and I emphasize TALK though MSM coverage that the government is passing laws and going to war to provide security, how politicians on c-span coverage of the house and senate TALK about protecting our freedoms and ensuring domestic security....the government is providing no such thing. It is encouraging and orchestrating the opposite to increase chaos and civil unrest. It is taking freedoms away from all of us which is making us all less and less secure. They are de-stabilizing America and other nations as well, so they can take them over into the one world government under the UN.

      They can only create civil unrest if we fight each other and take our eyes off of those who are really responsible for the mess....AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE. They are committing treasonous acts of crime.

      Rather, unite in our commonality as human beings who have a right to live peacefully and in abundance. We work hard and make our contributions daily, take care of our families and help our neighbors. The government is SUPPOSED to support us in our ability to do so, not get in our way and take from us what we have rightfully earned and created for ourselves. We are achievers.

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      1. Tim

        Yes, they are destabilizing the USA just like they did all the foreign governments "to protect the national defense". The Bushs also brought home the illegal operations they conducted in other countries.

        They pit us against each other to take the heat off them. Liberal or conservative, christian or hindu, see how we take sides against each other, when what we should be doing is collaborating to defeat our common enemies? We all really want the same things in life: freedom, clean food, opportunity, love and security, whereas the banking & NWO criminals seek to "shape" the world as a whole more to their liking, rather than adapt themselves to the world. Thats the definition of insanity.

        Start by rounding up the insane who are in the wrong institutions, that should fix it.

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        1. Christine

          Well that makes at least 2 of us that see the truth!

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        2. fred the protectionist

          lol, the truth.

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  29. detrna

    I am so sick of the illegals screaming racial profiling! They are just mad because the gravy train is coming to an end. Take it away and sure they are going to scream...would'nt you!!
    Feeling sorry for them? well don't! Want to feel sorry for anyone feel sorry for the citizens and legal aliens of this great nation that the illegals are stealing from.
    Also, what makes a illegal think that he or she is better then a alien that went through the proper channels of becoming legal. Is that fair? No of course not and I can bet you that every legal alien is pissed about that too!

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    1. Joan

      I was thinking about this today. When the Tea Party people hold rallies, the media says they are racist and dangerous, a bunch of senior citizens fighting for Medicare are supposedly dangerous. But, notice with all the anti-law rallies this weekend, it's one race of people protesting but no one is saying they are racist, they came here by breaking the law and they're protesting for our country not to enforce the law, and no one says one bad thing about them.

      The pro-amnesty groups taught early on to use the playbook of the black community. They tell the people to scream racism, call everyone white xenophobic, it's to make the people they are sucking money and health care out of look like the bad guys. They are bankrupting hospitals, starting gangs, coming here for work and welfare, it's all illegal, then we get yelled at that we are horrible racists if we don't like it. They don't speak to me, they only speak Spanish. Aren't they racist since they refuse to speak to people who aren't Latin and who don't speak Spanish? And, how come their gangs war and war with African-Americans? It's long time known Hispanics war with African-Americans, so they don't like white people nor black people, so how are they not racists?

      I love it when they call every white person in the country xenophobic, that means totally scared and phobic about any person who isn't white. It's the biggest pile of lies. I went to grammer school in the early 1960s in a big city, my class had Mexicans, blacks, Asians, Jewish people. I grew up with these kids, went through 9 years of school with them, now I'm called a phobic, xenophobe over a bunch of people invading the country illegally. It's all made up to muzzle people, stop us from enforcing our laws.

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    2. Marco

      You are absolutely right , I have the green card and I followeed all the rules necessary to have it , including paying fees , fill papers etc and I live in south Texas so I can see with my own eyes all the mess and the abuses that the illegal are causing ; being a legal alien I do not have any advantage and nobody give me anything assistance or else , if I need something I pay for it but for the illegal there is always a lot of interst in help , support and forgiveness and I am sick and tired of this .

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  30. Boredomstryks

    I disagree with the idea that they only come here to do the work no one else will do.
    1.) There are a lot of people without jobs right now, and I know some of them are desperate enough to take anything.

    2.) They don't all come here for the jobs. They come here for the crime -- drugs, kidnapping, etc.

    My point is that merely punishing employers and taking away all the entitlements (which both need to be done) will not solve the problem.

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    1. Joan

      I see another aspect to it too. We have millions of people on welfare, we pay them to not work. If welfare was gone, all of those jobs would be done by people who no longer get welfare and need work. Our country got out of control by paying people really big money on welfare and then saying, oh, we don't have anyone willing to do low wage jobs. It's as if we think we are so rich as a country that we can pay millions of people to not work and then hire people from a third world country to do the work. Ron Paul would do away with welfare, Sec. 8 housing, all of the free stuff, and people would have to work. And, everyone always has the choice to work their way up, take college classes or go through specialized career training. I bet the number of illegals we have in the U.S. to do those jobs "no one else will do" is just about the same number of people living on welfare in this country.

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      1. Boredomstryks

        Joan and Fred,
        I think I said that we need to end all the entitlements, in a different post, and also that we need to punish those who employ them. HOWEVER, my point was that will not get rid of ALL of them. They don't all come here to stay and get welfare. They don't all come here to work "the jobs no one else will do" (which is a lie). Some of them have no interest in any of that. Some of them merely come here to transport drugs, kidgnap, etc. Taking away benefits that they're not applying for won't change that. Punishing the employers that hire those that aren't coming with drugs or to kidnap won't change that.

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        1. fred the protectionist

          The narrow issue of illegal immigration has proved that most Americans don't even want broader legal immigration. Stop pee'ing against the wind.

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    2. fred the protectionist

      "My point is that merely punishing employers and taking away all the entitlements (which both need to be done) will not solve the problem."

      Yes it would. It would solve a majority of the problem. Don't you like efficiency? I thought Libertarians liked efficiency, I guess I was wrong.

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      1. Joan

        You're right Fred. Go after the employers and cut off the entitlements, because it would be impossible to try and send 20 million illegals home, never mind there would be wars, gang wars, all kinds of violence. One state passes one law, and look at the protests and all the mud slinging, screaming racism over the place. You got this one right, if you end the sources of income, they will leave. But, the Dems love welfare, that's how they get their votes, and both the Dems and the Repubs want the Hispanic vote, so how do you get the politicians to do anything? If the Tea Party people keep electing candidates who will do those things, maybe it will get done.

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        1. fred the protectionist

          The Tea Party is an unorganized rabble.

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          1. Joan

            I agree. They are old people fighting to get 85 trillion in Medicare and SS. They want the two biggest entitlement programs, by protesting against socialism, not educated, over religious blubering idiots who abandoned Ron Paul for Palin to get rich off of them selling them her books and paying her to speak. Their day is coming. The politicians are looking at gutting Medicare, they just did, and at gutting SS, so they won't be able to say no socialism, but we refuse to give up our free stuff. There day of reality is coming. They're hypocrites fighting for entitlements and their only weapon is Glenn Beck who is uneduated and hyper-religous and kind of nuts with his conspiracy theories. They don;t get educated about the corporations and what Wall Street did to us, their only education is from Glenn Beck, so they protest against socialism to keep their socialism that they are addicted to. Then, they say, oh, we paid for it. Yeah, right, one percent into Medicare, maybe 10K in their lifetime, then get one million in health care over 25-35 years for themselves and their spouse, all for 10 grand. They pay 30-50K into SS, and want 3,000 a month payments, 1,500 for themself and 1,500 a month for their spouse who never paid into it. They get 600-700K out of it for paying 30K into it. That's why it would cost taxpayers 85 trillion (with a T) to hand them their welfare, while many of them are wealthy, and then they protest against socialism.

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          2. SS

            Unorganized rabble, like the Minutemen.

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        2. Germanicus Fortunov

          Joan: I regret to inform you that I've felt awful since we communicated.
          It's as if I took your pain that you wouldn't feel.
          It was a mistake to argue that you are not responsible for your feelings.
          I appreciate your truly horrific past but you are the only person who can do anything about that.
          Like all of us you choose to behave in the way you do because you get something out of it.
          I take full responsibility for having started this by replying to you.
          I did not know what I was getting myself into.
          It is bad form for me to open myself up to someone before I determine whether they will take responsibility for themselves.
          I know that now and will know better in the future.
          I do believe your story and in the power of your mind but I cannot be responsible for anyone else's feelings.
          At best I can offer tools to those who request them.
          You did not request them from me so that is another mistake I made.
          I give you back your feelings as they are not good for me nor is it good for you.
          I can do nothing with your feelings because I cannot improve your life, only you can do that.
          Also by taking your feelings I offer only temporary relief for you beut because you have not healed your pain your behavior will continue and result in the same pain again.
          That way we are both in pain.
          It is your story, your pain, your life and your responsibility\opportunity.
          And the same goes for me.
          Only I can improve my life.
          Expecting others to rescue me from my pain is ignorant of reality and I apologize for bringing my ignorance into your life.
          I believe this writing is a step in the right direction of correcting my mistakes on this matter.
          Sincerely,
          Germanicus

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      2. Greg

        Does Fred even know what a Libertarian stands for? If he wants to be educated and debate nothing but libertarians instead of some poster who obviously isn't one (no Libertarian support government welfare, for many good moral reasons I might add), go to Mises.org and type in your little hit and run attacks there or engage in a debate. I promise you'll get your ass handed to you in every aspect. Libertarians are well reasoned and more highly principled than any other political stripe you'll find. Think differently? Then take up my challenge. You obviously need a little brushing up on what a Libertarian is and is not.

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        1. fred the protectionist

          I know exactly what Libertarians are. They are anarchists, neo-confederates, slavers, globalists, jews and drug abusers.

          "Dylan Bennet Klebold was born in Lakewood, Colorado to Thomas Klebold and Susan Yassenoff. His parents attended a Lutheran church with their children, and Dylan and his older brother Byron attended confirmation classes in accordance with Lutheran tradition.[2] At home, the family also observed some rituals in keeping with Susan Klebold's Jewish heritage." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold

          Fascinating.

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  31. Lori

    How is asking someone to prove citizenship any different than checking their ID when you buy alcohol??? I am 52 y/o and I get checked almost everytime and it sure isn't because I look 21 years old.

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    1. fred the protectionist

      "How is asking someone to prove citizenship any different than checking their ID when you buy alcohol??? I am 52 y/o and I get checked almost everytime and it sure isn’t because I look 21 years old."

      Because it's racist.

      White man's burden. White man's burden. Words of wisdom Roy.

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  32. Fed-Up

    We have a prevention tool that may be better than a wall. It is something that has been in existance for almost 375 years. It protected citizens from Indian attacks, foreign invaders, and helped to win the Revolutionary War. I am talking about the Army National Guard. Just look at the name National=USA and Guard=stay in position and do not let anyone pass. I feel that we do need soldiers, just not in Iraq and Yemen and Japan and Korea and... Folks, irreguardless of how serious of an issue this may be to you, I want to inform you that we have a very large influx of Mexicans (not Americans meaning not citizens here) invading our country. Now you can say, "Oh, dear, they are just wanting to work and not harm anyone. They are not terrorists." Well, folks, the truth of the matter is they ARE hurting our country in many ways. First, have you noticed how many people you come across that only speak Mexican and not American and then sometimes we have to change the school curriculum to accomodate these people taking time away from what used to be 1 group that now has to share time with another group because they don't want to speak American. Almost anywhere, Georgia, Texas, Missourri, everywhere it don't matter. This is just not fair to the students. They will recieve much less instruction time but still expected to produce the same results.
    The 2nd thing is, taxes. How can they, they aren't supposed to be here. Getting sick or hurt so severe that a trip to the hospital must be made. After getting there, they must treat them. But then there is no insurance because no SS card. So it is either out of the federal piggy bank or out of my pocket. I will tell you that there are not too many people in this world who would turn their profit back in/pay out of pocket if they could get it for free. That costs money and when a lot of people do it, then certain programs that are set up for the citizens get robbed because the money has to come from somewhere.
    The 3rd thing is, deportation. If they should happen to get caught, they must go back to Mexico. When they get sent back to Mexico, they convieniantly loose their wallet and all their money so they aren't able to pay for the tickets back. So, now we are footing the bill once again to send them back, only to return.
    Why we don't utilize our military for something that is constitutional, matter of National Security, and most of all is we are home and not involved in a conflict. There are many different ways that the soldiers could be "deployed", but a wall alone is not going to keep them out forever. Let's explore EVERY option instead of 1 or 2 that only helps a company. Let's do it right if we are going to do it.

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    1. Fernando

      Most of the illegals come here to do the work that a lot of us would never do. If there was no one hiring illegals then there would not be the demand or incentive for them to come here. Why don't we punish the companies that hire these people? Make them accountable and set heavy fines or even close them up if they are repeat offenders. I remember when our new courthouse was being built the news broke that the contractor was hiring a large number of construction workers that were here illegally and they just paid a fine, the workers were deported and that was that. Deportation should not be the only answer because they just come back, it is a revolving door and adding more people at the borders will help, but it would not stop them from coming back, our border with Mexico is approximately 2,000 miles in length and it is the most frequently crossed international border in the world with about 250 million people crossings every year. That will take a lot of man power not to mention the logistics and the cost to pay for a permanent force around it. We also need tougher laws for those that hire illegals. No work + no social services + more border security = less illegal immigrants.

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      1. SS

        The 'work that we wouldn't do' argument is complete bullshit.
        There is no such thing as a legal job that I would not do to feed my family.

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      2. Tim

        Fernando you mean the work you would never do, you soft handed girlyman. This nation got along fine for 200 years without illegals and the work was a lot harder. My family has done that work here for 170 years. You're just skimming the cream.

        You're so right, deportation is not enough. I like the idea of mandatory minimum sentences with hard labor. We have a lot of infrastructure thats been neglected due to the costs of PCing illegals and stupid college kids advancing beyong their pay grade by backroom deals, not merit. After we've trained them in the joint I suggest we find a penal colony an ocean away to park the border jumpers. How about Khazakstan? If we have to support an empire, why not use it.

        Now run along and try selling that weak-ass rationalization to someone gullible.

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  33. Henry

    I think the strategy they need to fight illegal immigration is one that considers their tactics. The truth is on OUR side. We do NOT need to have any law that can be interpreted as racial profiling. I knew the outcome before it even happened. It emboldens their movement cause they see and portray themselves as victims,
    which in a sense they are. The easier way to go about it in my opinion is to cut off tax funds going to them except education and the er. Set up a system much like everify and go after the criminal element. They won't sound like victims protesting for welfare or arresting and deporting the criminal element.

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  34. Theresa Romano

    Isn't a valid driver's license proof of citizenship. When the driver of a stopped vehicle shows his license isn't that enough?

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    1. fred the protectionist

      White man's burden.

      We got to do our duty, go above and beyond duty, to civilize the other savage races.

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    2. SS

      No, a license is not proof of citizenship.
      And it is not just about drivers.

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  35. Joe Winpisinger

    Phil Mc Cann stated:

    "The employers win because the taxpayer is subsidizing their labor costs."

    You hit the nail on the head. Clear away all the muck and mire and when the water clears it is the top 1% that have taken over this country behind all our problems. The problem is that they have infiltrated both parties, destroyed the public schools, and control most of the media. Most people never wake up to the fact that we are returning to the feudal system.

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    1. Go Joe

      Succinctly said, sweet

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