Illegal Immigration




Illegal immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for our economic crisis. But with free markets and private property, the need for immigrant labor becomes obvious. Most immigrants, regardless of the color of their skin, are open to the ideals of liberty: private property, free markets, sound money, right to life, low taxes, less war, protection of civil liberties, and a foreign policy designed for peace.

Ron Paul proposed the following action steps for dealing with illegal immigration:

  1. Abolish the welfare state. The incentive to take a job at whatever wage available must prevail.
  2. Establish a generous visitor work program. Once we solve the economic crisis by introducing sound money, demand for domestic and immigrant labor will rise.
  3. Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards. Allow states and landowners to enforce the law and provide security assistance.
  4. Abolish birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents’ home countries.]
  5. End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.



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3,500 Comments:

  1. Well said. What good is taking the fight overseas when we're losing it at home?

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  2. Quit trying to change an immigration system before its laws are enforced! Enforce the law, afterward analyze its problems and then you can discuss whether or not it needs to be changed. Otherwise, you're putting the cart, before the horse.

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  3. @john lockes ghost This is a point i do not agree with Ron Paul on. He's entitled to say what he thinks is right though. I don't believe in any of the 'isms'. They were all based on the fact we have unlimited resources. We don't. All i know is if people are divided; whether it be by borders, ethnicity, religion, class, etc. Not only is there bitterness between the divisions, they are more easily manipulated. Its fine to think of yourself as different; just not better. What gives any human being the right to tell any other human being whether he can cross an imaginary line or not.

    I'm English by the way, I've just become interested in Ron Paul because he's doing surprisingly well in the polls and i think his views on the Fed, the military and Iran are spot on.

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  4. @seejaymouser, by the way, I currently have 2 businesses, and 4 properties, and 23 employees. 11 whites, 1 black, 1 Indian, 1 Russian Jew, and 9 Hispanics. 5 years ago I had to layoff 3 of my best workers: two Spanish guys, and one Russian girl because they were not legal. I pay over $280k a year in all taxes, and yet in the last two years we had to giveup health issurance for my family to keep the mortgage paid. This country is full of misinformed individuals like you who does not see the big picture. Take all our soldiers home and place them by the borders, take away the aid to countries like Afghanistan and Isreal and give free healthcare to all taxpayers. Any country that wants our help: what do they have to offer in return? In this time of Global economy, screw the moral debates and look for only $. Even if you feel that some immigrants might be sending they money home, that means their family back home now have money for us to build a damn Walmart there. Next 5 years, a Chevy Dealership. Money circulates among those who can't afford to hoard it. Just like the Chinese who are paying extra for American made baby food and products and Kept GM from Bankruptcy( Buick is the best selling car in China.) That's why the super rich want you to look at all the stupid controversial non-issues to divert your attention from their non payment of taxes, corporate mergers and downsizing, and bloodmoney from war profits.

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    • @emperorjhan

      You sound like so many others that have come and gone here. This country is functioning the way it has forever, and allowing illegals to run rampant across our borders has little to do with anything aside from the fact that we have 12 million undocumented people here who are driving with no ID, and no insurance, walking away from health care bills because they are not required to provide ID so they can be anybody they want to be when the paperwork is filled out. They are working for peanuts, and accepting social aids. How can an American who has no choice but to pay auto insurance etc, possibly compete with someone who is living ten families to a household, and accepting AFDC, WIC and food stamps. And since when are plumbing, A/C work, landscaping, painting, and handy man services, JOBS THAT AMERICANS WON'T DO?

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    • @emperorjhan

      And where are you from?

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      • Third generation Chinese American. Jersey Born and Raised, NRA memeber, Was Republican until Clinton Sex Trials, and Drives a 81 Chevy C10.

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    • @emperorjhan

      Good comments. What do they offer in return? In many cases it is drugs, toxic toys and contaminated foods, clothes that fall apart in the washer. Why the hell do we want this crap? We could be self-supporting and export our excess if we could get away from the oil economy.We have allowed ourselves to be brainwashed by Walmart et al on the basis of "cheaper", and by the politicos who say we are waging a war on drugs. What a crock! Absolute BS. We let them sell their drugs here while we are supplying them with the arsenal to kill us. Cartels have armored vehicles along the border while we have kids with binoculars and body armor. Some war!

      I am so sorry that you have suffered these very negative effects. We need to follow the money. Who among our elected and appointed officials are profiting at the expense of America's present and future? Or,should I say, who is not? Dump the rhinos and get rid of the PACs that fund them.

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  5. @seejaymouser, have you actually read my first posting, do you actually believe that we can solve this issue by spending two trillion dollars on deporting and chasing down every illegal immigrant in this country? When we can make more than that by legalizing them and make them pay $1000 fine and start paying taxes. They don't have to worry about deportation, we get our much needed money, and McDonalds can still sell you $3 BigMacs instead od $12 for the same burger.

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    • @emperorjhan The flaw in your plan is that illegals aren't going to pay the taxes. They aren't paying them now and they won't pay them to become legal citizens since they currently enjoy more rights than legal citizens do now. What makes anyone really believe that they'll just start paying taxes? They'll just continue to live the way they're living right now, driving illegally, shopping at flea markets, working under the table. The law doesn't scare them now so how you going to "impress" upon them the need to start paying taxes? Many aren't interested in staying and send the money they make home. Why should they start paying?

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      • @WalMan@emperorjhan

        Walman, read about the Bracero program, whichfor many years successfully brought in seasonal and temporary workers who paid taxes, contributed to our economy and theirs, made us many friends in Latin America and Africa. It worked. It was stopped for bullshit reasons.

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    • @emperorjhan

      I think you're exaggerating the potential inflation. In my time those McDonald's jobs were filled by kids who were taking their first jobs, a trend you still see in small towns.

      And just so you know, my biggest issue with the overwhelming majority of illegals is their refusal to learn English. I deal with this on a day to day basis in the construction industry. And the blatant Mexican flag waving. And the repeated references to WE USED TO OWN PARTS OF AMERICA. Read your history book, the part that used to be Mexico was fought for and won AND paid for. My biggest issue is the "entitlement" stance that most illegals seem to have adopted. They want what we got? Guess what, nobody gave it to us. We've been paying all our lives for the privilege of being American. Why should it be any easier for them?

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      • the learning of english part I 100% agree with you. If someone wants to be a citizen, they have to pass the exam in ENGLISH. I don't have any problem with anyone being bi-lingual but english has to be the official language. I don't agree with the tax paying part, because if they are faced with becoming legal and pay taxes or deportation, they will pay. I know of illegals who buys a fake social security card and pay taxes on a dead man's ss number just so that they can work. The registering process will also weed out any criminals from just your everyday workers.

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    • @emperorjhan A $1000 fine?! Are you kidding me. It costs over $200,000 to raise a child in this country.Consider what an illegal with 8 kids would cost the taxpayer. Illegal immigration is costing the USA $113 Billion per year -- and that figure will mushroom as this demographic ages.

      Again, Illegals are huge net tax recipients. Which means they consume far more tax dollars than they pay in.

      Tell you what, emperorjhan. I'll pay you $1 for every $100 you give me. Sound like a good deal? That is how ridiculous your post is.

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  6. I think we all as American citizens need to put INS on speed dial on our cell phones and if we even suspect that the waiter at McDonald's who doesn't speak English, or the lawn guy, or the maid, is here illegally, we need to hit that button and report it. The only way this is going to get fixed is if we do it. That much ought to be clear by now.

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    • @seejaymouser The INS will never show up.

      I shouldn't be the first one to tell you this but it's the government that is aiding and abetting these invaders. They get a pass. It's the state registries that GIVE them the drivers licenses. It's the state governments that give them the healthcare cards and it will be the Feds under Obamacare. The state governments give them the EBT cards. They ask for it and our government provides it regardless of their ability to pay and they know it. I know it for a fact and have seen it with my own eyes. Look at Obama's illegal uncle. He had a valid MA issued drivers license. He could have voted.

      It's not just the illegals we are trying to overcome, it's our government too.

      You can call for the government's help but I don't have much faith they will answer.

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      • @WalMan

        That's my point. If enough of us start calling often enough, eventually someone will notice that we have noticed. As far as I know it's still illegal to be in this country without documentation.

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        • @seejaymouser@WalMan You sir, are an optimist. We wouldn't be in the trouble we're in if the Feds did the job they have taken an oath to do. But here we are. Lord knows what it will take for them to do it now. Your plan is as good as any I've heard.

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      • @WalMan@seejaymouser

        This is unfortunately true, but it does not work anymore in keeping you from being deported. Now you need a birth certificate or a US passport. State IDs are useless, and should be because of some places like Nevada, where they used to bring in busloads of Chinese illegals to MVD and issue them all state photo IDs. It was a scandal back in the early 90s. Don't know if they still do it or not. Ask Gov. Perry about TX driver's licenses!

        Govt does not answer... literally. When we call BP about UDIs crossing our land, do they respond? Hell no. They are too busy taking a nap down at the corner 2 miles away. By the time we go shake them awake, the coyotes have picked up the illegals and they are gone. I keep asking myself what we are paying these little boys to do. Guarding our borders, isn't it? Pitiful!

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    • @seejaymouser There is this thing called E-Verify which ought to be used by all employers to verify the citizenship of current and future employees. Its use should be mandatory and employers that fail to use it and are found to employ illegal labor ought to be fined for the first occurrence, or, for repeat offenders, have their assets confiscated and put out of business.

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      • @john lockes ghost@seejaymouser

        We found it not to be sufficiently accurate at the health center where I worked. Until it is completely tied to a national photo ID system it will not be. But, I don't want to have to carry a national photo ID, do you? BIg Brother is a big threat.

        Remember that human smuggling is now dominated by drug cartels who have all the money, technology, weapons and hacking skills needed to screw the system in practically every way, including E-verify. Kill the cartels by legalizing, licensing and taxing drugs, and you will kill a lot of our national problems, including much illegal immigration. We should have learned from Prohibition that prohibiting does not stop consumption, it just causes more crime. Legislation cannot change the incidence of addictive personalities.

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        • I'd have no trouble carrying a national ID, in fact, if all the states had the strict rules that the state in which I reside has, then we would not need a national ID. To get a drivers license where I live you must have a certified birth certificate or United States passport, a social security card, and a utility bill receipt with your address. @micka @john lockes ghost @seejaymouser

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        • @john lockes ghost@seejaymouser

          I like this except for the utility bill. I have no billed utilities except a cell phone since I provide my own water, sewer, garbage hauling and power, as do many rural residents of the US. But each state has its own requirements...states rights, you know.

          . National ID would cause an huge increase in Federal employment, wouldn't it?. More opportunity for a Big Brother situation? Too much liike eastern European system for me, I guess.

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        • @micka@john lockes ghost@seejaymouser I remember the good old days when my mom had a large whole dug in the rear of our property and all paper and burnable goods would be dealt with there. She was organic so most of our land was garden and all left over food would be blended and put in gullies a ways away from the garden. My brother would go fishing and plant his fish heads. Really great fertilizer. There was so little left for the trash man. She would recycle just about everything. Used plastic baggies would be washed and reused as also plastic containers. Even our furniture was recycled. my mom had the wonderful ability to take an old chair and turn it into a velvet throne. She grew up in an orphanage so she picked up allot of talents there. She could sew anything, cook anything, build anything or grow anything. The laws where I am prevent allot of what I desire to do. Sometimes because I work so many hours now to survive, I just dont have time. But those were wonderful memories, a time when polution didnt touch our lives. A time when you could drink out of the spring fed brooks.

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        • @CarolFryer@john lockes ghost@seejaymouser

          I'm sorry you live where you are limited. I know there are reasons for the laws in crowded areas especially.No crowding out here, and we recycle pretty much everything, too.My house is built almost entirely of recycled materials. Mainly farmers and ranchers here, who don't take kindly to being told what they can do with their property, although many are going organic and complying with all that paperwork voluntarily.The problems we have are different. I guess no place is ideal.

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        • @micka, Big Brother already knows who you are. They are in your cell phone, your computer , the Internet, SS# and every record that has been made since you were born. The ideal of anonymity is no longer an issue...it was lost when modern conveniences like data bases...the Internet, etc were invented and developed to the point that they are today. Satellites can zero in on you and read every square inch of your body or your vehicle's license plate. Get over it. E-verify has proven to be 99.97 % accurate. I think that this is the only issue that I can disagree with Dr. Paul on. The return to smaller Govt will go a long way to return us to less Govt intrusion. This is the only cohesive way to be able to quickly and easily solve this issue of stopping the influx of illegals. It will do it with the least amount of cost to both the taxpayers and the Govt. Without jobs or access to all the FREE Govt programs they WILL go home through attrition. This is being proven by the States that have implemented it. We can further this process by taking away Chain Migration, Anchor Babies, and hope of Amnesty. Those who represent us in Congress are trying to do their part by introducing Bills to block Obama's attempts to keep his base of voters. BTW 55 Democrats stood with the Republicans who voted to pass verification legislation. ALL hope is not lost...there are still Democrats who vote with a conscience. The question has been raised about how to have "proof" of Citizenship...the answer is plain...put it on our Driver's Licenses or State ID's. We carry that with us at all times in our wallets or purse. In the form that we fill out to attain these identifications, there is a question that asks if we are a US citizen. It's just a box that is checked off. If that box needed verification with an actual birth certificate and other pieces of ID such as a SS#, etc...accompanied by the DMV using E-verify, this would solve 99% of the problem. We can never expect 100% but, this would go a long way to solve this issue and quickly. Months, not years. Imagine if the only illegals we had to deal with were those already in prison. The only problem would be in getting their Govts to accept them back.

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        • @mjrAK47

          Unless E-verify has been dramatically improved, the problem we found was that without either fingerprints or photos of everyone, you can't always tell if the presented documents are fake. There are very good hackers in the illegal ID system, and it is surprisingly inexpensive to get someone's ID. They will even takeover ID of living workers and pay into their SS, just to be able to work here. We found them out by accident a few times, and there are undoubtedly many we were never able to catch. Benefit to the real worker, I guess, to have extra $$ in their SS if it does not get caught..

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        • @mjrAK47

          In some ways, I agree with you, but it does not mean that I accept the bad just because it is already here.For example, it bothers me that people's medical records are computerized now and subject to hacking. What Obamacare did right was to prevent insurance companies from dumping ill patients, refusing to accept people with certain diagnoses and disallowing certain tests. Lots of folks died unnecessarily due to these practices, and Big Brother/Mega Insurance is a real threat in that respect when Obamacare gets repealed, and the insurance companies monitors your symptoms and your doctors speculations in your chart. Medical procedure is to propose possible diagnises and then work down to the most likely, but your insurance may dumo you because some doc proposes that you might have disease X, even before there is any proof. I won't get over that. It keeps me from saving lives.

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  7. Again, this is no one's ancestrial land. we are a Nation built through genocide and greed, we will never win any moral argument. Only MONEY!! AND DO NOT APPOLOGIZE for it !!! Everyone that wants to come in - PAY!!! want to STAY, PAY!!! $500 to enter, $25,000 for greencard; and $50,000 for Citizenship. When you don't pay, get out! If you have nothing to offer, GET OUT!!! I do however believe in birthright, because if not, I would love to deport every NONE TAX PAYER in the whole country - REGARDLESS of your color, religion, or how many generations have you been here.

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    • @emperorjhan Genocide and greed? Just listen to yourself for a minute. It was not genocide and greed that put this country together. You may be reading those "other" history books but the country I live in was born out of hard work and an urge to be free. The history of the world can be looked at as genocide if you want to be a total cynic about it.

      My family, like many families came here in the 1880s. We were actually invited by the architects of the Industrial Revolution and came here with the promise of a job, not a handout. I never shot an Indian, never owned a slave (although my people were once slaves of the Romans) and never jumped a claim and I don't think I should be made to feel guilty or have to pay for any of that.

      But everybody should pay SOMETHING. It is widely reported that roughly 45% of the people in this country pay no taxes. It is THEY that should pony up something.

      It is good that you have passion for the cause and the energy to do something about it. but now is not the time to get hysterical or shrill. Just go out and campaign for your candidate and get people to get out and vote. There is still more of us than there are of them. Too many remain apathetic.

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    • I guess you are well named, emperor indeed. You need to learn the meaning of being a citizen of the United States. Did you buy your citizenship, that is, if you are one, or did you kill somebody and adopt theirs. @emperorjhan

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    • @emperorjhan As regards to your statement about ancestral land, what is ancestral land? How many generations of a family must live within a nation's boundaries before they can consider it their ancestral land?

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      • 5000 years is where I draw the line.

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        • One can trace the migration of their ancestors via providing your DNA to National Geographic. However, I seriously doubt that anybody has ancestors that remained glued to a specific country for that great a time span. @emperorjhan

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  8. Common sense. If someone illegally entered your home, would you give them amnesty, grant him/her rights to reside if gives birth in your home, add him to your health insurance policy? if you answered yes to any of the above, you're lying or something is wrong.

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  9. @micka This policy is precisely to seperate all the good from the few bad. Those immigrants who work so hard to establish themselves as American should not be treated as terrorist suspects. Under this policy they would only have to pay the double entrance fee for their new tax id, and all payroll and income taxes paid by them will automatically roll over to their acct toward the $25k or 50K goal to their citizenship.

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  10. I have agreed with Ron Paul on every issue except this one. I believe that the only fair way to deal with immigration is to Tax. Every migrant worker who enters will have to surrender their visas and pay a $500 deposit, refundable only if they return on or before their legal stay they will be issued a tax id and pay all tax except social security and unemployment since they are not entiled to such benefits. Immigrants( DON'T CARE WHERE YOU ARE FROM!) however, will need to pay the $500 per person, or $1000 per family entrance fee; pay full taxes due on all income; after they have paid $25,000 in taxes-they get their green cards; after $50,000 in net taxes paid then eligible to become citizens and recieve full benifits. Anyone already here needs to register in their local town hall right away, and pay double entrance fee as penalty. With this simple policy in place we will take away all the profits from smugglers and coyotes and automatically weed out all the criminals from the workers. Lets be honest, if straberries cost $9 a pint and chicken cost $11 per pound because we have no more cheap immigrant workers who will suffer more?

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    • @emperorjhan

      I like your ideas. I would, however, like to see the hundreds of thousands of immigrants who did pay into SS for so many years, and then were suddenly made illegal when we changed our policies, receive some kind of benefit for what they put into the system while working here legally. We can hardly be respected as upholding civil rights in other countries when we deny them in our own.

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      • @micka@emperorjhan In Mexico I dont think they will just let you walk across the border and get a job. You will wind up in jail or deported if your fortunate. Im tired of our nation being expected to have UN standards simply because they want to bring us down. Even New Jeruselem has gates. Try walking in if your not covered in Jesus blood.

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        • Hi Carol, I think you are letting too much personal ideals getting in the way of praticality. America is different from any other country in the world in that we are an Immigrant nation, even the natives were not native to this land. We are built through greed, and bloodshed in pursuit of wealth and prosperity for ourselves and our future generations. Every race, color, and ethnicity of people that first landed here have ate shit to survive, some more than others. So how do we draw the line? the only way is through money. We have absolutely no ground for preaching right or wrong, we can only defend our acomplishments and wealth. It wasn't that long ago that half of our country still belong to Mexico. I have friends who have graduated college and took jobs overseas. One work for a private school in China as an English teacher, and another in Brazil as engineer for construction equipment. I also knew a landscaper who got married in the US, have 3 kids, owned his own company and properties and paid over $230,000 a year in payroll, income and property taxes. He was deported 3 years ago because his visa expired 10 years ago and his greencard application got jammed after 9/11. His wife, an American, is left here to raise 3 kids and is now on welfare because she had to sell everything to survive the last three years. Who wins?

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        • @emperorjhan

          He was running a business with employees and making good money and he didn't bother to renew his visa or apply for citizenship? Sounds to me like he let his family down. Never mind who wins ... who is at fault?

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        • He did apply, but 9/11 happened. Just because you were lucky enough to be born here does not mean you have more to contribute to this country or love it more. And once again, if they pay to enter and work here and we give then a tax id to work then they won't be illegals and they would be tax payers. Only NON Tax Paying people should be deported.

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        • Something tells me that visa renewal is a lengthy process and is not something that happens overnight and probably should be started way early. Why didn't he apply for naturalization if he was running a business and had a family here? He didn't have to wait for his visa to expire to start that process.

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        • @CarolFryer@emperorjhan

          Where do you get these ideas? Of course you can get a job in Mexico. Ever heard of a maquiladora? Many US citizens go across every day to assemble electronics, make Arrow shirts, process produce, haul cement and steel, teach school, and any number of other jobs.The factories set up close to the border for this very reason...the convenience of workers from BOTH sides of the border. A dentist friend practices here every day, then goes across to his fast food cafe in Mexico for the evenings and weekends. Another friend owns a Mexican ad agency, but lives here. My sister worked in Mexico for a recording studio. None are Mexicans, just good old US entrepreneurs.

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        • @micka@emperorjhan So your telling me I can just walk into Mexico and get a job? Not going for it. Sorry.

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        • You can Absolutely do that. Mexican companies and American Owned companies in Mexico have a lot of American Workers, granted that it is usually the brainiacs and managers and not general laborers, they got plenty of that.

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        • @emperorjhan I dont go for the fact that they or you or I can just walk across their border without permission. Never heard that before. And I just dont believe that. Ive been told Mexico has very strict immigration laws, but lots of corruption. But then so do we and our laws just arent enforced as well.

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        • @emperorjhan personal? You mean screw the law for your agendas.....no , I dont think so.

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        • @CarolFryer@emperorjhan

          I did''t say without permission.The difference is, we can get permission from them, but they can't get permission from us! So, we go over and get jobs, and they either stand and wait and starve, or come illegally. Emperorjhan, you are right to some extent, but less and less so. As the Mexican economic issues hit their middle class, more of their educated workers are taking advantage of maquiladora positions, contributing to some of our regional unemployment. The worm turns..

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        • You have an axe to grind being an employer of illegal immigrants. We may be a nation that has a history of welcoming immigrants from other nations (and that is good), but to receive the welcoming, you have to respect our invitation and arrive legally and once here, obey and respect our law, otherwise, like your landscaping friend, out you go. If you don't respect our laws, you self deport. @emperorjhan

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        • just because you were lucky enough to be born here don't mean shit especially if we agree to take away birthright citizenship. I am a capitalist to the core meaning that I believe if you don't have anything to contribute to the sucess of this nation you need to get out. That guy probably paid more taxes, and contributed more tax revenue to this country in his last ten years than your lazy self will ever do.

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        • @CarolFryer@emperorjhan

          So, Carol, my mechanic told me yesterday that virtually every seat belt used in American autos is manufactured in Agua Prieta, Sonora, Mexico. the city across the border from Douglas, AZ, by a combo of US and Mexican laborers. Look at the number of retirees from the northern climes of US who come down to border states every year so that they can get dental care, pharmaceuticals, etc in Mexican cities...Nogales, Naco, Agua Prieta, San Luis...all along the AZ border. All they have to do is tell the Mexican border guards where they are going. You can either walk or drive across as long as you have no weapons, which are a prime smuggling issue. Look for the website of Dr Tostado. He advertises in US because probably half of his patients are US. Great guy. Raises Quarter Horses on the side. You will see directions of how to walk or drive to his office from the border crossing.

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        • @seejaymouser

          A neighbor had applied for naturalization, but when her son was critically injured in a hit-and-run, her insurance only covered the first $100,000, so the hospital, as a matter of routine, applied for Medicaid to help with his bills. OOOps! You cannot apply for assistance while you are on the list for naturalization, or could not at that time anyway. So, she had to start the process all over again, and then ended up being deported anyway because she did not know that she would still have to re-apply for her visa also. Caused a big fuss locally because her store employed quite a few people, and we don't have an abundance of jobs around here except in the fields or the mines, and not everyone can do that hard work. I don't know for sure, but I suppose the hospital never got paid since the Govt put her out of business. I hope her little boy ended up getting the care he needed in their home country.

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        • @micka@emperorjhan i guess this is NAFT at its best huh. Sorry. Ive never ever heard what you are saying before. By telling the border guards and going through paper work and having passports, this stuff is legal, not illegal. If you go through proper chanels its legal. But if you sneak in and pop out a baby....no sorry, its not. Everything right now from our constitution to our laws are being twisted by politically correct UN agendas and the so called right winged conservatives are compromising and going along with it. Its obvious what those at the top in Washington want whether we do or not. All the more advantageous for them to just do it. They replace us with people who they THINK will just comply with them. They will find out though they wont. Once they start doing the same garbage to them, they will explode and demand more . I suspect they will be a little more outspoken then we the people have been. All Ive been hearing is really stupid people like Glenn Beck saying things need to be done in order and peacefully.....yeah.....hows that working out.....NOT!!!

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        • @micka@emperorjhan And on top of that I get so tired of them using these people as scape goats and poster children to take our rights away and pocket our money.

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        • Tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk, you have no way of knowing anything about me or any contributions I may have made to society. Getting a little testy aren't we. LOL! @emperorjhan

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      • @micka@emperorjhan

        The benefit is the untold numbers of dollars that went to Mexico and the privilege of living in this country and all that that entails. And stop calling illegals "immigrants." If they were immigrants NOBODY could deport them.

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        • @seejaymouser@emperorjhan

          The official US Government term for illegals: Undocumented Immigrant, commonly called UDIs. Illegal immigrants are deported everyday by the thousands, as are a small number of legal residents who do not have proper documentation. A driver's license is not enough, incidentally. You must produce a birth certificate or a US passport. This is how US citizens get caught up in the mess. Most of us do not routinely carry such documents. After all, this is the US and we don't have to, right? Wrong. If you "look Mexican", you, too, could be arrested. 82 US citizens incarcerated in AZ while waiting for someone to get a certified birth certificate copy.Look it up and read their stories. Wrong is wrong, whether you are in the US or elsewhere..

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        • @seejaymouser@emperorjhan

          You know what went to Mexico? Millions of tons of waste corn, which killed the local production in Mexico as farmers there could not compete with what, for years, we dumped on their markets. A minority were able to plant other crops, but most did not have the money or the soils, or the equipment to change production.So,we put them out of business, and then don't let them come get jobs. HMMM. What kind of justice is that? Man's inhumanity to man. Not a great legacy for the Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave.

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        • @micka@seejaymouser@emperorjhan This is something they are also trying to shove down our throats when it comes to voting. Poor people just can afford a photo ID. Ive been dirt poor and I could get one, so how is it that people in cities now all of a sudden cant get one. And why one earth would not any sane person, knowing they are gonna need that document, not invest in a simple birth certificate? More BS from the government. Sorry. I dont buy it.

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        • @CarolFryer@seejaymouser@emperorjhan

          You are right in general, but where I live they have closed most of the MVD offices, so you now have to go to the county seat to get the ID card, which is a 110 mile trip, and there is no public transportation here. So, you would have to be well enough to make the multi-hour trip and have a friend who had the time, or can take enough time off, to take you. Certainly possible, but not necessarily an easy thing to do, and will certainly discourage many elderly non-drivers and stay-at-home house wives in our area.

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        • You, Carol, have been so brain-washed into thinking that immigration or illegal immigration is the cause of America's downfall that you can see the truth. We are in a recession because Bush and Cheney and all his Military Industrial Companies made money in selling weapons so they send our sons and daughters to die on two foreign soil to the tune of $14billion dollars a day; Osama Bin Laden was on a hill in Afghanistan when 9/11 happened and we could have wipe that mountain off the face of the earth for about $10 billion; Henry Paulson, the treasurer bailed out his buddies on wall street with our money when the banks only wanted to sell us all the default mortgage notes for 20 cents on the dollars. He gave them all the money they needed to foreclose and ask us to pay for their loss. We also have all these CEOs being paid $30-$40 billion dollars a year while laying off thousands of workers and blaming it on consumers and immigrants.

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        • sorry, it is can't see the truth.

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        • Dont tell me where exactly you live Micka, just what state. I will research your statements. @micka @seejaymouser @emperorjhan

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        • @emperorjhan Sorry, Jesus already washed my brain and your polical mumbo jumbo wont move me. I thought you were a liberal because your ideas. Not as though liberal is bad , but to open borders ideas I dont go for. The forcing everyone to buy health care, I dont go for. Liberal agendas....I dont go for. On the other hand I think Bush and Cheney are war machine crooks. But then all of Washington just fight over whos friends are gonna get rich.

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        • You are preaching to the choir in my case. I can't seem to get many of these other guys to see the lies being told to us to start the two wars and the systematic attacks by the bush administartion on the middle-class is the cause of our recession. When Henry Paulson had the opportunity to buy out all the default mortgages from the banks for pennies on the dollar he could have done that, It would mean tax payers just made 200-300% on everydollars we spent. Then we let these home owners stay and keep their mortgage at 4% instead of the 10-12% that got them in trouble we would have made another 100% profit on interest. The housing market would have stablized and crisis avoided.

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        • @CarolFryer@seejaymouser@emperorjhan

          Arizona. Much in the news here about these issues, and also in New Mexico, although that fine state is not being accused of the same discriminatory practices as Arizona. Arizona Republic is the main Phoenix paper, Arizona Daily Star in Tucson, but even national news has some discussions, esp about Arpaio.The detention of US citizens I think was on MSN.com recently.This is a seriously Republican state, but the papers usually present more than one side. Read about the murder of one of our neighboring ranchers, Bob Krentz, and see what we are dealing with here in the good old US.

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        • when someone hides their political views behind their religious views, it is alarming to me. Because every mass killing and genocide in history does the same, that's why more people has been killed in the name of God than all disease and natural disasters combined. If I ever have to hurt another man, or allow him to starve while I may have enough to share, it is because I am doing it out of my own survival instinct, and not because God or Jesus told me to.

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        • How do you know that these 82 people are citizens? You don't! Nobody carries a birth certificate around with them, but they ought to know where they can get one that would satisfy the authorities. Your arguments on the subject are propaganda. @micka @seejaymouser @emperorjhan

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        • This may be the only thing with which I agree with you. @emperorjhan

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        • I mean by that, the mixing of religion and politics. @emperorjhan

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        • @john lockes ghost@seejaymouser@emperorjhan

          Just because you aren't listening or looking does not make something propaganda! It took me three weeks to get a certified copy of my birth certificate from Minnesota. Sort of hard to get a money order to pay for one, or send a check, if you are incarcerated as these folks were.

          The Dept of Homeland Security and local law enforcement are who determined that these folks were citizens. They are now reviewing the status of folks held in Maricopa County detention to see who is legal and who is not because they became aware of the problem. This was national news last week,..

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    • Careful, you're lumping illegal immigration with legal immigration. With illegal immigration, it is not about money and the offer of money is nothing more than a bribe. . @emperorjhan

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  11. The root of the problem is the lack of enforcement on those businesses that employ illegal aliens.That's a bi-partisan problem that nobody has seriously addressed. Until that is implemented, the immigration reform plans are a joke!

    The idea of eliminating birthright citizenship and making it retroactive makes sense.

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    • @PeoplePower

      I'd say it is more of a problem with unequal enforcement. A family farmer, just a mile down the road from me, was fined $10,000 in 2009 when one of his 12 seasonal harvesters was found to have a fake SS#. Of course, the farmer had no way of knowing that the ID was fake .So, now he only plants crops that can be harvested by machine (corn and cotton) and we are paying more for melons, chiles, and the other crops he used to raise, because they are being shipped from places where there are adequate labor supplies (Mexico).However, the Las Vegas casinos, who hire hundreds of illegals and do have the resources to check for fake IDs, don't get fined. HMMMM. Follow the money.

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    • I maintain that until you enforce a law you can't know what's wrong with it. Therefore, before we fall for the hoax that our immigration law is broken, enforce it! @PopulistPower

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  12. Paul doesn't go quite far enough on ending "birthright citizenship."

    To restore any semblance of rationality to federal immigration policy, birthright citizenship must be REVOKED RETROACTIVELY from those who gained citizenship by this thoroughly anti-nationalistic and corrupt "principle."

    These fraudulent "Americans" all need to be kicked out of the country, or legitimate American citizens will find they are the ones who will be kicked out of their own country. It is a case of them or us.

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    • @JohannGalt I also think birthright citizenship is extremely important. And I do see that the established good ole boys club in both parties seems to be simply replacing us for votes and people who are used to less rights no doubt will be more then happy to just let the government take care of them. Heck, so many Americans have fallen victem to that pit too. How many times do we see articles and picture of people in mass demanding free stuff from the government. But when we are replaced, they will be the only ones left to pay the bill......lol.

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    • @JohannGalt

      Where would you draw the line? My ancestors came here in 1680 without the permission of the English King....illegals?..., and we have ever since been citizens by virtue of being born here. So, would you start with us, or with people who came after the Constitution, or after WW1, or when? My nephew, Spaniard by birth, Scots by former residence, who served three tours of duty with the US Army in Iraq, is a legal resident and is currently working on obtaining his citizenship....his kids could not be citizens, go to public schools, be treated in public hospitals? Is that what you really want?

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      • @micka

        I draw the line with people who break THIS nation's laws (not some other nation's laws), being here illegally, and then use their chance to have an "anchor baby" to pry open vaults of social legislation that should be used exclusively for LEGAL immigrants and LEGAL citizens, people who abide by the laws of THIS country (and not some other).

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        • @JohannGalt@micka Exactly, and it all seems so obviously to be politically motivated for at least the last 2 administrations that Ive been aware of. I voted for Bush and then after the second vote, he started all this NAFTA garbage for Clinton. It seems the more the government gets involved the less is allowed to get done and we loose. They not only refuse to act, but do all they can to prevent anyone else from acting. I would be all for reforming the ways our immigration laws are handled, but personally from what Ive seen lately I cant truth this congress or president to do anything without trying to get more money out of us and screwing us again. They will tax us to protect some desert mouse in California or Arizona. Ive had enough. Vote all the rhinos out.

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        • @JohannGalt@micka Sorry for my rush in spelling. I cant trust this government. not truth...lol They have none of that either

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        • @CarolFryer@micka

          I'll do what I can to vote OUT the "rhinos" (most of whom are what I call ZIOCONS - people who place the interests of Israel above their own nation, and are very content to sacrifice the interests of the U.S. for those of Israel).

          Before I get called an anti-Semite, let me assure you that there were/are plenty of blood Jews who had big questions about concentrating all their people in one small country, so close to so many potential enemies - Sigmund Freud heads this list.

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        • @JohannGalt@CarolFryer

          I like the term ZIOCONS. Never have understood why Israel is so much more important than any other country, including our own. We probably have more citizens from India, Mexico ,China, etc than Israelis but we kowtow to israel like they are the be-all and end-all. I am a Catholic of Spanish heritage but don't put the needs of Spain or the Church over those of my country. Why do we put up with it from these ZIOCONS ? Follow the money.

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  13. Perhaps if Ron Paul gets in he can straighten the problems out. Hes got a great head on his shoulders constitutionally. I know one thing. We cannot just have people pouring in over the border and taking jobs people may desperately need, especially now. And it really is offensive that I feel illegals and legal immigrants often get the raw end because they have to work for dirt cheap in many cases. So only the employers make out and everyone else looses, because the law is not enforced. I dont know the reasoning behind all they do and seeing how government works, I dont think I want to. My son already thinks Im nuts for screaming at Congress on the TV. They are such criminals. And they have the nerve to get on national TV after they screw us and tell us it was what we wanted. They all belong in jail.

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  14. I find I do slightly disagree with him on this one. If the immigration laws are enforced you wont need to do anything at the borders. They wont come if they cant get money and free stuff and automatic citizenship for breaking our laws.

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  15. Pingback: Ron Paul in a Landslide?

  16. Here's the essence of the problem: Companies like Cargill or Holiday Inn, pay these illegals $6/hr. By hiring that illegal immigrant, the additional costs generated to the USA is hundreds of dollars per hour. Of, course we aren't paying the bill now, we're obviously content on saving that for our kids, so we don't notice the full costs now.

    (That's one of the reasons we have a $15 trillion deficit -- the Feds just borrow the money. BTW, much of the debt is financed with short-term treasuries -- which have, temporarily, ultra low interest rates --we just keep borrowing with impunity) But eventually interest rates will rise. T-bills and notes are now close to 0%, they were as high as 19% back in the early 1980s. When rates normalize to at least the 5 -6% rate, we're going to see a lot of shaken going on. Of course, again, no politician in his right mind is going to want the current voting age pool to be troubled by this. We have already committed to a future debt of over $62 Trillion!).

    Meanwhile, Cargill, which is a private corporation owned by private families, is raking in a huge fortune off the backs of the American taxpayer, who will eventually have to pay the horrendous bill.

    As I've said before, we haven't even begun to see the real costs of illegal immigration:

    1).losing control of the ballot box to a Socialist-minded Mexican focused burgeoning population and

    2). Healthcare costs. The avg illegal has very little in savings. When they reach 65, they can expect a future healthcare expense alone of over $217,000 per person in today's dollars. Just looking at the estimated 20 million illegals (and not considering all their kids) that is close to $4.4 Trillion for medical expenses alone.

    Again, don't worry about it -- our kids will deal with it.

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  17. immigration wouldnt upset me so much if the illegals "wanted" to better their lives. Instead they "want" a better life. eg. free schools, free healthcare, free food stamps, free assisted living. As apposed to working for it. Most that I meet take the position that they don't have to follow rules. Many have no pride in their work. They act like a latino union, just enough to collect that paycheck. Their kids have little respect for anything including themselves. Their country is a dump and they want to see how rapidly they can cause ours to decay to the same shambles.

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    • "Most that I meet take the position that they don't have to follow rules." In itself, that is criminal thinking and indicates the rationale for their removal from our country. The United States has a proud tradition of accepting people from around the world AS LONG AS THEY APPLY for entry and don't have a criminal record. . @starkst

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    • @starkst

      How many immigrants do you actually know? I'd guess zero. I have worked with the immigrant population for over 60 years, and your characterization is really off base. Have you been to Vegas? Who do you think keeps it going? Immigrants. Do you eat fruit and vegetables? Who do you think harvests them? Immigrants. Have you actually looked at the original data on unpaid medical bills? Go ask the CFO of your local hospital. It will be Americans, not immigrants, causing the vast majority of these bills. Immigrants rarely use hospitals because they are afraid of being caught and deported. Get real. Get facts. The problem with illegal immigration is a big one that needs serious discussion, not this spewing of BS. False information just obscures the real issues. and slows down any actual efforts at resolution. Your comments seem more racist than realistic. If you are getting your info from Fox News, try going for the original data and skipping their interpretation of it. You will be surprised.

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      • I've nothing whatever against immigrants, my wife immigrated from Germany and my sister-in-law from South America. What I do have a problem with are ILLEGAL immigrants. Attempting to confuse the issue by lumping the illegals with the legal immigrants is a subterfuge. @micka @starkst

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        • @john lockes ghost@starkst

          It is so difficullt and takes so long to get a work visa if you are Mexican, that it is becoming really hard to find a Mexicam immigant who is legal. That is why I lump them. My cousin's nephew has been trying to get a visa for 11 years. He is a lawyer in Mexico, but is willing to take any work so that his wife can be with family who are legally here in the States and waiting to become citizens. On the other hand, my nephew, a Spaniard living in Scotland, got a visa almost immediately. Also a lawyer, he now works as a bank teller in Florida. None of it makes sense to me. We surely don't have a shortage of tellers.

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        • Micka, you still can't lump the two types of immigrants together. That, at times, it's tough to have to wait (in fact I know of some people that gave up after waiting 17 years) it is still not one's imperative to overrule the rule of law. Your relative is among many coming from many different countries that have to be taken into consideration to see who gets the nod. I'm sorry, but that's the way it works and to make a special case for one, impairs fairness to the rest. @micka @starkst

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        • @john lockes ghost@starkst

          Fairness is not a concept guiding the immigration system, or should I say lack of system? It escapes me why hundreds of thousands of people who used to be allowed work visas, came every year to work here, and paid into SS (for which they now recieve no benefits, incidentally) became "illegal" with the stroke of a WDC pen. The Bracero Program worked pretty well. So, some politicos decided to change it for their own purposes, and suddenly those innocents became illegal. My nephew got his visa so fast because he is European, rather than Mexican. Anyone living along the border can tell of abuse of immigrants, both legal and illegal, and anyone who "looks Mexican", US citizens included. But the violent criminals? The drug runners? The gang members? Somehow they manage to get in and endanger our lives and property. Huh! Wonder why? Follow the money. Stop the corruption, not the workers.

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        • @john lockes ghost@starkst

          That is just the point. Special cases are made all the time, and they routinely favor the well-off western European or East Indian over the needy Latino or African or eastern European. The excuse? The former are "educated", and will find work more readily. What a scam! One of these rejected Africans became the Minister of Education for Kenya. One of my former colleagues, a rejected Latino, is Medical Director of a hospital in Ecuador. Applicants are not treated as individuals, but are lumped into pools characterized by some comic book vision of "those people" from "that country". It is all garbage, and hurts us as much as it hurts them. If they want to bring their brains and their backs and their ambition here, we should be encouraging and interested, not repressive. In our aging population, we need new blood and new ideas and new taxpayers.

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        • The drug runners and other criminal types get in because we are lax at enforcing our immigration law.

          It's obvious that you are playing the race card, but you're right about the fairness of our current immigration situation. However, any unfairness in the system is not due to our immigration law, rather, it is due to the lax enforcement of it.

          @micka@starkst

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        • @john lockes ghost@starkst

          Playing the race card? What BS! This is a common cop out by folks who don't want to look at what is really happening, or are living in a very sheltered situation. The new interpretations of immigration laws are what is "playing the race card". Note the current discrimination and racial profiling investigation of Sheriff Arpaio, serving the Phoenix area, the 5th largest city in the US. Anti-Latin immigrant activity is not only common in some areas, it is institutionalized. When the Border Patrol stops your dark complected friends or family multiple times per day, you really stop questioning whether race is a factor.You know it is..

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        • @micka@john lockes ghost@starkst i know it. When they are looking for an illegal Mexican, they really should look for a little white haired grandma, or how about even go to Isreal and ask if they know where one is. So borders and immigration laws are all racist. Wow. I had no idea. So glad you enlightened me.

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        • @CarolFryer@john lockes ghost@starkst

          How would you feel if your son or grandson were stopped every day on the way to and from school, frequently held for long enough to make him late to classes? If you were followed and stopped by officers every time you went out to eat or to a movie? When I (a blonde) am by myself...no problems. But when I have family (dark-complected) in the car, we get stopped.. You must not grasp the fact that Mexicans come in all colors. Watch a telenovela and you will see blondes, and redheads as well as dark complected folks.This is a real problem for honest US citizens, and snarky comments do nothing to solve it.

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      • @micka@starkst You do know there is a difference between an immigrant and an illegal right?

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  18. Pingback: Ron Paul: Hell Freezes Over | Nobody's Business

  19. Again, I have the perfect solution: People like yourself, must sponsor the immigrant.

    You will be responsible for all societal costs and fiscal burdens created. Right now, phonies like you are forcing the rest of us, especially our children, to support your socialist philosophy.

    The avg illegal immigrant is a huge net tax recipient -- which means they consume far more tax dollars than they pay into the system -- to the tune of 30 fold or more.

    How much money and time do you currently contribute to sponsoring illegal immigrants in this country. what we need are phonies like you to step up to the plate and sponsor that family -- when they have children -- you will be responsible for the fiscal burdens of each child - to the tune of $200,000 per child.

    How's your socialist agenda sound now? Do you work a second job? Why not? In actuality, your concern only goes as far as others are forced to pay. If you had to pay for the expenses, your philosophy would change in an instant.

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    • @jjohn Are you serious. So they wont take care of themselves so we need to step up and be responsible for them and put ourselves and our families on the line. Go right ahead. We wont stop you. Personally I dont feel obligated to do that to someone who breaks the laws. But you go right ahead.

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  20. Pingback: Criminal Aliens Leaving Bankrupt United States In Droves: U.S. Debt & Unemployment Soars ~ Mexico’s Unemployment Rate Only 4.9% | Political Vel Craft

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