Illegal Immigration




Illegal immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for our economic crisis. But with free markets and private property, the need for immigrant labor becomes obvious. Most immigrants, regardless of the color of their skin, are open to the ideals of liberty: private property, free markets, sound money, right to life, low taxes, less war, protection of civil liberties, and a foreign policy designed for peace.

Ron Paul proposed the following action steps for dealing with illegal immigration:

  1. Abolish the welfare state. The incentive to take a job at whatever wage available must prevail.
  2. Establish a generous visitor work program. Once we solve the economic crisis by introducing sound money, demand for domestic and immigrant labor will rise.
  3. Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards. Allow states and landowners to enforce the law and provide security assistance.
  4. Abolish birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents’ home countries.]
  5. End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.



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3,498 Comments:

  1. “Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.”

    It is also a lot of people to deport back. And also a lot of government intervention. And also a lot of hard working people to penalize for actions that are not crimes, who are by the way far from rewarded, given their situations.

    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.”

    So privacy should only be protected for U.S. citizens? And the government should be able to track foreigners as they please? Doesn’t sound that ethical to me.

    “As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.”

    Being an attractive place to hard-working foreigners who want to improve their lives and chances of a better future is not a bad thing. However, cut all the benefits that the government gives away if you want them to come for the right reasons instead of coming for the welfare (most immigrants come looking primarily for jobs anyways, despite other benefits which end up being far less determining).

    Too bad Ron Paul fell short on this one issue on libertarian standards.

    »crosslinked«

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    • I refuse to vote for Republicans or Democrats, it’s like you’re choosing between Satan and the Devil!

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    • @Daniela_Madriz Ok how much actually comes out of your pocket?? Ok, now how many burritos do you eat per day?

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    • …have you ever lived in a country other than the USA? If not, try it and see how far you get. The only reason our powers in charge have been so lenient is due to migratory workers…and yes, if you are in a ‘foreign country’ you abide by their laws, yes we should be able to track foreigners, are you serious? try to establish yourself as a citizen in another country and I am positive you wil think differently…A Utopian Society would be nice, but I beleive that is referred to as heaven…

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    • …have you ever lived in a country other than the USA? If not, try it and see how far you get. The only reason our powers in charge have been so lenient is due to migratory workers…and yes, if you are in a ‘foreign country’ you abide by their laws, yes we should be able to track foreigners, are you serious? try to establish yourself as a citizen in another country and I am positive you wil think differently…A Utopian Society would be nice, but I beleive that is referred to as heaven…

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    • john lockes ghost

      If foreigners want to improve their lives and think that it can be done by migrating to the United States, then let them APPLY to enter, otherwise, they are breaking the law and should be denied jobs, sanctuary and/or any and all other kinds of support making them self-deport. If they can attain all thy want by breaking the law and entering the U.S. Illegally, why would they ever enter legally? Ron Paul has the right idea, a nation without borders is not a nation. @Daniela_Madriz

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    • @Daniela_Madriz What is wrong about tracking visa holders here? Being here with a visa is a privilege, and if you break our laws or overstay you’re welcome, you should have that privilege stripped from you. Visa holders should be paid close attention to, there is nothing wrong with that.

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    • PiercingVision1957

      @Daniela_Madriz We won’t have to deport them back. We will dry up all job opportunities for illegals by punishing the employers. Most of the people will return on their own. With no job and no way to get aid they will return to Mexico.

      Working as an illegal is a crime in addition to being and illegal.

      Yes, privacy is only protected for US citizens. If you enter this country and violate the conditions of the Visa you have no rights to stay and no right to privacy. We can hunt you down and deport you.

      If you want to come to America, do so legally. Babies weren’t accidently born here. Lets make babies citizens if their parents are citizens first.

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    • @Daniela_Madriz Why do we have laws against things like that if they arent going to be enforced? What would the point be? You talk about privacy for US citizens, I assume that you mean, law-abiding, tax-paying citizens….in that case, then yes, they deserve their privacy. Once you break the laws you forfeit part of your rights…it sucks but that is the way that it works. You say “track foreigners”. This is a blatant mis-representation of what he is saying. “Foreigners” who are in the USA legally have nothing to fear. “Law-breaking” ILLEGAL immigrants are the ones to which he is referring.

      He definitely DID NOT fall short on this issue. Anyone who does their research on the negative effects of these kinds of things will easily realize that he has hit the nail SQUARELY on the head.

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    • @Daniela_Madriz

      We don’t have to hunt down every illegal in this country. All it takes is to penalize the employers and the jobs will dry up and they will self deport. They are already leaving the battle ground states in anticipation of their citizen standards laws eventually being upheld and more states are going to jump on that wagon if those laws hold up.

      Sure there are many hard working folks among the illegal workforce but that’s not the point. They may draw a check from these companies but they’re drawing their benefits from the communities they live in and we can no longer carry the burden. This “cheap” labor is costing us plenty and it is well documented that the illegal Mexican community alone are sending Billions of dollars, tax free, back to Mexico. Tell me this is not so!

      If we give away EZ citizenship like we want, if just by stepping over the line a person can gain the same status as people who have been here for generations or worked hard for the seven years to become a citizen the right way by playing by the rules, then what we will get won’t be citizens but opportunists. An opportunist is a poor citizen, they won’t care for what they’ve gotten and the rights that come with being a citizen will be diminished to the point of, well, what’s the point of citizenship if anyone can become one just by saying so.

      If we all weren’t competing for benefits provided by the State then this could be a different story. Like in the old days when my great grand parents were recruited as fodder for the mills of the industrial revolution. They had the promise of a job and that was it. They got nothing else and they worked for everything they got.

      I’m all for competing on an equal playing field with anybody. but that’s not what we have. Now we have a cradle to grave welfare state that all citizens are compelled to contribute to. Now it gets sketchy because people are drawing those benefits without ever paying in and they don’t like it and I don’t blame them.

      If we can end the welfare state, or if it collapses which is much more likely since nobody wants to give up “their fare share”, then we can talk about citizenship but I’ll bet dollars to donuts that if it does collapse, many people from outside the country will just move on to the next place having killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

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    • @Daniela_Madriz

      We don’t have to hunt down every illegal. All it takes is to penalize the employers and the jobs will dry up and they will self deport. They are already leaving the battle ground states in anticipation of their citizen standards laws eventually being upheld and more states will follow.

      Sure there are many hard working folks among the illegal workforce but that’s not the point. They may draw a check from these companies but they’re drawing their benefits from the communities they live in and we can no longer carry the burden. This “cheap” labor is costing us plenty and these people are sending Billions of dollars, tax free, back to Mexico. Tell me this is not so!

      And lastly, if we give away EZ citizenship like we want, if just by stepping over the line a person can gain the same status as people who have been here for generations or worked hard for the seven years to become a citizen the right way by playing by the rules, then what we will get won’t be citizens but opportunists. An opportunist is a poor citizen, they won’t care for what they’ve gotten and the rights that come with being a citizen will be diminished to the point of, well, what’s the point in citizenship if anyone can become one just by showing up.

      If this was a level playing field we were competing on then sure, lets compete but we’re living in a welfare state where the citizenry are compelled to contribute and so we are seeing people who never paid into the system drawing benefits.

      This isn’t the bad old days of the industrial revolution where my great grand folks were recruited to become fodder for the mills. The were promised a job and that’s all they got. If we could return to those days and we may when the system collapses, we can talk about earning citizenship.

      But I’ll bet dollars to donuts that many people from other countries will just move on to the next place having killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

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    • @Daniela_Madriz I trust there would be a manner of transition. But what would President Daniela do instead of RP?

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    • mark smith minnesota

      @Daniela_Madriz

      Send Mexico the bill for jail, welfare and deportation cost’s

      If parents are illegal any kid born here should be illegal

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    • @Daniela_Madriz Are you nuts it was illegal aliens that caused 9/11 amoung other crimes so yes they need to be tracked and no they do not deserve the same rights as people who are here legally. You apparently have not done your homework in how bad illegal aliens effect this country and the hard working people in it, look at our crime rate and our unempolyment rate amoung many other issues not to mention our heathcare costs

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    • Here is something to maybe help you understand, Take a sack of grains and cut a hole in the bottom of it, as time goes on the less grains you have in the sack till there is little to none. Same thing economically Illegal immigrants coming here for work is cutting holes in our Economic sack and our “grains” money is falling out over our border and thousands of jobs are being lost to illegal immigrants. When a employer hires these illegal immigrants he can pay them less, and therefore do contract jobs for less allowing him to win the bid on a contract over a person with full Legal US citizens working for him who he has to pay the minimum wage standard. Now not only are these illegal not paying taxes, which is putting “grain” back into our economic sack. The tax payer is paying for all the programs set in place to help the poor which is just ripping this country apart. @Daniela_Madriz

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      • In case you didn’t know Illegal Immigrants pay taxes just like any other person who lives on the U.S. and buys goods and services. They also pay taxes on their jobs and taxes for property, including land, vehicles, and just about anything legal immigrants pay. So I would most of you have no idea how the system works, how economics work. You blindy point your finger, well you should point your finger up your ass buddy.

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    • @Daniela_Madriz illegals have no rights and yes privacy should only be protected for U.S. citizens,what part of illegal do people not understand !

      The U.S . doesn’t have to deport anyone ,just make it impossible for them to work or get hand outs !

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    • @Daniela_Madriz Jobs should be denied to illegal immigrants as well as any and all kinds of support greater than basic humanitarian support which may be limited to a tent and food rations… Once this is done, the millions who have come here illegally will self deport. It will take time, but it took time for all those millions to cross the border.

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    • @Daniela_Madriz Yes, privacy of U.S. Citizens should be put before those of non-citizens. This is America, and these people are guests in our country.

      As far as deporting the 10 or 20 million illegals, yes there would be a lot of government intervention but can you imagine 10 or 20 million jobs opening up for hardworking AMERICANS?

      Liberties for Americans should come before the liberties of all illegal immigrants? How can you argue against that, how can anyone argue against that?

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    • @Daniela_Madriz It’s not just the welfare. It’s the Medicare and CHIP programs that are afforded to illegal citizens but not to middle class americans who are contractors making $50k a year. My husband is a contractor, so we don’t have insurance, and private costs more than paying out of pocket for routine care, but the routine care is $200 if a child has strep throat, and that’s with a discount for paying out of pocket? These same citizens pay several thousand dollars in taxes, but someone who isn’t contributing to the IRS can freely have access to these programs even though they are breaking the law? I know that immigrants work, but they still cause a lot of debt to our country by not paying taxes and using our services.

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    • @Daniela_Madriz

      Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

      Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

      has committed a federal crime. Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense. IT IS A CRIME PERIOD!!!

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    • @Daniela_Madriz The bottom line is Illegal Immigrants are Illegal and should not be here, they have destroyed my country and they need to be stopped and removed!

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  2. I moved here from the United Kingdom when I was 2 years old. My father and mother both found jobs in the US and my brother and I are receiving great educations as the result of their hard work. Now that I am mature enough to realize that Immigration isn’t always on par with my experience, I know that Ron Paul’s strategy for overcoming illegal immigration is the MOST EFFECTIVE and MOST PRACTICAL for our great nation. I finally became a citizen two months ago, after living with a green card. I have great hopes that Ron Paul will win the GOP because he is the most intelligent Presidential candidate we have seen in recent history.

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  3. I’d be lying if I said illegal immigration doesn’t hit close to home being a Mexican American whose father was an illegal immigrant and my mother’s family is mexican-american. It’s a difficult situation because I feel a lot of resentment from individual and groups of white americans and the media concerning illegals and latinos in general. I am for easier immigration for practical reasons and for ideological reasons. Ideologically we are a nation of immigrants some that came by force, some that are forced to come in silence. I can’t imagine the reverse situation imagine if your grandparents never came to US in pursuit of a better life and opportunity? and now you wish to constrain who can come here in hopes of a better life? Its hypocritical. Practically speaking they/we have helped the economy grow, they/we work hard, we help protect the nation in wars, etc.

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    • @Daniel Monge you are the pot calling the kettle black. Try talking to Blacks and Asians and ask them about the resentment they feel from Mexican illegals or many Hispanics in general. Mexico is a very racially focused country — as are their citizens that move to the USA. Talk to the Blacks in Chicago and they’ll be quite upfront regarding their experiences. You seem to look at life through a Hispanic filter as well. Tell me of your actual posts anywhere on the internet where you are advocating for the rights of anyone other than Hispanics. Speaking of a racial orientation.

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      • @jjohn What resentments do they feel? can I ask you because you seem to know a lot. I agree mexico is racially focused as in the more spanish people’s hatred of the indigenous peoples. But my point here is as a person born and breed in the US who is far from ignorant about the history and the current situation of my people and other minorities in this country I just feel it’s hypocritical to say to one group they can’t come into the country when sooo many millions of others have come in “illegally”. And of course I look at life through a hispanic filter its the only filter I have but I try to look at multiple points of view and I just disagree with you that illegal immigrants are a huge problem. I think capitalism is more the problem and I think this issue is less severe than say the state of our schools.

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        • @Daniel Monge I don’t look at any race any different than any other. As you can see, I always post statistics — I am greatly influenced by statistics. I am also influenced by my own actual experiences. All the power to Mexican immigration as long as it is done legally and in a responsible manner and has the best interests of the USA. I will just give you a subtle example — in your post you reference “current situation of my people”. Well, in my view, you should feel “your people” are the general USA populace — not your prior country’s ethnicity. And this takes some time — and is why it is common sense to acknowledge that allowing massive immigration from any foreign country is not a good idea – especially when the statistics show otherwise.

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        • @jjohn@Daniel Monge FYI, “Mexican” is not a race, it’s an ethnicity. No culture = no identity = nobody!

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        • @jjohn I would like to look at some historical considerations. 1500s-1700’s Spanish, English, dutch, portugese, and french illegally immigrate to this land and murder innumerable natives and force africans to immigrate here. “1790 act,” only white’s can be naturalized (blacks, Natives and hence “latinos”, and asians were not included). Incoming immigrants never numbered that great after the initial inundations of europeans and africans until late 1800’s-early 1900’s and even then the only immigration laws passed were to stop the unwanted whites ie. jews and italians. Germans, polish and other northern and central europeans had no barriers to entry. There were programs during the early 1900’s to get hundreds of thousands of Mexicans and Puerto Ricans into the US where they were needed for work but then the great depression hit and they weren’t needed any longer and thus they along with many Mexican American US CITIZENS were deported.Same shit happened during WWII they asked for mexicans to come work in the factories, fields, etc. because they were needed and then the moment they weren’t needed they sent them packing after the war. Not to mention all the civil rights violations and race based violence and abuse. In 1965 they generalized immigration so as not to specify specific groups. Regan gave amnesty to 3 million “illegal” immig. Currently we allow 1 million legal immig. into the country and ~700,000 “illegals”. The point of the above is to show the way americans have picked and chosen WHO and WHEN they want immigrants in US. Now we are going through tough times and the first to get it is immigrants. There were no complaints during boom times of 90’s.

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        • @jjohn ” allow 1 mill. immig. and ~ 700,000 illegals” *annually*

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        • @jjohn You make a good point with assimilation. It does take time. and yes I have a lot of ties to Mexico and the mexican people but I also have a lot of ties to the US and its people. I love football, beer, brats, etc. just like lots of whites like burritos, tequila, our movies (they are in a “golden era” of movie making right now if you’re not a big movie buff), etc. I mean assimilation for sooo many centuries has meant “be exactly like me or die” (what with the forced conversion to christianity for example, forced adoption of english on the Natives, etc.) and now it is a two way street and many white people aren’t used to it and are afraid and don’t like it. But it could be a great thing. This has nothing to do with immigration I was just commenting on the whole above thing about me using the phrase “my people”. I mean like I commented earlier, historically the animosity towards mexicans and natives is obvious but even recently after all the civil rights movements and people becoming more open minded I still feel a lot of animosity in my day to day personal life from the US people and that’s why I often side with my prior country’s ethnicity.

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        • @SanchoPanza@jjohn Semantics! you know what the fuck we are talking about. But, to be technical there is no such thing as “race” biologically speaking. No other species in the study of taxonomy has “races.” The smallest grouping is a species but I think people didn’t want to refer to each other as different species so they instead use the word race. But it’s interesting because in many ways we are distinct species. A species is really a blurry line but essentially it is one sub-group of a larger group (ie humans) that has distinct characteristics and that doesn’t mate outside it’s species. Now we often mate outside our group but it used to be that we didn’t! Thus we may actually be several different SPECIES!

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        • john lockes ghost

          It’s our house and we’ll invite whomever we like to enter it! Reagan made a mistake in granting amnesty which is the reason that we have the 20 million invaders here now. Insanity would be to grant amnesty to them. @Daniel Monge @jjohn

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        • john lockes ghost

          No, no illegals should be granted amnesty, not now, not ever! @Daniel Monge @jjohn

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        • @jjohn@Daniel Monge Just so you know, people can use statistics to skew either the pro or con of any topic. BTW, I am one of the “BLACKS” you referred to and I have no resentment towards Hispanics. I believe you are unfairly speaking for a whole race. It’s also funny that Paul wants to deport 20M illegals. Do you have any idea how large ICE would have to be in order to deport that many people? And how much money it would cost. Plus how much it would cost to secure the borders and make them unpenetrable? Not to mention eliminating birthright citizenship would be unconstitutional.

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          • I dont believe he wants to deport all of them, he said it would be impossible, there is no telling where all they are or where they are hiding, but to deport the criminals or the ones they do find, etc.

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        • @SanchoPanza@jjohn@Daniel MongeActually, Mexican is a nationality.

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    • john lockes ghost

      Americans are always happy to accept immigrants that enter LEGALLY. There’s nothing hypocritical about enforcing our laws to prevent people from entering that break the law to get here. Since you brought up the idea of being hypocritical, may I suggest that you look in a mirror?, @Daniel Monge

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    • My maternal grandparents were Mexicans born in America, and the border happened to fall inside America (Texas) where my great grandfather lived. They were proud of their Mexican heritage but never condoned illegal immigration. My paternal grandparents were immigrants from Italy and had to go through all the proper channels before being able to reap the benefits of citizenship. All of them would be appalled at how immigration laws allow illegals to take advantage of American taxpayers. They were hard working people who took advantage of the American dream of owning their own businesses and they paid their taxes and did not support themselves on the welfare of others. My education cost me over $100K because I didn’t qualify for the huge reduction in tuition costs that are given to my illegal counterparts. NO ONE is saying that immigrants should not come to this country. As an American with Mexican heritage, saying that those of us who do not want to subsidize illegal aliens are racist, is just an excuse to not take responsibility and an insult. @Daniel Monge

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    • @Daniel Monge I see an overall move to generalize and redirect the aim of peoples resentment from illegal to just latinos and its just not true. People on allot of different issues tend to take things personally even when it doesnt apply. And even if it does, to make it all about race is actually very decietful. Its not about race.

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    • @Daniel Monge Your not getting it. Its about doing it legaly and thats it stop making this something that it isn’t.

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    • @Daniel Monge You and your whole family SHOULD be booted out IMMEDIATELY. You and your whole family are innate garbage, you invading robber trash! Your asshole sperm donor was/is too much of a weakling to obey our laws, and trashy runt you continue the assault of your inferior trashy race of bastards upon our better than you always peoples, who should never have given you a chance to defile our land.

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  4. CITIZENS don’t typically work for less than the going rate for their labor. CITIZENS typically pay taxes. If given the choice between a CITIZEN who speaks English and one who doesn’t, employers prefer an employee they can communicate easier with. So what’s the problem with Amnesty if they work for the same amount as Joe Smith, pay taxes and have to learn English to have a chance at the job? “We are rewarding them for breaking our laws!” A heavy fine, to be paid off over time, with interest is hardly a reward. They won’t be able to send that money back to their old home, but it will instead stay within the system of their new home.

    Crack down on employers and slum lords who break the law, have “new” CITIZENS sign an acceptance of back-debt based on how long they have lived here illegally and level the playing field; no preferential treatment, no double standards, to discrimination or favoritism. This is an open arms policy that will discourage criminal parasites and encourage hard working families that want to integrate, contribute and help this country.

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    • @Durgency

      The problem with amnesty like we had in the 1980’s was the lack of border enforcement and tougher laws to stop more immigrants from coming here. Ever since amnesty, we have had a flood of illegals here taking jobs from American Citizens. American citizens have to get a 4.2 or higher to get into UCLA, but an illegal alien can get in with a 2.8 – does that sound fair? (story in L.A. Times). Now, there are millions of American citizens without jobs and needing goverment assistance and the help is going to illegals because it’s “unfair” to ask to see I.D. Sorry, but illegal aliens have had enough time here in our country benefiting from what it has to offer and attending our schools so now it’s their opportunity to go back home and improve their home countries. I’ll say its okay to put their name (with fingerprints) on a list on their way out of the country to become American citizens in the future.

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  5. Daniel Monge wrote: “……………..a 2008 study actually found illegal immigration was a boon to the American economy!! It estimated that illegal immigrants add $245 billion in Gross Domestic Product to the economy and account for 2.8 million jobs!!!…………..”

    I respond: The economic benefit of illegal immigration will be replaced by the economic benefit of LEGAL immigration. People are people, regardless of whether or not they have entered the country legally or not. For this reason, I see your argument as moot. A small ( or at least a much smaller ) government under the control of the people (as it should be) will have less to do; allowing it to do its legitimate work much more effectively. Controlling ILLEGAL immigration would mean that LEGAL immigration could proceed at a pace that will supply the people America needs to benefit in the ways that you describe. Surely, it makes sense to allow immigration to people who meet the criteria established by law as opposed to allowing immigration to whom ever manage to sneak in against the law. This is just common sense, wouldn’t you agree ? You can’t expect to laws to be useful if you are selective in their enforcement.

    p.s. – I agree that mrjAK47 sounds like an idiot, who seems able to only spew hateful rhetoric. He does not help paint a good picture of libertarians who really understand the benefits of the ideology.

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    • @freedlsonfour

      I responded to Daniel Monge’s post as follows:

      Sure there are jobs created. Just like the slave trade created great commerce, you idiot. Those figures of GDP are dwarfed by the $4.4 trillion in eventual healthcare costs alone. We have a $15 trillion dollar deficit because of idiots like you only looking at one side of the ledger. The costs to this country FAR OUTWEIGH THE INFLOWS. Educate yourself. The illegal Mexican immigrant is a net tax recipient by a huge margin — they consume far more tax dollars than they pay into the system. Go to Center for Immigration Studies and educate yourself. The site is run by Harvard professor George Borjas — an immigrant professor himself.

      Daniel Monge, you referring to illegal immigrant children as our future leaders is laughable — they are apt to be socialist minded pro-Mexican, Pro-La Raza. They will elect socialist politicians who enact socialist and confiscatory legislation. 2/3rd of Hispanics voted for Obama.

      Danial Monge said the costs are overstated because it counts the expenses of the illegals’ children! What! You’re damn right they should count the expenses of the illegals’ children. Monge said because the children are citizens upon birth that they are no longer an illegal immigrant cost. This is assinine! What garbage!

      This is typical “off-balance sheet” accounting – the same stuff that Enron was doing — cooking the books to show just one side of the ledger.

      I had a friend in the military overseas and he employed several locals — for dollars per day! Those are great jobs!, — and lots of jobs created I’m sure — for a few dollars a day. Again, just like the slave trade created lots of commerce.

      This country has future liabilities of $62 Trillion — largely because of inept or outright thievery — brought about and accepted largely because of idiots like Daniel Monge and his bone-headed logic and “off-balance sheet accounting” type mindset..

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    • @freedlsonfour I wrote that only as a response to jjohn’s statement. I fully agree it would be best to have all legal immigrants. But, in my opinion a path to citizenship for those already here would be best in addition to other reforms. Also, it’s a complex problem not as easy as saying shut down the borders. As long as employers want cheap labor to maximize profits they will continue to hire illegal immigrants or even worse move their companies to India, china, etc. In my opinion the culture of greed and power that is a byproduct of capitalism is the problem. Don’t get me wrong capitalism had brought us wealth and prosperity but along with it a whole host of other problems. What do we do? Can we get rid of capitalism no. can we reform it so that we are even slightly more responsible in our actions? Yes but it will be difficult and I believe that we need to put a lot more money, thought, time and effort into our schools. kind of off the topic of immigration sorry about that but capitalism is the problem.

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    • @freedlsonfour mrjAK47 makes some very good points. The USA grew by 13 million people since Oct 2006. The USA is projected to grow by another 100 million by 2046. This coming year , last estimate I saw, the USA will have a corn carryout of only 25 days. That is right — we will only have a supply to last 25 days by the start of next harvest. Let me ask you what will be the ramifications of a horrible growing season? Just because it hasn’t happened doesn’t mean it can’t.

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    • freedisonfour, I am NOT an idiot or someone who spews hateful rhetoric!! I am someone who lived my whole Life in a community of Hispanics and had friends who were Mexicans, which is what THEY called themselves I watched our quiet neighborhood turn into a ghetto with gangs, drive-by shootings, bars on windows and graffiti sprayed on homes and fences. I had a Mexican male come up behind me and hold a knife to my back when I walked to my car at night. I managed an apt complex which was ALL Hispanics and a few blacks. A few of the residents were quiet, Religious, and decent people. Many, without the “anchor” of their families’ “values”, became members of gangs, drug users, and also into consuming large quantities of alcohol.” That was 26 years ago…the problem is much greater now. E-verify is already working in the States and communities that are using it. So what if it doesn’t work 100%?? It is the only viable solution we have at this time. YOUR solution is INSANE!! With our economy as it is, we cannot afford to continue even LEGAL immigration…go check out the gumball video on Immigration on youtube to help you understand WHY…then extrapolate THAT out to all of the ones who are here ILLEGALLY. Don’t assume that you know me, when you haven’t walked in my shoes!!

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      • @mjrAK47 Its funny because I have had white cops put guns to my head, beat me while in cuffs and fracture my jaw, nearly break my arm, I have seen gatherings of white neo-nazis, know white graffiti artists and white gang bangers, I have been robbed by a white guy once. called spic before, and essentially my ancestors were robbed by yours at gun point and even worse bcuz many many of them didn’t make it out alive. Whites fear mexican gang bangers and mexicans fear the white gang members ie the POLICE (or nazis kkk etc)

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  6. I have always felt that if I was a person who lived in a Country that gave me no hope of rising above my station in Life, I would be ONE of those who crossed our borders to find a better Life for myself. Part of me feels compassion for those who are coming to America for a better life. We are ALL God’s children…Right? However, what has happened is that this tsunami of human beings coming across has brought with them THEIR culture of poverty, drugs, violence and just a sheer mass of people that has wiped out our resources to handle this magnitude of people. I see America as the Titanic. The lifeboats are in the water and there are so many people dependent on those lifeboats that their ability to take on more of the drowning is unsustainable. The American people are trying to preserve themselves by limiting WHO and how MANY are allowed in the lifeboats. America is sinking and the Lifeboats are going down too. We cannot save anyone if we don’t first save this Country. IF we can even do that at this point, then as we grow stronger, we may be able to give Humanitarian aid to other countries and their people. Watch the Gumball demonstration video on Youtube concerning Immigration…it makes this issue of immigration pretty clear to even those with “limited capacity” to comprehend.

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    • @mjrAK47 to continue the analogy… we are the titanic there are enough boats for everyone yet they are released with 20 instead of 80 so everyone else drowns because you are in a fur and want elbow room.

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      • @Daniel Monge@mjrAK47 Daniel Monge is an Idiot! he the same type of Moron that was advocating the Barney Frank/ Chris Dodd bills that caused the blowup of the real estate estate market.

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        • @jjohn@Daniel Monge@mjrAK47 Face it jjohn, your’e just a culturally ignorant dumbass! Nuff said! End of story. and yes Manifest Destiny does work in reverse and Yes the Masonic York Rite rules here but the Scottish Rite rules in Mexico and yes they both want one thing. Poinsettas weren’t necessarily sought by the man whom was a York Masonic heading to meet a Scottish rite masonic. Stay in your bubble til it bursts!

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      • @Daniel Monge@mjrAK47 We have enough boats for everyone? Don’t make me laugh. You have been spoon fed Obama’s bullshit class warfare for 3 years. The more you post the less intelligent you sound.

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    • @mjrAK47 Also the idea that immigrants have a “culture of poverty, drugs, violence” is ridiculous and you are horribly misinformed.

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      • @mjrAK47 If that’s the case then the american culture is one of unjustified war and genocide, pedophiles, greed, and disease. fucking piglet

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        • @Daniel Monge Daniel, I am not someone in a fur coat. I raised my son alone, and cared for my Mother who had Alzheimers for over 10 years…without any help. I foster kids who are special needs and still help them with food clothes and money even after they leave my home. I grew up in a quiet neighborhood of elderly people…after a while, the neighborhood was taken over by the Hispanics…now, the neighborhood is run down, with graffiti on the homes and fences…windows with bars over them and gangs riding around in their lowrider cars. You know nothing about me, yet jump to conclusions about ME…as you said that I am a bigot. I am on this forum because I want to see America returned to the Country that our forefathers fought and died for. USA and Canada are the only two countries that have a legal immigration policy. Before you go spouting off about how we should give all who are already here illegally and that we should continue even the LEGAL immigration policy, go to youtube and watch the gumball video on “legal” immigration. Maybe THAT will open your eyes to how big of an issue that even Legal Immigration really is. BTW…I AGREE with you that many in our society are as you have stated. We cannot have laws that give EVERYONE a right to do whatever they want…The laws are for the MAJORITY because without laws, we become a lawless people.

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        • @mjrAK47 fought and died for..? lmao more like murdered and stole. I don’t recall calling u a bigot. the point of the titanic analogy was to show you my thoughts on your analogy. if america is a sinking ship with huge life rafts that end up only getting 1/10th filled by the rich and white then you are that 1/10th watching the rest drown. I just watched the gumball video and it is crazy. I am in college and study “biomath” its the math behind population, metabolism, chemical synthesis, etc. so I know quite a bit about this… all I can say is that it seems quite obviously biased I would have to look at the data and not just take his word for it. But, he has a point. I’ve read that by the year 2050 “latinos” will be the majority in this country. What can I say.. just desserts? idk.. if you look at history since say 1500’s whites have treated non whites terribly and now with a shift in power and numbers whites are terrified. The same way you claim your neighbor hood turned into a “ghetto” my peoples land was turned into an equally if not scarier setting during imperialism and manifest destiny. However, I think we live in a time where racial violence is no longer as wide spread and certainly no longer encouraged or condoned so lets hope for your sake this continues. Also, w. respect to the video, a big reason the 3rd world is the 3rd world is because racist, imperialist european actions over the course of the past 400-300 years. Did you notice pieces of the video were cut out? at least in the one I saw which ran 10 minutes.

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        • john lockes ghost

          What does your history (if you have one) say about you? And what do you think the world would have become had the Spanish defeated the English, rather than the other way around? The English and other western Europeans brought civilization to the world. Everyone else, bloodshed and thievery. So Monge kiss my ass!@Daniel Monge @mjrAK47

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        • @Daniel Monge@mjrAK47 I would really love for you to go into detail about what you mean by that so that I can laugh at you. Before you run down our culture, reflect on the fact that we distribute by far the most humanitarian aid of any country in the world, even by percentage. It is scum like you that is dragging our country down, not people like Ron Paul, although I do not agree with him on most issues.

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    • @mjrAK47 you make some excellent points. Keep thinking independently. The USA grew by 13 million people since Oct 2006. The USA is projected to grow by another 100 million by 2046. This coming year , last estimate I saw, the USA will have a corn carryout of only 25 days. That is right — we will only have a supply to last 25 days by the start of next harvest. Let me ask you what will be the ramifications of a horrible growing season? Just because it hasn’t happened doesn’t mean it can’t.

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  7. @jjohn I think you are right, however , if the nation has immigration laws, which it does, and they ever become enforced again, which is constitutional, not only do you get to go to jail, but we get to boycott your business till it dies. Lets see if Obama bails you out with his private stash. I kinda doubt it. But you are right. You have the right to do whatever you want. But citizens also have the right to react in a nonviolent way, of course.

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  8. @jjohn Actually you can. And we get to boycott…lol

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  9. @jjohn See Ive never been libertarian or even looked into the libertarian principles, but Im beginning to understand these are the qualities our founders used to writing the constitution. And this is the thing government on both sides is reversing. They are taxing groups and groups have rights and groups can take anything and buy Washington. I can deffinately see the logic of individual rights. When unions and corporations can do what they do, we are on the way down if its not stopped. I remember hearing in the law once we had laws against an entity owning all of one thing and crowding others out. I dont remember what thats called, but I see so many companies have all but bought off the nation. And they have certainly bought off Washington. Everything seems to be going to the highest bidder, which leaves the citizens in the cold.

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  10. The whole issue seems simple to me. Government seems to fail once again at performing what should be a simply task with common sense in a straightforward manner. That task being to adopt laws that are fair for EVERYONE and enforce those laws consistently, effectively and without discrimination until the problem is corrected. Politics should have much less to do with it and government should just do its basic job, correctly. This is just another symptom of the problem with big-government. With so much power and wealth being distributed to so many people, the harm done by any action taken that might do political harm, cripples the government’s ability to act correctly; opening the door to corruption, discrimination, pandering, nepotism, etc., etc., …..all contributing to the government’s ineffectiveness and waste.

    Remember that freedom for capitalists also means freedom for environmentalist; freedom for socialists; freedom for philanthropists; freedom for you and your income to do whatever good YOU think needs to be done.

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    • @freedlsonfour And with the government getting bigger or even global it would affect people on a much larger scale. Any wrong moves could litterally kill millions. This is another reason Im for small government. And a simple lesson to me was when I became a christian. I was in a very small church, with a cross that lit up at night hanging off the front of the building. You could see it for blocks away. But when you walked in that door you felt at home. You felt the love and the warmth. We then decided to build a bigger building in another city and we all got to work. It was absolutely beautiful and huge with rooms for everything you could think of. But I saw we lost something when we moved and we slowly fell apart. The warmth was not there . It got lost in the crowd. The crowd was not a quality group of people who love God. We were attracting a allot of watered down Sunday church goers who never even opened a bible. They started teaching in Sunday school and taking on offices in the church. And the church died. There is a saying…..the more the merrier. You couldnt prove that by me. I miss that old cross. I want the fire back. I want my nation back.

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      • @CarolFryer First, I am for small government. Second, I am a God-loving, Bible reading, believer.

        If you open your Bible to Acts 2:41, you’ll find that the church grew by 3,000 in one day. They didn’t likely have a church with a steeple. You are saying the church fell apart because it was big. That would be incorrect. The size of a church does not determine its love for God. It also doesn’t determine whether God is present there or not.

        “They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. (Acts 2:45-47)

        If you want to be in a church like God celebrated in the New Testament, you better be willing to sit with people who have never opened a Bible. It sounds to me like the people who are mentioned in above had the fire because their church grew!

        Therefore, your experience is not the logic of why we need small government. You should present a different reason than you like the warm fuzzy you get from being in a smaller church.

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  11. Yep, you are one of those old throwback Libertarians. I don’t need to read 10 principles of squat to know you’re all wet. My rights this and my rights that will only get you thrown in jail and…no chics.

    You must be an incredible fun person to invite to a party.

    But anyway, I don’t need anybody to try to “out Libertarian” me, you egomaniac. It’s all about you isn’t it?

    I’ve known about Ron Paul since he first resigned from Congress in the 70s and as much of a figurehead he is for Libertarians everywhere, he did not write the book on it nor is he even close to being the first Libertarian.

    If you want to go up to the roof top with a rifle, go ahead but in life we’ve always had to pay someone for protection. It was either a King or a Lord or the Mob or in this case a Government but we’ve always had to pay and we’ve always had rules and laws and a man with a gun to answer to. If you can’t understand that, good luck to you boyo but you are out of the main stream.

    We don’t all strive to be totally free, just as free as we can be under the circumstances but you, you’re a prisoner of your own politics.

    Not me, baby.

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  12. Actually you are right, you can hire anybody you want but if you are caught hiring an illegal and the precondition of this scenario is if the government actually decides to enforce the laws, you could pay dearly. You have all the rights you care to take but there could be consequences if you violate the law. We are still a nation of laws.

    Claiming property rights and natural rights is the mark of one of those “Crazy Libertarians” who don’t think they should pay taxes or child support or provide a SS number when asked. Perhaps you are a throwback to the bad old days of militant Libertarianism. Makes the rest of us look bad.

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  13. you are a hopelessly naive buffoon.

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  14. Your idealistic philosophy and naive mindset is shameful. You must have grown up with a silver spoon in your mouth.

    Read history and learn.

    read my other posts to see how much of a republican I am.

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  15. You are right. I am no libertarian — in the definition you subscribe to.

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  16. @Lee15 you are leeching, you self-righteous jerk.

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  17. Fox News estimates that illegal immigrants cost the U.S. Taxpayer over 113 Billion annually.

    These figures do not show the real costs because the cost to our nation is back-ended due to increasing medical costs as individuals age and due to repercussions at the voting booth as the illegal’s children reach voting age and elect socialist -minded politicians who enact socialist and confiscatory measures.

    Jay, I have the perfect solution. You can sponsor each worker and you will be responsible for all costs and fiscal burdens created by that immigrant. Each child born to that family will result in you guaranteeing that you will be responsible for the current estimate of $222,000 expense required to raise the kid. You will pay all healthcare costs as well as additional educational expenses. If you are still around when that worker reaches the age of 65, you will be responsible for the $217,0000 of medical costs created on average by that individual.

    Educate yourself, Jay. You sound like a self-righteous idiot who feels he’s entitled to the U.S. taxpayers money and that the U.S. taxpayer has a responsibility to subsidize your business at their expense. The U.S. taxpayer pays for all the fiscal burdens created by jerks like you.

    Perhaps you pay the illegal $8/hr but the rest of our society is on the hook for over $100/hr of societal costs and fiscal burdens created by feeble minded jerks like you. Get your hand out of the U.S. citizens pockets.

    Go to Center for Immigration Studies or NumbersUSA and learn about the facts.

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    • @jjohnthe following is a summation from an article on fox news website, the proverbial other side of the coin. It stated that a 2008 study actually found illegal immigration was a boon to the American economy!! It estimated that illegal immigrants add $245 billion in Gross Domestic Product to the economy and account for 2.8 million jobs!!! So, we have to look at the motives of and the accuracy of these “studies”. Also, the single largest expense to the government w. respect to illegal immigration is that spent on schooling the children of illegals, who are in fact under the constitution LEGAL. “the report wrongly included American-born children of undocumented workers in its study.” They are U.S. CITIZENS who will grow up to be taxpaying U.S. adults. Even w/o the children of illegals Latinos are the fastest growing segment of the pop. and we need to invest in educating the next generation of leaders. Also, “the report fails to account for the purchasing power of unauthorized consumers, which supports U.S. businesses and U.S. jobs” So before you just start spouting stupid shit to spread your ignorant views investigate both sides of the story. Also you sound like a self-righteous IDIOT.

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      • @Daniel Monge Sure there are jobs created. Just like the slave trade created great commerce, you idiot. Those figures of GDP are dwarfed by the $4.4 trillion in eventual healthcare costs alone. We have a $15 trillion dollar deficit because of idiots like you only looking at one side of the ledger. The costs to this country FAR OUTWEIGH THE INFLOWS. Educate yourself. The illegal Mexican immigrant is a net tax recipient by a huge margin — they consume far more tax dollars than they pay into the system. Go to Center for Immigration Studies and educate yourself. The site is run by Harvard professor George Borjas — an immigrant professor himself.

        Daniel Monge, you referring to illegal immigrant children as our future leaders is laughable — they are apt to be socialist minded pro-Mexican, Pro-La Raza. They will elect socialist politicians who enact socialist and confiscatory legislation. @/3rd of Hispanics voted for Obama.

        I have the perfect solution. You can sponsor each worker and you will be responsible for all costs and fiscal burdens created by that immigrant. Each child born to that family will result in you guaranteeing that you will be responsible for the current estimate of $222,000 expense required to raise the kid till he is 18. If they go to College — you pay for that as well. You will pay all healthcare costs as well as additional educational expenses. If you are still around when that worker reaches the age of 65, you will be responsible for the $217,0000 of medical costs created on average by that individual. If you are not around, then your children will pay those costs. I can hear you squealing now, socialist.

        By the way, how many immigrants did you sponsor this year or ever? I thought so , you parasite.

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      • @Daniel Monge@jjohn I have one thing to say….OMG! Fox? Really? Fox is the biggest bunch of lieing globalists Ive ever seen. To try to get them to even report the news is an attempted miracle. I dont believe anything Fox says anymore. They are as bad as CNN who focuses on entertainment while Fox focuses on war and opinions. No news, no facts, no truth.

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      • @CarolFryer@jjohn Which is exactly my point. he quotes a “study” done by fox when on their own website I found the above quotes and report! they are contradicting themselves and I just wanted to point that out to jjohn but apparently he wants to pick and chose which findings he believes.

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      • @Daniel Monge@CarolFryer The number presented by Fox is the same number given by FAIR. if you don’t like that number than check with Numbers USA or Center for Immigration Studies or Pew or any of the other organizations.

        The problem with you both is that neither of you realize that you saying “I don’t believe” — doesn’t accomplish a single thing. Give me your stats. Tell me where FAIR or Fox or C.I.S or Pew or others are erring in their research.

        As for the cost to raise a child from birth to age 18, that $222,000 is, as I remember, from the Dept of Labor. If you don’t like that number, than you can look at the U.S. Dept of Agriculture that says it is over $226,000.

        Daniel Monge, again, you look like you are the retard and a mental midget. Saying you don’t like that number doesn’t make it go away.

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      • @jjohn I know it doesn’t cost that much to raise a child. My mother made ~18-20,000 my and my two sister’s entire childhood and teenage years. (no cheap shots here okay) multiply that by 18 and that’s $360,000 which obviously split between 4 is not 220,000. My mother was NEVER on welfare she takes pride in earning hers. Then you may say well the money for our schooling may be the other $132,000… .I don’t know if you know anything about the Milwaukee public school district but that is not an education worth $44,000 for each of us 3. and if that’s how much it was then somebodies not doing their job. Nevertheless through a lot of hardwork and these humble beginnings I am now a graduate from UWM in physics and attending graduate school in pursuit of my PhD.

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      • @Daniel Monge Well good for your family. I think the USA welcomes such immigrants and congrats to you as well in your hard work and achievements.

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      • @Daniel Monge@jjohn Daniel, I believe that the figures that are being quoted are for what the CURRENT economy’s cost would be. The dollar was worth a lot more when WE were being raised.

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    • @jjohnthe following is a summation from an article on fox news website, the proverbial other side of the coin. It stated that a 2008 study actually found illegal immigration was a boon to the American economy!! It estimated that illegal immigrants add $245 billion in Gross Domestic Product to the economy and account for 2.8 million jobs!!! So, we have to look at the motives of and the accuracy of these “studies”. Also, the single largest expense to the government w. respect to illegal immigration is that spent on schooling the children of illegals, who are in fact under the constitution LEGAL. “the report wrongly included American-born children of undocumented workers in its study.” They are U.S. CITIZENS who will grow up to be taxpaying U.S. adults. Even w/o the children of illegals Latinos are the fastest growing segment of the pop. and we need to invest in educating the next generation of leaders. Also, “the report fails to account for the purchasing power of unauthorized consumers, which supports U.S. businesses and U.S. jobs” So before you just start spouting stupid shit to spread your ignorant views investigate both sides of the story. Also you sound like a self-righteous IDIOT.

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      • @Daniel Monge

        Sure there are jobs created. Just like the slave trade created great commerce, you idiot. Those figures of GDP are dwarfed by the $4.4 trillion in eventual healthcare costs alone. We have a $15 trillion dollar deficit because of idiots like you only looking at one side of the ledger. The costs to this country FAR OUTWEIGH THE INFLOWS. Educate yourself. The illegal Mexican immigrant is a net tax recipient by a huge margin — they consume far more tax dollars than they pay into the system. Go to Center for Immigration Studies and educate yourself. The site is run by Harvard professor George Borjas — an immigrant professor himself.

        Daniel Monge, you referring to illegal immigrant children as our future leaders is laughable — they are apt to be socialist minded pro-Mexican, Pro-La Raza. They will elect socialist politicians who enact socialist and confiscatory legislation. @/3rd of Hispanics voted for Obama.

        I have the perfect solution. You can sponsor each worker and you will be responsible for all costs and fiscal burdens created by that immigrant. Each child born to that family will result in you guaranteeing that you will be responsible for the current estimate of $222,000 expense required to raise the kid till he is 18. If they go to College — you pay for that as well. You will pay all healthcare costs as well as additional educational expenses. If you are still around when that worker reaches the age of 65, you will be responsible for the $217,0000 of medical costs created on average by that individual. If you are not around, then your children will pay those costs. I can hear you squealing now, socialist.

        By the way, how many immigrants did you sponsor this year or ever? I thought so , you parasite.

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      • @jjohn Your analogy between slavery and illegal immigration is way off. As far as the costs vs benefits we are obviously looking at widely divergent data. With respect to them being our next leaders it’s the truth. I’ve read by 2050 Latinos (specifically Mexicans) will be the majority in this country with or without the additional pop. of illegals… what does that say? Are you so against these people (or so afraid of losing your privileged position) that we do everything we can to keep them from gaining some kind of power, responsibility? Besides bush had ~45% of the latino vote did he not? Latinos are very family and religious oriented. With respect to “illegals” one way or the other everyone here except for Natives (including many mexicans, tejanos etc) are “illegal”. As far as the sponsor ship stuff I’ve seen you quote those false statements like 5x. It does not cost $222,000 to raise a child until they are 18 are you fucking retarded? Also that bill will absolutely not be footed by the tax payer becuase 1. Their parents work for a living and pay for their own children 2. They pay taxes and don’t collect income taxes! They are putting billions into Social security and the economy!

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      • @Daniel Monge As for the cost to raise a child from birth to age 18, that $222,000 is, as I remember, from the Dept of Labor. If you don’t like that number, than you can look at the U.S. Dept of Agriculture that says it is over $226,000.

        Illegal immigrants are net tax recipients by a huge margin — which means they consume far more tax dollars than they pay. You say they pay billions into social security. That is meaningless if they consume tens of Billions of tax dollars.

        Again, you are 10 years too late. Enron went bankrupt a decade ago. You would have been an excellent “off balance sheet ” accountant for Enron — posting only the positive numbers and not including the losses — because the losses dwarfed the positives.

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  18. I am checking out this site to see if I could support Ron Paul for president. I agree with everything here except for his stance on birthright citizenship. I feel strongly that being born in the US should automatically make you a citizen. I am afraid that if this was rescinded it would lead to a slippery slope of depriving people of their US citizenship. As for so called anchor babies, give them US citizenship and place them for adoption while deporting the parents. There thousands of people on waiting list to adopt healthy new burns and toddlers.

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    • @Lee15 Then you pay for the illegal kids expenses. It costs over $222,000 to raise a kid from birth to age 18. You are a phony. You only care as long as others are forced to foot the bill. I can hear you squealing now as that illegal mother pops out kid after kid with your butt on the hook for the expenses.

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    • @Lee15 Wow, that’s harsh. Separating families just like the good ‘ol days of slavery. And with the state of adoption in America these days where babies are sold to qualified couples for $10,000 to $15,000 each, you plan could be a boon to the industry.

      There is nothing in the US Constitution that allows “Anchor babies”. The 14th amendment was before immigration policies and intended to insure the rights of US citizens either born here or naturalized as a result of either slavery or being of foreign extraction. There weren’t illegal aliens then.

      Now we have loads of them and they’re sinking the country. The parents should be deported and have the kids go with them. They aren’t citizens either. There is no other country on the planet that calls a child born to illegal immigrants a citizen and many don’t allow you to be a citizen even if you are born there like Japan and German just to name two. In ancient Rome it took a couple of generations to be a citizen.

      I was thirteen when I realized I was a Libertarian and the “open borders” baloney won’t fly as a Libertarian principle when people try to tell me it is. It most certainly is not.

      The Republic, for what it is these days, must stand and if this invasion by illegals continues we will lose the only thing left protecting us, our culture, language and borders.

      I think you should take some time and re-evaluate your position.

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      • @WalMan@Lee15 We will lose the ballot box in the next 30 to 40 years. when that happens it’s all over.

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        • @jjohn@Lee15 The vote is undermined right now. But if the name of the game is for the people of European decent to hold onto the country, that could end sooner than that. However, I don’t think it’s all that important for the Europeans to hold power. What we as a nation needs is to continue to have people where ever they may come from who put America and it’s way of life formost in their hearts and invest in it’s culture instead of the American taxpayer supporting legions of carpetbaggers who have no interest in adopting our culture or staying once they get what they want.

          I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s all over though.

          The fact of the matter is that the face of the continent is changing. The old European guard is being “out birthed” by the waves of immigrants both legal and illegal. It won’t be long. When we’re gone, American is going to be quite a different place and I can only hope that the work we do today can help preserve life, liberty and the individual pursuit of happiness for the next generation regardless of their original ethnic heritage.

          By giving these peoples a pass into the country without paying their dues, waiting their time or doing the years of work that it previously took to become a US citizen, well we aren’t getting Americans anymore, we’re getting opportunists. If anybody can become a citizen just by stepping over the line then what’s the use of being a citizen in the first place? Citizenship will lose all meaning and when that happens, so will the United States.

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        • @jjohn We have already lost it…This “power” given to the President over the Christmas/New Year vacation and signed into Law…which he wasn’t going to do…and wouldn’t use it if he did sign it…Yeh right… There has been nothing that Obama has said he would or would not do that he hasn’t lied about. Why should this POWER that he now holds be any different” We who speak out against tyranny and ALL who are running for Political Office are now able to be classified as “terrorists” at Obama’s discretion…no recourse. And THAT is the consequence of allowing what has transpired through the average Citizen of this Country not understanding what a “natural born Citizen” really is, not adhering to The Constitution and ALLOWING these “cancers” to proliferate and destroy us from within.

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        • @WalMan@Lee15 What I fear is the Pro-Mexican socialist agenda. Look up La Raza. I think they even advertized during the super bowl last year. Our children will be powerless to determine their futures once we lose control of the ballot box to a Pro-Mexican Pro-socialist electorate. California is already lost. But we can stop this from happening to other states if we act now! People have to get informed. The ignorance of the facts is what will cause this nation’s downfall.

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    • @Lee15 I guess you would have to research the intent the founders had by reading federalist papers and such. And also take that amendment and break it up and see what each piece means. Things like …”subject to the jurisdiction” . Things people dont like to research much. But its very interesting.

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    • @Lee15 Totally against this.. in my opinion a nation with an explosion in the pop. of orphans is worse than a nation with (mostly) hard working law abiding immigrants taking care of their own children.

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  19. When I started out posting and I got a message in my email and clicked reply , it would bring me right to that reply. It seems it is no longer doing that and I end up at the beginning again. So please bare with me while I try to figure this out…lol.

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  20. micka I got your last message in my email. Good to see your well. I havent retired yet and doubt if Ill be able to any time soon. Ive been laid off so many times for so long I had to dip into my 401k which is looking very sad now. But I think I would rather walk off into the wilderness and croak before I see the nation keep heading in the same direction. We cant handle the massive debt now matter who claims its helping them. We are simply crashing. I seriously believe Ron may be the last chance to start again and try working our way backwards. That would by no means be the end. Its the beginning and the fight against a massive war and welfare machine is just overwhelming. But Ill spend my end fighting it if I have to.

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    • Forgive me, I will NOT be able to retire.

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      • @CarolFryer you should have become a high school teacher in Naperville, IL. They work an average of 171 days per year and, as long as they have their masters and have worked 30 years and are 55 years of age, some are retiring on over $100,000 annually. That $100,000, BTW, is in addition to anything they saved on their own. The Unions will tell you they put that money aside on their own, because the union takes out about 10% and puts that into their retirement fund. But that is garbage as teachers pay no Social Security tax and they are making huge salaries. Again, they work an avg of 171 days per year! All summer is vacation. All in the name of educating our kids. What suckers parents are.

        Or, try a Fireman or Police Officer. Retired from California municipalities at age 50 or 55 and making 75k annually. These are healthy grown men and women looking to suck on society’s breast for perhaps another 50 years of their lives — while , of course, those that pay those retirement benefits continue to work into their later years with no relief in site.

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        • @CarolFryer oh, I forgot to mention the 50 year old retired fire chief in s. california making over $150,000 annually.

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        • @jjohn Imagine and many of our kids still cant read when they leave school. Thats sad that we pay them so much. My son is special needs and when he was in school, I thought the teacher were pretty much worthless. I took him home and started teaching him to read. They forced him back into public school and I lost all progress. Now Im starting all over again. With old fashioned A Becca books phonics. What they have in schools now is trash. And the agendas were just in college when I was younge, now they are in elementary schools and even day care and head start.

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