Civil Liberties

637 Responses




Would you want to live in a world where everyone knew everything about everyone?

And in case you’re wondering, that’s not where we’re headed. Instead, we’re blindly marching towards a dark future where the government knows everything about you but you know nothing about the government.

Remember the media’s hysterical outcry when Obama’s passport details were illegally accessed during the Democratic primaries in 2008? The fact that the privacy of regular citizens is routinely subjected to much more serious abuse was conveniently ignored.

The “Patriot” Act, which was supposed to fight terrorism, allows the government to snoop on average citizens, obtain nationwide search warrants without local judicial oversight, monitor private Internet usage (that includes our emails and surfing habits), search our homes and offices without our knowledge, and force libraries and bookstores to turn over our reading records.

There is no financial privacy left in this country. Banks have become a one stop shop for overzealous government snoops and other privacy violators, and we’ve been working overtime to impose our paranoid “Know Your Customer” standards on the rest of the world.

Medical privacy has deteriorated in a similar manner. Our medical records are being transcribed in India and insurance companies and other entities have the right to access our medical history any time they choose.

Ron Paul is one of the nation’s foremost defenders of our privacy. He keeps fighting against misguided Know Your Customer rules and the misnamed “Patriot” Act.

Join the Ron Paul Revolution and help us rebuild a nation where our right to be left alone has priority over the government’s desire to know everything.


637 responses to “Civil Liberties”

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    The National Security Act of 1947 came way before the Patriot Act and already allowed the government to do basically anything it wanted.

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  16. Tina

    The patiot act `may have been signed in after 911 but it existed before that, I believe it was intended all along and after the tragedy of 911 it was perfect timing. The national id card is nuts!!! TSA is a complete invasion of privacy, talk about stripping you of your rights, this is tyranny!! I cannot bnelieve their are people out their in this country who do not have a problem with this. All I hear form them is “well it is for our security and well being”. The governments role is to babysit and be your big daddy? but send troops all over the world to fight in usless wars that only serve a few profteers and the Military industial complex. Who would have imagined that it would come to this? I guess those guys who wrote the constitution did.

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  17. Candice Baron

    The media does not always tell us the truth and does not always let us know everything about a particular topic or issue or crisis. Who trusts and believes anyone anymore? If we can not trust then we can’t forge together for needed changes to improve ourselves our economy or our country. I trust that Ron Paul will uphold our constitution and with that we will be more free and our trade and everything will be better. Where did the money for the solar factory all go? You really believe that they can only make one kind of thing there? You really believe that they don’t have to pay back what they borrow? You really believe that they could not retrofit the factory to be used for other products or sell the property to regain some of the money? More no information for us and some money gone to where we really don’t know. We are tired of this story aren’t we? Ron Paul for President– opens a new era of financial stability more freedom and liberty and less money just plain gone. They take away your individuality your liberty your communications your arms your property your money and all you are left is a slave like a robot like everyone else with no opportunities to ever move up. They tell you lies because if it is not the whole truth or just a partial truth it is a lie. The solar thing sounded good more energy savings less dependence on foreigners oil and products — but that is not what happened is it? More deception and lies. Where are our solar products that most people can understand and use and afford that help us save money on our bills at our little homes and condos and apartments? All this money but we have nothing? You have got to be kidding me! Ron Paul for President the only one who tells the truth whether anyone likes it or not.

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  18. NanC
  19. TheStepfordHusband

    The government likes to spy on people? look, the WTC was attacked then collapsed and those who decided to go to war, invaded a country not involved with Osama Bin Laden, he was found not even in Afghanistan but Pakistan. Look up the “Yellow Cake Forgery” to learn that not only did the previous administration (Bush) LIE but made false documents to use as evidence in the war. I am not a huge huge fan of Republicans blaming the poor or welfare recipients for national debt, when it cost trillions to invade other territories, nor are tax breaks a benefit always, take for instance Verizon, it made 32.5 Billion in 3 years, was allowed 1 Billion in concessions, do you know how much that company paid in corporate taxes? ZERO. Not a penny. So the federal government invades other countries, troops loot area’s, it costs trillions, they make the poor, poorer, by cutting programs making the poor guilty which could lead to suffering, crime, illness and various other social problems, but a multi billion dollar business doesn’t have to pay taxes? Isn’t Republicanism supposed to support small businesses???? I guess all those Democrats turned Republican have flipped the party as well and now Democrats are more pro small business.
    Citizens United another new passage in government-it now allows corporations to act as people, never mind voters rights or someones boss at work deciding how its employee’s should vote or that many multi-national corporations were sold years agot o foreign interest but based in the U.S. and due to a loop hole thos eforeign interests can now funnel money into public American elections.
    Not impressed with Republicans at all or their use of manipulations come election time, tapping into personal matters such ones sex life, the birth canal and so forth to control voters sensibilities.

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  20. Candice Baron

    please find that we are guilty of paying for we know not what? Ron Paul for President of our USA! And please stop and do not put a chip in anyone who does not want one? This is what this is leading to anyway— like we are all uncontrolled criminals and need to be monitored all the time? If I am wrong someone please convince me otherwise. Not a criminal and do not desire to be treated as such! I guess I am getting old but it seems that all these regulations and fees and certifications and taxes and franchises and insurance and more rules that cost money are keeping folks from being and doing all they could. Now you need certified and background checked and drug tested and God only knows what else to do just about anything. Does that mean we really get any better service or it is just mostly pay money? Soon you will need certified and a license to do dog walking or watering your neighbors plant while they are on vacation? ( And don’t forget you have to have that background check AGAIN and fingerprinted and chip too). At least most of the time we can still say what we want to no matter how incorrect or correct we are. Soon you will need a six year degree and three background checks and three urine and blood tests and a chip and fingerprints so you can pick up garbage for a living. Almost there now are we not? We have to vote for the very best for us not against us. It is our hope!

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  21. Northern Observer

    If the U.S. is going to remove twenty million illegal immigrants from the country within a short period of time (say two years), it will have to suspend civil liberties. There is no way that this many people can be given the benefit of legal process. The expulsion process will by necessity be arbitrary and at times brutal. The requisite legislation will make the Patriot Act in comparison look like the Magna Carta.

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    1. Candice Baron

      I think people thought that the illegal people were taking their jobs and not paying taxes and they were afraid of them and with the 911 awfull thing– they thought the Pariot Act was a good thing. But look at what it has become. It is going too far and there is still a threat of terror with or without it. Please do write more as I learn from this so much. It is good to know that someone is out there who is thinking something like I do. Ron Paul for President.

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  22. Michael Herman

    Yes, keep the government out of our private lives! STOP TRYING TO VIOLATE THE 4TH AMENDMENT AND LEAVE ABORTION ALONE.

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    1. Angie

      Why is abortion so important to you? To manage the world’s population? Or are you a fan because it’s a get-out-of-jail-free-card for men, enabling them to to dodge the consequences of their own actions?

      Or are you naive enough to think that abortion is somehow integral to women’s rights? I hate to break it to you, but abortion has failed to break the glass ceiling…

      I am so sick of feminism being equated with abortion and I’m so sick of people refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Adults, even children, know that sex has consequences, one of which is pregnancy. And that’s where the true choice begins.

      Don’t want a baby, get on the pill. And save me the crap about how unaffordable it is. It’s less than $10 per month at Planned Parenthood – no insurance required. Even poor people blow more than that each month on useless crap. If you’re unlucky and those consequences befall you despite taking precautions, then deal with it. Adoption is always an option.

      The psychological, and sometimes physical, ramifications of having an abortion are deep. And those ramifications are usually carried solely by the woman who chose to have an abortion. Men should hold their opinions on the matter unless they are fighting for the preservation of life on moral grounds or for fathers’ rights to prevent their unborn children from being aborted. (Funny how no one ever seems concerned with the latter.) Otherwise, I can’t help but think you’re looking for a free pass on child support for the next 18 years.

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      1. Evelyn

        Just because I have sex and something unexpected happens does not mean that I should have to be forced to raise a child for the next 18+ years. It is my choice to decide if I want to abort, give it up for adoption or raise a child. Angie what you choose to do with your child is your choice, what I choose to do with mine is my choice. I’m also sick of these women living in poverty with 3-4 kids depending on EVERYBODY ELSE (i.e. taxes) for their WIC, food stamps, and welfare. I bet the women in those situations would have had a far better life had they gotten an abortion. The statistics on children growing up in poverty and foster care are irrefutable in terms of criminal activity, lack of education, and falling into the same situation as their parents.

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        1. Chris

          Evelyn, I believe the real reason why abortion should be illegal is because human life is precious and incredible. How can we advocate taking care of one another and ending unnecessary war and violence when we are KILLING OURSELVES back here at home? How can we punish those who violate one’s right to life (liberty and the pursuit of happiness) and then destroy young, defenseless life behind closed doors? My argument is not about limiting women rights or anything related to it, but its about saving ourselves from destroying our own morals that it is wrong to kill another human.

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        2. Tina

          I agree with you, every individual should have the right to make his/her own decisions. Ron Paul will not take that right away from you, he may not be for obortions but he does not believe in telling you what to do, your own moral code will tell you that. Extreme Conservative Christians have really done a bad job in this country of showing compassion for others, they seem to preach something but with no connection to Jesus Christ and the word of God, they preach everything Jesus did not, though tyhey may think themselves real Christians their resentment toward certain groups of people show otherwise and they are very big on social class,they love following the money trail, they are scarey.. I have seen this and experienced it so I know what Im talking about. The True Christians that I know and respect care for others, do not judge but try to help instead and are not waiting in the wings to stone someone. Your body is your body, you have the right to choose, it is your entitlement to make an important decision like obortion, it is not an easy one but it is yours to make.

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      2. JimitheBold

        Excuse me, but the act leading up to an abortion is just as much the woman’s responsibility as the man’s (except in cases of the rape of a woman, obviously) you claim abortion is a “get out of jail free card” for men, but it saves women just as much, if not more trouble.
        In regards to the relevant topic, please keep the government out of my business! Give me my liberties, I’ll keep myself safe.

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  23. PeoplePower

    Draconian plan to switch off social networks & phone msg’s in times of crisis fyi …

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  24. Candice Baron

    Ron Paul for President. We needed this along time ago. He knows what to do about alot of our problems and understands that we don’t want another television President. He defends our Constitution and understands it. We have too much debt too much government and rules, regulations and fees and fines– (and we have no privacy) We pay our taxes and we get little or nothing in return that we see or know about? Audit the FED reform our taxes and vote for Ron Paul for President and we will be on the road to a much better USA. Tell the people that think we are ok like we are now to look at Greece (I don’t know how but I knew that this was coming because I said about 10 years ago they are going to talk everyone into these 401ks and then the stocks are going to drop and then alot of folks won’t have the money they thought they did. I also said the social security money was not enough and eventually they would run out of money and so by the time I would need or want to retire they would say there isn’t any money. Also I predicted that the gas and oil would be going up and up in price and it really has. So now I predict that if we don’t do anything or get the wrong ones voted in again we are going to look like Greece or worse.) Time mag has a right to print what they want whether I agree with it or not. I do think they could have stirred people up and caught their attention with a better choice of a cover than that. I would hope that they choose better in the future. I don’t think our economy is alive and kicking and I don’t think that anything is going to change much until after the election. Write call your representatives because we need jobs and changes now and soon. They can do what we want and need or we can vote them out.

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  25. momof5

    Well, I hope and pray you get into office Ron and they havent messed things up so bad that you cant fix in your term time. But If Obama can screw things up as bad in term I guess you’ll have time to fix a few.
    I pray for your protection and victory Ron Paul. God knows if the Gov. sees you as a threat when they see you becoming popular on line they may seek to do you harm. If you dont get in office soon I fear the same fate of our nation as is going on in the middle east. Nation wide riots from fed up people.
    The nerve of them to rape our nation and throw it to liars and thieves and use the money they stole from us for private interest monopolies and control methods to keep us under their thumb. Makes me sick, but your a hero in our eyes and a hope for tomorow!

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  26. Mark

    Heya guys. When i was a kid, me and my gramps used to hop on our ATV’s drive 5 miles through the woods to a place next to the river. Build a fire, catch fish, camp, float on innertubes, and just enjoy nature.. since then, the gov. has used the trails that all of us ATV riders opened up with backwork, and sweat, shovels and chainsaws, and turned it into a hiking trail. Afterwards, they ruled that you can no longer build a fire next to the river. a few months later, Atv’s were banned from the trail, then Camping next to “Their” trail (which goes right along the river) was made illegal and fineable up to 400$. now, Just a few months ago, Innertubes were banned as a river floatation device, It has to be a raft. The government here has taken my entire childhood, and denied me the opportunity to share it with my son. Its a sad day when simple pleasures such as these go up in smoke because someone in office decides things should be a certain way. If we don’t stop the Federal government from encroaching in every aspect of our lives, pretty soon, we will all be riverless, Tubeless, Fireless, campless people that has had our Hard work hi-jacked and used for government benefit… O wait… its already too late. Now we need to fix it… Ron Paul 2012!

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  27. Candice Baron

    Thus another reason why we need Ron Paul for our President. People who take this snooping thing too far may find that they are the ones in trouble for leaking information and or disregarding our constitutional rights. How about the people who snooped and now they seem to be in trouble for it right now? Us citizens need our time and money for work for gasoline for insurance and our families and homes and businesses not trying to “defend “ourselves and prove ourselves all the time. Look at the legal problems and expenses this Patriot Act is causing.Where are all the bad guys they are catching with all the snooping? Maybe there are some that we don’t know about here. Are some of the ones snooping bad guys? How can you tell? and do you even know that they are snooping?

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  28. Beatrice Smith

    “We the People”!!!!

    Who remembers it?

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  29. sally

    Some words stand forever, and to many Americans they will forever matter!

    “The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.” — Samuel Adams

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  30. jesseO

    Please call and e-mail to protest the proposed Time magazine printing
    on the cover of their magazine
    for the July 4, 2011 edition a photo of the US Constitution being shredded with
    a heading, “Does It Still Matter?”
    This is the most disgusting betrayal to the American people I have ever
    witnessed. Please protest this foul cover going to print.
    I hope this magazine goes out of business in America!

    Let Richard Stengel (editor at Time Magazine) know what you think.
    Email him at the following address:
    letters@time.com
    While your at it, maybe you can give Time Customer Service a call
    and express your sentiments:
    1-866-550-6934.

    http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/forum/topics/time-magazine-july-4-edition?commentId=2600775%3AComment%3A4421651&xg_source=activity


    

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    1. karenT

      What! Time magazine should be shredded!
      It’s disgraceful!
      How can this company call itself American!
      This is the first US company which deserves to be shipped overseas to a country
      without personal civil liberties; let them take their pick!
      They will never see another dime of my support for their magazine if this cover or article goes to print!

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    2. JohnT

      Who cares what the article says! Don’t buy trash with this level of treason on its cover! Richard Stengel should end up finding himself in a new job in a place without any constitutionally-guaranteed personal freedoms, and get back to the rest of us about what it’s like living there! If you’re asking the question, “Does It Still Matter?”, why doesn’t Time magazine find out just how much tyranny might still matter too to those living under it? Maybe then, Stengel and Time magazine will understand that the US Constitution does matter, always has mattered, and always will matter to those of us who love liberty!
      Time magazine deserves to go out of business in the US!
      Let them print their treasonous trash in a place that already shreds liberty!

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      1. Paul

        Let’s hope Time magazine’s provocative AND traitorous cover of the US Constitution being shredded with the heading, “Does It Still Matter?”, will have plenty of “blowback” on Time magazine!

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    3. mark971

      Maybe Jesseo this is to open the eyes of the American people to actual think and take notice this is happening. This is just another plow by mainstream news to suppress the article what is the article about did anyone read that yet? This is just showing you that the President doesn’t care about our constitution, even though he used to teach about the constitution. Why would you not want to know how and who is making these ridiculous decissions of war and hatred. It is time the world sits down and decides where we go from here, we are in a critical time right now with the world economy not just ours is failing and needless death are accurring. We have the resources for everyone to have a home and food to eat, but this would mean everyone would have to actually help. We have the resources to produce great things but what hold us back is the all mighty dollar. We have the technology to clean water naturally, we also have the technology to put solar panels on the moon then microwave the energy back to earth, we could also go as far as using Tesla’s design for wireless electricity. The thing holding all this back is money. How much oil would we save by installing every roof with solar panels and make a house electrically sustainable? Why isn’t government land being given to Americans to plant food and raise animals? Why are we wasting billions rebuilding bridges and roads instead of rebuilding our rail system which used to run through every downtown. Why must every American still have to have their own vehicle, just imagine saving $20,000 on a car and not having to put $100 in the gas tank a week but buy a train pass for $35 a week. With the reduction of just one million cars how much oil would we save and for how much longer would this energy last? These should be the issues we are considering not the production to keep sucking the money from us.

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      1. tom

        I’m tired of the US Constitution being trashed by elected governmental officials including US Presidents, let alone Time magazine doing their own version of shredding it! Maybe Time magazine hopes to goad people into buying their article, but I am more disappointed than curious! I agree with the above reviewers; write an article about the US Constitution still being the critical component for personal civil liberties, and people will read it! Will Americans need to actually LOSE their own civil liberties before they value them? Standing idly by while Time magazine shreds them is NOT the way to gain support for liberty! We may just wake up in a country that we have deserved – one we allowed to be robbed from us! Civil liberties are precious, not trashable. It doesn’t really matter who is doing the trashing!
        Instead of saying, “Does it still matter?” it should say, “Are WE allowing it be trashed?” Time magazine is part of the problem!

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    4. Washyourhandston

      remember what is on that paper the first Amendment. they are tring to get people to think

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    5. Graduate

      Seems a bit hypocritical to protest that they print that cover in defense of what America stands for. That same constitution gives them right to do just that in the first amendment. Let the magazine take its own heat through low sales after it is printed. Two quotes for regarding how I feel about what TIME is doing:

      “I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it” ~ Evelyn Beatrice Hall

      “The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.” ~Thomas Jefferson

      I don’t like what TIME is doing at all. But I must defend their RIGHT to do it.

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  31. mark 971

    I agree Dr. Paul, every american should be concerned with their civil liberties. Which most Americans forget many great men fought and died to establish and protect against many different problems. This great piece of America is what every other country in the world wishes they had the Constitution which entitles us to these liberties. It protects us from a tyranic government by giving us certain great things, the right to keep and bear arms as our founding fathers knew would be a good thing as it gives the states a right to a militia, it also protects us from our own government. They knew that there was a chance our government would be taken from with in, another reason they gave us this right. In this document the citizens are warned to keep a close eye on government. The right to peaceful assembly, the freedom of speech, the freedom of travel( which means not allowed to be stopped to show papers), freedom of religion and many more. We need more people to wake up and read this great piece of paper most countries charish and not let them take America from the people who established it. We need to get back to the checking and the balancing and stop making laws revoking many rights and priviledges. We need a serious check on the power our presidents are receiving these days and balance it back to the people.

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  32. Rebecca St-Pierre

    A liberal’s examination of Ron Paul. It is fair, balanced and in no way defensive.
    feel free to read and comment: http://researchedopinion.blogspot.com/2011/05/ron-paul-and-liberalism-in-american.html

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  33. fight4freedom

    It’s this simple, everyone must read 1984.

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    1. Black Order

      As with most typical coercive statists, Ron Paul is FULL of “double-speak”.

      I’m not buying it, and I find it sad that so many are.

      He is the closest thing to a statists acting on behalf of freedom and individual rights, and yet nowhere near close enough.

      Supporting the lesser of a multitude of evils is still supporting evil.

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      1. Jim

        Is there a point in there somewhere? It just looks like a string of non connected sentences. It pretty much says, nothing, zip, nada. If the lesser of evils was the point, isn’t that what we pretty much do every election year?

        Your statement is baseless and pointless. Keep trying.

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        1. Black Order

          Jim – ” Is there a point in there somewhere? It just looks like a string of non connected sentences. It pretty much says, nothing, zip, nada.”

          Okay then, I will elaborate and state my premise since you are unable to extrapolate.

          ~ ” As with most typical coercive statists, Ron Paul is FULL of “double-speak”. ”

          With drugs, it is up to the individual to decide what to do with their own body, but not with abortion?

          Everyone is entitled to freedom and liberty as we are all created equally – except “illegals” and pro-abortionists?

          It’s not right to force someone to pay for another’s healthcare, but it’s okay to force them to keep their fetus or pay this tax or that tax?

          Income tax is wrong, but not all the other forms of legalized government theft?

          Libertarianism supports the the zero aggression principle, so Dr. Paul is in concert with Libertarian beliefs when he advocates FORCING a woman to come to term.

          etc…etc…etc….

          ~ ” I’m not buying it, and I find it sad that so many are.”

          There are so many people being suppressed by their statist tyranny, that they’re desperate to believe in someone that will free them. And yet they turn to the same thing that has brought them such misery(state coercion), neglecting to see the obvious contradictions in the philosophy of their supposed savior.

          …even fiercely defending him against clear and concise undeniable logic highlighting the fallacies in his mantra, all because they simply don’t want to believe otherwise.

          Jim – ” If the lesser of evils was the point, isn’t that what we pretty much do every election year?

          Exactly! – so why continue to accept evil at all?

          ~ ” He is the closest thing to a statists acting on behalf of freedom and individual rights, and yet nowhere near close enough.

          Supporting the lesser of a multitude of evils is still supporting evil. ”

          Almost everyone that claims to represent US Citizens, their constipation…errr…umm …constitution, their freedoms, rights, etc.. are COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT AND HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO EARTHLY IDEA WHAT FREEDOM AND LIBERTY ARE EVEN ABOUT.

          Ron Paul on the other hand, APPEARS to have a slight inclination to actually get it, but still advocates coercion and violence for sake of an edict.

          This is still evil.

          Ron Paul vs the rest of the ass-hats up there is like trying to decide whether a turd on wheat with cheddar and mayo is better than a turd on rye with swiss and mustard.

          Jim – ” Your statement is baseless and pointless. Keep trying. ”

          Do you get it now?

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          1. Jim

            “…APPEARS to have a slight inclination to actually get it, but still advocates coercion and violence for sake of an edict.”

            LOL, SLIGHT inclination? Have you watched any of the media with him? They keep hammering him about his radical position of being such a STRICT adherent.

            If you listened to him, as far as abortions goes, since that seems to really be your biggest issue. He said he would leave it up to the states to determine if and what laws addressed that issue.

            That is different than saying he would use FEDERAL law to make any kind of ruling either way.

            People fail to understand, they don’t think it out. He is talking about removing the federal government out of our lives, as much as possible. Are we so brainwashed/dependent on our government that we can’t even wipe our noses without their permission or involvement?

            Think outside the box. He is absolutely correct about this being about ideas. Our current notion of real freedom is distorted.

            You know, the way I see it this:

            We have two options:

            1. Vote for one of the mainstream, business as usual candidates, and get exactly what you would expect, the same lies, deceit and fiscal irresponsibility etc.

            2. Vote for Ron Paul and see what happens. We have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. If, he is wrong, and/or just another crony of the system, then nothing changes and we get exactly what we would have, had we voted for any of the other candidates. If, on the other hand, he is right. We have done ourselves and future generations a great favor.

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          2. Jim

            One other thing. You make a big issue out of abortion. Sure, it’s a factor, but considering the fact we are dealing with issues that far surpass the abortion issue in scope and consequences, using that as a ruling factor whether someone is electable or not is ludicrous.

            Gee, I have a paper cut on my finger, and my right arm is cut off. I’m not going to the doctor because I don’t like the band aids they have for my paper cut.

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          3. Black Order

            Jim – ” LOL, SLIGHT inclination? Have you watched any of the media with him? They keep hammering him about his radical position of being such a STRICT adherent.”

            BO – Frankly, I could give a shit less what they think of him. The MSM is FULL of double-speak too. They obviously don’t get it either.

            Jim – ” If you listened to him, as far as abortions goes, since that seems to really be your biggest issue.

            BO – Not really. My issue is that he is a phony, that he is a pseudo-Libertarian preaching pseudo/non-liberty and making it out to be in concert with coercive statist philosophy.

            Jim – ” He said he would leave it up to the states to determine if and what laws addressed that issue. ”

            That is different than saying he would use FEDERAL law to make any kind of ruling either way.

            People fail to understand, they don’t think it out. He is talking about removing the federal government out of our lives, as much as possible. Are we so brainwashed/dependent on our government that we can’t even wipe our noses without their permission or involvement? ”

            BO – How is state coercion for sake of an edict any different than centralized coercion for sake of an edict?

            Does the definition of coercion change depending on which imaginary lines it is used within?

            Jim – ” Think outside the box. ”

            BO – Indeed I do as the box is representative of boundaries and limitations, a prison.

            Jim – ” He is absolutely correct about this being about ideas. Our current notion of real freedom is distorted. ”

            BO – Agreed 100%.

            Hence my frequent message of freedom and attempt to enlighten others.

            We free individuals are in the fight of our lives – A war of idealism.

            Jim – ” 1. Vote for one of the mainstream, business as usual candidates, and get exactly what you would expect, the same lies, deceit and fiscal irresponsibility etc.

            2. Vote for Ron Paul and see what happens. We have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. If, he is wrong, and/or just another crony of the system, then nothing changes and we get exactly what we would have, had we voted for any of the other candidates. If, on the other hand, he is right. We have done ourselves and future generations a great favor. ”

            BO – OR…

            3. Don’t vote for any of them as voting only lends legitimacy to coercive, violent, corrupt, and fallacious “representative” governance.

            The answer is to disengage the coercive system, deny it’s legitimacy.

            Starve the beast.

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          4. Jim

            “The answer is to disengage the coercive system, deny it’s legitimacy.

            Starve the beast.”

            So, let me get this right. Your solution, to fix the problems we face, is to do….NOTHING?!

            Are you out of your mind? Doing nothing, is what got us here in the first place. We failed as a people to keep vigilant and safeguard our freedom. Not completely our fault, we have been duped several times.

            I have no love of politicians, not at all. You say he is false. On what do you base that? He has been saying the some thing for 30 years, DESPITE ridicule, DESPITE the apathy of the American people.

            I am sorry, there is no logic in your arguments. Plus, you only make statements with no real substance or fact, merely your opinion. That is ok, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you fail to move me at all.

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          5. Black Order

            Jim – ” So, let me get this right. Your solution, to fix the problems we face, is to do….NOTHING?! ”

            BO – Incorrect. That is not what I said. You misunderstood.

            I advocate disengaging from the system, to longer support it in any way as your support through voting and taxes, etc. is what gives it legitimacy and allows it to continue.

            What I am advocating is free people in mass refusing to be slaves, and doing so through non-aggression…until, of course, we are forced to defend ourselves against violence by a coercive government that demands our compliance with a gun.

            Jim – ” Are you out of your mind?”

            BO – No. I am of VERY sound mind, and quite intelligent, “gifted” in fact.

            Jim – ” Doing nothing, is what got us here in the first place. Doing nothing, is what got us here in the first place. We failed as a people to keep vigilant and safeguard our freedom. Not completely our fault, we have been duped several times.”

            BO – I agree somewhat, and would argue that what got ‘us’ here is complacency against tyranny and ignorance of a definitive understanding and respect for natural rights and personal responsibility as it relates to freedom.

            Jim – ” I have no love of politicians, not at all. You say he is false. On what do you base that? ”

            BO – I already covered that. Pay attention. Is there perhaps something you’d like me to elaborate a bit more on?

            Jim – ” He has been saying the some thing for 30 years, DESPITE ridicule, DESPITE the apathy of the American people. ”

            BO – Exactly. He is consistently inconsistent.

            Jim – ” I am sorry, there is no logic in your arguments. Plus, you only make statements with no real substance or fact, merely your opinion. ”

            BO – Keep thinking, ask questions, or state your claim and lay your premise to the contrary.

            Jim – ” That is ok, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you fail to move me at all.

            BO – Indeed we are all entitled to our opinion as well are free individuals.

            But it is not my opinion when someones contradicts their own logic and principles. It is simple observation.

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          6. Jim

            So, I looked up your whole statist thing. I presume you are anti-statist, but which version? There seem to be a lot of forms. Don’t answer, I really don’t care.

            “I advocate disengaging from the system, to longer support it in any way as your support through voting and taxes, etc. is what gives it legitimacy and allows it to continue.”

            Uh, I’m ok with the current system as long as it works like it was intended. Not it’s current bloated version.

            Jim – ” I have no love of politicians, not at all. You say he is false. On what do you base that? ”

            “BO – I already covered that. Pay attention. Is there perhaps something you’d like me to elaborate a bit more on?”

            No, you didn’t, you made a statement:

            “Not really. My issue is that he is a phony, that he is a pseudo-Libertarian preaching pseudo/non-liberty and making it out to be in concert with coercive statist philosophy.”

            Where is your proof? On what do you base this? I can say the moon is made of green cheese, does that make it true?

            Good luck with your views.

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          7. Jim

            “What I am advocating is free people in mass refusing to be slaves, and doing so through non-aggression…until, of course, we are forced to defend ourselves against violence by a coercive government that demands our compliance with a gun.”

            Missed this part in one of the earlier posts of yours.

            Until of course, we are forced to defend ourselves…
            What a cop out. All about non force….UNTIL you are forced to. FAIL

            You blew your whole theory right there. Bye bye.

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          8. Jason

            Black Order

            What a dumb ass you are

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          9. Amanda

            Black Order, Using your logic on allowing abortions, that women should be able to do what they want with their own bodies, then shouldn’t women also be able to murder other people whenever they please as well. When she swung the axe and it hit his neck, she was just exercising the right to use her arms and hands in any way that she choose. The fact that the axe hit and killed the man is irrelevant. She was just moving her body the way she wanted at the time. It was his fault that he was in the way. Doesn’t she have the right to hold whatever object she wants in her hands and move her arms the way she wants to? It is her body afterall and how dare the government tell her that she can’t move it that way when she wants to. Right? It’s such a slippery slope.

            Did you know that science has proven that an unborn baby at 20 weeks gestation can feel pain, possibly even more intensely than an adult? This is because at 20 wees the unborn baby has fully developed his/her body’s pain network – the spino-thalamic pathway. However, his/her higher level pain-modifying system has barely begun to develop. This places the baby at a particularly vulnerable stage for pain. And did you know that at 8 weeks gestation an unborn baby reacts to stimuli, including touch? It’s so much easier to think of an unborn baby as an inanimate object because you can’t see the baby yet, isn’t it? But, you’re deceiving yourself. Just because you can’t see or hear the baby while it’s in the womb doesn’t mean that he/she can’t feel, think or be “alive”.

            An unborn baby at 20 weeks gestation “is fully capable of experiencing pain. … Without question, [abortion] is a dreadfully painful experience for any infant subjected to such a surgical procedure.” — Robert J. White, M.D., PhD., professor of neurosurgery, Case Western University

            If you want to be truely educated on a subject you need to research both sides. You can’t just look for facts that defend your own side. So do the research and look at all the evidence before deciding what is right and wrong. The pro-choice stance is a selfish one, unless abortion is necessary to sustain the life and health of the mother (unfortunately we sometimes we have to choose between the lesser of two evils). Maybe look at the sientific findings reported in these publications before declaring that you know pro-choice is the right choice:

            L. B. Myers, et al., “Fetal endoscopic surgery: indications and anaesthetic management,” Best Practice & Research Clinical Anaesthesiology 18, 2 (2004): 231-258.

            R. Gupta, et al., “Fetal surgery and anaesthetic implications,” Continuing Education in Anaesthesia, Critical Care & Pain 8, 2 (2008): 71-75.

            K.J. S. Anand and P.R, Hickey, “Pain and its effects in the human neonate and fetus,”New England Journal of Medicine 317, 21 (1987): 1321-1329.

            S. Vanhalto and O. van Nieuwenhuizen, “Fetal Pain?” Brain & Development 22 (2000): 145-150.

            S. H. Simons and D. Tibboel, “Pain perception development and maturation,” Seminars on Fetal and Neonatal Medicine 11 (2006): 227-231.

            R. Brusseau, “Developmental Perpectives: is the Fetus Conscious?” International Anesthesiology Clinics 46, 3 (2008): 11-23.

            C. Williams, “Framing the fetus in medical work: rituals and practices,” Social Science & Medicine 60 (2005): 2085-2095.

            C. L. Lowery, et al., “Neurodevelopmental Changes of Fetal Pain,” Seminars in Pernatology 31 (2007): 275-282.

            R. Gupta, et al., “Fetal surgery and anaesthetic implications,” Continuing Education in Anaesthesia, Critical Care & Pain 8, 2 (2008): 71-75.

            Also, the following website lists quotes on fetal pain from notable medical publications and studies http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com/fetal-pain-the-evidence. I’m sure there are other great websites that this list information as well.

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        2. Jim

          Oh, and one other thing. Why the hell are you even here if you don’t like the guy? Could it be, that certain people don’t like his ideas? Perhaps they have people come in here and try to ‘muddy’ the water? Are certain interests feeling threatened?

          The heat is on.

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          1. Black Order

            Jim – “Are certain interests feeling threatened?”

            BO – Quite being paranoid.

            Jim – ” Why the hell are you even here if you don’t like the guy?

            It’s not that I don’t like him. Even good people are capable of evil acts.

            If he is elected as your president because so many people buy his pseudo-libertarianism, it will effect me as well because I happen to be born and live within the imaginary lines defining the USA.

            I have a stake in this too.

            I have the natural right to free speech.

            Jim – ” Perhaps they have people come in here and try to ‘muddy’ the water? ”

            BO – I can’t speak for “they”, but rather only myself. And I am only trying to clear the muddy waters, to break people of their rationalizing double speak, pseudo-libertarianism, and unwitting slavery.

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          2. Jim

            Well, I’ll tell ya what. From what I have seen, this guy is our best solution at present. He says exactly the same stuff I have been saying for years. I am not sure I agree with everything, still digesting some of the implications, but in general, he is on target.

            He is the ONLY one tell the truth.

            He is sincere, and I think I am a pretty good judge of people most of the time. It’s in their eyes.

            I certainly DON’T like the CURRENT situation, and his answers to them are right on, as far as I am concerned.

            Can he walk on water? I doubt it. Is he better than the rest of the candidates? Hell yeah.

            I am fed up with the fed and the fiction created around it.

            Even if I believed in your idea of government, his version, is a hell of a lot closer to it than the one we have now.

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          3. Jim

            “And I am only trying to clear the muddy waters, to break people of their rationalizing double speak, pseudo-libertarianism, and unwitting slavery. ”

            And replace it with what?

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          4. Black Order

            Jim,

            We’re all fed up with it.

            I will concede that he is a step in the right direction, but only a tiny and grossly inadequate baby-step, in my opinion.

            Jim – ” Even if I believed in your idea of government, his version, is a hell of a lot closer to it than the one we have now. ”

            BO – Lol!

            I am an Anarcho-Libertarian Individualist and Free Market Capitalist.

            My form of governance is one “without rulers”(the word anarchy defined)

            ;)

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          5. Black Order

            Jim – ” And replace it with what? ”

            BO – A definitive understanding of, and respect for, natural rights and personal responsibility as it relates to freedom.

            Live and let Live

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          6. Jim

            Well, I don’t think I agree with your Anarcho-Libertarian individualist and Free Market Capitalist idiom. Who is in charge if you get attacked by another nation? But that’s ok.

            Baby steps maybe, but at least they ARE steps. Some progress is better than no progress.

            And who knows, you might even attain your ideals. You would have a shorter distance to go if he did what he wants. Not perfect of course, but still closer.

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          7. Black Order

            Jim,

            This may help, for it is a good start, and a good reference to understanding the true nature of law and it’s coercion.

            http://www.lexrex.com/informed/otherdocuments/thelaw/main.htm

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          8. Black Order
          9. Black Order

            Here is a good blog from a real smart guy that has a pretty good handle on freedom and liberty.

            You can learn from him(Kent).

            http://blog.kentforliberty.com/

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          10. Black Order

            Here’s another good blog.

            (another Anarcho-Libertarian Individualist Free Market advocate and arguably one of the most intelligent people on Earth. Ask him anything – he likes to teach)

            http://freedomfliesblackflag.wordpress.com/

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          11. Jim

            I read the first section of the first link. Got a question for you.

            Do you believe in the constitution of the united states?

            Sure, it gives powers to the states, but going back to it removes all the federal baggage that has accumulated over the years. You will have more darn freedom than has been seen in a long time.

            Sure, it may not perfectly fit your personal paradigm of freedom, but you would certainly have more freedom by less intervention of the federal government.

            Yes states will still impose their laws, but you have an influence on that. Will things be abused? Probably. All we can do is minimize it.

            Is your system better? Will individuals be able to abuse the system? Probably.

            Human nature is not going to change just because we change our particular political system.

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          12. Black Order

            Jim – ” Do you believe in the constitution of the united states? ”

            BO – There was once a time when I did to the degree of taking an oath and swearing to support and defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And did so in a hostile fire zone.

            But I have since become self aware and enlightened.

            The simple answer is – No, I do not.

            Jim – ” Sure, it gives powers to the states, but going back to it removes all the federal baggage that has accumulated over the years. You will have more darn freedom than has been seen in a long time. ”

            BO – Indeed, returning to the constitution will yield less evil. But since it is the constructs of a government defined, it will inevitably lead to equal tyranny in the future.

            Jim – ” Yes states will still impose their laws, but you have an influence on that. Will things be abused? Probably. All we can do is minimize it.

            Is your system better? Will individuals be able to abuse the system? Probably.

            Human nature is not going to change just because we change our particular political system. ”

            BO – The reason I support a ‘Live and Let Live’ idealism is because it works in favor of human nature as opposed to against it.

            I explained it to “lew” at least reasonably well in the second link I provided.

            (Live and let live is universal, completely neutral, mutually respectful and beneficial for all, the ultimate win/win, the definitive standard of what is ‘ethical’.)

            ~ Oh, and another good site with a lot of really smart and respectful people regularly debating and conversing core values and principles of all things political;

            http://standupforamerica.wordpress.com/

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      2. brandon diaz

        i agree because basically it 1 person representing more than 500,000 people. eventually there should be no federal government then no state government then eventually there will be local governments . hopefully we can get to the point where each individual is there own representative without an need for anything but self governance. But I agree with Ron Pauls message of no force whether he is lying remains to be seen. so dont shit on him yet dont vote for him but until he actually uses force i will support him because after all if people volunteer for a tyrant and they get him then they will feel the burden harder than anyone for being fooled. if he is lying to just become another king of america then it will just enforce his own message . then true people will grow out of the opposition to his lies and hopefully will push for less and less government to the point that any over arching system will be irrelevant

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  34. Robert Steiner

    America! Government wants us to trade our LIBERTY for bread ! Yes there are those who are willing to trade without struggle because they don’t understand FREEDOM and so they are willing to become slaves to the ALL KNOWING and ALL SEEING arrogent self proclaimed demi-gods who”s only TRUE ambition is to hold and maintain for themselves, their own selfish and evil power lust. We NEED Ron Paul and those of our ILK to be strong, to take back what is rightfully ours! Our dignity, Our Pride, Our RIGHTS, OUR COUNTRY,OUR FREEDOM! If we don’t achieve this end and set right what has been wronged, we will indeed ourseleves become the forced partakers of UNCLE SHAM’s BREAD! Our founding fathers warned us of this because they themseleves SUFFERED under the TYRANNTICAL hand of a monarchy that had no compassion for the common man, they in fact were slaves of the THRONE. History is repeating it’s self again and we must act now or we WILL find that we and or our children will be forced into non-peacful means to overcome by anyways nessesary to take back what is Rightfully ours by birth, by the shed blood of our fathers and by our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS that each and every one of us is intitled to under OUR SACRED CONSTITUTION of these here UNITED STATES of AMERICA! Ron Paul, YOU and I, All of us togeather, each and every one of us, by our own rights are GEORGE WASHINGTON. He left us a legacey and blue print of how and when to respond to TYRANY and what EVIL is, He and great men like him and after him have answered to the call when needed. WE ARE NEEDED, WE ARE GREAT MEN AND WEMEN ! IT is now time for us to ACT !

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  35. IWhishIwasAnAmericanSoICouldVoteRonPaul

    I thought this was an interesting reaction:
    “Civil Liberties
    Breathe clean air, drink clean water, grow and eat nutritious natural food on clean land free of toxins, open waters free of toxic chemicals, honor our natural immune systems not pharmaceuticals and vacci-nations. Let’s start there.”

    There sure seems to be a relation between PHYSICAL/ECONOMICAl independency, self-sufficient living etc. and every other form of freedom, including freedom of thought.

    I think one needs to have a certain moral and intellectual independency in order to be able to understand what Ron Paul says. This doesn’t mean that highly educated people will be eager to vote for him, because there is a clear distinction between empty intellectualism & the wisdom of the world and true wisdom, which comes from God. What Ron Pauls preaches is not merely political, it is spiritual as well. Because his ideas radically undermine the modern western consumerist capitalist militairy industrial institutions. His words threaten the elite of the world. Some will say: he poses a threat to the New World Order.

    So what does this mean, the fact that Ron Paul’s ideas can only be understood by independend minds, not just intelectually independend, but morally and spiritually independ as well?

    It means Ron Paul may have a problem. Because how many people DO YOU PERSONALLY KNOW who seem to have some kind of moral independence?

    What about those crowded cities? What about the people living in consumerist cities completely dependend on the capitalist institutions? COmpletely dependend on the system, on the monster?

    President Jeffersion’s “those who labour in the earth” has foreseen this problem:
    the majority of America, living in crowded cities, is completely economically dependend and therefore completely morally corrupted.

    I wish I could believe in the Ron Paul revolution, but I lack the faith, he is too good. He says what is true, and people can’t manage the truth. Not if they’re corrupted.

    I don’t even think Christians will vote for them. The majority of American Christians seems to have some kind of distorted religion which serves capitalism more than it serves Jesus.

    I’m sorry for such a depressed comment, but I think the situation in America and all over the world is very serious.

    That’s why I say: don’t be too optimistic, but be zealous and calculate in advance that the resistance will be HUGE, expect that you, as a Ron Paul supporter, need to be able to ENDURE the resistance and never stop prayer.
    Ron Paul needs a miracle of God in order to convince all those corrupted minds who worship the government and companies, because they give them what they want. Ron Paul needs a miracle in order to convince these people to follow truth and liberty and true morality instead of a corrupted santa claus which gives them everything they desire. How on earth is he going to convince them without a miracle?

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