Ron Paul works towards the elimination of the inefficient Department of Education, leaving education decisions to be made at the state, local or personal level. Parents should have the right to spend their money on the school or method of schooling they deem appropriate for their children.
On November 14, 2008 Ron Paul said in a New York Times interview:
“First, the Constitution does not authorize the Department of Education, and the founders never envisioned the federal government dictating those education policies.
Second, it is a huge bureaucracy that squanders our money. We send billions of dollars to Washington and get back less than we sent. The money would be much better off left in states and local communities rather than being squandered in Washington.
Finally, I think that the smallest level of government possible best performs education. Teachers, parents, and local community leaders should be making decisions about exactly how our children should be taught, not Washington bureaucrats.
The Department of Education has given us No Child Left Behind, massive unfunded mandates, indoctrination, and in some cases, forced medication of our children with psychotropic drugs. We should get rid of all of that and get those choices back in the hands of the people.”
Note: This summary of Ron Paul’s position has been determined to be incomplete! Contact us to join RonPaul.com as a voluntary editor. Help us set the record straight and keep this page up-to-date.
your efforts are remarkable, keep on, it will create great change in education system.
Thanks!!!
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[...] Ron Paul: [...]
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50% of our American people are not functioning at a literate level which means they are unable to read fourth grade level text. This statistic includes people who are graduating now so the Federal Department of Education has done nothing other than give me a pile of paperwork to do for these kids rather than teach them. If I had the time to teach the kids like I know I can rather than fill out paperwork describing what I am doing to try to help them, we would see students who come out of our schools able to read. 90% of people in our prison systems are functionally illiterate. So, is literacy an important issue in our society? We need to make changes which means get politics out of education and let teachers do what they have been trained to do…TEACH!
Sixth Grade Teacher From NC
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I’m sorry, but we do not need to put education in the hands of the states. The more power individual states receive, the more divided as a nation we become!
I do see there are massive interest differences between let’s say for example New York state and Louisiana, but let’s take into account that some states deem some things important based on their economy (education is targeted towards students eventually working, after all).
More so, some states would lean towards a more religious-based schooling system, in particular Christianity. So the student in Louisiana would probably learn more about agricultural-based ideas, a more stern religious influence, and his science class would consist of history based in Christian theology rather than evolution. The Louisiana student would probably also, as a result of a religiously and southern economy-targeted education, be exposed to less diversity (As a system like this would be less family friendly let’s say to American Muslims or Hindus for example). The result of lack of diversity could lead towards a less open-minded population, a sense of “foreignness ” even to those of another culture or skin color living in America, or worse, eventually lead to racism.
And how much more difficult would getting into an out-of-state college would it be, having been taught the “Louisiana way”? Isn’t out of state tuition, differences in curriculum, individual demands, and difference in interest enough as it is?
We, as Americans, members of the UNITED States, I agree, have a flawed system. But the solution is not for the government to turn it’s back on it and leave it to the states. A new system should be fair, free, and balanced all throughout America.
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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There is an irony in your worldview. You value diversity, yet you propose a homogenous education system that would destroy it.
It is also quite an assumption (and possibly an arrogant one) that those in Washington would be the ones best suited to dictate education policy.
No… the best policy is one that required individuals to think — not to complete a checklist.
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I’d like to quote Hard17 from an earlier comment.
“Ron Paul wants to eliminate the Department of Education, If that is done South Carolina will go back to the 1950′s. Changes were only made when they were forced by the Fed to update their system or lose funding. We have some of the lowest ratings in the nation when it comes to education. We cannot afford to go backwards.”
And a homogenous education system is not a destroyer of diversity. It’s common ground and a fair education. Americans should be educated with a system allowing any student to pursue any career in any state, country, or job field without having to account that the quality or aim of their education may be different and/or under the standards for certain qualifications.
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[...] current Congress would undoubtedly approve of the rest of his platform, including privatization of education, the enabling of state-level extremism, cutting Social Security and Medicare, cutting food and drug [...]
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[...] Ron Paul (Gettysburg College B.S., Duke University M.D.) Paul wants to "fix" student loans (potentially by eliminating them), saying these government programs have driven up tuition rates. His rationale is the 1 trillion dollars in debt that are now tied up in student loans. He also proposed cutting the Department of Education. [...]
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[...] Ron Paul (Gettysburg College B.S., Duke University M.D.) Paul wants to "fix" student loans (potentially by eliminating them), saying these government programs have driven up tuition rates. His rationale is the 1 trillion dollars in debt that are now tied up in student loans. He also proposed cutting the Department of Education. [...]
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[...] 09/2008IssuesHonest MoneyForeign PolicyHealth CareIllegal ImmigrationFree TradeTaxesAbortionEducationCivil LibertiesNational ID CardGlobal WarmingWar on DrugsCivil Rights ActEarmark ReformIs Ron Paul a [...]
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I wanted to share something that happened recently that I think illustrates the idiocy of our federal government. In early January, I received a letter from the Census Bureau saying my household was selected to participate in the 2012 National Household Education Survey, conducted on behalf of the U.S. Department of Education. About a week later, I received the survey. The first question asked if anyone in the household was aged 20 or younger. If not, it asked to mark the “no” box and return the survey in the postage-paid envelope. It also included a $5 bill as a token of their appreciation for my participation. It said that after returning the survey, the study would determine if anyone in my household is eligible for the NEXT survey.
First of all, why send a letter telling me they’re going to send a survey? Why not save the expense of the first mailing and just send the survey? And why the second survey? Couldn’t it be combined into one survey? Second, if it’s the Census Bureau conducting the survey, wouldn’t they KNOW that there isn’t anyone in my household aged 20 or younger? Third, if they’re only interested in the opinions of households with children aged 20 or younger, why didn’t they conduct the survey through the schools? Then there’s the $5 “token.” I’d really love to know how many surveys they sent out and how much the whole thing cost the taxpayers. It may not be much in the big picture, but this is an example of the wasteful spending of our government agencies. Multiply this one example thousands of times over and it’s no longer a drop in the bucket. I think there’s a mentality that it’s not their money that’s being spent, or that they have to come up with ways to spend everything in their budget or the budget gets cut. I say cut the entire agency and let things be handled at the local and state levels.
Just my 2 cents.
Highly rated. What do you think?
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This post would make sense if Ron Paul didn’t want to make such huge cuts to military spending.
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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One problem is the shriinking budget for education, i.e. with more people out of work, less is taken in on property taxes and other taxes. They also need to lose the statndardized tests, as kids are studying to pass tests, and necessarily to learn the subject.
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Education doesn’t equal jobs. I know plenty of people who went to college and are far worse off than those who went to trade schools, or no school at all after high school. Increasing money spent on our public indoctrination camps won’t decrease unemployment; in fact, it would do the complete opposite.
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Education = jobs is an uneducated way of looking at eduction.
Education improves every facet of society.
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http://www.littleredumbrella.com/2012/01/lets-be-clear-ron-paul-fucking-sucks.html
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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I would like to say that I am from North Carolina and in our State we had a Satte university and supported it for well over a hundred years before the Pell Grant was introduced by the Federal government. Now in North Carolina our children are being rated very low in education while are universities are still some of the best in the nation our community collage system is the 4th largest in the country. now consider all this and you see North Carolina is failing in education in one area “no child left behind” now i am going to behonest with you we only get 10% of our fuinding from the government but our government is not allowed to support schools with failing standards according to federal polocy now considering this it sounds like that the Federal department of education has applied Sanctions on North Carolina for being the First State in the Nation in Education……why does this sound like a hostile takeover to me?
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Ron,
I like some of your forward thinking intelligent ideas and proposals. Here is one of my own that we must implement sooner than later. American universities are very popular among foreign students. I am telling you this with my own experience. There are many reasons for this. One thing is it is very easy to get into US colleges and universities. Second, the foreigners know that this is the easiest way to get into this country and also a ticket to finding a job in this land of opportunity.
It is time we charge flat USD25, 000 from each foreign student coming to this country to study medicine, engineering and other applied sciences. This money shall put into a fund and improve the science and mathematics education level of students in this country.
We cannot think a brighter future for USA without a generation with strong science and engineering background.
Anush.
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[...] Current Event-http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/education/ [...]
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Ron Paul wants to eliminate the Department of Education, If that is done South Carolina will go back to the 1950′s. Changes were only made when they were forced by the Fed to update their system or lose funding. We have some of the lowest ratings in the nation when it comes to education. We cannot afford to go backwards.
Hotly debated. What do you think?
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I appreciate the efforts made by ronpaul. Thanks for letting it.
http://www.educationrequirements.org/jobs/government-education-requirements
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The presidents of the colleges and the teachers involved in sports are the most over paid people in education
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@Telling the truth Wonder why? Let’s break this down…
Instructors make money. Department heads make more money. Deans make even more. And, finally presidents make the most. With me so far? Sure you are.
Why? Because presidents can’t and won’t be respected by their subordinates if their salaries are less – Human nature.
Sports… now thats a good observation… from afar. Thanks to our need for entertainment and icons, sports bring in quite a bit of money for schools. And, the winning nature of those sports programs determine how much $$$ is awarded for bowls (winning or attending), tournaments, etc. Again, human nature allows this to occur because winning is everything in the business aspect of the world of sports.
Why does one coach of one sport make more than another? Because we allow it to be that way. If we attended Water Polo matches as aggressively as football games, the Water Polo coach would then make more money due to the hype surrounding his/her success.
Want to change the world (of sports)? Go to more Water Polo matches.
…Ok. That’s a bit too far – but, you get the point.
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With the issue on Education. I would like Ron Paul to address why these big universities are paying wages above 350k but can not afford to lower the cost of getting a good education. There is no reason for someone to have a income over 350k a year in education. The GOOD teachers if anyone should be making 200k a year.
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In case you didn’t see this at the top of this sight it says
South Carolina Primary The South Carolina Presidential Primary takes place on Saturday, Jan. 21. It is open to all registered S.C. voters as S.C. does not have registration by party. Mainstream media reports to the extent that S.C. is a “closed primary” are false and should be ignored. passss this on , this is a big deal and should not be ignored.
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After having read the last 20 or so posts I am left wondering how many of you are libertarians, and how many of you are liberal democrats
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@AliciaDunn I’m not sure – half serious and half not I guess…
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President Ron Paul?
http://johnston-sequoia.blogspot.com/2012/01/presi...
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My wife is a teacher. It’s not the feds, but state and local requirements that are the problem. Education gets a lot of its funding from the area the school is in thru property taxes. If it’s a poor area, the schools will not have much to work with. Having to meet “quality requirement” thru mandated testing is also a problem. Education has become more of a babysitting institution instead of an “educattional” one.
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@lucky85 As a parent highly involved with my child education, I agree with most of what you say lucky85. But to say the Feds are not part of the problem, if not perhaps the greatest factor I believe is misleading. Our Fed Gov is too corrupt to be tied into our school funding, as they keep cutting budgets hugely to pay for our very unnecessary wars. California alone has had billions cut within past 3 years. This is not only unwarranted, it’s downright anti-American as a nation’s progress is heavily influenced by its investment in the education of its next generation. Our war spending is taking the USA down under pretense of “fighting for freedom and security” for nothing but war profiteering corporations/Wall st cronies. Also, the Feds let unethical military recruiters onto school sites saying they have right to “if schools get funding from them”. Wrong, nobody has the right to approach our daughters and no less our sons to be asked to do something against their strong morals, against the best interests of our country, and against their human rights.
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@Terri Lynn Sullivan@lucky85 The budget hasn’t been cut, it was pretty stagnant from 09 to 2011, and even when they attempted to cut it, the funds were still appropriated as needed (going over budget). Don’t forget that there was the recovery act in 09 that almost doubled the education budget (which is probably why they remained stagnant those years), and the states are still unable to manage their funds. Look at the stats, the problem is clearly at the state level.
http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/history/edhistory.pdf
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@Ace81@Terri Lynn Sullivan@lucky85 I am aware of those media manipulated “statistics” Ace81, but the fact of matter is the money has not really gone into our schools where it would mean into “education”. It is going into the bottom line of the proverbial “big 4″ standardized test corporations, and the data manipulated to look like we are spending on “education”. Our public school system has become highly privatized, veritable test labs with our children the guinea pigs doing all that testing starting at age 7. Those countries ranked #1 in education (Finland for instance) don’t do any standardized testing until much later, start first grade a year later, don’t “push” their kids so hard with this race to nowhere (American kids extremely smart…I see my third grader doing what my husband and I did in 5th grade and we are a Ph.D. and MBA respectively both having earned high honors) but at what point do kids get burned out they are not robots….and you are misled on budgets into schools. Even our private schools are affected by this as Fed money still goes into scholarships and economy hurting/banks corrupt and foreclosing. Private schools costing parents $20,000 per year for K-8 have gone bankrupt closing down across our nation. I would do more research if I were you…….parents are bringing in basic school supplies even in areas like mine which are highest performing school, upscale area, in nice neighborhood in the hills. We are cutting budgets across all our schools as the Feds spend too much on war/weapons both of which do nothing to protect our “freedoms and security”……anyone that can’t see that is quite negative and in the dark.
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@Terri Lynn Sullivan @lucky85 I love when people (Terri) pretend to have all this information that is unavailable to anyone else. You can go to any dept of education site and see the cost per student increasing every year, the actual cost. I may not agree with the education system as it currently is, but the states are the biggest factor in the way it’s failing, not the feds. We have/had teachers working for free in PA recently. I have plenty of issues with my kids school, but those issues are mostly at the local and state level. I don’t care for the testing, but testing has been going on for decades, so that’s not the core of the problem. Teachers, principals and superintendents are rarely held accountable for failing students, drop-outs, etc. There is too much politics in school districts.
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@Ace81@Terri@lucky85 Ace81, while I commend you on at least attempting to do your homework by “researching” statistics on ” increases per student”, I hate to inform you that the data you are reading on the Dept of Ed website is manipulated and bogus. The DoE is closely linked in with the “big 4″ standardized test corporations, whom profit big time from such “budget increases” the media weary would think goes to the student or classroom. It did not take earning my MBA and 25 years of growing corporate ladder to executive realm to learn that a website is a marketing tool….with content written by savvy marketing people spinning their tails for their specific industry. Can’t tell you how often I spun my own angles on how much better my computer networking gear was over Cisco’s. In the education industry, this manipulated data traces back to Reagon admin, with it’s report “A Nation at risk”, with grossly exaggerated “demise of nation’s schools”-fiery and false rhetoric to drive impetus for more and more standardized testing for profits into those 4 test corporations. It has become over an $600 billion dollar industry at expense to the public schools, the money we are told are “per student” really does not equate to the data you see Anyhow, I write as a hobby on the side, and wrote this piece on NCLB Act which delves into this topic. If interested, read at http://terri-lynn-sullivan.suite101.com/no-childhood-innocence-should-be-left-behind-a363630
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@Terri Lynn Sullivan@Terri@lucky85 lol, you are coming off extremely full of yourself. What in the world makes you so special that only you are privy to the information you so eagerly share? Then you have the audacity to post a link to your own site, after stating that you yourself are in fact a liar and have fudged the truth for the sake of marketing… yeah, you’re a real credible source, smh. You have zero facts to go with your claims. Seriously, just stop.
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@Ace81@Terri Lynn Sullivan@Terri@lucky85 HAHA. I didn’t think Terri came off full of herself, I think she sounds qualified to be arguing the topic if anything. And she didn’t admit to being a liar, she everso honestly admitted to doing her JOB. And how imature to say “what in the world makes you so special?” What a factual arguement you have, Ace81.
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@Idealist92 @Terri Lynn Sullivan @Terri @lucky85 That’s cute, Terri has a cheerleader, better late than never I guess. But, she in fact admitted to lying, you shoukd learn some basic reading comprehension skills. Her whole argument is baded on her opinion which isn’t based on anything that can be proven. There are lots of problems in our schools, the majority due to the mismanagement at the state level. I’ve proven my claims with factual public information, Terri proves her claim with a link to her own blog. You’re both silly.
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Idealist92 Terri Lynn Sullivan Terri lucky85 That’s cute, Terri has a cheerleader, better late than never I guess. But, she in fact admitted to lying, you should learn some basic reading comprehension skills. Her whole argument is based on her opinion which isn’t based on anything that can be proven. There are lots of problems in our schools, the majority due to the mismanagement at the state level. I’ve proven my claims with factual public information, Terri proves her claim with a link to her own blog. You’re both silly.
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@Ace81 Terri… States had their chance to control everything before…. that’s when the civil war broke out because South Carolina attacked Fort Sumter because they wanted to keep people as property…The reason our country works is because we are united… Maybe you need to read some history… there are sooo many instances of why it doesn’t work to have states controlling everything. Education is one.
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@Ace81@Terri@lucky85 Ace81 – It is interesting you blame it on the principals, teachers, and superintendents. Maybe you should delve a little deeper yourself to see that they follow the federal and state guidelines. The real “problems” began with they ability to corporal punishment was no longer an option. Not that this is the end-all answer, but it was certainly a nice alternative if used properly – Used properly being the problem with it altogether.
Now, do you blame the front-line employees of businesses that fail? No, you blame the top-level corporate folks. I am not saying the wheel is completely broken, but the federal and state folks need a good overhauling. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think chopping jobs is always the answer either. Instead, a true checks-and-balances process with the general public would be a good start. As of now, the “show up and vote” is the fallback answer that everyone gives to answer a state or federal crisis. It would be nice to see the politicians answer to a scorecard or some sort of true measurement of their worth to the public.
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@Jeremy ABC @Terri @lucky85 superintendents are getting upward of $150k a year, they are responsible for their districts, any business is only as good as its employees, which is why I mentioned accountabilty for all parties. Mayors are voted in, superintendents are hired and can be terminated. Your argument fails. This is about education, we can speak on corrupt politics all day, but it doesn’t change the need for more accountability from the superintedent on down. Dept of Ed and Mayors have a say in that.
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@Ace81@jeremy@Terri@lucky85 Ace81: You obviously are forgetting that all superintendents work directly for, and salaries are determined by their ELECTED Board of Education. The Board of Education sets policies based on state and federal laws.
Also, state laws have made it quite difficult to simply “let go” of employees without a very long paper trail. So, your argument is heavily flawed and ignorant in theory. If state laws allowed superintendents the true authority to manage people on a short-term and long-term basis, students would then be back and the forefront of education. The way it is now, a good superintendent can be fired quicker than a bad front-line employee.
This is about education, right… that’s an extremely left-winged, libertarian philosophy.
Yes, accountability measures are important and must be in place. That said, I thoroughly believe that state General Assemblies should be ranked nationwide and individuals ranked within their perspective states on a scorecard basis. This is the only true way to provide hard data to voters. Of course, that will never happen because law makers would have to agree to hold their own feet to the fire.
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@Jeremy ABC @jeremy @Terri @lucky85 Thank you for proving you have no idea what you’re saying, and helping my point. The state still has too much control, everything you see wrong is at the state level. And stop acting like my wanting everyone to have the opportunity at a decent education is a bad idea cause it’s a leftist way of thinking. I am not so narrow minded and ignorant to get caught up in predetermined view points set by other people, I believe what I believe based on research and facts. Our department of education is failing at the state level, big part of the reason is because of the inflated salaries and no accountabilty at the state level. The federal mandates need to strictor. We can’t keep allowing states to jeopardize the education of our future leaders because education isn’t a priority to the mayors or governors. The standards should be higher and adhered to nationwide. There needs to be reform nationwide, that can’t be left to the states. Testing needs to change, teaching methods need to change. By the time a teacher has their doctoratd, they understand the different learning styles of students, but by that time, they have already taught 1000s of students. Implement that into the curriculum early on, more children will be engaged. Instead we treat students who “don’t get it” like their dumb, discourage them with isolation, frustrated teachers, bad grades and upset parents, and all it is, is their brains work differently. We force calculus on everyone, limit choice classes that can develop a childs interest and wonder why the drop out rate is so high. States have too much power. They cut classes to provide raises to teachers who aren’t performing well. Per child budget is higher, yet the districts are expecting parents and teachers to supply paper, tissues, hand sanitizer, and more. Federal standards are in place (we need new ones) but the states are the ones responsible for overseeing the districts, they’re failing, and you think it would be best to give them more control, smdh, you’re insane.
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@Ace81@jeremy@Terri@lucky85 Now this is getting comical…
Let’s break you down again -
Ace says, “Thank you for proving you have no idea what you’re saying, and helping my point.”
My Response: What point, you blindly type because you’re just logging a response to a forum thinking you are participating in an “educational” debate. Rather, you’re searching aimlessly for a loophole that isn’t present in my responses. Meaning, you were beaten several replies ago.
Ace says: I am not so narrow minded and ignorant to get caught up in predetermined view points set by other people, I believe what I believe based on research and facts.
My response: You can’t dictate to a forum about your intelligence. It’s obvious that you’re a smart person… just misguided and full of puzzle pieces that aren’t connected fully. Don’t worry, we’ll get it all together for you soon.
Ace says, “Our department of education is failing at the state level, big part of the reason is because of the inflated salaries and no accountabilty at the state level.”
My response: You’re telling us that you believe that people making a certain amount of money (at whatever level YOU determine is too much – please do tell at some point what is too much) automatically is a direct influence on a state’s lack of success?
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@Ace81@jeremy@Terri@lucky85
Now, you’re just burning at this debate and people are laughing at your responses. Let’s get real, if individuals of an industry (no matter what the industry) knew they would never have an opportunity to achieve higher levels of success, they would likely choose a different career path at the very beginning. Just because education is based on tax dollars, it doesn’t automatically mean folks should be compensated competitively. Most superintendents deal work hand-in-hand with CEO’s who make several times over their current salaries. Being that education salaries are publicly displayed, ignorance certainly plays a large factor as folks don’t understand the amount of responsibility outside the day-to-day operations that are placed on superintendents.
Ace says, “The federal mandates need to strictor. We can’t keep allowing states to jeopardize the education of our future leaders because education isn’t a priority to the mayors or governors. ”
My Response: It appears now that you’re against Ron Paul’s stance on cutting the federal guidance on education…? How can we not allow states to ‘jeopardize the education of our future leaders’ when Paul is proposing that we empower states? And, education is a top priority of governors – what rock are you hiding under?
I could go on-and-on, but the rest of your points are idealistic at best. For example, who wouldn’t want a teacher with a doctorate degree in every classroom – but, wouldn’t that just raise the budget through the roof?
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@Ace81@jeremy@Terri@lucky85
Lastly, you say, “Federal standards are in place (we need new ones) but the states are the ones responsible for overseeing the districts, they’re failing, and you think it would be best to give them more control, smdh, you’re insane.”
I never once said I agree with Ron Paul, I just responded to you along the way. That being said, I can’t tell if you agree with him or not at this point because I have spun you in circles on your core-doctrine beliefs on this issue (which I must say I have greatly enjoyed our conversation). Said Federal Standards are new and are just now being implemented nationwide – Common Core Essentials. This is brand-new and may (or may not) be the answer. Again, the state’s lawmakers are the one’s who dictate everything – In accordance with your beliefs, their failing.
One thing we can both agree on is that giving more control to states is not the answer.
I know you’re passionate about this topic and actually knowledgeable. We can all agree that an overhauling is needed, but just cutting an area and calling it fixed is ridiculous. I am not saying that cutting the Dept of Ed is an option, but that would only be the beginning.
Cutting budgets is the name of the game to most people. I believe this to be a terrible approach to education ( in the actual education industry and any other industry for that matter). I don’t believe throwing money at problems is the answer either.
So, the federal and state governments need a complete overhauling in general – with all program areas looked at and realistic approaches and methodologies put in place. It all starts at home. The Home is where we need to begin our overhauling first – Taking a micro approach to the situation expanding outwards to the macro program areas.
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@Jeremy ABC@jeremy@Terri@lucky85 I think the problem is I give you too much credit. How am I beaten by someone who says he agrees with me, yet continues to make pathetic attempts to argue with me? You just want to argue, and you’re not even arguing points I’m making, you’re arguing your own assumptions. You called my response “left-winged libertarian” as if that’s suppose to be an insult, and if that is somehow suppose to undermine my views. Seriously, get over yourself.People making too much money in the education system, without accountability is a problem, not sure how many times that’ll have to be beat into your head. Programs are being cut due to lack of funding, teachers are being laid off, after school programs have virtually disappeared across the nation, all of that leads to less successful schools and it is all caused by the mismanagement of funds. If a person knows they will be getting their raise no matter what and be able to keep their job no matter what, where is the incentive to improve?Superintendents have high education levels and lots of experience, but once again, it means nothing without accountability. If they are actually holding their principals accountable, and principals holding teachers responsible, then the salaries are well deserved, but credentials without accomplishments are worthless.
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@Jeremy ABC@jeremy@Terri@lucky85 I’ve always been against Ron Paul’s stance on Education, you’re the only person who seems to be confused about that, proving my point you have no idea what you’re talking about. As far as doctorates in every classroom, I didn’t say all that, I said incorporate that thinking (teaching based on the different learning styles) into the classrooms early on, once again you are arguing your assumptions, not what I’m actually saying.I’ve never once changed my stance, so I’m not sure how you think you spun me in circles, when the fact is, you’re just talking in circles. Federal regulations have been implemented for years, they are not new, they have been revamped recently but still leave much to be desired as far as accountability and implementation. Enjoy your day, stop wasting your time arguing points I’m not making.
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@Ace81@jeremy@Terri@lucky85 Ace: I am not saying your completely incorrect, but you give no solutions to rectify said problems. Paying superiors less is not a solution. Will it make the public feel better? Sure. But, will it directly improve education? No. That’s just the Marketing side of you “fighting for the people.”
I would rather pay appropriately. Cut salaries that need to be cut and reward successes.
Again, the Accountability measures are determined by the district’s Board of Education – who are ELECTED officials. So, I think we find ourselves posturing over problems, but the real debate is on the solution.
To answer your question about being beaten, you just simply were outdebated. That’s all. That doesn’t make your information or logic incorrect, it just means that I connected by logical conclusion from beginning to end with no loose ends. Don’t get me wrong, I have really enjoyed our conversation and find myself hoping to find a response from you.
So, I ask you this? Let’s put all this aside for a minute and talk about the solution. Ron Paul suggests eliminating the Department of Education. Reading through your responses, I don’t think you agree that giving state’s full control is the answer.
Can you think of possible solutions? An area district near me put everyone on a paid-by-performance program. I don’t know how well it’s working, but it’s a good start.
Thoughts?
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@Jeremy ABC@jeremy@Terri@lucky85 I don’t argue for the sake of argument. I’m above that. I also won’t argue who’s a better arguer, simply because your a novice, and I rather have civil and articulate debates than argue with someone who is in agreement with me. Seriously, what’s your point?
Here’s a few pointers, so that you might actually be able to win the next argument. – Stop arguing points that weren’t made, 99% of the time, when you argue your own assumptions, you’re wrong, and even if you’re right about what they meant, they can twist it to make it seem like that’s not what they meant anyway. Here’s a point I never made, cutting their pay, I never said cut their pay, I said stop giving them raises if their not showing progress. ACCOUNTABILITY- Stop acting like you have a silent audience that is on your side, if they’re silent, they might just be laughing at you. Besides, it’s not a popularity contest, so now, I just want to introduce myself to the voices in your head.
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@Jeremy ABC@jeremy@Terri@lucky85 …- Calling something leftist or right-winged, is not an insult. Most people identify with some liberal point of views, some conservative, some moderate, etc. Just because a certain group agrees with a point of view one may have, doesn’t necessarily mean that person identifies with that group, so you just come off as close-minded, as in, just because “they” agree with it, you have to disagree. – You shouldn’t have expectations of others you don’t hold yourself to. Such as, telling me I offer no solutions, yet I offered more than you.- And learn to admit when you’re wrong rather than make pathetic and childish attempts at saving face. You didn’t realize that Ikime was agreeing with me, not arguing with me, and you jumped into the conversation with your head so far up your ass you missed the fact that on every post I NEVER once contradicted myself, you just didn’t bother to read the previous posts in the conversation to see what was actually going on before you decided to try to attack me.
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@Jeremy ABC@jeremy@Terri@lucky85 http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2009/10/28/americas-dropout-crisis.html Great article, old but still relevant. Drop-out rates are horrible, though it seems there is a nationwide cover up going on because they include people (ages 15-24) who have received GED’s in their graduation rates, rather than put them in the drop-out column. Funny, because 24 is the most common age for GED recipients. 15% of the schools are responsible for more than 50% of the drop outs. If we fund all schools based on enrollment, then the accountability is only at the district/school level. But, as long as the state has wiggle room in disbursing funds, there will never be a fair and just education system, and “not enough funding” will always be an excuse. Level the playing field, remove the excuses, incorporate a more diverse curriculum, reward accomplishments, and hold people accountable for not getting desired results. The hardest thing about it, would be retraining a bunch of old dogs, and getting people to agree on the vast amount of spending it would entail to create a new curriculum and implement it in every school, everything else is common sense. End of discussion, have a nice life.
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@Ace81
I’m actually laughing at you. Really. So are many others; you sound ridiculous and uneducated. Please read your own BS before you click submit. Child.
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@Ace81
puss
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@Wigg I’m flattered about the fact that I affected you this much. Smdh, nothing of substance to add to either side of the debate, so why comment at all?
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@Terri Lynn Sullivan@lucky85 Well no one has the right to force anyone to enter the military but they have the right to recruit. Everyone should educate themselves well in any endeavor they attempt – especially one in which their lives are literally and directly at stake.
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@Public Postings@lucky85 Wrong Public Postings, the Military has no right to “recruit” and especially no right onto school campuses. Nor is it even OK to remain so ignorant and apathetic about people’s “lives being at stake” for nothing but war profiteering into pockets of perps and Wall Street cronies cashing in on those adventures. It’s ALWAYs only been about “power”, greed, oil preserves which really are not worth anyone’s lives. It’s amazing how those of us that see this tend to be the ones that today have no financial woes, own decent houses, no fights with mortgage companies, living the good life but as everyone concerned with our financial portfolios due mostly to wanting to invest in socially and environmentally responsible funds which is hard to do in a socially and environmentally irresponsible economic system, with the worst culprits being the war profiteering corporations of which are the only reason our perpetual aggressive foreign policy is taking our nation down today. NOBODY has the right to ask any our children to join in on this to be used as pawns for profit into that political mess
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@Terri Lynn Sullivan@lucky85 I never said allowed to be forced which is a big difference here.
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@Terri Lynn Sullivan @Public Postings @lucky85
There is no way this woman has a phd as she claimed in an earlier post. In addition to writing like a grade schooler, her logic and reasoning are severely fragmented.
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@lucky85
In Charleston, of few years back, The state took 1 million away in funding because of testing results. The area, already struggling because there are many low income parents who either don’t have the time or don’t care about their kids education, had to drop all teachers assistants (mostly in elementary schools). This left one teacher in a room of 20- 30 kids struggling to keep up with children that needed serious attention. The tests scores were low for a reason. It may sound silly, but in a corporation, you would have managers overseeing other managers to make sure they were training workers properly. A test doesn’t tell us if the teacher needs more help or just doesn’t care. We need people not tests.
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This is absurd, while the government sets standards and mandates regarding education, each state has their own unique curriculum and testing methods. Yes they have to meet certain standards, but our education system is essentially failing at the state level, not the federal level. There is still segregation and busing going on in communities across the country, the states are not distributing their funds equally throughout the districts, and there is no accountability for teachers, principals or superintendents. We need education reform, a whole new curriculum that addresses the different learning styles of students, and accountability for the staff. Teachers are blaming parents and parents are blaming teachers… expectations should be clear, teachers should be teaching history, math, science, reading, etc., parents should be teaching respect, morals, and how to behave in society while acting as a supporting role for teachers at home when the child needs it (some need it more than others). We are in a new day and age, government classes and money management skills should also be taught in school. But the standard needs to be nationwide, our education shouldn’t depend on how well our state oversees the education department. As you can see by Ron Paul’s statement, some people don’t see education as a priority.
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great response
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@Ace81 Maybe you should look into what happening with Common Core Essentials. Almost every state in the U.S. will finally be ranked and rated on the same standards – thus, called “Common Core.”
Ron Paul is correct saying that some people don’t see education as a priority. If you read through the above “Education” article completely, you’ll see that it is somewhat contradicting your mentioned ideals of nationwide standards. It actually would grant states the right to do whatever they want – including how they evaluate and score their students.
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Exactly. Another idea would be to give tax credits to successful people to step up and teach, mentor and tutor.
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@Public Postings@AliciaDunn I really can’t tell if you are being serious… lol
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I disagree with Ron Paul trying to remove himself from the Department of Education. Although I like the reasons for him wanting to pull the government out of that system, I would like to see more efforts put forth in to the financing of our college educations. This is not to say that I expect the government to pay for the education and give us a free ride. I’m saying that the government should offer grants and scholarships to students with good academic standing as well as a chance to pay for school by servicing our country in more versatile ways than just going into Military service. I think that it is very important for the United States citizens to show patriotism for the country and students can give back and demonstrate their appreciation by offering three years or so of service to the country when they graduate.
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@gstudent1656 May I share 2 Suggestions be before I must stress that The Constitution doesn’t give Congress authority to be in the Education business. We have decades of history that shows the U.S. Govt getting into areas the Constitution doesn’t give authority and the result is little results and BIG DEBT. The experiment has failed. Let’s recognize it and do different. As for Education:
1. There are Private, Non Profit, State level grants already available for students. As well as Federal Grants. So, what you want already exists.
2. There are cheaper ways to get higher education. I went to Community College for a while. Far cheaper. I also worked while I went to college. Took only 12-15hrs a semester. Took >4years. But, I graduated DEBT FREE and I learned how to WORK in the process. Don’t live on campus, don’t buy new books, don’t do the dining plan, etc. , etc.
Actually, the “Student Loan” craze is fairly new to American History. There was a day when the great majority did the “pay as you go” route.
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@gered@gstudent1656 There was also a day when someone making min wage could pay for college at the average state school w/ 20 hours of work, 1960′s, and today min wage pays for college in a state school with the entirely reasonable 120 hours of work per week.
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@Gomer_rs@gered@gstudent1656 That’s an excellent point.
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@Gomer_rs Does your aspirations hit the ceiling at minumum wage? I’m really interested in why you think the default is minimum wage? More people than you think work through college and make it thorugh without debt or financial assistance. So, anyway, please explain why your default is minimum wage?
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@gered@gstudent1656 Yes, there are various grants available. However, there are not enough of them and the qualifications to receive them are based on the government’s determination of your “resources” as well as where you fall in the Federal or State poverty guidelines. This is not sufficient. I applaud your method of getting an education and working your way through it. A community college education (except for a few professions) is usually a stepping stone to further education if you want to be competitive in the job market. If you can continue to do what you have done and get further education all the more power to you. I do think that less people should have to rely on student loans to afford college. Even without buying new books, etc., tuition is much more expensive for a 4 year college than a community college as you know. There is no reason anyone should have to take 4 years to achieve a 2 year degree because of the need to work and pay as they go. Do you think that you should have received a partial grant or financial assistance to go to college? I do.
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@Public Postings I don’t understand. We do not have a right to financial aid. We have the right to life and liberty. Why would we have a right to have something given to us for nothing? The government does not produce anything. If we are to have Federal Grants that is money. If the government doesn’t produce anything, then you have to take money for grants from someone else and give it to the grantee. Why allow the government to take from someone to give to the other? It is easy to find out how much 4 years of college costs. When you have that info, you either wait and save up or apply for non government sponsored grants or work along the way. I didn’t earn or work for financial assistance, so why should I have received it? Explain to me why I deserved something for nothing? Especially when I made a way to make it on my own?
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@gered@Public Postings The idea that no one is owed anything, is a bit absurd. We are owed equal opportunity at the very least. But, you have to realize that the government caused artificial inflation, that was rising at a much faster rate than wages. So now, it takes two parents going to work to provide for their family, it takes 10 years after finishing school to pay off your student loans, the banks that gave loans (which are essentially a gamble) are suing their people who’s houses were foreclosed because the value is minimal in comparison to the loans that the banks gave on them. The government is to blame. If you go to a public school system that was failing and weren’t provided with the same tools as everyone else, so you can’t get a scholarship or grants, or a decent paying job to pay for college, does that mean you shouldn’t be able to further your education? The system has failed a lot of people, it needs to righted. The government is responsible, they need to also be accountable… to a certain degree.
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@gered@Public Postings The idea that no one is owed anything, is a bit absurd. We are owed equal opportunity at the very least. But, you have to realize that the government caused artificial inflation, that was rising at a much faster rate than wages. So now, it takes two parents going to work to provide for their family, it takes 10 years after finishing school to pay off your student loans, the banks that gave loans (which are essentially a gamble) are suing their clients who’s houses were foreclosed on because the value of the property is minimal in comparison to the loans that the banks gave on them. The government is to blame. If you go to a public school system that was failing and weren’t provided with the same tools as everyone else, so you can’t get a scholarship or grants, or a decent paying job to pay for college, does that mean you shouldn’t be able to further your education? The system has failed a lot of people, it needs to be righted. The government is responsible, they need to also be accountable… to a certain degree.
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@gered I’m trying to state that in the larger scheme of things educated people more than pay back any assistance they receive from the government through the contributions they make to society. That is a good incentive for providing financial support for its citizens to go to college. There is no such thing as something for nothing here. No one would be giving you anything for nothing.
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@Public Postings I think we can agree we both have different philosophies about liberty, personal responsibility and the role of the Federal Government. What I think solidifies my philosophy is history. 1932 Pres. FDR rolled out his “New Deal” that would create govt agencies to spend money to get people to be prosperous. 40 years later, that philosophy consumes 60% of 2011′s Federal Budget (Social Security, Unemployment/Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid/Child Health Ins., Interest on Nat’l Debt). The U.S. is $15Trillion in Debt and no candidate Rep nor Dem (besides Ron Paul) wants to reduce annual spending. 50 years and your philosophy has turned out that. Soc Sec is bankrupt/insolvent, babyboomers are about to bankrupt medicare/medicaid. This only reveals the wisdom of The Authors of The Consititution when they did not give Congress authority to be a government of social welfare provider. Outside of Federal Govt, I KNOW private donors, non profit orgs and churches would meet the needs of the poor and hurting. We are a generous nation of people. But, the experiment is done, the results are in: Federal Govt is not good at social welfare. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It’s what makes this nation great!
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@gstudent1656 Individual states provide grants for the “economically disadvantaged” according to government standards for poverty. There are programs in which you can work in the public sector and have your student loans forgiven. I believe these are based on a state by state basis. I don’t think the government paying for college education is a “free ride”. Educated citizens can be prepared to give back in the service of their future occupations. Educated people serve this country well (if there are jobs to fill). There can still be reasonable standards to acquire funding (maintaining a passing GPA, completing a program, etc.).
Incidentally, I visit sites sometimes that talk about millions of dollars in financial aid for college that are available and no one takes them. Most seemed for very specific programs, memberships in certain organizations, etc. It’s tough for people whose schooling is very expensive (such as in the healthcare professions).
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@gstudent1656 You get a bit sketchy when you start talking about kids getting chance to pay for school by “doing some sort of service to country” when they graduate. I hope to dear God you are not counting combat “military service” as a way of “serving country”, many of us parents don’t believe in war as a “service to country” in fact like our founding fathers warned, the overbloated MIC and our continued interference abroad is what has destroyed our country. And nobody’s sons any more than daughters should ever be expected…or praised for doing so. they should “serve their country” and foremost serve their personal goals and talents by doing something POSITIVE for our country and themselves, such as be a Doctor, Environmental Scientist , Engineer….whatever. This primitive notion that “Patriotism” has anything to do with military has got to be abolished, and there lies the main problem with having the corrupt feds linked into our children’s education
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@AliciaDunn Whats next? Get rid of the DoD and let states run militias?!
Maybe
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Drug addled children? I’m sorry, when did I mention drugs? The only thing not working is No Child Left Behind. And as for sounding like a right winger, if I was a right winger I would be calling for the eradication of the Department of Education. We have substandard education in the U.S. not because of the Department of Education existing, but the previous administration’s implementation of a bad program. As TexasTeacher11 said below me, without the federal government being involved we open the doors back to religion and racism to inhabit our classrooms and be forced upon our students once more. If Ron Paul was an intelligent man, he would know that the solution to the problem of American education is not ignoring the problem but fixing it, and by getting rid of the DoE he would be doing the former–ignoring.
As it is, I think that our current president has a pretty good plan on fixing our education system. But perhaps you don’t care to learn about it on your own time, instead jumping the gun to eliminate a useful department.
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@AliciaDunn There are a number of things wrong with our education system that is the direct influence of the Department of Education at work. First there is the fact that schools are given mandates for not only curriculum, but for maintaining a level of student attendance that determines where the money goes. This leaves schools to enforce policies that do not do justice to the performance of students in school, but is more concerned with ridiculous statistics.
I myself had a full time job while attending high school, and still managed to maintain A’s and B’s in my classes. The problem came from my attendance in which I would miss just a few days over the allowed 8 absences, and because of this my grades were automatically reduced to the highest F rating. I come from a poor household and quitting my job was not an option so I left school and got my GED. I now hold degrees at the Associate and Bachelor level for Software Engineering, but according to the DoE I was not worth the effort. My GPA is a solid 3.75.
If government would get out of education we could engage the material in a manner that excited students about learning real skills instead of just covering some chapters from a text book. The costs associated would also drop once the the cash surplus left the mix. Also there have been several studies that show where education funds get squandered by school board organizations paying outrageous salaries before ever reaching our schools.
No Child Left Behind inhibits the rate of learning of individuals, but it is far from the only problem in education.
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@Allyn Once again, yes, there are some changes that can be made to the DoE and their system. But the amount of services they provide should prove that they are a needed department. I fail to understand how anyone could say that the best thing to do would be to completely get rid of the DoE rather than fixing it. That would be like taking your car, destroying it because of a few problems you are having it (rather than just fixing it), and then using a lesser vehicle like a bike to get you places.
Does anyone here actually know what the DoE does? Let’s review what they do: they provide grants and scholarships to students who perform well and are wanting to go to college, they enforce laws regarding discrimination in schools (discrimination due to sex, disabilities, race, etc.), and they are the main organization through which data and research is collected on schools. Also, they are part of the United States Interagency Council on Homelessness, providing education programs for the homeless as well as runaway teens.
Furthermore, for those of you who don’t know, up until the program No Child Left Behind was created the U.S. Education system was highly decentralized. Curricula and education standards had been left up to local and state governments till that point, which was one of the major issues that came up when it came to the establishment of No Child Left Behind–some curriculum standards had to be lowered for certain areas, and raised to an extreme degree for others. While the quality of education in certain institutions, as well as the degrees they provide, have been maintained through accreditation, however only in regards to higher education. Accreditation at public schools such as primary and secondary have been controlled by the states.
So if you had been a student prior to No Child Left Behind, the unfortunate attendance issues that you encountered were state mandated… the very type of control you are so gung-ho for.
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Ron Paul’s position on education is ridiculous. The only thing that he can give us as an example of a bad program implemented by the Department of Education is No Child Left Behind–a program created by the Bush administration.What does the Department of Education do? It gives grants to intelligent students who can’t afford college by themselves. It provides structure to the education system, giving certain guidelines on what should be taught. It keeps certain religious ideals from being pushed at schools. By allowing states or local communities to decide curriculum, it opens the doors for pseudo-science and inaccuracies to run rampant in students’ education. If parents want their children to have a specific education, for example a Christian education, they can feel free to send their kids to a private school. If they can’t afford it, well, that’s everyone’s beloved capitalism of schools at works so perhaps they shouldn’t complain.
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@AliciaDunn Grants and Scholarships OUTSIDE Federal Funded Grants and Scholarships or “Private Grants and Scholarships” outnumber Federal Grants & Scholarships 20:1. If we eliminated Federal Grants and Scholarships immediately, the money available would only be reduces by 5%. You can say the only bad example is No Child Left Behind. But, what is a good example? Any empiracal evidence Fed. Dollars are improving education? Since Dept of Education has come to existance, The U.S. education performance has steadily dropped to the bottom in comparison with other countries. No other country has spent NEARLY the money the U.S. Govt has, yet we can keep up with other countries academically. As I said in a previous post, history reveals the lack of effectiveness of an unconstitutional philosophy. If you want different results, gotta do different things.
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Todays Post…
…Here’s a great source……
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Allen, your timeline doesn’t work and she should really analyze her efficiency (2 1/2 hours to get to work? Up until 9pm doing school work?) Maybe she’s having an affair in the morning before work and too tired for you at night. First, private sector employees have had huge increases in their insurance costs and no pay increases and most likely pay cuts. Second, people in the private sector haven’t had pensions for over 20 years. Most schools have 180 days of instruction + 104 days of weekends and tachers have 81 days off a year. Most private sector workers total three weeks off. Since she has been a teacher for at least 5 years, she has “tenure” (aka “I can’t get fired). She can go on stress leave and have a sub teach for weeks without fear of getting fired or her pay cut. She hits a kid and she gets a paid vacation to stay home until they “investigate” for months or years. Private sector – you’re fired that day and walked out. Private sector people don’t have any job security. Is that bad? Nope. It keeps people working hard and staying smart. By our students test scores, drop out rates and school violence, I don’t see tenure working out for our kids. Again, she should never complain about the low pay because her hourly rate is really high and she has incredible benefits.
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I might add that there are many philanthropic individuals and organizations out there and fostering a belief in the charity of our fellow human beings to aid us, by their own personal choice, when needed is a key tenet to creating community and trust.
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Go see the College of the Ozarks. An accredited 4-year Liberal Arts College – http://www.cofo.edu/Page/About-C-of-O.14.html. They have been graduating students debt free for over 100 years. There are options for universal education that do exist and that will blossom when presented with the right circumstances. When one takes federal assistance (which I did many years ago) where does the money come from? When we speak about fairness and equity how can one justify taking income from some to subsidize education for others. To truly understand Liberty one needs to question if their personal view of Liberty, if followed through, would infringe on the Liberty of another. If it does it’s not Liberty as True Liberty is Universal that carries the price tag of personal responsibility for fulfilling one’s desires.
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My wife is a teacher and education is discussed a lot in our home. She is involved now with a charter school(K-2nd grade) where the children make their own society to apply what they learn. They have jobs and their own businesses and even form their own judicial system. It is the application of what they learn that makes them succeed. The same company, “Imagine Schools” has an enviromental charter school that applies what kids learn to the enviroment. These schools are rapidly growing. The possibilities are endless as to how successful our education could be with freedom.
Our local government has put many restrictions on these charter schools which at times feels like the government has set them up to fail, however, these schools are growing, and the children are succeeding.
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@Justconcerned Thanks for that wonderful testimony. You are awesome for sharing this. We can all make speculations about what freedom in education does but, until those speculations become experience, there is no foundation for the argument. Sounds like your kids are starting off with a great foundation -)
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@Justconcerned This is one positive scenario that is occurring all over. Charter schools have been rising up to correct a failure in public schools. I too have my fears about the eradication of the DoE but I believe public schools turn our kids mostly into conforming mediocrities, and teachers as well as parents all contribute to a mindset that encourages it. Maybe I have my biases because I had a horrible time in our public school systems, but if I had kids I would either home school or find a charter or Montessori.
Also, there is also the internet. Check out Khanacademy.org. It will blow your mind. You can sit your child in front of countless videos and they can be learning college level math, physics, history, biology, computer programming, etc. There are so many other options for children (and adults) to learn other than public schools. People can laugh at that notion, but you watch….video conferencing, Skype, more and more online programs…its inevitable.
Public schools also encourage parents to think their kids are going through the system therefore everyone will work out just fine. Parents need to step up and learn some “Tiger Mom” tactics, and not tolerate lazy attitudes that one just has to graduate, go to college and poof, have a job and have it made. Our world doesn’t work like that anymore. Public schools may very well be an outdated concept.
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Common Core standards were adopted by each state (who cooperated with one another to do so). These were not Federal decisions.
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For those of you who disagree with Ron, tell me….
If you gave someone a thousand dollars to hold it for you, and then asked for it back a year later and were only given eight hundred dollars, would you say that was a good deal?
And if that same person who held the money for you also forced you to spend money on things you don’t need, or want, especially when you have no say…… but then held your money ransom until you complied to force you to do what they want? Would you do it? Or would you fight back, get your money, and tell them that you won’t be bullied by their threats. Bet you would.
Our current Department of Education does that….it uses YOUR money to hold YOUR school district for ransom to get what it wants, and no school district has the guts (or the ability) to say no. Our kids, in the mean time, lose.
Ron is right on track not to have a verbose, long winded policy on education. Any educator who took Foundations of Education in college, if they remember, that education is one of the things that was explicitly left for each state and community to control. Now, in truth, neither does.
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@libertyjusticeforall2012 Please, explain how the Department of Education is holding the school district “ransom”. If by ransom you mean, preventing teachers from forcing religious views on students, or preventing racist segregation, or perhaps by ransom you mean trying to establish a guideline for schools to teach on so that students across the nation can have approximately the same level of learning?
True, there are issues in the Department of Education, one such issue being the program of No Child Left Behind. But previous to that program, the Department of Education allowed a lot more freedom for schools as long as the taught approved material. There were no tests, to my knowledge, unless a state implemented them.
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Someone needs to edit this page. Education is a massive issue, and Ron Paul needs a more solid stance than “Cut federal government and send it to the state level.” There is so much going on about education reform in the country, comparing us to China and how uneducated our children are, and re severely need reform… Ron Paul needs a legitimate plan, because an uneducated youth is only slightly better than an economic crash. So, knowledgeable supporters out there, please try to expand this page with some rebuttals and better, more convincing information. I am surprised at how little education is being talked about in the debates.
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@Johnson M Education is not discussed much in the debates because all of the candidates are rich, went to private schools. They really just don’t care weather impoverished people in our country get the education they need no compete in this country. In fact getting rid of education all together would ensure that there would be little or no competition, which is exactly what rich people want.
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[...] Supporting Ron Paul is not just over a single issue such as climate change (which he has spoken about here), although his position consistently has been from the point of following our Constitution. In this case, he supports ending subsidies- a common-sense means of reducing government spending and allowing the free market to work. If you're interested in his positions on federal education, many can be found here. [...]
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there shld be only one curriculum: the sane one. education shld be free for all those who want to become educated. curriculum shld be chosen by all americans or all americans who want to participate in what students shld or must learn.
all scholing shd be in hands of all americans; education or a school shld never be in private or state hands. it shld be in hands of the entire collection of people.
actually, free higher education wld never be free; since well-educated people wld more than pay back the original costs of educating them.
what wld a sane education entail? for one thing, children shld never be graded; thus, no child wld be left out or behind.
present system of brute competition guarantees that some children wld be left behind and this wld cause permanent division between them. tnx
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@glo westblizz is 100% correct.
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The one thing you need to understand is that education is not free – the cost must be borne by someone, somewhere, and at sometime. When I was in high school, my dad had this great little magnet on his visor which said – “You can’t get something for nothing unless someone, somewhere is getting nothing for something.”
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If you are a student you should know how corrupt the States have been throughout the struggle for democracy and civil rights in this country. Most states are corrupt and greedy. If they had extra money, and believe me they will not! it would never see its way to the people who need an education. The states in the south held onto their prejudice, and discrimination until federal legislation was ratified. Even then they held on to their ignorant beliefs putting systems like “Jim Crow Laws” into place in order to oppress minorities.Do you trust the states? states collect billions in fines and fees a year especially in traffic fines, yet they are always broke! I will not trust the states with education!
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If you look at the history of this country, you will see that the states were proponents of segregation, Jim Crow laws, and exploitation of minorities and women. And even now the states are the reason more people are incarcerated in this country than any other. Fines in most States are acerbated, and the State legislators are anything but bi- partisan. If we left our education policies in the hands of the States, there is no way I could trust them to make fair and unbiased decisions. I am a student and can not to afford to go to college without the programs in place for students, especially in this economy. Ron Paul lost my vote because of his views on education.
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@klk777 Ron’s position is not to circumvent Federal Civil Rights laws, but to give the control of educational decisions back to we, the people. Currently, the federal government hold’s local school district’s hostage by forcing them to comply to their mandates (often unfunded), or risk losing federal funding (which they now rely on). This is how the federal government has quietly seized control of what our constitution wisely left to each state, control of the local school system.
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I am a ( 20+ years) public school teacher. I am in 100% agreement about eliminating the Federal Government involvement in public education. I agree with Ron Paul to this point. Let the states and local communities make the decisions without federal leverage and mandates. Local and state control is evaporating. I can also assure you that public school teachers are not overpaid. Anyone who says they are has a true lack of real insight to what is going on in today’s classrooms and just how much education and training a teacher needs to continue being a teacher. Schooling today isn’t the same as what you had back in the day. Ripping on all teachers as the root of the problem is like ripping on all doctors for the root of all medical problems. If the teachers are that bad shouldn’t the administration be removing them from their job? It isn’t that hard to do. As the grievance chair I can say, you can, in fact, easily fire a teacher for poor performance. For me, I see the assaults on public schools as an agenda to eliminate public schools, not fix the problem. Ever notice politicians talk how they will “fix” education and invoke policies that create bigger problems? It’s all I’ve ever seen in my adult life. All talk no real results. Ron Paul has my attention, however, I would love to know more about how Senator Paul stands on the education issue. Perhaps once kids get to 10th grade they declare college track or trades track. As far as higher education, I am in complete agreement. My wife and I both worked summer jobs and part time jobs allowing us to completely pay for college ourselves without loans. Our oldest son works the same as we did yet his earned income covers only 1/4 of the cost to attend the same college! The pay our son earns is nearly the same as what we earned yet the cost of school is outrageously too high. He’ll be $45,000 in debt after 4 years.
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