Sound Money
Henry Ford once said, “It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
Are you confused by all the talk about monetary policy, fiat money and inflation? You’re not alone. Bankers and politicians have worked hand in hand for many decades to obscure their activities from the public. They hide behind elaborate structures designed to inflate the money supply while creating the false impression that they are looking out for our best interests.
Inflation is a very simple concept to understand: More money = less value. It may seem contradictory but it’s very straightforward.
For illustration purposes, join me on a brief journey of the imagination. One beautiful morning, you wake up and realize that you own twice as much cash as you had just last night. Magic money elves entered your home and bank account and simply doubled your entire cash assets. You’re now twice as wealthy (or half as poor as the case may be).
But you soon realize that the same thing happened to everyone else in the country. The money supply (total amount of money) has doubled! It’s just a one-time event and your regular income remains the same… you just got lucky this one time. It’s okay to dream, so stay with me.
What happens next? If you’re like most people, you probably start spending. You buy things you always wanted to buy but couldn’t afford. You pay back some debts. You buy stocks. In other words, you put the new money into circulation. So do most other people in the country.
Demand for many products increases because a lot more people can afford them now. Consumers are buying so much stuff that some shortages occur. To protect themselves against these shortages, shops and businesses decide to increase their prices. They know that once prices go up, fewer people will be competing to buy the same products, and the situation will be back to normal.
As a side effect of these higher prices, shop owners start earning higher profits than usual. They have more money in their bank accounts, which allows them to increase their spending. They will invest in new stock or expand their business. They might pay out dividends to their investors and bonuses to their employees, allowing these people to buy more products as well. This additional demand puts even more pressure on other shops to increase their prices.
A few months later, prices of almost everything have gone up. Suppliers and manufacturers are faced with the same threat of too much sudden demand from their clients so they too decide to start charging more.
You went on a one-time buying spree and look what happened! Your income stayed the same, but after a few weeks you can suddenly no longer afford the products you used to buy all the time because all prices in the economy have gone up.
Naturally, you demand a higher salary from your employer. If you’re self-employed or in business, you have to charge your customers more money just so that you can maintain your standard of living. Everyone else is in the same situation. Higher prices keep spreading throughout the entire economy, and it’s getting more and more difficult to make a living.
Can you see how this lucky one-time incident which at first seemed so exciting was extremely harmful not just for you but for the entire country? You briefly had a good time but now you’re worse off than before. In our story there are now twice as many dollars in circulation, but your income remains the same and each dollar you earn is worth only about half as much as it used to be. You’re really hoping for those money elves to come back.
As a matter of fact, some people, companies and banks have managed to develop an inside connection to the “money elves”, allowing them to receive new money into their bank accounts whenever they want to. The money is officially a loan (credit), but they know they never have to pay it back… they just “roll it over”, i.e. take up even more debt. With all that easy money in their accounts, and after hearing on TV that stocks only go up and that real estate prices will continue to rise forever, they tend to get a bit lightheaded and start making bad investment decisions. They know that if anything happens to their investments they will be bailed out by the government, so they do not hesitate to take huge risks with their new found “wealth”.
Let’s stop dreaming and look at the reality of things. What if I told you that these “money elves” do exist and that they spring into action not just once in a lifetime, but every couple of weeks? And that they repeatedly give money to their closest friends, but not to you? That prices are going up because the total amount of money in circulation increases, but that you’re missing out on all the fun?
Well, that’s inflation at work. Who benefits from inflation? Only those who are at the top of the pyramid and receive all that new money directly from the source. As you might have guessed by now, the source is the Federal Reserve, and its recipients include the government which “borrows” a lot of new money each year, without any intention of ever paying it back. Another beneficiary these days are failed banks that are being “bailed out” for the good of the “economy”, or defense contractors that receive money to build up our military so we can have a constant presence all over the world and fight never-ending and unnecessary wars. There was even a huge number of small-time beneficiaries who received consumer loans and sub-prime mortgages they would never be able to pay back.
What, then, is fiat money? It’s exactly what we just talked about: money that can be inflated or increased at the push of a button at the say-so of a powerful person or organization. Nowadays most dollars are just blimps on a computer screen and it’s extremely easy for the Federal Reserve to create money out of thin air whenever they want to.
If our money were backed by gold and silver, people couldn’t just sit in some fancy building and push a button to create new money. They would have to engage in honest trade with another party that already has some gold in their possession. Alternatively, they would have to risk their lives and assets to find a suitable spot to build a gold mine, then get dirty and sweaty and actually dig up the gold. Not something I can imagine our “money elves” at the Fed getting down to whenever they feel like playing God with the economy.
As you can see, inflation and fiat money are very seductive and beneficial to those at the top, and very dangerous to everyone else and the nation as a whole. That’s exactly what Henry Ford was talking about. He knew that every country that relies too much on fiat money is ruined sooner rather than later.
There is only one possible solution to the inflation problem: Stop creating money out of thin air. But we’re already in such a mess that the only way to have a real impact on the money supply is to increase interest rates so that people pay back their loans and borrow less money from the banks, which decreases the amount of money in circulation. However, higher interest rates might very well crash the economy. So the Fed’s current “solution” to overcoming inflation is… creating even more of it.
Fiat money is a dangerous addiction. Even if the Fed found a way to stop inflation, as long as the current system persists the temptation will always be there to resume pushing the easy money button. That’s why we need to get back on the gold standard and eliminate the Federal Reserve altogether.
But that won’t happen “before tomorrow morning”, as Henry Ford said, or even this year. Ron Paul believes that the first step towards monetary freedom is to allow open competition in currencies. Once gold and silver are allowed as legal tender and can be sold without sales tax, everyone can use them to store their wealth and to pay for the things they want to buy. The Federal Reserve will finally have a very compelling motivation to stay honest and maintain the value of the dollar because if they don’t, they will simply lose all their customers.
Ron Paul has been an advocate of the gold standard and open competition in currencies for many years. He is the Federal Reserve’s most outspoken opponent in Congress and has frequently questioned Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke about the Fed’s actions.
Join the Ron Paul Revolution and help us put the Fed where it belongs: into the history books and out of our financial lives.
Further Information
In this 1988 interview, Ron Paul talks about money, banking and the Federal Reserve, and predicts the current financial crisis.
Show: American Power Structure
Date: August 1988
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Since this issue is about money, perhaps we can answer this:
Why is the United States paying out billions and billions of dollars to third world countires who, despite what it is to be used for, use it to further their own agendas and line their own pockets? Whyt do we continue to send them our moneies instead of using those dollars at home to further our own economy and stabilize our own nation? The last time I looked, I didn’t vote to send money to any other country. Lets take Somalia for example…..While we were there, tons and tons of food and medical supplies wer shipped into that country. Yet despite having troops on the ground there, it all seemed to end up in the hands of those who didn’t need it.
I have seen it all over the world…Africa, Central America…supplies sent there to help the people rarely makes it to them despite our efforts. Why then should we be sending anyhting out of this country when we can’t even feed our own population? I am sorry, but it seems that money,food, and medical supplies would be better put to use where it would be most appreciated. Thank you
Will someone please do the AUDIT on Federal Reserve
We are headed into hyperinflation…the destruction of the dollar and our way of life, liberties and freedom. No one seems to be able to stop it no matter how often these people have warned.
Dr. Paul’s Walls I – German Hyperinflation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XkabcSkpOA
Peter Schiff Trying to Get The Message of Impending Hyper Inflation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4v5×932cNE
The US Dollar collapse starts now! Peter Schiff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALX5cx0d-S4&feature=related
China requests for US bonds in yuan; bank holiday and Peter Schiff predictions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVfdiEVkGnM&feature=related
(banks are closing)
The coming dollar devaluation, Obama to do like Roosevelt FDR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pTkTdAuKBo&feature=related
(secretly working on a 2nd stimulus bill with Pelosi)
David,
You stated..
“In terms if real and permanent inflation, these are created by exactly the opposite of what is being described here, and are created by a shortage of disposable currency in the system. The shortage reduces demand, and increases production cost, as due to the shortage, production which was once running in the 1000’s has now been reduced to the 100’s with the manufacturer still having to maintain the same costs and facilities that it took to produce the 1000 on 1/10th the number of sales. ”
This is not understanding the full costs of manufacturing. The largest cost to build any product is manpower, it isn’t facilities or material costs. So if a company builds 100 instead of 1000 they lay off a large portion of their workforce because sales don’t produce sufficient revenue to cover the bottom line..i.e. expenses. When a large percentage of businesses experience the same problem then unemployment rises, companies sell less and less, and they either layoff additional people or operate in the red waiting for a turnaround. Just as in the current economic downturn prices AREN’T increasing as a result of reduced production. I am not sure your background on economics and business operations but it’s apparent you require additional training.
Well Kevin, i don’t have time to get into a detailed response on this, but what i’d suggest, is that you find an engineering drawing of some simple part, and take it to several job shops and get quotes on what it will cost to have them produce it.
The part cost will reduce with quantity, we’ll assume an average part price of 20.00. First, there’s going to be a tooling cost which will be expensive and will vary depending on the part and desired quantity, but we wont worry about that here. For each production run there’s going to be a $ 1,000.00 set up fee for them to set up the equipment to produce it. If you order one part its going to cost you 1,020.00. If you order 100 parts they will cost you 30.00 each, if you order 1,000 21.00 each and so on.
The statement that prices AREN’T increasing is an outright lie. I don’t know if you live in America or not, but here in the southwestern US, the basics that we need to survive. food, power, etc., have all gone up 2-3 times what they were 5 years ago while income has been cut down to a small fraction of what it was then. About the only thing where prices haven’t skyrocketed yet are goods made in places like China, where they are for all intents and purposes produced by slave labor where the cost is simply feeding the production workers, and those will skyrocket too, once our lack of purchasing power catches up to them and they can no longer sell enough to feed the people producing them. Further, the only prices that have come down here are on real estate, and this is due to the fact that we have a glut of existing housing on the market (which does not have to be produced at this point) which no one can afford to buy at any price, and this is a very, very bad thing.
I own and operate a manufacturing business, so this is something i know very well, and i have absolutely no background in economics, which i think is a good thing. If we could simply forget all of the foolish and complicated economic theories proposed by “trained” economists that so many believe in, designed to figure out how to make an unsustainable system actually function. Then turn the matter over to a bunch of 6 year old children, with the simple object of making something work, i expect we’d have a better chance of coming up with a working, free, and sustainable system, than we have relying on the so called “trained” experts, who have been educated in complicating simple things to the point where they can’t work in order to try and justify their own existence.
I haven’t commented on this yet as we’ve been busy discussing things with each other on here thus far, but i’m taking a break from the shop here and something does need to be said about the example posted on the main section page re: inflation.
The theories posted here on inflation are dead wrong, and it is a cash shortage that creates long term inflation and not surpluses. As explained in the proposal i posted some time ago, which is something you’ve all seen happen before your very eyes, the inflation in this country has generally been progressing in inverse proportion to the amount of disposable money and credit available to the people, and the less that has been in circulation the higher the prices have climbed.
It is true that a surplus of money and a demand in excess of supply of certain products will result in a price increase due to the shortage, and if were simply going to accept what is said here and not look beyond that, then the theory proposed would seem correct and valid. The problem is, that the shortage will invariably result in increased production and competition for the product for which there is a shortage, and that increased production and competition will once again bring the prices down, generally to a level lower than what they were before. The bottom line is that it costs much less to build 1000 of something than it does to build 100, and the end result of any form or cash surplus can only be increased production and reduced prices, its a self regulating thing.
In terms if real and permanent inflation, these are created by exactly the opposite of what is being described here, and are created by a shortage of disposable currency in the system. The shortage reduces demand, and increases production cost, as due to the shortage, production which was once running in the 1000’s has now been reduced to the 100’s with the manufacturer still having to maintain the same costs and facilities that it took to produce the 1000 on 1/10th the number of sales.
In terms of my own business, i have been manufacturing a fairly large ticket item, and one that has been of great benefit to every one of my clients, which under the pre-recession pricing was still affordable to most people in the target market. Since the onset of this manufactured economic crisis, the majority of the market who needs this product has been putting off buying it because they don’t know where their next dollar is going to come from, and the only customers still remaining are the very rich who are not concerned with this situation. Hence, i have had to double my prices on the product, as to the people who are still purchasing, it makes little difference whether the cost is $ 15,000 or $ 30,000. Hence as a result of the shortage of currency, the product is now only available to the very rich, and will not be affordable to the general population until such a time as the supply or currency in the system is sufficient that the sales volume will increase to the point where i can once again lower the prices to where they formerly were, due to the increased production demand.
Anyway, if you carry the example on this page further, and simply look at what has been going on right in front of you for the past 10 years or so, you’ll see that this is correct, and unless and until the supply of currency in the system actually exceeds our production capacity, which will never happen, any form of long term inflation is impossible and any surplus of currency short of that must eventually accomplish the opposite and the end result is simply more for everyone. The real inflation is due to a cash shortage, and under the current circumstances prices can only go up and will never come down, as the lower the demand, the higher the cost in the long run. For every dollar less that you have in your hands in terms of disposable income, the prices will generally go up two.
Oh dear.
This entire post has pretty much everything exactly wrong.
You have to get your definitions straight if you’re going to understand inflation. Inflation is simply an increase in the supply of money and money substitutes. An EFFECT of inflation is a GENERAL rise in prices over time.
Buried in your own post is an understanding of this but the illusion of paper money has clouded your vision. I’ll post again with what I hope will be an instructive example.
Christ man, where have you been for the past 10 years ? You’ve seen this for yourself, so has everyone else. I don’t know about you, but my costs on this end were pretty much stable until 3 or 4 years ago, when the banks started withdrawing credit from the system. Now my power is more than triple the price for the same amount of useage, a cartload of groceries that was once 250 is now 500. Geez man, instead of listening to theories just look at whats going on around you, and its exactly the shortage of currency that has created it.
You can call me wrong all you want, but anyone who actually lives and works in the real world knows better, this is life not a theory.
To be honest, your philosopies seem to be designed to create a system of chaos and poverty for the general population more than anything else, and then you maintain the legitimacy of a banking system to help make that happen even faster. The single and only thing that will ever accomplish anything else, is a stable, commonly accepted and consistent supply of currency, produced for the benefit of the people.
Well this is a bit sad. We were getting along so well despite our differences. I have never defended the legitimacy of the banking industry as it is today. You are setting up a strawman without even realizing it. As I have already said, there is a difference between fractional reserve banking held together by a central bank (what we have today) and full reserve banking with free market regulations. I have attempted to direct you to books/articles which discuss this at length so you can better understand the institution of banking and how the practice has become corrupted. But you seem content to see only what is right in front of your face. Fractional reserve banking is inherently inflationary and fraudulent. Full reserve banking (which is what the free market would produce) is stable and honest.
I do live in the real world. I work a private sector job. Frankly, you should be embarrassed for writing such a foolish sentence. As if you’re the only one who has experience in the real world.
A shortage of currency? Are you serious? Have you seen the Fed’s monetary base chart? here you go…http://www.jbs.org/inflation-taxes-economy-blog/4508
You see that line going straight up at the end? That’s the inflation and we will eventually have to reckon with the effects. But we are currently enduring a period of what has been called “deflationary inflation”. Deflation because we have experienced and continue to experience a credit crunch (this is part of the solution btw) and all the quantitative easing by the Fed and other central banks = inflation.
Why do your customers not have money anymore? Sure the credit contraction has something to do with it. But again, the contraction is part of the solution. We had excessive credit growth in this country and around the world which created all types of asset bubbles that inevitably had to pop and correct. But I would wager that many of your customers are without money because they have lost their jobs, they are in fear of losing their jobs, their “savings” (stocks) evaporated last year, etc. There are many factors and “there isn’t enough currency being printed” isn’t one of them. You also must know that not all industries are equally affected. Look at the real estate market. Are prices going up? Nope.
What caused the prices in Zimbabwe to spiral out of control? A shortage of currency? Nope. The exact opposite. They were printing money like crazy and it only served to impoverish the country as it always does. How about in Weimar Germany? There are plenty of other examples from history demonstrating the devastating effects of inflation and debasement.
We’ve had inflation from the Fed since its inception. Not surprising because that is exactly what central banks do. What have we experienced since 1913? Has the purchasing power of the dollar gone up or has it gone down? Have prices gone down or have they gone up in the past 100 years? Has the gap between the absurdly rich and the rest of us narrowed or has it widened? Central banking, fractional reserve banking, and fiat money serves to widen the gap between rich an poor and eventually wipes out the middle class.
Easy money allows all types of malinvestments to take place. Eventually those malinvestments need to be purged and the economy needs to be allowed to correct. The correction is always painful. And the last thing we want is to have the government step in , print a bunch of money, ramp up a bunch of programs, and prolong the agony.
Hi Nate;
Well i think this is exactly what we need to do here, we need to forget about all the complicated theories and proposals involving economic systems that don’t work. Then simply look at what is going on right in front of our face and try to come up with a solution for it, and make that solution simple enough to actually work.
Certainly what your saying here could be deemed to be natural occurrences in an economy that is left to function without any control of the means of exchange, but the means of exchange itself is not a natural thing and is something created by people in order to facilitate widespread trade with each other. To simply leave this means of exchange alone to be manipulated for the power of private interests is a recipe for disaster, as we’ve seen over and over and over again throughout history, and as we are experiencing now and have on a very regular basis in the past. Since money is what it is, we should be able to do pretty much anything we want with it. It can and needs to be managed for the benefit of the population as well, and unless we do establish and control it for our own benefit, the system will simply come crashing down over and over again as it re-adjusts itself just as your describing here. My question is, why should any system where these painful adjustments which occur as you describe have to exist when its possible to come up with something where they would not be necessary ?. The bottom line is that if the general population has a steady, consistent, and reliable supply of money to buy the things they need, and most of the things they want, the countries production will be running at near its maximum capacity and that simply means more for everyone overall. I think the dream of every useful business in this country is for the population to have an abundant and reliable supply of disposable income to buy what they can manufacture and the more we can produce the better off everyone will be, and nothing much matters beyond this.
It’s interesting that you mention the Wiemar Republic, as this is the perfect example of what can be done in terms of establishing an economic system that works. In the Wiemar Republic the economic problems were a result of the banks involvement in the monetary system, and an “artificial” means of exchange being left to a “natural” evolution, just as ours are here today. When Hitler was elected circa 1934, his solution was a very simple one. He simply got rid of the banks, and produced currency on the basis of what the country could produce. By doing this, he was able to take a bankrupt, and completely destitute country, with massive unemployment, who’s money was not worth the paper it was printed on, and within the space of 5 years build it into a major power that almost took over the world, with economic might to which there was no rival. To do this was a very simple thing, and did not involve any complicated economic theories, or complex studies of systems that did not work. He just established a means of exchange, and managed and regulated it to make things work, and it did.
Unfortunately it was Hitler that did this, and his ambitions were for power much more so than for the benefit of his population, but even so, the German population, in spite of the fact that the vast majority of the production that was being directed toward the war effort and not being put toward the benefit of the people, were working and far more prosperous under his economic system than they had been before. Had his ambitions been strictly toward the benefit of his people and not toward power, i expect that Germany would have conquered the entire world through trade within a very short time, as no greater per capita economic might has existed in history, and it would be our economy which was functioning in order to serve German purchasing power today, just as all other economies in the world have functioned to serve American purchasing power in recent decades, and until that purchasing power was removed from us, expanding our economic crisis into a global one.
This is the single and only good thing that we can learn from that part of history, and managed properly, for the benefit of the people, a simple solution such as this is the one that could actually work to their maximum benefit as well. The only thing that matters is that the people have the means to purchase what can be produced.
If inflation were to result, so what ?. As long as the currency is there to buy what we can produce, what does it matter if its worth 1/2 as much in 10 years as it is today ? The quantity of goods making its way into the hands of the people which they can benefit from would be the only practical measure of prosperity that i could imagine, and not the value of the money. Since the means of exchange, whatever it is going to be, is completely artificial, it can be established and managed in any such manner that would bring this about, and as long as that production is maintained, the money itself matters very little. Its only useful purpose is to facilitate production, and to make it do that would seem a very simple thing.
There is much that can be learned from this, both good and bad, and instead of following this example of making an economy work, and applying this for the benefit of the people instead of the establishment of power, our politicians instead follow Hitlers example of gun control, with the ambition of securing the same power over our population on behalf themselves and their cohorts in the banking system, that Hitler established over his own people and those that he conquered. Since their ambitions and objectives are the same as his, this is of course the only thing they are willing to learn from him.
I certainly can’t recall anything from any point in history where any form of currency, in and of itself ever generated any significant amount of prosperity for a country or its population, but we have seen that the proper management of a currency can do this, both in WW2 Germany’s example, and also in the example of those of the 13 colonies where the scrip was managed effectively and made to work. Again, the trick would be electing the right people to manage the system so that it would work for our benefit, and it obviously would not always be managed so, but in such a case we would at least have the ability to vote them out of office, and elect ones which we deemed were more likely to do so. Under any other system, there simply are no options, and nothing we can do, and whatever temporary prosperity we may manage to establish will simply come crashing down over, and over, and over again, and we will have to start from scratch each and every time, instead of building progressively to keep establishing more instead of replacing what was already there. If it’s going to happen, it will involve people thinking outside the box, forgetting what they know, and instead putting their thought and efforts into actually making something work. Not so different from designing a good machine, or accomplishing any other useful and practical thing in the real world. I think that if we can get practical economics to the point where it is simple enough to be boring as hell, instead of a fascinating thing to study, then we would have something that could work, and under no other circumstances.
Hi Again Nate;
Further to my last, and there’s certainly no pun or insult intended here, your simply stating things they way they are now, and have functioned through most of history.
The analogy i’m seeing here, is that what your describing here in terms of the economic adjustments (contraction being part of the solution, etc.. Your absolutely right about mine and everyone elses’s customers as well, and were it not for this, there would be no problem), is equivalent to a person who insists on building a house on a riverbank, then every 5 or 10 years, the flood waters come and wash it away, and he builds another house in the same place just so that it can be washed away again. If he were to move the house 200 yards back, it would be out of the flood waters, then he could keep the house and put his time money and effort into building barns, or shop buildings or whatever else he could use.
There’s an awful lot of people in this world who insist on living on the river bank and quite literally keep building, and rebuilding and then building again for their entire lives, but it doesn’t make any sense to me when i could just move the house back a few hundred yards and in the end have 4 times as much with 1/2 the effort. I expect that to do this economically would be something just as simple, and the effect would be the same, but we do need to scrap the old foundation and build a new one in a different place.
“You have to get your definitions straight if you’re going to understand inflation. Inflation is simply an increase in the supply of money and money substitutes”
Wrong. That is your definition, not the definition of the other 99.9% of the world that does not adhere to Austrian economics.
For example, when you buy something like a TREASURY INFLATION PROTECTED SECURITY the interest rate is tied to the fed-controlled money supply and not the real-world price of underlying goods? Ohhh, gotcha, again the rest of the world is incorrect in its definition. Nice.
So, what happens if, in fractional reserve banking credit is created out of thin air via say, a CREDIT CARD or a HELOC? Does that not also meet your definition of ‘Inflation’, as it is a money substitute and can be spent, right Nate? Just curious…
Well it was the Austrians that called the crisis with stunning accuracy. Best we start listening to them. It’s not my fault that the word has been corrupted over time. That’s a natural occurence. It happens with plenty of words.
But yeah, credit cards and Home Equity Lines of Credit are m money substitutes and are a form of inflation. We could certainly get by without credit cards as they exist today and we definitely could have done without HELOC. That little financial invention was one of the key contributors to the housing bubble.
So if credit overall is being reined in, if those HELOC’s are pulled, those millions of little printing presses (credit cards) are no longer offered, used, and are paid off, wouldn’t that constrict the money supply?
What if people simply spent less and saved more? What if instead of spending, our national savings rate increased to 7% or 8%? Wouldn’t that also immediately decrease at the very least, current money velocity and supply?
What if the trillions of dollars in writedowns, that banks had lent against, force them to further bolster by having to raise additional capital or taking from earnings and storing them on the balance sheet?
All of the above ARE happening, by the way…
Possibly even more than the Fed has printed? Which means there is no inflation – even by your definition?
I would propose that Austrians don’t even bandy about the word ‘inflation’ in the sense of their own definition. Inflation seems to be viewed as ‘dollars printed by the central bank’ and all other monetary sources are basically excluded and the narrow focus is incorrectly centralized on one factor. The US economy is a lot bigger than one central bank.
I agree with some. Read my other post regarding a “deflationary inflation”. We have both happening right now. Credit contraction in the private sector coupled with money printing by almost all central banks. I am of the opinion that the Feds will eventually overwhelm the credit contraction. They will most certainly try their best because it is in their interest to do so.
It would be best if people spent less and saved more. Unfortunately, government/fed policy is encouraging the exact opposite. They have interest rates set at practically 0%. How does that encourage less spending and more savings. Yes, people are saving more. Too bad the government is busy stealing it from them through their inflationary monetary policy. It would be great if people saved 7-8% of their income. But what if the dollar devalues (which it is doing) by 7-8% (and it’ll probably go down by more)? That is nothing but a transfer of wealth from the people (at least, those who save in dollars) to the government and the politically well connected.
I assume the 7-8% drop you are referring to is possibly the USD index?
Fortunately, unless you are trading currencies or exchanging your cash and going grocery shopping in Mexico, your purchasing power with the dollar has actually has held exceptionally steady has not dropped by 7-8% you infer.
I did not suggest that the dollar has eroded 7-8%. It was merely a hypothetical used to illustrate a point which you apparently did not understand. I would have had to set up a start time to make such a suggestion anyway. All that could possibly be inferred is exactly what I wrote. That is, the dollar is losing value. Which it is. As you are no doubt well aware, we had a significant rally in the dollar last year. We had a credit collapse, the dollar gained in value, and as a result many prices actually went down. That relationship has reversed. We could very well see another rally in the dollar soon. But the main trend for the dollar is down. The public debt has doubled in the past year and it will continue to increase. One of the consequences will be the continued devaluation of the dollar. But by all means, keep your dollars and Tbills. I will take refuge in precious metals and commodities. Best of luck.
You obviously don’t know anything about commodities, and this is why your understanding of inflation is so flawed..
The value of gold has nothing to do with the amount of money in circulation, but rather linked to the amount of money invested into gold itself. This is true with whatever commodity or goods you can think of.. Gold has booms and bust just like home, schools, and hospital prices… just like any other investment. I guess you weren’t following the large oil boom we had this past year, or know anything about the stock market.
Investing in gold now would be a horrible idea while the value is so artificially high. A majority of real life investors are putting their money into Tbills. Don’t pretend like your some big shot investor, because i’m sure you don’t have a penny.
Look, gold has been losing value since 2000 after the boom in the past decades.
http://www.chpc.biz/images/DOW-GOLD-Jan08.jpg
Anymore theories? Why do you suppose GDP is so closely related to inflation and unemployment??? Tell us what you think or i guess you can continue to quote someone else because you have no intuition what so ever.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=886662
Yes, everything goes up and goes down over time. But it is now the precious metals’ time to shine. I am of the opinion that the PMs (and their stocks) are still in the early stages of a secular bull market. Sure, they could get slammed like they did last fall. In fact, I very much hope that happens.
I am not a big shot investor and I never meant to imply otherwise. But I am looking to trade my dollars for something that will appreciate in value in the coming years/decades. I bought 200oz of silver back in Feb. and am not looking to do anything with it for a decade or two. I have about 30K saved and am looking to invest about 15-20K in something other than the US dollar. I’m actually hoping for another dollar rally in the coming months. All I can say is I’m going to trade some cash for precious metals (or their stocks), some cash for commodities (or commodity related stocks/indexes), and exchange dollars for foreign currencies. And I’d want the stocks I buy to pay a dividend in some currency other than the US dollar. I’m looking very long term. We’re talking decades.
The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
Elizabeth Warren talks about the change in household budgets that has occurred. I remember there used to be a flex in our budgets when we could make cuts once in awhile on certain items and still meet our financial obligations easily. There is no more flex in the absolute payments we must make for necessities. The items that are necessities, not optional items, but necessities have been raised in price to be unaffordable, causing much financial stress in each household.
It used to be that women did not have to work outside the home and the wheels kept spinning. Then they entered the workforce as an option, not a necessity. Now it is near a necessity. I understand there was a push by the women’s movement backed by the IRS so they could now tax the other 1/2 of the population. Lots of changes, both historically and presently, are changing our financial situation. I look forward to the day when we no longer need a financial system at all. The financial system has gotten so complex, purposefully, so the average person does not even understand it, yet it can take away our wealth in one fell swoop. It is a money game set up by the financial wizzards so the elite win and the masses lose. Who wants to keep playing a game when it is set up for us to lose and lose big?
Hi Christine;
Again, i couldn’t agree more. I look at all of the misery and suffering that’s being inflicted on the people around me today and there is absolutely no reason for it as well. According to Nate’s understanding, these are necessary and painful adjustments that the economy needs to make, but the simple fact of the matter is that our production capacity hasn’t changed one bit, and there is absolutely no reason for this, other than the fact that we have been tolerating a system, which is so incredibly stupid, and so incredibly complicated that it can do nothing but come crashing down on us at least several times in each persons lifetime, simply in order to maintain power for the parasites that make it that way.
As you say, money is nothing more than a game, that is currently being manipulated by financial wizards, educated in complicating a simple thing as a means to power for the “elite” as you call them, which i would define as the few families who have owned and controlled the world’s banking system for the past 1000 years or so. We will always need some form of money as, short of moving back to a completely agrarian society, we need to enable a diverse range of people to trade with each other. If we can destroy these bastards and eliminate the game though, and simply use money as public asset, and a tool for our mutual benefit then money should no longer be an issue, and economics will be simple enough to actually work.
Dr. Paul,
We must stop the insane stimulus in Washington right now. I just learned that the extended home buyers’ credit will even include current home owners. How about renters? Many renters are financially-responsible individuals who refuse to have liar loans. Yet, renters got no tax deduction for rent, and have to literally pay for those who cheats!
You are our only hope, Dr. Paul!
CC
http://gunowners.org/sowell.htm
This is rather interesting, Obama, his banks, and their communist America. It’s on its way faster than we think and by the time the general population figures it out it will be too late to do anything about it.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Our Great Nation, Our Country, The United States of America is in imminent danger of being taken over by Globalist/Elitist Bankers. The OBAMA Administration is doing even more to further their agenda. Ron Paul’s Bill to Audit The Fed has basically been stalled; and even if passed, it could take years to sort out “WHERE ALL THAT MONEY WENT”…… I urge you to watch the following movie from Alex Jones, and after doing so, make up your own mind. The movie is entitled “FALL OF THE REPUBLIC”, and RON PAUL is in the movie in several places describing his bill proposal to AUDIT THE FEDERAL RESERVE….. This movie is available in several areas by searching using your favorite search engine. It can also be found on http://www.youtube.com, http://www.veoh.com, and also here:
http://www.americaisbeingdestroyed.com/video/falloftherepublic.mp4
You Can Watch Fall Of The Republic By Clicking On The Link Above. Download The File, Right Mouse Click And Choose “SAVE AS”. The Movie Lasts 2Hrs. 24 Mins……
The same people that caused this Financial Mess(RUBIN, VOLKER, PAULSON, and BERNANKE), have now been placed into various places within the OBAMA Administration to “FIX” the problems they created. I urge you to spend some time watching this movie, and if you agree, let your friends know about it also. Thank You, Sincerely, Simply A Person That Loves This Great Country, and his fellowman…..
Is THIS how the bank bailout money is being used?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eSVIXQzsFs&feature=player_embedded
This is very, very good Christine. As i’ve said before, the actions of the banks and the politicians they have put into power are both criminal and nothing short of treason against the United States of America and its people and constitution, this illustrates the sheer corruption and criminal co-operation between the two better than anything ive see thus far and is absolutely true as well.
Whether or not it will lead to the total privatization of all public assets as he predicts, or will result in a socialist government as it did where i came from, where the population was taxed 80 + cents on the dollar for the government to pay the banks, i don’t know, either one will result in the same effect on the population i’d expect.
In my current estimation, America is finished, and the dream of its founding fathers is already dead. The people simply are too stupid to realize it yet, and by the time they do it will be too late. If by some miracle the proposal i posted here or something like it could get into wide enough circulation and motivate enough people to act to shut down the system before they secure the absolute power they are after, then we would still have a chance, but i don’t think this is likely to happen either. Most people are still too busy playing sports or riding motorcycles in order to take the time to figure out whats being done to them and what the consequences will be, and as such, i don’t think America has a hope in hell.
Anyway, thanks for the link, your coming up with some very good information here. I just wish everyone in the country would find it and take the time to watch it. Then do something about it as they should have long ago.
I sent your proposal out to the people I know soon after you posted it. Not one response in return. People are in denial. If they choose not to see it, then it is not happening. I sent info to a friend and the response back is…”Oh, I just bought a HDTV, how are things up there?” What?!! That’s all he has to say? You are right.
It has been safe in America for many years, but our safety is rapidly disappearing. There has been much info to assimilate within a short period of time. I know the govt meant for their actions to be this quick for just this reason–difficult for us to organize as a force against them. And to be honest, I frequently think, well know I know, but what can I do? How can we return to our Republic that was sent up for us so many years ago that has been slowly erroding away? The people we have turned to in govt are merely high paid actors.
It’s very emotional for me. I love my freedom. I love America. But not what the U.S., a federal corporation is doing to my homeland. The country I thought did so much good in the world I am learning indeed has not and now this “government” that resides on American soil is not truly American nor dedicated to serving Americans at all. Honest leaders like Ron Paul are in short supply…and we need more of them now.
It is difficult right now being the ones who know, but it will be more difficult for those who have denied or ignored it. Lots more info links at the upper tab “OUR WORLD” or below at the “EARTH” tab. http://livingquests.com
Oh Christine your so right, the principles of individual freedom and justice on which America are founded are about the only thing left in this world that i actually believe in, and to see the single and only good place left in this world being destroyed as my former country was, is the most terrible thing that i could imagine. If it does happen then the best possible thing any of us could wish for would be some cataclysmic event that would send humanity the way of the dinosaurs. Then at least the bastards would be gone nor would there be anyone left for them to rule over and inflict misery and suffering on. For the rest of us that is the only possible good thing that could happen, in view of the lives we will have under their power.
Thanks for sending out the proposal, it will certainly help and if you don’t get responses, don’t worry, they have it, and things will get worse instead of better, so there’s a very small chance that some will act on it and that they will be enough to put and end to the problem, and this is better than no chance at all. At least we both did something. Lol there’s a couple of church organizations getting involved in this too, they view this as the equivalent of Christ casting the money changers out of the temple, so who knows. All we can do is hope.
Anyway, thanks, and you take care
Oh, I have had the vision of Jesus turning over the tables of the moneychangers and have commented on it more than once in this forum. 2,000 years later and we are still voting in the criminals. It is the only time I can recall that Jesus lost it and got really angry. He knew what money would do, the corruptness. Through money, we artificially set a value on things, people, our talents and giftedness, and that is a lie. We are not the value someone else decides we are worth, nor our possessions. The elite think so because that is what they covet, but it all a deceptive lie. We are far more valuable than that. Life is valuable, WE ARE, not the money, not the things. I too imagine a world without the need or use for money where we share this tiny little planet and all of the abundance. There is no scarcity except what the corporations and govt do with the supply and monetary systems that give to some and deprive others. It’s not right. When we value our world, respect the earth, and love and appreciate one another, then we will see the transformation we have long desired. Peace and Harmony will come.
There is one thing about the best laid plans, speaking of the elite’s plans, plans never turn out the way they hoped. There is always a glitch and I’m counting on the glitch to turn the tide in the favor of the people all over this earth (excluding those who would do harm) who are rooting for America to win this battle that is within…for they too want a free world. Without America there is no free world. The Christ within each of us must win this battle.
Hi again Christine;
LOL I’m replying to your last reply to which there was no further reply option. We really do think very much alike and as with Christ, this is the one thing that makes me truly angry, as i see the potential for the wonderful happiness and prosperity we could have as a nation and as individuals, and what is being denied to us by these cheats and scam artists, with their criminal and treasonous practices, so it is a very accurate comparison.
In regards to my current view of God, about the only book in the bible that i’m believing right now is the book of Job, where God gave Satan permission to curse him and inflict suffering and misery on him so that the two of them could make bets on what his reaction was going to be. This is in complete and total conflict with everything else that the bible says about God and both can’t be true. Based what ive seen and experienced in this lifetime, and based on human history, the only view of God that can be true is the one in the book of Job, which pretty much ensures that God and Satan are working in collusion with each other, just as do our banks and politicians. I expect God to give Satan permission to simply curse any of our efforts to undo this, so that the two of them can entertain themselves with all of the suffering and misery that will be created once again. I’ve been seeing both of them in the same light and as the same person for quite some time now. Unfortunately, i can’t turn my back on the principles of love, freedom and justice established by Christ, even though they seem to be designed simply to make those of us who support them into victims, and i have certainly received far more curses than blessings as a result of supporting these principles. My single and only hope at this point is that God will prove me wrong, i just have very little faith or hope in him to do so at this point, as it seems he would rather love and bless the culprits who provide him with his source of entertainment.
Again, you are absolutely right about everything you say. Its not so much money that is the problem, but its use and control as a means to establish power. If by some miracle that could be eliminated and it could simply become a tool to allow us to trade with and benefit each other, and distributed according to what we could produce, then it would no longer be a worry and their would be no scarcity. We are more than capable of producing an abundance for both our mutual and individual benefit beyond our wildest imaginations. All that is lacking is sufficient means to pay for it, as the cheats who produce nothing, keep removing it from the system. At that point, then our lives will become valuable, and until then they will be much more a curse than a blessing, as the banks have made them for the entire world over the course of the past 1000 years or so.
The climate has to be better now. Everyone is waking up to the 1 party system we have. Those for tyranny are in control, and the only ones running. A true libertarian, or a true republican, such as Dr. Paul must have a chance now if ever.
Hi Jeremy, your absolutely right, people are waking up. The problem is they were waking up before the last presidential election as well and Dr. Paul was coming in with over 40 % of the support in the initial straw poles, which was 2 and 3 times the support of any of the other popular candidates. Generally the parties use these in order to determine who would be their presidential candidate, but the republican party was told by the banks that they were going to throw the election rather than let him run, and that’s exactly what they did as well.
If we don’t as a population eliminate the banks so they will no longer have the power to influence the election process, and hence control the politicians “they” elect for their own benefit, there isn’t a hope in hell of Dr. Paul, or any true libertarian or republican ever being elected, and if they are the banks will simply have them assassinated before they can do anything.
Scroll down and have a look at the proposal i posted a few days ago, the “New American Revolution”. If you agree with it, then copy it and paste it into an email and send it to everyone on your list. If you don’t agree with everything then change what you think you need to, but just keep the dates and the course of action the same so that everyone can act effectively and together to make this happen.
If this gets into the hands of enough people they will do it, and the problem will be solved. Then we can finally have a free election where someone like Dr. Paul will have a chance, otherwise its never going to happen. If its going to happen then it will be the people themselves that make it possible, and in order to do that they simply have to be organized into a common course of action that they all agree on, and i think they will agree on this, and do it as well.
GOVERNMENT OWNS IT “ALL” BY INVESTMENT
Now the Key Question is: Do you own Government?
Or, does Government own you?
http://cafr1.com/
State, County, And Local Governments Hide Trillions
http://www.svpvril.com/cafrupdate.html
More Common Law materials
http://www.svpvril.com/svpweb5.html#social
Christine, this is interesting. I only had a chance to take a brief look at the links and haven’t gone through them in detail yet. While somewhat vague in its intent, which seems to be primarily to raise money, this is a good illustration of the difference between bank controlled socialism or a free society and economy.
Today Government does own us, and the banks own the government. The purpose is to tax and mortgage the population into abject poverty to pay the banks and establish and maintain absolute power for them. We’ve also seen nothing yet compared to what is coming if things are left alone. Under any definition of a free society or economy, the people must own the government, manage the currency and economy for their own benefit through the government, so the government can pay the people what they rightfully own and have created themselves.
The question is can we motivate the population to act in their own benefit and get rid of the banks, and take control and ownership of the government as they should have had all along. Right now we still have a chance, it wont last for long.
David: We better hurry! You’re right though, we still have time.
This whole series is quite interesting, but this one shows the power of the people and winning.
The Corporation – Psychopath Inc. – PART 14 of 15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLGzSVtEDkE&feature=related
You spoke about crashing the financial system…it appears that “they” are already planning to do exactly that. Take a listen. This whole series is good too.
David Icke talks to Max Igan 4/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lns-15KkT0&feature=related
If we could get the majority of the people to understand this, we could
turn our country back from the precipice over which it is about to
plunge…..
” Gubmint” and How “Gubmint Works
Once upon a time the government had a vast scrap yard in the middle of a
desert. Congress said, “Someone may steal from it at night.” So
they created a night watchman position and hired a person for the job.
Then Congress said, “How does the watchman do his job without
instruction?” So they created a planning department and hired two
people, one person to write the instructions, and one person to do
time studies.
Then Congress said, “How will we know the night watchman is doing the
tasks correctly?” So they created a Quality Control department and
hired two people. One to do the studies and one to write the reports.
Then Congress said, “How are these people going to get paid?” So They
created the following positions, a time keeper, and a payroll officer,
Then hired two people.
Then Congress said, “Who will be accountable for all of these people?”
So they created an administrative section and hired three people, an
Administrative Officer, Assistant Administrative Officer, and a Legal
Secretary.
Then Congress said, “We have had this command in operation for one
Year and we are $18,000 over budget, we must cutback overall cost.”
So they laid off the night watchman.
NOW slowly, let it sink in.
Quietly, we go like sheep to slaughter.
Does anybody remember the reason given for the establishment of
the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY…. during the Carter Administration?
(I remember there were gasoline lines , and gas shortage and gas price hike)
Anybody?
Anything?
No?
Didn’t think so!
Bottom line. We’ve spent several hundred billion dollars in support of
an agency…the reason for which not one person who reads this can
remember!
Ready??
It was very simple…and at the time, everybody thought it very
appropriate.
The Department of Energy was instituted on 8-04-1977.
TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL.
Hey, pretty efficient, huh???
AND NOW IT’S 2009 — 32 YEARS LATER — AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS
“NECESSARY” DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR. THEY HAVE 16,000 FEDERAL
EMPLOYEES AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES; AND LOOK AT THE JOB
THEY HAVE DONE! THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY, “WHAT WAS I
THINKING?”
Ah, yes — good ole bureaucracy.
AND, NOW, WE ARE GOING TO TURN THE BANKING SYSTEM, HEALTH CARE, AND THE
AUTO INDUSTRY OVER TO THE SAME GOVERNMENT?
HELLOOO! Anybody Home?
No War
No Poverty
No Money
(music)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcoNVOgjZhI
Check this out from Kucinich!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8OjgN-3ZDA
Thanks David and Nate, I also have to somewhat return to the real world and continue my research and clinical work. I hope to keep reading and posting. Have a good week guys!
Jugger Grimrod
David,
It appears we are back to talking past each other. I will simply ask you to consider that the government, no matter how established, is not the people. The monetary power cannot lie in the hands of both the government and the people at the same time.
Secondly, I strongly encourage you to investigate the difference between full reserve banking and fractional reserve banking. I think your mind could very well be changed as a result. I’d recommend Rothbard’s The Mystery of Banking. Banking is not an inherently corrupt practice. Nor is the act of charging interest. Both practices perform valuable social functions when kept honest through sound money.
You say you want freedom for the people. But at the same time you want the act of banking to be destroyed. What if the people want to engage in honest (full reserve) banking? Would you seriously deny them this freedom? Again, there are societal benefits to banking. While not apparent at first glance, (especially considering the central/fractional reserve banking system of today has so obscured the picture) they certainly do exist. To give you a very small snap shot, banks allow for savings and investment to occur on a mass scale. Savings (under consumption) allows for capital accumulation to take place. Those people looking for a return on their savings (interest) give their money to banks knowing it will be lent out to entrepreneurs. It is through entrepreneurs that new wealth is created and distributed to the masses.
Anyway, this has been quite fun. If only we could have done it over beers.
Well this is something which we don’t agree on, You maintain that it is impossible for a government to be “of the people” under any circumstances, and i maintain that it is only impossible because of private corruption of that government, and that eliminating the means and the power to corrupt it will also make this possible. Of the very few things in this world that i actually believe in, the United States and the principles of individual freedom on which it was founded are first and foremost among them. Government by the people, for the people and of the people was part and parcel of that, with the constitution being added in order to further protect individual rights which even such a government had no right to abrogate under any circumstances. If you read the statements of virtually all of the founding fathers, they did the best they knew how in order to secure these things, but they knew full well that they hadn’t done enough, leaving it up to us to learn from history and further secure them in such a manner that they would remain so. If we as a population actually do this, i have no doubt that it can be accomplished as well, as by now we’ve seen in every detail just how the system can be corrupted. Jugger has proposed some very effective methods of further securing these things and i’ve also used the Swiss example in response to one of his posts which would be a very effective addition toward accomplishing this as well, especially in regards to how they put the true intent of our second amendment into practice, leaving the only military power in the hands of the population itself.
In regards to banking, i simply can’t see how it can be tolerated or how any economy can sustain itself over the long term while it is being practiced. If you forget all the complicated theories which would make it appear to be workable and think if it in simple terms any form of interest which cannot be forced back into circulation immediately must eventually cause the system to collapse on itself. It could work if enough free fiat money was injected into the system to replace all the interest that was taken out, but then if they were to ever inject that interest back into the system it would upset the economic balance and give them the power to devalue the currency. With gold, silver of any hard form of currency, maintaining a banking system is even less feasible, as these currencies have a finite supply and more cannot be created. If being withdrawn in interest even a few percent each year eventually the banks will have it all along with absolute power and control of it as well.
When individuals, business and industry receive money, they generally spend it back into circulation as its only purpose for them is to acquire more useful things, or use it to expand their production capacity by purchasing materials, facilities or equipment, all of which results in some form of production which benefits the economy. In order to collect interest no production is needed, as no useful work needs to be done and it is only the banks who can actually provide a constant and consistent drain on the supply of currency without actually putting anything back into circulation and also the only circumstance in which money charged and paid for nothing.
In terms of the “people” which means individuals within the population in this case, having the right to loan money and charge interest in return for this, this is equivalent to saying that they should have the right to break into your home or business and steal your property. A right which they would have except for the violation of your right to be secure in your person and property and keep what you have justly earned. As such it becomes a criminal practice. Savings have no benefit to any economy as they take useful currency out of circulation, and loaning those savings for interest takes out even more of it. If we were to have taxation on anything, then it should be on savings instead of income, as saved money is not working toward anyone’s benefit until it is spent, including the person that saves it. If people want to use existing money to generate more money, then let them invest it in some business engaged in some form of useful production or service and then collect their share of the returns from that investment. Then take those profits and re-invest them for the purpose of creating more useful production or services. This can be done better independently of the banks than through them, and simply means more profit for both the investor and the business he’s investing in, and consequently more useful work to benefit the economy. If someone is not willing to take the risk of doing this and put the money to use for some useful purpose, then neither are they entitled to make any profit from it. Nothing ventured nothing gained. I simply can’t see the justification for any form of private interest or banking, as it simply cannot provide any tangible benefit to anyone and must eventually establish power and control for someone at the expense of the rest of the population. To me such a thing as “honest banking” simply can’t exist, as the two are contradictions in terms, and at best it can provide a small and temporary convenience to society at a terrible price later on. I just can’t see it as anything other than a scam and a criminal practice which no one has the right to engage in.
Every society which has tolerated the existence of banking institutions has eventually collapsed to the extent where their entire populations have been robbed of any and all individual freedom and any and all hope of any form of prosperity, with America being the last one on the list. That collapse is taking place as we speak. Incidentally it was exactly this which put Hitler into power, illustrating another inherent consequence of allowing such a system to achieve its inevitable result. Nazi Germany is a prime example where a country, made completely destitute by the banks, was built into a major power within the space of 5 years, that came very close to conquering the world even though they were outnumbered 30 to 1. This was done simply by getting rid of the banks and creating artificial money to pay for what the country could already produce. Regardless of its misuse, prosperity was generated, and the German people were working and productive so for them it was an improvement over what they had before. This also represents a terrible indictment over what we have been tolerating, and it’s amazing how accurately our current bank controlled political establishment has been following Hitler’s blueprint for securing their own power, along with all others in the world who have already secured that power, as they’ve seen it work for him and have the same objectives for themselves. Banking has been proven time and again to be unsustainable, and i see no possible way that it can be.
If those like yourself and Dr. Paul can succeed in establishing a hard currency, and if it can restore some substantial level of prosperity to the American people for some time, which i think it would, id certainly be willing to live with that until such a time as the banking system which was still tolerated had once again managed to siphon off enough of that currency in order to establish power with it, and this might indeed take a very long time as well. If you were not willing to tolerate a banking system then it could just as easily result in lasting prosperity as any other system. I just see more potential in an artificial currency created by our capacity to produce, as this is not, and never will be a finite quantity. Again whether such a currency would result in lasting prosperity would be contingent on whether or not a banking system was tolerated, and again, if it were, it may also take a very long time for them to establish control of it as well, but eventually this is inevitable with any form of banks or private interest involved in either system.
In any event, all of this is beside the point as without collapsing the current banking system and eliminating their power to prevent either one of these from happening, neither one can happen. If either one of them do happen we will no longer have a banking system to worry about as its elimination is the only thing that will make any choice possible. Hence the purpose of my proposal. If this can be accomplished then the people themselves will be free to choose either of the systems we are proposing here or a completely different one they would deem to best suit their interests, and all we can do is propose options to them at that point and let them decide. For now, the single and only useful thing we can do is try to motivate them to act collectively while they still can and give themselves that choice. Giving them the freedom to make that choice is something i think we all agree on, so lets see what we can do to make that happen. It’s also possible that the current banking system might allow people to make some choice in a limited way with their continued involvement, as they are currently living in terror of the American people due to the sustained effort of the population in arming themselves since the last presidential election. I don’t think this was a reaction they anticipated, and i do think at this point they are afraid that they may have bitten off more than they can chew in creating the current economic crisis. I do however think it preferable that the people simply act collectively and eliminate their power so that they can make that choice by right and not by permission. It is only by right that any form of true and lasting freedom and prosperity can be established. Both, after all, are rights to be claimed and not privileges to be granted.
It has been fun and an interesting debate. Although we have different perspectives, we still share common objectives and i would love to enjoy a beer with you anytime as well
Nate I think you have some good points. Over political or religous tyrany was avoided in the Constitution. But a back door was left open. Through the MONEY POWER (Van Buren always capitalized it!) and through the slow corruption of campaign finance those with the most cash (bankers, corporations) etc have snuck in and wield enormous influence. I think the goal would be to lessen or eliminate this influence through further law, amendments to the constitution etc. As Zarlenga writes in his book, the MONEY POWER will always be a fourth branch of government it is not safe to leave it soley in private hands. As for free competition in currencies or free banking or whatever I think he addresses that in his book and certainly I haven’t though it completely through but it seems their proposals are reasonable as a start. Anyway, thanks for posting.
Jugger
My goals as President:
1. Restore the money system to the people, end the private strangehold on money. Pass the American Monetary Act. This pays off the entire national debt in 1 year saving the public over 400 billion dollars of interest to private banks.
2. Public financing of all elections, no more legalized bribery of politicians
3. Repeal the 16th amendment
4. Ban all government witholding from your paycheck, you pay on April 15th only.
5. Replace the corporate income tax with a small tax of fossil fuel ($30/ton) to start
6. Bring all the soldiers home from Iraq, Afghanistan, Japan, S. Korea, Germany
7. Copy the Swiss and Netherlands healthcare systems; Eliminate employer sponsored healthcare. No one is exlcuded because of pre-existing condition and no one is dropped coverage. mostly nonprofit private healthcare and private insurance under government superivision. These two countries cover everyone with high quality care at 60% of what we spend. Phase out Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA over the next 40 years by banning new entrants. Physicians would no longer accept insurance, they would be paid directly by the patient and would be expected to treat anyone in need by offering discounts to low income individuals. This is party of their social responsibility to the American public (I am a physician and so is my wife)
8. Make Social Security optional
9. Achieve complete energy independence in 20 yrs. Start a manhattan project level effort to produce hydrocarbons from CO2 H20 and reneweable energy by using biotechnology, synthetic biology and nanotechnology
10. Eliminate the Department of Education and HUD. These functions are the purview of state and local govt
11. Eliminate any funding for state and local police by the Federal government
12. Eliminate any business cartelization or monopoly. No more big to fail. If you are to big to fail, you are to big to exist.
The following reforms if implemented will stop the ongoing rape of the American public by the banksters and their corporate allies and save tens of trillions of dollars over the next several decades. It will give back trillions of dollars to the American people.
JuggerGrimrod
Hehehehehe, well you certainly have my vote. Lol There’s no possible way i’d want the job myself. I just want to try and motivate some action here somehow, so that the problem, and threat can be eliminated, so i can quit worrying about this and go back to having a wonderful time in my shop creating all kinds of interesting and useful machines.
It’s fascinating that both you and your wife are physicians and your proposal 7 certainly carries a lot of weight in view of that. I think we can both see all of this being paid for by a true public currency along with the elimination of all taxes re: 4 & 5 as well. I doubt that too many people would complain. 
It’s interesting that you mention Switzerland. We have some things we can learn from them, and they may also be of interest to Nate, in illustrating ways to actually secure a government for the people. One is government by referendum, with representatives having the ability the power to propose action but, no power to pass it except by vote. Two is that the Swiss actually have put our second amendment into practice, by enlisting every man in the country into the Militia, and requiring them to keep their arms and equipment in their homes so they will be ready for immediate use if needed. This would seem to pretty much ensure the best possible control over the political system that the people could have, and no one but the population would have much means to actually enforce anything the state tried to do were this control to be lost somehow. I actually have no idea how this came about, but i’ve known many people from Switzerland over the years and this is how it is.
Anyway, i love this, and there are many ways and means, both tried and proven and yet to be established, to consider in making things work, and keeping them working for the benefit of our freedom and prosperity. Once again the people themselves acting to eliminate the threat which is preventing this from happening will be the key, and then simply thinking for the purpose of making things work and better securing our freedom and prosperity will be the solution, and most of the things needed to do this have been thought of already.
Glad you enjoyed that. I just had to vent a bit. There certainly is a lot of distrust of govt in the US, more than Europe. I think a lot of this spills into the explosive healthcare issue. People associate govt funded healthcare with dysfxn, however the canadian system works reasonably well in that they cover everyone for half the cost. Neverthless the Swiss system probably would be our best alternative. Note that hospitals and physicians bear much of the blame here it is not just the insurers who have really become a cartel almost as bad as the bankers, etc. Hospitals for too long have focused on the bottom line and filling their operating rooms and radiology suites with expensive procedures. Note that this happens because for a regular medical admission (pneumonia) hospitals may actually lose money. i.e. the cost of paying for the nurses, drugs, etc to take care of that pneumonia actually costs more than they get paid by insurance because of capitation. On the doctor side, we have played the role of patsies pretending that these are forces totally beyond our control. We have not even attempted to gain the necessary legal and business knowledge to reform the system. The AMA opposed national health care under FDR and has NEVER put foward a comprehensive private alternative like the Swiss and Dutch systems. This is pathetic considering their considerable resources, thats why I am not a member of the AMA. What cracks me up is that the repugs say they are “standing by” on healthcare. We have been debating this issue since 1912 under Teddy Roosevelt. Oh yeah, standing by for 97 yrs. I guess my point is we either reign in the profit motive in healthcare or costs will continue to explode. My fear is that the Dems will get a bill passed, costs will inevtiabley go up to 20+of the GDP, they will get blamed. The rethugs will retake power and continue their criminal regime. Note that I consider Ron Paul a real conservative and not really a Republican at all. He really is more a Libertarian at heart and a good man.
Cheers
Jugger Grimrod
Yes, i agree 100 % about Ron Paul, he is a good, good man, and a true friend of liberty. If you look at his political history each and every one of his actions, has been for the purpose of establishing more freedom for the American people.
I would love to see him as our President at some point, and he would have been too were it not for the manipulation of the past presidential election. I don’t know if you were watching the initial straw poles, but he was coming in with 2 and 3 times the support of any other candidate (upwards of 40% in most of them) and he was what the people wanted.
The desire for freedom is there, the only problem is we have to somehow eliminate the power that is preventing the people from having it, and the people will have to do this themselves if its going to happen.
Lord Christopher Monckton Speaking in St. Paul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stij8sUybx0&feature=player_embedded#
Here is Zarlenga’s refutation of Menger’s Origin of Money for any one who is interested.
http://www.monetary.org/mengerrefutepowerpoint.ppt
Nate, you have to realize that most “money” is just blips on a fking computer it has no physical basis. The claim that government is always inflationary is simply wrong. Colonial scrip, the continental currency, and greenbacks were good money systems. I might partially agree with you if you want to buy a car with a bar of gold, go for it. But for the purpopses of organizing a complex economy government created money debt free is necessary. Anyone I think we all agree on many good points. The really really hard core Libertarians should chill out a bit with the anti-government proganda. Yes our system has been corrupted but governments in Europe are other places, cananda, are probabaly more reponsive to their citizens. Do yall think that a multiparty democracy would be better than this two party piece of sht that we have now. I haven’t read much on that?
I made no comment on Europe or other countries. As far as I’m concerned, they are free to do as they please and rule themselves. If we had a free country unshackled by government control of money/credit, our prosperity would be all the evidence needed to convince others to follow the example.
Also, you seriously think the continental was a sound currency? The destruction of the contintental through hyperinflation was what lead the Founders to write “gold and silver” into the Constitution. More later…
Nate, the continentals were openly counterfeited by the British! That is why they were inflationary. However we issued them reponsibly. Zarlenga talks about that at length in his book. You should read it, I think it may change your perspective slightly. Anyway I think we agree on much.
Cheers
This is good, both your statement and the article as well. Hehehehe, if i were to put what you and the article are correctly saying into very simplest terms, id say that the farmer down the road would be able to pay me in pigs and chickens for fixing his plow, but what happens when he needs a new tractor and the steel mill wont accept the pigs and chickens as payment for the materials i need to build him one ?. Free and competing currencies are great, but we still need a standard that everyone will accept without question, which instead of buying power will generate prosperity. They have been made to work many times before and can be made to work again. Any failures were not in the concept of the free currency but in its administration and there have been more successes than failures, whereas anything else has done nothing but fail.
In terms of the the governments in other places, as i am from one of these as well, and theirs have been much further corrupted than ours yet, and represent the end result of what the bastards want to accomplish here. The responsiveness to their citizens, is equivalent to a farmer feeding and medicating his livestock for the purpose of maintaining them for his own benefit and purposes. This is what the citizens are to the state in most of these places, and in terms of the citizens actually having the freedom or means to accomplish what they would wish to do there is very little chance of that. I remember free medical, which cost anyone who was actually earning anything over 0.75 on the dollar in income taxes, with most of what was left being taken up with other accumulated taxes on the things they bought. I also remember entire towns and entire provinces on permanent welfare, where not one single person was usefully and productively employed, due to the lack of currency in circulation to employ them, resulting in further taxation on those of us who were. Lol at one point they even decided to tax us with a surtax on the taxes we were already paying and since only the police had guns, no one had the means to kill them and they managed to do it too.
The bottom line is though that the only reason for the taxes was that the socialist governments could use them to pay the banks which had put them in power, so if we can get rid of them, i see no reason why we would not be able to have the benefits without the consequences. I think it would be the people’s choice to have the government provide the bare minimum in public services which were actually necessary, and leave the rest of the money in the peoples hands to accomplish the rest for themselves. Alternately, having the option of the state providing services without the consequence of taxation, would certainly keep private interests in line and prevent them from colluding with each other to rape the population for far more than their services were worth. As long as it is in the people’s hands to decide, and those who don’t want the services free to decline them along with the costs, then all is good and well.
Re: the two party system, well where i came from there were 4, and the banks established the leader of each one of them. The political system was such that when any party won an “election” with a majority the party leader became god, so it made no difference how we voted. The same seems to have happened with our two party system, especially in terms of the presidential options, only the president doesn’t have absolute power so it has taken them much longer to try and establish the control they have in other places. Our constitution has also gone a long way to delaying the destruction of our freedoms and even with full control of the government and economy they still have that to contend with, and the population, including a good portion of the us military, still maintains loyalty to it as well, this terrifies the crap out of them. More parties might be a good thing, and i’m surprised that so many are still maintaining loyalty to the two we have at this point. I know the majority of the public was both fed up with the republicans but didn’t want the socialism associated with the democrats in the last one and i actually expected a large turnout for the libertarians. I guess they still thought they had to vote one way or the other (i don’t think most even knew that there were other options out there, just as most were completely unaware of Ron Paul’s candidacy with the republicans, again, bank control of the mainstream media during the election process, he was speaking the people mind but they just didn’t let them hear what he had to say). It would result in many minority governments, and the only time back home where we weren’t subjected to further taxes, further hardship, and further laws abrogating our freedoms, were where this was the case and no one had the majority power to pass them. Nothing was accomplished then, nothing good which was impossible due to the banks control anyway, but no further bad during these times either. We generally had one guarantee, this year was going to be terrible and next year much, much worse. Without a majority, things didn’t get worse for a short time, they just stayed the same.
Thanks again Jugger, i’ve really been enjoying your posts and they always spark some interesting thought and debate. Hehehehe, tomorrow i have to get off this thing and get back to work though, I’m trying to develop a new project which might have a chance of making it possible to survive in this economic mess for awhile, save the clients money and help them get through it too, and generate some paying work for a few others who have none now as well. Previous ones have been big ticket items going to people with money and their not spending a nickel anymore as they don’t know where the next one will come from. If successful, hopefully this will keep me and a few other people alive until we can motivate everyone who’s not on here to think and act and solve our collective problem. It will have to happen soon though, for all our sakes.
I am quite aware that money is created via blips on a computer screen. However, I have never stated that government management of the monetary policy is always inflationary. A brief look at history or theory would destroy such an absurd thought. I merely feel that the government cannot be trusted with the monetary power. The temptation to inflate is just too difficult to resist. Being the government, they are not subject to the natural free market checks and regulations that exist. That is, government can inflate, enjoy the benefits of the inflation, and pass the suffering onto the people through deficits, taxes, and higher prices. Such a vicious scheme is not possible in a free market. No private company has the ability to run such enormous deficits for a sustained period of time. Eventually the bills come due and a private business cannot raise revenue through taxation.
As for your “fiat systems can work…look at colonial scrip, the continental, and Lincoln’s greenback for proof” argument, go ahead and google “not worth a continental” then google “Lincoln greenback inflation”. As for colonial scrip. As I said to David, not all the colonies issued scrip with equal success. Or with success at all. Some produced too many bills and had to deal with the subsequent inflation. Yes, under Ben Franklin, Pennsylvania operated with colonial scrip quite well. However, there are two important points of interest. The colonial scrip of Penn was not just backed by “the full faith and credit of the government” as is advocated by Zarnlenga and Ms. Ellen Brown of Web of Debt. Penn’s colonial scrip was backed by land. Also, people with the integrity and honesty of Ben Franklin are rare indeed. The system would fast prove a disaster under a less virtuous person. The beauty of privately issued commodity money is it integrates honesty and integrity into the system itself.
But, again, by all means bring back the Greenback party. Let their ideas and solutions freely compete along side those put forth by the likes of Mises, Rothbard, Hazlitt, Hayek, and the contemporary Austrians. No money or method enjoys the privilege of legal tender status. If it remains free, the best (most honest) money/method will win out and be chosen by the people through their economic activity.
Choice in Currency…
http://mises.org/resources/3983#1b
There are a number of good ideas on this post. I agree with Nate that government as it exists right now is highly corrupted by the banking cartel as well as other corporate interests. It seems sensible that not only should private banks not be in charge of our money, we really need some kind of public campaign financing instead of the legalized bribery system we have now. Some honest Congressional reps have blogged on the Huffington Post that people in Congress spend almost half their time just raising money. Of couse who ever gives you the most money you fell entitled to. Im a physician, so it is similar to way to cozy relationships that have been established between physicians and drug companies/other health care industries. It is not that I am handed an envelope of money and told to presribe this and that. Their influence is much more subtle than that. They buy people lunch, they lobby congress, they are present at virtually every physician conference. Over time they get you think that every patient with high blood pressure or high cholesterol needs 90 millions drugs a day for life. It seems sensible to give Congress that power to create money where it belongs in the Constitution, prevent the banks from creating money through fractional reserve bullsht and have some kind of interest rate cap. Not paying more in interest than the principal seems reasonable. Also to ban private campaign contributions completely and go to 100% public financing.
Another shift in wealth coming soon if not stopped, only weeks to stop it…Copenhagen Treaty
Check out my post and longshotlouie’s on Global Warming. This is the sleezy way they are working towards Global Governance (NWO)and a huge shift in wealth. There is a 1-1/2 hour speech on youtube also. UN document is provided at my post.
From the American Monetary Institute:
Inflation: Too much money chasing too few goods? – Hardly!
by
Robert Poteat
That more money is available than goods is a nearly axiomatic definition of inflation in economic texts, media, and politics. But empirical data from direct observation indicates it is not true in the current economic environment.
One can find many retail businesses offering discounts, and failing businesses; while advertising is a multi-billion dollar enterprise. One can easily find retail stores full of merchandise for sale. This is direct evidence that there is not enough money to liquidate what is available for sale. Yet, prices keep going up. Therefore, it cannot be too much money for consumption causing price increases.
Consumer debt is about $2.5 trillions for consumer goods that have been “sold” but have not yet been paid for; and, still, retail stores are full of merchandise. Advertising of sales discounts is constant along with easy credit.
Inflation is often expressed as rising prices, but many things such as scarcity, seasons, fads, war, and weather affect prices along with the phenomenon of inflation.
Another way of expressing the inflationary effect on prices is to call it devaluation of money.
Debt is bank-issued credit used as money. Examination of the bank credit mechanism shows that when banks issue credit as loans, banks only create the principal of the loan and not the interest. If not all of the interest charges are spent directly back into circulation, then there is a shortfall. This creates a demand for more and more loans to keep up with interest payments. In practice, the system requires the constant growth of credit/debt used as money. It is inherently and unavoidably inflationary when expressed as quantity of credit/debt in circulation without respect to production and consumption.
The growth of debt is confirmed in statistics. Credit Market Debt, as published in The Statistical Abstract of the United States and Federal Reserve Bulletin, has grown from $5 trillion in 1981 to $52 trillion in the fourth quarter of 2008.
From the same sources above, the imputed total assets of the United States increased from $17 trillion in 1981 to $141 trillion in the fourth quarter of 2008. What accounts for such an increase can only be attributed to inflation as decreased value of money. There is no more land. Resources have been used so there is less to be priced. The environment has been polluted making some places unusable, consequently, worth less. Some increase in housing, commercial building, and infrastructure has happened but not enough to offset the losses. If total assets, including the additions directly above, were accounted in tangible measurements such as acres of land, barrels of oil, standing board feet of timber, remaining ores, condition of fisheries, depth of top soil, housing, commercial building, and infrastructure, it would be seen that assets are reduced. Only the prices of assets increased.
Price increases are related to the exponential growth of debt. The bank credit/debt money system is inherently and unavoidably inflationary. It is necessary to raise prices to recover the costs of exponentially accumulating debt. Asset price inflations allow banks to create more credit/debt money, which in turn fuels further asset price inflations. These activities continually increase the overall debt burden on society, ultimately increasing costs and prices, i.e. inflation.
As shown above, banks have issued enormous amounts of credit/debt. Where did it go? It went into war, extreme stratification that led to speculation and other non-consumption sinks, leaving insufficient credit/debt to liquidate consumption goods even after massive accumulations of credit/debt used as money.
For decades Federal Reserve officials have claimed they fight inflation by raising interest rates. Since our economy runs entirely on credit/debt, raising interest rates increases the cost of all business. In terms of price increases as a measure of inflation, raising interest rates would be expected to increase inflation. If prices come down it is because of a squeeze on businesses and labor causing shutdown of production and increase in unemployment. It is anti-social not to mention classical double-think.
The time has come for monetary reform!
Hi Guys. Okay, we’ve been bitching and griping about legitimate problems here, but it’s time to do something about it. I know there’s many on here who agree with this, so whoever finds it, read it, and if you do agree, then copy and past it into an email and get it out to everyone on your list, ask them to forward it to everyone on theirs as well. If this can circulate through the population, and enough people get to know about this, they will participate in the plan and it will work.
Thanks
______________________________
THE NEW AMERICAN REVOLUTION – INDEPENDENCE DAY – JANUARY 1, 2010
INTRODUCTION:
We have reached a point in the history of our Great Nation, where the American people have had enough of the collusion between America’s banking system and the politicians whom they have put into power. The purpose of this has been the enslavement of our entire population for the purpose of satisfying the greed and lust for power of a few families who own and control our banking system. This has resulted in the current economic crisis, which has managed to permanently kill off the last remaining prosperity which still existed in this country, with no hope of it ever being restored. The Bank and corporate bailouts being practiced by both our Republican and Democratic parties, have been totally ineffective in restoring the current economic system, only leaving more money and power in the hands of the banks, who engineered this crisis in the first place, at the taxpayer’s expense. These will leave the next generation with a mountain of debt and taxation that they will never overcome, thereby forcing them into giving up our Constitution and any and all political and economic freedom in order to be able to eat. At this point the United States of America will cease to exist, and become like every other miserable place on this planet where this has already happened. This is of course the ultimate objective of the current economic system, which can only result in absolute power for the banks and the politicians they manipulate into supporting them, at the expense of the freedom and prosperity of everyone else.
America’s coffin is in the process of being nailed shut, it’s population is livid with rage over what’s being done to them, and feel helpless to do anything about it. At this point many are cutting into their food budgets to buy up every firearm and round of ammunition as fast as it can be manufactured, and before the current “Political Regime” can outlaw same, in order to give them the capability to resist what they deem to be inevitable.
The first problem is that although it seems a massive proportion of the population, are doing the one thing they can as individuals in order to try and secure their continued political freedom, with the only means still available. Short of actually using that means, nothing is currently being done to try and organize the population to act collectively for their own economic benefit, and eliminate the root cause of both our current economic disaster and the threat to our political freedoms, which are one and the same. The second problem is, that although the majority of the population seems aware of a very real and substantial threat to our continued freedom and existence, most are still substantially unaware of the exact nature and source of the threat. Through manipulation of our media and political system, the culprits have made sure they would remain unaware of this, and few are actually willing to take the time and effort in order to study the matter, and determine the cause and possible solutions on their own. If they did, they would all reach the same conclusions, which are shared by those of us who have, and which I will be outlining here. When the will to act is there, it still takes one person, in order to propose a means of action in order to get things started, and that is the purpose of this endeavor. Whether it will be effective or not in eliminating the threat and the problem, will all depend on how effectively those receiving this information distribute it among others. If this is sufficient, then on whether or not all in receipt of it will act collectively in order to accomplish the solution, so it is up to all of you to do something about it.
I will attempt to give those reading this some of my thoughts, which are shared by a great many who’s concerns are the freedom and prosperity of the American people. I will try to present them in terms that should be simple enough for most people to understand, and I will propose some solutions which anyone and everyone can act upon, which in my estimation have a very good chance of re-establishing and permanently securing, great freedom and prosperity for every generation to come, just as was the wish of this nations founding fathers.
If you love the United States of America, and wish to maintain the principles of individual freedom and justice on which it is established, then you owe it to yourself and everyone else in America to take the time to read this, and give it some long and careful thought. If after having done so, you find that you agree, then you must act on it, not only for your own benefit, but for the benefit and survival of the entire nation. To act will entail a very small amount of risk on the part of each individual doing so, but nothing compared to those taken by the great men who fought and died to establish the freedom we have enjoyed in this country for the past couple of hundred years, nor those who have fought and died to maintain it ever since. If you don’t agree with the solutions I’m proposing and see alternate ones that you think might work, then propose them as I am doing here, but if you love America, and if you Love freedom, then do something !. If you don’t, then you cannot love America and you don’t belong here, as the situation has gone way beyond where it can be simply left alone in the hope that it will resolve itself on it’s own, and every thinking person in America knows this as well.
THE PROBLEM:
I think what we need to understand here, is that money, whether gold, silver, paper or credit, is not real. It is a simple means of exchange, which is attributed value and allows a diverse range of people to trade with each other for their mutual benefit. What is also being forgotten, is that America’s first money had no intrinsic value, was not even an officially sanctioned form or currency. It was simply script, printed by the colonial governments at the time, and distributed among and for the benefit of the people in order to allow them to trade with each other. The money was free, and produced on behalf of and by the people themselves for their mutual benefit. The end result of this was that the 13 colonies had the highest standard of living of any place in the world, and many times that of the mother country, for the simple reason that enough was put into circulation to pay for everything that the people could produce. Then when the British Banks found out about this, got King George to outlaw the colonial script, and replace it with the British Pound, this changed to 75 % unemployment overnight. This is something they’ve managed to keep out of most of the common history books, but anyone even vaguely familiar with American history is aware of this, and it was this, and not a tax on tea which was the primary cause of the American Revolution as well. This is as it should be, as currency in any form is a public asset, which is used by and benefits the entire population. To put any form of control over this currency into anything but public hands is a recipe for disaster, and keeping it in public hands is the only possible way to ensure a free economy and maintain a truly free enterprise system, as this is the only possible way to prevent the currency from buying power. Power and freedom are opposites and cannot exist in the same space, one will always exist at the expense of the other, and in order to establish one the other must always be eliminated.
To break this down into simple terms, today’s economy in America and the rest of the world exists to serve the interests of the banks. They have been given control of our currency and credit by corrupt politicians from both major parties, have managed to assassinate the two presidents we have had who would have taken away their power to control same (no proof of this that would stand up in court obviously, but its a simple thing to figure out who stood to gain from their assassinations). Then through party manipulation and media control, they prevented the single and only candidate in the last presidential election, Dr. Ron Paul, who was not owing his political career to them, from having any chance at all in the election. The media control was to the extent where the majority of the population were not even aware he was running, and I expect that this is the first time that many receiving this have even heard of him. He was coming in with more than twice the popular support of any of the other candidates in the initial straw poles, and would have won the presidential election with a landslide if his party had given him a chance to run. The Republican party was well aware of this, but they were told by the banks that they were going to throw the election rather than let him run and they did just that . He was what the people wanted instead of the bad choices they were given by the banks, but the banks didn’t let us have him.
Since the banks exist as parasites, and contribute absolutely nothing of any tangible value to any of us, the only way they can maintain their existence is by establishing political power which must eventually lead to socialism as they must remove any and all freedom or any means that the people might have to get rid of them, and make them poor and dependent on the state, before they figure out that they would be better off without them and do so. The end result of our current economic system can accomplish nothing but this if its allowed to continue.
Since the greatest part of our national budget is going toward paying interest on the deficit, and since most people in this country are by now working over 3 weeks out of each month in order to pay interest on their mortgages and other credit, we have already become virtual slaves to them and once they remove our political freedom as well there will be absolutely nothing left. As an immigrant to this country, I’ve seen this happen already where i came from, they are following the blueprint to the letter, and if something isn’t done it will happen here, and soon. When it does, America will cease to exist and become like all the other miserable places in the world, where the purpose of the individual is to serve the state (hence the banks), instead of the state existing (at least in theory) to serve the individuals comprising it.
The bottom line is that interest in private hands is a terribly insidious thing and can only accomplish one thing as well. In order to sustain and grow an economy, you need to keep some form of currency in circulation in order to pay for what it can produce, and provide progressively more currency in order to sustain the growth of the economy as it takes place, instead of removing it incrementally in interest. As long as banks are allowed to exist and maintain control of that currency and / or it’s distribution, even if their interest rate is only 1 or 2 %, if they are allowed to keep it and cannot somehow be forced to put it back into circulation as soon as they get it, over 50 or 100 years they will have it all again, and then were right back to the same problem we have now. This is so simple and obvious that any six year old child who would think about the matter would figure it out in an instant. What shocks me is that the general public hasn’t done so yet. The reason is that they just don’t think, and instead just accept and believe the politically correct bullshit established by those who are perpetrating the scam on them, thus becoming the victims of their own stupidity and ignorance. This would actually become an even greater threat with a hard gold or silver based currency as some have been proposing. Until the last few years, the banks were at least creating large amounts of credit and putting it into circulation to replace some of what they were taking out in interest, and even though they were working toward our destruction, at least things were moving somewhat. It’s when they stopped issuing credit that the current economic crisis precipitated. With gold or silver, they would just keep accumulating it a few percent every year until it was all gone which would happen even faster than under the current system, as they could no longer create new credit to replace the currency they were taking out. If they were allowed to exist, they could not be allowed to keep even the smallest portion of their profits otherwise the system would eventually have to collapse on itself again, and if this is the case there can’t be any incentive to providing a banking service.
Now, if you take the combined annual profits of America’s Banks, as compared to the national budget, and you figure in the fact that most of the people in this country who are actually producing something and contributing to the benefit and well being of their fellow citizens, are having 60 – 80 % of what they produce consumed by the banks in interest (after taxes, which again are mostly interest). It should become obvious that without them the American people as a whole could experience prosperity far greater than any of their wildest imaginations. Further to this, simply regulating the currency in a sensible and beneficial manner in order to make sure there was always enough of it to pay for what we could produce would increase our production capacity to many times what it is today with what we already have, and produce an exponential growth in that production capacity in the years to come. Again the only possible outcome of this, is the average person would have many times more than they have today with the same amount of effort going into earning it, as we would be working to feed ourselves and not the interests of the parasites who are bleeding off the vast majority of what were producing now. I expect we would also be able to exist without taxes as well as the state should have more than enough means to finance its operations simply by putting the currency into circulation just as the banks are doing now. Further to this, if the economic growth generated in this country simply by having enough to pay for what we can already do would be sufficiently greater than the costs of the Government’s operations, which is inevitable, they would have no option but to distribute the additional currency required to pay for this economic growth among the entire population. This could result in a situation where everyone’s basic living could be paid for, above and beyond what they were able to earn, leaving everyone free to try to accomplish whatever they deemed possible, without the threat of disaster if things didn’t turn out as anticipated. This would of course entail our elected representatives acting for the benefit of the people, instead of feeding their own personal cravings for power, but without the banks control of our political system, we would actually have the opportunity to elect those who would do this as well. This would also be a very effective control on the size and the power of government, as anything they did, would have a direct and immediate impact on the entire population, and elicit a direct and immediate reaction from the population as well.
One of the great problems we have is that the vast majority of the population is absolutely terrified of having to think for themselves and they want to be told what to do. As a result they are simply too ignorant to realize what’s being done to them or what they could have, were this not the case. Since the banks have the money which they have stolen from us, and consequently the power to control our political system and media, to tell them what to think and do, they blindly follow and obey, as sheep being led to their own slaughter. The good thing now is that things have reached the point where even these are sensing a very real and dire threat to their freedom and continued existence, and simply need to be informed of the situation and given possible solutions on which they can act effectively for their mutual benefit.
This is also a problem which will not be solved through our democratic process, as in the case of both Lincoln and Kennedy the banks will simply assassinate any president or politician we elect who would pose a threat to their power and the continued enslavement of the American population. If this is going to happen, short of the solution I’m proposing here, it will take a second American Revolution as the banks and their control of our political system will have to be removed by the people by force of arms, and the threat to our freedom and prosperity will not cease to exist until each and every one of the individuals in charge of our banking system has been executed, 100 % of their assets seized by the population, and the practice of private banking outlawed for all time to come.
The single and only thing that gives me any hope for America at this point, is that the people seem to be currently preparing for exactly that. Since the last Presidential election they have been buying up every firearm and round of ammunition as fast as it can be produced, before the current government can pass laws eliminating their ability to do so. Since they inevitably must try to remove any and all political freedom in order to enforce the continued denial of our economic freedom, this does increase our chances of success against them when they do so as well. The problem will be that if it does come to the people going to war to defend their political freedom, will enough of them realize the source of the threat they are defending against and do something about that to prevent it from becoming a threat again ?. If they come to realize that it’s not so much Bush or Obama, but the people who put them in power and dictate their actions that are the threat then they will have a chance.
Further to this, America’s banks are well aware of the hatred that has been generated toward them, first by their own actions in creating the current economic disaster, and by our past and current President, who’s actions in taxing the population in order to bail them out of a supposed problem they created for themselves and us, can indicate nothing but complete and total complicity with them, at the expense of the American people. The banks are living in absolute terror of the American people at this point, as is the present administration, especially in view of the fact that the population is steadily and progressively arming themselves in order to defend their freedom should things go too far. At this point, it is still possible for we as a population to peacefully, and easily, resolve the problem, however if we don’t act now, we will not be given another chance to do so. The banks know full well that the majority of the American population has had enough, and is ready to start exploring solutions to the problems they have created for us. They know that if they do not succeed in removing any and all political freedom from our population along with any and all means which we may have to defend it, that it is we who will be removing them, and if it comes down to force of arms, manipulating our political process will no longer prevent that. If we as a population do not act now, they will, and then we will be required to fight and die as the single and last hope of preserving any of the things that could possibly make our lives a worthwhile thing. In such a case we will simply have to see who wins. A small action and a small risk today, will avoid any of us having to take a larger action and the ultimate risk at some point in the very near future. If you are prepared to die in defense of the United States of America, its Constitution, and the freedom it guarantees, this is a very good thing, and this makes you a very good person as well. It is an even better thing, and you are a much wiser person, if you act now, so that it doesn’t have to come to that.
We have allowed our body as a nation to become infested by parasites, and the parasites have grown to the point where they are consuming our sustenance faster than we can produce it. As they consume more and more, our bodies grow ever weaker and are capable of producing less and less so the end result has become inevitable. We now have the choice or either swallowing that tablespoon of kerosene in order to kill them and dislodge them from our system, or dying a long slow and agonizing death from starvation as we are no longer capable or producing enough to feed both them and ourselves at the same time. Now is the time to act, and if we don’t act now it will be too late.
THE SOLUTION:
I will propose a very simple solution to all of this, and it would be guaranteed to work, if everyone does their job in forwarding this, and if this can circulate through the majority of the American Population. Then if enough people have the courage and wisdom to act on this, in co-operation with each other for their own benefit, this can and will work, and in very short order as well. The solution is that we claim our own bailout, and we claim it here and now. If enough of the people in America will stop making their mortgage and credit payments all at once, and then be prepared to defend their homes if the banks attempt to foreclose (and they simply can’t foreclose on every home in America), then the entire banking system will collapse overnight and America will be free. This would force our Government into taking control of our monetary system, and producing currency and credit for the benefit of the people instead of as a means to power for the banks. If these same people were to then stop paying taxes, this would force our Government into a position of using the distribution of said currency and credit to fund their operations, or being forced to capitulate. We would then have the opportunity to elect representatives who would manage our currency and credit for the benefit of Americans, with that election being the first in the history of our great nation to be completely free of the influence of the banks, resulting in the prosperity i spoke of earlier and eliminating once and for all the threat to our Constitution and political freedoms as well. While we are sending our military to fight foreign enemies halfway around the world, the American people are making monthly payments to those who will truly destroy us. Making payments to a bank can be nothing less than an Act of Treason against the United States of America, as they are the true enemies of our freedom, our country and our Constitution, and what you are paying interest on is something they have stolen from you in the first place.
THE INSTRUCTIONS:
On January 1st. 2010, I propose that anyone in receipt of and in agreement with this proposal, cease making all of their mortgage and credit payments for a period of 2 months. In doing so you will sacrifice your credit rating, but then this the worst possible enemy that any person could have, and at this point very few of us have anything to lose. The banks cannot begin foreclosure on a mortgage until the payments are at least several months behind, so you will not be putting your home at risk. If enough people do this, the banking system will collapse and there is no possible way that Obama or anyone else would even dare propose another bailout as they know that people would simply kill them for doing so. If it does, then this will be the time to stop paying any and all federal taxes in order to either force the current government into compliance with our wishes or capitulate and allow us to elect another that will.
If not enough people participate in this in January in order to collapse the banking system. Then catch up on your two delinquent mortgage payments in March, while continuing to forward this email to anyone and everyone you can and asking them to do the same. The simple fact that some people have attempted this will generate massive turmoil and publicity, as with even with a small percentage of the population doing this, it will have hurt the bastards badly. This will encourage others to join the effort and do the same. You will also be free of any unsecured credit you may have, and can either catch up on this or simply screen your calls, or tell them “its never going to happen” when they call to try and collect. There is absolutely nothing they can do beyond this.
On April 1st. 2010, if the banking system still exists, then cease making all mortgage and credit payments again for a period of two months. If the banking system still exists at the end of these two months, then catch up on your payments and allow this message to get into the hands of more people, then do it again on July 1st., again on September1st., and again if necessary on December 1st., until the threat to our freedom and prosperity exists no more.
I think that it’s a pretty safe bet, that if even a few of us can get this started, it will grow exponentially and by the end of one year, Americas banking system will no longer exist.
If enough people get involved in this in order to collapse the banking system, then we will also have enough to gain control of our political process by ceasing to pay all taxes. Thus leaving whatever government that remains at the time no option but to begin putting currency and credit into circulation for the benefit of the population, and charging whatever interest they are going to charge in lieu of taxes. If not, then they will have to capitulate, and allow us to elect a government that will. Personally, I would like to see those in charge of the banking system and any and all politicians who have been complicit with them put on trial and executed for acts of treason against the United States of America. Of this they are truly guilty and this is what they deserve, but removing their power to commit further acts of treason, and outlawing any such further practices in the future will be sufficient for our purposes, at least for the time being.
I would also suggest that prior to doing this, those participating withdraw any deposits they have in any bank in cash. This will protect your interests when the banks collapse, and will only serve to hasten that collapse as well. FDIC may or may not be able to insure existing deposits at that point, but why take a chance and demanding the deposits in cash will only help bring about their demise even faster.
Most importantly, forward this email to everyone you possibly can, and beg and plead with them to do the same, forward it repeatedly to the same people as well. Email, especially forwards, gets caught in spam filters, and you need to send it many times to make sure it will get through to everyone. I normally don’t do forwards, but this is probably the most important thing that any of us will ever do, and could very well mean the difference between the destruction and survival of the single and only free country left in this world. Anyone who objects to receiving this is an enemy of America and part of the problem, so if they get pissed at you, so what ?. This will only work if we get a geometric progression going. If everyone receiving and in agreement with this, will forward it to as many people as they can immediately, each of whom can also forward it to as many more, then before the target date, the vast majority of the American population will have it, and will have a chance to act on it as well. Furthermore, there are still people in this world who are not on the internet, and don’t have access to email, as hard to imagine as that might be. If the bastards have left you enough money that you can buy some paper and printer ink, then print out hard copies of this proposal, leave them in as many places where people congregate as you can, so anyone can pick them up and read them, check and replace them if someone takes them home. They will certainly be the topic of some interesting conversation, will certainly motivate anyone reading them to think, and will only generate more interest and publicity in order to get this effort off the ground. Put copies in baggies with a stone and drive around some of the big new housing developments and throw them in people’s driveways, its pretty much guaranteed that anyone living in these places will be in the 80 % payment bracket. Do anything else you can think of as well, just get this out there any way you can.
THE CONSEQUENCES:
Each and every person in America, and even those who do not participate in this effort will end up owning their homes free and clear, regardless of any amounts still owing on them, as there will simply be no one left to demand the mortgage payments. If Obama tries to come up with some scheme where you would continue making your mortgage payments to him so that he could salvage the banks and put them back into power, just withhold them as you did from the banks. They can’t foreclose on the entire country at once, and if they try they will be fighting a war which they know they can’t win. For the state to issue loans and collect interest in lieu of taxes is a good thing, as they are the single and only ones who would have to put the money back into circulation to fund their operations, but for that to happen we will have to elect a government that has not been put in place by the banks. From a moral standpoint, anything you are owing to a bank is something that has been stolen from you and the American people to begin with. The credit you are paying on, is something that they created out of thin air and since no one earned that money you are under no moral obligation to pay them anything. There is absolutely no reason at all to feel bad about walking away from this with a good thing. You will use the money which is no longer going into interest, to buy more good things, this will benefit the people of this country in more ways than you can possibly imagine, so this is only a good thing for you, and for every one else as well. Alternately, if you continue making your payments, you will be guilty of contributing toward the destruction of the single and only good place that is left in this world. Because of you, all the good and just men and women who have given their lives in order to establish and defend it will have died for nothing. Your children and grandchildren will curse you for having done so, and you will have a chance to watch them kill themselves, as they will have absolutely no hope of accomplishing anything in their lives that could possibly make them a worthwhile thing. This will be the only good thing they can do for themselves, as at least once they are dead, they will be free of the miserable tyrants which you have allowed to come to power. You tell me which is right or wrong, and whatever you do, it is you and every generation to follow that will have to live with the consequences.
Even though this action will result in unprecedented turmoil. Our economy will have been restored, simply due to the fact that the population will be putting the money which they are no longer spending on their mortgage payments into circulation, and would be booming today were it not for the 60 – 80 % of most peoples incomes which is being siphoned off in the form of mortgage and credit interest now. An extra $ 50.00 a month would be enough to start bringing back the economy at this point, imagine what will happen when everyone has an extra $ 500.00, $ 1,000.00 or $ 2,500.00 available from what they are no longer paying to the bastards who have created this problem in the first place ?. This will have been done independently of the banks, which will no longer exist and the stock market as well, as the people themselves will finally have real money in their own hands in order to make this happen, and will be spending it on things which have to be produced. The source of any form of real and long term prosperity is money in the hands of the people to buy the things that they want and need. This will have been accomplished and what happens on Wall Street will be of little consequence from that point on.
The economy will be massively increased, and will grow exponentially in every year to come, with the single and only guarantee being, that things will simply continue to get better and better, instead of worse and worse, or somewhat better and then much worse, as it has always been throughout the course of human history. If the current government does not figure out that they can pay for their own operations simply by creating and distributing the currency. Provide all the essential services the population needs, and not only leave the population free from taxes, but be contributing to their prosperity through this process. Then we will very shortly have the opportunity to elect a government that will, as we will no longer have the banks to manipulate the election process in order to prevent this from happening.
For the first time in any of our lifetimes, we will have a Government “by the people, of the people and for the people”, and not “by the banks, of the banks and for the banks”, just as the fathers of this great nation intended it to be. This government will exist to serve the interests of the people and protect their freedoms as guaranteed by the United States Constitution, instead of trying to abrogate those freedoms, and suppress our prosperity and potential as a society, in order to make us more and more dependent on, and subservient to them and the banks who put them in power. Maybe we can even get to the point where we are electing farmers, builders, engineers and businessmen, who live and work in the real world, to manage our political and economic affairs, instead of lawyers, economists, and career politicians who never have done so and are only seeking power and control over those who feed them. If we could make political service like the military draft, where once chosen and nominated by the people a person had no choice but to serve for a specified period of time, we would have then made it extremely difficult for any person seeking any form of power to actually obtain it. The only people who can be trusted with any form of power are those who do not want it in the first place. This makes and awful lot of sense to me, and i hope it does to the rest of you as well. In the words George Washington, this nations first President, the thoughts of any President going to his inauguration should be “those of a culprit going to his execution”, and not thoughts of glee and anticipation over the power and control he or she will be able to inflict on the American people.
Within one year of this election, we as a population will begin to realize prosperity such as we have never dreamed possible, and this prosperity will grow exponentially and simply continue to increase as we as a population continue to create more and more if it for ourselves, as it will be we ourselves who will be creating the means to pay for this increase. Poverty will be non-existent, and each and every person in our society will have the opportunity to realize their greatest possible potential, according to the ability and effort they put into achieving this. Our children will bless us for the wonderful lives and future we have established for them and their own children, as opposed to cursing us for the hopelessness and misery that has been inflicted upon them through our inaction, as they have done in every other miserable country on this earth, and as they will do here if we don’t act now.
The only limitation on our prosperity as a society is what America can produce for that society’s benefit, and given the money to pay for it, America’s business and industry is capable of producing an abundance beyond our wildest imaginations.
FURTHER INFORMATION:
For those who wish to gain a better and more detailed understanding of economic alternatives beyond the simple basics which I’ve described here, it is certainly worth examining the philosophies of C. H. Douglas, as well as those of Stephen Zarlenga (look them up on the internet). These seem to be the two main pioneers of economic freedom that the world has had to this date. They certainly offer an abundance of solutions and proposals toward this end, which are well worth considering for anyone sharing the same interests. What you’ll also find interesting, is that any economic philosophy which is actually designed to benefit the people within that economy is also simple enough for most people to understand, and consequently simple enough to work as well. The difference is that they were not established by your run of the mill economists, who’s careers, and education involve complicating things beyond description, so that no one will understand what is actually happening or figure out what is being done to them in the process. Douglas used the term social credit, to describe his philosophies and I hate the name, as it creates confusion, and implies an association with socialism for those unfamiliar with the subject. In reality it is exactly the opposite, and is designed to promote the most truly free, and prosperous economy that anyone could possibly imagine, with limitless potential for prosperity for each person within that economy. I think Douglas philosophy may be more complicated than it needs to be, but Douglas was an engineer, and not a banker, politician or economist. He thought in practical terms, and if some variation of his economic system could be adopted and made to work, the result would be limitless prosperity for our entire population and the most productive, and truly free, enterprise system that we could possibly imagine. Zarlenga’s philosophies are somewhat similar with the same objectives, and I think easier to understand. His web site will certainly provide a wealth of information for anyone interested in establishing an economic system that would be of benefit to everyone in that economy, as opposed to raping it in the interests of greed and power. Certainly, these are not the only possible options which might accomplish the objective of an economy run for the benefit of its population, but they do offer a place to start and some ideas on which to expand. No doubt there are other philosophies and theories of economic freedom out there, and I’m sure those who look into the matter in detail will find a wealth of information on them, but you do have to look as each and every one of them has been suppressed by the banks, and are only available on the internet which is the single and only thing neither they, nor anyone else, has managed to gain control of. The one thing that they will all have in common though is that they do not involve the banks, as with them any form of long term freedom and prosperity can never exist. Success should be determined by useful effort and ability, and not by the control and power of banks and large corporations, once this has been established, then we will be able to call America’s economy “Free”. It is only by eliminating the power that it can become free as well.
Further to this, anyone that is reading and discussing this with anyone is going to run into some nitwit who believes the bullshit, which is being perpetuated by the current establishment. He or she will tell you that economic philosophies such as this cannot work because the currency will devalue through inflation if too much money is injected into the system. Its time to stop believing and simply start thinking and looking at what has been going on around you for the past decade or so. Prior to the current economic crisis, the banking system was injecting unprecedented amounts of credit into the system, in an attempt to secure whatever remained of peoples incomes in interest that they were not already getting in payments, and for many they got it all as well. The credit cost them nothing but they wanted you to work 3 1/2 weeks out of each month to pay them interest instead of two, and this is exactly what they accomplished. As long as this was the case, prices remained stable, as the massive injection of credit still came nowhere near what our actual production capacity would have been, and could have been many times that without bringing about inflation. Unless and until the supply of currency in the system exceeds our capacity to produce useful goods and services, inflation will not happen. If we ever actually get to the point where the supply of currency equals our actual capacity for production, everyone from the greatest to the least of us would have already gotten rich beyond their wildest dreams, and at this point there will be no need to inject more. Three years ago, when more and more people began finding that they were no longer able to pay, the banks began ceasing to issue new credit into the system, while still withdrawing the massive amounts of interest created by the credit they had previously issued, thereby progressively reducing and now eliminating any and all disposable currency within the system. Prices began to rise immediately, and have risen progressively ever since, in direct response to the increasing shortage of disposable currency in the hands of the population. The bottom line is that anyone in any kind of business has had to raise the prices they charge for the work they do for the simple reason that there is far less work coming in due to the shortage of currency for people to purchase it. It is costing them more to survive than it did before, because every other business, is having to do the same, so everyone is charging progressively more and making progressively less. The poor SOB working for those of us who have to raise the prices is still making the same and paying 3 times as much as he did before for the same things, and will be making nothing at all when the few people left who can still purchase the goods and services at the inflated prices can no longer do so. That time is very fast approaching now as well.
The idiot trying to tell you this, obviously hasn’t bought anything in the last 3 years, otherwise he would have found that a cart load of groceries that cost him $ 250, 3 years ago, is now costing him $ 500. The electric bill is now 3 times what it was 3 years ago for the same amount of power usage. Manufacturing and building materials have gone up 6-7 times what they were before, and have currently come down and stabilized at about 3 – 4 times their original prices, and were not even going to talk about gasoline. All of the foregoing is pretty much typical for everything else as well. In the interim, I think that most of our incomes have either remained the same, or more likely become a small fraction of what they were before so we all have been getting hit from both ends here. Again the single and only purpose of this is to bring down the American population and make them poor and dependent on those who would wish to establish power over us so that they can force us into giving up any and all remaining freedoms, and our means to defend them as well. This is what power does and what it accomplishes, and things can and will only get worse until we eliminate the power and restore freedom in its place. You know this, and I know this, and we’ve seen it happen right in front of our eyes, and it has happening to you and me and to everyone else as we speak. You will never convince someone who’s intent on believing the bullshit being perpetuated by the current system of this though. They have faith, and they only believe, and are unwilling to think, watch, question and learn. If true freedom and prosperity are to ever be established, and secured for our population, it will be because of us that do and in spite of them, and they will also be among those who benefit from our efforts, whether they are deserving of this or not.
What’s really funny about this, is that when we are successful, the former banks will be regretting not having allowed Ron Paul to win the last Presidential election by the landslide he would have gotten if they had not prevented this from happening. Although he is a good man and has come out on the right side of freedom on every issue, he was advocating a return to a gold based currency as a partial solution, in order to eliminate at least some of the power of the banks to manipulate our currency and economy for their own interests. This would have at least left them something with which they could try again, but as things will be now they will have nothing left at all, and we will finish them for good. Since every other country in the world is entirely dependent on the American economy, as it is the only one who’s population has actually had the ability to purchase anything until recently, and all other business in the world exists for the purpose of exporting to America. The rest of the world will have to follow suit or be left behind, and this will truly be an end on a global scale, to the few people and families who have been responsible for the vast majority of human suffering and misery that has taken place over the course of he past 1,000 years or so. The entire world will then be a part of the new ten thousand year empire of peace, freedom and prosperity which America has established, which, barring anyone being foolish enough to believe the lies perpetrated by the former empire, will endure for all time to come.
Money is not real, and like a child’s toy, it can be created and managed in any manner that will best serve our interests. As such, it should be the least of our worries, and it is only its control and manipulation by private interests for the sake of establishing power for themselves that makes it the greatest. This is the single and only thing that has deprived the world’s population of the enjoyment and accomplishment they could have had in their lives throughout the course of human history. Once they are gone, money will be the least of our worries, and then we will have the freedom to put all of our efforts into accomplishing useful and productive things, which will be of benefit to our country and our fellow man, instead of having our efforts wasted and our lives destroyed because of it. This is as and how it should be, and the only way it can be, once this is accomplished. It takes many years of education in order to teach someone how to complicate this simple thing to the extent where they can make this simple thing appear impossible, and this represents the greatest lie ever perpetrated on humanity. This is the simple and obvious truth, and even the simplest among us, who will think and question, instead of trust and believe, can figure this out for themselves.
With best regards and best wishes to all, in the hope and prayer that America and its freedom and prosperity may yet survive, and if you act, it will, so its all up to you.
From a Fellow American who loves his country
David, extremely well written. I only had time to read a portion will read the whole thing later. Honestly I don’t know if this info would reach enough people. We need a political movement like “healt care reform” we need “monetary reform” as movement. We also need a new political party, perhaps it is time to revive THE GREENBACK PARTY. Hope to post again soon!
JuggerGrimrod
Bring back the Greenback Party.
But their government issued paper is not to be granted special privilege or authority (through legal tender laws or something similar) and market based monies (like gold and silver or whatever the market produces) must be allowed to compete freely. Let’s let (economic) liberty reign and see what the people choose to use as money. I’d place my bets on honesty and integrity. That is, I’d place my bets on commodity monies like gold and silver.
Thanks Jugger;
Actually i don’t know how much chance this has either, but it is something which individual people can do themselves to promote and make happen which the powers that be could not control once it gets into circulation. If it can generate enough interest and a mass forwarding campaign so it gets into the hands of enough people, and they act on it, then it will work.
In regards to political movements, those are great as well, and if an actual solution could be incorporated in some of those then it would be even better. The only problem is that so far the banks have had such an ironclad hold and influence on anything that happens through our political process that they have managed to quash it before it can produce results.
I think we need something that every pissed off person in the country can do themselves as individuals to make this happen, and that includes most of them, and this is something they could do, and something no one could control, as if successful this takes it completely out of anyone’s hands and puts the control into the hands of those participating.
Re: the article, explanations, proposed solutions, i’ve tried to explain the problem, and propose a solution and “suggested” alternatives (which are not written in stone), in terms that can make sense to someone who has no clue or knowledge about any of this and is finding out about it for the first time, which is the vast majority. hopefully it will have some effect, and if everyone here who finds and agrees with it starts forwarding it into circulation it might have a chance
Well written again. I agree with most of what you say. Zarlenga’s book was quite an “eye opener” for me. It should be translated into very language and read by everyone on the planet. Quite frankly i am not sure what WILL work here. I myself and my wife ourselves are constantly scrambling to just make it through they day like 90% of Americans. What the banks have done is simply just sick. Ron Paul and Kucinich have been the only two pols in recent times to challenge the power of the banksters. Kudos to both of them. I would like either of them be President although I lean more to Kucinich. If either one of them became pres, they would be taken out by the banks, I am suprised they haven’t already been. Hope to post again soon.
Cheers
JuggerGrimrod
Yeah, i’m definitely with you on Ron Paul. I think our views differ somewhat his on the economic solution, just as they do with Nate, who shares his philosophy, but the simple fact of the matter is that he is a good man, and has come out on the right side of freedom on every issue, and i absolutely love him for that, and what he is proposing economically, is a step toward our common objectives too. If the power of the banks to control a hard currency or paper and credit system can simply be eliminated, then either one would have a chance to get established and could be made to work.
The problem is that if Paul or Kuchinich ever manage to circumvent the banks party manipulation and media control of the election process, they would be assassinated in their first week in office. It all comes down to the people themselves acting both individually and collectively, and eliminating the banks so that they will no longer be there to interfere in the process, so that people like them will have a chance to accomplish the good which is their intent. If some way, somehow, and by some miracle we could be successful in motivating them to do this, that chance would be established, and we do have to try. The alternative is something none of us want to see.
Whew! I admit I just skimmed it but that was still quite a chore. I thought I was winning you over with the “hard money is freedom” argument. I guess not. While your post contains much passion, it is also flooded with nonsense. We’ve already had some exchanges and I won’t bother to rehash them. But answer me one question, how are the people supposed to be free when the government is in charge of the money?
This is just another version of the “we need the right philosopher kings in positions of power” and everything will be okay argument. It can work for a little while under leaders as virtuous as Ben Franklin. But in the long run it’s a disaster.
Seriously, go to mises.org and learn the virtues of sound money. That is, the commodity or commodities selected by the people through their free exchanges to be money.
Here I’m happy to help…
The Social Imperative of Sound Money
http://mises.org/story/3108
Sound Money and the Business Cycle
http://mises.org/story/1186
The Principle of Sound Money
http://blog.mises.org/archives/006828.asp
Freedom and Sound Money
http://mises.org/story/1914
Hi Nate;
Well what i would suggest is that you write your own proposal, incorporating your own ideas and philosophies, and simply maintaining the proposed course of action for eliminating the power that is preventing either your or my ideas from ever being made to happen, and begin trying to get it into circulation as i am here.
Once the power is eliminated then everyone can actually begin working on coming up with a viable and workable alternative to the status quo. Until that is done, arguing about what that alternative should be is pointless, as it just isn’t going to happen.
Whatever we agree or disagree on at this point as to what a good solution would be. (I think both Mises and Zarlenga are proposing things that can be made to work and your obviously leaning toward mises and me toward zarlenga, douglas, etc. and its obvious that any solution will take much long and careful thought so that it can actually be secured to work in the interests of the people and the country.) Nothing is going to happen until the people themselves eliminate the power that will prevent it. I think we can all agree on that and have this objective in common.
Post your own proposal opposite mine while maintaining a common course of action that everyone can co-operate on and lets let anyone reading them start forwarding the one they choose. Good will be accomplished either way.
Well this is another point where we part company. I do not think such email campaigns are effective. Perhaps it is just my laissez-faire attitude but I’m content to let people make their own inquiries and discover the truth on their own.
Also, debating the alternative is not trivial. I’ll leave aside all the economic misunderstandings in your proposal and simply reask my question (which you chose not to answer). How are the people to be free when the government controls the money?
We agree that freedom and liberty are the ends. I simply recognize that they are also the means.
Yes we part company on many things. Firstly the majority of the population needs to be motivated to think, as no one can dispute that a great many are not in the habit of doing so, and then motivated to act based on what they think. Right now its the banks telling them how to act while trying to keep them from thinking, and its working.
In regards of government control of the money, well if control of the government can be re-established by the people, then that control would be of and by the people as well, and the freedom would be as free as it could be made to be, while still accommodating the few (and these are very few, a standard currency that everyone needs to trade with being one) collective needs that the people have. Someone is going to control the government, and someone is going to control whatever means if exchange is used, and it will either be the people or the banks and/or other corporate interests. The only alternative to this would be to completely eliminate all government and lapse into a state of complete and total anarchy, and lets face it, even that would be preferable to what their trying to do to us now, so all would be an improvement over the end result of things if nothing is done at this point.
At least i’m proposing something that someone can do in order to try start things moving in the right direction, and whether or not it is successful at least those acting on it will have tried.
Nate, here is the problem. We need to eliminate the banks, utterly destroy them, for as long as they are allowed to exist they will establish power. Whether there is a standard currency or not, they will manage to gain control of some of it, and start loaning it out and charging interest and eventually they will have it all again, no matter what the currency is. They will do this just as well independently of government as they will in partnership with them. As long as the practice of private banking is permitted things must revert back to where they are now over the long term for the simple reason that whatever they get they will hoard in order to establish more power instead of putting it back into the system where it belongs.
You simply can’t acknowledge that it would be possible to have a government acting for the benefit of the people if we could eliminate the private control working against that interest. But if we eliminate all government, along with any and all ability for the population to act collectively in their own interests, then there is also absolutely nothing standing in the way of these same private interests gaining complete and absolute control of whatever forms of currency we are using, however many there might be, and consequently absolute power and control over the population as well.
It’s a catch 22 situation, and the only solution i can see is to try and put control of government back in the hands of the people so that they will have the ability to collectively eliminate the power of the private interests who would work toward eliminating their freedom and prosperity. This has been done before and it can be done again whether your willing to acknowledge the possibility or not, and as per the discussion between Jugger and myself, government and our 3 body system is the single and only reason why the banks and corporate interests have not established absolute power and had us living under the feudal system they dream of a long time ago. It has taken them this long to gain the control they needed of the governing process to start bringing that about. The only thing in this world that needs to be controlled is power, the power to control the power must be place in the hands of the collective population so that no single individual or organization will have it. The only way this can be done is in the form of government, and by regulating the actions of that government in the form of a constitution. It is only this which has prevented the complete and total loss of our freedom until now, and only an effort to further regulate the power of both governments and private interests, learning from what has happened in the past, that can preserve our freedom and prosperity for the future. Case in point, the American revolution, the people took up arms and collectively established the power, “government, armies, militias”, to destroy the power of the British King, and in the process of using their collective power to eliminate his individual power established freedom for themselves. Had this collective power, collective government not been established, it would not have come about. What about this can you not understand ?
I’m proposing exactly what you are, taking the money power and putting it into the hands of the people, but we also have to eliminate the threat that would take it out of their hands once again, and if we don’t, nothing will have been accomplished. We can only do that collectively through government, as no single individual has the means to accomplish this on his or her own. If your proposing a system of complete and total anarchy, then come out and say so, i could respect that, and if this is the only alternative to what is being planned for us today, then id support you in this as well. I do think we need to at least try and establish something better if we can, as working together as a society for the few things that can be made to benefit us collectively, we can certainly accomplish much more for each persons individual benefit than anyone could on his own. A free, standard, and consistent supply of currency is one of the few things which will accomplish this in a sensible and workable fashion, along with constitutional guarantees further securing our freedoms and hopefully establishing even more of them by further eliminating the possibility of power existing in the hands of anyone but the people themselves.
Actually, id like to extend the same invitation to everyone that i just did to Nate here. I think we can all agree that eliminating the power to prevent anything from happening, and establishing the freedom to make something happen is the first step toward accomplishing anything at all. Anyone reading my proposal who agrees with the first objective but has different ideas on accomplishing the second, post your own proposal here, while maintaining a common course of action to eliminate the power, and lets see if we can make this happen. The more proposals that get out there, the more ideas the population will have to consider, and as long as they can be motivated to act collectively and in unison to eliminate the power that will prevent any of them from happening to begin with, then the people themselves can decide, from a better informed position, what alternative they would like to see established in the end.
Thanks
Also, anyone doing this, please feel free to copy anything from my proposal that would be applicable to your own as well. I claim no copyright on this and am promoting it anonymously as well, simply for the purpose of accomplishing some good for the American people. I think the introduction does provide a good description of the current situation that will get most peoples attention and start them thinking, and the solution should be common to making anything anyone proposes possible, so please, feel free to use what you can.
I will try to come up with something. But most of my thinking would be closely along the lines of Zarlenga. Defintely agree with you that the banks and also associated corporate interests, for-profit health insurance, big oil and gas, other financial interests, etc, etc have virtually taken over the US. However I don’t think is an indictment of government. Government is all we have to prevent a total take over of corporate interests or descending into anarchy. The Repugs and Demo-crats are almost completely sold out and useless. What would prevent another political party from becoming totally corrupted, I am not sure.
-Cheers
JuggerGrimrod
Yeah, you and i are definitely in agreement on the basics of things, and my thinking is very much along the lines of Zarlenga’s as well with only a few minor differences, which are of no great consequence.
The single and only thing i can think of which would prevent another political party from being corrupted would be mass action by the population to solve the problem themselves, as i have proposed. If such action can be organized, once their will to act both independently and collectively toward their mutual benefit has been established, this would go a long way toward instilling the fear needed in those who would seek to act against their benefit, and establish power in any subsequent parties, in order to prevent them from trying.
We just need to motivate enough of them to do the same thing at the same time toward accomplishing this, and a mass mortgage and tax revolt is the only peaceful means that i can think of through which this could be accomplished before its too late.
This is astounding. You recognize the corporatist/fascist system at play. You clearly see the corruption. Yet, you do not indict the main partner. Do you seriously not recognize that the banks and the other corporate interests would not hold such power and sway if not partnered with government?
How to prevent the government from corruption? Take the money power away from the government and give it back to the people. Where it properly belongs.
Actually further to this, and re: the Indictment of Government, you are absolutely correct. In this, one of the few countries in the world where the power is shared by the three governing bodies, the banks and other interests have not yet been able to establish full and absolute control, as in order to do so, they would have to control the president as well as the voting majority of the senate and congress at the same time. This is what has saved us from things much worse so far, and is all that has prevented a compete and total takeover until now.
Their control has been ever increasing instead of decreasing though, and the simple fact both major parties agreeing to taxing the people in order to bail out the banks, and then not forcing them to reintroduce the needed credit to get the economy moving again under the present system, nor introducing free currency independently of them to make that happen, could be no clearer evidence that that control is approaching the point of being absolute at an alarming pace.
” if control of the government can be re-established by the people, then that control would be of and by the people as well”
I assume one of the “by”s is supposed to be a “for”. Anyway, we already have government by the people (the people vote their reps into office), of the people (the reps are citizens). So why is it that we do not have government FOR the people as a result? It is because we have a monetary system in the hands of government. And it is sad to see the “greenback solution” crowd wants to keep it this way.
Nate, scroll up for my response to this and your previous in response to jugger, there was no reply option on your last post and i got it up a little higher than it should have been.
Ignorance Is Bliss
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php
The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
If saving is part of the answer, “save what?” you may ask after looking at the household budgets when necessities are inflexible, increasing in cost. So what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Does the government/FED/Corps need to do something first, so Americans CAN actually save money again?
Its sad how the republicans are arguing for easy credit and more inflation and the democrats are arguing for less credit and less inflation.
Today I’ve heard about 30 republicans suggest that all of our economies progress over the years has come from inflation.
and we wonder why its so hard to get sound money. We blame obama when it is the republican’s who hold us back. WHy don’t we all write our republican congressmen and tell them how harmful easy credit and inflation is to an economy.
What Obama Isn’t Telling American Workers
http://www.counterpunch.org/cooke10132009.html
The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
Amazing the difference in household budgets, not the flexibility there use to be in life’s necessities. Has us living on the edge.
David Icke “What is Money?” from Radical Truth Knowledge and Revolution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peiTfY7Bx4c
Here is enough math hopefully for you. I haven’t gone through in all its detail but it sounds like this guy is a physicist.
check it out
http://econpapers.repec.org/paper/wpawuwpma/0203005.htm
Cheers!
Dear Nate Y, I really think that I can precisely quantify greater production and unsold product. M is dependent variable from Q and V.
Q and V are independent variable. P = price level = constant.
Inflation is zero. If inflation is greater than zero, money must be retreated from circulation. Very simply.
Alright then. If you feel you can do it, have at it. Let us know what the proper amount of money should be right now.
Maybe the so-called “greeback solution” would work best. Although I doubt it for the reasons I’ve given and others. But let’s have the people (market) decide. The government can issue it’s unbacked paper and have it compete freely against market monies. The government “gift” money enjoys no privledged status. Let there be no legal tender laws. No force or fraud involved and we’ll see what money best serves the people.
Well i both agree and disagree with both of you here, there can be no exact formula to inject the proper amount of capital in with a public currency and credit system, because we can’t know what the exact need is going to be. We could come close though and make a reasonable guess, and just let the value fluctuate back and forth by 5 or 10 %, which would bring little harm to anyone. This would certainly be better than the massive inflation we’ve had in the past few years due to the shortage, not surplus, of currency in the system.
Re: the hard currency or peoples choice of currency, we need some standard means of exchange established on a national level that everyone will accept, things simply can’t work otherwise. I’d love to see competing currencies being used as alternatives to whatever was established, but we do need a standard.
All of this is redundant at this time though, as the current objective has to be to get rid of the banks before they manage to destroy every single freedom that exists in this country, and this has to happen soon, hence the proposal i posted here. The people will have to do it themselves, and still could. We can worry about what sort of currency we’ll use later, once their power is eliminated i expect that any system that is established will work, as it will be managed for the benefit of the people. Then will be the time to discuss how we want to do this using the ideas which are being shared here now.
Dear Nate Y, SUPPLY = PQ, DEMAND = MV. dM = NON-CREDIT MONEY AS GIFT. dM = (PdQ – MdV)/(V + dV) .
PdQ = new greater production ;
MdV = unsold products ;
dV = retarding velocity of money circulation ;
V + dV = new retarded velocity of money circulation ;
dV is minus. P as level of price is constant.
Again, you really think you can precisely quantify “new greater production”, “unsold products”, etc? I know you represented them mathmatically but that doesn’t prove anything. All the variables are constantly changing. The variables of your formula are derived from other variables which are derived from other variables, etc. You really don’t see how easily corrupted such a formula could/would be by those entrusted to protect it?
Also, are you arguing that the price level would stay constant? If so, that is yet another impossibility.
Dear Nate Y, formula is exact. If people were not all angels and saints formula shows minus. Money must retrait from circulation. Non-credit money exists only if formula shows plus. People were good. People augment economic rationality. New money must be emit as gift for people.
The problem is that supply and demand are never exact. They are in constant flux. You want to be able to quantify total supply and total demand? You may as well attempt to pick up the Earth or tear down the sky. Again, why not let the people have the liberty to choose (through their free actions/exchanges) what they want to use as money?
Ladies and Gentlemen, first of all, I read, consider and value each of your comments. Our Country is in Serious Trouble, caused by some radically minded left-wing loons who have been elected, and appointmented to various positions in our Government. The topic of this posting is SOUND MONEY, and you will find the following most interesting, as it relates to SOUND MONEY:
Congress’ Secret Plan to Pass Obamacare – CONFIRMED
SOURCE: http://blog.heritage.org/2009/10/07/congress%e2%80%99-secret-plan-to-pass-obamacare-confirmed/
(PLEASE SEND THIS ARTICLE AND THE WEB LINK TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW, POST IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET, BEFORE THEY TURN THAT OFF…….)
Leaders in the House and Senate have a plan to pass President Barack Obama’s sweeping health care plan by Thanksgiving without any significant participation by the American public. CNS News has confirmed the details in our September 22nd titled “Passing a Shell of A Bill: Congress’ Secret Plan to Ram Through Health Care Reform.” Nicholas Ballasy reports “a senior aide to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) told CNSNews.com that it is ‘likely’ that Reid will use H.R. 1586—a bill passed by the House in March to impose a 90-percent tax on bonuses paid to employees of certain bailed-out financial institutions—as a ‘shell’ for enacting the final version of the Senate’s health care bill, which Reid is responsible for crafting.”
This story confirms the four part scenario that would railroad the bill through the Senate using a very unusual closed door procedure to craft the bill with no input from the American people.
The four stage plan to pass Obamacare has been publicly confirmed and is ready to be implemented. The following is a comprehensive update:
Step One: “The Senate Finance Committee will finish work on the marking up of Senator Max Baucus’ (D-MT) conceptual framework for legislation by this Friday.” Progress on this had been stalled and the bill was not passed by the end of last week. Foxnews.com is reporting that the Congressional Budget Office score of the bill will be released later today and a high score may further stall progress on the Committee’s Vapor Bill. Senate Finance Committee’s progress on passing something out of committee – INCOMPLETE.
Step Two: Next, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will take the final product of the Senate Finance Committee and merge it with the product of the Senate Health, Education, Labor & Pensions (HELP) Committee. CNSnews.com has confirmed that “the actual final text of the legislation will be determined by Reid himself, who will consolidate the legislation approved by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee and the still-unapproved legislation from the Senate Finance Committee. Reid will be able to draft and insert textual language that was not expressly approved by either committee.” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will write the final version of Obamacare to be considered in the Senate with no input from the American people. This is an extremely complex procedure that will not be done in public, or in the form of a hearing, or a public conference committee, and only Senator Harry Reid, some other Senators chosen by Reid and Obama Administration officials will be allowed to read the bill before the Senate debate starts. Merger of the bills – IN PROGRESS.
Step Three: Senator Reid will then move to proceed to H.R. 1586, a bill to impose a tax on bonuses received by certain TARP recipients. A senior aid to Senate Majority Leader Ried has confirmed that he will move to proceed to Senate Calendar Number 36, H.R. 1586, or another House passed tax measure, so the Senate can avoid the Constitutional mandate that tax bills originate in the House. Proceed to tax shell of a bill – CONFIRMED.
Step Four: This scenario would most likely be implemented after the Massachusetts state legislature gives Governor Deval Patrick the power to appoint a new Senator and that Senator is seated by the Senate. The Senate swore in new Massachusetts Senator Paul Kirk on September 25th. Change Law of Massachusetts to allow for interim Senator – COMPLETE.
The final step in this plan is for the House to take up Obama care, without amending the legislation, and then sending that bill directly to the President for his signature. Matt Cover at CNSnews.com reports “House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) won’t rule out having the House vote on the Senate health-care bill without making any changes in it, which would allow the bill to go directly to President Barack Obama without having to pass through a House-Senate conference committee and another round of votes in the House and Senate–and a longer period of public scrutiny of what the text of the proposed law actually says.” This scenario is in the process of being implemented and, if successful, it will result in Obamacare being on the President’s desk in time for Thansgiving with minimal participation of the American public.
The San Francisco Examiner published an editorial today that exposed the fact that the American people can’t see the bill. “When then-Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama promised not to sign major legislation until it had been posted on the Internet for public reading at least five days, trusting voters took him at his word. Now they know better. Not only is the actual language of what is likely to become the main legislative vehicle for Obama’s signature health care reform not available on the Internet, it hasn’t been given to members of the key Senate committees or the Congressional Budget Office.” The procedure being used, in addition to the exclusion of the American people from the process, should be of grave concern to all who want to participate in democracy and have a say in Congress’ health care reforms that will touch 1/6th of the American economy.
MY COMMENTS: 1/6th of the American Economy? WOW!! It is time to IMPEACH these law-breakers posing as lawmakers, in the interests of Our Well Being, and True National Security(yours and mine). Did you see the part about “in addition to the exclusion of the American people from the process, should be of grave concern to all who want to participate in democracy and have a say in Congress’ health care reforms”?
These people need to be held to account. You and I, the tax-payer will end up with the bill(costs), and shall suffer the consequences of this Absurd Legislation, for which no completly written bill exists in either the House or the Senate, by their own admissions. Yet “they” want to appease BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, and ram this CRAP down our throats.
We are in trouble Ladies and Gentlemen, May GOD Have Mercy, and Bless America!!
I hate to ruin your orgy david, but there are slim to none chances that the government will step up to get rid the shadow banking system. It’s one year from the crisis and we are still securitizing debt. Even if we get rid of the fed, I doubt the government will take action against a free market operation. They are having hard enough times trying to pass regulations, and trust me our congress knows exactly whats going on. Congress promotes the shadow banking system, because so does a majority of investors inside and outside of our country.. We’re in so much debt we just can’t switch to a gold standard, we could let other currencies compete with each other but thats not going to rid us of the banking elite. Its only going to give the elite the chance to confiscate all of our gold and be in total control over every citizen. Those who have no gold will have no money.
You can borrow money from those who own gold, but that money will still be debt, and will still require interest.
The only way to have sound money is to have interest-free money. As long as banks charge interest, they will always end up with all of the money. Even if its made from gold or silver. it’s mathematically inevitable… The only way to have sound money is if banks were non-profit organizations.
Watch these Sean………
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Economic+Hit+man&search_type=
economic hitman 13 videos
*
How To Destabalize Countries Legally .Economic Hitman Part 1 (8:06)
*
How To Destabalize Countries Legally .Economic Hitman Part 2 (9:58)
*
How To Destabalize Countries Legally .Economic Hitman Part 3 (9:59)
Playlist play all 13 videos djiq31
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
John Perkins started and stopped writing Confessions of an Economic Hit Man four times over 20 years. He says he was threatened and bribed in an effort to …
fessions of an Economic Hit Man, by John Perkins–the shocking …
In the bestselling book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, John Perkins tells his own shocking real-life story about his life as an economic hit man.
http://www.economichitman.com/
i’m watching.. i know about most of this stuff. i’ve tried explaining it on here.
hehehe Sean……I”m glad you do know about it but I don’t think you understand our protest against the NWO ….we in this blog and everyone I talk with care..we do not want to continue with this government taking our Freedoms away…
Anyway…..I wish you would also read this ladies bio ..she is one who has really walked amongst the “government” deceivers and socialized with the most wealthy and rich in this world.
You find out what she has learned. How it changed her life
http://www.dunwalke.com/
My hope is that “Dillon, Read & the Aristocracy of Stock Profits” will help you to see the game sufficiently to recognize the dividing line between two visions. One centralizes power and knowledge in a manner that tears down communities and infrastructure as it dominates wealth and shrinks freedom. The other diversifies power and knowledge to create new wealth through rebuilding infrastructure and communities and nourishing our natural resources in a way that reaffirms our ancient and deepest dream of freedom.
Yes, there is a better way and, yes, we can create it.
i thought you were talking about the bilderberg group. I know what the government is doing against our freedoms. I drove across the country to protest at the republican national convention. I’m not on this site to promote anything that the government does.. It’s no conspiracy theory, thats all i’m trying to say.
I’m a strong humanitarian and I don’t believe a country can have civil liberties while they are in war. It is all destroyed.
So this is the reason I don’t get so all patriotic about the military and wars. If the government can get you feeling all fuzzy about being patriotic, then you go along with the destruction they do to other people’s on the planet, who like us, are just trying to live a decent life.
When they go in and distruput daily life, film propeganda to feed us via the controlled media… they have taken our minds..and not only that…our hearts towards other human beings. AND those in the military are being used for reasons other than what they are told.
The NWO folks want to control everyone, everything and the world. They’ve got the God complex. The odd thing about control is that the more you try to control, the less you control. We only need to be aware of when they are trying to control and call it what it really is… a lie.
I don’t think there is a small group of people who control everything, but i think the top 1% of our country does, but the sad thing is… they are doing it with the american peoples consensus. We encourage globalization with our free trade policies and our “peace wars.” It’s all a completely two sided view, most people except this as the norm.
I don’t believe in a world government because i think there are too many hard headed leaders out there. Nobody would accept that… The world will unite and it will be a new world order, but will the mass majority care?… nope. They will encourage it.
You come to such broad conclusions and attempt to speak so broadly for everyone. Just ain’t the case. The few are the elite 1% at the top.
ya right chirstine. you think there is a small group of people trying to kill us all.
1% is three million people, and no i don’t think they are out to put us in harms way. That is a difference of opinion.
Sean, i don’t know what your replying to on this, but you are absolutely correct in everything you say here. Congress will never get rid of the banking system and with a gold based currency, the banks would simply have it all even faster than they do under the current system, as they would not be able to put in credit to replace what they were taking out in interest, as i posted earlier in a response to Nate.
If the problem is going to be solved it will have to be the people that solve it themselves, as per the proposal i posted here. If enough of them simply stop paying at this point, we will end up collapsing both the banking system and the political system that support them. Once that is done we can work on establishing something that will work for our benefit. If this doesn’t work, i hope that everyone has been accumulating a good stock of arms and ammunition, as that will be our only alternative after that, and it will be expensive with no guaranteed of who will win.
http://www.monetary.org
Money is money. Credit is a promise to repay at a later date. Money is not credit. We are all using credit currently through fractional reserve banking at the Fed. Confusing Money and Credit makes bankers rich. Money is not Credit.
The American Monetary Institute’s plan seems pretty sensible. More than any other plan that I have read about.
First, incorporate the Federal Reserve System into the U.S. Treasury where all new money is created by government as money, not interest-bearing debt, and spent into circulation to promote the general welfare; monitored to be neither inflationary nor deflationary.
Second, halt the banks privilege to create money by ending the fractional reserve system in a gentle and elegant way. All the past monetized private credit is converted into U.S. government money. Banks then act as intermediaries accepting savings deposits and loaning them out to borrowers; what people think they do now.
Third, spend new money into circulation on infrastructure, including education and healthcare needed for a growing society, starting with the $1.6 trillion that the American Society of Civil Engineers estimate is needed for infrastructure repair; creating good jobs across our nation, re-invigorating local economies and re-funding government at all levels.
Cheers!
Dear Nate Y, sound money is real money. Real money is non-credit money. Non-credit money is not credit as debt. Non-credit money is the gift. Formula controls non-credit money. Formula is exact. More exact than gold and silver. Without inflation and deflation. Very simply.
Yeah dude we’ve been over this before. Your formula would work just fine if people were all angels and saints. Unfortunately, this is not the case and the formula could easily (and would quickly) be corrupted by the people entrusted to honor it. Also, sound money advocates do not necessarily demand that gold/silver be used as money. The the people should be free to use whatever they want to use and the money of choice. Let’s see what freedom brings us.
Well, this is taking an interesting turn here, especially in the last couple of days. I’m seeing many irrefutable arguments in support of freedom and prosperity, and many arguments in favor of that which is currently inhibiting this being refuted as well.
This blog needs to be made public and people motivated to read follow and contribute to it. I’d like to suggest, that for a start, each and every one of us would forward the url, to everyone on our email lists, ask them to read the postings, form their own opinions, and forward it to everyone on theirs and ask them to do the same. It would be a start at any rate, and if we could turn this into a geometric progression, it could actually become a source of accomplishing the needed objectives.
Lol my ex wife, who oddly enough is also my best friend, has a massive email list, so i’m getting her to forward this for me too, she will accomplish much more than i could ever hope to on my own
Who is paying the nitwit Sean to post here incessantly?
The Bilderberg
Hehehehehe, i’m rolling on the floor and laughing my ass off, this is absolutely priceless, and one word says so much as well LOL.
Sean, is a college student who is ingrained in the system and wants to be a politician…..don’t let him try to nullify your opinion…..
read the rest of this article under Health issue….
but I thought it was kind of along the same line of sound money…
..HOW can Counterfeit Money be made Sound?
China just bought the Hummer factory from GM, in Detroit today…$150 million, I thought GM was owned by Obama now, so what is he doing selling our jobs overseas???????
I’ll bet our Governor Granholm really loves that transaction.! Our state should have gotten the money not the Federal Government.!
WE have 15.6% unemployment now..and that is just those who are on record…..most likely 25% ….
Well Obama won the international Nobel Peace Prize today too to the tune of $1.2 million…..nice perk Pres. for mentioning the words peace twice in your speeches……
There sure isn’t peace in this country amongst your own people….its anything but……I guess you’ll have more money to buy more stock now in BioTech, who are making the flu vaccines…..
Presidents get into office don’t they to get rich? To network with the wealthy and to flick us peasants off like you do a berger…..our Hope in you is just about GONE….
How does an American react then to this Counterfeit Epidemic?
Do we refuse their Counterfeit Flu Vaccine?
Do we refuse to pay $25 for their mandated Counterfeit Flu Vaccine, with their Counterfeit Money?
Do we allow them to put us under Marital Law, with Unconstitutionally, trained none citizens of the USA?
The Counterfeit Age of the USA 2000-2012/this one is for you Sean!
I don’t believe in government ran health care..
and I also don’t believe in crazy conspiracy theories. Call me optimistic if you will.
President Obama donated that 1.2 million dollars to charity. That is pretty peaceful.
When did he do that Sean? Today?
To what charity? His Youth Army? For Uniforms?
Like they have in China , Russia and North Korea ???????????
I swear to God Sean you are the son of some Illuminati!
I think he gave it to Acorn
Sean: I heard that same report. I also witnessed him saying that maybe he really didn’t deserve the award. I give Obama props on this one for sure!
Obama isn’t asking you to believe in the Public Option……he’s asking for your money…and in case you aren’t old enough to work yet..or to have had a job….since your in college I know….but once you start getting a paycheck. Whether you believe in gov.HC or not you will pay 8% of your wages into Medicare a government program.
And, you will be paying another 39% of your wages to the IRS USA TREASURY DEPT., to your leaders pockets, AND another 7%/MI of your wages to your State.
And $2 a gallon in taxes for gasoline…..And 10% tithe, of your wage to the church pastor of your choice….
.And 12% Fed/State taxes of your total phone/tv/internet bill…..
And over 20% interest on your credit card bills….and 6-15% interest on a car you might want to buy…..
So, what do you have left Sean? Where will your sound money be for you?
These facts are not a conspiracy , they are truth…..
All a conspiracy tries to do is to find out what group or pushing the tax attract on the people of this country……
To find out who they are, and why and what they believe in and how it differs from us….
Truth is the only thing, I am obligated ,to believe in ,so as to avoid betrayal of my soul..
Whatever a man thinketh so is He…….
Even lawyers have difficulty finding out a motive.
The lawyers in Washington love to hide their motives and their agenda and they are walking conspiracies as far as I see……..
Now there are ways to eliminate some of those taxes, walk don’t drive, don’t go to a church and support a pastor, don’t borrow money to go to school, live in a tent rather than rent or own, learn what herbs and flowers and trees you could eat for your bodies health, instead of buying food at the grocery store…..get off all junk foods, no more McDonalds……Don’t have a phone, (cell or land.)..get a megaphone that can be heard across down for your conversations…
Burn wood for heat….because we now have to pay 5 times the cost of any forms of heat we use ….that is the Green way , now we are saving the planet but not the people in it…..they want everyone to believe the planet is getting warmer but the Sun has cooled down now for 2 years and its getting colder……so they want more money now for all of the oil fields and natural gas sources and oil refiners have been shut down..so now we are more dependent on foreign oil
Buy one pair of shoes a year , one tie, one suit, a pack of underwear, soap and then wash them out in the closest river and bathe in the lake…
good luck……..
Janice, i really do admire your thinking and your very realistic perception and insight into the way things are and what they might become.
Actually as an immigrant to this country, i’m one of the few people on here who has actually seen the end result of what the collusion between our banks and corrupt politicians will be if they accomplish their objectives, and can confirm all of your predictions and much more. The end result of this is the complete and total loss of any and all political freedoms and the establishment of a police state, where the single and only purpose of each individual is to serve that state. I’ve seen income taxes of $ 0.75 on the dollar, with 2/3 of the remaining 25 % being consumed by other accumulated taxes on the things people buy. I’ve seen a once free and prosperous population, reduced over the course of 30 years into a condition of absolute destitution and slavery. I’ve seen suicide become the leading cause of death, more than all disease and accidents combined. Many of them very intelligent and gifted people, who simply knew they had absolutely no hope of accomplishing anything in their lives that could possibly make them a worthwhile thing, and took the single and only good option they had open to them and decided to free themselves from a terrible thing.
Sean is able to be optimistic here, because hasn’t lived through the end result of what things could become, and simply understands things the way they have been in he past. I have reason to be optimistic as well, but my optimism comes from faith in the American people, as they are the single and only population in the entire world who’s belief in their individual freedom is still such that they will not be prepared to accept these conditions, and are willing to fight and die if necessary before they become completely intolerable, and are seemingly preparing to do so as we speak. I also have reason to be optimistic because of the many good statesmen we have elected to both our senate and congress who have not allowed themselves to be corrupted by our banking system, and are currently fighting tooth and nail in defense of both our political and economic freedoms against those politicians who have been corrupted and would take them away. Although Dr. Paul’s stated economic philosophies are different from the ones many of us share and are discussing here, he is still one of the first and foremost among these statesmen, and if our freedom is to survive, and if we are to regain any form of prosperity, it will be in large part due to the actions of him and those like him as well.
Anyway, please accept my most sincere compliments on your valuable insight and contributions to this discussion. Extending the same to Frank and juggergrimrod as well.
The End of America – Naomi Wolf sums up the state of the union and urges us to act – (47:47 min)
10 Steps all would-be Dictators do during a fascist shift, to close down an open society, crush a democracy, that are underway in America right now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvZosY3kK8E&NR=1
She thought legislation to impeach would be enough at first, but Ron Paul is the only one left to do the job she said. She now recommends prosecuting for treason.
From http://www.monetary.org
Doesn’t your AMA proposal merely continue with a fiat money system?
Shouldn’t we be using gold and silver instead? Wouldn’t that provide a more stable money?
Our system is absolutely a fiat money system. But that’s a good thing, not a bad one. In reaction to the many problems caused by our privatized fiat money system over the decades, many Americans have blamed fiat money for our troubles, and they support using valuable commodities for money.
But Folks! The problem is not fiat money, because all advanced money is a fiat of the Law! The problem is privately issued fiat money. Then that is like a private tax on all of us imposed by those with the privilege to privately issue fiat money. Private fiat money must now stop forever!
Aristotle gave us the science of money in the 4th century B.C. which he summarized as: “Money exists not by nature but by law!” So Aristotle accurately defines money as a legal fiat.
As for gold, most systems pretending to be gold systems have been frauds which never had the gold to back up their promises. And remember if you are still in a stage of trading things (such as gold) for other things, you are still operating in some form of barter system, not a real money system, and therefore not having the potential advantages as are available through the American Monetary Act!
And finally as regards gold and silver: Please do not confuse a good investment with a good money system. From time to time gold and silver are good investments. However you want very different results from an investment than you want from a money. Obviously you want an investment to go up and keep going up. But you want money to remain fairly stable. Rising money would mean that you’d end up paying your debts in much more valuable money. For example the mortgage on your house would keep rising if the value of money kept rising.
Also, contrary to prevailing prejudice, gold and silver have both been very volatile and not stable at all. Just check out the long term gold chart.
So they take the massive state/bank corruption of commodity standards and use that to argue against the standard itself? Yeah…that makes no sense.
So the government does indeed control the money supply under this fiat “non-credit money system”. I don’t trust it. Eagles fly, dolphins swim, and governments inflate. What’s to protect the people from the ravages of government induced inflation under this system? Is it the formula? I can clearly see how easily corrupted that formula would be. All that would have to happen would be for some segment of the people to come clamoring to government looking for some benefit. In fact, people don’t even need to clamor. The goverment could do it on it’s own terms. The treasury or whoever is in charge of the formula can easily say “hey, apparently there is more demand than our data set says. 3% inflation won’t do. We need at least 5% to fund these wars/programs/new departments/whatevers.” Again, why not leave people free to determine what they want to use as money?
Once again, thank you !. This makes perfect sense to me as well. I wonder, there are a lot of us on here who are thinking the same things, sharing the same opinions, and thinking outside the box in order to find and come up with ideas that could actually work to everyone’s benefit. We also seem to have a wide spectrum of knowledge and experience between us as well. Is there a chance that we may actually be able make these ideas known and put them into practice somehow ?. I’m seeing some hope here at this point.
Thanks. I would encourage you to poke around mises.org for a much clearer and in depth articulation of the ideas I hold. Especially for their thoughts on fractional reserve vs. full reserve banking. You stated elsewhere that you don’t trust banking and it produces no tangible benefit. Well, banking is actually a useful service. I think that the source of your unease is the fact that we have a fractional reserve system. Since you are a man of good will, you automatically sense the fraudulent nature of this practice.
I very much appreciate your candor and optimism.
I have to agree that “small” banking on a local level would be useful in terms of the distribution of the currency, whatever that many be, as opposed to having control of it and much of its creation as they do now. The problem is that even if their markup is only 1 or 2 % in interest, if they are allowed to keep it and cannot somehow be forced to put it back into circulation as soon as they get it, over 50 or 100 years they will have it all again, and then were right back to the same problem we have now. This would actually become an even greater threat with a hard currency than it is with the fiat / credit system. Until the last couple of years, they were at least creating large amounts of credit and putting it into circulation to replace some of what they had taken out, and even though they were working toward our destruction, at least things were moving somewhat. Its when they stopped issuing credit that the current economic crisis precipitated. With gold or silver, they would just keep accumulating it 1 % at a time until it was all gone. If they were allowed to exist, they could not be allowed to keep even the smallest portion of their profits otherwise the system would eventually have to collapse on itself again, and if this is the case there can’t be any incentive to providing a banking service.
Interest in private hands is a terribly insidious thing and can only accomplish one thing as well. The only possible means i can see to keep the supply in circulation over the long term, is to put it in public hands and use it to finance the operations of the state in lieu or taxes. This is the only possible way i can think of, that it would be guaranteed to be put back into circulation at some point.
So who controls this “non-credit money”? The government? If so, then it is doomed to fail. Explain how this is not just another version of Socialism? Best to get back to what works. The precious metals tend to hold their value over time.
The non credit money of Zarlenga is praised in “Web of Debt”. Go here for a thorough demolition of the idea…http://www.amazon.com/Web-Debt-Shocking-Truth-System/product-reviews/0979560829/ref=cm_cr_dp_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar
Okay, here’s the explanation. Anyone who has ever lived anywhere but here has figured out long ago that socialism is created by the Banks through the control they establish over the countries political process, just as they have been attempting to do in this one for the past hundred or so years.
As i’ve stated before, and there is no possible way to argue this as it’s a simple statement of fact, the Banks exist as parasites, contribute absolutely nothing of any tangible value to anyone, while raping the population of the majority of what they earn directly in the form of interest and indirectly through taxes which they make necessary. This should be obvious to anyone and everyone as well. When is the last time you saw a bank producing food, building or fixing a machine, constructing a building, etc., etc., etc. ?. As such they know that we don’t need them and would be better off without them and they live in absolute terror of us figuring this out for ourselves and simply getting rid of them as we should have long ago. As such they have no option but to institute a Socialist state, police each and every action of its population, censor the things that they see, hear and say in an attempt to control what people think, and institute gun control for the purpose of eliminating any means that the population might have to get rid of them before they realize whats been done to them and decide to do so.
Throughout the course of the last century the vast majority of the worlds population has accepted whatever propaganda they were fed, and firmly believed in, lived for and often died for, Socialism, Communism, and so called “free market” bank controlled capitalism. The end result of each of these systems is more power for those attempting to establish it at the expense of the freedom and prosperity of the population. Each and every one of these systems is entirely dependent on the majority of the population believing the lies and propaganda they use in order to lead them willingly to their own slaughter.
If you want to see America become a Socialist state, then simply continue to argue in defense of those who’s objective is to make it so.
Otherwise, the alternative is to stop accepting and believing and start thinking, looking for, and coming up with ideas that would actually benefit the population’s freedom and prosperity, as opposed to removing it from them. Not a single one of the established systems will accomplish this. We need something different, because the established systems simply cannot work to our benefit. Each and every one of them accomplishes the same result, as all are based on securing some form of power for someone, at the expense of everyone else’s freedom and prosperity.
Gold is good, as long as people attribute it value, it certainly is pretty, it’s a very dense material and would make good rifle bullets but beyond this its hard to come up with a practical application for it. Silver is good, as are iron, copper, steel, wood, aluminum, and any other useful substance, or substance to which people attribute value. They should be used as a means of trade. If any of these is established as a currency though, then our collective prosperity will be limited by the amount of that substance in our collective possession, unless and until its value is inflated to actually match our production capacity, at which point it simply becomes the equivalent of fiat money. Regardless of any of this, we simply need to create a means of exchange that would fulfill the single and only useful purpose that that any such means can have, which is to facilitate trade between a diverse range of people, and which cannot be manipulated as a means to power. The ancient Aztecs used beans and strips of cotton, so people could actually grow their own money, and the beans had a commeasurate value as well LOL. Once again the only possible way to do this is to have that means established, created and controlled by the people themselves.
Socialism has been brought to the US by the government working in collusion with banks. Fiat money is probably the most powerful tool of the socialist state. Commodity (sound) money is the enemy of the socialist state. Sound money is the protector of the people, liberty, and property.
Again, you say that you want the money controlled by the people. That is exactly what I would like to see happen. But then you want to see the issuance of currency/credit in the hands of the State. Make up your mind. The State is not the people. The State is, at best, a necessary evil and should be limited as much as possible. This is precisely what the Constitution was designed to accomplish. Government is to be limited to protecting our liberties and enforcing contracts. Unfortunately, the Constitution is ignored and we do not have such a system. We do not have a market based money. We have government issued fiat currency. As we have seen, when the money supply of a country is in the hands of government (as it is today) the liberties of the people are eroded and the authority of contracts is undermined.
You may object and say that it’s actually the banks which are the cause of our ills. In a sense, this is so. But the banks are essentially partnered with government/the central bank. A fractional reserve system cannot be sustained without a central bank. The market would eventually destroy fractional reserve banking. Why? Because any bank participating in fractional reserve banking is subject to bank runs. A bank run is essentially a spontaneous audit of the bank by it’s customers. If the bank is not pursuing sound lending standards and honoring it’s contractual obligations (engaging in fractional reserve banking) it will go bankrupt and the people will take their money elsewhere. That is a healthy aspect of free-markets. The threat of bankruptcy forces banks to follow sound policies. It is the authority of government legal tender laws (which allows Gresham’s Law to take hold) coupled with a central bank issuing fiat currency which allows the fraudulent system to continue. It allows the power and influence of the State and their favored institutions (banks and others) to expand at the expense of the people.
Why not repeal legal tender laws and let the people decide what they want to use as money? If they want to use unbacked government paper, fine. If beans and strips of cotton prove to be the most readily accepted commodity, okay. But I wouldn’t be shocked at all if the people decided (through their free actions/exchanges) to use gold/silver as their chosen money.
Also, you state that “our collective prosperity will be limited by the amount of that substance in our collective possession, unless and until its value is inflated to actually match our production capacity”. This statement contains two errors. The first is that it mistakes money for wealth. It is a common error. This will help you understand the fallacy: http://fee.org/articles/the-fallacy-of-money-is-wealth/
Secondly, the value does not need to be inflated at all to match our production. Why? Because prices are free to adjust. If the money stock is essentially constant (as it tends to be under a commodity standard), increased production results in lower prices. Lower prices is exactly what productive and healthy economies produce. This is a good thing. It means more goods/services are available to more people. That is, it produces a higher standard of living for the people in general.
http://mises.org/story/1914
“It is impossible to grasp the meaning of the idea of sound money if one does not realize that it was devised as an instrument for the protection of civil liberties against despotic inroads on the part of governments. Ideologically it belongs in the same class with political constitutions and bills of right.” Ludwig Von Mises
Nate, thank you for this post, and your response to one of my others as well. These give me a much clearer perception of your philosophies than i had before and it seems like we do have common objectives here as well. To be honest, you are starting to win me over, as your objective seems to be identical to my own, in that you seem to simply wish to eliminate whatever means of exchange we use from being used as a source of power. Thank you for clarifying that.
I’m an engineer, which is probably good as i’m used to thinking in practical terms and make a living by solving problems and making things work. Your understanding of the functioning of a gold or silver based system is obviously much greater than my own, and this is indeed what we had prior to the last century, and at that point the banks although they existed, had not managed to exert anywhere near the amount of control and power that they have established today. Conversely, this is also what Britain had when King George outlawed the colonial script and it was controlled by the banks just as paper currency and credit is now, who failed to supply it in sufficient quantities to meet the needs of the colonies. Whether fiat or sound money, the potential for abuse by the banks is there but with gold or silver at least they would not have the power to create it and would have to get it from someplace. As long as the prices would indeed adjust in accordance with the supply of whatever medium of exchange we used, then the Gold based system would work as well. Lol at the very least it might stabilize the price of gold, and i can understand juggergrimrods concerns in regards to this and its use as a currency as well, i.e. money VS investment.
Maybe a gold based currency is the answer, maybe paper money, if issued and controlled by the people is as well, provided of course that their representatives elected to create and control it, can themselves be controlled by the people and prevented from using this as a means to power. You do raise a very legitimate concern in regards to this. As long as the means of exchange can be secured against becoming a means to power, and will allow for the greatest possible development of our production capacity and consequently the maximum possible benefit to our population, then the objective has been accomplished.
The one thing i’m seeing now, is the massive amounts of money that are being siphoned off by the banks in the form of mortgage and credit interest each and every month from every American city and state, and i see such a massive potential for prosperity if this money were simply allowed to stay in place and continue to work in the hands of the people who create that prosperity in the first place with the useful and productive things they do, and have the potential to create so much more given the means to pay for it. I see the profits being generated by the banks in creating currency and credit out of thin air and i see the massive potential prosperity for everyone were this to be done by the people for their own benefit as well. I do worry that since gold has intrinsic value and is an actual commodity in addition to a potential means of exchange, that it could be used as a means to power for those who manage to accumulate enough of it, but then, with the banks out of the picture, the only way to do this would be to accomplish something useful and productive in order to accumulate the gold in the first place, and someone capable of doing that should not have any need for power. You also express an equally legitimate concern about elected representatives misusing a paper currency as a means to power for themselves as well. I guess that whatever we do, will have to be done very carefully, and also regulated in the same fashion as our constitution restricts the power of government to abrogate the individual rights and freedoms that it guarantees. I will always strongly object to any form of banking industry, since they contribute absolutely nothing of any tangible value to anyone or anything, and were the state to take over their function then the interest they charge could be used in lieu of taxes to fund its operations. I think that we can all agree that a tax free society would be an incredibly wonderful thing.
The bottom line is that i’m open to anything that would allow our country to realize it’s maximum potential in terms of both individual freedom and prosperity, and all this will take is a consistent, and reliable supply of currency in whatever form in sufficient quantity to pay for what we can do. I expect this could be accomplished in any number of ways, and I think you would be happy with this as well. Again i’m glad i have a better understanding of your position now, your objective is identical to my own, we’ve just been thinking of different methods of accomplishing the same thing. Hopefully one of them or something completely different can be made to work before its too late.
I’m glad we realize our common ground.
You mentioned you are an engineer. I’m very impressed and thankful. I enjoy the fruits of engineers’ labor during every moment of my life. But it could be that your engineer’s mind needs to be switched off when you think about economics. That is, you may want to consider that economics cannot be understood using the same framework as the hard sciences like physics, chemistry, etc. and their applications (engineering). Why? Because economics has to reckon with a peculiar variable that is not present in math, structural engineering, physics, etc. That variable is human beings. Economics is a science of human action.
I hope that didn’t come off as arrogant.
Anyway, talk with you later.
Economics is mathematics. There is an equation for everything in life. Predicting future economics is impossible because math can’t be based on future judgments, but they tend to use mathematics based on passed traits. haha the fed doesn’t do this, but yes marketing companies do use mathematics in economics to base future decisions. It’s more accurate than not.
Hi Nate;
Yeah i think we both may have come off as a little arrogant because we weren’t understanding each others objectives correctly, and for that i certainly apologize. I’m glad we’ve established that now and it does seem that pretty much everyone here is working toward the same thing as well. Just different ideas how to accomplish it.
You are absolutely correct, economics should be a simple science, and if it were things would be simple enough to work as well, but there is always the human element that complicates things just as it has with our current system to the point where if it isn’t changed there is no possible way that this country can survive any longer. Whatever we do, it will entail trying to eliminate that factor so that whatever we establish can become a true science and will be allowed to work. If the elements of greed and corruption can be prevented from working on whatever economic system we end up with, then we will have been successful.
It’s been my experience that about 30 % of the people in this world take pleasure in seeing the people around them happy and successful. The remaining 70 % will do everything they possibly can in order to inflict every possible ounce of strife, hardship, and misery on those around them as it makes them feel powerful. This is of course the single and only purpose of power, if you don’t want to do that, you just don’t need it for anything. Fortunately in this country i think the discrepancy is not as great and id assume about a 50/50 split. Anywhere else, power is all they understand as that’s all they’ve ever been subjected to.
Since its the latter who are generally the ones seeking out positions of power so that they can feed their cravings for it, it will be absolutely essential to put something in place in order to prevent them from doing so economically, just as our constitution attempts to do politically, and has done with reasonable success over the past 235 odd years as well. Fortunately, its the former who are generally in possession of the intelligence, as to be one of the latter requires a complete and total absence of all sense, reason, and basic human decency (despite the great efforts made by some to pretend that they have it). Although some of the latter may possess a degree of intelligence its all directed toward the single purpose, which in and of itself cannot accomplish anything but to bring harm, as it has done so much of already.
Really this all comes down to something far simpler than economics or politics. Eliminate all power, as it is the single and only source of every evil that has ever existed in this world, and once eliminated, only freedom can exist in its place.
I guess one partial solution would be to adopt a Swiss style democracy, where elected representatives can propose legislation but the only power to pass it is in referendum, but then people can be collectively motivated to do incredibly stupid things to themselves. Based on our own experience in this country, it seems that constitutions are far more effective in protecting liberty than any form of democratic process. Ours obviously needs to be expanded to secure and protect our economic liberty as well.
Anyway, there’s something for everyone to think about, but first things first. Right now we very urgently need to get rid of the banks and put the money we need to trade with back into the system in whatever form. People are dying out there and this simply cannot wait any longer. Since the banks and the politicians wont do it, we’ll have to figure out how to make it happen ourselves. I’m curious as to what you think of the idea of a nationwide mortgage, credit and tax revolt as a means of forcing this to happen ?
Isn’t it time for the American people to re-start the Greenback party? Have we had enough of the bankster-gangster rape of America and the world. Pathetocrats and Rethugs are not going to do anything people. We need a third party.
1. Place the Federal Reserve under control of the Treasury with the power to issue non interest bearing money.
2. Prevent banks from creating “money” as credit
3. Bring banks up to 100% reserves and pay off the national debt
4. Repeal the 16th amendent, the income tax.
And therein lies the solution, seems like a simple enough thing to me, once again thanks.
Thanks David for being here and for contributing your most excellent intelligence to this site…..
Thanks for the compliments too…..
Janice
Here is your Audit of the Federal Reserve!
by Walter Burien – 06/21/09
Gee, it appears everyone recently is looking for an audit of the Federal Reserve to be done, why look or wait any longer, here it is!
All you had to do was ask, they have provided one each year for the last 96 years.
Here is for 2008 – http://cafr1.com/STATES/FEDERAL-RESERVE/FR2008AR.pdf
Here is for 2007 – http://cafr1.com/STATES/FEDERAL-RESERVE/FR2007CAFR.pdf
Here is for 2006 – http://cafr1.com/STATES/FEDERAL-RESERVE/FR2006CAFR.pdf
http://cafr1.com/FRaudit.html
Again, audit the Federal Reserve banks you say, well here it is. The Federal Reserve’s Annual Report “is an audit” of the Federal Reserve as noted and signed off upon by several independent parties as noted in the report.
To date I have not been able to figure out why several other parties have been pushing for a “special bill” to audit the Federal Reserve System when all they have to do is download it.
Maybe they want an audit of the audit?
Here is your Audit of the Federal Reserve!
by Walter Burien – 06/21/09
DUH! See you just have to know somebody who knows what the heck their doing! LOL!
Your absolutely right Jugger….
Did you know that our government has been collecting $20 trillion dollars a year from all of the Federal Taxes that the Treasury collects? Since President George H. Bush was President.
So, where is that money, could it be in the Treasury Department?
Should we be auditing the Treasury Department instead of the Federal money creators? Maybe we are looking in all the wrong places! The Treasure could be under Pinocchio’s/Geitner’s nose!
The Federal Government has always had a $5 Trillion budget..and have done something with the other $15 Trillion, which they haven’t revealed that secret yet.
Now I know with the economy and their hiring illegals in our place who aren’t paying their taxes that the tax base has gone down…but for 25 years they had that kind of money….I”ve known about it for 7 years, very few have believed me ….but 200 others heard it too from a PH.D in taxes at a meeting….he said then it is our right to be able to borrow money at 2% interest….its our money and the government has no right to charge us the interest they do.
Taxes Collected This Year by:
US Federal Government
$1,631,768,900,900 and ticking……
http://cafr1.com/
Did you know that every state,county,city, in the USA has had excess taxes on property taxes that they do not return to the people but have been putting into “their” Retirement fund for 55 years….and it has not been touched but has been collecting interest for all those years! No wonder government’s do not worry about loosing “their” 401K’s or retirement or their Health Insurance.
Its called in their yearly budget .the CAFR fund. It has to be made public and is online in some counties for your viewing if you know what your looking for.
Even the treasurer often doesn’t understand why it is not audited or why it is there, all he knows it is , no one spends from it.
So, when a judge wants his salary increased say $10,000 the assessors run out and jack the property taxes up to cover the raise that the judge is demanding.
IN the town where I used to live in Michigan..the county, the last I looked, had $133 million in their CAFA fund. It has earned $1 million dollars, in interest, a year in the past 4 yrs. during these very bad economic years.
It has not decreased either, very few are alive and collecting their retirement pay from it …..It pays for their healthcare benefits as well…
My own state of Michigan says its broke but, the last I looked it had $8 billion in their CAFR retirement fund!
I don’t know if any of you can handle this or not……but the facts are the facts…..do you want to know?
If you do, go to this site…….and look up your state and your county CAFR fund
title of it: CAFR AWARD WINNERS FOR FISCAL YEARS ENDED IN 2006
http://cafr1.com/GFOA/GFOAWIN2006/GFOA2006.html
CAFR DOWNLOADS
OLDER CAFRs – LOCAL GOVERNMENT
CLICK ON Button BUTTON
http://cafr1.com/
Local and Federal Government’s gross income in 1999 was 8.5 trillion dollars and the entire population’s of the USA gross income, “net after taxation” 4.8 trillion dollars.
Would you like to see the Government Accounting Office (GAO) Audit of the IRS?
Then CLICK HERE (to save this file you have to scroll to the end of the report for it to finish uploading then it can be saved)
Jump to page 89 and 90. (Data for the 1999 report gives 1997’s info shown)
Personal individual income of the USA is listed as 5 trillion dollars (add across all in Gross Income column) and
Corporate at 15.5 trillion dollars (add across all in Total Receipts column)
After Corporate deductions it left the largest corporations with about a 1.5% tax bill and
for personal income (page 89) after deductions for the largest personal individual incomes a 27.04% tax bill.
Smile Comrade, it could be worse? Or could it?
Solving the Budget “Shortfalls”
by Walter Burien
07/08/09
CLICK HERE
Who Rules America
“The Private sector perspective”
by G. William Domhoff
09/23/09
CLICK HERE
09/09/09 – The CAFR1 Money Bomb has officially started as of today!
CLICK HERE
http://cafr1.com/
I love TRUTH….but you can see that knowing it and being able to do something about it is another thang….
I forgot one other website address….
http://taxretirement.com/
Want to End all Taxation?
O.K. Let’s do it!
Check out the video in the middle of page….
The Declaration of Independence
TRF – The time has come!
Mr. Jugger Grimrod, only real money is the non-credit money as gift. Non-credit money is the necessary additional quantity of money in circulation (dM) as percentage (k) of existinig quantity of money in circulation (M). dM = kM ; k = (supply – demand)/demand
China and Australia use non-credit money. Cucinich, Zarlenga and Cook propose non-credit money. Non-credit money is only real money.
Reid ‘Likely’ to Make Entire Health Bill an Amendment to Unrelated Tax Bill That House Passed in March
Wednesday, October 07, 2009
By Nicholas Ballasy, Video Reporter
SOURCE: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/55081
(PLEASE WATCH THE VIDEO, AND NOTE HARRY REID’S ARROGANCE)
(CNSNews.com) — A senior aide to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told CNSNews.com that it is “likely” that Reid will use H.R. 1586—a bill passed by the House in March to impose a 90-percent tax on bonuses paid to employees of certain bailed-out financial institutions—as a “shell” for enacting the final version of the Senate’s health care bill, which Reid is responsible for crafting.
Under the procedure, the substance of House Resolution 1586 would be removed and replaced with the entire Senate health care package. The maneuver would initially require the support of 60 senators to vote for cloture on the motion to proceed to H.R. 1586 (i.e., end debate on the congressional procedure and move forward).
If Reid wins 60 votes, then debate begins on his health care package. Reid could then decide to block all amendments and attempt to get a vote on the entire package.
However, a senator could filibuster the final vote, requiring another 60-vote majority to move forward. But if Reid decides to allow any amendments, each amendment could be filibustered, requiring a 60-vote majority to move to a final vote on each of them. An amendment that has the support of more than 50 but less than 60 senators could end up stopping the bill if neither side backs down. But if Reid is able to structure the debate so that all 60 senators who caucus with the Democrats stick with the party on cloture votes, he can pass the bill and send it to back to the House–where it originated as an entirely different bill in substance.
If the House were to then vote on the bill as passed by the Senate without amending it, it could be sent directly to the president for his signature without going through a House-Senate conference committee and another round of votes in each chamber.
Concerning that point, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) told CNSNews.com on Tuesday that he would not rule in or rule out the possibility of the House holding a direct vote on the Senate health care bill without amending it if it came to the House in the form of H.R. 1586.
The actual final text of the legislation will be determined by Reid himself, who will consolidate the legislation approved by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee and the still-unapproved legislation from the Senate Finance Committee. Reid will be able to draft and insert textual language that was not expressly approved by either committee.
“It is not definite, but at this point likely, since it is what is available on the calendar,” said the senior aide about Reid using H.R. 1586 as a vehicle for the final text of the Senate health care bill.
“If we received another revenue raising bill from the House, we could use that as well,” said the aide. “The underlying text of the bill only matters in the fact that it is a revenue raising bill so that it can serve as a vehicle for us to use. That is all it is. Once you substitute another bill into it that is what the legislation becomes.”
The aide explained that the health care bill will contain tax provisions and that because the Constitution allows only the House to originate revenue bills, the health care bill must originate in the House. To comply with that constitutional mandate, the Senate must attach its version of the health-care bill to a tax bill that has already passed the House.
“Constitutionally we cannot, we can’t bring that [Reid’s final version of the health care bill] to the Senate floor because anything that’s considered a revenue raising measure, constitutionally we can’t just do that over in the Senate, it has to start in the House,” said the aide. “So, what we do whenever we have situations where you have legislation that’s a revenue raising measure that we end up taking up before the House does, we have to use a bill that’s already been passed by the House that’s on the calendar and available to us and use that just as a shell measure.”
“So you just bring that to the floor [H.R. 1586], then you amend it with a complete substitute of, you know, whatever bill you want to consider,” said the aide. “In this case it would be that health reform bill. That would substitute the language. So you wouldn’t have the language from the House bill even to consider anymore, it would be this new language that would be, in this case the health bill.”
In a piece entitled “Congress’ Secret Plan to Pass Obamacare,” Heritage Foundation analyst Brian Darling described the same procedure described by Reid’s aide.
“Majority Leader Reid may, with the proper amount of votes in the Senate (60), offer the Health Care reform bill coming out of the Senate as a complete substitute to an unrelated House-passed bill–H.R. 1586, a bill to impose a tax on bonuses received by certain TARP recipients,” wrote Darling. “This means that the entire health care reform effort will be included as an amendment to a TARP bill that has been collecting dust in the Senate for months.”
H.R. 1586 was approved by the House on March 19 as a means of getting back tax dollars that were paid out in bonuses this year to employees of AIG and other financial institutions that had received more than $5 billion in bailout money from the federal government. In the intervening six-and-a-half months, the Senate has not acted on this House bill.
The senior aide to Reid stressed the constitutional necessity of using an already-approved House tax bill as the vehicle for passing the Senate’s health care reform package.
“I mean, this is constitutional, you have to do it,” said the aide. “I mean the House has to start revenue raising measures. And when you have cases, which happen, it happens all the time where the Senate actually ends up going first on something, you have to use, you know, the House shell bill to do that. And it’s whatever is available on the calendar and in this case, it happens to be this bill [H.R. 1586].”
Darling said that when this technique is used, the bill does not have to go to conference if the House votes on the bill again without changing what the Senate has done.
The senior aide to Reid said “it is still early to say” if the final bill will go to conference, but said that the “next likely step” would in fact be a conference committee to iron out the difference between the House and Senate versions of health care reform.
In a Sept. 17 interview at the Latino Congressional Caucus gala, Majority Leader Reid told CNSNews.com that he would put together the final version of the health care bill and that it would differ in some ways from the Finance Committee’s bill.
“The bill that came out of the Finance Committee isn’t something that is going to get the immediate approval of everybody in America or every senator, but it’s part of the process,” said Reid. “That bill will go now to full committee. They will have a markup. They’ll report a bill out of that committee and then I will take that bill and the bill from the HELP Committee and put it together and bring it on the floor. That’s the bill we need to focus on.”
“We’ll find out before a bill gets on the floor how much it will cost,” said Reid. “I don’t think we should be locked into any number.”
Darling said that as majority leader Reid has broad power to shape the final version of the bill.
“The Leader has the power to write a bill any way his caucus will allow,” said Darling.
“There are no effective limits,” he said, “but the Leader is limited by the general parameters of the Senate HELP and Finance Committee products so that he can claim it is a merging of the two bills.”
Darling also said Reid can put “whatever he wants” into the final bill.
“There is not a limit of the subject matter of the bill,” said Darling. “Reid can put whatever he wants into the bill if the Democrat caucus allows it. It is up to him whether a public option is in the bill or whether the Senate inserts a trigger before a public option comes into effect.”
“Senator Reid is limited by what the Senate will tolerate,” said Darling. “There is no way to stop the Senate Majority Leader from moving to proceed to a House-passed bill, then offering up his own version of Obamacare. Because the Democrat caucus has a working majority of 60 votes, they can do what they want and individual Republican members only have the power to extend debate and attempt to offer Amendments. If Reid uses a parliamentary procedure to block amendments, by ‘Filling the Tree,’ then members will have to get the consent of the Leader to offer Amendments. Reid is only limited by the lengths his caucus allows to pass a bill.”
The timeline for this process is still unclear. An amendment proposed by Sen. Jim Bunning (R-Ky.) in the Finance Committee markup would have required the full text of that committee’s bill to be posted online for 72 hours before the committee could vote on it. But that amendment was defeated.
Reid’s senior aide did not want to get into the specifics of the bill because it is “too early,” but said the final bill Reid brings to the floor will likely include not only sections of the Senate Finance and HELP committee bills that overlap but also sections that do not overlap.
“There are several portions of the two bills that overlap, the portions that do not will likely be included in the final bill as well,” said the aide. “That bill will then of course be open to amendments on the floor where I would anticipate certain portions of the bill have a possibility of being taken out.”
A Republican Senate leadership aide echoed Darling’s analysis, saying the Senate Democratic leadership can redraft the health care bill any way it wants before bringing it to the floor.
“Inspector General Report Finds Paulsen, Bernanke Misled Public on Bank Rescues” Monday, OCtober 5TH, 2009′
SOURCE: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/05/government-report-questions-bank-rescue-claims/
WASHINGTON — The credibility of the government’s $700 billion financial rescue program was damaged by claims a year ago that all of the initial banks receiving support were healthy, a new report contends. Special Inspector General Neil Barofsky generally found that the government had acted properly in October 2008 as it scrambled to implement the Troubled Asset Relief Program to avert the collapse of the U.S. financial system. But the report said that then-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and other officials were wrong to contend at an Oct. 14 press conference that all nine institutions receiving the first round of support — $125 billion — were sound. “These are healthy institutions, and they have taken this step for the good of the economy,” Paulson had declared at the time. Barofsky said that the fact that Citigroup Inc. and Bank of America Corp. soon required billions in additional assistance highlighted the inaccuracy of that claim and raised questions about the whole effort. In addition, Merrill Lynch, which was also in the original nine, was in the process of being acquired by Bank of America because of its weakening financial position.
“Statements that are less than careful or forthright — like those made in this case — may ultimately undermine the public’s understanding and support,” the report said. “This loss of public support could damage the government’s credibility and have long-term unintended consequences that actually hamper the government’s ability to respond to crises.” In announcing the $125 billion in support to the nine institutions, Paulson had said that by building up the capital reserves of these healthy institutions, it would allow them to resume normal lending to businesses and consumers and help stabilize the financial system. The nine institutions, including JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Wells Fargo & Co., held about 75 percent of the assets of the U.S. banking system at the time.
A joint statement from Treasury, the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. also referred to the nine institutions as healthy. In commenting on Barofsky’s report, the Federal Reserve generally supported the findings, saying “transparency and effective communications are important to restoring and maintaining public confidence, especially during a financial crisis.” But Assistant Treasury Secretary Herbert Allison Jr., who now heads the bailout program for the government, said that any critique of the announcements made a year ago should take into consideration the unprecedented circumstances facing financial regulators at the time.
“We believe the most important lesson from this history is that quick, forceful action prevented a catastrophic meltdown of the system,” Allison wrote in his response to Barofsky’s findings.
Barofsky serves as the auditor for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, a position that was created by Congress when it passed the $700 billion bailout fund on Oct. 3, 2008. In his new report, Barofsky reviewed Paulson’s decision to switch the focus of the program from buying up toxic assets from banks to spur new lending to direct injections of capital. The report cited developments that supported Paulson’s contention that financial conditions were deteriorating so quickly that the government did not have the time needed to get the toxic asset program up and running.
The government just announced last week that two large investment funds have raised the minimum amounts needed to begin purchasing toxic assets from banks, a full year after Congress authorized the program. The new report also provided information on interviews conducted with embattled Bank of America CEO Kenneth Lewis and Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke over their conversations regarding Bank of America’s acquisition of Merrill Lynch. A congressional committee has investigated whether the government pressured Lewis, who announced this past week that he would leave Bank of America at year’s end, to continue with the merger despite sharply rising losses at Merrill Lynch and to delay revealing those losses. The report said that it had “found nothing to indicate Treasury and Federal Reserve officials instructed Bank of America executives to withhold the public disclosure of losses,” the report said.
My fellow Americans, How much more of this CRAP are we going to tolerate and/or put up with? These people should be “under the jailhouse”.
Thank you so much Frank, for illustrating the sheer corruption and stupidity of our current economic and political system, no one could have done it better.
This is simply not going to end unless and until the American people have had enough and set up guillotines on Wall Street and in Washington, start chopping off the heads of these assholes, and re-establish our constitution, and a government “BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, AND OF THE PEOPLE”, instead of “BY THE BANKS, OF THE BANKS AND FOR THE BANKS” as we have today. I look at the misery that’s been created for myself and most of the people i know at the current time, simply by these bastards removing all the money from the system that people need to pay for the things they can do, and to do this would be a kindness to them, as it is much less than they actually deserve.
As i stated in my last, this is not going to be solved by our political process, as the banks will simply manipulate that so that to their own advantage and have the power and money to do so. The alternatives are a second “American Revolution”, or for the entire population to get organized and simply stop making all payments to the banks at the same time. In such a case the economy would have been restored in one month by the hundreds of billons of dollars that would remain in circulation which would then be used to buy something which had to be produced by someone, force the government to either capitulate or take control of our currency and credit for the benefit of the American people, as it should have been all along.
This is something that the vast majority of the people in our country would agree with at the present time, the problem is how to we get them organized to act collectively and do something about it before its too late. Any ideas ? anyone ?.
I’ve been thinking about that ……lets stop making credit card payments to the banks that got bailed-out and big bonus’s…..
Bank of America, HSBC, Citi Bank….to name a few…..
So when do we start? I”m for it.
I can’t afford to live anymore without a job ….and eat and pay my bills and Healthinsurance…and according to President Obama this could go on for ten years….so if we start now the bad creditors we defaulted will be off our credit reports in 7 years..I’ll make my car last that long, my clothes and I’ll cut my own hair..I paid two credit cards big payments and big interest for the past year…and it brought it down $120 ….they each got $900…no way…..I ain’t doing it another year and eating rice and beans another year…sorry…..
We could all be dead soon anyway from their Flu jab..flu spreading technigue! So I’m ready …..this month…..if They would drop the interest rate down to what federal and state employers are getting 3.5% on loans ….then I’d go back to paying it…..but otherwise they can kiss my dupa!
Or you could go to a 2-year college and get a good job before the recession is officially over. I know a guy that is getting welfare checks to pay for his living expenses while he is getting his associates degree. Nows the time to take advantage, to get your piece of the stimulus pie.
Well, the real unemployment rate, including those that have given up looking for work, is currently at 17 %. It will be at 60 % before the end of 4 years, and what jobs there are left will pay less than nothing because of the competition for them. Anyone foolish enough to go to college now for 2 years will end up working at McDonalds for the next 20 years in order to try and pay off their student loans, and the banks and the politicians will be laughing their asses off over the misery they’ve been able to inflict on so many people, it makes them “feel” so powerful when they can do that. Its already happened everywhere in the world except here, and its happening here now.
THERE IS NO F’ING PIE, THE BANKS HAVE EATEN IT ALL, ITS GONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no hope, and there will be no hope, short of the solutions i, and a few others have been proposing here. If the American People don’t get organized, take matters into their own hands and stop the problem before it gets worse, which they can still do. Then the single and only country left in the world which has any degree of freedom whatsoever will cease to exist.
haha, whatever! the person who goes to school for two years will have a better job than you!
So you think unemployment will reach 60%? Is this coming from professor David?
Hehehehe, Janice, your a woman after my own heart. Here’s the bottom line, myself as well as most of the people i know, were running successful businesses before this recession was manufactured for us, our production capacity hasn’t changed one bit, but the banks have simply sucked all the money out of the system that’s needed to pay for what we can build, and before the recession we were only producing at 1/3 of our actual capacity because 60 % of the money that everyone earned was going to the banks. Now all of us are in exactly the same position you are, and if something isn’t done about this the economic situation will only get much worse and we will end up losing our political freedoms as well, there is nothing now and then there will be less than nothing.
Yes, stop paying those credit cards, and never pay them, even if the offer you a 1% interest rate. Do not feel one bit of guilt of remorse for it either, your paying on something they have stolen from you in the first place. All they can do is call, so either screen your calls of tell them “It’s never going to happen” and hang up. I did this 5 years ago as did a great many other people in the country, and there have been absolutely no consequences for any of them other than keeping the money in circulation for a little longer, and that benefits everyone but the banks, who are the greatest enemies of our constitution and the American people.
This is just the tip of the iceberg though, we need to put the banks and the politicians they control out of business permanently. That will mean getting the majority of the people organized, and agreeing that on a specific date they will stop making their mortgage payments, and also stop paying all taxes as well, if everyone does it, there’s nothing they can do. This would put the banks out of business overnight, and force the government to either start producing free currency and credit and put it into circulation to fund its operations, or capitulate, as they would have no other options. Subsequently, if people would just give up on the idea of voting either Republican or Democrat, who are both bought and paid for by the banks, and establish a government in the following election who would actually administer this currency and credit for our benefit, then we would know prosperity such as we could not possibly imagine now. Its such a simple thing to do as well. The bottom line is that i am capable of producing one hell of a lot of very cool and useful stuff, and in order to keep me and everyone like me producing at our full capacity, they would not only be able to eliminate all taxes, but would have to send a check for around $ 1,000.00 a month to every person in America, above and beyond what they were able to earn. You get rich from whatever you are doing, as your basic living is already paid for, you make me rich by buying what i can build here, and you end up enjoying the benefits of these things for the rest of your life as well and can just keep buying more and more. What’s wrong with that picture ? If anyone thinks this isn’t possible, just look at the combined annual profits of America’s banks. Take these parasites out of the picture and that money is ours, and many times more, for the increase in our production capacity that having enough would provide. A 6 year old could figure it out, but never an economist, common sense is required to do that, and not an education that is based on complicating the simplest things in order to justify not having to do anything useful, LOL.
The bugger again is how to make contact with the entire American population and inform them of the plan and get them co-operating with each other for their own benefit. As i said in some of my previous, ideas anyone ?.
haha what a joke. lets listen to professor David and not pay off our credit cards so we can ruin our credit score and never be able to buy a car or a home. That’s the david way!
So you’re arguing that the banks have no money to provide you with funds to build, but at the same time you are suggesting we put a stop to banking.. Than where would you get the money to build?
At least we should get rid of the shadow banking system. We should invest our money into traditional banks instead of these huge security companies.
Sean, there is no option to reply to your reply to this, but if you see this, i’d suggest that you forget about everything you’ve been told up until this point, and how things are done under the current system, and give this matter some long and careful and independent thought. Think about this in very simple terms as well, as it really is a very simple thing, and things that can actually work generally are.
Your going on the presumption here that the money and credit come from the banks and that they own it when in reality they simply have managed to gain control of something that actually belongs to us through the corruption of our political process, and this simply isn’t true. All you have to do is look at the “United States of America” emblazoned across the top of each of our dollar bills in order to determine who that dollar really belongs to.
As to where we would get the money to build without the banks, we would simply create and distribute it ourselves, through our elected representatives, just as the banks create it now. The only difference is that in this instance the many trillions of dollars that are going to the banks every year in interest, would be available for our own benefit instead of theirs. Since they don’t build anything, fix anything, feed anyone or contribute anything of any tangible value to anyone or anything. Why should they need to exist ?
Monetary reform is the critical missing element needed to move humanity back from the brink of nuclear disaster, away from a future dominated by fraud and warfare, toward a world of justice and beauty.
The power to create money is an awesome power – at times stronger than the Executive, Legislative or Judicial powers combined. It’s like having a “magic checkbook,” where checks can’t bounce. When controlled privately it can be used to gain riches, but more importantly it determines the direction of our society by deciding where the money goes – what gets funded and what does not. Will it be used to build and repair vital infrastructure such as Levees to protect major cities? Or will it go into warfare or real estate loans, creating asset price inflation – the real estate bubble.
Thus the money issuing power should never be alienated from democratically elected government and placed ambiguously into private hands as it is in America in the Federal Reserve System today.
Indeed most people would be surprised to learn that the bulk of our money supply is not created by our government, but by private banks when they make loans. Through the Feds fractional reserve process the system creates purchasing media when banks make loans into checking accounts. So most of our money is issued as interest-bearing debt.
We are borrowing this money system from private banks when instead we should own the system, not rent it. Our government has the sovereign power to issue money (Art.1, Sect.8) and spend it into circulation to promote the general welfare through the creation and repair of infrastructure, including human infrastructure – health and education – rather than misusing the money system for speculation as banking has historically done. Our lawmakers must now reclaim that power!
Money has value because of skilled people and resources and infrastructure, working together in a supportive social and legal framework. Money is the indispensable lubricant that lets them “run.” It is not tangible wealth in itself, but a power to obtain wealth. Money is an abstract social power based in law and whatever government accepts in payment of taxes will be money. Money’s value is not created by the private corporations that now control it.
Unhappily, mankind’s experience with private money creation has undeniably been a long history of fraud, mismanagement and even villainy.* Banking abuses are pervasive and self-evident. Major companies focus on misusing the money system instead of production. For example, in June 2005, Citibank and Merrill Lynch paid over $1.2 Billion to Enron pensioners to settle fraud charges.
Private money creation through fractional reserve banking fosters an unprecedented concentration of wealth which destroys the democratic process and ultimately promotes imperialism. Less than 1% of the population claims ownership of almost 50% of the wealth, but vital infrastructure is ignored. The American Society of Civil Engineers gives a D grade to our infrastructure and estimates that $1.6 trillion is needed to bring it to acceptable levels.
That fact alone shows the world’s dominant money system to be a major failure crying for reform.
Infrastructure repair would provide quality employment throughout the nation. There is a pretense that government must either borrow or tax to get the money for such projects. But it is a well enough known, that the government can directly create the money needed and spend it into circulation for such projects, without inflationary results.
Monetary reform is achieved in 3 parts which must be enacted together for it to work. Any one or any two of them alone won’t do it, but could actually further harm the monetary situation.
First, incorporate the Federal Reserve System into the U.S. Treasury where all new money is created by government as money, not interest-bearing debt, and spent into circulation to promote the general welfare; monitored to be neither inflationary nor deflationary.
Second, halt the banks privilege to create money by ending the fractional reserve system in a gentle and elegant way. All the past monetized private credit is converted into U.S. government money. Banks then act as intermediaries accepting savings deposits and loaning them out to borrowers; what people think they do now.
Third, spend new money into circulation on infrastructure, including education and healthcare needed for a growing society, starting with the $1.6 trillion that the American Society of Civil Engineers estimate is needed for infrastructure repair; creating good jobs across our nation, re-invigorating local economies and re-funding government at all levels.
The false specter of inflation is usually raised against such suggestions that our government fulfill its responsibility to furnish the nation’s money supply. But that is a knee jerk reaction – the result of decades, even centuries of propaganda against government. When one actually examines the monetary record, it becomes clear that government has a superior record issuing and controlling money than the private issuers have.* Inflation is avoided because real material wealth has been created in the process.
This press release from the recent monetary reform conference in Chicago, which I addressed highlights the beneficial effects of the plan both in terms of saving on interest, and in avoiding such disasters in the first place:
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Money Reform Plan Would Save Taxpayers $ Billions Per Year in Katrina Cleanup
“An alteration in the way money is introduced into our economy would save at least $10 billion dollars per year in the cleanup and rebuilding aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. If the clean-up loans last the normal 30 years, the savings will be over $250 billion,” says Stephen Zarlenga, Director of the Institute. The plan, known as The American Monetary Act was discussed at the American Monetary Institute 2005 Monetary Reform Conference….
The proposed three part reform of our currency system would have the U.S. Government directly spend the money into circulation rather than the present method of allowing the banking system to create the money and then the government borrowing the money. Funding such infrastructure expenses through bonds generally doubles to triples their final cost.
The reform avoids this expense by removing the fractional reserve provision of the present system, which in effect allows the banking system to create the much needed new money that must be continually introduced into the economy, as population and economic activity expands; or when emergencies such as Katrina, or warfare require great expenditures. Under the reform only the U.S. government, not the private banking system would be allowed to create money.
“What we’re proposing is very similar to the ‘Chicago Plan’ which came out of University of Chicago economists in the 1930’s and was widely supported nationwide by the economics profession back then,” said Zarlenga.
Under the plan the government spends the new money into circulation on necessary infrastructure, including education. A presentation at the conference by the American Society of Civil Engineers pointed out the deteriorating condition of American infrastructure, which currently receives an overall grade of D, and is predicted to reach D- soon.
Most of Katrina’s Damage on New Orleans Was Avoidable
“This method of introducing new money through infrastructure creation and repair would actually have stopped most of the damage and loss of life in New Orleans because the money would have been available to repair the levees, and they would have probably held” said Zarlenga.
“Under the present private control, money goes largely into speculative bubbles, including Wall Street games and real estate” he said, “Under societal control it would go much more to promoting the general welfare. Inflation is avoided because real material wealth has been created in the process, and catastrophic loss including loss of life is prevented.” – End of press release.
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Lawmakers have often believed they could ignore the big questions on how our money system is structured. Right from the Constitutional Convention delegates ignored societies monetary power and the excellent record of government issued money in building colonial infrastructure and giving us a nation.* They left the money power up for grabs when properly estimating it would have meant placing it in a fourth, monetary branch of government. History shows that the money power will be a fourth branch whether we recognize it as such or not. It’s not safe to leave so much power and privilege in private hands! It’s counter to our system of checks and balances. The developing crisis requires us to re-evaluate and focus on it now. That’s my suggestion. Lets fulfill our responsibility to get a real understanding of this problem and the solution.
As the late Congressman Wright Patman, Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency for over 16 years, said, “I have never yet had anyone who could, through the use of logic and reason, justify the Federal Government borrowing the use of its own money….I believe the time will come when people will demand that this be changed. I believe the time will come in this country when they will actually blame you and me and everyone else connected with the Congress for sitting idly by and permitting such an idiotic system to continue.”
*For a primer on monetary history and reform see The Lost Science of Money by Stephen Zarlenga.
This is very good and very well stated as well. It seems that a lot of us are agreeing on the same thing here, and if the majority of the population was actually aware of what was being done to them and the cause of their current, past, and future problems, they would agree as well, its simple common sense. Again, the problem is how to we make thing happen and motivate them to do something about it. The banks have the money and power to promote their own agenda and continue to fool them into participating in their scam, so how to we get organized to overcome this. I’m fishing for ideas here. I can’t make this happen myself, and neither can you, but if somehow enough of us could get organized toward the same objective it might be remotely possible. The internet is the single and only thing in this world that they do not yet control, and everyone’s on it, so it might be a possible avenue to use toward this end.
I thank Ron Paul for publicly questioning the money system and the Federal Reserve. Only other pol that has the guts is Dennis Kucinich. Ron Paul is wrong on the gold question however.
http://www.monetary.org is much better guide.
Cheers!
Not really.
Why not let the people decide what they want to use as the medium of exchange? Let there be competition in money. Competition free of coercion and fraud and we’ll see what the market decides.
FREE. Everyone likes free. No money needed. No control over the money supply because there is NO money. There is no value in the money anyway. Print. Print. Print…devalued. Perfect timing to make everything we need free. We have to change within ourselves to make it a go, but it’s possible, anything is. No better reason than the elite have stollen most of it thinking it holds value. They can keep the worthless sheets of paper. They lose power over everything and everyone. Money is the one thing that causes us to think that someone is powerful, has control, and it perpetuates class distinction like elite, slave, serfdom. Without money, there is no such thing. We are just human to human, helping each other and making sure we each and all have what we need for a life of abundance and wellness. There is no killing for money, no corruption driving theft of money, none. It’s pretty wild that we even let people die for the lack of these worthless sheets of paper or electronic blips. We have let money rule our lives long enough. When God/Love rules our lives instead, we have a different kind of world of enjoyment and happiness. The conversations surround every project or issue never gets reduced to talking about money. Notice how this always happens. Look at all the issues created surrounding money instead of just launching worthwhile and meaningful projects. All we need is the creativity and the willingness to contribute…instead of money. That’s operating from the heart instead of a drained bank account or credit card. Which do you prefer?
“Perfect timing to make everything we need free.”
And how do we do this?
“We are just human to human, helping each other and making sure we each and all have what we need for a life of abundance and wellness. There is no killing for money, no corruption driving theft of money, none.”
Human nature being what it is, I don’t see how this could possibly happen. If people are free to trade with each other, money will eventually emerge. That’s a good thing.
Very well said Christine, and it seems that the majority of us on this site so far are in agreement as well. In regards to your second last sentence, i’ll take the former over the latter, and my hope is that all of us can some way, some how, replace the power with freedom and make it so.
In fact, the only possible reason i can think of for anyone not to be in full agreement with this, is that they would be one of the culprits in some way making the profits from and establishing power from the drained bank and credit card accounts, as these cannot possibly be of any benefit to anyone but them. If we can get free of them and eliminate their power, then the accounts will be full and any and all worthwhile and meaningful projects possible as well.
Well it doesn’t matter what the majority thinks but you should look at the older comments (there’s over 400 of them). While there certainly is a “we just need a better fiat system” contingent posting recently, that is not the sentiment shared by most of the people who have posted. Most people on this site tend to be hard money advocates and adherents of the Austrian School of Economics. This is a Ron Paul site after all.
http://www.monetary.org/briefusmonetaryhistory.htm
Real cause of the American Revolution was England trying to take the money power away from the Colonies. The Bank of England was a private bank, and totally criminal in its activites.
http://www.monetary.org/briefusmonetaryhistory.htm
JuggerGrimrod
I thank Dr. Paul for inspiring me to read about money, however he is just wrong on gold. Unfortunately the Austrians/Libertarians are just simply wrong on the nature of money.
http://www.monetary.org
American Monetary Institute
are much better guides to the pathway to monetary reform.
Read “The Lost Science of Money” by Stephen Zarlenga.
Cheers!
JuggerGrimrod
I have to agree with this as well, although a Gold based currency would be preferable to the Banks having free reign over the creation of money and credit for the purpose of enslaving our population, a gold based currency would once again leave the door open for private interests in the possession of the most gold to use the it to establish power for themselves just as the banks have used their control of our currency to do so as well, and the two would probably end up being one and the same.
Freedom and power can’t exist in the same space, and one will always exist at the expense of the other. Until we eliminate all power in America, the best we can hope for is an illusion of freedom, which at this point will be very short lived.
Wealth should be established by the capacity to accomplish useful and productive things for the benefit of our population, and should only be limited by our capacity to accomplish useful and productive things as well. Until it is created by all of us collectively who are capable of doing those things, and administered by the population and for the benefit of the population, it can only buy power at the expense of our freedom. For myself, i have no need to establish power over anyone as i’m perfectly capable of doing and producing things that people need and will benefit from, and which they will want to buy from me willingly. If i did not do this, i would not be able to justify my own existence. The only ones in need of power are the ones who don’t do this, and can only exist by attempting to enslave those of us that do, which they have already done with great success.
Read “I, Pencil” and see if you by yourself can produce what “people need and will benefit from”. Your guys’ posts have a statist air about them. It’s a shame. The only way to properly figure out what is “useful” and “productive” is through the market. The people (market) through their free decisions discover what is useful and productive. It’s a filtering process.
Lol well currently, America’s banks have removed the money from the system that people need in order to have the freedom to make decisions and discover what is useful and productive. In order to do so they must have the money to purchase these things, so the only shame is that this means has been removed from them at this point.
Since the Banks will not put it back, and have always taken out more than they put in, we need to figure out a way to get rid of them, put it back ourselves, and reverse the process to generate economic expansion instead of contraction. Its a simple thing, and since the national currency is a public asset, the only people who have any business producing and controlling it are the people themselves, i.e the state. Yes, i do have a very statist attitude toward the production of currency and credit, as this is the single and most important thing we need the state to do. If they did this one simple thing, they wouldn’t need to do much else as people would be able to take care of the rest on their own.
If you don’t agree with the state producing currency and credit for the benefit of the population, then simply look at the face of a dollar bill, what does it say, does it say “United States of America”, or does it say the name of a bank ? Now who should own it, produce it, control it and benefit from it, the American population or America’s banks ?
Well if you’re a statist regarding currency and credit, then I doubt I will be able to bring you to free-market thinking. But I must ask, why should the people have total social liberty (free to do with their bodies as they please, enjoy drugs if they choose, etc.) but absolutely no economic liberty (state control/issuance of money)? We currently have state control of currency and credit (the Federal Reserve). How’s that working for the people? Yes, the banks with their fractional reserve system are quite damaging but the State/Fed and their fiat currency/unchecked credit expansion is the source of our woes. We are once again discovering the consequences of state issued fiat currency. Over time, government power expands at the expense of the people. And the politically well connected are enriched at the expense of the simple man/woman on the street.
“the only people who have any business producing and controlling it are the people themselves, i.e the state.”
The State is not the people. It is the enemy of the people. Here you go…http://mises.org/books/Our_Enemy_The_State_Nock.pdf
Well you are absolutely right, you will never bring me to your concept of “free market thinking” as the current concept of this buys power for the private interests in control of the so called “free market” systems mediums of exchange. It is absolutely impossible for power and freedom to exist within the same space, as one must always exist at the expense of the other, so there is no possible way that a so called “free market” system, which tolerates any form of power, can actually be free. It’s like dropping a stone and expecting it to fly, it simply isn’t going to happen, regardless of whether or not your willing to acknowledge the laws of gravity.
I do agree that under the current conditions, the state is the enemy of the people. There can be absolutely no question of this as well, as its a simple statement of fact. The question that one needs to ask though is why ?. From what i can see, the single and only reason that the state is the enemy of the people, is that it has substantially fallen under the control of private interests who’s only objective is to establish further power for themselves which can only come at the expense of our freedom and prosperity. You eliminate these interests, and their control over the state and there is no further reason for the state to be our enemy.
All you have to do is look at the social democracies in this world in order to see this for yourself. Each and every one of them is owned lock stock and barrel by their banks, and their banks dictate who runs for the leader of each of the major political parties, dictate the socialist policies of the state in order to remove any threat that might possibly exist to their continued existence. They win either way, and it doesn’t matter how the people vote as the end result will be the same. Fortunately in this country, we have 3 governing bodies through whom most legislation has to pass, instead of the leader or a party becoming god once elected with a majority, and this is the single and only thing which has slowed this inevitable progress until now.
Further to this, i don’t think there are very many on here who would actually believe your statement that the Federal Reserve Board constitutes state control of the issuance of money, but rather that it constitutes state control in collusion with the banks. I think many of us have also been following Dr. Paul’s efforts to audit and ultimately eliminate the Federal Reserve, and although it would not be a complete solution to our problems, it would certainly be a major step in the right direction. Once again, and even though his stated economic beliefs differ from my own, he has proven himself to be one of the greatest friends of liberty that we have in this country. What reason would there be for the state to audit the Federal Reserve if the Federal Reserve were wholly and exclusively controlled by the state ?
In contrast to this, all you have to do is look at the 13 colonies from which America came, and to the time when the colonial governments had control of the production of the countries means of exchange. The currency was produced for the benefit of the people by their representatives, “the state”. The currency had no intrinsic value, it was not produced for profit or power, and was simply a means of exchange produced by the state on behalf of the population in order to facilitate their trade with each other. Currency was produced in accordance with what the population was able to produce and not injected and removed from the economy in response to the current market fluctuations as it is today. The result was the most stable economic system that the world has ever seen, and the most prosperous per capita population in the world at the time, and many times that of the mother country. At this time both the state and the people were each others mutual beneficiaries, and it was only King George’s outlawing of the colonial script and forced use of the British Pound, controlled by the British banks, that destroyed their prosperity and caused the state to become the “enemy of the people”.
In any system which is willing to apply even the smallest amount of reason and common sense, it should be obvious that anything that the entire population needs for their mutual benefit should be a public commodity and should be exclusively produced and controlled by the public. Alternately, the public also has absolutely no business producing or controlling anything that the entire population does not use as well. If we had been relying on private interests in order to contract the creation of, and maintain our interstate freeway system, we wouldn’t be able to travel very far, and if we could, then the tolls would be such that no one could afford to, nor will we do so economically until the public takes full and exclusive control of our economic system. In fact now were traveling backwards at an extremely alarming pace.
From what i can see here, the only possible way to experience any form of economic liberty is for the people themselves to manage the economy and its means of exchange for their mutual benefit. Short of this economic liberty is impossible, with the term “free market” being simply a buzz word in order to fool those unwilling to think about it into thinking they have it.
The evidence seems to speaks for itself.
Again, you’re constantly switching the goal posts. You want the monetary power to be in the hands of the people AND the government. That simply can’t happen. It is an either or situation. Either the people have it or the government has it. Pick one and stick with it.
You also (unwittingly I’m sure) perform this rhetorical trick when talking about the Government and the banks. First you state that the Government is controlled by the banks. Then you turn around and say they are working in collusion. Again, this is an either or situation. Either one group is controlling the other or they are working together for mutual benefit. Pick one ans stick with it.
Also, read the other comments in this thread and on this site in general. I realize you, christine (not really), Grimrod, stojan nenadovic, and maybe a couple others support this “non-credit money” idea of Brown and Zarlenga. However, take a closer look around the site. Most here are hard money advocates and followers of the Austrian School (like Ron Paul).
Moving on. The 13 colonies did not all produce colonial script with the same amount of success. Some colonies produced inflation and the associated price instabilities. Yes, under Ben Franklin’s guidance, Pennsylvania’s colonial script system worked quite well. But men like Ben Franklin are quite rare (the scrip was also backed by land). Under a less scrupulous man/woman, such a system is doomed to bring chaos. For every Ben Franklin determined to keep a paper system as good as gold, there are a thousand Nathan Rothschilds fixed to abuse it. Commodity/Sound money stands in the way of men like Rothschild. Sound money takes the honesty and integrity of a man like Ben Franklin and integrates them into the system. But, again, I’d be just fine letting economic liberty reign and seeing what the people (through their free actions/exchanges) decide to use as money. Sadly, it seems you and the others aren’t willing to grant the people this freedom.
Yes, this does require further explanation. In this case i think collusion and control do amount to the came thing. The government and banks manipulate the currency in collusion with each other because the politicians colluding with the banks to do it have been bought and paid for by the banks and are under their control. Therefore working in collusion with the banks to their mutual benefit against the interests of the population, and also under their control.
For the record, i absolutely love your idea of allowing people to use any form of currency they choose, and to use it in competition with any established form of national currency as well, so in terms of denying them that freedom i would have no wish to do so, nor would most of the others posting on this topic i expect.
The problem is preventing private interests (the banks) from gaining control of those currencies, whatever they may be and incrementally bleeding them out of the system until there is nothing left for the population. As per some of my earlier posts, the danger and consequences of this is just as great, and possibly even greater with hard currencies than it is with the current fiat / credit system, as then they cant create anything to put back for what they take out, so it could happen even faster.
Again the root problem is not the type of currency we use, but the concept of allowing private interests to lend it for interest. In order for an economy to remain viable and hopefully grow, its means of exchange must be kept in circulation and its amount increased (or increased in value per a hard currency system) according to the growth of the economy. If it is going to be bled off incrementally in interest, however slowly, the economy must eventually collapse, the outcome can be nothing else. If $ 20.00 remains in circulation it will generate prosperity every time it changes hands, as whatever, whoever, buys with it will have to be produced, and there will be another useful thing in existence which can benefit someone. Once it is removed, so are the many thousands of dollars in production and beneficial goods that it would continue to produce as it changes hands. I simply can’t see how an economy can survive with any form of interest, except where it would be used as a substitution for taxes and thus put back into circulation for the people to continue to use.
Dear Mr. David, the non-credit money is not gold, is not silver, is not social credit. Non-credit money is the necessary additional quantity of money in circulation (dM) as percentage (k) of existing quantity of money in circulation (M). dM = kM ;
k = (supply – demand)/demand ;
If non-credit money is emitted according to the cited formula, inflation cannot exist. Also, taxes are annulled for the amount of non-credit money. The consumers pay less and producers get more than today, in the order of credit money. All get the gift from non-credit money. We must introduce both national and world order of non-credit money. China and Australia use non-credit money.
Exactly what i’m thinking here, this is sounding a lot like what Douglas proposed as well, your just proposing a different method of accomplishing this, and many would work. All we need is for the population to have enough to purchase the full extent of what we can produce, the medium of exchange or what were going to call it doesn’t matter. Any system which would put the purchasing power into the hands of the people to develop our business and industry to its maximum would be great, and its exactly the people who would receive the benefits from that production as well.
Thanks.
Well, i think what we need to understand here, is that money, whether gold, silver or paper is not real. It is a simple means of exchange which is attributed value and allows a diverse range of people to trade with each other for their mutual benefit. What is also being forgotten here, is that America’s first money had no intrinsic value, was not even an officially sanctioned form or currency, and was simply script, printed by the colonial governments at the time, and distributed among and for the benefit of the people in order to allow them to trade with each other. The money was free, and produced on behalf of and by the people themselves for their mutual benefit. The end result of this was that the 13 colonies had the highest standard of living of any place in the world, and many times that of the mother country, for the simple reason that enough was put into circulation to pay for everything that the people could produce. Then when the British Banks found out about this, they got King George to outlaw the colonial script, and replace it with the British Pound, and this changed to 75 % unemployment overnight. This is something they’ve managed to keep out of most of the common history books, but anyone even vaguely familiar with American history is aware of this, and it was this, and not a tax on tea which was the primary cause of the American Revolution as well.
To break this down into simple terms, today’s economy in America and the rest of the world exists to serve the interests of the banks. They have been given control of our currency and credit by corrupt politicians from both major parties, have managed to assassinate the two presidents we have had who would have taken away their power to control same (no proof of this that would stand up in court obviously, but its a simple thing to figure out who stood to gain from their assassinations). Then through party manipulation and media control, prevented Dr. Paul, the only one who was not owing his political career to them from having any chance at all in the past presidential election, even though he was coming in with more than twice the popular support of any of the other candidates in the initial straw poles, and would have won the presidential election with a landslide if his party had given him a chance to run, as he was what the people wanted instead of the bad choices they were given.
Since the banks exist as parasites, and contribute absolutely nothing of any tangible value to any of us, the only way they can maintain their existence is by establishing political power which must eventually lead to socialism as they must remove any freedom or means that the people might have to get rid of them, before they figure out that they would be better off without them and do so. The end result of our current economic system can accomplish nothing but this if its allowed to continue.
Since the greatest part of our national budget is going toward paying interest on the deficit, and since most people in this country are by now working 3 weeks out of each month in order to pay interest on their mortgages and other credit, we have already become virtual slaves to them and once they remove our political freedom as well there will be absolutely nothing left. As an immigrant to this country, I’ve seen this happen already where i came from and if something isn’t done it will happen here, and soon. When it does, America will cease to exist and become like all the other miserable places in the world, where the purpose of the individual is to serve the state (hence the banks), instead of the state existing (at least in theory) to serve the individuals comprising it.
Now, if you take the combined annual profits of America’s Banks, as compared to the national budget, and you figure in the fact that most of the people in this country who are actually producing something and contributing to the benefit and well being of their fellow citizens are having 60 – 80 % of what they produce consumed by the banks in interest, it should become obvious that without them the American people as a whole could experience prosperity far greater than any of their wildest imaginations. Further to this, simply regulating the currency in a sensible and beneficial manner in order to make sure there was always enough of it to pay for what we could produce would increase our production capacity to many times what is is today with what we already have, and produce an exponential growth in that production capacity in the years to come. Again the only possible outcome of this, is the average person would have many times more then they have today with the same amount of effort going into earning it, as we would be working to feed ourselves and not the interests of the parasites who are bleeding off the vast majority of what were producing now. I expect we would also be able to exist without taxes as well as the state should have more than enough means to finance its operations simply by putting the currency into circulation required to make up for the increase in our production capacity that having enough would generate on a year to year basis.
One of the great problems we have is that the vast majority of the population is absolutely terrified of having to think for themselves and they want to be told what to do. As a result they are simply too damn stupid and ignorant to realize whats being done to them or what they could have were this not the case. Since the banks have the money which they have stolen from us, and consequently the power to control our political system and media, and tell them what to think and do they blindly follow and obey, as sheep being led to their own slaughter.
This is also a problem which will not be solved through our democratic process, as in the case of both Lincoln and Kennedy the banks will simply assassinate any president or politician we elect who would pose a threat to their power and the continued enslavement of the American population. If this is going to happen, it will take a second American Revolution as the banks and their control of our political system will have to be removed by the people by force of arms, and the threat to our freedom and prosperity will not cease to exist until each and every one of the individuals in charge of our banking system has been executed and their 100 % assets seized by the population as well.
The single and only thing that gives me any hope for America at this point, is that the people seem to be currently preparing for exactly that. Since the last Presidential election they have been buying up every firearm and round of ammunition as fast as it can be produced, before the current government can pass laws eliminating their ability to do so. In view of this, i do expect that the banks will engineer some limited relief to the current economic crisis which they also engineered in an attempt to grab more power for themselves, as both they and the Obama administration are living in absolute terror of the American population at this point, and i expect the people will once again be foolish enough to settle for what they give them instead of taking what should be rightfully theirs. The simple fact is though that the arms and ammunition will be in place, and since they inevitably must try to remove any and all political freedom in order to enforce the continued denial of our economic freedom, this does increase our chances of success against them later on as well. The problem will be that if it does come to the people going to war to defend their political freedom, will enough of them realize the source of the threat they are defending against and do something about that to prevent it from becoming a threat again ?. If they come to realize that it’s not so much Bush or Obama, but the people who put them in power and dictate their actions that are the threat then they will have a chance.
I will propose an alternative to this though, and it would be guaranteed to work, the problem is that there will never be enough people wise enough to co-operate with each other for their own benefit to do this. As Janice proposed in her reply here, we claim our own bailout. If each and every person in America would stop making their mortage and credit card payments all at once, and then be prepared to defend their homes if the banks came to foreclose (and they simply can’t foreclose on every home in America), then the entire banking system would collapse overnight and America would be free. This would force our Governments into taking control of our currency and producing currency and credit for the benefit of the people instead as a means to power for the banks, resulting in the prosperity i spoke of earlier and eliminating once and for all the threat to our constitution and political freedoms as well. While we are sending our military to fight foreign enemies oceans away, the American people are making monthly payments to those who will truly destroy us. Making payments to a bank can be nothing less than an Act of Treason against the United States of America, as they are the true enemies of our freedom, our country and our Constitution, and what you are paying interest on is something they have stolen from you in the first place.
It is certainly worth examining the Social Credit philosophies of C. H. Douglas (look him up on the internet). Although i think Douglas philosophy may be more complicated than it needs to be, Douglas was an engineer, and not a banker or economist, and if some variation of his economic system could be adopted and made to work, the result would be limitless prosperity for our entire population and the most productive, and truly free, enterprise system that we could possibly imagine. Why tie our prosperity to gold or silver that are in short supply when we could create unlimited wealth with our capacity to produce ?. The only limitation on our prosperity as a society is what America can produce for that society’s benefit, and given the money to pay for it, our business and industry is capable of producing an abundance beyond our wildest imaginations.
Thanks; Dave
Has anyone defaulted on paying back their credit card debt??????
Its the only way will get our Bail-out!
And if enough of us do it….none of will be consumers again……the only way we get revenge……….
That’s why I keep bringing up the “utopian” idea of a humanitarian-based socieity. The scriptures say there will be a day when we can neither buy nor sell. Could this mean that we are indeed evolving towards the humanitarian-based society? Jesus overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the temple once….perhaps this is what 2012 or sooner will bring.
Please read the Lost Science of Money by Stephen Zarlenga. It is a great book on “money”
http://www.monetary.org/
Thanks for the site Jugger and LongshotLouie..I emailed it to everyone I know including my states Senators and all the Newscasters who care….The pamphlet pretty much explains it …thanks a Trillion or two….! LOL that is the answer!
—————————————————————-
http://www.monetary.org/amacolorpamphlet.pdf
The American Monetary Act is ready for the legislative process
(First introduced at the Eastern Economic Association 2006 Conference)
This above pamphlet is online , 17 pages of PDF …this guy is a genius….no wonder Many Senators and Congressman are asking the Private Federal Bank to “show us where the money went”!
We need to abolish the Federal Reserve as soon as we can and as soon as we can get the 11 Trillion dollars back into the hands of our Federal Government again…Please read this if you can..I wish we all would have read it when it came out in 2006! Jan Excerpts from the book and its chapters are on the site…I don’t think I would like to read that or pay the price to read it…the pamphlet does the job for me…but I would advise all of congress to read it….and the President.
————————————————————————————
http://www.monetary.org/lostscienceofmoney.html
Introducing Monetary Thought to Students of All Ages:
THE LOST SCIENCE OF MONEY book is available immediately (Please ignore Amazon bookseller’s false statement that it’s out of print!)
Proposed Legislation which resolves the current crisis:
The American Monetary Act is ready for the legislative process
(First introduced at the Eastern Economic Association 2006 Conference)
The AMI 2009 Monetary Reform Conference at
Roosevelt University, in Chicago, Sept. 24-27, 2009
2009 Conference Schedule – Topics, Speakers & Bios
Last year’s 2008 Conference Schedule
NEWS!!!: latest AMI Bulletin (past bulletins below)
American Money Scene – Bulletin #5, 8/11/09 Why Proposals for States to go into the banking business are distractions not solutions.
Zarlenga’s speech at the U.S. Treasury (12/4/03)
titled: The Solution to the States Fiscal Crisis
I am almost done reading the book, it is pretty amazing. Maybe the definitive book on money. The website http://www.monetary.org is pretty good too. Cheers.
JuggerGrimrod99
Bank President Admitted that All Credit Is Created Out of Thin Air With the Flick of a Pen Upon the Bank’s Books
http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/CreditRiver/1968-12-09judgmentanddecree.pdf
http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/CreditRiver/CreditRiver.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/09/if-credit-is-not-created-out-of-excess.html
Dr. Deflation, Martin Weiss, has reversed course. He now thinks price inflation lies ahead.
Dr. Weiss in no way waffles. He calls his article “From Deflation to Inflation.”
“Step by step, with little fanfare and great complacency, we are witnessing a fundamental, global shift that’s rapidly transforming the investment scene:
The forces of deflation are temporarily receding; and in the meantime, the forces of inflation threaten to roar back with a vengeance.
They are everywhere. They could be overwhelming. They must NOT be ignored.”
This leaves deflationists “Mish” Shedlock, Rick Ackerman, and Robert Prechter with one fewer member in the always tiny deflationist hard money camp.
(The Keynesians always worry about deflation, never about inflation.)
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/from-deflation-to-inflation-35526
You are not understanding a word that I am saying. In the past whenever there was capital requirements, if you were to up the money supply, banks were able lend more, putting more money into the economy.
Because we haven’t had capital requirements, banks could just lend all the money they wanted. They could lend money they didn’t have. “credit out of thin air.”
Just because the fed upped the money supply doesn’t mean that banks will lend more. Banks were already lending at their max capacity inflating the dollar as much as possible with “credit out of thin air.”
Now they are going to have stricter capital requirements where they can’t just inflate the dollar by putting money into the economy. They can only put in so much money with capital requirements. It’s basically limiting the money supply, just as a gold standard would have done.
The reason why the fed had to give them capital is because they practically had none. Our money gets spent overseas, 8 trillion dollar trade deficit.. That’s why we eliminated capital requirements in the first place.
It’s too little, too late.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ukJiBZ8_4k&feature=player_embedded
Haha omg, what is this VR? Its a bunch of nonsense that anyone could conspire.
Check out this mike wallace interview. I just read the book they are talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGaYXahbcL4
sean says:
September 23, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Haha omg, what is this VR?
———-
This denotes something that is present or near in place or time, or something just mentioned, or that is just about to be mentioned?
Are you asking me a question?
Your video has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I am against income taxes and welfare. Please be more relevant with your posts.
I don’t need some crazy lady to tell me about human sacrifices. I bet you don’t even pay income taxes. You know nothing about sacrifice.
Don’t complain about how deep the ocean is until you ‘re stranded out in the middle of it.
Please be more understandable. Are you asking me a question? Your reply had nothing to do with my original post. Have you confused yourself?
Yes, my video related, it was also a Mike Wallace video. i was making fun of your anne frank and showing you a real icon.
At least I don’t go around to your posts and reply with something totally off topic and off hand. What if I went to your posts and started talking about NASA? Wouldn’t that be a little odd?
Wow, you really are a whiney little bitch huh?
Anne Frank? WTF? May be time to up your dosage.
hahahahahaha, VR, sometimes it’s just hard to hold back.
Homeowners who ’strategically default’ on loans a growing problem
http://www.latimes.com/classified/realestate/news/la-fi-harney20-2009sep20,0,2560658.story
Dollar Slumps to Lowest Level in Almost a Year
The dollar fell against most major currencies and is at the same level as it was before it became a safe haven for investors who became jittery after Lehman Bros. collapsed. The dollar is “falling victim to a kind of double whammy” that was the result of the government’s efforts to pump more dollars into the economy. Investors seem to be convinced that the efforts had the desired effect and the global economy will soon get out of recession, so they’re willing to take on more risk. When combined with the high supply of dollars and low interest rates, that has made the dollar quite unattractive. Instead of dollar-based securities, investors are snapping up gold and other commodities.
Read original story in The Wall Street Journal | Wednesday, 9 Sep 2009
Let’s all protest in our own towns with banners in front of our banks!
“Give us loans at no more than 5% interest!”
“Free our Money into the hands of the people!”
“Is our money backed by Gold?”
“March in front of Wall Street to give the people back their investments!”
March in Washington, at Benacke’s office, at the White House!
Why is everyone so shy or so stymied?
We did over the Vietnam war…..
The African Americans marched over racial rights……
Of course many were killed, maced, beaten with their sticks and imprisoned! But,the war ended, the blacks got their rights……
So it must work…I don’t think we can depend on our congressman they are all so much into the good ole boy mode they can’t see the real issues or won’t listen to us …they ignore us….as the media is doing too…
We can’t even get Ron Paul to help us organize and protest…
I wonder if we could somehow start our own site and get it organized to begin the protesting ………LOL I”m game!
I wonder if we did a “Whistleblower” thingy and reported them to the Inspector General or the FBI……if they would go after the Feds and Treasury dept. then…If they have done a Ponzi scheme on us they would have to wouldn’t they?
Fireside Chat on the New Deal
Franklin D. Roosevelt
May 7, 1933
On a Sunday night a week after my Inauguration I used the radio to tell you about the banking crisis and the measures we were taking to meet it. I think that in that way I made clear to the country various facts that might otherwise have been misunderstood and in general provided a means of understanding which did much to restore confidence.
Tonight, eight weeks later, I come f