Imagine: Armed Chinese Troops in Texas

Download the column as an MP3 file here (3:13 minutes).


by Ron Paul

Imagine for a moment that somewhere in the middle of Texas there was a large foreign military base, say Chinese or Russian. Imagine that thousands of armed foreign troops were constantly patrolling American streets in military vehicles. Imagine they were here under the auspices of “keeping us safe” or “promoting democracy” or “protecting their strategic interests.”

Imagine that they operated outside of US law, and that the Constitution did not apply to them. Imagine that every now and then they made mistakes or acted on bad information and accidentally killed or terrorized innocent Americans, including women and children, most of the time with little to no repercussions or consequences. Imagine that they set up check points on our soil and routinely searched and ransacked entire neighborhoods of homes. Imagine if Americans were fearful of these foreign troops, and overwhelmingly thought America would be better off without their presence.

Imagine if some Americans were so angry about them being in Texas that they actually joined together to fight them off, in defense of our soil and sovereignty, because leadership in government refused or were unable to do so. Imagine that those Americans were labeled terrorists or insurgents for their defensive actions, and routinely killed, or captured and tortured by the foreign troops on our land. Imagine that the occupiers’ attitude was that if they just killed enough Americans, the resistance would stop, but instead, for every American killed, ten more would take up arms against them, resulting in perpetual bloodshed. Imagine if most of the citizens of the foreign land also wanted these troops to return home. Imagine if they elected a leader who promised to bring them home and put an end to this horror.

Imagine if that leader changed his mind once he took office.

The reality is that our military presence on foreign soil is as offensive to the people that live there as armed Chinese troops would be if they were stationed in Texas. We would not stand for it here, but we have had a globe straddling empire and a very intrusive foreign policy for decades that incites a lot of hatred and resentment towards us.

According to our own CIA, our meddling in the Middle East was the prime motivation for the horrific attacks on 9/11. But instead of re-evaluating our foreign policy, we have simply escalated it. We had a right to go after those responsible for 9/11, to be sure, but why do so many Americans feel as if we have a right to a military presence in some 160 countries when we wouldn’t stand for even one foreign base on our soil, for any reason? These are not embassies, mind you, these are military installations. The new administration is not materially changing anything about this. Shuffling troops around and playing with semantics does not accomplish the goals of the American people, who simply want our men and women to come home. 50,000 troops left behind in Iraq is not conducive to peace any more than 50,000 Russian soldiers would be in the United States.

Shutting down military bases and ceasing to deal with other nations with threats and violence is not isolationism. It is the opposite. Opening ourselves up to friendship, honest trade and diplomacy is the foreign policy of peace and prosperity. It is the only foreign policy that will not bankrupt us in short order, as our current actions most definitely will. I share the disappointment of the American people in the foreign policy rhetoric coming from the administration. The sad thing is, our foreign policy WILL change eventually, as Rome’s did, when all budgetary and monetary tricks to fund it are exhausted.


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  • chris

    Talk to the soldiers that are comming home. You will find out that opium is being produced and not inhibited. You will find out that technology is used to control access to information on the cable service and on the phone systems.(the same systems used against American citizens) You will find out about the same empty village being attacked over and over again for the news guys. You will find out that the majority of construction is being done on bases. You will find out that helocopters are more busy flying officers in and out of combat zones at the beginning and end of each month so they can get hazardous duty pay, than they are providing support. WHAT I mean about history is this, ask the questions-why are we there? not because of the reasons we were giving- Why are the native people in the region angry at America?- not because we’ve been good. Educate yourself. facts- Afganistan=pipeline and Iraq=pipeline. Its interesting how long the plans existed for an Afgan pipline, and that the pipelines and supplies were in Kuwait before are troops were even ready to invade. I suppose you think that we went into Kuwait because the soldiers were throwing babies into the streets. If you have any military experiance you would know that nothing is what it seems and the money is never truely accounted for. Its always about the money; even when we supported the Taliban. The Russian withdrawl was just a bonus. SEMPER FI P.S-Its general policy to drop support to those that support us while we occupy another country. I know what will happen to those that have in Iraq; the same thing that always happens. Look- history again. 🙂

    • snom

      You mentioned opium.

      After discovering that FDR’s grandpappy, Warren Delano II made a fortune running drugs in the Orient on clipper ships, and also sold opium derivatives to the Army during the War against Southern Independence, I’ve been looking into the issue.

      The role of opium was amazingly strong in the war in the Pacific.

      To a large extent, the war was initiated over who would control the opium market in China. It snowballed from there.

  • chris

    History repeats itself! If you really want to know what and why our government does things find the money. An opinion is great if there is an education behind it; if not, you spread ignorance. It is not anti-american to question. The p-act is a violation of the 1st amendment! Its time to snap out of it. Dr paul is a real patriot of the american people, amongst a government that has become self-serving. I hope that we are lucky enough to have more like him in congress and the senate.

    • Matt Lewis

      History certainly does repeat itself, Chris, and certainly money is a large motivating factor in any decision made by our government, as with any other government in the history of the world trying to protect it’s own interests. I’m not saying that questioning is anti-American, in fact it is the basis of being an American! What I am saying is that it isn’t just a black and white issue. I’m saying that we are not oppressors that just blindly “occupy” (Mr. Paul’s words) countries. As a Republican, he should know, as should you, that with our liberal/socialist media, only the negatives get reported. What about all the good that is being done in Iraq? What about all the schools that are being set up? What about the first free elections that country has ever had? What about all the stories of our troops saving lives? Your right, an opinion is great if it is educated. So, get educated! That’s not a slam. Educate yourself about what’s really going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, not just what CNN (Communist News Network) tells you is happening.

      • snom

        “Your right, an opinion is great if it is educated. So, get educated!”

        Your 1:43 PM reply to me was quite amusing.

        What’s the problem with just answering my questions?

        In answering them, you may find yourself educated.

        PS Turn of the boob tube and forget the comic book versions of history.

      • sean

        matt, iraq had a way better education system before we attacked them. Iraq was actually doing okay before hand.

        • Matt

          Gee whiz Sean your right. Especially the Kurds. Wow, they were doing fabulous before we “attacked” Iraq. And all those people in the prisons for religious and or political reasons, they were doing great! And the hundreds of thousands of people that were killed over the years for disagreeing with Saddam, they had it coming. In fact, Saddam was just a down right great dude who was just terribly misunderstood.

          Oh brother…

          • sean

            If we didn’t tell Suddam and Iraq to attack Iran in the eighties, than Iraq wouldn’t have tried to take over Kuwait to redeem money from oil.

            “UNESCO reports that prior to the first Gulf War in 1991 Iraq had one of the best educational performances in the region. Primary school Gross Enrollment Rate was 100% and literacy levels were high. Since that time education has suffered as a result of war, sanctions, and instability.”

          • sean

            So what your saying.. If there was gang activity, or “terrorists” living in your neighborhood and our government bombed your area killing you, your family and your pets, that we should excuse them and be proud of what we did to your home?

          • snom

            Saddam was our buddy…before he wasn’t. Kinda like the Taliban and al Queda, and Ho Chi Minh, and Uncle Joe Stalin…

            I guess he must have been a real honey pot back in the ’80s.

            Yessir, we sure have some geniuses running our foreign policy!

  • Matt Lewis

    In response to Ron Paul’s “Imagine” article forwarded to me…

    Wow Mr. Paul, you make some interesting points, and your analogy about having Chinese or Russian occupation for the cause of spreading Communism compared to our occupation for the cause of spreading Democracy and freedom is compelling, if not completely ridiculous. But you conveniently leave out the reasons for our “occupations”. I am trying to “imagine” what your point is. Are you saying that we should NOT have ousted Saddam, one of the biggest murderous dictators of all time, who not only was a threat to his own people, but to the rest of the free world in his endless quest to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and then stayed to help create the frame work of democracy and freedom of speech and Religion in his place? Wow, that sounds terrible. How dare we try to fight for the oppressed peoples of the world! Are you saying that we SHOULDN’T have ousted the Taliban in Afghanistan, an oppressive, relentless rabble of Religious zealots who murder, rape, and pillage in the name of Allah, and who, through their hatred of Christians everywhere, help, aid, and abed known terrorists? Once again, wow, how dare we try to liberate the majority of peoples in Afghanistan who actually want to be free and not under the iron sandal of Religious dictators. How dare we “meddle” by spend BILLIONS of dollars giving food, medicine, and education to these people! I mean, who do we think we are, the greatest most noble nation in the world or something? Ha!

    I am also a proud member of the GOP sir, as well as a former Marine. Trust me, no one wants our troops home more than I do, and no one wants to give the finger to the world more than me, but SOMEONE has to do what is right. SOMEONE has to speak for those who can’t!

    Now Imagine this Mr. Paul…

    You think the world is a pile of steaming dung now? Imagine what it would look like WITHOUT the intervention of the United States of America, comrade.

    • Matt Lewis

      Wow, are you now insulting the fact that I served? Talk about rhetoric. That’s not very smart. Personal insults are always welcome, but you better get back to the grill, the burgers are burning, and the fries need to be taken out. Give me a break. At some point in time THE PEOPLE have to WANT to be free. WE left their country in complete chaos? Uhh I think it was the Soviet army that did that with a 10 year occupation. Take your own advice there, Mr flipper, and look at the entire picture, not just the parts YOU like.

    • snom


      As a Marine, you are familiar with twice CMH decorated Marine Major General Smedley Butler’s classic, “War is a Racket?” If not, “Google” it and read it till you get the message.

      He was a Republican and true conservative, too.

      You should also familiarize yourself with the “America First Commitee,” which was full of good Republicans and opposed America’s entry into the supposedly good war,WW2.

      America’s military involvement in the Middle East and Asia in general has nothing to do with protecting America or “liberating” other people. It has everything to do with trying to control the world.

      You may want to reasses your apparently smug, sophomoric ideas of heroism and gallantry.

      • Matt

        Yes, I am very familiar with MG Smedley Butler thank you. Uhh ok snorm. Judging by your response, you should know all about “sophomoric” ideas. So, by your recommendation that I familiarize myself with the “America First Commitee”, are you suggesting that America shouldn’t have entered WWII?? Please tell me your not, because that would probably be one of the most idiotic notions I have ever read. You may want to look up what heroism and gallantry actually mean before you recommend anyone reassess their ideas. I did not intend my post to Mr. Paul to turn into a mud slinging match, but so be it.

        • snom


          You say you are familiar with General Butler. Are you familiar with the message in “War is a Racket?”

          What was he trying to say?

          What did Charles Lingergh and Harry Elmer Barnes have to say about WW2?

          Back then, real men knew that it was the Democrat’s war, and they knew that FDR fought to make a large part of the world safe for “Uncle Joe” and the commies.

          • Matt

            Can you hear yourself? So, WWII was a “Democrat’s war”? You’ll get no argument from me that FDR was a left wing-nut liberal/socialist and one of our worst presidents, but It’s people like you that scare me and make me want to cling to my guns and my Bible. Let me guess, you also think that the government is hiding UFO’s in New Mexico, right? Do you wear a hat made out of tin foil so the government and/or aliens can’t read your thoughts? Do you do sweeps of your home for listening devices? C’mon snorm. I really think that there is an unpopulated island somewhere in the middle of the ocean with your name on it. Maybe you can apply for some of comrade Obama’s Stimulus money (which China appears to be financing) to buy the one way ticket. Do us all a favor…

          • sean

            FDR was one of our worst presidents?? He was the only president that has ran 3 terms.

          • snom

            FDR was one of the worst presidents. He was popular, but for a lover of freedom, he was flourescent pink if not altogether Red.

            His administration was full of commies.

            He couldn’t wait to go to bat for the imbecile glory hound, Churchill, and the bloodthirsty crackpot, “Uncle Joe” Stalin.

          • sean

            “Roosevelt has been consistently ranked as one of the greatest U.S. presidents in historical rankings, alongside Abraham Lincoln and George Washington.[103]

            A 1999 survey by C-SPAN found that by a wide margin academic historians consider Abraham Lincoln, George Washington and Roosevelt the three greatest presidents, consistent with other surveys.[104] Roosevelt is the sixth most admired person from the 20th century by US citizens, according to Gallup.[105]

            Both during and after his terms, critics of Roosevelt questioned not only his policies and positions, but also the consolidation of power that occurred because of his lengthy tenure as president, his service during two major crises, and his enormous popularity. The rapid expansion of government programs that occurred during Roosevelt’s term redefined the role of the government in the United States, and Roosevelt’s advocacy of government social programs was instrumental in redefining liberalism for coming generations.” -wiki

          • sean

            its all a matter of opinion in the roll of government, you can be for social contracts and social order, or you can be for a civil society with major flaws.. I believe in limited government but i don’t believe in suffering..

          • snom

            “make me want to cling to my guns” I’m in training to shoot from the hip, too!

            “and my Bible.” Careful now, there’s a lot of anti-Semitic stuff in there. In the Old Testament, God himself was always criticizing His people, and raining hellfire and damnation on them, too! In the New Testament Jesus himself took a stick to the money changers in the temple. St Paul had a few choice words about his people, too!

            “Let me guess, you also think that the government is hiding UFO’s in New Mexico, right?” I’m not sure if it’s NM. Could be someplace more exotic.

            “Do you wear a hat made out of tin foil so the government and/or aliens can’t read your thoughts?” That’s old hat by now. Nowadays it takes a Plutonium helmet. I still need to wrap my house in plastic to keep the Anthrax out, too. Thanks for reminding me.

            “Do you do sweeps of your home for listening devices?” No, I lost my hearing in Vietnam. I sweep it for dead cockroaches. Whattabout you?

            “C’mon snorm. I really think that there is an unpopulated island somewhere in the middle of the ocean with your name on it.” Yeah, I bought it 3 years ago. Nice place. You’re welcome to visit. Just don’t plan on staying.

            “Maybe you can apply for some of comrade Obama’s Stimulus money” Nope, I’m one of the chumps paying for it all. There’ll be nothing for me. Never was, never will be.

            “(which China appears to be financing) to buy the one way ticket.” The US was initially populated by people seeking opportunity. It’ll be partially depopulated the same way. I hear a lot of the entrepreneurial types have already left. My bags are always packed.
            On the other hand, I don’t have to abandon my country. It’s already gone, thanks to the groupies, commies, and other assorted collectivists.

            “Do us all a favor…” You sayin you want to come with me? Sorry, you’re on yer own.

          • snom

            “Roosevelt has been consistently ranked as one of the greatest U.S. presidents in historical rankings, alongside Abraham Lincoln and George Washington.[103]”

            These sorts of ratings are meaningless to me.

            He was popular, but so was Stalin, and a lot of others.

            All that proves is that the people doing the judging are clueless.

            Lincoln was one of the worst. He attacked his own people to retain a centralized government, and exterminated the last of the Plains Indians. No wonder Karl Karx congratulated him on his election. Nice, popular buffoon!

          • sean

            I guess you can call cspan and the gallup bad polls if you dont know anything about them. If you think you know more or better than historians than you must have gotten some sort of degree and studied history for a living. who do you think was our greatest president besides george washington and thomas jefferson?..

          • snom

            Polls are poo!

            When the polls sample morons, imbeciles and idiots, you get results that are stupid, more stupid and really stupid. GIGO.

            Of course FDR was popular.He was good at handing out other people’s money. Santa Claus is popular with kids, too! Just ask ’em. Good thing he’s not running for office, and not trying to buy votes.

            Jefferson was my favorite. No man is perfect, but he was the best. It’s been downhill since his time.

          • sean

            Lincoln freed the slaves. How can you be for freedom but against abolishing slavery??? that makes perfect sense. your great hero’s George washington and thomas jefferson both owned slaves.. You must be ignorant or confused to be for freedom and support slavery or those who owned slaves.

          • sean

            Your a real smart one! FDR didn’t raise income taxes until WWII, and that was to pay for the war. This just shows what you really know.

          • snom

            “Lincoln freed the slaves.”

            Do you know the meaning of the word,”pretext?”

            Of course Lincoln claimed he cared about the slaves, but the real issue was “Preserving the Union.”

            Chattel slavery was obsolete, anyway, and please explain why he went to war when he did. Slavery was illegal for decades before Lincoln, and the most other countries abolished slavery without war.

            So he supposedly freed the slaves? The system merely changed from chattel slavery to wage slavery. The income tax was first used to finance the war, making slaves of most of us.

            You need to quit getting your history from comic books.

          • Sean

            hahaha! your soooo smart about your history!.. Do you know what the battle of fort sumter was? It Was the ATTACK from the ConFeDerate BEFORE Lincoln was InAuGuRated that started the CIVIL war.. So your stupid claims don’t make sense. It was the confederates that started the civil war before lincoln was president.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA~

          • Sean

            the whole reason the confederates suceeded was because abraham lincoln campaigned against new slave states.. Licoln did fight to keep the union, but he didn’t start the fight.. And what he accompished, was one of the farthest reaching goals anyone could imagine. We fought hard in two wars prior to keep and build our country. They weren’t going to let some ideology seperate and tare apart such a huge investment.

          • snom

            Fort Sumter is located where? South Carolina was what! It was a state that seceded after Lincoln’s election.

            Fort Sumter was Confederate territory,and the North had no business there.

            If I remember correctly, the North had been resupplying it against NC’s wishes.

            “And what he accompished, was one of the farthest reaching goals anyone could imagine.” Yup, he killed off any hope of self determination. Just ask Johnny Reb and the Plains Indians. No wonder Karl Marx was a fan.

            BTW:The US income tax was used first by Lincoln to fund his war. One of the planks in the commie manifesto was a call for a heavy, progressive income tax. “Viva the Great Centralizer.”

          • Sean

            i would like to hear you tell 99% of the population that lincoln was a communist. We all have our own opinion. Some guys like fat women, i guess your one of those guys with a different opinion. Kudos… i’m more of a thomas hobbes type of person

          • snom

            “i would like to hear you tell 99% of the population that lincoln was a communist.”

            I never said Lincoln was a commie. I said that Marx, the commie, was a fan of Lincoln’s. And for obvious (not to you, of course) reasons.

            Lincoln was not a commie, but he had significant things in common with the commies.

            Lincoln had collectivist ideas and acted on them. You express faith in what the polls say,what the “authorities” say, and you are concerned with what the “99%” would say. That reveals a collectivist mind set. You have imbibed the collectivist kool-aid and keep regurgitating it. There is no hope.

            You defend Lincoln because you have a collectivist mentality. I have neither illusions for, nor aspirations of making you see the light, so this will be my last post to you. I have better things to do than waste my time with the ignorant and unreasoning.

            What are you doing on a Ron Paul site, anyway? You seem utterly clueless!

          • sean

            I see your point of view, i’m not ignorant or unreasoning.. I just think you are way too right wing, and i am more moderate. There have been many many wars with great leaders in charge. I don’t believe in policing the world, but I do believe that war was the main source of reasoning in the distant past. Licoln believed in the constitution and was offended when half the country tried to abandon it because they did not believe in freedom.. I’m glad we agree to disagree.

  • Ken Kershaw

    except that when rome fell ceaser did not have the weapons to destroy all life on the planet…

  • snom

    “The sad thing is, our foreign policy WILL change eventually, as Rome’s did, when all budgetary and monetary tricks to fund it are exhausted.”

    I understand the sentiment, but this is not a sad thing. It’s a great thing.

    The sooner the empire crumbles, the better. In this case, the end does justify the means!

  • Dfens

    The public airing of [Premier Wen Jiabao’s] concerns reflect how the relationship between China and the U.S. has been evolving under the pressure of the financial crisis. For years the U.S. has pressed China to change the way it runs its economy, such as by opening up its financial system. But in the last year China’s government has been increasingly vocal about what it sees as U.S. economic mismanagement. And as the U.S. government’s largest creditor, it has become more assertive in trying to ensure its interests receive a hearing. – Wall St. Journal

    The lender has the power over the borrower, no matter how much we want to pretend it’s the other way around. We are going to be loyal subjects of China very soon the way things are going.

    • snom

      My experience with Chinese people is that they are smart, industrious, resourceful, and frugal.

      I would rather be “ruled” by them than our current masters!

      • Ken Kershaw

        move to china

        • snom

          I’m considering it!

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  • Pete Klammer

    The tragedy of U.S. unilateral victory over the Soviet Union, is that we lost our collective empathy for victims of subjugation (including that perpetrated by ourselves), since we lost our power of imagination to identify with victimhood. When you say, “Imagine how it would feel to be invaded or occupied,” the average American now retorts, “I cannot imagine such a thing! Ha, that’s so ridiculous!” For that reason alone, I would welcome a counterbalancing superpower back onto our world stage.

  • Sean

    14th Amendment
    “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.”

    – The Constitution

    • Ken Kershaw

      Amendment I

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

      when one considers the fact that millions of dollars are being spent every month in iraq then add to that amount og money, the number of american soldiers killed and wounded you begin to formulate a small greivence against the government. once there move forward and continue that train of thought with just how much money is needed to treat the wounded both physically and mentally of this unwinnable war you take the next step in realizing that we the people have now got a legitimate greivence against the government.

      and of course once we the people have a legitiamite greivence against the goverenment it is our right to question regardless of the circumstance….see its right there in the closing line of the FIRST AMENDMENT…

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  • Dfens

    Fact is, Ron Paul is wrong on this one. How many hundreds of bases have we closed right here in the US, and how much money did that save us? Here’s a hint, we’re still spending at Cold War levels now. Of course, during the Cold War we had a 700 ship Navy with a couple of battleships sporting a full complement of 16″ guns that would make every man on that Chinese garbage scow crap themselves just to know it was in the same ocean. Today we can’t keep 300 ships afloat, and most of what we’ve built lately could be sunk with a .50 cal machine gun from 25 yards. We spend half our defense budget on contractors, and yet employ fewer American engineers and scientists than at any point in recent history. And, of course, we did such a damn fine job shooting down those 9/11 civilian transports travelling at the edge of the envelope speed of Mach 0.85. Nothing says we need to close more bases than a demonstrated inability to control our own airspace.

    Seems to me like we do need a new approach to foreign policy, but if we expect any major savings, we need to look at who is making record profits right here at home instead of looking abroad for places to cut. While I agree we need to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and today isn’t too soon for me, we’re not really going to be able to live and trade in peace unless we institute some serious procurement reform right here at home.

  • Dfens

    Obama is going to put an end to “don’t ask, don’t tell”. I’m sure that has nothing to do with what we owe the Chinese. They’re changing the theme song from “Anchors Away” to “In the Navy” by the Village People too. The new slogan is, “just like prison, but with more opportunites to tan.” It’s a great day to be an American.

  • Sean

    ..China’s tax revenue grows more than 20 percent annually, and has become an important source for China to accumulate wealth and increase national strength.

  • Dfens

    Yes, it’s always tougher to have too much manufacturing capability and not enough market than it is to have too much need and no manufacturing capability. Damn, they need us so. Same thing with resources, really. So let’s just wait. Let’s do nothing.

    This is me, doing nothing.

    • Sean

      you shouldn’t worry about the national debt… the national debt is issued with legal tender laws. THat means that it becomes american money and can only be spent in america.

      • Sean

        China depends on us because of tax revenues. THey have a ton of mouths to feed. It has ALOT more to do than just what is black and white.

      • Nate D

        You’re funny

      • Nate

        Since it becomes American money, it is a form of inflation. That is, an increase in the supply of money and credit. This eventually (actually continuously) causes a general rise in prices. You said you would start operating with the proper definition of inflation. You obviously still don’t understand what inflation is and how it distorts economic activity, loots and discourages savings, etc.

        Also, our debt/dollars cannot only be spent in America. Other countries accept our debt/dollars. While that is a good thing for us, we will see other countries become less and less willing to continue doing that in the coming days/months/years. If other countries decide to sell our debt or flood the US with the dollars they hold, we will see prices in this country dramatically increase. If you can figure out why this would occur, you’ve begun to understand inflation.

        • Sean

          What are you talking about? we replaced gold with our money. we have the most transparent open market in the world with the greatest benifits. We will always have investors in our country as inflation takes place across the world.. And if they were to take their money out and use it to buy goods from america, we could just tax more on the exports to value it higher without hurting the price of general goods.

      • Nate Y

        Since the debt is new money, it is a form of inflation. The evils of inflation have already been explained at length. You even said you would operate with the proper definition of inflation. It is obvious you still don’t have the most rudimentary understanding of the causes of inflation and its effects. You won’t fool anyone here with your muddled posts.

        • Sean

          what great harm does inflation cause? did you know that the price of general goods always rise at a small fraction a year because of inflation. It has been in control over the past 30 years or so,… so who knows what your blaabbbbbbbin about.

          • Sean


            It looks like inflation is under control. Your sounding like one of those Y2K or mayan 2012 phrophecy nut jobs.. THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!

          • Sean

            here’s another chart for you


            money supply has to increase as population increases…
            central bank borrows money when the m0 is low…

          • Nate Y

            Out of curiosity, what words/arguments of mine make me sound like a Y2K or 2012 nutjob? For the record (the ever impressive and important record), the world will be just fine. Anyway, let’s deal with your latest batch of nonsense…

            “money supply has to increase as population increases”

            This is a perfect example of your complete lack of economic understanding. The money supply does NOT have to increase as population increases. Nor does the money supply have to increase because of improvements in productivity. Why? BECAUSE PRICES ADJUST!!!! (as long as the market remains free)

            Also, you expect anyone here to be convinced by some chart? Simply because a Keynesian economist can make numbers and charts out of his economic nonsense, it doesn’t mean it’s and accurate representation of economic reality.

            Also, you don’t even realize you shoot yourself in the foot when you say “did you know that the price of general goods always rise at a small fraction a year because of inflation”. Yes, I’m quite aware that prices continuously increase as a result of inflation. I spent plenty of time explaining that to you and you’ve only now finally started to catch on (you still operate with the wrong definition at times). However, you still fail to realize the wealth redistributing effects (and the other evils) of inflation because you think that the money supply HAS to increase.

            Also, your google search link on inflation uses the wrong definition (rising prices) to justify your claim that “inflation is under control”. Your analysis suffers from misdefinitions (still) and myopia.

          • snom

            Did I read your comment correctly?

            Did you say inflation was under control?

            Please define what you mean by inflation. It has never been under control from my vantage point.

          • sean

            Actually snom, the prices of general goods have been quite stable. The things that are becoming more expensive are oil/steel/hospitals etc. which are all monopoly controlled. There is no competition and they are necessities, so companies can afford to drive up the price. When we talk about inflation and the cost of living, we talk about CPI, consumer price index, which has been relatively under control.. Here, look for yourself..


          • sean

            nate… so you think that we don’t need to grow money as the population grows?? You do know that the population doubles every 50 years don’t you?? That means that there would only be half as much money available to the public in 50 years if the money suppy didn’t grow. Do you know anything about economics other than what you read from some blog?

          • sean


          • sean

            Do you know the dangers in deflation?

          • Nate Y

            I already told you why the money supply doesn’t have to increase. Again, it is because in a free market PRICES ADJUST.

            Also, you think inflation has been under control? That is, you think the supply of money and credit hasn’t increased much? That is just simply untrue. As has been said quite constantly, the dollar today is worth 3-4 cents compared to the dollar the Fed inherited in 1913. That is a spectacular decrease in purchasing power and it came about in no small part because of the money/credit expansion inherent in central/fractional reserve banking.

  • Dfens

    U.S. officials said a protest was lodged with the Chinese government over the weekend and it was to be repeated to a Beijing military attache at a Pentagon meeting Monday.

    The USNS Impeccable sprayed one ship with water from fire hoses to force it away. Despite the force of the water, Chinese crew members stripped to their underwear and continued closing within 25 feet, the Defense Department said.

    “On March 8, 2009, five Chinese vessels shadowed and aggressively maneuvered in dangerously close proximity to USNS Impeccable, in an apparent coordinated effort to harass the U.S. ocean surveillance ship while it was conducting routine operations in international waters,” the Pentagon statement said.Fox News

    Don’t you love the way we bend over and take it like a man from China now with them owning $7 Trillion of our debt? I can’t wait until they start mining the Moon “for the benefit of humanity”. Our fearless leaders will have our Navy men on board those Chinese ships servicing each and every one of the crew just to make sure they’ll continue to sell us what we want.

    • Sean

      what are you talking about? china serves us and we pay them. China depends on us just as much as we depend on them. It is the united states who the rest of the world is fearing about going into protection, not china.